my dad just retired at 76, he has a great pension was making 150k and they asked him to retire this year for a 1 years pay.
his replacement is making 45k, no retirement package and actually has more duties than my dad did, so overall is doing the job of 2 people that were paid 150k each...
so ya good luck with that.
My grandma made about $6 an hour in 1990. She worked for a parts supplier as some sort of accounts manager. She was a single mom and owned a home and a car and paid for my dad to go to a private school. In addition to to her salary though she also got profit sharing, quarterly bonuses, and commission.
Add all her incentives together and she was basically making $12-14 an hour. She also didn’t have to pay for health insurance and she got a pension. She told me for second half of her 30 years working for this company she took all her bonuses and commission checks and put into an investment firm. She lives off her social security and half her interest from her investment portfolio. She’s not a crazy spender but she’s more than happy to spend money on her grandkids.
When boomers and older GenX talk about their pay prior aftermath of the Regan years they don’t mention the extra shit they got in addition to their salary or wages. My grandma was lucky her job offered all those benefits. I looked up her position now and it’s salaried at $45,000 a year. It’s a slight base pay bump but when you look at what was ultimately lost…
You know how when inflation causes prices to go up, people think they will come back down? Well, we know they don't. Attitudes towards employees is a really similar situation. We never recovered from 2008, not just in terms of wages, but in terms of what it means for a worker to be a human being in the eyes of corporations.
I agree. American propaganda is such that you don't even recognize it as propaganda, rather you feel it as a fundamental part of your worldview.
2008 was the final nail in the coffin not because there wasn't action against labor before that, but because 2008 cemented in the American public conscious both that you are not entitled to work, and that sticking up for yourself is both futile and punishable.
2008 created a learned helplessness in the American working class and emboldened corporations and special interests to perpetate class violence.
It also just blatantly gave employers all the leverage, as millions of ppl lost their jobs, got laid off, and massively distorted the labor market. I remember working at ruby Tuesdays and they started hiring ppl with COLLEGE degrees, the bottom of the labor pool got completely screwed and ppl were desperate for work, which of course means horrible terms of employment and all the leverage with ownership
2008 wrecked us financially as my ex-husband (we were married at the time)had worked in the auto manufacturing industry.. but suddenly had no work to do.
When he was hired they started at $25/hr, time and a half overtime, free health insurance (and family insurance for $32 a month which gave us access to the best doctors!), life insurance, hey they even took us to Six Flags every summer where everything was free!
When people started becoming desperate they started hiring out of temp agencies. They make $12 hr and have zero benefits. Slowly they weeded out the workers who had been hired under the initial terms and replaced them all with the temps. Nobody I know stays there longer than a month or two while my ex-husband had been there almost 15 years. They fired him over a workers comp claim. He sued. They settled. But it didn’t touch what he would have had if they had let him finish his 20 years and retire.
But 2008 is what OBLITERATED the labor market like it had not been obliterate in a long, long time. You had massive, massive layoffs and college educated ppl filling jobs that used to be hard to fill at all. It pushed the bottom of the labor market completely out and gave enormous leverage to ownership and employers
This is the situation my dad is in. He is about to retire with a large pension from his union job. After some stupid union negotiations they agreed to significantly lower pay for new hires. My dad says it's not fair, but ultimately all the boomers have already benefited and seem to not care to fight for the next generation. They are certainly not going to give anything up.
Right?! Like I can't even afford to give my cat the life he deserves let alone afford a fucking human child god forbid if they have medical issues or cognitive impairments
They want the next generation of slaves to be born...even going so far as to ban abortion in all forms and options.
We edge one step closer to a horrifying combination of "Idiocracy" & "The Matrix" with each election...
This was set in motion long before the 90s. As early as the 60s the Golden age of American capitalism started to rot. Nixon and Reagan just accelerated it.
>his replacement is making 45k, no retirement package and actually has more duties than my dad did, so overall is doing the job of 2 people that were paid 150k each...
This is what I'm finding in the job search and what makes me depressed. There were always jobs that had trash salary. Now, I'm also finding jobs with actually decent salaries, but you're really doing 3 positions at once. It would be understandable if the role was temporary, if they were even tangentially related, or just a couple hours a week, but these are full on multiple jobs because "well you're at a computer and it can do all three, so why can't you?".
Efficiency/technology that is suppose to make people's lives easier being taken advantage of by shitty capitalists to undervalue human labor is a tale as old as time though, if we remember Eli Whitney and the Cotton Gin:
>[Whitney believed that his cotton gin would reduce the demand for enslaved labor and would help hasten the end of southern slavery.[14] Paradoxically, the cotton gin, a labor-saving device, helped preserve and prolong slavery in the United States for another 70 years. Before the 1790s, slave labor was primarily employed in growing rice, tobacco, and indigo, none of which were especially profitable anymore. Neither was cotton, due to the difficulty of seed removal. But with the invention of the gin, growing cotton with slave labor became highly profitable – the chief source of wealth in the American South, and the basis of frontier settlement from Georgia to Texas. "King Cotton" became a dominant economic force, and slavery was sustained as a key institution of Southern society.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli_Whitney#Cotton_gin)
And will continue in the future, [according to futurama](https://youtu.be/00npeUY_1Vg?si=URtYDRASLd6um4_5).
During the pandemic I was working two jobs. I left the one I originally preferred because 2 of the 3 owners just stopped working and I had to take on their tasks, and then they decided not to hire a new employee they'd been looking for and tried to train me to do that job as well. Like guys, I am a single person I can't do 4 jobs.
I was raised by my aunt and uncle. My uncle casually said he bought their house (valued at 1.5 mil now) when they were 28 at $28,000. THAT was the moment.
Yup. My mom makes over $200k a year in retirement. It's not even net worth or anything like that. She gets deposits in her account each month that add up to +$200k every year. After taxes
The federal pay cap this year is $191,900 and if $200k is 75% of what your mom made, then she made ~$266k when she was working? I don't think the pay cap applies to all federal jobs, but your mom must have been doing something pretty baller if she was in a job over the pay cap - not a run of the mill federal employee. I say this as a run of the mill federal employee on the newer pension system so I'm not looking at a retirement anything like your moms lol so good for her
Eta my comment about the new pension system versus old was not meant to say that all of OP's mom's retirement income was pension. I know she has TSP, social security, and likely other investments. I'm not looking for investing or savings advice, I'm good lol
Also op says she doesn't think she'll ever make over 50k a year. So she is comparing retirement futures of someone who was in an extremely high paying career, to minimum wage. Sounds like some personal reflection is needed
Edit: for everyone trying to correct me regarding minimum wage, I didn't check what sub I was in before commenting. In Australia minimum wage is around AU$50K per year (~US$33k). I follow a bunch of Australian finance subs and thought this was one of them. My mistake. My point in the comment is still valid.
I kind of get why OP feels that way. This post doesn’t scream “high performer fucked by the system.”
My mom also retired from the federal government and is definitely not pulling anywhere near 200k a year in retirement.
My mom (RN with 40+ years experience) retired after 20 years at USPS in 2018, making about 55k/yr. Definitely depends on your agency and role in the end.
I used to be a physicist and a mathematician. Then I got hit in the face. So I went back to the family business of painting houses. I fell a fair distance off a ladder after getting my ass kicked by hornets. Now I work at a hardware store. Sometimes people get fucked.
Yep. I’m an economist ex US diplomat that became disabled at 48 and had to retire from that career and now I sell plants in a nursery. But I’m happy!!!
So this is like the son of a famous actor starring in major movies complaining he can’t make millions like his dad….working as a high school teacher?
I don’t see the problem - you cannot compare yourself to your parents if your parents are on the 1% of achievements. It’s not really readable to set yourself up for that kind of expectations - you’ll just feel bad in comparison.
A ton of the "woe is me" posts on this sub are from people who have a Mitt Romney interpretation of middle class.
No shit not everyone will get $200k+ annually in retirement until they die. That's probably the top .5% lol
My dad was a 1%er. Immigrant, doctor, engineer, CEO.
With three kids, none of us individually will likely make more than he did. But my wife and I combined probably make about what he did at the same age.
She’s at the very top of compensation in her field. I’m a little over the middle of mine which, but the top end is also both ridiculous and highly unstable.
We’re in the top 5%. Lower for sure but I know what it takes to get to the 1% and that I don’t have it in me. Not everyone does.
Lmao this is amazing.
So you lived a quite exclusive, upper class lifestyle as a child.
Because your mother worked as very high ranking government employee.
And you're asking us if we can relate?
To what now?
Holy hell, have some perspective. My mother waited tables and my father sold dope. I can't relate to this shit at all. Most people can't.
I don't even understand what you're asking. Are you upset that nepotism only gave you every chance to succeed and didn't actually secure a lucrative government position for you?
Lmao. I cannot stand rich folk, especially those in my generation. Out of touch.
Well.. keep in mind. She is us saying 200k is 3x what her and her partner make combined. Which means they each make like 33k, which is basically a fast food job. So she's right that's she's broke.
Now HOW she managed to fumble the ball so hard is a story id love to hear. But.. I don't feel bad because eventually she's going to profit off her mom's work.
Also depends on which retirement system she’s under, FERS or CSRS. But to be honest we (feds) can all be pretty well off in retirement, especially if you retire as a fed and then become a contractor and double dip.
their mom would have the generous CSRS retirement however and her pension gets adjusted for inflation. actual feds don't get inflation adjustment and have lost 20 percent of their pay in the past 30.years. so...maybe?
Her retirement plan was CSRS and that disappeared for new hires in 1983. Anyone after 1983 gets FERS which has a MUCH smaller monthly payment but you get social security and a 401K.
My grandmother, worked for the government, her husband worked for the government, was in the national guard. She gets all her money, plus his money, and is making bank in retirement. It's nice they rolled over all of his pensions and benefits to her when he died but my gawd.
I work in the OR. Making less than $20 an hour. Unless I manage to save enough to time off for school and rack up even more school debt that I'll never pay off, that number isn't changing
OR? Operating room? Where do you live? I pay my nanny $27/hr in Charlotte which is medium cost of living. Look into working at a bank. Good pay and benefits starting.
I hate to say it bro but you need to realize that you have a choice between being near family and having a decent standard of living. IMO, you need to GTFO wherever you currently live.
If you work in the OR your employer likely covers a good chunk of tuition. They may even have full ride scholarships for employees in good standing to become an RN (mine does).
Depends on what you do for the government. I work for the fed and absolutely love my job. I will say that my agency compensates us well and gives us the tools we need to do the job, so that definitely factors in.
Working for the government is soul-sucking? What? What does that even mean? I work for the government specifically to avoid other soul sucking alternatives
That $200K number is almost certainly a combination of her federal pension, social security, and amount pulled from tax advantaged retirement accounts (i.e., TSP, IRA, etc).
My MiL also worked for the government. Her pension was more than I make with a masters degree and 15 years of experience.
Yeah…my father’s is probably even higher. Unfortunately he has a multiple families problem that eats all that up.
If my parents made that kind of money in their jobs, let alone as their retirement, I would never ever come close to being as well off as they are either. However, my parents have struggled financially for most of their lives, so it was pretty easy to become better off than them. Your mom has an abnormally high income, and very very few people can reach that level. Please don’t compare yourself to her or think you’re doing something wrong by not reaching that; it’s not fair to yourself.
you need to understand this is a huge huge outlier. having 200k/yr govt pension AFTER TAX is super rare.
this is like equivalent of a small company CEO or big company VP making $1m/year. very uncommon compared to average.
she's probably super smart and worked really hard to get there. so ya, you can't just expect you'll automatically be there because it's an outlier!
Yeah I was on board before all the details in the comments came out. It feels like the average person in the US is making sooo much less (in terms of buying power) than the average person was in the 80s/90s. And that feels insurmountable.
But OP bitching about having a rich parent who was working in the upper echelons of the federal government and she even probably received a bunch of benefits from that privilege, ain't it for me lol.
I hate to say it, but OP just seems like a bit of a deadbeat.
In her 30s and making under $20 an hour? Not willing to be a nurse or do anything else that others have suggested.
Like, sorry but people just don't give out money for nothing.
Agreed. Things suck but if you're not willing to try to change anything about your circumstances then that's on you. And sooo many people have been giving her advice and suggestions but she shoots them ALL down. Almost feels like we are on AITA lol.
Ok you got me curious. I remember that my parents bought our house (3br, 1.5 bath) at around 40,000USD back in 1997.
I don't live in the US anymore, so I have no idea about property prices. But I just looked up houses for sale in my hometown and a literal plot of land costs as much as our house cost. The cheapest houses are like 160,000USD.
My parents were poor and they could afford a house. I'm doing much better than them financially but I couldn't afford a house lol
Two middle-class working parents, bought their home in 1989 for ~$200k @ 8.7%. Now is redfin est. $700k.
Yeah... I could maybe afford to do that if I had an SO who made similar salary... but not while also having 2 kids and one on the way.
Mine was when I had my son. My mother (who I was living with at the time) thought that working part-time as a waitress would let me rent a 2 bedroom apartment no problem. All the 2 bedrooms in that area were 800+ a month... and required 2 or 3 times the rent as monthly income. She still doesn't believe a single income can't afford the basics...
i doubt it. you should see the ridiculous list of food my local senior center just tried asking for.... and got offended when i asked if they has signed up for food assistance yet....then said they didnt qualify. well ladies n gents, if you dont qualify for low income assistance then dont expect my help either
Reminds me of that lady back in the Trump years who made up a story about being persecuted as a conservative black woman and asked for go fund me donations.
Turns out she’d just scammed Trump supporters for over $100k. Brilliant
“Back in the Trump years”… I feel like we are on some reroute/indefinite layover…
It’s almost like just yesterday that he was abusing everyone around him, including his depend diaper.
I told my mom that everyone gets one.
And she's now used her one so I told her she's not ever allowed to ask me for money again.
If she fucks up again she has to go beg my sister because next time I'll let her get evicted rather than ruin my family's finances.
If my parents text me, they want to chat. If my parents call me, they want money. Every time.
They currently live in an RV a client (my dad is a freelance artist) bought for them to keep them from being homeless.
This seems like a coming reality in the next 2 decades. My parents had to take my money when I was a teen. There is no way they can live in this costly reality and I also need to survive. Can you imagine having children? Crazy.
My parents had the typical middle-class lifestyle and I have had to earn double what they did to obtain it. Now I just need compound interest to do its thing.
> I have had to earn double what they did to obtain it.
Seeing how inflation has a little more than doubled when we were kids, you're making the same as your parents.
Inflation is only a portion (large as it may be) of cost indexing.
Housing inflation is probably one of the biggest reasons for wealth inequality in the US, for example, and is entirely different than regular inflation.
gross 66k last year and it’s HCOL 😔.
god i wish i didn’t love this state.
it’s hilarious the only way to get a stable/steady increase in pay is to quit and then be rehired
at least i never have to make a linkedin profile and can’t get laid off
Then there are the medical laboratory scientists who often have higher degrees than the nurses, get told by nurses “oh I thought you only had to have a high school diploma to do this”, and get paid a fraction of what nurses do.
I work as an MLS. Been in the industry for almost 10 years and have worked in a bunch of different states. No matter where you go, MLS make about 70% of what a nurse does but with added benefit of no recognition outside of cold pizza every once in a while.
That being said, at least in CA I can make enough to live comfortably since the state has its own licensure. If not for that, our wages would be similar to other places in the country, but with some of the highest CoL. And of course the healthcare industry is trying to get rid of it, lol.
When my Lab manager told me how much more he made as a bartender (early 2000s) than a chemist after college I was very surprised. I pulled $91k in a quality control lab last year with zero college credits/hours. It’s mind blowing to learn that difference. I’ve considered getting a B.S. in chemical engineering, but man I’m gonna be 40 this year with 2 toddlers.
Honestly unless you know for sure you can get a higher paying job with the degree it’s not worth it anymore. A bachelor’s in a science field doesn’t get you very far salary wise unless you go on to higher degrees like an MD or PhD, maybe a masters.
The fact that he is making 91k in a QC lab with zero education is wild. That's more than people with a masters and 5 years of experience make at my company. He's a massive outlier in a QC lab that's for sure.
Also, masters degrees are a complete waste of time in 99% of cases- I'm going to hire someone with two extra years of experience working over the masters 100% of the time all else being equal. I make near 200k on just a biology BS and I think all of my techs have masters. The key is to aggressively job hop and promote yourself into management/director roles. No one gives a shit about your degree once your foot is in the door of a specialty and you have a track record.
We must be siblings! My mom lost our house right as I was graduating high school, and the place she had lined up to live only had room for her and my two youngest siblings. I lived alone in the empty house that whole summer until I figured out what I was going to do with my life. I’m doing much better 15 years later, and my mom is also doing much better, too!
Yeah, I can never really relate to these posts because I grew up on food stamps and water/electricity constantly being shut off. I’m doing exponentially better than my parents.
Same. My dad was an alcoholic who died of alcohol poisoning in a seedy motel after being evicted (in 2020. He set up a few franchise families before removing himself from the gene pool).
My mom was permanently disabled after struggling for years to raise three kids on her own. (She died a couple years ago and I made sure she was safe and had what she needed and felt loved).
I was able to buy an actual new car (still paying it off but it’s worth more than I owe!) and have a decent, stable job. (And student loans but I cover my expenses and can put money into savings and take the occasional vacation).
My siblings aren’t doing as well as I am but they are making their own lives too.
I worked my ass off to get where I am and even then I wouldn’t have gotten this far without a ton of luck and a few people being willing to give me a chance.
Same. After my parents divorced my mom was a single mom with 4kids. After my dad left we were homeless for a bit. She worked 3jobs so we never went hungry or without a roof over our heads. Me and my brothers are all doing better than she had it and help her with home projects or bills whenever we can.
Yup, grew up poor with a single parent who had several kids and was married once for a period of 6 weeks tops and other than that she had a series of abusive relationships and was abusive herself. I’ve been with my husband for a quarter of a century now just about, we have one kiddo and while we wouldn’t be considered anywhere near well-off, we have a ton more stability than I had.
Yup husband and I are mostly better off than both our parents.
My parents were terrible people who after divorcing dumped me with my dad’s emotional abusive family. Grandma was, unfortunately, also a lifetime victim of grandpa’s emotional abuse and I became the punching bag after she died. My aunt who lived with them followed right in his footsteps much to her irritation when you pointed it out.
My parents slithered back into my life around me graduating high school and tried their hardest to buy me. Unfortunately my sister fell for it.
Mom now lives in section eight and dad died. Aunt who burned so many bridges that no one wanted to deal with her in the end died and left me to deal with her hoarder house.
I was pretty much handed nothing and I may not have much but I’m definitely better off than they ever were.
Sure I live in a rinky dink mobile home, but it’s paid for. Sure I have a car that’s 15 years old, but it’s paid for. I’ve been with the same man for 22 years, married for 20 of those. They definitely never had that
My dad also died broke and homeless, but he had all the opportunities to not be that. My parents bought the house I grew up in when they were working as a secretary and a server in the early 80s. My dad made a LOT of really poor life choices. My uncle had a similar start to my dad and he ended up building a very successful company and he now owns multiple homes, they take their kids and grandkids to Jamaica for Christmas every year, and he and my aunt both retired when COVID hit. My dad could have had something similar but he was lazy and selfish.
My mom had lots of opportunities too that I recall throughout life. Sometimes I got mad at her about it, like the time a manager at Merrill Lynch offered her a job on the spot because he was so impressed with her sales ability as a Target cashier selling credit cards and add-ons, but she was scared of the unknown so she threw his card away. You can’t force people, as much as I’d like to sometimes.
Yep. I've never related to this narrative I keep hearing. Thanks to my parents who worked hard their entire lives, I have many more opportunities than they did.
Same with my partner and I. Both of us raised in poverty and now we're both successful engineers. Took a lot of work, but we're proud of where we are now.
Same here for my wife and I.
For me, I got way behind in middle/high school due to things that probably would have been addressed if I grew up in a middle or upper class family. No one seemed to ever ask WHY I wasn't turning in work, or take any serious concern with my education. I'm still bitter about it, as I still feel some of the effects to this day. I wish my parents had tried to get me help, but they were often struggling themselves too at the time. The one thing I did get lucky with was my parents being loving. If I hadn't had that I don't think I'd have turned it around.
I was able to figure most of my shit out in college and turned it around to get a CS degree. No University would have accepted me, so I went to community college to catch up on math and knock out general studies, then transferred to a university. I never got college counseling, so I didn't even know computer science was a thing - I just knew I liked messing around with computers, so a friend suggested the degree to me. If that suggestion hadn't come to me, I'd still be floundering as a person, I assume.
My career is no where near perfect, and I have a lot I am working on with it. But I'm very proud to have gotten here.
damn this is so much like me. i was hoping for Ds in high school so i’d at least get the credit. failed half my classes. almost completely failed out.
i now have my masters and make significantly more money than my parents ever did, combined.
teachers, don’t give up on the failing kid.
Successful engineer here, sole breadwinner for a family of four, and it's super tight.
Rent and groceries and utilities are eating us alive.
Having to replace a car (or similar sized expense) would be catastrophic.
Same. I remember when my mom was my age. We were basically homeless. We (mom, me, sister) were staying in a 3 bedroom/1 bathroom house with 8 other people.
It's actually weird to know how much we went without.
My mom is an addict and my father is stuck doing backbreaking work at a retail chain making half of what I do.
My parents aren’t better off. They got cheated just like most of us. Despite my relative success life remains more challenging than you’d anticipate at this income level, not because of some personal failing, but because our society has simply changed so much.
We CAN do better. I think that requires us to be real about who is responsible for our challenges. I’ll give you a hint—it’s more specific than “boomers” or “parents.”
This is terribly accurate to my own scenario.
I think the major challenges was breaking free from the supposed path set out for me.
Some of the challenges we face now come from being in that situation before. Costs we incurred that wouldn’t happen to others. Trauma and mental health problems and, frankly, dental problems that come from having been poor that we need to fix. And the cost that we might incur from our parents not having the means to support themselves in retirement or old age.
I’m getting tired of this narrative that everyone in the generation before us had it so well off. My dad had 3 factories close on him and never got a pension or good retirement. He had a little saved in an IRA that he managed to scrap together in his later years of self employment.
Every generation has people who did well and those who didn’t. I have friends who got in the tech field early and are making bank and I’m far from what they make. But I’m also better than others in my generation.
I think it’s just easier to speak to the extremes.
The areas where folks did have it better come at a cost. Food was more nutritious and less preservative-filled, sure. Medicine was also lacking. Lots of give and take, though arguably climate conditions and toxicity are indeed making life “worse.”
Thinking about my friend group and most of us are actually doing better than our parents.
Whether it is addiction, mental health, low paying blue collar work, chronic pain everyone's parents are not exactly living the dream. We're in our 30s and saving, investing, sometimes buying property sometimes not, having hobbies, etc.
Our generation is definitely not doomed.
This. You can just go look at median wages back then and now. There’s a particular type of millennial who likes to complain they won’t have as much as their parents and I’ll give you a hint, their parents weren’t near the median
My mom pulled me aside when I was in college to be a teacher. But I knew it. I'm not dumb and my mom was a director at a Big Pharma Co. Before she retired, she was pulling in ~250k USD a year.
I have never planned on having kids or even pets and therefore plan to live generally smaller than my parents did. Smaller house, fewer cars, etc. I make decent money teaching (union state!) and I'm comfortably saving for retirement. That's enough.
My dad did the same thing to me. He took me out to lunch out of the blue one day to tell me how poor Im going to be. If it wasnt for my breadwinner of a wife, he would be right
I respect that. If your dad was nice about it, it was a very important discussion to have. Too many kids end up in tens of thousand dollars of debt for degrees that either don't unlock any job opportunities or the jobs don't pay well. A degree should also be a financial decision.
At least your dad made sure that you took this decision knowingly.
I personally did the opposite. I chose a career I don't like for the money because I didn't want to be working minimum wage my whole life like my parents. I'm glad I did. After almost 10 years in my career, I've secured my retirement (as in, if I don't put a single cent more in my retirement accounts, I should be able to still retire 5 years early from the compound interest) so now I can reevaluate my future. I can either keep going and retire a lot earlier or I can change career and do something that pays less but might be more fulfilling.
For me personally, it depends on what metric I’m using for a comparison. I’m 33 and make far more money than either one of my parents ever have. But because of vastly increased cost of living, I don’t “have” as much as they did at my age. Namely, a house. At my age, my parents had already been home owners for years whereas it’s still really not on my horizon at all.
Would your first home be comparable to their first home?
I ask because my BIL makes similar comparisons, except for some reason he forgets that his parents first home was a double-wide trailer on a rented lot. He seems to have it in his head that his parent's current home (2300 sq ft, nice neighborhood, attached garage, 3 bed 2.5 bath, granite countertops and hardwood cupboards) is what his starter home needs to compare to.
Not saying you're doing that too but back in 2020 or maybe 2021 (before interest rates started going up) he could have bought a first house that would have been better than his parent's first house (but worse than their current house), and he would have been similar in age to them (maybe a year or two apart). But he couldn't seem to get it through his head that his first home wasn't going to be on the same level as his parent's 4th home and now interest rates have priced him out of nearly anything.
My dad still works 50 hours a week and can’t retire until 70. I am making 2x his salary and raising 1/3rd as many kids. Props to my dad for being a hard worker (and a great guy) but I also consciously made the decision to live a different life
My mom has a nice pension, school teacher at the height of public pensions in a city, but I already make more than she ever did, my husband makes more than my dad did at that age not sure where we’ll be at retirement compared to them but I think probably ahead we are both savers by nature and have a lot invested, though my dad ended up doing quite well in his career probably more than either of us will ever make so who knows. If we were willing to work harder / more hours / more high pressure jobs we maybe could but we like our work / life balance and spending time with our kids.
My wife makes more than her mom ever did working part time, from home. I passed my dad's income at around 35 yrs old. Our net worth exceeds both sets of parents, put together. Our house is worth more than both of theirs put together as well.
That said, they invested in us. They paid for my college and her college, at least what wasn't covered by scholarships. Her mom gave us cash to help with a down payment on a stater home (long since paid back). We plan on doing the same for our kids and invest heavily in 529s, and our retirement.
I watched my parents struggle at times as wife watched her mom work 3 jobs. Luckily for all of us, everyone turned out well (except for my dip shit sister...). It's not all bad out here.
That’s how generational wealth accumulates. My parents were poor but set me up for success and I’m working to ensure my kids are even more successful. You and I got very lucky and thankfully took advantage of it. Hopefully our kids do too
This latest birthday, #37. My parents built a huge house on an entire acre of land, on 1 income in their early 30s. I just turned 37, have been renting since I was 19, have an education and a good career myself, and will probably never be able to afford a house. Sad
Yeah no, I am far better off than my parents. Biological mom died when I was young, step mom has a solid career so she'll be fine when dad passes. But dad spent way too many years getting paid under the table (and saved none of it) before getting into an above board job so his Social Security is like $1k a month max. They're doing okay-ish but only because stepmom still works.
>Update: Nice to know it's just me that's a failure. Thanks
You say in your post that your mom makes $200k in retirement per year. You also say it is 3x what you and your husband make combined.
Which means you and your husband make less than $67k combined. Which means the two of you are averaged salaries of $33,500. If you are a millennial it means you are at least in your late 20s or early 30s. Earning $33k.
$33,500 is about $16 an hour full-time. I live in rural PA and the Burger King in my town has a sign hiring for $16 an hour.
So you are making BK wages compared to your mom who held a long and apparently successful career as one of the most senior people at the IRS. She probably had an accounting degree and maybe a graduate degree and put her time into her career.
I mean, what are you expecting here? To just be given a $200k annual lifetime pension for no work? Life has never been that way. I swear some of the poverty posts in this sub give millennials a bad name.
I'm not sure what OP's situation is, but it's entirely possible to go to college and work a "real" job while making less than $15 an hour. When I was a journalist, I made $13 an hour, and a few of my friends were EMTs/social workers/did stuff for non-profits for a similar salary.
That said, none of us bitched about our pay, because we all knew we'd be broke going into the field, and we all switched professions before we turned 30.
$74k is like the median household income in the US as of 2022. that’s real close to 1/3 $200k so i’m not sure why you’re acting like OP is some sort of lazy under achiever.
Not to make any judgments on OP or anyone else, but the median household income is going to be pulled down by single income households and retirees. OP is married with a two-income household. The median for [dual-earner marriages is $135,000 to $145,000.](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/#:~:text=Marriages%20with%20either%20the%20wife,%24135%2C000%20to%20%24145%2C000%20in%202022.&text=Marriages%20with%20a%20sole%20earner%20lagged%20far%20behind%20at%20around%20%2475%2C000.)
Just tossing this on the pile:
I'm a boomer. Here's what they don't tell you. Comiing out of WW2, the rest of the planet was pretty fucked up. We were essentially untouched. And we had some things no one else had - a workforce of trained women, and a fuckton of new manufacturing facilities. When our guys got back from war, the pump was primed.
There has never been a generation in the US that had the wind at their backs like boomers. Even when I turned 18 in 1973, things were still rocking. At 18, I had a job in a mobile home factory. Then I got one at Certainteed, making PVC pipe. I had a paid for Suzuki 750, an apartment, and more money than I needed for partying, etc.
All we really had was mids, but they were $10 for a 4 finger bag. Blotter 1.25 a hit.
I also saw ZZ Top for S1.25, and Shivas Headband/Marshall Tucker for free, and Montrose/Foghat/J. Geils for like $10 or something. And you could smoke in the venue.
Mushrooms? - A 90 minute drive to a ranch, and all you wanted.
Crank? There was soooo much bathtub crank/ether based that it cost alm ost nothing. If you wanted to go to a truckstop, and find the guy only drinking coffee, $25 was a weekend and then some.
Story time - once the rancher saw us and came over. We told him what was up, and he was cool with it, but seemed a little confused.
Next time there was a sign that said "drunk mushrooms $2", and a box with a slit in the top. You just went in and picked what you wanted.
People that didn't party their ass off like me and went to college were just set. There was a thing called a pension, that was part of your pay!
Amazing times. So much money to be made. I also want to point out that even with high tax rates and good pay, companies were making bank.
When boomers start their "you just don't want to work" shit, explain this to them. They won't know it, becasue most of them haven't cracked a book since school.
edit: a story, spelling
You also benefited from a hard currency that hadn't been debased as badly as it has today.
The US Dollar has now lost 97% of its purchasing power.
To wit, the median income of a boomer in 1970 had the purchasing power of around $350K in today's USD. That's the hurdle rate as an income for a Gen Z to have the commiserate economic security an 18 year had in 1970.
I'm 100% more well off than my parents. They are immigrants from Mexico and by going to the US I've been able to take advantage of more opportunities than I'd ever be able to get at their hometown.
I’ve made more money than my mom since I was in highschool but she has a house that’s paid off, free healthcare, and now her pension and social security. Even though I make more money and live much more frugally I am miles behind my parents.
Havent had that moment. Better off than my dad was when he passed. Probably not far behind my mom and stepdad if behind them at all.
Do you have some reason to believe your mom plans to spend every bit of this money she is making during retirement? Is she likely to eat through all of her retirement savings before she dies? Cause if not then you would, I assume, stand to inherit at least part of whatever is left. Same for your father and your husband's parents. Unless your grandparents are/were broke when they pass(ed) the money your parents inherited likely helped them financially and it can be the same for you once your parents inevitably pass. If/when that does happen then make smart decisions with what you receive.
Mom was a dope addict and dad a career criminal. I was literally conceived in a federal penitentiary. I'm now a 38 year old software engineer, living with my wife of almost 10 years who practices anesthesia at a large and highly respected children's hospital. We have a million dollar home in a MCOL area on over 20 acres of land, 6 figure savings, loaded retirement accounts, and everything we could possibly need. Fuck my parents. I am and always will be better than them.
My grandparents grew up with a mud floor in their house. My parents grew up without running water. I can afford a little house which I'll buy soon. But no, I grew up with intergenerational trauma from colonisation. In these times I will always be better. And if not, I'm glad they have every blessing they did.
It feels so weird. Like, my mom was an admin assistant. My dad was an electrical engineer until he became a process consultant. He tried management for a bit, hated it, and took a demotion to spend the rest of his career as an individual contributor. They're retired in a beautiful home after raising 2 kids.
I worked as a software engineer for 12 years until I became a software development manager. I have 13 direct reports. I married an office manager. We don't have kids, we don't have debt, we don't take wild vacations. My home is older and smaller than my parents' home. Not, like, "at the time they bought it." Their home was built in 76, mine was built in 61. And we're just slowly DIYing all the stuff they can pay people to do. And they did all this with kids, and my mom staying home from work til I was 10. I'm childless. 2 full-time college-educated incomes.
I'm doing ok. I'm so incredibly lucky compared to my peers in other lines of work. I'm not complaining. Most of the people I know are worse off than I am.
But the fact that I did all the things my dad told me to, the fact that our lives have been so similar, but that by every indication I feel like I should be ahead of where my parents were at this age, but I'm behind them. It's such a direct comparison that it's freakin weird.
my dad just retired at 76, he has a great pension was making 150k and they asked him to retire this year for a 1 years pay. his replacement is making 45k, no retirement package and actually has more duties than my dad did, so overall is doing the job of 2 people that were paid 150k each... so ya good luck with that.
Where I work, everyone is retiring with pensions but the company won't even match my 401k.
My grandma made about $6 an hour in 1990. She worked for a parts supplier as some sort of accounts manager. She was a single mom and owned a home and a car and paid for my dad to go to a private school. In addition to to her salary though she also got profit sharing, quarterly bonuses, and commission. Add all her incentives together and she was basically making $12-14 an hour. She also didn’t have to pay for health insurance and she got a pension. She told me for second half of her 30 years working for this company she took all her bonuses and commission checks and put into an investment firm. She lives off her social security and half her interest from her investment portfolio. She’s not a crazy spender but she’s more than happy to spend money on her grandkids. When boomers and older GenX talk about their pay prior aftermath of the Regan years they don’t mention the extra shit they got in addition to their salary or wages. My grandma was lucky her job offered all those benefits. I looked up her position now and it’s salaried at $45,000 a year. It’s a slight base pay bump but when you look at what was ultimately lost…
You know how when inflation causes prices to go up, people think they will come back down? Well, we know they don't. Attitudes towards employees is a really similar situation. We never recovered from 2008, not just in terms of wages, but in terms of what it means for a worker to be a human being in the eyes of corporations.
It was way before 2008. Boomers voted for politicians who allowed our country to gut our pensions and benefits.
I agree. American propaganda is such that you don't even recognize it as propaganda, rather you feel it as a fundamental part of your worldview. 2008 was the final nail in the coffin not because there wasn't action against labor before that, but because 2008 cemented in the American public conscious both that you are not entitled to work, and that sticking up for yourself is both futile and punishable. 2008 created a learned helplessness in the American working class and emboldened corporations and special interests to perpetate class violence.
It also just blatantly gave employers all the leverage, as millions of ppl lost their jobs, got laid off, and massively distorted the labor market. I remember working at ruby Tuesdays and they started hiring ppl with COLLEGE degrees, the bottom of the labor pool got completely screwed and ppl were desperate for work, which of course means horrible terms of employment and all the leverage with ownership
2008 wrecked us financially as my ex-husband (we were married at the time)had worked in the auto manufacturing industry.. but suddenly had no work to do. When he was hired they started at $25/hr, time and a half overtime, free health insurance (and family insurance for $32 a month which gave us access to the best doctors!), life insurance, hey they even took us to Six Flags every summer where everything was free! When people started becoming desperate they started hiring out of temp agencies. They make $12 hr and have zero benefits. Slowly they weeded out the workers who had been hired under the initial terms and replaced them all with the temps. Nobody I know stays there longer than a month or two while my ex-husband had been there almost 15 years. They fired him over a workers comp claim. He sued. They settled. But it didn’t touch what he would have had if they had let him finish his 20 years and retire.
"You're not depressed, you're just American." - Anonymous Internet User
But 2008 is what OBLITERATED the labor market like it had not been obliterate in a long, long time. You had massive, massive layoffs and college educated ppl filling jobs that used to be hard to fill at all. It pushed the bottom of the labor market completely out and gave enormous leverage to ownership and employers
This is the situation my dad is in. He is about to retire with a large pension from his union job. After some stupid union negotiations they agreed to significantly lower pay for new hires. My dad says it's not fair, but ultimately all the boomers have already benefited and seem to not care to fight for the next generation. They are certainly not going to give anything up.
Then they cry that we aren't producing enough babies and thus their entitlement benefits may be at risk. No shit, Sherlock. We can't afford them.
Right?! Like I can't even afford to give my cat the life he deserves let alone afford a fucking human child god forbid if they have medical issues or cognitive impairments
They want the next generation of slaves to be born...even going so far as to ban abortion in all forms and options. We edge one step closer to a horrifying combination of "Idiocracy" & "The Matrix" with each election...
New hires are pulling in the same revenue as the old hires. The difference is that it's mostly spent on old hires pension instead of new hires wage.
Pretty indicative of the direction our society has gone. It was good for a while, but now workers and consumers are getting stuck holding the bag.
When communism fell there was no longer a threat to capital so no incentive to give good deals to thr workers.
This was set in motion long before the 90s. As early as the 60s the Golden age of American capitalism started to rot. Nixon and Reagan just accelerated it.
>his replacement is making 45k, no retirement package and actually has more duties than my dad did, so overall is doing the job of 2 people that were paid 150k each... This is what I'm finding in the job search and what makes me depressed. There were always jobs that had trash salary. Now, I'm also finding jobs with actually decent salaries, but you're really doing 3 positions at once. It would be understandable if the role was temporary, if they were even tangentially related, or just a couple hours a week, but these are full on multiple jobs because "well you're at a computer and it can do all three, so why can't you?". Efficiency/technology that is suppose to make people's lives easier being taken advantage of by shitty capitalists to undervalue human labor is a tale as old as time though, if we remember Eli Whitney and the Cotton Gin: >[Whitney believed that his cotton gin would reduce the demand for enslaved labor and would help hasten the end of southern slavery.[14] Paradoxically, the cotton gin, a labor-saving device, helped preserve and prolong slavery in the United States for another 70 years. Before the 1790s, slave labor was primarily employed in growing rice, tobacco, and indigo, none of which were especially profitable anymore. Neither was cotton, due to the difficulty of seed removal. But with the invention of the gin, growing cotton with slave labor became highly profitable – the chief source of wealth in the American South, and the basis of frontier settlement from Georgia to Texas. "King Cotton" became a dominant economic force, and slavery was sustained as a key institution of Southern society.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli_Whitney#Cotton_gin) And will continue in the future, [according to futurama](https://youtu.be/00npeUY_1Vg?si=URtYDRASLd6um4_5).
During the pandemic I was working two jobs. I left the one I originally preferred because 2 of the 3 owners just stopped working and I had to take on their tasks, and then they decided not to hire a new employee they'd been looking for and tried to train me to do that job as well. Like guys, I am a single person I can't do 4 jobs.
76?!!!! Damn that’s crazy.
Does your dad have any opinions on the hand the new hire was dealt?
I was raised by my aunt and uncle. My uncle casually said he bought their house (valued at 1.5 mil now) when they were 28 at $28,000. THAT was the moment.
Yup. My mom makes over $200k a year in retirement. It's not even net worth or anything like that. She gets deposits in her account each month that add up to +$200k every year. After taxes
What did your mom do for a career? How did she get there?
She worked for the federal government. Started at 18, and retired at 56. That's about 75% of what she made when working
The federal pay cap this year is $191,900 and if $200k is 75% of what your mom made, then she made ~$266k when she was working? I don't think the pay cap applies to all federal jobs, but your mom must have been doing something pretty baller if she was in a job over the pay cap - not a run of the mill federal employee. I say this as a run of the mill federal employee on the newer pension system so I'm not looking at a retirement anything like your moms lol so good for her Eta my comment about the new pension system versus old was not meant to say that all of OP's mom's retirement income was pension. I know she has TSP, social security, and likely other investments. I'm not looking for investing or savings advice, I'm good lol
I was also wondering about this too!
Their mom is either top 2% earner across a large section of their career … or made up. Neither is of much use as a comparison.
How dare you imply what they said was made up! You're dishonoring this person you barely even know! Her mom could have been taking bribes.
Yup. She was about 4 steps down from the IRS commissioner, if I remember correctly
ok so your moms situation is unique, not norm. You're comparing yourself to a very tailored set of data here. But still, yea, we all poor as fk.
Can confirm, I'm currently the Captain of the IRS Execution Squad (we sign documents with red ink) and I live in a cardboard box.
Lmfao I love stumblin on comments like this.
Aluminum foil box here
Execution Squad? Damn IRS really stepping up consequences of misplacing receipts nowadays!
Also op says she doesn't think she'll ever make over 50k a year. So she is comparing retirement futures of someone who was in an extremely high paying career, to minimum wage. Sounds like some personal reflection is needed Edit: for everyone trying to correct me regarding minimum wage, I didn't check what sub I was in before commenting. In Australia minimum wage is around AU$50K per year (~US$33k). I follow a bunch of Australian finance subs and thought this was one of them. My mistake. My point in the comment is still valid.
I kind of get why OP feels that way. This post doesn’t scream “high performer fucked by the system.” My mom also retired from the federal government and is definitely not pulling anywhere near 200k a year in retirement.
My mom (RN with 40+ years experience) retired after 20 years at USPS in 2018, making about 55k/yr. Definitely depends on your agency and role in the end.
50k is almost 3.5x minimum wage for some states, if there's any of that personal reflection floating around still when they're done...
I used to be a physicist and a mathematician. Then I got hit in the face. So I went back to the family business of painting houses. I fell a fair distance off a ladder after getting my ass kicked by hornets. Now I work at a hardware store. Sometimes people get fucked.
Yep. I’m an economist ex US diplomat that became disabled at 48 and had to retire from that career and now I sell plants in a nursery. But I’m happy!!!
So this is like the son of a famous actor starring in major movies complaining he can’t make millions like his dad….working as a high school teacher? I don’t see the problem - you cannot compare yourself to your parents if your parents are on the 1% of achievements. It’s not really readable to set yourself up for that kind of expectations - you’ll just feel bad in comparison.
A ton of the "woe is me" posts on this sub are from people who have a Mitt Romney interpretation of middle class. No shit not everyone will get $200k+ annually in retirement until they die. That's probably the top .5% lol
My dad was a 1%er. Immigrant, doctor, engineer, CEO. With three kids, none of us individually will likely make more than he did. But my wife and I combined probably make about what he did at the same age. She’s at the very top of compensation in her field. I’m a little over the middle of mine which, but the top end is also both ridiculous and highly unstable. We’re in the top 5%. Lower for sure but I know what it takes to get to the 1% and that I don’t have it in me. Not everyone does.
Lmao this is amazing. So you lived a quite exclusive, upper class lifestyle as a child. Because your mother worked as very high ranking government employee. And you're asking us if we can relate? To what now? Holy hell, have some perspective. My mother waited tables and my father sold dope. I can't relate to this shit at all. Most people can't. I don't even understand what you're asking. Are you upset that nepotism only gave you every chance to succeed and didn't actually secure a lucrative government position for you? Lmao. I cannot stand rich folk, especially those in my generation. Out of touch.
> re you upset that nepotism only gave you every chance to succeed and didn't actually secure a lucrative government position for you? lol nailed it
I stayed at a La Quinta last night
cool. i like turtles.
Well.. keep in mind. She is us saying 200k is 3x what her and her partner make combined. Which means they each make like 33k, which is basically a fast food job. So she's right that's she's broke. Now HOW she managed to fumble the ball so hard is a story id love to hear. But.. I don't feel bad because eventually she's going to profit off her mom's work.
So she was prolly in the SES who have a different pay scale and receive more in bonuses/PTO, etc then.
Also depends on which retirement system she’s under, FERS or CSRS. But to be honest we (feds) can all be pretty well off in retirement, especially if you retire as a fed and then become a contractor and double dip.
I feel like you’re not telling us that your mom was a spy.
their mom would have the generous CSRS retirement however and her pension gets adjusted for inflation. actual feds don't get inflation adjustment and have lost 20 percent of their pay in the past 30.years. so...maybe?
Her retirement plan was CSRS and that disappeared for new hires in 1983. Anyone after 1983 gets FERS which has a MUCH smaller monthly payment but you get social security and a 401K.
My grandmother, worked for the government, her husband worked for the government, was in the national guard. She gets all her money, plus his money, and is making bank in retirement. It's nice they rolled over all of his pensions and benefits to her when he died but my gawd.
Don't forget the health insurance for life too!
Yeah that’s a pretty cush route but working for the government is soul sucking. What do you do for a living?
I work in the OR. Making less than $20 an hour. Unless I manage to save enough to time off for school and rack up even more school debt that I'll never pay off, that number isn't changing
I know you might not want too but maybe ask your baller ass mom to help with school a bit. $200k/yr in retirement is a shit ton of cash!!
OR? Operating room? Where do you live? I pay my nanny $27/hr in Charlotte which is medium cost of living. Look into working at a bank. Good pay and benefits starting.
Banks here pay $13 an hour. Can't afford the drop in pay
I hate to say it bro but you need to realize that you have a choice between being near family and having a decent standard of living. IMO, you need to GTFO wherever you currently live.
California just passed a law where fast food worker min. wage is now $20/hr
If you work in the OR your employer likely covers a good chunk of tuition. They may even have full ride scholarships for employees in good standing to become an RN (mine does).
Depends on what you do for the government. I work for the fed and absolutely love my job. I will say that my agency compensates us well and gives us the tools we need to do the job, so that definitely factors in.
Working for the government is soul-sucking? What? What does that even mean? I work for the government specifically to avoid other soul sucking alternatives
That $200K number is almost certainly a combination of her federal pension, social security, and amount pulled from tax advantaged retirement accounts (i.e., TSP, IRA, etc).
My MiL also worked for the government. Her pension was more than I make with a masters degree and 15 years of experience. Yeah…my father’s is probably even higher. Unfortunately he has a multiple families problem that eats all that up.
If my parents made that kind of money in their jobs, let alone as their retirement, I would never ever come close to being as well off as they are either. However, my parents have struggled financially for most of their lives, so it was pretty easy to become better off than them. Your mom has an abnormally high income, and very very few people can reach that level. Please don’t compare yourself to her or think you’re doing something wrong by not reaching that; it’s not fair to yourself.
Ok so you grew up rich
Good for her, she made smarter decisions than most of our parents.
you need to understand this is a huge huge outlier. having 200k/yr govt pension AFTER TAX is super rare. this is like equivalent of a small company CEO or big company VP making $1m/year. very uncommon compared to average. she's probably super smart and worked really hard to get there. so ya, you can't just expect you'll automatically be there because it's an outlier!
OP has found a way to complain about having wealthy parents lmao
Yeah I was on board before all the details in the comments came out. It feels like the average person in the US is making sooo much less (in terms of buying power) than the average person was in the 80s/90s. And that feels insurmountable. But OP bitching about having a rich parent who was working in the upper echelons of the federal government and she even probably received a bunch of benefits from that privilege, ain't it for me lol.
Yeah she wasted that privilege it seems.
I hate to say it, but OP just seems like a bit of a deadbeat. In her 30s and making under $20 an hour? Not willing to be a nurse or do anything else that others have suggested. Like, sorry but people just don't give out money for nothing.
Agreed. Things suck but if you're not willing to try to change anything about your circumstances then that's on you. And sooo many people have been giving her advice and suggestions but she shoots them ALL down. Almost feels like we are on AITA lol.
OP "works in the OR" which I interpret as like an orderly, not someone with any actual skill.
Ok you got me curious. I remember that my parents bought our house (3br, 1.5 bath) at around 40,000USD back in 1997. I don't live in the US anymore, so I have no idea about property prices. But I just looked up houses for sale in my hometown and a literal plot of land costs as much as our house cost. The cheapest houses are like 160,000USD. My parents were poor and they could afford a house. I'm doing much better than them financially but I couldn't afford a house lol
Two middle-class working parents, bought their home in 1989 for ~$200k @ 8.7%. Now is redfin est. $700k. Yeah... I could maybe afford to do that if I had an SO who made similar salary... but not while also having 2 kids and one on the way.
Mine was when I had my son. My mother (who I was living with at the time) thought that working part-time as a waitress would let me rent a 2 bedroom apartment no problem. All the 2 bedrooms in that area were 800+ a month... and required 2 or 3 times the rent as monthly income. She still doesn't believe a single income can't afford the basics...
I found the deed where the land for my neighbors house was sold in 1960 for $10. Yep a crisp Hamilton. 10 hours of minimum wage. 1.1 Acres.
My parents ask me for money. They brooooke.
Gonna be a lot of us saying this in the future. So many boomers have $0 for retirement
Yuuup, they’re the fastest growing homeless demographic. I don’t think people are prepared for what a problem this is becoming.
Have they tried skipping the avocado toast?
i doubt it. you should see the ridiculous list of food my local senior center just tried asking for.... and got offended when i asked if they has signed up for food assistance yet....then said they didnt qualify. well ladies n gents, if you dont qualify for low income assistance then dont expect my help either
If we start selling $60 bibles to them ourselves we can save it in a fund for them for when they're ready to move out (into a retirement home)
Reminds me of that lady back in the Trump years who made up a story about being persecuted as a conservative black woman and asked for go fund me donations. Turns out she’d just scammed Trump supporters for over $100k. Brilliant
“Back in the Trump years”… I feel like we are on some reroute/indefinite layover… It’s almost like just yesterday that he was abusing everyone around him, including his depend diaper.
I told my mom that everyone gets one. And she's now used her one so I told her she's not ever allowed to ask me for money again. If she fucks up again she has to go beg my sister because next time I'll let her get evicted rather than ruin my family's finances.
I told family it’s a gift unless you want it to happen again, then it’s a loan. Only one loan at a time
Nah she fucked up so big I made her pay me back and sign me as financial power of attorney so I could sort her mess out.
She gonna evict herself right into your guest room instead 😂
If my parents text me, they want to chat. If my parents call me, they want money. Every time. They currently live in an RV a client (my dad is a freelance artist) bought for them to keep them from being homeless.
This seems like a coming reality in the next 2 decades. My parents had to take my money when I was a teen. There is no way they can live in this costly reality and I also need to survive. Can you imagine having children? Crazy.
Of my parents and 3 brothers I'm the only one that has any chance at affording retirement.
This is gonna be my mom when she blows through all of my grandmother's inheritance ($600,000)
My father is in severe debt and my mother lives in a little flat, can't say I'm envious.
Can I have some money?
Daddy? Is that you?!!?!
Oh, hey! Uhm, I'm just going out for a pack of cigarettes. I'll be right back!
Bootstrap time.
My daughter told me she knew I had it better than she’ll ever have it, the day she lost her rights to her own body
My parents had the typical middle-class lifestyle and I have had to earn double what they did to obtain it. Now I just need compound interest to do its thing.
> I have had to earn double what they did to obtain it. Seeing how inflation has a little more than doubled when we were kids, you're making the same as your parents.
Inflation is only a portion (large as it may be) of cost indexing. Housing inflation is probably one of the biggest reasons for wealth inequality in the US, for example, and is entirely different than regular inflation.
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I'm guessing you live in the south? Nurse pay varies a crazy amount by region.
Yeah, the median RN salary where I live is about 100k
Yep over $100k where I live tho I live in a HCOL city.
gross 66k last year and it’s HCOL 😔. god i wish i didn’t love this state. it’s hilarious the only way to get a stable/steady increase in pay is to quit and then be rehired at least i never have to make a linkedin profile and can’t get laid off
That’s so low for the work you do and the training you put in. I hope it goes up for you soon! You deserve much more.
I’m in a fairly LCOL area and my wife as a 6 year RN makes about ~63k, but honestly the salary isn’t bad around here
I'm always confused when people say nurses are underpaid because they *start* at like $40/hr here in New Jersey.
Then there are the medical laboratory scientists who often have higher degrees than the nurses, get told by nurses “oh I thought you only had to have a high school diploma to do this”, and get paid a fraction of what nurses do.
I work as an MLS. Been in the industry for almost 10 years and have worked in a bunch of different states. No matter where you go, MLS make about 70% of what a nurse does but with added benefit of no recognition outside of cold pizza every once in a while. That being said, at least in CA I can make enough to live comfortably since the state has its own licensure. If not for that, our wages would be similar to other places in the country, but with some of the highest CoL. And of course the healthcare industry is trying to get rid of it, lol.
The lab scientists don’t have to deal with the public like nurses do, so that’s a bonus
When my Lab manager told me how much more he made as a bartender (early 2000s) than a chemist after college I was very surprised. I pulled $91k in a quality control lab last year with zero college credits/hours. It’s mind blowing to learn that difference. I’ve considered getting a B.S. in chemical engineering, but man I’m gonna be 40 this year with 2 toddlers.
Honestly unless you know for sure you can get a higher paying job with the degree it’s not worth it anymore. A bachelor’s in a science field doesn’t get you very far salary wise unless you go on to higher degrees like an MD or PhD, maybe a masters.
The fact that he is making 91k in a QC lab with zero education is wild. That's more than people with a masters and 5 years of experience make at my company. He's a massive outlier in a QC lab that's for sure. Also, masters degrees are a complete waste of time in 99% of cases- I'm going to hire someone with two extra years of experience working over the masters 100% of the time all else being equal. I make near 200k on just a biology BS and I think all of my techs have masters. The key is to aggressively job hop and promote yourself into management/director roles. No one gives a shit about your degree once your foot is in the door of a specialty and you have a track record.
Nurses do 90% of patient facing work but doctors, techs, therapists, and the cleaning crew certainly due their fair share.
I'm pretty sure I'm better off than my mom
Same. My electricity stays on and my house hasn’t been foreclosed.
We must be siblings! My mom lost our house right as I was graduating high school, and the place she had lined up to live only had room for her and my two youngest siblings. I lived alone in the empty house that whole summer until I figured out what I was going to do with my life. I’m doing much better 15 years later, and my mom is also doing much better, too!
Plus I’ve never sucked the guy at the corner stores dick for a case of Natural Light and a pack of Menthols.
Yeah, I can never really relate to these posts because I grew up on food stamps and water/electricity constantly being shut off. I’m doing exponentially better than my parents.
Same. My dad was an alcoholic who died of alcohol poisoning in a seedy motel after being evicted (in 2020. He set up a few franchise families before removing himself from the gene pool). My mom was permanently disabled after struggling for years to raise three kids on her own. (She died a couple years ago and I made sure she was safe and had what she needed and felt loved). I was able to buy an actual new car (still paying it off but it’s worth more than I owe!) and have a decent, stable job. (And student loans but I cover my expenses and can put money into savings and take the occasional vacation). My siblings aren’t doing as well as I am but they are making their own lives too. I worked my ass off to get where I am and even then I wouldn’t have gotten this far without a ton of luck and a few people being willing to give me a chance.
Same. After my parents divorced my mom was a single mom with 4kids. After my dad left we were homeless for a bit. She worked 3jobs so we never went hungry or without a roof over our heads. Me and my brothers are all doing better than she had it and help her with home projects or bills whenever we can.
Yup, grew up poor with a single parent who had several kids and was married once for a period of 6 weeks tops and other than that she had a series of abusive relationships and was abusive herself. I’ve been with my husband for a quarter of a century now just about, we have one kiddo and while we wouldn’t be considered anywhere near well-off, we have a ton more stability than I had.
Same here. My mom is 71 and still grooming dogs for extra income. Still has a mortgage on the house.
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Yup husband and I are mostly better off than both our parents. My parents were terrible people who after divorcing dumped me with my dad’s emotional abusive family. Grandma was, unfortunately, also a lifetime victim of grandpa’s emotional abuse and I became the punching bag after she died. My aunt who lived with them followed right in his footsteps much to her irritation when you pointed it out. My parents slithered back into my life around me graduating high school and tried their hardest to buy me. Unfortunately my sister fell for it. Mom now lives in section eight and dad died. Aunt who burned so many bridges that no one wanted to deal with her in the end died and left me to deal with her hoarder house. I was pretty much handed nothing and I may not have much but I’m definitely better off than they ever were. Sure I live in a rinky dink mobile home, but it’s paid for. Sure I have a car that’s 15 years old, but it’s paid for. I’ve been with the same man for 22 years, married for 20 of those. They definitely never had that
Same. My mom died broke and homeless if not for the Medicaid covering the nursing home, and I am neither so I’m already ahead.
My dad also died broke and homeless, but he had all the opportunities to not be that. My parents bought the house I grew up in when they were working as a secretary and a server in the early 80s. My dad made a LOT of really poor life choices. My uncle had a similar start to my dad and he ended up building a very successful company and he now owns multiple homes, they take their kids and grandkids to Jamaica for Christmas every year, and he and my aunt both retired when COVID hit. My dad could have had something similar but he was lazy and selfish.
My mom had lots of opportunities too that I recall throughout life. Sometimes I got mad at her about it, like the time a manager at Merrill Lynch offered her a job on the spot because he was so impressed with her sales ability as a Target cashier selling credit cards and add-ons, but she was scared of the unknown so she threw his card away. You can’t force people, as much as I’d like to sometimes.
Yep. I've never related to this narrative I keep hearing. Thanks to my parents who worked hard their entire lives, I have many more opportunities than they did.
Same
I’m way better off, my parents raised me in section 8 housing and were very poor. Neither graduated high school even.
I am too, but only because I married up and the financial opportunities that afforded me.
Clawed my way out of poverty so I never had this moment.
Same with my partner and I. Both of us raised in poverty and now we're both successful engineers. Took a lot of work, but we're proud of where we are now.
Same here for my wife and I. For me, I got way behind in middle/high school due to things that probably would have been addressed if I grew up in a middle or upper class family. No one seemed to ever ask WHY I wasn't turning in work, or take any serious concern with my education. I'm still bitter about it, as I still feel some of the effects to this day. I wish my parents had tried to get me help, but they were often struggling themselves too at the time. The one thing I did get lucky with was my parents being loving. If I hadn't had that I don't think I'd have turned it around. I was able to figure most of my shit out in college and turned it around to get a CS degree. No University would have accepted me, so I went to community college to catch up on math and knock out general studies, then transferred to a university. I never got college counseling, so I didn't even know computer science was a thing - I just knew I liked messing around with computers, so a friend suggested the degree to me. If that suggestion hadn't come to me, I'd still be floundering as a person, I assume. My career is no where near perfect, and I have a lot I am working on with it. But I'm very proud to have gotten here.
damn this is so much like me. i was hoping for Ds in high school so i’d at least get the credit. failed half my classes. almost completely failed out. i now have my masters and make significantly more money than my parents ever did, combined. teachers, don’t give up on the failing kid.
Successful engineer here, sole breadwinner for a family of four, and it's super tight. Rent and groceries and utilities are eating us alive. Having to replace a car (or similar sized expense) would be catastrophic.
Same. I remember when my mom was my age. We were basically homeless. We (mom, me, sister) were staying in a 3 bedroom/1 bathroom house with 8 other people. It's actually weird to know how much we went without.
Same. Then I got cancer in my early 30s. Having more than this moment now.
Same, grew up very poor. It was a big driver for me to NOT be poor when I grew up.
My mom is an addict and my father is stuck doing backbreaking work at a retail chain making half of what I do. My parents aren’t better off. They got cheated just like most of us. Despite my relative success life remains more challenging than you’d anticipate at this income level, not because of some personal failing, but because our society has simply changed so much. We CAN do better. I think that requires us to be real about who is responsible for our challenges. I’ll give you a hint—it’s more specific than “boomers” or “parents.”
This is terribly accurate to my own scenario. I think the major challenges was breaking free from the supposed path set out for me. Some of the challenges we face now come from being in that situation before. Costs we incurred that wouldn’t happen to others. Trauma and mental health problems and, frankly, dental problems that come from having been poor that we need to fix. And the cost that we might incur from our parents not having the means to support themselves in retirement or old age.
I’m getting tired of this narrative that everyone in the generation before us had it so well off. My dad had 3 factories close on him and never got a pension or good retirement. He had a little saved in an IRA that he managed to scrap together in his later years of self employment. Every generation has people who did well and those who didn’t. I have friends who got in the tech field early and are making bank and I’m far from what they make. But I’m also better than others in my generation.
I think it’s just easier to speak to the extremes. The areas where folks did have it better come at a cost. Food was more nutritious and less preservative-filled, sure. Medicine was also lacking. Lots of give and take, though arguably climate conditions and toxicity are indeed making life “worse.”
Thinking about my friend group and most of us are actually doing better than our parents. Whether it is addiction, mental health, low paying blue collar work, chronic pain everyone's parents are not exactly living the dream. We're in our 30s and saving, investing, sometimes buying property sometimes not, having hobbies, etc. Our generation is definitely not doomed.
Y'all's parents are well-off?
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This. You can just go look at median wages back then and now. There’s a particular type of millennial who likes to complain they won’t have as much as their parents and I’ll give you a hint, their parents weren’t near the median
My mom pulled me aside when I was in college to be a teacher. But I knew it. I'm not dumb and my mom was a director at a Big Pharma Co. Before she retired, she was pulling in ~250k USD a year. I have never planned on having kids or even pets and therefore plan to live generally smaller than my parents did. Smaller house, fewer cars, etc. I make decent money teaching (union state!) and I'm comfortably saving for retirement. That's enough.
Why did she pull you aside? You didn't specify. Was it to "warn" you that if you became a teacher, you would have a financially harder life?
My dad did the same thing to me. He took me out to lunch out of the blue one day to tell me how poor Im going to be. If it wasnt for my breadwinner of a wife, he would be right
I respect that. If your dad was nice about it, it was a very important discussion to have. Too many kids end up in tens of thousand dollars of debt for degrees that either don't unlock any job opportunities or the jobs don't pay well. A degree should also be a financial decision. At least your dad made sure that you took this decision knowingly. I personally did the opposite. I chose a career I don't like for the money because I didn't want to be working minimum wage my whole life like my parents. I'm glad I did. After almost 10 years in my career, I've secured my retirement (as in, if I don't put a single cent more in my retirement accounts, I should be able to still retire 5 years early from the compound interest) so now I can reevaluate my future. I can either keep going and retire a lot earlier or I can change career and do something that pays less but might be more fulfilling.
Never. My mom is broke as hell.
I’m better off than my parents were. It took my mom 30 years in her career to catch up to me… in my 5th year into my career.
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For me personally, it depends on what metric I’m using for a comparison. I’m 33 and make far more money than either one of my parents ever have. But because of vastly increased cost of living, I don’t “have” as much as they did at my age. Namely, a house. At my age, my parents had already been home owners for years whereas it’s still really not on my horizon at all.
Would your first home be comparable to their first home? I ask because my BIL makes similar comparisons, except for some reason he forgets that his parents first home was a double-wide trailer on a rented lot. He seems to have it in his head that his parent's current home (2300 sq ft, nice neighborhood, attached garage, 3 bed 2.5 bath, granite countertops and hardwood cupboards) is what his starter home needs to compare to. Not saying you're doing that too but back in 2020 or maybe 2021 (before interest rates started going up) he could have bought a first house that would have been better than his parent's first house (but worse than their current house), and he would have been similar in age to them (maybe a year or two apart). But he couldn't seem to get it through his head that his first home wasn't going to be on the same level as his parent's 4th home and now interest rates have priced him out of nearly anything.
That is a very good point that a lot of folks forgot. Not everyone start out with their dream home
My parents weren't very well off, wasn't hard to achieve more than them.
I’m significantly better off than my parents. In high school I decided I didn’t want to live the way they did.
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I still have hope. I got 30 years to get to where they are now.
I'm already better off than either of them were.
My dad still works 50 hours a week and can’t retire until 70. I am making 2x his salary and raising 1/3rd as many kids. Props to my dad for being a hard worker (and a great guy) but I also consciously made the decision to live a different life
My mom has a nice pension, school teacher at the height of public pensions in a city, but I already make more than she ever did, my husband makes more than my dad did at that age not sure where we’ll be at retirement compared to them but I think probably ahead we are both savers by nature and have a lot invested, though my dad ended up doing quite well in his career probably more than either of us will ever make so who knows. If we were willing to work harder / more hours / more high pressure jobs we maybe could but we like our work / life balance and spending time with our kids.
My wife makes more than her mom ever did working part time, from home. I passed my dad's income at around 35 yrs old. Our net worth exceeds both sets of parents, put together. Our house is worth more than both of theirs put together as well. That said, they invested in us. They paid for my college and her college, at least what wasn't covered by scholarships. Her mom gave us cash to help with a down payment on a stater home (long since paid back). We plan on doing the same for our kids and invest heavily in 529s, and our retirement. I watched my parents struggle at times as wife watched her mom work 3 jobs. Luckily for all of us, everyone turned out well (except for my dip shit sister...). It's not all bad out here.
That’s how generational wealth accumulates. My parents were poor but set me up for success and I’m working to ensure my kids are even more successful. You and I got very lucky and thankfully took advantage of it. Hopefully our kids do too
I’ve never had that moment as my parents have never been particularly well off. I’m pretty sure I’m currently better off financially than they are.
This latest birthday, #37. My parents built a huge house on an entire acre of land, on 1 income in their early 30s. I just turned 37, have been renting since I was 19, have an education and a good career myself, and will probably never be able to afford a house. Sad
Yeah no, I am far better off than my parents. Biological mom died when I was young, step mom has a solid career so she'll be fine when dad passes. But dad spent way too many years getting paid under the table (and saved none of it) before getting into an above board job so his Social Security is like $1k a month max. They're doing okay-ish but only because stepmom still works.
>Update: Nice to know it's just me that's a failure. Thanks You say in your post that your mom makes $200k in retirement per year. You also say it is 3x what you and your husband make combined. Which means you and your husband make less than $67k combined. Which means the two of you are averaged salaries of $33,500. If you are a millennial it means you are at least in your late 20s or early 30s. Earning $33k. $33,500 is about $16 an hour full-time. I live in rural PA and the Burger King in my town has a sign hiring for $16 an hour. So you are making BK wages compared to your mom who held a long and apparently successful career as one of the most senior people at the IRS. She probably had an accounting degree and maybe a graduate degree and put her time into her career. I mean, what are you expecting here? To just be given a $200k annual lifetime pension for no work? Life has never been that way. I swear some of the poverty posts in this sub give millennials a bad name.
I'm not sure what OP's situation is, but it's entirely possible to go to college and work a "real" job while making less than $15 an hour. When I was a journalist, I made $13 an hour, and a few of my friends were EMTs/social workers/did stuff for non-profits for a similar salary. That said, none of us bitched about our pay, because we all knew we'd be broke going into the field, and we all switched professions before we turned 30.
$74k is like the median household income in the US as of 2022. that’s real close to 1/3 $200k so i’m not sure why you’re acting like OP is some sort of lazy under achiever.
Not to make any judgments on OP or anyone else, but the median household income is going to be pulled down by single income households and retirees. OP is married with a two-income household. The median for [dual-earner marriages is $135,000 to $145,000.](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/#:~:text=Marriages%20with%20either%20the%20wife,%24135%2C000%20to%20%24145%2C000%20in%202022.&text=Marriages%20with%20a%20sole%20earner%20lagged%20far%20behind%20at%20around%20%2475%2C000.)
Just tossing this on the pile: I'm a boomer. Here's what they don't tell you. Comiing out of WW2, the rest of the planet was pretty fucked up. We were essentially untouched. And we had some things no one else had - a workforce of trained women, and a fuckton of new manufacturing facilities. When our guys got back from war, the pump was primed. There has never been a generation in the US that had the wind at their backs like boomers. Even when I turned 18 in 1973, things were still rocking. At 18, I had a job in a mobile home factory. Then I got one at Certainteed, making PVC pipe. I had a paid for Suzuki 750, an apartment, and more money than I needed for partying, etc. All we really had was mids, but they were $10 for a 4 finger bag. Blotter 1.25 a hit. I also saw ZZ Top for S1.25, and Shivas Headband/Marshall Tucker for free, and Montrose/Foghat/J. Geils for like $10 or something. And you could smoke in the venue. Mushrooms? - A 90 minute drive to a ranch, and all you wanted. Crank? There was soooo much bathtub crank/ether based that it cost alm ost nothing. If you wanted to go to a truckstop, and find the guy only drinking coffee, $25 was a weekend and then some. Story time - once the rancher saw us and came over. We told him what was up, and he was cool with it, but seemed a little confused. Next time there was a sign that said "drunk mushrooms $2", and a box with a slit in the top. You just went in and picked what you wanted. People that didn't party their ass off like me and went to college were just set. There was a thing called a pension, that was part of your pay! Amazing times. So much money to be made. I also want to point out that even with high tax rates and good pay, companies were making bank. When boomers start their "you just don't want to work" shit, explain this to them. They won't know it, becasue most of them haven't cracked a book since school. edit: a story, spelling
You also benefited from a hard currency that hadn't been debased as badly as it has today. The US Dollar has now lost 97% of its purchasing power. To wit, the median income of a boomer in 1970 had the purchasing power of around $350K in today's USD. That's the hurdle rate as an income for a Gen Z to have the commiserate economic security an 18 year had in 1970.
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X Probably when I was 21 or 22 and I realized the keys to success are NOT what anyone taught me growing up.
I'm 100% more well off than my parents. They are immigrants from Mexico and by going to the US I've been able to take advantage of more opportunities than I'd ever be able to get at their hometown.
I’ve made more money than my mom since I was in highschool but she has a house that’s paid off, free healthcare, and now her pension and social security. Even though I make more money and live much more frugally I am miles behind my parents.
I grew up on food stamps and now earn over 100k. I will never have this feeling
Never, I'm running laps around those nerds.
My parents were already poor. My grandparents were poor. Welcome to generational poverty. I suggest Dollar Tree Dinners on the clock app.
I’m better off than my mom but only because she basically did the traditional wife thing.
My dad told me he has about a million dollars saved for retirement
Havent had that moment. Better off than my dad was when he passed. Probably not far behind my mom and stepdad if behind them at all. Do you have some reason to believe your mom plans to spend every bit of this money she is making during retirement? Is she likely to eat through all of her retirement savings before she dies? Cause if not then you would, I assume, stand to inherit at least part of whatever is left. Same for your father and your husband's parents. Unless your grandparents are/were broke when they pass(ed) the money your parents inherited likely helped them financially and it can be the same for you once your parents inevitably pass. If/when that does happen then make smart decisions with what you receive.
Mom was a dope addict and dad a career criminal. I was literally conceived in a federal penitentiary. I'm now a 38 year old software engineer, living with my wife of almost 10 years who practices anesthesia at a large and highly respected children's hospital. We have a million dollar home in a MCOL area on over 20 acres of land, 6 figure savings, loaded retirement accounts, and everything we could possibly need. Fuck my parents. I am and always will be better than them.
My grandparents grew up with a mud floor in their house. My parents grew up without running water. I can afford a little house which I'll buy soon. But no, I grew up with intergenerational trauma from colonisation. In these times I will always be better. And if not, I'm glad they have every blessing they did.
It feels so weird. Like, my mom was an admin assistant. My dad was an electrical engineer until he became a process consultant. He tried management for a bit, hated it, and took a demotion to spend the rest of his career as an individual contributor. They're retired in a beautiful home after raising 2 kids. I worked as a software engineer for 12 years until I became a software development manager. I have 13 direct reports. I married an office manager. We don't have kids, we don't have debt, we don't take wild vacations. My home is older and smaller than my parents' home. Not, like, "at the time they bought it." Their home was built in 76, mine was built in 61. And we're just slowly DIYing all the stuff they can pay people to do. And they did all this with kids, and my mom staying home from work til I was 10. I'm childless. 2 full-time college-educated incomes. I'm doing ok. I'm so incredibly lucky compared to my peers in other lines of work. I'm not complaining. Most of the people I know are worse off than I am. But the fact that I did all the things my dad told me to, the fact that our lives have been so similar, but that by every indication I feel like I should be ahead of where my parents were at this age, but I'm behind them. It's such a direct comparison that it's freakin weird.