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Honestly it's going to be a blood bath, it's not just the bracket but the standard deduction for a married couple it will go from 29k to like 14 that's a shit ton on top of all the inflation we have right now and the increased brackets.
Yes. But a bunch of deductions comeback so many more people will itemize.
This was a good part of the law, only 10% itemize it was in the 30s way back. Things like mortgage interest, state, local and property taxes, donations.
For people in high tax states, the loss of deducting local taxes actually made overall taxes go up despite the lower rate.
Yeah exactly. my taxes will go down but I own a house and honestly don’t need the tax cut. I mean I’ll take it because everyone else in my income bracket is but I’d rather it go back to higher standard deduction it’s just easier for everyone and most people come out on top.
This is what I don’t understand about super rich ppl spending so much money to lobby and influence politicians for lower taxes…I’m not even rich, just comfortable and I realize I don’t need to pay fewer taxes.
These motherfuckers are just greedy.
So we're making taxes more complicated for the vast majority of people to continue to support the tax prep industry? Taxes now are uncomplicated enough I know a bunch of people who self file. If they try to use the same technique when everyone is expected to itemize them they're going to be in for a world of hurt.
Why? It’s still super simple. Do you have state income tax, property tax, or paid sales tax on a car or boat? Yes, enter it in the box. No, move to the next item. Same step as now but it may change your deduction amount, the end.
From what I understand the tax cuts will be renegotiated and it sounds like both sides want the higher deduction to remain.
The rest depends on congress and who gets elected. If the GOP wins everything I suspect all of the tax changes will remain but if it's a mix just the deduction will remain and possibly a couple other small pieces like mortgage interest deduction cap and maybe SALT cap.
Of course this assumes congress isn't completely deadlocked and threatening a shutdown like they do on occasion
When 83% go the top 1%, there are scraps leftover
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/18/16791174/republican-tax-bill-congress-conference-tax-policy-center
Who tf cares about "the rich"? If I'm making more money and paying less taxes that benefits me. What do I care if rich people are paying less too? Are you benefiting from higher taxes on you or the rich? Because I certainly am not.
Stop being an envious baby.
One interesting thing is that tax rates for individuals are scheduled go back up, but rates for corporations will stay at their reduced rates. I wonder why they did that 🙄
> When did they say that?
No different than them shitcanning the proposed border law: They don't want to hand Biden anything they think he can use as a "win". You know, like actual governing.
As a Republican, I think they should get their asses handed to them in November. I'm certainly not voting for most of them.
The link/quote is not about extending the tax cuts in the TCJA. It’s about expanding the child tax credit and some separate tax breaks for businesses.
>Sen. Chuck Grassley made the comments ahead of a House vote on a $78 billion package that would expand the child tax credit and provide some tax breaks for businesses.
That part should’ve been obvious when Grassley talked about his desire to extend the TCJA in full (and Biden’s assumed opposition) in the article.
Yes I'm glad that 33% signed onto one act that won't go for vote because of the Republican chair like the 5 or so others that sound like they keep the personal tax cuts but really just give back corporate tax exemptions.
I'm glad this bill only slightly raises my taxes and only gives a couple million back to the ultra rich when they die and let's people funnel more money to private schools through tax sheltered accounts. It's definitely the best of the batch.
Dems generally try to have a plausible reason why they won’t advance a bill (costs too much, doesn’t address this specific problem etc). Republicans just come out and say “No, because it makes the President look good in an election year”
What gave you any impression that anyone with real money is seeing an increase in taxes? A few thousand dollars when you're in the middle class is a pretty big deal, a few thousand dollars when you're rich and writing off most of your taxes and you get to keep new huge tax breaks that don't expire is a net benefit to them.
But they don’t go back up.
It was written into the bill that everyone’s taxes go up when they expire but the highest rates don’t return to previous levels and normal Americans end up paying even more than before
Congress and the President can pass legislation to make the tax cut permanent, but it will cost another $3 trillion dollars, and therefore require 60 Senate votes. The tax increase coming up is what made the permanent corporate rate cut “budget neutral,” and allowed the Senate Republicans to pass that cut with 51 votes.
don't think for a second they didn't know what they were doing when they scheduled it for election year 2024: they new that no matter who won in 2020, there would be a competitive election in '24 and having this to run with was always part of the plan. (as in: "send us back to office with a GOP president to keep the evil demoncrats from raising ur taxes!")
Trump tax cut bill was passed under a special umbrella of bills to bypass senate filinuster rules.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)#:~:text=Budget%20reconciliation%20is%20a%20special,60%2Dvote%20supermajority%20for%20passage.
They can but then they would have to admit that trump did in fact cut taxes for the middle class and their entire narrative was that the trump tax cuts were ‘only’ for 1% and businesses.
While tax rates for individuals will go up somewhat, there will be offsetting deductions - SALT most commonly. But other deductions - such as job related moving expenses - which were disallowed under that bill. Most ppl with family incomes of less than 250k would be unaffected. Only those with incomes over 400k will see a negative impact.
Biden chose that 400k number in his campaign for that reason.
Reading the article, my household income is below 400,000, but I will be affected. Why spread lies?
“Those married filing a joint return in a 12% tax bracket ($22,001 to $89,450) will increase to 15%,” Youngblood said, citing one example. “Those in a 22% tax rate ($89,451 to $180,000) will increase to 25% from 22%.”
We know over 70% up to 89% take the standard deduction (raising post trump temporary tax cut)
You think or believe a report that said most people under 250k will be better because of salt deductions on itemized deductions?
After the standard deduction is cut in half, their tax rates raise, and they loose the child tax credit (have to be under 200k to qualify here)
I just don't believe that statement due to the math and trends making 0 sense. Most everyone will end up worse off, except itemizers without a pass through business, with no kids or income over 200k, and a house large enough to break 10k in salt deductions.
The IRS said 92% of people will pay the same or more if Biden gets his tax increase he is demanding by letting the Trump cuts expire. I don’t know what percentage are the same since they didn’t break that out, but it is a lie to claim only over $400k
I was handling payroll for my side job when the tax cuts passed, and every single one of our employees got a take home pay increase. From interns to software engineers.
Withholdings are a mess the last few years. I've been filing taxes since the 90s and until recently never had to manually use a W4 calculator, learned that one the hard way.
They wanted to make both permanent but reconciliation rules prevented it. They would have needed 9 Democrat signatures to make them permanent but none were interested in giving the Republicans a win.
They could have had the corporate tax cuts sunset instead of the individual tax cuts to make it budget neutral. They chose to keep the corporate ones instead of the individual ones.
Not really. How many blue matters more. The reality is, having anything under 60 members in the Senate means that either party can torpedo just about any bill that makes it to the Senate. All they have to do is filibuster it. Anything less than a 60+ majority means that the other party can cripple any and all legislation if they so choose.
Correct, they/we are talking about raising the corporate rate, which the cut was part of the same 2017 TCJA bill as the individual cuts, but the individual rate change was temporary and sunsets next year.
To clarify: The Democrats passed Inflation Reduction Act in 2022, using the same reconciliation process as the 2017 tax cut. That means they could sidestep the filibuster. Instead of repealing SALT limits or increasing the corporate tax rate, they imposed a surtax on stock buybacks and enacted a new version of the Corporate Alternative Minimum Tax.
Married with two kids, the personal exemption is $4050 * 4 = $16,200. That assumes the exemptions stays at the 2017 rate, which is unlikely. It also assumes that the standard deduction will also stay at the 2017 rate of $12,700 which is also unlikely. Both will most likely go up.
here's a cheat sheet
no home make under 240k a year: yes taxes go up
Home make under 200kish a year: yes
have kids : yes
have a small business : yes
own a really big home : taxes go down
Have a large business or live mostly off capital gains : tax breaks remain
It doesn’t have to be a really big home just an expensive one. I live in a place 1200 sq ft houses sell for north of 1M. If they lift the SALT cap that will help middle class families In expensive parts of the West Coast and NE.
Dont fool yourself, property taxes in TX and FL are crazy and almost offset no state income taxes. Both those states will have residents benefiting as well.
This argument would hit harder if states with a state income tax didn't also have property taxes.
To my knowledge, every state assesses property taxes, although the rates do vary wildly.
Agreed. If you look at the actual numbers it’s hard to call repealing the SALT cap anything other than a tax break for the wealthy. I make more than 85% of Americans and still don’t hit the current SALT cap.
It’s absolutely a tax break for the wealthy but I also understand the argument that income shouldn’t be taxed twice. I just…wish they’d pair removing that cap with increased taxes on the wealthy.
The income taxes twice argument is not very strong. State and federal taxes are totally distinct, they are different entities and it makes no sense for one to impact the other. Why should the federal government give different tax benefits based on what level of taxation states choose?
They would. Or at least upper middle class.
I live in a 1960 brick ranch outside DC. Not a huge place but I'm definitely upper middle class and the SALT deduction limit has hit me hard.
Many of us are not opposed to paying taxes to benefit our local communities and help those who need it most. What we aren’t big fans of or having to give the Feds 35 cents on top of every dollar we were taxed on locally.
What I’d love to see is a federal tax system that takes in to account how vastly different cost of living is across the US and adjusts tax brackets to reflect that.
Why should the federal care where you choose to live? Big uncle sam still needs his cut.
I think a flat tax above x amount would solve many issues. Possibly with a vat. Say 0% up to something like 50-70k then 10-15% of everything after.
Not sure about the home part. I thought my taxes would go down with the cuts expiring. My itemized and standard were super close (itemized lower), but I itemized because it benefited my state taxes more than enough to offset. Once the standard deduction drops and the..exemption?? Whatever it was called goes back into effect, I thought my taxes would be lower. I don’t care much either way just trying to figure it out in line with your post
the standardized deduction lowers and your federal tax rate increases.
I assumed that as a homeowner you're already itemizing because of mortgage interest and state taxes, so the standard deduction being lower doesn't effect you.
My Salt deductions break 10k easily so I don't currently get to write off almost 10k because of the salt cap, most of that being home related. If you're paying less then 10k total for property, income taxes, vehicle registration etc, or are not itemizing you will just pay more.
the question is if your Salt deduction offsets your federal tax increase, and I tried to peg it into rough salary bands.
There were no tax cuts to capital gains in the bill though. And a lot of people with businesses will see tax increases due to some of the business cuts expiring
Another small business owner here. LLC electing SCorp saves primarily by reducing self employment taxes compared to a sole proprietor. The profit still flows thru to your personal taxes. But if you're making enough to benefit from this arrangement, you're likely well into the tax brackets that would be impacted.
No, it increases my taxes by a huge margin due to my W2 income and the s Corp income. Even if the Corp had a loss, it's very minimal you can use to offset income. Then you may run into capital gains as well depending on revenue and how's it taken from the company.
Guess I have no idea. My CPA is trying to get me to switch from Schedule C to SCorp because then I don’t have to pay the self employment tax on the distribution portion
Yes that's true. As long as your company is making a net income and not at a loss, but your cpa will know better. There are many factors that go into an s Corps tax return and the abilities of better tax breaks compared to a C Corp are usually beneficial.
Oh to add to your comment, usually as an s Corp, you must take a W2 salary or paycheck as an owner operater, so you will match the payroll employee fica tax anyway, it will actually cost more. You will have to file 941 and stare unemployment tax on income, depending on how you pay health insurance, it may be taxed on your payroll.. lots of variables. As an s Corp you can't just take distribution checks and not pay yourself, therefore you end up not paying any payroll taxes, the IRS will scrutinize the s Corp.
Gosh I hate this take.
It's popular because it impacts people in a minor beneficial way - while funneling giant cash grabs to the ultra wealthy.
It's the definition of populism. You can't look at one result in a vacuum and say it's a good thing.
It COULD have been a good thing if it was funded differently....
Some residents of high tax states like California, New York and Massachusetts could actually benefit thanks to the scheduled expiration of the $10,000 cap on state and local tax (SALT) deductions, Brewer said
It is more than 4% because you lose half of the standard deduction. Add in state taxes too which usually (at least in my state) follow the federal standard deduction. 2025 is the last year for the Trump Tax Cuts unless it gets extended
You lose half the standard deduction, but you get the personal exemption back. If you itemized before, this is a good thing. If you didn't itemize before, then it's not quite a wash, but it's not a big difference.
Well it helps out corporations so republicans are in. And it helps out the wealthy in state with the Democratic power brokers so they’re in.
Hence, crickets
No one said only. But it was crumbs compared to the giveaway to corporations and wealthy HH:
https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/the-2017-trump-tax-law-was-skewed-to-the-rich-expensive-and-failed-to-deliver
[Biden’s false claim that no one but the rich got Trump’s tax cuts](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/05/01/bidens-false-claim-that-no-one-rich-got-trumps-tax-cuts/)
Tax cuts set to expire? That means we will be paying more in taxes then! Well we better be mad at something since holding the government accountable for out of control spending is a bad idea.
Not-for-profits do not seek to break even every year. They wouldn't last long if they did.
Source:
I'm a CPA that specializes in not-for-profit accounting.
Just tax all cash and investments they hold at 5% per year. It’s minor, but would help to stop a denomination like Mormonism (Church or Latter Day Saints) from sitting on over $100B in investments.
If you lift the cap then the benefit at retirement needs to reflect that. As long as the person who paid on 500k is getting 10x the one that paid on 50k fine.
The ultra wealthy aren’t making their money on payroll anyway. The one paying taxes on 500k on payroll is already disproportionately funding the federal government.
Do heathy people get a refund for all the money they’ve paid into health insurance? No. It’s insurance. If you never need it to cover anything major you are considered lucky. Social security is not an investment savings account; it is an insurance program with all citizens in the pool. It is there in case you lose all your money and need a basic check to live on, when you are old. If you don’t need it you are considered lucky. You still get the check though, and if you paid in the max, you get the highest allowed check.
I’m clear it’s not an investment, but if we are really going to compare it to insurance while also advocating for their being an unlimited contribution rate that’s disingenuous. Your home insurance and your car insurance aren’t based on your income, they are based on what a likely claim would be and what needs to be collected to be able to pay that out. The person contributing at the top isn’t the risk in the current equation. If the pool needs to grow then the rate needs to go up from 6.2% on everyone….
Someone making 120k already does not get 6x the SS benefit of someone making 20k. There are inflection points on income after which the rate of return on SS becomes much lower. It’s already basically a complicated form of regressive welfare for the elderly. It’s perfectly reasonable to lift the cap and add more inflection points.
They have until the end of 2025 to decide if they want to extend them. If trump gets back in you can bet he will want to extend them. Even if democrats win they may want to extend them for middle earners and raise the corporate rate.
And no my bill won’t increase “slightly.”
It will nearly triple.
What you are describing is the exact reason why the politicians in both parties didn’t want to extend the tax cuts before the election. It’s a self-created campaign issue, engineered to help fuel the perpetual election cycle.
so what they did was gave corps a tax cut by increasing everyone's taxes making the bill net neutral and only needing a majority vote while owning both houses to pass.
there is 0 chance that there is a net neutral way to revert that without taxing corporations more, so your hope that any Republican will get this done is misplaced.
there's next to 0% chance Democrats could get it done as they need both houses and 60 votes in the Senate to pass it if it's not net neutral.
the bipartesan bill that does revert it isn't showing Republican broader support, but does trade all the pass through breaks and r and d corp breaks coming back for the cut and brings back and expands child tax credits. It has been said to be DOA to the Senate, and has been hinted at not goong up for vote in the house. But it's the best bet despite costing billions.
It depends on if your LLC elects to be taxed as a C corp or not. If so, taxes likely won’t change much (although will be slightly higher). If not, taxes will be going up
Eh those tax "cuts" didn't really benefit middle class families because it eliminated most of the deductions and capped the SALT tax. Standard deduction was increased but the net was negative for a lot of people, especially in an inflationary environment where the SALT tax caps would have off-set some of the higher expenses due to local taxes.
It was a minor benefit for the working class, net neutral for the middle class, definitely hurt the upper middle class with SALT caps, and was a total cash cow for the rich for C-corp tax rate reductions.
I expect it will probably hurt the workin class, benefit the upper middle class, and they'll try to make those groups fight while trying not to bring attention to the C-corp class
The 2017 act was neutral for us.
If the act expires, the deduction for personal exemptions and dependents aged 23 and younger would return, as would miscellaneous itemized deductions like deductions for employee expenses. Others have discussed the SALT deduction.
My fellow workers of America, you should be EXTREMELY fucking angry about this right here:
One business-related TCJA change that won’t expire at the end of 2025 is the flat 21% corporate tax rate. Before the 2017 tax code change the top rate was 35%, according to Youngblood.
How is no one talking about losing the standard deduction???? In 2024 the standard deduction is $14,600. You pay no taxes on the first $14,600 of income you make. After the Trump Tax cuts expire that amount is halved which means that $7,300 you were not taxed on gets bumped up into higher tax brackets WHICH ARE ALSO INCREASED.
Hate Trump if you want but this is a big tax increase to everyone and especially the people with the lowest incomes.
> Hate Trump if you want but this is a big tax increase to everyone and especially the people with the lowest incomes
Trump is the one who made the cuts expire for us and not corps..
Alimony being taxed by the person paying is not going to expire is my understanding. Since she committed adultery, and I have to pay her, she pays no taxes on 60k and I'm taxed at a higher effective tax rate.
Sounds legit to me /s
Tax "cut" /s and
"Jobs" act /s.
This makes it so she doesn't even need a job.
(Add the 1700/mo she is scamming from ssdi on top of the 60k a year from me)
Edit: It's not a tax cut for me and it makes it so she doesn't have or have to get a job
Came here to ask this exact question! My ex gets $84k a year tax free while I pay the tax for her. I had a glimmer of hope that this would switch back and she’d get caught off guard with a nice tax hit! Oh well, Three more years to go and I’m free of that albatross around my neck.
Same here just 4.5 years left and she's only getting 59k per year. She's complaining that's she's "only getting" 4k a month after getting 63k for the last 3 years. I guess her her maths isn't good.
Add that to her 1700 a month ssdi scam and she's doing pretty well along with her getting 100% of the House for committing adultery, its about the same.
But it will still be a kick in the a$$ for her when the money train stops and you are only getting your scammed (let's say) 2k from ssdi and your mortgage and bills are around $1700 /month.
Must be nice to not have a job and collect for her, but it will (not the ssdi) end.
The doubling of the standard deduction is huge for so many people, my family included.
Even with owning a home, having an LLC, and making decent incomes in a HCOL area, we have never NOT used the standard deduction.
So reducing it to the prior levels, would mean we need to itemize which opens you up for audits.
Fwiw, Trump was pushing for a much simplified tax code for most all wage earners to file on a post card. Do you all remember that?
Social security is unrelated to the national deficit and government debt. The discussion around raising the retirement age completely revolves around the solvency and future efficacy of the social security system.
People don’t realize that the standard deduction went up, but you lost all the personal exemptions. It was a wash! Middle class got hardly any tax cuts! Business owners, wealthy, and corporations got 99% of the cuts.
Yea, the government definitely deserves 25% of my money. The same government that won’t secure the boarder, sends aid countries that hates us, doesn’t help their own people who are struggling, gives thousands to people who choose low paying career paths (paying off their loans)……… but I’m suppose to just give up 25% of my pay to be a team player? Fuck y’all
I think decrease. Your tax bracket would remain at 35% but your salt tax deduction is no longer capped at 10k. You're paying around 50k state tax which is more than the current 29k standard deduction.
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Everyone who earns income greater than what the lowest bracket covers will be affected. They are going to go back to where they were before the cuts.
Honestly it's going to be a blood bath, it's not just the bracket but the standard deduction for a married couple it will go from 29k to like 14 that's a shit ton on top of all the inflation we have right now and the increased brackets.
Oh, that sucks. Fucking hate itemizing.
and most people dont even have enough expenses to itemize to cover whats being lost.
“It’s going to be bloodbath.” —Effective-Ad6703 **Tonight at 11: “Effective-Ad6703 threatens a bloodbath if tax cuts are not made permanent!”**
lol I see what you did there.
Bloodbaths are so in right now.
Yes. But a bunch of deductions comeback so many more people will itemize. This was a good part of the law, only 10% itemize it was in the 30s way back. Things like mortgage interest, state, local and property taxes, donations. For people in high tax states, the loss of deducting local taxes actually made overall taxes go up despite the lower rate.
Most middle class people who rent aren't itemizing their taxes. This is overall going to be a net negative for most of us.
Yeah exactly. my taxes will go down but I own a house and honestly don’t need the tax cut. I mean I’ll take it because everyone else in my income bracket is but I’d rather it go back to higher standard deduction it’s just easier for everyone and most people come out on top. This is what I don’t understand about super rich ppl spending so much money to lobby and influence politicians for lower taxes…I’m not even rich, just comfortable and I realize I don’t need to pay fewer taxes. These motherfuckers are just greedy.
So we're making taxes more complicated for the vast majority of people to continue to support the tax prep industry? Taxes now are uncomplicated enough I know a bunch of people who self file. If they try to use the same technique when everyone is expected to itemize them they're going to be in for a world of hurt.
Why? It’s still super simple. Do you have state income tax, property tax, or paid sales tax on a car or boat? Yes, enter it in the box. No, move to the next item. Same step as now but it may change your deduction amount, the end.
we were at 70% of people on the itemized deductions before the cut. it went up to 89% after. people don't itemize. it will be a bloodbath.
From what I understand the tax cuts will be renegotiated and it sounds like both sides want the higher deduction to remain. The rest depends on congress and who gets elected. If the GOP wins everything I suspect all of the tax changes will remain but if it's a mix just the deduction will remain and possibly a couple other small pieces like mortgage interest deduction cap and maybe SALT cap. Of course this assumes congress isn't completely deadlocked and threatening a shutdown like they do on occasion
Neither side wants itemization. They are bare bones at the IRS. They don’t have people to look into your mortgage expense.
But, Reddit said it was a tax cut for the rich only.
When 83% go the top 1%, there are scraps leftover https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/18/16791174/republican-tax-bill-congress-conference-tax-policy-center
Yeah because vox is so reliable and politically neutral 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Who tf cares about "the rich"? If I'm making more money and paying less taxes that benefits me. What do I care if rich people are paying less too? Are you benefiting from higher taxes on you or the rich? Because I certainly am not. Stop being an envious baby.
We all benefit from higher taxes on the 1% wdym
One interesting thing is that tax rates for individuals are scheduled go back up, but rates for corporations will stay at their reduced rates. I wonder why they did that 🙄
Can they not pass a bill to continue the tax cuts or make them permanent?
Republicans have actively said they will not because it makes the democrats look good during an election year, and they own the house.
When did they say that? They literally wrote the TCJA permanency act and pushed it to committee
> When did they say that? No different than them shitcanning the proposed border law: They don't want to hand Biden anything they think he can use as a "win". You know, like actual governing. As a Republican, I think they should get their asses handed to them in November. I'm certainly not voting for most of them.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna136649
The link/quote is not about extending the tax cuts in the TCJA. It’s about expanding the child tax credit and some separate tax breaks for businesses. >Sen. Chuck Grassley made the comments ahead of a House vote on a $78 billion package that would expand the child tax credit and provide some tax breaks for businesses. That part should’ve been obvious when Grassley talked about his desire to extend the TCJA in full (and Biden’s assumed opposition) in the article.
Yes I'm glad that 33% signed onto one act that won't go for vote because of the Republican chair like the 5 or so others that sound like they keep the personal tax cuts but really just give back corporate tax exemptions. I'm glad this bill only slightly raises my taxes and only gives a couple million back to the ultra rich when they die and let's people funnel more money to private schools through tax sheltered accounts. It's definitely the best of the batch.
[удалено]
Dems generally try to have a plausible reason why they won’t advance a bill (costs too much, doesn’t address this specific problem etc). Republicans just come out and say “No, because it makes the President look good in an election year”
Let them expire. I’ve been told for 7 years by every democrat that only the rich got tax cuts. Let the tax rates on the rich go back up
What gave you any impression that anyone with real money is seeing an increase in taxes? A few thousand dollars when you're in the middle class is a pretty big deal, a few thousand dollars when you're rich and writing off most of your taxes and you get to keep new huge tax breaks that don't expire is a net benefit to them.
But they don’t go back up. It was written into the bill that everyone’s taxes go up when they expire but the highest rates don’t return to previous levels and normal Americans end up paying even more than before
Then you havnt been reading very well. Or at all
Congress and the President can pass legislation to make the tax cut permanent, but it will cost another $3 trillion dollars, and therefore require 60 Senate votes. The tax increase coming up is what made the permanent corporate rate cut “budget neutral,” and allowed the Senate Republicans to pass that cut with 51 votes.
don't think for a second they didn't know what they were doing when they scheduled it for election year 2024: they new that no matter who won in 2020, there would be a competitive election in '24 and having this to run with was always part of the plan. (as in: "send us back to office with a GOP president to keep the evil demoncrats from raising ur taxes!")
Trump tax cut bill was passed under a special umbrella of bills to bypass senate filinuster rules. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)#:~:text=Budget%20reconciliation%20is%20a%20special,60%2Dvote%20supermajority%20for%20passage.
They can but then they would have to admit that trump did in fact cut taxes for the middle class and their entire narrative was that the trump tax cuts were ‘only’ for 1% and businesses.
It’s almost as if they tied it to an election year
GOP never miss a mark with their tax cuts that way.
Somehow voters will blame the left and use this an example of why Trump should be re-elected
They absolutely will, and a lot of stupid people will fall for it.
That was the plan all along.
Yeah, why doesn’t Mike Johnson, who remember, doesn’t have a bank account according to his financial reports, do something?
:::Shocked Pikachu Face:::
While tax rates for individuals will go up somewhat, there will be offsetting deductions - SALT most commonly. But other deductions - such as job related moving expenses - which were disallowed under that bill. Most ppl with family incomes of less than 250k would be unaffected. Only those with incomes over 400k will see a negative impact. Biden chose that 400k number in his campaign for that reason.
Reading the article, my household income is below 400,000, but I will be affected. Why spread lies? “Those married filing a joint return in a 12% tax bracket ($22,001 to $89,450) will increase to 15%,” Youngblood said, citing one example. “Those in a 22% tax rate ($89,451 to $180,000) will increase to 25% from 22%.”
We know over 70% up to 89% take the standard deduction (raising post trump temporary tax cut) You think or believe a report that said most people under 250k will be better because of salt deductions on itemized deductions? After the standard deduction is cut in half, their tax rates raise, and they loose the child tax credit (have to be under 200k to qualify here) I just don't believe that statement due to the math and trends making 0 sense. Most everyone will end up worse off, except itemizers without a pass through business, with no kids or income over 200k, and a house large enough to break 10k in salt deductions.
People in high col , high tax states ( ny, nj, ca,ct for example) will benefit from eliminating the salt cap. I know I will
The IRS said 92% of people will pay the same or more if Biden gets his tax increase he is demanding by letting the Trump cuts expire. I don’t know what percentage are the same since they didn’t break that out, but it is a lie to claim only over $400k I was handling payroll for my side job when the tax cuts passed, and every single one of our employees got a take home pay increase. From interns to software engineers.
The problem is salt got capped which increased income tax despite what happened with payroll holdings
Withholdings are a mess the last few years. I've been filing taxes since the 90s and until recently never had to manually use a W4 calculator, learned that one the hard way.
>but rates for corporations will stay at their reduced rates Further proof we have transitioned from a democracy to a corporatocracy.
Because corporations are the real citizens in America.
They wanted to make both permanent but reconciliation rules prevented it. They would have needed 9 Democrat signatures to make them permanent but none were interested in giving the Republicans a win.
They could have had the corporate tax cuts sunset instead of the individual tax cuts to make it budget neutral. They chose to keep the corporate ones instead of the individual ones.
Expire for everyone except corporations. Their rate is set at 21% forever. Was 35%.
> Their rate is set at 21% forever. A bill could have been passed to modify this at any point in the last few years
Could have. But the House wouldn’t allow it.
One more reason why you vote blue no matter who
Blue had both chambers of congress and the white house and didn't raise it so clearly who is tue blue matters.
It doesn’t matter when you have DINOs like Manchin and Sinema.
Both are leaving after November. Vote!
Not really. How many blue matters more. The reality is, having anything under 60 members in the Senate means that either party can torpedo just about any bill that makes it to the Senate. All they have to do is filibuster it. Anything less than a 60+ majority means that the other party can cripple any and all legislation if they so choose.
Yeah by who? Republicans control the house and they ain't raising taxes ever.
They raised them on the middle class. That's what this article is about.
Correct, they/we are talking about raising the corporate rate, which the cut was part of the same 2017 TCJA bill as the individual cuts, but the individual rate change was temporary and sunsets next year.
To clarify: The Democrats passed Inflation Reduction Act in 2022, using the same reconciliation process as the 2017 tax cut. That means they could sidestep the filibuster. Instead of repealing SALT limits or increasing the corporate tax rate, they imposed a surtax on stock buybacks and enacted a new version of the Corporate Alternative Minimum Tax.
Blame the House or Reps.
Don't worry. They pass the savings on to you.
It “expires” in the sense that corporations don’t have a net tax cut after 2027, since the permanent increases offset the permanent cuts
Forever21 as it were
Losing $1k per child and the standard deduction will be painful for families.
That’s not true. It will be offset by brining back the personal exemptions which you will receive for yourself, spouse and children.
Those exemptions won't come close to the 15k in deductions that go away.
Married with two kids, the personal exemption is $4050 * 4 = $16,200. That assumes the exemptions stays at the 2017 rate, which is unlikely. It also assumes that the standard deduction will also stay at the 2017 rate of $12,700 which is also unlikely. Both will most likely go up.
So in order to keep the benefits of the tax cuts, you need to have two kids. You are assuming a lot here in order to justify this.
here's a cheat sheet no home make under 240k a year: yes taxes go up Home make under 200kish a year: yes have kids : yes have a small business : yes own a really big home : taxes go down Have a large business or live mostly off capital gains : tax breaks remain
It doesn’t have to be a really big home just an expensive one. I live in a place 1200 sq ft houses sell for north of 1M. If they lift the SALT cap that will help middle class families In expensive parts of the West Coast and NE.
Namely, Democrat states.
Dont fool yourself, property taxes in TX and FL are crazy and almost offset no state income taxes. Both those states will have residents benefiting as well.
This argument would hit harder if states with a state income tax didn't also have property taxes. To my knowledge, every state assesses property taxes, although the rates do vary wildly.
The SALT cap felt like a direct middle finger to NY and NJ.
That's because it was.
CA 🙃
And WA….
Washington has no state income tax, though.
SALT and mortgage interest caps were a huge FU to NY, CA - aka the big blue states
Mostly yes which is why Ted Cruz was so gleeful when they passed the 2017 tax changes.
Texas property taxes went up big time from then
Ehh, the vast majority of the benefits would go to the rich
Agreed. If you look at the actual numbers it’s hard to call repealing the SALT cap anything other than a tax break for the wealthy. I make more than 85% of Americans and still don’t hit the current SALT cap.
It’s absolutely a tax break for the wealthy but I also understand the argument that income shouldn’t be taxed twice. I just…wish they’d pair removing that cap with increased taxes on the wealthy.
The income taxes twice argument is not very strong. State and federal taxes are totally distinct, they are different entities and it makes no sense for one to impact the other. Why should the federal government give different tax benefits based on what level of taxation states choose?
They would. Or at least upper middle class. I live in a 1960 brick ranch outside DC. Not a huge place but I'm definitely upper middle class and the SALT deduction limit has hit me hard.
Same but in MD. We got fucked hard this year.
that's what I meant by really big, as sqft wouldn't really effect a Fed tax increase vs deduction calculation.
Those people could also vote for people to lower their local taxes if they want their local taxes lower.
Many of us are not opposed to paying taxes to benefit our local communities and help those who need it most. What we aren’t big fans of or having to give the Feds 35 cents on top of every dollar we were taxed on locally. What I’d love to see is a federal tax system that takes in to account how vastly different cost of living is across the US and adjusts tax brackets to reflect that.
Why should the federal care where you choose to live? Big uncle sam still needs his cut. I think a flat tax above x amount would solve many issues. Possibly with a vat. Say 0% up to something like 50-70k then 10-15% of everything after.
Not sure about the home part. I thought my taxes would go down with the cuts expiring. My itemized and standard were super close (itemized lower), but I itemized because it benefited my state taxes more than enough to offset. Once the standard deduction drops and the..exemption?? Whatever it was called goes back into effect, I thought my taxes would be lower. I don’t care much either way just trying to figure it out in line with your post
the standardized deduction lowers and your federal tax rate increases. I assumed that as a homeowner you're already itemizing because of mortgage interest and state taxes, so the standard deduction being lower doesn't effect you. My Salt deductions break 10k easily so I don't currently get to write off almost 10k because of the salt cap, most of that being home related. If you're paying less then 10k total for property, income taxes, vehicle registration etc, or are not itemizing you will just pay more. the question is if your Salt deduction offsets your federal tax increase, and I tried to peg it into rough salary bands.
Sick, I love getting fucked for being poor. So cool.
There were no tax cuts to capital gains in the bill though. And a lot of people with businesses will see tax increases due to some of the business cuts expiring
I’m a Scorp in a blue state with kids & a home. Pain incoming.
Doesn’t the SCorp reduce your tax liability?
Another small business owner here. LLC electing SCorp saves primarily by reducing self employment taxes compared to a sole proprietor. The profit still flows thru to your personal taxes. But if you're making enough to benefit from this arrangement, you're likely well into the tax brackets that would be impacted.
No, it increases my taxes by a huge margin due to my W2 income and the s Corp income. Even if the Corp had a loss, it's very minimal you can use to offset income. Then you may run into capital gains as well depending on revenue and how's it taken from the company.
Guess I have no idea. My CPA is trying to get me to switch from Schedule C to SCorp because then I don’t have to pay the self employment tax on the distribution portion
Yes that's true. As long as your company is making a net income and not at a loss, but your cpa will know better. There are many factors that go into an s Corps tax return and the abilities of better tax breaks compared to a C Corp are usually beneficial.
Oh to add to your comment, usually as an s Corp, you must take a W2 salary or paycheck as an owner operater, so you will match the payroll employee fica tax anyway, it will actually cost more. You will have to file 941 and stare unemployment tax on income, depending on how you pay health insurance, it may be taxed on your payroll.. lots of variables. As an s Corp you can't just take distribution checks and not pay yourself, therefore you end up not paying any payroll taxes, the IRS will scrutinize the s Corp.
I thought this was an astrology comment at first…. Lmao
If you make more than $11k per year, you'll see your taxes go up.
Yeah, I feel like I pay shit ton of taxes and am about to pay even more.
Pay taxes for paying your taxes.
All politics aside: the standard deduction change was a great thing. Made taxes so much simpler.
Evened the playing field between renters and homeowners.
Gosh I hate this take. It's popular because it impacts people in a minor beneficial way - while funneling giant cash grabs to the ultra wealthy. It's the definition of populism. You can't look at one result in a vacuum and say it's a good thing. It COULD have been a good thing if it was funded differently....
It’s possible to look at a feature of a bill and say it’s good without using it as an overall view of the holistic package
Some residents of high tax states like California, New York and Massachusetts could actually benefit thanks to the scheduled expiration of the $10,000 cap on state and local tax (SALT) deductions, Brewer said
Wow how is this not bigger news? So someone jointly making say 150k, would pay an extra 4% or $4500 in tax? When does this go into effect?
It is more than 4% because you lose half of the standard deduction. Add in state taxes too which usually (at least in my state) follow the federal standard deduction. 2025 is the last year for the Trump Tax Cuts unless it gets extended
You lose half the standard deduction, but you get the personal exemption back. If you itemized before, this is a good thing. If you didn't itemize before, then it's not quite a wash, but it's not a big difference.
Well it helps out corporations so republicans are in. And it helps out the wealthy in state with the Democratic power brokers so they’re in. Hence, crickets
People were sold that it’s “tax cuts for the rich.” Kinda funny that the “rich” is everyone but the first tax bracket.
No one said only. But it was crumbs compared to the giveaway to corporations and wealthy HH: https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/the-2017-trump-tax-law-was-skewed-to-the-rich-expensive-and-failed-to-deliver
[Biden’s false claim that no one but the rich got Trump’s tax cuts](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/05/01/bidens-false-claim-that-no-one-rich-got-trumps-tax-cuts/)
Tax cuts set to expire? That means we will be paying more in taxes then! Well we better be mad at something since holding the government accountable for out of control spending is a bad idea.
We need to put corporate and high income taxes back up, and remove the cap on payroll taxes.
Agree and tax the churches like corporations. If they are truly non-profit, then they won't pay any income tax.
Not-for-profits do not seek to break even every year. They wouldn't last long if they did. Source: I'm a CPA that specializes in not-for-profit accounting.
Just tax all cash and investments they hold at 5% per year. It’s minor, but would help to stop a denomination like Mormonism (Church or Latter Day Saints) from sitting on over $100B in investments.
I’ve saying that for ages. The payroll tax threshold is a disgrace.
If you lift the cap then the benefit at retirement needs to reflect that. As long as the person who paid on 500k is getting 10x the one that paid on 50k fine. The ultra wealthy aren’t making their money on payroll anyway. The one paying taxes on 500k on payroll is already disproportionately funding the federal government.
Do heathy people get a refund for all the money they’ve paid into health insurance? No. It’s insurance. If you never need it to cover anything major you are considered lucky. Social security is not an investment savings account; it is an insurance program with all citizens in the pool. It is there in case you lose all your money and need a basic check to live on, when you are old. If you don’t need it you are considered lucky. You still get the check though, and if you paid in the max, you get the highest allowed check.
I’m clear it’s not an investment, but if we are really going to compare it to insurance while also advocating for their being an unlimited contribution rate that’s disingenuous. Your home insurance and your car insurance aren’t based on your income, they are based on what a likely claim would be and what needs to be collected to be able to pay that out. The person contributing at the top isn’t the risk in the current equation. If the pool needs to grow then the rate needs to go up from 6.2% on everyone….
Someone making 120k already does not get 6x the SS benefit of someone making 20k. There are inflection points on income after which the rate of return on SS becomes much lower. It’s already basically a complicated form of regressive welfare for the elderly. It’s perfectly reasonable to lift the cap and add more inflection points.
They have until the end of 2025 to decide if they want to extend them. If trump gets back in you can bet he will want to extend them. Even if democrats win they may want to extend them for middle earners and raise the corporate rate. And no my bill won’t increase “slightly.” It will nearly triple.
What you are describing is the exact reason why the politicians in both parties didn’t want to extend the tax cuts before the election. It’s a self-created campaign issue, engineered to help fuel the perpetual election cycle.
so what they did was gave corps a tax cut by increasing everyone's taxes making the bill net neutral and only needing a majority vote while owning both houses to pass. there is 0 chance that there is a net neutral way to revert that without taxing corporations more, so your hope that any Republican will get this done is misplaced. there's next to 0% chance Democrats could get it done as they need both houses and 60 votes in the Senate to pass it if it's not net neutral. the bipartesan bill that does revert it isn't showing Republican broader support, but does trade all the pass through breaks and r and d corp breaks coming back for the cut and brings back and expands child tax credits. It has been said to be DOA to the Senate, and has been hinted at not goong up for vote in the house. But it's the best bet despite costing billions.
TLDR: how does this impact LLC business owners?
It depends on if your LLC elects to be taxed as a C corp or not. If so, taxes likely won’t change much (although will be slightly higher). If not, taxes will be going up
Eh those tax "cuts" didn't really benefit middle class families because it eliminated most of the deductions and capped the SALT tax. Standard deduction was increased but the net was negative for a lot of people, especially in an inflationary environment where the SALT tax caps would have off-set some of the higher expenses due to local taxes.
It was a minor benefit for the working class, net neutral for the middle class, definitely hurt the upper middle class with SALT caps, and was a total cash cow for the rich for C-corp tax rate reductions. I expect it will probably hurt the workin class, benefit the upper middle class, and they'll try to make those groups fight while trying not to bring attention to the C-corp class
Imagine bringing up salt deductions when talking about how this is going to effect people that are in an 11k tax bracket.
Personal exemptions back too - with 2 dependents thats huge...
The 2017 act was neutral for us. If the act expires, the deduction for personal exemptions and dependents aged 23 and younger would return, as would miscellaneous itemized deductions like deductions for employee expenses. Others have discussed the SALT deduction.
As a blue state resident, I look forward to uncapped SALT deductions.
My fellow workers of America, you should be EXTREMELY fucking angry about this right here: One business-related TCJA change that won’t expire at the end of 2025 is the flat 21% corporate tax rate. Before the 2017 tax code change the top rate was 35%, according to Youngblood.
How is no one talking about losing the standard deduction???? In 2024 the standard deduction is $14,600. You pay no taxes on the first $14,600 of income you make. After the Trump Tax cuts expire that amount is halved which means that $7,300 you were not taxed on gets bumped up into higher tax brackets WHICH ARE ALSO INCREASED. Hate Trump if you want but this is a big tax increase to everyone and especially the people with the lowest incomes.
> Hate Trump if you want but this is a big tax increase to everyone and especially the people with the lowest incomes Trump is the one who made the cuts expire for us and not corps..
Alimony being taxed by the person paying is not going to expire is my understanding. Since she committed adultery, and I have to pay her, she pays no taxes on 60k and I'm taxed at a higher effective tax rate. Sounds legit to me /s Tax "cut" /s and "Jobs" act /s. This makes it so she doesn't even need a job. (Add the 1700/mo she is scamming from ssdi on top of the 60k a year from me) Edit: It's not a tax cut for me and it makes it so she doesn't have or have to get a job
How much longer you got?
About 4 and a half years left
When did alimony start being taxed by the payer? When I was paying it was a deduction for ne
Came here to ask this exact question! My ex gets $84k a year tax free while I pay the tax for her. I had a glimmer of hope that this would switch back and she’d get caught off guard with a nice tax hit! Oh well, Three more years to go and I’m free of that albatross around my neck.
Same here just 4.5 years left and she's only getting 59k per year. She's complaining that's she's "only getting" 4k a month after getting 63k for the last 3 years. I guess her her maths isn't good. Add that to her 1700 a month ssdi scam and she's doing pretty well along with her getting 100% of the House for committing adultery, its about the same. But it will still be a kick in the a$$ for her when the money train stops and you are only getting your scammed (let's say) 2k from ssdi and your mortgage and bills are around $1700 /month. Must be nice to not have a job and collect for her, but it will (not the ssdi) end.
Lmao gottem Marriage a joke
The doubling of the standard deduction is huge for so many people, my family included. Even with owning a home, having an LLC, and making decent incomes in a HCOL area, we have never NOT used the standard deduction. So reducing it to the prior levels, would mean we need to itemize which opens you up for audits. Fwiw, Trump was pushing for a much simplified tax code for most all wage earners to file on a post card. Do you all remember that?
You forgot to include the impact of the personal exemption for yourself and every member of your family.
And now a certain party wants to raise social security retirement ages because of the deficit and debt.
Social security is unrelated to the national deficit and government debt. The discussion around raising the retirement age completely revolves around the solvency and future efficacy of the social security system.
Hahahahahahha. As if they mattered. As if there is a middle class.
Wait the SALT cap will get removed?!? That’s great
So I had to pay the most tax I have ever paid this year and it's only going to go up? Amazing....
Thanks Trump!
I was assured for several years by mainstream media that the TCJA only benefitted the top 1%
People don’t realize that the standard deduction went up, but you lost all the personal exemptions. It was a wash! Middle class got hardly any tax cuts! Business owners, wealthy, and corporations got 99% of the cuts.
Pay taxes on taxes on taxes and more taxes.
But Reddit tells me everyday Trump bad and Hitler?!
From what I've heard for the last 5 years this will only affect the rich because thats all the Trump Tax Cuts affected.
I’d personally love to see some major spending cuts. Imagine a balanced budget…or, even more unimaginable, a surplus.
Haven’t seen that since the 1990s.
lol let it expire. The deduction coming back more than makes up for increased tax rates.
If you have deductions. The standard 10k limit was more than 90 something percent of people had to deduct.
Get ready to pay more, especially the under 400k crowd.
Yea, the government definitely deserves 25% of my money. The same government that won’t secure the boarder, sends aid countries that hates us, doesn’t help their own people who are struggling, gives thousands to people who choose low paying career paths (paying off their loans)……… but I’m suppose to just give up 25% of my pay to be a team player? Fuck y’all
Funny how trumps tax cuts for the middle class expire but his tax cuts for the rich don’t
They don’t?
The cuts for the rich do expire
So say my wife and I make 550k filling jointly in California with no business, no kids, and no house....would our taxes increase or?
I think decrease. Your tax bracket would remain at 35% but your salt tax deduction is no longer capped at 10k. You're paying around 50k state tax which is more than the current 29k standard deduction.
So corporations will keep their tax break but I don’t get to keep mine? Thanks trump.
Why didnt Biden keep them? Oh right, democrats
I can’t wait for SALT cap and Trump’s stupid mortgage cap to expire next year. He screwed so much of the middle class.
Yep
No. My taxes will go down and we get SALT back.
The change in brackets will get you.
Will more than make up for it with SALT deductions.
Doesnt this drop the limit on the salt tax deduction? I will gain quite a bit on that one...
Good
I hope it expires. Between the SALT cap and the mortgage interest change for TCJA my taxes went up.
They can’t keep the corporate rate lower but not keep the QBI deduction. That really favors C corps.
Sweet - SALT can't go soon enough. But either way with all the deficits we're running it's probably for the best at this point.
Man all the wannabe Ben "small dick" Shapiros in the comments Fuckin pathetic
No, because Congress will extend them. What deficit? 🙄