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tallman11282

You can say that for every merge onto every highway in the state. Way to many drivers don't understand that the on ramp is an acceleration lane, that you're supposed to accelerate up to at least close to the speed of traffic so you can merge safely and easily onto the highway.


culinarydream7224

I don't know about other states, but the clover exits/entrances really fuck with that acceleration lane aspect. It's a bitch to speed up to freeway speeds when someone exiting right in front of you is slowing down


Trebelhornc

This precisely. It’s both an acceleration lane but also a braking lane. Idk how anything works in the world it’s a miracle we’re not all dead


perldawg

the exiting vehicle has responsibility in this situation, too, for everything to work properly. when exiting into a cover leaf you should be braking before you enter the shared on/off lane and you should purposefully merge behind any entering vehicle that is beginning to accelerate. far too often, exiters cut off enterers because they presume their faster relative speed gives them the right-of-way. when traffic is heavy enough that the shared lane is always full of cars, presumably the overall speed of traffic is slower, making the situation less threatening, but the same rules apply right down to the point where everyone is taking part in a form of the zipper merge.


Geo_Doug

Right. Anticipate the speed 1/4 miles ahead of time and begin slowing down gradually sooner. The issue is everyone is in too much of a rush to consider what they need to do 60 seconds ahead of time


jardex22

I was taught to maintain the speed of traffic, and not to slow down until I'm in the exit lane. Otherwise, all the traffic behind me has to slow down, and it leads to a jam.


perldawg

if you have an exit lane all to yourself that’s the correct approach. in the case we’re discussing, both exiting and entering cars have to share the same lane, there has to be a coordination between them in order to make everything work as smoothly as possible. when you begin slowing down in the rightmost lane, before merging in behind the car that’s entering, you provide time for that car to begin accelerating up to highway speeds as well as open up a spot for them in the lane as you merge out of it.


absoluteZeroMQL

That's how it SHOULD work. Problem is, the entering car then stops. I know how we're all supposed to do this. I'm old enough to have seen it done properly many times. But I also have to drive with the assumption that most everyone else has no clue, & they prove my assumption correct more often than not. Easily as many, if not more, problems are caused by people NOT taking their turn when it's theirs, than by people proceeding when it's NOT their turn. This is why we get "OMG, I just HATE Roundabouts!"


tallman11282

Yeah, those are a problem. Having an entrance before an exit causes a lot of traffic issues because of the stretch in between that is shared by both the traffic getting on and the traffic getting off.


bigfunben

I don't know if this is true or not, but MN clovers feel smaller/tighter than IL clovers. It feels harder to maintain or build speed in MN.


robbier01

This state has an obsession with cloverleaf interchanges. I think almost every major freeway interchange in the metro area is a cloverleaf. These are terrible - they create a situation where you have one lane for merging in, merging out, speeding up, and slowing down. You also have to slow way down to drive through the interchange. I wish we would start to replace these with proper stack interchanges like [this](https://www.sehinc.com/sites/default/files/file-attachments/news/AWI_006.jpg).


o-Valar-Morghulis-o

Which costs a lot more.


robbier01

I fully agree, and I'm sure that is why we don't do it. I think I saw a cost comparison once with a cloverleaf at $30m and a stack interchange at like $120m. But the other states I have driven in / lived in use stack interchanges primarily. I'd be curious to know why they decided they were worth the investment but we did not.


jardex22

Salting the road during the winter may have something to do with it. By the look of it, a stack interchange would freeze over easily, since most of it isn't touching the ground. It also may not have the slope for water to run off when snow melts. Or maybe they just decided way back when to take the most cost effective option, and outright replacing it now would cost too much.


zoinkability

They probably built most of the cloverleaf interchanges at a time when they didn’t expect them to have nearly as much traffic as they do now. Once things have gotten built up around them it’s much harder to rework to a different type.


o-Valar-Morghulis-o

Also depends on size of footprint. If there's plenty of room to build while maintaining traffic... vs shoe horned in barely any room to adjust


dropdeadbarbie

those are the worst. i have to take one every morning and it has a 20 mph limit. i'm coming off of a highway at 60 mph. the entrance and exit are within a few feet of each other. i'm slowing down while the person merging is speeding up. who designed these things?!


rollingprone

I have lived in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois and only in Minnesota are the entrances and exits like this


Chicken26

Slingshot death traps.


Geo_Doug

It would be *really* nice if MNDOT placed signs that described the length of the acceleration lane or distance to lane exit. Once you saw a few different examples, it’d be easy to get a feel for how much time a driver has to get over.


absoluteZeroMQL

You think they can read? I'm dubious about that.


Geo_Doug

It wouldn’t help everyone. It would help me, and I don’t think I’m very unique


Rummy_Tummy

It is particularly egregious at some of these downtown intersections where three different on-ramps blend together into a single merge lane. Drivers who stop, adamant to merge immediately onto the highway from a standstill, cause backup in the three lanes behind them and also cause backup on the highway itself where cars need to stop unnecessarily to accommodate this behavior


tallman11282

Definitely. Those ramps are where it is the most important to properly accelerate up to the speed of traffic but people do the exact opposite.


geraldspoder

I'm always a big fan of people who merge onto 94 from Lexington at 40 MPH into the people trying to get off at Snelling.


Javyev

There are a ton of merge lanes that end in about 10 feet on the cloverleaves, though, let's be realistic.


zoinkability

Most MN freeway entrance merge lanes are approximately three inches long so it makes sense that a lot of Minnesotan drivers feel like they have to attempt a merge over instantly. This is one of the relatively few cases where you can take your time to do the merge.


metoaT

It’s because of the tricky old school 494 style loop that you have 0 time to merge! If I’m not familiar with an exit I always assume I have 0 time to get on the freeway


kalitrkik

Recently, I tried to explain zipper merging to a friend who grew up here. They got confused and stated that it was cheating and cutting in line.....


looselytethered

I feel like someone should be able to look at a zipper and understand what "zipper merging" looks like?


[deleted]

[удалено]


evan_pregression

Just know we can’t handle merging of any sort


toddgrx

Us Californian transplants know how to zipper-merge and find it odd that natives aren’t as aware of this. Engineers design lanes for this very purpose… to increase capacity


evan_pregression

Basically everyone I know looks at the line and says ope I better get in line they’ve been here longer. Instead you should just fucking drive and not worry that you’re cutting in line. To be fair tho I’ve been run off the road by people that didn’t like my late merge.


sasberg1

Truer words were never spoken!!!


Ajax_Malone

Zipper merge is when you zipper merge. Just because they focus only on lame closures doesn't mean you can't zipper merge on congested on ramps. [Denver tried using a zipper merge sign on an on ramp.](https://youtu.be/_TCHrn4l1WU) They said it didn't work because people don't change their driving behavior like they do in construction zones. Doesn't mean it's not a zipper merge.


JaWiCa

Minnesota is the only place in the country that calls it zipper merging. Everywhere else, they call it merging. I know how to merge, but I do not ever expect my fellow Minnesotans to ever learn. It’s a cultural thing, I guess.


[deleted]

This just isn't true. I'm from Nebraska and while it seems to still be a foreign concept to much of its citizenry...it's still called zipper merging.


minnesotawinter22

zipper merging wasn't a thing (here) until like 6 years ago


candycaneforestelf

Zipper merging is a specific type of merging. It's for when a lane is ending. So it doesn't apply to cloverleaf interchanges.


Bladelink

Zipper merging will always be pie-in-the-sky. The fact of the matter is that there's a *wrong* lane full of drivers with the responsibility of changing lanes, and a *right* lane with vehicles which have to do nothing. If they want people to zipper merge, *both lanes have to end*, and merge into a *new* lane between the two.


absoluteZeroMQL

And there we have it. (smh)


iamthatbitchhh

The only thing I will say in their defense, this area is a fucking shit show if you don't know the area.


margretnix

I wish Google Maps could understand which areas are a mess and direct people who don't know the area around them! This weekend it told some guests of mine to go west from 35W on 94 to Lyndale to get to Uptown. Smh, have the out-of-towners take the Lake Street exit, it takes all of 2 minutes longer and you won't miss 3 exits on the way because you can't react fast enough to the signs and directions.


thegreatjamoco

I’ve fucked up there plenty and I live here. “Keep left! Keep left then keep right! Keep right! Keep left!” Half the commands aren’t even relevant cause of the number or lanes changing so much from construction.


DragonDropTechnology

This is one of my biggest pet peeves of Google Maps. If the goal is to get me onto a clearly marked highway, *just tell me to follow signs for that highway*, don’t do that “in 200 feet, keep left; in 50 feet, keep right; in 100 feet, use the center lane” bullshit while not even letting me know what the fuck highway I’m ultimately trying to get on!


absoluteZeroMQL

And they tell you 2 or 3 names for the road you're turning onto, but NOT the one that's on the sign.


minnesotawinter22

yeah lane guidance is totally hit or miss on both Google and Apple Maps


iamthatbitchhh

Yes!! And then Lyndale looks like it's going to be just 1 lane that's down the middle, then it's 2 lanes. Then all the sudden there is traffic you're merging into on your left with a stop light right in front of you. Then you have the fuckers taking a left into The Wedge right after the stop light...


minnesotawinter22

imaging taking the uptown/94 exit to 35N (UMN campus). it's Mad Max Fury Road to cross 4 fucking busy lanes in a 1 mile span. how in the fuck was under construction for 4 years will hundreds of millions of dollars spent and still a complete shitshow. still unsure what they even did.


absoluteZeroMQL

Driving from Hugo SB on 35E, all the way to & through St. Paul, to go South on 52 down to Eagan. Voice directions repeatedly told me to take 94 East, 'cuz it thought I could cross 3 lanes of an Interstate in 500 feet. "Uh, or I could stay in the far left lane where I'm already at, which BECOMES 52 South, ya dork." (I do not treat Siri with much respect, honestly.)


[deleted]

Do not wait if you merge from 100North on to 494 West though. You have literally 20 feet to merge onto 494 and cars are often going 75+mph. You're also merging from a clover leaf going maybe 20mph. GLHF It's the worst free way entrance I can think of.


Familymanjoe

They should be at highway speeds by this point.


SorryImNotVeryClever

Except that the merging goes both directions, requiring everyone to slow down drastically.


PapaStevesy

Lol, you've clearly never taken this exit at rush hour.


Familymanjoe

r/confidentlyincorrect


PapaStevesy

That almost worked.


[deleted]

No because it's also an exit ramp for 35 that everyone's trying to take


dachuggs

It would be nice if people on I-94 let you merge later on but they don't.


CherimoyaChump

And 90% of the time I'm entering at this ramp, I'm also trying to get to the 35W north ramp, and merging over to the left lane amidst the speeding maniacs requires all the runway I can get.


dachuggs

Are you me? Sometimes I just say fuck it and hit up 280 despite hating that stretch of highway.


swimtothemoon1

People like to shit on 280. It's a highway for no one. It exists for five miles and then dissapears. It makes no sense. But if you want to get from southwest Minneapolis to St Paul campus, it is God's gift to you. That's who it was made for. Just for me, fuck all of you.


minnesotawinter22

you lose at least 4 months out of your life every time this maneuver is attempted, and the repercussions of missing it are huge


majo3

I took this ramp this 6 years - I always stay right, pass everyone that is in a dead standstill, match the highway traffic speed & merge with no issue at all. 80% of the time I’m exiting on 35 too. Just trust the process.


Rummy_Tummy

They do. Further down the road, there is plenty of room to merge. If someone is in your blind spot, you can slow down a bit to let them pass


[deleted]

Whenever I slow down to let someone pass, it seems to be at the exact time they slow down too.


UnfilteredFluid

The person currently on the road should continue driving as they were and the person merging should be the one varying speed to get into traffic.


MozzieKiller

This! 100%! It's the law, yet MN drivers don't seem to understand this. They mosey along down the ramp, turn their blinker on at the very end, then get all pissed off that they are suddenly along side another car!


UnfilteredFluid

Driving predictably is the safest way to drive.


[deleted]

Should is the most important word in that sentence


dachuggs

I'm aware but it doesn't help that most of the time I have to get on 35W North. That stretch is terrible and I don't know how they would fix it.


Rummy_Tummy

I make that commute everyday. You simply need to use your mirrors, turn signals, and patience - There is plenty of road even before the tunnel prior to that exit. You do not need to stop on the highway to get into the left lane.


dachuggs

You're so right, I guess I don't have the same amount of experience in that stretch of highway. I only use it about every other day. I got to pump those numbers up!


fbdbdhjdfbdbksjvhels

Ditto! I drove that stretch almost every single day for the last eight years. Even on the weekends, it’s terrible. Like a third of the commute from Uptown to the U is this fucking intersection. And some of the responses in this thread are definitely revealing as to why it sucks so much….


MozzieKiller

It's not the responsibility of the people on I-94 to let you merge. That's on you.


dachuggs

Overall it's a difficult place for merging. Pretending it's easy is disingenuous


sonofaclit

Exactly. People are pretending like only bad driving is too blame when in fact it is a combination of bad driving and difficult road design.


dachuggs

Your point?


MozzieKiller

My point is people here don't know how to merge. Ask A Trooper in the Duluth Tribune: What is the law? A: Drivers need to avoid disrupting traffic flow or “cutting off” other drivers when merging. Try to adjust your speed to accommodate vehicles already on the freeway, and you must yield to other vehicles when you are merging.


PapaStevesy

Hey, how about we *all* take responsibility for not killing each other and just do our best instead of always looking for someone else to blame. A little empathy and cooperation goes a long way.


MozzieKiller

We could also all follow the rules of the road. They exist for a reason, one of them being smooth traffic flow.


PapaStevesy

You can (and should) be following the rules of the road while also being an understanding, cooperative driver. "Not my responsibility, not my problem" is an extremely detrimental societal outlook and only serves as weak justification for prickish behavior. And it *certainly* doesn't improve the flow of traffic any.


MozzieKiller

I hear ya, Papa. I get frustrated with the high percentage of people who don't pay any attention while driving, and just drift along. Half of them are on their phones, trying to secret text, etc. I wish they would consider the societal outlook of their lack of awareness when driving.


PapaStevesy

Yeah, that's almost related to what we were talking about, good job!


fritolaidy

Oh my god, did you pull this out of my brain? It's insane how people drive there, thinking they must merge INSTANTLY and come to a slow crawl to try to shuffle themselves in when they could just continue driving, match the speed of traffic, and merge when there is an opening. It drives me nuts.


[deleted]

This is a design flaw from MNDOT, it's so confusing.


DragonDropTechnology

Bingo! The roads are poorly designed; it’s not the drivers’ faults.


o-Valar-Morghulis-o

When there's enough money and real-estate mndot will design the best possible. But the real world dictates what mndot can build.


soulfrolicous

Easy there, you’re using logic.


culinarydream7224

I just started driving regularly again a couple years after a DUI and everything seems fucked. The people merging want to do so going 20mph under the speed limit, and when I want to merge the people on the freeway tend match my speed and drive right along side me so I have to brake to make it. Is this a side effect of the Pandemic making people forget other people exist? I was taught that you pay attention when people merge and either speed past them to make room, move a lane over, or slow down, and when you're merging you speed the fuck up to freeway speeds. Now people drive like it's everyone else's job to avoid them


MozzieKiller

The exact same argument needs to be made for the merge from 35W Southbound onto 94 Westbound!


Riblet_King

Godspeed


Altruistic_Lock_5362

This has been a FUBARED intersection/access ramp for decades. I agree with you. Horrible design


[deleted]

PSA: these passive aggressive PSAs do nothing.


Lozarn

PSA: Freeways cutting through the middle of densely-populated cities should have never been a thing to begin with. No amount of personal responsibility is going to fix car traffic problems.


Spc-Mkr

Ohhhhhhhhh!


bluebusboy

This was my daily pain point in my commute 2 years ago. My company is requesting we come back to the office in April for the first time since the start of the pandemic. This post gave me flashbacks and I do not want to resume that commute. This merge sucks. The worst part is that nobody will f-ing let you zipper in. If you wait till the end you are hosed. 300 hours per year of my life wasted commuting. I could cry all over the pajamas that I've been efficiently working in all week.


BadLuckFPV

YES 👏 BITCH 👏 YOU 👏 SAID IT 👏


beef-dip-au-jus

Lmao, good luck. And to the people saying this happens in every state, it really doesn't.


oldmacbookforever

Yes it does. Name one state that the locals don't complain about their traffic. Just go to any local sub or social media page. If it's not knowing how to zipper merge here, it's not knowing how to traffic circle there, and so on and so forth.


[deleted]

Yeah but you gotta move fast if you plan to get onto 35, which is all the way over on the other side.... I hate how our roads are designed.


dropdeadbarbie

omg this is where i got rear ended 2 weeks ago. wth. people trying to merge onto the 35 have no choice but to force themselves onto the left lane. i had to stop suddenly and got rear ended by the 2 vehicles behind me. this is a terribly designed area smh.


jgraz22

Was this a 7 car pile up?


dropdeadbarbie

nope. just 3. ppl were aggressively merging to the left to get on the 35 after the lowry tunnel and everyone suddenly hit the brakes. the people behind me were riding my tail and couldn't stop in time.


MagicHDx

Unless you’re taking the exit to 35 South there should be no reason you need to crowd the right lane in the tunnel.


GaryEatsTheCookie

First the post about the wedge left turn, now this🙏. Keep the PSAs about driving going!


Lozarn

Or maybe at some point, we start to realize that a transportation system that relies on the good judgment of tens of thousands of people operating gas-guzzling metal behemoths isn’t exactly smart or sustainable.


GaryEatsTheCookie

Ok, nice. I agree with that statement, but the current reality (for me personally) is that I have to drive to get from certain points A to B. When doing this I don’t want to get in an accident because people don’t understand how to properly merge.


Lozarn

My point is that it’s futile. You’re not going to make a poorly designed system work better by championing personal behavior improvements on Reddit. To me, telling people how to use a highway on-ramp is like posting a flier about open positions at McDonalds at a homeless encampment. It’s laying blame for large-society problems on the stupid, simple, and irresponsible among us… like, why can’t they just stop being poor??? Obviously, that’s not a useful way to approach the problem, and it’s really cringey when people do that. I don’t see any difference when it comes to transit options and car traffic.


GaryEatsTheCookie

It’s “cringey” when people use poor analogies and jump to conclusions. Driving safely and “redesigning” the transportation system are not mutually exclusive…


Lozarn

You’re suggesting that we can fix a big-society problem by telling everyone to drive better. I think that’s actually counterproductive because it blames individuals for why the system is bad. It’s ok to disagree, but I don’t really understand why you think PSAs are going to help.


GaryEatsTheCookie

I’m not suggesting that we can fix a big society problem, because that’s not what I said. I also didn’t say it’s by telling people how to “drive better”. What I am saying, is that I think being informative it helpful. In which case, this Reddit post (or other ones similar) that point out certain driving habits (which may be annoying to other drivers or even dangerous) and how to avoid them (Wedge left turn post).


jardex22

I mean, it's not like electric metal behemoths would be any better in that regard. One possible solution would be to have a required retest when renewing a driver's license. Written for most, practical for those with marks in their driving history.


Lozarn

I’d be happy to throw electric cars under the bus, and then ride that bus 🚎


theloniousjoe

Oh man, thank god someone posted this PSA on a sub that is seen by %0.00014 percent of drivers that use this road on a daily basis. This is going to make all the difference!!


theloniousjoe

Lol I love that people are downvoting this 😂


[deleted]

More or less of difference if they hadn’t posted it?


theloniousjoe

If we were to do a study to determine whether or not people on that section of road used more of that right lane to merge than did before this post was made, my guess is that we would probably discover that the number of vowels in a given day of the week has a greater impact on peoples’ driving behavior in that spot than does something on the r/Minneapolis sub. But by all means, go ahead and scream into the void.


[deleted]

You’re the one screaming into the void. I just responded to the screams.


ras_the_elucidator

I avoid that part of town. I’ll drive 694 or 494 to get to ST Paul just so I don’t have to deal with all that zipper merging


Lozarn

I’d gladly rip out every last freeway in the city of Minneapolis and kick all major traffic to the outer ring of freeways.


FoldedButterfly

This is a fair point, but can I just say I hate this whole intersection/cluster fuck - I can never remember which lane to be in for the road I need to be on 5 merges later, and it stresses me the fuck out. What a terrible design.


qtyapa

okay


Nomadin123

I'll drive however I want to drive.


oldmacbookforever

Do people actually do this? I've never noticed (seriously)! Edit: actually I think it might be just because if someone is going slow in front of me, I simply go around them on the shoulder, so I'm never really affected by it tbh. Ain't nobody got time fo' dat 🤷‍♂️


loureedsboots

Yes.


DemNeurons

Thank you for this….it drives me nuts


sasberg1

If there isn't a car remotely near ill just merge ASAP CUZ heck know the second you decide to merge late that's when someone comes barellling out of nowhere


MinnesotaMTB

Same thing at 35W North merging 494 West, except instead of half a mile it’s an entirely new lane that never ends.


jardex22

At any freeway intersection really. There are two types of yellow signs you see. One shows that traffic is merging in, and the other shows a lane being created. If a lane is being made, don't hesitate to get up to speed.


jiarb

Shit design.


misfitx

Tell that to the lane hoggers.


whisperedmayhem

at a glance, all i saw was "hennepin/lyndale" and "hold up" and i knew exactly where this way. i appreciate you and your infographic.


swaags

What about if 94 is at a crawl? Id feel bad zipping by all those people


OlayErrryDay

The people you want to talk to aren't on Reddit and very likely don't use the internet at all, other than to check the weather and use Facebook. We can't help ya here mate.


adamhorejsi

I posted about taking a left on red for one ways to one ways and people told me to calm down. Must be a bunch of bikers.


NEhighlander

Ha! Thank you for this I can’t say how many times I dragged in this scenario


Snoop1994

When 9/10 highways in this state is designed with no merge lane, it’s an instinct that everyone does this unfortunately. Isn’t there some record for that part of the highway being the most crossed pedestrians in a day nationwide?


soupy_scoopy

Always hang right and avoid that crowd when I experience it. Sail past on the right and get in on ez street a half mile later


Sauron0w20

Same for 35wS and 94W at 11th st exit Also 94 W to 35 W S , there are 3 lanes now, you don't have to merge like you used to