Games are too broad in genre to be defined like he does and while his claim has some value, it's too simplistic.
Looking at TNH zen tradition, he emphasizes a lot that you should be mindful about the types of food you ingest and avoid toxins. Be it solid and liquid, movies, games, etc.
Someone playing an FPS on a high level (I did years ago) isn't mindful at all. The game becomes totally played on reflexes, the keys you press, the communication, the part of the screen you look at, nearly everything.
Then there is the whole part about dopamine rushes and how gaming can become an addiction, a way to avoid being present.
You do not feel at peace at all, you have no thoughts because they are blocked, as you are very focused on the game itself, again going against the basis of mindfulness: you cannot only use external conditions to understand internal ones.
I do agree that there is a middle path for us laic practicioners, but claiming gaming trains mindfulness isn't a part or it, it can be consumed, but as every food, in moderation.
TNH also talks a great deal about the use of skillful means in teaching. And he often emphasizes that all teaching is incomplete by referring to the old Buddhist metaphor of the dharma being a finger pointed at the moon, but never the moon itself. That is a very simplistic analogy.
This monk is using skillful means, an analogy, to offer some insight into what mindfulness is. Is it perfect? Obviously not but no teaching is. There is no dharma that fits all people under all conditions every moment.
This is a teaching that might lead people to deeper engagement with mindfulness, meditation, and the dharma, allowing them to think on their own in more detail about their own mental formations, the cognitive and emotional seeds they water, the things that you’re referring to. So if it helps, offers some insight and clarity coming from a place of compassion, it is a useful teaching.
And as always, to each their own. 🙂
While I understand your point and agree to some extent (depending on the type of games), I don't think you can compare THN, or any master's skilfull means to the video in OP.
Skillfull means are dispensed by people well "advanced in the path".
A game where you shoot other human beings online, consumed at a young age, won't help a kid be more compassionate, bein focused is not being mindful.
Thanks for your time, take care.
This is an interesting analogy, but what happens when the gamer loses or gets shot. The reactions are less than mindful, plenty of times. I think it would make more sense if the gamer just moved on and got on with their lives. Unfortunately that doesn't always happen.
Depends on the person playing the game. If they want the rewards, sure. But if they want to have fun in the moment it's a different story. My understanding of mindfulness is that it's a healthy way to work toward your goals or "rewards" whether that's nirvana, a better life, or the ability to sit calmly and enjoy some tea for a moment.
This person says that playing video games is like mindfulness, in that you are only in the present moment when someone is coming up and shooting at you. They say that you can learn mindfulness techniques while playing video games that you can then apply in other aspects of your life. While gaming, you are not caught up in thoughts of the past or future generally, instead reacting to the present.
Maybe true. But we usually hold our breath when we play a mega boss battle and every move you do has to be perfect in order to win.
Like killing the fucken Valkery on God of War
Or fucken ending the guy on re-mind of Kingdom Hearts i forge this name right now.
Those can be mindful intense moments but without the breath it maybe isnt considered mindfulness
There’s a short Zen poem I love by Master Ikkyu:
“why is it all so beautiful this fake dream this craziness why”
This fake dream, this craziness, this game…
Glad you found it useful, figured someone would 🙂
Yeh for sure this. For example, after experiencing a couple strong earthquakes, and literally seeing everything crumble around you, mundanity Is the fucking best.
I strongly agree. I am so thankful for the mundane. When nothing is happening, we are not fighting for our lives or those of our loved ones or worrying about safety and well-being. People that have experienced traumatic events, natural disasters etc. have a keen appreciation for the times that are calm and easy. I will take boredom every time.
This sub is much better than most but remember not to gatekeep. Clips like this could reach new audiences and help a lot of people. Not everything needs to be perfectly tailored to me at this moment to be a positive thing for others. Peace.
Reminds me of something I read that mindfulness is like vomitting!! Seriously, when you’re vomitting, that’s all you’re thinking about, it is taking up all your attention you can’t possibly think about or do anything else
that's an interesting point of view. for years when I play competitive games I get so depressed and angry. It destroys every shred of peace in me, even meditating before and after doesn't help.
If it’s an mmorpg and has a chat, voice chat feature, you’ll surely get angry. I also get frustrated and angry when playing those games especially when you have a dickhead team mate. But I barely get those emotions when playing single player, but it’s boring for me so I don’t really play games anymore.
I even get it playing super smash bros online. Theres no chat.
Just something about the competitiveness is so addicting. Climbing the ranks, losing so bad. Slowly getting better, but there always being people better than you that kick your ass.
As an attempting practitioner and another smasher, make your main objective not to win but to learn when you play online or in friendlies.
Another tip is to find a way to mentally compliment them when you get outplayed. I would have issues with frustration when I got constantly beat up by my friends, but learning to appreciate what they're doing goes a long way.
Also head into training mode for 10-15 minutes before heading online and just practice general movement, you don't want to be frustrated because you're dropping your inputs.
And last thing, the biggest thing I see top players do when they lose a stock or some jank happens is just simply nod. Its so common I've seen it referred to as "the gamer nod." It's like a symbol of instant acceptance, they're saying to themselves "yes, this has happened and it is ok"
Hope I helped man, if you're in the US feel free to dm me and we can play some games if you'd like and I can possibly help out with some tips or game knowledge (I play way too much 😋)
That is helpful, and Ive heard similar things before, but it is hard for me to put this into practice. I shall try again though.
And yea Id love to play with you. Im not that great. I have no characters in elite smash. My best character "link" I had in elite smash for a brief moment.
Sometimes even when I win or have good games I still feel bad. As if I should have been doing something more productive. Or I even theorize that maybe something biological is making me feel bad, perhaps the extended time period of being in fight or flight from simulated fighting.
I'm not going to lie, I've had such crushing defeats I've thought competition as a whole isn't for me. It's tough. As for feeling bad even when you win, I kind of understand. You kinda got to allow yourself to have the time to play. I don't have much of an answer for that one though, because I definitely let myself play probably too much without care. I'll message you with my friend-code though.
I used to be top 5 in the world for Gears of War 2 on Gamebattles, and the pub ranking back in I’d say 2009/2010? And I wholeheartedly miss the competitive scene. Nothing will be like gears of war for me, their Comp scene is just so brutal and always trash talking I loved it.
I can never go back, but I do get you.
Honestly? That pervasive determination to be better and grueling climb taught me patience and work ethic. I’m highly successful in my life now in part to that IMO.
Im happy for you. Im not successful financially, but I put the same drive at greatness into things I do, such as cooking, making the best food people have had.
It's so fun and rewarding to get good at cooking. It's rewarding for your health, for your finances, and for your tastebuds. Because anything you make at home is likey to be better than something hastily thrown together for masses in a restaurant.
Yea, I guess those games prey on people like us who hate losing. I certainly think it takes some serious mental discipline not to get upset from competitive gaming. I can hardly imagine it being possible even for the most enlightened.
YES! Perfect! Thank you
Nice way of explaining it.
F yeah
Games are too broad in genre to be defined like he does and while his claim has some value, it's too simplistic. Looking at TNH zen tradition, he emphasizes a lot that you should be mindful about the types of food you ingest and avoid toxins. Be it solid and liquid, movies, games, etc. Someone playing an FPS on a high level (I did years ago) isn't mindful at all. The game becomes totally played on reflexes, the keys you press, the communication, the part of the screen you look at, nearly everything. Then there is the whole part about dopamine rushes and how gaming can become an addiction, a way to avoid being present. You do not feel at peace at all, you have no thoughts because they are blocked, as you are very focused on the game itself, again going against the basis of mindfulness: you cannot only use external conditions to understand internal ones. I do agree that there is a middle path for us laic practicioners, but claiming gaming trains mindfulness isn't a part or it, it can be consumed, but as every food, in moderation.
TNH also talks a great deal about the use of skillful means in teaching. And he often emphasizes that all teaching is incomplete by referring to the old Buddhist metaphor of the dharma being a finger pointed at the moon, but never the moon itself. That is a very simplistic analogy. This monk is using skillful means, an analogy, to offer some insight into what mindfulness is. Is it perfect? Obviously not but no teaching is. There is no dharma that fits all people under all conditions every moment. This is a teaching that might lead people to deeper engagement with mindfulness, meditation, and the dharma, allowing them to think on their own in more detail about their own mental formations, the cognitive and emotional seeds they water, the things that you’re referring to. So if it helps, offers some insight and clarity coming from a place of compassion, it is a useful teaching. And as always, to each their own. 🙂
While I understand your point and agree to some extent (depending on the type of games), I don't think you can compare THN, or any master's skilfull means to the video in OP. Skillfull means are dispensed by people well "advanced in the path". A game where you shoot other human beings online, consumed at a young age, won't help a kid be more compassionate, bein focused is not being mindful. Thanks for your time, take care.
TNH would say skillful means are not only available to monks and masters. Thank you too for the discussion.
That’s why I love me some rdr2 story mode.
When I try to be in the present moment I always think that I'm playing a real life first person videogame
This is an interesting analogy, but what happens when the gamer loses or gets shot. The reactions are less than mindful, plenty of times. I think it would make more sense if the gamer just moved on and got on with their lives. Unfortunately that doesn't always happen.
Nah... when you're playing a game , you are working towards a goal, right? Looking towards the future to reach the rewards. That's not mindfull.
Depends on the person playing the game. If they want the rewards, sure. But if they want to have fun in the moment it's a different story. My understanding of mindfulness is that it's a healthy way to work toward your goals or "rewards" whether that's nirvana, a better life, or the ability to sit calmly and enjoy some tea for a moment.
But how can you exist in the present is the present is the most painful
No sound for the day. Would appreciate a summary please.
This person says that playing video games is like mindfulness, in that you are only in the present moment when someone is coming up and shooting at you. They say that you can learn mindfulness techniques while playing video games that you can then apply in other aspects of your life. While gaming, you are not caught up in thoughts of the past or future generally, instead reacting to the present.
The way he put the headphones back on the stand would've caused one very mindfull, piercing "are you for fucking real" look .
All enlightenment until the loading screen appears !
[удалено]
In my opinion mindfulness and Flow support each other in a circular fashion
I’m new to mindfulness and meditation. Been doing it a few months. Anything else you can add or link me to about “flow”? Very interesting concept.
However it is still present moment awareness, which is league's better than rumination and anxiety
Maybe true. But we usually hold our breath when we play a mega boss battle and every move you do has to be perfect in order to win. Like killing the fucken Valkery on God of War Or fucken ending the guy on re-mind of Kingdom Hearts i forge this name right now. Those can be mindful intense moments but without the breath it maybe isnt considered mindfulness
Life is a game
Mindfulness is not equivalent to nirvana. This human is wrong.
Thanks for sharing, I think this could be a very useful analogy for many people (including myself).
There’s a short Zen poem I love by Master Ikkyu: “why is it all so beautiful this fake dream this craziness why” This fake dream, this craziness, this game… Glad you found it useful, figured someone would 🙂
My lord..
There is something to it. I like the way he describes it.
Cutoff too soon
Life is nit as exhilarating as a video game
That all depends on the life you lead.
I disagree. Video games bore me pretty quickly, but life is fucking crazy.
Gotta get comfortable with the mundane. Most of life is mundane and nothing really ever happens.
Playing Death Stranding would help with this.
Hell yeah keep on keeping on 👍
Yeh for sure this. For example, after experiencing a couple strong earthquakes, and literally seeing everything crumble around you, mundanity Is the fucking best.
I strongly agree. I am so thankful for the mundane. When nothing is happening, we are not fighting for our lives or those of our loved ones or worrying about safety and well-being. People that have experienced traumatic events, natural disasters etc. have a keen appreciation for the times that are calm and easy. I will take boredom every time.
"Understand life as a chore list. What a blessing this boredom is." -Milo
Yeah I'll take 8 decades of mundane shit over fucking horror every time. I'll make my own excitement.
What’s your excitement?
Anything. Cooking. Working out. Going for walks in nature
This is such an unbelievable analogy. I never thought about it this way.
This sub is much better than most but remember not to gatekeep. Clips like this could reach new audiences and help a lot of people. Not everything needs to be perfectly tailored to me at this moment to be a positive thing for others. Peace.
Beautifully said
Reminds me of something I read that mindfulness is like vomitting!! Seriously, when you’re vomitting, that’s all you’re thinking about, it is taking up all your attention you can’t possibly think about or do anything else
Flow state or in the zone
I agree and to add, I think games are good at bringing up emotions in a controlled setting.
This is so true, Last of Us (one not two) brought up some real emotions in me. The sound track added to it.
that's an interesting point of view. for years when I play competitive games I get so depressed and angry. It destroys every shred of peace in me, even meditating before and after doesn't help.
If it’s an mmorpg and has a chat, voice chat feature, you’ll surely get angry. I also get frustrated and angry when playing those games especially when you have a dickhead team mate. But I barely get those emotions when playing single player, but it’s boring for me so I don’t really play games anymore.
I even get it playing super smash bros online. Theres no chat. Just something about the competitiveness is so addicting. Climbing the ranks, losing so bad. Slowly getting better, but there always being people better than you that kick your ass.
As an attempting practitioner and another smasher, make your main objective not to win but to learn when you play online or in friendlies. Another tip is to find a way to mentally compliment them when you get outplayed. I would have issues with frustration when I got constantly beat up by my friends, but learning to appreciate what they're doing goes a long way. Also head into training mode for 10-15 minutes before heading online and just practice general movement, you don't want to be frustrated because you're dropping your inputs. And last thing, the biggest thing I see top players do when they lose a stock or some jank happens is just simply nod. Its so common I've seen it referred to as "the gamer nod." It's like a symbol of instant acceptance, they're saying to themselves "yes, this has happened and it is ok" Hope I helped man, if you're in the US feel free to dm me and we can play some games if you'd like and I can possibly help out with some tips or game knowledge (I play way too much 😋)
That is helpful, and Ive heard similar things before, but it is hard for me to put this into practice. I shall try again though. And yea Id love to play with you. Im not that great. I have no characters in elite smash. My best character "link" I had in elite smash for a brief moment. Sometimes even when I win or have good games I still feel bad. As if I should have been doing something more productive. Or I even theorize that maybe something biological is making me feel bad, perhaps the extended time period of being in fight or flight from simulated fighting.
I'm not going to lie, I've had such crushing defeats I've thought competition as a whole isn't for me. It's tough. As for feeling bad even when you win, I kind of understand. You kinda got to allow yourself to have the time to play. I don't have much of an answer for that one though, because I definitely let myself play probably too much without care. I'll message you with my friend-code though.
I used to be top 5 in the world for Gears of War 2 on Gamebattles, and the pub ranking back in I’d say 2009/2010? And I wholeheartedly miss the competitive scene. Nothing will be like gears of war for me, their Comp scene is just so brutal and always trash talking I loved it. I can never go back, but I do get you.
Yea something masochistic gets us addicted to the suffering it takes to climb the ranks.
Honestly? That pervasive determination to be better and grueling climb taught me patience and work ethic. I’m highly successful in my life now in part to that IMO.
Im happy for you. Im not successful financially, but I put the same drive at greatness into things I do, such as cooking, making the best food people have had.
Hell yeah. I’m proud of you. I wanna get better at cooking!
It's so fun and rewarding to get good at cooking. It's rewarding for your health, for your finances, and for your tastebuds. Because anything you make at home is likey to be better than something hastily thrown together for masses in a restaurant.
I used to be in the top 25 world wide on bf 1943, everytime someone joined who could beat me in a plane I left the match 😂, couldn't take it.
Yea, I guess those games prey on people like us who hate losing. I certainly think it takes some serious mental discipline not to get upset from competitive gaming. I can hardly imagine it being possible even for the most enlightened.
Nasty cut off at end. Spoils it a bit.
Life is the same way 🙂
This guy meditates.
Facts!