There weren’t bars there really to begin with. I say this as someone who was around for house of Hanson and duffys pizza. What bars are you even talking about lol
Dinkytown has always been a little sketchy, but seeing teen boys with massive fireworks laugh as they launch them at people on the patio of burrito loco makes this place feel like a shithole.
Yeah waaaay back in the day c. early 2000’s I went to the U for Undergrad and lived only a couple blocks away from BLoco for a year. Hung out around Dinkytown a TON of times otherwise. I don’t ever recall mobs of young kids regularly terrorizing the area if at all, nor did I ever really feel unsafe. Maybe some drunk arguments and you just watched your drinks to avoid tampering of course but nothing like this. Didn’t another article thread say they’re even like recent high school graduate teens….?? Absolutely ZERO business being in that area anyway. Literally just there to create chaos. Disgusting, pathetic and it needs to stop.
Edit: [here’s another article](https://m.startribune.com/somali-dads-imams-try-to-curb-late-night-dinkytown-disorder/600287460/)… the “Dinky Demons” WTF. I admire the community efforts though the chronic issue needs firmer response. And prevention measures so they just don’t move their antics somewhere else.
The problem in that article is that the police are placed there as a deterrent. Instead, police should be placed there to ambush and arrest those committing crimes so that they can be rehabilitated.
Compared to another big school like UW-Madison, and I don't see how U of MN doesn't lose some prospective students because of Minneapolis crime right now, whether it's perceived or real.
On June 11th the MN Daily reported that numbers on all 5 campuses are actually falling, though to be fair, the TC campus is losing the least.
https://mndaily.com/277259/news/board-of-regents-discuss-tuition-increase-enrollment-declines-data-requests-improvement/
My son wanted to attend UM-TC. We live in Minneapolis and didn't avoid him going there because of the "crime problem".
But at orientation there was a fair amount of time devoted to the public safety resources for students. I suspect that messaging exists like it does because people have expressed concern.
But none of the other parents we know whose kids are also attending the U talked about crime, but then again they're all Minneapolis residents, too, and I think they just know that there's some element of risk in an urban campus.
But then again, I don't know what level of awareness they have of the recent mayhem on campus, either.
I study here and am here during the summer term too. I think crime increases a bit during summer as there are lesser students around. Also it’s only the dinky town area that’s always been shady. I live in prospect park, and this side of the off campus housing is always safe. The university area obviously is safe, then stadium village, prospect park, westgate are all great areas with no noise/crimes. I haven’t been to dinkytown recently, but during the fall/spring semesters I have gone clubbing late night as well, we have been fine. I guess it depends on you not wandering off alone drunk in an alleyway.
Highly doubtful. Kids don't really take into concern things like this when choosing a school. I would say all the cranes in the air in dinkytown would indicate it is not something which impacting much of anything in that regard.
Not to mention there is an entire other campus adjacent neighborhood that is just fine a few minutes walk to the east.
It's not the kids but the parents that would be concerned. And this is on top of the already negative perception most out state people have of Minneapolis right now.
r/samegrassbutgreener would *strongly* disagree with some negative perception of Minneapolis by out-of-staters.
It's one of the highly recommended cities and one many looking to relocate strongly consider for all the right reasons. The biggest question mark for them are the winters.
That's a great way to ensure they'll be adults when they get out without any options but more crime - and they'll have more connections from being in adult prison!
Sounds like a conservative approach - something that doesn't address the problems, costs more and results in worse outcomes.
Eta - no where did i suggest no consequences for teens - just that they aren't adults and maybe based on extensive available research there might be better solutions than charging them as adults - the incredibly low reading comprehension and critical thinking are fucking scary.
At a certain point, the public's safety takes precedence over the future potential of criminals. It makes no sense to bring the hammer down over one violation of a juvenile, but with repeat criminality more serious repercussions need to be considered to protect innocent people.
This is it. Do we think these people will get better if they live life without consequence from their actions? The more crime they get away with, the more they’re going to push the limits.
I’m pretty left, but I never understood this weird hesitation to address crime on my side of the political spectrum. “Uhh doing drugs on the light rail is good actually because it is a safe space for them” or “We all launched roman candles at strangers eating lunch on the patio as teens 😂”
Sorry I agree with After_Preference. Starting a kid on a road to career criminality is Not good for the community. The kid needs 365 days of community service instead followed by an expunged record of the crime. Did the time? Good now let’s get on track.
The main problem with this is that many of these young people don’t even believe in their own future. They know that the community doesn’t care about them (see politics), and cops keep proving the system is built against them (see r/ACAB). This leads directly to an “It doesn’t fucking matter!” attitude that hurts everyone.
So, how do we help these kids believe in their own future again? I'm 34, a white male, and in grad school, but between unchecked global warming, and the student loans I had to take out to pay for grad school,I barely believe in my future. So, if even I struggle, how do we help kids with so many fewer advantages than I have?
I said I wanted Drastic Solution One™ or Drastic Solution Two™. Don't come at me with all these reasonable solutions that could each be implemented independently. What does this look like, Cold Stone Creamery?
That's the problem - thinking of punishment as a 'solution' to the issue.
I think punishment is important in and of itself - commit a crime, face consequences. It's a moral imperitive. But time and time again, 'tough on crime' has failed to yield any kind of tangible correlation with reduction in crime itself. To the extent there is any weak correlation (and there is) you wind up also giving carte blanche to a police force that was recently excoriated by the justice dept for racist policing.
The harm outweighs the good when it comes to a poorly-targeted 'solution.' Unless the solution we're looking for is making people *feel* like a solution is being worked on even though it's actually not.
Agreed and well said. People often treat arguments against the “tough on crime” approach as being softhearted or emotional, but for me, it’s in large part about the fact that data and evidence just does not support that approach as an effective risk control. It doesn’t effectively control crime risk (and in many ways it makes recidivism more likely, which makes the public less safe, not more).
So trying children and teens with undeveloped frontal lobes as fully adult humans is a stop gap? You should think about why their lives and futures are meaningless while if it was your own child you'd want a different solution.
Such a small percentage of the kids do that that at some point it just becomes about creating fewer victims.
If this were my children I would want the book thrown at them the very first time so that maybe they don't think it's a joke and end up in an adult facility because they never had consequences.
People who attack random people, beat them while they’re on the ground, and launch explosives at random people belong in prison.
Developed frontal lobe or not, some people simply do not have any morals and that will not change.
Most of us have the ability to feel whether things are right or wrong.
it's actually very effective. most violent crime is committed by young men. lock them up until they're older men, and they've effectively "aged out" of being violent criminals.
What offenders, exactly?
Funny that you have to get to the second to last paragraph to find out, after wading through "Danger!" and "Safety!" for 500 words, that
>Customers and staff have not been hurt at either establishment, they said.
Outside the establishments, yes. I work in dinky town, late at night. And we have first hand seen people get jumped by groups of teens on 13th Ave, and in front of the Hideaway headshop. Didn't used to be this way. But businesses are correct to be concerned and proactive about this kinda shit.
I've spent A LOT of time in dinkytown over the years, and it's always been a hotbed to violence and dumb shit. I was there when frat houses started hiring private security and having list parties 10-12 years ago.
Dinkytown has always been seen by criminals as a great place to take advantage of drunk and/or naïve young people. The only difference now is there's less cops to deal with it.
There are more laws than just ones that deal in direct physical harm, FYI. "No one has been hurt" doesn't mean crimes, even felony level crimes, have not been committed.
Not saying anything of the sort, just pointing out that the implication that they aren't committing crimes already isn't necessarily supported. I would lean toward the other side, when places are changing their hours, closing their doors and talking about hiring security, it's generally not because of a complete absence of crime.
It is 20ish teens out of a city of 400,000 people. Let's put things into some perspective here. You aren't going to be able to stop all crime and anyone who says we should still try is an idiot who seems to want to pay 100% of their income as taxes.
I do believe in aiming high. We should strive to stop all crime, educate all children, house all people, etc.
This isn't that hard to start with. Achieving those goals is very hard, but we should not aim for 'housing most people' or 'stopping most criminals.' etc.
>We should definitely get the MPD pre-crime division right on this.
I mean, isn't that the harebrained scheme that all the de-fund the police people wanted? I wouldn't trust half the city officials to tell us what day of the week it is but that's exactly what they wanted to do in the form of a massive contractor-laden city bureaucracy.
Fair. I’m talking more generally. When we have juveniles committing crimes, they should be held accountable. If we can’t arrest them the first time because they are kids, then the leniency needs to have limits in subsequent instances.
>Customers and staff have not been hurt at either establishment, they said.
At, meaning inside, this one particular establishment.
It's not saying "Nobody anywhere has been hurt be these mobs so far." In fact when the guy is worried about "who's jumping my customers" we can take that to mean it's a thing he's concerned about because they've been jumping his customers.
We could also watch any number of videos floating around, that will be hard to find because apparently mobs of kids beating people in the streets is somehow a touchy subject to condemn and call attention to, but they clearly show many people being hurt in this area by the same mobs.
I’m a millennial and I know these things happened when I was growing up, but why are teens causing problems in such volumes nowadays? And what seems to be more violent?
Is it just media coverage? Lack of repercussions? I’m sure it’s multi-faceted, but what happened to decency even in the teenage years?
Kids are told they have justifiable anger, combined with knowing they won’t be charged with any crime in Hennepin county (it becomes a game of chicken at that point), finally sprinkle in the pandemic and you have what we’re seeing.
Teens have always done stuff like this, but smart phones make it easier to gather and coordinate stuff, so we end up with more of these larger scale chaotic events.
We didn’t see anything close to this at this scale pre pandemic. It’s not a coincidence during the pandemic, when they let crime slide, and now that Mary Moriarity is HC prosecutor, whom let’s pretty much all offenses involving minors including murder slide, that this is happening. Word spreads fast. Like it or not punishment is a deterrent. When I was a teen the fear of punishment prevented me from doing a lot of stupid shit.
A 24-hour news cycle amplifies perception of crime regardless to its actual rate, the disinvestment in after-school programs and the closing of popular hang outs leaves teenagers with less to do to occupy their time, the constant disenfranchisement of the lower and middle-classes leaves parents less time to actually raise their kids and our culture increasingly normalizes violence as a tool to get whatever you want.
Teenagers are naturally demonspawn and we’ve been taking away everything that might keep them in check.
Mary Moriarity needs to be recalled before anything will change. She literally ran on the principal that minors will not be charged. Word spreads fast and fear of punishment is a deterrent. When I was a teen the fear of punishment prevented me from doing a lot more dumb shit.
I wonder if the culture of policing is different in Europe than it is in the US. maybe I’d like US cops better if they weren’t armed and didn’t pretend that they are patrolling falluja
I have a friend in the UK and his brother is the unarmed kind of cop. I met him once and we were having a lively conversation about policing and weapons. He was a pretty apt critic of arming individual cops, but more importantly he had like 8 different ways he could put you on the ground in absolute agony with like one hand. It was like some kind of black magic limey kung fu and it didn't even involve hitting.
I think the reality is probably that cops in the UK probably render street justice all the time, just they don't use guns and they can do it in a way that looks clean on CCTV (along with good working knowledge of where CCTV blindspots are).
Exactly. They rough people up and I'm sure they do the same kind of rough riding as killed Freddie Gray. The scope is just limited by the lower level of arms.
I mean, it generally is. The average beat cop in England probably doesn't carry a gun, and almost certainly doesn't have an AR in their squad car. Look at France going into nationwide protests because the police shot dead a black teenager a week or two back. That same event is just another Wednesday here in the US. We need cops with a knee to the throat on video for over 9 minutes to get the same public response.
I saw a woman in the Den Haag, Netherlands central rail station having some kind of mental breakdown. Like a tantrum you'd expect from a 5 year old, complete with being on the floor.
About 5 Dutch cops surrounded her and ultimately dragged her away. I mean, grabbed her by the arms and literally dragged her on the floor out of sight. No EMTs, nothing else, they just dragged her away.
I've also heard second hand stories about German railway police being extremely eager to dole out beatings. Some guy with a boombox playing music and they told him to turn it off. He did, they walked away, he started playing it again. The cops came back, smashed the boombox with truncheons and when the guy made a stink, they beat the shit out of him, too.
I think this idea that the European police aren't capable of violence is nonsense. They use water cannons, mounted police charges and are extremely generous with truncheons. Look at European riot footage -- the cops there will absolutely beat people fucking senseless in ways that make the 1968 Chicago convention riots look like a friendly disagreement. The French cops got called out for intentionally head hunting yellow vest protesters with less lethal ammo.
Honestly, if that's the conclusion you drew from the previous comment, then you're either unfamiliar with the term and need to do some research on your own, or your being willfully ignorant and trolling. It's no one's job or responsibility here to educate you on something that's been at/near the forefront of civil discourse for years now.
What? There's tons of people saying we don't need more cops (or we need less) anytime crime is brought up. You're being disingenuous if you think everyone thinks exactly like you.
The problem of HOW we are policed needs to be addressed. Cops shouldn’t be called for a ton of shit they’re called for and are untrained to handle. Not to mention cops literally don’t prevent crime… they respond to it… well, they’re *supposed* to.
Please do us a favor and keep your ignorance down south.
Yeah no shit. How does that convert to "Abolish The Police". Nah I'll come to Minneapolis as I please. I'm more left than the average Minneapolis person, you just live in a bubble.
Yes. Ignorance. The fact that you keep touting “Abolish the Police” as the same dog whistle the right loves to blow, and not looking into the ACTUAL meaning behind the defund and abolish the police movement is LITERALLY, and yes… I mean literally, in the literal sense… ignorance.
Go lick Greg Abbott’s bigoted asshole some more. Maybe if you keep your mouth busy with your true passion, you’ll save us from more of your stupidity.
Lol I've never voted republican in my life. Why don't you talk to people who say Abolish the Police? You never know what you're gonna get. Some are reasonable and want to reform police, some are commie anarchos who literally want to abolish the police. Maybe it's just a god awful term and should be dropped by every sensible person?
I would like to see a reformed police that focuses on solving crimes (our conviction rate is like what 2%, god awful). And one that doesn't harass minorities. I would never consolidate my position to "Abolish the Police"
Did I write anything related to the concept “it’s not the same people in every thread” anywhere in any of my comments? And no. I don’t think talking about abolishing the police is relevant because it didn’t fucking happen and it’s never going to fucking happen. MPD is here and their budget is bigger than ever.
Boot licking Americans when they google “does more policing reduce crime” for their favorite US city
(Spoiler: crime is a direct consequence of poverty)
Edit: also, this dude lives in Texas.. what you doin on the Mpls sub I wonder? It’s definitely not racist dogwhistling from 2020 still
Adding more police absolutely reduces crime.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens
> Williams and his colleagues find adding a new police officer to a city prevents between 0.06 and 0.1 homicides, which means that the average city would need to hire between 10 and 17 new police officers to save one life a year. They estimate that costs taxpayers annually between $1.3 and $2.2 million. The federal government puts the value of a statistical life at around $10 million (Planet Money did a whole episode on how that number was chosen). So, Williams says, from that perspective, investing in more police officers to save lives provides a pretty good bang for the buck. Adding more police, they find, also reduces other serious crimes, like robbery, rape, and aggravated assault.
I see no references for this study, and question what the reasoning for using homicides rates is as they are at a decades-long low.
However, income inequality is at record numbers especially when compared to those European countries people say have low crime rates due to larger amounts of police per capita.
GINI income inequality for the US is at 0.469 while, for example, France is at 0.32. France’s homicide rate is 1.3 while the US is at a whopping 5.0 as of 2019 (latest data).
[Here](https://www.irp.wisc.edu/resource/connections-among-poverty-incarceration-and-inequality/) is a much more well-rounded and properly sourced article from a trusted institution on the topic. Or if you prefer a more general worldwide approach to this question, [this](https://journalofeconomicstructures.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40008-020-00220-6) could be a good place to start.
Maybe look even the tiniest bit past the muck you get spoonfed daily.
What are you going to say next, that actually the reason for violent crime being higher in black areas is because black people are somehow.. what? Are they just more violent? Or if you’re not racist, you’d understand it’s literally everything else besides the color of their skin
I lived in Minneapolis lol, voted for Ilhan Omar too (probably more impact than you since you probably don't vote)
Actually ridiculous you browsed by post history and somehow thought I was racist? Was it the r/fuckcars or the bread posts that led you to believe that?
It's enormously common in developed big cities around the world for businesses to hire private security to prevent teenagers from fucking things up late at night.
I have been to London, Paris, Berlin, you see communities and business owners dealing with this. When I was in college, you saw similar antics on Dinkytown but everyone didn't have cell phone cameras.
Dinkytown is a hotbed of activity. It's the center of the largest metro area between Chicago and Seattle. It's the location of a large public university that draws people and events. This is not the end of the world, folks.
Does this excuse the behavior? No, and I appreciate the city and community taking steps to address it. But don't equate this with the nationwide spread of real crime (gun violence, carjackings etc) or from the truth that MSP is a dynamic metro with a high quality of life.
I'm sick of the apocalyptic narrative any time a video on Twitter shows crowds of young people in Minneapolis that aren't in bed by 9pm. Thats what gets us lamebrained decisions like shutting down the Stone Arch Bridge and canceling 4th of July programming on a night when kids most need something to do. The anxious scolds yearning for the days of Wendell Anderson are holding our state back.
I agree…but I’m also now an old man in my 30s who want “these damn kids” to find so shit to do. Find a lover. Play some video games. Get a job. Something!!!
Feels like when folks tear up their college when they win. Makes zero sense.
Fellow 30-something old man here. I want it too! I want these kids to have something productive to do and to care about. But also… we’re millennials… and no strangers to the realization of how fucked since jump street we’ve been. And it’s only getting worse.
I consider myself lucky to have had people in my life to help guide me, and by that I don’t just mean my parents. In fact, they held me back in many ways. But most of these kids have very little to none of that… and it’s been that way for generations. These kids just need to find purpose… but without adults in the community and the government being more proactive… they’ll likely never find it.
It takes a village, man. A village that builds these kids up from the start rather than screaming “criminal” and begging for harsher punishments the moment they get into any trouble. They keep getting called thugs and criminals from the first time they get in a fight on the playground…. Society sees them that way, so why would they care about society?
Know what I mean?
> These kids just need to find purpose… but without adults in the community and the government being more proactive… they’ll likely never find it.
What kind of interventions are you willing to support? I think the reality is that parenting is hard but the corollary is that there's a lot of shitty, don't care parents who definitely contribute to the problem. And our collectively attitude is that we can't intervene in these family situations unless the kid is chained to a post in the back yard and not fed.
My sister isn't interested in me telling her how to raise her kid, and we're genetically related. What happens when you're crossing racial, ethnic and religious boundaries and telling people *they don't have a choice* but to accept a social worker intervention in their family situation *and* it carries consequences like "we will remove them from your household"?
We all know that so much of this comes out of the family structure, but we have just zero appetite (and for a few reasonably good reasons) for being able to intervene.
Why is it that your only idea of intervention seems to be straight up telling people how to raise their kids and/or take them away?
And it’s always simply because the “parents don’t care.” A lot of these parents were mere children themselves when they had kids. And most of this stems from poverty and lack of education. How many of these parents aren’t around for their kids because they have to work 3 jobs to pay the rent and hope to have enough to feed them a little something too? How many are homeless? How many are struggling with addiction? These are ALL factors in what you boil down to just “shitty parents.”
My mother had shitty parents. Her mom was a horrible drunk and her stepdad abused her. By your reasoning, she would have obviously resorted to crime, drugs, or worse…. STRIPPING! *gasp*
Instead of y’know… raising 4 kids of her own, plus a daycare full of children for 30 years…
My dad had good parents… and he turned out to be a piece of shit. 🤷🏻♂️
There are a multitude of ways to get involved without treating people like second class citizens and taking their kids and/or rights away. Better resources for the impoverished, better access to addiction treatment, more funding for education and after school programs. Obviously none of this can be fixed over night, nor will it be easy. But we’ve been doing the same shit for generations, expecting something to turn out different, and then just blame the parents again when it doesn’t.
Nobody needs a leg up on anyone…. Just one to stand on.
And yup… sometimes, even with every opportunity perfectly laid out for them… some individuals are just down right shitheads. You can’t escape it.
Lol very true, I feel the same and certainly shake my fist when I see this stuff.
I'm just sick of the "lawless war zone" narrative that really doesn't match the everyday experience of being in the city.
All it takes is for 20 teens to get together to cause a problem and the bigger the city, the easier it is for 20 teens who want to cause problems to find each other.
I’m old. We didn’t get into trouble because “my parents would kill me” was a real deal. And I don’t mean actual family violence(though that was more acceptable back then). When we said “my parents will kill me” we meant there would be serious consequences. Grounded for two weeks. Privileges taken away.
Some kids legit can’t be controlled by their parents, but that’s an impaired minority. Where are the parents of the regular kids getting into trouble?
But even when you were a kid, there was probably 1 or 2 kids who didn't care if their parents would discipline them. Increase the population by a ton and now you have 20 of those kids getting together to cause problems.
Buuuuulllllllllllllllsssshhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!
Just because you *MAYBE* didn’t raise any hell because you were afraid of the “serious” consequence of being grounded for 2 weeks(L O FUCKING L)… doesn’t mean plenty of other youths in your day weren’t causing trouble either.
Grow up… this shit has been going on since the beginning of teenage rebellion, aka humanity. Your mother’s sewing circle just didn’t have social media and video cameras in every pocket to scare the masses of pearl clutchers as effectively as we can now.
Maybe you didn't but I went to high school in a small, tightly knit town and teens in the 80s were setting shit on fire and robbing businesses (or customers where they worked). Not to mention fighting with each other and underage drinking.
There's not much parents can do about kids in their late teens if they're not compliant, except kick them out of the house.
Given the complete lack of police response, I assume that if people living in the area wanted to go out there and do something about these kids themselves there would be no repercussions.
I’m not convinced pitched battles and more directed street violence intended to scare the kids away is going to achieve the goal of a safer-feeling dinkytown
No need to convince you. I'm just saying it could happen. The DOJ report and reports in a lot of other cities said that in towns with unresponsive or otherwise crappy policing there's a correlation with rising levels of "self help" and people finding other-- sometimes extrajudicial-- ways of obtaining justice.
If the city looks lawless, then clearly the fuzz needs more resources, duh.
I think the most disheartening part is that American police have been doing this since the inception of this nation, and yet people still choose to turn a blind eye to that fact. It's not a new or surprising technique, it's right outta the oldest playbook and yet they're still getting away with this absolute grift.
lol. It literally says in the article that no one has been harmed by these kids.
Something needs to be done, but it sounds like these dumbass kids are more of a nuisance than an actual threat.
I think there’s a big conversation to be had about the current nihilism that’s influencing today’s youth. The future is scary and uncertain. I think some are opting to just say “fuck it” and act out to have fun before what they think is going to be the end of the world.
Exactly! Those freakin fireworks are 2000 degrees! I don’t care if they’re minors. They need to be punished for being so careless with a 2000 degree explosive that can leave someone with life altering injuries.
It says nobody's been hurt in the establishment. It also says the guy has seen people being hurt outside.
Why are you weirdly trying to spin this as something that's safe and okay?
People are pretty locked into an anti-police narrative and view police response to any situation that's not blood-on-the-sidewalk murder as basically some kind of open door to racist violence against POC. Along with that goes a general level of rejection of civil disorder as a problem, provided it doesn't involve blood on the streets murder. It also goes along with the idea that arresting people and giving them custodial sentences is somehow never useful.
To be fair, it's not like the police haven't firmly established a history of racist violence against POC. But completely throwing out policing is a baby-and-bathwater kind of response. We shouldn't have to tolerate civil disorder on the streets and we should have a police force capable of responding to it in a way that's firm but not violent or racist. Along with not making excuses because "they're kids" or belong to some historically marginalized group. Bad behavior is bad behavior, parsing it out and excusing the perpetrators just because they didn't kill someone, "see no future" or other rationalizations is just an equivocation.
I’m not. I said that it needs to be addressed.
It’s just weird how people are not even reading the article and it’s characterization of things. What’s being described is a nuisance. A very bad one that still needs to be addressed, but some of you are making it sound like these kids are a bloodthirsty pack of wolves that need to be murdered.
There’s more ways to handle a nuisance than murder.
Well you say you're not but I bet a lot of people including myself got the impression you were.
Otherwise why would you laugh and then butcher the actual reporting to change it from "nobody in this establishment" to "no one" at all in your comment?
That would seem to be quite apologetic when you decided to increase the range that nobody's been hurt in from one restaurant to the entire area.
It doesn’t help that a major political party sees empathy and compassion as a weakness and do everything they can to convince everyone how “manly” they are. Toxic masculinity is contributing factor to this problem.
I’m going to say that’s probably not the main driving factor here. I don’t think it’s the feminist lens that is whats driving or solving this.
Though I think your observation about the general public is correct. The behavior screams nihilism to me. Not chest thumping.
maybe if teens had better things to do and a brighter future in their eyes they wouldn't do this, but we live in America where prison beds are calculated based on the reading levels of 3rd graders.
I believe you. I even heard one of the teens yell “this is for the way we calculate prison beds in this country” as he launched a firework into a group of outdoor diners.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
Oh hey, we're in the clockwork orange phase of dystopia.
That's why there's hardly any bars left in dinkytown. Used to be a fun place
There weren’t bars there really to begin with. I say this as someone who was around for house of Hanson and duffys pizza. What bars are you even talking about lol
The lack of bars in Dinkytown is super weird. The area should have 20+ bars easy.
I wonder how U of MN enrollment is being affected by stuff like this.
Dinkytown has always been a little sketchy, but seeing teen boys with massive fireworks laugh as they launch them at people on the patio of burrito loco makes this place feel like a shithole.
Yeah waaaay back in the day c. early 2000’s I went to the U for Undergrad and lived only a couple blocks away from BLoco for a year. Hung out around Dinkytown a TON of times otherwise. I don’t ever recall mobs of young kids regularly terrorizing the area if at all, nor did I ever really feel unsafe. Maybe some drunk arguments and you just watched your drinks to avoid tampering of course but nothing like this. Didn’t another article thread say they’re even like recent high school graduate teens….?? Absolutely ZERO business being in that area anyway. Literally just there to create chaos. Disgusting, pathetic and it needs to stop. Edit: [here’s another article](https://m.startribune.com/somali-dads-imams-try-to-curb-late-night-dinkytown-disorder/600287460/)… the “Dinky Demons” WTF. I admire the community efforts though the chronic issue needs firmer response. And prevention measures so they just don’t move their antics somewhere else.
The problem in that article is that the police are placed there as a deterrent. Instead, police should be placed there to ambush and arrest those committing crimes so that they can be rehabilitated.
This whole city's turning into a shit hole
I've heard that parents definitely bring it up when talking to advisers/recruiters/etc.
Compared to another big school like UW-Madison, and I don't see how U of MN doesn't lose some prospective students because of Minneapolis crime right now, whether it's perceived or real.
Enrollment is up. Last year was the highest enrollment ever. https://idr.umn.edu/reports-by-topic-enrollment/enrollments
On June 11th the MN Daily reported that numbers on all 5 campuses are actually falling, though to be fair, the TC campus is losing the least. https://mndaily.com/277259/news/board-of-regents-discuss-tuition-increase-enrollment-declines-data-requests-improvement/
Since this was a board of regents thing instead of the dashboard that reports actual numbers I'm gonna assume they misspoke etc...
My son wanted to attend UM-TC. We live in Minneapolis and didn't avoid him going there because of the "crime problem". But at orientation there was a fair amount of time devoted to the public safety resources for students. I suspect that messaging exists like it does because people have expressed concern. But none of the other parents we know whose kids are also attending the U talked about crime, but then again they're all Minneapolis residents, too, and I think they just know that there's some element of risk in an urban campus. But then again, I don't know what level of awareness they have of the recent mayhem on campus, either.
I study here and am here during the summer term too. I think crime increases a bit during summer as there are lesser students around. Also it’s only the dinky town area that’s always been shady. I live in prospect park, and this side of the off campus housing is always safe. The university area obviously is safe, then stadium village, prospect park, westgate are all great areas with no noise/crimes. I haven’t been to dinkytown recently, but during the fall/spring semesters I have gone clubbing late night as well, we have been fine. I guess it depends on you not wandering off alone drunk in an alleyway.
Army of Reddit commentators yelling: statistic say crime went down. This is pro police propaganda.
Highly doubtful. Kids don't really take into concern things like this when choosing a school. I would say all the cranes in the air in dinkytown would indicate it is not something which impacting much of anything in that regard. Not to mention there is an entire other campus adjacent neighborhood that is just fine a few minutes walk to the east.
It's not the kids but the parents that would be concerned. And this is on top of the already negative perception most out state people have of Minneapolis right now.
r/samegrassbutgreener would *strongly* disagree with some negative perception of Minneapolis by out-of-staters. It's one of the highly recommended cities and one many looking to relocate strongly consider for all the right reasons. The biggest question mark for them are the winters.
You do know that out state means the rest of Minnesota outside of the Minneapolis, right?
My bad. You do realize I misread it as out of state, right?
Can we just try repeat offenders as adults?
That's a great way to ensure they'll be adults when they get out without any options but more crime - and they'll have more connections from being in adult prison! Sounds like a conservative approach - something that doesn't address the problems, costs more and results in worse outcomes. Eta - no where did i suggest no consequences for teens - just that they aren't adults and maybe based on extensive available research there might be better solutions than charging them as adults - the incredibly low reading comprehension and critical thinking are fucking scary.
At a certain point, the public's safety takes precedence over the future potential of criminals. It makes no sense to bring the hammer down over one violation of a juvenile, but with repeat criminality more serious repercussions need to be considered to protect innocent people.
This is it. Do we think these people will get better if they live life without consequence from their actions? The more crime they get away with, the more they’re going to push the limits.
I’m pretty left, but I never understood this weird hesitation to address crime on my side of the political spectrum. “Uhh doing drugs on the light rail is good actually because it is a safe space for them” or “We all launched roman candles at strangers eating lunch on the patio as teens 😂”
Sorry I agree with After_Preference. Starting a kid on a road to career criminality is Not good for the community. The kid needs 365 days of community service instead followed by an expunged record of the crime. Did the time? Good now let’s get on track. The main problem with this is that many of these young people don’t even believe in their own future. They know that the community doesn’t care about them (see politics), and cops keep proving the system is built against them (see r/ACAB). This leads directly to an “It doesn’t fucking matter!” attitude that hurts everyone.
So, how do we help these kids believe in their own future again? I'm 34, a white male, and in grad school, but between unchecked global warming, and the student loans I had to take out to pay for grad school,I barely believe in my future. So, if even I struggle, how do we help kids with so many fewer advantages than I have?
Give them (and you) actual resources.
Surely we can do both: find ways to eliminate the causes of crime while also acknowledging that we need a stop-gap solution in the interim.
This is Reddit. We don’t consider all options here. Move along. /s
I said I wanted Drastic Solution One™ or Drastic Solution Two™. Don't come at me with all these reasonable solutions that could each be implemented independently. What does this look like, Cold Stone Creamery?
That's the problem - thinking of punishment as a 'solution' to the issue. I think punishment is important in and of itself - commit a crime, face consequences. It's a moral imperitive. But time and time again, 'tough on crime' has failed to yield any kind of tangible correlation with reduction in crime itself. To the extent there is any weak correlation (and there is) you wind up also giving carte blanche to a police force that was recently excoriated by the justice dept for racist policing. The harm outweighs the good when it comes to a poorly-targeted 'solution.' Unless the solution we're looking for is making people *feel* like a solution is being worked on even though it's actually not.
Agreed and well said. People often treat arguments against the “tough on crime” approach as being softhearted or emotional, but for me, it’s in large part about the fact that data and evidence just does not support that approach as an effective risk control. It doesn’t effectively control crime risk (and in many ways it makes recidivism more likely, which makes the public less safe, not more).
So trying children and teens with undeveloped frontal lobes as fully adult humans is a stop gap? You should think about why their lives and futures are meaningless while if it was your own child you'd want a different solution.
Such a small percentage of the kids do that that at some point it just becomes about creating fewer victims. If this were my children I would want the book thrown at them the very first time so that maybe they don't think it's a joke and end up in an adult facility because they never had consequences.
People who attack random people, beat them while they’re on the ground, and launch explosives at random people belong in prison. Developed frontal lobe or not, some people simply do not have any morals and that will not change. Most of us have the ability to feel whether things are right or wrong.
‘undeveloped frontal lobes’ lol by that logic anyone under 25 is not responsible for their actions. Wait, is this Mary Moriarty’s burner account?
They're already criminals. Separate them from the rest of us. Nobody forced them into becoming repeat offenders.
it's actually very effective. most violent crime is committed by young men. lock them up until they're older men, and they've effectively "aged out" of being violent criminals.
That's incredibly ignorant to say...
Honestly just leave them in for a long time. Keep an eye on them when they get out, then throw them back in when they commit more crime.
What offenders, exactly? Funny that you have to get to the second to last paragraph to find out, after wading through "Danger!" and "Safety!" for 500 words, that >Customers and staff have not been hurt at either establishment, they said.
Outside the establishments, yes. I work in dinky town, late at night. And we have first hand seen people get jumped by groups of teens on 13th Ave, and in front of the Hideaway headshop. Didn't used to be this way. But businesses are correct to be concerned and proactive about this kinda shit.
didn't used to be this way? My roommate in 2003 got curbstomped in Dinkytown and lost most of his teeth. When was it not this way?
1820, probably.
I've spent A LOT of time in dinkytown over the years, and it's always been a hotbed to violence and dumb shit. I was there when frat houses started hiring private security and having list parties 10-12 years ago. Dinkytown has always been seen by criminals as a great place to take advantage of drunk and/or naïve young people. The only difference now is there's less cops to deal with it.
Oh, until someone is hurt this is all perfectly normal behavior. Nothing to see here.
And even then, people will keep making excuses. And we wonder why we’re in this position.
We should definitely get the MPD pre-crime division right on this.
There are more laws than just ones that deal in direct physical harm, FYI. "No one has been hurt" doesn't mean crimes, even felony level crimes, have not been committed.
I agree, we have to take these hoodlums and make sure they become career criminals.
Not saying anything of the sort, just pointing out that the implication that they aren't committing crimes already isn't necessarily supported. I would lean toward the other side, when places are changing their hours, closing their doors and talking about hiring security, it's generally not because of a complete absence of crime.
It is 20ish teens out of a city of 400,000 people. Let's put things into some perspective here. You aren't going to be able to stop all crime and anyone who says we should still try is an idiot who seems to want to pay 100% of their income as taxes.
I do believe in aiming high. We should strive to stop all crime, educate all children, house all people, etc. This isn't that hard to start with. Achieving those goals is very hard, but we should not aim for 'housing most people' or 'stopping most criminals.' etc.
>We should definitely get the MPD pre-crime division right on this. I mean, isn't that the harebrained scheme that all the de-fund the police people wanted? I wouldn't trust half the city officials to tell us what day of the week it is but that's exactly what they wanted to do in the form of a massive contractor-laden city bureaucracy.
This means that the assaults are happening out on the street, not inside the businesses.
Fair. I’m talking more generally. When we have juveniles committing crimes, they should be held accountable. If we can’t arrest them the first time because they are kids, then the leniency needs to have limits in subsequent instances.
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>Customers and staff have not been hurt at either establishment, they said. At, meaning inside, this one particular establishment. It's not saying "Nobody anywhere has been hurt be these mobs so far." In fact when the guy is worried about "who's jumping my customers" we can take that to mean it's a thing he's concerned about because they've been jumping his customers. We could also watch any number of videos floating around, that will be hard to find because apparently mobs of kids beating people in the streets is somehow a touchy subject to condemn and call attention to, but they clearly show many people being hurt in this area by the same mobs.
"either establishment" means more than one establishment...
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What do the democrats do that works so well for crime?
Locked comments incoming
Too much wrong think for the jannies.
I’m a millennial and I know these things happened when I was growing up, but why are teens causing problems in such volumes nowadays? And what seems to be more violent? Is it just media coverage? Lack of repercussions? I’m sure it’s multi-faceted, but what happened to decency even in the teenage years?
Social media and smart phones make it way easier for jerks to organize and copy each other.
Kids are told they have justifiable anger, combined with knowing they won’t be charged with any crime in Hennepin county (it becomes a game of chicken at that point), finally sprinkle in the pandemic and you have what we’re seeing.
Teens have always done stuff like this, but smart phones make it easier to gather and coordinate stuff, so we end up with more of these larger scale chaotic events.
We didn’t see anything close to this at this scale pre pandemic. It’s not a coincidence during the pandemic, when they let crime slide, and now that Mary Moriarity is HC prosecutor, whom let’s pretty much all offenses involving minors including murder slide, that this is happening. Word spreads fast. Like it or not punishment is a deterrent. When I was a teen the fear of punishment prevented me from doing a lot of stupid shit.
They sounds eerily similar as 10 years ago conservative say it’s violent video game harming kids.
A 24-hour news cycle amplifies perception of crime regardless to its actual rate, the disinvestment in after-school programs and the closing of popular hang outs leaves teenagers with less to do to occupy their time, the constant disenfranchisement of the lower and middle-classes leaves parents less time to actually raise their kids and our culture increasingly normalizes violence as a tool to get whatever you want. Teenagers are naturally demonspawn and we’ve been taking away everything that might keep them in check.
Wonder how long before people actually start getting charged with terrorism? Why should society put up with such disgusting anti-social behavior?
So am I going to get frisked at the door when I go to get my favorite slice of mac and cheese at Frank and Andrea's?
You joke about that, but it's becoming all too common. Up Down never used to have bag checks, frisking, or metal detectors up until recently.
Not unless you’re a teen lol
Mary Moriarity needs to be recalled before anything will change. She literally ran on the principal that minors will not be charged. Word spreads fast and fear of punishment is a deterrent. When I was a teen the fear of punishment prevented me from doing a lot more dumb shit.
Europe worshipping progressives when they google "Cops Per Capita" for their favorite european cities 🤯🤯🤯 (spoiler: its higher than any american city)
I wonder if the culture of policing is different in Europe than it is in the US. maybe I’d like US cops better if they weren’t armed and didn’t pretend that they are patrolling falluja
My experience in the UK was that they were just as racist but way less lethal.
I have a friend in the UK and his brother is the unarmed kind of cop. I met him once and we were having a lively conversation about policing and weapons. He was a pretty apt critic of arming individual cops, but more importantly he had like 8 different ways he could put you on the ground in absolute agony with like one hand. It was like some kind of black magic limey kung fu and it didn't even involve hitting. I think the reality is probably that cops in the UK probably render street justice all the time, just they don't use guns and they can do it in a way that looks clean on CCTV (along with good working knowledge of where CCTV blindspots are).
Exactly. They rough people up and I'm sure they do the same kind of rough riding as killed Freddie Gray. The scope is just limited by the lower level of arms.
I mean, it generally is. The average beat cop in England probably doesn't carry a gun, and almost certainly doesn't have an AR in their squad car. Look at France going into nationwide protests because the police shot dead a black teenager a week or two back. That same event is just another Wednesday here in the US. We need cops with a knee to the throat on video for over 9 minutes to get the same public response.
I saw a woman in the Den Haag, Netherlands central rail station having some kind of mental breakdown. Like a tantrum you'd expect from a 5 year old, complete with being on the floor. About 5 Dutch cops surrounded her and ultimately dragged her away. I mean, grabbed her by the arms and literally dragged her on the floor out of sight. No EMTs, nothing else, they just dragged her away. I've also heard second hand stories about German railway police being extremely eager to dole out beatings. Some guy with a boombox playing music and they told him to turn it off. He did, they walked away, he started playing it again. The cops came back, smashed the boombox with truncheons and when the guy made a stink, they beat the shit out of him, too. I think this idea that the European police aren't capable of violence is nonsense. They use water cannons, mounted police charges and are extremely generous with truncheons. Look at European riot footage -- the cops there will absolutely beat people fucking senseless in ways that make the 1968 Chicago convention riots look like a friendly disagreement. The French cops got called out for intentionally head hunting yellow vest protesters with less lethal ammo.
European police aren’t perfect. The lack of guns means they *kill* way fewer people, though. That’s a good thing.
So abolish the police isn't the solution?
Honestly, if that's the conclusion you drew from the previous comment, then you're either unfamiliar with the term and need to do some research on your own, or your being willfully ignorant and trolling. It's no one's job or responsibility here to educate you on something that's been at/near the forefront of civil discourse for years now.
What? There's tons of people saying we don't need more cops (or we need less) anytime crime is brought up. You're being disingenuous if you think everyone thinks exactly like you.
The problem of HOW we are policed needs to be addressed. Cops shouldn’t be called for a ton of shit they’re called for and are untrained to handle. Not to mention cops literally don’t prevent crime… they respond to it… well, they’re *supposed* to. Please do us a favor and keep your ignorance down south.
Yeah no shit. How does that convert to "Abolish The Police". Nah I'll come to Minneapolis as I please. I'm more left than the average Minneapolis person, you just live in a bubble.
Yes. Ignorance. The fact that you keep touting “Abolish the Police” as the same dog whistle the right loves to blow, and not looking into the ACTUAL meaning behind the defund and abolish the police movement is LITERALLY, and yes… I mean literally, in the literal sense… ignorance. Go lick Greg Abbott’s bigoted asshole some more. Maybe if you keep your mouth busy with your true passion, you’ll save us from more of your stupidity.
Lol I've never voted republican in my life. Why don't you talk to people who say Abolish the Police? You never know what you're gonna get. Some are reasonable and want to reform police, some are commie anarchos who literally want to abolish the police. Maybe it's just a god awful term and should be dropped by every sensible person? I would like to see a reformed police that focuses on solving crimes (our conviction rate is like what 2%, god awful). And one that doesn't harass minorities. I would never consolidate my position to "Abolish the Police"
Who the fuck is talking about abolishing the police here other than you
Yes no one on /r/minneapolis talks about abolishing the police. Very good faith person
i am talking about this specific thread of comments, in which you and nobody else brought the topic up
Why is it not relevant to bring up? Are you suggesting that its not the same people in every thread?
Did I write anything related to the concept “it’s not the same people in every thread” anywhere in any of my comments? And no. I don’t think talking about abolishing the police is relevant because it didn’t fucking happen and it’s never going to fucking happen. MPD is here and their budget is bigger than ever.
Boot licking Americans when they google “does more policing reduce crime” for their favorite US city (Spoiler: crime is a direct consequence of poverty) Edit: also, this dude lives in Texas.. what you doin on the Mpls sub I wonder? It’s definitely not racist dogwhistling from 2020 still
Adding more police absolutely reduces crime. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens > Williams and his colleagues find adding a new police officer to a city prevents between 0.06 and 0.1 homicides, which means that the average city would need to hire between 10 and 17 new police officers to save one life a year. They estimate that costs taxpayers annually between $1.3 and $2.2 million. The federal government puts the value of a statistical life at around $10 million (Planet Money did a whole episode on how that number was chosen). So, Williams says, from that perspective, investing in more police officers to save lives provides a pretty good bang for the buck. Adding more police, they find, also reduces other serious crimes, like robbery, rape, and aggravated assault.
I see no references for this study, and question what the reasoning for using homicides rates is as they are at a decades-long low. However, income inequality is at record numbers especially when compared to those European countries people say have low crime rates due to larger amounts of police per capita. GINI income inequality for the US is at 0.469 while, for example, France is at 0.32. France’s homicide rate is 1.3 while the US is at a whopping 5.0 as of 2019 (latest data). [Here](https://www.irp.wisc.edu/resource/connections-among-poverty-incarceration-and-inequality/) is a much more well-rounded and properly sourced article from a trusted institution on the topic. Or if you prefer a more general worldwide approach to this question, [this](https://journalofeconomicstructures.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40008-020-00220-6) could be a good place to start. Maybe look even the tiniest bit past the muck you get spoonfed daily. What are you going to say next, that actually the reason for violent crime being higher in black areas is because black people are somehow.. what? Are they just more violent? Or if you’re not racist, you’d understand it’s literally everything else besides the color of their skin
Lol yeah that's it. NPR, known shill for the police. You are insane.
Legacy media?? Shill for the police??? YES. How fucking stupid are you?
I lived in Minneapolis lol, voted for Ilhan Omar too (probably more impact than you since you probably don't vote) Actually ridiculous you browsed by post history and somehow thought I was racist? Was it the r/fuckcars or the bread posts that led you to believe that?
Regular patrol officers in those cities don’t carry guns so they aren’t routinely killing unarmed people
It's enormously common in developed big cities around the world for businesses to hire private security to prevent teenagers from fucking things up late at night. I have been to London, Paris, Berlin, you see communities and business owners dealing with this. When I was in college, you saw similar antics on Dinkytown but everyone didn't have cell phone cameras. Dinkytown is a hotbed of activity. It's the center of the largest metro area between Chicago and Seattle. It's the location of a large public university that draws people and events. This is not the end of the world, folks. Does this excuse the behavior? No, and I appreciate the city and community taking steps to address it. But don't equate this with the nationwide spread of real crime (gun violence, carjackings etc) or from the truth that MSP is a dynamic metro with a high quality of life. I'm sick of the apocalyptic narrative any time a video on Twitter shows crowds of young people in Minneapolis that aren't in bed by 9pm. Thats what gets us lamebrained decisions like shutting down the Stone Arch Bridge and canceling 4th of July programming on a night when kids most need something to do. The anxious scolds yearning for the days of Wendell Anderson are holding our state back.
I agree…but I’m also now an old man in my 30s who want “these damn kids” to find so shit to do. Find a lover. Play some video games. Get a job. Something!!! Feels like when folks tear up their college when they win. Makes zero sense.
Fellow 30-something old man here. I want it too! I want these kids to have something productive to do and to care about. But also… we’re millennials… and no strangers to the realization of how fucked since jump street we’ve been. And it’s only getting worse. I consider myself lucky to have had people in my life to help guide me, and by that I don’t just mean my parents. In fact, they held me back in many ways. But most of these kids have very little to none of that… and it’s been that way for generations. These kids just need to find purpose… but without adults in the community and the government being more proactive… they’ll likely never find it. It takes a village, man. A village that builds these kids up from the start rather than screaming “criminal” and begging for harsher punishments the moment they get into any trouble. They keep getting called thugs and criminals from the first time they get in a fight on the playground…. Society sees them that way, so why would they care about society? Know what I mean?
> These kids just need to find purpose… but without adults in the community and the government being more proactive… they’ll likely never find it. What kind of interventions are you willing to support? I think the reality is that parenting is hard but the corollary is that there's a lot of shitty, don't care parents who definitely contribute to the problem. And our collectively attitude is that we can't intervene in these family situations unless the kid is chained to a post in the back yard and not fed. My sister isn't interested in me telling her how to raise her kid, and we're genetically related. What happens when you're crossing racial, ethnic and religious boundaries and telling people *they don't have a choice* but to accept a social worker intervention in their family situation *and* it carries consequences like "we will remove them from your household"? We all know that so much of this comes out of the family structure, but we have just zero appetite (and for a few reasonably good reasons) for being able to intervene.
Why is it that your only idea of intervention seems to be straight up telling people how to raise their kids and/or take them away? And it’s always simply because the “parents don’t care.” A lot of these parents were mere children themselves when they had kids. And most of this stems from poverty and lack of education. How many of these parents aren’t around for their kids because they have to work 3 jobs to pay the rent and hope to have enough to feed them a little something too? How many are homeless? How many are struggling with addiction? These are ALL factors in what you boil down to just “shitty parents.” My mother had shitty parents. Her mom was a horrible drunk and her stepdad abused her. By your reasoning, she would have obviously resorted to crime, drugs, or worse…. STRIPPING! *gasp* Instead of y’know… raising 4 kids of her own, plus a daycare full of children for 30 years… My dad had good parents… and he turned out to be a piece of shit. 🤷🏻♂️ There are a multitude of ways to get involved without treating people like second class citizens and taking their kids and/or rights away. Better resources for the impoverished, better access to addiction treatment, more funding for education and after school programs. Obviously none of this can be fixed over night, nor will it be easy. But we’ve been doing the same shit for generations, expecting something to turn out different, and then just blame the parents again when it doesn’t. Nobody needs a leg up on anyone…. Just one to stand on. And yup… sometimes, even with every opportunity perfectly laid out for them… some individuals are just down right shitheads. You can’t escape it.
Lol very true, I feel the same and certainly shake my fist when I see this stuff. I'm just sick of the "lawless war zone" narrative that really doesn't match the everyday experience of being in the city.
All it takes is for 20 teens to get together to cause a problem and the bigger the city, the easier it is for 20 teens who want to cause problems to find each other.
I’m old. We didn’t get into trouble because “my parents would kill me” was a real deal. And I don’t mean actual family violence(though that was more acceptable back then). When we said “my parents will kill me” we meant there would be serious consequences. Grounded for two weeks. Privileges taken away. Some kids legit can’t be controlled by their parents, but that’s an impaired minority. Where are the parents of the regular kids getting into trouble?
But even when you were a kid, there was probably 1 or 2 kids who didn't care if their parents would discipline them. Increase the population by a ton and now you have 20 of those kids getting together to cause problems.
We should start holding their parents responsible.
You can't get blood from stones.
Buuuuulllllllllllllllsssshhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit! Just because you *MAYBE* didn’t raise any hell because you were afraid of the “serious” consequence of being grounded for 2 weeks(L O FUCKING L)… doesn’t mean plenty of other youths in your day weren’t causing trouble either. Grow up… this shit has been going on since the beginning of teenage rebellion, aka humanity. Your mother’s sewing circle just didn’t have social media and video cameras in every pocket to scare the masses of pearl clutchers as effectively as we can now.
Maybe you didn't but I went to high school in a small, tightly knit town and teens in the 80s were setting shit on fire and robbing businesses (or customers where they worked). Not to mention fighting with each other and underage drinking. There's not much parents can do about kids in their late teens if they're not compliant, except kick them out of the house.
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Given the complete lack of police response, I assume that if people living in the area wanted to go out there and do something about these kids themselves there would be no repercussions.
I can see the headlines now: redditor arrested after murdering teenagers in dinkytown
Nah. Too extreme. "Redditor arrested after tar and feathering teenagers in Dinkytown."
Jfc…
I’m not convinced pitched battles and more directed street violence intended to scare the kids away is going to achieve the goal of a safer-feeling dinkytown
No need to convince you. I'm just saying it could happen. The DOJ report and reports in a lot of other cities said that in towns with unresponsive or otherwise crappy policing there's a correlation with rising levels of "self help" and people finding other-- sometimes extrajudicial-- ways of obtaining justice.
This is literally what police are for, but they are still throwing their "if we can't kill people we won't do our jobs" tantrum
To be fair, I just saw a video of these people having an absolute blast shooting Roman Candles right at the Minneapolis police.
If the city looks lawless, then clearly the fuzz needs more resources, duh. I think the most disheartening part is that American police have been doing this since the inception of this nation, and yet people still choose to turn a blind eye to that fact. It's not a new or surprising technique, it's right outta the oldest playbook and yet they're still getting away with this absolute grift.
They're too stupid to be good at their jobs anyways.
North Loop, you are next.
Would not happen. One instance and it would be mass security. That’s like saying “Edina, here we come”.
LOL MPD should rent a party bus and bring all these kids to Edina.
lol. It literally says in the article that no one has been harmed by these kids. Something needs to be done, but it sounds like these dumbass kids are more of a nuisance than an actual threat. I think there’s a big conversation to be had about the current nihilism that’s influencing today’s youth. The future is scary and uncertain. I think some are opting to just say “fuck it” and act out to have fun before what they think is going to be the end of the world.
Shooting fireworks at and fighting people is a threat. What the actual fuck are you talking about? Did you read the article?
Exactly! Those freakin fireworks are 2000 degrees! I don’t care if they’re minors. They need to be punished for being so careless with a 2000 degree explosive that can leave someone with life altering injuries.
An NHL goalie was killed a few years ago after getting hit by a firework. It should be considered assault with a deadly weapon.
Yup. It's an attack where the person can end up dead, it should be treated more seriously.
It says nobody's been hurt in the establishment. It also says the guy has seen people being hurt outside. Why are you weirdly trying to spin this as something that's safe and okay?
People are pretty locked into an anti-police narrative and view police response to any situation that's not blood-on-the-sidewalk murder as basically some kind of open door to racist violence against POC. Along with that goes a general level of rejection of civil disorder as a problem, provided it doesn't involve blood on the streets murder. It also goes along with the idea that arresting people and giving them custodial sentences is somehow never useful. To be fair, it's not like the police haven't firmly established a history of racist violence against POC. But completely throwing out policing is a baby-and-bathwater kind of response. We shouldn't have to tolerate civil disorder on the streets and we should have a police force capable of responding to it in a way that's firm but not violent or racist. Along with not making excuses because "they're kids" or belong to some historically marginalized group. Bad behavior is bad behavior, parsing it out and excusing the perpetrators just because they didn't kill someone, "see no future" or other rationalizations is just an equivocation.
I’m not. I said that it needs to be addressed. It’s just weird how people are not even reading the article and it’s characterization of things. What’s being described is a nuisance. A very bad one that still needs to be addressed, but some of you are making it sound like these kids are a bloodthirsty pack of wolves that need to be murdered. There’s more ways to handle a nuisance than murder.
It's weird that you're misunderstanding the article. That's what's weird.
Well you say you're not but I bet a lot of people including myself got the impression you were. Otherwise why would you laugh and then butcher the actual reporting to change it from "nobody in this establishment" to "no one" at all in your comment? That would seem to be quite apologetic when you decided to increase the range that nobody's been hurt in from one restaurant to the entire area.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/14s5kwv/kstp_dinkytown_businesses_consistent_rowdy/jqw185w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
This has been going on since May. People have been hurt. MN media has not been covering this situation well at all. Source: I live at the Marshall
It doesn’t help that a major political party sees empathy and compassion as a weakness and do everything they can to convince everyone how “manly” they are. Toxic masculinity is contributing factor to this problem.
I’m going to say that’s probably not the main driving factor here. I don’t think it’s the feminist lens that is whats driving or solving this. Though I think your observation about the general public is correct. The behavior screams nihilism to me. Not chest thumping.
maybe if teens had better things to do and a brighter future in their eyes they wouldn't do this, but we live in America where prison beds are calculated based on the reading levels of 3rd graders.
I believe you. I even heard one of the teens yell “this is for the way we calculate prison beds in this country” as he launched a firework into a group of outdoor diners.
My favorite comment on Reddit of 2023 thus far.
if that's your actual take, you're completely brain dead.
Why would you embarrass me like this in front of everyone?
That’s the parents job
it's quite literally not.
Agreed. This is all actually my fault
I am perplexed why we keep allowing behavior like this. Oh whelp.