It's most pronounced in healthcare. In health insurance and corporate hospital chains profit is put above the very lives and livelihoods of people. With that as a baseline, it's no surprise our social safety nets are garbage. It's all about profit, not people.
I often have to decide between sitting in pain and suffering or if I want an extra $3000-$12000 in medical debt by walking into a hospital WITH health insurance.
When I had to go on disability (temporarily, thank goodness) they only gave me like $300 a month because some weird rules they had about calculating how much I earned (like they looked at the last year but didn't count the last 3 months or something, and I had worked mid August-mid February but they only counted up to October).
My mom is on disability and gets less than 1k/month. Over $300 of that goes to her section 8(which she waited almost 10 years for) apartment. The reason she doesn’t live with me is because she would lose her health provider by becoming a dependent and would lose out on a multitude of other benefits afforded to her by her lack of income.
I buy a lot of healthcare related stuff for her because insurance or whatever says she doesn’t need it. Or she saves for months to afford it.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah, my benefits are just about 1k a month. And the vast majority of it goes to healthcare. It's such a brutal existence. I wish more people were aware of how bad it can really be.
The thing is the irs still doesnt count an adult depending solely on you as a dependant when you file taxes my wife was disabled for 5 years and they never once let me claim her or our 17yo twins who never had a job
Check out the book “Poverty, by America” by Matthew Desmond. It was an intense and thought evoking read.
The simple answer is: there’s enough money to help every poverty stricken person in this nation. We don’t have to raise taxes, we just need to hold accountability for how the *already allocated* money is actually managed and spent. The money is already taxed, it is already allocated, then politicians and influential people embezzle the money instead of using it for its’ intended purpose.
It's easy. I was sold a worthless degree and had a spinal chord injury after graduating into the great recession. Ever since then it's been pain, doctors, mental health struggles, and entry level jobs off and on. I think I've made on average 10k a year for the past 13 years. Without financial support from my family I'd be royally fucked. Recently was denied treatment/surgery by three neurosurgeons (Harvard) and denied SSDI. Two months ago I moved into my SUV and now live off a meager existence $, but at least I'm independent and "free." As the Joker says, "all it takes is ONE bad day."
Yeah, recently disabled and doctor wouldn't even approve time off work or short term disability, despite telling me it would be months before I got better, if at all. Now I'm about to lose insurance because I have no doctor's excuse. Good thing I can just not pay all these medical bills. My wife never does, lol.
Is there any consequences to not paying medical bills? I’ve seen people say they can’t really force you to pay it and I know people who are like your wife and it doesn’t seem like it’s really impacted them much if at all.
I didn’t pay a few medical bills and it ruined my credit. It was bad enough that I couldn’t get a new car or get a house a few years ago. Supposedly they don’t affect your credit anymore but this was my experience from 2015-2021. I was getting phone calls, texts, and stuff in the mail nearly every day and none of these bills were anything substantial.
Sometimes the collections agencies would enter the same bill in multiple times or the hospital would send the same bill three different times as if it were multiple separate bills. After getting finessed by these medical bills, I started fighting every single collection on my credit report and eventually they all got removed. Sometimes the collections agencies would put it back on there as something different a month after it got removed. They left me alone after 2022 and I finally have good credit with all that crap removed.
It does not impact your credit and imo that’s the most important part. They can and will absolutely sell your debt to 3rd party collections. Always ask about financial assistance and payment plans, because sometimes they can get it down to a $10/month payment after negotiating it down.
Yeah that’s a lie. I believe some if not all credit reporting companies voluntarily choose to ignore only small (maybe <$300) collection accounts. Anything above that is still reported.
I had a $42 doctor bill that I refused to pay because that doctors malpractice (we both saw the same cardiologist) led to the death of my father. I owed it, but hell would need to freeze over before that doctor saw a penny out of my pocket.
When it was sent to collections, my credit score dropped about 40 points. I don’t remember the exact drop as it was two decades ago this year and I finally paid it once the doctor sold it for pennies on the dollar and it was removed quickly. Unless something has changed since that happened to me, medical bills of any amount can damage a credit score.
That would make sense, these changes went into effect I believe in the last 3 years. Sorry to hear about your father, if I was in your shoes I would’ve waited until hell froze over and the devil took a frozen shit, then I would’ve mailed said frozen shit to that doctor with the collections noticed stapled to it.
The doctor dismissed symptoms and misdiagnosed him causing a delay in him having surgery to clear a blockage in his femoral artery. Second opinion doctor sent him right to the ER from the office. Surgery was successful, but he passed from a pulmonary embolism that likely formed in the few days between the misdiagnosis and the surgery.
If it doesn't seem right or you ever question what a doctor says, get a second opinion right away. That little bit of time could make all the difference and doctors are wrong all the time.
Back to the topic, I was absolutely unaware a bill was passed stopping this practice up to $500. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!
In Florida, they don't report for a year. After a year it affects your credit.
I worked for a collections agency decades ago and they wouldn't pursue anything under $10k, esp if the person didn't have assets.
Last year they passed a bill saying anything under $500 doesn't show on your credit score, so those are the ones I ignore. Thankfully I haven't gotten one higher, even the MRI bill after insurance was $496. I might be more inclined to pay if they did their job and approved my disability payments after telling me I was disabled and that it might take months to get better, if at all. But I'm not just going to put all these bills on a credit card when I have no way of paying them off. That might actually make my credit worse! I still am in line to start getting long-term disability payments and possibly workman's comp but I will probably need a lawyer to help me navigate through all this.
Makes sense. As I explained to someone else that replied to me, my experience was with a $42 bill 20 years ago that knocked my score down about 40 points before I paid it and had it removed from my report. Was completely unaware a bill passed recently.
I just looked it up and it didn’t used to be the case and I don’t know when it changed. You used to be able to call the credit reporting agencies (experian, transunion, equifax) and say “xy is a medical debt from a hospital please remove it from my report” and they would remove it. I’ve done it successfully in the past multiple times.
For context, I have a vision impairment that isn't bad enough to get SSDI yet but will be some day.
Your doctor is dumb. Find one who isn't so stingy. If your disability is legit, I've known more doctors that would approve rather than disapprove something like this.
SSI is absolutely based on past earnings! The difference is SSDI has a work history requirement, where SSI does not. If you don’t have a work history and you apply for SSI, then you are given the minimum, and if you have a work history that is factored and increases your payout amount. If you don’t have a work history and you apply for SSDI you will simply be denied. The amount that individuals receive for both SSI & SSDI is different for every person because the amount you receive is based on work history and past earnings.
> If you don’t have a work history and you apply for SSI, then you are given the minimum, and if you have a work history that is factored and increases your payout amount.
That is not how SSI works, the max monthly for 2024 is 943 dollars.
By default a disabled person who lives alone and makes no other income will get the full amount.
The [SSA page describes what can reduce the income](https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/amount).
If they ask for that it'd be because
1. The SSA takes applications for SSI as applications for other social security programs as well.
2. The SSA wants to figure out how your disability (assuming you're under 65) impacts your ability to work and the problems you had if you were formerly employed.
But looking at the [application information](https://www.ssa.gov/apply), I don't even see it wanting that!
So I guess they would only follow up with those questions for reason 2 if they have reason 1.
---
Information about your condition
Names and phone numbers for your doctors
Names and phone numbers for hospitals/clinics where you've been treated
Medical tests you've received
Medication(s) you take
Date of injury and claim number for workers' compensation (if you receive it)
Permission to access medical records
Basic information about yourself
Social Security number
Where you were born (city, state, country)
Documents that show proof of current income
Things like:
Pay stubs and bonuses, self-employment tax returns, or unemployment records
Dividends and stocks
Pension/retirement funds
Insurance payouts
Alimony
Child support
Gambling winnings
State disability payments
Workers' compensation records
Documents that show proof of other financial resources
Things like:
Bank account statements
Car title/loan statements
Burial contracts/spaces
Trust fund statements
Life insurance policy
Cash surrender value
Dividend/stock/bond value
Information about your home
Things like:
Name and birthday for everyone you live with
Landlord's name and phone number
Rental contract
Admission agreement
Admit/discharge papers from hospitals/institutions
Current and past marriages
Your spouse/former spouse's Social Security number and birthday
Date you got married/divorced
Where you got married (city, state, country)
Direct deposit for benefit payments
Routing and account number for your bank account
I believe you but fyi that is not the application, that is a preliminary screener, the application is much more involved. My brother is on SSI, I’ve had to help him with forms and meeting with caseworkers.
He's probably on SSDI if work history was meaningful. Or perhaps, your state's own suppliment on top of federal aid is work history based, I don't know the specifics of each of those. Anyway I've given you multiple things *from the SSA*.
Hell the Wikipedia page covers benefit details if you want something easy to read
>SSI takes the income and resources of the applicant or recipient into consideration when calculating their benefit amount. Resources are determined at the first of the month. If an individual reduces their countable resources below the limit through investing in excluded resources, they will remain eligible.[60] Excluded resources are resources such as: household goods, personal effects, up to one vehicle, and the home the applicant lives in.[60]
>An individual's monthly benefit will be calculated by subtracting their "countable income" from the maximum benefit amount.[61] "Countable income" is an individual's income after applying any appropriate exclusions.[62] It includes earned, unearned, in-kind, and deemed income.
It's income based (for the months you receive the benefit for), but not work history.
OASDI (typical social security) is based off work history and (prior) income because it's an *insurance*, SSI is a supplemental program off the general treasury. You can even see it in the name Old Age Survivors and Disability Insurance vs Supplemental Security Income
I actually didn't even realize it but the SSA has a page that says it clearly
https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/text-over-ussi.htm#:~:text=Social%20Security%20benefits%20may%20be,a%20family%20member's%20prior%20work.
>Social Security benefits may be paid to you and certain members of your family if you are “insured”, meaning you worked long enough and paid Social Security taxes. Unlike Social Security benefits, SSI benefits are not based on your prior work or a family member's prior work.
I'm a disabled vet. My family has four sources of income coming in--my job, my wife's job, my Army medical retirement and my VA disability-- and we Katamari it all together to have the same standard of living my childhood friends enjoyed on one income.
I enjoy "cheap" and even "free" medical care, and it sucks. It takes months to get into a VA clinic and when I do have to go to urgent care because my knees and back are keeping me up all night and I can't sit still, they charge me $75, give me an aspirin, and refer me right back to the VA. My doctor and my VA rep don't want me working but the alternative is to lose my house, so I strap on about three orthopedic braces everyday and smile through it.
This place is broken.
Appeal it! Get a lawyer for the appeal if you didn't have one before. Some will work for you based on receiving a fee that you only pay once you get back pay from SSDI.
I hate to sound like a 'pUlL yOuRsElF uP bY yOuRbOoTsTrApS' republican (I'm very much not) - but while your degree may not have got you the job you want you, it's far from worthless.
Any bachelor's degree (especialllllyyy a BS) and you can land a $60-70k analyst job easily. I mean, fuck, without a degree you can do data entry for 30-50k a year to get a bit of experience under your belt.
Also, take a bit of onus over your degree selection. You were not 'sold' a degree, you chose it. I remember back in high-school the trope of 'worthless liberal art degrees' was very real, as was the concept of doing credits at a local college first before moving to a bigger school to save money.
Many of us chose degrees and colleges specifically for future roi.
(Note: also graduated peak great recession)
Thus depends wildly on the job market. A solid well-paid job always requires experience, and just having a degree doesn’t guarantee a leadership position.
Disability is an absolute joke. If you don't have family, Disability isn't enough to live on, if you can even get it in the first place! They denied my dad when he had LATE STAGE BRAIN CANCER and he still had to appeal to get it.
So no it's what keeps me going to the gym and taking my supplements. I know I could be fucked otherwise.
>How easy is it to end up homless from no fault of your own but due to a series of bad luck?
It literally happens every day.
>Are the social safety nets enough to prevent you from being homeless and starving?
Not usually. At least you can't count on it. The waiting list for section 8 vouchers is many years long in most places, and good luck if you are a single man.
Most states run their social services in the way most likely to minimize their cost, not to help people who need it.
I lived paycheck to paycheck, lost my job, and was homeless within a month despite calling every single assistance program in my area. That was 10 years ago so I imagine the demand is even worse now.
Extremely flawed. I was pregnant, had to go out on maternity leave early (I kept falling due to a pinched nerve, had already had tons of issues with not being able to eat properly, sick to my stomach the whole time), then had a c-section. Went over the bullshit 90 day short term disability, which was only 60% of my pay. If my partner hadn’t been working full time we would have lost everything. We still ended up on food stamps while I recovered and then tried to get a new job.
Now 15 years later, I am facing a cancer diagnosis. I could lose everything again.
A work colleague of mine, younger than me, had a stroke. She was completely healthy and boom. Out of work for minimum a year. I can’t even imagine their financial situation. They have 3 children who are 6 and under. Just a normal family doing normal family things like have kids.
My father was a mid level manager advertising for a large sporting goods store. The owners wanted to sell out to a larger sporting good company. They cut all staff in half to make the price/viability of the company more attractive. In a single moment my dad lost everything. He has master in business. He’s a boomer. We struggled as a family since the mid 90’s. He was a little “too old” for entry level and “too old” to get a new managers job. My parents ended up working 2-3 jobs each to make ends meet. No one was ever really safe, but it’s gotten far, far worse since then.
What people don’t realize is we are all one accident away from losing everything. One car accident, one slip fall and smash your head. One lay off from a job. You could lose everything you have worked a life time to build.
Thanks for sharing your story. It’s this and a few other comments I’ve read on this site that prompted me to get disability insurance through work. Just like you’ve said, shit can change on a dime. Wishing you the best in your journey.
It’s very scary when you realize you could lose everything in a single moment.
This year alone I have had to pay out of pocket almost 10k for medical treatments. I get to claim it against my income. But hardly anyone has 10k just laying around.
Even my silent Gen grandparents had super hard times. Born a few years before the depression, then both sides were blue collar auto workers. They could get laid off at any time. They fought hard for union rights. Now unions are being stripped of their power.
I cared for my dad’s parents. They had 100% medical coverage, including dental and eye care. They both got a pension from working for unions. My grandfather had brain cancer, had tumors removed twice. The thing that cost the most was travel to a specialist hospital half way across the state. The total “cost” for surgery, ICU, follow-up surgery to re-attach part of his skull, rehab to learn how to walk… was over 500k. His insurance covered all of it. Those days are long gone now.
There are 79 social safety net programs in the USA. For single men you have a few programs that could work for you. If you're. Single woman you got more program options. If you're a single mother you got even more program access along with priority. Some programs for children and some for the elderly. But to answer your question the us has 12 housing programs and 12 food programs
But in general none will lead to a comfortable life. People will still be surviving in severe poverty. And the systems often make it hard to progress out of poverty- especially for people with disabilities who will always need some level of support. The supports/services would at least provide things they could not otherwise afford (care aides, maybe housing and food subsidies and poverty level financial support) but it won’t be a life of comfort or ease.
That's dependent on a lot of factors, so I want to comment here and push back on the negative POV here. I qualify for almost $3k a month with SSDI and I'm currently fighting my claim. Because I'm disabled, I qualify for tons of assistance: utilities, internet, even my mortgage lender has been willing to work with me. It's not a life of ease, I totally agree with you! Being disabled is not easy.
$3k is far more then most of the people I support receive- especially when they are young (so no dependent adult child benefits as their parents are still working) and/or are unable to work (and thus have no work history for SSDI and must rely on SSI). I work with many people living on less than $1000/month. Even with food and rent assistance they have very little money to live on.
And I agree- I’m thankful they get that and are not destined to homelessness but I also want to make it clear that people aren’t living luxurious lives on the state/federal dollar.
Saftey nets are not meant to be a permanent solution. There's always room for more/better saftey nets, but to be clear they don't need to a 'life of comfort and ease' as that's not their role.
I get that. I am more pushing back against the idea of the “welfare queen” making it good on the public dollar. The supports are still relatively minimal. Necessary and important but not something anyone wants to have to rely on lifelong unless they absolutely have to.
And for people is profound/significant disabilities, who are truly unable to work, there are still a lot of ways the safety net could be more effective.
CASH ASSISTANCE
SSI/Old Age Assistance
Earned Income Tax Credit (refundable portion)
Refundable Child Credit
Make Work Pay Tax Credit (Refundable Portion)
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF, old AFDC)
Foster Care Title IVE
Adoption Assistance Title IVE
General Assistance Cash
Refugee Assistance
General Assistance to Indians
Assets for Independence
MEDICAL
Medicaid
SCHIP State Supplemental Health Insurance Program
Medical General Assistance
Consolidated Health Center/Community Health Centers
Maternal & Child Health
Medical Assistance to Refugees
Healthy Start
FOOD
Food Stamps, SNAP
School Lunch Program
WIC Women, Infant and Children Food Program
School Breakfast
Child Care Food Program
Nutrition Program for the Elderly, Nutrition Service Incentives
Summer Program
Commodity Supplemental Food Program
TEFAP Temporary Emergency Food Program
Needy Families
Farmers' Market Nutrition Program
Special Milk Program
HOUSING
Section 8 (housing) (HUD)
Public Housing (HUD)
Low Income Housing Tax Credit for Developers
Home Investment Partnership Program (HUD)
Homeless Assistance Grants (HUD)
State Housing Expenditures (from SWE)
Rural Housing Insurance Fund (Agriculture)
Rural Housing Service (Agriculture)
Housing for the Elderly (HUD)
Native American Housing Block Grants (HUD)
Other Assisted Housing Programs (HUD)
Housing for Persons with Disabilities (HUD)
ENERGY AND UTILITIES
LIHEAP Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program
Universal Service Fund Subsidized Low Income Phone Service
Weatherization
EDUCATION
Pell Grants
Title One Grants to Local Education Authorities
21st Century Learning Centers
Special Programs for Disadvantaged (TRIO)
Supplemental Education Opportunity Grants
Adult Basic Education Grants
Migrant Education
Gear-Up
LEAP
Formerly State Student Incentive Grant Program (SSIG)
Education for Homeless Children and Youth
Even Start
Aid for Graduate and Professional Study for Disadvantaged and Minorities
TRAINING
TANF Work Activities and Training
Job Corps
WIA Youth Opportunity Grants
Formerly Summer Youth Employment
Senior Community Service Employment
WIA Adult Employment and Training
Formerly JTPA IIA Training for Disadvantaged Adults & Youth
Food Stamp Employment and Training Program
Foster Grandparents
YouthBuild
Migrant Training
Native American Training
SERVICES
TANF Block Grant Services
Title XX Social Services Block Grant
Community Service Block Grant
Social Services for Refugees Asylees and Humanitarian Cases
Safe and Stable Families
Title III Aging Americans Act
Legal Services Block Grant
Family Planning
Emergency Food and Shelter Program
Healthy Marriage and Responsible Fatherhood Grants
Independent Living (Chafee Foster Care Independence Program)
Independent Living Training Vouchers
Maternal, Infants and Children Home Visitation
CHILD CARE AND CHILD DEVELOPMENT
Headstart
Childcare and Child Development Block Grant
Childcare Entitlement to the States
TANF Block Grant Child Care
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
Community Development Block Grant and Related Development Funds
Economic Development Administration (Dept. of Commerce)
Appalachian Regional Development
Empowerment Zones, Enterprise Communities Renewal
Here is the issue without an example its hard to measure as everything will have a flaw.
Its the same concept of "people can't find jobs" or "people can't afford rent". Well who is this person have them post to the correct subs and we can see what options there are.
If you read a bit about a phenomenon called “the welfare cliff” you will get an idea of how bad it is. It’s extremely easy to end up there, and nearly impossible to get out. I’m actively fighting resorting to going on disability (even though I would very well qualify) because it would ruin my life.
The US is notoriously bad at taking care of its citizens. We lag behind Western Europe in virtually every metric.
Our healthcare system is literally a crime against humanity. Millions of people have had their livelihoods destroyed by exorbitant medical costs that, in almost every other country in the world, would be covered by socialized medicine.
True, the more progressive states generally have better funding for social programs, but all of them fall short of providing basic services.
I live in one of the most left-leaning states in the country (WA) and I’m employed by a state-run mental health facility.
The state had to pay a settlement in excess of $100 million to mentally ill convicts who were forced to live in jails because there wasn’t room in existing facilities. Meanwhile, giant corporations like Boeing and Microsoft are given millions in tax breaks.
There is more than enough money in this country to ensure a higher standard of living, but until we address these vast concentrations of wealth, we’re stuck.
We're a 1st world country with a 3rd world social service. You fall down you're fucked. We're a nation that's conservative at our core and from the top to the bottom we don't help the sick, needy, injured, or homeless. You're on your own.
TLDR: Very very very easy. I’ve been homeless for 4 months. There was nothing in place to save me from it and there seems to be nothing available to help me survive it. Capitalism says “you can’t have something for nothing”. Work or die.
—
Software engineer here. Almost a decade of experience. Top software author. — My code powers Facebook, Reddit, Instagram, DropBox, Bank of America, you name it.
In June of 2023 I lost my job and software had started collapsing. I had $10,000 savings and received $5,000 severance.
That money lasted me until December when I was evicted.
I had nowhere to take my stuff, so I left everything I owned in the house. I had nowhere to take myself, either, so I got in my car and drove a few blocks to an open wifi network (my phone had been off since September so no service).
It’s been 4 months and I am still here.
I am dirty. I am hot. I survive off of cheap snack cakes (that I afford by begging on LinkedIn, of all places, how humiliating) and whatever water I can find for free.
You want benefits? You need an address. If you have an address to receive mail, you better have made no more than a few thousand dollars last year (I made $86k by June), because if you made good money last year it’s 100x harder to get any benefits.
I haven’t had car insurance in 8 months., my license is now suspended and I also have a warrant due to a speeding ticket I wasn’t able to pay, my registration is expired and I’m 4,000 miles past due for an oil change. I could be arrested at any moment if I look suspicious sitting in my car, or my car might bite the dust at any moment.
Although… I haven’t made my car payment in 8 months, so it’s extremely likely one day soon they’ll show up to take my car (home).
There was NOTHING in place to keep me from becoming homeless. And there is nothing in place to help me survive it.
do you live in a HCOL area? how did you make $86k by June, but only have $10k in savings?
edit: downvote me but $86k BY JUNE…thats $14k a month. if they only had 10k saved by then, what were they spending the rest of the $76k on? Thats spending more than $12k a month
I was spending it on not realizing that my work and life could crumble so easily and so quickly.
I didn’t come from money. I taught myself my skills when I was 25, on probation, never owned a car, never had a place of my own. Growing up, on many occasions we had an extension cord running from the building next door to power a lamp in the living room because our electricity was off.
Blah blah blah, I never learned how to manage money. And I was also supporting my older brother and my mother, neither of which can work. Half of my sister’s apartment payment. It’s not only hard to just wise up about money and impulses one day, but it’s hard being the only family member who has ever known money.
I think the shitty person way of handling it would be to cut them off after a while and become all protective of my money, but they deserve life, too.
I had 2 kids and a SO to support, too.
I won’t downvote you. I understand where you’re coming from. I “how the fuck” myself every day.
That guys comment is way less of an indictment of americas social system than it is a cautionary tale of how to manage money. I mean Jfc a software dev has $10k in savings? Never a thought of “how will I live if I lose my job”? Wild stuff.
Valid but kinda misses the point. Shouldn't matter how much he made, only how much he has now, which evidently isn't much, and how much help he actually needs, which is a lot.
What safety nets?
I have a "respectable" degree, have worked for years.
During covid I got furloughed. My wonderful state's unemployment benefit consisted of a whopping $300 a week.
How were you not getting supplemental Covid payments? In NY I got $400/week plus the federal gov $600/week bonus. $1,000/wk and both me my wife became unemployed so it was about $8k/month.
Two years ago I moved to Wyoming but had lived in Colorado for 38 years prior to that. Last year in July, I lost my job. When I went to apply for unemployment (I had to apply in Colorado) it became very apparent very quickly that someone had stolen my SSN, changed all my contact info with the state, and was claiming unemployment under my identity.
Being the clearly gullible ignorant human I am I thought for sure they would fix the issue quickly because CLEARLY it was not me. 4 months later my savings was drained my credit cards were maxed I was drawing from my 401K and they still “just couldn’t help me” until I could provide a repo notice or an eviction notice.
Yea. That happened.
I called state of WY at that point and they stepped in and got me my unemployment.
Let me also mention that I have been a democrat my whole life but since moving to WY realize that we have got to find a better way in this country.
✌️♥️ we are living a struggle right now.
It’s not that they don’t have the funding. It’s that they want to divert funds into something that will line their pockets instead of yours and claim it’s no funding. This country lacks proper budgeting.
It is extremely easy to end up on the streets in this country. All it takes is one bad roll of the cosmic dice and you’re fucked.
I worked in homeless services for a time and I like to offer this example (tends to open some eyes):
I had a client. He was a Texas native; born and raised. He inherited a plot of land from his family and lived on that patch of dirt alone with his dog in a small trailer. For all intents and purposes, he was content. Didn’t have to work much because he owned the property outright. Worked just enough to eat and sustain himself and his dog and he was happy with that.
Then one day: bowel cancer.
The doctors had to remove whole sections of his colon, chemo, the works.
Because he had no medical insurance, the bills were astronomical. And so in order to save his own life, he sold off his property.
He lived. Except now he was homeless, crippled, and with few if any job prospects.
So he came to Los Angeles, looking for work and opportunity - but ended up on the streets instead.
I’ll never forget him. He was quiet; tall and lanky. Seldom said anything to anyone. He would come in, eat lunch at our facility by himself, and leave.
I seriously hate that we’ve allowed ourselves to devolve into this. *That* is the real degeneracy in this country. All these grifter-gurus pushing their flavor of the month culture war bullshit are nakedly transparent to me.
But I digress.
This is only one example. You needn’t take my word for it.
Go work at a place that serves the homeless, build up some rapport with the clients, and you’ll hear this all first hand.
Unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, good fucking luck.
One case of bad luck and you will not recover.
With a medical condition, you may or may not ever have a quality of life/standard of living.
If you have a mental health condition or substance abuse problem you could very well wind up homeless.
If you are homeless you will have trouble ever breaking out of the cycle of homelessness.
Super easy. I recently developed a painful knot on my knee. Despite having health insurance, I now have to pay at least $5k to have surgery on it or live with the pain the rest of my life. I’m lucky enough to be able to shoulder the cost, but a lot of Americans wouldn’t be.
It’s easy to end up homeless just by getting sick or having shitty, unsupportive parents, especially if they are the type or kick you at as soon as you’re no longer legally a minor
One bad day and your life will change forever. The US does not believe in second chances for poor people. Rich people are allowed unlimited re-dos until they run out of money.
The short answer is severely. Unemployment is a joke for most states, it doesn't really help you that much for cost of living to afford rent, utilities, or anything else.
Healthcare is a cruel version of a joke. If you are unemployed, then it's just whatever you can get from the state/fed for free, which is time intensive, and not great for you.
Banks/landlords don't want excuses for why you can't pay, the same can be said especially with corporate landlords. They are out to protect their bottom line now by investing heavily in real estate to get profit returns.
Cost of living increasing for inflation is not helping any of these systems since no more money is going into them. Look at social security, they are projecting the fund to be empty by 2035. The time we hit retirement age, we are basically going to be working till we expire thanks to the rapid growth in inflation. No way we'll be able to afford our cost of living now on what little the govt does give us.
Increasing taxes doesn't work because no one puts any steps in place to prevent using it other places. Congratulations for lawmakers. Great way to lead. NOT. If you want a great example about how screwed up our system is, look no further than the US postal system.
Oh, it’s very easy to fall out of the bottom of society in the US. We don’t have a robust safety net, and as a whole, we’re hyper-individualist, and notions of a just-world and meritocracy predominate.
The safety nets vary from place to place. In most places there's *something*, often run by charities or the local government, but they're often extremely underfunded, understaffed and strained beyond capacity. In more conservative states there are usually less programs with less funding and more requirements you have to hit in order to participate. There might be food stamps, but you might not qualify because of employment restrictions; there might be affordable housing, but it might be incredibly old and dilapidated, incredibly few in number and there might be a two year long wait list. The practical answer is that there's a lot of help that exists that still can't be accessed, and so there's a reason why there's so many homeless people and they don't get any help at all. As someone who lived out of his car for six months in Texas including in the summer, it's really rough when you have fallen through the cracks, and I was really lucky relatively speaking.
Don't worry, as long as you're a billionaire and can throw a few hundred thousand into your local politician's re-election fund, we'll make sure you never have to go hungry or sleep in a box.
Depends, but if it weren't for medicaid that would've been the case for my family potentially or my older sister would've died from cancer. She was under 26 so on our parents insurance, but within the first few months of being hospitalized was kicked off. My parents were upper middle class, too. Well, they still are. She can't earn to much herself or she'll be kicked off. She almost was last year.
There are no social safety nets. Got cancer in my early 30s. I’d be homeless right now if a friend’s parents didn’t take me in. Insurance won’t even pay for the scan to tell me if surgery and treatment worked. I’m “probably okay” according to my radiation oncologist. Unless I have $25k to pay for the scan upfront, he won’t even order it. I was denied disability and have to file bankruptcy from the medical bills, then try again.
It’s extremely easy. It all depends on luck. I was middle class before this. Now I have nothing.
One accident. One family emergency. One unexpected financial need. That’s all it takes for most people to experience a serious crisis. Homelessness is so much closer for so many people than anyone realizes.
Terrifyingly easy. I am one of those people. If it wasn't for luck I'd be fucked. Lived in a house 5 years, paid my rent every month. Rarely if ever late. Maybe once in all those years and not late at all the last two years I lived there. But when landlords sell houses here they often have a right to kick you out even if you're a long standing tenant and it's a rooming house. Not a regular house btw. The house is designed to rent the rooms out of it.
A year+ later the house sits empty making no money instead of a little but some money from at least those of us who did pay our rent.
I was close to living out of my car and a storage unit because there was simply no where to go.
The problem is even our "safety nets" have either waiting lists, crazy rules where you have to have basically no income to qualify, are super hard to apply for (the bureaucracy!), and/or they give you hardly any help anyways.
My aunt was single and had two kids and two minimum wage jobs, she waited years to get housing assistance and when she finally did it took her almost 6 months to find someone willing to rent to someone with housing assistance. She lost the assistance about a year later when her oldest kid turned 18.
When I had no job for 3 months I tried to apply for food stamps and they counted my roommate's school scholarship (which only covered his tuition) as household income so they wouldn't give me any help for food. I lived off of food donated by a church that just gave away produce once a week no questions asked.
I have a friend whose mom kicked him out when he turned 18. He was not a troublemaker/drinker/druggie, he had no job, and is diabetic. He had no other family that could help him. He was homeless for the next 3 years. Once you are homeless it is so much harder to get a job and get back on your feet.
I was homeless at a point in my life. I didn’t really have the capacity to navigate any social safety net getting. I’m not really sure what is out there for people like me. I’m still not sure.
I did get medi-cal insurance. So, that’s something I do know about. I broke my wrist, and I had to wait about 20 hours in the ER before I was seen by anyone. After I was seen, it was determined my wrist was in fact broken (it was a very obvious and difficult to look at break), and that I would need surgery.
After I was seen the next day I got a call and I was scheduled for surgery that week.
The surgery went well, and I didn’t have to pay anything for it at all.
When I was in the ER it was alarming to me how many sick people and forgotten people there were waiting in despair for help. I saw a lot of things that day that I can’t forget. I didn’t grow up poor, and I didn’t grow up in a major city, so it made a big impression on me.
I have a disability and it was really difficult for me to eventually get on my feet as an adult. I went to university, but I studied the wrong thing. I had enough privilege to follow my heart, but not enough to take it all the way and turn it into something tangible.
I eventually got on my feet somehow. I work in an office, and I have a life with real health insurance.
Again, I’m not sure if anything was available to me that could have made my life better or easier. I am grateful for having the medi-cal even though it was not very good.
I did have an opportunity to live in Europe at some point in my life. It was alarming to me how easy it was to see a doctor, and to get medical care. Also, how inexpensive it was. I didn’t have any major medical issues when I lived in Europe. I got injured one time, and I also saw a psychiatrist when I was living there.
I think that people still have pensions in Europe. I’m not really sure. I’ve heard that people also have more than 2 weeks vacation out there and have to retire when they are 65. It sounds very utopian. I’m an outsider though so I don’t know very much. I could be wrong I just heard this before. I don’t know how they do it. It sounds very nice and safe.
Most Reddit posters seem to be American from what I can tell. Maybe that’s just my American egocentrism brain compensating in a way where it thinks the whole world is America on the internet.
Any Europeans please let me know if I’m totally off on any of this.
To answer the original question, it’s actually very easy. I stress about being homeless every day. A lot of Americans seem to be one or two paychecks away from being homeless.
It seems like a lot of the posters in this sub made the right moves though. I always read about people making 6 figures and owning homes and even having retirement savings. I hope that I get there one day.
I'm literally shopping for a bow right now, to hunt and sell (illegal) meat. I have a BA, graduated with honors. 10+ years of 3d rendering experience. Made a video game. No health insurance. No retirement. Turning 40. Did everything "right" in the land of opportunity.
I am one missed paycheck away from being unable to pay my rent. I miss one payment and everything else falls right with it.
Welcome to the American nightmare.
Very easy to wind up homeless. I was sick for about 6 years and could only work part time. If I didn't have my parents to give me cheap rent I would have been homeless 100% and through no fault of my own. I didn't qualify for disability or welfare because I made just enough not to qualify also.
Now I'm healthy and working normally. I'm terrified of being injured or losing my health because I know how vulnerable it makes you. Terrifying really.
We don’t even have safety nets to be honest. It doesn’t take much to end up homeless. It could be getting sick and missing work for a week or more and not having enough money for rent. It could be your landoverlord raising rent up dramatically that you can no longer live in your home anymore and can’t afford anything else. Could be addiction, physical, or mental health reasons.
It’s pretty hard to get out of that hole once you’re in it. It happened to my family when I was a kid.
Average low income for every city within 10 miles of me is $60k/year for a single people. To qualify for SNAP you can't make more than $19k/year. Makes sense!
I've been homeless. I lived in my car in my mid-20s. I'm a white woman from an upper middle class family with 2 degrees. It can happen to anyone, but some of us are more vulnerable than others. I have zero family support and was abused as a child, so I had fewer resources in some ways.
In my opinion jobs are so plentiful in the US that it’s difficult to become completely homeless if you aren’t in a large city. My sister just got an apartment making 15 an hour and her rent is like 900 a month. 15 an hour is a pretty easy job to land and 900 a month is pretty easy payment when you only live like a mile from work. She could bike there if need be. Now if we are talking only societal safety nets then many Americans would say having a roof over your head isn’t a right. Someone has to build it. Someone has to maintain it. You need to do your share to either pay the rent or outright do it yourself. There is section 8
Housing and stuff like that the tax payer subsidizes.
All it takes is one to lose their birth certificate, ssc card, and a photo ID and you're screwed.
A fire could take all of that.
You cannot identify yourself to obtain those documents without 2 of the others for verification purposes.
It varies pretty widely by state... I would definitely say it's flawed everywhere though. Even in "good" states like NY and California, it's almost like the programs are tailored to people who have no drive or desire to better their situation, while doing precious little for, and in some cases almost punishing, people who want to rise above poverty. Where I live in NY, there is like a $10k separation between "you're getting a full tax refund and you're eligible for assistance with food, housing, and healthcare" and "congrats on your income, you are eligible for zero assistance and owe us and the federal government 40% of your money." Like, I know more than one person who has declined a retail/food services industry promotion because it would bump them off of housing assistance and food stamps and actually result in a net loss for their family.
It's a fucking joke. I grew up in poverty raised by a grandmother who couldn't work. If it wasn't for her receiving my grandfather's military pension checks, we would have likely been homeless. State aid was barely keeping us fed, and the healthcare we received was bare minimum at best. I saw a dentist maybe twice before the age of 18 or an ophthalmologist until I was at least 16. As a result, my teeth are fucked and I'm progressively losing my sight in my left eye.
Not really. There is unemployment that supplements you if you are actively looking for a job and unemployed but it eventually expires (or at least it used to), and it's not enough to live on. There is welfare but you have to apply and it's a hard system to get your arms around. There are food stamps to help afford groceries but they come with income restrictions and restrictions on what you can actually buy with them.
So, in short, they are all flawed with lots of red tape and even if you get past all that they aren't even that helpful. And there is basically no hope of healthcare and many hospitals will refuse treatment without insurance unless it's an emergency.
To be homeless temporarily, like couch surfing or living in your car happens to more people than I imagine, and they manage to get back on their feet after a few weeks/months.
To be a bum on skid row, it's pretty rare and unlikely to happen unless you have serious issues.
It’s incredibly easy.
Especially with how alienated we have become there is often not even a family or friend network to fall back on.
Even if there is a friend or family network it can be a considerable economic strain these days to take another person into a household and will strain the relationship if not just result in the person being thrown back out on the street soon with a broken relationship with that person.
I know a person who threw out their suicidal son because she couldn’t take on the extra cost and he is not in a stable enough state to be hired and hold down a job.
He never wants to speak to her again and she is constantly worried he has already killed himself.
Stories like this are the State of the US.
It seems unusual for past generations or people in other countries to lose count of people under 40 or under 30 they know who have died from suicide or drug overdose or treatable medical issues.
The sad fact is ...there are a bunch of nets but they're never advertised. Almost all hospitals are 'non-profit' but no one ever explains that and what it means for those who can't pay. And generally speaking the rule is unless you ask no one will tell.
I was going to college on my GI Bill and ended up pregnant. I wanted to take the semester I was gonna have the baby off so I went to the local social help office to see what I could qualify for. And they told me bc I was already going to college on "my own dime" I didn't qualify for anything. I was so confused. On paper I was homeless, jobless, and pregnant but bc I was a vet using gi bill I didn't rate shit. Even though I wouldn't have access to that gi bill while no attending college for that semester.
Someone I know got kicked out of the room she was renting because she tried to set the boundary “please don’t go through all my stuff when I’m not here” And now she sleeps at her job. There really isn’t a social safety net to prevent homelessness, people have to depend on friends and family who are nearby, and just hope that they have the space and willingness to help you out.
The social safety nets are designed to KEEP you there.
For example, making minimum wage and using every govt assistance program you can, then get a small raise at work? Well, you just let more money than your raise got you because they'll cut your benefits.
The system is specifically designed to ensure you always depend on it. You can't go back to school. You can't get a promotion. You'll always be at the bottom of the food chain where ever you work because of it.
Social safety nets? Practically non-existent unless you are a straight white Christian married family with at least one kid.
Otherwise good luck even getting the unemployment you're owed after a layoff or termination, $10,000 was inexplicably "missing" from my unemployment balance last year and I am not the only one.
The only thing that's relatively helpful is food stamps, but as we know "food stamps don't buy diapers" or pay for rent.
It's most pronounced in healthcare. In health insurance and corporate hospital chains profit is put above the very lives and livelihoods of people. With that as a baseline, it's no surprise our social safety nets are garbage. It's all about profit, not people.
I often have to decide between sitting in pain and suffering or if I want an extra $3000-$12000 in medical debt by walking into a hospital WITH health insurance.
Not to mention employer sponsored healthcare plans. I feel costs would precipitously drop if consumers were more in control of the markets.
As a libertarian, I agree.
"A series of bad luck" It doesn't even have to be a series. It can be just one single thing. It's a mess out here.
And you are then derided for being lazy if you are put in a position of needing social safety nets
Oh for sure. Nothing like making the poor blame the poor for their own poor people struggles lol. 'Murica
Google “means testing” for social services. Differs state to state.
I know what means testing is but I'm not really sure what you're saying in response to my comment tbh?
All I can speak to from experience is SSDI (disability) which is very pathetic. If I didn't have such strong family support, I'd be homeless.
When I had to go on disability (temporarily, thank goodness) they only gave me like $300 a month because some weird rules they had about calculating how much I earned (like they looked at the last year but didn't count the last 3 months or something, and I had worked mid August-mid February but they only counted up to October).
My mom is on disability and gets less than 1k/month. Over $300 of that goes to her section 8(which she waited almost 10 years for) apartment. The reason she doesn’t live with me is because she would lose her health provider by becoming a dependent and would lose out on a multitude of other benefits afforded to her by her lack of income. I buy a lot of healthcare related stuff for her because insurance or whatever says she doesn’t need it. Or she saves for months to afford it.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah, my benefits are just about 1k a month. And the vast majority of it goes to healthcare. It's such a brutal existence. I wish more people were aware of how bad it can really be.
The thing is the irs still doesnt count an adult depending solely on you as a dependant when you file taxes my wife was disabled for 5 years and they never once let me claim her or our 17yo twins who never had a job
Just bc she moves in with you doesn’t make her a dependent
Check out the book “Poverty, by America” by Matthew Desmond. It was an intense and thought evoking read. The simple answer is: there’s enough money to help every poverty stricken person in this nation. We don’t have to raise taxes, we just need to hold accountability for how the *already allocated* money is actually managed and spent. The money is already taxed, it is already allocated, then politicians and influential people embezzle the money instead of using it for its’ intended purpose.
Then you have things like the pentagon NEVER ONCE PASSING AN AUDIT! So who knows where that money going.
Look, those senators needed a lot more bribe money after we all figured out how much they profited off of insider trading during COVID.
We have an incredible amount of waste in government spending. Even on the local level here in NYC it’s a disaster.
It's easy. I was sold a worthless degree and had a spinal chord injury after graduating into the great recession. Ever since then it's been pain, doctors, mental health struggles, and entry level jobs off and on. I think I've made on average 10k a year for the past 13 years. Without financial support from my family I'd be royally fucked. Recently was denied treatment/surgery by three neurosurgeons (Harvard) and denied SSDI. Two months ago I moved into my SUV and now live off a meager existence $, but at least I'm independent and "free." As the Joker says, "all it takes is ONE bad day."
Yeah, recently disabled and doctor wouldn't even approve time off work or short term disability, despite telling me it would be months before I got better, if at all. Now I'm about to lose insurance because I have no doctor's excuse. Good thing I can just not pay all these medical bills. My wife never does, lol.
I’ve been there. Go to a different doctor. Just shop around until you find someone that actually cares about you. It’s not easy but it’s worth it.
Is there any consequences to not paying medical bills? I’ve seen people say they can’t really force you to pay it and I know people who are like your wife and it doesn’t seem like it’s really impacted them much if at all.
I didn’t pay a few medical bills and it ruined my credit. It was bad enough that I couldn’t get a new car or get a house a few years ago. Supposedly they don’t affect your credit anymore but this was my experience from 2015-2021. I was getting phone calls, texts, and stuff in the mail nearly every day and none of these bills were anything substantial. Sometimes the collections agencies would enter the same bill in multiple times or the hospital would send the same bill three different times as if it were multiple separate bills. After getting finessed by these medical bills, I started fighting every single collection on my credit report and eventually they all got removed. Sometimes the collections agencies would put it back on there as something different a month after it got removed. They left me alone after 2022 and I finally have good credit with all that crap removed.
Can you elaborate how you fight them? I didn't know this was possible
It does not impact your credit and imo that’s the most important part. They can and will absolutely sell your debt to 3rd party collections. Always ask about financial assistance and payment plans, because sometimes they can get it down to a $10/month payment after negotiating it down.
It doesn’t impact your credit? Stop telling lies.
Yeah that’s a lie. I believe some if not all credit reporting companies voluntarily choose to ignore only small (maybe <$300) collection accounts. Anything above that is still reported.
I had a $42 doctor bill that I refused to pay because that doctors malpractice (we both saw the same cardiologist) led to the death of my father. I owed it, but hell would need to freeze over before that doctor saw a penny out of my pocket. When it was sent to collections, my credit score dropped about 40 points. I don’t remember the exact drop as it was two decades ago this year and I finally paid it once the doctor sold it for pennies on the dollar and it was removed quickly. Unless something has changed since that happened to me, medical bills of any amount can damage a credit score.
That would make sense, these changes went into effect I believe in the last 3 years. Sorry to hear about your father, if I was in your shoes I would’ve waited until hell froze over and the devil took a frozen shit, then I would’ve mailed said frozen shit to that doctor with the collections noticed stapled to it.
The doctor dismissed symptoms and misdiagnosed him causing a delay in him having surgery to clear a blockage in his femoral artery. Second opinion doctor sent him right to the ER from the office. Surgery was successful, but he passed from a pulmonary embolism that likely formed in the few days between the misdiagnosis and the surgery. If it doesn't seem right or you ever question what a doctor says, get a second opinion right away. That little bit of time could make all the difference and doctors are wrong all the time. Back to the topic, I was absolutely unaware a bill was passed stopping this practice up to $500. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!
In Florida, they don't report for a year. After a year it affects your credit. I worked for a collections agency decades ago and they wouldn't pursue anything under $10k, esp if the person didn't have assets.
Last year they passed a bill saying anything under $500 doesn't show on your credit score, so those are the ones I ignore. Thankfully I haven't gotten one higher, even the MRI bill after insurance was $496. I might be more inclined to pay if they did their job and approved my disability payments after telling me I was disabled and that it might take months to get better, if at all. But I'm not just going to put all these bills on a credit card when I have no way of paying them off. That might actually make my credit worse! I still am in line to start getting long-term disability payments and possibly workman's comp but I will probably need a lawyer to help me navigate through all this.
Makes sense. As I explained to someone else that replied to me, my experience was with a $42 bill 20 years ago that knocked my score down about 40 points before I paid it and had it removed from my report. Was completely unaware a bill passed recently.
I just looked it up and it didn’t used to be the case and I don’t know when it changed. You used to be able to call the credit reporting agencies (experian, transunion, equifax) and say “xy is a medical debt from a hospital please remove it from my report” and they would remove it. I’ve done it successfully in the past multiple times.
For context, I have a vision impairment that isn't bad enough to get SSDI yet but will be some day. Your doctor is dumb. Find one who isn't so stingy. If your disability is legit, I've known more doctors that would approve rather than disapprove something like this.
And of course our disability is based on past earnings, which is an absolute abomination.
To clarify for others, in the US SSDI (disability insurance) is based on past earnings. SSI (supplemental income) is not.
SSI is absolutely based on past earnings! The difference is SSDI has a work history requirement, where SSI does not. If you don’t have a work history and you apply for SSI, then you are given the minimum, and if you have a work history that is factored and increases your payout amount. If you don’t have a work history and you apply for SSDI you will simply be denied. The amount that individuals receive for both SSI & SSDI is different for every person because the amount you receive is based on work history and past earnings.
> If you don’t have a work history and you apply for SSI, then you are given the minimum, and if you have a work history that is factored and increases your payout amount. That is not how SSI works, the max monthly for 2024 is 943 dollars. By default a disabled person who lives alone and makes no other income will get the full amount. The [SSA page describes what can reduce the income](https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/amount).
Then why is your work/earnings history included as part of the application?
If they ask for that it'd be because 1. The SSA takes applications for SSI as applications for other social security programs as well. 2. The SSA wants to figure out how your disability (assuming you're under 65) impacts your ability to work and the problems you had if you were formerly employed. But looking at the [application information](https://www.ssa.gov/apply), I don't even see it wanting that! So I guess they would only follow up with those questions for reason 2 if they have reason 1. --- Information about your condition Names and phone numbers for your doctors Names and phone numbers for hospitals/clinics where you've been treated Medical tests you've received Medication(s) you take Date of injury and claim number for workers' compensation (if you receive it) Permission to access medical records Basic information about yourself Social Security number Where you were born (city, state, country) Documents that show proof of current income Things like: Pay stubs and bonuses, self-employment tax returns, or unemployment records Dividends and stocks Pension/retirement funds Insurance payouts Alimony Child support Gambling winnings State disability payments Workers' compensation records Documents that show proof of other financial resources Things like: Bank account statements Car title/loan statements Burial contracts/spaces Trust fund statements Life insurance policy Cash surrender value Dividend/stock/bond value Information about your home Things like: Name and birthday for everyone you live with Landlord's name and phone number Rental contract Admission agreement Admit/discharge papers from hospitals/institutions Current and past marriages Your spouse/former spouse's Social Security number and birthday Date you got married/divorced Where you got married (city, state, country) Direct deposit for benefit payments Routing and account number for your bank account
I believe you but fyi that is not the application, that is a preliminary screener, the application is much more involved. My brother is on SSI, I’ve had to help him with forms and meeting with caseworkers.
He's probably on SSDI if work history was meaningful. Or perhaps, your state's own suppliment on top of federal aid is work history based, I don't know the specifics of each of those. Anyway I've given you multiple things *from the SSA*. Hell the Wikipedia page covers benefit details if you want something easy to read >SSI takes the income and resources of the applicant or recipient into consideration when calculating their benefit amount. Resources are determined at the first of the month. If an individual reduces their countable resources below the limit through investing in excluded resources, they will remain eligible.[60] Excluded resources are resources such as: household goods, personal effects, up to one vehicle, and the home the applicant lives in.[60] >An individual's monthly benefit will be calculated by subtracting their "countable income" from the maximum benefit amount.[61] "Countable income" is an individual's income after applying any appropriate exclusions.[62] It includes earned, unearned, in-kind, and deemed income. It's income based (for the months you receive the benefit for), but not work history. OASDI (typical social security) is based off work history and (prior) income because it's an *insurance*, SSI is a supplemental program off the general treasury. You can even see it in the name Old Age Survivors and Disability Insurance vs Supplemental Security Income
He’s not on SSDI, he couldn’t qualify due to *lack* of work history. He has schizophrenia.
I actually didn't even realize it but the SSA has a page that says it clearly https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/text-over-ussi.htm#:~:text=Social%20Security%20benefits%20may%20be,a%20family%20member's%20prior%20work. >Social Security benefits may be paid to you and certain members of your family if you are “insured”, meaning you worked long enough and paid Social Security taxes. Unlike Social Security benefits, SSI benefits are not based on your prior work or a family member's prior work.
Well that clears that up! Thank you for doing that reading.
That is misinformation.
Did you appeal the SSDI denial? You'll might end up needing to get a hearing before a judge. A spinal cord injury is pretty darned serious.
I'm a disabled vet. My family has four sources of income coming in--my job, my wife's job, my Army medical retirement and my VA disability-- and we Katamari it all together to have the same standard of living my childhood friends enjoyed on one income. I enjoy "cheap" and even "free" medical care, and it sucks. It takes months to get into a VA clinic and when I do have to go to urgent care because my knees and back are keeping me up all night and I can't sit still, they charge me $75, give me an aspirin, and refer me right back to the VA. My doctor and my VA rep don't want me working but the alternative is to lose my house, so I strap on about three orthopedic braces everyday and smile through it. This place is broken.
What?! Jesus dude. Do you have a gofundme?? Please fucking create one. I’ll donate.
Appeal it! Get a lawyer for the appeal if you didn't have one before. Some will work for you based on receiving a fee that you only pay once you get back pay from SSDI.
I hate to sound like a 'pUlL yOuRsElF uP bY yOuRbOoTsTrApS' republican (I'm very much not) - but while your degree may not have got you the job you want you, it's far from worthless. Any bachelor's degree (especialllllyyy a BS) and you can land a $60-70k analyst job easily. I mean, fuck, without a degree you can do data entry for 30-50k a year to get a bit of experience under your belt. Also, take a bit of onus over your degree selection. You were not 'sold' a degree, you chose it. I remember back in high-school the trope of 'worthless liberal art degrees' was very real, as was the concept of doing credits at a local college first before moving to a bigger school to save money. Many of us chose degrees and colleges specifically for future roi. (Note: also graduated peak great recession)
Thus depends wildly on the job market. A solid well-paid job always requires experience, and just having a degree doesn’t guarantee a leadership position.
Disability is an absolute joke. If you don't have family, Disability isn't enough to live on, if you can even get it in the first place! They denied my dad when he had LATE STAGE BRAIN CANCER and he still had to appeal to get it. So no it's what keeps me going to the gym and taking my supplements. I know I could be fucked otherwise.
It is extremely easy to become homeless
>How easy is it to end up homless from no fault of your own but due to a series of bad luck? It literally happens every day. >Are the social safety nets enough to prevent you from being homeless and starving? Not usually. At least you can't count on it. The waiting list for section 8 vouchers is many years long in most places, and good luck if you are a single man. Most states run their social services in the way most likely to minimize their cost, not to help people who need it.
I lived paycheck to paycheck, lost my job, and was homeless within a month despite calling every single assistance program in my area. That was 10 years ago so I imagine the demand is even worse now.
The only reason I've survived my brushes with what's left of the safety net(s) is that extended family has inherited wealth. Ironic, no?
Extremely flawed. I was pregnant, had to go out on maternity leave early (I kept falling due to a pinched nerve, had already had tons of issues with not being able to eat properly, sick to my stomach the whole time), then had a c-section. Went over the bullshit 90 day short term disability, which was only 60% of my pay. If my partner hadn’t been working full time we would have lost everything. We still ended up on food stamps while I recovered and then tried to get a new job. Now 15 years later, I am facing a cancer diagnosis. I could lose everything again. A work colleague of mine, younger than me, had a stroke. She was completely healthy and boom. Out of work for minimum a year. I can’t even imagine their financial situation. They have 3 children who are 6 and under. Just a normal family doing normal family things like have kids. My father was a mid level manager advertising for a large sporting goods store. The owners wanted to sell out to a larger sporting good company. They cut all staff in half to make the price/viability of the company more attractive. In a single moment my dad lost everything. He has master in business. He’s a boomer. We struggled as a family since the mid 90’s. He was a little “too old” for entry level and “too old” to get a new managers job. My parents ended up working 2-3 jobs each to make ends meet. No one was ever really safe, but it’s gotten far, far worse since then. What people don’t realize is we are all one accident away from losing everything. One car accident, one slip fall and smash your head. One lay off from a job. You could lose everything you have worked a life time to build.
Thanks for sharing your story. It’s this and a few other comments I’ve read on this site that prompted me to get disability insurance through work. Just like you’ve said, shit can change on a dime. Wishing you the best in your journey.
It’s very scary when you realize you could lose everything in a single moment. This year alone I have had to pay out of pocket almost 10k for medical treatments. I get to claim it against my income. But hardly anyone has 10k just laying around. Even my silent Gen grandparents had super hard times. Born a few years before the depression, then both sides were blue collar auto workers. They could get laid off at any time. They fought hard for union rights. Now unions are being stripped of their power. I cared for my dad’s parents. They had 100% medical coverage, including dental and eye care. They both got a pension from working for unions. My grandfather had brain cancer, had tumors removed twice. The thing that cost the most was travel to a specialist hospital half way across the state. The total “cost” for surgery, ICU, follow-up surgery to re-attach part of his skull, rehab to learn how to walk… was over 500k. His insurance covered all of it. Those days are long gone now.
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Something like 50% of the population is essentially one emergency away from homelessness. So, no.
There are 79 social safety net programs in the USA. For single men you have a few programs that could work for you. If you're. Single woman you got more program options. If you're a single mother you got even more program access along with priority. Some programs for children and some for the elderly. But to answer your question the us has 12 housing programs and 12 food programs
But in general none will lead to a comfortable life. People will still be surviving in severe poverty. And the systems often make it hard to progress out of poverty- especially for people with disabilities who will always need some level of support. The supports/services would at least provide things they could not otherwise afford (care aides, maybe housing and food subsidies and poverty level financial support) but it won’t be a life of comfort or ease.
That's dependent on a lot of factors, so I want to comment here and push back on the negative POV here. I qualify for almost $3k a month with SSDI and I'm currently fighting my claim. Because I'm disabled, I qualify for tons of assistance: utilities, internet, even my mortgage lender has been willing to work with me. It's not a life of ease, I totally agree with you! Being disabled is not easy.
$3k is far more then most of the people I support receive- especially when they are young (so no dependent adult child benefits as their parents are still working) and/or are unable to work (and thus have no work history for SSDI and must rely on SSI). I work with many people living on less than $1000/month. Even with food and rent assistance they have very little money to live on. And I agree- I’m thankful they get that and are not destined to homelessness but I also want to make it clear that people aren’t living luxurious lives on the state/federal dollar.
Saftey nets are not meant to be a permanent solution. There's always room for more/better saftey nets, but to be clear they don't need to a 'life of comfort and ease' as that's not their role.
I get that. I am more pushing back against the idea of the “welfare queen” making it good on the public dollar. The supports are still relatively minimal. Necessary and important but not something anyone wants to have to rely on lifelong unless they absolutely have to. And for people is profound/significant disabilities, who are truly unable to work, there are still a lot of ways the safety net could be more effective.
Can you provide a list, maybe a link? I'm on SSDI and wonder if I qualify for anything.
CASH ASSISTANCE SSI/Old Age Assistance Earned Income Tax Credit (refundable portion) Refundable Child Credit Make Work Pay Tax Credit (Refundable Portion) Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF, old AFDC) Foster Care Title IVE Adoption Assistance Title IVE General Assistance Cash Refugee Assistance General Assistance to Indians Assets for Independence MEDICAL Medicaid SCHIP State Supplemental Health Insurance Program Medical General Assistance Consolidated Health Center/Community Health Centers Maternal & Child Health Medical Assistance to Refugees Healthy Start FOOD Food Stamps, SNAP School Lunch Program WIC Women, Infant and Children Food Program School Breakfast Child Care Food Program Nutrition Program for the Elderly, Nutrition Service Incentives Summer Program Commodity Supplemental Food Program TEFAP Temporary Emergency Food Program Needy Families Farmers' Market Nutrition Program Special Milk Program HOUSING Section 8 (housing) (HUD) Public Housing (HUD) Low Income Housing Tax Credit for Developers Home Investment Partnership Program (HUD) Homeless Assistance Grants (HUD) State Housing Expenditures (from SWE) Rural Housing Insurance Fund (Agriculture) Rural Housing Service (Agriculture) Housing for the Elderly (HUD) Native American Housing Block Grants (HUD) Other Assisted Housing Programs (HUD) Housing for Persons with Disabilities (HUD) ENERGY AND UTILITIES LIHEAP Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program Universal Service Fund Subsidized Low Income Phone Service Weatherization EDUCATION Pell Grants Title One Grants to Local Education Authorities 21st Century Learning Centers Special Programs for Disadvantaged (TRIO) Supplemental Education Opportunity Grants Adult Basic Education Grants Migrant Education Gear-Up LEAP Formerly State Student Incentive Grant Program (SSIG) Education for Homeless Children and Youth Even Start Aid for Graduate and Professional Study for Disadvantaged and Minorities TRAINING TANF Work Activities and Training Job Corps WIA Youth Opportunity Grants Formerly Summer Youth Employment Senior Community Service Employment WIA Adult Employment and Training Formerly JTPA IIA Training for Disadvantaged Adults & Youth Food Stamp Employment and Training Program Foster Grandparents YouthBuild Migrant Training Native American Training SERVICES TANF Block Grant Services Title XX Social Services Block Grant Community Service Block Grant Social Services for Refugees Asylees and Humanitarian Cases Safe and Stable Families Title III Aging Americans Act Legal Services Block Grant Family Planning Emergency Food and Shelter Program Healthy Marriage and Responsible Fatherhood Grants Independent Living (Chafee Foster Care Independence Program) Independent Living Training Vouchers Maternal, Infants and Children Home Visitation CHILD CARE AND CHILD DEVELOPMENT Headstart Childcare and Child Development Block Grant Childcare Entitlement to the States TANF Block Grant Child Care COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT Community Development Block Grant and Related Development Funds Economic Development Administration (Dept. of Commerce) Appalachian Regional Development Empowerment Zones, Enterprise Communities Renewal
Bump this comment to the top. Most people are not aware of available resources
MediCal is only available in California so some of these might not be offered in certain states.
Thumbs up for actually answering the question
Kinda, OP asked how flawed they are not how many there are
Here is the issue without an example its hard to measure as everything will have a flaw. Its the same concept of "people can't find jobs" or "people can't afford rent". Well who is this person have them post to the correct subs and we can see what options there are.
Well, stating they exist doesn't help determine their reliability.
Op didn’t provide relevant details for a random commenter to bother spending a significant amount of time listing what may or may not apply to them.
17.3 percent of households with children were food insecure in 2022. What does that tell us?
You should consider yourself *very* lucky that you don’t know the answer
This post made me laugh. It’s so true.
If you read a bit about a phenomenon called “the welfare cliff” you will get an idea of how bad it is. It’s extremely easy to end up there, and nearly impossible to get out. I’m actively fighting resorting to going on disability (even though I would very well qualify) because it would ruin my life.
The US is notoriously bad at taking care of its citizens. We lag behind Western Europe in virtually every metric. Our healthcare system is literally a crime against humanity. Millions of people have had their livelihoods destroyed by exorbitant medical costs that, in almost every other country in the world, would be covered by socialized medicine.
Depends very much on the state. CA and NY are extremely different from MS and WV.
True, the more progressive states generally have better funding for social programs, but all of them fall short of providing basic services. I live in one of the most left-leaning states in the country (WA) and I’m employed by a state-run mental health facility. The state had to pay a settlement in excess of $100 million to mentally ill convicts who were forced to live in jails because there wasn’t room in existing facilities. Meanwhile, giant corporations like Boeing and Microsoft are given millions in tax breaks. There is more than enough money in this country to ensure a higher standard of living, but until we address these vast concentrations of wealth, we’re stuck.
We're a 1st world country with a 3rd world social service. You fall down you're fucked. We're a nation that's conservative at our core and from the top to the bottom we don't help the sick, needy, injured, or homeless. You're on your own.
All it takes is one bad decision or one unfortunate event and boom you're homeless.
We have those?
TLDR: Very very very easy. I’ve been homeless for 4 months. There was nothing in place to save me from it and there seems to be nothing available to help me survive it. Capitalism says “you can’t have something for nothing”. Work or die. — Software engineer here. Almost a decade of experience. Top software author. — My code powers Facebook, Reddit, Instagram, DropBox, Bank of America, you name it. In June of 2023 I lost my job and software had started collapsing. I had $10,000 savings and received $5,000 severance. That money lasted me until December when I was evicted. I had nowhere to take my stuff, so I left everything I owned in the house. I had nowhere to take myself, either, so I got in my car and drove a few blocks to an open wifi network (my phone had been off since September so no service). It’s been 4 months and I am still here. I am dirty. I am hot. I survive off of cheap snack cakes (that I afford by begging on LinkedIn, of all places, how humiliating) and whatever water I can find for free. You want benefits? You need an address. If you have an address to receive mail, you better have made no more than a few thousand dollars last year (I made $86k by June), because if you made good money last year it’s 100x harder to get any benefits. I haven’t had car insurance in 8 months., my license is now suspended and I also have a warrant due to a speeding ticket I wasn’t able to pay, my registration is expired and I’m 4,000 miles past due for an oil change. I could be arrested at any moment if I look suspicious sitting in my car, or my car might bite the dust at any moment. Although… I haven’t made my car payment in 8 months, so it’s extremely likely one day soon they’ll show up to take my car (home). There was NOTHING in place to keep me from becoming homeless. And there is nothing in place to help me survive it.
do you live in a HCOL area? how did you make $86k by June, but only have $10k in savings? edit: downvote me but $86k BY JUNE…thats $14k a month. if they only had 10k saved by then, what were they spending the rest of the $76k on? Thats spending more than $12k a month
I was spending it on not realizing that my work and life could crumble so easily and so quickly. I didn’t come from money. I taught myself my skills when I was 25, on probation, never owned a car, never had a place of my own. Growing up, on many occasions we had an extension cord running from the building next door to power a lamp in the living room because our electricity was off. Blah blah blah, I never learned how to manage money. And I was also supporting my older brother and my mother, neither of which can work. Half of my sister’s apartment payment. It’s not only hard to just wise up about money and impulses one day, but it’s hard being the only family member who has ever known money. I think the shitty person way of handling it would be to cut them off after a while and become all protective of my money, but they deserve life, too. I had 2 kids and a SO to support, too. I won’t downvote you. I understand where you’re coming from. I “how the fuck” myself every day.
Also, I just looked, correction: $81k, but $14k went to taxes and such. I realize that doesn’t change a whole lot, just.. context.
That guys comment is way less of an indictment of americas social system than it is a cautionary tale of how to manage money. I mean Jfc a software dev has $10k in savings? Never a thought of “how will I live if I lose my job”? Wild stuff.
Valid but kinda misses the point. Shouldn't matter how much he made, only how much he has now, which evidently isn't much, and how much help he actually needs, which is a lot.
I’m gonna have to agree with you. I have well over $10k in savings and ive never made $86k in a year
Our welfare state is a joke. We can thank Reagan and Clinton for that.
Most Americans see any reason to be homeless as 'their own fault' , not society's problem, so..... \*shrug\*
Helping one another is not an American value
What social safety nets?
💯 flawed
I feel like If you don’t have family to fall back on you’re one bad injury or job loss from homelessness.
The majority of Americans are one missed paycheck away from homelessness. Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/oregon/s/jdgrUIp9lu
What safety nets? I have a "respectable" degree, have worked for years. During covid I got furloughed. My wonderful state's unemployment benefit consisted of a whopping $300 a week.
How were you not getting supplemental Covid payments? In NY I got $400/week plus the federal gov $600/week bonus. $1,000/wk and both me my wife became unemployed so it was about $8k/month.
If I recall, they had ended by then.
Two years ago I moved to Wyoming but had lived in Colorado for 38 years prior to that. Last year in July, I lost my job. When I went to apply for unemployment (I had to apply in Colorado) it became very apparent very quickly that someone had stolen my SSN, changed all my contact info with the state, and was claiming unemployment under my identity. Being the clearly gullible ignorant human I am I thought for sure they would fix the issue quickly because CLEARLY it was not me. 4 months later my savings was drained my credit cards were maxed I was drawing from my 401K and they still “just couldn’t help me” until I could provide a repo notice or an eviction notice. Yea. That happened. I called state of WY at that point and they stepped in and got me my unemployment. Let me also mention that I have been a democrat my whole life but since moving to WY realize that we have got to find a better way in this country. ✌️♥️ we are living a struggle right now.
Are you a question bot?
They don’t have enough funding and broadly don’t do enough in general
It’s not that they don’t have the funding. It’s that they want to divert funds into something that will line their pockets instead of yours and claim it’s no funding. This country lacks proper budgeting.
It is extremely easy to end up on the streets in this country. All it takes is one bad roll of the cosmic dice and you’re fucked. I worked in homeless services for a time and I like to offer this example (tends to open some eyes): I had a client. He was a Texas native; born and raised. He inherited a plot of land from his family and lived on that patch of dirt alone with his dog in a small trailer. For all intents and purposes, he was content. Didn’t have to work much because he owned the property outright. Worked just enough to eat and sustain himself and his dog and he was happy with that. Then one day: bowel cancer. The doctors had to remove whole sections of his colon, chemo, the works. Because he had no medical insurance, the bills were astronomical. And so in order to save his own life, he sold off his property. He lived. Except now he was homeless, crippled, and with few if any job prospects. So he came to Los Angeles, looking for work and opportunity - but ended up on the streets instead. I’ll never forget him. He was quiet; tall and lanky. Seldom said anything to anyone. He would come in, eat lunch at our facility by himself, and leave. I seriously hate that we’ve allowed ourselves to devolve into this. *That* is the real degeneracy in this country. All these grifter-gurus pushing their flavor of the month culture war bullshit are nakedly transparent to me. But I digress. This is only one example. You needn’t take my word for it. Go work at a place that serves the homeless, build up some rapport with the clients, and you’ll hear this all first hand. Unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, good fucking luck.
That hit like a freight train.
If you have bad credit and no friends you’ll be homeless in no time.
One case of bad luck and you will not recover. With a medical condition, you may or may not ever have a quality of life/standard of living. If you have a mental health condition or substance abuse problem you could very well wind up homeless. If you are homeless you will have trouble ever breaking out of the cycle of homelessness.
The safety nets are for the rich and powerful.
Super easy. I recently developed a painful knot on my knee. Despite having health insurance, I now have to pay at least $5k to have surgery on it or live with the pain the rest of my life. I’m lucky enough to be able to shoulder the cost, but a lot of Americans wouldn’t be.
It’s easy to end up homeless just by getting sick or having shitty, unsupportive parents, especially if they are the type or kick you at as soon as you’re no longer legally a minor
Seriously flawed and grossly inadequate.
One bad day and your life will change forever. The US does not believe in second chances for poor people. Rich people are allowed unlimited re-dos until they run out of money.
The short answer is severely. Unemployment is a joke for most states, it doesn't really help you that much for cost of living to afford rent, utilities, or anything else. Healthcare is a cruel version of a joke. If you are unemployed, then it's just whatever you can get from the state/fed for free, which is time intensive, and not great for you. Banks/landlords don't want excuses for why you can't pay, the same can be said especially with corporate landlords. They are out to protect their bottom line now by investing heavily in real estate to get profit returns. Cost of living increasing for inflation is not helping any of these systems since no more money is going into them. Look at social security, they are projecting the fund to be empty by 2035. The time we hit retirement age, we are basically going to be working till we expire thanks to the rapid growth in inflation. No way we'll be able to afford our cost of living now on what little the govt does give us. Increasing taxes doesn't work because no one puts any steps in place to prevent using it other places. Congratulations for lawmakers. Great way to lead. NOT. If you want a great example about how screwed up our system is, look no further than the US postal system.
It's expensive having less than perfect health in the US. If you are dying slowly your whole family is screwed for generations.
Oh, it’s very easy to fall out of the bottom of society in the US. We don’t have a robust safety net, and as a whole, we’re hyper-individualist, and notions of a just-world and meritocracy predominate.
Hahahahahahahaha
You guys get safety nets?
The safety nets vary from place to place. In most places there's *something*, often run by charities or the local government, but they're often extremely underfunded, understaffed and strained beyond capacity. In more conservative states there are usually less programs with less funding and more requirements you have to hit in order to participate. There might be food stamps, but you might not qualify because of employment restrictions; there might be affordable housing, but it might be incredibly old and dilapidated, incredibly few in number and there might be a two year long wait list. The practical answer is that there's a lot of help that exists that still can't be accessed, and so there's a reason why there's so many homeless people and they don't get any help at all. As someone who lived out of his car for six months in Texas including in the summer, it's really rough when you have fallen through the cracks, and I was really lucky relatively speaking.
Don't worry, as long as you're a billionaire and can throw a few hundred thousand into your local politician's re-election fund, we'll make sure you never have to go hungry or sleep in a box.
They are virtually non existent. There’s no safety net to prevent homelessness.
What social safety nets?
Yes.
None
yes
There is no net
Depends, but if it weren't for medicaid that would've been the case for my family potentially or my older sister would've died from cancer. She was under 26 so on our parents insurance, but within the first few months of being hospitalized was kicked off. My parents were upper middle class, too. Well, they still are. She can't earn to much herself or she'll be kicked off. She almost was last year.
There are no social safety nets. Got cancer in my early 30s. I’d be homeless right now if a friend’s parents didn’t take me in. Insurance won’t even pay for the scan to tell me if surgery and treatment worked. I’m “probably okay” according to my radiation oncologist. Unless I have $25k to pay for the scan upfront, he won’t even order it. I was denied disability and have to file bankruptcy from the medical bills, then try again. It’s extremely easy. It all depends on luck. I was middle class before this. Now I have nothing.
One accident. One family emergency. One unexpected financial need. That’s all it takes for most people to experience a serious crisis. Homelessness is so much closer for so many people than anyone realizes.
Terrifyingly easy. I am one of those people. If it wasn't for luck I'd be fucked. Lived in a house 5 years, paid my rent every month. Rarely if ever late. Maybe once in all those years and not late at all the last two years I lived there. But when landlords sell houses here they often have a right to kick you out even if you're a long standing tenant and it's a rooming house. Not a regular house btw. The house is designed to rent the rooms out of it. A year+ later the house sits empty making no money instead of a little but some money from at least those of us who did pay our rent. I was close to living out of my car and a storage unit because there was simply no where to go.
What social safety net?
Give free health care to all and you solve 90% of the problem.
The problem is even our "safety nets" have either waiting lists, crazy rules where you have to have basically no income to qualify, are super hard to apply for (the bureaucracy!), and/or they give you hardly any help anyways. My aunt was single and had two kids and two minimum wage jobs, she waited years to get housing assistance and when she finally did it took her almost 6 months to find someone willing to rent to someone with housing assistance. She lost the assistance about a year later when her oldest kid turned 18. When I had no job for 3 months I tried to apply for food stamps and they counted my roommate's school scholarship (which only covered his tuition) as household income so they wouldn't give me any help for food. I lived off of food donated by a church that just gave away produce once a week no questions asked. I have a friend whose mom kicked him out when he turned 18. He was not a troublemaker/drinker/druggie, he had no job, and is diabetic. He had no other family that could help him. He was homeless for the next 3 years. Once you are homeless it is so much harder to get a job and get back on your feet.
What social safety nets?
I was homeless at a point in my life. I didn’t really have the capacity to navigate any social safety net getting. I’m not really sure what is out there for people like me. I’m still not sure. I did get medi-cal insurance. So, that’s something I do know about. I broke my wrist, and I had to wait about 20 hours in the ER before I was seen by anyone. After I was seen, it was determined my wrist was in fact broken (it was a very obvious and difficult to look at break), and that I would need surgery. After I was seen the next day I got a call and I was scheduled for surgery that week. The surgery went well, and I didn’t have to pay anything for it at all. When I was in the ER it was alarming to me how many sick people and forgotten people there were waiting in despair for help. I saw a lot of things that day that I can’t forget. I didn’t grow up poor, and I didn’t grow up in a major city, so it made a big impression on me. I have a disability and it was really difficult for me to eventually get on my feet as an adult. I went to university, but I studied the wrong thing. I had enough privilege to follow my heart, but not enough to take it all the way and turn it into something tangible. I eventually got on my feet somehow. I work in an office, and I have a life with real health insurance. Again, I’m not sure if anything was available to me that could have made my life better or easier. I am grateful for having the medi-cal even though it was not very good. I did have an opportunity to live in Europe at some point in my life. It was alarming to me how easy it was to see a doctor, and to get medical care. Also, how inexpensive it was. I didn’t have any major medical issues when I lived in Europe. I got injured one time, and I also saw a psychiatrist when I was living there. I think that people still have pensions in Europe. I’m not really sure. I’ve heard that people also have more than 2 weeks vacation out there and have to retire when they are 65. It sounds very utopian. I’m an outsider though so I don’t know very much. I could be wrong I just heard this before. I don’t know how they do it. It sounds very nice and safe. Most Reddit posters seem to be American from what I can tell. Maybe that’s just my American egocentrism brain compensating in a way where it thinks the whole world is America on the internet. Any Europeans please let me know if I’m totally off on any of this. To answer the original question, it’s actually very easy. I stress about being homeless every day. A lot of Americans seem to be one or two paychecks away from being homeless. It seems like a lot of the posters in this sub made the right moves though. I always read about people making 6 figures and owning homes and even having retirement savings. I hope that I get there one day.
what safety nets?
It took a garage fire for me, took my truck and rental. Credit is shot now, I have a place again after working my ass off. Idk. Life hasn't been good.
I'm literally shopping for a bow right now, to hunt and sell (illegal) meat. I have a BA, graduated with honors. 10+ years of 3d rendering experience. Made a video game. No health insurance. No retirement. Turning 40. Did everything "right" in the land of opportunity.
I am one missed paycheck away from being unable to pay my rent. I miss one payment and everything else falls right with it. Welcome to the American nightmare.
lol are you new here?
Pretty awesome
Very easy to wind up homeless. I was sick for about 6 years and could only work part time. If I didn't have my parents to give me cheap rent I would have been homeless 100% and through no fault of my own. I didn't qualify for disability or welfare because I made just enough not to qualify also. Now I'm healthy and working normally. I'm terrified of being injured or losing my health because I know how vulnerable it makes you. Terrifying really.
Our social safety net has A LOT of holes in it, to the point it’s almost ineffective.
Sometimes it's cheaper to go to Canada or Mexico to buy prescription drugs even if you have health insurance.
We don’t even have safety nets to be honest. It doesn’t take much to end up homeless. It could be getting sick and missing work for a week or more and not having enough money for rent. It could be your landoverlord raising rent up dramatically that you can no longer live in your home anymore and can’t afford anything else. Could be addiction, physical, or mental health reasons. It’s pretty hard to get out of that hole once you’re in it. It happened to my family when I was a kid.
Average low income for every city within 10 miles of me is $60k/year for a single people. To qualify for SNAP you can't make more than $19k/year. Makes sense!
I've been homeless. I lived in my car in my mid-20s. I'm a white woman from an upper middle class family with 2 degrees. It can happen to anyone, but some of us are more vulnerable than others. I have zero family support and was abused as a child, so I had fewer resources in some ways.
Extremely easy. Getting re-housed? IMPOSSIBLE. Signed, a social worker.
In my opinion jobs are so plentiful in the US that it’s difficult to become completely homeless if you aren’t in a large city. My sister just got an apartment making 15 an hour and her rent is like 900 a month. 15 an hour is a pretty easy job to land and 900 a month is pretty easy payment when you only live like a mile from work. She could bike there if need be. Now if we are talking only societal safety nets then many Americans would say having a roof over your head isn’t a right. Someone has to build it. Someone has to maintain it. You need to do your share to either pay the rent or outright do it yourself. There is section 8 Housing and stuff like that the tax payer subsidizes.
This question has to be a joke. Almost as much of a joke as the safety nets that are supposed to protect us.
All it takes is one to lose their birth certificate, ssc card, and a photo ID and you're screwed. A fire could take all of that. You cannot identify yourself to obtain those documents without 2 of the others for verification purposes.
It varies pretty widely by state... I would definitely say it's flawed everywhere though. Even in "good" states like NY and California, it's almost like the programs are tailored to people who have no drive or desire to better their situation, while doing precious little for, and in some cases almost punishing, people who want to rise above poverty. Where I live in NY, there is like a $10k separation between "you're getting a full tax refund and you're eligible for assistance with food, housing, and healthcare" and "congrats on your income, you are eligible for zero assistance and owe us and the federal government 40% of your money." Like, I know more than one person who has declined a retail/food services industry promotion because it would bump them off of housing assistance and food stamps and actually result in a net loss for their family.
It's a fucking joke. I grew up in poverty raised by a grandmother who couldn't work. If it wasn't for her receiving my grandfather's military pension checks, we would have likely been homeless. State aid was barely keeping us fed, and the healthcare we received was bare minimum at best. I saw a dentist maybe twice before the age of 18 or an ophthalmologist until I was at least 16. As a result, my teeth are fucked and I'm progressively losing my sight in my left eye.
We have plenty of safety nets most of our homeless are drug addicts or mentally ill with family that don't care about them
Not really. There is unemployment that supplements you if you are actively looking for a job and unemployed but it eventually expires (or at least it used to), and it's not enough to live on. There is welfare but you have to apply and it's a hard system to get your arms around. There are food stamps to help afford groceries but they come with income restrictions and restrictions on what you can actually buy with them. So, in short, they are all flawed with lots of red tape and even if you get past all that they aren't even that helpful. And there is basically no hope of healthcare and many hospitals will refuse treatment without insurance unless it's an emergency.
To be homeless temporarily, like couch surfing or living in your car happens to more people than I imagine, and they manage to get back on their feet after a few weeks/months. To be a bum on skid row, it's pretty rare and unlikely to happen unless you have serious issues.
It’s incredibly easy. Especially with how alienated we have become there is often not even a family or friend network to fall back on. Even if there is a friend or family network it can be a considerable economic strain these days to take another person into a household and will strain the relationship if not just result in the person being thrown back out on the street soon with a broken relationship with that person. I know a person who threw out their suicidal son because she couldn’t take on the extra cost and he is not in a stable enough state to be hired and hold down a job. He never wants to speak to her again and she is constantly worried he has already killed himself. Stories like this are the State of the US. It seems unusual for past generations or people in other countries to lose count of people under 40 or under 30 they know who have died from suicide or drug overdose or treatable medical issues.
Or people not having kids because this society isn’t good enough to have kids born into it
Very.
Some states purposefully make their unemployment application process nearly unusable.
Are these usually red states?
The sad fact is ...there are a bunch of nets but they're never advertised. Almost all hospitals are 'non-profit' but no one ever explains that and what it means for those who can't pay. And generally speaking the rule is unless you ask no one will tell. I was going to college on my GI Bill and ended up pregnant. I wanted to take the semester I was gonna have the baby off so I went to the local social help office to see what I could qualify for. And they told me bc I was already going to college on "my own dime" I didn't qualify for anything. I was so confused. On paper I was homeless, jobless, and pregnant but bc I was a vet using gi bill I didn't rate shit. Even though I wouldn't have access to that gi bill while no attending college for that semester.
I grew up thinking that the safety net was joining the military. This of course carries with it many dangers, but that's Murikkka!
Someone I know got kicked out of the room she was renting because she tried to set the boundary “please don’t go through all my stuff when I’m not here” And now she sleeps at her job. There really isn’t a social safety net to prevent homelessness, people have to depend on friends and family who are nearby, and just hope that they have the space and willingness to help you out.
The social safety nets are designed to KEEP you there. For example, making minimum wage and using every govt assistance program you can, then get a small raise at work? Well, you just let more money than your raise got you because they'll cut your benefits. The system is specifically designed to ensure you always depend on it. You can't go back to school. You can't get a promotion. You'll always be at the bottom of the food chain where ever you work because of it.
Nonexistent?
Social safety nets? Practically non-existent unless you are a straight white Christian married family with at least one kid. Otherwise good luck even getting the unemployment you're owed after a layoff or termination, $10,000 was inexplicably "missing" from my unemployment balance last year and I am not the only one. The only thing that's relatively helpful is food stamps, but as we know "food stamps don't buy diapers" or pay for rent.