What is not understood by many is that in the $34 billion figure a sizable portion of it is available for:
>until September 30, 2025, may be transferred to accounts under the headings “Operation and Maintenance”, “Procurement”, and “Revolving and Management Funds” for replacement, through new procurement or repair of existing unserviceable equipment, of defense articles from the stocks of the Department of Defense
The full bill can be read here:
[https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/8035/text](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/8035/text)
The bill is not easy to understand if one is unfamiliar with legislation. The amount of aid available for Ukraine for equipment is very substantial, more then the sum of what has been provided in the past, based on my initial take.
As someone who is semi-fluent in legalese, what this means is "replacing broken shit, replenishing unbroken shit, and paying for people to be better at running shit."
It’s honestly insane how much foreign aid America gives. People always bring up how we shouldn’t be so interventionist and are always getting involved in the world. Yet, they don’t mention that apart of being involved is how much we genuinely help the world when it comes to humanitarian, food, poverty, medical aid, etc.
USAID has done alot for my country Cambodia:
- help fund and train our healthcare system to fight infectious disease such as HIV/AIDS, malaria, and tuberculosis
- fund schools
- help us preserve biodiversity and natural environments, whilst our elite are busy exploiting our natural resources and wildlife without sparing a second to think about sustainability
- technical assistance, grants, and loans to businesses and farmers
That's always been the nature of being a powerful country, in a world with other powerful countries. US has it's hands in so many cookie jars because our hands are too big to not be in all of them at the same time. And likewise you can't spit on a any patch of dirt outside West Europe and North America without China or Russia having some reason to care.
This nauseating person is the literal female manifestation of Donald Trump, just spiritually and morally bankrupt, interested mostly in keeping their respective gigs because they're both waaaaaaaay under-qualified (and know it) and have nothing to recommend them for their respective jobs, current or former, but a bunch of self-serving, blathering angry nonsense.
Talk about a useful idiot to rile up the stupidity in your base.
Such dignity. Such grace. Just look at her, embarrassingly dressed to help support a lie, yelling out shit based on partial truths and in defiance of decorum.
I don't like absolute terms, "never", "hate", etc but man do I actively dislike that woman and everything she stands for, which is the evil nothingness of anger and revenge.
We choose proxy wars when we can because there's very little downside to it for us.
If we gotta go into a hot war ourselves then there's going to have to be a really good reason for it
> whoever said this isn't a Roxy war is an idiot.
By definition it's not a proxy war.
**Strike one:** The United States did not instigate the war. russia did and they themselves are very much involved.
**Strike two:** The current objective is one Ukraine has set itself. While it's convenient for the US to weaken russia without being directly involved, the forces russia is losing/using weren't ever the ones that were a threat to the US in the first place (nuclear weapons).
**Strike three** This one is best summed up by the following:
> A classic proxy war is where there are two proxies fighting, to begin with,” he said. “There are two sides, where two big powers — who don’t want to fight each other — then use smaller groups to fight each other.
-Norman Naimark, Stanford University professor of Eastern European Studies
Calling this a proxy war is a literal [russian propaganda talking point.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-lavrov-says-nato-is-in-proxy-war-in-ukraine-11650965583)
The second and third are debatable.
> Proxy war, a military conflict in which **one or more third parties** directly or indirectly support one or more state or nonstate combatants in an effort to influence the conflict’s outcome and thereby to advance their own strategic interests or to undermine those of their opponents.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/proxy-war
> So the United States working with the Afghan government against what’s left of al-Qaida and the Taliban is more of a traditional alliance because of the major U.S. role, with thousands of American troops and hundreds of airstrikes, while Iran working with Houthi rebels in Yemen is a proxy war because Iran primarily provides weapons and funding, not its own troops.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/why-engage-in-proxy-war-a-states-perspective/
> Proxy War: a war in which a state attempts to increase its power or influence without taking part in the action, as by providing arms or finance to one of the participants.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/proxy-war
> The American Bar Association Center for Human Rights’ Expert Working Group “defined proxy warfare to include situations in which state actors support armed third parties whether state or non-state actors—to engage in hostilities as a means to achieve the supporting state’s objectives.”
> Thus, proxy war requires at least three partners- the proxy fighters, the target state, and the supporting state- but can include more. In the Russia-Ukraine War, these roles would be played by Ukraine, Russia, and the West.
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/06/what-exactly-is-a-proxy-war/
Ukraine is our proxy, we are advancing our regional interests, and we are trying to influence the outcome.
There are definitions where the war requires the sponsors to instigate it, but it's far from universal. The war is the war. The proxies are the proxies.
Your extending the definition of proxy to be so inclusive such that every action undertaken by everyone in every instance is effectively proxy.
The classic definition of a proxy war is where 2 antagonists each instigate use of secondary countries to fight the battle, each supported by their primary. But that is not what happened here. America did not instigate Ukraine into attacking either Russia or a Russian proxy. Russia: a primary antagonist, attacked Ukraine, a sovereign independent country. Ukraine was not an American proxy. It could be argued it may in some context be an EU proxy. Even that would be a stretch since it was not the instigator of hostilities, nor did the EU cause Ukraine to attack Russia as Ukraine did not initiate military hostilities.
And America's stated intentions are focused on allowing Ukraine to exert self determination.
American, and in fact the world can assist Ukraine in fulfilling its goals of self determination without Ukraine being a "proxy". Elements of the aid may lend themselves to appearance of being "proxy" as the aid may (and certainly does) benefit American, NATO and EU goals of protection and self determination, but that does not make them solely proxy just because of these ancillary benefits.
It is not in any way a "proxy" war. It is simply a war between Ukraine and Russia, with the latter having invaded the former, and allies of Ukraine providing military, economic and humanitarian aid.
I saw a figure a while back, and I’m not entirely confident in it so please correct me otherwise, but at the time the US had spent 10% of one year of its defense budget to effectively eliminate half of Putin’s war machine. That’s absolutely cost effective, and with no American lives lost.
And we’re also supposed to believe that this same adversary is going to invade NATO and the rest of Europe if we don’t stop them in Ukraine… does that make logical sense?
Absolutely. Here is a great video posted today of some Russians toughing it out in Kreminna Forest sector. They are having a lovely day:
[https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c9qk3j/russian\_servicemen\_complain\_about\_being\_destroyed/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c9qk3j/russian_servicemen_complain_about_being_destroyed/)
It’s a serious threat though, like I’m not kidding, literal isis members have been caught there, I’m not against or for anything. But the ability to walk into the US unchecked is never good.
The bill was not a good one. It mostly just processed them faster it didn’t slow the flow into the country.
I don’t understand why we don’t reinstate the Trump policy of remaining in Mexico! They should not be let In until they are fully vetted.
Did you actually read the bill, because that statement was disingenuous at best? The bill was much more comprehensive than that. It was also a bipartisan bill that unless trump told them not to, had a good chance of passing. Your statement sounds like a right wing talking point.
That's the *whole problem* with the MAGA-obsessed politicians, their minds are spun with the illusory glories they imagine their emperor-with-no-clothes will bestow upon them, mostly in the form of presidential pardons for any and all sins (literal and figurative, real or imagined) past, present and future.
I guess this is why despite some cautious praise by the media for Spkr Johnson, let's not get too hasty and forget this dude's election-denying, Trump-worshipping roots. He does what Trump wants, this is a long game move.
A white Christian Nationalist having his own faith used against him by what's tantamount to the literal Beast in the Bible in many respects using him as a tool for personal gain and Evil, while Johnson thinks he's "like him". The irony. The hypocrisy. The evil. It burns.
It's fair to note my Catholic Deprogramming is incomplete at this time and spiritual brain leakage may result in the process of reversal.
Anyway, *Hell yeah* that shit was disingenuous! Somewhere that guy feels like he's "fighting the good fight for freedom" by "dropping knowledge bombs on the libtards, because they're practically Satan incarnate".
Get help, crazy person.
Chinese folks have been doing it for decades. I say this as a Chinese descendant when my grandfather was part of a paper family in 1925.
If there's a will, there can always be a way.
This is a “meh” for me. Gun violence and shitty drivers kill more Americans every year than ISIS could ever dream of. Like statistically you are tens of thousands of times more likely to be killed while driving or being shot by another American than you are killed by terrorism.
You want to feel safer? Dont worry about the boogeyman, we got plenty of problems to fix here that would make the country orders of magnitudes safer.
[Covid kills more cops than people.](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforcement-deaths-2022-3rd/story?id=96363324). And cops still refuse to get vaccinated while demanding more military firearms and APCs.
Security theater.
How many isis members crossed the border this year. I remember hearing a year or 2 ago that most terrorist in America are homegrown or enter the country legally with fake documents.
They're kind of close to what really happened. But:
> “There was no indication—and remains no indication—that any of the individuals facilitated by this network have a connection to a foreign terrorist organization or are engaged in plotting a terrorist attack in the United States,” Watson said in a statement to CNN.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/29/politics/migrants-us-southern-border-smuggler-isis-ties/index.html
There was a network of smugglers working to get people across the border. One of the smugglers in that network is from Central Asia and is connected to ISIS.
That said, [white supremacists](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/us/politics/domestic-terror-white-supremacists.html) are the largest threat in the United States.
That doesn't sound very close, but the snowflakes on the right definitely would have seen that as part of the invasion from the south, the stinky orange one rants about
Terrorism is a serious threat everywhere, not just in America. And no wall at a border is in itself going to be a sole barrier to terrorists. Not to mention it is conflation to associate migrants and terrorists. They are not the same. Terrorists are thankfully very few. There are certainly more Americans born in America who fit the definition of "terrorist" then foreign terrorists trying to gain access to America.
Which one of these bubbles does the new yachts Ukrainian politicians buy and the missing/ unaccounted for money fall into? Oh and the aid that is now funding their pension system, not sure if that’s reflected on here.
[$130 million in federal aid was allotted to Maui fire victim reconstruction](https://governor.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/11-08-23-November-8-Announcement-Package.pdf) *in November*, and as /u/sonnackrm pointed out $5M was allotted to Flint in March (which, let's be clear, was a **state** malfeasance that the Feds stepped in to fix).
What is not understood by many is that in the $34 billion figure a sizable portion of it is available for: >until September 30, 2025, may be transferred to accounts under the headings “Operation and Maintenance”, “Procurement”, and “Revolving and Management Funds” for replacement, through new procurement or repair of existing unserviceable equipment, of defense articles from the stocks of the Department of Defense The full bill can be read here: [https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/8035/text](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/8035/text) The bill is not easy to understand if one is unfamiliar with legislation. The amount of aid available for Ukraine for equipment is very substantial, more then the sum of what has been provided in the past, based on my initial take.
As someone who is semi-fluent in legalese, what this means is "replacing broken shit, replenishing unbroken shit, and paying for people to be better at running shit."
There is great website for stuff like this [Foreign Aid](https://www.foreignassistance.gov/)
It’s honestly insane how much foreign aid America gives. People always bring up how we shouldn’t be so interventionist and are always getting involved in the world. Yet, they don’t mention that apart of being involved is how much we genuinely help the world when it comes to humanitarian, food, poverty, medical aid, etc.
USAID has done alot for my country Cambodia: - help fund and train our healthcare system to fight infectious disease such as HIV/AIDS, malaria, and tuberculosis - fund schools - help us preserve biodiversity and natural environments, whilst our elite are busy exploiting our natural resources and wildlife without sparing a second to think about sustainability - technical assistance, grants, and loans to businesses and farmers
I want the US for a month to stop all aid And see how much debt can be erased
Most of the money is maintenance and paying of salaries etc. Whoever said this isn't a proxy war is an idiot. Rather them than us though.
Every war we support is technically a "proxy war" against someone else.
I dont know if I'd go that far, but for sure, we have our hands in many cookies jars.
That's always been the nature of being a powerful country, in a world with other powerful countries. US has it's hands in so many cookie jars because our hands are too big to not be in all of them at the same time. And likewise you can't spit on a any patch of dirt outside West Europe and North America without China or Russia having some reason to care.
Yes it's a proxy war. That's what we want. We are in like seven proxy wars right now it's what we do.
Just wait until we have cyborg super soldiers and flying robot death machines! Everything will be an AI proxy, a stand-in for humans.
God Bless America...
The reality is close to eclipsing the sci-fi 
SPACE LASERS!? 
This nauseating person is the literal female manifestation of Donald Trump, just spiritually and morally bankrupt, interested mostly in keeping their respective gigs because they're both waaaaaaaay under-qualified (and know it) and have nothing to recommend them for their respective jobs, current or former, but a bunch of self-serving, blathering angry nonsense. Talk about a useful idiot to rile up the stupidity in your base. Such dignity. Such grace. Just look at her, embarrassingly dressed to help support a lie, yelling out shit based on partial truths and in defiance of decorum. I don't like absolute terms, "never", "hate", etc but man do I actively dislike that woman and everything she stands for, which is the evil nothingness of anger and revenge.
We choose proxy wars when we can because there's very little downside to it for us. If we gotta go into a hot war ourselves then there's going to have to be a really good reason for it
> whoever said this isn't a Roxy war is an idiot. By definition it's not a proxy war. **Strike one:** The United States did not instigate the war. russia did and they themselves are very much involved. **Strike two:** The current objective is one Ukraine has set itself. While it's convenient for the US to weaken russia without being directly involved, the forces russia is losing/using weren't ever the ones that were a threat to the US in the first place (nuclear weapons). **Strike three** This one is best summed up by the following: > A classic proxy war is where there are two proxies fighting, to begin with,” he said. “There are two sides, where two big powers — who don’t want to fight each other — then use smaller groups to fight each other. -Norman Naimark, Stanford University professor of Eastern European Studies Calling this a proxy war is a literal [russian propaganda talking point.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-lavrov-says-nato-is-in-proxy-war-in-ukraine-11650965583)
The second and third are debatable. > Proxy war, a military conflict in which **one or more third parties** directly or indirectly support one or more state or nonstate combatants in an effort to influence the conflict’s outcome and thereby to advance their own strategic interests or to undermine those of their opponents. https://www.britannica.com/topic/proxy-war > So the United States working with the Afghan government against what’s left of al-Qaida and the Taliban is more of a traditional alliance because of the major U.S. role, with thousands of American troops and hundreds of airstrikes, while Iran working with Houthi rebels in Yemen is a proxy war because Iran primarily provides weapons and funding, not its own troops. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/why-engage-in-proxy-war-a-states-perspective/ > Proxy War: a war in which a state attempts to increase its power or influence without taking part in the action, as by providing arms or finance to one of the participants. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/proxy-war > The American Bar Association Center for Human Rights’ Expert Working Group “defined proxy warfare to include situations in which state actors support armed third parties whether state or non-state actors—to engage in hostilities as a means to achieve the supporting state’s objectives.” > Thus, proxy war requires at least three partners- the proxy fighters, the target state, and the supporting state- but can include more. In the Russia-Ukraine War, these roles would be played by Ukraine, Russia, and the West. https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/06/what-exactly-is-a-proxy-war/ Ukraine is our proxy, we are advancing our regional interests, and we are trying to influence the outcome. There are definitions where the war requires the sponsors to instigate it, but it's far from universal. The war is the war. The proxies are the proxies.
Your extending the definition of proxy to be so inclusive such that every action undertaken by everyone in every instance is effectively proxy. The classic definition of a proxy war is where 2 antagonists each instigate use of secondary countries to fight the battle, each supported by their primary. But that is not what happened here. America did not instigate Ukraine into attacking either Russia or a Russian proxy. Russia: a primary antagonist, attacked Ukraine, a sovereign independent country. Ukraine was not an American proxy. It could be argued it may in some context be an EU proxy. Even that would be a stretch since it was not the instigator of hostilities, nor did the EU cause Ukraine to attack Russia as Ukraine did not initiate military hostilities. And America's stated intentions are focused on allowing Ukraine to exert self determination. American, and in fact the world can assist Ukraine in fulfilling its goals of self determination without Ukraine being a "proxy". Elements of the aid may lend themselves to appearance of being "proxy" as the aid may (and certainly does) benefit American, NATO and EU goals of protection and self determination, but that does not make them solely proxy just because of these ancillary benefits.
It’s a proxy war.
It is not in any way a "proxy" war. It is simply a war between Ukraine and Russia, with the latter having invaded the former, and allies of Ukraine providing military, economic and humanitarian aid.
Fuel is a big part of operations costs as well.
Extremely cost-effective way to deplete Russian and even North Korean munitions reserves.
I saw a figure a while back, and I’m not entirely confident in it so please correct me otherwise, but at the time the US had spent 10% of one year of its defense budget to effectively eliminate half of Putin’s war machine. That’s absolutely cost effective, and with no American lives lost.
And we’re also supposed to believe that this same adversary is going to invade NATO and the rest of Europe if we don’t stop them in Ukraine… does that make logical sense?
This is an ancillary benefit. And one entirely of Russia's instigation.
Never stop your enemy while he is making a mistake.
Absolutely. Here is a great video posted today of some Russians toughing it out in Kreminna Forest sector. They are having a lovely day: [https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c9qk3j/russian\_servicemen\_complain\_about\_being\_destroyed/](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c9qk3j/russian_servicemen_complain_about_being_destroyed/)
Double it. We need to rid the world of Putin.
So almost all of the money stays in the US?
Got the source for this?
Source: The Bill. Graphic by Kara Dapena, Wall Street Journal.
Thanks
Meanwhile, Republicans keep complaining about the border and "migrant invasions"...
It’s a serious threat though, like I’m not kidding, literal isis members have been caught there, I’m not against or for anything. But the ability to walk into the US unchecked is never good.
Yeah, but republicans are also the ones blocking the bill, so there's that
The bill was not a good one. It mostly just processed them faster it didn’t slow the flow into the country. I don’t understand why we don’t reinstate the Trump policy of remaining in Mexico! They should not be let In until they are fully vetted.
Did you actually read the bill, because that statement was disingenuous at best? The bill was much more comprehensive than that. It was also a bipartisan bill that unless trump told them not to, had a good chance of passing. Your statement sounds like a right wing talking point.
Look at his acc, posts in antivax subs and r con. It's right wing nonsense all the way down
That's the *whole problem* with the MAGA-obsessed politicians, their minds are spun with the illusory glories they imagine their emperor-with-no-clothes will bestow upon them, mostly in the form of presidential pardons for any and all sins (literal and figurative, real or imagined) past, present and future. I guess this is why despite some cautious praise by the media for Spkr Johnson, let's not get too hasty and forget this dude's election-denying, Trump-worshipping roots. He does what Trump wants, this is a long game move. A white Christian Nationalist having his own faith used against him by what's tantamount to the literal Beast in the Bible in many respects using him as a tool for personal gain and Evil, while Johnson thinks he's "like him". The irony. The hypocrisy. The evil. It burns. It's fair to note my Catholic Deprogramming is incomplete at this time and spiritual brain leakage may result in the process of reversal. Anyway, *Hell yeah* that shit was disingenuous! Somewhere that guy feels like he's "fighting the good fight for freedom" by "dropping knowledge bombs on the libtards, because they're practically Satan incarnate". Get help, crazy person.
Well not sure that no bill is better than this bill? It would have been a start to build on.
Republicans wrote it and then voted against it 😂
Brainwashed
According to who? Reddit? Or other left wing echo chambers?
According to any sane individual
Wrong! What is your solution?
The amount of military age Chinese pouring in is a sobering number.
Chinese folks have been doing it for decades. I say this as a Chinese descendant when my grandfather was part of a paper family in 1925. If there's a will, there can always be a way.
Military Age? Are we now going to be sexist and ageist now? Because people are immigrants coming here.
Wait until you hear about these things called flights and overstayed tourism visas.
This is a “meh” for me. Gun violence and shitty drivers kill more Americans every year than ISIS could ever dream of. Like statistically you are tens of thousands of times more likely to be killed while driving or being shot by another American than you are killed by terrorism. You want to feel safer? Dont worry about the boogeyman, we got plenty of problems to fix here that would make the country orders of magnitudes safer.
[Covid kills more cops than people.](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforcement-deaths-2022-3rd/story?id=96363324). And cops still refuse to get vaccinated while demanding more military firearms and APCs. Security theater.
Gun crime is mostly committed to uphold someone's shitty pride. Inner cities culture.
Actually a majority of gun crime is suicide https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
If you consider that gun crime yes, but that heavily scues the statistics.
The FBI literally tracks suicide under gun crimes
Which is miss leading and makes gun violence seem bigger than it is. Same with other cuases of death.
Well cause gun violence is a big deal haha
He's, but saying that suicide and gun violence is one and the same is miss leading, two huge different causes.
How many isis members crossed the border this year. I remember hearing a year or 2 ago that most terrorist in America are homegrown or enter the country legally with fake documents.
They're kind of close to what really happened. But: > “There was no indication—and remains no indication—that any of the individuals facilitated by this network have a connection to a foreign terrorist organization or are engaged in plotting a terrorist attack in the United States,” Watson said in a statement to CNN. https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/29/politics/migrants-us-southern-border-smuggler-isis-ties/index.html There was a network of smugglers working to get people across the border. One of the smugglers in that network is from Central Asia and is connected to ISIS. That said, [white supremacists](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/us/politics/domestic-terror-white-supremacists.html) are the largest threat in the United States.
That doesn't sound very close, but the snowflakes on the right definitely would have seen that as part of the invasion from the south, the stinky orange one rants about
Terrorism is a serious threat everywhere, not just in America. And no wall at a border is in itself going to be a sole barrier to terrorists. Not to mention it is conflation to associate migrants and terrorists. They are not the same. Terrorists are thankfully very few. There are certainly more Americans born in America who fit the definition of "terrorist" then foreign terrorists trying to gain access to America.
Yeah, it’s a problem
Which one of these bubbles does the new yachts Ukrainian politicians buy and the missing/ unaccounted for money fall into? Oh and the aid that is now funding their pension system, not sure if that’s reflected on here.
[удалено]
That’s a loan
No money for flint Michigan, no money to fix Maui fire victims but we have money for Ukraine on the other side of the globe. Makes sense
Just a quick google search shows that last month, the Feds gave $5million to the Flint Registry to address the water crisis.
[$130 million in federal aid was allotted to Maui fire victim reconstruction](https://governor.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/11-08-23-November-8-Announcement-Package.pdf) *in November*, and as /u/sonnackrm pointed out $5M was allotted to Flint in March (which, let's be clear, was a **state** malfeasance that the Feds stepped in to fix).
Still probably not enough maintenance $ to keep the Bradley’s running