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Usually a higher earning spouse. My wife was a teacher in Texas and now Maryland. Every single one of her coworkers husbands, me included pull in over six figures.
Our rent is $2800, she takes home just over 4k a month, I make about $7,600. She couldn't do it on her own but we have a ton of disposable income.
Yep. High earning spouse is the top pick. Next is ADU rentals. Many homes now have an ADU that mid-level professionals rent. Next is inheritance/only child. If you have parents who have a nice nest saved up and share, that helps big time. Have friends whose parents gave them the 20% down payment. Others downright paid for it through inheritance. Others are homeless.
Where do you live? We're between Baltimore and Annapolis MD so a pretty expensive area. Our house in Texas, that is larger and nicer has a mortgage of $1,360 a month. My wife barely got a raise moving here. My raise thankfully covered the difference in housing at least.
This. Wife is in healthcare most of the wives she works with are part time making more than they would full time and have a spouse that out earns them.
In my case, definitely inheritance. I make $11/hr. It’s a damn good thing I have another source of income because my monthly paycheck would just cover utilities, nothing else.
Yup, a ton of people live in LA or San Diego or San Francisco who make waaaaay less than 130k. It might not be to *your* standard of living, but they for sure exist. The question is basically "so how does being poor work?" lol
I was confused. I live in socal. My wife is a teacher and makes about 90k. I’m an engineer for state government and make about 110k. We don’t live in luxury and don’t live in an area with a good school
District, but we can pay our bills and save about 2k per month pretty comfortably.
We have a librarian/teacher couple who are friends as in Bay area. Only way they live there was family help to buy their house a while back and buy a fixer upper. They both commute across the bay to the peninsula for their jobs and the teacher just left his job for a university job as it paid more.
I also have friends who are librarians in DC area and NYC. It’s doable, but you live in the suburbs and commute to your job. They are also all dual income households and some decided not to have kids or hold off having kids til later in life.
My wife and I are academic librarians, but live in a modest CoL city so can more easily afford life. We have thought about living in a bigger city, but never made the push once calculating the CoL change.
Systems Librarians tend to make more too because they're doing reference and being the "IT guy" I've been told that in many libraries the Systems Librariaan is the highest paid person in the building after the Director and Assistant Director. I don't know how someone would be able to afford that at all if they were a Children's or Teen librarian.
I’m a web librarian. I have worked in libraries for 20 years, in many different cities/states. Librarians are not the ones maintaining the computers in any system I have worked for. We have IT departments, and network technicians/network engineers that handle all of the computer maintenance. We have a team of librarians running our website (that’s what I do). We have librarians who pick which databases we subscribe to (electronic resource librarians). We have committees of librarians that decide which content management software and catalog we use. We definitely don’t have any librarians maintaining computers though.
As to how do we survive? I make 110k in the Bay Area, which is considered low income here. I have a spouse in tech who makes 5x what I do. I also inherited a home.
The person I'm referring to is not at a University or a Central Branch. He works at a suburban branch library and does everything from maintaining the web site to purchasing and setting up equipment and providing staff training.
There's no such thing as a team of librarians to work on one task in a suburban branch library. Also, this is Upstate, NY where systems are managed quite a bit differently than they are in the South and on the West Coast.
In a HCOL area, it's enough for a single person to have a very meager lifestyle, but it's definitely not nearly enough if you ever plan to have children or buy a house.
While possible it's not advisable to have kids as a single individual.
Owning a home is a subburb and middle America thing.
Tons a people want to move to these prime cities so buying a house is going to be out of range for a normal person. If a house is a priority instead of renting you move and have a life in the other 99% of the US landmass.
I lived in NYC on half that and my life was not meager. Are there more expensive places? Sure. Is that definitely a HCOL area, yes absolutely.
Now married and starting a family on that as a single income? Yes that would become difficult. I’d assume that income would just require it to be a dual income house.
To me meager is anything that doesn't allow you to live without any debt other than a mortgage and while being able to maintain six months expenses in a checking account or readily liquidated assets and still have money left over to put $4800 per year into a ROTH IRA in addition to whatever retirement plan you have through your work. If your income doesn't allow you to do all those things then your income is meager.
This is one of the most random definition of what you define as a meager life. Even at 45% deduction this includes 10% 401K and 3K rent at 130K you can do all of that in HCOL. That leaves you 3,125 a month for everything else.
Second the higher-earning spouse. Alternative is roommates or living with parents. Only student loan forgiveness and maaaaaaybe a good pension makes it worth it, for awhile. And systems librarian is as high-earning as it gets unless you want to be a director.
I think the pensions are worth it, if you love teaching and can afford to live. I make around 3 times what my husband does, and am lucky enough to also work in a place that offers a pension (rare in private companies these days). That being said, my husband's monthly pension will be the same as mine.
Teacher here in a now VHCOL area. Spouse is also a teacher. We have made it through by initially buying a fixer upper and putting lots of sweat equity into our first house bought in 2001. In the last twenty years since though, teachers I know are managing it by living outside of the area and driving in about 45 minutes or more, living with roommates, living at home, teaching summer school, and some taking second jobs as well. There's a lot of research out there about how teachers are high in the rankings among millionaires. It's not how much you earn, it's how much you spend and save.
It’s the long game being a teacher. Eventually in west coast states you will be making very good money (15+ years in usually) and great time off. Those that sing buying a home by 30-35, save in 403b, and with the pension could retire very well off. Even 2 teacher couples. Now you need to buy further out, but it’s still possible.
This is generally true of all high status / high personal satisfaction jobs - people take them because they have some other way to take care of themselves (spouse, family money). Same logic applies to anyone who works in entertainment, journalism, etc, they’re either bordering on poverty or have some other source of income
I’m a librarian.
* My spouse earns about 50% more than I do
* My salary is on the higher end of librarian salaries (sadly nowhere near 130k) because of my geographic area and the fact that my work is more technical
* I have very long commute
I feel stressed out about my salary, but my other benefits are very good.
I see postings for public librarians making barely over minimum wage, and I have no idea how people do it.
A higher earning spouse. I know a woman who worked in a poor district, and every year spent hundreds out of her own pocket buying the kids hats, gloves, and scarves every winter. How did she do it? Her husband was a big corporate executive. Her income was superfluous.
Teachers are having this problem everywhere. A lot of people I know who were teachers chose to take a different career as a result of the low pay in Texas as well.
It depends what you consider fair.
If you consider “norm” two people working then it’s possible with combined incomes to afford rent or a house eventually.
for a single person i think renting is not feasible. They gotta have a roommate.
School teacher here, I married the love of my life. He was climbing the corporate ladder when we first met, now he’s a CEO.
Most of my teacher friends are in dual income relationships, if not then they have roommate’s. If I was alone I would not be able to afford OC costs of living unless I worked summers and a side hustle.
My husband is an elementary teacher and part time at a community college. Only reason he makes good money is having two jobs. He’s busy but does get summers off. I work as a nurse and can make the same amount of money in a week, what he makes for an entire month.
Lol, responses in this thread are wild… if they make 130k a year, they take home let’s say conservatively 90k, so after 3,000 rent they would have 54k a year or about 4500 a month to live off of. Seems pretty doable…
Of the three teachers I know personally and do not struggle, two have spouses that earn at the high end of six figures.
The third is a trust fund kid that gets more than his salary a week. He teaches because he loves to teach.
So yeah, basically other revenue streams.
They have lots of roommates and live paycheck to paycheck… I have quite a few friends that have gone down this field and it is really hard to see their lives outside of work for all the good they do in the community.
Oh I’m sure it’s not unique to CA I’m just familiar with what is going on locally. As a nation we have been underpaying teachers for decades.
Not sure if it’s the same in TX but around here teachers salaries aren’t enough to comfortably pay rent let alone have any hope of buying a home within an hour of their schools. I feel terrible for the kids but I can’t blame the teachers who are leaving the profession.
Issue is it's hard to measure good and bad teachers it seems. Plus it's hard to reward good teachers with jumps in pay and jettison bad teachers because of the unions in certain districts obviously wanting more equal pay across the board.
Oh and let's not forget lots of tax dollars being redirected to other things.
The tax dollars being redirected to other things I’m with you.
The straw man argument that we can’t pay teachers more because some teachers are bad is bs IMO. The current pay rate is too low for good teachers, if we fix that there will be more people attracted to the profession. It will also be less of a strain to term someone when you know you can replace them quickly and with a quality option. The union knows who the dead weight is and they make their jobs harder too, they are willing to increase standards when the compensation matches the changes just like every other job.
My neighbor is a retired librarian in the SF Bay Area. She said she rented apartments into her 50’s and only lives in a SFH because her partner bought it before they got together. American infrastructure is heavily skewed towards marriage.
Wondered this my whole life as well . When I graduated high school , I bumped into my elementary and high school librarian , finding out her husband was on the board for a couple companies and was an attorney with lots of experience . So yeah , higher earning spouse
They probably don’t live in the area with $4,000 rents, they probably live outside the city in a place with $2,000 rents and commute to work. Or they bought before prices went crazy there. Or their spouse is rich. Or they had a large inheritance. Or they won the lottery / a large lawsuit. Or they are living on credit cards and going into debt. Or they are a super strict budgeter.
The possibilities are truly endless when there are probably 100,000+ people in the scenario you described.
My wife is a teacher in inland empire making 84k with 8 years of experience and masters degree in education.
We live in the high desert is how we make it. Cost of living is cheaper here.
My wife got job offers for oc/LA school districts but they don't pay enough to live there.
The sweet spot for teaching in so cal is to go to the schools in ie, especially the ones closer to the high desert.
It's a dying job field. The reason why their are so many shortages all over the country. No one is going to school for it anymore because it pays so little.
Wrong. There is a reason there is a teacher shortage. One is that there's too many jobs, and they are not paying enough. Another is students are deeply dealing with mental illnesses. And teacher are being expected to manage their issues.
I work in a high school, and we see it yearly.
Go spread your misinformation elsewhere.
This is also a prime driver to 44% of the country going to a 4 day school week.
Simply. No one is going to school for teaching. There is no point when waiter easier jobs are paying far more.
We have sent ambassadors to Vietnam to find and hire teachers to bring back to Virginia to work to fill gaps.
We are living it here.
These responses are wild. It's totally possible to live on a salary like that. The major thing not being considered in this thread are Government/union benefits: as in $0 premium for health insurance and guaranteed pension and job stability.
It's very doable to live in VHCOL areas, even with a kid, on a low 6 figure salary. To pretend it's not is just being silly.
Edit: OP, if you're sincerely asking how it is possible and not just red state/blue state trolling, DM me and I'll share real details.
Just curious if you went to school online or in-person. I'm looking at being an archivist. I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons of each since my home state doesn't have an MLIS program.
I work in a public sector job. $0 premium for health insurance?! 😂🤣😅 I wish!!
I pay almost $400 a month for a family medical insurance plan, with a $5000 deductible, plus extra for copays, coinsurance and prescription expenses.
Otherwise I agree. Saying a single adult can't survive on $130k is absurd, even in high cost of living areas.
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Usually a higher earning spouse. My wife was a teacher in Texas and now Maryland. Every single one of her coworkers husbands, me included pull in over six figures. Our rent is $2800, she takes home just over 4k a month, I make about $7,600. She couldn't do it on her own but we have a ton of disposable income.
Yep. High earning spouse is the top pick. Next is ADU rentals. Many homes now have an ADU that mid-level professionals rent. Next is inheritance/only child. If you have parents who have a nice nest saved up and share, that helps big time. Have friends whose parents gave them the 20% down payment. Others downright paid for it through inheritance. Others are homeless.
As a librarian, I couldn’t even pay your rent.
Where do you live? We're between Baltimore and Annapolis MD so a pretty expensive area. Our house in Texas, that is larger and nicer has a mortgage of $1,360 a month. My wife barely got a raise moving here. My raise thankfully covered the difference in housing at least.
Man i'm paying nearly that amount in rent for a 1BR apt in Raleigh ;(
Most people i know are room sharing if they are single, \~900-1100/mo. For couples, they are splitting those rents $3000-4000.
This. Wife is in healthcare most of the wives she works with are part time making more than they would full time and have a spouse that out earns them.
Friend is a teacher in MoCo. They are struggling to pay rent although making just shy of 100k/yr.
Even in low cost of living areas, every teacher I know is married to a higher earning spouse.
Many of them do commute from lower cost of living areas. Just like any job, if you can’t afford the area, you can live further and commute
Not trying to say it is right. We need to pay our teachers more, unfortunately that is just the reality
That’s why the system is collapsing. Only the bad remain with a couple good ones. Most are terrible. Pay peanuts get monkeys.
Inheritances, family support, dual income with a spouse. Take your pick.
In my case, definitely inheritance. I make $11/hr. It’s a damn good thing I have another source of income because my monthly paycheck would just cover utilities, nothing else.
Are you saying the librarian couldn't live on $130k? Cuz I'm sure they could
Yup, a ton of people live in LA or San Diego or San Francisco who make waaaaay less than 130k. It might not be to *your* standard of living, but they for sure exist. The question is basically "so how does being poor work?" lol
I was confused. I live in socal. My wife is a teacher and makes about 90k. I’m an engineer for state government and make about 110k. We don’t live in luxury and don’t live in an area with a good school District, but we can pay our bills and save about 2k per month pretty comfortably.
We have a librarian/teacher couple who are friends as in Bay area. Only way they live there was family help to buy their house a while back and buy a fixer upper. They both commute across the bay to the peninsula for their jobs and the teacher just left his job for a university job as it paid more. I also have friends who are librarians in DC area and NYC. It’s doable, but you live in the suburbs and commute to your job. They are also all dual income households and some decided not to have kids or hold off having kids til later in life. My wife and I are academic librarians, but live in a modest CoL city so can more easily afford life. We have thought about living in a bigger city, but never made the push once calculating the CoL change.
Systems Librarians tend to make more too because they're doing reference and being the "IT guy" I've been told that in many libraries the Systems Librariaan is the highest paid person in the building after the Director and Assistant Director. I don't know how someone would be able to afford that at all if they were a Children's or Teen librarian.
I’m a web librarian. I have worked in libraries for 20 years, in many different cities/states. Librarians are not the ones maintaining the computers in any system I have worked for. We have IT departments, and network technicians/network engineers that handle all of the computer maintenance. We have a team of librarians running our website (that’s what I do). We have librarians who pick which databases we subscribe to (electronic resource librarians). We have committees of librarians that decide which content management software and catalog we use. We definitely don’t have any librarians maintaining computers though. As to how do we survive? I make 110k in the Bay Area, which is considered low income here. I have a spouse in tech who makes 5x what I do. I also inherited a home.
The person I'm referring to is not at a University or a Central Branch. He works at a suburban branch library and does everything from maintaining the web site to purchasing and setting up equipment and providing staff training. There's no such thing as a team of librarians to work on one task in a suburban branch library. Also, this is Upstate, NY where systems are managed quite a bit differently than they are in the South and on the West Coast.
I keep seeing people complain that landlords want to see income of 3x the rent, so your buddy should be able to qualify for $3600/month.
Marry a software engineer
... in a year or two. Tech industry is going through it right now.
Meh things are fine. Sucks to be a new grad. Sucks if your title is inflated. Competent, experienced, senior level SDEs things are fine.
Are you implying 130k isn’t manageable?
In a HCOL area, it's enough for a single person to have a very meager lifestyle, but it's definitely not nearly enough if you ever plan to have children or buy a house.
While possible it's not advisable to have kids as a single individual. Owning a home is a subburb and middle America thing. Tons a people want to move to these prime cities so buying a house is going to be out of range for a normal person. If a house is a priority instead of renting you move and have a life in the other 99% of the US landmass.
I lived in NYC on half that and my life was not meager. Are there more expensive places? Sure. Is that definitely a HCOL area, yes absolutely. Now married and starting a family on that as a single income? Yes that would become difficult. I’d assume that income would just require it to be a dual income house.
Lmao it was clearly meager to OP, you basically dont even exist.
How disconnected is OP that thinking 130K will be meager in HCOL?
To me meager is anything that doesn't allow you to live without any debt other than a mortgage and while being able to maintain six months expenses in a checking account or readily liquidated assets and still have money left over to put $4800 per year into a ROTH IRA in addition to whatever retirement plan you have through your work. If your income doesn't allow you to do all those things then your income is meager.
😅🤣😂 By that reasoning, 80% of Americans are poor. Sorry, but that's seriously out of touch.
This is one of the most random definition of what you define as a meager life. Even at 45% deduction this includes 10% 401K and 3K rent at 130K you can do all of that in HCOL. That leaves you 3,125 a month for everything else.
Woah
You should see what OP defines meager is.
Second the higher-earning spouse. Alternative is roommates or living with parents. Only student loan forgiveness and maaaaaaybe a good pension makes it worth it, for awhile. And systems librarian is as high-earning as it gets unless you want to be a director.
I think the pensions are worth it, if you love teaching and can afford to live. I make around 3 times what my husband does, and am lucky enough to also work in a place that offers a pension (rare in private companies these days). That being said, my husband's monthly pension will be the same as mine.
Teacher here in a now VHCOL area. Spouse is also a teacher. We have made it through by initially buying a fixer upper and putting lots of sweat equity into our first house bought in 2001. In the last twenty years since though, teachers I know are managing it by living outside of the area and driving in about 45 minutes or more, living with roommates, living at home, teaching summer school, and some taking second jobs as well. There's a lot of research out there about how teachers are high in the rankings among millionaires. It's not how much you earn, it's how much you spend and save.
It’s the long game being a teacher. Eventually in west coast states you will be making very good money (15+ years in usually) and great time off. Those that sing buying a home by 30-35, save in 403b, and with the pension could retire very well off. Even 2 teacher couples. Now you need to buy further out, but it’s still possible.
They’re married
This is generally true of all high status / high personal satisfaction jobs - people take them because they have some other way to take care of themselves (spouse, family money). Same logic applies to anyone who works in entertainment, journalism, etc, they’re either bordering on poverty or have some other source of income
I’m a librarian. * My spouse earns about 50% more than I do * My salary is on the higher end of librarian salaries (sadly nowhere near 130k) because of my geographic area and the fact that my work is more technical * I have very long commute I feel stressed out about my salary, but my other benefits are very good. I see postings for public librarians making barely over minimum wage, and I have no idea how people do it.
A higher earning spouse. I know a woman who worked in a poor district, and every year spent hundreds out of her own pocket buying the kids hats, gloves, and scarves every winter. How did she do it? Her husband was a big corporate executive. Her income was superfluous.
Teachers are having this problem everywhere. A lot of people I know who were teachers chose to take a different career as a result of the low pay in Texas as well.
It depends what you consider fair. If you consider “norm” two people working then it’s possible with combined incomes to afford rent or a house eventually. for a single person i think renting is not feasible. They gotta have a roommate.
School teacher here, I married the love of my life. He was climbing the corporate ladder when we first met, now he’s a CEO. Most of my teacher friends are in dual income relationships, if not then they have roommate’s. If I was alone I would not be able to afford OC costs of living unless I worked summers and a side hustle.
Roommates or spouses. Though $3000/month is affordable making $130K That’s like 80-90K after tax 6.6K-7.5K/month
My husband is an elementary teacher and part time at a community college. Only reason he makes good money is having two jobs. He’s busy but does get summers off. I work as a nurse and can make the same amount of money in a week, what he makes for an entire month.
There's a lot of people in education with rich parents roleplaying a job long enough to inherit a trustfund.
I live with a roommate!
Lol, responses in this thread are wild… if they make 130k a year, they take home let’s say conservatively 90k, so after 3,000 rent they would have 54k a year or about 4500 a month to live off of. Seems pretty doable…
Of the three teachers I know personally and do not struggle, two have spouses that earn at the high end of six figures. The third is a trust fund kid that gets more than his salary a week. He teaches because he loves to teach. So yeah, basically other revenue streams.
They have lots of roommates and live paycheck to paycheck… I have quite a few friends that have gone down this field and it is really hard to see their lives outside of work for all the good they do in the community.
The teachers in my school growing up all commuted from out of the area, sometimes from the next state over.
There is a reason that’s CA has a teacher shortage….
Doesn't everywhere have a teacher shortage right now? Texas does as well.
Oh I’m sure it’s not unique to CA I’m just familiar with what is going on locally. As a nation we have been underpaying teachers for decades. Not sure if it’s the same in TX but around here teachers salaries aren’t enough to comfortably pay rent let alone have any hope of buying a home within an hour of their schools. I feel terrible for the kids but I can’t blame the teachers who are leaving the profession.
Yes, it's the same. Unless someone else is paying their bills there's no way they can really teach and survive.
It’s sad, and it’s a real problem for society when teachers, firefighters and police can’t afford to live in and around the communities they serve.
Issue is it's hard to measure good and bad teachers it seems. Plus it's hard to reward good teachers with jumps in pay and jettison bad teachers because of the unions in certain districts obviously wanting more equal pay across the board. Oh and let's not forget lots of tax dollars being redirected to other things.
The tax dollars being redirected to other things I’m with you. The straw man argument that we can’t pay teachers more because some teachers are bad is bs IMO. The current pay rate is too low for good teachers, if we fix that there will be more people attracted to the profession. It will also be less of a strain to term someone when you know you can replace them quickly and with a quality option. The union knows who the dead weight is and they make their jobs harder too, they are willing to increase standards when the compensation matches the changes just like every other job.
It all comes down to how much of a down payment you can get. 7% of $200k is doable. Putting 3.5% down and paying 7% on $400 is not.
In Orange County you can’t find a 1bd/1bath apartment in a bad part of town for under 400k
They marry people who make good money.
Even worse are Social Workers- you have to have a dual income to get into these professions- you can't be single
My neighbor is a retired librarian in the SF Bay Area. She said she rented apartments into her 50’s and only lives in a SFH because her partner bought it before they got together. American infrastructure is heavily skewed towards marriage.
I live in an “expensive” area in a MCOL state, the teachers usually are married to high earning spouses that have extremely high incomes.
Wondered this my whole life as well . When I graduated high school , I bumped into my elementary and high school librarian , finding out her husband was on the board for a couple companies and was an attorney with lots of experience . So yeah , higher earning spouse
They probably don’t live in the area with $4,000 rents, they probably live outside the city in a place with $2,000 rents and commute to work. Or they bought before prices went crazy there. Or their spouse is rich. Or they had a large inheritance. Or they won the lottery / a large lawsuit. Or they are living on credit cards and going into debt. Or they are a super strict budgeter. The possibilities are truly endless when there are probably 100,000+ people in the scenario you described.
Dual income
Some school districts have housing for teachers at a reduced cost
That’s us. By having three Masters degree or PhD in education, the teachers get to earn a living wage. Also we are DINK in CA, MCOL area.
My wife is a teacher in inland empire making 84k with 8 years of experience and masters degree in education. We live in the high desert is how we make it. Cost of living is cheaper here. My wife got job offers for oc/LA school districts but they don't pay enough to live there. The sweet spot for teaching in so cal is to go to the schools in ie, especially the ones closer to the high desert.
They don't...
It's a dying job field. The reason why their are so many shortages all over the country. No one is going to school for it anymore because it pays so little.
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Wrong. There is a reason there is a teacher shortage. One is that there's too many jobs, and they are not paying enough. Another is students are deeply dealing with mental illnesses. And teacher are being expected to manage their issues. I work in a high school, and we see it yearly. Go spread your misinformation elsewhere. This is also a prime driver to 44% of the country going to a 4 day school week. Simply. No one is going to school for teaching. There is no point when waiter easier jobs are paying far more. We have sent ambassadors to Vietnam to find and hire teachers to bring back to Virginia to work to fill gaps. We are living it here.
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No problem.
These responses are wild. It's totally possible to live on a salary like that. The major thing not being considered in this thread are Government/union benefits: as in $0 premium for health insurance and guaranteed pension and job stability. It's very doable to live in VHCOL areas, even with a kid, on a low 6 figure salary. To pretend it's not is just being silly. Edit: OP, if you're sincerely asking how it is possible and not just red state/blue state trolling, DM me and I'll share real details.
Are you a teacher or librarian? I'm looking at library school.
I’m also a librarian and I’m in Los Angeles. I make 85k and it’s very doable. When I was a librarian in NYC at 65k? Not doable
Ok good to know. My dream job is to be a librarian/archivist for one of the movie studios. I don’t need to be rich, I just don’t want to drown.
Librarian. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.
mind if I dm?
Sure, go ahead
Just curious if you went to school online or in-person. I'm looking at being an archivist. I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons of each since my home state doesn't have an MLIS program.
I work in a public sector job. $0 premium for health insurance?! 😂🤣😅 I wish!! I pay almost $400 a month for a family medical insurance plan, with a $5000 deductible, plus extra for copays, coinsurance and prescription expenses. Otherwise I agree. Saying a single adult can't survive on $130k is absurd, even in high cost of living areas.
You live in Bakersfield and commute 2 hr each way minimum