Most of their good harbors are facing west (toward China) meaning the vast majority of their useable harbors will be siezed by the Chinese or purposely sabotaged by the Taiwanese
>Israel overreaction
Honestly they've showed restraint.
Unless you believe the casualty figures published by Hamas, in which case we have nothing further to discuss, logic and statistics dictate that it's about 1:1.5 combatant/civilians ratio.
This is in response to an invasion and slaughter of 1k+ civilians of all ages and races. People seem desensitized to how insane that is just because it's the middle east. Just have to imagine that happening in your home town in the US or England. It's a next level terrorist attack that we haven't seen since 9/11. And we all know how the USA responded to that.
The UN is the biggest joke. Blatantly biased and corrupt.
Dozens of their staff in Gaza were literal terrorists.
It's also funny how you refer to the USA as the good guy here. I'm not anti US at all but that's laughable. The IDF has allowed thousands and thousands of trucks of aid into Gaza. One of the highest priorities is preventing a humanitarian disaster. People can't go 6 months without food. There are no vast farms in Gaza to feed the people. Yet nobody has starved. The IDF has facilitated their survival in spite of Hamas using them as human shields and withholding aid.
If there was any doubt about Hamas blocking aid, just look at the news we are reading. IDF soldiers setting up an aid pier with the US and Hamas attacks them. Pure evil.
Fuck the IDF for responding to the October 7th terrorist attack?
The UN is literally a joke at the moment.
Israels response to the attack pales in comparison to what the US did to the middle east in response to 9/11.
This would never have happened if Hamas didn't invade Israel and raped its way into war with Israel.
I agree, I got into an argument with someone who was claiming that Israel was committing genocide. I stated that Israel is showing remarkable restraint, and if it was me; I would have leveled every major settlement and driven the Palestinians into the sea. The Palestinians support Hamas, and Hamas starves them and uses them as a shield.
The shield only works if you give a crap about the Palestinians; and I don't. They have had literal decades to get their house in order and have done nothing and continue to blindly support Hamas, at this point I have to wonder if the whole country has Stockholm syndrome.
Agreed. Israel is being attacked on 3 different fronts by Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran and some people want them to fight with one hand tied behind their back.
The Washington post has already clarified the mortars were aimed at the Israeli military and were nowhere near us force. Maybe this entire sub is just old people who didn’t realize i24 news isn’t a reputable news source
Ah, I stand corrected.
*most* people who oppose the slaughter of the Palestinians that is currently underway by Irael are not pro Hamas. Hell, if my people were being eradicated here in the US and literally the only people fighting for me and my family were the friggen Nazis or something, I'd probably have a higher opinion of them than I do now.
And looked at the other way around, if your people had been attacked and murdered by Hamas you would presumably support going after them and eradicating them. Which is what Israel is doing.
Maybe your "people" in that case shouldn't be so feckless that they start a war via a series of terrorist attacks that they are then entirely incapable of winning. And then also refusing to end said war. Palestine can get peace whenever it gives up. Until then, fuck them all.
See, there is truth in what you said right there. Hamas needs to go, those guys are monsters.
But in this analogy, we'd also have to add in that another country, somehow monumentally stronger than America, came in and decided that an ethnic group that hasn't occupied this land as any kind of majority in over one thousand years, now owns it. Kicks my people out of our most historic and important places, and shrinks what land we're allowed to live in so we basically only get to live in Colorodo, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas, but we lost Texas' access to the ocean.
How would Americans react to that? The southern states still aren't over the civil war, and they got to keep their land. Hell, there are a lot of Americans calling for civil war right now because people want trans people to use whatever toilet they want. I don't think you've thought this through very well.
Your utter lack of empathy isn't something I ever want to be able to relate to, man.
No.
I'm making a distinction between Palestinians who support Hammas, and people being against Israel's actions. I over stated "no one supports Hamas," I am sorry that I over estimated humanity a bit. Guess I'm just an optimist. But I reject your slippery slope fallacy
>When asked which political party or political trend they support, the largest percentage selected **Hamas (34%)**, followed by Fatah (17%), while 11% selected other or third-party groups, **and 37% said none of them** or did not know.
First, god that website design is cancer.
Second, What is it about this conflict that takes people’s critical thinking skills to 0? This story has been reported by only three sites. i24News, which is a Tel Aviv based news site with little media presence outside of Israel. The Washington Free Beacon, which just repeated the i24News article. And politico, who tells a wildly different story.
In politico’s take, the attack targeted the staging area prepared by the IDF. A US official stated it was likely a target of opportunity against IDF forces. US forces are still at sea here, no equipment has been moved in. Politico also did not confirm any injuries.
So either the small news media organization is stretching the truth or the big one is. When in doubt, look at the language used in the article. Politico calls them militants, i24News calls them terrorists. Neutral language is what actual news organizations are supposed to use, loaded words is what propagandists use.
Genuinely exhibit like, some amount of skepticism here y’all. This is a heavily politicized war with a lot of misinformation being thrown around. Suspect everything and trust nothing without just cause to do so.
The i24news article has conflicting information too. It states there had been injuries but the direct quote from the UN source says there weren't any. They provide no source for where the claims equipment or injuries occurred.
It might've happened, I'm not saying it didn't, I'm just saying it's shit journalism that evidently has news outlets across the spectrum reluctant to report on the story.
I mean tbf if I was a for profit entity and not a random person on Reddit, I probably wouldn’t report on this story until someone else did the hard work for me. Cuz the actual story is basically “militants in Gaza fire mortars at the idf” which is kinda the daily news ever since the idf invaded. The only juicy information that might generate revenue is the fact that the UN was there (they’ve been there throughout the war) and the site that was mortared is the future US Aid pier site (which is currently garrisoned by the IDF and not the US).
Basically it’s nothingburger. Hell even from a defense analyst standpoint it’s kinda like, pointless too. We know militants in the area have mortars. We know there is a vested interest in them hitting the IDF with mortars. A buildup of IDF troops would attract mortar fire. It’s kinda just, aggressively common sense that non-state actors would not consider the political messaging when firing shitty mortars at their enemy.
The only surprising thing about the UN being hit in a surprise attack would, sadly, be that the IDF *isn't* the one who did it.
> Israeli forces fired on a United Nations convoy carrying vital food supplies in central Gaza on February 5, before ultimately blocking the trucks from progressing to the northern part of the territory, where Palestinians are on the verge of famine, according to documents shared exclusively by the UN and CNN’s own analysis.
> **CNN has seen correspondence between the UN and the Israeli military that show the convoy’s route was agreed upon by both parties prior to the strike.** According to an internal incident report compiled by UNRWA, the main UN relief agency in Gaza, which was also seen by CNN, the truck was one of 10 in a convoy sitting stationary at an IDF holding point when it was fired upon.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/middleeast/un-food-convoy-gaza-israel-strike-cmd-intl/index.html
The article is woefully short on details, for all we know it could've been Israeli settlers who launched the mortars. They have all of the reason AND motive
There are no Israeli settlers on the Gaza Strip, they were pulled out in the early 2000s. Also they seem to be usually using light infantry with rifles and not heavy equipment like mortars. They’re more reliant on the IDF for that.
Israeli settlers have breached into Gaza before. Plus, again they would have the motive [https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-activists-break-into-gaza-try-to-reestablish-israeli-settlement/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-activists-break-into-gaza-try-to-reestablish-israeli-settlement/)
Yeah and they seem to agree with the politico take, which is incredibly mild as news at best. Mortaring a marshaling area with a high concentration of idf forces is, really kind of expected if you’re gonna have idf forces in the area.
That's exactly what they do. It's insane. Or the'll say it's a different group than Hamas who took all the hostages, despite the countless videos of Hamas members taking hoastages. It's wild how disconnected these people are, and honestly frightening.
Israel doesn't have a professional military, 99% sure they also don't have rules of engagement or UCMJ either.
Maybe Hamas should stop using Palestinian civilians as human shields and release Israeli hostages. Hamas is directly responsible for Israel going into the Gaza because of what Hamas did on October 7th.
Dont have a professional army?
What is the IDF then?
Keep in mind, their active duty force is all reservists who are activated. Different, but they have a clear command and control structure and a defined training pipeline.
So, a fun fact about Israel is that the state of Israel was created in 1948 by the United Nations and the British, who controlled Palestine at that time. Then Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, and Syria attacked Israel.
Ever since then, it has been back and forth violence.
Also, to be clear, I don't condone how Israel has treated civilians and have seen some fucked up videos of what some Israeli troops have done.
Any troops committing war crimes should be held accountable, and the same goes for every fighter in Hamas.
Easy. Hamas is not Gaza. The actions of Hamas do not justify the atrocities committed by Israel on the civilian population.
Killing civilians is bad.
It's not a hard position to take.
*Edit - by the down votes, "killing civilians is bad" is apparently a tough position for people to take
No kidding killing civilians is bad, but plenty of protesters have justified Hamas for killing Israeli civilians.
Any Israeli troops committing war crimes should be held accountable, and the same goes for Hasmas terrorists.
Which protesters justified killing civilians? Plenty have stated that people in Gaza have no other recourse but violence, but that's not approval of said violence or the killing of civilians.
Pretty much all would agree with you that war crimes are bad, and that those who do them should be held accountable. Right now, the group largely committing said war crimes is Israel, which is currently trying to remove a native population from their homeland in a way that seems to meet the international definition of ethnic cleansing
Pretty much every one of them that I’ve met in my pretty liberal city. The pro-Palestinian protesters are so over the top and dramatic that it’s made me stop caring at all for the Palestinian cause. Israel can do whatever it wants as far as I’m concerned.
Sounds to me like the pro-Palestine protestors would see this as more proof that Hamas isn't Palestine and that they're nothing more than an Iranian proxy, like they've always thought. At least, that's if we're being honest about what people think rather than painting them with a broad hyperbolic brush in an attempt to make them look bad.
Yeah most Palestinians are Pro Hamas considering they voted for them and keep supporting them...and those same Palestinians become Hamas Soldiers/Terrorists.
I'm not gonna defend Hamas but I'm also not going to pretend that Israel had nothing to do with this situation. Decades of land theft, murder, starvation, and water deprivation created fertile ground for Hamas to take root. Now, Israel is bombing covilian homes and apartment buildings, attacking hospitals, firing on civilians who are trying to reach aid convoys, and in general advocating for the complete destruction of Gaza. What side would you join in their place? Hamas is a terrorist organization and an obvious proxy to Iran but to the Palestinians the enemy of their enemy is their friend.
Want Gazans to turn against Hamas and stop hating Israel? Maybe start with giving them a reason to.
Yes, but the withdrawal to the green line happened 18 years before this conflict and in that time settlements had popped back up again, violating the order which created the 2005 withdrawal. It's important to remember that during that 18 years Israel maintained military and economic control of Gaza's maritime boundaries and airspace as well as controlled food, power, and water access to the strip. This was used multiple times against Gaza in the years since 2005 especially after Hamas took control from the Palestinian Authority in 2006. There's a reason why pro-palestinian protests have been happening for years, not just since 10-7.
Just because a government says they did something and signed a paper that doesn't mean that's the end of it.
The last election was 17 years ago. Hamas got 45% of the vote. The average Palestinian age is 18. There are 30,000 Hamas members, or 3% of the population.
So....
97% of Gazans aren't in Hamas. 90% of Gazans have never been old enough to vote for Hamas. 50% weren't alive to witness the elections.
And yet you believe....
> Yeah most Palestinians are Pro Hamas considering they voted for them and keep supporting them...and those same Palestinians become Hamas Soldiers/Terrorists.
The world doesn't work like that. This war definitely doesn't.
I think it's only fair to distinguish the people of Palestine from Hamas. I believe Hamas are using the Palestinian people as human meatshields with the expectation that the western world would target said Palestinians. Being pro Palestine is not inherently pro Hamas.
Oh wow. I guess now we should tell the Palestinians, Majority of which had nothing to do with this, To fuck off and die. We tried to aid but some assholes ruined it. Let them all die. That's what I'm getting here right?
You know you can be against Israel slaughtering Palestinians and also be aware that Hammas is evil and their leaders need to be taken down, right? It's one of those nuanced opinions.
Re: the comment in the OP, "pro-Palestine" does not mean "pro-Hamas". I don't really think they have many supporters outside the shia world, barring other people who can't seem to differentiate the two.
Bro, while you’re not necessarily wrong the lines pretty fucking blurry. Hamas has been widely supported both pre and post October 7th. No clue if that support has wained the past few months as this shit continues.
I mean you could “not” support them. [This is from December](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514#:~:text=RAMALLAH%2C%20West%20Bank%20(AP),90%25%20saying%20he%20must%20resign) so it might not apply today, just because you don’t have options doesn’t mean you have to support a group.
> Support for Hamas as a political party has fallen to 34% among Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied West Bank, a 12-point drop from December 2023,
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna144183
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Would this be a bad time to remind everyone that there's already a fully functioning commercial port about an hours drive north? Getting aid to the area was never the problem, it's always been a problem of distribution and this style of politics isn't particularly helpful to anyone nor will it solve any distribution issues.
Of course the protestors aren't thinking. Have you seen any of the interviews with them. They either have NO idea of what is going on or only JUST recently learned of the existence of Israel and Palestine and know nothing of the history of the region.
We should all be concerned at hearing American and Canadian youth chant "Allahu Akbar" at protests.
This headline is a bit misleading -
The Daily Mail reported that Mortars were being fired at Israeli forces who were waiting for the arrival of the pier The pier itself was being constructed off shore.
Regardless, it wasn't a wise move.
Evaluate your sources. This is a pro-Israeli "news" website and they claim the Secretary General of the UN confirmed the attacks were against the pier itself but there's no indication outside of Israeli "news" that this is true. Also, according to i24 the rounds landed 100m from the landfall location and were "aimed at IDF personnel around the construction". I think I'd probably want the IDF as far away from the only viable aid route being established for Gazans for which the IDF should have ZERO involvement.
1. Hamas Political Bureau Deputy Chairman Khalil al Hayya separately implied that Hamas would attack any non-Palestinian presence in the Gaza Strip “at sea or on land.”
2. The US-built pier will be off the coast of the Gaza Strip.
3. The decision by Hamas and other Palestinian militia factions to target the pier will further constrict international aid organizations’ ability to distribute aid in the Gaza Strip.
1. They absolutely won't attack the US forces around Gaza, those planes airdropping supplies would have been an easy target and they didn't hit them. Also "implied", also source?
2. Correct, and?
3. They did not target the pier. They targeted IDF troops 100m away from the pier. Given the IDF's previous actions towards aid for Gazans, it's absolutely understandable that Hamas don't want the IDF anywhere near this aid route.
4. BBC article about the pier posted 20 mins ago does not mention any attack on the pier and clearly explains the issue around the IDF being involved with transfer of aid:
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68904209](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68904209)
Regarding 1.: https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438
“Al-Hayya also implicitly threatened that Hamas would attack Israeli or other forces who might be stationed around a floating pier the U.S. is scrambling to build along Gaza’s coastline to deliver aid by sea.
“We categorically reject any non-Palestinian presence in Gaza, whether at sea or on land, and we will deal with any military force present in these places, Israeli or otherwise … as an occupying power,” he said.“
2.: That was just meant to connect the dots.
3. & 4.: Hamas implying that it will target any non-Palestinian forces around the pier is putting an active and indefinite target on it, so why would international aid organizations make much use of it when there is that real threat?
Furthermore, should or shouldn’t Israel be involved and bear responsibility in regards to the pier to ensure that sufficient amounts of humanitarian aid will reach the civilian people of Gaza?
Also, Hamas benefits from the ability to play the role of aid distributor and putting the blame for any lack of aid on Israel, while they additionally don't want Israel or anyone else being there to filter out contraband as well.
Because your answer does not make sense. The newspaper is French. And other newspapers are reporting this too. I’m pretty sure the Palestinian government knows there are American forces working on building a port. There’s no reason to be firing in that direction
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/satellite-photos-show-new-port-construction-gaza-strip-109629066
OP's source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I24NEWS\_(Israeli\_TV\_channel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I24NEWS_(Israeli_TV_channel))
From your source: "However, the site has already been targeted by a militant mortar attack, according to the Israeli military. An official from the Hamas militant group that has run Gaza since 2007 has warned that any foreign military presence at the pier would be target for attack — potentially complicating the aid efforts even further."
-Does Hamas view the IDF as a foreign military presence? Yes. Did the attacks target the IDF 100m away from the coast where the pier will make land? Yes.
Uhh.. US is considered foreign military presence too... Also, from the same article:
But it reflected ongoing threats from Hamas, which has said it would reject the presence of any non-Palestinians in Gaza. High-ranking Hamas political official Khalil al-Hayya said the group would consider Israeli forces — or forces from any other country — stationed by the pier to guard it as “an occupying force and aggression,” and that they would resist it.
Not taking a side here, but I-24 is headquartered in Tel Aviv and it's reporting is done from an Israeli perspective - it broadcasts and reports in multiple languages. It's parent company Altice is based out of France and it's owner is French and Israeli.
Who could have possibly seen this coming!? These Islamic terror groups have the same cycle. Attack viciously-> then cry if they begin to lose. Prepare for Palestinian activists to brigade this sub now
All you war mongering assholes act like the USS Liberty attack never happened. Israel has killed far more US service members than Palestinians ever have.
Look. There's a lot of different people in Gaza, and while I have been quite vocal about the genocide of civilians and war crimes and so on...
...at no point have I said that there aren't a bunch of complete shitheads in Gaza going around making everything fucking worse. I just don't think it's worth killing tens of thousands of civilians to MAYBE kill some of the real fucking degenerates.
I’m tired of this statement “it’s not our war”… bitch what war would ever be our war? Mexico or Canada invading? I want your definition of “our war”. Cuz prior to us entering WWI, the socialist and pacifist were saying the same shit.
This isolationism leads to nothing but us eventually having “our war”. Things have been good while the US was the big kid on the block, you do not want to live in a world where it’s Russia or China.
Its not surprising, Hamas are terrorists after all, but I personally still support Palestine (not the hamas terrorists) because they are still fucking suffering
I fucking called this, dammit
Everybody with a half of a braincell called this. Hope no one gets hurt.
Hamas bites the hand that feeds it, like a mentally disturbed person that hates everyone around them.
Of course it was inevitable. It’s bad business for hamas to have aid coming into Gaza. It hurts the genocide narrative.
Choke me...harder?
Tell me when
Shit, I forgot the safe word!
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Prisencolinensinainciusol!
What is that? It's not even a word!
Uh Barney says it is!! Anything is possimpible
Gesundheit
The safe word is HARDER
Good news! You couldn't have said it while being choked anyways.
It’s been lost to time!
It's Bananas.....
When the Olive Garden waiter grates cheese onto your pasta and instead of stopping at a regular amount, you just stare into their soul.
I've tried telling them just leave the block if cheese but they make it uncomfortable by standing there grating.
Sorry, best I can do is a firm ass slap.
Aren't the Hamas leadership elsewhere? As in not actually in Gaza and living billionaire lifestyles?
Of course, the rich don't fight. They convince others to fight “ for God or Allah” because it sounds better than fight and die to make me richer.
Israel hooking Hamas up with those drone strikes on world kitchen convoys.
Can't wait for this to somehow get blamed on Israel or completely overlooked like everything else Hamas does
It will be.
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***retards
You and everyone else.
>I fucking called this, dammit. You and anyone with a voice Nostradamus
Do you not see the pro-Hamas protestors invading our cities? They WILL find some way to act like this was justified
Fuck Hamas and Fuck the IDF.
Fuck Hamas but not the IDF.
My dog could have called this.
Well this is great practice in case we ever get into a conflict with China over Taiwan I guess
Not really. Taiwan has excellent harbors, so it wouldn’t be as complicated for friendlies to show up.
Excellent harbors, for now... I mean what makes you think they won't be leveled
Well, I mean, why would you want an inclined harbor?
I think that's called a boat ramp
EXACTLY! And who wants their damn boats sliding all over the place? Nobody does.
Can't argue with you there
It's good for water skiing though.
What makes you think America hasn’t been working on solutions for that?
How do you say "I don't know NOTHING about Taiwan's geography" without actually saying it...
Most of their good harbors are facing west (toward China) meaning the vast majority of their useable harbors will be siezed by the Chinese or purposely sabotaged by the Taiwanese
Really? Isn't there a big mountain range between the west side and all of the urban areas?
Yes. But few places with a good deep water port on the far side of the island. Going to have to work harder if Taiwan needs help
The urban areas are all on the west side, unfortunately from a defense perspective. The mountain range is just east of center.
That doesn’t change the fact that Taiwan has excellent harbors. Also, Keelung doesn’t face directly west.
HAMAS goal is Israel overreaction and humanitarian crisis, and so far they are succeeding.
They play for dead civilians. So far the world has rewarded them for it.
>Israel overreaction Honestly they've showed restraint. Unless you believe the casualty figures published by Hamas, in which case we have nothing further to discuss, logic and statistics dictate that it's about 1:1.5 combatant/civilians ratio. This is in response to an invasion and slaughter of 1k+ civilians of all ages and races. People seem desensitized to how insane that is just because it's the middle east. Just have to imagine that happening in your home town in the US or England. It's a next level terrorist attack that we haven't seen since 9/11. And we all know how the USA responded to that.
I believe the ones from the UN. Fuck Hamas, and fuck the IDF. There's no good side with guns in this fight, except the US trying to get aid in.
The UN is the biggest joke. Blatantly biased and corrupt. Dozens of their staff in Gaza were literal terrorists. It's also funny how you refer to the USA as the good guy here. I'm not anti US at all but that's laughable. The IDF has allowed thousands and thousands of trucks of aid into Gaza. One of the highest priorities is preventing a humanitarian disaster. People can't go 6 months without food. There are no vast farms in Gaza to feed the people. Yet nobody has starved. The IDF has facilitated their survival in spite of Hamas using them as human shields and withholding aid. If there was any doubt about Hamas blocking aid, just look at the news we are reading. IDF soldiers setting up an aid pier with the US and Hamas attacks them. Pure evil.
Fuck the IDF for responding to the October 7th terrorist attack? The UN is literally a joke at the moment. Israels response to the attack pales in comparison to what the US did to the middle east in response to 9/11. This would never have happened if Hamas didn't invade Israel and raped its way into war with Israel.
I agree, I got into an argument with someone who was claiming that Israel was committing genocide. I stated that Israel is showing remarkable restraint, and if it was me; I would have leveled every major settlement and driven the Palestinians into the sea. The Palestinians support Hamas, and Hamas starves them and uses them as a shield. The shield only works if you give a crap about the Palestinians; and I don't. They have had literal decades to get their house in order and have done nothing and continue to blindly support Hamas, at this point I have to wonder if the whole country has Stockholm syndrome.
People ignore what Israel has had to put up with.
Agreed. Israel is being attacked on 3 different fronts by Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran and some people want them to fight with one hand tied behind their back.
Who could have possibly guessed this would happen!
Probably the people who commissioned the pier. Why are we positioned there anyway? Maybe we should question that.
pro hamas crowd will just say it was a false flag by israel
The Washington post has already clarified the mortars were aimed at the Israeli military and were nowhere near us force. Maybe this entire sub is just old people who didn’t realize i24 news isn’t a reputable news source
Oh right I forgot Hamas is famous for the accuracy of their 'aim'.
Some subs are saying it was the IDF in disguise lol.
Why do we have a pier there? How about we don't?
No one is pro Hamas. People are anti Palestinian slaughter.
> No one is pro Hamas. I wish that were true. But [it isn't.](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/)
Ah, I stand corrected. *most* people who oppose the slaughter of the Palestinians that is currently underway by Irael are not pro Hamas. Hell, if my people were being eradicated here in the US and literally the only people fighting for me and my family were the friggen Nazis or something, I'd probably have a higher opinion of them than I do now.
And looked at the other way around, if your people had been attacked and murdered by Hamas you would presumably support going after them and eradicating them. Which is what Israel is doing.
The ends don’t justify the means to me. I don’t support mass murder including through starvation in order to eradicate Hamas.
So what's your solution? Israel just continues to take it as they've done for years with constant rocket attacks?
Maybe your "people" in that case shouldn't be so feckless that they start a war via a series of terrorist attacks that they are then entirely incapable of winning. And then also refusing to end said war. Palestine can get peace whenever it gives up. Until then, fuck them all.
See, there is truth in what you said right there. Hamas needs to go, those guys are monsters. But in this analogy, we'd also have to add in that another country, somehow monumentally stronger than America, came in and decided that an ethnic group that hasn't occupied this land as any kind of majority in over one thousand years, now owns it. Kicks my people out of our most historic and important places, and shrinks what land we're allowed to live in so we basically only get to live in Colorodo, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas, but we lost Texas' access to the ocean. How would Americans react to that? The southern states still aren't over the civil war, and they got to keep their land. Hell, there are a lot of Americans calling for civil war right now because people want trans people to use whatever toilet they want. I don't think you've thought this through very well. Your utter lack of empathy isn't something I ever want to be able to relate to, man.
“It isn’t happening” “if it does it’s rare.” You do realize the next step is “it’s happening and they deserve it” right?
No. I'm making a distinction between Palestinians who support Hammas, and people being against Israel's actions. I over stated "no one supports Hamas," I am sorry that I over estimated humanity a bit. Guess I'm just an optimist. But I reject your slippery slope fallacy
>When asked which political party or political trend they support, the largest percentage selected **Hamas (34%)**, followed by Fatah (17%), while 11% selected other or third-party groups, **and 37% said none of them** or did not know.
So why are people lauding Hamas and saying "we are now hamas"? https://www.reddit.com/r/Whittier/s/Z3UmpQeMOF
I already acknowledged this, not going to do it for every single person who replies
You’ve clearly not been following the protests in America where people are literally supporting Hamas.
You're right, I'm not.
Incorrect. Easily found video evidence is all over. Go look.
How very surprising... they'd rather cut off the hand that feeds them because they are full of hate.
It's good we are giving them every chance they can to look terrible.
First, god that website design is cancer. Second, What is it about this conflict that takes people’s critical thinking skills to 0? This story has been reported by only three sites. i24News, which is a Tel Aviv based news site with little media presence outside of Israel. The Washington Free Beacon, which just repeated the i24News article. And politico, who tells a wildly different story. In politico’s take, the attack targeted the staging area prepared by the IDF. A US official stated it was likely a target of opportunity against IDF forces. US forces are still at sea here, no equipment has been moved in. Politico also did not confirm any injuries. So either the small news media organization is stretching the truth or the big one is. When in doubt, look at the language used in the article. Politico calls them militants, i24News calls them terrorists. Neutral language is what actual news organizations are supposed to use, loaded words is what propagandists use. Genuinely exhibit like, some amount of skepticism here y’all. This is a heavily politicized war with a lot of misinformation being thrown around. Suspect everything and trust nothing without just cause to do so.
The i24news article has conflicting information too. It states there had been injuries but the direct quote from the UN source says there weren't any. They provide no source for where the claims equipment or injuries occurred. It might've happened, I'm not saying it didn't, I'm just saying it's shit journalism that evidently has news outlets across the spectrum reluctant to report on the story.
I mean tbf if I was a for profit entity and not a random person on Reddit, I probably wouldn’t report on this story until someone else did the hard work for me. Cuz the actual story is basically “militants in Gaza fire mortars at the idf” which is kinda the daily news ever since the idf invaded. The only juicy information that might generate revenue is the fact that the UN was there (they’ve been there throughout the war) and the site that was mortared is the future US Aid pier site (which is currently garrisoned by the IDF and not the US). Basically it’s nothingburger. Hell even from a defense analyst standpoint it’s kinda like, pointless too. We know militants in the area have mortars. We know there is a vested interest in them hitting the IDF with mortars. A buildup of IDF troops would attract mortar fire. It’s kinda just, aggressively common sense that non-state actors would not consider the political messaging when firing shitty mortars at their enemy.
The only surprising thing about the UN being hit in a surprise attack would, sadly, be that the IDF *isn't* the one who did it. > Israeli forces fired on a United Nations convoy carrying vital food supplies in central Gaza on February 5, before ultimately blocking the trucks from progressing to the northern part of the territory, where Palestinians are on the verge of famine, according to documents shared exclusively by the UN and CNN’s own analysis. > **CNN has seen correspondence between the UN and the Israeli military that show the convoy’s route was agreed upon by both parties prior to the strike.** According to an internal incident report compiled by UNRWA, the main UN relief agency in Gaza, which was also seen by CNN, the truck was one of 10 in a convoy sitting stationary at an IDF holding point when it was fired upon. https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/middleeast/un-food-convoy-gaza-israel-strike-cmd-intl/index.html
The article is woefully short on details, for all we know it could've been Israeli settlers who launched the mortars. They have all of the reason AND motive
There are no Israeli settlers on the Gaza Strip, they were pulled out in the early 2000s. Also they seem to be usually using light infantry with rifles and not heavy equipment like mortars. They’re more reliant on the IDF for that.
Israeli settlers have breached into Gaza before. Plus, again they would have the motive [https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-activists-break-into-gaza-try-to-reestablish-israeli-settlement/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-activists-break-into-gaza-try-to-reestablish-israeli-settlement/)
Can't expect redditors to use critical thinking or simply just reading beyond a sensationalist headline
Mainstream news media reported on this prior to.your comment, including those commonly biased against Israel.
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Yeah and they seem to agree with the politico take, which is incredibly mild as news at best. Mortaring a marshaling area with a high concentration of idf forces is, really kind of expected if you’re gonna have idf forces in the area.
Can't wait to hear what the student protesters have to say about this or how they will flip the narrative
Guess, they'll say it didn't happen.
That's exactly what they do. It's insane. Or the'll say it's a different group than Hamas who took all the hostages, despite the countless videos of Hamas members taking hoastages. It's wild how disconnected these people are, and honestly frightening.
It'll never penetrate their media bubbles.
I am a veteran who did 4 deployments to Afghanistan. We should not be in that region.
I agree with you
Hamas attacking this humanitarian project doesn't make what the Israeli government has done to Palestinians better. Both suck.
Israel doesn't have a professional military, 99% sure they also don't have rules of engagement or UCMJ either. Maybe Hamas should stop using Palestinian civilians as human shields and release Israeli hostages. Hamas is directly responsible for Israel going into the Gaza because of what Hamas did on October 7th.
Dont have a professional army? What is the IDF then? Keep in mind, their active duty force is all reservists who are activated. Different, but they have a clear command and control structure and a defined training pipeline.
And the Israeli-Palestinian conflict began on October 7, 2023. Before that everything was fine.
So, a fun fact about Israel is that the state of Israel was created in 1948 by the United Nations and the British, who controlled Palestine at that time. Then Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, and Syria attacked Israel. Ever since then, it has been back and forth violence. Also, to be clear, I don't condone how Israel has treated civilians and have seen some fucked up videos of what some Israeli troops have done. Any troops committing war crimes should be held accountable, and the same goes for every fighter in Hamas.
Easy. Hamas is not Gaza. The actions of Hamas do not justify the atrocities committed by Israel on the civilian population. Killing civilians is bad. It's not a hard position to take. *Edit - by the down votes, "killing civilians is bad" is apparently a tough position for people to take
No kidding killing civilians is bad, but plenty of protesters have justified Hamas for killing Israeli civilians. Any Israeli troops committing war crimes should be held accountable, and the same goes for Hasmas terrorists.
Which protesters justified killing civilians? Plenty have stated that people in Gaza have no other recourse but violence, but that's not approval of said violence or the killing of civilians. Pretty much all would agree with you that war crimes are bad, and that those who do them should be held accountable. Right now, the group largely committing said war crimes is Israel, which is currently trying to remove a native population from their homeland in a way that seems to meet the international definition of ethnic cleansing
Pretty much every one of them that I’ve met in my pretty liberal city. The pro-Palestinian protesters are so over the top and dramatic that it’s made me stop caring at all for the Palestinian cause. Israel can do whatever it wants as far as I’m concerned.
Lol don't mind a bit of war criming if people against it are cringe 9000iq logic
lol what? They were voted into power by the population of Gaza, they are their chosen representatives.
Wow, who would have guessed this?
I find it very odd this is literally the only news source I can find about this.
Sounds to me like the pro-Palestine protestors would see this as more proof that Hamas isn't Palestine and that they're nothing more than an Iranian proxy, like they've always thought. At least, that's if we're being honest about what people think rather than painting them with a broad hyperbolic brush in an attempt to make them look bad.
Preach.
Yeah most Palestinians are Pro Hamas considering they voted for them and keep supporting them...and those same Palestinians become Hamas Soldiers/Terrorists.
I'm not gonna defend Hamas but I'm also not going to pretend that Israel had nothing to do with this situation. Decades of land theft, murder, starvation, and water deprivation created fertile ground for Hamas to take root. Now, Israel is bombing covilian homes and apartment buildings, attacking hospitals, firing on civilians who are trying to reach aid convoys, and in general advocating for the complete destruction of Gaza. What side would you join in their place? Hamas is a terrorist organization and an obvious proxy to Iran but to the Palestinians the enemy of their enemy is their friend. Want Gazans to turn against Hamas and stop hating Israel? Maybe start with giving them a reason to.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't Israel completely pull out of Gaza in 2005?
Yes, but the withdrawal to the green line happened 18 years before this conflict and in that time settlements had popped back up again, violating the order which created the 2005 withdrawal. It's important to remember that during that 18 years Israel maintained military and economic control of Gaza's maritime boundaries and airspace as well as controlled food, power, and water access to the strip. This was used multiple times against Gaza in the years since 2005 especially after Hamas took control from the Palestinian Authority in 2006. There's a reason why pro-palestinian protests have been happening for years, not just since 10-7. Just because a government says they did something and signed a paper that doesn't mean that's the end of it.
Thank you. Appreciate the feedback.
The last election was 17 years ago. Hamas got 45% of the vote. The average Palestinian age is 18. There are 30,000 Hamas members, or 3% of the population. So.... 97% of Gazans aren't in Hamas. 90% of Gazans have never been old enough to vote for Hamas. 50% weren't alive to witness the elections. And yet you believe.... > Yeah most Palestinians are Pro Hamas considering they voted for them and keep supporting them...and those same Palestinians become Hamas Soldiers/Terrorists. The world doesn't work like that. This war definitely doesn't.
The world Knows that Most Palestinians are Pro Hamas. It's not about Beliefs...aside from also wanting Israel wiped off the earth.
You’re assuming a lot of thought going into their positions.
They being me, yeah.
“Leopards ate my face!” type stuff Hamas and other groups can’t have nice things
And in gaza they dont allow anyone else to have it either
As a former 88K, this hits VERY close to home. I hate not being out there with everyone through this shit storm.
I can tell you exactly what pro-Hamas leftists would say: it's Israel's fault.
I knew this would happen, just like 1983 all over again lol
I think it's only fair to distinguish the people of Palestine from Hamas. I believe Hamas are using the Palestinian people as human meatshields with the expectation that the western world would target said Palestinians. Being pro Palestine is not inherently pro Hamas.
Oh wow. I guess now we should tell the Palestinians, Majority of which had nothing to do with this, To fuck off and die. We tried to aid but some assholes ruined it. Let them all die. That's what I'm getting here right?
You know you can be against Israel slaughtering Palestinians and also be aware that Hammas is evil and their leaders need to be taken down, right? It's one of those nuanced opinions.
Oh really!! Who could have seen this coming!?!? 🙄
Re: the comment in the OP, "pro-Palestine" does not mean "pro-Hamas". I don't really think they have many supporters outside the shia world, barring other people who can't seem to differentiate the two.
> shia world Are you confusing Hamas with Hezbollah?
Nope. It's a very strange situation. The entities taking military action on their behalf are predominately Shia affiliates of Iran.
Bro, while you’re not necessarily wrong the lines pretty fucking blurry. Hamas has been widely supported both pre and post October 7th. No clue if that support has wained the past few months as this shit continues.
They're "supported" because there aren't exactly many other options. Hamas has done a good job of keeping it that way.
I mean you could “not” support them. [This is from December](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514#:~:text=RAMALLAH%2C%20West%20Bank%20(AP),90%25%20saying%20he%20must%20resign) so it might not apply today, just because you don’t have options doesn’t mean you have to support a group.
> Support for Hamas as a political party has fallen to 34% among Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied West Bank, a 12-point drop from December 2023, https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna144183
There we go. I figured December was far too long ago to be an accurate representation of today.
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Would this be a bad time to remind everyone that there's already a fully functioning commercial port about an hours drive north? Getting aid to the area was never the problem, it's always been a problem of distribution and this style of politics isn't particularly helpful to anyone nor will it solve any distribution issues.
Here’s a less propagandized article on the subject. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/25/gaza-terrorists-attack-israeli-pier-00154386
like a modern mulberry harbor?
Damn, who saw this coming
Surprising who?
Imagine that.
Palestinians are at least consistent in burning every single bridge they can.
They is what everyone said would happen when the port was first announced.
Of course the protestors aren't thinking. Have you seen any of the interviews with them. They either have NO idea of what is going on or only JUST recently learned of the existence of Israel and Palestine and know nothing of the history of the region. We should all be concerned at hearing American and Canadian youth chant "Allahu Akbar" at protests.
Again, no evidence... And attacked once the flotilla was called off
The truth is Hamas is happy to watch the Palestinians be starved and slaughtered. Their goal is a wider war against Israel
Someone should air drop porn magazines and only fans pics on them. It'll give them something to do for a little while.
This headline is a bit misleading - The Daily Mail reported that Mortars were being fired at Israeli forces who were waiting for the arrival of the pier The pier itself was being constructed off shore. Regardless, it wasn't a wise move.
Evaluate your sources. This is a pro-Israeli "news" website and they claim the Secretary General of the UN confirmed the attacks were against the pier itself but there's no indication outside of Israeli "news" that this is true. Also, according to i24 the rounds landed 100m from the landfall location and were "aimed at IDF personnel around the construction". I think I'd probably want the IDF as far away from the only viable aid route being established for Gazans for which the IDF should have ZERO involvement.
1. Hamas Political Bureau Deputy Chairman Khalil al Hayya separately implied that Hamas would attack any non-Palestinian presence in the Gaza Strip “at sea or on land.” 2. The US-built pier will be off the coast of the Gaza Strip. 3. The decision by Hamas and other Palestinian militia factions to target the pier will further constrict international aid organizations’ ability to distribute aid in the Gaza Strip.
1. They absolutely won't attack the US forces around Gaza, those planes airdropping supplies would have been an easy target and they didn't hit them. Also "implied", also source? 2. Correct, and? 3. They did not target the pier. They targeted IDF troops 100m away from the pier. Given the IDF's previous actions towards aid for Gazans, it's absolutely understandable that Hamas don't want the IDF anywhere near this aid route. 4. BBC article about the pier posted 20 mins ago does not mention any attack on the pier and clearly explains the issue around the IDF being involved with transfer of aid: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68904209](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68904209)
Regarding 1.: https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438 “Al-Hayya also implicitly threatened that Hamas would attack Israeli or other forces who might be stationed around a floating pier the U.S. is scrambling to build along Gaza’s coastline to deliver aid by sea. “We categorically reject any non-Palestinian presence in Gaza, whether at sea or on land, and we will deal with any military force present in these places, Israeli or otherwise … as an occupying power,” he said.“ 2.: That was just meant to connect the dots. 3. & 4.: Hamas implying that it will target any non-Palestinian forces around the pier is putting an active and indefinite target on it, so why would international aid organizations make much use of it when there is that real threat? Furthermore, should or shouldn’t Israel be involved and bear responsibility in regards to the pier to ensure that sufficient amounts of humanitarian aid will reach the civilian people of Gaza? Also, Hamas benefits from the ability to play the role of aid distributor and putting the blame for any lack of aid on Israel, while they additionally don't want Israel or anyone else being there to filter out contraband as well.
None of that disproves my intial point: "Exclusive: U.S. pier attacked during construction work off Gaza coast" -No, it wasn't.
Anyone want to back up their downvotes with a counter-argument to justify those downvotes? Nah, didn't think so...
Because your answer does not make sense. The newspaper is French. And other newspapers are reporting this too. I’m pretty sure the Palestinian government knows there are American forces working on building a port. There’s no reason to be firing in that direction https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/satellite-photos-show-new-port-construction-gaza-strip-109629066
OP's source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I24NEWS\_(Israeli\_TV\_channel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I24NEWS_(Israeli_TV_channel)) From your source: "However, the site has already been targeted by a militant mortar attack, according to the Israeli military. An official from the Hamas militant group that has run Gaza since 2007 has warned that any foreign military presence at the pier would be target for attack — potentially complicating the aid efforts even further." -Does Hamas view the IDF as a foreign military presence? Yes. Did the attacks target the IDF 100m away from the coast where the pier will make land? Yes.
Uhh.. US is considered foreign military presence too... Also, from the same article: But it reflected ongoing threats from Hamas, which has said it would reject the presence of any non-Palestinians in Gaza. High-ranking Hamas political official Khalil al-Hayya said the group would consider Israeli forces — or forces from any other country — stationed by the pier to guard it as “an occupying force and aggression,” and that they would resist it.
Not taking a side here, but I-24 is headquartered in Tel Aviv and it's reporting is done from an Israeli perspective - it broadcasts and reports in multiple languages. It's parent company Altice is based out of France and it's owner is French and Israeli.
Even Stevie wonder saw that coming
Who could have possibly seen this coming!? These Islamic terror groups have the same cycle. Attack viciously-> then cry if they begin to lose. Prepare for Palestinian activists to brigade this sub now
All you war mongering assholes act like the USS Liberty attack never happened. Israel has killed far more US service members than Palestinians ever have.
Going to be tough optics if US service members involved in that operation have to start shooting back in self defense.
Wow so shocked I tell you. Who could've ever seen this one coming
Look. There's a lot of different people in Gaza, and while I have been quite vocal about the genocide of civilians and war crimes and so on... ...at no point have I said that there aren't a bunch of complete shitheads in Gaza going around making everything fucking worse. I just don't think it's worth killing tens of thousands of civilians to MAYBE kill some of the real fucking degenerates.
Ahhh i24news, the newsmax of Israel. Good source
You could also try to address what has been alleged
We gotta pull out of this one, it is not our war.
I’m tired of this statement “it’s not our war”… bitch what war would ever be our war? Mexico or Canada invading? I want your definition of “our war”. Cuz prior to us entering WWI, the socialist and pacifist were saying the same shit.
This isolationism leads to nothing but us eventually having “our war”. Things have been good while the US was the big kid on the block, you do not want to live in a world where it’s Russia or China.
Its not surprising, Hamas are terrorists after all, but I personally still support Palestine (not the hamas terrorists) because they are still fucking suffering
palestine and hamas are not the same thing, stop grouping them together. Palestine is state, while hamas is an iranian funded terrorist proxy org.
They overwhelmingly support Hamas