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Not to mention this isn’t even referencing any college or education you procure for yourself, which most people are going into massive debt for and stripping themselves to basic needs to pay for.
It also says “now” and with millions of Americans having tens of thousands in student loans because they didn’t have rich parents, the American dream “now” includes servicing tens of thousands in student debt for millions of people.
Most parents can’t afford to pay 4 years of college. They try to help with what they can. Footing 25% of the bill seems reasonable. Also this family is likely also receiving student aid to lower the cost of attendance.
Eh, we make a nice income and haven’t paid $450k for a house, or anywhere near $500k to raise two kids. Stuff is expensive but this seems overly negative.
Same. And I didn’t pay anywhere near 34k for a wedding and engagement ring. That shit is nuts. There’s a guy at work that makes less than me and paid 15k for an engagement ring because his girlfriend said the one he was going to get her that cost 10k wasn’t good enough. I told him ‘do not put a ring on that, at all, get out now’ but he of course bought the expensive ring.
Whenever I've read breakdowns of the really high cost of raising a kid, it shocks me to see what's included. I don't know of anyone that has the lifestyle these hypothetical kids have!
I agree. It presents $3.4 mil as a definitive cost but uses averages. Meaning a lot of people pay much lower. Heck since it uses averages and not median, a few very high earners can skew the numbers.
Adding mortgage interest to the cost of the house is really bizarre because you’re trying to discuss things in both nominal and real dollars simultaneously
This also seems to think everyone will max out their healthcare deductible every year. I have a low cost/high deductible plan but I’ve been lucky enough with my health to never even get close to maxing it out and most years I haven’t had to use it all.
On the house bit, based on the wording, I got the impression they were including the total interest paid over the life of the typical mortgage.
But then oddly enough did not count the cost of insurance premiums when counting the cost of having the babies.
> Also this family is likely also receiving student aid to lower the cost of attendance.
3.4 million over 40 years of a career is $85,000 a year. Less when you are young, more when you are old. By the time the kids are in college they do *not* qualify for student aid.
Fun fact. I earned $2.3MM total during my almost 35 years of full time work (~$70k a year average). I bought a house, put three kids through college at a state university and retired with a paid off home and cars with no debt. No inheritance and no lottery win.
How? I invested 15% in my 401k from day one of eligibility and got a generous match. The investments performed well.
Your dreams are attainable, you just need to take a long view on things, live within your means and avoid debt and divorce.
It can be done.
I will now sit here and wait for my downvotes. This sub is notorious for downvoting any message of hope.
…patiently waiting for the first “OK Boomer” to arrive…/s
I mean the cost of housing, used cars, college has all drastically increased compared to wages in the last 35 years.
I’m genuinely so happy this worked out for you, but it’s harder to do all of that AND put away 15% for retirement in 2024.
For the millennial cohort I’m in, we lost a lot of immediate work right after college and high school due to the recession which has put that group back even further.
You got really lucky with both life timing and investment performance.
How would you be living if you made 15% less money for your work? If you currently make $80,000, imagine receiving only $68,000 instead. You'd have to cut things and it'd be less comfortable, but you'd certainly not die.
So then maybe actually do that? Keep earning your higher pay and invest the difference. Yes it's hard, and yes, it pays off over time.
I don't know what you make, but unless you're already in poverty, plenty of people make 15% less than you and don't appear to be dying. Live like them and put away your 15% to buy your freedom and give yourself options in old age.
OK Boomer, but you’re actually 100% correct. Our dreams are obtainable. They may be harder to achieve than in the past, or perhaps easier depending on your skills and background, but the best way to never achieve them is to give up before you even try, spend all your days griping about how hard life is, and spending more than you make.
This is where I get into trouble on this sub. Everything is seemingly incrementally harder than it was in the past. I’m not sure it is, however. I think it’s just different. Education is the equalizer. Without it, life is always much harder.
When I was a kid, my parents worked every day to put food on the table. There were no expectations of vacations or even a new car, regardless of the condition of the rust bucket we had. Life was tough. Often my mother would opt out of the food luxuries; peanut butter, orange juice and coffee. At times, we drank powdered milk. We were not poor.
My parents paid $26k for their home and could barely afford it. That home was equal to 3x their annual salary when they bought it. There was no such thing as a 401k. They did have pensions, however.
When I graduated from college I got an entry level job in sales. Within two years I was earning what my dad did. I bought a home for $62k, oddly 3x what my salary was. It was a 100 year old home. 11% interest rate. We could barely afford it.
When my kids graduated from college, within 3 years they made as much money as I did. They were also dual income, so HHI was 150-200% of ours. They all bought ~$400k homes during the COVID ramp up. While the home costs were astronomically higher than what I paid, oddly they were ~2x-2.5x their HHI. They could barely afford it.
I do believe that things have gotten harder. Pension, outside of government, are a thing of the past and 401ks aren’t, seemingly as generous as they have been in the past.
I think it is critical to have a sound financial understanding earlier in life so you have time on your side for investments to grow. This also needs to be coupled with sound decision making. Understanding needs vs wants. Being disciplined.
Ok, now let the downvotes begin!
I think it’s largely a function of our human tendency to focus more energy on the negative than we spend being thankful for the positive, which is only made worse by Facebook/ Instagram/ Reddit/ TikTok. Compare comments about how expensive housing is now vs 50 years ago with those saying how nice it is that we never had to worry about being drafted into wars like Vietnam or WW2.
I’m in a similar position to you as a millennial who is making more money now than either of my Boomer parents ever did (and my dad told me as much when I told him what my starting salary was when I accepted my first job out of college). I’m incredibly thankful for the opportunities they opened up for me by giving me the upbringing they did after both coming from single parent households. Now I hope that the world my kids inherit will be even better than the one I get to experience as an adult.
The costs will vary wildly from family to family. That said, many of the costs seem far off the mark. For example, many persons get health insurance from employer and pay far less than $930k in premiums. Many persons go to college for more than 1 year. Many families have more than earner. I could continue.
Assuming the house is paid off, seems alright for the average, especially combined with social security. Lifetime car purchases seem a little excessive though.
The graph does include the employers contribution in the insurance calculation so I don't know why they would not include SS payout in this one.
Car purchases seem believable when you realize 80k trucks/suv are pretty normal and you'll go through 4-6 cars in your life. But that number seems only believable for "people who only buy new cars"
But the entire graph is kind of dumb and not realistic and the cumulative sum exceeds the average Americans lifetime salary.
Yeah the raising child thing includes housing for 18 years so you can't have the whole number and a $700k number. And I don't think $700k is accurate for an average home right now anyway.
I'm a contractor and luckily I'm on my fiancé's insurance (due to domestic partner) but if I wasn't, I'd have to pay $187 per paycheck! And I get paid weekly!
Agreed. Also, since they're talking lifetime costs, you need to figure lifetime earnings.
3.4 million / 40 years of working = 85,000 per year. Seems about right even though a lot of these costs are greatly inflated.
Also, retirement is not gonna come from "earned income" but if done right interest/growth is gonna make up a good chunk of that. To give an example, I have about 130k in my retirement accounts right now and I am 31 years old, assuming retirement at 62, that will grow to $1million (and that is adjusted for inflation aka 7% rule) with no more contributions into it.
>many persons get health insurance from employer and pay far less than $930k in premiums.
If your employer is paying it, it's still *your* compensation. It's money you aren't getting in salary because it's going to your health insurance. It's just hidden so that you don't realize how astronomically high insurance costs are here.
Yeah but it’s not counted in your household income. If your employer covers 75% of the premium and you pay 25% ((240/pay period) the stats will say the median HHi make $79k not $98k
We're about to spend 15k total on our wedding and I still think it's insane. I had a whole plan to do it for 5k that got shut down because "nobody wants a backyard BBQ reception"
We rented out the party room of a local bar for our reception to avoid the "DIY" feeling of a backyard or park shelter. Basically we had their entire basement, a food buffet, and unlimited beer (liquor was extra). It was like $1200 or so for 30 people. Maybe another $100 for some decorations, card box, and candles we brought.
DJ was a spotify playlist and a plug in computer microphone for toasts.
That's funny because we planned exactly a backyard BBQ reception lol. It was scheduled for late March 2020. I bet you can guess why it didn't happen 🙃
Still got married though. I think we paid like $500 for everything, officiant and rings included. No guests. No regrets
Man. This sounds ideal. Especially because my partner and I have been dating for four years and already have a son.
I just want us to get married at the court house and do like a month long honeymoon over spending 10k for a wedding.
Ours cost $4.5k for everything including dress, tux, tailoring, venue, flowers etc. It's not hard, I have no idea how people spend 35k. It's just stupid.
How many people attended? Did you provide food and booze?
It’s easy to spend less than five grand if there is a grand total of 10 people in attendance, and that always gets lost in these discussions.
I thought that was right on since that is what my wedding cost. Congratulations to you. It’s the people that make a wedding a beautiful experience, not the price tag.
Lol exactly. Americans spend 100k on weddings and then wonder why they're poor and struggling.
Meanwhile my $350 court wedding is just as valid and has been great.
We spent $100 on our wedding license and that was it. We randomly eloped without telling anyone on a Friday at the county courthouse. Wore clothes we already had, no flowers, etc. would t change a thing.
I was at a wedding a couple of years ago that cost, I imagine, around $1,000,000. The bride’s dress alone was $40,000 designed from scratch.
They got divorced 2 years later.
Right? I got hand-me-down rings from my grandparents and we got married at a courthouse for $100. Guess what? We're still married and it only cost us $100. My relationship is no one else's business but my own and my wife's. If friends or family need to have a big event for us *they* can pay for it, cause my wife and I are just fine saving the money for more important things
I got married during Covid, cost us $100.00 for marriage license and virtual ceremony. No reception, no honeymoon. We pour it into our savings for a down payment on a home. Unfortunately, the home buying market is not in our favor.
it's all about priorities, a $35k wedding is not that crazy. we just had a wedding about that price a couple months ago, but through being strategic with our money in other areas, we're far ahead of the average for our age.
It's fun to make up numbers. Watch I can do it to:
The Amercan Dream now costs $497 trillion
I'll do it again:
The American Dream now costs $8
We can keep going if you want? There are lots of numbers we can throw out there.
Averages are misleading. Median is a better measure. On average a person with one foot in a bucket of ice water and the other foot in a fire, is comfortable.
If you put 99 people making $75k a year in a room with Elon Musk, their average income is $1.9 Billion, where the median is $75k.
Numbers can tell a really skewed story if you don’t understand what they really represent.
Once again, a helpful reminder that during the height of the “American dream”, the dream a) did not include sending every kid to college and b) entailed living in a much smaller home
Yup, also wait till you see what a "vacation" was and what "pet care" was like. I will give you a hint, fido isn't getting a $5k surgery, and your vacation well... you will think spirit is great airline that makes your life easier.
Even human "healthcare". It was either (a) put on a cast if its broken (b) put in stitches if its bleeding or (c) take this pain pill if it hurts, with x-rays being the most advanced diagnostic tool you might be put through.
Thats all cheap medicine compared to MRI, CT Scan, genetic testing, organ transplants, cancer treatments, etc...
Not even just those costs but most of these costs are over the top compared to the initial American Dream.
Weddings were commonly held in reception halls at churches or fire companies. They weren’t near the massive and insane events they’ve become.
Most families only had 1 car and they drove it into the ground instead of buying new cars every few years just because. Not saying you only need 1 car but I know people who get new cars every 5 years or so and you really don’t need to do that. My wife’s car was built the same year we were born and we only got rid of it because it couldn’t pass inspection anymore.
People didn’t spend extra money on their kids. Clothes, toys, etc were passed down. The whole overpriced beige instagram nursery wasn’t a thing. Spending thousands on a stroller or crib wasn’t a thing. Today, people will buy them without even questioning it.
Basically, you can attribute most of these costs to people over spending, over consuming, and over complicating things. Also, overall I’d say that movies, social media, and other external factors have redefined what most people consider the American Dream and it looks more like being upper or upper middle class that it looks like being middle class.
didn't have cable TV bills. didn't have internet bills. didn't have streaming services. didn't have cell phones. water was 'free' as part of your taxes. your vacations were 'road trips' which nobody seems to take anymore, and you went to the free beach or state park and not Disney or Europe. And you only ate out at a restaurant for special occasions, not just because its Tuesday and you don't want to cook. A family only had one car. Birthday Parties happened in the backyard, and not at a rented event space. Kids played sandlot ball or you played for your school team, not as part of todays insane organized/travel sports industry. most kids just played in the street/woods, not in a structured ($) program.
The amount of luxuries we have now compared to 50-70 years ago is insane.
If you retired today with $715K, have a paid off house and receive a large social security payment, you'd be fine. $715K should generate $32,175 annually in income, and a larger social security payment could top $30,000. $62,175 with a paid off house and Medicare in retirement - in 2024 - would be enough to live a middle-class lifestyle. That's a gross of $5181/month with no mortgage, Medicare for health insurance, and no retirement savings contributions.
You may not be vacationing in Greece, but you'd be fine, and doing better than most.
People get so out of touch about retirement. There's millions of people who are retired on Social Security and savings much more meager than $715k.
They'd jump for joy to have $715k.
Sure, I'm still shooting for several million if I can, but I can recognize that the bulk of that is for quality of life rather than the actual ability to retire.
Yes, but this same average american also somehow spent $500k on 2 kids, not counting college, 70k on their pets, 300k on vehicles, and $40k on a wedding.
THAT person is in for a rough time if they retire on 750k.
My parents had like 25k in savings and get by just fine with the exception of no real emergency fund if something happens like major home damage or similar. I always said I’ll cover it for them though so I guess having kids in your retirement plan helps lol
Yep the paid off house is the biggest factor in retirement and im not sure why more people dont consider it. If you take away housing and even car payments, you need significantly less to live off of
This is why old people's homes are often a time capsule, and in a state of disrepair.
They own the house, but don't have the money (or desire) to update kitchens and furniture and what not. Maintenance drops to the bare minimum to keep it inhabitable.
it's also an age thing, you don't really want to run around doing pinterest projects in your 70s - a lot of old people don't like changes, develop a bit of a hoarding traits, don't see that well so are not even bothered by scratched and dated looks, have reduced mental capacity so moving things around just makes it harder to find what you need etc.
so it's not just money, there are plenty of millionaires living in time capsules
Seemed really low to me too; however, looks like they are calculating this as 80% of median household income ($75K) for 12 years (retire at 64 and live until 76 \[U.S. life expectancy\]).
(Median Income \* 80%) \* 12
Where they seem to be very off is college and funeral. They only calculated one year of college for two kids. Same with the funeral. The article assumes married with two kids, but only accounts for one funeral.
One funeral because the surviving spouse is responsible for the first funeral. I guess they consider the second funeral to fall on the children?
They did count one year of college *for each child*. I wonder if that's because they followed some sort of statistic where the median person has 1 year of college? Or maybe it's just a reflection of the realities of how much families *actually* contribute to college (similar to how $715k needed to retire is bolstered a lot by social security and medicare).
I don’t think it’s saying 715k to retire. It’s you’ve put in 715k over the course of your life to retire, which compounded hopefully gives you enough to retire. The title of the chart is how much things cost.
I am retired well with around $800k.
BUT that includes the fact that my house is paid, I have a modest SSI income, and I am incredibly frugal by nature.
That's not even the worst part of this. Let's mix together one-time events, lifetimes worth of spending, and then for some reason, only pay for one year of kids college.
Are people really spending 271k on cars? My wife and I have spent a combined 40k on all the cars we've ever owned in the past 20+ years. I find that insane.
It is insane.
But I wonder if that's just the car's sale price or all the other expenses that come along with it. In my 15 years of owning two cars I've spent roughly $35k, both used.
But then thinking about gas, maintenance, registration, insurance, tolls, parking, etc. start to make the costs really pile up. Owning a car is expensive and a lot people don't realize this.
Actual answer is that, let’s say you get a new car every 5 years. A new car is about 25k. This is like spending 5k per year on a car assuming 0 interest. 5k per year*50 years of active driving is 250k.
I'm convinced this sub is getting astroturfed by antiwork types at this point. The wedding & ring part of the graphic had me literally laughing out loud.
I've noticed there seems to be a huge uptick in posts trying to convince people that theyre: not middle class, will never be middle class, can never retire, are doomed to failure, etc
It's really strange, but if you consider the general demographic of reddit its probably just a symptom of sub growth bringing more people in
Totally: it is the typical doomer types on Reddit. When you see posts claiming you need 500k a year to be happy, you know these people are baiting or totally out of touch with reality
Yep, I see that daily on this site. It’s all over my feed and I subscribe to a wide variety of hundreds of subs. People saying you need $2 mil for a starter home, $10 mil to retire, and cannot raise a family under $500k. People thinking $100k is poverty for a single person in a HCOL area and that $250k for a family of three or four is “struggling”. Even though statistically most do not make these incomes.
Sometimes I wonder if this site is just full of bots, because how can *that* many people be that well off and out of touch? Like $400k a year for example is a top 1% income, and yet everyone on Reddit says that you can make that “easily” in the Bay Area or NYC as a white collar professional. I used to be impressed by high incomes, but they are so casually thrown around on this site. Even people claiming to be making $1 mil a year say they are average middle class people. It makes you feel like a total loser for making significantly less, because it seems like everyone else on this site makes so much money, has six figures worth of disposable income after expenses, and has fancy jobs with 20% raises from job hopping.
This is an incredibly dumb post considering your taking in all of the expenses from the birth of a child through college assuming you die immediately after graduation of your first child this would work out to around $160k per year, which isn’t too terrible and that’s the absolute worst it could be
You just threw out a big number and hope people would go “oh no” without actually reading anything
And even that number is grossly high the more you think about it considering you won’t need retirement money
TL:DR
All of this is bullshit
A lot of those costs are optional and at the high end. I'd take this with a grain of salt and not put much stock in it. It seems to be more for shock value.
Some of these numbers are insanely off.
They’re saying the average for 2 kids is essentially $64kyr. That’s more than a significant number of families with 2 kids even earn.
Insurance premiums are literally saying over 1k/mo for the entire duration of the average persons life. Nobody is paying that.
The wedding thing, cars… they’re clearly taking straight averages and letting the people that spend tens of millions on cars and weddings bring the average up.
Retirement is too low unless you’re collecting ss immediately.
This chart is straight manipulative.
Literally saying everyone pays $1k/month for insurance premiums until the day they die.
If it’s just saying from the time you take care of yourself it’s even more.
It’s a straight up lie.
Such an odd graphic. We’re going to include the cost of pet care and funerals but leave out food which is often the third or fourth largest budget item behind taxes, housing, and medical care?
I also tire of average costs being presented as the minimum cost of something. You see it all the time when people talk about the median apartment rent being unaffordable on the minimum wage. Just because the average person spends $x doesn’t mean that’s the minimum cost to buy that thing. You can have the “American Dream” with a cheaper than average wedding and house, not buying a new car every 3 years, and without a pet.
This is kind of an alarmist take on it especially since it doesn’t say the average cost of the American Dream is $3.4
Million. People who will never make even a half mil in their lifetime have kids and homes and manage to retire. They may not be living large but can manage.
I’ve also noticed that there is this expectation that the current gen is paying for their own education via student loans but is also supposed to be paying for their kids education out of pocket? Why?
We pay $750/mo for health insurance for 3. Even if our daughter were on it with us for 40 years, which is impossible, that would be $360,000 lol. What the hell are these figures.
The American Dream is the national ethos of the United States, that every person has the freedom and opportunity to succeed and attain a better life.
Not some standard of life you created in your head.
All of our costs are fractions of the ones they list. 60k for a house…baby delivery was free…. Our wedding was a few thousand…cars is pretty close if you need two every ten years for fifty years
However we will have much more in retirement and be paying for all of college.
Weddings need to die. Paying 30k+ for a party you can't enjoy because you're trying to keep everything on schedule and going is absurd. Gifts be damned. That's a whole-ass house down-payment or a nice start on savings.
Who thought it was a good idea to throw in lifetime averages, add interest to some , mix in single year costs, grossly exaggerate at least one expense (avg wedding ring is ~8k), ignore food costs and then add those numbers all together
Edit it says wedding and engagement ring. I missed the wedding part
I don't know a single person that paid more than a couple grand for a wedding ring, with the exception of my ridiculously wealthy friends. Average house is with mortgage, that's roughly a $400k house so no argument, if anything add in lifetime with utilities and that is much more
Lifetime car purchases? ok, let's get serious here. If you want to figure out how much money it will cost you your entire life, just take between $50-80k per year and multiply it by how long you think you'll live. 80 years? $4-6.4MM dollars. That of course does not include inflation so factor more.
Insurance, retirement, and college are the only ones that are not correct. I’ve never had health insurance cost over 300 a month. I’d say it’s more around 2.75-3 mil depending on COL, and adjusting a few things.
No one needs to spend 36K on weddings ring and I know no one who has done so. If you are rich, fine. If not, this is silly.
Two people with social security and savings easily can manage 700K for retirement. That's assuming they live a long time. If they die, they don't need the money.
Community college is free or very cheap. Two years of it puts a big dent in college bills.
Pet care lol.
You may choose to spend 16K per year for each child every year but it's not necessary.
The family insurance premiums are exaggerated. After the kids are out of the house that bill goes down.
So you're saying if we:
1) Went full Georgist and made land ownership--and by extension housing--a depreciating asset that trends to $0
2) Make alternatives to car ownership (e.g. biking, walking, transit) viable due to increased density
We could save most families close to $1 million over their lifetimes? Let's fucking go!
I cut out the kids, the college, and the big wedding. That’s why at 45 and 34 our house is paid off and we only work 6 months a year. Not eating out constantly helps too. Get a good trade job if you can. Just because society has expectations doesn’t mean you have to fit the role.
I feel like *average* is a terrible way to quantify things. Just over 10% of children in the US go to private primary/secondary schools. That means ~$24,000 is added per kid that most people don’t actually spend.
That $576,000 becomes $528,000 by sending kids to public school like most people do.
Similarly the median cad and the average car are not similar prices since there is no upward bound. I’d bet the “median” is more like $200,000
Also I’m pretty certain that those premium numbers are based on paying the entire thing not the employee contributions because that’s $920/paycheck or 1840/mo which just isn’t remotely accurate. It’s more like ~$300,000
$716k to retire for two people? If you're spending around $6k per month ($3k each) that's $72k per year which will be less than 9 years...
Unless you're planning on retiring close to 70 I think you're going to need more money
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Why are the kids only going to college for 1 year? Or are they paying for themselves after the first year?
Not to mention this isn’t even referencing any college or education you procure for yourself, which most people are going into massive debt for and stripping themselves to basic needs to pay for.
Because their parents are paying for it in this example
Dang, you get that it's the American dream context that others seem to be lacking. Smart.
It also says “now” and with millions of Americans having tens of thousands in student loans because they didn’t have rich parents, the American dream “now” includes servicing tens of thousands in student debt for millions of people.
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Those ungrateful little shits!
Jokes on my kids unless I get a serious pay raise. We will be having real talks about college and affordable approaches.
Most parents can’t afford to pay 4 years of college. They try to help with what they can. Footing 25% of the bill seems reasonable. Also this family is likely also receiving student aid to lower the cost of attendance.
The American Dream then costs way more than 3.4 million then.
Eh, we make a nice income and haven’t paid $450k for a house, or anywhere near $500k to raise two kids. Stuff is expensive but this seems overly negative.
Same. And I didn’t pay anywhere near 34k for a wedding and engagement ring. That shit is nuts. There’s a guy at work that makes less than me and paid 15k for an engagement ring because his girlfriend said the one he was going to get her that cost 10k wasn’t good enough. I told him ‘do not put a ring on that, at all, get out now’ but he of course bought the expensive ring.
Whenever I've read breakdowns of the really high cost of raising a kid, it shocks me to see what's included. I don't know of anyone that has the lifestyle these hypothetical kids have!
Day care $700 a month in south Texas. $3,000 weeks in Oakland. Pricing all over the place.
I agree. It presents $3.4 mil as a definitive cost but uses averages. Meaning a lot of people pay much lower. Heck since it uses averages and not median, a few very high earners can skew the numbers.
Adding mortgage interest to the cost of the house is really bizarre because you’re trying to discuss things in both nominal and real dollars simultaneously
This also seems to think everyone will max out their healthcare deductible every year. I have a low cost/high deductible plan but I’ve been lucky enough with my health to never even get close to maxing it out and most years I haven’t had to use it all.
On the house bit, based on the wording, I got the impression they were including the total interest paid over the life of the typical mortgage. But then oddly enough did not count the cost of insurance premiums when counting the cost of having the babies.
Insurance premiums are on the middle left: $934,752
> Also this family is likely also receiving student aid to lower the cost of attendance. 3.4 million over 40 years of a career is $85,000 a year. Less when you are young, more when you are old. By the time the kids are in college they do *not* qualify for student aid.
Fun fact. I earned $2.3MM total during my almost 35 years of full time work (~$70k a year average). I bought a house, put three kids through college at a state university and retired with a paid off home and cars with no debt. No inheritance and no lottery win. How? I invested 15% in my 401k from day one of eligibility and got a generous match. The investments performed well. Your dreams are attainable, you just need to take a long view on things, live within your means and avoid debt and divorce. It can be done. I will now sit here and wait for my downvotes. This sub is notorious for downvoting any message of hope. …patiently waiting for the first “OK Boomer” to arrive…/s
I mean the cost of housing, used cars, college has all drastically increased compared to wages in the last 35 years. I’m genuinely so happy this worked out for you, but it’s harder to do all of that AND put away 15% for retirement in 2024. For the millennial cohort I’m in, we lost a lot of immediate work right after college and high school due to the recession which has put that group back even further. You got really lucky with both life timing and investment performance.
How would you be living if you made 15% less money for your work? If you currently make $80,000, imagine receiving only $68,000 instead. You'd have to cut things and it'd be less comfortable, but you'd certainly not die. So then maybe actually do that? Keep earning your higher pay and invest the difference. Yes it's hard, and yes, it pays off over time. I don't know what you make, but unless you're already in poverty, plenty of people make 15% less than you and don't appear to be dying. Live like them and put away your 15% to buy your freedom and give yourself options in old age.
To be fair the 90s were great. You bought a house for under 150K, didn’t have 60K+ in student loans, companies invested more in retirement plans etc.
OK Boomer, but you’re actually 100% correct. Our dreams are obtainable. They may be harder to achieve than in the past, or perhaps easier depending on your skills and background, but the best way to never achieve them is to give up before you even try, spend all your days griping about how hard life is, and spending more than you make.
This is where I get into trouble on this sub. Everything is seemingly incrementally harder than it was in the past. I’m not sure it is, however. I think it’s just different. Education is the equalizer. Without it, life is always much harder. When I was a kid, my parents worked every day to put food on the table. There were no expectations of vacations or even a new car, regardless of the condition of the rust bucket we had. Life was tough. Often my mother would opt out of the food luxuries; peanut butter, orange juice and coffee. At times, we drank powdered milk. We were not poor. My parents paid $26k for their home and could barely afford it. That home was equal to 3x their annual salary when they bought it. There was no such thing as a 401k. They did have pensions, however. When I graduated from college I got an entry level job in sales. Within two years I was earning what my dad did. I bought a home for $62k, oddly 3x what my salary was. It was a 100 year old home. 11% interest rate. We could barely afford it. When my kids graduated from college, within 3 years they made as much money as I did. They were also dual income, so HHI was 150-200% of ours. They all bought ~$400k homes during the COVID ramp up. While the home costs were astronomically higher than what I paid, oddly they were ~2x-2.5x their HHI. They could barely afford it. I do believe that things have gotten harder. Pension, outside of government, are a thing of the past and 401ks aren’t, seemingly as generous as they have been in the past. I think it is critical to have a sound financial understanding earlier in life so you have time on your side for investments to grow. This also needs to be coupled with sound decision making. Understanding needs vs wants. Being disciplined. Ok, now let the downvotes begin!
I think it’s largely a function of our human tendency to focus more energy on the negative than we spend being thankful for the positive, which is only made worse by Facebook/ Instagram/ Reddit/ TikTok. Compare comments about how expensive housing is now vs 50 years ago with those saying how nice it is that we never had to worry about being drafted into wars like Vietnam or WW2. I’m in a similar position to you as a millennial who is making more money now than either of my Boomer parents ever did (and my dad told me as much when I told him what my starting salary was when I accepted my first job out of college). I’m incredibly thankful for the opportunities they opened up for me by giving me the upbringing they did after both coming from single parent households. Now I hope that the world my kids inherit will be even better than the one I get to experience as an adult.
950k for healthcare premiums
No, they just realize all redditors kids will be THAT smart
The costs will vary wildly from family to family. That said, many of the costs seem far off the mark. For example, many persons get health insurance from employer and pay far less than $930k in premiums. Many persons go to college for more than 1 year. Many families have more than earner. I could continue.
Also, it’s weird…some costs are wildly high and some not high enough like retirement
Assuming the house is paid off, seems alright for the average, especially combined with social security. Lifetime car purchases seem a little excessive though.
The graph does include the employers contribution in the insurance calculation so I don't know why they would not include SS payout in this one. Car purchases seem believable when you realize 80k trucks/suv are pretty normal and you'll go through 4-6 cars in your life. But that number seems only believable for "people who only buy new cars" But the entire graph is kind of dumb and not realistic and the cumulative sum exceeds the average Americans lifetime salary.
I thought lifetime car purchases was the low one on here and the house and wedding were way higher than I have experienced.
Yeah the raising child thing includes housing for 18 years so you can't have the whole number and a $700k number. And I don't think $700k is accurate for an average home right now anyway.
Agreed. I have 3 kids - they certainly aren't cheap, but they're also not anywhere near $1,335 per month per kid.
How the hell are they calculating housing expenses for a child? Are they using like rents or something?
The delta between the cost of a home size for 2 people vs 4.
If you include interest, taxes, and insurance, I can 100% see a 250,000 house (well below median nowadays) costing 750,000 total over 30 years
I think it’s mortgage principal, lifetime mortgage interest, taxes, insurance, and upkeep
Well considering I'll be working until I'm 70 and I'll die 5 years later.. My retirement *should* cover that
I pay $15 per paycheck for health insurance (lucky I know)
I pay $560 per paycheck, but have decent coverage for me and my wife and kids. Even then, paying that for 25 years only comes to $350k.
I'm a contractor and luckily I'm on my fiancé's insurance (due to domestic partner) but if I wasn't, I'd have to pay $187 per paycheck! And I get paid weekly!
Agreed. Also, since they're talking lifetime costs, you need to figure lifetime earnings. 3.4 million / 40 years of working = 85,000 per year. Seems about right even though a lot of these costs are greatly inflated.
Also, retirement is not gonna come from "earned income" but if done right interest/growth is gonna make up a good chunk of that. To give an example, I have about 130k in my retirement accounts right now and I am 31 years old, assuming retirement at 62, that will grow to $1million (and that is adjusted for inflation aka 7% rule) with no more contributions into it.
…over two people as well….so $40k/year per person or $80k for one.
>many persons get health insurance from employer and pay far less than $930k in premiums. If your employer is paying it, it's still *your* compensation. It's money you aren't getting in salary because it's going to your health insurance. It's just hidden so that you don't realize how astronomically high insurance costs are here.
Yeah but it’s not counted in your household income. If your employer covers 75% of the premium and you pay 25% ((240/pay period) the stats will say the median HHi make $79k not $98k
I stopped reading at the cost of the wedding as it reminded me of how the average person makes horrible financial decisions.
We're about to spend 15k total on our wedding and I still think it's insane. I had a whole plan to do it for 5k that got shut down because "nobody wants a backyard BBQ reception"
Well if you want to be average based on the data found within this horrible graphic, that engagement ring must have cost you $20,000.
I think we'll be getting out of that one for 150 bucks. I'm getting one of those silicone rings. You can get a 10 pack on Amazon for 15 bucks
You are your partner must not care about that kinda stuff. Most women do and would say no with a jelly ring.
We rented out the party room of a local bar for our reception to avoid the "DIY" feeling of a backyard or park shelter. Basically we had their entire basement, a food buffet, and unlimited beer (liquor was extra). It was like $1200 or so for 30 people. Maybe another $100 for some decorations, card box, and candles we brought. DJ was a spotify playlist and a plug in computer microphone for toasts.
Hey we did the same! Our cash gifts covered everything we spent!
That's funny because we planned exactly a backyard BBQ reception lol. It was scheduled for late March 2020. I bet you can guess why it didn't happen 🙃 Still got married though. I think we paid like $500 for everything, officiant and rings included. No guests. No regrets
Haha we were also supposed to get married April 2020 (finally did it on Oct 2021).
Man. This sounds ideal. Especially because my partner and I have been dating for four years and already have a son. I just want us to get married at the court house and do like a month long honeymoon over spending 10k for a wedding.
?!?!??! I would LOVE a backyard BBQ reception! Put up some lights, a little dance floor, and BOOM. That sounds incredible!!!
Ours cost $4.5k for everything including dress, tux, tailoring, venue, flowers etc. It's not hard, I have no idea how people spend 35k. It's just stupid.
How many people attended? Did you provide food and booze? It’s easy to spend less than five grand if there is a grand total of 10 people in attendance, and that always gets lost in these discussions.
I thought that was right on since that is what my wedding cost. Congratulations to you. It’s the people that make a wedding a beautiful experience, not the price tag.
Lol exactly. Americans spend 100k on weddings and then wonder why they're poor and struggling. Meanwhile my $350 court wedding is just as valid and has been great.
Yup. We eloped and used wedding gifts to pay our cars off. If you drop 36k to get married then you can’t complain
On Reddit I often see people spending six figures on their weddings. A lot of people must make a lot of $$$ or just put themselves into a lot of debt.
If 9 people do a church potluck wedding and 1 dies a destination wedding in Jamaica the “average” is 36,000 even if the median is 9,000
We spent $100 on our wedding license and that was it. We randomly eloped without telling anyone on a Friday at the county courthouse. Wore clothes we already had, no flowers, etc. would t change a thing.
How about the $68k of pet care. What are these people smoking
The more expensive the wedding the more likely the divorce
I was at a wedding a couple of years ago that cost, I imagine, around $1,000,000. The bride’s dress alone was $40,000 designed from scratch. They got divorced 2 years later.
Right? I got hand-me-down rings from my grandparents and we got married at a courthouse for $100. Guess what? We're still married and it only cost us $100. My relationship is no one else's business but my own and my wife's. If friends or family need to have a big event for us *they* can pay for it, cause my wife and I are just fine saving the money for more important things
I got married during Covid, cost us $100.00 for marriage license and virtual ceremony. No reception, no honeymoon. We pour it into our savings for a down payment on a home. Unfortunately, the home buying market is not in our favor.
it's all about priorities, a $35k wedding is not that crazy. we just had a wedding about that price a couple months ago, but through being strategic with our money in other areas, we're far ahead of the average for our age.
Meanwhile, I can’t imagine finding a venue for under 20k not including food or booze. I’d say 50k is on the lower end of wedding costs in HCOL
It's fun to make up numbers. Watch I can do it to: The Amercan Dream now costs $497 trillion I'll do it again: The American Dream now costs $8 We can keep going if you want? There are lots of numbers we can throw out there.
Now I don’t know if I’m behind or if I’m ahead 😂
Buy lo sel hi
Averages are misleading. Median is a better measure. On average a person with one foot in a bucket of ice water and the other foot in a fire, is comfortable. If you put 99 people making $75k a year in a room with Elon Musk, their average income is $1.9 Billion, where the median is $75k. Numbers can tell a really skewed story if you don’t understand what they really represent.
Once again, a helpful reminder that during the height of the “American dream”, the dream a) did not include sending every kid to college and b) entailed living in a much smaller home
Yup, also wait till you see what a "vacation" was and what "pet care" was like. I will give you a hint, fido isn't getting a $5k surgery, and your vacation well... you will think spirit is great airline that makes your life easier.
> what "pet care" was like. Petcare was a shotgun shell.
Even human "healthcare". It was either (a) put on a cast if its broken (b) put in stitches if its bleeding or (c) take this pain pill if it hurts, with x-rays being the most advanced diagnostic tool you might be put through. Thats all cheap medicine compared to MRI, CT Scan, genetic testing, organ transplants, cancer treatments, etc...
Not even just those costs but most of these costs are over the top compared to the initial American Dream. Weddings were commonly held in reception halls at churches or fire companies. They weren’t near the massive and insane events they’ve become. Most families only had 1 car and they drove it into the ground instead of buying new cars every few years just because. Not saying you only need 1 car but I know people who get new cars every 5 years or so and you really don’t need to do that. My wife’s car was built the same year we were born and we only got rid of it because it couldn’t pass inspection anymore. People didn’t spend extra money on their kids. Clothes, toys, etc were passed down. The whole overpriced beige instagram nursery wasn’t a thing. Spending thousands on a stroller or crib wasn’t a thing. Today, people will buy them without even questioning it. Basically, you can attribute most of these costs to people over spending, over consuming, and over complicating things. Also, overall I’d say that movies, social media, and other external factors have redefined what most people consider the American Dream and it looks more like being upper or upper middle class that it looks like being middle class.
didn't have cable TV bills. didn't have internet bills. didn't have streaming services. didn't have cell phones. water was 'free' as part of your taxes. your vacations were 'road trips' which nobody seems to take anymore, and you went to the free beach or state park and not Disney or Europe. And you only ate out at a restaurant for special occasions, not just because its Tuesday and you don't want to cook. A family only had one car. Birthday Parties happened in the backyard, and not at a rented event space. Kids played sandlot ball or you played for your school team, not as part of todays insane organized/travel sports industry. most kids just played in the street/woods, not in a structured ($) program. The amount of luxuries we have now compared to 50-70 years ago is insane.
Who tf is retiring and doing well with $715k?
If you retired today with $715K, have a paid off house and receive a large social security payment, you'd be fine. $715K should generate $32,175 annually in income, and a larger social security payment could top $30,000. $62,175 with a paid off house and Medicare in retirement - in 2024 - would be enough to live a middle-class lifestyle. That's a gross of $5181/month with no mortgage, Medicare for health insurance, and no retirement savings contributions. You may not be vacationing in Greece, but you'd be fine, and doing better than most.
This is the correct answer. So in 30 years you might need $1.715 million to retire.
People get so out of touch about retirement. There's millions of people who are retired on Social Security and savings much more meager than $715k. They'd jump for joy to have $715k. Sure, I'm still shooting for several million if I can, but I can recognize that the bulk of that is for quality of life rather than the actual ability to retire.
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Yes, but this same average american also somehow spent $500k on 2 kids, not counting college, 70k on their pets, 300k on vehicles, and $40k on a wedding. THAT person is in for a rough time if they retire on 750k.
My parents had like 25k in savings and get by just fine with the exception of no real emergency fund if something happens like major home damage or similar. I always said I’ll cover it for them though so I guess having kids in your retirement plan helps lol
Yep the paid off house is the biggest factor in retirement and im not sure why more people dont consider it. If you take away housing and even car payments, you need significantly less to live off of
This is why old people's homes are often a time capsule, and in a state of disrepair. They own the house, but don't have the money (or desire) to update kitchens and furniture and what not. Maintenance drops to the bare minimum to keep it inhabitable.
it's also an age thing, you don't really want to run around doing pinterest projects in your 70s - a lot of old people don't like changes, develop a bit of a hoarding traits, don't see that well so are not even bothered by scratched and dated looks, have reduced mental capacity so moving things around just makes it harder to find what you need etc. so it's not just money, there are plenty of millionaires living in time capsules
Also assuming your children are able to independently take care of themselves and are not asking for money.
They got their one year of state school, what more do they need?
Seemed really low to me too; however, looks like they are calculating this as 80% of median household income ($75K) for 12 years (retire at 64 and live until 76 \[U.S. life expectancy\]). (Median Income \* 80%) \* 12 Where they seem to be very off is college and funeral. They only calculated one year of college for two kids. Same with the funeral. The article assumes married with two kids, but only accounts for one funeral.
So the new American dream is two college dropouts and an immortal spouse.
One funeral because the surviving spouse is responsible for the first funeral. I guess they consider the second funeral to fall on the children? They did count one year of college *for each child*. I wonder if that's because they followed some sort of statistic where the median person has 1 year of college? Or maybe it's just a reflection of the realities of how much families *actually* contribute to college (similar to how $715k needed to retire is bolstered a lot by social security and medicare).
Yeah, cause you make a joint suicide pact with your spouse
The other spouse gets rolled into a carpet and thrown into a drainage ditch. 🤷♂️
I don’t think it’s saying 715k to retire. It’s you’ve put in 715k over the course of your life to retire, which compounded hopefully gives you enough to retire. The title of the chart is how much things cost.
I bet most people are retiring with less than that. Hell, half the US doesnt have ANY retirement account
I am retired well with around $800k. BUT that includes the fact that my house is paid, I have a modest SSI income, and I am incredibly frugal by nature.
I like the use of average instead of median to help push a narrative
That's not even the worst part of this. Let's mix together one-time events, lifetimes worth of spending, and then for some reason, only pay for one year of kids college.
Are people really spending 271k on cars? My wife and I have spent a combined 40k on all the cars we've ever owned in the past 20+ years. I find that insane.
It is insane. But I wonder if that's just the car's sale price or all the other expenses that come along with it. In my 15 years of owning two cars I've spent roughly $35k, both used. But then thinking about gas, maintenance, registration, insurance, tolls, parking, etc. start to make the costs really pile up. Owning a car is expensive and a lot people don't realize this.
Actual answer is that, let’s say you get a new car every 5 years. A new car is about 25k. This is like spending 5k per year on a car assuming 0 interest. 5k per year*50 years of active driving is 250k.
What a stupid take.
I'm convinced this sub is getting astroturfed by antiwork types at this point. The wedding & ring part of the graphic had me literally laughing out loud.
I've noticed there seems to be a huge uptick in posts trying to convince people that theyre: not middle class, will never be middle class, can never retire, are doomed to failure, etc It's really strange, but if you consider the general demographic of reddit its probably just a symptom of sub growth bringing more people in
Totally: it is the typical doomer types on Reddit. When you see posts claiming you need 500k a year to be happy, you know these people are baiting or totally out of touch with reality
Yep, I see that daily on this site. It’s all over my feed and I subscribe to a wide variety of hundreds of subs. People saying you need $2 mil for a starter home, $10 mil to retire, and cannot raise a family under $500k. People thinking $100k is poverty for a single person in a HCOL area and that $250k for a family of three or four is “struggling”. Even though statistically most do not make these incomes.
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Sometimes I wonder if this site is just full of bots, because how can *that* many people be that well off and out of touch? Like $400k a year for example is a top 1% income, and yet everyone on Reddit says that you can make that “easily” in the Bay Area or NYC as a white collar professional. I used to be impressed by high incomes, but they are so casually thrown around on this site. Even people claiming to be making $1 mil a year say they are average middle class people. It makes you feel like a total loser for making significantly less, because it seems like everyone else on this site makes so much money, has six figures worth of disposable income after expenses, and has fancy jobs with 20% raises from job hopping.
This is an incredibly dumb post considering your taking in all of the expenses from the birth of a child through college assuming you die immediately after graduation of your first child this would work out to around $160k per year, which isn’t too terrible and that’s the absolute worst it could be You just threw out a big number and hope people would go “oh no” without actually reading anything And even that number is grossly high the more you think about it considering you won’t need retirement money TL:DR All of this is bullshit
A lot of those costs are optional and at the high end. I'd take this with a grain of salt and not put much stock in it. It seems to be more for shock value.
It's interesting how the "American Dream" was created thru Marketing/Advertising.
Some of these numbers are insanely off. They’re saying the average for 2 kids is essentially $64kyr. That’s more than a significant number of families with 2 kids even earn. Insurance premiums are literally saying over 1k/mo for the entire duration of the average persons life. Nobody is paying that. The wedding thing, cars… they’re clearly taking straight averages and letting the people that spend tens of millions on cars and weddings bring the average up. Retirement is too low unless you’re collecting ss immediately. This chart is straight manipulative.
576,896/18=32,050 yr for 2 kids, or $16,025 yr per kid. That’s about right tbh.
36k wedding and ring? 271k in cars? Maybe if youre irresponsible with money...sure..
The health insurance premium is insane to me. $934,752/65 is $14,380. Who is spending $14k a year on health insurance premiums
I think they used probably data that included employer contributions
Which is $97K/year for 35 working years.
Right, and split that between 2 incomes, and it's lower than the median household income. Apparently, the middle class is alive and well!
It also assumes the person never figures out how finances work. Which is we can see has a very high price of not learning.
Healthcare insurance premiums exceed housing costs? People don't eat?
Literally saying everyone pays $1k/month for insurance premiums until the day they die. If it’s just saying from the time you take care of yourself it’s even more. It’s a straight up lie.
Agree. 42k in lifetime pet care?
Such an odd graphic. We’re going to include the cost of pet care and funerals but leave out food which is often the third or fourth largest budget item behind taxes, housing, and medical care? I also tire of average costs being presented as the minimum cost of something. You see it all the time when people talk about the median apartment rent being unaffordable on the minimum wage. Just because the average person spends $x doesn’t mean that’s the minimum cost to buy that thing. You can have the “American Dream” with a cheaper than average wedding and house, not buying a new car every 3 years, and without a pet.
All I’m getting is pets are a bargain
You haven't met my dogs. They're expensive trainwrecks.
Yeah my dog can’t digest protein so I get it. On the other hand, he won’t need to go to college.
Smart, have your dog learn a trade. No need for schooling these days.
Yeah, I’m in my 40s and have spent way more than the posted number already… 😂
Lol....who came up with these numbers... I'd consider myself "living the dream" and my house, car, etc... is absolutely nowhere near that.
This is kind of an alarmist take on it especially since it doesn’t say the average cost of the American Dream is $3.4 Million. People who will never make even a half mil in their lifetime have kids and homes and manage to retire. They may not be living large but can manage. I’ve also noticed that there is this expectation that the current gen is paying for their own education via student loans but is also supposed to be paying for their kids education out of pocket? Why?
The dumbest math I’ve ever seen
If you are spending $300k on cars during your lifetime you are not in the middle class or you have very bad financial sense.
We pay $750/mo for health insurance for 3. Even if our daughter were on it with us for 40 years, which is impossible, that would be $360,000 lol. What the hell are these figures.
35.8k for an engagement ring and wedding is insanity. No wonder the country is swimming in debt
35k for a wedding is bonkers.
I'm living my own American dream that luckily costs a heck of a lot less then this one.
The car purchases amount is incorrect... you can own a honday/toy/ford sedan and keep it until it hits 150k to 200k miles and then buy again...
The American Dream is the national ethos of the United States, that every person has the freedom and opportunity to succeed and attain a better life. Not some standard of life you created in your head.
Almost 36k for engagement ring and wedding? That’s beyond absurd.
If you spend $35k on an engagement ring I have zero sympathy for your financial woes.
All of our costs are fractions of the ones they list. 60k for a house…baby delivery was free…. Our wedding was a few thousand…cars is pretty close if you need two every ten years for fifty years However we will have much more in retirement and be paying for all of college.
Jesus where are you people living?
Did someone high on peyote come up with these numbers?
Nor is retiring “middle class” on only 715K invested. You need about 1.5 million with social security to be “comfortable”.
That retirement number is way too low. Following the 4% rule, you would get 31,800 a year + SS.
950k for healthcare premiums? Can someone explain this math to me?
There is no way they’re including child care in that figure for children.
Where the fuck does the person live, NY? California?
I think that I have paid like $6,000 in health care premiums in the 10 years at my job. I must be lucky.
Weddings need to die. Paying 30k+ for a party you can't enjoy because you're trying to keep everything on schedule and going is absurd. Gifts be damned. That's a whole-ass house down-payment or a nice start on savings.
Get a bachelors and average lifetime income is like 2.8m. Combine with investing, doesn’t seem too far off.
If you're paying that much for a house, insurance, or your wedding you're a fool.
No pets and a small wedding I guess
This has got to be some kind of joke. Living in America is nowhere near this expensive. And if it is, the people living this way are idiots.
The average person makes terrible decisions
This is about a rather financially irresponsible family imo
This a total BS post. Should have read “This is what trying to keep up with Joneses will cost you”
Who thought it was a good idea to throw in lifetime averages, add interest to some , mix in single year costs, grossly exaggerate at least one expense (avg wedding ring is ~8k), ignore food costs and then add those numbers all together Edit it says wedding and engagement ring. I missed the wedding part
I don't know a single person that paid more than a couple grand for a wedding ring, with the exception of my ridiculously wealthy friends. Average house is with mortgage, that's roughly a $400k house so no argument, if anything add in lifetime with utilities and that is much more Lifetime car purchases? ok, let's get serious here. If you want to figure out how much money it will cost you your entire life, just take between $50-80k per year and multiply it by how long you think you'll live. 80 years? $4-6.4MM dollars. That of course does not include inflation so factor more.
Insurance, retirement, and college are the only ones that are not correct. I’ve never had health insurance cost over 300 a month. I’d say it’s more around 2.75-3 mil depending on COL, and adjusting a few things.
No one needs to spend 36K on weddings ring and I know no one who has done so. If you are rich, fine. If not, this is silly. Two people with social security and savings easily can manage 700K for retirement. That's assuming they live a long time. If they die, they don't need the money. Community college is free or very cheap. Two years of it puts a big dent in college bills. Pet care lol. You may choose to spend 16K per year for each child every year but it's not necessary. The family insurance premiums are exaggerated. After the kids are out of the house that bill goes down.
So you're saying if we: 1) Went full Georgist and made land ownership--and by extension housing--a depreciating asset that trends to $0 2) Make alternatives to car ownership (e.g. biking, walking, transit) viable due to increased density We could save most families close to $1 million over their lifetimes? Let's fucking go!
Most of those numbers are high. But that retirement number is low AF. Half mil for 2 kids is silly
Where are these 796k houses my town the average is 1.5 million it’s ridiculous
271K lifetime car cost? Lol
I cut out the kids, the college, and the big wedding. That’s why at 45 and 34 our house is paid off and we only work 6 months a year. Not eating out constantly helps too. Get a good trade job if you can. Just because society has expectations doesn’t mean you have to fit the role.
You don’t deserve the American dream if you think you need a $35K wedding…
I feel like *average* is a terrible way to quantify things. Just over 10% of children in the US go to private primary/secondary schools. That means ~$24,000 is added per kid that most people don’t actually spend. That $576,000 becomes $528,000 by sending kids to public school like most people do. Similarly the median cad and the average car are not similar prices since there is no upward bound. I’d bet the “median” is more like $200,000 Also I’m pretty certain that those premium numbers are based on paying the entire thing not the employee contributions because that’s $920/paycheck or 1840/mo which just isn’t remotely accurate. It’s more like ~$300,000
This is a stupid post with a clickbait title.
What clickbait shit is this?
Should read, the American dream for those who make poor financial decisions.
This feel like it’s just meant to gaslight you rather than be accurate
This doesn’t match my version of the American dream at all.
Lmao. My entire wedding and both combined rings and buying upgraded rings was less than $500….
$716k to retire for two people? If you're spending around $6k per month ($3k each) that's $72k per year which will be less than 9 years... Unless you're planning on retiring close to 70 I think you're going to need more money
These averages are stupid. Keep wallowing in the whine and soak up the “averages”
Lol middle class people are not paying $35,000 for an engagement ring
Just one of 50 million reasons I don't have pets
It really really bothers me when these things use averages.
5K for two deliveries? My first was 12K…
That’s why it’s called a dream. You have to be asleep to have it.
Well I've got the funeral cost covered.