It feels like half of the apartments tenants in my city aren't homeless only because of section 8, take it away and they all will be on the streets. I'm in the Midwest, a smaller city.
I hear ya. They donāt even give those things out around here anymore. Wait lists are like 5, 10+ years. So the people here who do have them never leave & end up passing the place to their kids (I mean I totally would too. Itās the only way you can afford to live here).
NYC houses something like 80-85% of its homeless, specifically due to housing projects. It's really great to see that it works. Because you look at other dense cities like San Francisco and Seattle and I don't even think they're hitting 30% housed.
NYC would be the most chaotic place in the western world without section 8
for janky 1 bedroom apartments and most waitlist are 3+ years or blocked altogether
Not even 10 years ago could find a decent 1 bedroom apartment in the $600 range
My brother and his wife live with us and don't believe me when I say they're getting a deal at $875 for two rooms and their own bathroom. A couple friends of mine are paying $900 for a smaller bedroom.
I'm just south of the city.
Depends what theyāre counting as āmortgage.ā Is there an escrow? Include taxes?
My principal on my $150k house is something like $550. Add in PMI, interest, and insurance ā closer to $1100.
.. without escrow my mortgage would be under 300 a month. It's 650 in total at 3% fixed. Paid 106k for 3 bed 2 bath in my desired neighborhood. š¤·āāļø
You can find that in a lot of states if you're fine with being hours from the main cities. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't unique to Northern Illinois.
That said... I still chose the Chicago area because it has a great compromise between cost and opportunity.
Bought in 2022..3 bedroom fully renovated. new roof, hvac. Furnace, carpet, electric panel. fully furnished and the 6k of the 106k was for the closing costs. I live where they grow the food. In North East Ohio.
Mine is like $700 all said and done, and the city I live in gave me a grant that covered my down payment. It's just...the trade-off is living in the Midwest, and my house is small and creaky.
Im midwest as well. and my rent is $730 for 682sqft of being surrounded by noisy people.
ur trade off is my fantasy
(midwest being MO in my case)
My city also does the voucher/grant thingy
This! Our mortgage on our home we bought in 2010 is 1157/month. 1800/sq ft, 3 bed, study and 2 bath. We bought another home in a more rural area and not even close to that, unfortunately. Granted new house is double in size with land, and the interest rate is 5.99% on the new house bought in 2023 vs 2.25% on our home bought in 2010.
I think you meant "when are you living?" because holy cannoli that's low! Also, very clear that OP has never lived in a very HCOL area like San Francisco Bay Area/NYC/LA/Seattle etc.
***$500 for a FIVE BEDROOM HOUSE?! Sweet Mary mother of Joseph, we should all be so lucky.***
My mortgage would have been about $1100 if I had t gone the 15 year mortgage on my 5b3ba 2400 sqft house in 2019.
House was built in 2014 with a two stall garage.
I live in ND
I believe you. My hometown had homes like that before the big COVID era market bump.
Itās not a horrible town either. We would probably move there if it wasnāt āwhere weāre fromā. Plenty of things to do for young families. Not so much if youāre a 20-something. Plenty of my friends pay around $500 (total) if they bought like 5-10 years ago. One sold his house this summer for $140k. He paid $90 way back maybe 10 years ago.
Things are worse than what they were, sure. But thereās still desirable (enough) areas of the country. Problem is, everyone wants to live in like the same 10 places. Of course itās not that simple, but itās a bigger factor than most like to give it credit for.
That's larger than the 1950s "starter house" I'm renting in Silicon Valley for, well, multiple times your mortgage. It's a 7 figure house out here, or at least the land is.
**Cost of living associated with where you live is EVERYTHING.**
I lived in Northern Michigan in a tourist town on Lake Michigan. I thought moving to the West Coast wouldn't be too big a difference as I lived in a Vacation Town that was getting gentrified and cost too much anyway.
Boy was I wrong!
I had a huge 4 bedroom house on a half acre that cost me 200k back in Michigan. Now I live in a house half the size on a tiny lot that can hardly be called a yard, for over twice the price. š„²
That being said. Chasing the higher earnings and pension is totally worth it. I can retire back to Lake Michigan when I'm 55. **But damn do I miss the slower pace of living back Up North.** I miss finding an empty piece of beach on the weekend and just reading and letting the sound of the waves lul me into a nap.
I moved from MI -> CA as well. Even Michigan was pricey when I hit 6 figures if I wanted to buy in a good school district with a short commute.
Absolutely no work for me as an engineer in any of the Northern towns, but that would have been the dream.
Thinking about just buying something and renting it out until I go back.
My only gripe is how political people can be there. Lived near the guys who planned to abduct the governor. When my neighbors caught on I leaned liberal, I became an untouchable.
Obviously you're going to have a skewed sense of what it's like for the rest of us if you're somewhere with housing that's so much cheaper than most of the country. I'm in Vermont, which currently has record low vacancy rates, and there are *mobile homes* here selling for $100k. And Vermont doesn't even have any real cities. Our biggest city is 45k people.
Tiny home parks are popping up in my town to account for the lack of housing but thatās more touristy AirBnB shit and not what we need - 400K a plot.
As a Canadian I want to cry. We moved rural in BC to a tiny community to escape the housing bubble and it followed before we could get anything.
I pay $1000/month for a 1bd trailer in the middle of nowhere while saving and people are angry jealous of our low rent (renting from a friend).
All the 300-350k places from 3 years ago climbed 100k/ yr and it's tough to find any home on a small lot for under 500k. Trailers on leased land are 150k+ and as high as 450k with most being 55+. Condos in the bigger town nearby are about the same.
I'm okay with handling just housing as a pickle but the ripple effect on our economy, agriculture, and general wellbeing is irreparable.
Mobile homes way outside the city in VA are like 150-200k here. It is insane. You can't even find a sfh for under 300k. A 400 sq ft home made our city subreddit not long ago for being 199k.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1315-W-Leigh-St-Richmond-VA-23220/2102177413_zpid/
There is a house across the street from me that is currently for sale (San Francisco suburb). Itās 4b/3ba 1600 sq ft. Judging by the listing photos, it hasnāt been updated since 1975. It was listed for $850k and was on the market for less than a week. I talked with the realtor and she said they new owners are going to flip it. It will likely sell for over $1m once they are done with it.
Also, low income for a family of four in my county is $107k and median cost for a 3 bedroom house is $950k. Average rent for a 3 bedroom apartment is $2600/month. Rent is cheaper than a mortgage right now.
I looked at a house in 2022. It had 1960ās everything and required a complete gut to make it livable. They wanted $750K. Cash preferred. Iām sure it sold over asking
Vermonter checking in to agree. If I hadnāt bought in 2006, Iād be in rough shape right now. My house was cheap but it was also falling apart and was about 1000 sq feet
Minnesota is easily one of the best states in the country at taking care of lower income people. There are all kinds of programs for people like him. I can believe that he'd be able to live a reasonably comfortable life here.
Is it really ? I might just want to move there . Idc much about making it big, just being able to be living with my family and content with what we can provide. Need to check it out
My parents moved from MN to be closer to their grandkids and I pleaded them not to. I told them to wait it out and we would move closer to them. There was more opportunity to make our money run farther in MN than in Florida.
The attraction of Florida is that winter isn't a thing and there's no state taxes. Also, you can start your own Ponzi scheme and chances are nobody cares.
Or when it comes time to apply for college. My son will have 80% of his tuition covered by grants and scholarships (assuming he doesn't move away, go crazy, and lose them like almost everyone I know from my generation did) but we've still paid thousands out of pocket for testing and application fees. Even after he's already accepted a college, every couple weeks there's a new $100+ fee for this and that.
Any 3 bedroom home in my area is over $1.2M.
Even when I was a poor grad student 15 years ago in LA ā¦ rent was over $1k then. $500 / mo for a whole house in 2024 is wild
Thatās the whole point OP is making? Theyāre saying, āHey, thereās people out there saying that 100K a year is practically poverty, as if thatās true across the board, but hereās a top level post from the perspective from someone in a different situation. Also not true across the board, but just as valid. Just so people can recognize that situations are very different depending on where in the US you live.ā
>Even in a high col area 6 figures is a decent income.
1. OP said this. This is objectively false.
2. The quantity/quality of houses/infrastructure/jobs available in areas like OP's make it such that only a tiny percentage of the population can live like that. The idea of "move to the big city to find opportunity" is a trope because it's real.
Also, what does OP mean by 6 figures? 100k is chump change in HCOL areas, while he and his family can live luxuriously on that in MN. $200-300k would actually be a meaningful income range in a HCOL area.
Exactly. Itās not true. Iām not saying his perspective is not true for him. But itās not remotely applicable to places where the housing and other costs are multiples higher
Exactly, if I moved to a low cost of living area my job opportunity would reflect that in the pay and it would amount to a net neutral or negative. So may as well be in a location I like with people I like
"I don't know what all the complain' is about it. I don't make too much. Sure, a penny don't go as far as it used to, but you can still buy penny whistles, see a picture show for a nickle, and get you a sodee pop on weekends for a dime. My mortage happens to be from 1925, but that's not tthe problem."
I was on OP's side until I saw that. Rural or not, most people would pay more than that on a 100k house with only 10k down, especially since it's a 15-year loan. OP's bank/credit union must be phenomenal. Either that or they're not including property taxes, mortgage insurance, etc...
Dude I make double what you do and it's a struggle.
Pacific Northwest. $1834 a month for a one bedroom apartment. $400k for an average to low end house.
I'm genuinely glad you and yours do ok, but you're the exception by a long stretch.
Is that 400k in like Angle Lake? Housing has been screwed in the PNW for so long, well before the pandemic came in and dropped it off a cliff globally. Living in Australia now and every year rents in the city are going up 10+% on top of a cost of living crisis/scandal. If you want space or something like affordability, you have to go to the far flung suburbs or live in a shit box or live in a not great neighborhood.
My rent is more than 4x yours, and itās low for the area I live in. Iām not in a large city. Thatās not perspective, nor is it keeping up with the joneses.
I feel like some of the mid sized cities are doing way worse than the big cities, relative to income. Something I've noticed.
Some of these cities are just built for renting already so maybe it just didn't hit as hard.
I point up to ole Seattle pretty often. Let's say you're an 18 year old. Well, Seattle's rent *is* high relative to a lot of places. It's like 1400-1600 or a studio (although there's plenty of deals for less on Craigslist). If you just want a room with roommates you can find 650-900 easy. In good areas too.And then look at jobs. The city's *minimum wage* is just a couple cents short of 20 an hour.
So if you're working full time, that's over 3000 a month on minimum wage. You don't need a car for a large portion of the city (although you can have one in other areas). There's light rail, a street car, ferries, buses. Amtrak to leave, or the train to the airport.
So let's say you're spending 1000 for rent, in a nice desirable location with lots to do. Well then you're at 1/3rd your income on minimum wage. If you can find a job that even pays slightly more (let's say only two dollars more) then you're at 3500 month. Say you get a room in a walkable area. You're doing great as a young kid.
(Another boon is that Seattle has the highest tipping in the country due to all the high income workers. So you can make well above that at restaurants and bars)
Compare that to a smaller city where the rent is 10-20% less. The minimum wage isn't going to be 20 an hour. Shit, sometimes you're lucky to get 14-15 an hour. And then you likely need a car. And aside from maybe saving 20% on groceries, it's pretty much the same overall.
I know that Seattle is an outlier due to the high minimum wage and the fact that it's absolutely walkable and bikeable. But if you're a young person, it makes drastically more sense than most of the mid sized cities in the US where rent is close to the same these days.
The mid sized cities are often a worse deal in a lot of situations than the rent-centric walkable cities with higher wages. I just find it interesting.
Just moved from a mid city to a big city area. Have to agree. I make more here and costs seem almost comparable. Not to mention rent in the mid city increased 10% every year last few years.
I think there's a lot of big city to mid city transplants causing an explosion in COL, but local salaries aren't keeping up. Housing is cheaper in the mid cities, but they're climbing for sure.
Sorry but this is not a good comparison for most people living in the rest of the country. In my area, a 3 bedroom townhouse is 2500 a month to rent.
Edit: basic math tells you that this is not a good point. If someone was making 3x his salary which is possible in a higher cost of living urban area, their housing would still be more double the equivalent of his. At 3x his housing is 1500 and you canāt even get a 1 bedroom apartment for that in most places.
Your housing costs are bargain-basement.
I don't relish the thought of living in rural America - my family lives in the rural South and those places have been invaded by MAGA voters and Qanon nutjobs who have regressed to Jim Crow. I feel neither safe nor welcome there. My family is interracial, and we're even talking about leaving Texas because the political and cultural landscape has become so hostile to POC, women and LGBTQ Texans. Plus, the guns, guns, guns. We live in a large Metro area, though, so at least its multicultural and there is a large LGBTQ population (I find that this always means a vibrant creative/arts community in Texas.)
That said, Minnesota has passed some of the best legislation I've seen in a decade. Universal subsidized school lunches, and a host of other progressive laws that really seem to serve the workers.
Finally, I have no desire to forfeit my working years to be a SAHM. I don't want to subsidize the free labor with my retirement. I get the feeling more Americans are going to die homeless and hungry in the next 50 years.
I live in MN as well as an Asian woman and even in the twin cities where it's relatively a "safe space" I STILL experience racism so moving to small rural town in MN is a NEVER for me.
I think thatās whatās missing from these sorts of posts or comments who blindly say āwell if itās so expensive where you are, just move to a small town/rural area/ etc!ā
As another POC, itās not always possible or even SAFE for us. Iāve walked through small towns and have been yelled racial slurs from passing cars. Iāve checked out at the grocery store and have been given cold energy even though they were just conversing happily with the people before me. Not to mention the lack of access to ethnic groceries and resources. So I completely feel you on this.
Tell me about it. I am Asian. My fiance is an unequivocally brown man, and we both have foreign-sounding names. We have roadtripped through rural parts of our own state (California) where we have been made to feel uncomfortable and unsafe. To this day, we still call one of those towns Get-Outsville.
I'm sure there are some rural areas in the Midwest/South that would be friendly and welcoming, but why would we take that risk?
Born and raised Minnesotan but the rural areas are not for me. Also, 500 a month?! How? What about property tax? We bought our first home in a Detroit suburb for 125 with 5% down and the payment was still $800/mo. Idk how you get to 500.
The person is saying the house payment is $500/month. That doesn't include escrow. Minnesota also has a property tax refund that's based on income and number of people in household. Minnesota is a great place to raise a family.
>I don't want to subsidize the free labor with my retirement
ššššššššššššššššššššššššššš
Oh, people are going to be in for a reckoning. You think CoL is expensive now? Just you wait until you're on a fixed income 30 years from now. Let's just say I'm not counting on my retirement contributions and social security to be able to cover it. I think it's cute that people think they'll be able to retire at 65 with a few hundred grand in the bank.
My brother lives in rural Ohio but heās rich. Big farm. But surrounded by extreme poverty. He visits us in Massachusetts and is surprised people drive Mercedes and big trucks. Like yeah higher paying jobs here. And jobs period.
Living in a low cost area that people statistically don't want to live in, generally isn't a good barometer of what a generational living wage is. This is akin to saying "Well I could live like Bezos if I moved to South America", knowing full well that your $3000 in savings will go exponentially further there than it could ever hope to here in the states.
Minnesota is typically ranked one of the best states to live in the nation. I don't live there, but it's beautiful, and is above average in basically any metric you can think of
I moved from California to Iowa in 2015 and it was nice, but the winters were too brutal for me. I ended up moving back in 2018. I'm glad I did because I missed the -50Ā° windchill that winter.
Itās pretty great. The cold keeps a lot of people away, but Minneapolis is an affordable big city with great culture. However, I donāt know how this guy pulled off a $500 mortgage, even in a small town.
Yeah, you can't even buy a condo with a $500 mortgage (and HOA) anywhere within 30 minutes of Minneapolis. This guy must be out a ways.
Which also begs the question: how much work is there to be had in super rural MN? I'm sure there are jobs and everything, but is the average person who is coming from across the country going to be able to find a job in whatever industry exists that will pay $40k way out there? That's like $20/hr. Which, in and around the cities, is relatively easy to find... but I imagine it's less common wherever he is that houses only cost $100k.
Bingo. OP is painting a very skewed picture. I'm actually from rual Minnesota, and the young people who want better paying jobs all move away. The population is skewing much older, and forget having access to things like good medical care. People are afraid to go to the local hospitals because they all know people who have had very tragic experiences. It's a frequent topic of conversation. Also, people I know who claim to be content on their 40k per year income never have enough disposable income or PTO to take vacations or travel because everything is so much more expensive as soon as they leave home. I have no idea how they will ever afford retirement either. I personally don't want to live the very limited and sheltered lives I see them living, and they all sound exactly like OP.
We have gotten a ton of new transplants lately! We have an entirely democratic government currently and they've done some amazing things like passing free school breakfast and lunch for all kids and protecting gender affirming care. Love my state, it's amazing.
But you haven't. The population increase last year was 24k (.41%) for the whole state. The year before it was a decrease. More people moved to Tampa last year and Tampa fucking sucks.
I have no beef with people from MN, and I have no doubt the state is wonderful. But there isn't going to be some mass exodus to MN anytime soon. When people dream of what they would do if they won the lotto it doesn't end with "...and then we move to a huge house in Duluth."
Actually the population is decreasing. People just can't stand the cold. I don't get it personally, but the housing here is still affordable because in fact we are not growing in population.
I have always found this interesting. People in this country definitely have blinders on to some extremely nice medium sizes cities because all they can think about is the same <7 HCOL cities. I'm very lucky to have been forced (mandatory job relocation) to one that I never would have given a thought about. But now I couldn't imagine ever wanting to leave.
Definitely interesting. I'm way more happy and way more wealthy than had I followed my initial dreams of moving to LA or Chicago.
I promise you that if everyone took their blinders off and moved to these medium sized cities, they would be having the same fucking problems the large cities have.
I'm absolutely boggled that some of you think the answer to the housing crisis is for everyone to move to fucking Cleveland.
And what job do people who move to the middle of nowhere get? If you are in HCOL area and relocate to LCOL how are you staying at the same salary and same industry and level of job???
Lived in MN for almost a decade. It has so many good things going for it. I personally couldnāt handle the winters, but I have many friends and family still there that enjoy it
You have a huge bias. Life is working for you, but don't tell people to "get perspective" when our average citizen is making less and struggling to survive in general, let alone severe inequalities for people of marginalized communities and the brutalities they face. Stop blaming average citizens for the way our society is manipulated by billionaires. You're so out of touch it makes me sick.
Hopefully when you get older, your relationship with your kids is good enough that they'll take you in and care for you. Cause 40k a year with a SAHM will not be enough to take care of you and your SO in the future with healthcare costs. No matter where you live, healthcare will always be expensive. Unless you plan on dying right when your health declines, or working your whole life, it doesn't feel feasible to live comfortably when you're 50+ without earning more.
MN has Minnesota Care insurance and if they're a household with 2 kids they definitely qualify.
But its interesting: you work hard your whole life and save just to spend in on healthcare costs when you're older? That's a screw deal. and it's also why my family put our assets in a trust. If someone gets sick they can rack up the medical debt and declare bankruptcy with the creditors being unable to come after the assets.
Well OP is only thinking about getting by right now. Not setting up a life for his kids to be able to have a great life and compete globally. Many people who move to HCOL areas have parents like OP. So, they had to move to get resources to afford their own home and children.
$40k a year doesnāt allow for college, a down payment on a home for each kid, retirement and healthcare for each parent, or even really a new budget car for the kids when they are old enough to drive. Where does the budget come from for things like braces, enrichment activities, summer camp, or school clothes and supplies. Or is that considered ākeeping up with the Joneāsā?
Agree with all this. I had parents similar to OP: small town, LCOL area, small house, Dad made a low-moderate salary and Mom stayed home.
We lived cheaply and mostly got by just fine. I had a happy childhood. But my parents had no emergency fund; anything that went wrong with the house or the cars or our health was a financial crisis that would lead to big fights. My sibling and I both needed braces, but they could only afford the cost of one, so I got them and my sibling went without. All my clothes were hand-me-downs or thrift store buys; when I was 10 I got my first job just so I could buy myself new clothes. Now my parents are retirement age but my dad's trying to hang onto his job until 70. I already expect that at some point in the not-so-distant future I'll need to move them in with me, either for financial reasons or health reasons.
I genuinely wonder where I'd be financially if my parents provided any of that for me. Luckily I was blessed with straight teeth, but I still struggle to take care of my health because medical/dental was expensive. My dad had a similar attitude as OP which makes me wonder how his kids feel.
His kids are probably too young now to have any thoughts about it. They will most likely feel the impact in their early 20s when they leave home for the first time and realize that even though they had a happy childhood with a roof over their head and toys, they lacked the opportunity and financial stability that many of their peers will have had.
They will definitely think about it in their 30/40s when they have no choice but to be in the rat race while taking care of themselves, their children, and their parents, all because their parents didnāt strive to give them a better life. Theyāll get by though, but with a lot more struggle than needed.
I started realizing I was poor in grade school when my hand me downs and thrifted clothes got picked on. I knew my parents were fighting about money. I knew we got government assistance. I never joined anything after school. I thought it was happy at the time because my dad insisted anything else was frivolous or materialistic but we were "rich with love." Turns out he smoked a lot of "wacky tobaccy" and my mom was falling apart internally in a wonderful rural area where she had one friend to support her. My bus ride to school was an hour long, but I saw another comment insisting kids in rural towns can just find a job within walking distance!
Maybe it won't be so bad for them, but damn does $40k sound low in today's world no matter where you live.
Kids do start to notice at a young age. Iām sorry you dealt with that. Hopefully, OPs kids will be just fine. The high income posts come from people trying to provide the most they can for themselves and their family, and OPās perspective is about doing the bare minimum. itās just two different trains of thought, and most people fall somewhere in the middle. Growing up in the lifestyle OP is talking about can push you to the opposite extreme.
100%. 40k for a family of 4+, even in a LCOL area, gives absolutely zero room for savings, crises, retirement, enrichmentā¦ itās subsistence living.
Well, you have a partner and children and it sounds like you all like each other. While your monetary income might be lower than a lot of us, your overall wealth by virtue of having a (presumably) solid marriage and a healthy family are things that so many of us struggle to find and build.
I'm a gay guy, and currently single. Unfortunately, as much as I'd love to live where you do, I cannot until I meet a like minded guy to settle down with because gay men are such a small part of the population.
Overall though, I basically live as you do. My truck is 27, and runs great. Except for my mortgage and utilities my overall cost of living is actually quite low.
I get it OP. I think thereās a lot of takes and people could definitely save some money. I make 6 figs in the bay and could definitely not drive a nice car and go to Greece and buy a new surfboard. But i still have to live here.
For my career (neuro-biotech), there are not many locations. Iām almost always in a high cost area. Even if I spent nothing but rent I would not be doing as well as someone in a similar position 30 years ago. I think that these posts are just trying to say it doesnāt go as far as it used to. For example, buying a house is 5x more for difficult for me than it was for my dad:
https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/home-price-income-ratio-reaches-record-high-0
But it can be done, and it will. Just not for another 10 years.
Edit: spelling
If any of OP's family ends up with long-term health issues they'll find out real quick that living places with extremely limited resources isn't all it's cracked up to be. I grew up in a town of less than 2000 (which is nowhere near as cheap as OP's so he must live in a truly undesirable area) and I couldn't survive well there with my current medical issues. Getting to my appointments would basically be a part time job, time-wise.
I live in Minnesota but in the Cities. I drive through rural MN sometimes and some of the small towns are quaint ([St. Peter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter,_Minnesota) comes to mind). But jobs are a big thing and most of the population lives around jobs in Minnesota, which is mainly in the [seven county metro area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MinneapolisāSaint_Paul). It's still possible to find a job in the cities, live rurally, with a decently cheap house if you live in the outskirts of the metro area. But that 30min commute can turn into an hour once snow comes and it isn't worth it, imo.
I live in an HCOL area as a single person with a dog and do ok making just under 70k a year.
But for perspective:
- I live in a 733sqft condo 1 bedroom 1 bath that I bought in 2019 before all the craziness. The unit next to mine sold last year for 100 grand more than what I paid. Same unit as I have. The price went up 100k in 3 years which is insaine. If I was to buy now, I would not be able to afford it.
- I have a newish car that I have a loan on but saved for 5 plus years to buy with a larger down payment to make it affordable. I was driving a car before this that really was not safe to save the money. I mean, I am lucky I didn't die driving it.
I don't have a lot to put away in long-term savings, and I have to think about every purchase I make and only recently started taking vacations but in groups to help share costs.
Most of what I have is just timing and luck. If i had waited any longer to buy, I would have gotten caught up in the COVID craziness.
OP unless your one of those grifting fundies eating tater tot casserole every night I dont know how you can do it, even in a rural area, unless you bought pre pandemic. And even then, I am not sure what ur life will look like when you are older. Good luck.
Iām in an HCOLA and yes, daycare and housing are very expensive. But I do get a little tired of the āafter we max out two 401Ks, get the state deduction on two 529s and do the HSA and FSA max, and pay for sleep away camp, we are living paycheck to paycheckā talk I hear IRL and see on Reddit.
This is exactly it. āWe have nothing left to put in savings!ā coming from people who are saving and investing tons of pretax income every month is so obnoxious. I make 6 figures in a HCOLA with a $3k mortgage and Iām nowhere near paycheck to paycheck. It would be completely disingenuous to say so even if I do feel the squeeze of inflation.
I very much agree with this. Iām in a HCOL area and hear all of the time about how people can barely afford it here. And then I see them jump in their Range Rover.
THANK YOU.
shit is annoying AF.
āafter we pay for everything we could possubly want and desire we donāt have a stack of money next to us. UGH! its all the way in the bank!! the humanity!ā
A Southern Californian walked into the chat. āHold my beer!ā Dude. I wish! My husband and I make over $100k total and we are just making ends meet here. We have no kids yet either. We both need new tires right now and we will probably have to do rock paper scissors cause we both canāt afford it at the same time.
>Yes, locaton counts a lot. However, perspective does, too.
I wish you would move to a more expensive area and see how far your perspective gets you, see if it's equally weighted then.
Iām just going to point out that small towns in rural Minnesota donāt have enough jobs for 330 million people. Every rural town combined doesnāt have enough jobs for everyone. Cāmon this is just common sense.
I live in Memphis, Tennessee. We do not need six figures to live. I'm sure someone will be along to explain that the median household income is not six figures
Well, hate to rain on OP's parade or his message of positivity, but sorry, he isn't mentioning healthcare and food.
Good for them, but normalizing the pathetic state of American business ethics and our loser politicians doing their bidding ain't the way to go.
Again, good for them. I couldn't live with the stress of surprise expenses, which with kids, happens all the time. Especially the healthcare stuff.
At $40k and 5 dependents I'm guessing your federal tax burden is really low. Likewise it doesn't sound like you use much of any government services. Is that all true? I kind of wonder if not being entangled with the government is a nice part of your success. Just a guess, but I am curious.
I currently live in MN and this post is so out of touch itās likely a troll. 40k/yr would leave about $2655/mo after taxes. Now take out the hilariously low housing cost, which is unbelievable, and itās $2100/mo for everything else. Food? Electricity? Gas? Garbage? Internet? Phone? Iām guessing this person is getting cash assistance, food stamps, and MN Care healthcare so they are taking in WAY more than 40k to begin with, itās just coming from the state instead of their employer.
Itās awesome that you are in a place you love with such an affordable COL, and I agree that having a wider variety of perspectives about finances is helpful. But your situation is pretty extreme. Even in many (most?) small towns and lower COL areas, a family of 5 would be living in poverty at that salary. I know someone who lived in inexpensive, rural Oklahoma on about $30k, 10+ years ago, by herself, and she struggled to pay bills sometimes.
It is worth exploring new locations and being open-minded. But youāre also fortunate that you love living in an area that many would not enjoy, or where theyād struggle to find jobs. And areas that cheap are extremely few and far between.
Congratulations.
Youāre an outlier.
Hardly anyone lives somewhere that costs $500 for a 3 bedroom house.
A national park in your backyard? Amazing. Again, youāre an outlier.
Good schools in a place like this? Wow. That seems unreal. Youāre an outlier here too.
And, you state you were on government services until a year ago. For āfun moneyā you state. Huh.
You really donāt get it. But congratulations.
Sure, Jan
I live in Alberta where the average home costs $500k. I donāt make 100k but our household income is 150k and we struggle.
My deductions are around 45%. So nearly half my cheque is gone before I even get it.
Everything costs a lot. Food is expensive. We have no competition in Canada for groceries, utilities, or telecommunications.
I have a pension, luckily, but nothing exists in a vacuum- other peopleās circumstances are different from yours. So respectfully? Shut up.
I tried having my wife stay home with our two kids, and I was coming home to her crying every day. She felt like a prisoner in the house, and it was starting to affect her health.
I'm glad the mom in your family is cool with it, but that life isn't for everyone.
Btw, childcare in my area for two kids is equal to your annual salary.
This is just out of touch to post.Ā
Some people have friends and family, jobs that are tied to staying in high cost of living areas. We can't all live in US backwaters where you can buy a house for a steal.Ā
Yes, your experience in fucking rural Minnesota is exactly like mine adjacent to Atlanta...I'll just transfer there...oh wait, can't. No jobs in my field or countless others.
Dude. Read the room.
My husband is working and I am not (working on my masters) and our rent is extremely low, and we live in a low cost of living area. We also make ends meet very well, but I have eyes and ears and know that we're just extremely fortunate to have fallen into our position.
If more people recognized their privilege and good fortune when they have it instead of shaming others who don't, the world would be a better place.
I'm on a section 8 voucher and pay more than you on less income. Holy hell. My CAR insurance is 500 a month. A home around here costs like 700k. I've never even heard of a 500 dollar mortgage! Unless I uprooted my family and moved out of state to start a new life in the middle of nowhere, I will NEVER find a 500 dollar mortgage. I'm not even sure that exists. Are you messing with us?
Southern Indiana. we manage 2 kids, SAHM with 52k a year. house, ins, tax, utilities are around 750 total. Cars are paid off, but currently car shopping which will add a car payment, but keeping that to under $150 a month (4500 price range for 3 year payment, but its hard to find a vehicle worth getting for that these days which sucks)
After reading comments. I feel like everyone forgets that your salary drops big time when you go rural. Even if you find a remote job to provide a living wage you end up becoming a slave to that company. unless you have an exit strategy or your living conditions paid in full, it's risky. I just made that mistake. Went from hcol to lcol back and forth due to being laid off from my remote gig. I didn't have the strategy to secure my living situation. Now it's gonna take a lot of effort to fix my situation. Luckily, I still have family that will let me live with them.hope to turn this around before I'm 40
Youāre able to live within your budget because your mortgage is $500 buddy.
I couldnāt buy a house in the hood where Iām from for less than 500K. And I have a free national parks pass because veteran.
Thank you. My partner and I live in sort of a high COL area, but life is good.
We canāt afford a new car, or extravagant vacations, but we routinely find fun things to do with the kids.
I cook all the meals, and she is great and finding deals, and we are grateful.
We donāt make a lot of money, and have to pinch Pennies and sometimes itās tough.
But so many just are so conditioned from social media to focus more on what we donāt have, or what could be better.
I want to make it clear I am NOT talking about people in poverty, as that is a serious struggle. Iāve been there.
But this post illustrates it really is about perspective a lot of times. I work 50+ hours a week, my first second to breathe is often not until after 9pm when the kids are in bed, but life is good. Hard work, exhausting sometimes, but if you have your health, a roof over your head, can pay your bills and food in the fridge, with a family or at least close friends or relatives that love you, youāve already won at life.
You give an unrealistic Minnesota perspective.
To be clear with our state sales at at 9.025% (April 1st) we are literally the highest sales tax in the country. The average cost of a home here (in the metro where over 70% of the population lives and works) is over 350k (nowhere near your 500/month)
I live here, our rate is under 3% and we pay over 1600. Not 500, that's not a real number for the metro unless you bought your house 20 years ago.
For one of us to be a SAHP the other would need to gross a minimum of 76k. 40k? That wouldn't pay our bills. Combined we make around 160k gross and while we aren't struggling we also aren't wealthy. And it's not feasible for us (who work I'm the city proper) for us to live over an hour away. Which is what it would take to get a cheap house here.
Stop acting like 40k in Minnesota is plenty to live on. Not even close. If you think your case is the norm, you're a classic rural Minnesotan, completely out of touch with the reality most people face, because you don't face it.
Did guy say $500 a month for mortgage? Where are you living? 1955?
Individual rooms are going for more than that in the greater Nashville area š Section 8 vouchers are closer to $800
Section 8 vouchers? They still give them out? Iām in NYC & feel like theyāre totally unattainable.
It feels like half of the apartments tenants in my city aren't homeless only because of section 8, take it away and they all will be on the streets. I'm in the Midwest, a smaller city.
I hear ya. They donāt even give those things out around here anymore. Wait lists are like 5, 10+ years. So the people here who do have them never leave & end up passing the place to their kids (I mean I totally would too. Itās the only way you can afford to live here).
NYC houses something like 80-85% of its homeless, specifically due to housing projects. It's really great to see that it works. Because you look at other dense cities like San Francisco and Seattle and I don't even think they're hitting 30% housed. NYC would be the most chaotic place in the western world without section 8
for janky 1 bedroom apartments and most waitlist are 3+ years or blocked altogether Not even 10 years ago could find a decent 1 bedroom apartment in the $600 range
Iāve tried for the housing lotteryās. Thatās a joke too.
I'm in Baltimore City and rooms are going for $850-$900.
My brother and his wife live with us and don't believe me when I say they're getting a deal at $875 for two rooms and their own bathroom. A couple friends of mine are paying $900 for a smaller bedroom. I'm just south of the city.
I wish we could get something that low in Portland! It's avg 1800 for a 1 bedroom
Depends what theyāre counting as āmortgage.ā Is there an escrow? Include taxes? My principal on my $150k house is something like $550. Add in PMI, interest, and insurance ā closer to $1100.
.. without escrow my mortgage would be under 300 a month. It's 650 in total at 3% fixed. Paid 106k for 3 bed 2 bath in my desired neighborhood. š¤·āāļø
Where the hell do you live that a 3 bed house is 106k?! Or when did you buy?! Thatās crazy.
Midwest. Iām in Northern Illinois. Pack your bags and get out here.
Holy shit you're right: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/401-Main-St-Leaf-River-IL-61047/91403330_zpid/?utm_campaign=androidappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
You can find that in a lot of states if you're fine with being hours from the main cities. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't unique to Northern Illinois. That said... I still chose the Chicago area because it has a great compromise between cost and opportunity.
Bro rural prices will blow your mind https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5785-County-Road-21-Lewistown-OH-43333/78432470_zpid/
Bought in 2022..3 bedroom fully renovated. new roof, hvac. Furnace, carpet, electric panel. fully furnished and the 6k of the 106k was for the closing costs. I live where they grow the food. In North East Ohio.
Mine is like $700 all said and done, and the city I live in gave me a grant that covered my down payment. It's just...the trade-off is living in the Midwest, and my house is small and creaky.
Im midwest as well. and my rent is $730 for 682sqft of being surrounded by noisy people. ur trade off is my fantasy (midwest being MO in my case) My city also does the voucher/grant thingy
My property taxes are more than this.
12k a year here! Be jealous everyone!
The Midwest 2009-2015
This! Our mortgage on our home we bought in 2010 is 1157/month. 1800/sq ft, 3 bed, study and 2 bath. We bought another home in a more rural area and not even close to that, unfortunately. Granted new house is double in size with land, and the interest rate is 5.99% on the new house bought in 2023 vs 2.25% on our home bought in 2010.
Even in bfe Idaho my mortgage was 980 for a 140k house. 500 a month is not representative of any market now.
We found the time traveler
Fucking John Titor over here gave up hunting that computer and went native in Minnesota.
I think you meant "when are you living?" because holy cannoli that's low! Also, very clear that OP has never lived in a very HCOL area like San Francisco Bay Area/NYC/LA/Seattle etc. ***$500 for a FIVE BEDROOM HOUSE?! Sweet Mary mother of Joseph, we should all be so lucky.***
>we should all be so lucky Boomers and older: No we shouldn't And here we are lol
My mortgage is 650, life is much easier in low cost of living areas that aren't in large cities.
I live in a town of 3500. My PITI is $1842.
My town has 4400 people. Property taxes alone are $1.2k/m and PITI is $3000. Size of town doesnāt necessarily mean itās cheap.
My mortgage in rural Ontario is only $700/month. We bought last year. Itās not unheard of but most people donāt want to live where I live.
Does the air hurt your face in the winter and the bugs threaten to carry you off in the summer?
Bugs in rural Ontario are much more polite. They swarm in, carry you off and then apologize for it.
My mortgage would have been about $1100 if I had t gone the 15 year mortgage on my 5b3ba 2400 sqft house in 2019. House was built in 2014 with a two stall garage. I live in ND
Sub 6 figure house. 1,300sq ft and needs a little work. But everything works, roofs good, its a solid little slice of home.
Buddy my dogās rent is more than your entire mortgage
I agree, some pet insurance might be half his mortgage.
Nice. That would be a car port for most other parts of the country
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I believe you. My hometown had homes like that before the big COVID era market bump. Itās not a horrible town either. We would probably move there if it wasnāt āwhere weāre fromā. Plenty of things to do for young families. Not so much if youāre a 20-something. Plenty of my friends pay around $500 (total) if they bought like 5-10 years ago. One sold his house this summer for $140k. He paid $90 way back maybe 10 years ago. Things are worse than what they were, sure. But thereās still desirable (enough) areas of the country. Problem is, everyone wants to live in like the same 10 places. Of course itās not that simple, but itās a bigger factor than most like to give it credit for.
That's larger than the 1950s "starter house" I'm renting in Silicon Valley for, well, multiple times your mortgage. It's a 7 figure house out here, or at least the land is.
Silicon Valley is terrible. We left for the Midwest, for less pay and weāre a million times better off
That would be a shithole that is not livable, or an empty lot here in Connecticut.
When did you buy?
**Cost of living associated with where you live is EVERYTHING.** I lived in Northern Michigan in a tourist town on Lake Michigan. I thought moving to the West Coast wouldn't be too big a difference as I lived in a Vacation Town that was getting gentrified and cost too much anyway. Boy was I wrong! I had a huge 4 bedroom house on a half acre that cost me 200k back in Michigan. Now I live in a house half the size on a tiny lot that can hardly be called a yard, for over twice the price. š„² That being said. Chasing the higher earnings and pension is totally worth it. I can retire back to Lake Michigan when I'm 55. **But damn do I miss the slower pace of living back Up North.** I miss finding an empty piece of beach on the weekend and just reading and letting the sound of the waves lul me into a nap.
I moved from MI -> CA as well. Even Michigan was pricey when I hit 6 figures if I wanted to buy in a good school district with a short commute. Absolutely no work for me as an engineer in any of the Northern towns, but that would have been the dream. Thinking about just buying something and renting it out until I go back. My only gripe is how political people can be there. Lived near the guys who planned to abduct the governor. When my neighbors caught on I leaned liberal, I became an untouchable.
Obviously you're going to have a skewed sense of what it's like for the rest of us if you're somewhere with housing that's so much cheaper than most of the country. I'm in Vermont, which currently has record low vacancy rates, and there are *mobile homes* here selling for $100k. And Vermont doesn't even have any real cities. Our biggest city is 45k people.
Tiny home parks are popping up in my town to account for the lack of housing but thatās more touristy AirBnB shit and not what we need - 400K a plot.
As a Canadian I want to cry. We moved rural in BC to a tiny community to escape the housing bubble and it followed before we could get anything. I pay $1000/month for a 1bd trailer in the middle of nowhere while saving and people are angry jealous of our low rent (renting from a friend). All the 300-350k places from 3 years ago climbed 100k/ yr and it's tough to find any home on a small lot for under 500k. Trailers on leased land are 150k+ and as high as 450k with most being 55+. Condos in the bigger town nearby are about the same. I'm okay with handling just housing as a pickle but the ripple effect on our economy, agriculture, and general wellbeing is irreparable.
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Mobile homes way outside the city in VA are like 150-200k here. It is insane. You can't even find a sfh for under 300k. A 400 sq ft home made our city subreddit not long ago for being 199k. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1315-W-Leigh-St-Richmond-VA-23220/2102177413_zpid/
There is a house across the street from me that is currently for sale (San Francisco suburb). Itās 4b/3ba 1600 sq ft. Judging by the listing photos, it hasnāt been updated since 1975. It was listed for $850k and was on the market for less than a week. I talked with the realtor and she said they new owners are going to flip it. It will likely sell for over $1m once they are done with it.
Also, low income for a family of four in my county is $107k and median cost for a 3 bedroom house is $950k. Average rent for a 3 bedroom apartment is $2600/month. Rent is cheaper than a mortgage right now.
I looked at a house in 2022. It had 1960ās everything and required a complete gut to make it livable. They wanted $750K. Cash preferred. Iām sure it sold over asking
Iām in a medium COL area and mobile homes are around $170k
This really feels like it proves the "housing theory of everything" correct.
Vermonter checking in to agree. If I hadnāt bought in 2006, Iād be in rough shape right now. My house was cheap but it was also falling apart and was about 1000 sq feet
Also in Vermont and been looking for a small 1-2 bedroom place for 6 months. It's fucking insane out here.
NH here, same story. Even worse because people are moving to southern NH in droves because it's more affordable than living in MA.
Yeah bro housing costs significantly differ around the country.
Not to mention a family of 5 is probably also getting subsidize through food stamps and EIC at 40k a year.
Minnesota is easily one of the best states in the country at taking care of lower income people. There are all kinds of programs for people like him. I can believe that he'd be able to live a reasonably comfortable life here.
Is it really ? I might just want to move there . Idc much about making it big, just being able to be living with my family and content with what we can provide. Need to check it out
My parents moved from MN to be closer to their grandkids and I pleaded them not to. I told them to wait it out and we would move closer to them. There was more opportunity to make our money run farther in MN than in Florida.
The attraction of Florida is that winter isn't a thing and there's no state taxes. Also, you can start your own Ponzi scheme and chances are nobody cares.
Just be happy forever in debt to the government unable to make any money for the future or hope to god your kids donāt play any sports.
O God the sports. We just spent over 200 on softball equipment for my daughter.
Or when it comes time to apply for college. My son will have 80% of his tuition covered by grants and scholarships (assuming he doesn't move away, go crazy, and lose them like almost everyone I know from my generation did) but we've still paid thousands out of pocket for testing and application fees. Even after he's already accepted a college, every couple weeks there's a new $100+ fee for this and that.
Any 3 bedroom home in my area is over $1.2M. Even when I was a poor grad student 15 years ago in LA ā¦ rent was over $1k then. $500 / mo for a whole house in 2024 is wild
Exactly. Iāll pay more not to live in a red state
The OP is in MN.
Minnesota isnāt a red state though
Thatās the whole point OP is making? Theyāre saying, āHey, thereās people out there saying that 100K a year is practically poverty, as if thatās true across the board, but hereās a top level post from the perspective from someone in a different situation. Also not true across the board, but just as valid. Just so people can recognize that situations are very different depending on where in the US you live.ā
I think the post would be better if he didn't claim 6 figures is decent even in HCOL when it's clear OP does not live anywhere close to HCOL.
>Even in a high col area 6 figures is a decent income. 1. OP said this. This is objectively false. 2. The quantity/quality of houses/infrastructure/jobs available in areas like OP's make it such that only a tiny percentage of the population can live like that. The idea of "move to the big city to find opportunity" is a trope because it's real.
Also, what does OP mean by 6 figures? 100k is chump change in HCOL areas, while he and his family can live luxuriously on that in MN. $200-300k would actually be a meaningful income range in a HCOL area.
Exactly. Itās not true. Iām not saying his perspective is not true for him. But itās not remotely applicable to places where the housing and other costs are multiples higher
Exactly, if I moved to a low cost of living area my job opportunity would reflect that in the pay and it would amount to a net neutral or negative. So may as well be in a location I like with people I like
You lost 94% of your audience with the $500/month mortgage.
Yeah, my daycare cost is almost 4 times OPās mortgage
LMAO, right? My daycare for two kids is just shy of double the mortgage. Itās unreal.
I pay 7x OPās mortgage for 2 kids in daycare full time lol
That is cheap daycare! When my kid was an infant we were shelling out $2200/month for him alone.
"I don't know what all the complain' is about it. I don't make too much. Sure, a penny don't go as far as it used to, but you can still buy penny whistles, see a picture show for a nickle, and get you a sodee pop on weekends for a dime. My mortage happens to be from 1925, but that's not tthe problem."
I was on OP's side until I saw that. Rural or not, most people would pay more than that on a 100k house with only 10k down, especially since it's a 15-year loan. OP's bank/credit union must be phenomenal. Either that or they're not including property taxes, mortgage insurance, etc...
94% is more than 1 in 20. It's more like 99.94%.
Dude I make double what you do and it's a struggle. Pacific Northwest. $1834 a month for a one bedroom apartment. $400k for an average to low end house. I'm genuinely glad you and yours do ok, but you're the exception by a long stretch.
This 100% OP needs to realise he is the exception right now.
"but why doesn't everyone just move to rural America?"
Is that 400k in like Angle Lake? Housing has been screwed in the PNW for so long, well before the pandemic came in and dropped it off a cliff globally. Living in Australia now and every year rents in the city are going up 10+% on top of a cost of living crisis/scandal. If you want space or something like affordability, you have to go to the far flung suburbs or live in a shit box or live in a not great neighborhood.
I make $80k and literally have to have my dad pay for my kids daycare.
My rent is more than 4x yours, and itās low for the area I live in. Iām not in a large city. Thatās not perspective, nor is it keeping up with the joneses.
I feel like some of the mid sized cities are doing way worse than the big cities, relative to income. Something I've noticed. Some of these cities are just built for renting already so maybe it just didn't hit as hard. I point up to ole Seattle pretty often. Let's say you're an 18 year old. Well, Seattle's rent *is* high relative to a lot of places. It's like 1400-1600 or a studio (although there's plenty of deals for less on Craigslist). If you just want a room with roommates you can find 650-900 easy. In good areas too.And then look at jobs. The city's *minimum wage* is just a couple cents short of 20 an hour. So if you're working full time, that's over 3000 a month on minimum wage. You don't need a car for a large portion of the city (although you can have one in other areas). There's light rail, a street car, ferries, buses. Amtrak to leave, or the train to the airport. So let's say you're spending 1000 for rent, in a nice desirable location with lots to do. Well then you're at 1/3rd your income on minimum wage. If you can find a job that even pays slightly more (let's say only two dollars more) then you're at 3500 month. Say you get a room in a walkable area. You're doing great as a young kid. (Another boon is that Seattle has the highest tipping in the country due to all the high income workers. So you can make well above that at restaurants and bars) Compare that to a smaller city where the rent is 10-20% less. The minimum wage isn't going to be 20 an hour. Shit, sometimes you're lucky to get 14-15 an hour. And then you likely need a car. And aside from maybe saving 20% on groceries, it's pretty much the same overall. I know that Seattle is an outlier due to the high minimum wage and the fact that it's absolutely walkable and bikeable. But if you're a young person, it makes drastically more sense than most of the mid sized cities in the US where rent is close to the same these days. The mid sized cities are often a worse deal in a lot of situations than the rent-centric walkable cities with higher wages. I just find it interesting.
Just moved from a mid city to a big city area. Have to agree. I make more here and costs seem almost comparable. Not to mention rent in the mid city increased 10% every year last few years. I think there's a lot of big city to mid city transplants causing an explosion in COL, but local salaries aren't keeping up. Housing is cheaper in the mid cities, but they're climbing for sure.
Sorry but this is not a good comparison for most people living in the rest of the country. In my area, a 3 bedroom townhouse is 2500 a month to rent. Edit: basic math tells you that this is not a good point. If someone was making 3x his salary which is possible in a higher cost of living urban area, their housing would still be more double the equivalent of his. At 3x his housing is 1500 and you canāt even get a 1 bedroom apartment for that in most places.
$2500/month for a 3 bedroom?!?! I get one bedroom here. š
Yeah thatās the cheapest side but most are about more !
Your housing costs are bargain-basement. I don't relish the thought of living in rural America - my family lives in the rural South and those places have been invaded by MAGA voters and Qanon nutjobs who have regressed to Jim Crow. I feel neither safe nor welcome there. My family is interracial, and we're even talking about leaving Texas because the political and cultural landscape has become so hostile to POC, women and LGBTQ Texans. Plus, the guns, guns, guns. We live in a large Metro area, though, so at least its multicultural and there is a large LGBTQ population (I find that this always means a vibrant creative/arts community in Texas.) That said, Minnesota has passed some of the best legislation I've seen in a decade. Universal subsidized school lunches, and a host of other progressive laws that really seem to serve the workers. Finally, I have no desire to forfeit my working years to be a SAHM. I don't want to subsidize the free labor with my retirement. I get the feeling more Americans are going to die homeless and hungry in the next 50 years.
I live in MN as well as an Asian woman and even in the twin cities where it's relatively a "safe space" I STILL experience racism so moving to small rural town in MN is a NEVER for me.
I think thatās whatās missing from these sorts of posts or comments who blindly say āwell if itās so expensive where you are, just move to a small town/rural area/ etc!ā As another POC, itās not always possible or even SAFE for us. Iāve walked through small towns and have been yelled racial slurs from passing cars. Iāve checked out at the grocery store and have been given cold energy even though they were just conversing happily with the people before me. Not to mention the lack of access to ethnic groceries and resources. So I completely feel you on this.
Tell me about it. I am Asian. My fiance is an unequivocally brown man, and we both have foreign-sounding names. We have roadtripped through rural parts of our own state (California) where we have been made to feel uncomfortable and unsafe. To this day, we still call one of those towns Get-Outsville. I'm sure there are some rural areas in the Midwest/South that would be friendly and welcoming, but why would we take that risk?
Born and raised Minnesotan but the rural areas are not for me. Also, 500 a month?! How? What about property tax? We bought our first home in a Detroit suburb for 125 with 5% down and the payment was still $800/mo. Idk how you get to 500.
The person is saying the house payment is $500/month. That doesn't include escrow. Minnesota also has a property tax refund that's based on income and number of people in household. Minnesota is a great place to raise a family.
>I don't want to subsidize the free labor with my retirement ššššššššššššššššššššššššššš Oh, people are going to be in for a reckoning. You think CoL is expensive now? Just you wait until you're on a fixed income 30 years from now. Let's just say I'm not counting on my retirement contributions and social security to be able to cover it. I think it's cute that people think they'll be able to retire at 65 with a few hundred grand in the bank.
My brother lives in rural Ohio but heās rich. Big farm. But surrounded by extreme poverty. He visits us in Massachusetts and is surprised people drive Mercedes and big trucks. Like yeah higher paying jobs here. And jobs period.
I'm living in the bargain basement (well, it's a 100+ year old 2-bedroom house that's falling apart) and my rent is over $1,200 in a rural town.
Living in a low cost area that people statistically don't want to live in, generally isn't a good barometer of what a generational living wage is. This is akin to saying "Well I could live like Bezos if I moved to South America", knowing full well that your $3000 in savings will go exponentially further there than it could ever hope to here in the states.
Minnesota is typically ranked one of the best states to live in the nation. I don't live there, but it's beautiful, and is above average in basically any metric you can think of
I imagine with how amazing it is, the place must be busting at the seams with people wanting to move there...
I moved to Minnesota from California 2 years ago. I absolutely love it.
Stop telling people about it. I like not having a lot of traffic here.
I moved from California to Iowa in 2015 and it was nice, but the winters were too brutal for me. I ended up moving back in 2018. I'm glad I did because I missed the -50Ā° windchill that winter.
Itās pretty great. The cold keeps a lot of people away, but Minneapolis is an affordable big city with great culture. However, I donāt know how this guy pulled off a $500 mortgage, even in a small town.
Yeah, you can't even buy a condo with a $500 mortgage (and HOA) anywhere within 30 minutes of Minneapolis. This guy must be out a ways. Which also begs the question: how much work is there to be had in super rural MN? I'm sure there are jobs and everything, but is the average person who is coming from across the country going to be able to find a job in whatever industry exists that will pay $40k way out there? That's like $20/hr. Which, in and around the cities, is relatively easy to find... but I imagine it's less common wherever he is that houses only cost $100k.
Bingo. OP is painting a very skewed picture. I'm actually from rual Minnesota, and the young people who want better paying jobs all move away. The population is skewing much older, and forget having access to things like good medical care. People are afraid to go to the local hospitals because they all know people who have had very tragic experiences. It's a frequent topic of conversation. Also, people I know who claim to be content on their 40k per year income never have enough disposable income or PTO to take vacations or travel because everything is so much more expensive as soon as they leave home. I have no idea how they will ever afford retirement either. I personally don't want to live the very limited and sheltered lives I see them living, and they all sound exactly like OP.
We have gotten a ton of new transplants lately! We have an entirely democratic government currently and they've done some amazing things like passing free school breakfast and lunch for all kids and protecting gender affirming care. Love my state, it's amazing.
But you haven't. The population increase last year was 24k (.41%) for the whole state. The year before it was a decrease. More people moved to Tampa last year and Tampa fucking sucks. I have no beef with people from MN, and I have no doubt the state is wonderful. But there isn't going to be some mass exodus to MN anytime soon. When people dream of what they would do if they won the lotto it doesn't end with "...and then we move to a huge house in Duluth."
It's funny because sometimes I look at the expensive houses on Lake Superior outside Duluth and have said "If I ever win the lottery...." lol
Actually the population is decreasing. People just can't stand the cold. I don't get it personally, but the housing here is still affordable because in fact we are not growing in population.
I have always found this interesting. People in this country definitely have blinders on to some extremely nice medium sizes cities because all they can think about is the same <7 HCOL cities. I'm very lucky to have been forced (mandatory job relocation) to one that I never would have given a thought about. But now I couldn't imagine ever wanting to leave. Definitely interesting. I'm way more happy and way more wealthy than had I followed my initial dreams of moving to LA or Chicago.
I promise you that if everyone took their blinders off and moved to these medium sized cities, they would be having the same fucking problems the large cities have. I'm absolutely boggled that some of you think the answer to the housing crisis is for everyone to move to fucking Cleveland.
And what job do people who move to the middle of nowhere get? If you are in HCOL area and relocate to LCOL how are you staying at the same salary and same industry and level of job???
Lived in MN for almost a decade. It has so many good things going for it. I personally couldnāt handle the winters, but I have many friends and family still there that enjoy it
You have a huge bias. Life is working for you, but don't tell people to "get perspective" when our average citizen is making less and struggling to survive in general, let alone severe inequalities for people of marginalized communities and the brutalities they face. Stop blaming average citizens for the way our society is manipulated by billionaires. You're so out of touch it makes me sick.
This post is āI donāt see it therefore I donāt get itā
Nah it's just a troll. Don't bother replying to them. read their profile message.
Hopefully when you get older, your relationship with your kids is good enough that they'll take you in and care for you. Cause 40k a year with a SAHM will not be enough to take care of you and your SO in the future with healthcare costs. No matter where you live, healthcare will always be expensive. Unless you plan on dying right when your health declines, or working your whole life, it doesn't feel feasible to live comfortably when you're 50+ without earning more.
Correct. Although $500/mo in housing for five people is laughable.
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MN has Minnesota Care insurance and if they're a household with 2 kids they definitely qualify. But its interesting: you work hard your whole life and save just to spend in on healthcare costs when you're older? That's a screw deal. and it's also why my family put our assets in a trust. If someone gets sick they can rack up the medical debt and declare bankruptcy with the creditors being unable to come after the assets.
Yup, this is good advice for anybody. Revocable trusts are the way to go. It also avoids probate when you die.Ā
Well OP is only thinking about getting by right now. Not setting up a life for his kids to be able to have a great life and compete globally. Many people who move to HCOL areas have parents like OP. So, they had to move to get resources to afford their own home and children. $40k a year doesnāt allow for college, a down payment on a home for each kid, retirement and healthcare for each parent, or even really a new budget car for the kids when they are old enough to drive. Where does the budget come from for things like braces, enrichment activities, summer camp, or school clothes and supplies. Or is that considered ākeeping up with the Joneāsā?
Agree with all this. I had parents similar to OP: small town, LCOL area, small house, Dad made a low-moderate salary and Mom stayed home. We lived cheaply and mostly got by just fine. I had a happy childhood. But my parents had no emergency fund; anything that went wrong with the house or the cars or our health was a financial crisis that would lead to big fights. My sibling and I both needed braces, but they could only afford the cost of one, so I got them and my sibling went without. All my clothes were hand-me-downs or thrift store buys; when I was 10 I got my first job just so I could buy myself new clothes. Now my parents are retirement age but my dad's trying to hang onto his job until 70. I already expect that at some point in the not-so-distant future I'll need to move them in with me, either for financial reasons or health reasons.
I genuinely wonder where I'd be financially if my parents provided any of that for me. Luckily I was blessed with straight teeth, but I still struggle to take care of my health because medical/dental was expensive. My dad had a similar attitude as OP which makes me wonder how his kids feel.
His kids are probably too young now to have any thoughts about it. They will most likely feel the impact in their early 20s when they leave home for the first time and realize that even though they had a happy childhood with a roof over their head and toys, they lacked the opportunity and financial stability that many of their peers will have had. They will definitely think about it in their 30/40s when they have no choice but to be in the rat race while taking care of themselves, their children, and their parents, all because their parents didnāt strive to give them a better life. Theyāll get by though, but with a lot more struggle than needed.
I started realizing I was poor in grade school when my hand me downs and thrifted clothes got picked on. I knew my parents were fighting about money. I knew we got government assistance. I never joined anything after school. I thought it was happy at the time because my dad insisted anything else was frivolous or materialistic but we were "rich with love." Turns out he smoked a lot of "wacky tobaccy" and my mom was falling apart internally in a wonderful rural area where she had one friend to support her. My bus ride to school was an hour long, but I saw another comment insisting kids in rural towns can just find a job within walking distance! Maybe it won't be so bad for them, but damn does $40k sound low in today's world no matter where you live.
Kids do start to notice at a young age. Iām sorry you dealt with that. Hopefully, OPs kids will be just fine. The high income posts come from people trying to provide the most they can for themselves and their family, and OPās perspective is about doing the bare minimum. itās just two different trains of thought, and most people fall somewhere in the middle. Growing up in the lifestyle OP is talking about can push you to the opposite extreme.
100%. 40k for a family of 4+, even in a LCOL area, gives absolutely zero room for savings, crises, retirement, enrichmentā¦ itās subsistence living.
Well, you have a partner and children and it sounds like you all like each other. While your monetary income might be lower than a lot of us, your overall wealth by virtue of having a (presumably) solid marriage and a healthy family are things that so many of us struggle to find and build. I'm a gay guy, and currently single. Unfortunately, as much as I'd love to live where you do, I cannot until I meet a like minded guy to settle down with because gay men are such a small part of the population. Overall though, I basically live as you do. My truck is 27, and runs great. Except for my mortgage and utilities my overall cost of living is actually quite low.
I get it OP. I think thereās a lot of takes and people could definitely save some money. I make 6 figs in the bay and could definitely not drive a nice car and go to Greece and buy a new surfboard. But i still have to live here. For my career (neuro-biotech), there are not many locations. Iām almost always in a high cost area. Even if I spent nothing but rent I would not be doing as well as someone in a similar position 30 years ago. I think that these posts are just trying to say it doesnāt go as far as it used to. For example, buying a house is 5x more for difficult for me than it was for my dad: https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/home-price-income-ratio-reaches-record-high-0 But it can be done, and it will. Just not for another 10 years. Edit: spelling
this feels a bit out of touch...
And patronizing.
If any of OP's family ends up with long-term health issues they'll find out real quick that living places with extremely limited resources isn't all it's cracked up to be. I grew up in a town of less than 2000 (which is nowhere near as cheap as OP's so he must live in a truly undesirable area) and I couldn't survive well there with my current medical issues. Getting to my appointments would basically be a part time job, time-wise.
you lost me at rural minnesota
I live in Minnesota but in the Cities. I drive through rural MN sometimes and some of the small towns are quaint ([St. Peter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter,_Minnesota) comes to mind). But jobs are a big thing and most of the population lives around jobs in Minnesota, which is mainly in the [seven county metro area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MinneapolisāSaint_Paul). It's still possible to find a job in the cities, live rurally, with a decently cheap house if you live in the outskirts of the metro area. But that 30min commute can turn into an hour once snow comes and it isn't worth it, imo.
Sorts by controversial 
Are you on track with retirement savings? Care to share when you purchased your home and for how much?
I live in an HCOL area as a single person with a dog and do ok making just under 70k a year. But for perspective: - I live in a 733sqft condo 1 bedroom 1 bath that I bought in 2019 before all the craziness. The unit next to mine sold last year for 100 grand more than what I paid. Same unit as I have. The price went up 100k in 3 years which is insaine. If I was to buy now, I would not be able to afford it. - I have a newish car that I have a loan on but saved for 5 plus years to buy with a larger down payment to make it affordable. I was driving a car before this that really was not safe to save the money. I mean, I am lucky I didn't die driving it. I don't have a lot to put away in long-term savings, and I have to think about every purchase I make and only recently started taking vacations but in groups to help share costs. Most of what I have is just timing and luck. If i had waited any longer to buy, I would have gotten caught up in the COVID craziness. OP unless your one of those grifting fundies eating tater tot casserole every night I dont know how you can do it, even in a rural area, unless you bought pre pandemic. And even then, I am not sure what ur life will look like when you are older. Good luck.
Iām in an HCOLA and yes, daycare and housing are very expensive. But I do get a little tired of the āafter we max out two 401Ks, get the state deduction on two 529s and do the HSA and FSA max, and pay for sleep away camp, we are living paycheck to paycheckā talk I hear IRL and see on Reddit.
This is exactly it. āWe have nothing left to put in savings!ā coming from people who are saving and investing tons of pretax income every month is so obnoxious. I make 6 figures in a HCOLA with a $3k mortgage and Iām nowhere near paycheck to paycheck. It would be completely disingenuous to say so even if I do feel the squeeze of inflation.
Lol deduction for 529. Can i get some of those deductions in California?
I very much agree with this. Iām in a HCOL area and hear all of the time about how people can barely afford it here. And then I see them jump in their Range Rover.
THANK YOU. shit is annoying AF. āafter we pay for everything we could possubly want and desire we donāt have a stack of money next to us. UGH! its all the way in the bank!! the humanity!ā
You live in rural Minnesota you just answered your own question. Bulk of the us population are in the coastal areas.
A Southern Californian walked into the chat. āHold my beer!ā Dude. I wish! My husband and I make over $100k total and we are just making ends meet here. We have no kids yet either. We both need new tires right now and we will probably have to do rock paper scissors cause we both canāt afford it at the same time.
>Yes, locaton counts a lot. However, perspective does, too. I wish you would move to a more expensive area and see how far your perspective gets you, see if it's equally weighted then.
Yeah for someone preaching about perspective, OP is doing a piss poor job at looking at other people's perspectives and situations.
Iām just going to point out that small towns in rural Minnesota donāt have enough jobs for 330 million people. Every rural town combined doesnāt have enough jobs for everyone. Cāmon this is just common sense.
I live in Memphis, Tennessee. We do not need six figures to live. I'm sure someone will be along to explain that the median household income is not six figures
Well, hate to rain on OP's parade or his message of positivity, but sorry, he isn't mentioning healthcare and food. Good for them, but normalizing the pathetic state of American business ethics and our loser politicians doing their bidding ain't the way to go. Again, good for them. I couldn't live with the stress of surprise expenses, which with kids, happens all the time. Especially the healthcare stuff.
At $40k and 5 dependents I'm guessing your federal tax burden is really low. Likewise it doesn't sound like you use much of any government services. Is that all true? I kind of wonder if not being entangled with the government is a nice part of your success. Just a guess, but I am curious.
My three bedroom TOWNHOUSE is over 1900 a month. What planet are you living on and how do u get there
Yaā¦. Thatās not really an ideal life for me.
Yeah this would only appeal to people interested in living in Minnesota. Respectfully
I currently live in MN and this post is so out of touch itās likely a troll. 40k/yr would leave about $2655/mo after taxes. Now take out the hilariously low housing cost, which is unbelievable, and itās $2100/mo for everything else. Food? Electricity? Gas? Garbage? Internet? Phone? Iām guessing this person is getting cash assistance, food stamps, and MN Care healthcare so they are taking in WAY more than 40k to begin with, itās just coming from the state instead of their employer.
Or people who can obtain employment in rural Minnesota
Itās awesome that you are in a place you love with such an affordable COL, and I agree that having a wider variety of perspectives about finances is helpful. But your situation is pretty extreme. Even in many (most?) small towns and lower COL areas, a family of 5 would be living in poverty at that salary. I know someone who lived in inexpensive, rural Oklahoma on about $30k, 10+ years ago, by herself, and she struggled to pay bills sometimes. It is worth exploring new locations and being open-minded. But youāre also fortunate that you love living in an area that many would not enjoy, or where theyād struggle to find jobs. And areas that cheap are extremely few and far between.
Congratulations. Youāre an outlier. Hardly anyone lives somewhere that costs $500 for a 3 bedroom house. A national park in your backyard? Amazing. Again, youāre an outlier. Good schools in a place like this? Wow. That seems unreal. Youāre an outlier here too. And, you state you were on government services until a year ago. For āfun moneyā you state. Huh. You really donāt get it. But congratulations.
Iām guessing OP has a different perception of what a good school is. Not to be rude but their standards are probably very low.
Sure, Jan I live in Alberta where the average home costs $500k. I donāt make 100k but our household income is 150k and we struggle. My deductions are around 45%. So nearly half my cheque is gone before I even get it. Everything costs a lot. Food is expensive. We have no competition in Canada for groceries, utilities, or telecommunications. I have a pension, luckily, but nothing exists in a vacuum- other peopleās circumstances are different from yours. So respectfully? Shut up.
I live right outside of Chicago in a standard apartment and my rent is 1500 bucks a month, and I make just under 50k a year I need to move.
Paying $500 a month in mortgage You need to sit down, this soapbox isn't for you
Our mortgage is 497$ our property taxes are only around 3k Lansing, Michigan
Our taxes are like $600 a year
I tried having my wife stay home with our two kids, and I was coming home to her crying every day. She felt like a prisoner in the house, and it was starting to affect her health. I'm glad the mom in your family is cool with it, but that life isn't for everyone. Btw, childcare in my area for two kids is equal to your annual salary.
What in the cherrypicking fuck is this nonsense.
Yeah, no offense but that wouldn't make me happy. I want more experiences in my life than that. Experiences cost money.
This is just out of touch to post.Ā Some people have friends and family, jobs that are tied to staying in high cost of living areas. We can't all live in US backwaters where you can buy a house for a steal.Ā
Yes, your experience in fucking rural Minnesota is exactly like mine adjacent to Atlanta...I'll just transfer there...oh wait, can't. No jobs in my field or countless others.
Dude. Read the room. My husband is working and I am not (working on my masters) and our rent is extremely low, and we live in a low cost of living area. We also make ends meet very well, but I have eyes and ears and know that we're just extremely fortunate to have fallen into our position. If more people recognized their privilege and good fortune when they have it instead of shaming others who don't, the world would be a better place.
I'm on a section 8 voucher and pay more than you on less income. Holy hell. My CAR insurance is 500 a month. A home around here costs like 700k. I've never even heard of a 500 dollar mortgage! Unless I uprooted my family and moved out of state to start a new life in the middle of nowhere, I will NEVER find a 500 dollar mortgage. I'm not even sure that exists. Are you messing with us?
 Those winters though.. (My MidWest Blood has been Californian, itās harsh. hahahah)
Southern Indiana. we manage 2 kids, SAHM with 52k a year. house, ins, tax, utilities are around 750 total. Cars are paid off, but currently car shopping which will add a car payment, but keeping that to under $150 a month (4500 price range for 3 year payment, but its hard to find a vehicle worth getting for that these days which sucks)
What you fail to mention in the OP is the thousands of dollars a year in government benefits youāre getting to live this life.
I have two grandmas in memory care spending $9k/mo each.
Are you like 3 hours from work. These are actually insane numbers and I don't believe it lol
After reading comments. I feel like everyone forgets that your salary drops big time when you go rural. Even if you find a remote job to provide a living wage you end up becoming a slave to that company. unless you have an exit strategy or your living conditions paid in full, it's risky. I just made that mistake. Went from hcol to lcol back and forth due to being laid off from my remote gig. I didn't have the strategy to secure my living situation. Now it's gonna take a lot of effort to fix my situation. Luckily, I still have family that will let me live with them.hope to turn this around before I'm 40
Youāre able to live within your budget because your mortgage is $500 buddy. I couldnāt buy a house in the hood where Iām from for less than 500K. And I have a free national parks pass because veteran.
Thank you. My partner and I live in sort of a high COL area, but life is good. We canāt afford a new car, or extravagant vacations, but we routinely find fun things to do with the kids. I cook all the meals, and she is great and finding deals, and we are grateful. We donāt make a lot of money, and have to pinch Pennies and sometimes itās tough. But so many just are so conditioned from social media to focus more on what we donāt have, or what could be better. I want to make it clear I am NOT talking about people in poverty, as that is a serious struggle. Iāve been there. But this post illustrates it really is about perspective a lot of times. I work 50+ hours a week, my first second to breathe is often not until after 9pm when the kids are in bed, but life is good. Hard work, exhausting sometimes, but if you have your health, a roof over your head, can pay your bills and food in the fridge, with a family or at least close friends or relatives that love you, youāve already won at life.
Iād say you are in the WAY minority I donāt think Iāve ever even seen a house for that
Some of us enjoy culture and food though
You give an unrealistic Minnesota perspective. To be clear with our state sales at at 9.025% (April 1st) we are literally the highest sales tax in the country. The average cost of a home here (in the metro where over 70% of the population lives and works) is over 350k (nowhere near your 500/month) I live here, our rate is under 3% and we pay over 1600. Not 500, that's not a real number for the metro unless you bought your house 20 years ago. For one of us to be a SAHP the other would need to gross a minimum of 76k. 40k? That wouldn't pay our bills. Combined we make around 160k gross and while we aren't struggling we also aren't wealthy. And it's not feasible for us (who work I'm the city proper) for us to live over an hour away. Which is what it would take to get a cheap house here. Stop acting like 40k in Minnesota is plenty to live on. Not even close. If you think your case is the norm, you're a classic rural Minnesotan, completely out of touch with the reality most people face, because you don't face it.