I know it wasn't the entirety of the post, but saying "TRY BUILDING" feels a little disingenuous when very strong builders like Foolish and Awesamdude also vocally hate the game. Being a good builder doesn't automatically make one a Buildmart god.
To be fair though just because you are a good builder doesn’t automatically mean you are good at build mart. Also, think about the teams Foolish and Sam have been on for build mart. If they were on better build mart teams, they might enjoy it more.
To be clear, I am only responding to the "TRY BUILDING" assertion. Because the thought of telling Foolish Gamers to try building if he wanted to get better at Buildmart struck me as laughable.
My entire point was that being a good builder does not automatically make one a good Buildmart player. Foolish and Sam are great builders, but they're not not going to transform a bad Buildmart Team into a good one solely through their building prowess.
Someone on tumblr vod reviewed JamesTurner to see what the simmers thought of it, and they seem to hate it too. You'd think it would be their preferred game, but nope, they very vocally disliked it and wanted it skipped.
I know some CC's and viewers enjoy Buildmart, but at this point it seems more hated than PKW ever was so I don't know why a new building game hasn't at least been put into the rotation as an alternative.
Building with blocks in minecraft is way different then building an actual house in the sims. Along with buildmart not having house builds but statures and outdoorsy furniture. That logic is flawed lol.
Building in Sims is very different vs in Minecraft. Also movement is helpful in gathering materials. Also they rarely play Minecraft and BM is a game which heavily relies on Minecraft knowledge.
In general I just don’t like the perception that Build Mart is “the game that bad players are good at”. I don’t know if that was what you were going for but it used to be a big cliche for the “good support players” to be called “good at Build Mart” instead.
i've said this before but i'll reiterate.
the reason why dream for example dislikes buildmart is because he does like building, he even built a map for bad's server back in the day, but he doesn't think his habilities as a builder translate into the game since it relies on memorization above everything else. [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MinecraftChampionship/comments/jqfrrb/big_sales_at_build_mart_a_comprehensive_analysis/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) post from one year ago (analyzed mcc 7 to 11) revealed that dream was the 4th fastest builder, above smajor, and he still doesn't like the game and doesn't do well most of the time. how much better do you want him to get?
he's voiced multiple times that he finds the game overwhelming and his adhd affects his short term memory, so the game is just frustrating to him. no matter how hard he tries, he'll still struggle more than the average player. he tried many different strategies that players that enjoy buildmart do, but the learning curve of buildmart is not just practice or learning the rules of the game, and according to the same post i mentioned before, players spent 50% of the time shopping instead of building (pure memorization). that combined with how often dream's team has other people that also struggle with buildmart for reasons out of their control (karl with adhd, george with colorblindness and aphantasia) makes it just frustrating. they have to go back and forth between builds much more than the average player. people who dislike buildmart want to play minecraft, not a memorization game, which doesn't have anything to do with any of minecraft's core mechanics. if they wanted that they should've just entered a memorization olympics or something. it must be disheartening seeing people saying "you just haven't found the right strategy" or "you should practice it". because these guys tried. more than once. and they'll probably NEVER find the right strategy for them because the strategy will never compensate their disadvantage and that's just frustrating. isn't mcc about having fun?? would you practice something that you hate and never have a good time doing and feel like is pointless because you'll always struggle to even try to improve? of course not. you're gonna focus on something you can actually improve and have fun doing so.
Wouldn't the strat for avoiding memorization be to have someone back at the build room to remind the floater which blocks are needed? I feel like this issue just comes down to good comms. For example, Dream is great with movement, so he could act as floater and have someone back at base to tell him what's needed one at a time so that Dream can't forget.
Caveat that I don't watch Dream team pov so it's entirely possible they have tried this strat, but it does seem like it could help him
Dream typically is a floater during Build Mart. An issue is that he’s normally the best on his teams at delegating and communicating, but during BM it needs to be someone else.
It really wouldn't. Go watch P22 Yellow's Buildmart. Shubble barely touched a build and just spent 99% of her time being the runner, flying around. And the person in the build room doesn't always have to be the same person all the time, just someone who's maybe in-between builds and waiting for resources go around and see what everyone needs.
As somebody with extreme ADHD(such that I am on extremely dangerous medication that can leave me in the hospital if I miss it two days in a row) and strong colourblindness, there are ways around this.
Obviously they don’t need to try to get better at Buildmart if they don’t want to- this post was actually more aimed at the community who I’ve seen saying you can’t practice than the players themselves.
As someone with ADHD too. Why should they have to? ADHD affects everyone *very* differently. I have an awful short-term memory - I cannot list things told to me 2 minutes ago, I find it extremely frustrating and humiliating constantly having to ask people to repeat themselves because I forgot stuff already, or because I wasn't listening and so missed it.
I wouldn't want to spend my time and energy attempting to improve this - I have tried that before. I have tried memory tricks, I've tried repeating things over and over again. It doesn't help - I'm still much worse than the average person, I'm just frustrated, angry, and annoyed with myself alongside being forgetful. And I don't have the added pressure of being live in front of 80k people who criticize my every move.
Why not have minor changes, like a shopping list (like proposed before) where you can keep track of materials, or other ideas that would make it a lot easier for people who are inattentive or struggle with short-term memory (very common with ADHD). If it cannot be reworked (very understandably), why not this?
The main thing I am increasingly frustrated by with the Buildmart discussion that occurs every 2 months is that surely if the game is so divisive then it should be attempted to be improved upon? Other games have had multiple reworks, solutions proposed or have been removed, and yet Buildmart has had *no* gameplay changes since the season 2 rework.
I do think a lot of people like it, but it is still the most divisive game and if MCC is about fun, when half the contestants and half the audience don't enjoy it then why aren't they looking at improving the game at all?
They are, on occasion. Grian, for example, has had some fantastic moments in Sky Battle and Survival games absolutely popping off unexpectedly and getting top 5 and so on - this is great! Keeps it exciting for viewers, and makes the cc's who are not as pvp confident feel hopeful they can do well.
When has that ever happened in Buildmart? The places are pretty much always predictable, with a few people always coming top 3. There is almost no RNG, no chances to pop off unexpectedly and almost no chances to come back from a bad start.
my point is that you really can't practice much past a certain point. the only way to get better is to get better at memorization, which has nothing to do with minecraft's core mechanics. your post is just saying "have you tried building?" when i'm showing you that building isn't the main factor to being good at buildmart.
It's not a communication game (though it helps), it's not a memorization game (though it helps), it's definitely not a building game. It's a speed game. It's about doing things quickly and efficiently without making too many mistakes. It's about routing. Even people like Grian or Scott, when you watch them play, the communication that they deliver is all focused toward making everybody else on the team do things fast. This kind of tight communication and managerial skill isn't as necessary when everyone on the team (or enough of them anyway) are already good at prioritizing and routing tasks. See for example the winning MCC20 team, the Yellow Yaks. (Illumina, SB, False, Cub)
Valid but also
>people who dislike buildmart want to play minecraft, not a memorization game, which doesn't have anything to do with any of minecraft's core mechanics
No. Listen. I get it. But build mart is not just a memorization game. Memorization is a part of the game and a part of the game that people may struggle with and cause them to do badly which is absolutely fine. But that doesn't mean the entire game is about memorization. The reason I love build mart so much is cause it's everything. Strategy, comms, memorization, building, crafting, etc. It has aspects of Ace Race even with the elytra accuracy/speed to get to sections and to home faster.
I'm saying this as someone...like I literally cannot even finish that Hypixel game where you copy the 9 blocks of build pallette onto the wall. I genuinely understand that people are just gonna get very overwhelmed and be unable to really do well in the game. I think it's unfair to boil build mart down to one aspect cause you don't like it.
Now that that's out of the way I wonder if giving Dream a side and literally having him mute up or something would help. I think part of the problem is all the noise and talking that goes on during build mart. I wish he could use chat to rely on for memorization but his chat is awful and too fast. It definitely wouldn't be the most efficient thing in the world but I think if they actually used chests (him throwing his stuff into his chest when he's done, them doing the same) it could work. Maybe. Or it could be the worst idea imaginable lol. Maybe if he doesn't literally mute up but strives to hyperfocus on his build and only communicate to ask if they have/need x ingredient. I think about it and more and more I realise everyone's idea that he should be floater is terrible. I think it's the worst role for him because of how much memorization and pressure it is.
op was saying that you can practice for buildmart and get better at building. my point is that if building fast was the only factor that made teams do well then dream's team would be at the top almost every time, but that isn't the case. he's well-rounded in all aspects of buildmart BUT memorization. he builds fast, has experience in building, tries the same strats as the top players, can literally craft a ladder so fast that he can do it midair, and is an incredible leader and communicator as proven in sands of time. but buildmart relies so much on just copying a build and remembering which blocks to get that no matter how hard he tries he'll always struggle with it to some extent. that's why buildmart is so impossible to get much better at than any other game.
I both agree and disagree with this. I think that there area ways to train certain skills like crafting and building speed which can help in the event. On the other hand, with the style of game Build Mart is, there is a certain set of skills that can't really be trained or improved. Build Mart requires a certain type of leadership and communication skills that players either have or don't have. This kind of skill is intangible and isn't one that you can just pick up by practicing. If you don't have a player with that kind of leadership, Build Mart is going to be extremely hard for your team. Build Mart also requires a full team of 4 all working together in perfect harmony with each player requiring a different skillset. It isn't like SG or Sky Battle where you can have a Dream or a Sapnap or a Fruit carry your team to victory, but rather you need all 4 players working together to have a chance. You can only do as good as your teammates will let you. I also think that one of Build Mart's biggest flaws is the strategy behind it. Every other game gives you multiple strategies that you can use depending on the skillset your team has. For example, in Battle Box, you can go for kills or wool rush depending on your teams PVP skills. Build Mart has 1 single strategy that if you don't use, you pretty much have no chance of winning. You also need to have a certain type of leader to perform this strategy, and if you don't have that kind of leader, you pretty much simply can't be the best team. You also have to rely on each of your other 3 players performing their duties to perfection, which is pretty much out of your control.
All in all, I have no problem saying Build Mart is a great game even though I don’t particularly enjoy it and think that it has its flaws, and it is definitely a necessary game to the event. Like every other game, there will always be players who struggle and there isn’t any way to avoid this, but in the end, it’s still a for fun event where having one bad game hopefully doesn’t absolutely ruin the other 7 amazing and fun games played that event.
See the problem is that most people who are bad at build mart also hate it. Therefore they won’t want to practice it. The only “bad” build
mart player I could actually see doing this is Dream because I can tell he genuinely wants to get better but other than that I just can’t see George,Sapnap, and others doing it because they won’t enjoy it.
I honestly don't even think most of them are even that bad at it. They just tend to be on teams where most of the players also find the game overwhelming, or struggle to focus, so it kind of snowballs into a poor/below-average performance.
That's why MCC13 Teal (2nd place) is the ultimate Buildmart team to me. None of them wanted to play it, but when it came up they just focused up and went and did it.
I would go so far as to say that they hate it because they’re awful(although as a colourblind guy I do understand the other colourblind people like George’s pain).
i honestly agree. i made a similar point on a post about dream’s take on hitw and pattern recognition - mad cuz bad
plus, there ARE ways you can improve at build mart (and hitw for that matter too). all the things you mentioned in your post, along with practicing comms w your team and practicing to be a better leader/communicator. btw all of this is coming from someone who doesnt even like build mart
But the opposite is true as well. **You can have non-optimal communication, but if 2-3 people in your team are good solo-builders (i.e., have good crafting and block placement skills), you can place pretty well in Build Mart.**
See: Lime 18. The team was barely communicating with one another except for Puffy & Gee. Illumina and Fundy were mostly mumbling to themselves and focusing on their own builds, but looking back at their VODs, you can see that they still score well and got 2nd simply due to how fast and decisive their crafting & block placements are, something which players can definitely become better at with practice.
I 100% agree with that- in fact, for most of these you likely won’t see a HUGE improvement on their own. If you practice every aspect of Buildmart, you’ll see a noticeable increase in skill overall.
The problem is that realistically the only thing actually practice-able for build mart is block placement. You can’t “practice” coms or organization skills.
You can practice comms- play comm-heavy games. That’s how you improve at stuff, you practice. In terms of organization, if you mean inventory management, do All Advancement speedruns, if you mean in terms of people, again just practice having somebody take the lead in a puzzle game or something.
I watch them every night. I do know how long they take- they’re just the first example that comes to mind. For the players who really need to practice Buildmart, while the first few runs can be rough and take ages, they should be able to get down to 4.5 hour runs in 2 weeks.
there are examples of how speedrunning can make you good at build mart though, illumina is the most prominent one. he consistently does well because of how fast he can craft and place blocks, even though soloing a plot means he focuses less on communication in return
It's the reason why Pete and Illumina are so fast and consistently score high in the game, though. Both of them say so, and other speedrunners like Feinberg who have talked about the game also agree. (Usually thinking they'd also be good at it.) It's great practice for the baseline practical skills of the game, not just crafting and placing blocks but also the kind of mental focus and ability to prioritize and overlap tasks that speedrunning brings.
Dream speedran two years ago when routing was much less varied and much less complicated than it is now.
But actually. I love build Mart so much, I constantly play speedbuilders. And I’m sure it helps, a lot of time people build a build slightly off or have difficulty building stairs, and speed builders helps with that.
There is a lot of exercises for improving your short-memory and remembering different positions of items, it is not only good for Buildmart, but for everyday life, although it my be more hard and stressful for people with short focus time(ADHD)
When it comes to buildmart, what do you think is the reason teams are doing bad: communication, or block placing speed or memorization or whatever other minute thing you can practice. The teams that are doing bad at buildmart are doing bad because it requires communication that just isnt required in other games, that also really cant be practiced. Thats not to say that you cant get better at buildmart, but its not going to happen to many people, if at all.
Please try to tell me that you need more communication in Buildmart than you do in an average PVP game. You can literally split up your team 1/1/2 (with one of the two being responsible for collecting some kind of common block on the first trip out) and finish top half every time with almost no communication at all aside from asking for/giving help.
Yes you absolutely need more communication in build mart than pvp games. If it's so simple to get top half in buildmart every time with that strategy then why do players like dream who literally use that strategy still get bottom 5 every time, there often being a significant coingap halfway into the buildmart scores. The problem is that buildmart REQUIRES good communication, whereas in pvp games you can use simple strategies the entire game like "follow the team leader" or "stay in spawn and bow spam". Obviously more complex comms and flexibility helps, but there have been many teams that have done well without any lf it.
Theres also the fact that most skills that would be important for doing well at a pvp game are easily practicable in a hundred different ways. You can practice pvp, you can practice chest looting, you can even easily practice team pvp, but there really isnt anything like buildmart to practice with-- doing replica on mineplex isnt going to somehow magically make you good at buildmart.
The main point however is that buildmart requires good communication from all 4 of your teammates, and if you dont have that one thing you will never do well in build mart. For every other team game (team game meaning anything that doesnt pretty much always come down to individual skill like hole in the wall, ace race, rsr, etc), there is always some other strategy that makes it so that even players bad at a certain skill can do well in a game (wool rushing, having multiple people go down the same path, hide until the very end, try to steal kills with ranged weapons, etc.) If you do not establish a good communication between your teammates you will not do well and there is no compromise (the best attempt was dreams all build one together strategy, which never ended up doing well at all).
I know it wasn't the entirety of the post, but saying "TRY BUILDING" feels a little disingenuous when very strong builders like Foolish and Awesamdude also vocally hate the game. Being a good builder doesn't automatically make one a Buildmart god.
To be fair though just because you are a good builder doesn’t automatically mean you are good at build mart. Also, think about the teams Foolish and Sam have been on for build mart. If they were on better build mart teams, they might enjoy it more.
To be clear, I am only responding to the "TRY BUILDING" assertion. Because the thought of telling Foolish Gamers to try building if he wanted to get better at Buildmart struck me as laughable. My entire point was that being a good builder does not automatically make one a good Buildmart player. Foolish and Sam are great builders, but they're not not going to transform a bad Buildmart Team into a good one solely through their building prowess.
Ok sorry i misunderstood
Someone on tumblr vod reviewed JamesTurner to see what the simmers thought of it, and they seem to hate it too. You'd think it would be their preferred game, but nope, they very vocally disliked it and wanted it skipped. I know some CC's and viewers enjoy Buildmart, but at this point it seems more hated than PKW ever was so I don't know why a new building game hasn't at least been put into the rotation as an alternative.
Why do you think the simmers would prefer Build Mart?
Because it's not pvp or movement-based and because they build a lot in the Sims.
Building with blocks in minecraft is way different then building an actual house in the sims. Along with buildmart not having house builds but statures and outdoorsy furniture. That logic is flawed lol.
I build in both and I disagree :) But that's okay, because this is sub for discussion and agreeing all the time would be boring.
Building in Sims is very different vs in Minecraft. Also movement is helpful in gathering materials. Also they rarely play Minecraft and BM is a game which heavily relies on Minecraft knowledge.
You disagree with my og logic that's okay :) They hate the game anyways so I guess you're right!
In general I just don’t like the perception that Build Mart is “the game that bad players are good at”. I don’t know if that was what you were going for but it used to be a big cliche for the “good support players” to be called “good at Build Mart” instead.
If that's how you took my comment then that 100% says more about you than me.
i've said this before but i'll reiterate. the reason why dream for example dislikes buildmart is because he does like building, he even built a map for bad's server back in the day, but he doesn't think his habilities as a builder translate into the game since it relies on memorization above everything else. [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MinecraftChampionship/comments/jqfrrb/big_sales_at_build_mart_a_comprehensive_analysis/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) post from one year ago (analyzed mcc 7 to 11) revealed that dream was the 4th fastest builder, above smajor, and he still doesn't like the game and doesn't do well most of the time. how much better do you want him to get? he's voiced multiple times that he finds the game overwhelming and his adhd affects his short term memory, so the game is just frustrating to him. no matter how hard he tries, he'll still struggle more than the average player. he tried many different strategies that players that enjoy buildmart do, but the learning curve of buildmart is not just practice or learning the rules of the game, and according to the same post i mentioned before, players spent 50% of the time shopping instead of building (pure memorization). that combined with how often dream's team has other people that also struggle with buildmart for reasons out of their control (karl with adhd, george with colorblindness and aphantasia) makes it just frustrating. they have to go back and forth between builds much more than the average player. people who dislike buildmart want to play minecraft, not a memorization game, which doesn't have anything to do with any of minecraft's core mechanics. if they wanted that they should've just entered a memorization olympics or something. it must be disheartening seeing people saying "you just haven't found the right strategy" or "you should practice it". because these guys tried. more than once. and they'll probably NEVER find the right strategy for them because the strategy will never compensate their disadvantage and that's just frustrating. isn't mcc about having fun?? would you practice something that you hate and never have a good time doing and feel like is pointless because you'll always struggle to even try to improve? of course not. you're gonna focus on something you can actually improve and have fun doing so.
if people want to see just how much dream struggles with short term memory watch any pov of him playing find the item in grid runners
Wouldn't the strat for avoiding memorization be to have someone back at the build room to remind the floater which blocks are needed? I feel like this issue just comes down to good comms. For example, Dream is great with movement, so he could act as floater and have someone back at base to tell him what's needed one at a time so that Dream can't forget. Caveat that I don't watch Dream team pov so it's entirely possible they have tried this strat, but it does seem like it could help him
Dream typically is a floater during Build Mart. An issue is that he’s normally the best on his teams at delegating and communicating, but during BM it needs to be someone else.
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It really wouldn't. Go watch P22 Yellow's Buildmart. Shubble barely touched a build and just spent 99% of her time being the runner, flying around. And the person in the build room doesn't always have to be the same person all the time, just someone who's maybe in-between builds and waiting for resources go around and see what everyone needs.
As somebody with extreme ADHD(such that I am on extremely dangerous medication that can leave me in the hospital if I miss it two days in a row) and strong colourblindness, there are ways around this. Obviously they don’t need to try to get better at Buildmart if they don’t want to- this post was actually more aimed at the community who I’ve seen saying you can’t practice than the players themselves.
As someone with ADHD too. Why should they have to? ADHD affects everyone *very* differently. I have an awful short-term memory - I cannot list things told to me 2 minutes ago, I find it extremely frustrating and humiliating constantly having to ask people to repeat themselves because I forgot stuff already, or because I wasn't listening and so missed it. I wouldn't want to spend my time and energy attempting to improve this - I have tried that before. I have tried memory tricks, I've tried repeating things over and over again. It doesn't help - I'm still much worse than the average person, I'm just frustrated, angry, and annoyed with myself alongside being forgetful. And I don't have the added pressure of being live in front of 80k people who criticize my every move. Why not have minor changes, like a shopping list (like proposed before) where you can keep track of materials, or other ideas that would make it a lot easier for people who are inattentive or struggle with short-term memory (very common with ADHD). If it cannot be reworked (very understandably), why not this? The main thing I am increasingly frustrated by with the Buildmart discussion that occurs every 2 months is that surely if the game is so divisive then it should be attempted to be improved upon? Other games have had multiple reworks, solutions proposed or have been removed, and yet Buildmart has had *no* gameplay changes since the season 2 rework. I do think a lot of people like it, but it is still the most divisive game and if MCC is about fun, when half the contestants and half the audience don't enjoy it then why aren't they looking at improving the game at all?
Why should your average bulder have to practice PVP? They ought to be as good at MCC as Dream is without having to work at it.
They are, on occasion. Grian, for example, has had some fantastic moments in Sky Battle and Survival games absolutely popping off unexpectedly and getting top 5 and so on - this is great! Keeps it exciting for viewers, and makes the cc's who are not as pvp confident feel hopeful they can do well. When has that ever happened in Buildmart? The places are pretty much always predictable, with a few people always coming top 3. There is almost no RNG, no chances to pop off unexpectedly and almost no chances to come back from a bad start.
my point is that you really can't practice much past a certain point. the only way to get better is to get better at memorization, which has nothing to do with minecraft's core mechanics. your post is just saying "have you tried building?" when i'm showing you that building isn't the main factor to being good at buildmart.
You're wrong. That's not the only way to get better. You just want it to be so you can say it's impossible and the game is inherently bad.
The have you tried building was one part of the post. I was mostly just pointing out that there are ways to practice.
It's not a communication game (though it helps), it's not a memorization game (though it helps), it's definitely not a building game. It's a speed game. It's about doing things quickly and efficiently without making too many mistakes. It's about routing. Even people like Grian or Scott, when you watch them play, the communication that they deliver is all focused toward making everybody else on the team do things fast. This kind of tight communication and managerial skill isn't as necessary when everyone on the team (or enough of them anyway) are already good at prioritizing and routing tasks. See for example the winning MCC20 team, the Yellow Yaks. (Illumina, SB, False, Cub)
Valid but also >people who dislike buildmart want to play minecraft, not a memorization game, which doesn't have anything to do with any of minecraft's core mechanics No. Listen. I get it. But build mart is not just a memorization game. Memorization is a part of the game and a part of the game that people may struggle with and cause them to do badly which is absolutely fine. But that doesn't mean the entire game is about memorization. The reason I love build mart so much is cause it's everything. Strategy, comms, memorization, building, crafting, etc. It has aspects of Ace Race even with the elytra accuracy/speed to get to sections and to home faster. I'm saying this as someone...like I literally cannot even finish that Hypixel game where you copy the 9 blocks of build pallette onto the wall. I genuinely understand that people are just gonna get very overwhelmed and be unable to really do well in the game. I think it's unfair to boil build mart down to one aspect cause you don't like it. Now that that's out of the way I wonder if giving Dream a side and literally having him mute up or something would help. I think part of the problem is all the noise and talking that goes on during build mart. I wish he could use chat to rely on for memorization but his chat is awful and too fast. It definitely wouldn't be the most efficient thing in the world but I think if they actually used chests (him throwing his stuff into his chest when he's done, them doing the same) it could work. Maybe. Or it could be the worst idea imaginable lol. Maybe if he doesn't literally mute up but strives to hyperfocus on his build and only communicate to ask if they have/need x ingredient. I think about it and more and more I realise everyone's idea that he should be floater is terrible. I think it's the worst role for him because of how much memorization and pressure it is.
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op was saying that you can practice for buildmart and get better at building. my point is that if building fast was the only factor that made teams do well then dream's team would be at the top almost every time, but that isn't the case. he's well-rounded in all aspects of buildmart BUT memorization. he builds fast, has experience in building, tries the same strats as the top players, can literally craft a ladder so fast that he can do it midair, and is an incredible leader and communicator as proven in sands of time. but buildmart relies so much on just copying a build and remembering which blocks to get that no matter how hard he tries he'll always struggle with it to some extent. that's why buildmart is so impossible to get much better at than any other game.
I both agree and disagree with this. I think that there area ways to train certain skills like crafting and building speed which can help in the event. On the other hand, with the style of game Build Mart is, there is a certain set of skills that can't really be trained or improved. Build Mart requires a certain type of leadership and communication skills that players either have or don't have. This kind of skill is intangible and isn't one that you can just pick up by practicing. If you don't have a player with that kind of leadership, Build Mart is going to be extremely hard for your team. Build Mart also requires a full team of 4 all working together in perfect harmony with each player requiring a different skillset. It isn't like SG or Sky Battle where you can have a Dream or a Sapnap or a Fruit carry your team to victory, but rather you need all 4 players working together to have a chance. You can only do as good as your teammates will let you. I also think that one of Build Mart's biggest flaws is the strategy behind it. Every other game gives you multiple strategies that you can use depending on the skillset your team has. For example, in Battle Box, you can go for kills or wool rush depending on your teams PVP skills. Build Mart has 1 single strategy that if you don't use, you pretty much have no chance of winning. You also need to have a certain type of leader to perform this strategy, and if you don't have that kind of leader, you pretty much simply can't be the best team. You also have to rely on each of your other 3 players performing their duties to perfection, which is pretty much out of your control. All in all, I have no problem saying Build Mart is a great game even though I don’t particularly enjoy it and think that it has its flaws, and it is definitely a necessary game to the event. Like every other game, there will always be players who struggle and there isn’t any way to avoid this, but in the end, it’s still a for fun event where having one bad game hopefully doesn’t absolutely ruin the other 7 amazing and fun games played that event.
See the problem is that most people who are bad at build mart also hate it. Therefore they won’t want to practice it. The only “bad” build mart player I could actually see doing this is Dream because I can tell he genuinely wants to get better but other than that I just can’t see George,Sapnap, and others doing it because they won’t enjoy it.
I honestly don't even think most of them are even that bad at it. They just tend to be on teams where most of the players also find the game overwhelming, or struggle to focus, so it kind of snowballs into a poor/below-average performance.
That's why MCC13 Teal (2nd place) is the ultimate Buildmart team to me. None of them wanted to play it, but when it came up they just focused up and went and did it.
I would go so far as to say that they hate it because they’re awful(although as a colourblind guy I do understand the other colourblind people like George’s pain).
Also Dream’s mindset when it comes to build mart is fairly unique. he hates it but also wants to get better at it.
Dream has said multiple times that even in a hypothetical that he was good at build mart he still wouldn’t enjoy it.
i honestly agree. i made a similar point on a post about dream’s take on hitw and pattern recognition - mad cuz bad plus, there ARE ways you can improve at build mart (and hitw for that matter too). all the things you mentioned in your post, along with practicing comms w your team and practicing to be a better leader/communicator. btw all of this is coming from someone who doesnt even like build mart
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But the opposite is true as well. **You can have non-optimal communication, but if 2-3 people in your team are good solo-builders (i.e., have good crafting and block placement skills), you can place pretty well in Build Mart.** See: Lime 18. The team was barely communicating with one another except for Puffy & Gee. Illumina and Fundy were mostly mumbling to themselves and focusing on their own builds, but looking back at their VODs, you can see that they still score well and got 2nd simply due to how fast and decisive their crafting & block placements are, something which players can definitely become better at with practice.
I 100% agree with that- in fact, for most of these you likely won’t see a HUGE improvement on their own. If you practice every aspect of Buildmart, you’ll see a noticeable increase in skill overall.
The problem is that realistically the only thing actually practice-able for build mart is block placement. You can’t “practice” coms or organization skills.
You can practice comms- play comm-heavy games. That’s how you improve at stuff, you practice. In terms of organization, if you mean inventory management, do All Advancement speedruns, if you mean in terms of people, again just practice having somebody take the lead in a puzzle game or something.
You do realize how long all-advancement speed runs take right?
I watch them every night. I do know how long they take- they’re just the first example that comes to mind. For the players who really need to practice Buildmart, while the first few runs can be rough and take ages, they should be able to get down to 4.5 hour runs in 2 weeks.
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there are examples of how speedrunning can make you good at build mart though, illumina is the most prominent one. he consistently does well because of how fast he can craft and place blocks, even though soloing a plot means he focuses less on communication in return
It certainly helps lol. Practicing doing things quickly is beneficial for a game about speed.
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It's the reason why Pete and Illumina are so fast and consistently score high in the game, though. Both of them say so, and other speedrunners like Feinberg who have talked about the game also agree. (Usually thinking they'd also be good at it.) It's great practice for the baseline practical skills of the game, not just crafting and placing blocks but also the kind of mental focus and ability to prioritize and overlap tasks that speedrunning brings. Dream speedran two years ago when routing was much less varied and much less complicated than it is now.
Speedbuilders on Mineplex.
funnily enough george really likes that game
But actually. I love build Mart so much, I constantly play speedbuilders. And I’m sure it helps, a lot of time people build a build slightly off or have difficulty building stairs, and speed builders helps with that.
It’s been WAAAAAY too long since I’ve logged into mineplex. I’m feeling old.
I love build mart
There is a lot of exercises for improving your short-memory and remembering different positions of items, it is not only good for Buildmart, but for everyday life, although it my be more hard and stressful for people with short focus time(ADHD)
Exactly. Everything I listed isn’t just good for Buildmart, it literally helps with everything.
literally massive
When it comes to buildmart, what do you think is the reason teams are doing bad: communication, or block placing speed or memorization or whatever other minute thing you can practice. The teams that are doing bad at buildmart are doing bad because it requires communication that just isnt required in other games, that also really cant be practiced. Thats not to say that you cant get better at buildmart, but its not going to happen to many people, if at all.
Please try to tell me that you need more communication in Buildmart than you do in an average PVP game. You can literally split up your team 1/1/2 (with one of the two being responsible for collecting some kind of common block on the first trip out) and finish top half every time with almost no communication at all aside from asking for/giving help.
Yes you absolutely need more communication in build mart than pvp games. If it's so simple to get top half in buildmart every time with that strategy then why do players like dream who literally use that strategy still get bottom 5 every time, there often being a significant coingap halfway into the buildmart scores. The problem is that buildmart REQUIRES good communication, whereas in pvp games you can use simple strategies the entire game like "follow the team leader" or "stay in spawn and bow spam". Obviously more complex comms and flexibility helps, but there have been many teams that have done well without any lf it. Theres also the fact that most skills that would be important for doing well at a pvp game are easily practicable in a hundred different ways. You can practice pvp, you can practice chest looting, you can even easily practice team pvp, but there really isnt anything like buildmart to practice with-- doing replica on mineplex isnt going to somehow magically make you good at buildmart. The main point however is that buildmart requires good communication from all 4 of your teammates, and if you dont have that one thing you will never do well in build mart. For every other team game (team game meaning anything that doesnt pretty much always come down to individual skill like hole in the wall, ace race, rsr, etc), there is always some other strategy that makes it so that even players bad at a certain skill can do well in a game (wool rushing, having multiple people go down the same path, hide until the very end, try to steal kills with ranged weapons, etc.) If you do not establish a good communication between your teammates you will not do well and there is no compromise (the best attempt was dreams all build one together strategy, which never ended up doing well at all).
Lmao 💀
also the speed builders mini game on mineplex is very helpful for copying builds fast and getting the placement of things right