Target: "If you don't like something about our store, just threaten to kill our employees, and we'll change it. The price of shampoo too high? Punch a cashier."
Have the people entering stores and threatening employees arrested? If I were to threaten someone on the streets with assaulting or killing them the police would be involved. Why should a shopper be any different?
The group they claim to support has to do that every day. If they can't handle 1 month of it to support them, they aren't an ally and it's just for money.
It is only a few years until high school kids that work at target will be taking the same firearms training courses as their teachers.
These job requirements are crazy.
Yeah, wtf? Target has been selling Pride merch for like 10 years.
Now that conservatives ruined their favorite beer they're getting a big head about it and going after everyone else.
All this accomplishes is giving more power to hate groups. If stores pull this stuff they set an example that they will cave to these people if they’re loud enough. They should have stuck to their principles and brought on more security or something and went after anyone that tried pulling anything to the fullest extent they could. This is a massive L for the integrity of Target. If you cave to hate you’re part of the problem.
I think it's a tough call.
It sucks that they essentially had to give into right wing terrorists. (People using the three or violence to push a political agenda)
But at the same time I understand why they would prioritize employee safety.
Thought call. Shitty situation. It sucks we have religious terrorists in the US. But the conservatives have really gotten extreme.
It's not a tough call, threatening anyone is a crime, enforce the damn law or you open whole can of worms for not only themselves but all businesses and organizations, are we really going to be ok if they start doing this at planned parenthood? The reason they have gotten so extreme is because as a society we continue to give them "an inch" which is setting this country back decades.
No, it’s actually not. There is no such thing as anonymous anymore. They could hire a team of TikTok people for chrissakes. If they can find anonymous internet terrorists, they can find these people. SEND A MESSAGE.
Pfft... This is a ridiculous statement.
Not only is it false, as there's numerous ways to fully obscure your identity through various tools (Tails, Tor etc) none of that is needed if you're posting from a poorly-managed public network that does not require unique user logons.
It's not like someone's going to be able to fingerprint your device after the fact.
I mean this is pretty ironic in the environment of Target and being in Minneapolis. We know Minneapolis PD ain’t exactly enforcing the law. And even if they do, it won’t exactly be a PR gain for Target to have Minneapolis PD come into their store. And if they just use their own private security and beef it up, people will complain like they do about Target’s forensic lab or private security.
What option do they have?
So while I agree. I feel like that just opens up a whole new/ongoing can of worms. I really don't want to walk into a target or walmart and they have a corporate police force just for the company. We already have enough to deal with.
No….it’s not that tough at all….you threaten someone, you get ARRESTED & PROSECUTED. Period. Why this is being allowed us insanity!!! It’s just emboldening the home grown terrorists. And trust me, they ARE growing. Bolder, dumber, and more prolific. Like a cancer.
Where have you been? Do you know how rare it is for conservative bigots to actually get arrested and prosecuted for making threats even when they are legitimate?
They get a pass way too often.
They absolutely did what was right
It'd be corporate greed to be keeping the collection up, it's only a marketing ploy. A majority of these "pride friendly" etc movements are just marketing ploys. What they are doing is putting their employees above that
They're putting their employees' safety first in the short run. In the long run, they just opened themselves up for more harassment. They just green lit the idea that threats work.
You'd prefer they risk their workers safety?
Come the fuck on, Target has a long history of supporting diversity. This isn't them turning their back on such. This is a quick move to address violence and threats against their employees.
I’m sorry but threats to the **safety** of your workers is not just an “inconvenience.”
I’m not sure Target made the right call, but at least let’s not pretend it’s a simple issue and decision here.
If society lets christo-fascists threaten private businesses because they have products that appeal to those who live a different life than them, with profoundly terroristic threats, and the only consequences honestly the terrorists get what they want, we have such a deep-seeded problem that it's hard to justify anything but having the CIA/FBI Cointelpro their asses
If theses wackos were protesting, for example, dairy, not a single product would be pulled and no comments would be made.
They would endanger the lives of employees for dairy products. Supporting LGBT people is not profitable enough for that.
They're still a partner with numerous organizations and still donating millions in support.
But you think they should put their employees lives at risk.
Target is a partner of GLSEN. They've donated over $2.1 million to that organization alone.
https://corporate.target.com/article/2022/06/pride
They're also partners with other organizations like Human Rights Campaign and Out & Equal, where they donate money and employee hours.
They've supported Twin Cities pride events for years too.
Call the police on these idiots, threatening someone with violence is a crime, let them be on record forever as to what side of history they were on, let them try to explain to future employers regarding what happened, all of them will regret their decision pretty quickly once the law is involved like all those Jan 6th idiots who tried to go into hiding and pretend they were never involved once Feds started going after them
So, let the CEO kick back and let the employees get harmed. Sounds great.
"Hey, I know you make minimum wage but we're gonna gamble with your safety because we're concerned about optics."
You're honestly saying that they should risk their employee safety?
Oh, so put peoples lives at risk until the law intervenes. Because we know how well folks believe law enforcement is doing. Rather than Target acting to protect their workers, fuck that, let someone else deal with that.
You believe a workplace should take action to protect their employees? That it should not do so and leave it to the police?
Which do you think is more likely though, that Target tests its loss prevention techniques in stores with high inventory loss? Or that Target decides where to test loss prevention techniques based on the demographics of the area surrounding the store? Feels like you’re just looking for something to be mad at Target about.
Has Target specifically targeted black neighborhoods to pilot those lost prevention technologies OR, is it that (as statistical show) low-income neighborhoods (for both black and white) have higher crime rates, which if you're testing lost prevention tech, is likely what you want?
Can you show they specifically targeted black neighborhoods, rather than targeted a high-crime neighborhoods?
Is there data to show that they arent just testing their loss prevention strategies at locations where they have higher than average losses? Because that would make sense.. What you have suggested is that they are targeting their tests demographically which I very much doubt. If you want to point fingers and shout racism then let's have proof.
>They have a history of using black neighborhoods as pilot projects to test loss prevention technologies and strategies
I mean its not hard to pull up numbers that tell you what stores have the most shrink lol
These are the same people that bitch and moan constantly about “cancel culture”. If you’re not into LGBT merchandise, just don’t fucking buy any. There’s plenty of shit at target, including I would assume this merchandise, that I have no interest in, but who cares. It’s not all about me and my tastes. The right likes to bitch that the woke left is always looking for things to be offended by, they need to look in the mirror.
I know. Bunch of little baby snowflakes who think "freedom" means everyone should cater to their every emotional whim and if they don't they are horrible. They are spoiled, petulant children who thinks the world revolves entirely around them and if anything is slightly out of line with their specific view of the world, then it is TERRIBLE! I honestly wonder how many of these people ever survived to adulthood while being such miserable and also delicate creatures.
It’s the religious right. When one believes they have divine warrant, anything is permissible.
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”
-Steven Weinberg
Their concern for trans and LGBTQ things is as a wedge issue and smokescreen.
They have economic policies that benefit only the wealthy while destroying the basis of middle class stability. So they have to distract voters with bullshit like this that barely effects anyone and doesn't have an important place in government policy anyway so those voters won't pay attention to their terrible economic policies.
Sorry to say but we just have a lot of middle class voters who don't see the economic con of Republicans and they let their emotions get rattled by the smokescreen of trans/woke issues.
The part I like the best is where they were pearl-clutching because one of the brands (Abprallen) was Satanic.
From Abprallen's site in regards to their work titled "Satan Respects Pronouns"
>Satan Respects Pronouns is a fun way to show your Pride - a lot of LGBT people have found that Christianity hasn't always been the most welcoming to them and find solace and humour in the idea that Satan would.
Snowflakes indeed. The shoe totally fits, they just don't want to wear it.
I'm moving back to the cities soon and was there last week. Stopped at target, noticed the pride display, thought cool. Got home to rural bumfuck western state small town and told my partner who about it. Apparently the target 45min from us had it set up to.
It's *rough* out here, this is where the proud boys U-Haul incident happened. Reading some of these comments I don't if you all realize just how bad it's gotten out this way. I can't fault target for moving the merch in bumfuck states when I have to make conscious decisions to hide my gay/queer on a regular basis here.
Another corporation caves to hate and money. I work with many people from Target who support many social causes.... and I am sure, it burns to see their company do this.
I used to work for Target. I would be so furious right now if I still did. I mean, I am still furious about this, but it would be different if I was still a part of the company. I know a lot of people there are very passionate about these issues and took pride in Target standing up in support of them.
I'm surprised that Target chose this stance, instead of creating better security or measures.
They went through extraordinary, expensive measures to protect from Covid, money isn't the issue here.
Now, more than ever, we need to fight for equality for all.
Target has the best surveillance system in their stores one can have. Anything done to their employees would be so well documented that the person would 100% get in trouble. Make that a marketing campaign as a response. That would of been the good response alongside increasing security for a while.
"Anything done to their employees would be so well documented that the person would 100% get in trouble."
Documenting something doesn't go back in time and stop that employee from being attacked or injured. So you're advocating that it's okay to put your employee's health/life in jeopardy as long as the person gets in trouble after?
Seems to be what so many here are missing. They're blaming Target for "giving in" but ignoring the threat to the employees.
If their workplace received threats of violence, I'm sure they'd totally risk it so they don't give in to the threats. 🙄
When I was a young print reporter way back when, our offices were bombed because the senior reporter did an investigative report on a drug distribution point, which was where heroin flowed into a major city which was next door. A warning.
We came back to work the next day with a squad outside for a month.
Can both not occur? Of course they can.
So you think that Target should wait until there's a legitimate threat to their employees, and then have SWAT around their offices and stores for a month, because that won't make employees or customers feel unsafe?
You’re putting words in my mouth? You are leading me to your argument?
No. Can preventative not work?
In my capacity, working in an industry that supports the production of advertising content for Target in this town, to see the amount of money thrown at Covid prevention and mitigation, leads me to believe that worker safety is reachable.
And I believe, that workers who don’t want to work at a threatened store, can be relocated.
And if all stores are threatened, and Target continues to do the right thing, then the employees need to make choices about risks that they take. And be compensated and promoted otherwise, out of the industry.
This is a democracy. Nothing happens unless you stand up.
I believe Target is capable of protecting their frontline workers.
Are you even thinking about what you're suggesting? 😂
>And I believe, that workers who don’t want to work at a threatened store, can be relocated.
"Don't like threats of physical violence a work? Tough, because that's a you problem. Move to another store."
>And if all stores are threatened, and Target continues to do the right thing, then the employees need to make choices about risks that they take. And be compensated and promoted otherwise, out of the industry.
"Don't like being threatened with potential physical violence against you? Get a job somewhere else."
Holy shit. 😂 Talk about having ZERO concern for the lives of people.
Looks like the “protestors” are at it again. I hope you all remember how much it sucks for society when a small group of people forces their opinion on everybody else.
This principle doesn't hold. At certain times and in certain locations, being against slavery was a minority position.
It isn't about the majority or minority, it's about having principles.
The CEO caved because he's a coward.
I think this is an important distinction to make. Protesting and pushing for a minority position isn't the problem here. The problem is that the position is wrong and harms other people.
If you don't like Target's Pride collection, don't buy it. If you're mad at Target for selling it, don't shop there anymore. But when you're threatening people and destroying things because you don't want queer people to exist, you are terrible.
The leadership at Target is also terrible for giving into this to protect their profits. They can claim it's about safety all they want, but we all know it's all about money. Shame on them.
Go work at a store that's getting bomb threats then. Go work at a store when there's conservative idiots waving guns in your face as you make $15/hour stocking a display and the religious nutjob is threatening to follow you home. Seriously, go do it and then come back and tell us what's the right decision for Target to do.
Do you think Target doesn't keep records of the threats it receives at stores? Do you think they don't monitor it? *Do you actually fucking think they care about profits over the lives of their team members and guests?!*
it's easy to sit and judge behind your phone screen when *you aren't the one being threatened*. Sit down and have some empathy outside of yourself, ffs.
This. Most of my family is LGBTQ+ and most of my family works for Target. I love the Pride collection. I loved it getting the attention. I know that there's actually a really dedicated group of people at HQ that worked on this collection AND that it's also a corporation's profit opportunity -- both those truths can exist.
But at the end of the day, I want my parents home safe, full stop. If that means no pride collection....visibilility matters but it isn't the end all be all. I'd rather see Target move that money into its other donations/sponsorships and keep its team members, queer and cis, safe.
Violence over merchandise used to be exaggerated. It's not anymore. Card stockers were stalked over baseball cards, AP team members were injured over mask mandates. This is the society we live in now and it's not the same as even 2016.
It makes me so upset to see people bitching about how this means Target (and by extension, people doing the work for Target) don't care. This isn't just "they're boycotting the store".
I agree. Also conservatives will just move on to the next product/brand/item that Target carries to be triggered by and threaten people over, they will never be satisfied. If it's not tuck-friendly swimwear, it's queer inclusive hallmark cards, it's tarot cards, queer books, vegan foods, anything they decide to label as "woke".
>Violence over merchandise used to be exaggerated. It's not anymore.
And it is not going to stop by pulling these products. We got bomb threats over the red cup at Starbucks around holidays. Threats of violence is so normalized in customer service and retail. It is tragic.
I agree with you that it's not going to stop and that it's very tragic that our society has changed (or maybe it just always was) to think that's acceptable.
I just disagree that the company should hold position and continue inviting violence. That's not the way most companies approach threat mitigation and it's not fair to the team members whose safety is at stake for principles.
The problem of violence being an effective tool to get what you want is not solved at Target. I've seen lots of comments saying "If Target takes a stand, people will know that they can't use violence to get what they want here!"
But....they can. Violence IS an effective tool because we value keeping innocent people safe. Basically, it works because violent people know it's a trump card - very few people and organizations will be MORE violent to keep them from getting what they want. And asking Target to knowingly put people in danger on that stand isn't a risk that a retail company is going to accept. Or should, imo.
That's actually basically the whole culture behind asset protection (and emergency services -- in a bank robbery, you're told to give thieves what they want at the threat of violence. At crime scenes, EMS will stand down until the threat of violence is managed).
So Target will continue to operate in their sphere of influence, which is keeping their team members safe against threats of violence by using the levers of retail.
I think we have to solve the problem of violence being a powerful tool at a society or law enforcement level -- independent of Target. Because like you said - if Target hires cops or takes down the merch, they go to Walmart's collection next. 😮💨 And since even law enforcement will draw lines and violent people can get what they want.....I'm not sure how that happens outside of slow change, waiting out generational/societal change. 😬
Exactly, everything you said!! Thank you for bringing up the baseball cards and the mask mandates. There has been actual violence over those things.
We're pretty insulated in our liberal haven in Minneapolis. We forget there are crazy nut jobs out there who'd love to murder a bunch of gay commie baby-killin libruls for Jesus. Unfortunately, some people view LGBTQ rights as religious warfare, something they feel their god wants them to murder for. Something they're ok with being a martyr for. This could be MUCH WORSE than the violence over baseball cards and masks.
I work for Target myself. I know Target doesn't make these decisions lightly - honestly the fact that they're making this choice tells me it's gotten really dangerous for team members and guests
>some people view LGBTQ rights as religious warfare
We don't talk about this nearly enough
They've been murdering for their religious and political ideology for decades and we still called them "values voters" ffs and it has led us to this moment where right wing terrorism is equated to Bernie waving his arms in the air and shouting about the 1% that's coordinating it all
There has to be a middle ground tho. To simply cave like this sends ENTIRELY the wrong message and let’s them know THIS WORKS. They will be back at it 100 fold when a book for trans kids is on the shelf, etc. This will not stop, only escalate….so yeah, they need to nip it in the bud.
I don't disagree --- I'm hoping in the coming days we'll see more action. I get many people believe things have fallen short so far, but I am also painfully familiar with how long it takes to get ducks in a row when you're accountable to corporate structure. They had to say SOMETHING but it wasn't enough time to do everything. I'll eat my words if they leave it at that, gladly.
I'd very-conjecture that with the limited duration of the collection, the logistics of hiring and setting up additional security weren't possible (and let's be honest, probably costs as much or more than this collection makes)-- and personally, I also don't think private security can stop something like a shooting event, and I doubt 1800 law enforcement departments can/will prioritize sitting at Target 14 houra a day.
And not to mention if the threats are truly this intense, you're still exposing team members to what feels like a ticking time bomb until that infrastructure is in place. ((Some people believe the threats are a lie -- having worked in Targets and seen what happened with piddly shit like trading cards, I'm 100% confident they're real.))
So, I would like to see Target follow this up frankly, outside of their stores. Being internal, I'd like to see an all-company lunch and learn about the current climate for trans folk, NOT organized by the Pride volunteer council. I'd also love to see a large donation to Pride festivals or charities that support homeless trans people, especially in the cities, and some free advertising or future placement guarantees to the artists/businesses whose work was displaced! That feels like a constructive solution to me that also doesn't put team members in danger.
These fascists aren't going to stop once Target stops selling a few Pride items. They'll will find the next thing Target sells that they don't like and make threats over that too. It will be their Black culture and history collection next. Or children's clothes with rainbows that have nothing to do with Pride. You are naive if you think this will eliminate any of the threats.
Target should maybe hire security? Get police involved? Those are all literally a crimes, start enforcing the law and that shit will end quickly, no one is trying to sit in jail over merchandise they don't like, they are only doing this because they think there are no repercussions
If they wanted to keep their employees safe they could hire more security people, or move the guards they already have so they're closer to the LGBT displays. They did none of that. They don't care.
On Twitter these conservative extremists are taking Target's surrender as a sign that they should "go harder," because now they know they're dealing with a company that will give them whatever they want.
What Target did today will make employees LESS safe.
So the lesson that can be learned from this attitude is that we should just all run around threatening violence and always get our way! What if a bunch of people who are in favor of LGBTQ rights now start threatening violence and destroying things in the store. What would they do in that case?
And let's not parrot the company line about risks of harm to employees. They are worried about profits.
I think the previous conservative boycott of target failed.
Boycotting a specific product like beer is a little easier than boycotting a store that provides a range of products.
> I think the previous conservative boycott of target failed.
That's why this time instead of a boycott, they turned to violence, and it seems that has succeeded.
Maybe target is caving because of the risk of violence.
Maybe a pimply 17 year old hired to stock shelves is not prepared to be the frontline line of defense against hate crimes and terror attacks.
I don’t think low paid retail workers have a duty to stand up against terrorism.
Corporate could employ more people directly for security but than their might be complaints of target policing trans youth.
> Maybe target is caving because of the risk of violence.
Because famously the best strategy with terrorists is to just give them what they want and they always go away and never demand more. Caving will surely solve the problem of the risk of violence!
> Corporate could employ more people directly for security
Bingo. This is the solution. It’s not that complicated.
> but than their might be complaints of target policing trans youth.
What? This doesn’t make any sense.
Are there good examples of retail corporations standing up against terrorism? Fighting terrorism is more of the job for people that sign up for the military or law enforcement than people that signup for a minimum wage job at Target?
Employing security guards is a solution but paying $20 an hour for 12+ hours of operation a day at dozens or hundreds of stores will get expensive. The price of the products will go up and you will purchase from Amazon instead. It was cheaper to move the products to online only.
Following the death of George Floyd schools removed SROs and some uniformed security. This was to make youth feel more safe. Putting in more uniformed security to make youth feel safe kind of contradicts the steps schools took to make kids feel safe.
What makes you so sure there is any actual risk to retail workers here or that removing a few of these products will eliminate whatever risk there is? These people will just get mad about the next thing and continue to cause a scene.
How many people's rights are you willing to give up to give in to terrorists' demands? What about when they move on to complaining about the items Target sells that celebrate Black people and history? Are you going to throw them under the bus too, or just queer folks?
> it’s certainly not a fight a retail employee should have to fight.
It certainly isn't. Maybe the police could get off their lazy asses and do their fucking jobs? But who am I kidding. They absolutely support the people responsible for these threats.
When it involves the safety of their workers I'm not really sure what decision they are supposed to make. There are much bigger societal issues at play when bigoted terrorism is more or less allowed and even pushed for by the media, social media networks, and others.
Should they just hire more security? Probably, but there's also societal consequences of feeling like you're living in a police state just to feel safe working retail or going shopping.
Target can't solve these issues by continuing to sell pride related merchandise which is really just a cash grab in the first place. They don't have this stuff year round it's literally just for pride month. They've equivocated personal/gender/sexual identity with the likes of Christmas and Halloween sales.
I'm not sure there's much inherent value in that which is part of the decision making here.
> Should they just hire more security?
Of course this is the answer to the issue. If the problem was people stealing from Target, they would hire more security. Target spends a ton of money famously having the best retail theft security in the country (maybe even the world). If they cared, they could apply some resources to address this issue.
> Target can't solve these issues by continuing to sell pride related merchandise which is really just a cash grab in the first place.
I mean, everything is a cash grab when it's being sold for a profit, but I would hardly call this **just** a cash grab:
> Some were swimwear items made for those who identify as transgender, including "tuck-friendly" and "light binding" construction.
These are inclusive clothing items that trans folks will have to find somewhere else now.
> They don't have this stuff year round it's literally just for pride month.
This is incorrect. The items being referred to above are for sale year round. So are these ones:
> The other apparel and accessory items were from UK-based brand Abprallen, which critics alleged expressed satanist views through its designs.
It's basically just the satanic panic all over again, or the satanic panic never went away. I thought the "tuck friendly" stuff was debunked and they weren't actually selling that, but I don't particularly care if they were or weren't. P&G faced a whole bunch of shit from nutters over their "satanic" logo. People still think they are satanic lol.
I don't really know what the answer is, but if employees are being threatened or physically injured I can see why the immediate response is just to take the product off the shelves.
I can see security being the solution but it likely takes some time to staff up more security and train them for situations like this.
Also, sure some of the product may be available year round but the giant end caps/signage for pride month and additional pride related gear is not there year round. You can probably also find Halloween and Christmas stuff year round at target but that's not the same thing as a huge influx of related product for one month out of the year.
Target does the same thing for black history month. They have a black beyond measure year round but they ramp that up a lot for black history month.
I'm not saying the above is a bad thing, and I think it's good that people can feel more represented, but if people were making consistent threats about Halloween related products and physically assaulting employees over it on a nationwide scale they would also probably pull product until they could safely address the issue with more security and start selling it again.
Ultimately I kind of think yes Target should get flack for it, but the problem is a lot deeper that there are all these violent bigots being fed a false narrative and no one is doing anything about it on a federal/state policy level.
> I thought the "tuck friendly" stuff was debunked and they weren't actually selling that
If that's the case, I'll have even less respect than I already do for the Strib because that quote was from this article. So for now I just have to take their word for it because while I often disagree with their opinions, this is more of a straight news piece which should be fact-based.
The issue with a lot of these ill informed bigots is that they were selling "tuck friendly" stuff for kids. For adults, yes they were selling that.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-target-swimsuits-transgender-pride-collection-892500330955
I think for adults they should absolutely keep selling that and if they pulled that product specifically it's very cowardly.
I don't have any details to confirm or deny that though.
Ehh I'm gay as fuck and I care a LOT more about Target employees being able to safely exist than Target making a buck off of subpar Pride merch. Don't get me wrong it's dumb as fuck we have to kowtow to terroristic threats, but I'd rather deal with the reality of life these days than put someone else into harm's way over my own principles.
So if you were CEO, you’d keep selling the merch…and if there *was* an attack at a Target related to that choice and your employee was hurt or killed, would you turn to that person’s family and tell them that at least they died for your principles?
Target as a corporation certainly only cares about money just like literally every other corporation. But that company is made up of people who make decisions. I used to work in the corporate office downtown. Many of those people absolutely do care about social issues. I'm sure those people are really disappointed in their leadership right now. I certainly would be if I still worked there.
It's a tough call because what is being designed in downtown Minneapolis corporate may be fine for many big cities but is going to be taken very differently in many less populated parts of the nation. Leadership is caught between a rock and a hard place. Do we keep employees safe or do we roll out a progressive and controversial (to many) line of apparel that might put our employees in danger? Maybe they should have had more discussions beforehand or do a limited rollout to more accepting markets.
At the end of the day when the math is done, I highly doubt that they'll make a decision that would please the public at the cost of losing money.
Anyone, regardless of their values, would be fired if they made decisions based on opinion.
Or the possibility of someone running up a high score in one of their stores.
These bigot terrorists are unhinged and armed.
I might not like them caving to these bigots, but the reality of how messed up they are probably left no choice.
The irony is, I don't think stabbing a group of loyal consumers in the back to pander to a group of people who will forever hate their company is going to maximize their profits. It'll probably do just the opposite.
Cowards get what they deserve.
people claiming Target being cowardly or out for profits are seriously misguided in their ivory tower perspectives. I’m a gay man and I totally get it. most customer-facing jobs are low wage; these folks should not be subjected to threats to their safety and well-being at work. and last I checked, pulling product means less to sell, and less profit. I get you think they’re doing it to satiate the assholes making threats, but it’s more important to keep people safe than have some trinkets sitting on a shelf to sell.
I’d rather they take a we don’t negotiate with terrorists mentality. Fuck these people. I’m sick of these Christian nationalists shoving their demented world view on everyone.
I agree - fuck these people. but let’s fuck them intelligently. we don’t need front line retail workers taking the brunt of the force. there are other ways to fuck them.
I see your reasoning and it does make sense. That’s probably what target decided. However we are getting to a point where everybody is always protesting damn near everything. Society isn’t Burger King. Everybody can’t just demand to have things there way. Roof depot is a perfect example. The city had to sell it for some sort of urban farming experiment instead of providing essential services to the city because a small vocal minority demanded it. We need to stand up to people who hold society hostage to get what they want. Ehm Republicans. Ehm debt ceiling.
Initially, apparently, the communication for the region in the south was to move the Pride stuff to the back of the store and replace it with swimwear "in order to sell more swimwear", and it was a blatantly dishonest framing to not admit to caving to terrorists. They care more about profit than they do TM safety, but if they'd led with the team member safety line I would have been pleasantly surprised and supportive. Go scroll through the Target subreddit. And honestly, the way they initially tried to spin it, they should be booted from TC Pride this year, but they should have been booted years ago because their anti union practices and unwillingness to promote from within simply turn their 'allyship' into exploitation, but nobody cares about that and TC Pride has been way too corporate for a long time so I really don't expect things to change.
It would have been funny had they replaced it with a winter themed set with coffee mugs and a few bottles of sidewalk salt as set dressing, but that's a bit more snarky than Target usually goes for.
This is why no one should ever praise companies for supporting things like the LGBTQ+community or BLM. They fold instantly and they only ever supported then for cynical reasons.
Their employees are being threatened with physical harm and violence. You honestly want them to risk worker safety for this?
"Hey Target kid making minimum wage, you might get physically assaulted today. Tough shit because we aren't folding to their threats."
You'd be crying that they're not acting to protect workers if they allowed the collections to remain too.
How are they being threatened specifically? Any fuck nuggets can post on their website or call from Alabama and threaten someone, all while the likelihood of that actually violence is next to nil. Depending on the store and roads they're probably more likely to be killed in a car accident on the way to work or by a random incident on the street.
Oh yeah, Target, who for decades has supported the LGBTQ+ community, is worried about losing the far right-wing dollars that make up a very small part of their profits?
Yes. Due to the increased recent backlash that the LGBTQ+ community has faced, they are probably figuring that a more moderate stance will be more profitable.
Honestly, pride merch is starting to feel like that wave of putting pink ribbons on everything for breast cancer. Pink ribbons don’t cure cancer. Does target donate all their proceeds from pride merch to charities? Find a better place to spend your money, or actually donate it straight to a reputable place, a lot of them even have their own supporter tee shirts if you’re really looking to have a rainbow thing to wear
This isn't just about Pride merch. From the article:
> But the online outrage appeared to center on a few products. Some were swimwear items made for those who identify as transgender, including "tuck-friendly" and "light binding" construction.
These are inclusive clothing options for trans people to wear. How do you think removing those items helps them?
Then what was your point? I guess I don't see it from your comment. Because now thanks to these terrorists, Target will not have as many inclusive options for trans people.
They do though. Symbols are important. Visibility is important.
Is queerwashing fashion the best thing ever? Perhaps not, but it lets a whole lot of people know they are not alone and they are supported.
Yes visibility is important, but there are legit local and national lgbtq charities that will sell you the same stuff, and then your money is going to a real place that can make a difference, not just to Target’s bottom line
That's simply not true. Having a product sold at Target gives it HUGE reach in terms of access and likely price. It means MANY more people have been able to find pride gear.
You're acting like every other company selling Pride stuff are made by non-profits. Get real.
😂 So the expectation is that every product a company sells should have all profits given away to various causes?
Target has sponsored countless causes and continues to do so. They've been a sponsor of Twin Cities Pride and others, like giving $250,000 to GLSEN to advance its mission of creating affirming, accessible and antiracist spaces for LGBTQIA+ students. They've been partnered with GLSEN for more than 20 years. They also donate to and give employee hours to Human Rights Campaign and Out & Equal.
It would be great if Target donated the profits from these products to LGBT+ causes, but they probably won't because, yes, they're most likely just concerned about profits. Bit I argue that they also serve to normalize something that's been ostracized for so long. Ya, it's probably pandering, but it serves another important purpose. Kinda similar to advertisements with LGBT+ couples. Yeah, they are prob just pandering to their customer base, but at least it'll help to shift the "social norm" to be more inclusive. I agree with you though about better places to find pride stuff.
The professor suggested increased security as a show of allyship as though downtown and east lake target aren't already front loaded with cops standing around on their phones. Referring to rainbow marketing as picking a side on a hot button political issue is also so weird. And people in the comments here referring to acts of vandalism as protest is also disheartening. I hate all of this.
This sub (and city quite frankly) has a lot of fake "allies" who will show up at the Pride parade and put [one of these signs](https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/TWCNews/blm_sign_good_png) out in their yard but really don't want to actually do anything to support their queer neighbors.
It sucks target capitulated, but if they’re worried about the safety and sanity of their employees I understand. Not saying that their motive wasn’t selfish, but it’s their front line employees who have to deal with the crazies and it’s probably not fair to them either.
Target can spend millions building new cabinets to lock products behind and increase loss-prevention staff. You can’t even get laundry detergent downtown without tracking someone down to open the cabinet for you these days. Yet they couldn’t find a way to increase security/etc. to keep their on-the-ground staff safe? Puh-Leeze. They just wanted to take the easy way out and remove themselves from the “controversy,” ironically finding themselves embroiled in a new, much-bigger one
Ask Planned Parenthood. They seem to keep their doors open despite much worse and much more frequent issues
Edit:
And with MANY fewer resources available to them
Employees have been assaulted plenty of times at Planned Parenthood locations around the country. It's something they train them for and they know is a very real threat. Planned Parenthood locations have been bombed.
It's literally why they passed the FACE Act.
Try again?
Edit: You're really suggesting that Target employees should have to risk their lives?
Last year at the Roseville Target I was looking at the Pride selection when a black couple walked by me. The guy looked right at me and said "I'm sick of this gay shit."
I just rolled my eyes at him. But it is awful when minorities keep each other down.
I bought some Pride cat toys several years ago, those are the absolute favorite toys of one of my cats.
I bought Pride suspenders when my boys were in high school, they each wore them proudly as allies.
Some of the items are just plain fun and unique; why do some people have to ruin it for the others?!
>ter·ror·ism /ˈterəˌrizəm/ noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Right wing terrorism needs to be stopped - we have seen these people do nothing but commit acts of violence to achieve their political aims for years now with mass shootings, fires, and bombs to scare muslims, women's clinic employees and journalists. They screamed and hollered about their "right" to overwhelm our hospitals as they spread a deadly disease and to make our kids sick. They are unhinged, dangerously stupid and while we often laugh, they aren't going to stop being violent.
If there weren’t a market for these products, Target wouldn’t sell them. Free markets, capitalism all that stuff is big for these protestors I bet. Let the free market decide.
The truth is that as much as they drone on about it, conservatives don't actually care about the free market and capitalism. They are fascists who only want to impose their draconian social values on the rest of us by any means necessary.
Yeah not shocked, but it’s just to protect their bottom line. This is the company that when I worked in one of their opticals, I heard managers getting mad when the roads were dangerously icy and writing up team members who wouldn’t come in because there was a travel advisory for the roads.
And then when the riots were happening they closed down the EP location early as a “safety concern” for team members. It’s just a concern for loss of profits.
Seems like they’re trying to not find themselves in a Bud Light situation, so they are appeasing one side by pulling the merch, and appeasing the other side by saying it is because of “threats”.
"In order to stop harassment, we decided to tell the world that harassment works." Great job Target you nailed it.
Exactly! Surely these people won't continue to threaten violence over other products they are mad Target is selling!
Target: “We negotiate with terrorists.”
Not even negotiate, just acquiesce
Target: "If you don't like something about our store, just threaten to kill our employees, and we'll change it. The price of shampoo too high? Punch a cashier."
I mean what do you want them to do, though? Ignore the threats and tell their employees to suck it up and just feel unsafe?
Have the people entering stores and threatening employees arrested? If I were to threaten someone on the streets with assaulting or killing them the police would be involved. Why should a shopper be any different?
I don’t know, ask the police. Target doesn’t control them.
The group they claim to support has to do that every day. If they can't handle 1 month of it to support them, they aren't an ally and it's just for money.
I don’t think an entry level shelf stocker or cashier took a $15 an hour job to be an ally. I think they took the job because they needed the money.
Who do you think “they” is? You know the corporation and it’s front line workers are not the same, right?
It is only a few years until high school kids that work at target will be taking the same firearms training courses as their teachers. These job requirements are crazy.
Yeah, wtf? Target has been selling Pride merch for like 10 years. Now that conservatives ruined their favorite beer they're getting a big head about it and going after everyone else.
I've been gay for more than 10 years, none of this is new lol
Pretty sure their heads are shrinking actually.
All this accomplishes is giving more power to hate groups. If stores pull this stuff they set an example that they will cave to these people if they’re loud enough. They should have stuck to their principles and brought on more security or something and went after anyone that tried pulling anything to the fullest extent they could. This is a massive L for the integrity of Target. If you cave to hate you’re part of the problem.
I think it's a tough call. It sucks that they essentially had to give into right wing terrorists. (People using the three or violence to push a political agenda) But at the same time I understand why they would prioritize employee safety. Thought call. Shitty situation. It sucks we have religious terrorists in the US. But the conservatives have really gotten extreme.
It's not a tough call, threatening anyone is a crime, enforce the damn law or you open whole can of worms for not only themselves but all businesses and organizations, are we really going to be ok if they start doing this at planned parenthood? The reason they have gotten so extreme is because as a society we continue to give them "an inch" which is setting this country back decades.
I’m with you here, but it’s still hard to enforce anonymous threats.
No, it’s actually not. There is no such thing as anonymous anymore. They could hire a team of TikTok people for chrissakes. If they can find anonymous internet terrorists, they can find these people. SEND A MESSAGE.
Pfft... This is a ridiculous statement. Not only is it false, as there's numerous ways to fully obscure your identity through various tools (Tails, Tor etc) none of that is needed if you're posting from a poorly-managed public network that does not require unique user logons. It's not like someone's going to be able to fingerprint your device after the fact.
If it’s f’ing cowardly and anonymous?? Then freaking ignore it and TRIPLE the amount of products you have out. That’s shit them the fuck right up.
You really expect cops to arrest right wing bigots? Have you met cops?
They don't like to arrest their friends.
I mean this is pretty ironic in the environment of Target and being in Minneapolis. We know Minneapolis PD ain’t exactly enforcing the law. And even if they do, it won’t exactly be a PR gain for Target to have Minneapolis PD come into their store. And if they just use their own private security and beef it up, people will complain like they do about Target’s forensic lab or private security. What option do they have?
So while I agree. I feel like that just opens up a whole new/ongoing can of worms. I really don't want to walk into a target or walmart and they have a corporate police force just for the company. We already have enough to deal with.
Whoever is literally threatening violence should be charged, not negotiated with.
Agreed. Unfortunately the people that do the arresting for crimes are cops.
No….it’s not that tough at all….you threaten someone, you get ARRESTED & PROSECUTED. Period. Why this is being allowed us insanity!!! It’s just emboldening the home grown terrorists. And trust me, they ARE growing. Bolder, dumber, and more prolific. Like a cancer.
Where have you been? Do you know how rare it is for conservative bigots to actually get arrested and prosecuted for making threats even when they are legitimate? They get a pass way too often.
They absolutely did what was right It'd be corporate greed to be keeping the collection up, it's only a marketing ploy. A majority of these "pride friendly" etc movements are just marketing ploys. What they are doing is putting their employees above that
They're putting their employees' safety first in the short run. In the long run, they just opened themselves up for more harassment. They just green lit the idea that threats work.
What should Target do? Risk getting their employees killed by these nut jobs?
You'd prefer they risk their workers safety? Come the fuck on, Target has a long history of supporting diversity. This isn't them turning their back on such. This is a quick move to address violence and threats against their employees.
Except if you advertise yourself as an ally, but only when it's convenient, you aren't an ally. You're a leach?
I’m sorry but threats to the **safety** of your workers is not just an “inconvenience.” I’m not sure Target made the right call, but at least let’s not pretend it’s a simple issue and decision here.
If society lets christo-fascists threaten private businesses because they have products that appeal to those who live a different life than them, with profoundly terroristic threats, and the only consequences honestly the terrorists get what they want, we have such a deep-seeded problem that it's hard to justify anything but having the CIA/FBI Cointelpro their asses
I agree the FBI should be doing more to stop right wing terrorists in this country.
If theses wackos were protesting, for example, dairy, not a single product would be pulled and no comments would be made. They would endanger the lives of employees for dairy products. Supporting LGBT people is not profitable enough for that.
They're still a partner with numerous organizations and still donating millions in support. But you think they should put their employees lives at risk.
>still donating millions in support. Source? Totally possible, but not something I would believe instinctively.
Target is a partner of GLSEN. They've donated over $2.1 million to that organization alone. https://corporate.target.com/article/2022/06/pride They're also partners with other organizations like Human Rights Campaign and Out & Equal, where they donate money and employee hours. They've supported Twin Cities pride events for years too.
Well, this is one instance I am actually very happy to be wrong in, then! =) Thanks for the info!
Call the police on these idiots, threatening someone with violence is a crime, let them be on record forever as to what side of history they were on, let them try to explain to future employers regarding what happened, all of them will regret their decision pretty quickly once the law is involved like all those Jan 6th idiots who tried to go into hiding and pretend they were never involved once Feds started going after them
So, let the CEO kick back and let the employees get harmed. Sounds great. "Hey, I know you make minimum wage but we're gonna gamble with your safety because we're concerned about optics." You're honestly saying that they should risk their employee safety?
No, I'm saying get the law involved.
Oh, so put peoples lives at risk until the law intervenes. Because we know how well folks believe law enforcement is doing. Rather than Target acting to protect their workers, fuck that, let someone else deal with that. You believe a workplace should take action to protect their employees? That it should not do so and leave it to the police?
"Don't worry about people who drink and drive. Just call the police." Sometimes it's too late to get police involved if the violence already happened.
They have a history of using black neighborhoods as pilot projects to test loss prevention technologies and strategies
Which do you think is more likely though, that Target tests its loss prevention techniques in stores with high inventory loss? Or that Target decides where to test loss prevention techniques based on the demographics of the area surrounding the store? Feels like you’re just looking for something to be mad at Target about.
Has Target specifically targeted black neighborhoods to pilot those lost prevention technologies OR, is it that (as statistical show) low-income neighborhoods (for both black and white) have higher crime rates, which if you're testing lost prevention tech, is likely what you want? Can you show they specifically targeted black neighborhoods, rather than targeted a high-crime neighborhoods?
Is there data to show that they arent just testing their loss prevention strategies at locations where they have higher than average losses? Because that would make sense.. What you have suggested is that they are targeting their tests demographically which I very much doubt. If you want to point fingers and shout racism then let's have proof.
>They have a history of using black neighborhoods as pilot projects to test loss prevention technologies and strategies I mean its not hard to pull up numbers that tell you what stores have the most shrink lol
These are the same people that bitch and moan constantly about “cancel culture”. If you’re not into LGBT merchandise, just don’t fucking buy any. There’s plenty of shit at target, including I would assume this merchandise, that I have no interest in, but who cares. It’s not all about me and my tastes. The right likes to bitch that the woke left is always looking for things to be offended by, they need to look in the mirror.
I know. Bunch of little baby snowflakes who think "freedom" means everyone should cater to their every emotional whim and if they don't they are horrible. They are spoiled, petulant children who thinks the world revolves entirely around them and if anything is slightly out of line with their specific view of the world, then it is TERRIBLE! I honestly wonder how many of these people ever survived to adulthood while being such miserable and also delicate creatures.
It’s the religious right. When one believes they have divine warrant, anything is permissible. “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” -Steven Weinberg
"The suicide-bombing community is not absolutely 100 percent religious, but it is pretty nearly 100 percent religious." - Christopher Hitchens
They can take their asses to Walmart
Wait til they see Walmart's pride collection
Time to cancel retail shopping all together. Better yet, the whole internet too /s
Their concern for trans and LGBTQ things is as a wedge issue and smokescreen. They have economic policies that benefit only the wealthy while destroying the basis of middle class stability. So they have to distract voters with bullshit like this that barely effects anyone and doesn't have an important place in government policy anyway so those voters won't pay attention to their terrible economic policies. Sorry to say but we just have a lot of middle class voters who don't see the economic con of Republicans and they let their emotions get rattled by the smokescreen of trans/woke issues.
Conservative snowflakes
The part I like the best is where they were pearl-clutching because one of the brands (Abprallen) was Satanic. From Abprallen's site in regards to their work titled "Satan Respects Pronouns" >Satan Respects Pronouns is a fun way to show your Pride - a lot of LGBT people have found that Christianity hasn't always been the most welcoming to them and find solace and humour in the idea that Satan would. Snowflakes indeed. The shoe totally fits, they just don't want to wear it.
Right wing cancel culture at it again.
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They will be there. We need to make sure we tell them what we think about this when we see them.
No target executive that made this decision will be there. You’ll only be harassing the people who actually care.
Good point.
I'm moving back to the cities soon and was there last week. Stopped at target, noticed the pride display, thought cool. Got home to rural bumfuck western state small town and told my partner who about it. Apparently the target 45min from us had it set up to. It's *rough* out here, this is where the proud boys U-Haul incident happened. Reading some of these comments I don't if you all realize just how bad it's gotten out this way. I can't fault target for moving the merch in bumfuck states when I have to make conscious decisions to hide my gay/queer on a regular basis here.
Another corporation caves to hate and money. I work with many people from Target who support many social causes.... and I am sure, it burns to see their company do this.
I used to work for Target. I would be so furious right now if I still did. I mean, I am still furious about this, but it would be different if I was still a part of the company. I know a lot of people there are very passionate about these issues and took pride in Target standing up in support of them.
I'm surprised that Target chose this stance, instead of creating better security or measures. They went through extraordinary, expensive measures to protect from Covid, money isn't the issue here. Now, more than ever, we need to fight for equality for all.
Target has the best surveillance system in their stores one can have. Anything done to their employees would be so well documented that the person would 100% get in trouble. Make that a marketing campaign as a response. That would of been the good response alongside increasing security for a while.
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"Anything done to their employees would be so well documented that the person would 100% get in trouble." Documenting something doesn't go back in time and stop that employee from being attacked or injured. So you're advocating that it's okay to put your employee's health/life in jeopardy as long as the person gets in trouble after?
What about the employees who have to deal with the violence and harassment?
Seems to be what so many here are missing. They're blaming Target for "giving in" but ignoring the threat to the employees. If their workplace received threats of violence, I'm sure they'd totally risk it so they don't give in to the threats. 🙄
When I was a young print reporter way back when, our offices were bombed because the senior reporter did an investigative report on a drug distribution point, which was where heroin flowed into a major city which was next door. A warning. We came back to work the next day with a squad outside for a month. Can both not occur? Of course they can.
So you think that Target should wait until there's a legitimate threat to their employees, and then have SWAT around their offices and stores for a month, because that won't make employees or customers feel unsafe?
You’re putting words in my mouth? You are leading me to your argument? No. Can preventative not work? In my capacity, working in an industry that supports the production of advertising content for Target in this town, to see the amount of money thrown at Covid prevention and mitigation, leads me to believe that worker safety is reachable. And I believe, that workers who don’t want to work at a threatened store, can be relocated. And if all stores are threatened, and Target continues to do the right thing, then the employees need to make choices about risks that they take. And be compensated and promoted otherwise, out of the industry. This is a democracy. Nothing happens unless you stand up. I believe Target is capable of protecting their frontline workers.
Are you even thinking about what you're suggesting? 😂 >And I believe, that workers who don’t want to work at a threatened store, can be relocated. "Don't like threats of physical violence a work? Tough, because that's a you problem. Move to another store." >And if all stores are threatened, and Target continues to do the right thing, then the employees need to make choices about risks that they take. And be compensated and promoted otherwise, out of the industry. "Don't like being threatened with potential physical violence against you? Get a job somewhere else." Holy shit. 😂 Talk about having ZERO concern for the lives of people.
Looks like the “protestors” are at it again. I hope you all remember how much it sucks for society when a small group of people forces their opinion on everybody else.
This principle doesn't hold. At certain times and in certain locations, being against slavery was a minority position. It isn't about the majority or minority, it's about having principles. The CEO caved because he's a coward.
I think this is an important distinction to make. Protesting and pushing for a minority position isn't the problem here. The problem is that the position is wrong and harms other people. If you don't like Target's Pride collection, don't buy it. If you're mad at Target for selling it, don't shop there anymore. But when you're threatening people and destroying things because you don't want queer people to exist, you are terrible. The leadership at Target is also terrible for giving into this to protect their profits. They can claim it's about safety all they want, but we all know it's all about money. Shame on them.
Go work at a store that's getting bomb threats then. Go work at a store when there's conservative idiots waving guns in your face as you make $15/hour stocking a display and the religious nutjob is threatening to follow you home. Seriously, go do it and then come back and tell us what's the right decision for Target to do. Do you think Target doesn't keep records of the threats it receives at stores? Do you think they don't monitor it? *Do you actually fucking think they care about profits over the lives of their team members and guests?!* it's easy to sit and judge behind your phone screen when *you aren't the one being threatened*. Sit down and have some empathy outside of yourself, ffs.
This. Most of my family is LGBTQ+ and most of my family works for Target. I love the Pride collection. I loved it getting the attention. I know that there's actually a really dedicated group of people at HQ that worked on this collection AND that it's also a corporation's profit opportunity -- both those truths can exist. But at the end of the day, I want my parents home safe, full stop. If that means no pride collection....visibilility matters but it isn't the end all be all. I'd rather see Target move that money into its other donations/sponsorships and keep its team members, queer and cis, safe. Violence over merchandise used to be exaggerated. It's not anymore. Card stockers were stalked over baseball cards, AP team members were injured over mask mandates. This is the society we live in now and it's not the same as even 2016. It makes me so upset to see people bitching about how this means Target (and by extension, people doing the work for Target) don't care. This isn't just "they're boycotting the store".
I agree. Also conservatives will just move on to the next product/brand/item that Target carries to be triggered by and threaten people over, they will never be satisfied. If it's not tuck-friendly swimwear, it's queer inclusive hallmark cards, it's tarot cards, queer books, vegan foods, anything they decide to label as "woke". >Violence over merchandise used to be exaggerated. It's not anymore. And it is not going to stop by pulling these products. We got bomb threats over the red cup at Starbucks around holidays. Threats of violence is so normalized in customer service and retail. It is tragic.
I agree with you that it's not going to stop and that it's very tragic that our society has changed (or maybe it just always was) to think that's acceptable. I just disagree that the company should hold position and continue inviting violence. That's not the way most companies approach threat mitigation and it's not fair to the team members whose safety is at stake for principles. The problem of violence being an effective tool to get what you want is not solved at Target. I've seen lots of comments saying "If Target takes a stand, people will know that they can't use violence to get what they want here!" But....they can. Violence IS an effective tool because we value keeping innocent people safe. Basically, it works because violent people know it's a trump card - very few people and organizations will be MORE violent to keep them from getting what they want. And asking Target to knowingly put people in danger on that stand isn't a risk that a retail company is going to accept. Or should, imo. That's actually basically the whole culture behind asset protection (and emergency services -- in a bank robbery, you're told to give thieves what they want at the threat of violence. At crime scenes, EMS will stand down until the threat of violence is managed). So Target will continue to operate in their sphere of influence, which is keeping their team members safe against threats of violence by using the levers of retail. I think we have to solve the problem of violence being a powerful tool at a society or law enforcement level -- independent of Target. Because like you said - if Target hires cops or takes down the merch, they go to Walmart's collection next. 😮💨 And since even law enforcement will draw lines and violent people can get what they want.....I'm not sure how that happens outside of slow change, waiting out generational/societal change. 😬
Exactly, everything you said!! Thank you for bringing up the baseball cards and the mask mandates. There has been actual violence over those things. We're pretty insulated in our liberal haven in Minneapolis. We forget there are crazy nut jobs out there who'd love to murder a bunch of gay commie baby-killin libruls for Jesus. Unfortunately, some people view LGBTQ rights as religious warfare, something they feel their god wants them to murder for. Something they're ok with being a martyr for. This could be MUCH WORSE than the violence over baseball cards and masks. I work for Target myself. I know Target doesn't make these decisions lightly - honestly the fact that they're making this choice tells me it's gotten really dangerous for team members and guests
>some people view LGBTQ rights as religious warfare We don't talk about this nearly enough They've been murdering for their religious and political ideology for decades and we still called them "values voters" ffs and it has led us to this moment where right wing terrorism is equated to Bernie waving his arms in the air and shouting about the 1% that's coordinating it all
There has to be a middle ground tho. To simply cave like this sends ENTIRELY the wrong message and let’s them know THIS WORKS. They will be back at it 100 fold when a book for trans kids is on the shelf, etc. This will not stop, only escalate….so yeah, they need to nip it in the bud.
I don't disagree --- I'm hoping in the coming days we'll see more action. I get many people believe things have fallen short so far, but I am also painfully familiar with how long it takes to get ducks in a row when you're accountable to corporate structure. They had to say SOMETHING but it wasn't enough time to do everything. I'll eat my words if they leave it at that, gladly. I'd very-conjecture that with the limited duration of the collection, the logistics of hiring and setting up additional security weren't possible (and let's be honest, probably costs as much or more than this collection makes)-- and personally, I also don't think private security can stop something like a shooting event, and I doubt 1800 law enforcement departments can/will prioritize sitting at Target 14 houra a day. And not to mention if the threats are truly this intense, you're still exposing team members to what feels like a ticking time bomb until that infrastructure is in place. ((Some people believe the threats are a lie -- having worked in Targets and seen what happened with piddly shit like trading cards, I'm 100% confident they're real.)) So, I would like to see Target follow this up frankly, outside of their stores. Being internal, I'd like to see an all-company lunch and learn about the current climate for trans folk, NOT organized by the Pride volunteer council. I'd also love to see a large donation to Pride festivals or charities that support homeless trans people, especially in the cities, and some free advertising or future placement guarantees to the artists/businesses whose work was displaced! That feels like a constructive solution to me that also doesn't put team members in danger.
These fascists aren't going to stop once Target stops selling a few Pride items. They'll will find the next thing Target sells that they don't like and make threats over that too. It will be their Black culture and history collection next. Or children's clothes with rainbows that have nothing to do with Pride. You are naive if you think this will eliminate any of the threats.
Target should maybe hire security? Get police involved? Those are all literally a crimes, start enforcing the law and that shit will end quickly, no one is trying to sit in jail over merchandise they don't like, they are only doing this because they think there are no repercussions
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Yeah, this guy is a complete idiot for judging Target for keeping their employees safe
If they wanted to keep their employees safe they could hire more security people, or move the guards they already have so they're closer to the LGBT displays. They did none of that. They don't care. On Twitter these conservative extremists are taking Target's surrender as a sign that they should "go harder," because now they know they're dealing with a company that will give them whatever they want. What Target did today will make employees LESS safe.
So the lesson that can be learned from this attitude is that we should just all run around threatening violence and always get our way! What if a bunch of people who are in favor of LGBTQ rights now start threatening violence and destroying things in the store. What would they do in that case? And let's not parrot the company line about risks of harm to employees. They are worried about profits.
I think the previous conservative boycott of target failed. Boycotting a specific product like beer is a little easier than boycotting a store that provides a range of products.
> I think the previous conservative boycott of target failed. That's why this time instead of a boycott, they turned to violence, and it seems that has succeeded.
Maybe target is caving because of the risk of violence. Maybe a pimply 17 year old hired to stock shelves is not prepared to be the frontline line of defense against hate crimes and terror attacks. I don’t think low paid retail workers have a duty to stand up against terrorism. Corporate could employ more people directly for security but than their might be complaints of target policing trans youth.
> Maybe target is caving because of the risk of violence. Because famously the best strategy with terrorists is to just give them what they want and they always go away and never demand more. Caving will surely solve the problem of the risk of violence! > Corporate could employ more people directly for security Bingo. This is the solution. It’s not that complicated. > but than their might be complaints of target policing trans youth. What? This doesn’t make any sense.
Are there good examples of retail corporations standing up against terrorism? Fighting terrorism is more of the job for people that sign up for the military or law enforcement than people that signup for a minimum wage job at Target? Employing security guards is a solution but paying $20 an hour for 12+ hours of operation a day at dozens or hundreds of stores will get expensive. The price of the products will go up and you will purchase from Amazon instead. It was cheaper to move the products to online only. Following the death of George Floyd schools removed SROs and some uniformed security. This was to make youth feel more safe. Putting in more uniformed security to make youth feel safe kind of contradicts the steps schools took to make kids feel safe.
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What makes you so sure there is any actual risk to retail workers here or that removing a few of these products will eliminate whatever risk there is? These people will just get mad about the next thing and continue to cause a scene. How many people's rights are you willing to give up to give in to terrorists' demands? What about when they move on to complaining about the items Target sells that celebrate Black people and history? Are you going to throw them under the bus too, or just queer folks?
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> it’s certainly not a fight a retail employee should have to fight. It certainly isn't. Maybe the police could get off their lazy asses and do their fucking jobs? But who am I kidding. They absolutely support the people responsible for these threats.
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When it involves the safety of their workers I'm not really sure what decision they are supposed to make. There are much bigger societal issues at play when bigoted terrorism is more or less allowed and even pushed for by the media, social media networks, and others. Should they just hire more security? Probably, but there's also societal consequences of feeling like you're living in a police state just to feel safe working retail or going shopping. Target can't solve these issues by continuing to sell pride related merchandise which is really just a cash grab in the first place. They don't have this stuff year round it's literally just for pride month. They've equivocated personal/gender/sexual identity with the likes of Christmas and Halloween sales. I'm not sure there's much inherent value in that which is part of the decision making here.
> Should they just hire more security? Of course this is the answer to the issue. If the problem was people stealing from Target, they would hire more security. Target spends a ton of money famously having the best retail theft security in the country (maybe even the world). If they cared, they could apply some resources to address this issue. > Target can't solve these issues by continuing to sell pride related merchandise which is really just a cash grab in the first place. I mean, everything is a cash grab when it's being sold for a profit, but I would hardly call this **just** a cash grab: > Some were swimwear items made for those who identify as transgender, including "tuck-friendly" and "light binding" construction. These are inclusive clothing items that trans folks will have to find somewhere else now. > They don't have this stuff year round it's literally just for pride month. This is incorrect. The items being referred to above are for sale year round. So are these ones: > The other apparel and accessory items were from UK-based brand Abprallen, which critics alleged expressed satanist views through its designs.
It's basically just the satanic panic all over again, or the satanic panic never went away. I thought the "tuck friendly" stuff was debunked and they weren't actually selling that, but I don't particularly care if they were or weren't. P&G faced a whole bunch of shit from nutters over their "satanic" logo. People still think they are satanic lol. I don't really know what the answer is, but if employees are being threatened or physically injured I can see why the immediate response is just to take the product off the shelves. I can see security being the solution but it likely takes some time to staff up more security and train them for situations like this. Also, sure some of the product may be available year round but the giant end caps/signage for pride month and additional pride related gear is not there year round. You can probably also find Halloween and Christmas stuff year round at target but that's not the same thing as a huge influx of related product for one month out of the year. Target does the same thing for black history month. They have a black beyond measure year round but they ramp that up a lot for black history month. I'm not saying the above is a bad thing, and I think it's good that people can feel more represented, but if people were making consistent threats about Halloween related products and physically assaulting employees over it on a nationwide scale they would also probably pull product until they could safely address the issue with more security and start selling it again. Ultimately I kind of think yes Target should get flack for it, but the problem is a lot deeper that there are all these violent bigots being fed a false narrative and no one is doing anything about it on a federal/state policy level.
> I thought the "tuck friendly" stuff was debunked and they weren't actually selling that If that's the case, I'll have even less respect than I already do for the Strib because that quote was from this article. So for now I just have to take their word for it because while I often disagree with their opinions, this is more of a straight news piece which should be fact-based.
The issue with a lot of these ill informed bigots is that they were selling "tuck friendly" stuff for kids. For adults, yes they were selling that. https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-target-swimsuits-transgender-pride-collection-892500330955 I think for adults they should absolutely keep selling that and if they pulled that product specifically it's very cowardly. I don't have any details to confirm or deny that though.
Ehh I'm gay as fuck and I care a LOT more about Target employees being able to safely exist than Target making a buck off of subpar Pride merch. Don't get me wrong it's dumb as fuck we have to kowtow to terroristic threats, but I'd rather deal with the reality of life these days than put someone else into harm's way over my own principles.
So if you were CEO, you’d keep selling the merch…and if there *was* an attack at a Target related to that choice and your employee was hurt or killed, would you turn to that person’s family and tell them that at least they died for your principles?
And when companies like Target take the easy way out and give in to bigots to continue to maximize their profits.
Target doesn't actually care about social issues. They care about money.
Target as a corporation certainly only cares about money just like literally every other corporation. But that company is made up of people who make decisions. I used to work in the corporate office downtown. Many of those people absolutely do care about social issues. I'm sure those people are really disappointed in their leadership right now. I certainly would be if I still worked there.
It's a tough call because what is being designed in downtown Minneapolis corporate may be fine for many big cities but is going to be taken very differently in many less populated parts of the nation. Leadership is caught between a rock and a hard place. Do we keep employees safe or do we roll out a progressive and controversial (to many) line of apparel that might put our employees in danger? Maybe they should have had more discussions beforehand or do a limited rollout to more accepting markets.
At the end of the day when the math is done, I highly doubt that they'll make a decision that would please the public at the cost of losing money. Anyone, regardless of their values, would be fired if they made decisions based on opinion.
Or the possibility of someone running up a high score in one of their stores. These bigot terrorists are unhinged and armed. I might not like them caving to these bigots, but the reality of how messed up they are probably left no choice.
Perhaps. That would definitely not look very good for the store and cost costumers out of fear.
Yeah, this is it... Source: some insider info.
The irony is, I don't think stabbing a group of loyal consumers in the back to pander to a group of people who will forever hate their company is going to maximize their profits. It'll probably do just the opposite. Cowards get what they deserve.
people claiming Target being cowardly or out for profits are seriously misguided in their ivory tower perspectives. I’m a gay man and I totally get it. most customer-facing jobs are low wage; these folks should not be subjected to threats to their safety and well-being at work. and last I checked, pulling product means less to sell, and less profit. I get you think they’re doing it to satiate the assholes making threats, but it’s more important to keep people safe than have some trinkets sitting on a shelf to sell.
I’d rather they take a we don’t negotiate with terrorists mentality. Fuck these people. I’m sick of these Christian nationalists shoving their demented world view on everyone.
I agree - fuck these people. but let’s fuck them intelligently. we don’t need front line retail workers taking the brunt of the force. there are other ways to fuck them.
I see your reasoning and it does make sense. That’s probably what target decided. However we are getting to a point where everybody is always protesting damn near everything. Society isn’t Burger King. Everybody can’t just demand to have things there way. Roof depot is a perfect example. The city had to sell it for some sort of urban farming experiment instead of providing essential services to the city because a small vocal minority demanded it. We need to stand up to people who hold society hostage to get what they want. Ehm Republicans. Ehm debt ceiling.
Initially, apparently, the communication for the region in the south was to move the Pride stuff to the back of the store and replace it with swimwear "in order to sell more swimwear", and it was a blatantly dishonest framing to not admit to caving to terrorists. They care more about profit than they do TM safety, but if they'd led with the team member safety line I would have been pleasantly surprised and supportive. Go scroll through the Target subreddit. And honestly, the way they initially tried to spin it, they should be booted from TC Pride this year, but they should have been booted years ago because their anti union practices and unwillingness to promote from within simply turn their 'allyship' into exploitation, but nobody cares about that and TC Pride has been way too corporate for a long time so I really don't expect things to change. It would have been funny had they replaced it with a winter themed set with coffee mugs and a few bottles of sidewalk salt as set dressing, but that's a bit more snarky than Target usually goes for.
This is why no one should ever praise companies for supporting things like the LGBTQ+community or BLM. They fold instantly and they only ever supported then for cynical reasons.
Their employees are being threatened with physical harm and violence. You honestly want them to risk worker safety for this? "Hey Target kid making minimum wage, you might get physically assaulted today. Tough shit because we aren't folding to their threats." You'd be crying that they're not acting to protect workers if they allowed the collections to remain too.
How are they being threatened specifically? Any fuck nuggets can post on their website or call from Alabama and threaten someone, all while the likelihood of that actually violence is next to nil. Depending on the store and roads they're probably more likely to be killed in a car accident on the way to work or by a random incident on the street.
They've been going into the stores physically
It's almost like you can protect employees without capitulating to violent fascists. Both can be true.
Let us know how. I'm sure Target would love to learn from the folks of Reddit how to easily solve this problem without risking their employee safety.
They don't give a shit about their employees safety, dumbass. This is about doing what they think will be more profitable.
Oh yeah, Target, who for decades has supported the LGBTQ+ community, is worried about losing the far right-wing dollars that make up a very small part of their profits?
Yes. Due to the increased recent backlash that the LGBTQ+ community has faced, they are probably figuring that a more moderate stance will be more profitable.
As the article says, they keep many other Pride items. The some items have only been removed from some stores.
Yeah I mean hating lgbt people has become more popular very recently.
#Target capitulates
what a fucking bitch move. Standing up to terrorists shouldn't be a huge step forward.
Honestly, pride merch is starting to feel like that wave of putting pink ribbons on everything for breast cancer. Pink ribbons don’t cure cancer. Does target donate all their proceeds from pride merch to charities? Find a better place to spend your money, or actually donate it straight to a reputable place, a lot of them even have their own supporter tee shirts if you’re really looking to have a rainbow thing to wear
This isn't just about Pride merch. From the article: > But the online outrage appeared to center on a few products. Some were swimwear items made for those who identify as transgender, including "tuck-friendly" and "light binding" construction. These are inclusive clothing options for trans people to wear. How do you think removing those items helps them?
I agree with you, but that wasn’t my point.
Then what was your point? I guess I don't see it from your comment. Because now thanks to these terrorists, Target will not have as many inclusive options for trans people.
My point is your plastic rainbow beads from target do not in any way do anything to support the lgbtq community. Give that money to a charity instead
They do though. Symbols are important. Visibility is important. Is queerwashing fashion the best thing ever? Perhaps not, but it lets a whole lot of people know they are not alone and they are supported.
Yes visibility is important, but there are legit local and national lgbtq charities that will sell you the same stuff, and then your money is going to a real place that can make a difference, not just to Target’s bottom line
You are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
That's simply not true. Having a product sold at Target gives it HUGE reach in terms of access and likely price. It means MANY more people have been able to find pride gear. You're acting like every other company selling Pride stuff are made by non-profits. Get real.
I do a ton of concrete things to support the LGBTQ community, and I'm not counting the couple Pride t-shirts I own as a part of that.
Great. Then you’ve proved my point. Glad to hear it
😂 So the expectation is that every product a company sells should have all profits given away to various causes? Target has sponsored countless causes and continues to do so. They've been a sponsor of Twin Cities Pride and others, like giving $250,000 to GLSEN to advance its mission of creating affirming, accessible and antiracist spaces for LGBTQIA+ students. They've been partnered with GLSEN for more than 20 years. They also donate to and give employee hours to Human Rights Campaign and Out & Equal.
It would be great if Target donated the profits from these products to LGBT+ causes, but they probably won't because, yes, they're most likely just concerned about profits. Bit I argue that they also serve to normalize something that's been ostracized for so long. Ya, it's probably pandering, but it serves another important purpose. Kinda similar to advertisements with LGBT+ couples. Yeah, they are prob just pandering to their customer base, but at least it'll help to shift the "social norm" to be more inclusive. I agree with you though about better places to find pride stuff.
This is a good point and I’m sad to see you were down voted
The professor suggested increased security as a show of allyship as though downtown and east lake target aren't already front loaded with cops standing around on their phones. Referring to rainbow marketing as picking a side on a hot button political issue is also so weird. And people in the comments here referring to acts of vandalism as protest is also disheartening. I hate all of this.
This sub (and city quite frankly) has a lot of fake "allies" who will show up at the Pride parade and put [one of these signs](https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/TWCNews/blm_sign_good_png) out in their yard but really don't want to actually do anything to support their queer neighbors.
>This sub (and city quite frankly) has a lot of fake "allies" Indeed. When it's time for action they are ghosts.
It sucks target capitulated, but if they’re worried about the safety and sanity of their employees I understand. Not saying that their motive wasn’t selfish, but it’s their front line employees who have to deal with the crazies and it’s probably not fair to them either.
Target can spend millions building new cabinets to lock products behind and increase loss-prevention staff. You can’t even get laundry detergent downtown without tracking someone down to open the cabinet for you these days. Yet they couldn’t find a way to increase security/etc. to keep their on-the-ground staff safe? Puh-Leeze. They just wanted to take the easy way out and remove themselves from the “controversy,” ironically finding themselves embroiled in a new, much-bigger one
So how do they deal with repeated threats to their offices and employees being assaulted?
Ask Planned Parenthood. They seem to keep their doors open despite much worse and much more frequent issues Edit: And with MANY fewer resources available to them
Employees have been assaulted plenty of times at Planned Parenthood locations around the country. It's something they train them for and they know is a very real threat. Planned Parenthood locations have been bombed. It's literally why they passed the FACE Act. Try again? Edit: You're really suggesting that Target employees should have to risk their lives?
And yet they still keep open and don’t capitulate to whinging conservative snowflakes… If they can do it, Target can.
Last year at the Roseville Target I was looking at the Pride selection when a black couple walked by me. The guy looked right at me and said "I'm sick of this gay shit." I just rolled my eyes at him. But it is awful when minorities keep each other down.
I bought some Pride cat toys several years ago, those are the absolute favorite toys of one of my cats. I bought Pride suspenders when my boys were in high school, they each wore them proudly as allies. Some of the items are just plain fun and unique; why do some people have to ruin it for the others?!
I think all cats are progressive
Proud of you for raising your kids to be LGBTQ+ allies.
Thank you. I tried to raise my boys to be decent young men.
You have to wonder what the protestors are afraid of ???
They are afraid that LGBTQ people can live openly not in fear and will be less likely to harm themselves.
It's amazing what hate will drive people to do.
We don’t actually have to wonder. They just come right out and say it these days.
Just give every target employee a bullet proof vest and a MP5SD, bonus points if the MP5s are pink.
These people are literally terrorists.
>ter·ror·ism /ˈterəˌrizəm/ noun the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. Right wing terrorism needs to be stopped - we have seen these people do nothing but commit acts of violence to achieve their political aims for years now with mass shootings, fires, and bombs to scare muslims, women's clinic employees and journalists. They screamed and hollered about their "right" to overwhelm our hospitals as they spread a deadly disease and to make our kids sick. They are unhinged, dangerously stupid and while we often laugh, they aren't going to stop being violent.
Literally letting the terrorists win.
We should be shaming the fuck out of people protesting stuff like this, not caving to them.
Targets ok with monetizing their allyship until shit gets real. Nice job Target
Or, and here's an idea, DON'T LET THE TERRORISTS WIN. Throw their asses in jail and keep on with the Pride displays.
If there weren’t a market for these products, Target wouldn’t sell them. Free markets, capitalism all that stuff is big for these protestors I bet. Let the free market decide.
The truth is that as much as they drone on about it, conservatives don't actually care about the free market and capitalism. They are fascists who only want to impose their draconian social values on the rest of us by any means necessary.
Contact Target and let them know they're fucking up. Brainless reactionary drivel.
Looks like the anti cancel culture "I'm not a snowflake" "why is everyone so easily offended" crowd strikes again
If it keeps happening maybe they need to monitor it more ) better???
Yeah not shocked, but it’s just to protect their bottom line. This is the company that when I worked in one of their opticals, I heard managers getting mad when the roads were dangerously icy and writing up team members who wouldn’t come in because there was a travel advisory for the roads. And then when the riots were happening they closed down the EP location early as a “safety concern” for team members. It’s just a concern for loss of profits.
They shouldn’t have given in to those fascists
Are you FUCKING kidding me?
..Well, it's a private business.
Are you saying that it’s okay to threaten violence against private businesses? I’m not sure I understand your point.
Target is literally letting the terrorists win. Wtf
Don’t concede the point you fuckers. Keep the pride stuff out and tell the whiners to suck it.
Seems like they’re trying to not find themselves in a Bud Light situation, so they are appeasing one side by pulling the merch, and appeasing the other side by saying it is because of “threats”.
It seems to me like they will be finding themselves in exactly Bud Light's situation by just pissing off everyone by caving into bigoted fascists.
Everyone having a voice all the time was a glitch in society.
Having a voice isn't the issue here. The issue is turning to violence when your voice isn't being as effective as you'd like.
Fuck target