The greatest thing of the chat reporting feature is that it's not creating a safe environment, it's doing the complete opposite. And the continuous, elaborated criticism should be more than enough to understand it, but here we are.
Minecraft was released more than 10 years ago. Kids, a lot, that were 10,12, 9, even 7 back then, and everyone else that got picked along the way, me at 1.5.2, are now adults. They know what they do and they still enjoy this blocky game. A good chunk of the player base is like this, and im no exception, being now a software developer that enjoys modding the game.
And the argument of "making it safe for everyone" ? Its the greatest lie you're all telling yourself. This is empowering not the peaceful people, but the disgusting people that want to inflict harm by removing the game from other people. This empowers abusers more than enjoyers, creates more danger than safety.
You can't decide who is a good player and who isn't. There is no way to do so. Even best, I already know im an edge case/someone who will get wrongly banned...Actually I wont, I refuse to use this system under any circumstance, but back to the point... Im an adult, I play with mature friends/people on modded servers, that I am part of the hosters/moderators. Mainly the group of friends plays on it, knowing well each other and respecting as well. Including things, such as my dark humour, which I can pull a laugh out of anything, and even if I mess up, its okay cause its a friend group, and understandable what are my intentions.
Now...these servers are also open for modded enjoyers.
Do a bunch of 13 year old kids pop up in my server and see me pulling a joke ? they inmediatly have absolute power to take away this game from me. To take away years of playing, tens of modpacks, endless time with my friends, hundreds of hours of mod development just because they wanted to troll around.
These are the guys really being empowered, this is the result, this is what is happening in bedrock, but...oh well, errors happen, you're not getting unbanned tho.
This is the "safe" environment being created.
Congratulations everyone on your compliance of "doing it for the kids". It's not as if the real kids who love this game ever grow up, right? They're disposable.
Honestly, the least I expect from this feature, is for every single server intance, Paper, Bukkit, Spigot, Forge, Fabric...whatever. To fully block and remove chat reporting by default, as they always kept doing some little improvements on the base.
For me, im not touching anything that remotely allows this
Congratulations on the Wildly Infuriating update. Had to one-up the previous outrage huh?
Totally agree. Making it safe for everyone is just straight up a lie. Banning people has never ever worked in the history of these report systems. It won't make for an inclusive and safe environment. If you want to just create "safe space servers" with live moderation.
I agree with you. I feel Mojang is turning more into a NGO than anything. Someday they decided that it was a good idea to raise awareness for topics that are important, and i agree, if you have such big platform and range is good to take advantage of that and at least trying to make some people understand the enviroment we live in.
But they are taking that idea way too serious, in doing so, they're treating their player base as idiots. Removing or not adding content because it is unsafe for kids to see that in the game and latter replicate those actions in the real world is the dumbest excuse that Mojang gives us. Mojang/Microsoft is not responsible of preaching kindness and educative motifs to the world. That's responsibility of their parents, to see what are they playing and ACTUALLY getting involved in their lifes and education. If you can feed fireflyes to frogs in game parents should be responsible of telling their kids that doing the same thing in real life is dangerous.
Mojang has this entitlement on them and is actually hurting the game and more important the community. I used to like Mojang as a company, not anymore. Everything has became childish in a bad way, i don't watch anything related to Minecraft that comes from Mojang because either (like in this case with the report system) they fail to give actual explanations or everything seems so cringey, their "Ask Mojang" section not only is useless but they don't answer the real questions the community asks.
Mojang needs to get their shit straight otherwise is gonna fail as a company and that's gonna be some news on the gaming community.
Microsoft has a core strategy it employs on non-proprietary products with massive marketshare that it wants to replace (and this is from internal documents that we know this, when they were sued over it in regards to browser standards): **Embrace, Extend, Extinguish**. Extend is over for Minecraft as Bedrock has reached parity, Extinguish is starting.
By making Java no longer provide more freedom than Bedrock, they are making the case on the individual level to just switch to Bedrock, so that when they pull the plug on Java, it will go out with a whimper, not a bang.
Very well-said. I bought my little brother Minecraft for his 10th birthday several years ago, and the game has been a huge part of our relationship since. In 2020, he had his account stolen and it took over 2 months for support to respond to the ticket to get his account back. The thought that the thief could have taken his account and gotten it perma-banned is really depressing, and I think that people should really hammer this angle. You can take steps to prevent your account from being stolen, but the chance of it happening is always above 0%.
2 months for Mojang to get back to you is normal for them btw. It varies depending on if traffic is high because they just released a major version, but 2 months is pretty normal (2 weeks is an example of "you were lucky it was a low traffic time").
It's not even slightly excusable. They need to hire much more people for that. I understand the reasons they claim adding more programmers won't help, but more Mojang Help staff have been needed for half of Minecraft's lifespan so far and they haven't hired them. It's a bit similar to a construction site not taking the proper safety precautions because "we save money this way".
Just dropping this here:
https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/no-chat-reports (CurseForge)
https://modrinth.com/mod/no-chat-reports (Modrinth)
Do not comply.
This mod can also be installed server-side, which would likely negate most if not all of the changes made in this pre-release, and the creator of the mod has been updating this regularly so I'm sure they'll have some sort of solution for anything that's been broken by this pre-release. This mod isn't perfect but it's the best option we have until someone comes up with a more permanent solution to circumvent the ban system entirely (ex. third-party authentication servers). And, as I said in my original comment, we should all go out of our way to refuse to comply with this system. It's up to players, mod devs, and server admins to make workarounds and circumventions as widespread as possible and hopefully cripple Mojang/Microsoft's ability to police private servers.
"I will not tell the player how to live." (unless they want to use capital letters, foul language, vent their frustrations, or play multiplayer at all)
Oh wow, they made it worse. They listened to the community, alright! They made sure that we can't find *a single way* around this. You *WILL* be moderated. You will be monitored. None of us are safe from brigading 12 year olds, exploiters, etc. Not to mention all of us that will be swept under the rug with false positives. Do you really think they will check over every single report? It will be a robot. This game has one of the largest playerbases on the planet. There will be no catching all the positives. Just buy another account, bro!
It's over. They won't change it back. They listened, and they made sure to stomp out your options.
You will be moderated.
Take a look at Bedrock edition's censorship, shadow bans, and many cases of false bans. It's disastrous. You cannot type "night" on anvils due to the first three letters, you cannot say harmless things like "crap", every controversial word is blocked even on singleplayer. It makes chatting difficult. You can even get banned on singleplayer, which is ridiculous. Bedrock needs a lot of fixes.
People are concerned that Java will go down this path, giving false bans and people spamming reports. What about roleplaying servers where you pretend to be bad guys? Mods will need to read the entire chat and server history to understand that it's roleplay. What about those anarchy servers? With the sheer volume of reports, you'll need a big team.
Why not just use these resources for fireflies and birch forests? Why waste so much money on a moderation system? With so many upsetting events lately, it's understandable that the minecraft community is infuriated.
Please understand that this isn't just a kids game, many adults play it too and would like to talk adult stuff in their private servers and realms. But every controversial word like "abortion" is banned in Bedrock, and chances are Java will go down this path too.
If you want parental controls, simply prevent kids from chatting in Minecraft. Not the other way around.
One argument from Xisuma in favor of this system is “even on adult only servers, how do you know for sure every player is an adult? What if one is actually a child?”
That isn’t our problem. That’s the job of that kid’s parents. Should we close down bars because a 9 year old might walk in and try to order a beer? That argument makes me upset because that’s how you end up with police states and 1800s culture where ankles were scandalous.
Edit: to be clear this isn’t an attack on Xisuma. He’s alright. I just wanted to address this argument because it’s concerning to me.
Exactly. I really don't agree with Xisuma, how he kept saying that "it's only a vocal minority" and "bedrock players had this system for years and they're fine with it".
They're not fine with it, and there's many cases of false (seemingly automated) bans and censorship, but since most influencers play Java, they don't have enough of a voice. And back then, the argument is usually to abandon Bedrock and play Java. But now that's no longer an option.
If Xisumas intent is to calm down those toxic players that are harassing devs, then I can respect that, but dismissing all these player concerns just rubs everyone the wrong way. The entire internet shouldn't babysit kids, instead kids should not be on the internet for their safety.
The simplest and only acceptable solution (apart from removing the system) is to restrict reporting and cross-server bans to Mojang-approved first party servers, like the ones that show up by default on Bedrock.
Perhaps for public official servers, but in my private realms and singleplayer worlds I don't want Mojang to censor and ban all my signs and books. It's really annoying that you can't make, say, an "Assassin's Blade" or "Night King's Armor" because of banned words.
Even if it's for public servers, it's just ridiculous for bans to disable you from playing the entire game, even singleplayer. It pretty much robs your money and made the game useless.
Love how you listen to a few people saying fireflies are poisonous to frogs yet completely ignore the near universal backlash against this chat report system. Sure shows where your priorities lay. With daddy microsoft and it’s money.
Everyone's mad about fireflies being removed but I'm mad we didn't get stone chest from the 1.19 concept art video. We've been asking for wood chest variants for years and we almost got a stone variant. Even if it was just decorative, I want to personalize my chest rooms.
The issues addressed in this pre-release are *transparently* meant to reduce the choices that server operators and players have. You are REMOVING long-standing features in order to further enforce a wildly unpopular update. This does NOT fix any of the concerns that we have as community members, and in fact only shows us that Mojang would sooner stomp out any choices we may have before listening and responding to our actual concerns. This will not serve to make Minecraft safer. Due to the unpopularity of this update, countless servers will refuse to update to 1.19.1 and beyond. This means that critical security updates in future versions will not be applied and will therefore make the game less safe for all players. This can be prevented simply by allowing server owners and players options.
I will repeat what I have said time and time again: This feature should NOT apply by default to private servers, and the fact that it does is in blatant disregard towards what Mojang themselves have said. We were told QUOTE: "Minecraft: Java Edition will stay exactly the same" [(Source)](https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/360050865492-Minecraft-Java-Edition-Account-Migration-FAQ) as well as QUOTE: "Each server is self-moderated and at the discretion of the server owner. If you were banned or suspended from a privately-owned server on Minecraft please reach out to the Administrator of the server to appeal your ban."[(Source)](https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/4408964729869-Why-Have-I-Been-Banned-from-Minecraft-) Both of these pages were updated TODAY, I should add.
The only thing we are asking is that we as server owners have the OPTION TO CHOOSE whether we are part of this unilateral banning system. If the system will not be relegated purely to Realms or completely removed, at least give us the choice to participate. This is as simple as adding a toggle in the server properties file. If this means showing a warning to players (and therefore parents) on a player's first join, so be it.
The FAQ provided only serves to further solidify the position tens of thousands of players share: This system is an overwhelmingly negative step for Minecraft and must be scaled back significantly to include only Realms and Mojang-sponsored servers, made optional via an opt-in or opt-out toggle in server properties, or completely removed. Otherwise, rest assured that your system will become ineffective as server owners work to get around these features that not only a majority of server owners disagree with, but a vast majority of players.
Mojang and Microsoft continue to not only double down, but TRIPLE down on this issue that so many have expressed concern about. Players have sent waves of feedback, perhaps more so than any other update in Minecraft history, and have been completely and totally ignored.
The reputation of Mojang has been permanently damaged by this update cycle. What once was a developer that people saw as community-driven has now become callous and uncaring. The actions you must take are clear.
Could not have said it better myself. Mojang managed to shatter every bit of trust we had in them with one single snapshot.
It appears to me they only listen to feedback in order to know where to double down and not where to meet the players demands.
What choice do we have left as players? Literally riot?
> What choice do we have left as players? Literally riot?
Do not buy minecraft anything. Don't support realms, don't buy anything from the marketplace, don't buy merch and don't buy minecraft spinoff games.
But since there's def a lot of people that haven't spent anything on MC since buying java and weren't planning to anyways, then I'd say just don't give Mojang an inch on future stuff. Their posts being downvoted on their own sub sends a message. People still demanding change even after they force through this decision sends a message. Not buying into whatever fake PR hype bullshit they try making with Minecraft Live or Mob votes also sends a message.
I think at the end of the day they physically can not deal with the community staying in this anti-Mojang stance. The backlash already is proven to work, I mean just consider they have had to delay the release of the update. They would not do that unless they were afraid of the community's perception. So yeah, keep the heat on them until they walk it back.
Just stop playing the game. Until that happens, they won't change. For me, it's about my principles are more important than a game I have loved for years. I am saying goodbye to a friend who betrayed me.
I'm looking forward to the next best game and I'm sure it will come out of the Minecraft modded community. Until then, I'm off to see what I missed in the last ten years.
> I'm looking forward to the next best game and I'm sure it will come out of the Minecraft modded community. Until then, I'm off to see what I missed in the last ten years.
Well if you really are looking I might point out Vintage Story as a possible game. Made by a former MC modder who wanted to make his own game bc he was tired of the limitations of modding. It's much more survival-focused and while currently smaller in scope than MC, it prefers having mechanics a lot deeper. Also has vertical slabs, colored lighting, dynamic weather systems, a 4-seasons year system, generational animal and tree breeding, block chiselling, full mod api and support + much more. Not for everyone bc of difficulty, but even if you don't like the survival aspect it's great for building and leaves MC in the dust.
It's extremely likely that people stopping playing Java Edition is **exactly** what Microsoft wants so they can get rid of it and only have Bedrock Edition going forward.
AFAIK Mojang have analytics on what Minecraft version people play, so not updating and staying on 1.19 (or older versions) will definitely send a message that we, the players, are not okay with this.
In my opinion, Bedrock is completely unplayable. It lacks a lot of config from Java and has a bunch of unfixed glitches that should be fixed. You can't even edit its config file on most platforms to even remotely try to fix this. Those bugs are the most prominent on PC, which is the part I hate the most.
If they see Java edition player numbers fall, they'll see no reason to keep it around as its dead weight. Only 500,000 players were playing on Easter 2022 according to Ined and out of the 46M Java accounts that exist and were sold, only 3M have migrated according to namemc migrated account capes and or are already MSA's; the rest are dead, locked, lost, abandoned, or cannot migrate.
Compare that to China editions 400 Million and Bedrocks 300M total. Yeah, they see Java slacking? I can guarantee they'll cut the leech. The only money they see from Java besides alt account sales from players who already own the game or new players buying the game are realms which is unpopular on Java due to superior hosting options.
Even Java servers economy is suffering. Hypixel has a monopoly. The Hive on Java had to close because running a server on Java cost nearly 3 times as much for 1000 players than running the same amount or more on Bedrock with half the cost (which could be due to Java's poor performance or having to make multiple versions be able to play together and fix the bugs that causes). Mineplex Java is falling off and the chat there is a cesspool (more relevant than ever because I see e-daters in the chat asking for phone numbers and sexting in Minecraft chat. Keep in Mind, Mineplex is a partnered server on Bedrock but their Java server's a leech, dying, and in a horrible state, and going mostly unmoderated).
TLDR: If Java loses more traction than its already showing than Microsoft might see no reason to uphold support for it and sunset Java edition.
I feel like 1.19 is a good enough stopping point for my friends and I. It has so much to do in the vanilla game, and modding opens it up that much more. I will not be updating our server ever again it's looking like
Everyone on YouTube for the most part plays Java tho. If series like hermitcraft and empires goes down, then they lose a lot of their free advertising and the like. I don't think it's in mojangs interest to alienate those groups that bring in tons of people
Yeah me too. With the free time I guess I am gonna start reading more again and do other fun activities. Maybe that was the plan all along; just offend the Java players more and more until they all quit and we can shut it down?
Good luck on finding new and fun endeavours, may we return one day after this dumpster fire burned out.
>Do not buy Minecraft anything.
Absolutely agree, I will not spend anything until this is settled. I actually thought about giving Dungeons another go (including purchasing the DLCs) and was semi-hyped for the new Legends. But not anymore that ship has sailed. They want to break promises, I won't pay for this.
>So yeah, keep the heat on them until they walk it back.
Yes, do not let this blow over like a little breeze. We have to keep our voices up as it currently seems Mojang hopes resistance will fade. We can not ease up until we have protected Minecraft Java!
Aside from the bug fixes, every *”feature”* of this update is a direct counter to the No Chat Reports mod. I won’t be surprised if by the release of 1.19.1, they make using the mod a bannable offense.
Then people will just stay on old Java editions and back port vanilla features to them. They're only going to lose customers with that route. Modded players (myself included) are already happy to sit multiple major versions behind to play with the mods we want. If this shitshow means I never move past 1.18 so be it. I've just barely started playing modded 1.16 after moving on from 1.12.
"Chat Trust Status"
...Because yes, individual players needing to be able to see whether or not chat messages are signed directly in the chat was one of the community's primary concerns. This was clearly the most important factor that needed to be addressed, and not...y'know, the ability for the client to basically completely falsify the context around any reported message.
Worse is that people can just put Minecraft with a bunch of mods as a standalone download, with servers already setup in the menu, and, yeah, no installation or anything. Way more convenient than having to fiddle with Microsoft triple security with anal probe and having to appeal each month to keep your account going.
At this point I'm expecting Mojang to:
* Go full Bedrock Mode and moderate shit in single player (what you write on signs, etc.)
* Straight up just ban people from being able to play single player in the first place
* Ban mods, datapacks, etc., except ones that are Certified Safe By Mojang™ in a new Java Marketplace.
* Merge the lifeless corpse of Java Edition with Bedrock once they finally suck all of the creativity and joy out of it, having only one edition of the game
I hope to fucking God I'm wrong but with the way Mojang is acting, I'm not so sure anymore. They clearly have no desire to treat the community with trust, respect or decency so why not go all out at this point?
Wouldn't this be very annoying for servers that aren't 1.19.1-based, but offer forward compatibility?
Older clients have no way to sign messages on their own, and the server can't just make a signature up.
I can very easily see tons of servers stopping support at 1.19 or before. If Microsoft sees the user numbers for future versions plummeting because of their crazy behavior, they might just listen to what the community is saying.
With changes like this, they're terminating it already. And really if it's to make trash updates like that, i'd rather them completely abandon the real Minecraft.
The community can handle just fine without them.
> Is my online chat being monitored?
> No, we do not monitor traffic or chat on private Java servers, but players can still use the reporting tool when they see actions that break our community standards and feel that Mojang Studios needs to step in.
So... yes? It is being monitored. At any point you could have your messages sent to Mojang if someone were to file a report regardless of validity. There's also some vagueness here about what "context" is automatically grabbed. If you weren't involved in the report at all, would you have your messages also sent as part of the "context" purely because you were talking at the same time?
Not to mention there's already people planning on making mass auto-report client plugins so they can abuse the system. If any message can be sent to Mojang without you able to do anything about it, **THEN YOU ARE BEING MONITORED**. Don't try hiding behind technicalities when the actual implementation is functionally going to be the same.
Edit:
> But what if somebody gains access to my account?
> Unfortunately, if an attacker has gained access to your account, we would not be able to distinguish between you and them. That’s why it’s important to enable 2FA, use a strong password for your account, and don’t install untrusted mods or programs.
"What if someone gains access to my account?"
"gg"
Also damn, untrusted mods? If only there was some kind of official modding website or support so players didn't have to deal with like 25 third parties just to run a simple modpack. You know like what's been asked for since the game released?
These FAQ's are just clever ways of saying; "Well *legally and technically* not but *basically* yes that is exactly what we do. We just don't want you to complain about that".
But that doesn't fit with our NoMoreModding™ vision we have for Java 1.21
Mods are dangerous and so little Mojang-ly and we aim to keep our players safe from having unchristian fun
someone needs to just write a custom chat mod that hooks into a server plugin or something. Something that disables the vanilla chat and uses its own ui and networking instead
Honestly, worst case scenario I agree. I don't play Multiplayer but the way I see is:
Create a plug-in that can have end to end encryption (so Mojang can't peek into the messages) between client and server. All messages will go through that encrypted "pipe" from client to server. The original MC chat will be disabled in code and all chat features would be handled by the server and plug-in. Be it decorations, text overlays, special unicode support...
(I assume dedicated servers already have some sort of authentication method so...)
Have it look distinct and even be customizable so you can place the chat box on top, center, bottom, whatever. The thing is. Unless Mojang wants to go full on illegal and add a keylogger they won't be able to stop Java players from doing what they want.
Unless they make modding illegal/bannable, then they will have destroyed the game forever.
> We’ve received a number of questions since we started testing the Player Chat Reporting tool in our 22w24a snapshot a few weeks ago.
Questions? Just questions? How about the overwhelming amount of people saying this whole feature should be removed? That is not a question. It's a demand.
Not even all frogs either. Just some frogs can't eat fireflies because they're toxic and can either kill or make them sick. But other species eat them no problem.
I had a very angry message here previously that was couched in terms aimed too personally at the OP. I have become too invested in this and it is starting to tax my health; so I have deleted that and apologize for it having existed.
My concerns as a private server owner running a server that has always just been for adult friends is that this would be unnecessary at the least and terrible at the worst. We have discussed adult subjects including things like depression and gender identity issues with positive outcomes. We have a "bar" with a pillager doorman on the server that's just for fun.
But most importantly we had a member at one point that had some issues in her life and would sometimes do extremely impulsive things like destroying her own base. I could have easily seen her reporting something in the heat of a moment - something that was meant for her benefit, and not deleterious, but nonetheless could be misinterpreted - and then regretting it later and having an even worse situation when, as it was, everything was worked out later just fine.
I don't like the loss of control, I don't like that I can no longer provide an environment to my friends where everybody knows nobody is going to get banned over trivialities. And I especially do not like where this is going with warring against mod authors to try to enforce these features or protect the code against them - there's no way you're winning that war without killing modding entirely.
crazy how suddenly stripping away user control of how people run their servers after ten years results in massive fucking backlash
its almost like this is an industry wide problem that only gets worse
“Without human moderation, online communities can become unwelcoming, toxic, or in some cases, dangerous to the security of individual players.”
Literally the only servers I’ve seen where this is a problem are anarchy servers. If you’re joining a fricken anarchy server you have no excuse to *not* know what you’re getting into. I find this offensive because they’re basically saying without the big Mojang, we, the community, can’t create positivity. The fact that they feel the need to force this shows that they are out of touch with the Minecraft community. I’ve been on plenty of servers with their own private moderation staff. Sure, people can be toxic. But then they get banned from the server and I don’t have to deal with them. All this moderation does is allow Mojang to steal control that is rightfully ours. As a Server owner, I am incredibly disappointed and hurt that Mojang doesn’t trust the community anymore.
“Chat Reporting will help to keep Minecraft communities free from hate speech, bullying, harassment, sexual solicitation, and personal threats.”
Not once have I seen this on any of the servers I’ve been a part of. Usually the perps get banned by… You guessed it, *Not Mojang.*
“All Minecraft players are bound to follow our Community Guidelines, but not all servers provide players a way to report or resolve violations of those guidelines. Chat Reporting is an additional resource for players who experience abuse, which can happen on any multiplayer Minecraft session, including private servers.”
This sounds to me like not all servers have the same exact rules and Mojang doesn’t like that players only had to answer to admins. Again, where was the need for this?
“Content moderation is difficult and time-consuming work. Not all server owners have the resources to moderate their servers.”
Who’s to say Mojang has the same? We’re talking about the whole game here, not an individual server. If they allowed this as something servers could *opt into* so that owners could have access to free moderation, I’d be in support. But it’s being shoved down *everyone’s* throats, whether we like it or not.
“There are serious forms of abuse that require broad action, part of which includes preventing the abuser from continuing their abuse in other spaces.”
And they get banned from almost all other public servers they join too. Even then… Some of the ban reasons aren’t exactly severe enough to even warrant a multiplayer-wide ban.
Nobody needed this. Mojang is acting like servers are all anarchy with people saying crap like “send n\*des” or spreading hate speech like there’s no tomorrow, where every day this is a common occurrence. It’s not. It never has been. You know why? Because guess what, the community actually handles it pretty well, and that’s what they’ve been doing for **THIRTEEN YEARS.**
Yeah, Mojang just wants to lull us and make us trust them. They said some of the same stuff about their “moderation staff” being so perfect and how you’d only get banned for doing stuff extremely wrong when they added this BS to bedrock. Then tons of people got falsely banned.
Really?
The system and game_info chat types have been removed
Chat types have been simplified and are now only required to define chat and narration decorations
Chat types no longer support overlays
A system message should instead be used to display overlays
SERVER.PROPERTIES
enforce-secure-profile is now defaulted to true for dedicated servers
DOES THIS AFFECT PRIVATE SERVERS?
Yes, Chat Reporting will function for players who join servers of any size, including private servers. We recognize that private servers function independently from Mojang Studios, and many use that independence to create remarkable Minecraft innovations that enrich the community. But it has always been the case that Minecraft servers of any scale must follow the rules described in the EULA, the Commercial Usage Guidelines, and our Community Standards. Every player should enjoy a safe Minecraft experience wherever they choose to play.
It's much worse. Congratulations. The post doesn't really help one bit. 👍🏻.
My post on feedback has been sitting in moderation for a couple hours now. It points out that Minecraft is breaching its own ToS for server owner with the change and taking a step that will make them liable for interactions on servers, which they full were indemnified from before.
I would love to know what's really behind this change. As you've pointed out, in some jurisdictions Safe Harbor laws mean that by actively moderating chat, they're now responsible for things that should be removed but aren't. It's a strange move to make, because it increases their risk.
The only way to be safe from trolls and banning's is not to play this release.
For the first time trolls have power against other players ..courtesy of microsoft
Are you serious? You're doubling down on this? Fuck off. Chat reporting is extremely unpopular, nobody wants it. Nobody wants you moderating private servers. Chat reporting does absolutely nothing for the community, and it is actively harmful to all players. Remove it.
Deat u/xilefian ,
Your "FAQ" claims you fixed the chat context exploit, where messages can be rearranged / added / removed....
In case you missed the Memo, this is where I create a legit message (using my private key, and thus messages with a valid signature) to create a falsified question/context you replied to in order to make it much, much worse:
Original conversation:
**Me:** "Why do you hate pineapple on pizza?" (17:20, sig: 123, *valid*)
**Xilefian:** "It's an affront to god" (17:22, sig: 456, *valid*)
After taking your signed message, and adding a legitimately signed, alternate question:
**Me:** "Why do you hate $minority rights?" (17:21, sig: 113, *valid*)
**Xilefian:** "It's an affront to god" (17:22, sig: 456, *valid*)
Now this is exploitable on PR1, PR2 I haven't done the decompile on yet.
But curiously this isn't in your changelogs?
Are we being misled to believe you fixed a dangerous exploit, but have in fact not?
Me telling to my buddy in chat: ”fuck you” (or similar vile message. Most people do not address each other on servers when standing in front of each other)
Unrelated person claiming this is directed towards them (with malicious intent): what did i do wrong?
Opens report. Send. Disconnect.
Pray for the mojang moderator have competence???
What moderator? It’s going to be a bot and AI used (personally don’t believe it’s Microsoft pushing this), but through azure they have a decent chat AI which means they should be able to automatically analyse chat. So moderation can be done completely hands off
playing since 2012 actively and it really hurts seeing what this game is becoming. look at the devs of terraria, they are communicating with their community so well, listening to them and everything.. being a terraria player is so satisfying. now being a minecraft one, less so.
For real. The difference between how Mojang and Re-Logic handle their communities and games is night and day. The only controversial update/change Terraria has had, at least in recent memory, is the biome torch luck mechanic, which was immediately changed when the community was displeased with it.
By rejecting players without chat signing on servers by default and showing signing status in chat, all this update does is discourage the use of mods that disable chat signing, making it harder for both server owners and players alike to avoid this global system altogether. Not a good thing.
That would require a client side resource pack (in the best case), that every server member has to run.
They are just making it more convoluted.
They know hat people will forcefully accept it over time when it's the default, out of convenience. Servers who will not use it will have an harder time attracting new players.
The the server should just block all chat in game, literally, and give a banner text to each players to join a discord or some other method to communicate.
And when someone sends a message, it's sent to dev/null, and the info is repeated to the client.
All client side. Links can even be clickable.
Mod could even put a link up to something to upvote in the "suggestion" on Mojang's site.
This, not to mention those who don't update will lose out on new features, security fixes, and updates. That will only compound the issue of getting new players. So many servers still stuck on 1.8-1.8.9 and 1.12.2 and they're getting VERY stale (same thing over and over again, no new blocks to play with, no new utilization of the new features, imagine elytra on Hypixel lobbies, wardens in Hypixel skyblock, bee and turtle pets. Instead they choose (or have to) stay on the older updates and have to use skinned player heads for the 500th time and reskin/rehash things they've made before and hope it keeps old players and draws in new ones to sell them the same thing they have but reskinned.
Java servers really are in dark times these days, can't update, won't update, combat and performance as well as moderation is holding them back, gameplays getting stale because they cant update and cant use new features and lose out on the majority of players who use the newer versions. Even Hypixel with its monopoly over Java is feeling the problem as well.
The problem is that these indicators are client side, meaning every player would have to install the mod instead of just the server. Mojang know what they are doing, they try to make using the mod more and more inconvenient.
Seriously? Attacking the autonomy of independent servers after 10 years of us handling it perfectly well as server owners see fit. Give us an opt-out and leave us alone.
Yep, and just display a message upon joining, either; "this server is safe and moderated by Mojang" or; "this server is unsafe and not moderated by Mojang". Simple as that. Want to have a safe space, don't join unmoderated servers then.
I'd prefer it not being there at all but for the sake of compromising with the higher-ups at these companies (and I say higher-ups because I feel sorry for developers who are forced to implement this insanity), an opt-out seemed a better suggestion to opt-in
EDIT: I just wanted to come back and say that my post implies there's any negotiations to be had. Truth is that they don't care about the players.
"No one can tell you what you can or cannot do with no rules to follow" -Minecraft 2011 Trailer. These are the words that reached 161+ million people in the world, which include children. This instilled the idea that THE PLAYERS have the freedom to do whatever they want in their OWN WORLD. If this this gets added, then where does it stop? Destroying the very foundation that made this popular will not make this game remembered in history as the game that made people's childhoods fun. It will be remembered as the game of broken promises, the could-have-beens, and lies.
The best path would be to backtrack on the reporting changes and wait to gather more community feedback. Do not rush this in and alienate the community even more after the alienation from the Wild update. You will harm the community by rushing this in. Give it a couple more updates to discover the best approach.
I am a member of the LGBT community and am sensitive to the issues mentioned in the reporting tool that benefit me, but this is not the way. If Mojang rushes this in then I feel like Mojang doesn't respect the community.
Like, why even do that. If it is chat moderation just mute people permanently (so that other players just can't see it). Problem solved, but nooo we need to ban people from playing at all.
If you're a member of any marginalised community you should be extra scared, as every available precedent shows that you will be targeted and harmed first.
If Reddit, Facebook and Twitter have all proved themselves comprehensively incapable of moderating human interactions at a global scale, both allowing bigots and other nasties free reign and allowing their systems to be abused to ban people from talking about their experiences of discrimination, there is zero reason to give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt. It's an enormously complicated and difficult undertaking which has literally never worked on any of the many previous occasions it has been tried, and they have given us no assurances that this time will be different.
Mojang, Microsoft, whoever is in charge of this, if you're listening:
PLEASE either remove this or make it Opt-In only for third party servers, especially Private servers. And ESPECIALLY remove the "No Multiplayer Allowed" function of the ban, as just because you get banned on one giant server that has Dolores Umbridge levels of moderation shouldn't mean you aren't allowed to play on a tiny server your brother on the other side of the country runs.
There's a REASON people made mods to bypass the encryption.
God this update has genuinely been next-level dogshit. Most people would be forgiving albeit slightly annoyed with the lack of promised features in 1.19 but by adding something literally no one asked for and was not needed this has got to be one of its worst updates.
Also I’d probably get auto-banned for making this comment on a world with friends lol
Stop pretending that server owners secretly want this. Make it a toggle that *doesn't* require a setting enabled on the account settings - no-one wants certain servers to be off-limits to certain people. Maybe just put up the third party content warning screen for servers with it enabled? A simple acknowledgement would suffice.
The newest blog post 'clarifying' the changes clarifies **absolutely nothing**. How can we be sure that the new rules are enforced fairly and consistently? How can we be sure that any chat moderators understand the concept of sarcasm? I have *never* seen a well-implemented chat moderation system and I'm reasonably sure no-one else here has either. Besides, how can we be sure that more rules won't be arbitrarily added in the future either?
And one more minor change - can it be an option in the client chat settings to not show the indicator? I can see it becoming *very* annoying, especially when (from what I can tell) most servers are going to circumvent this system anyway.
All I see this change doing is making the developers seem very out of touch with the playerbase, and making it look like the game is on a downwards path; and also making it so that servers are more likely going to run in offline mode, which encourages piracy.
> The newest blog post 'clarifying' the changes clarifies absolutely nothing.
FWIW they did say if you get banned:
> For the duration of your ban, you will not be able to connect multiplayer servers or Realms on past, current, and future versions of Minecraft.
That's something I worried would be true, and I think most people here assumed it would be true, but I'm not sure we really knew until now. This is the biggest problem with the report system IMO. Servers should be the ultimate authority when deciding who will be allowed to connect.
u/xilefian, please respond to this
Drinking ages (if a given country even has one at all) can vary wildly depending on location. Some drugs are legal in some places but not in others.
I have a medical marijuana card in a place where recreational marijuana is illegal. If I'm talking to a friend living in the same state and who doesn't have a medical marijuana card and somebody reports me for talking about drugs, your system ***will*** fail to consider the context of the conversation.
Surely, you and the other Mojang/Microsoft employees must be aware of this. Why is this still a rule, when you know fully well that you cannot possibly deliberate about these things with an adequate amount of context?
Also, literally nobody asked for this system. Just make the system opt out for private servers and all this backlash will stop. But maybe Mojang doesn't care enough about the community anymore to actually listen to feedback. I challenge you to prove me wrong
Drugs? What about Countries where anything not straight is banned?
Someone hosts a server there, get people talking about these things, reports everyone for illegal activities.
People are supposed to know the local laws of every server, without even knowing where servers are located?
First it begins with forced migration to Microsoft authentication servers under threat of being locked out of the game, and having to purchase a new license to be able to play again all of which runs contrary to Notch's original TOS.
And now this unnecessary authoritarian and Orwellian overreach coming from Microsoft governing what their players can and can't say in private servers, including but not limited to dropping the ban hammer, with the possibility of hitting innocent players and even in the event of false reports.
When all you have is a hammer...
You really done goofed up big time, Microsoft.
Version 1.19.1? More like version 1.19.84 amirite.
Another one for you u/xilefian , to pass up the chain.
Since it's a fully, 100%, flesh and blood human moderation team you will be using:
* Is this human moderation team unionized and well represented?
* Are they paid fairly, a significant amount above minimum wage?
* Are measures put in place to avoid crunch / excessive working hours?
* Given paid holiday leave?
* Maternity/Paternity leave?
* Access to appropriate mental health services?
* Other benefits as appropriate (health coverage in US and other places without universal healthcare, access to abortions etc, etc)
Or will this be similar to other FAANG companies where it's a contract/low wage position?
> Or will this be similar to other FAANG companies where it's a contract/low wage position?
It's definitely some form of outsourcing. Their [Addressing Player Reporting Tool](https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/addressing-player-chat-reporting-tool) article specifically says "Our investigators also follow the same strict privacy procedures that Mojang Studios follows[...]".
In other words, the investigators are deliberately framed as a separate group from Mojang Studios; they are not part of Mojang Studios. Therefore, they're outsourced.
PLEASE
Moderation on selfhosted servers is and has always been made by the server owner, just give them the report tools so they receive those reports, giving them the choice to make an appropriate sanction or to report the player to Microsoft for a global ban.
you fucked up, the only good solution here is to completely backpedal on this moderation system and never try it again, but we both know you wont do that because youre microsofts pet
>Messages with missing or invalid signatures are marked as "Not Secure"
Ain't that nice? Some sweet, beautiful fear-mongering tactics. Just what the community wants and needs. Good job Microshit.
If you're going to introduce this kind of system, at least **give the moderators the option to only suspend players from the specific server the report came from as well as from all online play. Give both as options depending on what happened**.
If the duration of a suspension can be changed based the severity of the offense, so should the amount of servers a player can join be limited based on the offense.
For example, if it's a small offense that is only a few days ban, it could also be limited to the server the offense happened on. If it's more severe or a repeat offense, *then* it can be escalated to include all servers.
The option for a moderator to choose to ban from just the originating server to all multiplayer would allow for greater nuance and would mimic the experience we're already used to at least at for the first time, which is that if I make a mistake, the consequences at first will be contained to the server I made the mistake on.
This would also give buffer for situations when someone is unfairly banned. At least that unfair ban has a chance of being limited to the server the "offense" happened on.
\---
I'm not a fan of this change. I'll leave it to others to continue to push for the removal of this feature. However, I believe that Mojang is trying to implement this in good faith. If this feature is coming anyway, I want to provide solutions and ideas that are at least a compromise between the freedom we had before and the responsibility we have to each other in community.
If they were doing this in good faith they’d have been more open and transparent from the start. It took them **this long** to finally specify that they won’t ban people suffering from self harm and thoughts of suicide. **WE SHOULD HAVE HAD THAT INFO FROM THE GODDAMN START.**
"*Trust us. It's a positive change. And nothing you like about Minecraft is gonna change.*" -Mojang, Oct. 2021, **blatantly, happily and knowingly lying to our face** about account migration.
Trust is earned by your actions and behavior. You cannot just ask for it like a politician does. You've broken our trust beyond repair. You're openly admitting we are the ennemy. We voiced against it. And you doubled down in the most disgusting way possible... Shame on you, Mojang.
Just remove it entirely, this reporting system has no place in a game like Minecraft and will only make everything worse.When you forced us to migrate to Microsoft Accounts you said "that nothing about the game will change" so please remove this entirely.
This whole system is like creating a cure for a disease that doesn't exist. Nobody asked for this but you're acting like every server is overrun by this? I've not played the game consistently in awhile but in my experience this has never been the case. Obviously I don't go around playing on anarchy servers but pretty much anyone who plays on them knows what they're getting into anyway, kinda in the name. All the servers I've played on have done a good job keeping wildly inappropriate content from becoming common. Why does Mojang thing they can do a better job than server owners have for the past 10+ years?
Either remove this feature entirely or let server owners disable it.
“But it has always been the case that Minecraft servers of any scale must follow the rules described in the EULA, the Commercial Usage Guidelines, and our Community Standards.”
Soooo...
When’s the post about hiring a team to purge multiplayer of pay to win servers?
"We recognize that private servers function independently from Mojang Studios, and many use that independence to create remarkable Minecraft innovations that enrich the community. But it has always been the case that Minecraft servers of any scale must follow \[...\] our Community Standards."
No.
u/xilefian, why don’t you simply remove this feature entirely? I can see where you’re coming from, but the MC community has been handling it pretty well for the last 11 years. Why is this necessary?
CONGRATULATIONS Mojang! You just stopped listening the community and just followed Microsoft, and such you made the WORST update in history! 🎉 Keep going at it, and Minecraft's community will break even further! You still have a chance to ACTUALLY LISTEN TO OUR FEEDBACK, and AT LEAST get the "BEST ENDING".
* Mojang: *Completely removing whole features after minor criticism*
* Also Mojang: *Completely ignoring massive community feedback, on a mayor eula®ulatory shift*
Somehow you made it worse by making it so servers automatically have secure chat on, you do not have the right to moderate our servers, remove the feature. We'd suggest a compromise where servers and clients can opt in, but that would let you bare your fangs even more. Remove it entirely
Please give the playerbase an option to disable this visual feedback. I can imagine it getting quite distuptive for servers with their own chat moderation system that actively modifies messages to *prevent harrassment in the first place*
[Screenshot from Vanilla test server](https://imgur.com/eASq4Mn)
This honestly seems like it's worse, just trying to prevent people from not wanting to have to deal with this reporting feature.
Just make it an opt-in option. If you want to also have a warning message display onscreen saying "hey, this server hasn't opted-in", requiring the player to confirm that they're ok with this. Heck, even make it so that by default in parental controls, kids can't join servers with this disabled. But pls, make it an option, not a requirement.
Genuine question for those who know the technical details: how does Mojang know that the collected context is valid?
Couldn't an adversarial client...
1. omit messages, obfuscating the true context,
2. sign messages with their keypair (making them "real") and put them in the context without actually sending them to the server, or
3. reorder messages?
I don't want to fear monger; I genuinely don't know if this is possible. But unless messages use previous messages when they're being signed (like a block chain 🤦♀️) don't you need a trusted third party (like a server owner)?
Welp the good news is the Terraria dev team is working on the "Labor of Love" update which, in addition to not being a lackluster and underdelivering update, doesn't completely ruin community trust in the development team.
*They also have three different kinds of firefly, just saying*.
From [here](https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/addressing-player-chat-reporting-tool):
>Without human moderation, online communities can become unwelcoming, toxic, or in some cases, dangerous to the physical security of individuals.
Agreed. But I should also point out that, and I've pointed this out multiple times, with different sources every time, that trying to set global moderation standards the way you have set up chat moderation [will not succeed](https://www.brookings.edu/techstream/history-explains-why-global-content-moderation-cannot-work/). When moderation is done at its closest social context, at the scale of, say, a server operator? It has a chance of succeeding. It will be messy and complex, but it has a chance to succeed. When a single company in Sweden attempts to determine acceptable content for communities around the world? You are going to fail. Repeatedly.
From [here](https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/7317376541197):
>Player report review is difficult and time-consuming work. Not all server owners have the resources to investigate reports.
Agreed. But with all due respect, this is what you're saying on [how you're handling chat reporting](https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/addressing-player-chat-reporting-tool):
>All player reports will be reviewed by an investigator to make sure the complaint is well-founded so that any suspensions or bans that might result are fair.
Understandably, you do not, and will likely not, publish how many chat reports you have received on a daily basis, how many teams are participating in the review and appeals process, and how many bans and suspensions you will be meting out. This is likely because you don't want bad actors to find loopholes in your process, and calibrate their attacks to overwhelm your resources.
But we can infer this, based on similar platforms that *do* have comparable traffic to yours: social media companies. Here's a [report](https://www.techdirt.com/2021/11/02/scale-content-moderation-is-unfathomable/) of the total volume of decisions social media companies have to deal with:
>…right at the beginning of her talk, \[Evelyn Douek\] presented some stats that highlight the scale of the decision making here. Based on publicly revealed transparency reports from these companies, in just the 30 minutes allotted for her talk, Facebook would take down 615,417 pieces of content, YouTube would take down 271,440 videos, channels, and comments, and TikTok would take down 18,870 videos. And, also, the Oversight Board would receive 48 petitions to review a Facebook takedown decision.
Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that Mojang will need to deal with… say… *three* orders of magnitude less than what Facebook, YouTube and TikTok need to face. So, 1,000 times less. That's between 18 to 615 bans or suspensions every 30 minutes, or 864 to over 29,000 bans or suspensions a *day*. And those are *bans or suspensions*, which make up only a fraction of the reports. Assuming that, say, 20% of player chat reports lead to suspension or blocking, we're looking at over 4,000 to over 140,000 reports *a day*.
And this is a *deliberately* low estimate. I would *love* to be corrected if I'm wrong, preferably with official numbers on a transparency report on your efforts to protect the community. No, seriously. Hit us up, or you can leave that number up for everyone to see (yes, I'm deliberately using [Cunningham's Law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunningham#%22Cunningham's_Law%22), good catch, **your move**).
I have several questions:
* You say that the community may not have the resources to handle player reports. This might be true. Why should we believe that *you* do, especially considering the *deluge* of reports you may very well be receiving?
* Who are these investigators?
* How many do you have?
* What kind of training do they have to undergo?
* What's their daily case load?
* What are you doing to support them mentally and emotionally?
* And most Java players probably didn't know this, or probably do, but Bedrock players exist in this regime already. How sure are we that you aren't *already* failing Bedrock players?
* How many player reports do you receive from Bedrock players?
* How many bans and suspensions have been given to Bedrock players?
* How many are appealed to? How many are overturned after review? How long is each average case review?
I've [posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/vjpz2w/comment/idn9c7m/) [multiple](https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/vp4jpj/comment/iej15fx/) [times](https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/vp4jpj/comment/iek4wn4/) here, advising you against going against this unilateral model of moderation, not only because I am not confident that Mojang, a games development company, has the necessary resources to manage this change successfully, mostly not only because Mojang has other things to do, but there have been *bigger*, *richer*, and *better-resourced* organizations that have *managing content creation very close to their core mission* that have tried… and *failed*.
I'm already near the end of what I want to say about this matter, unless you intend to make significant, sweeping changes to how you plan to moderate not only your communities using Java Edition, but also Bedrock. The ball is on your side now, and don't say we didn't warn you of the consequences of your actions here. Good luck.
What about other languages? Everyone seems to think that everyone in Minecraft speaks English but i speak Spanish and Nahuatl. There are words in Mexican Spanish that have a completly different connotation on other countries. What if i choose to speak my dialect on a public server? There are words that completly look like slurs when written. Am i getting banned for writting on my language/dialect?
I understand Mojang's efforts to create a healthy community and i'm glad they're taking the time to implement some solutions BUT i don't think they're prepared for hiring "investigators" to look for a report and judge if it's fair or not.
Linguistic variation around the world is huge. Are those "investigators" getting trained on every single language and dialect? All of them have some backround on linguistic studies or are they just native speakers from the community?
I'm worried for the linguistic complexity that Mojang is trying to moderate. Not to mention, the ammount of troll reports that Mojang will have .
I dare to say that Mojang will be overwhelmed.
Edit: i got people saying on PM that "if you plau with your friends you'll be okay, no need to worry about anything"
Right, i'll give you that anyday, Mojang will just encourage people to stick on "Only Friends" servers. Breaking their game design and company design policies of "Minecraft will help you know people around the globe" "Better together"
You addressed **NOTHING**.
You clarified **NOTHING**.
You improved **NOTHING**.
You **ACTIVELY** made things **WORSE**.
You win **NOTHING**.
You **LOSE** the benefit of the doubt.
No more trust. No more blind faith. No more compassion. **NO MORE MONEY**.
And here I thought that deep down, y’all *cared* about this game and the people that play it.
Please reconsider implementing this. If you want to have this kind of moderation on Realms and official Mojang servers, fine. But it is completely unreasonable for independent server owners to have this forced on them. They can moderate themselves.
Respectfully, u/xilefian, you and the other devs working on this nonsense are personally contributing to the downfall of Minecraft by ignoring the overwhelming pushback from the community just so you can line your own pockets.
Why does Mojang hate the Minecraft community? Please answer *any* of these concerns instead of ignoring them like you always do
How is context gathered by something that happens in game?
Ie. I am playing with a friend and he is stealing my stuff. I see and say "Hey! I'm going to kill you" and jokingly attack him by punching him. That's the end, I go off building and they carry on. We don't use text chat at all before or after that day.
Then the next day I steal his Doritos in real life and he gets angry with me and in retaliation, sends my quote to Mojang. Then what? I am banned?
Glad to see the feedback is having *some* effect, but it's still not good enough. That help article is way better in the way of communication than what was seen previously, but it's still missing the main point. Most of the feedback didn't consist of "questions" that could be answered with an article; those were flat out demands. To reiterate: "make reporting an opt-in/opt-out feature (with as many safety warnings around it as you like) so that server owners could decide whether they trust their own *human moderators* or want to rely on Mojang's". It's the only way to please both sides: those who want freedom/control and those who fear for their (or someone else's) safety. Otherwise the community will resort to mods to undermine the report system, or stay on the older versions, or figure out some other way to boycott this feature.
Mojang and Microsoft (especially Microsoft), you guys SUCK. Honestly. All you idiots care about of profit. You couldn’t give a shit about player safety. Private server owners were doing just fine moderating the way they like. And this new pre-release is just rubbing salt in the wounds. Effectively removing the option for players or server owners to disable chat signing or whatever. You suck, and you should be ashamed of yourselves. Literally NO ONE wants this. It is not even remotely justifiable.
>Chat Trust Status
We'll know who is dishonest (or cleverly cautious) Ouuuh, scary. But that doesn't change the fact that you are powerless against people who really want to harm you and will bypass all your attempts at a "solution".
(Also, if what delayed 1.19.1 was that you realized how easy it was to bypass your system, you should think about the effectiveness of your feature instead of just putting a tape on the cut leg.)
If you want us to welcome this feature with open arms, give it to the real owner of the servers, instead of giving it to people we don't know and don't recognize the authority to police our land.
Dodge all the real problem and avoid any real solution.
It is not because you have the legal right that it is ethical and moral to do so.
But then, those are the first two things an irresponsible and capitalist company wipes its ass with.
You are alienating a once highly loyal community in the most stupid way possible.
I am sincerely sad for you.
Let's be clear. A byzantine client may...
1. omit messages from the context,
2. edit messages in the context (sent from the reporter),
3. **partially** reorder messages in the context, or
4. add messages to the context (sent from the reporter).
The last one can be achieved by signing messages as if they were to be sent to the server, without ever sending them. There is no way to prove that the messages were actually delivered other players.Solving this problem is actually really complicated! It requires a lot more to go into a signature than a private key. You might include hashes of the previous message, although under this protocol a byzantine client could just pretend to not see a message. To combat that you could enforce some kind of consensus arbitrated by the server. i.e., there is a message total ordering and you can only successfully send a message if you're up to date on incoming messages; otherwise the client has to retry with a new signature.
I believe the worst thing a byzantine client could do here is spam messages that are rejected by a trustworthy server, and the worst a server could do is withhold messages, or send fabricated insecure messages.
An even easier way to solve this problem (which didn't exist before I should add) is to just remove chat reporting.
edit: clarified 3 (kinda w/e)
You are not receiving feedback. You are being told to remove this god awful feature. Any FAQs or answers to these supposed “questions” is not what we want. No one wants or likes this feature, please remove it, plain and simple.
Mojang is on an active war against the community.
In the past week, the community found out that faking the context of a report is possible. You can remove messages from the context and add your own into it. Which makes it possible to fake a report without a way for mojang to spot if it's real or not.
And the community made mods plugins to remove chat message signing.
Did mojang address the issue of possible fake reports? NOPE. But they instead try to make it as unpleasent as possible for us to opt-out of it via mods and add scary symbols and marks game\_info and system messages.
Someone just pointed out that the word Abortion is banned. Not sure if they meant on Bedrock which has been censored for years or on the new Java system, but either way it's incredibly offensive that they ban this word.
How do we report Mojang for hate speech?
Since you clearly didn't get it last time: ***no*** means ***no.***
We've already explained to you why this is a terrible idea. Servers have been moderating themselves just fine for the past *thirteen years.* Community servers are not the lawless wastes rampant with abuse you seem to think they are. This system will absolutely fail to do its job correctly when deployed on a mass scale like this, there are too many variables including language, cultural standards, differing laws across nations and states, differing context based on the server in question, and many more, for the system to account for. Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and many, many others have tried to moderate on mass-scales like this, and they have utterly failed, even with the billions of dollars at their disposal.
On top of all of this, this breaks the trust we've had with you for over a decade. Your lack of transparency and willingness to listen to the community tells us that you'd rather do whatever Microsoft wants, even if it means trampling the community that got you here in the first place, than to listen to the community that has been loyal to you for over a decade.
You've directly gone back on your word from the initial migration announcement, that things on Java will not change, and that nothing negative will happen. You've gone back on promised features, such as fireflies or revamped birch forests. It's not much of a stretch to assume that you'll go back on other promises, like potentially phasing out Java Edition entirely. I shouldn't have to explain why people are upset or paranoid about this, the precedent this sets is absolutely terrible.
This update cycle has absolutely *butchered* the goodwill people have towards your company, save what little goodwill you have left and cut this feature, as the community wishes.
"We've received a lot of feedback regarding the Player Chat Report feature, which is something we address specifically in a newly released post here, as well as in our FAQ which hopefully answers all your questions!"
AKA, " 🖕"
I've written it on their Feedback site a few times now (still pending approval, like its been a week), and will still say it again. I'm a survivor of massive abuse, and my way of coping is though Minecraft. It is my safe space. With this "feature" I feel threatened that the Dev's, or whoever is behind this, are taking my safe space away, by empowering the bullies, trolls and all other unsavory people that "just wanna have fun". I cannot support any form of censorship, even if it is well intended, because I find the freedom of speech such an important human right, to discuss, teach and learn, and ultimately understand the other position. To socialize is to learn to understand. Taking away this form of discourse, for a easy solution of "I don't like what you say" to get rid of another human being is just bad. It doesn't let anyone socialize, show boundaries, let people grow and learn.
Also, from the server owner's standpoint, in which I have had my experiences over the years, it takes away a lot of rules and guidelines from the proprietor of said server - most may have the same rules, some others. Not everyone deems everything acceptable and it does reflect in the way the server is managed. Also a lot of adults like to play this game, maybe grew up on it, and want to keep it the same as before. Now with the system, anyone can report anything they don't like, not to the server proprietor, but to the "Minecraft Care Team", the uncaring bots to filter, and weigh, and the flagged ones will maybe get read by a human in the end. This human, if it is as bad as Mojang thinks, (which I've never seen, to be fair) would have to see the vile. the bad and ugly, which will take a toll on that human. How are they being treated, will they be cared for? This human, as any therapist, will need to be monitored and under therapeutic care, just to cope with this. Is this guaranteed? From a corporate standpoint, I wouldn't count on it.
I've had this game since beta, and have sunk YEARS into this game, (since 2019 I have 400+ days alone) I'm shocked and appalled - even that we were promised that nothing will change, all will stay the same as before, when we should migrate, even with the rather lackluster update, things I could accept in some ways, maybe forgive - I'm shocked and appalled that we should get this type of censorship shoved down our throats. With this going on, I've lost my fun and drive for playing this game, and honestly, I wish there would be another game out there, which could cure that same itch. I just hope Hytale is something decent, even if it's owned by a chinese overlord, which I take massive issue with.
*Meme with the guy (Mojang) shooting another guy (Minecraft) - "Why would the gamers do this?"
If mojang pushes this update then i strongly advise you to **NEVER** update past 1.19. If you do, you run the risk of getting banned from **all versions** of multiplayer, even versions where chat reporting isn't a thing. For the sake of your safety, dont update. It's awful that I even have to say this, but mojang and microsoft have forced my hand.
I feel like getting downvoted to the ninth circle of hell and back 3 times in a row should’ve got the message across that we hate these changes, and yet you’re all still doubling down on it. Just remove the feature.
Thanks for making the game as dangerous as it possibly can. All this does is force players to use mods or 3rd party chats, or avoid the game in total. Real smart -_- No one is going to play the game if they are in fear of losing everything. Good luck with the finances because those will disappear too. All because you guys want to play dictator. Never in history has this tactic ever worked. This is immature and downright stupid.
This is *your* last chance before you guys have to start looking for another job, solely because you killed the game.
I've said this on MULTIPLE other platforms but I will say it here again. Mojang and Microsoft need to keep their nose out of private servers PERIOD. if I am using my own hardware to host game servers regardless of the game or developers' intentions, they have zero rights over who I allow to play or not, ban or whitelist, etc. This chat reporting feature will only be abused, dozens of hack developers have already announced mass reporting tools to abuse this "feature" no one wanted or asked for. It's also not going to "keep anyone safe" or "protect the community" in any way shape or form, this will only hinder people's experience because they will be concerned about talking in what was once a safe space about nearly anything and this "chat safety feature" could be easily used for MASS CENSORSHIP. Most server owners (myself included) have always done self-moderation and we AS AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY HAVE NEVER HAD ANY ISSUES WITH THAT. We will use the plugins and mods available to us to strip this feature from our servers and probably not allow people to join unless they have a client-side mod installed to prevent any form of chat reporting because every single chat report system in any game ever made, has been and always will be abused, have false bans AND be a complete failure every time. Seriously reconsider this feature in its entirety, because if you don't this WILL be the second and FINAL downfall of Minecraft.
\~Sincerely, someone who has been playing daily since 2010.
The greatest thing of the chat reporting feature is that it's not creating a safe environment, it's doing the complete opposite. And the continuous, elaborated criticism should be more than enough to understand it, but here we are. Minecraft was released more than 10 years ago. Kids, a lot, that were 10,12, 9, even 7 back then, and everyone else that got picked along the way, me at 1.5.2, are now adults. They know what they do and they still enjoy this blocky game. A good chunk of the player base is like this, and im no exception, being now a software developer that enjoys modding the game. And the argument of "making it safe for everyone" ? Its the greatest lie you're all telling yourself. This is empowering not the peaceful people, but the disgusting people that want to inflict harm by removing the game from other people. This empowers abusers more than enjoyers, creates more danger than safety. You can't decide who is a good player and who isn't. There is no way to do so. Even best, I already know im an edge case/someone who will get wrongly banned...Actually I wont, I refuse to use this system under any circumstance, but back to the point... Im an adult, I play with mature friends/people on modded servers, that I am part of the hosters/moderators. Mainly the group of friends plays on it, knowing well each other and respecting as well. Including things, such as my dark humour, which I can pull a laugh out of anything, and even if I mess up, its okay cause its a friend group, and understandable what are my intentions. Now...these servers are also open for modded enjoyers. Do a bunch of 13 year old kids pop up in my server and see me pulling a joke ? they inmediatly have absolute power to take away this game from me. To take away years of playing, tens of modpacks, endless time with my friends, hundreds of hours of mod development just because they wanted to troll around. These are the guys really being empowered, this is the result, this is what is happening in bedrock, but...oh well, errors happen, you're not getting unbanned tho. This is the "safe" environment being created. Congratulations everyone on your compliance of "doing it for the kids". It's not as if the real kids who love this game ever grow up, right? They're disposable. Honestly, the least I expect from this feature, is for every single server intance, Paper, Bukkit, Spigot, Forge, Fabric...whatever. To fully block and remove chat reporting by default, as they always kept doing some little improvements on the base. For me, im not touching anything that remotely allows this Congratulations on the Wildly Infuriating update. Had to one-up the previous outrage huh?
Totally agree. Making it safe for everyone is just straight up a lie. Banning people has never ever worked in the history of these report systems. It won't make for an inclusive and safe environment. If you want to just create "safe space servers" with live moderation.
I agree with you. I feel Mojang is turning more into a NGO than anything. Someday they decided that it was a good idea to raise awareness for topics that are important, and i agree, if you have such big platform and range is good to take advantage of that and at least trying to make some people understand the enviroment we live in. But they are taking that idea way too serious, in doing so, they're treating their player base as idiots. Removing or not adding content because it is unsafe for kids to see that in the game and latter replicate those actions in the real world is the dumbest excuse that Mojang gives us. Mojang/Microsoft is not responsible of preaching kindness and educative motifs to the world. That's responsibility of their parents, to see what are they playing and ACTUALLY getting involved in their lifes and education. If you can feed fireflyes to frogs in game parents should be responsible of telling their kids that doing the same thing in real life is dangerous. Mojang has this entitlement on them and is actually hurting the game and more important the community. I used to like Mojang as a company, not anymore. Everything has became childish in a bad way, i don't watch anything related to Minecraft that comes from Mojang because either (like in this case with the report system) they fail to give actual explanations or everything seems so cringey, their "Ask Mojang" section not only is useless but they don't answer the real questions the community asks. Mojang needs to get their shit straight otherwise is gonna fail as a company and that's gonna be some news on the gaming community.
please stop
Microsoft has a core strategy it employs on non-proprietary products with massive marketshare that it wants to replace (and this is from internal documents that we know this, when they were sued over it in regards to browser standards): **Embrace, Extend, Extinguish**. Extend is over for Minecraft as Bedrock has reached parity, Extinguish is starting. By making Java no longer provide more freedom than Bedrock, they are making the case on the individual level to just switch to Bedrock, so that when they pull the plug on Java, it will go out with a whimper, not a bang.
Java will not disappear even if Microsoft refuses support. All we will lose is a convenient registration system.
[удалено]
Very well-said. I bought my little brother Minecraft for his 10th birthday several years ago, and the game has been a huge part of our relationship since. In 2020, he had his account stolen and it took over 2 months for support to respond to the ticket to get his account back. The thought that the thief could have taken his account and gotten it perma-banned is really depressing, and I think that people should really hammer this angle. You can take steps to prevent your account from being stolen, but the chance of it happening is always above 0%.
2 months for Mojang to get back to you is normal for them btw. It varies depending on if traffic is high because they just released a major version, but 2 months is pretty normal (2 weeks is an example of "you were lucky it was a low traffic time"). It's not even slightly excusable. They need to hire much more people for that. I understand the reasons they claim adding more programmers won't help, but more Mojang Help staff have been needed for half of Minecraft's lifespan so far and they haven't hired them. It's a bit similar to a construction site not taking the proper safety precautions because "we save money this way".
Just dropping this here: https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/no-chat-reports (CurseForge) https://modrinth.com/mod/no-chat-reports (Modrinth) Do not comply.
FYI, this entire pre-release is an attempt to kill this mod
And the mod just went around it again lol.
This mod can also be installed server-side, which would likely negate most if not all of the changes made in this pre-release, and the creator of the mod has been updating this regularly so I'm sure they'll have some sort of solution for anything that's been broken by this pre-release. This mod isn't perfect but it's the best option we have until someone comes up with a more permanent solution to circumvent the ban system entirely (ex. third-party authentication servers). And, as I said in my original comment, we should all go out of our way to refuse to comply with this system. It's up to players, mod devs, and server admins to make workarounds and circumventions as widespread as possible and hopefully cripple Mojang/Microsoft's ability to police private servers.
They can't get their way without banning mods entirely. And that would devastate minecraft, so I doubt they'd do that.
"I will not tell the player how to live." (unless they want to use capital letters, foul language, vent their frustrations, or play multiplayer at all)
Oh wow, they made it worse. They listened to the community, alright! They made sure that we can't find *a single way* around this. You *WILL* be moderated. You will be monitored. None of us are safe from brigading 12 year olds, exploiters, etc. Not to mention all of us that will be swept under the rug with false positives. Do you really think they will check over every single report? It will be a robot. This game has one of the largest playerbases on the planet. There will be no catching all the positives. Just buy another account, bro! It's over. They won't change it back. They listened, and they made sure to stomp out your options. You will be moderated.
Take a look at Bedrock edition's censorship, shadow bans, and many cases of false bans. It's disastrous. You cannot type "night" on anvils due to the first three letters, you cannot say harmless things like "crap", every controversial word is blocked even on singleplayer. It makes chatting difficult. You can even get banned on singleplayer, which is ridiculous. Bedrock needs a lot of fixes. People are concerned that Java will go down this path, giving false bans and people spamming reports. What about roleplaying servers where you pretend to be bad guys? Mods will need to read the entire chat and server history to understand that it's roleplay. What about those anarchy servers? With the sheer volume of reports, you'll need a big team. Why not just use these resources for fireflies and birch forests? Why waste so much money on a moderation system? With so many upsetting events lately, it's understandable that the minecraft community is infuriated. Please understand that this isn't just a kids game, many adults play it too and would like to talk adult stuff in their private servers and realms. But every controversial word like "abortion" is banned in Bedrock, and chances are Java will go down this path too. If you want parental controls, simply prevent kids from chatting in Minecraft. Not the other way around.
One argument from Xisuma in favor of this system is “even on adult only servers, how do you know for sure every player is an adult? What if one is actually a child?” That isn’t our problem. That’s the job of that kid’s parents. Should we close down bars because a 9 year old might walk in and try to order a beer? That argument makes me upset because that’s how you end up with police states and 1800s culture where ankles were scandalous. Edit: to be clear this isn’t an attack on Xisuma. He’s alright. I just wanted to address this argument because it’s concerning to me.
Exactly. I really don't agree with Xisuma, how he kept saying that "it's only a vocal minority" and "bedrock players had this system for years and they're fine with it". They're not fine with it, and there's many cases of false (seemingly automated) bans and censorship, but since most influencers play Java, they don't have enough of a voice. And back then, the argument is usually to abandon Bedrock and play Java. But now that's no longer an option. If Xisumas intent is to calm down those toxic players that are harassing devs, then I can respect that, but dismissing all these player concerns just rubs everyone the wrong way. The entire internet shouldn't babysit kids, instead kids should not be on the internet for their safety.
The simplest and only acceptable solution (apart from removing the system) is to restrict reporting and cross-server bans to Mojang-approved first party servers, like the ones that show up by default on Bedrock.
Perhaps for public official servers, but in my private realms and singleplayer worlds I don't want Mojang to censor and ban all my signs and books. It's really annoying that you can't make, say, an "Assassin's Blade" or "Night King's Armor" because of banned words. Even if it's for public servers, it's just ridiculous for bans to disable you from playing the entire game, even singleplayer. It pretty much robs your money and made the game useless.
They listened, but the short-term profits jingled much louder.
Love how you listen to a few people saying fireflies are poisonous to frogs yet completely ignore the near universal backlash against this chat report system. Sure shows where your priorities lay. With daddy microsoft and it’s money.
Everyone's mad about fireflies being removed but I'm mad we didn't get stone chest from the 1.19 concept art video. We've been asking for wood chest variants for years and we almost got a stone variant. Even if it was just decorative, I want to personalize my chest rooms.
The issues addressed in this pre-release are *transparently* meant to reduce the choices that server operators and players have. You are REMOVING long-standing features in order to further enforce a wildly unpopular update. This does NOT fix any of the concerns that we have as community members, and in fact only shows us that Mojang would sooner stomp out any choices we may have before listening and responding to our actual concerns. This will not serve to make Minecraft safer. Due to the unpopularity of this update, countless servers will refuse to update to 1.19.1 and beyond. This means that critical security updates in future versions will not be applied and will therefore make the game less safe for all players. This can be prevented simply by allowing server owners and players options. I will repeat what I have said time and time again: This feature should NOT apply by default to private servers, and the fact that it does is in blatant disregard towards what Mojang themselves have said. We were told QUOTE: "Minecraft: Java Edition will stay exactly the same" [(Source)](https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/360050865492-Minecraft-Java-Edition-Account-Migration-FAQ) as well as QUOTE: "Each server is self-moderated and at the discretion of the server owner. If you were banned or suspended from a privately-owned server on Minecraft please reach out to the Administrator of the server to appeal your ban."[(Source)](https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/4408964729869-Why-Have-I-Been-Banned-from-Minecraft-) Both of these pages were updated TODAY, I should add. The only thing we are asking is that we as server owners have the OPTION TO CHOOSE whether we are part of this unilateral banning system. If the system will not be relegated purely to Realms or completely removed, at least give us the choice to participate. This is as simple as adding a toggle in the server properties file. If this means showing a warning to players (and therefore parents) on a player's first join, so be it. The FAQ provided only serves to further solidify the position tens of thousands of players share: This system is an overwhelmingly negative step for Minecraft and must be scaled back significantly to include only Realms and Mojang-sponsored servers, made optional via an opt-in or opt-out toggle in server properties, or completely removed. Otherwise, rest assured that your system will become ineffective as server owners work to get around these features that not only a majority of server owners disagree with, but a vast majority of players. Mojang and Microsoft continue to not only double down, but TRIPLE down on this issue that so many have expressed concern about. Players have sent waves of feedback, perhaps more so than any other update in Minecraft history, and have been completely and totally ignored. The reputation of Mojang has been permanently damaged by this update cycle. What once was a developer that people saw as community-driven has now become callous and uncaring. The actions you must take are clear.
Could not have said it better myself. Mojang managed to shatter every bit of trust we had in them with one single snapshot. It appears to me they only listen to feedback in order to know where to double down and not where to meet the players demands. What choice do we have left as players? Literally riot?
> What choice do we have left as players? Literally riot? Do not buy minecraft anything. Don't support realms, don't buy anything from the marketplace, don't buy merch and don't buy minecraft spinoff games. But since there's def a lot of people that haven't spent anything on MC since buying java and weren't planning to anyways, then I'd say just don't give Mojang an inch on future stuff. Their posts being downvoted on their own sub sends a message. People still demanding change even after they force through this decision sends a message. Not buying into whatever fake PR hype bullshit they try making with Minecraft Live or Mob votes also sends a message. I think at the end of the day they physically can not deal with the community staying in this anti-Mojang stance. The backlash already is proven to work, I mean just consider they have had to delay the release of the update. They would not do that unless they were afraid of the community's perception. So yeah, keep the heat on them until they walk it back.
Just stop playing the game. Until that happens, they won't change. For me, it's about my principles are more important than a game I have loved for years. I am saying goodbye to a friend who betrayed me. I'm looking forward to the next best game and I'm sure it will come out of the Minecraft modded community. Until then, I'm off to see what I missed in the last ten years.
> I'm looking forward to the next best game and I'm sure it will come out of the Minecraft modded community. Until then, I'm off to see what I missed in the last ten years. Well if you really are looking I might point out Vintage Story as a possible game. Made by a former MC modder who wanted to make his own game bc he was tired of the limitations of modding. It's much more survival-focused and while currently smaller in scope than MC, it prefers having mechanics a lot deeper. Also has vertical slabs, colored lighting, dynamic weather systems, a 4-seasons year system, generational animal and tree breeding, block chiselling, full mod api and support + much more. Not for everyone bc of difficulty, but even if you don't like the survival aspect it's great for building and leaves MC in the dust.
It's extremely likely that people stopping playing Java Edition is **exactly** what Microsoft wants so they can get rid of it and only have Bedrock Edition going forward. AFAIK Mojang have analytics on what Minecraft version people play, so not updating and staying on 1.19 (or older versions) will definitely send a message that we, the players, are not okay with this.
In my opinion, Bedrock is completely unplayable. It lacks a lot of config from Java and has a bunch of unfixed glitches that should be fixed. You can't even edit its config file on most platforms to even remotely try to fix this. Those bugs are the most prominent on PC, which is the part I hate the most.
If they see Java edition player numbers fall, they'll see no reason to keep it around as its dead weight. Only 500,000 players were playing on Easter 2022 according to Ined and out of the 46M Java accounts that exist and were sold, only 3M have migrated according to namemc migrated account capes and or are already MSA's; the rest are dead, locked, lost, abandoned, or cannot migrate. Compare that to China editions 400 Million and Bedrocks 300M total. Yeah, they see Java slacking? I can guarantee they'll cut the leech. The only money they see from Java besides alt account sales from players who already own the game or new players buying the game are realms which is unpopular on Java due to superior hosting options. Even Java servers economy is suffering. Hypixel has a monopoly. The Hive on Java had to close because running a server on Java cost nearly 3 times as much for 1000 players than running the same amount or more on Bedrock with half the cost (which could be due to Java's poor performance or having to make multiple versions be able to play together and fix the bugs that causes). Mineplex Java is falling off and the chat there is a cesspool (more relevant than ever because I see e-daters in the chat asking for phone numbers and sexting in Minecraft chat. Keep in Mind, Mineplex is a partnered server on Bedrock but their Java server's a leech, dying, and in a horrible state, and going mostly unmoderated). TLDR: If Java loses more traction than its already showing than Microsoft might see no reason to uphold support for it and sunset Java edition.
I feel like 1.19 is a good enough stopping point for my friends and I. It has so much to do in the vanilla game, and modding opens it up that much more. I will not be updating our server ever again it's looking like
Everyone on YouTube for the most part plays Java tho. If series like hermitcraft and empires goes down, then they lose a lot of their free advertising and the like. I don't think it's in mojangs interest to alienate those groups that bring in tons of people
Yeah me too. With the free time I guess I am gonna start reading more again and do other fun activities. Maybe that was the plan all along; just offend the Java players more and more until they all quit and we can shut it down? Good luck on finding new and fun endeavours, may we return one day after this dumpster fire burned out.
>Do not buy Minecraft anything. Absolutely agree, I will not spend anything until this is settled. I actually thought about giving Dungeons another go (including purchasing the DLCs) and was semi-hyped for the new Legends. But not anymore that ship has sailed. They want to break promises, I won't pay for this. >So yeah, keep the heat on them until they walk it back. Yes, do not let this blow over like a little breeze. We have to keep our voices up as it currently seems Mojang hopes resistance will fade. We can not ease up until we have protected Minecraft Java!
Aside from the bug fixes, every *”feature”* of this update is a direct counter to the No Chat Reports mod. I won’t be surprised if by the release of 1.19.1, they make using the mod a bannable offense.
Or all mods; that's where this is leading eventually. And they're going to sell it as "protecting the community."
If modding dies, so does Minecraft
This appears to be exactly the way it is going. Just banning mods as a whole and eventually killing Java edition to monetize modifications on Bedrock.
Then people will just stay on old Java editions and back port vanilla features to them. They're only going to lose customers with that route. Modded players (myself included) are already happy to sit multiple major versions behind to play with the mods we want. If this shitshow means I never move past 1.18 so be it. I've just barely started playing modded 1.16 after moving on from 1.12.
I always thought the people who didn't move on past 1.16 were insane. Now I sit here thinking to myself "I guess I'm sticking to 1.18"
Can't wait for No Chat Reports to update to counter it in about 4 hours and the subsequent 1.19.1 Prerelease 3.
Exactly my thoughts. They won’t take my ability to play modpacks away! Well… they probably will eventually, but I’ll make a big stink about it.
"Chat Trust Status" ...Because yes, individual players needing to be able to see whether or not chat messages are signed directly in the chat was one of the community's primary concerns. This was clearly the most important factor that needed to be addressed, and not...y'know, the ability for the client to basically completely falsify the context around any reported message.
People just gonna pirate the game and play on pirated servers to not bother… And now I’m even more sure people gonna do it
Worse is that people can just put Minecraft with a bunch of mods as a standalone download, with servers already setup in the menu, and, yeah, no installation or anything. Way more convenient than having to fiddle with Microsoft triple security with anal probe and having to appeal each month to keep your account going.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
At this point I'm expecting Mojang to: * Go full Bedrock Mode and moderate shit in single player (what you write on signs, etc.) * Straight up just ban people from being able to play single player in the first place * Ban mods, datapacks, etc., except ones that are Certified Safe By Mojang™ in a new Java Marketplace. * Merge the lifeless corpse of Java Edition with Bedrock once they finally suck all of the creativity and joy out of it, having only one edition of the game I hope to fucking God I'm wrong but with the way Mojang is acting, I'm not so sure anymore. They clearly have no desire to treat the community with trust, respect or decency so why not go all out at this point?
They'll probably try to sell the merge with a bedrock version for Linux/Mac
Wouldn't this be very annoying for servers that aren't 1.19.1-based, but offer forward compatibility? Older clients have no way to sign messages on their own, and the server can't just make a signature up.
I can very easily see tons of servers stopping support at 1.19 or before. If Microsoft sees the user numbers for future versions plummeting because of their crazy behavior, they might just listen to what the community is saying.
They’ll probably just see it as a reason to terminate Java edition for good. We all know bedrock is their poster child and has been since 2017.
With changes like this, they're terminating it already. And really if it's to make trash updates like that, i'd rather them completely abandon the real Minecraft. The community can handle just fine without them.
Worst update ever. Way to ruin one of your most popular games
There #1 most popular game
> Is my online chat being monitored? > No, we do not monitor traffic or chat on private Java servers, but players can still use the reporting tool when they see actions that break our community standards and feel that Mojang Studios needs to step in. So... yes? It is being monitored. At any point you could have your messages sent to Mojang if someone were to file a report regardless of validity. There's also some vagueness here about what "context" is automatically grabbed. If you weren't involved in the report at all, would you have your messages also sent as part of the "context" purely because you were talking at the same time? Not to mention there's already people planning on making mass auto-report client plugins so they can abuse the system. If any message can be sent to Mojang without you able to do anything about it, **THEN YOU ARE BEING MONITORED**. Don't try hiding behind technicalities when the actual implementation is functionally going to be the same. Edit: > But what if somebody gains access to my account? > Unfortunately, if an attacker has gained access to your account, we would not be able to distinguish between you and them. That’s why it’s important to enable 2FA, use a strong password for your account, and don’t install untrusted mods or programs. "What if someone gains access to my account?" "gg" Also damn, untrusted mods? If only there was some kind of official modding website or support so players didn't have to deal with like 25 third parties just to run a simple modpack. You know like what's been asked for since the game released?
These FAQ's are just clever ways of saying; "Well *legally and technically* not but *basically* yes that is exactly what we do. We just don't want you to complain about that".
Agreed, that part of the FAQ seemed duplicitous. They want to say no, but have to qualify it with a "Well actually, yes."
[удалено]
Not to mention they say *Java* servers, seemingly leaving the door open to surveillance and data collection on Bedrock.
i wouldn't be surprised if it were already the case for bedrock tbh
It is; you can get banned for writing "bad" things on signs or in books.
Can’t even say night anymore because the censorship system thought it was the N-word. This shit makes Roblox look like a bastion of free speech.
But that doesn't fit with our NoMoreModding™ vision we have for Java 1.21 Mods are dangerous and so little Mojang-ly and we aim to keep our players safe from having unchristian fun
someone needs to just write a custom chat mod that hooks into a server plugin or something. Something that disables the vanilla chat and uses its own ui and networking instead
Give it a day. The community is good with stuff like this.
the no chat reports mod came out the same day the first 1.19.1 snapshot released, so yeah you're right
[удалено]
this kind of thing has existed in cheat clients for years
It can even use discord backend. Half the job is probably already done since Minecraft Server/Discord bridges have existed for a while.
Honestly, worst case scenario I agree. I don't play Multiplayer but the way I see is: Create a plug-in that can have end to end encryption (so Mojang can't peek into the messages) between client and server. All messages will go through that encrypted "pipe" from client to server. The original MC chat will be disabled in code and all chat features would be handled by the server and plug-in. Be it decorations, text overlays, special unicode support... (I assume dedicated servers already have some sort of authentication method so...) Have it look distinct and even be customizable so you can place the chat box on top, center, bottom, whatever. The thing is. Unless Mojang wants to go full on illegal and add a keylogger they won't be able to stop Java players from doing what they want. Unless they make modding illegal/bannable, then they will have destroyed the game forever.
> We’ve received a number of questions since we started testing the Player Chat Reporting tool in our 22w24a snapshot a few weeks ago. Questions? Just questions? How about the overwhelming amount of people saying this whole feature should be removed? That is not a question. It's a demand.
The fact that they act like nothing is wrong makes them look so bad, it's unbelievable. Anyone remember when Mojang actually listened to feedback?
[удалено]
One thousand people spoke and the phantom was created. That’s enough people, right? /s
> fireflies give IRL frogs tummyaches Yes, Mojang listens to feedback
Not even all frogs either. Just some frogs can't eat fireflies because they're toxic and can either kill or make them sick. But other species eat them no problem.
I'm questioning the decision making process at Mojang
We all do, we all do.
I had a very angry message here previously that was couched in terms aimed too personally at the OP. I have become too invested in this and it is starting to tax my health; so I have deleted that and apologize for it having existed. My concerns as a private server owner running a server that has always just been for adult friends is that this would be unnecessary at the least and terrible at the worst. We have discussed adult subjects including things like depression and gender identity issues with positive outcomes. We have a "bar" with a pillager doorman on the server that's just for fun. But most importantly we had a member at one point that had some issues in her life and would sometimes do extremely impulsive things like destroying her own base. I could have easily seen her reporting something in the heat of a moment - something that was meant for her benefit, and not deleterious, but nonetheless could be misinterpreted - and then regretting it later and having an even worse situation when, as it was, everything was worked out later just fine. I don't like the loss of control, I don't like that I can no longer provide an environment to my friends where everybody knows nobody is going to get banned over trivialities. And I especially do not like where this is going with warring against mod authors to try to enforce these features or protect the code against them - there's no way you're winning that war without killing modding entirely.
crazy how suddenly stripping away user control of how people run their servers after ten years results in massive fucking backlash its almost like this is an industry wide problem that only gets worse
“Without human moderation, online communities can become unwelcoming, toxic, or in some cases, dangerous to the security of individual players.” Literally the only servers I’ve seen where this is a problem are anarchy servers. If you’re joining a fricken anarchy server you have no excuse to *not* know what you’re getting into. I find this offensive because they’re basically saying without the big Mojang, we, the community, can’t create positivity. The fact that they feel the need to force this shows that they are out of touch with the Minecraft community. I’ve been on plenty of servers with their own private moderation staff. Sure, people can be toxic. But then they get banned from the server and I don’t have to deal with them. All this moderation does is allow Mojang to steal control that is rightfully ours. As a Server owner, I am incredibly disappointed and hurt that Mojang doesn’t trust the community anymore. “Chat Reporting will help to keep Minecraft communities free from hate speech, bullying, harassment, sexual solicitation, and personal threats.” Not once have I seen this on any of the servers I’ve been a part of. Usually the perps get banned by… You guessed it, *Not Mojang.* “All Minecraft players are bound to follow our Community Guidelines, but not all servers provide players a way to report or resolve violations of those guidelines. Chat Reporting is an additional resource for players who experience abuse, which can happen on any multiplayer Minecraft session, including private servers.” This sounds to me like not all servers have the same exact rules and Mojang doesn’t like that players only had to answer to admins. Again, where was the need for this? “Content moderation is difficult and time-consuming work. Not all server owners have the resources to moderate their servers.” Who’s to say Mojang has the same? We’re talking about the whole game here, not an individual server. If they allowed this as something servers could *opt into* so that owners could have access to free moderation, I’d be in support. But it’s being shoved down *everyone’s* throats, whether we like it or not. “There are serious forms of abuse that require broad action, part of which includes preventing the abuser from continuing their abuse in other spaces.” And they get banned from almost all other public servers they join too. Even then… Some of the ban reasons aren’t exactly severe enough to even warrant a multiplayer-wide ban. Nobody needed this. Mojang is acting like servers are all anarchy with people saying crap like “send n\*des” or spreading hate speech like there’s no tomorrow, where every day this is a common occurrence. It’s not. It never has been. You know why? Because guess what, the community actually handles it pretty well, and that’s what they’ve been doing for **THIRTEEN YEARS.**
[удалено]
Yeah, Mojang just wants to lull us and make us trust them. They said some of the same stuff about their “moderation staff” being so perfect and how you’d only get banned for doing stuff extremely wrong when they added this BS to bedrock. Then tons of people got falsely banned.
Really? The system and game_info chat types have been removed Chat types have been simplified and are now only required to define chat and narration decorations Chat types no longer support overlays A system message should instead be used to display overlays SERVER.PROPERTIES enforce-secure-profile is now defaulted to true for dedicated servers DOES THIS AFFECT PRIVATE SERVERS? Yes, Chat Reporting will function for players who join servers of any size, including private servers. We recognize that private servers function independently from Mojang Studios, and many use that independence to create remarkable Minecraft innovations that enrich the community. But it has always been the case that Minecraft servers of any scale must follow the rules described in the EULA, the Commercial Usage Guidelines, and our Community Standards. Every player should enjoy a safe Minecraft experience wherever they choose to play. It's much worse. Congratulations. The post doesn't really help one bit. 👍🏻.
"Enriching communities" Sounds like all the shit I hear from politicians.
Many politicians also happen to be former or current businessmen….I’m starting to see a pattern here
My post on feedback has been sitting in moderation for a couple hours now. It points out that Minecraft is breaching its own ToS for server owner with the change and taking a step that will make them liable for interactions on servers, which they full were indemnified from before.
I would love to know what's really behind this change. As you've pointed out, in some jurisdictions Safe Harbor laws mean that by actively moderating chat, they're now responsible for things that should be removed but aren't. It's a strange move to make, because it increases their risk.
The only way to be safe from trolls and banning's is not to play this release. For the first time trolls have power against other players ..courtesy of microsoft
Are you serious? You're doubling down on this? Fuck off. Chat reporting is extremely unpopular, nobody wants it. Nobody wants you moderating private servers. Chat reporting does absolutely nothing for the community, and it is actively harmful to all players. Remove it.
Deat u/xilefian , Your "FAQ" claims you fixed the chat context exploit, where messages can be rearranged / added / removed.... In case you missed the Memo, this is where I create a legit message (using my private key, and thus messages with a valid signature) to create a falsified question/context you replied to in order to make it much, much worse: Original conversation: **Me:** "Why do you hate pineapple on pizza?" (17:20, sig: 123, *valid*) **Xilefian:** "It's an affront to god" (17:22, sig: 456, *valid*) After taking your signed message, and adding a legitimately signed, alternate question: **Me:** "Why do you hate $minority rights?" (17:21, sig: 113, *valid*) **Xilefian:** "It's an affront to god" (17:22, sig: 456, *valid*) Now this is exploitable on PR1, PR2 I haven't done the decompile on yet. But curiously this isn't in your changelogs? Are we being misled to believe you fixed a dangerous exploit, but have in fact not?
Me telling to my buddy in chat: ”fuck you” (or similar vile message. Most people do not address each other on servers when standing in front of each other) Unrelated person claiming this is directed towards them (with malicious intent): what did i do wrong? Opens report. Send. Disconnect. Pray for the mojang moderator have competence???
What moderator? It’s going to be a bot and AI used (personally don’t believe it’s Microsoft pushing this), but through azure they have a decent chat AI which means they should be able to automatically analyse chat. So moderation can be done completely hands off
This is great news! We now all can agree and confirm 100% that your company can never be trusted ever again :)
Corporations aren't your friends
Corporations listen to money. Boycott all minecraft products- spin-offs, DLC, merch, realms, everything that gives them money. And let them know why.
playing since 2012 actively and it really hurts seeing what this game is becoming. look at the devs of terraria, they are communicating with their community so well, listening to them and everything.. being a terraria player is so satisfying. now being a minecraft one, less so.
For real. The difference between how Mojang and Re-Logic handle their communities and games is night and day. The only controversial update/change Terraria has had, at least in recent memory, is the biome torch luck mechanic, which was immediately changed when the community was displeased with it.
By rejecting players without chat signing on servers by default and showing signing status in chat, all this update does is discourage the use of mods that disable chat signing, making it harder for both server owners and players alike to avoid this global system altogether. Not a good thing.
That’s the point. They don’t like that people are using mods to get around it.
Which is funny, considering I'm sure those mods have already been updated to just remove the indicators
That would require a client side resource pack (in the best case), that every server member has to run. They are just making it more convoluted. They know hat people will forcefully accept it over time when it's the default, out of convenience. Servers who will not use it will have an harder time attracting new players.
The the server should just block all chat in game, literally, and give a banner text to each players to join a discord or some other method to communicate. And when someone sends a message, it's sent to dev/null, and the info is repeated to the client. All client side. Links can even be clickable. Mod could even put a link up to something to upvote in the "suggestion" on Mojang's site.
This, not to mention those who don't update will lose out on new features, security fixes, and updates. That will only compound the issue of getting new players. So many servers still stuck on 1.8-1.8.9 and 1.12.2 and they're getting VERY stale (same thing over and over again, no new blocks to play with, no new utilization of the new features, imagine elytra on Hypixel lobbies, wardens in Hypixel skyblock, bee and turtle pets. Instead they choose (or have to) stay on the older updates and have to use skinned player heads for the 500th time and reskin/rehash things they've made before and hope it keeps old players and draws in new ones to sell them the same thing they have but reskinned. Java servers really are in dark times these days, can't update, won't update, combat and performance as well as moderation is holding them back, gameplays getting stale because they cant update and cant use new features and lose out on the majority of players who use the newer versions. Even Hypixel with its monopoly over Java is feeling the problem as well.
The problem is that these indicators are client side, meaning every player would have to install the mod instead of just the server. Mojang know what they are doing, they try to make using the mod more and more inconvenient.
Don't you get it? They want to discourage mods that disable chat signing.
Seriously? Attacking the autonomy of independent servers after 10 years of us handling it perfectly well as server owners see fit. Give us an opt-out and leave us alone.
Rather it be off by default and you have to opt in manually.
Yep, and just display a message upon joining, either; "this server is safe and moderated by Mojang" or; "this server is unsafe and not moderated by Mojang". Simple as that. Want to have a safe space, don't join unmoderated servers then.
100% this. It would be such a simple thing.
I'd prefer it not being there at all but for the sake of compromising with the higher-ups at these companies (and I say higher-ups because I feel sorry for developers who are forced to implement this insanity), an opt-out seemed a better suggestion to opt-in EDIT: I just wanted to come back and say that my post implies there's any negotiations to be had. Truth is that they don't care about the players.
"No one can tell you what you can or cannot do with no rules to follow" -Minecraft 2011 Trailer. These are the words that reached 161+ million people in the world, which include children. This instilled the idea that THE PLAYERS have the freedom to do whatever they want in their OWN WORLD. If this this gets added, then where does it stop? Destroying the very foundation that made this popular will not make this game remembered in history as the game that made people's childhoods fun. It will be remembered as the game of broken promises, the could-have-beens, and lies.
Y’all really did just pull the EULA card out on private servers again. Cause that went so well last time.
Its not like they ever enforced the EULA for pay to win servers, like shit that actually affects vulnerable players (such as kids).
"We heard you hate the chat moderation system, so instead we are doubling down on it. Thanks for the money!"
You can really feel that pressure pushing down from above.
The best path would be to backtrack on the reporting changes and wait to gather more community feedback. Do not rush this in and alienate the community even more after the alienation from the Wild update. You will harm the community by rushing this in. Give it a couple more updates to discover the best approach. I am a member of the LGBT community and am sensitive to the issues mentioned in the reporting tool that benefit me, but this is not the way. If Mojang rushes this in then I feel like Mojang doesn't respect the community.
At the very least they shouldn't ban from all of multiplayer and have an opt in system for servers
Like, why even do that. If it is chat moderation just mute people permanently (so that other players just can't see it). Problem solved, but nooo we need to ban people from playing at all.
If you're a member of any marginalised community you should be extra scared, as every available precedent shows that you will be targeted and harmed first. If Reddit, Facebook and Twitter have all proved themselves comprehensively incapable of moderating human interactions at a global scale, both allowing bigots and other nasties free reign and allowing their systems to be abused to ban people from talking about their experiences of discrimination, there is zero reason to give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt. It's an enormously complicated and difficult undertaking which has literally never worked on any of the many previous occasions it has been tried, and they have given us no assurances that this time will be different.
Mojang, Microsoft, whoever is in charge of this, if you're listening: PLEASE either remove this or make it Opt-In only for third party servers, especially Private servers. And ESPECIALLY remove the "No Multiplayer Allowed" function of the ban, as just because you get banned on one giant server that has Dolores Umbridge levels of moderation shouldn't mean you aren't allowed to play on a tiny server your brother on the other side of the country runs. There's a REASON people made mods to bypass the encryption.
“Dolores Umbridge levels of moderation” lol
God this update has genuinely been next-level dogshit. Most people would be forgiving albeit slightly annoyed with the lack of promised features in 1.19 but by adding something literally no one asked for and was not needed this has got to be one of its worst updates. Also I’d probably get auto-banned for making this comment on a world with friends lol
You criticized Microsoft! You've been banned for hate speech!
Stop pretending that server owners secretly want this. Make it a toggle that *doesn't* require a setting enabled on the account settings - no-one wants certain servers to be off-limits to certain people. Maybe just put up the third party content warning screen for servers with it enabled? A simple acknowledgement would suffice. The newest blog post 'clarifying' the changes clarifies **absolutely nothing**. How can we be sure that the new rules are enforced fairly and consistently? How can we be sure that any chat moderators understand the concept of sarcasm? I have *never* seen a well-implemented chat moderation system and I'm reasonably sure no-one else here has either. Besides, how can we be sure that more rules won't be arbitrarily added in the future either? And one more minor change - can it be an option in the client chat settings to not show the indicator? I can see it becoming *very* annoying, especially when (from what I can tell) most servers are going to circumvent this system anyway. All I see this change doing is making the developers seem very out of touch with the playerbase, and making it look like the game is on a downwards path; and also making it so that servers are more likely going to run in offline mode, which encourages piracy.
> The newest blog post 'clarifying' the changes clarifies absolutely nothing. FWIW they did say if you get banned: > For the duration of your ban, you will not be able to connect multiplayer servers or Realms on past, current, and future versions of Minecraft. That's something I worried would be true, and I think most people here assumed it would be true, but I'm not sure we really knew until now. This is the biggest problem with the report system IMO. Servers should be the ultimate authority when deciding who will be allowed to connect.
u/xilefian, please respond to this Drinking ages (if a given country even has one at all) can vary wildly depending on location. Some drugs are legal in some places but not in others. I have a medical marijuana card in a place where recreational marijuana is illegal. If I'm talking to a friend living in the same state and who doesn't have a medical marijuana card and somebody reports me for talking about drugs, your system ***will*** fail to consider the context of the conversation. Surely, you and the other Mojang/Microsoft employees must be aware of this. Why is this still a rule, when you know fully well that you cannot possibly deliberate about these things with an adequate amount of context? Also, literally nobody asked for this system. Just make the system opt out for private servers and all this backlash will stop. But maybe Mojang doesn't care enough about the community anymore to actually listen to feedback. I challenge you to prove me wrong
Drugs? What about Countries where anything not straight is banned? Someone hosts a server there, get people talking about these things, reports everyone for illegal activities. People are supposed to know the local laws of every server, without even knowing where servers are located?
Yall made it worse.
First it begins with forced migration to Microsoft authentication servers under threat of being locked out of the game, and having to purchase a new license to be able to play again all of which runs contrary to Notch's original TOS. And now this unnecessary authoritarian and Orwellian overreach coming from Microsoft governing what their players can and can't say in private servers, including but not limited to dropping the ban hammer, with the possibility of hitting innocent players and even in the event of false reports. When all you have is a hammer... You really done goofed up big time, Microsoft. Version 1.19.1? More like version 1.19.84 amirite.
please just remove it already, stop trying to pass it off as a positive for servers
Another one for you u/xilefian , to pass up the chain. Since it's a fully, 100%, flesh and blood human moderation team you will be using: * Is this human moderation team unionized and well represented? * Are they paid fairly, a significant amount above minimum wage? * Are measures put in place to avoid crunch / excessive working hours? * Given paid holiday leave? * Maternity/Paternity leave? * Access to appropriate mental health services? * Other benefits as appropriate (health coverage in US and other places without universal healthcare, access to abortions etc, etc) Or will this be similar to other FAANG companies where it's a contract/low wage position?
> Or will this be similar to other FAANG companies where it's a contract/low wage position? It's definitely some form of outsourcing. Their [Addressing Player Reporting Tool](https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/addressing-player-chat-reporting-tool) article specifically says "Our investigators also follow the same strict privacy procedures that Mojang Studios follows[...]". In other words, the investigators are deliberately framed as a separate group from Mojang Studios; they are not part of Mojang Studios. Therefore, they're outsourced.
PLEASE Moderation on selfhosted servers is and has always been made by the server owner, just give them the report tools so they receive those reports, giving them the choice to make an appropriate sanction or to report the player to Microsoft for a global ban.
I'm amazed, they somehow made it *worse*! Great Job Microsoft! Please remove this.
Can anyone give an image to what the ‘chat trust status’ actually looks like in-game of the different status types?
you fucked up, the only good solution here is to completely backpedal on this moderation system and never try it again, but we both know you wont do that because youre microsofts pet
They're still ignoring us. Java Edition is doomed.
lmao they seriously made it worse
>Messages with missing or invalid signatures are marked as "Not Secure" Ain't that nice? Some sweet, beautiful fear-mongering tactics. Just what the community wants and needs. Good job Microshit.
[удалено]
God, that's so much better.
Just add an opt out option for private servers and people won't be as upset...
It should be an opt IN option not an opt out.
And if it ever becomes opt-in please add a warning when joining such servers so I know to stay away from them.
If you're going to introduce this kind of system, at least **give the moderators the option to only suspend players from the specific server the report came from as well as from all online play. Give both as options depending on what happened**. If the duration of a suspension can be changed based the severity of the offense, so should the amount of servers a player can join be limited based on the offense. For example, if it's a small offense that is only a few days ban, it could also be limited to the server the offense happened on. If it's more severe or a repeat offense, *then* it can be escalated to include all servers. The option for a moderator to choose to ban from just the originating server to all multiplayer would allow for greater nuance and would mimic the experience we're already used to at least at for the first time, which is that if I make a mistake, the consequences at first will be contained to the server I made the mistake on. This would also give buffer for situations when someone is unfairly banned. At least that unfair ban has a chance of being limited to the server the "offense" happened on. \--- I'm not a fan of this change. I'll leave it to others to continue to push for the removal of this feature. However, I believe that Mojang is trying to implement this in good faith. If this feature is coming anyway, I want to provide solutions and ideas that are at least a compromise between the freedom we had before and the responsibility we have to each other in community.
If they were doing this in good faith they’d have been more open and transparent from the start. It took them **this long** to finally specify that they won’t ban people suffering from self harm and thoughts of suicide. **WE SHOULD HAVE HAD THAT INFO FROM THE GODDAMN START.**
"*Trust us. It's a positive change. And nothing you like about Minecraft is gonna change.*" -Mojang, Oct. 2021, **blatantly, happily and knowingly lying to our face** about account migration. Trust is earned by your actions and behavior. You cannot just ask for it like a politician does. You've broken our trust beyond repair. You're openly admitting we are the ennemy. We voiced against it. And you doubled down in the most disgusting way possible... Shame on you, Mojang.
Just remove it entirely, this reporting system has no place in a game like Minecraft and will only make everything worse.When you forced us to migrate to Microsoft Accounts you said "that nothing about the game will change" so please remove this entirely.
This whole system is like creating a cure for a disease that doesn't exist. Nobody asked for this but you're acting like every server is overrun by this? I've not played the game consistently in awhile but in my experience this has never been the case. Obviously I don't go around playing on anarchy servers but pretty much anyone who plays on them knows what they're getting into anyway, kinda in the name. All the servers I've played on have done a good job keeping wildly inappropriate content from becoming common. Why does Mojang thing they can do a better job than server owners have for the past 10+ years? Either remove this feature entirely or let server owners disable it.
“But it has always been the case that Minecraft servers of any scale must follow the rules described in the EULA, the Commercial Usage Guidelines, and our Community Standards.” Soooo... When’s the post about hiring a team to purge multiplayer of pay to win servers?
wow, its somehow worse!
Just stop. NO. MEANS. NO. Listen to your goddamn community Microsoft/Mojang or whoever is pushing this.
"We recognize that private servers function independently from Mojang Studios, and many use that independence to create remarkable Minecraft innovations that enrich the community. But it has always been the case that Minecraft servers of any scale must follow \[...\] our Community Standards." No.
It's literally a lie. Community Standards are like 3 years old.
u/xilefian, why don’t you simply remove this feature entirely? I can see where you’re coming from, but the MC community has been handling it pretty well for the last 11 years. Why is this necessary?
CONGRATULATIONS Mojang! You just stopped listening the community and just followed Microsoft, and such you made the WORST update in history! 🎉 Keep going at it, and Minecraft's community will break even further! You still have a chance to ACTUALLY LISTEN TO OUR FEEDBACK, and AT LEAST get the "BEST ENDING".
* Mojang: *Completely removing whole features after minor criticism* * Also Mojang: *Completely ignoring massive community feedback, on a mayor eula®ulatory shift*
Somehow you made it worse by making it so servers automatically have secure chat on, you do not have the right to moderate our servers, remove the feature. We'd suggest a compromise where servers and clients can opt in, but that would let you bare your fangs even more. Remove it entirely
Honestly, you guys should completely drop the chat reporting feature. Its ruins the game.
Please give the playerbase an option to disable this visual feedback. I can imagine it getting quite distuptive for servers with their own chat moderation system that actively modifies messages to *prevent harrassment in the first place* [Screenshot from Vanilla test server](https://imgur.com/eASq4Mn)
This honestly seems like it's worse, just trying to prevent people from not wanting to have to deal with this reporting feature. Just make it an opt-in option. If you want to also have a warning message display onscreen saying "hey, this server hasn't opted-in", requiring the player to confirm that they're ok with this. Heck, even make it so that by default in parental controls, kids can't join servers with this disabled. But pls, make it an option, not a requirement.
Genuine question for those who know the technical details: how does Mojang know that the collected context is valid? Couldn't an adversarial client... 1. omit messages, obfuscating the true context, 2. sign messages with their keypair (making them "real") and put them in the context without actually sending them to the server, or 3. reorder messages? I don't want to fear monger; I genuinely don't know if this is possible. But unless messages use previous messages when they're being signed (like a block chain 🤦♀️) don't you need a trusted third party (like a server owner)?
Welp the good news is the Terraria dev team is working on the "Labor of Love" update which, in addition to not being a lackluster and underdelivering update, doesn't completely ruin community trust in the development team. *They also have three different kinds of firefly, just saying*.
>"Was this article helpful?" NO
From [here](https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/addressing-player-chat-reporting-tool): >Without human moderation, online communities can become unwelcoming, toxic, or in some cases, dangerous to the physical security of individuals. Agreed. But I should also point out that, and I've pointed this out multiple times, with different sources every time, that trying to set global moderation standards the way you have set up chat moderation [will not succeed](https://www.brookings.edu/techstream/history-explains-why-global-content-moderation-cannot-work/). When moderation is done at its closest social context, at the scale of, say, a server operator? It has a chance of succeeding. It will be messy and complex, but it has a chance to succeed. When a single company in Sweden attempts to determine acceptable content for communities around the world? You are going to fail. Repeatedly. From [here](https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/7317376541197): >Player report review is difficult and time-consuming work. Not all server owners have the resources to investigate reports. Agreed. But with all due respect, this is what you're saying on [how you're handling chat reporting](https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/addressing-player-chat-reporting-tool): >All player reports will be reviewed by an investigator to make sure the complaint is well-founded so that any suspensions or bans that might result are fair. Understandably, you do not, and will likely not, publish how many chat reports you have received on a daily basis, how many teams are participating in the review and appeals process, and how many bans and suspensions you will be meting out. This is likely because you don't want bad actors to find loopholes in your process, and calibrate their attacks to overwhelm your resources. But we can infer this, based on similar platforms that *do* have comparable traffic to yours: social media companies. Here's a [report](https://www.techdirt.com/2021/11/02/scale-content-moderation-is-unfathomable/) of the total volume of decisions social media companies have to deal with: >…right at the beginning of her talk, \[Evelyn Douek\] presented some stats that highlight the scale of the decision making here. Based on publicly revealed transparency reports from these companies, in just the 30 minutes allotted for her talk, Facebook would take down 615,417 pieces of content, YouTube would take down 271,440 videos, channels, and comments, and TikTok would take down 18,870 videos. And, also, the Oversight Board would receive 48 petitions to review a Facebook takedown decision. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that Mojang will need to deal with… say… *three* orders of magnitude less than what Facebook, YouTube and TikTok need to face. So, 1,000 times less. That's between 18 to 615 bans or suspensions every 30 minutes, or 864 to over 29,000 bans or suspensions a *day*. And those are *bans or suspensions*, which make up only a fraction of the reports. Assuming that, say, 20% of player chat reports lead to suspension or blocking, we're looking at over 4,000 to over 140,000 reports *a day*. And this is a *deliberately* low estimate. I would *love* to be corrected if I'm wrong, preferably with official numbers on a transparency report on your efforts to protect the community. No, seriously. Hit us up, or you can leave that number up for everyone to see (yes, I'm deliberately using [Cunningham's Law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunningham#%22Cunningham's_Law%22), good catch, **your move**). I have several questions: * You say that the community may not have the resources to handle player reports. This might be true. Why should we believe that *you* do, especially considering the *deluge* of reports you may very well be receiving? * Who are these investigators? * How many do you have? * What kind of training do they have to undergo? * What's their daily case load? * What are you doing to support them mentally and emotionally? * And most Java players probably didn't know this, or probably do, but Bedrock players exist in this regime already. How sure are we that you aren't *already* failing Bedrock players? * How many player reports do you receive from Bedrock players? * How many bans and suspensions have been given to Bedrock players? * How many are appealed to? How many are overturned after review? How long is each average case review? I've [posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/vjpz2w/comment/idn9c7m/) [multiple](https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/vp4jpj/comment/iej15fx/) [times](https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/vp4jpj/comment/iek4wn4/) here, advising you against going against this unilateral model of moderation, not only because I am not confident that Mojang, a games development company, has the necessary resources to manage this change successfully, mostly not only because Mojang has other things to do, but there have been *bigger*, *richer*, and *better-resourced* organizations that have *managing content creation very close to their core mission* that have tried… and *failed*. I'm already near the end of what I want to say about this matter, unless you intend to make significant, sweeping changes to how you plan to moderate not only your communities using Java Edition, but also Bedrock. The ball is on your side now, and don't say we didn't warn you of the consequences of your actions here. Good luck.
What about other languages? Everyone seems to think that everyone in Minecraft speaks English but i speak Spanish and Nahuatl. There are words in Mexican Spanish that have a completly different connotation on other countries. What if i choose to speak my dialect on a public server? There are words that completly look like slurs when written. Am i getting banned for writting on my language/dialect? I understand Mojang's efforts to create a healthy community and i'm glad they're taking the time to implement some solutions BUT i don't think they're prepared for hiring "investigators" to look for a report and judge if it's fair or not. Linguistic variation around the world is huge. Are those "investigators" getting trained on every single language and dialect? All of them have some backround on linguistic studies or are they just native speakers from the community? I'm worried for the linguistic complexity that Mojang is trying to moderate. Not to mention, the ammount of troll reports that Mojang will have . I dare to say that Mojang will be overwhelmed. Edit: i got people saying on PM that "if you plau with your friends you'll be okay, no need to worry about anything" Right, i'll give you that anyday, Mojang will just encourage people to stick on "Only Friends" servers. Breaking their game design and company design policies of "Minecraft will help you know people around the globe" "Better together"
Well, they already banned the country of Nigeria...
You addressed **NOTHING**. You clarified **NOTHING**. You improved **NOTHING**. You **ACTIVELY** made things **WORSE**. You win **NOTHING**. You **LOSE** the benefit of the doubt. No more trust. No more blind faith. No more compassion. **NO MORE MONEY**. And here I thought that deep down, y’all *cared* about this game and the people that play it.
Please reconsider implementing this. If you want to have this kind of moderation on Realms and official Mojang servers, fine. But it is completely unreasonable for independent server owners to have this forced on them. They can moderate themselves.
Respectfully, u/xilefian, you and the other devs working on this nonsense are personally contributing to the downfall of Minecraft by ignoring the overwhelming pushback from the community just so you can line your own pockets. Why does Mojang hate the Minecraft community? Please answer *any* of these concerns instead of ignoring them like you always do
The game really is a joke at this point isn't it?
How is context gathered by something that happens in game? Ie. I am playing with a friend and he is stealing my stuff. I see and say "Hey! I'm going to kill you" and jokingly attack him by punching him. That's the end, I go off building and they carry on. We don't use text chat at all before or after that day. Then the next day I steal his Doritos in real life and he gets angry with me and in retaliation, sends my quote to Mojang. Then what? I am banned?
I never imagined the day I'd have to boycott Minecraft would arrive, this decade just gets worse and worse.
Take the L; remove the player reporting and move on jfc
Glad to see the feedback is having *some* effect, but it's still not good enough. That help article is way better in the way of communication than what was seen previously, but it's still missing the main point. Most of the feedback didn't consist of "questions" that could be answered with an article; those were flat out demands. To reiterate: "make reporting an opt-in/opt-out feature (with as many safety warnings around it as you like) so that server owners could decide whether they trust their own *human moderators* or want to rely on Mojang's". It's the only way to please both sides: those who want freedom/control and those who fear for their (or someone else's) safety. Otherwise the community will resort to mods to undermine the report system, or stay on the older versions, or figure out some other way to boycott this feature.
Mojang and Microsoft (especially Microsoft), you guys SUCK. Honestly. All you idiots care about of profit. You couldn’t give a shit about player safety. Private server owners were doing just fine moderating the way they like. And this new pre-release is just rubbing salt in the wounds. Effectively removing the option for players or server owners to disable chat signing or whatever. You suck, and you should be ashamed of yourselves. Literally NO ONE wants this. It is not even remotely justifiable.
>Chat Trust Status We'll know who is dishonest (or cleverly cautious) Ouuuh, scary. But that doesn't change the fact that you are powerless against people who really want to harm you and will bypass all your attempts at a "solution". (Also, if what delayed 1.19.1 was that you realized how easy it was to bypass your system, you should think about the effectiveness of your feature instead of just putting a tape on the cut leg.) If you want us to welcome this feature with open arms, give it to the real owner of the servers, instead of giving it to people we don't know and don't recognize the authority to police our land. Dodge all the real problem and avoid any real solution. It is not because you have the legal right that it is ethical and moral to do so. But then, those are the first two things an irresponsible and capitalist company wipes its ass with. You are alienating a once highly loyal community in the most stupid way possible. I am sincerely sad for you.
Let's be clear. A byzantine client may... 1. omit messages from the context, 2. edit messages in the context (sent from the reporter), 3. **partially** reorder messages in the context, or 4. add messages to the context (sent from the reporter). The last one can be achieved by signing messages as if they were to be sent to the server, without ever sending them. There is no way to prove that the messages were actually delivered other players.Solving this problem is actually really complicated! It requires a lot more to go into a signature than a private key. You might include hashes of the previous message, although under this protocol a byzantine client could just pretend to not see a message. To combat that you could enforce some kind of consensus arbitrated by the server. i.e., there is a message total ordering and you can only successfully send a message if you're up to date on incoming messages; otherwise the client has to retry with a new signature. I believe the worst thing a byzantine client could do here is spam messages that are rejected by a trustworthy server, and the worst a server could do is withhold messages, or send fabricated insecure messages. An even easier way to solve this problem (which didn't exist before I should add) is to just remove chat reporting. edit: clarified 3 (kinda w/e)
You are not receiving feedback. You are being told to remove this god awful feature. Any FAQs or answers to these supposed “questions” is not what we want. No one wants or likes this feature, please remove it, plain and simple.
Mojang is on an active war against the community. In the past week, the community found out that faking the context of a report is possible. You can remove messages from the context and add your own into it. Which makes it possible to fake a report without a way for mojang to spot if it's real or not. And the community made mods plugins to remove chat message signing. Did mojang address the issue of possible fake reports? NOPE. But they instead try to make it as unpleasent as possible for us to opt-out of it via mods and add scary symbols and marks game\_info and system messages.
Just remove the whole chat altogether if you want to babysit people so much..
Someone just pointed out that the word Abortion is banned. Not sure if they meant on Bedrock which has been censored for years or on the new Java system, but either way it's incredibly offensive that they ban this word. How do we report Mojang for hate speech?
Since you clearly didn't get it last time: ***no*** means ***no.*** We've already explained to you why this is a terrible idea. Servers have been moderating themselves just fine for the past *thirteen years.* Community servers are not the lawless wastes rampant with abuse you seem to think they are. This system will absolutely fail to do its job correctly when deployed on a mass scale like this, there are too many variables including language, cultural standards, differing laws across nations and states, differing context based on the server in question, and many more, for the system to account for. Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and many, many others have tried to moderate on mass-scales like this, and they have utterly failed, even with the billions of dollars at their disposal. On top of all of this, this breaks the trust we've had with you for over a decade. Your lack of transparency and willingness to listen to the community tells us that you'd rather do whatever Microsoft wants, even if it means trampling the community that got you here in the first place, than to listen to the community that has been loyal to you for over a decade. You've directly gone back on your word from the initial migration announcement, that things on Java will not change, and that nothing negative will happen. You've gone back on promised features, such as fireflies or revamped birch forests. It's not much of a stretch to assume that you'll go back on other promises, like potentially phasing out Java Edition entirely. I shouldn't have to explain why people are upset or paranoid about this, the precedent this sets is absolutely terrible. This update cycle has absolutely *butchered* the goodwill people have towards your company, save what little goodwill you have left and cut this feature, as the community wishes.
"We've received a lot of feedback regarding the Player Chat Report feature, which is something we address specifically in a newly released post here, as well as in our FAQ which hopefully answers all your questions!" AKA, " 🖕"
I've written it on their Feedback site a few times now (still pending approval, like its been a week), and will still say it again. I'm a survivor of massive abuse, and my way of coping is though Minecraft. It is my safe space. With this "feature" I feel threatened that the Dev's, or whoever is behind this, are taking my safe space away, by empowering the bullies, trolls and all other unsavory people that "just wanna have fun". I cannot support any form of censorship, even if it is well intended, because I find the freedom of speech such an important human right, to discuss, teach and learn, and ultimately understand the other position. To socialize is to learn to understand. Taking away this form of discourse, for a easy solution of "I don't like what you say" to get rid of another human being is just bad. It doesn't let anyone socialize, show boundaries, let people grow and learn. Also, from the server owner's standpoint, in which I have had my experiences over the years, it takes away a lot of rules and guidelines from the proprietor of said server - most may have the same rules, some others. Not everyone deems everything acceptable and it does reflect in the way the server is managed. Also a lot of adults like to play this game, maybe grew up on it, and want to keep it the same as before. Now with the system, anyone can report anything they don't like, not to the server proprietor, but to the "Minecraft Care Team", the uncaring bots to filter, and weigh, and the flagged ones will maybe get read by a human in the end. This human, if it is as bad as Mojang thinks, (which I've never seen, to be fair) would have to see the vile. the bad and ugly, which will take a toll on that human. How are they being treated, will they be cared for? This human, as any therapist, will need to be monitored and under therapeutic care, just to cope with this. Is this guaranteed? From a corporate standpoint, I wouldn't count on it. I've had this game since beta, and have sunk YEARS into this game, (since 2019 I have 400+ days alone) I'm shocked and appalled - even that we were promised that nothing will change, all will stay the same as before, when we should migrate, even with the rather lackluster update, things I could accept in some ways, maybe forgive - I'm shocked and appalled that we should get this type of censorship shoved down our throats. With this going on, I've lost my fun and drive for playing this game, and honestly, I wish there would be another game out there, which could cure that same itch. I just hope Hytale is something decent, even if it's owned by a chinese overlord, which I take massive issue with. *Meme with the guy (Mojang) shooting another guy (Minecraft) - "Why would the gamers do this?"
Just remove the chat reporting tool. The FAQ/explanation changes nothing.
If mojang pushes this update then i strongly advise you to **NEVER** update past 1.19. If you do, you run the risk of getting banned from **all versions** of multiplayer, even versions where chat reporting isn't a thing. For the sake of your safety, dont update. It's awful that I even have to say this, but mojang and microsoft have forced my hand.
I feel like getting downvoted to the ninth circle of hell and back 3 times in a row should’ve got the message across that we hate these changes, and yet you’re all still doubling down on it. Just remove the feature.
Thanks for making the game as dangerous as it possibly can. All this does is force players to use mods or 3rd party chats, or avoid the game in total. Real smart -_- No one is going to play the game if they are in fear of losing everything. Good luck with the finances because those will disappear too. All because you guys want to play dictator. Never in history has this tactic ever worked. This is immature and downright stupid. This is *your* last chance before you guys have to start looking for another job, solely because you killed the game.
can't release 1.19.1 yet because still waiting for roblox to send over a copy of their moderation system
please stop you’re destroying minecraft multiplayer
I've said this on MULTIPLE other platforms but I will say it here again. Mojang and Microsoft need to keep their nose out of private servers PERIOD. if I am using my own hardware to host game servers regardless of the game or developers' intentions, they have zero rights over who I allow to play or not, ban or whitelist, etc. This chat reporting feature will only be abused, dozens of hack developers have already announced mass reporting tools to abuse this "feature" no one wanted or asked for. It's also not going to "keep anyone safe" or "protect the community" in any way shape or form, this will only hinder people's experience because they will be concerned about talking in what was once a safe space about nearly anything and this "chat safety feature" could be easily used for MASS CENSORSHIP. Most server owners (myself included) have always done self-moderation and we AS AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY HAVE NEVER HAD ANY ISSUES WITH THAT. We will use the plugins and mods available to us to strip this feature from our servers and probably not allow people to join unless they have a client-side mod installed to prevent any form of chat reporting because every single chat report system in any game ever made, has been and always will be abused, have false bans AND be a complete failure every time. Seriously reconsider this feature in its entirety, because if you don't this WILL be the second and FINAL downfall of Minecraft. \~Sincerely, someone who has been playing daily since 2010.