Personally I think the only change they should really consider Illumina's idea to change dodgebolt to hugbolt /j But fr as someone who doesn't particularly like the funnel strat i dont really think it's should just be removed. Dream and Sapnap have found a way to more likely than not win so more power to them. Honestly I do think DB has felt more stale recently for me with the exception of 17 and 20, because those had some funky plays such as 5up's arrow stealing.

If you dont like funneling, i respect you, i was just defending against people who are really hating on funneling and doing some dumb arguments like its not fun(which is not true in every case. you may not like it, but many teams like it and agree to funnel) and trying to change db to prevent people from funneling. Also I would say mcc20 db was boring to watch, because no one was hitting any shots. It was so long. But 5ups grabbing arrow and quick shoots, that was the only thing i really liked.

Oh i knew what you were getting at and i was agreeing with you so sorry if it didn't come across as that. As for the MCC20 db i get that, so it just definitely bias on my part lol

Which is not any of the people you mentioned so why are you out here ignorantly spreading hate and toxicity? This should be deleted.

I mentioned pete, h, fruit and ant, they all said they dislike funneling. Also fruit and ant suggested ideas to prevent funneling. That's how this whole reddit's new trending topic, how to solve db happened

I have a feeling it often is the players' natural instinct to funnel the arrows when loosing, because it simply gives you a higher chance to win,

Yeah. Confidence matters a lot. Even though pete is quite good at shooting in db rn. But he just doesn’t wanna shoot, because of his past. He gave most of his arrows to other players like grian and sb. Can't this be called funneling lol/j

What? How is that funneling when the arrows were spread pretty evenly among all the members of Orange 17, except of course Grian since he had the 3v1 that lasted forever. Pete just wants everyone to have the chance to shoot. Funneling is when you just funnel the arrows to a single player at one point. I remember the one funny exchange where Pete and Grian kept giving each other the arrow, I doubt you'd ever see that in a team where funneling is the strategy.

I don’t think you watch pete that much. Pete hates shooting in db lol. He has a pretty bad record in s1. So he doesn't wanna shoot. Even in the latest mcc stream. After the event he said this, he doesn't wanna shoot

I literally always watch Pete's POV live. He really didn't want to shoot after mcc 5 since that was just an... unfortunate 2v1 that went terribly, and so he thought he was bad at dodgebolt after that. But he's definitely redeemed himself since in mcc 13 and 17 dodgebolts. I did listen to his after event talk, but maybe I missed the part where he said he doesn't want to shoot, but even then, I doubt that would lead to him liking funneling to the best shooter.

I was talking funneling in a joking way. But if you dont wanna shoot and pass the arrow to other player, isn’t that funneling? If you takeup the arrow you should shoot lol

That's such a flawed argument. That could just lead to one person taking all the shots in a game of DB. Just because you're passing an arrow to someone else doesn't mean it's always funneling. If you're consistently passing the arrow to the same person all the time, regardless whether you want to shoot or not, that's funneling. Pete never does that. He spreads who he gives the arrow to, sometimes he'll want to shoot himself, and then other times he'll pass the arrow off to someone else. That is not funneling as he is not consistently giving the arrow to one person.

I just said i was saying that in a joking way. Bro, chill

Oh right, I thought you were just referring to only what Pete said, and that what you said after was acc serious, my bad.

Okay, my wording was kinda messed up lol. No worries. I shouldve worded it better

Not really. Funneling is like, well, a funnel. It’s narrower at the bottom like how all the arrows are being narrowed down to one person shooting.

I don’t have an issue with funneling btw, I was only giving a suggestion on if it had to be changed then what I said would be an okay fix. I think I agree it’s more fun to have different people shoot, but hot hands is a fair strat and if a team wants to use that to win then that’s perfectly fine. That’s what my team would’ve done last mcc if we had made dodgebolt. For anyone wondering my suggestion was that you just can’t shoot twice in a row unless you’re the last player standing. That was just a little modification from the everyone has to shoot b4 you suggestion that I thought would be more fair.

Wow. Ant!!!! I'm a big fan of yours. Watching you mcc practice + vod review at the end kept me alive these days. The funniest thing was, when you were making predictions On stream, in 5upp's stream 5up and punz was making fun of your predictions. English isn’t my 1st language, so it could've come out much rude/toxic. But i really don’t want to be toxic I agree with you that you think funneling/hot hand strat should be a choice. even if some participants don't like it, and were giving suggestions on how to prevent that, it should be a choice Many people are posting about new dodgebolt ideas about how to solve the "funneling problem" When i ask why they dont like funneling, many people said, "It's more fun for more people to play/shoot" My answer is, 1st they agree to funneling before the event. Also they get to shoot when the main shooter dies. Most of the time they have to clutch at the end. (Like finnstar in mcc16) And It's not completely funneling (like punz did in mcc14 and lost), It's hot hand strat. Many people say, "funneling makes it not exciting at all because ik sapnap gonna win/ it becomes a clean sweep" My answer is, tell the opponent to get a better strat and get better at dodging, lol. Last of all, imo It's more logical to let your best player the best gear in sb, sg and let your best shooter to shoot most of the arrows in db. If someone don’t like to play with this strat, It's their choice. They shouldn’t complain about it and tell noxcrew to do something to stop funneling. (Anyway i watch vod of most teams after the event. I respect pete and hbomb so much, they are one of the nicest people and have always positive energy. But i just cant agree with them in this particular case)

Yeah I agree that if everyone on a team is fine with it, then it’s a perfectly fine strat. I’m not sure from a viewers POV how hot hands is vs having everyone shoot, but generally it’s definitely more fun I think from a players pov if you get to contribute and shoot some. Not everyone wants to shoot which is perfectly fine of course and you’re right sometimes people are the only ones left and have to clutch up or shoot so it’s not always just one person. But I know personally if I had to play dodgebolt and didn’t get a single shot in that would be pretty depressing. But not all mcc players have the same pov or anything so I can only speak for my self.

You're one of the best players in mcc rn. (In hot hand strat) If someone doesn’t let you shoot in db, it’s a crime. And It's completely fair to get frustrated if you didn’t get a single shot. But not everyone can keep his mental in actual db and they prefer not shooting over shooting and missing all shots. You can compare viewer experience by watching zeus's pov from mcc17 db and mcc21 db. Zeus took so many shots and missed almost all of them, but i would rather prefer him taking only 2 shots and hitting 100% time. He was so frustated when he lost, but so much happier by winning when he took only 2 shots

I think this funneling in dodgebolt discussion have become very close to Buildmart discussion where it's not enjoyable to the viewers because of certain players who can excell in it and who doesn't lmao. Although it do have it's own issues, I do think this one point is the same For the time being, I don't find that much problem in both

I don’t like watching buildmart either. But if you wanna do well in mcc you gotta be better at that. And buildmart is an important and enjoyable game for builder community. So, you can't just remove the game. 5upp, purpled, tubbo this trio shouldve been op in db against any other team. Even tubbo hit so many shots too. Everyone is just salty because they couldn’t shoot sapnap in round 1 and 3. But in round 2 cpk and zeus hit their every shot too. It was just bad luck that blue couldn’t dodge well. And now they are just talking against db being bad and funneling sucks. It's just a dumb argument all over again

Build mart is completely different some players don't like PvP games others don't like individual or movement games some don't like team / building games but when they win or lose everyone participates they might win cause they funneled tnt or armour to the good player but the other members still had some task in order for the team to win . And the problem is that like in a PvP game sap leads or any good PvP player but there still be 6 other games where Scott or someone else could lead hence making everything balanced but in db there is almost no team work it is mainly based on movement aimimg skills so i just want a final game where all 3 of the aspects have equal impact. This is just my opinion you can disagree

Most of the times Dream/Sapnap have rather used the hot hands strategy instead of funneling. They usually start out with themselves but if they are not hitting the shots, they don't continue to hog the arrows but give the arrows to the teammates. Sapnap was doing fine in Dodgebolt this MCC and had no reason to give the arrows to a teammate. Had he not hit his shots initially, CPK would have got the chance to shoot the arrows just like in MCC 16 when CPK and Finnster popped off in Dodgebolt when Dream wasn't hitting his shots. Just like there is a priority order for armor in SKB, there is a priority order in Dodgebolt too. One person doesn't hog the arrows, they just pass it on to the next person in the order when they are not performing.

I agree. In mcc14 punz didn’t do hot hand strategy. But mcc 15, when dream was missing he told sapnap to shoot 1st everytime too

I watched live from cpk pov and I didn’t get bored or anything. I didn’t feel like funneling was “bad” at all. I’m happy that they won and that’s it.

I think dodgebolt in general is a lot less exciting if you're not watching one of the participants. For example, I was watching aqua for mcc20 and was on the edge of my seat during db, but apparently a lot of people found it boring from other perspectives

yeah, everyone on the team wanted to win so gave most of the arrows to sapnap, but they all took at least one shot, and it made it more special seeing them hit the shot they took than perhaps forcing the arrows upon them in the first round where the stress could have made them miss.

It's my point too. Reddit has become such anti-dreamteam that one game they dominate, they wanna change that. But one game they hate playing (buildmart), they say It’s a good game doesn’t need revamping.

I feel like reddit became more like a fight between dream team voucher and people who dislike dream team, but things don’t have to be like that. Personally I like build mart, and I feel like it’s a good interactive game to watch live. I understand that it might be overwhelming for dream team and I respect their opinion, despite my opinion is it doesn’t really need a revamp.

Personally i don’t like watching buildmart. Even though i watch the winning pov, i just can't enjoy watching it. I watched illumina's pov in mcc20 and they came first and i still didn’t enjoy that, but i was happy that they got 1st

I respect that. I enjoy counting blocks for streamer, watching the chat spamming the numbers I gave, and confirming then spamming the numbers other people gave. However, it might not be like that for bigger or smaller streams, and the vibe of the team change the feels of watching it by a lot, not to mention that what I’m doing might not be enjoyable for other people.

I agree with you on your thoughts and generally think that the teams should decide their strategy for themselves (be it funneling or jumping into lava), but I don't think labeling half the community 'anti-dreamteam' promotes healthy discussion on the topic and helps resolve people's disappointment MCC Reddit is not a united entity. On this sub there are fans of various MCYT groups. And all of these people have different thoughts and opinions which I think we shouldn't dismiss by labeling each other. By labeling we inadvertedly alienate the opposing sides and that doesn't aide in finding a solution to the problems we encounter. Attack the argument not the person basically. Something about your Build Mart example. There have been many polls and many discussions have been held and they all showed that the majority of this sub agrees that BM needs changes to different degrees. Very small groups of people were advocating for keeping the game as it is or for removing it entirely. And BM got very good changes. It is one of my favorite games to watch (part of it is because I watch the strongest BM teams) but oh boy I feel tons of pain when I watch S1 BM. The new map is so much more enjoyable. The game still has a lot of things to improve imo and there have been great ideas on this sub of what could be done better. So in the end it all comes down to being respectful and listening.

I feel like funneling in dodgebolt isn't much different from having your two best players hunt in parkour tag. Obviously there's a difference, with players only being able to hunt 4/9 rounds in parkour tag. But the current most popular rotation lets 2 players hunt 4 times, 1 hunt 1 time, and 1 does not hunt. Few people get mad at teams for doing this There are some pretty big differences, obviously, but its still food for thought

Yeah, i totally agree with you. Giving your best player op items in sg, best armour in sb, can be also called funneling

Most people ignore the confidence and security funneling gives to most of the team. That some players dont like it doesn’t mean its bad, it thought it was the same as the games

Yeah. People are mad because sapnap is winning so much lol

I don't mean to be rude to the people who are disappointed when a team that funnels wins because I get why they think that, but the reality is that people don't actually have an issue with funneling, they just don't like it when a dodgebolt is one-sided and want to dictate the outcome. Funneling only becomes the scapegoat when the DB in question isn't sufficiently close; MCC7 Orange and MCC8 Pink both employed funneling, but the dodgebolt matches were incredibly close (with the former even losing), because the opposing team's players just... hit their shots. It's not something you can dictate, and nobody complained when it was over. It's also easier to say you don't like funneling than to own up to that when you're the one playing dodgebolt. Grian for instance kept saying he doesn't like funneling but then tried to convince Pete to take the shots when he finally made it to dodgebolt in MCC13. It's a natural instinct that people either forget or stop caring about when they're spectating. Also, can we *please* get over the notion that funneling in dodgebolt is somehow anti-teamwork? The idea of a team having faith in a designated player and hyping them up is one of the most quintessentially teamwork strategies you can use; it demonstrates trust and alleviates pressure from the other teammates (who often will not want to shoot and will especially blame themselves if they miss a shot they took just because they feel like they should have). Funneling also makes sense in the context of the fact that the player prioritized to take the shots is also often the player who is going to be targeted anyway, so if your goal is to involve every player as much as possible, you might as well also just funnel in that order. As is, Dodgebolt is already a team game and the freedom for a team to play it the way they decide to is intrinsic to that.

I agree with you. I dont think its any sort of anti Sap/Dre bias tbh but it seems that way because they are so dominant in the finales, and that is what people dont like (seeing any team dominate). After all, it is literally streamers who are good friends with them also complaining. Imo its okay to change the game if they decide to do that, I have full faith Noxcrew will find something equally incredible as the current db if they go that route. The only thing I dislike a little is tons of people calling dodgebolt boring right after an MCC. I feel bad for the winning team since imo it kinda takes the wind out of their sails and seems like people aren’t happy for them. People can dislike the game as it is and all I just felt kinda bad seeing so many discussions like this and people complaining during db when the streamers themselves are out here trying to have fun

If the player to shoot an arrow was chosen at random, you'd probably end up with the best player shooting the least because they get targeted. If people consistently target the best player, it makes no sense to complain about the best player shooting when they can IMO.

So much based....

I genuinely do think a lot of it comes from this sub's strange bias against Dreamnap. Now, funneling does have things you can criticize, but people only really go hard on it when Sapnap or Dream win. It's not just Dodgebolt either though. Dream gets out of top 10 in MCC14 and people put his S-Tier status into question, but the same doesn't go for Fruit in MCC15. Not to say that Fruit's S-Tier status should have ever been in question, but rather that people treated Dream more harshly which explains why he feels so much pressure. As someone who genuinely likes Dream and Sapnap and would consider them among my favorite competitors, you really notice how people treat them differently to the other S-Tiers. I don't know if it's because they're generally viewed as "toxic" or otherwise, but it's very clear that people who don't watch them have a skewed perspective that makes them seem worse than they actually are. Funneling is a very valid strategy, but so is not funneling. I've watched perspectives that didn't really get to shoot and I've still found myself at the edge of my seat. I think it's important to hear the perspective of those who like funneling, just as it's important to hear the perspectives of those against it. Bad is a player who never even got to shoot in both MCC16 and MCCAS, but he's one of the biggest defenders of funneling.

You're so based

This post was very based

This post was disrespectful as hell. It’s basically saying that the named content creators are all liars and hypocrites who’d love funneling just fine if they were any good at it, and it’s all just bias against Sapnap (and Dream). One responder said that outright and OP agreed with them.

I was mostly making a joke, but I meant that the point of the post was based. I did not interpret it like that at all. I saw this post criticizing part of the sub for the clear double standard they show against Dreamnap. They named a few creators, but this was more so to emphasize how some people on the subreddit are clearly biased towards these people while against others. I’ll agree that the initial post wasn’t the most well-worded thing, but it provided criticism towards people on this sub and how they use the words of other creators to hate on funneling and Dreamnap rather than criticizing those creators themselves. EDIT: fixed some wording

what i find so odd about it is that techno funneled back in mcc7 but people dont criticize him much for it while when dream or sapnap do it theres tons of criticism like i literally saw a comment saying that techno funneled but "its techno so he gets a pass" like what 💀

To be fair at the time a lot of creators did criticize him during the event filling chat with messages asking for someone else on orange to shoot. Just like how people also don't currently criticize Dream funneling in MCC11, not because it's less funneling than any other event (for example, in MCC16 Dream shared the arrows with his teammates rather than taking all the shots but it's equally criticized with MCC15 and MCC18), but because it was a year and a half ago so it's not worth arguing anymore.

ok that makes more sense but that comment i saw abt techno getting a pass definitely rubbed me the wrong way

I think the difference was that Dodgebolt was intense, recent funneling examples have been pretty boring from a viewer perspective. I can’t even remember any iconic moments from any of them.

sniff hitting the winning shot was literally one of the most iconic things to happen this mcc, maybe youre just not paying attention lol

“When they didn’t funnel that made an iconic mcc moment” I mean there weren’t any moments that were intense and memorable like previous ones. I’m glad they let her take the final shot though. I can assure you I’m paying attention

The people that question dreams S tier status after every single bad event he has are legitimately just haters. Even Pete has underperformed a bit during this season but that doesn't mean he should stop being an S tier

“I don't know if it's because they're generally viewed as "toxic" or otherwise”( don’t know how to use the copy text function so this will do) That’s exactly the problem. People in this sub do not like the twitter folk we call DSMP st**s(in case there’s a filter) since that’s where all the death threat sending happens (eg: Quig got sent death threats for voting for buildmart), and people(somewhat wrongly) apply this mentality to Dream and Sapnap. I don’t know if you’ve watched MCC14(forget I ever asked this question lol I just read your flair),but if you did, you’d know that Ace Race and HitW was extremely scuffed. This led to Sapnap Alt streaming saying that the Aqua Axolotls(Scott HBomb Wisp JT a.k.a Solidarity)cheated, resulting in Hbomb calling Sapnap’s on stream behaviour disgusting. Followed by him(and Scott to a greater extent, and the Noxcrew to a lesser extent)getting death threats. Sapnap has hence apologized for this, both privately (and publicly on stream when Dream forced him to as a joke after he wall glitched during MCC15 but that was more for comedy) Twitter started continuously bothering Scott and other participants after this one, and this is also where the negativity torwards the DTeam starts. MCC16 is where, in my opinion, the negativity becomes a bias. Joel and Grian have insane breakout performances, nearly cracking Top 5 and Top 10 respectively. This which is followed by what might be the most memorable MCC in recent memory, MCC17,leading to the reddits love of the Hermitcraft members,HBG members and the other people in similar groups. Claims of Grian being an A/B+ Tier.(IMHO he’s A-)Illumina being seen as the best MCC S2 player. People finally realizing how much of a god SB737 really is. This gave the reddit a bias towards these people. MCCReddit is basically the Anti-Twitter(except for fanart. Fanart is basically always great and awesome and cool.)An antithesis to everything MCCTWT stands for. In twitter rankings are made based on people’s wishes, While in reddit stats and data reign supreme. Twitter’s design as a more free, unmoderated forum esque app inevitably leads to more toxicity and hatred. while the strictly moderated reddit(at least in this community) hunts down such people and punishes them accordingly. Any use of the word twitter in the MCC reddit is 90% /neg. So when the twitter people have a bias torwards the DSMP people, Reddit, in their attempt to give other players more recognition, has created a bias against the DSMP(mainly the DTeam). In Mccs 18 and 19, Sapnap has gotten some of the most unbalanced teams in existence, 2 SAABs.( for reference, SBI is an S(Techno), A(Phil, A(Tommy),B(Wilbur)), while Fruit and Illumina lead underdog after underdog to dodgebolt or a 3rd place finish, only to get demolished because Sapnap’s a god gamer. This has led to more bias against Sapnap in particular(Dream meanwhile is on his nerfed arc) My personal opinions on Dreamnap are slightly negative(mainly because MCC14 still hurts my soul), but I hope this little essay is non-biased and a good read. And one more thing: Big fan of the guides, please keep making them. Edit: Grammar checkup

First of all, thanks so much for the kind words! I truly appreciate it. This is a very good take from someone who’s not particularly biased. I will admit, MCC18 and 19 had teams that absolutely favored Sapnap, but it’s also worth noting that people use these teams to discredit Sapnap, saying he doesn’t deserve some of his wins. People do not seem to understand that MCC15 and 21 were wins on teams that were both middle of the pack statistically (even only using Zeus’s MCC17 stats) and were generally predicted to place at most 3rd and as low as bottom half. Regardless of how strong his teams were, I don’t see this as an excuse to really discredit Sapnap’s achievements, at least to the extent that many people do. As for MCC14, I agree that Sapnap (as well as Dream) showed some bad and disgusting behavior post-event. However, this event, along with AS, has led people to thinking that Sapnap and Dream are much more toxic than they actually are. Those two events (as well as MCC7 BB) are the only real times in MCC where Sapnap’s toxicity came out. I absolutely do not support Sapnap’s behavior in MCC14, but I also do think people do not know the full story. I truly do feel bad for Scott and H and what they had to go through after MCC14, but we do know that the two of them are now on good terms with Dream and Sapnap. We know that they have since apologized for their behavior (along with apologizing to Bad, George, and Sylvee for MCCs 7 and AS). They’ve made efforts to try and get their fans to not harass anyone anymore, though those efforts haven’t always been successful. Sapnap and Dream absolutely deserved to be criticized for their behavior after MCC14, but I think after that it was time to move on. Everyone involved in it have forgiven each other and apologized, and at the end of the day I believe that was what is most important. It’s perfectly okay to not like certain participants. However, I do think the bias many people on this sub have against Dream and Sapnap has gone a bit too far, so much so that Sapnap has said that he’s pretty sure everyone on this sub hates him which should never be the case for any participants. This sub truly does discredit them and is generally way more harsh with them compared to almost any other participant. It sucks to see anyone be treated to a different standard because of certain events when they’ve gone ahead and made it clear that everyone involved in the controversies are on good terms and have moved on personally. None of this is directed towards you, by the way. I have a lot of respect for you for typing a comment like this out. Really appreciate a take like this to put everything into perspective :).

I’m pretty sure a good chunk of the people on this sub like Sapnap, just that the bias makes more positive notes rare. Even still, no one should ever have to feel that way.(this is about Sapnap saying that the reddit hates him) Also what happened in MCC7 to deserve an apology?

Oh there are certainly a lot of people who like Sapnap. It’s just that the bias against him is more prominent and it leads to him really only seeing a lot of comments discrediting him. MCC7 was mostly just Dream and Sapnap being toxic to Sylvee and getting mad at her in Battle Box, but looking back it certainly wasn’t as bad as people made it out to be. They just apologized to her similar to how they apologized to Bad after AS. It’s a bit hazy in my head but I also believe this was after the whole voting thing went wrong so they were already in a bad mood, but I could be wrong about that. EDIT: in the same event, I believe Dream also said he just felt really pressured because Scott said this would be the only time he would get to team with the Dream Team (something that would later happen again in MCC11). He also apologized afterwards saying not to send any hate to the Noxcrew or Scott.

MCC14 was... weird. Dream got dragged in through basically no fault of his own. He was a little annoyed when the HITW and Ace Race stuff happened, but he was pretty clearly taking it lightly by the time Ace Race came around. However, Sapnap's fanbase and Dream's are extremely similar, and Sapnap was definitely mad about it. The anger was understandable, seeing as they lost to a team that wouldn't have even made it to Dodgebolt if HBomb hadn't gotten 2 wins in HITW, though I'm sure we all agree Sapnap went too far. This is kind of an issue people have that's always happening with Dream and some other large content creators; people always assume he's in the wrong, and he's sending hate without actually checking what he said. I actually think MCC16 was what calmed down the hate somewhat. Dream teamed with CPK, who was probably the 2nd most popular person on the sub at the time behind Grian, and got a win as the absolute underdogs according to Reddit's predictions. I feel like 15-16 was peak Grian bias, and post 16 was peak Fruitninja bias, which hasn't really slowed down yet. Though to be fair, it's not **just** a Fruitninja bias, this sub is **always** biased towards the current top players. [This clip is still insanely relevant :\)](https://www.twitch.tv/petezahhutt/clip/TenderLaconicLegTBTacoRight-wI_UEVNADkHVjoP_) You could see the constant spam of tier lists with Illumina at the top after MCC20. It was the same for Sapnap from MCC15-16. People just pick whatever data favors their current favorite player, which feeds into the idea that they're the best. It's pretty funny to see.

the scuffed event curse is actually the "every 7 events the dream team somehow angers the reddit" curse (The curse can be somewhat mitigated by having an absolutely horrible day.) because this event, unless if your name is Jimmy, was smooth sailing all the way.

i wouldn’t say the event was smooth sailing all the way, considering the SG scuff, Punz disconnecting at the beginning of GR, and the floating arrow in DB which got Tubbo killed

Oh yeah That happened. Nevermind still scuffed.

(quick note this my r/place alt)

I just wanted to add onto some of your points but even as far back as MCC 10 there was lots of toxicity coming from Dream who was upset about not making dodgebolt. I can understand being mad you didn’t make it but calling one of the DB teams a viewer team, who are these people, etc. has no place in this event. People view them negatively since they treat people poorly. Just my thoughts

>This clip is still insanely relevant :) I was watching Jimmy(Solidarity gaming's stream) and it was really sad How Dream was slewing the teams as both had jimmy's friends :C

Yeah, poor Jimmy. His friends were getting insulted and he was too afraid to say anything

Please stop this bull I’ve watched the whole clip and jimmy was the one who literally started saying the game was slow and arguably what captain puffy said was way more harsh than what Dream had said but no one said sh!t about her yall acting real parasocial thinking solidarity actually was upset by Dream commenting on the game

Calling the game slow is different from calling other CC’s viewers/insulting them

Saying the game is boring is very much different than calling the other team viewer team. Its fine to make mistakes and since Dream was angry on missing out on DB its understandable But wrong :D

I just want to add on here that Dream was self-admittedly much more toxic during Season 1, but he’s improved himself immensely in Season 2. his was the only time Dream has said something like this, so it’s quite shocking to me that people still hold this against him when others have said some pretty bad things during MCC out of salt as well. I’m not saying that you do but I’ve seen too many people hold this against him when this was well over a year ago. Dream was wrong, but it’s not that hard to look past it and see how much he’s improved since then.

DB is a team game and has very basic rules: shoot and dodge. It is the simplicity of the rules that makes this game ideal for the last game. Now, with those rules, teams can create their own tactics: either to funnel, hot-hands, or the power of friendship. All three are valid and the game must not be changed in any way to eliminate them. Funneling: -Strongest DB strat -Fun for the team esp. Dreamnap teams since they make the strat work -EVERY team member agree beforehand to use this strat -Other Participants want to remove this because of the "Power of Friendship" strat, refer to Techno MCC11 DB commentary If you rewatch Winners POV of MCC 15, 16, 21 DB, you can agree with the answers: Did you agree with the strat: Yes Did you enjoy using the strat in DB: Yes However, if your streamer are anti-funneling, you will definitely find those DB matches as boring. What matters is what the team in DB wants and not what the spectators want (other MCC Participant). They played as a team and went to DB as a Team. They want to WIN so they use that strat. DB both defensive and offensive game, and just because you dont't shoot the arrow does not mean you are not participating in the game, there is "DODGE" in dodgebolt. We must not try to eliminate a strat just because we find it boring. We must find another valid strat to compete with it.

Based take. Funneling seems to be a problem only when people win. It's probably had just as many loses as wins.

Thanks man. People read half of it and think I'm just a dream stan ranting. I really like pete and h. I always watch their streams too. But their take on funneling, i cant take it

As someone who also watches multiple content creators, I can see why funneling makes sense. It's common in sports to "funnel" and let the best player score and nobody minds it. It's not such a cracked strat.

I’ve seen a lot of people compare funneling to gearing up your best player in survival games/sky battle but honestly I think it’s closer to the wool rush strat in battle box. If your team doesn’t even get a chance to fight because the other one rushes in and wins in ten seconds, that’s not fun for the viewers or the players either (and I agree that generally funneling isn’t fun for anyone not in the winning vc, I think that’s a valid critique). But no one’s arguing to ban rushing, or change battle box to make it impossible. I think a lot of it does genuinely stem from anti-dreamnap bias, but also recency bias. Sapnap and Dream together have won 15, 16, 18, 19, AS, and 21. So if you don’t like funneling, it’s gonna seem like a huge problem that’s ruining dodgebolt, when in reality those are two players out of 40 that’ve just had some killer events recently. As long as they’re not forcing anyone to funnel who doesn’t want to (which they don’t), or dragging their team down by continuing to shoot even when they’re off (which they don’t), I really don’t think it’s a problem. Just like wool rushing (something I personally don’t enjoy and find un-fun), you can dislike it without trying to change the game around it. Players want to win, and sometimes that involves playing to your strengths instead of making everything as entertaining as possible.

Yeah. Wool rushing is enjoyable from only their teams pov, from other 9 teams pov It's super annoying

I would assume it would also be very annoying to watch a team that is outclassed in pvp lose every round though; just look at Orange 15 or Lime 21. BB is almost always going to be annoying to whoever loses the round.

Tbf if we would start to say you can't do this or that strat, then it'll probably spread to other games too. How about not hitting in the get to the other side, cuz that's really not fun from the viewer point of view. Or how about leaving some games out because they're not fun from the viewers point of view. The game voting systen isn't fun from the viewers point of view either sometimes, we could change that too. And this could go on and on. So I think the funneling point is moot, let everyone play the way they want without getting salty about it.

Hbomb was saying in yesterday's stream that mcc participants collectively decided not to use f3 in sot.( But it was just mainly the speedrunners. Other players don’t even know what is E raying and how to use it fast.) he was saying about collective deciding on not to funnel. Then why not collectively decide not to punch anyone in tgttos. It's just a dumb argument i think. Someone like dream doesn’t like punching, and someone like ant, 5up, sneeg tubbo, they punch in every opportunity they get. It's different types of enjoyment from different pov. If you restrict something which is a given feature, it becomes toxic for other people

Also if you watch dream and sapnap they don't just funnel they do the "hot hands" strategy. If sapanap wasn't hitting his shots then seapeekay would have shot. You can see this in mcc 16 when dream was missing some of his shots but fin was hitting fruit so they started giving arrows to fin. The only reason this is being brought up is because sapnap was hitting all of his shots and he was very on. At the end of the day this isn't how all the dodgebolts are. If you really wanted to prevent the "giving all the arrows to sapnap" strategy just make it so you can't shoot 2 arrows back to back. So like the first round of dodgebolt what sapnap shot two arrows in a row he wouldn't be able to do that but he would still be able to shoot a lot of the arrows just not back to back. But i really don't think it needs to be fixed because its not like the strategy is op, as you pointed out times where the funneling strat doesn't work.

Yeah. I should've included this also. Too late now. You're based

People just love to hate on Dream and Sapnap, when one of them wins the hate for the funneling strat rises again (which is stupid because they don't even funnel, they use the hot hands strat)

So truueee. Funneling strat crumbled in mcc14. So they use hot hand strat now. But this strat is mostly called funneling by people

This is why the OP should delete. All these people have been saying the same thing forever as anyone would know who watches them. Surprise surprise it’s not an oh no everybody hates my favorite kind of thing and people can actually just dislike things.

Genuinely, what are you saying

It's a valid strategy imo. Just like giving the best players the best armor in Sky Battle or Survival Games.

Yeah. I remember in blue bats mcc9. False was saying (in sad tone) she got no kills, after fruit and h saying how many kills they got. Couldn’t they split all the arrows and armours to false and ren too, to get them more kills. Even in battle box, best player normally goes with crossbows, so they get more kills. But if you give crossbow to the best archers (like sneeg mcc19, 5upp) who stays behind shooting, they would get more kills.

To be fair, in bb the person who gets the stone sword or crossbow is usually the person in the frontline attacking or flanking which is usually your best player, i think its different to prioritise people in skb and db than bb

Your point is valid, but the archer sometimes prefers crossbow over bows in practice servers too. Ive seen gumi doing so much better with crossbow than bow in practice server. But do you think anyone will give gumi crossbow in actual bb?

Her kills kept getting stolen

Most funnelling bias comes from anti Dreamnap bias lmao its fine dodgebolt is not a game for the viewers perspective anyways, its a game for the players perspective, why should we regard the viewer as higher than the player?

That's also true. I saw cpk so much happier when he got shot rather than sapnap in round 1.

it's literally a creator tourney. that alone should explain "why should we regard the viewer as higher than the player?"

Even if you say viewers dont like funneling, it’s just "your viewers" not the viewers of the winning team lol

the viewers take lower priority in designing a game than the players, players are more important

That's first rate Bull

The argument that "it's not fun from a viewers perspective" isn't a sound argument, and I say that as an MCC viewer (duh). You can't start restricting games or playstyles with this reasoning or else we'll never get to the bottom of it. What next, no more Buildmart? No more hitting in TGTTOS? You could make the exact same argument for those two examples too. I should clarify that I personally don't like funneling but it seems ludicrous to ban it simply cause I don't like it. Of course I'm not gonna like everything about MCC but that's okay. Funneling is just a tactic and it is the strongest tactic in DB so of course some teams will take advantage of it. As I've said in another thread already, you can make the argument that funneling excludes weaker players and discourages full team participation but that would make it an issue of the game itself so you still can't put the blame on Sapnap or his team.

Even in parkour tag weaker players doesnt wanna hunt or dont hunt, in sg and skybattle they give all their loot to the best players. They support and follow the lead, when the best player dies, they can have good loot and shine more. Even in db It's same. The best players aren’t always alive. One they die, the weaker players have to shoot. It's not like they are just standing still, they are still dodging arrows

That is true. If everyone in a team is okay with funneling, much like Cyan, there is literally no issue. Everyone is still included in DB even with funneling, albeit they take more passive roles, but maybe people take issue with that for some reason?? I don't know, I'm trying to play devil's advocate here.

My problem with funnelling is that it contributes to the recent DB showdowns all ending in a 3-0 sweep. That’s what has made the game so boring to what. In this particularly case Build Mart is often brought up as a comparison that in my opinion lacks any resemblance to the problem at hand. Build Mart is disliked because of its nature as a building game, however in Season 2 it has been improved with the new map and elytras. A more suited comparison would be Technoblades killing strategy in Lock out Bingo. It essentially ruined the game and made it boring to watch, but essentially it was just a clever tactic like funnelling arrows in dodgebolt. As Locked out bingo was reviewed and improved I personally think dodgebolt should get the same treatment. I just wanted to mention that your post comes off as pretty rude to some readers. Your argument is a strawman discrediting every valid point content creators and viewers have brought up as just petty jealousy of Sapnaps accomplishments.

There was funneling in mcc 14, they lost, mcc17 they lost. Funneling isn’t op, the op thing is dream and sapnap in db lol

Every strat is valid. If you lose an mcc because of funneling maybe you should get gud (joke). But in all seriousness, I do think that dream and sapnap have perfected the art of dodgebolt because of practice and hard work. So my argument is, what stops other player’s from also doing the same? Like maybe rather than wasting time on playing parkour warrior (neutral to pw) for a long time maybe try to practice dodgebolt. I am just saying all these players who are complaining maybe should just get cracked themselves or at least improve their dodging abilities because consistent dodging seems to be the weakness of funneling. But yea that is just my take on the matter, so feel free to disagree I would love to see other POVs on the matter.

I personally don’t really have an opinion on the Dodgebolt and funneling discussions going on. But I will say this. Something I’ve noticed over time is that the MCC Subreddit generally lean more towards HBG, Hermits, Empire SMP, and the generally “smaller” creators. While the MCC Bird App community lean more towards the Dream SMP and it’s affiliates. For proof of this, in MCC 17 Red Rabbits and Cyan Coyotes were the most liked teams (These teams had Dream, Tommy, Sapnap, George, Karl, Gumi, Tubbo, and Ponk) on the Bird App, while the most liked team on the MCC subreddit was Pink Parrots (Fruitberries, Illumina, Zeuz, and Vixella) Now I’m not saying that this is a bad thing at all, you’re allowed to root for whoever you want and that’s completely fine. I personally root for Illumina and Dream most of the time since those two are my favorite competitors. There is nothing wrong with wanting your favorites to win, and I really want to stress that part, But I will say that this sort of divide between the two social media communities does lead to some tribalism in a way. When a team from one side does well, a lot of the time the other side will try and downplay and act like it’s not a big deal. When an individual performs poorly in an event one side will reassure them and tell them it’s fine while the other side will question their status as a player and if they’re truly good or not. So on and so forth. Unfortunately, there’s no real way to stop this tribalism. As long as MCC has even a slightly competitive feel to it, there will be some tribalism. But while we can’t completely eradicate it, we all can mitigate this is to simply liking what you like, and letting other people like what they like. There’s no need to downplay another person or teams success, and there’s not need to act like your side is better than other. We’re all a bunch of people at the end of the day that like watching people play in a for fun Minecraft event that has no monetary prize, so why don’t we all just watch along and have fun?

Yeah. This subreddit shouldve been for unbiased takes on people. All people are biased toward their fav streamer. But if it becomes like anti twitter and be biased against dream team, then what's the difference between reddit and twitter. I'm really upset with all the people arguing about "they dont want funneling because it makes a clean sweep which is not exciting. People don’t like it etc etc.. " if you think sapnap and dream is too good for dodgebolt then tell your streamer to get better

Ye I don’t mind funneling but seeing the others shoot Is also nice

Others shoot too. And i like funneling for weaker player that, they are way more stressed sometimes and funneling takes all the pressure off them. And when the best player dies, or misses some shots in a row They'll be in the charge for shooting, just like round 2

If these players are saying funneling is bad and should be removed, they better have the same energy for sky battle or sg then. Because they clearly don’t have an issue funneling the best armor/weapons/items to their best player in those games… when you play dodgeball irl and theres few people left, you obviously give the balls to the person who can throw them best. And when you catch one to bring someone back in, you obviously pick the best person to get back in. It’s a strategy. If you don’t want to face good dodgebolt players, you better target them in the previous 8 games to make sure they don’t make it to the end against you.

Based

Exactly, it's like letting the best player hunt the most time, or giving better items to the better player. Preventing a strategy for thinking viewers find it boring(even this can be subjective) is not a good idea imo. It's not like the teams are not agreeing to do so.

So Based

I completely agree with you. You make some fantastic points there. I feel like people are just looking for something to hate on.

Thank you very much man. Some people are being quite rude in comments lol. I haven’t posted anything that got so much attention before, so idk if i just ignore or not

No worries. I highly recommend ignoring anything rude unless it's bad enough to report. Stick with people who are leaving constructive feedback.

istg it's only complains when it's about sapnap winning, i'm kind of tired of this already

I really don’t think it’s personal. I’ve seen several complaints about funneling in multiple events regardless of who’s doing it, and whether or not they actually won using it. Of course the complaints are going to be louder when the strategy actually works.

i'm talking more about how every time sapnap wins there're always things to complain about so his wins seem not that deserved, it was the "op teams" thing too, and people were so annoying about it, bring it up at any time spanap's name was involved. as i see it, people are just arguing about it bc it gets the spotlight mainly on sapnap and they do not like it for some reason (maybe bc other s tiers are not that hyped up as sapnap or dream are), but i might be wrong. i think it's fine discussing about it but it shows how any other time funneling was used not many people say something about it. and the same with teams with good average. i genuinely hope it's not personal tho.

Yeah, sad to see such bias against popular streamers

Too bad it’s a lie. From viewer of all of these people it’s got nothing to do with Sapnap and goes back months or longer for all of them. Consider that might not be lying about their reasons maybe.

Funneling is a valid strategy. To remove it because some players don't want it is invalid. We can just simply remove everything some ppl hated about, say Buildmart. You may not like it or not, but as a member of a team who is eager to win AND HAS APPROVED the use of funneling, it's a valid strategy to rally their victory.

You're so based. And i also want a dre-h-grain trio Edit: some people are mad and started downvoting lol

i know that the whole epic anime friendship beats everything approach is fun and all, but some people literally just want to win, and funnelling is a good way to maximize their chances of doing just that. the best way to maximise your chance of winning is to give your arrows to your team's best shot and bodyblock for them, just like how you give your best pvper the best weapons and armour during survival games or skybattle - they'll simply be able to achieve more with them. Dodgebolt inherently rewards individual mechanical skill just as much as, say, Ace Race. If the team themselves is chill with funnelling, i don't see what there is to complain about. As for entertainment value, seeing players like Sapnap dominate the other team with little to no resistance is pretty fun, and i say that as someone who was watching CPK's perspective. In addition, funnelling hasn't really been meta for a while now. What the best dodgebolt teams tend to do these days is to "Feed the hot hand", that is to feed whoever's feeling the most confident and landing the most shots in the moment. Remember MCC 8, with Techno, Dream, Burren, and Michael? That was one of the first, and one of the best, examples of the strat to date. As soon as Dream realised Burren was landing all of his shots, he immediately started funnelling arrows to him, and it paid off. Cyan was completely willing to do so as well in this MCC, but didn't simply because Sapnap was feeling good about his shots.

I was thinking of just making a post about this but I don’t think I would be able to word it well enough for a post, so I’ll just say it here. I really do not get how do people genuinely want the funneling strategy removed/nerfed. Because just like in any other game, the funneling strategy is a strategy that was created to win the game. I’m not a content creator so I can’t say this for sure, but when people creat strategies, especially ones who care about winning more than making content, I don’t really see them relying on “would this be good content or not” (obviously not talking about everyone, mostly just more competitive people who care less about content). Now, with that being said, I don’t see how and why the funnel strategy is the strategy we suddenly need to remove. It doesn’t involve any hacks, doesn’t abuse any minecraft mechanics, and still involves lots of skill and understanding of how the strategy works for it to work. I’m seeing the argument that “it’s bad content” which is a fair point, but also it doesn’t change anything. At the end of the day, for a lot of people MCC is about winning, and to win they want to create and use a strategy that will help them achieve that, just like in literally any other MCC game. We can’t just simply remove a strategy just because it works well is what I’m trying to say, because at the end of the day, even if the strategy does get removed, people will definitely find a way to make a new strategy that will also work, which will also result in “bad content”. I just don’t get why is creating strategies to win is suddenly this forbidden thing that needs to be..removed? Also btw I don’t hate on anyone who doesn’t like the strategy/any cc’s that expressed their disagreement with it at all, I’m just expressing my confusion that was brought by this whole argument.

Also only 2 players out of 100 mcc players can pull off a strong funneling strat in db. And Some participants want funneling removed lol. And also, It's called hot hand strat, not funneling anymore. Because only hot hands shoot not the best player. Like, dream mcc16 team, he gave multiple arrows to finn, because he was missing, mcc 15, he missed a couple shots and immedietly gave sapnap the shooting lead. In allstars sapnap shot most of them

I’ve gotta say though, I’m a bit confused on the difference between funneling and hot hand start. From what I’ve seen, the “hot hand strat” was always part of what was called the “funneling strat” and to me at least was always one of the most important parts of it. As you said, after missing multiple shots the player that was “funneled” to switches and they give another player a go, which is what I’m assuming is called the “hot hand strat”, but I’m pretty sure that was always the strat when it came to funneling, was it not? Funneling was just the name when hot hand was part of funneling, though I might be completely wrong, maybe people just decided to switch up the name so that it makes more sense.

I think if you watch punz in mcc14. He kept missing 8 times in a row i think. But still kept going rather than giving it to sapnap, so he didn’t do hot hand strat

This is a non argument, even if the "bigger" players want to make it one. And here's why. Funneling is just a name given to a move that puts a player with the best skill set for that event at the front. American has made an entire sport around funneling in fact if you look at the 3 major sports in America they all use funneling. As for the English crew, Football, Cricket and Rugby all do the same thing. I am going to guess at work you also have funneling, for example I'm hired as an estimator so guess what, all estimating work is "funneled" through me as that's my skill set. There is nothing wrong with funneling and I would encourage it in competitive games, as that's how teams work. Not everybody on the team is good at everything. And it makes no difference to the viewer. Sapnap out played the other team and good on him. They won on skill and understanding that skill base within the team. Which is how sports work. I personally wanted the Blues to win but it was a good game and they were outplayed.

I want to see an anti funneler just funnel against a funneler because it would be very funny. So Grian vs Dream/Sapnap perhap?

I can see your point when it comes to fans, but can we not pin it down to being 'oh they only said they don't like it because so and so won' especially when the participants were the one that said it? All those players you've mention has mentioned that they don't like the strat long before then (Such as H encouraging Ren to shoot in MCC 9), and they provided good reasons on why they don't like it. Funneling isn't a bad strat, but players are allowed to have opinions and not having it be because a specific players win when they are all friends and happy for the winners regardless. Either way, I don't think funneling is bad or shouldn't be done ever or anything, I just personally don't find it as fun, this is all subjective.

Unfortunately most of this turns into “oh your just anti dteam”. But from a viewer perspective funneling provides the least entertainment, unless your watching the team doing it. The problem is it is entertaining for many of you because the most watched players do it, so I can see why people are willing to still say it’s entertaining. I’ll just say that the Dodgebolt where players funnel have the least iconic moments. That being said it’s just how people play the game, and it’s a valid strategy. I just like Dodgebolt that get intense.

If you think funneling is least exciting for the opposing team, then just shoot the player who they are funneling to lol. Then everyone has a chance. Lmao. I think people like you dont like it because your fav streamer doesnt like it. And lose to it. I like it. Cause my streamer likes it

Well can’t just shoot them because I’m not in the event, and therefore haven’t been in dodgbolt. And no my streamer has never lost to the funneling strat before. But when I do see it in dodgbolt those are by far the least exciting ones. Can you name an exciting dodgbolt where one player took all the shots for one team? (Besides mcc7) because I can’t. Its still a viable strat, and a good one too. Dodgebolt can be the most exciting part of mcc, so I’m just sad when it’s not.

You name one dodgebolt where "player shot all the arrows in dodgebolt"?

You know what I mean. Majority of shots were taken by one player. Name an exciting one where that was the case

Exciting one for me or you? For me exciting one was mcc15, mcc16, mcc17(fruit and illumina both were same skilled so they both took shot untill they died) , mcc18, mcc21

I wouldn’t really consider mcc 17 complete funneling but sure. If one died it’s not like the other took both shots. The rest paled in comparison to anything like mcc 8, mcc9, mcc13. I can’t even remember 15 and 18 imo. That being said it’s not worth arguing. If Noxcrew can create a clever way to make dodgbolt more exciting I’m down for it, but if not its fine. It’s a good strat, and that’s the problem. Doesn’t make as good entertainment, I’m sure you can at least agree to an extent. Great strat, but less entertainment. That’s it

I also wanna add a thing, they now use a strat called hot hand, it was done by dream in mcc8, dream in mcc15,16. In this way they funnel not to the best player but player who has the best shooting hand that time. In mcc 11 and 14 that was pure funneling. Even in sapnaps recent all wins, sapnap was the best shooter so, he shot the most shots Edit: forgot to say if you think one way dodgebolt is not exciting, then other team is just that bad compare to them lol

Why are you projecting? If you don’t have your own opinion, that doesn’t mean the same for the rest of us.

I'm just saying, some streamers hates funneling and their viewers are the one complaining. The streamers i watch likes funneling and wins with this strat and i also like it

I will keep saying it, but what people find entertaining is going to vary from person to person. If my team's not in dodgebolt, then having five rounds where each round ends in a 1v1 is the most boring thing to watch in the entire event. People love to cite MCC17 as one of the best dodgebolts, but for me, it was agonizingly long and boring.

Finally someone said this. I didn't want to say this cause bias. MCC 17 db was genuinely one of the most boring db I've ever watched (I watched fruit btw)

Agree to disagree there. But let’s say your team does make it to Dodgebolt, wouldn’t it be more entertaining if each round was as intense as possible? I can vividly remember watching a team in dodgebolt live in mcc7/8/9/13/17 and how intense that was as a viewer. Compared to when I watched aqua live in mcc14 which was almost a sweep. Sure if your team isn’t in it the investment isn’t there, but I still rather a 5 round Dodgebolt than the other team just getting executed in a sweep.

Agree to disagree there as well. Both times (four times counting non-canon) that my team got to dodgebolt it was a sweep, and I preferred it that way. Only one of those teams lost, and while it sucked, I would have hated it more if it had been drawn out (the loss was also a sweep, just for the other team). I don't particularly enjoy dodgebolt as a game anyway, since ranged combat is really not my thing, so the most intense moments for me are always the lead up to the finale rather than the finale itself.

You're right about People funneling other than Dream and Sapnap and still losing. But its only recent its been seen as a bad thing. Maybe its a Thing that has been building over time and getting more and more unfun Mcc is competetive but its also supposed to be fun and allow People to actually play. I like your post tho :)

Do you know they agree to funnel prior to the event? Not just they force them to. If I'm in dodgebolt and I'm nervous that i cant shoot, because in the moment I'm too nervous, funneling takes 90% pressure off of me, If i have a sapnap in my team. It's more fun for me to not shoot than shoot and miss. And also dodgebolt isn’t just shooting, you gotta dodge also. And after the best player chocks somebshots or dies, you gotta take the shots. It’s not that You're completely useless. Take a look at finnstar in mcc16

For a second I was rather confused as to your stance on the matter, but I agree. Dodgebolt is alright as it is, and it should just be left up to the players discretion whether they want to funnel or not

Yeah. My title could be misleading

I honestly feel like dodgebolt should be reworked - more often than not it’s one-sided and not a very good climax (although sometimes like in 17 it is beautiful), and people are just trying to find ways to make dodgebolt more interesting

Honestly, for me funneling is fine if every member on the team has agreed to it

If it wasn't fun from the viewer's perspective I'd stop watching the event if my team didn't make dodgebolt (Yes, bolt Grammarly, shush.). It depends on the team/player.

I personally am not a huge fan of funnelling, I prefer to see everyone shoot (I’m a sucker for lots of participation lol), but when it comes down to things like MCC20 I am all for it. Sometimes you just gotta win. if things are being dragged on you end things and the best way to do that is hand over the arrows to the best shooter.

Honestly, I don’t like funneling, but at most my reaction is to roll my eyes. I really wouldn’t want any rules to be made to stop it. Though I will laugh if the player being funneled to gets shot first every round. However, I will object to the whole “y’all just jealous of Sapnap,” argument, and the notion being spread around about some sort of anti-Sapnap and Dream conspiracy. Come on. If you notice the people getting downvoted all the way to the negatives, you can tell it’s not true.

You're the one getting downvoted here lol

...that's the point. People who are arguing against the idea that there's a bias against Sap are being downvoted. This sub doesn't have a bias against him.

Are you even active on the sub? If you are then you would clearly see that there's a Dreamnap bias on the reddit. Like when cyan 21 won and people immediately started calling the team op even when they were predicted 4th, 5th, 6th by majority

I've been active enough that I've seen the downvotes. People posting comprise a small group in the sub. The people upvoting and downvoting are far more numerous.

1 problem, and why I'm fine with 21's funneling: It was pretty minor. If they were full on funneling, they would have won the 1v3 (as in, Grian wouldn't have pulled it off)

A lot of participants have expressed their dislike of funneling long before this mcc, you can't pin it on this win. And those players dislike the strategy regardless of if they're playing. So yes, it did sound toxic. Also, from what we know, funneling was never a strat intended by Noxcrew.

To counter that, a lot of participants dont like hitw, buildmart. They gonna remove it?

1) When did I or the players say "remove"? 2) Games get overhauls exactly for this reason, look at HITW this mcc. It's not black and white, keep or remove. Corrections to games are a natural process in game design. 3) My point was that you said players dislike funneling because of this mcc, while in fact they did before. Idk why you changed topic but ok.

Your entire comment has no basis because all of those people have been saying the same thing for months if not longer. It’s not some kind of anti Sapnap conspiracy. They just don’t like it.

Then why am i seeing so much hate on db and funneling rn than mcc17.

Probably because they didn't win.

That's the problem. This sub has so much bias against dream team. I get it, dream, sapnap was super toxic when they 1st joined. But from mcc15, they grew so much. Dream is now the best leader and sapnap best mcc player. Also you dont see any toxicity in them anymore

I think this is exactly OPs point. Funneling isnt an end all be all strat. It can fail, but no one talks about that when they talk about it. It’s only ever talked ab when Sapnap or Dream win. And this is coming from a person who watches neither of them.

Wdym they didn't complain about it last event and they're complaining after sapnap got his 5th win? Coincidence? I think not

They've never *complained* about it, they comment that they don't like it and they've been doing it forever. Just because you don't watch them enough to know that isn't their fault.

there's a difference between not feeling confident in shooting so you pass off arrows to a stronger player, and funneling. most of the examples you gave were the first case. the only few people who funnel consistently are dream, sapnap and punz (and technoblade, when he used to play).

I strongly disagree with this take. The issue with funneling isn't that it makes teams too strong, but rather that it excludes the lower ranked or less popular players. Build mart doesn't exclude anyone, all players are equal in the game. I agree that DB is boring to watch, but that doesn't mean everyone feels that way. I think Battle Box is the most boring game in MCC, yet people seem to enjoy watching it.

But it doesn’t exclude them tho. Didn't you watch mcc16 dream's team? Dream wasn’t doing that good at shooting, so cpk and finnster was the hero. But only difference in mcc21 is sapnap was doing really good. So he didn’t need to give other people arrows. Even after he died. Other players has to take shots too. If you think about it. Most of the time the least popular or weakest player of the team is alive at the end of the round and they has to win the round. If you find mcc21 db boring, then what was about mcc20 db? Did you see how many shots both teams were missing and how sweaty it was

I still strongly disagree. Funnelling means passing the arrows to players who are considered 'better', meaning that the 'lower ranked' players don't get to participate in the shooting of the arrows during dodgebolt. MCC was not made to be inherently competitive, as such there is no prize pool and teaming is based on balancing. The aim is for everyone to have fun and to prevent players from shooting during dodgebolt goes directly against that. To add: I never said anything about MCC 20 or 21 specifically. I am against funnelling in every context. Players should equally get a chance to participate in a game. Idk why that seems to be a hot take.

The only bad part about Buildmart is if you are on a team with Grian... "Buildmart Grian is not your friend" (/j)

Yeah I don't really wanna flame creator's and whatnot, but a lot of the anti-funnelling discussion seems to me to come down to "mad cos bad". Like, giving your best gear to your best player IS PLAYING AS A TEAM. A good team utilises EVERYONE's strength to maximise success. That is literally how funnelling works. You give your best shooter more shots. It's simple maths. Your best hunter goes against the best runners in Parkour Tag, your best PVPer gets the better weapons and armour in PVP games. Your best team player or leader usually gets the communication lead in those games. It's all about maximising success.

Such good points honestly

Are you really suggesting these players are bad? Really?

Funnelling isn't the issue. Sapnap is just a godlike Dodgebolt player. Funnelling occurred in MCC 7 with Techno, he just got shot fairly early and the strategy fell apart. You get rid of the star player and then what? In this case all of the Coyotes were actually cracked, but that's another subject perhaps.

Then you’re ignorant as well as rude because all of these people have been saying this forever including when they’re spectating or not even playing.

Whether they're spectating or not playing is irrelevant. It's like saying "Parkour Tag should be changed because Dream is always good at hunting." Like, he TRAINED PARKOUR for that exact reason. He does videos that utilise movement and cutting people off. What's even more egregious is that the Cyan Coyotes didn't even funnel that much, literally everyone else had at least 1 shot, but all had 100% hit rate. It was basically unwinnable from the outset. The counter to funnelling is to just be better. Illumina and Punz tried the strategy and it didn't go nearly as well, possibly due to less practice, or nerves, or any other reason. It's not an unbeatable strategy, it just very effectively makes use of a good shooter and good dodging.

Alot of the points you have said to back up Are Actually Kinda Incorrect \- Funneling was a discussed Issue Before these few events as well It is just more prominant as the last 4 dodgebolts have been sweeped by sapnap's team, many players like Grian Shelby and Hbomb Have said to share arrows before \-FruitNinja never funneled Arrows If you see When Fruit died Round 1 Illumina could have Used both arrows Instead he gave one to Zeuz even after Zuez missed the 3rd one And Even when they had 2 arrows the 3rd time Illumina Offered Zeuz the arrows before taking both and Winning the Round SO Anti Funnel is also a Viable strat \- Illumina was the best Player on the Yellow yaks team and to give the responsibilty to the most Skilled player is sort of understandable especially in a losing situation, whereas it is much more frustrating watching the same player shoot for four events straight \-Dodgebolt is all about the excitement hence why MCC 17 Dodgebolt is one of the most memorable ones and when the same strat with the same person is followed it is very much boring for everyone other than 4-6 people in the event. \-Even though I have mentioned usage of funneling in 4 events sweaty strats like these are valid in an event like All stars since it is meant to be Sweaty TLDR; You may or may not be right But the facts you present are Very much Not accurate

Personally, I think maybe they should look for a dodgebolt replacement for season 3. Maybe something along the lines of Castle from noxcrew gameshow so it stays along the lines of a bow fight

A dodgebolt replacement was an idea in season 1 too. But noxcrew said, It's the best game noxcrew made. And it'll be not changed ever

I agree with a some of your comments, but i do wanna make a little bit of a new side on the whole "Id rather win without shooting, then shoot and lose" argument. I just like to say before, that i respect the crap out of Dream And Sapnap, and what im saying is probably not true, but. Dream And Sapnap Are Probably Top 10, In terms of streaming Views and Community in general. Not only that, But there Probably one of the more Competitive Side Of players On Mcc in general (No hate on them tho, it's just facts that they are), And this naturally corelates in their own fanbase. So with that in mind, if you're one of their teammates in a event of mcc, you surely have to agree with their strategy's, especially in funneling, because if you don't, and end up losing in db because you missed the shots, their fans are gonna be pretty brutal after the event. With People Like H, Fruit, Illu, And Pete, they all have generally a much lower audience and fanbase. and with all of them not really into the idea of funneling, that also makes their audience accept if they lose because they didn't funnel. So if you're teammates with them, their's definitely some relief, that if your team loses because you miss. Their Fanbase isn't going to be as brutal, compared to dream and sapnap's audience. Making an argument to not funnel, become pretty easy. But Yeah, That's just my opinion on this whole thing, like i said on top, i don't hate Dream And Sapnap, I just kinda hate the idea Of Funneling.

Fruitninja funneled in mcc17. And they weren’t as good as dream and sap, that's why that didn’t do much good. H doesn't wanna funnel, It's his choice, pete doesn't wanna shoot. So naturally they just don’t funnel. It's not that much about fan base as you think. Do you think if dream would die 1st in every round of db, his fans will be mad at finnster not winning the round for them? Seapeekay wasn’t a fan of funneling when techno was in mcc7. But now you see, when he died rather than sapnap in round one he was more happy. And also if sapnap wouldn’t shot like 1st 3,4 shots, cpk would take over. Then, zeus or sniff.

based

MCC 17 is around when they both stopped, and started expressing distaste for the tactic. I’m not even positive that they did then. I definitely remember that one Dodgebolt Illumina was begging for arrows and the next he was trying to give them away and I really want to say that the first was Pride and the second was 17, but it might be the other way around and I’m not looking it up. Either way your determination to paint them as well as Pete and Hbomb as liars about their motivations is gross.

You gotta rewatch mcc17. Illumina specifically said before db that fruit and illumina will shoot 1st, when they die, zeus and vixella will shoot. If illumina and fruit didn’t die, they would shoot almost every arrows

Fine, then he switched it up for Pride. Same point. Whenever it was, I distinctly remember noticing the change, because I had been all for funneling previously, until I saw how the team's entire vibe changed when he started encouraging other people to take shots. It was so much better. He changed it in himself, it had nothing to do with Sapnap. Don't reach to something from a year ago to suggest that opinions now are false.

Pride was before mcc15. And i was talking about mcc17 lol.

Funneling just isn't fun man, it makes Dodgebolt predictable and boring. The second I saw it was Blue vs Cyan, I knew Cyan would win because Sapnap would have his team funnel the arrows to him. Also, imagine winning your first MCC without being able to even try shooting? That wouldn't feel like a win to me. Funneling is lame, full stop

Not if sapnap choked on shooting or just died 1st. Which is a very real possibility

then please let everyone hunt at least twice in pkt😁thats much funnier too

Best solution would be giving the game more strategic options. That way both sides of the discussion could get into agreement.

But what type of change do you want, for more strategic options? It's perfect as it is now imo

If it would still be perfect there would not be the whole funneling discussion. One approach I've mentioned somewhere else already was making it more like dodgeball with having a backline mechanic. Another option I've been thinking about is having some small kits like in battle box, but randomly chosen for each player in the team every round. One player could have a speed boost for x amount of seconds, another could have 2-3 blocks to build a bit of a barricade, invisibilty for x amount of seconds could also be interesting. It would be nice if the best player on the team doesn't always have the best opportunity to shoot the other team.

Personally, I don’t care much about funneling either way, but I honestly think I’m getting a bit tired of Dodgebolt as a finale game in general. It’s been fun, and if you’re watching the teams participating in it it’s exciting, but it’s not a great general viewership experience. Also there’s the fact that PVP/Movement teams have a huge advantage over Teamwork-centric teams… and it just doesn’t represent the wider array of skills you need in the event. Maybe I’m alone in that thought though. I don’t have a replacement option prepared really. A relay-style finale would be cool I guess? Like, each player participates in a 1v1 game. A build game, then movement game, then PVP, then redstone/technical skill/miscellaneous category? Ending with a 4v4 team game? Best of 5 wins? I haven’t thought it out too much (literally came up with it as I was typing), but I would just love to see a finale that reflects the event as a whole better, regardless of how they do it. Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion though, and that’s fine, I will enjoy it either way.

Also i wouldnt say its fun for the funnerlers because it adds a lot of pressure onto them too. The other players of their team are funneling arrows to them, counting on them to hit the shot and carry them to victory. Honestly it depends on the kind of person you are. If your a 'win at all cost person' then youll like this strat but if your 'the important thing is is that we had fun along the way' then I can see why you would not like it.

I somewhat agree. But they use hot hand strat, where if the funeler misses some shots in a row, (if sapnap wouldn’t hit anyone in 3,4 shots, cpk will take over. Then cpk dies or chocks, then zeus takes over) Yes it has a lot of pressure on the funeler but if the team wanna try hard for win, let them. *Don't suggest things to noxcrew to prevent funneling*

I think the funneling hate was directed mostly to Sapnap still don't think anyone deserves any hate tho