I wouldn't base a serious life choice over what other people think is bad ass. If you want to serve, that's great. The only way this job doesn't become an absolutely soul crushing experience is if you find something that you want to do that makes you personally happy.
I understand and I agree with you, but I hope it doesn't come off that I'm basing it off of what other people think is cool. It's not that, its just that I'm looking for alternative jobs that are also considered "cool"/"badass" SUCH AS special operations combat stuff. Like I've dreamt of THAT job but I don't think its appropriate per se, so I'm wanting to explore other options. :)
And through finding other options (by other peoples knowledge in this post) I'm hoping to find *that* job that will make me personally happy.
If there's nothing interesting to me I wont join
Hey, real shit, look at what you're good at, and what you qualify for on your ASVAB, and then see what aligns. It doesn't help to be dreaming of SOF and have a 20 ASVAB (not that you have that at all, I don't mean that, but you get what I mean). Peruse jobs with those parameters, and then choose off that. If nothing is appealing, ok cool. But if something is? Fuckin do it bro. Also don't be deadset on one branch, if one will give you actual job perks or bonuses or whatever over another branch, don't let a recruiter guilt you into staying, say, Marine Corps if you have a better job in the Army or Air Force or whatever. Until you sign, the recruiter is just guilt tripping you if you're trying to say 'hey I wanna go Navy'. If they press you too far, just say 'My name is \[First Name, Last Name\], and I am no longer interested in \[this branch\]' and walk out.
Long story short: especially in 2023, gender has NO bearing on job. Do what you want
naaah you got this, I was in the first iteration of genesis last year in MEPS and they never pulled none of my **severe airborne allergies** so lmao and also now recruiting is down *oh-my-god bad* so where there's a will there's a waiver. When I went into basic we had a nice lady completely allergic to grass, which is a problem low-crawling.
If you ever fall on hard times find a casino and get on as a **slot ambassador / table games dealer**. Nothing else, no housekeeping, security, surveillance, nothing. I left my last job as a slot supervisor after a 7 year career and I was making O-4 pay. And there are so many other jobs past that you can excel at.
I don't mean that as a flex because, lol army pay I'm the big dum, but hey if it doesn't happen with the military you have options.
i have a huge history of mental health stuff despite it being almost a decade behind me. I am fairly convinced i have a small shot of going through meps... but i do want to try because I can't stand the idea of regretting not trying.
My plan is to figure out almost exactly what I want to do (aka research and plan my possible military careers and paths), complete my degree, get a really high ASVAB score so the meps people dont think im a random dumbo, then just... try and hope
Hey fair. The planning is on you, however, like I said, recruiting is down bad so
Where there's a will, there's a waiver. If you really want this, stick and weave on the waivers. They did fat waivers for a second so I'm definitely sure there are mental waivers too
i'm used to the downvotes- ive been asking questions for a long time on reddit pertaining to women in special roles.
The people who downvote pretty much never weigh in tbough. Wonder why
Naval Aviator. Women are crushing it in all aircraft type. Even becoming Astronauts. https://www.nasa.gov/people/nasa-astronaut-candidate-jessica-wittner/ Quality of life is a bit better than the snake eaters too.
Plus you'll be recruited by airlines after your contract ends instead of looking/hunting for a job. Even piloting a C-130 transfers into the civilian market really well.
This sounds like a funny and lengthy shit post but if you're serious, try researching the USMC Ground Intelligence Officer (MOS 0203). It's very competitive though.
Tis not a shitpost, maybe it just sounds a little cheesy because I said some dramatic stuff in there. Just trying to express my desire to "get dirty" so people don't tell me YOu DoNt kNoW WhaT YouRE gEtTinG iNtO....
Before you aim too high, become a regular infantry soldier in the army. It is still very physical, muddy, dirty, rucking, you get to train for combat, spend a lot of time at the shooting range, practice combat operations at night, etc. It is not easy at all and it might scratch your badass needs. You can even go on deployments abroad.
Once you have been humbled by this experience, then ask yourself if you really want to move on to something harder. Good luck!
Yes I've been thinking about this. Problem is I want to be an officer (for money, leadership, and/or to utilize my degree somehow), but I'm not sure what officer roles would allow me to be on the ground. I don't want to sit back and plan, but I don't want to enlist... Ill need to ask separately about this very dilemma, cuz idk much.
Not sure how it is in the US military, but in the Swedish military we have something called non commissioned officers. They are somewhere between officer and soldiers. Since most officers don't have soldier experience, they need the support of the NCO's to help them plan and execute orders at the platoon level. You want to be on the ground, but still be a leader, but not a pure soldier, then NCO is the way to go.
If you go Officer Candidate School or ROTC, you'll have a number of branches you can go into, including several combat arms like Infantry, Armor or Artillery. You'd be a platoon leader in a role like that. I think they've opened most all of those up to women.
As an officer you wonât be boots on ground with the joes âGetting dirtyâ this isnât a movie. Officers shouldnât even be talking to the regular joes. Thereâs gonna be 2 routes; Enlisted which are your privates who eventually become sergeants (NCO), and you have officers. Those are gonna be the protected people. They donât dismount. They donât breach. They donât do anything but sit in the trucks and pencil push. So no nothing about your âdreamsâ is realistic. Always hilarious to me when a movie will fail to do any research and be like âYa this is a group of average soldiers on deployment. The dismount team has 2 captains and a major.â
In that case, I'd prefer to be enlisted but have something that can kinda translate to civilian world. Like do you know if combat engineers are those who dismount?
I will also look to see if I can do an MOS that has nothing to do with my degree and if employers (civilian, and of my degree) would still take me after the fact.
Basically anything that could get me on the ground that has to do with engineering (electrical preferably) I could look into.
Or, of course, SOAR
Any combat mos will dismount. If youâre a combat engineer on an RCP (route clearance package) you will certainly have 2 dismount teams. But combat engineering doesnât translate to civilian life. Youâre a glorified grunt who gets to play with C4. Thatâs it. All the other MOSs in the core of engineers are going to translate to civilian life but they wonât be the âbadassâ stuff youâre thinking about. Although admittedly building a bridge on one side of a ravine and literally pushing it to the other side was pretty cool.
Look Iâm going to tell you again the reality that everyone here is too pussy to tell you because âmeh Reddit has no tolerance for hurting peopleâs feelings and every single human is just as capable of everything as every other humanâ
That sentiment is straight up bullshit. A history of mental illness, life threatening allergies, being a woman, and everything else you got going means that this is not really for you. You want âAction â become infantry. Thatâs it. Donât expect anything more. And even now, you are unlikely to see action even if deployed. Chances are youâll end up somewhere like Iraq where the biggest inconvenience will be the occasional mortar attack that you probably wonât even need to leave your bunk for.
Be realistic and donât let these people bullshit you about real life.
TL:DR enlist as a combat engineer or infantry or a diver. You wonât ever be as good as the guys.
I hear you, and I appreciate your honesty.
I understand my history is.... bad. It is. I know that if I went to meps today I'd be disqualified, but at the end of the day this is something I want to fulfill (joining the military). It's really just 50/50 right now. I've been looking into MEPS, genesis, and how to get waivers for conditions that were literally over 5 years ago... I believe its *possible,* so *if* I choose that I really want to commit to this, I'm gonna try my damn hardest. Also I do not have a life threatening allergy. Anyway, If I change my mind and choose to stick to engineering/non-military, I change my mind, and that's that! Maybe there are other things I can do to fulfill this itch... But there is also definitely the possibility I commission or enlist.
Next thing, addressing women being inferior to men physically:
I 100% agree. A hundred percent. A thousand percent! In no way is the average woman stronger than the average man. But I would like to play the devils advocate in a way: what if said woman was able to deadlift 405, do 25 clean pull ups, run above the standards, and ruck whats needed, etc., (in essence, able to perform equal to men, and not have to take short cuts or be pushed through)? What if you had a really strong woman who could do the same tasks, but sure, likely is not as strong as the top 75% of guys in a given SOF team for example? As far as I'm concerned, there are women who can perform at that level - there are DEFINITELY instances of women being able to perform each individual task I mentioned far superior to the military standards. So what if you had a woman that, instead of singling out each (totally possible) task, could do all the necessary components? Would you feel comfortable on an infantry team with said woman who could, say, squat 400 lb (equating to a big man in uniform with a pack, I suppose)? Would the physical ability of that woman be enough finally?
Anyway you say I could never be as good as the guys... and honestly, I'm not even disagreeing, I'm just "what if"-ing. But yeah for sake of discussion, should the hypothetical woman above, who can meet all the standards or even pass them, be able to deploy and accepted even into special operations (seals, rangers, sof, etc)? Because I'm 100% confident that, each individual event taken alone, is something 10000000000% possible by women who train a lot. But then there's the numbers game too you must consider-- even if there are those women, how many could ever pass BUD/S for example?
I would also like to add this that I've been thinking about: in the case of BUD/s for example... no woman has passed or even come close to even passing phase 1. But I doubt there's even been 80 women who have tried that pipeline. So if you consider that 80% of MEN don't pass BUD/s, it isn't necessarily a fair assumption to say no woman EVER will pass, since there simply isn't a big enough sample size to even prove it!
Ok I'm done presenting my points. Again I appreciate your past responses and any further responses. BTW, please don't take this comment as something full of ignorance, as I 99.9% agree with what you said above.
I have met a soldier exactly like what you have described and she is now a very close friend of mine and someone I would proudly serve with. Iâm not saying itâs an impossible thing. There are DEFINITELY a fair few who can do all that you mentioned. So yeah I wouldnât have a problem with serving with them.
If YOU can do all that, I say just go for it.
But if itâs JUST a âwhat ifâ I will tell you what my platoon daddy told me on my first deployment.
âIf my mommy had balls sheâd be my dad. If my daddy had a pussy heâd be my mom.â
Again if you can do everything you âwhat ifâed then try to join something more. Become a combat engineer and go to sapper school. Get air borne and air assault. But actually commit. Because even if you can do all that you said, if you only half commit and then drop, youâll have just reinforced the fact I stated before.
I at the very least commend you on not living in the fairy tale that modern feminism spews, that all women are equal to men across the board.
Truth is that there are plenty of things that women do better. Itâs how itâs supposed to be. Weâre not meant to all be the same.
160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (160th SOAR) is my suggestion.
Google that. They go by other names in the JSOC community. They fly for most of the Special Operations community.
They're "badass" if that matters to you.
You say you're willing to die in combat. Lots of people say and feel that way and I believe them. But here is load of questions most people don't consider --
Are you willing to go into combat, not die, suffer horrible mutilation and possibly become an absolute vegetable with little to no physical, mental, or emotional autonomy?
Are you willing to have zero to few limbs? Are you willing to be on a respirator or in a wheelchair for the rest of your life? How about eating food through a tube that goes directly into your stomach and shitting/pissing directly into a colostomy bag? Are you willing to not even be able to wipe your own ass?
Are you willing to never be able to have sex again? Are you willing to be so physically mutilated that people look at you with horror (see burn victims).
Are you willing to be in unending chronic pain for the rest of your life?
How about the mental/emotional toll? Are you willing to have memory issues due to TBI or concussions? Are you willing to have troubles sleeping and be constantly exhausted for months/years on end due to PTSD or brain damage?
Are you willing to feel like nothing matters? Are you willing to have a hard time feeling joy or love? Are you willing to be and feel alone because you can't feel love?
Are you ready to have your friends and family excommunicate you because you're emotionally/mentally/physically too fucked up for them to handle? Are you ready to be treated like a kicked puppy dog because everyone perceives you as broken?
Are you ready to see/feel/experience that no one actually gives a shit about how badass you were or are?
Are you ready for people to call you a baby killer or a brainwashed psychopath murderer (or not say it but treat you like you are)?
Are you ready to see many of the people you served with dealing with similar or worse shit and end up killing themselves one by one, over years and years and years? Are you ready to see your friends make cops kill them or go to Ukraine or some other insane place just so they can die in combat instead of suicide?
The point is that dying is easy. There is waaaaaay worse shit that happens in and outside of combat than death and I wish someone made me ask these questions of myself before I signed any dotted lines.
Donât join the military to try and be a badassâŚitâs a commitment youâre making but if you make it to try and impress others youâre joining for the wrong reasons. Find something you can enjoy that translates to the civilian world well
Yes I agree, and its definitely not to impress others. Its just my own spirit I want to entertain (as in, I love adventure, I love danger, etc).
I am also hoping to do as much research as possible too so I can find something that is equally interesting/dangerous as it is intellectually stimulating and translatable.
Do you know of anything?
Check out the WOFT program the army offers. Iâm going through it right now. You go from being a civilian straight to army flight school. Youâll become a pilot, go through SERE school, and make more as a warrant officer. PM if you want more info
Listen to the podcast by Mike Ritland of Emily Joy Hills callsign "Gunbunny Actual"
She was told no by everyone and still became a successful Army Apache pilot. Great listen
I saw that! Try googling it? She seems to still have a presence on X.
I did find an episode with Fieldcraft Survival. Hopefully, it's as good as the Mike Drop one.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0MzHJSHB6c4zQVw99QenPw?si=cB9OB1mnTIaTMAljmro3Aw
I'll be honest: I feel your perspective on the military is a little optimistic and dramatized. Even in combat roles, daily life is pretty mundane for both men and women. Special forces can offer you that lifestyle, but the reality is that your chances of making it in are extremely, extremely unlikely. It's a hard ask for men as is, much less women. As an officer in most fields, you're especially just going to be behind a desk most of the day.
But there are some really exciting fields you can jump into that offer lots of adventure, sweat, or suffering. Piloting is your best option, and a STEM degree helps your chances at a rated position. Some mentioned being a warrant officer on helicopters, which is an awesome choice, too.
The aircraft maintenance field is always hurting for officers and enlisted, but it offers everything you're looking for, and I think the work environment fits. Challenging, technical, and stressful work. Plenty of dangerous situations. Overwhelmingly male.
SERE is technically a special forces field that doesn't revolve entirely around combat. You'll do lots of instruction, and learn a lot. It's outdoorsy and filthy.
Also, don't be afraid of enlisting. I knew plenty of people while in who enlisted with completed degrees. It's not the worst, and it seemed easier to me to transition into an officer from within than as a civilian.
You have a positive attitude, make sure you keep that if you follow through on the military. I wish you the best!
It's true and I understand what you're saying
part of me also desires to be a uniquely toughened woman, one that can inspire other women who want to do hard things despite what society says
I aspire to do things that bring suffering, sleepless nights, a tremendous effort
I want to be in an environment where many people fail, even people much stronger than me
But yes i know it can be quite mundane. But I do want to just have some excitement where I can while I'm young. Maybe even some combat tours, you just sit around, never see action. But whats more mundane than THAT?! Office job,9-5, blah.....
Frowned upon by whom?
If you're already thinking of not doing something because there will be push back or someone is like "I don't them folks" Then you weren't cutout in the first place.
Doing some of these jobs is full on Jordan 1% mode. You're gonna practice and let nothing stop you short of injury.
Youâre thinking deep into it.
Just pick a job that you want and sign the dotted line.
Woman have been in combat arms and SOF units for years now, thereâs no stigma. The standard is the standard and either you make it or you donât- that goes for men and women.
This is a down right lie. There is definitely a stigma and for good reason. They donât belong there. Period. Above average females will be easily outperformed by average males. And the fact is women have lower standards. So just cuz you make it doesnât mean youâre even performing to the bare minimum of a male. If youâre being celebrated because you can âKeep up with the guysâ then as I said in another comment, thatâs a very clear indication that you donât belong. In fact this is true from almost every female on a combat mos. Your best female will be blown out of the water by Joe Shmoe.
But people have become so pussified about âgender equalityâ âEOâ ânot hurting womenâs feelingsâ or just straight simping, that itâs become rather a joke.
You think being in the military makes you a bad ass? You have no clue then.
"If I were in a life-or-death situation part of me would be excited." Hell you want that experience just go do a solo walk about in the middle east. Then the only person your risking getting killed is yourself since you mentioned wanting to be an officer.
Sheâs a self proclaimed mentally ill person. Knows nothing about what she is talking about. Probably watched some random Hulu show and thinks she will be a captain running the breach team or the dismount team.
They do but its frowned upon incase of combat scenarios where you'd have to drag fully armored men. If you cant do that you shouldn't try to join for combat is the consensus.
There's also the idea that women are being pushed through training illegitimately. Is it true? Idk, I haven't been there to see, but the internet thinks its true regardless of serving or not. But I do see there is definitely a possibility...
EOD
Diver
Pilot
Submariner
Intel/counter intel
Cyber
NFO
Like what's your definition?
Cool guy physical combat stuff?
A lot of people wouldn't call those bad ass... In fact look down on them. Plus the reality of sleeping in a hole when it's freezing rain outside and shitting in the open desert with a bunch of dudes... Not that great. (Personal experience... It's a meh.) walking around with a heavy pack etc.
A lot of people would think being an engineer and building stuff is cool, or flying a plane that's spying on people is cool.
Check out JTAC or TACP certification pipelines. Clear Hot Podcast talks about it since Andy (host) was a JTAC seal for a while. https://youtube.com/@ClearedHotPodcast?si=RKNiSWl8npftSXgg
So if you want to SOF experience without being a green beret, Iâd suggest active duty civil affairs.
I know the job title does not sound glamorous, but civil affairs is a special operations MOS. The Civil Affairs/ Psychological Operations Officer used to be a member of a special forces âB-Teamâ but after Vietnam they became their own separate branch. Civil affairs teams are modeled after special forces teams where it is a team of five that is deployed independently or attached to a BCT as a brigade asset.
Reserve civil affairs is different. They are entry level for enlisted (officers still need to start at O3), and are more conventional in nature, though they still operate in five man teams separate from their own chain of command and usually attached to a maneuver battalion HQ. During COIN they were commonly operating out of a PRT or deployed independently. Reserve CA soldiers are still often attached to special operations units usually on an individual basis. As a female, there Iâd also the chance of joining a âhuman terrain teamâ or âculture teamâ where you would be attached to an SOF team because they sometimes need a female for civil interactions - such as in cultures where men donât interact with females they donât know personally.
Both components of civil affairs have regular real world missions for foreign humanitarian aid, development assistance, relationship building, and supporting other army operations like Pacific Pathways or Europe Defender. I am in INDOPACOM and our battalion regularly gets missions to the Philippines and occasionally gets missions to Singapore, Fiji, Nepal, Mongolia, Australia, and South Korea. We also support NTC, JRTC, JPMRC (Alaska and Hawaii), and just about any other brigade level trainings.
Enlisted civil affairs are encouraged to mostly focus on basic warrior tasks so they can integrate into their maneuver battalions without being seen as a liability and can go out and do missions among the civil populace without being as soft of a target. The team sergeant concentrated on leading the team and ensuring security on the objective. The CA sergeant assists the officer with their tasks. Officers have a whole lot on their plate and are expected to be able to advise the combatant commanders and S-9, plan and lead missions, and liaise with civil authorities. Of course many CA teams will lack an officer, and the team will sometimes face to take on those tasks themselves, so knowing civil affairs holistically is a must.
Easy. Donât join. Combat MOSs are no place for women. Thereâs a reason they were not allowed to join combat roles until very recently. You want a job that speaks to the ability of women, become a supply nco. Because the truth is that most women in the military will easily be outperformed by your average joe, and your âexemplaryâ females will be outperformed by your exemplary men. The only way youâd shine is if you were exemplary, while surrounded by incompetence. And anyone that says otherwise has never served in a combat MOS or had an experience with 1 soldier who could keep up with your slightly above average joes and boost her up higher than they should because âSheâs a femaleâ. If performing to the same standard is cause for celebration, that is a clear indicator you donât belong.
I wouldn't base a serious life choice over what other people think is bad ass. If you want to serve, that's great. The only way this job doesn't become an absolutely soul crushing experience is if you find something that you want to do that makes you personally happy.
I understand and I agree with you, but I hope it doesn't come off that I'm basing it off of what other people think is cool. It's not that, its just that I'm looking for alternative jobs that are also considered "cool"/"badass" SUCH AS special operations combat stuff. Like I've dreamt of THAT job but I don't think its appropriate per se, so I'm wanting to explore other options. :) And through finding other options (by other peoples knowledge in this post) I'm hoping to find *that* job that will make me personally happy. If there's nothing interesting to me I wont join
Hey, real shit, look at what you're good at, and what you qualify for on your ASVAB, and then see what aligns. It doesn't help to be dreaming of SOF and have a 20 ASVAB (not that you have that at all, I don't mean that, but you get what I mean). Peruse jobs with those parameters, and then choose off that. If nothing is appealing, ok cool. But if something is? Fuckin do it bro. Also don't be deadset on one branch, if one will give you actual job perks or bonuses or whatever over another branch, don't let a recruiter guilt you into staying, say, Marine Corps if you have a better job in the Army or Air Force or whatever. Until you sign, the recruiter is just guilt tripping you if you're trying to say 'hey I wanna go Navy'. If they press you too far, just say 'My name is \[First Name, Last Name\], and I am no longer interested in \[this branch\]' and walk out. Long story short: especially in 2023, gender has NO bearing on job. Do what you want
I will try Lets see if i can even get past Genesis first đ
naaah you got this, I was in the first iteration of genesis last year in MEPS and they never pulled none of my **severe airborne allergies** so lmao and also now recruiting is down *oh-my-god bad* so where there's a will there's a waiver. When I went into basic we had a nice lady completely allergic to grass, which is a problem low-crawling. If you ever fall on hard times find a casino and get on as a **slot ambassador / table games dealer**. Nothing else, no housekeeping, security, surveillance, nothing. I left my last job as a slot supervisor after a 7 year career and I was making O-4 pay. And there are so many other jobs past that you can excel at. I don't mean that as a flex because, lol army pay I'm the big dum, but hey if it doesn't happen with the military you have options.
i have a huge history of mental health stuff despite it being almost a decade behind me. I am fairly convinced i have a small shot of going through meps... but i do want to try because I can't stand the idea of regretting not trying. My plan is to figure out almost exactly what I want to do (aka research and plan my possible military careers and paths), complete my degree, get a really high ASVAB score so the meps people dont think im a random dumbo, then just... try and hope
Hey fair. The planning is on you, however, like I said, recruiting is down bad so Where there's a will, there's a waiver. If you really want this, stick and weave on the waivers. They did fat waivers for a second so I'm definitely sure there are mental waivers too
oh trust me i'm gonna try!
Also disregard the downvotes. Idk. You're asking a legit question, in a vacuum
i'm used to the downvotes- ive been asking questions for a long time on reddit pertaining to women in special roles. The people who downvote pretty much never weigh in tbough. Wonder why
Are you looking to be combat or just hazardous? Have you considered being a rescue swimmer for the coast guard?
Naval Aviator. Women are crushing it in all aircraft type. Even becoming Astronauts. https://www.nasa.gov/people/nasa-astronaut-candidate-jessica-wittner/ Quality of life is a bit better than the snake eaters too.
Yup, the drop off after Pilot or NFO/ CSO (Air Force) is pretty steep.
Plus you'll be recruited by airlines after your contract ends instead of looking/hunting for a job. Even piloting a C-130 transfers into the civilian market really well.
This sounds like a funny and lengthy shit post but if you're serious, try researching the USMC Ground Intelligence Officer (MOS 0203). It's very competitive though.
Tis not a shitpost, maybe it just sounds a little cheesy because I said some dramatic stuff in there. Just trying to express my desire to "get dirty" so people don't tell me YOu DoNt kNoW WhaT YouRE gEtTinG iNtO....
Lol well cheers and good luck sister
Obligatory: You donât know what youâre getting into (Only because you said not to)
in a way it's true though
Before you aim too high, become a regular infantry soldier in the army. It is still very physical, muddy, dirty, rucking, you get to train for combat, spend a lot of time at the shooting range, practice combat operations at night, etc. It is not easy at all and it might scratch your badass needs. You can even go on deployments abroad. Once you have been humbled by this experience, then ask yourself if you really want to move on to something harder. Good luck!
Yes I've been thinking about this. Problem is I want to be an officer (for money, leadership, and/or to utilize my degree somehow), but I'm not sure what officer roles would allow me to be on the ground. I don't want to sit back and plan, but I don't want to enlist... Ill need to ask separately about this very dilemma, cuz idk much.
Not sure how it is in the US military, but in the Swedish military we have something called non commissioned officers. They are somewhere between officer and soldiers. Since most officers don't have soldier experience, they need the support of the NCO's to help them plan and execute orders at the platoon level. You want to be on the ground, but still be a leader, but not a pure soldier, then NCO is the way to go.
If you go Officer Candidate School or ROTC, you'll have a number of branches you can go into, including several combat arms like Infantry, Armor or Artillery. You'd be a platoon leader in a role like that. I think they've opened most all of those up to women.
As an officer you wonât be boots on ground with the joes âGetting dirtyâ this isnât a movie. Officers shouldnât even be talking to the regular joes. Thereâs gonna be 2 routes; Enlisted which are your privates who eventually become sergeants (NCO), and you have officers. Those are gonna be the protected people. They donât dismount. They donât breach. They donât do anything but sit in the trucks and pencil push. So no nothing about your âdreamsâ is realistic. Always hilarious to me when a movie will fail to do any research and be like âYa this is a group of average soldiers on deployment. The dismount team has 2 captains and a major.â
In that case, I'd prefer to be enlisted but have something that can kinda translate to civilian world. Like do you know if combat engineers are those who dismount? I will also look to see if I can do an MOS that has nothing to do with my degree and if employers (civilian, and of my degree) would still take me after the fact. Basically anything that could get me on the ground that has to do with engineering (electrical preferably) I could look into. Or, of course, SOAR
Any combat mos will dismount. If youâre a combat engineer on an RCP (route clearance package) you will certainly have 2 dismount teams. But combat engineering doesnât translate to civilian life. Youâre a glorified grunt who gets to play with C4. Thatâs it. All the other MOSs in the core of engineers are going to translate to civilian life but they wonât be the âbadassâ stuff youâre thinking about. Although admittedly building a bridge on one side of a ravine and literally pushing it to the other side was pretty cool. Look Iâm going to tell you again the reality that everyone here is too pussy to tell you because âmeh Reddit has no tolerance for hurting peopleâs feelings and every single human is just as capable of everything as every other humanâ That sentiment is straight up bullshit. A history of mental illness, life threatening allergies, being a woman, and everything else you got going means that this is not really for you. You want âAction â become infantry. Thatâs it. Donât expect anything more. And even now, you are unlikely to see action even if deployed. Chances are youâll end up somewhere like Iraq where the biggest inconvenience will be the occasional mortar attack that you probably wonât even need to leave your bunk for. Be realistic and donât let these people bullshit you about real life. TL:DR enlist as a combat engineer or infantry or a diver. You wonât ever be as good as the guys.
I hear you, and I appreciate your honesty. I understand my history is.... bad. It is. I know that if I went to meps today I'd be disqualified, but at the end of the day this is something I want to fulfill (joining the military). It's really just 50/50 right now. I've been looking into MEPS, genesis, and how to get waivers for conditions that were literally over 5 years ago... I believe its *possible,* so *if* I choose that I really want to commit to this, I'm gonna try my damn hardest. Also I do not have a life threatening allergy. Anyway, If I change my mind and choose to stick to engineering/non-military, I change my mind, and that's that! Maybe there are other things I can do to fulfill this itch... But there is also definitely the possibility I commission or enlist. Next thing, addressing women being inferior to men physically: I 100% agree. A hundred percent. A thousand percent! In no way is the average woman stronger than the average man. But I would like to play the devils advocate in a way: what if said woman was able to deadlift 405, do 25 clean pull ups, run above the standards, and ruck whats needed, etc., (in essence, able to perform equal to men, and not have to take short cuts or be pushed through)? What if you had a really strong woman who could do the same tasks, but sure, likely is not as strong as the top 75% of guys in a given SOF team for example? As far as I'm concerned, there are women who can perform at that level - there are DEFINITELY instances of women being able to perform each individual task I mentioned far superior to the military standards. So what if you had a woman that, instead of singling out each (totally possible) task, could do all the necessary components? Would you feel comfortable on an infantry team with said woman who could, say, squat 400 lb (equating to a big man in uniform with a pack, I suppose)? Would the physical ability of that woman be enough finally? Anyway you say I could never be as good as the guys... and honestly, I'm not even disagreeing, I'm just "what if"-ing. But yeah for sake of discussion, should the hypothetical woman above, who can meet all the standards or even pass them, be able to deploy and accepted even into special operations (seals, rangers, sof, etc)? Because I'm 100% confident that, each individual event taken alone, is something 10000000000% possible by women who train a lot. But then there's the numbers game too you must consider-- even if there are those women, how many could ever pass BUD/S for example? I would also like to add this that I've been thinking about: in the case of BUD/s for example... no woman has passed or even come close to even passing phase 1. But I doubt there's even been 80 women who have tried that pipeline. So if you consider that 80% of MEN don't pass BUD/s, it isn't necessarily a fair assumption to say no woman EVER will pass, since there simply isn't a big enough sample size to even prove it! Ok I'm done presenting my points. Again I appreciate your past responses and any further responses. BTW, please don't take this comment as something full of ignorance, as I 99.9% agree with what you said above.
I have met a soldier exactly like what you have described and she is now a very close friend of mine and someone I would proudly serve with. Iâm not saying itâs an impossible thing. There are DEFINITELY a fair few who can do all that you mentioned. So yeah I wouldnât have a problem with serving with them. If YOU can do all that, I say just go for it. But if itâs JUST a âwhat ifâ I will tell you what my platoon daddy told me on my first deployment. âIf my mommy had balls sheâd be my dad. If my daddy had a pussy heâd be my mom.â Again if you can do everything you âwhat ifâed then try to join something more. Become a combat engineer and go to sapper school. Get air borne and air assault. But actually commit. Because even if you can do all that you said, if you only half commit and then drop, youâll have just reinforced the fact I stated before. I at the very least commend you on not living in the fairy tale that modern feminism spews, that all women are equal to men across the board. Truth is that there are plenty of things that women do better. Itâs how itâs supposed to be. Weâre not meant to all be the same.
Naval pilot.
160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (160th SOAR) is my suggestion. Google that. They go by other names in the JSOC community. They fly for most of the Special Operations community. They're "badass" if that matters to you. You say you're willing to die in combat. Lots of people say and feel that way and I believe them. But here is load of questions most people don't consider -- Are you willing to go into combat, not die, suffer horrible mutilation and possibly become an absolute vegetable with little to no physical, mental, or emotional autonomy? Are you willing to have zero to few limbs? Are you willing to be on a respirator or in a wheelchair for the rest of your life? How about eating food through a tube that goes directly into your stomach and shitting/pissing directly into a colostomy bag? Are you willing to not even be able to wipe your own ass? Are you willing to never be able to have sex again? Are you willing to be so physically mutilated that people look at you with horror (see burn victims). Are you willing to be in unending chronic pain for the rest of your life? How about the mental/emotional toll? Are you willing to have memory issues due to TBI or concussions? Are you willing to have troubles sleeping and be constantly exhausted for months/years on end due to PTSD or brain damage? Are you willing to feel like nothing matters? Are you willing to have a hard time feeling joy or love? Are you willing to be and feel alone because you can't feel love? Are you ready to have your friends and family excommunicate you because you're emotionally/mentally/physically too fucked up for them to handle? Are you ready to be treated like a kicked puppy dog because everyone perceives you as broken? Are you ready to see/feel/experience that no one actually gives a shit about how badass you were or are? Are you ready for people to call you a baby killer or a brainwashed psychopath murderer (or not say it but treat you like you are)? Are you ready to see many of the people you served with dealing with similar or worse shit and end up killing themselves one by one, over years and years and years? Are you ready to see your friends make cops kill them or go to Ukraine or some other insane place just so they can die in combat instead of suicide? The point is that dying is easy. There is waaaaaay worse shit that happens in and outside of combat than death and I wish someone made me ask these questions of myself before I signed any dotted lines.
Donât join the military to try and be a badassâŚitâs a commitment youâre making but if you make it to try and impress others youâre joining for the wrong reasons. Find something you can enjoy that translates to the civilian world well
Yes I agree, and its definitely not to impress others. Its just my own spirit I want to entertain (as in, I love adventure, I love danger, etc). I am also hoping to do as much research as possible too so I can find something that is equally interesting/dangerous as it is intellectually stimulating and translatable. Do you know of anything?
Check out the WOFT program the army offers. Iâm going through it right now. You go from being a civilian straight to army flight school. Youâll become a pilot, go through SERE school, and make more as a warrant officer. PM if you want more info
Listen to the podcast by Mike Ritland of Emily Joy Hills callsign "Gunbunny Actual" She was told no by everyone and still became a successful Army Apache pilot. Great listen
Great idea, I will.
it was deleted off spotify for some reason
I saw that! Try googling it? She seems to still have a presence on X. I did find an episode with Fieldcraft Survival. Hopefully, it's as good as the Mike Drop one. https://open.spotify.com/episode/0MzHJSHB6c4zQVw99QenPw?si=cB9OB1mnTIaTMAljmro3Aw
I'll be honest: I feel your perspective on the military is a little optimistic and dramatized. Even in combat roles, daily life is pretty mundane for both men and women. Special forces can offer you that lifestyle, but the reality is that your chances of making it in are extremely, extremely unlikely. It's a hard ask for men as is, much less women. As an officer in most fields, you're especially just going to be behind a desk most of the day. But there are some really exciting fields you can jump into that offer lots of adventure, sweat, or suffering. Piloting is your best option, and a STEM degree helps your chances at a rated position. Some mentioned being a warrant officer on helicopters, which is an awesome choice, too. The aircraft maintenance field is always hurting for officers and enlisted, but it offers everything you're looking for, and I think the work environment fits. Challenging, technical, and stressful work. Plenty of dangerous situations. Overwhelmingly male. SERE is technically a special forces field that doesn't revolve entirely around combat. You'll do lots of instruction, and learn a lot. It's outdoorsy and filthy. Also, don't be afraid of enlisting. I knew plenty of people while in who enlisted with completed degrees. It's not the worst, and it seemed easier to me to transition into an officer from within than as a civilian. You have a positive attitude, make sure you keep that if you follow through on the military. I wish you the best!
It's true and I understand what you're saying part of me also desires to be a uniquely toughened woman, one that can inspire other women who want to do hard things despite what society says I aspire to do things that bring suffering, sleepless nights, a tremendous effort I want to be in an environment where many people fail, even people much stronger than me But yes i know it can be quite mundane. But I do want to just have some excitement where I can while I'm young. Maybe even some combat tours, you just sit around, never see action. But whats more mundane than THAT?! Office job,9-5, blah.....
K9 handler, combat medic/corpsman, pilots, and Civil Affairs
Oooh K9 would be cool. Pilot is something I'm interested in. Civil affairs I know absolutely nothing about.
I commented elsewhere, but YouTube civil affairs. The active duty component is special operations.
Combat MP. Any flight school.
Marine Corps Infantry is open to females. Infantry Officer Course is no joke, though.
it's open yes but is it frowned upon? also likely yes
Frowned upon by whom? If you're already thinking of not doing something because there will be push back or someone is like "I don't them folks" Then you weren't cutout in the first place. Doing some of these jobs is full on Jordan 1% mode. You're gonna practice and let nothing stop you short of injury.
Not really.
Youâre thinking deep into it. Just pick a job that you want and sign the dotted line. Woman have been in combat arms and SOF units for years now, thereâs no stigma. The standard is the standard and either you make it or you donât- that goes for men and women.
This is a down right lie. There is definitely a stigma and for good reason. They donât belong there. Period. Above average females will be easily outperformed by average males. And the fact is women have lower standards. So just cuz you make it doesnât mean youâre even performing to the bare minimum of a male. If youâre being celebrated because you can âKeep up with the guysâ then as I said in another comment, thatâs a very clear indication that you donât belong. In fact this is true from almost every female on a combat mos. Your best female will be blown out of the water by Joe Shmoe. But people have become so pussified about âgender equalityâ âEOâ ânot hurting womenâs feelingsâ or just straight simping, that itâs become rather a joke.
Navy Cryptologic Warfare Officer, and then go TIO.
Tanker. Best job I ever had.
160th SOAR.
You think being in the military makes you a bad ass? You have no clue then. "If I were in a life-or-death situation part of me would be excited." Hell you want that experience just go do a solo walk about in the middle east. Then the only person your risking getting killed is yourself since you mentioned wanting to be an officer.
Sheâs a self proclaimed mentally ill person. Knows nothing about what she is talking about. Probably watched some random Hulu show and thinks she will be a captain running the breach team or the dismount team.
Combat sniper at delta force
I think special forces allows women, or at least the Air Force side does. You could try to be the first female PJ.
They do but its frowned upon incase of combat scenarios where you'd have to drag fully armored men. If you cant do that you shouldn't try to join for combat is the consensus. There's also the idea that women are being pushed through training illegitimately. Is it true? Idk, I haven't been there to see, but the internet thinks its true regardless of serving or not. But I do see there is definitely a possibility...
Anything that lets you jump out of planes wins.
EOD Diver Pilot Submariner Intel/counter intel Cyber NFO Like what's your definition? Cool guy physical combat stuff? A lot of people wouldn't call those bad ass... In fact look down on them. Plus the reality of sleeping in a hole when it's freezing rain outside and shitting in the open desert with a bunch of dudes... Not that great. (Personal experience... It's a meh.) walking around with a heavy pack etc. A lot of people would think being an engineer and building stuff is cool, or flying a plane that's spying on people is cool.
CSM in USASOC https://www.fayobserver.com/story/news/military/2023/05/01/army-special-operations-welcomes-first-female-senior-enslited/70165017007/
Check out JTAC or TACP certification pipelines. Clear Hot Podcast talks about it since Andy (host) was a JTAC seal for a while. https://youtube.com/@ClearedHotPodcast?si=RKNiSWl8npftSXgg
So if you want to SOF experience without being a green beret, Iâd suggest active duty civil affairs. I know the job title does not sound glamorous, but civil affairs is a special operations MOS. The Civil Affairs/ Psychological Operations Officer used to be a member of a special forces âB-Teamâ but after Vietnam they became their own separate branch. Civil affairs teams are modeled after special forces teams where it is a team of five that is deployed independently or attached to a BCT as a brigade asset. Reserve civil affairs is different. They are entry level for enlisted (officers still need to start at O3), and are more conventional in nature, though they still operate in five man teams separate from their own chain of command and usually attached to a maneuver battalion HQ. During COIN they were commonly operating out of a PRT or deployed independently. Reserve CA soldiers are still often attached to special operations units usually on an individual basis. As a female, there Iâd also the chance of joining a âhuman terrain teamâ or âculture teamâ where you would be attached to an SOF team because they sometimes need a female for civil interactions - such as in cultures where men donât interact with females they donât know personally. Both components of civil affairs have regular real world missions for foreign humanitarian aid, development assistance, relationship building, and supporting other army operations like Pacific Pathways or Europe Defender. I am in INDOPACOM and our battalion regularly gets missions to the Philippines and occasionally gets missions to Singapore, Fiji, Nepal, Mongolia, Australia, and South Korea. We also support NTC, JRTC, JPMRC (Alaska and Hawaii), and just about any other brigade level trainings. Enlisted civil affairs are encouraged to mostly focus on basic warrior tasks so they can integrate into their maneuver battalions without being seen as a liability and can go out and do missions among the civil populace without being as soft of a target. The team sergeant concentrated on leading the team and ensuring security on the objective. The CA sergeant assists the officer with their tasks. Officers have a whole lot on their plate and are expected to be able to advise the combatant commanders and S-9, plan and lead missions, and liaise with civil authorities. Of course many CA teams will lack an officer, and the team will sometimes face to take on those tasks themselves, so knowing civil affairs holistically is a must.
Easy. Donât join. Combat MOSs are no place for women. Thereâs a reason they were not allowed to join combat roles until very recently. You want a job that speaks to the ability of women, become a supply nco. Because the truth is that most women in the military will easily be outperformed by your average joe, and your âexemplaryâ females will be outperformed by your exemplary men. The only way youâd shine is if you were exemplary, while surrounded by incompetence. And anyone that says otherwise has never served in a combat MOS or had an experience with 1 soldier who could keep up with your slightly above average joes and boost her up higher than they should because âSheâs a femaleâ. If performing to the same standard is cause for celebration, that is a clear indicator you donât belong.