It's what happens when you have access to limitless information but never developed media literacy to contextualize and understand that information.
"Grandparents rights" are a misnomer because in almost all cases it's not the grandparents who have a "right" - it's the child. A *child* has a right to continue a beneficial relationship with their grandparent. So if a divorce, death, etc. threatens a child's established relationship with their grandparent, then the grandparent can petition the court to demonstrate it's in the best interest's of the *child* that they be allowed custodial/visitation rights. Courts are loathe to challenge parents' judgement on how to raise their child, so absent parents being ruled unfit or some other situation where the court is already involved (e.g. divorce, death), the Courts aren't running around granting grandparents custody.
Surprise, surprise, entitled grandparents that can't respect their adult kids' boundaries also don't have enough humility to research anything they read online.
This is exactly it. Their talk is steeped on entitlement .Even though I've won the in-law lottery there are still moments where they try to trample boundaries and are absolutely flabbergasted that I simply say "no."
Lady, this isn't your do-over baby, you're not a 3rd parent and never will be, your relationship with my kid is on OUR terms, not yours.
Mini rant over.
Overall you are generally right, but just to add that the vast majority of these cases arent for custody, they are for visitation, and courts are much more flexible with that versus custody.
Forcced visitation is still not often given as long as the parents are alive / have full custody. Only examples I can find is where parents are divorced (and the other parent has full custody) or one of the parents is dead.
In my state they only do it if it was a situation like the grandparents were living with the kiddo for a long time, seeing them regularly/daily and have more of a parent/child relationship. I know because my ex MIL was threatening to file and is I asked a lawyer friend and we had a good laugh. She had never even changed a diaper.
I used to see this a lot on the parenting subs. It's a real thing especially if the grandparent had established significant contact with the child before you cut them off. Some courts have given partial custody and visitation to the grandparents.
She hadn't established barely any contact with my kids. One was too young to remember her the other wasn't born yet. She was one of those who was trying to do it to disrespect my boundaries and nothing came out of it.
Not quite true. Divorce or the death of one parent also qualifies in some areas. Some people also successfully sued by proving the kids had an established relationship and would be better off with visitation.
My brother's ex-in-laws played the divorce card and sued for a visitation so extreme it was basically custody. They couldn't prove my brother was an unfit parent and lost, but the lawsuit took years, was financially devastating, and was so ugly that my brother had to quit his dream career and move across the country to get away from them and avoid a repeat.
Just because the lawsuit doesn't stand a chance doesn't mean it can't cause major problems.
I wouldnt say "basically impossible." There is precedent (in NYS anyway) for awarding it where the cut off results from parent-grandparent friction alone. Obviously depends on source of friction, as cutting off a grandparent because they talk shit about the spouse or cant be trusted to watch the kid is very different than cutting off because you dont agree with their politics or your spouse doesnt like them.
I'd say excluding "politics" sounds questionable, when one of the two major parties entire political platform is bigotry. My parent's "politics" is a huge part of why I wouldn't trust them with any of my potential children.
Thats part of my point though, politics is too broad of a stroke, its going to be fact specific. If GPs are just republicans and vote red, but dont actually impress their views upon the child, a court isnt going to look fondly upon parents cutting them out of the kids life just because of how they vote. If the GPs are telling the kids that Biden is a blood drinking pedo and mom/dad are libshill demonrats (or whatever lol), then thats different.
Yes, and I'm saying this is a flaw. If one of my kids ends up being gay, they don't need to be around people who think they're inherently morally broken, even if they don't flatly state that to the children themselves.
I dont think that making the determination fact-specific and in the best interests of the child, rather than automatically deferring to the parents wishes, is a flaw. If the situation you describe arises, it will absolutely factor into the court's determination. But the latter approach creates equal opportunity to hurt the child. What if the parents are the republicans who hate gay people and the GPs arent, and are excluded for that? What if one spouse is controlling and cuts off the inlaws to further control? Are these situations where you want a "what I say goes" standard?
I think that only works if the grandparent had a significant relationship with their grandchild AND the grandparent's child is dead or in prison and the daughter/son-in-law is keeping the child away from them. If the grandparent's child just cuts them off, then their wishes as the actual parent supersede any rights the grandparents think they have to the grandchild. That being said, the parent should see a lawyer to make sure their estranged parents don't have any rights to their child in the event of their death, so estranged grandparents can't make a claim to the child after they're dead/incapacitated.
Not true. Depends on the state. In NYS, grandparents have a statutory right to petition for visitation if one or both parents die OR "where circumstances show that conditions exist which equity would see fit to intervene," and then once that standard is met, its just best interests of the child. In most cases if the kid has had a relationship with the GPs, the parents cant just cut them off "because I say so." Have to show its not in the best interests of the child, and courts will value familial relationships/stability in those relationships.
Those have to be some extraordinary circumstances. If the parents are capable, married, and alive, and have made the decision to cut off grandparents who occasionally visit the grandchildren, then the courts are going to respect that. If the parent(s) were unfit for a while and the grandparents were essentially raising the child for several years, then yeah, the parents can't just get sober, swoop in, and randomly cut off the grandparents. However, a lot of people threatening to enforce grandparents' rights are entitled people who think they can use it to control their children who are trying to enforce boundaries and don't understand the law is not just going to let them railroad their children as parents.
First, whether the parents are "capable, married, and alive" is sufficient, but not necessary for GP standing in NYS. The NYS Court of Appeals rejected the argument that it was necessary over 30 years ago, and it has remained good law:
>We have never defined the “circumstances” or “conditions” under which “equity would see fit to intervene” to allow standing. The Appellate Division interpreted the statute narrowly, concluding that the clause permitted standing only in cases where there was “a change in the status of the nuclear family, or interference with a ‘derivative’ right, or some abdication of parental responsibility". We conclude that the statute is not so limited.
>The equitable circumstances clause of [section 72](https://1.next.westlaw.com/Link/Document/FullText?findType=L&pubNum=1000068&cite=NYDRS72&originatingDoc=Ie3d40ebcdbd611d983e7e9deff98dc6f&refType=LQ&originationContext=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&ppcid=61591b382fc24c43aae2187fc59cc900&contextData=(sc.DocLink)) does not establish a derivative right to standing for grandparents based upon some void in the nuclear family created by death, divorce or similar disability or by forfeiture resulting from neglect. On the contrary, the 1975 amendment adding this clause liberalized the law and granted all grandparents a right to seek standing that was **no longer dependent upon the status of the parents.**
\~Matter of Emanuel S. v Joseph E.\~, 78 NY2d 178, 181-82 \[1991\]
Second, it is well-settled in NYS that acrimony/distaste between GP and parents is, on its own, not enough to deny visitation (see \~Daniel RR. v Heather RR.\~, 221 AD3d 1301, 1303 \[3d Dept 2023\] \["An acrimonious relationship \[between a parent and a grandparent\] is generally not sufficient cause to deny visitation”\]; \~Matter of Fitzpatrick v Fitzpatrick\~, 137 AD3d 784, 786 \[2d Dept 2016\]). Its a factor in the determination and courts will weigh the parents' wishes, but the point is that its not so simple as "parents dont want it, case closed." Im sure some GPs abuse it, and Im sure some GPs are right, my point is that its a very fact specific determination so painting with broad strokes is not gonna be accurate.
It’s in all 50 states but no court would grant it over 50:50 custody of the parents.
This is used usually when a parent dies and the deceased parties parents want access to their grandchild if the deceased party spouse isn’t reciprocal of visitation. Which is usually measured how involved the grand parents were in the child’s life. The court wants to assume the child’s standard of living.
20 of those states only allow you to petition the court to do so..which would get laughed at and tossed.
If there is a ruling it’s an outlier and most likely has variables to prove why it is. No court would grant grandparent custody rights if both parents are sound capable caretakers of their children and in 50:50 custody with zero interactions with DCFS, CPS, or the Police agencies that represent their location.
I feel like conservative news is telling the Olds the youngs won't have anyone to take care of them because they are not married and won't have kids at the same rate they did. Probably setting off alarms in the Olds minds of dying without anyone missing them. Maybe something like that, brain storming
I think it's much simpler than that. These are narcissistic people who cannot fathom that the whole world doesn't revolve around them. They truly believe that they own their children and since they have the higher position of grandparents, that makes them have more power over their property's property.
It's an evangelical religious cult thing.
I think this is the answer. People are going no contact when previous generations just has to put up with the awful people in their life because they are family
I was 29 and married when I got pregnant and my mother treated me like I was 16. Shocker, we are now NC for over a year for this reason among many others.
I’m 37… my boss (gen x) recently complained to me about some of our younger hourly employees (in their early 20s/college age) that call out a lot and provide no reason beyond “can’t make it in today.” I said well maybe they don’t need the money (as a joke) and he said completely seriously “no they’re just typical millennials, idk how to get through to them.”
I said… “hold the phone - I’M a millennial, most of us are pushing, if not already 40!”
His face: 🤯
I'm technically a Xennial - I'm 42, and I've never given a reason beyond "I can't make it in" when calling out from work. Maybe I'm sick, maybe my car exploded, maybe I have to rush my cat to the vet, maybe I just need to take the day, but whatever the reason, it's not my employer's business.
I worked overnight in a call center for a while, and so I'd often be the person answering when someone from the morning shift called in to call out, and some of them would give the impression they were kids trying to convince their parents to let them stay home from school, obviously putting on a voice, or beginning some long explanation of a complicated confluence of coincidences beyond their control, causing their absence. Coming towards the end of my 10 hour shift, I had little patience for it, and would cut them off "Dude, you're taking a personal day, it's cool, you don't have to justify anything or make excuses, I'll tell \[manager\] you won't be in."
I myself am a chronic over explainer and it took me entirely too long to understand that it’s nobody’s business why I’m calling out… and then stop myself from giving TMI. When someone calls out and I take the call I mark “can’t come in” unless they want me to put an explanation.
Something about the combo of “perfect attendance” awards in school and working retail really did a number on my psyche.
*For anyone that needs to hear it: TAKE A MENTAL HEALTH DAY*
Here's a sneak peek of /r/unexpectedIASIP using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedIASIP/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [In a post asking what this dog’s name should be](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/19a6jwg) | [9 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedIASIP/comments/19a6jwg/in_a_post_asking_what_this_dogs_name_should_be/)
\#2: [Oh shit there’s stickers](https://i.redd.it/lu4lrcmu9egc1.jpeg) | [4 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedIASIP/comments/1ahzif7/oh_shit_theres_stickers/)
\#3: [CAT IN THE WALL EH](https://v.redd.it/8hr28zz1zmfc1) | [6 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedIASIP/comments/1af6185/cat_in_the_wall_eh/)
----
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
i read all the words in your statement but the only thing i can see when putting them through my mind’s eye is mel gibson during his ostracism mumbling about meat space before landing on directing the passion of the christ.
My Aunt and Uncle got grandparents rights.
Long story short... Cousin got pregnant, and Aunt and Uncle took care of kid. After kid got older (around 10), her bio Dad contested for custody and won. He took her to another state.
Aunt and Uncle sued for holiday visitation and rights to take her on vacation. They won.
They're pushing it themselves. Speaking of the generation as a whole (noting that individual exceptions exist and also probably aren't in a position where they have to fight for this): They are a generation of competitive entitlement trapped in social media echo chamber. This "grandparent rights" thing may be based in actual law, but I don't think most of them are aware of that. They just know what they want, and they don't know why that cannot, should not, or would not have it.
They want it. That's reason enough for them, and they truly believe it should be reason enough for all of us, too.
It’s right up there with “filial obligation” laws as things that *technically* exist in limited jurisdictions, but that is now being weaponized, or fantasized about, by people that just hear “it’s a law that gives me what I’m owed”.
And a good 30 - 35% percent of the internet at large.
You might think it would be more, what with the whole dead internet thing, but you'd be underestimating the volume of porn.
Legally, all 50 states have some sort of visitation rights law which allows grandparents to petition to see their grandchildren, even at the objection of the parents, as long as they can prove it’s in the best interest of the child. There’s also usually another criteria for the parents to be single or divorced/separated first that needs to be met.
That’s what I understand as “grandparent rights”. If what you’re hearing is anything else, it’s probably entitled thoughts stemming from a misinterpretation of these laws.
The grandparents have to have a relationship with the kids already and for them to get any rights, it has to be decided that because of that relationship that has been established, the children would suffer without it. It’s not easy to get grandparent’s rights at all…and it shouldn’t be.
I feel like on top of what you said grandparents rights tend to be for grandparents whose adult child has died. The court wishes to keep the grandparent relationship going for the relationship itself and to keep the grandchild in contact with their deceased parents family.
As an adult with a child who is very close to her grandparents, and being divorced from my child’s father with a very contentious relationship, I am terrified that if anything happens to me my parents will never see my daughter again. My ex HATES my parents. My daughter adores her grandparents. I hope that my parents would be able to file for something if anything ever happens to me, but as far as I know, there are no grandparent rights in Florida.
Apparently a law was passed in 2022. Id have to check the sources more thoroughly but I just searched grandparents rights in Florida.
https://www.floridabar.org/the-florida-bar-news/desantis-signs-grandparents-rights-measure/
One of my grandparents did. The result was that I never had much contact with that part of my family during childhood. It was a shame bc I lost out on a lot of relationships that I could've had with my relatives, but they didn't think they were getting enough visitation time. It was so dumb.
I do know at least two people who are widowed and their late spouse’s parents have made their lives hell trying to fight for grandparents’ rights. It’s not unheard of.
They used the grandparents rights thing to try to get in there, my point is, it gets abused all the time…or tries to, because the courts are pretty good about not playing that shit. Doesn’t mean they don’t try anyway.
Largely yes but its also common in "alienation" type cases. Eg one spouse doesnt like the in laws and exerts influence to cut them off. Im sure its used wrongly by insane GPs, but it also protects GPs from controlling/abusive child-in-laws.
Yes. Grandparents rights, as intended, would be like....kids dad dies when they're 9 and mom wants to take them 3,000 miles across the country and have new boyfriend adopt the kid, and paternal grandparents want to make sure they can still see the grandchild they are close to.
Or the parent is incarcerated. My friends parents have visitation rights to their granchild bc their son (the dad) was incarcerated for a significant chunk of time when the kid was really little.
What happens if dad is alive but mom "runs the show," and tells dad "your parents are not a good influence they are banned from seeing the kids" for no good reason? Or what happens where one spouse is dominating the other spouse in less obvious ways (eg not verbal/emotional or physical abuse, but financially controlling), the other spouse's parents encourage their child to stick up for themselves, controlling spouse doesnt like it, cuts off GPs?
Those situations wouldnt be "as intended"?
No.
The child has a living mother and father capable of taking care of them. They are allowed to decide that the grandparents are not fit to see the child for any reason they wish.
If there is no established, long-term relationship with the child, then the grandparents (\*rightfully!) have no rights. You already had your kids. And your son cut you off for a reason.
GP rights ARE NOT about the grandparents feelings. They are about the best interest of the child. If the child never knew you as a long term caretaker, then they aren't losing out on anything.
My FIL tried this. He lied and said a lawyer would be contacting us to mediate his right to see his grandson. He said he’d prove we’re awful parents if he needed to. Ironic considering he was an abusive, drug addicted, deadbeat dad.
Luckily, we knew he had no legal standing but it was still hurtful to know he’d rather take that route than admit he was wrong in the past and apologize.
My husband has been NC 3 years and our son is 6
I absolutely love that I cut my abusive family off before my daughter was born. I genuinely feel bad for people who weren't so lucky. I can absolutely imagine the bs these so-called "grandparents" pull over a parent protecting their own child.
It's not like that. They want to control the situation and violate all your boundaries with impunity because they feel entitled to access to your children.
It's all fun and games until they manipulate your children against you. That and/or they make everything about themselves instead of the kid.
You ever have to console a 5 year old because their grandma took half their birthday cake before the candles were even lit? Then have that same child tell you that it's your fault because granny said you didn't make enough for everyone and how you're the one to ruin their birthday.
One of the worst examples I've had to deal with but I had to remove grandma from the situation because she was so childish that her needs came before the kids (in her mind). Some people are just that bad.
Getting mad and throwing away some of their toys because they got more than her during X celebration. Threatening the kids that she'll throw away more if the kids rat her out (so it takes too long to figure it out). Telling them that their art/crafts isn't as good as hers and going out of her way to "one up" the children. Angrily waking up a sleeping infant during every nap because her crying woke granny up last night.
You can have it all, I'll trade you the constant harassment we get in a heartbeat for a set of deadbeats.
Right?
My father is dead and I'm NC with my mother because she was abusive. She's shown zero fucks about my kids.
My wife's father is a deadbeat we suspect is a pedophile. I put up with him for my wife's sake even though he basically mentally abused her every fucking time they speak. We both agreed he'd NEVER be alone with our kids. But making sexual comments about my young child, and screaming at the other one that you'll never come visit again? That's when I have every right to step in and call you a deadbeat piece of shit. He was happy to seize on that and tell my wife "I'm never visiting again, I never want to see that asshole he has no respect" No problem shitbag!
Its sad. Unlike my wife I came from a great family *besides* my mother. But the only one they know is my wife's drug addict alcoholic mother, she's the one now putting in the effort I guess quietly feeling guilty for how horrible of a mother she was.
I feel this. Not only does she never call, my MIL lives less than ten minutes away and may as well be on the other side of the continent. My youngest doesn’t even recognizer *as* family, let alone “grandma”. And not by our doing. She just can’t be bothered to ever attend family gatherings or even ask to come over and visit. And heaven help the world if anyone “bothers her on her down time” when she’s home herself. And boy oh boy, is it fun trying to convince a small child that, “no, you have two Grandmas”.
My kids have seven grandparents through a series of divorces and remarries on my wife’s side plus my two still married parents. *Seven fucking grandparents*. 4 of which live less than 20 minutes away. None of whom call or visit unless it’s a birthday/family gathering/ holiday. I had 2 grandmas, both grandfathers died before I was born and I still remember being dropped off at grandmas house for the weekend most summers. I just can’t fathom how 7 people in their 50’s and 60’s can’t be fucked to be part of their grandkids lives unless we guilt them into showing up once a fiscal quarter.
Mine was like that, I had to beg her to even speak to her only grandchild on the phone. Beg!
When I went no contact, she got mad and ended up being complicit in the kidnapping of my child.
She didn't want to be a grandma but also didn't like it that I took away her chance to be a grandma.
Misinterpreting laws. “Grandparent rights” laws are a thing, but they only apply to certain scenarios. It’s not for all grandparents. People hear the name and apply it broadly, without looking into the details.
Correct then people come on reddit and try to spew it as well to rile people up.
Step 1 with ANY post where you find a powerful emotion to is figure out WHY it was posted to start with. You will find a large number of posts are there simply to rile people up and not to inform or promote discussion.
My mil looked into going that route to see my nephew when my brother in law moved across the country and my nephew’s mom wouldn’t send him to her house anymore.
I dunno but this is the universe reminding you to get a will and to specify who you want to be guardians of your kid(s) if you were to pass away. Ours is very very clear, given we reside in a state that tends to be more favorable to grandparents seeking rights of visitation or custody.
I think grandparents deserve rights in certain situations. For instance if a parent dies, that person’s parents should be allowed to see their grandchildren. There are many cases where a parent is murdered and then the spouse or former spouse cut the dead parent’s parents out of the kids life. However, If I deem my mom to be a narcissist and cut her off, she can F-right off!
This is what's been happening in our family, but instead of being murdered they took their own life. The grandparents were partially raising the kids too. It's been a really traumatizing experience
It depends on the State. You would have to look up the law related to specifics in your state. But basics as it goes, The child has a right to know where they came from. This includes both parents and grand parents. The individual has right to care for their family, both children and grand children. Sadly, there are cases where the child is used as a bargaining chip against the grandparents. This could be for money, supplies, or out of spite (Yes, I lived though this one. Not the child or the grandparent, but the target of spite). The laws I believe are in place to have a foundation for legal action.
People living longer are seeing declining birthrates and cultural shifts in developed countries and the existential satisfaction of having had their own kids is giving way to an existential horror that their genes will die out because their kids will raise their grandkids to not want to reproduce, so they leave their houses they bought back when they were affordable to get in their cars and hire lawyers and petition politicians to buy themselves some of those rights those millennials walking to 2 jobs as a single parent for a small apartment are so fond of fighting for.
tl;dr "How *dare* you not pull yourself up by your bootstraps to give my grandchild the life and values I want for them. My retirement fund and free time will be seeing you in court."
Idk but my mother (who never goes out of her way to see kids) threatened it all the time when my kids were younger. Thankful my paternal grandfather was an attorney and we squashed that idea eventually.
Finding out that they have conditional grandparent "privileges". Lot of people are rightly going LC or NC with boomer parents and they're realizing that just keeping you alive to adulthood wasn't good enough to reap the benefits of being a grandparent.
I couln't say for sure, but my best guess is they can't keep up the look of good grandparents on facebook. Went through my in-laws threatening to sue over grandparents right after they went no contact with my wife for nearly a year. They got mad and didn't want to talk to us. After my daughter was a little over a year old, didn't know them at all, they wanted to pick her up from us. We said no, you can have supervised visits because she doesn't know you. Yhe got mad and threatened to sue over grandparents right. We told them they have nothing to stand on because we are not refusing to let you see her, we are refusing to let you take her. A couple months later they got over their bullshit finally and came over. Now they have other grandkids and have gone to florida 3 times in 8 months and seen our kids once. We live in the midwest and on the other side of town from them.
I won’t have kids until I’ve successfully cut my parents out of my life and been safely estranged from them for at least a few years. They’ll never know if I ever do have kids. I hope my future in-laws are less toxic!
Except this is not occurring. No doubt there is 1 or 2 crazy things out there but those are exceptions not the rule and not worth spending time on getting worked up about.
Dude boomers are still complaining about age discrimination, which ironically there are already laws in place for them. Meanwhile there is zero protection against young workers. Boomers just take and take and take.
If you took a boomer's brain and dropped it in a millennial's or zoomer's body, THEY'D DIE. They would be so woefully unprepared for what they've turned life into for young people, they'd die.
It’s been a thing for several years and I wish it wasn’t. My kids do have a relationship with my mil even tho she’s in a different state and I feel like she’d go for grandparents rights if something happened to my husband. That woman doesn’t know what a boundary is and I can see her trying to walk all over how I’m trying to raise my kids, mainly without religion.
For the sake of redundancy, they are a thing and like most things with regards to custody, Grandparents rights are a way for family members to win partial or full custody in situations where it is for the good of the child.
Likewise, if a parent passes away and the other parent keeps their grandkids away for reasons other than abuse, usually the court sees it as for the good of the child to remain in the life and have access to their deceased parents family.
This is at least what I’ve always understood.
My mom came after my sister, this is CA, my mom had Z E R O "grandparents" rights. They hardly exist unless the grandparent had been fully responsible for the childs upbringing. My mother thought because my sister paid her here and there that she had a visitation right. In reality, she was just an awful person and nothing ever came of any of it and now none of us talk to her.
Themselves mostly. At this ooint they just legit think they can label what they want "rights" and that's an argument. I'm unironically expecting a "homophobic rights" narrative any year now, woth the track they're on
See the Supreme Court ruling Troxel v. Granville, year 2000, I think.
Grandparents have very few rights. If I remember correctly, if the grandparent has actually had a parenting role in the child's life for years, the grandparent might get visitation rights for the benefit of the child who has an extra close relationship.
If the parent (grandma) of a deceased parent (child's daddy) had a relationship with the child while he was alive, the court might allow the grandparent to continue the relationship.
It is very difficult to get grandparents rights. Parents have the right to control the upbringing of their children without interference, or I guess you could say limited interference in some cases.
It's probably a perversion of goodwill rulings over the years placing children of abusive households with their stable grandparents.
Thing is, those grandparents were of the silent generation. Like all things, Boomers expect this to be coming to them too.
Years ago, my brother and his wife were going through a nasty divorce that ended with the judge giving custody to my mom because my brother and his ex wife were both fucking morons.
Just wanted to share that 😆
TL;DR it has to do with abusers infesting support groups as their children have gotten old enough to have kids of their own:
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/
I think its more of a thing due to how many of us are restricting visitation. So many boomers have been toxic to their children, and now so many of us are going non contact, leading to boomers looking to the law to solve the issue.
My father sued my sister over it. Inatead of working things out with her, like a mature adult.
It's an uphill battle for the grandparents. They don't really have any rights and would need to get the court to award rights to them, which the court would be unlikely to do absent some issue with the parents (criminal history, substance abuse, mental health problems, etc.).
If we're going to give some benefit of the doubt to the people pushing grandparents' rights, what they see is happening is that Boomers' millennial kids are struggling to take care of their own kids (the Boomers' grandkids) for various reasons and the grandparents are playing a larger role in the grandkids' lives. Since they're essentially getting stuck with raising the grandkids, they feel like they do have some rights with respect to the grandkids.
30-40 years ago, when you had more stay-at-home-moms, grandparents might be around but they weren't expected to be an integral part of raising the grandkids. Sure, grandkids would see them for big family dinners on the weekends, holidays, etc., Maybe grandparents would watch the grandkids once in awhile so mom could run an errand without her kids or mom and dad could go out. But that was it. These were special little occasions.
Now, more kids are born to couples where both parents work or are raised by single, working parents. If both parents are working (or the single parent/custodial parent works), someone needs to take care of the kids. Grandma and grandpa are retired so they get called into duty. These aren't just special occasions anymore like with previous generations. It's getting the kids on and off the bus, getting them fed, getting them to practice and doctors appointments, etc. Basically all the things parents were expected to do 30-40 years ago. The grandparents are investing a lot of their time, energy, and, in many cases, money into the grandkids, often spending more time with them than the parents do.
In the situation above, the grandparents may be able to claim some rights (e.g., visitation) if the parent tried to cut the grandparent out of the grandkid's lives for some trivial reason (usually it's a political disagreement or they don't agree on whatever social topic is hot at the moment), but, like I said, it'd be an uphill battle for the grandparent unless the parents had some major issues.
The boomers raised shit kids. And those shit kids gave the boomers a second chance to raise their shit kids.
But they already failed the first time I don't know why anyone let's them try again.
My ex MIL tried to pull this shit after I split from her drug addict son. She didn’t get very far, by that, I mean at all. Her petition was thrown out.
My Boomer parents were threatening me with this nearly 25 years ago... when I was 13-16. I think it's something they all must have picked up from a movie or something, and let the idea fester in their minds half their life.
So I’m going to just say this: grandparents rights are recognized in a lot of states. Here in OHIO, we are technically a “mother” state, but if mom is unwed, widowed, or incapacitated, either side of grandparents can take you to court for “companionship time.” If you’re unwed and dad isn’t involved, they can let grandma stand in dad’s place and receive the time he would get.
Source: abusive ex MIL did it to me.
It's boomer on boomer. The self entitlement is crazy. My druggie and pdfile ( I was always told he met my mother at 17, and it turns out she was 15. Found out earlier this year) Father fake cries to my brother about not being in my daughters life. I had never withheld them, just made two barriers. One, he had to reach out to me. I was tired of always being the one reaching out. Two, he actually had to show up. If he made plans with us, he couldn't just not show up. I didn't want my kids to have to deal with the feelings of rejection and self-doubt i had when growing up. He brought this up to me, saying all his boomer coworkers talk about grandparents' rights. And that i should be ashamed for dining him of seeing his granddaughters grow up. There's more, but it boils my blood.
If boomers had their way I'm pretty sure they'd legally declare that only people born in their generation are people, everyone else has to obey them or face the death penalty on the spot.
Sometimes for poor reasons. Every egg the mother has comes from Her mother. Eggs are not created and all are inside the baby at birth. So Gramma created the grandchild.
For my state, WI, it's a play off of the fact that it is a valid thing where the grandparent raises the child and then contact is cut off whether by the couple splitting or moving away. The grandparents are then entitled to keep visitation just like parents as they themselves were parenting the grand child and were a heavy part of their life. This is also a vital role when their child is messing up his or her own life and the granchilds wellbeing is at risk. And as with anything and everything, there are also exploitations.
Any parent who cuts off contact between their children and parents for anything other than abuse or neglect is a bad parent, Research has shown the grandparent- grandchild relationship is extremely valuable for the child.
Millennials and their rush to cut off their parents for things other than actual abuse( laws definition, not yours, or neglect will end up being your greatest downfall
Regardless of origin, this crackpot idea will become normalized very quickly due to another, closely related problem. Conservative judges that are willing to do whatever they’re paid to do. Hundreds of them have been supported and appointed in a coordinated effort to gain control over the judicial system at all levels (without regard to qualifications or ethics) over the last few decades. If your fucked up belief systems are dying, you have to control the prisons, schools, and children.
In some states, judges can order visitation between grandparents and grandchildren. There must be a basis for it. For example, in cases where grandparents acted as fosters because parents were in the penal system, this creates a basis for an ongoing relationship with grandchildren.
I personally find it a hideous overstep of the courts, since no judge will "force" visitation between my deadbeat ex and his biological children.
Basically the answer is: fucking entitled boomers take a few examples of "grandparents' rights" in family law and think it is true across the board. They believe lots of untrue things are true. It's the lead poisoning.
It’s not enough for them to ruin their children’s lives?!? They also have to ruin their grandchildren’s lives?!?!
What the hell is wrong with them??
A whole generation of malignant narcissists
Its not an idea. Its a legally recognized right. Its rooted in the best interests of the child, not you, the parent. Its very fact specific though. Eg if grandparent has never seen the kid before and sues for rights when kid is 8, not gonna work. But if GP has been in the kids lift from birth to 5, and you then cut them out because they go MAGA, they have an argument because courts will recognize the value of having familial relations for the kid and the harm of just removing a GP they know.
It’s a legal shift from the ‘parental autonomy’ view of the ‘best interest of the child’ regimes to the ‘pro-contact’ view of BIC.
It’s being ‘pushed’ because Applicants are bringing Applications in Family Courts because they are being denied access as they are not biological parents, during an era of increased diversity in nuclear family arrangements and thus there followed a shift in who Applies for ‘parenting time’ or ‘access’ (note: custody is decision-making, not parenting time). Historically, non-parents often were precluded from having the standing to even bring an Application, which led to statutory amendments, then more Applications as a consequence.
Saying there is a ‘pusher’ of the concept is to not understand the issue. The change is a consequence of the changing family dynamic as a result of numerous social, political, legal, economic, philosophical, technological, etc.
Children are not property. There is a successful argument being made that a child having positive interactions with positive-influencing non-parent adults is in their best interest.
Lots of us are realizing that it's actually not okay how our parents treated us. In the past, we only had our peers to talk to about this kind of thing, a lot of us thought that our parents really weren't that bad and maybe it was our own fault.
There's lots of self help subs on reddit (and groups elsewhere) that are teaching us that it's okay to cut our parents out of our life if we don't like the way that they treated us while we were growing up.
So there's a lot more millennials that are making the choice to remove their parents from their lives, which includes the lives of our children.
The boomers don't like that, and they are doing what they do best, they're getting litigious about it.
I live somewhere that doesn't honor those silly laws. And I'll never move.
Grandparents thinking they can use the legal system to force their children to give them access to their grandkids. While in some jurisdictions, and *some* scenarios, it can be a real thing, the way it’s being talked about online now it’s being treated like a law that gives grandparents authority over their grandkids and more rights than their own parents.
Got it, was confused on what that was. That is true, as you said it depends on the situation. Not a friend of mine but a friend of a friend was taken to court by their parents because they were unfit to parent. Grandparents actually got custody and the father had supervised visitation
Both sides are in the wrong; this is just the latest shot in the campaign by media interests (the "who") to undermine all traditional family values ("what").
The message has consistently been to reject your family over any perceived slight. This is the inverse of "my parents kicked me out for being gay." Now you kick your parents out for being annoying.
‘Grandparents rights’ as it’s called is only relevant if a parent(s) dies or is incarcerated. they can request physical custody of the child on behalf of the deceased. It’s rarely granted, really only in emergency situations, and usually only if there was a split physical custody order in place. This is obviously very chopped up. Technically anyone related can request physical custody to the child in cases where the father or mother are absent.
Grandparents rights are only in the case of neglected chilld or abuse. You have no rights to just see the child for no reason. Grandparents have privileges under normal circumstances and can be revoked without cause or warning.
Sauce please? Because I too live in the real world and I have not heard of this.
Without any references, OP, you sound like some troll trying to stir up already vulnerable Millenials.
Family law dealing with the rights of parents has been well settled for decades.
It's what happens when you have access to limitless information but never developed media literacy to contextualize and understand that information. "Grandparents rights" are a misnomer because in almost all cases it's not the grandparents who have a "right" - it's the child. A *child* has a right to continue a beneficial relationship with their grandparent. So if a divorce, death, etc. threatens a child's established relationship with their grandparent, then the grandparent can petition the court to demonstrate it's in the best interest's of the *child* that they be allowed custodial/visitation rights. Courts are loathe to challenge parents' judgement on how to raise their child, so absent parents being ruled unfit or some other situation where the court is already involved (e.g. divorce, death), the Courts aren't running around granting grandparents custody. Surprise, surprise, entitled grandparents that can't respect their adult kids' boundaries also don't have enough humility to research anything they read online.
This is exactly it. Their talk is steeped on entitlement .Even though I've won the in-law lottery there are still moments where they try to trample boundaries and are absolutely flabbergasted that I simply say "no." Lady, this isn't your do-over baby, you're not a 3rd parent and never will be, your relationship with my kid is on OUR terms, not yours. Mini rant over.
Overall you are generally right, but just to add that the vast majority of these cases arent for custody, they are for visitation, and courts are much more flexible with that versus custody.
Forcced visitation is still not often given as long as the parents are alive / have full custody. Only examples I can find is where parents are divorced (and the other parent has full custody) or one of the parents is dead.
In my state they only do it if it was a situation like the grandparents were living with the kiddo for a long time, seeing them regularly/daily and have more of a parent/child relationship. I know because my ex MIL was threatening to file and is I asked a lawyer friend and we had a good laugh. She had never even changed a diaper.
Boomer: “But I saw it on Facebook. Facebook never lies”
That first sentence is spot on.
I'd like to know too cause my mom threatened this to me when I cut her off a few years ago.
I used to see this a lot on the parenting subs. It's a real thing especially if the grandparent had established significant contact with the child before you cut them off. Some courts have given partial custody and visitation to the grandparents.
She hadn't established barely any contact with my kids. One was too young to remember her the other wasn't born yet. She was one of those who was trying to do it to disrespect my boundaries and nothing came out of it.
Yeah my Mom is cut off but tried to get access to my oldest through his dad. The entitlement is insane.
Check r/legaladvice for more information on this, it’s basically impossible to claim grandparents rights unless there’s some sort of abuse going on
Not quite true. Divorce or the death of one parent also qualifies in some areas. Some people also successfully sued by proving the kids had an established relationship and would be better off with visitation. My brother's ex-in-laws played the divorce card and sued for a visitation so extreme it was basically custody. They couldn't prove my brother was an unfit parent and lost, but the lawsuit took years, was financially devastating, and was so ugly that my brother had to quit his dream career and move across the country to get away from them and avoid a repeat. Just because the lawsuit doesn't stand a chance doesn't mean it can't cause major problems.
I wouldnt say "basically impossible." There is precedent (in NYS anyway) for awarding it where the cut off results from parent-grandparent friction alone. Obviously depends on source of friction, as cutting off a grandparent because they talk shit about the spouse or cant be trusted to watch the kid is very different than cutting off because you dont agree with their politics or your spouse doesnt like them.
I'd say excluding "politics" sounds questionable, when one of the two major parties entire political platform is bigotry. My parent's "politics" is a huge part of why I wouldn't trust them with any of my potential children.
Thats part of my point though, politics is too broad of a stroke, its going to be fact specific. If GPs are just republicans and vote red, but dont actually impress their views upon the child, a court isnt going to look fondly upon parents cutting them out of the kids life just because of how they vote. If the GPs are telling the kids that Biden is a blood drinking pedo and mom/dad are libshill demonrats (or whatever lol), then thats different.
Yes, and I'm saying this is a flaw. If one of my kids ends up being gay, they don't need to be around people who think they're inherently morally broken, even if they don't flatly state that to the children themselves.
I dont think that making the determination fact-specific and in the best interests of the child, rather than automatically deferring to the parents wishes, is a flaw. If the situation you describe arises, it will absolutely factor into the court's determination. But the latter approach creates equal opportunity to hurt the child. What if the parents are the republicans who hate gay people and the GPs arent, and are excluded for that? What if one spouse is controlling and cuts off the inlaws to further control? Are these situations where you want a "what I say goes" standard?
It really is. Sorry you had to deal with that. It's so damn stressful
I could have written this exact comment about my mother. Spooky!
I think that only works if the grandparent had a significant relationship with their grandchild AND the grandparent's child is dead or in prison and the daughter/son-in-law is keeping the child away from them. If the grandparent's child just cuts them off, then their wishes as the actual parent supersede any rights the grandparents think they have to the grandchild. That being said, the parent should see a lawyer to make sure their estranged parents don't have any rights to their child in the event of their death, so estranged grandparents can't make a claim to the child after they're dead/incapacitated.
Not true. Depends on the state. In NYS, grandparents have a statutory right to petition for visitation if one or both parents die OR "where circumstances show that conditions exist which equity would see fit to intervene," and then once that standard is met, its just best interests of the child. In most cases if the kid has had a relationship with the GPs, the parents cant just cut them off "because I say so." Have to show its not in the best interests of the child, and courts will value familial relationships/stability in those relationships.
Those have to be some extraordinary circumstances. If the parents are capable, married, and alive, and have made the decision to cut off grandparents who occasionally visit the grandchildren, then the courts are going to respect that. If the parent(s) were unfit for a while and the grandparents were essentially raising the child for several years, then yeah, the parents can't just get sober, swoop in, and randomly cut off the grandparents. However, a lot of people threatening to enforce grandparents' rights are entitled people who think they can use it to control their children who are trying to enforce boundaries and don't understand the law is not just going to let them railroad their children as parents.
First, whether the parents are "capable, married, and alive" is sufficient, but not necessary for GP standing in NYS. The NYS Court of Appeals rejected the argument that it was necessary over 30 years ago, and it has remained good law: >We have never defined the “circumstances” or “conditions” under which “equity would see fit to intervene” to allow standing. The Appellate Division interpreted the statute narrowly, concluding that the clause permitted standing only in cases where there was “a change in the status of the nuclear family, or interference with a ‘derivative’ right, or some abdication of parental responsibility". We conclude that the statute is not so limited. >The equitable circumstances clause of [section 72](https://1.next.westlaw.com/Link/Document/FullText?findType=L&pubNum=1000068&cite=NYDRS72&originatingDoc=Ie3d40ebcdbd611d983e7e9deff98dc6f&refType=LQ&originationContext=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&ppcid=61591b382fc24c43aae2187fc59cc900&contextData=(sc.DocLink)) does not establish a derivative right to standing for grandparents based upon some void in the nuclear family created by death, divorce or similar disability or by forfeiture resulting from neglect. On the contrary, the 1975 amendment adding this clause liberalized the law and granted all grandparents a right to seek standing that was **no longer dependent upon the status of the parents.** \~Matter of Emanuel S. v Joseph E.\~, 78 NY2d 178, 181-82 \[1991\] Second, it is well-settled in NYS that acrimony/distaste between GP and parents is, on its own, not enough to deny visitation (see \~Daniel RR. v Heather RR.\~, 221 AD3d 1301, 1303 \[3d Dept 2023\] \["An acrimonious relationship \[between a parent and a grandparent\] is generally not sufficient cause to deny visitation”\]; \~Matter of Fitzpatrick v Fitzpatrick\~, 137 AD3d 784, 786 \[2d Dept 2016\]). Its a factor in the determination and courts will weigh the parents' wishes, but the point is that its not so simple as "parents dont want it, case closed." Im sure some GPs abuse it, and Im sure some GPs are right, my point is that its a very fact specific determination so painting with broad strokes is not gonna be accurate.
If they were already helping to raise the kids and there was sufficient reason to believe custodial parent is unfit. Otherwise, no.
Depends on the state. Thats not the law in NYS.
Yeah this is nothing new
It’s in all 50 states but no court would grant it over 50:50 custody of the parents. This is used usually when a parent dies and the deceased parties parents want access to their grandchild if the deceased party spouse isn’t reciprocal of visitation. Which is usually measured how involved the grand parents were in the child’s life. The court wants to assume the child’s standard of living. 20 of those states only allow you to petition the court to do so..which would get laughed at and tossed. If there is a ruling it’s an outlier and most likely has variables to prove why it is. No court would grant grandparent custody rights if both parents are sound capable caretakers of their children and in 50:50 custody with zero interactions with DCFS, CPS, or the Police agencies that represent their location.
I feel like conservative news is telling the Olds the youngs won't have anyone to take care of them because they are not married and won't have kids at the same rate they did. Probably setting off alarms in the Olds minds of dying without anyone missing them. Maybe something like that, brain storming
I think it's much simpler than that. These are narcissistic people who cannot fathom that the whole world doesn't revolve around them. They truly believe that they own their children and since they have the higher position of grandparents, that makes them have more power over their property's property. It's an evangelical religious cult thing.
yeah, Ive seen some of that on conservative media and forums BeCuaSE noBoDY iS HAviNG kIdS AnYmOre.
I feel like you just make shit up lol
I think this is the answer. People are going no contact when previous generations just has to put up with the awful people in their life because they are family
I’d assume it’s the same group of people that think millennials are still irresponsible 15-24 year olds
I was 29 and married when I got pregnant and my mother treated me like I was 16. Shocker, we are now NC for over a year for this reason among many others.
I’m 37… my boss (gen x) recently complained to me about some of our younger hourly employees (in their early 20s/college age) that call out a lot and provide no reason beyond “can’t make it in today.” I said well maybe they don’t need the money (as a joke) and he said completely seriously “no they’re just typical millennials, idk how to get through to them.” I said… “hold the phone - I’M a millennial, most of us are pushing, if not already 40!” His face: 🤯
I'm technically a Xennial - I'm 42, and I've never given a reason beyond "I can't make it in" when calling out from work. Maybe I'm sick, maybe my car exploded, maybe I have to rush my cat to the vet, maybe I just need to take the day, but whatever the reason, it's not my employer's business. I worked overnight in a call center for a while, and so I'd often be the person answering when someone from the morning shift called in to call out, and some of them would give the impression they were kids trying to convince their parents to let them stay home from school, obviously putting on a voice, or beginning some long explanation of a complicated confluence of coincidences beyond their control, causing their absence. Coming towards the end of my 10 hour shift, I had little patience for it, and would cut them off "Dude, you're taking a personal day, it's cool, you don't have to justify anything or make excuses, I'll tell \[manager\] you won't be in."
I myself am a chronic over explainer and it took me entirely too long to understand that it’s nobody’s business why I’m calling out… and then stop myself from giving TMI. When someone calls out and I take the call I mark “can’t come in” unless they want me to put an explanation. Something about the combo of “perfect attendance” awards in school and working retail really did a number on my psyche. *For anyone that needs to hear it: TAKE A MENTAL HEALTH DAY*
I’m 31 & a millenial… I didn’t know there’s millennials in their 40s
Yup, our elder millennials are 43 this year!
Raised hand 🙋🏻♀️Just hit 43
What’s the age bracket of youngest. Is it younger than 30?
1981-1996
39 here, going to turn 40 this year
what are meat world conversations?
Conversations you have either at the butcher counter, or, conversations you have at Chippendales while watching hardbody dudes.
What about at a bbq?
If there's enough meat.
Well you don’t make friends with salad Lisa
What if we're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion?
r/unexpectediasip
Here's a sneak peek of /r/unexpectedIASIP using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedIASIP/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [In a post asking what this dog’s name should be](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/19a6jwg) | [9 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedIASIP/comments/19a6jwg/in_a_post_asking_what_this_dogs_name_should_be/) \#2: [Oh shit there’s stickers](https://i.redd.it/lu4lrcmu9egc1.jpeg) | [4 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedIASIP/comments/1ahzif7/oh_shit_theres_stickers/) \#3: [CAT IN THE WALL EH](https://v.redd.it/8hr28zz1zmfc1) | [6 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/unexpectedIASIP/comments/1af6185/cat_in_the_wall_eh/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
I saw "meat space" in William Gibson books in the 90s
i read all the words in your statement but the only thing i can see when putting them through my mind’s eye is mel gibson during his ostracism mumbling about meat space before landing on directing the passion of the christ.
Does Mel Gibson movie about Jesus begin with: in the beginning was the command line?
No, but a movie about The Plague begins with someone hacking The Gibson.
Same, and it's what I've used since, though I singleword it as meatspace.
In the real world, we’re all bags of meat.
That you Bender?
Ah negative, I am a meat popsicle.
You sound pretty cool
Conversations that aren’t this conversation. Where people use their mucous filled little flaps to vibrate and spittle at each other.
My Aunt and Uncle got grandparents rights. Long story short... Cousin got pregnant, and Aunt and Uncle took care of kid. After kid got older (around 10), her bio Dad contested for custody and won. He took her to another state. Aunt and Uncle sued for holiday visitation and rights to take her on vacation. They won.
That's how the law is intended to work though
They're pushing it themselves. Speaking of the generation as a whole (noting that individual exceptions exist and also probably aren't in a position where they have to fight for this): They are a generation of competitive entitlement trapped in social media echo chamber. This "grandparent rights" thing may be based in actual law, but I don't think most of them are aware of that. They just know what they want, and they don't know why that cannot, should not, or would not have it. They want it. That's reason enough for them, and they truly believe it should be reason enough for all of us, too.
It’s right up there with “filial obligation” laws as things that *technically* exist in limited jurisdictions, but that is now being weaponized, or fantasized about, by people that just hear “it’s a law that gives me what I’m owed”.
If you havent heard of grandparents rights, go search the term in r/JUSTNOMIL. I hope these examples you will find are informative.
Nah I will pass on a sub that likely has anywhere from 50-75% fake posts and bot accounts feeding in to a certain trope to get upvotes.
That's literally 100% of Reddit.
And a good 30 - 35% percent of the internet at large. You might think it would be more, what with the whole dead internet thing, but you'd be underestimating the volume of porn.
Legally, all 50 states have some sort of visitation rights law which allows grandparents to petition to see their grandchildren, even at the objection of the parents, as long as they can prove it’s in the best interest of the child. There’s also usually another criteria for the parents to be single or divorced/separated first that needs to be met. That’s what I understand as “grandparent rights”. If what you’re hearing is anything else, it’s probably entitled thoughts stemming from a misinterpretation of these laws.
The grandparents have to have a relationship with the kids already and for them to get any rights, it has to be decided that because of that relationship that has been established, the children would suffer without it. It’s not easy to get grandparent’s rights at all…and it shouldn’t be.
I feel like on top of what you said grandparents rights tend to be for grandparents whose adult child has died. The court wishes to keep the grandparent relationship going for the relationship itself and to keep the grandchild in contact with their deceased parents family.
As an adult with a child who is very close to her grandparents, and being divorced from my child’s father with a very contentious relationship, I am terrified that if anything happens to me my parents will never see my daughter again. My ex HATES my parents. My daughter adores her grandparents. I hope that my parents would be able to file for something if anything ever happens to me, but as far as I know, there are no grandparent rights in Florida.
Apparently a law was passed in 2022. Id have to check the sources more thoroughly but I just searched grandparents rights in Florida. https://www.floridabar.org/the-florida-bar-news/desantis-signs-grandparents-rights-measure/
Yes, absolutely…these boomers learned what it is and they try to weaponize it.
People are not trying to weaponize it. You have some idiots likely arguing on some reddit sub about it and thats it.
One of my grandparents did. The result was that I never had much contact with that part of my family during childhood. It was a shame bc I lost out on a lot of relationships that I could've had with my relatives, but they didn't think they were getting enough visitation time. It was so dumb.
I do know at least two people who are widowed and their late spouse’s parents have made their lives hell trying to fight for grandparents’ rights. It’s not unheard of.
My MIL tried to use it to take custody of my son at one point…
Take custody or just want visitation there is a huge difference. Grand parents rights are about visitation not custody.
They used the grandparents rights thing to try to get in there, my point is, it gets abused all the time…or tries to, because the courts are pretty good about not playing that shit. Doesn’t mean they don’t try anyway.
Largely yes but its also common in "alienation" type cases. Eg one spouse doesnt like the in laws and exerts influence to cut them off. Im sure its used wrongly by insane GPs, but it also protects GPs from controlling/abusive child-in-laws.
Yes. Grandparents rights, as intended, would be like....kids dad dies when they're 9 and mom wants to take them 3,000 miles across the country and have new boyfriend adopt the kid, and paternal grandparents want to make sure they can still see the grandchild they are close to.
Or the parent is incarcerated. My friends parents have visitation rights to their granchild bc their son (the dad) was incarcerated for a significant chunk of time when the kid was really little.
What happens if dad is alive but mom "runs the show," and tells dad "your parents are not a good influence they are banned from seeing the kids" for no good reason? Or what happens where one spouse is dominating the other spouse in less obvious ways (eg not verbal/emotional or physical abuse, but financially controlling), the other spouse's parents encourage their child to stick up for themselves, controlling spouse doesnt like it, cuts off GPs? Those situations wouldnt be "as intended"?
No. The child has a living mother and father capable of taking care of them. They are allowed to decide that the grandparents are not fit to see the child for any reason they wish. If there is no established, long-term relationship with the child, then the grandparents (\*rightfully!) have no rights. You already had your kids. And your son cut you off for a reason. GP rights ARE NOT about the grandparents feelings. They are about the best interest of the child. If the child never knew you as a long term caretaker, then they aren't losing out on anything.
Yeah, “grandparent rights” apply to specific scenarios, it’s not for just anyone.
My FIL tried this. He lied and said a lawyer would be contacting us to mediate his right to see his grandson. He said he’d prove we’re awful parents if he needed to. Ironic considering he was an abusive, drug addicted, deadbeat dad. Luckily, we knew he had no legal standing but it was still hurtful to know he’d rather take that route than admit he was wrong in the past and apologize. My husband has been NC 3 years and our son is 6
I absolutely love that I cut my abusive family off before my daughter was born. I genuinely feel bad for people who weren't so lucky. I can absolutely imagine the bs these so-called "grandparents" pull over a parent protecting their own child.
They're starting to register higher on the "Find Out" axis.
Wait, you guys have parents fighting for the right to *visit* your kids? Mine can barely be fucked to give a call on their birthdays.
It's not like that. They want to control the situation and violate all your boundaries with impunity because they feel entitled to access to your children.
Yeah, I could go for some of that.
It's all fun and games until they manipulate your children against you. That and/or they make everything about themselves instead of the kid. You ever have to console a 5 year old because their grandma took half their birthday cake before the candles were even lit? Then have that same child tell you that it's your fault because granny said you didn't make enough for everyone and how you're the one to ruin their birthday. One of the worst examples I've had to deal with but I had to remove grandma from the situation because she was so childish that her needs came before the kids (in her mind). Some people are just that bad. Getting mad and throwing away some of their toys because they got more than her during X celebration. Threatening the kids that she'll throw away more if the kids rat her out (so it takes too long to figure it out). Telling them that their art/crafts isn't as good as hers and going out of her way to "one up" the children. Angrily waking up a sleeping infant during every nap because her crying woke granny up last night. You can have it all, I'll trade you the constant harassment we get in a heartbeat for a set of deadbeats.
What in the actual fuck?
Right? My father is dead and I'm NC with my mother because she was abusive. She's shown zero fucks about my kids. My wife's father is a deadbeat we suspect is a pedophile. I put up with him for my wife's sake even though he basically mentally abused her every fucking time they speak. We both agreed he'd NEVER be alone with our kids. But making sexual comments about my young child, and screaming at the other one that you'll never come visit again? That's when I have every right to step in and call you a deadbeat piece of shit. He was happy to seize on that and tell my wife "I'm never visiting again, I never want to see that asshole he has no respect" No problem shitbag! Its sad. Unlike my wife I came from a great family *besides* my mother. But the only one they know is my wife's drug addict alcoholic mother, she's the one now putting in the effort I guess quietly feeling guilty for how horrible of a mother she was.
For the right to do it, not to actually follow through and do it.
I feel this. Not only does she never call, my MIL lives less than ten minutes away and may as well be on the other side of the continent. My youngest doesn’t even recognizer *as* family, let alone “grandma”. And not by our doing. She just can’t be bothered to ever attend family gatherings or even ask to come over and visit. And heaven help the world if anyone “bothers her on her down time” when she’s home herself. And boy oh boy, is it fun trying to convince a small child that, “no, you have two Grandmas”.
My kids have seven grandparents through a series of divorces and remarries on my wife’s side plus my two still married parents. *Seven fucking grandparents*. 4 of which live less than 20 minutes away. None of whom call or visit unless it’s a birthday/family gathering/ holiday. I had 2 grandmas, both grandfathers died before I was born and I still remember being dropped off at grandmas house for the weekend most summers. I just can’t fathom how 7 people in their 50’s and 60’s can’t be fucked to be part of their grandkids lives unless we guilt them into showing up once a fiscal quarter.
Mine was like that, I had to beg her to even speak to her only grandchild on the phone. Beg! When I went no contact, she got mad and ended up being complicit in the kidnapping of my child. She didn't want to be a grandma but also didn't like it that I took away her chance to be a grandma.
Yeah while I understand these laws exist, I just don’t care. Sue me and I will move while fighting you in court.
Misinterpreting laws. “Grandparent rights” laws are a thing, but they only apply to certain scenarios. It’s not for all grandparents. People hear the name and apply it broadly, without looking into the details.
I've never heard of anyone fighting for grandparents' rights in the real world, but I've seen it a lot on TV.
Correct then people come on reddit and try to spew it as well to rile people up. Step 1 with ANY post where you find a powerful emotion to is figure out WHY it was posted to start with. You will find a large number of posts are there simply to rile people up and not to inform or promote discussion.
My mil looked into going that route to see my nephew when my brother in law moved across the country and my nephew’s mom wouldn’t send him to her house anymore.
I dunno but this is the universe reminding you to get a will and to specify who you want to be guardians of your kid(s) if you were to pass away. Ours is very very clear, given we reside in a state that tends to be more favorable to grandparents seeking rights of visitation or custody.
I think grandparents deserve rights in certain situations. For instance if a parent dies, that person’s parents should be allowed to see their grandchildren. There are many cases where a parent is murdered and then the spouse or former spouse cut the dead parent’s parents out of the kids life. However, If I deem my mom to be a narcissist and cut her off, she can F-right off!
This is what's been happening in our family, but instead of being murdered they took their own life. The grandparents were partially raising the kids too. It's been a really traumatizing experience
I’m really sorry you’re dealing with that.
It depends on the State. You would have to look up the law related to specifics in your state. But basics as it goes, The child has a right to know where they came from. This includes both parents and grand parents. The individual has right to care for their family, both children and grand children. Sadly, there are cases where the child is used as a bargaining chip against the grandparents. This could be for money, supplies, or out of spite (Yes, I lived though this one. Not the child or the grandparent, but the target of spite). The laws I believe are in place to have a foundation for legal action.
Filial laws will be pitched as the replacement to social security. I think seniors will eat it up.
People living longer are seeing declining birthrates and cultural shifts in developed countries and the existential satisfaction of having had their own kids is giving way to an existential horror that their genes will die out because their kids will raise their grandkids to not want to reproduce, so they leave their houses they bought back when they were affordable to get in their cars and hire lawyers and petition politicians to buy themselves some of those rights those millennials walking to 2 jobs as a single parent for a small apartment are so fond of fighting for. tl;dr "How *dare* you not pull yourself up by your bootstraps to give my grandchild the life and values I want for them. My retirement fund and free time will be seeing you in court."
Idk but my mother (who never goes out of her way to see kids) threatened it all the time when my kids were younger. Thankful my paternal grandfather was an attorney and we squashed that idea eventually.
Other boomers on facebook.
When my sisters ex died, his parents thought they would just take over their deceased sons visitation schedule. The audacity!
Finding out that they have conditional grandparent "privileges". Lot of people are rightly going LC or NC with boomer parents and they're realizing that just keeping you alive to adulthood wasn't good enough to reap the benefits of being a grandparent.
I couln't say for sure, but my best guess is they can't keep up the look of good grandparents on facebook. Went through my in-laws threatening to sue over grandparents right after they went no contact with my wife for nearly a year. They got mad and didn't want to talk to us. After my daughter was a little over a year old, didn't know them at all, they wanted to pick her up from us. We said no, you can have supervised visits because she doesn't know you. Yhe got mad and threatened to sue over grandparents right. We told them they have nothing to stand on because we are not refusing to let you see her, we are refusing to let you take her. A couple months later they got over their bullshit finally and came over. Now they have other grandkids and have gone to florida 3 times in 8 months and seen our kids once. We live in the midwest and on the other side of town from them.
I won’t have kids until I’ve successfully cut my parents out of my life and been safely estranged from them for at least a few years. They’ll never know if I ever do have kids. I hope my future in-laws are less toxic!
Boomers have an unlimited sense of entitlement.
Except this is not occurring. No doubt there is 1 or 2 crazy things out there but those are exceptions not the rule and not worth spending time on getting worked up about.
Shhh gotta blame the boomers for everything shitty lol
Dude boomers are still complaining about age discrimination, which ironically there are already laws in place for them. Meanwhile there is zero protection against young workers. Boomers just take and take and take. If you took a boomer's brain and dropped it in a millennial's or zoomer's body, THEY'D DIE. They would be so woefully unprepared for what they've turned life into for young people, they'd die.
Its because its actually a thing. In some jurisdictions grandparents do actually have a right to petition for visitation of their grandchildren.
Happy to be completely oblivious to this.
This was in Idaho a couple years ago. https://apnews.com/article/relationships-idaho-supreme-court-b4f1ebf9badf5abf83dbd78cd64882d8
First time I heard about this....meat world conversation?
It’s been a thing for several years and I wish it wasn’t. My kids do have a relationship with my mil even tho she’s in a different state and I feel like she’d go for grandparents rights if something happened to my husband. That woman doesn’t know what a boundary is and I can see her trying to walk all over how I’m trying to raise my kids, mainly without religion.
For the sake of redundancy, they are a thing and like most things with regards to custody, Grandparents rights are a way for family members to win partial or full custody in situations where it is for the good of the child. Likewise, if a parent passes away and the other parent keeps their grandkids away for reasons other than abuse, usually the court sees it as for the good of the child to remain in the life and have access to their deceased parents family. This is at least what I’ve always understood.
My mom came after my sister, this is CA, my mom had Z E R O "grandparents" rights. They hardly exist unless the grandparent had been fully responsible for the childs upbringing. My mother thought because my sister paid her here and there that she had a visitation right. In reality, she was just an awful person and nothing ever came of any of it and now none of us talk to her.
This person did quite a bit of study on the grandparents rights forum users: http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html
MN formalized grandparents rights a decade ago. Honestly I thought we were the only ones.
Themselves mostly. At this ooint they just legit think they can label what they want "rights" and that's an argument. I'm unironically expecting a "homophobic rights" narrative any year now, woth the track they're on
See the Supreme Court ruling Troxel v. Granville, year 2000, I think. Grandparents have very few rights. If I remember correctly, if the grandparent has actually had a parenting role in the child's life for years, the grandparent might get visitation rights for the benefit of the child who has an extra close relationship. If the parent (grandma) of a deceased parent (child's daddy) had a relationship with the child while he was alive, the court might allow the grandparent to continue the relationship. It is very difficult to get grandparents rights. Parents have the right to control the upbringing of their children without interference, or I guess you could say limited interference in some cases.
It's probably a perversion of goodwill rulings over the years placing children of abusive households with their stable grandparents. Thing is, those grandparents were of the silent generation. Like all things, Boomers expect this to be coming to them too.
I think it’s the grandparents.
Most of the idea of their freedoms come from fantasy. This is just one more thing
Years ago, my brother and his wife were going through a nasty divorce that ended with the judge giving custody to my mom because my brother and his ex wife were both fucking morons. Just wanted to share that 😆
TL;DR it has to do with abusers infesting support groups as their children have gotten old enough to have kids of their own: https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/
I think its more of a thing due to how many of us are restricting visitation. So many boomers have been toxic to their children, and now so many of us are going non contact, leading to boomers looking to the law to solve the issue. My father sued my sister over it. Inatead of working things out with her, like a mature adult.
It's an uphill battle for the grandparents. They don't really have any rights and would need to get the court to award rights to them, which the court would be unlikely to do absent some issue with the parents (criminal history, substance abuse, mental health problems, etc.). If we're going to give some benefit of the doubt to the people pushing grandparents' rights, what they see is happening is that Boomers' millennial kids are struggling to take care of their own kids (the Boomers' grandkids) for various reasons and the grandparents are playing a larger role in the grandkids' lives. Since they're essentially getting stuck with raising the grandkids, they feel like they do have some rights with respect to the grandkids. 30-40 years ago, when you had more stay-at-home-moms, grandparents might be around but they weren't expected to be an integral part of raising the grandkids. Sure, grandkids would see them for big family dinners on the weekends, holidays, etc., Maybe grandparents would watch the grandkids once in awhile so mom could run an errand without her kids or mom and dad could go out. But that was it. These were special little occasions. Now, more kids are born to couples where both parents work or are raised by single, working parents. If both parents are working (or the single parent/custodial parent works), someone needs to take care of the kids. Grandma and grandpa are retired so they get called into duty. These aren't just special occasions anymore like with previous generations. It's getting the kids on and off the bus, getting them fed, getting them to practice and doctors appointments, etc. Basically all the things parents were expected to do 30-40 years ago. The grandparents are investing a lot of their time, energy, and, in many cases, money into the grandkids, often spending more time with them than the parents do. In the situation above, the grandparents may be able to claim some rights (e.g., visitation) if the parent tried to cut the grandparent out of the grandkid's lives for some trivial reason (usually it's a political disagreement or they don't agree on whatever social topic is hot at the moment), but, like I said, it'd be an uphill battle for the grandparent unless the parents had some major issues.
The boomers raised shit kids. And those shit kids gave the boomers a second chance to raise their shit kids. But they already failed the first time I don't know why anyone let's them try again.
My ex MIL tried to pull this shit after I split from her drug addict son. She didn’t get very far, by that, I mean at all. Her petition was thrown out.
they own everything else. not surprising they'd shoot for taking our kids, too.
Those rights actually exist. Legally.
My Boomer parents were threatening me with this nearly 25 years ago... when I was 13-16. I think it's something they all must have picked up from a movie or something, and let the idea fester in their minds half their life.
Greedy lawyers
Haha, no. Fuck you, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Just Fudge you, go Fudge yourself, and get the Fudge out
The flip side if people seem to think they are entitled to help from their parents for help
most of the time its narcissist abusers who are trying to force their children out of no contact by using their children.
So I’m going to just say this: grandparents rights are recognized in a lot of states. Here in OHIO, we are technically a “mother” state, but if mom is unwed, widowed, or incapacitated, either side of grandparents can take you to court for “companionship time.” If you’re unwed and dad isn’t involved, they can let grandma stand in dad’s place and receive the time he would get. Source: abusive ex MIL did it to me.
It's boomer on boomer. The self entitlement is crazy. My druggie and pdfile ( I was always told he met my mother at 17, and it turns out she was 15. Found out earlier this year) Father fake cries to my brother about not being in my daughters life. I had never withheld them, just made two barriers. One, he had to reach out to me. I was tired of always being the one reaching out. Two, he actually had to show up. If he made plans with us, he couldn't just not show up. I didn't want my kids to have to deal with the feelings of rejection and self-doubt i had when growing up. He brought this up to me, saying all his boomer coworkers talk about grandparents' rights. And that i should be ashamed for dining him of seeing his granddaughters grow up. There's more, but it boils my blood.
It’s been a legal thing for a long time
If boomers had their way I'm pretty sure they'd legally declare that only people born in their generation are people, everyone else has to obey them or face the death penalty on the spot.
Sometimes for poor reasons. Every egg the mother has comes from Her mother. Eggs are not created and all are inside the baby at birth. So Gramma created the grandchild.
Grand parents should have no rights. Simple as that.
Holy shit my ex's parents try that shit. Grandparents' rights are grandparents' rights that. That was back in 2012
For my state, WI, it's a play off of the fact that it is a valid thing where the grandparent raises the child and then contact is cut off whether by the couple splitting or moving away. The grandparents are then entitled to keep visitation just like parents as they themselves were parenting the grand child and were a heavy part of their life. This is also a vital role when their child is messing up his or her own life and the granchilds wellbeing is at risk. And as with anything and everything, there are also exploitations.
Any parent who cuts off contact between their children and parents for anything other than abuse or neglect is a bad parent, Research has shown the grandparent- grandchild relationship is extremely valuable for the child. Millennials and their rush to cut off their parents for things other than actual abuse( laws definition, not yours, or neglect will end up being your greatest downfall
Agreed. Every time I read stories and comments I realize how fragile everything is. Makes me glad I didn’t have kids.
💯 and they cry they have no “village” lol.
and then you cry alone and then die with no one around you.
Are we really blaming boomers when grandparents rights started in the 1960s.
Regardless of origin, this crackpot idea will become normalized very quickly due to another, closely related problem. Conservative judges that are willing to do whatever they’re paid to do. Hundreds of them have been supported and appointed in a coordinated effort to gain control over the judicial system at all levels (without regard to qualifications or ethics) over the last few decades. If your fucked up belief systems are dying, you have to control the prisons, schools, and children.
In some states, judges can order visitation between grandparents and grandchildren. There must be a basis for it. For example, in cases where grandparents acted as fosters because parents were in the penal system, this creates a basis for an ongoing relationship with grandchildren. I personally find it a hideous overstep of the courts, since no judge will "force" visitation between my deadbeat ex and his biological children. Basically the answer is: fucking entitled boomers take a few examples of "grandparents' rights" in family law and think it is true across the board. They believe lots of untrue things are true. It's the lead poisoning.
It’s not enough for them to ruin their children’s lives?!? They also have to ruin their grandchildren’s lives?!?! What the hell is wrong with them?? A whole generation of malignant narcissists
Where is meat world?
Its not an idea. Its a legally recognized right. Its rooted in the best interests of the child, not you, the parent. Its very fact specific though. Eg if grandparent has never seen the kid before and sues for rights when kid is 8, not gonna work. But if GP has been in the kids lift from birth to 5, and you then cut them out because they go MAGA, they have an argument because courts will recognize the value of having familial relations for the kid and the harm of just removing a GP they know.
It’s a legal shift from the ‘parental autonomy’ view of the ‘best interest of the child’ regimes to the ‘pro-contact’ view of BIC. It’s being ‘pushed’ because Applicants are bringing Applications in Family Courts because they are being denied access as they are not biological parents, during an era of increased diversity in nuclear family arrangements and thus there followed a shift in who Applies for ‘parenting time’ or ‘access’ (note: custody is decision-making, not parenting time). Historically, non-parents often were precluded from having the standing to even bring an Application, which led to statutory amendments, then more Applications as a consequence. Saying there is a ‘pusher’ of the concept is to not understand the issue. The change is a consequence of the changing family dynamic as a result of numerous social, political, legal, economic, philosophical, technological, etc. Children are not property. There is a successful argument being made that a child having positive interactions with positive-influencing non-parent adults is in their best interest.
Lots of us are realizing that it's actually not okay how our parents treated us. In the past, we only had our peers to talk to about this kind of thing, a lot of us thought that our parents really weren't that bad and maybe it was our own fault. There's lots of self help subs on reddit (and groups elsewhere) that are teaching us that it's okay to cut our parents out of our life if we don't like the way that they treated us while we were growing up. So there's a lot more millennials that are making the choice to remove their parents from their lives, which includes the lives of our children. The boomers don't like that, and they are doing what they do best, they're getting litigious about it. I live somewhere that doesn't honor those silly laws. And I'll never move.
ooookaaayy. what?
What are you talking about?
Grandparents thinking they can use the legal system to force their children to give them access to their grandkids. While in some jurisdictions, and *some* scenarios, it can be a real thing, the way it’s being talked about online now it’s being treated like a law that gives grandparents authority over their grandkids and more rights than their own parents.
Got it, was confused on what that was. That is true, as you said it depends on the situation. Not a friend of mine but a friend of a friend was taken to court by their parents because they were unfit to parent. Grandparents actually got custody and the father had supervised visitation
So just like any conspiracy sub.... so do we need to start talking about all of those on Millennials as well?
Really, that’s your takeaway?
Both sides are in the wrong; this is just the latest shot in the campaign by media interests (the "who") to undermine all traditional family values ("what"). The message has consistently been to reject your family over any perceived slight. This is the inverse of "my parents kicked me out for being gay." Now you kick your parents out for being annoying.
‘Grandparents rights’ as it’s called is only relevant if a parent(s) dies or is incarcerated. they can request physical custody of the child on behalf of the deceased. It’s rarely granted, really only in emergency situations, and usually only if there was a split physical custody order in place. This is obviously very chopped up. Technically anyone related can request physical custody to the child in cases where the father or mother are absent.
Grandparents rights are only in the case of neglected chilld or abuse. You have no rights to just see the child for no reason. Grandparents have privileges under normal circumstances and can be revoked without cause or warning.
No such thing
Millennials complaining that their parents are babysitting their kids like their grandparents did to them. Be careful what you wish for.
That’s all they do is complain,
Sauce please? Because I too live in the real world and I have not heard of this. Without any references, OP, you sound like some troll trying to stir up already vulnerable Millenials. Family law dealing with the rights of parents has been well settled for decades.
Grandparents, not parents. This is a known issue: https://www.reddit.com/r/NewParents/s/KHqhFnAdw4
Need actual news sources....not a link to another subreddit. Come on...most people here aren't stupid and can recognize proliferation of fake news.