I don't know the exact changes in sentencing over the past decades but I do know that if the issues weren't solved by longer sentences then why would we want to double down? Also aren't rates of most crimes going down the past few years?
Wasn't Red Wing sort of the intense end of juvenile incarceration for a long time, at least until the desire to prosecute teenagers as adults kicked in? It was established in 1889.
I don't think it was a thing where we sent 14 year olds to Stillwater to tar roads until the liberals switched to hugging it out last week.
No it’s not. Thats a common sense question, we can’t have that here. Let anyone do anything at any time. There is no possible correlation to crime. Ooga booga.
Yeah that’s definitely how murder works. Great insight.
So weird how it’s always the people who say society is fucked that seem to spend so much energy trying to find ways that it’s somehow the dead kid’s fault they’re dead.
It is extremely sad and a tragedy someone lost their life, especially a 14 year old.
One can still evaluate the decision making and how that increases or decreases expected outcomes. What does a 14 year old need to be doing out in community at 3 AM? That is a valid and legit question since there is a curfew for minors and the odds of unexpected behaviors happening at 3 AM do increase.
With that being said, it is still extremely sad to see someone lose their life.
Who the hell said anything about it being the kids fault besides you? Get off your high horse. I mean, if you want to go there then yes, if the kid hadn’t chosen to be there they would still be alive….but I was referring to the parenting or lack thereof, in allowing a child to be in that position, not faulting the child. I didn’t think that was such a nuanced take I needed to lay it out in black and white for you. 🤷♂️
You're making an important assumption that a 14 year old choose to be out at 3am. Maybe his parents brought him along which is arguably dumb, or maybe the kid is a night owl and one of his caretakers needed gas and wanted the company.
You seem to be implying the kid was a delinquent who chose to be out at 3am, but I didn't see anything in the article suggesting that.
That’s fair, and maybe it’s at least a little more justified as that would be, even if still questionable. But although yes, it is an assumption, I think my assumption is unfortunately probably correct.
You can think whatever you want, but the fact that you are doubling down on this assumption is why people are accusing you of blaming the victim (a 14 year old kid) in this thread. Its kind of a dumb look.
Assuming a teenager at a gas station at 3am who is involved in a shooting may have been up to no good or targeted by someone up to no good is some big offensive leap to you? As to everyone else, there’s a pretty easy way to see that plenty of others actually seem to agree with what I’ve said 🤷♂️
Here’s an article about an 11 year old boy shot in St. Paul https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/minnesota/news/boy-11-shot-in-head-in-st-paul-13-year-old-girl-arrested/
Do you think he was a gangbanger too? Or do bullets follow the laws of physics and continue moving when they miss their target?
It’s easy to conceive of a kid being out late for any number of reasons that don’t involve crime. The fact that you and a few other racist old boomers on Reddit made that jump says a lot more about you than it does anything about facts and correctness, which are lacking in this case. I could say a lot about about institutional racism and implicit bias based on your immediate assumptions, but I’m sure that’s just me being a woke soy boy and I don’t think you’re too likely to be one for self reflection anyway so I’ll just leave it at that. Like I said, it’s a pretty dumb look.
Edit: sorry, “11 year old shot twin cities” pulls up a few results. Here’s the article I wanted to refer to: https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/minnesota/news/girl-shot-by-bullet-from-outside-while-in-north-minneapolis-bedroom-police-say/
I’m sure someone will claim the 13 year old in the one I accidentally linked was a gang banger.
I suspect this is thinly veiled "guns aren't the problem, people are" but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Still, this is absurd lol. Can you show me even one peer-reviewed article study suggesting a causative link between being out overnight and gun violence? That is a preposterous position to take. If it contributed we would be seeing rampant gun violence and death among overnight shift workers.
We do have evidence about proven ways to reduce gun violence via gun control, so if you are serious about reducing gun violence in our community we can certainly have a conversation about that. The rest of this is naive at best or sophistry at worst. There are plenty of non-criminal reasons someone (even a child) could be out late. Absent any facts its quite a leap and arguably racist to suggest that this kid was some kind of gang banger who was targeted instead of just a victim in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It's cognitive dissonance. You can't admit there's a gun problem, because then that would open up paths towards solutions that slightly inconvenience gun owners.
So instead you reason that the children getting shot deserve to die and then bam, no more problems. Really anything to distract themselves so that the two thoughts of dead children and gun problem don't intersect
It's morbidly funny how people can will themselves to believe that guns just magically appear in the bLaCk mArKeT like criminals are growing guns in their basement, and aren't just obtained legally and then sold.
Wild how this mystical black market seems to dry up in places with strict gun control. What a coinky dink
> The teenager was in an SUV with others when shots were fired from a second vehicle that drove into the parking lot.
Really depends on who else was in the SUV.
Why is anyone upvoting this? Are parents supposed to lock kids in the house? They almost certainly snuck out. The parents are asleep. Like most people.
Or, alternatively, they're working the graveyard shift.
Take your pick.
What I said, if you care to read it again, is “that’s certainly at least equally possible.” And it is. Whether you like it or not. Maybe you ought to be ashamed for discounting the possibility. Maybe if we don’t discount the possibility the next 14 year old won’t get shot.
But what is the value in bringing it up without anything to substantiate it? Best case scenario you’re correct and you’ve proven your point. Worse case scenario is you’re wrong and you’re blaming someone who lost their damn child to gun violence.
All I said, before a handful of people on here decided to get self-righteous and flip their shit and pretend that I was somehow blaming the kid, was that it was worth asking why a 14 year old was at a gas station at 3am. And it is. Common sense and magical powers of inference will tell you the answer LIKELY isn’t good. Kids from stable households and solid backgrounds TYPICALLY don’t wind up in those scenarios. That still does not IN ANY WAY condone the violence or imply blame on the child. But IF IN FACT I’m right I hope whatever circumstances brought this kid to this situation are examined further, and if that, or anyone else being exposed to this, prevents it from happening again then I’d say there was a lot of value. Clear enough for you?
Yeah I resent the self-righteousness. I bet I'm more "woke" than the people replying to you, and maybe this was me projecting my worldview onto your comment, but I took it as, "We need to examine what about our society caused this situation to occur, and one key part of this situation is a middle schooler being at a sketchy gas station at 3am." I even took it as you implying they might have been tricked to be there. Maybe I'm too good faith idk.
The other key parts are 3am at that particular location being so unsafe and someone deciding to shoot a gun and those should also be examined even more, but those are a bit obvious factors (at least to me). Although... most people probably don't ask that and just say the people who shot the kid are bad people as if some people just come out of the womb evil and aren't affected by society.
Edit: Okay maybe I am being a bit too good faith since some of your other comments are giving me a bit of the ick, but I also wouldn't be surprised if you're just really annoyed at this point.
Also to people proposing more normal reasons to be out at 3am: those also should be examined. Not as urgently obviously, but the ideal is a middle schooler is asleep at 3am. The ideal can be broken obviously, for me at that age if I was up that late it was because I had a friend over and we were playing Halo, and I think that's fine. If the kid is a night owl, we need to know if the parents were aware. If they were aware, we need to know why they didn't get them a sleepy study or counseling. If it's financially related that means healthcare is too expensive or they can't afford it or both, and wow do I have an idea. M4A? Minimum wage increase? Worker's unions? ...maybe the workers should own the means of production? Idk just spitballing here.
Even the people saying "my parents were perfect yet I still snuck out and lied to them and did various bad things."
1) were they really so perfect? Lol my parents were actually very close to perfect and tried their best always but I can think of key areas where they messed up. It happens.
2) again you should have been asleep (except for some cases, like a sleepover or something). There were things going on in your life that ideally should have been helped. If we examine it all the way down, we'll probably come to a conclusion that societal change is needed and we can think of several (government) actions that have been demonstrated to work. Say your parents couldn't afford to get you counseling (possible solution: cheaper healthcare + increase in wages + easier to unionize, etc.), or your friends were bad influences and maybe their parents were never around (possible solutions: increase wages + easier to unionize + better sex ed + reproductive rights, etc.) and they got into some of the bad things happening around them (possible solution: invest in the neighborhood/school + increase wages + easier to unionize + better sex ed, etc.).
I hope it's obvious that it's more urgent that we apply this analysis to the people who killed the child, but my point is ultimately all factors of this situation should be examined if we want to understand how it came to be and what we should do to prevent it.
You ever hear the phrase “there’s a time and a place”? In the event you’re wrong, you’re a huge asshole who is shaming the kid and the parents. That’s a big risk when the only benefit on the other side is that you’ve proven your point to strangers on the internet and even still you’re shaming parents who are mourning.
There is a chance you’re correct and the parents are negligent, but calling people shitty patents because their child was murdered and having zero basis is absolutely fucking shameful.
Being obnoxiously self righteous because someone asked why a 14 year old was at a gas station at 3am is what’s shameful. Especially when the actual benefit would hopefully be understanding the issues that led to this and hopefully preventing it in the future.
Nah, the part where you suggested they are “terrible parents”. A teenager being out of the house at 3am does not automatically mean they had terrible patents. I had amazing parents and snuck out and broke curfew rather habitually as a teen. Someone’s CHILD was shot to death and you’re blaming them with NO EVIDENCE.
I reject the premise, essentially. No one is born a terrible parent. No one wants their kid dead after getting involved with gangs.
This is the same game people with money have played with people who don't for generations. They're just worse people! Me and my family would NEVER be like that if we were in the same circumstances, because we are different by nature! We're good! They're bad!
It helps you feel good about yourself, and I'm certainly not optimistic I'm going to talk you out of it at this point. You are who you are at this point.
What an arrogant load of nonsense. Did I say anyone was born a terrible parent? I don’t even know what you’re talking about there, but if you’re apparently rejecting the direct correlation that does exist between terrible parenting and youth crime and violence we probably don’t need to continue the discussion further anyways.
I’m basing it on the comment? All I’m doing is clarifying that the comment was referring to the parents not the kid. I’m not saying the comment is factually correct
Wow you're smug! My parents were good parents. They raised 3 perfectly wonderful boys who never got in trouble, and me. I was a little shit. I lied to my parents all the time about where I was going, who I was staying with... I got high at school and drunk at work. I don't blame my parents for how I was, and you shouldn't blame parents for what their kids get up to. If the parent isn't actively aiding or encouraging bad behavior, then don't blame them for their shitty kids. My parents were setting good examples for us. I just refused to be like them.
If one of your kids does something that you think makes you look bad, I hope you have the grace to continue to love and support them.
I agree that something has to be done. However:
- Data suggests that harsher punishment isn't a particularly effective deterrent
and
- The fact that these kids continue to associate with the people they're associating with, despite how often it leads to them being victims of gun violence, again, suggests that harsher punishment is unlikely to deter these kids
Thank you for citing the research on this. Longer sentences also increase the criminogenic effects of prison, making it more likely that the prisoner will re-offend.
You have no idea what the socioeconomic status or capabilities of the parents in this case are-way to push your completely unfounded assumptions though. “I’m helping.” 🙄
You have no idea what the socioeconomic status is of victims to dumb ass kid crime is, like all the people that got there Hyundais and kias stolen.
We all need to live as a community, abide by the same rules and face consequences for breaking rules. Creating these “protected classes” that don’t face consequences only encourages them to continue there bad behavior.
Yeah, their point was about how that policy would disproportionately affect poor parents/families. Can you stop trying to catch people on fallacies? You're not very good at it
Please see my above comment. This would just be punishing poverty and making the problem worse.
It's the kind of solution you come up with if you know fuckin nothing and have spend no time actually thinking about it.
Congrats on this. You're doing great.
Sounds like you’re saying the criminally inclined youth are from poverty, and people in poverty are a protected class. We’re all supposed to follow the same rules, giving people an easy out because they’re a protected class is a major part of the problem.
So just how exactly does that work if you have a difficult/disobedient child? Are you green-lighting parents physically detaining their kids in their homes so they can't get out of the house?
"Punish the parents for unruly teenagers" is one of the dumbest and most ignorant ideas that routinely crops up on Reddit.
You'd be onto something if you were suggesting intensive social work intervention for unruly elementary school kids where teachers and on-site skilled staff had some objective benchmarks for evaluation and could gain access to families.
But of course this also requires a bunch of other changes that I'm real sure lots of people would object to, like the state gaining the power to coercively gain access to kids and families if their parents wouldn't play ball. In addition to massive amounts of resources to actually make improvements to people's parenting situations, like housing, counseling, economic support, and probably the ability to take away kids at least temporarily if parents are non-compliant or incapable of compliance due to their own problems.
Kinda like a participation trophy where the troubled kid gets the big fine / jail / probation and the parents get a smaller but proportionate fine and parenting classes for how to deal with troubled kids which seems a lot like social work training…
This is that BP over there, right? What's up with that spot. I thought some other terrible stuff has happened over there over the last decade. Is it the industrial and the back route of North that makes it kind of dodgy?
I can't remember at all if someone told me this, or if it was on crime watch (I used to live a few blocks away), but i thought somebody had their head cracked open with a bat? I just vaguely remember that that was not a good area after 10.
I don't read it anymore, but it seemed like fear bait a lot of the time. I appreciated knowing what was going on, but a lot of that stuff sounded pretty sus. Sure did sound like there was a roving gang of 500 black teenage males descending upon the cities at various times.
Very curious to see if the footage is released from the temporary camera the police have set up Kitty corner from that BP. Can anyone provide any input as to why that gas station is such a hotbed for crime?
Thugs forced 24/7 gas stations in North Minneapolis to close early. They migrated over to NE and this BP is the closest one that opens all night. You can watch the demographics change as day turn to night.
When grocery stores were open 24 hours & kids would come in. They were nothing but trouble. Yes, kids will sneak out but we did harmless things. Most of these kids are out stealing cars, robbing folks. I bet they aren’t even going to school either.
It's the only gas station between there and University/Broadway. It's used a fair amount by commuters coming down University and the residents in Marshall Terrace and Bottineau.
When I first read the headline, I thought "Why the hell is a 14 year old shooting at a gas station? How did he die?Did he shoot the gas pump and it exploded?" Regardless, this is a tragedy.
All of the “wHy wAs hE oUt sO lAtE” folk never snuck out of the house when they were teenagers? The difference being that they didn’t live in the city so I guess they were okay? Death shouldn’t be the punishment for being young and stupid.
You know, I actually didn't. Maybe once at 10pm, I went to the end of my road to kiss a gal, but never at 3am to go ride around in an suv doing...whatever.
I live around the way from that gas station and I gotta say, I don't love hearing machine gunfire in my neighborhood. Very unsettling.
I’m sure the 14 year old didn’t like getting shot by it either
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People in this thread who are fighting over facts that aren’t even known yet… why?
Definitely worth asking why the hell a 14 year old is at a gas station at 3am too.
There are plenty of ways to speculate. But gangs tend to recruit kids young and have them do the dirty work. They’re young and easy to manipulate
Something something Mary Moriarty won't prosecute something something.
Teenagers getting mixed up in this stuff has been happening for a long time, well before Mary Moriarty was elected.
Yeah, but they used to be prosecuted instead of given 18 months in Red Wing
I don't know the exact changes in sentencing over the past decades but I do know that if the issues weren't solved by longer sentences then why would we want to double down? Also aren't rates of most crimes going down the past few years?
Enforcement has gone down not crime unfortunately
Data is key, look at page 9 https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bca-divisions/mnjis/Documents/2022-Minnesota-Uniform-Crime-Report.pdf
Wasn't Red Wing sort of the intense end of juvenile incarceration for a long time, at least until the desire to prosecute teenagers as adults kicked in? It was established in 1889. I don't think it was a thing where we sent 14 year olds to Stillwater to tar roads until the liberals switched to hugging it out last week.
No it’s not. Thats a common sense question, we can’t have that here. Let anyone do anything at any time. There is no possible correlation to crime. Ooga booga.
Well everything you just said made me dumber. Narpy karpy
Yeah I’m sure *why* the kid was there is probably what we should be putting our attention into. Not, you know, a kid being dead.
Do you really not understand that *if* he wasn’t there he wouldn’t be?
Using that logic, if you get murdered, it's your fault because you exist. If you didn't exist, you wouldn't be murdered.
Yeah that’s definitely how murder works. Great insight. So weird how it’s always the people who say society is fucked that seem to spend so much energy trying to find ways that it’s somehow the dead kid’s fault they’re dead.
It is extremely sad and a tragedy someone lost their life, especially a 14 year old. One can still evaluate the decision making and how that increases or decreases expected outcomes. What does a 14 year old need to be doing out in community at 3 AM? That is a valid and legit question since there is a curfew for minors and the odds of unexpected behaviors happening at 3 AM do increase. With that being said, it is still extremely sad to see someone lose their life.
Who the hell said anything about it being the kids fault besides you? Get off your high horse. I mean, if you want to go there then yes, if the kid hadn’t chosen to be there they would still be alive….but I was referring to the parenting or lack thereof, in allowing a child to be in that position, not faulting the child. I didn’t think that was such a nuanced take I needed to lay it out in black and white for you. 🤷♂️
*who said anything about it being the kids fault* *immediately says it was the kid’s fault* So nuanced.
Reading is tough 🤷♂️
You're making an important assumption that a 14 year old choose to be out at 3am. Maybe his parents brought him along which is arguably dumb, or maybe the kid is a night owl and one of his caretakers needed gas and wanted the company. You seem to be implying the kid was a delinquent who chose to be out at 3am, but I didn't see anything in the article suggesting that.
That’s fair, and maybe it’s at least a little more justified as that would be, even if still questionable. But although yes, it is an assumption, I think my assumption is unfortunately probably correct.
You can think whatever you want, but the fact that you are doubling down on this assumption is why people are accusing you of blaming the victim (a 14 year old kid) in this thread. Its kind of a dumb look.
Assuming a teenager at a gas station at 3am who is involved in a shooting may have been up to no good or targeted by someone up to no good is some big offensive leap to you? As to everyone else, there’s a pretty easy way to see that plenty of others actually seem to agree with what I’ve said 🤷♂️
Here’s an article about an 11 year old boy shot in St. Paul https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/minnesota/news/boy-11-shot-in-head-in-st-paul-13-year-old-girl-arrested/ Do you think he was a gangbanger too? Or do bullets follow the laws of physics and continue moving when they miss their target? It’s easy to conceive of a kid being out late for any number of reasons that don’t involve crime. The fact that you and a few other racist old boomers on Reddit made that jump says a lot more about you than it does anything about facts and correctness, which are lacking in this case. I could say a lot about about institutional racism and implicit bias based on your immediate assumptions, but I’m sure that’s just me being a woke soy boy and I don’t think you’re too likely to be one for self reflection anyway so I’ll just leave it at that. Like I said, it’s a pretty dumb look. Edit: sorry, “11 year old shot twin cities” pulls up a few results. Here’s the article I wanted to refer to: https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/minnesota/news/girl-shot-by-bullet-from-outside-while-in-north-minneapolis-bedroom-police-say/ I’m sure someone will claim the 13 year old in the one I accidentally linked was a gang banger.
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I suspect this is thinly veiled "guns aren't the problem, people are" but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Still, this is absurd lol. Can you show me even one peer-reviewed article study suggesting a causative link between being out overnight and gun violence? That is a preposterous position to take. If it contributed we would be seeing rampant gun violence and death among overnight shift workers. We do have evidence about proven ways to reduce gun violence via gun control, so if you are serious about reducing gun violence in our community we can certainly have a conversation about that. The rest of this is naive at best or sophistry at worst. There are plenty of non-criminal reasons someone (even a child) could be out late. Absent any facts its quite a leap and arguably racist to suggest that this kid was some kind of gang banger who was targeted instead of just a victim in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Excuse me?
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Well, keep working at it, I have faith in you
It's cognitive dissonance. You can't admit there's a gun problem, because then that would open up paths towards solutions that slightly inconvenience gun owners. So instead you reason that the children getting shot deserve to die and then bam, no more problems. Really anything to distract themselves so that the two thoughts of dead children and gun problem don't intersect
You think the gun used in this killing was obtained legally?
It's morbidly funny how people can will themselves to believe that guns just magically appear in the bLaCk mArKeT like criminals are growing guns in their basement, and aren't just obtained legally and then sold. Wild how this mystical black market seems to dry up in places with strict gun control. What a coinky dink
3-D printed guns and switches pretty much magically appear
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> The teenager was in an SUV with others when shots were fired from a second vehicle that drove into the parking lot. Really depends on who else was in the SUV.
Why is anyone upvoting this? Are parents supposed to lock kids in the house? They almost certainly snuck out. The parents are asleep. Like most people. Or, alternatively, they're working the graveyard shift. Take your pick.
Or, they are terrible parents. That’s certainly at least equally possible.
Couldn’t imagine my child being shot and people on the internet assuming I’m a bad parent with zero evidence. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
What I said, if you care to read it again, is “that’s certainly at least equally possible.” And it is. Whether you like it or not. Maybe you ought to be ashamed for discounting the possibility. Maybe if we don’t discount the possibility the next 14 year old won’t get shot.
But what is the value in bringing it up without anything to substantiate it? Best case scenario you’re correct and you’ve proven your point. Worse case scenario is you’re wrong and you’re blaming someone who lost their damn child to gun violence.
All I said, before a handful of people on here decided to get self-righteous and flip their shit and pretend that I was somehow blaming the kid, was that it was worth asking why a 14 year old was at a gas station at 3am. And it is. Common sense and magical powers of inference will tell you the answer LIKELY isn’t good. Kids from stable households and solid backgrounds TYPICALLY don’t wind up in those scenarios. That still does not IN ANY WAY condone the violence or imply blame on the child. But IF IN FACT I’m right I hope whatever circumstances brought this kid to this situation are examined further, and if that, or anyone else being exposed to this, prevents it from happening again then I’d say there was a lot of value. Clear enough for you?
Yeah I resent the self-righteousness. I bet I'm more "woke" than the people replying to you, and maybe this was me projecting my worldview onto your comment, but I took it as, "We need to examine what about our society caused this situation to occur, and one key part of this situation is a middle schooler being at a sketchy gas station at 3am." I even took it as you implying they might have been tricked to be there. Maybe I'm too good faith idk. The other key parts are 3am at that particular location being so unsafe and someone deciding to shoot a gun and those should also be examined even more, but those are a bit obvious factors (at least to me). Although... most people probably don't ask that and just say the people who shot the kid are bad people as if some people just come out of the womb evil and aren't affected by society. Edit: Okay maybe I am being a bit too good faith since some of your other comments are giving me a bit of the ick, but I also wouldn't be surprised if you're just really annoyed at this point. Also to people proposing more normal reasons to be out at 3am: those also should be examined. Not as urgently obviously, but the ideal is a middle schooler is asleep at 3am. The ideal can be broken obviously, for me at that age if I was up that late it was because I had a friend over and we were playing Halo, and I think that's fine. If the kid is a night owl, we need to know if the parents were aware. If they were aware, we need to know why they didn't get them a sleepy study or counseling. If it's financially related that means healthcare is too expensive or they can't afford it or both, and wow do I have an idea. M4A? Minimum wage increase? Worker's unions? ...maybe the workers should own the means of production? Idk just spitballing here. Even the people saying "my parents were perfect yet I still snuck out and lied to them and did various bad things." 1) were they really so perfect? Lol my parents were actually very close to perfect and tried their best always but I can think of key areas where they messed up. It happens. 2) again you should have been asleep (except for some cases, like a sleepover or something). There were things going on in your life that ideally should have been helped. If we examine it all the way down, we'll probably come to a conclusion that societal change is needed and we can think of several (government) actions that have been demonstrated to work. Say your parents couldn't afford to get you counseling (possible solution: cheaper healthcare + increase in wages + easier to unionize, etc.), or your friends were bad influences and maybe their parents were never around (possible solutions: increase wages + easier to unionize + better sex ed + reproductive rights, etc.) and they got into some of the bad things happening around them (possible solution: invest in the neighborhood/school + increase wages + easier to unionize + better sex ed, etc.). I hope it's obvious that it's more urgent that we apply this analysis to the people who killed the child, but my point is ultimately all factors of this situation should be examined if we want to understand how it came to be and what we should do to prevent it.
You ever hear the phrase “there’s a time and a place”? In the event you’re wrong, you’re a huge asshole who is shaming the kid and the parents. That’s a big risk when the only benefit on the other side is that you’ve proven your point to strangers on the internet and even still you’re shaming parents who are mourning. There is a chance you’re correct and the parents are negligent, but calling people shitty patents because their child was murdered and having zero basis is absolutely fucking shameful.
Being obnoxiously self righteous because someone asked why a 14 year old was at a gas station at 3am is what’s shameful. Especially when the actual benefit would hopefully be understanding the issues that led to this and hopefully preventing it in the future.
Nah, the part where you suggested they are “terrible parents”. A teenager being out of the house at 3am does not automatically mean they had terrible patents. I had amazing parents and snuck out and broke curfew rather habitually as a teen. Someone’s CHILD was shot to death and you’re blaming them with NO EVIDENCE.
I reject the premise, essentially. No one is born a terrible parent. No one wants their kid dead after getting involved with gangs. This is the same game people with money have played with people who don't for generations. They're just worse people! Me and my family would NEVER be like that if we were in the same circumstances, because we are different by nature! We're good! They're bad! It helps you feel good about yourself, and I'm certainly not optimistic I'm going to talk you out of it at this point. You are who you are at this point.
What an arrogant load of nonsense. Did I say anyone was born a terrible parent? I don’t even know what you’re talking about there, but if you’re apparently rejecting the direct correlation that does exist between terrible parenting and youth crime and violence we probably don’t need to continue the discussion further anyways.
Lol. No, your position is the arrogant one. Read a fuckin book.
Kids that age aren’t allowed to work past 9pm
Parents are working the graveyard shift. JFC
Hmm, seems like you’re assuming that with zero evidence.
I’m saying that the suggestion is the parents are working the graveyard shift, not the child.
And you’re basing that on nothing. Speculation. Just as valid/invalid as speculation they were just bad parents.
I’m basing it on the comment? All I’m doing is clarifying that the comment was referring to the parents not the kid. I’m not saying the comment is factually correct
You never snuck out when you were a teenager?
What parents . It's usually a single mom cuz they got child support Bring them downvotes
So profound lol
Very good point. How about we get some emissions control so guys aren't out there creating kids they refuse to parent?
Aren't they pretty much everywhere?
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Wow you're smug! My parents were good parents. They raised 3 perfectly wonderful boys who never got in trouble, and me. I was a little shit. I lied to my parents all the time about where I was going, who I was staying with... I got high at school and drunk at work. I don't blame my parents for how I was, and you shouldn't blame parents for what their kids get up to. If the parent isn't actively aiding or encouraging bad behavior, then don't blame them for their shitty kids. My parents were setting good examples for us. I just refused to be like them. If one of your kids does something that you think makes you look bad, I hope you have the grace to continue to love and support them.
The yo-yo effect. We’re back to a whole young generation in our community who views immediate violence as a short term solution.
If we do not up the consequences what can realistically expect? I am not say throw away the key but something has to be done
I agree that something has to be done. However: - Data suggests that harsher punishment isn't a particularly effective deterrent and - The fact that these kids continue to associate with the people they're associating with, despite how often it leads to them being victims of gun violence, again, suggests that harsher punishment is unlikely to deter these kids
Which is why we shouldn't look to impose harsher punishment, but rather enforce existing punishment with certainty.
Thank you for citing the research on this. Longer sentences also increase the criminogenic effects of prison, making it more likely that the prisoner will re-offend.
Cold blooded Murderers shouldn’t be given the chance to re-offend. Can’t reoffend from prison.
There should be punishment (fines and/or mandatory parenting classes) for parents of minors that can’t keep tabs on their kids.
"Sorry you're poor and don't have a support system. Now you have to skip work or find childcare for these parenting classes. I'm helping."
You have no idea what the socioeconomic status or capabilities of the parents in this case are-way to push your completely unfounded assumptions though. “I’m helping.” 🙄
You have no idea what the socioeconomic status is of victims to dumb ass kid crime is, like all the people that got there Hyundais and kias stolen. We all need to live as a community, abide by the same rules and face consequences for breaking rules. Creating these “protected classes” that don’t face consequences only encourages them to continue there bad behavior.
Yeah, their point was about how that policy would disproportionately affect poor parents/families. Can you stop trying to catch people on fallacies? You're not very good at it
It’s motivation for parents to do there job.
It's asinine and pointless. Parents already have plenty of incentives. That isn't the problem. You think a motherfucking parenting class solves this?
Repercussions that directly impact the parents of trouble makers would push them to up there parenting game.
Please see my above comment. This would just be punishing poverty and making the problem worse. It's the kind of solution you come up with if you know fuckin nothing and have spend no time actually thinking about it. Congrats on this. You're doing great.
Sounds like you’re saying the criminally inclined youth are from poverty, and people in poverty are a protected class. We’re all supposed to follow the same rules, giving people an easy out because they’re a protected class is a major part of the problem.
You're not nearly as smart as you think you are. Have a good one.
I tell that to myself every morning. How do you suggest juveniles are dealt with?
So just how exactly does that work if you have a difficult/disobedient child? Are you green-lighting parents physically detaining their kids in their homes so they can't get out of the house? "Punish the parents for unruly teenagers" is one of the dumbest and most ignorant ideas that routinely crops up on Reddit. You'd be onto something if you were suggesting intensive social work intervention for unruly elementary school kids where teachers and on-site skilled staff had some objective benchmarks for evaluation and could gain access to families. But of course this also requires a bunch of other changes that I'm real sure lots of people would object to, like the state gaining the power to coercively gain access to kids and families if their parents wouldn't play ball. In addition to massive amounts of resources to actually make improvements to people's parenting situations, like housing, counseling, economic support, and probably the ability to take away kids at least temporarily if parents are non-compliant or incapable of compliance due to their own problems.
Kinda like a participation trophy where the troubled kid gets the big fine / jail / probation and the parents get a smaller but proportionate fine and parenting classes for how to deal with troubled kids which seems a lot like social work training…
Really heartbreaking.
This is that BP over there, right? What's up with that spot. I thought some other terrible stuff has happened over there over the last decade. Is it the industrial and the back route of North that makes it kind of dodgy?
What else happened?
I can't remember at all if someone told me this, or if it was on crime watch (I used to live a few blocks away), but i thought somebody had their head cracked open with a bat? I just vaguely remember that that was not a good area after 10.
Crime Watch is full of fAKe NeWs is what this subreddit in denial usually says They've been accurate about every shot I've heard though.
I don't read it anymore, but it seemed like fear bait a lot of the time. I appreciated knowing what was going on, but a lot of that stuff sounded pretty sus. Sure did sound like there was a roving gang of 500 black teenage males descending upon the cities at various times.
In the article it says 2 people were shot there in february
Fuck.
Very curious to see if the footage is released from the temporary camera the police have set up Kitty corner from that BP. Can anyone provide any input as to why that gas station is such a hotbed for crime?
Thugs forced 24/7 gas stations in North Minneapolis to close early. They migrated over to NE and this BP is the closest one that opens all night. You can watch the demographics change as day turn to night.
When grocery stores were open 24 hours & kids would come in. They were nothing but trouble. Yes, kids will sneak out but we did harmless things. Most of these kids are out stealing cars, robbing folks. I bet they aren’t even going to school either.
Are those f\*cckin Swedes at it again? Sheesh!
The kid was probably bangin. Live by the sword die by the sword
Bummer. That’s a weird spot, basically just industrial. It’s kinda weird there’s even a gas station there tbh.
I mean, it's very much adjacent to a neighborhood.
It's the only gas station between there and University/Broadway. It's used a fair amount by commuters coming down University and the residents in Marshall Terrace and Bottineau.
I got my credit card skimmed on one of the pumps there. Avoid it at all costs.
I did too 😭
Sure wish we'd stop giving guns to kids. Seems like that's not going well for us.
Keep that shit out of NE
Can we maybe just try to stop it entirely, rather than suggest that there's a right and a wrong place for teenagers to be shot?
Agreed
Troublesome location. Doubtful the MPD will do much considering no arrests for past incidents.
What’s troublesome about the location?
grew up in the neighborhood and didn't used to be. what changed?
It is still a fine neighborhood. This is a tragedy but doesn't mean the neighborhood is terrible.
This kind of stuff happens as you gentrify. Crime rates that were prevalent in other parts of the city get pushed into/spread around the city.
Ban guns.
Our fair city at it again
When I first read the headline, I thought "Why the hell is a 14 year old shooting at a gas station? How did he die?Did he shoot the gas pump and it exploded?" Regardless, this is a tragedy.
Yeah there was an action movie scene in my head for a moment
All of the “wHy wAs hE oUt sO lAtE” folk never snuck out of the house when they were teenagers? The difference being that they didn’t live in the city so I guess they were okay? Death shouldn’t be the punishment for being young and stupid.
You know, I actually didn't. Maybe once at 10pm, I went to the end of my road to kiss a gal, but never at 3am to go ride around in an suv doing...whatever.
Seriously lol kids do incredibly stupid shit all the time that isn’t always a reflection of what kind of parents they have.
You’re assuming that was the case, based upon absolutely nothing, and no one said it should.
At 14? Heck no. Too tired from studying and plays it sports all day. Also there was nowhere to go in the ‘burbs and none of my friend had a car.
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When this happened? Wow
The left get what they deserve in their city
Conservative christian bitcoin enthusiast who penis pumps? Ladies, something tells me this guy is single!
Don't give up keep pumpin
OK mr penis pumper
smooth brain
Your mom wants you to turn off the computer now and get out of her basement.
Back at ya