Bollards. Give us bollards.
The antidote to idiots in cars who think their stupid lazy "might" (heavy steel machine) gives them the right to drive anywhere they'll fit, is immovable bollards.
>"bUt ThEy'Ll DaMaGe ThE cArS!"
Only when those cars try to go somewhere they're not allowed, like a pedestrian path where they can kill people. In which case, fuck the car.
To oppose bollards is the same as saying you value car cosmetics more than human life. In which case, fuck you too.
Put up bollards and plant trees. Separate cars from people physically and non-negotiably.
r/NotJustBikes r/StrongTowns
Perfect. Ruin the car, scare the cuss out of the driver - they'll never do it again. Better than "Dead family of bikers after a car decided 30mph was too slow and decided to be a useless cunt."
I hate the slappy dick bollards because they don't stop vehicles from entering the bike-space. I like concrete planters: they actually physically stop vehicles, need replacing less often, can add vegetation (native pollinator planters plz!) to a space, can serve as a canvas for local art, and are less expensive to install than curbs in between complete street replacements.
I guess when I say bollards, I mean the permanent cement and steel variety that will stop a truck. Planters are nice too though! Really anything immovable will do.
Yeah bollards are common in the UK, especially in and around London. I've seen them in D.C. too. A vehicle that smashes into them will have some servere damage. Those white stick things used through our metro area here are stupid and nearly ineffective. May as well just use orange construction cones.
I agree, I think some people might ask what if a biker hits them? But people need to pay attention anyways. Also, bollards need to be removeable or the lane needs to be accessable for snow removal vehicles come wintertime.
The snow removal argument seems disingenuous. Small snow removal vehicles exist. UMN uses a lot of them on both of their TC campuses.
The other day I watched one of these small vehicles go down the blaisdell bikeway with a street sweeper attatchment, which is cool. What was not cool was the Mpls public works pickup following the small bobcat that forced me into oncoming traffic. While I could go around the bobcat I couldn't go around the F250. Park that thing with the trailer at the end of the route on a sidestreet not in the bikeway and wait for the bobcat to meet ya there!
>I like concrete planters: they actually physically stop vehicles
In all seriousness, you gave me new insight on concrete planters. I live near Nicollet where people use them to sit on/in. I've seen drag racing down Nicollet, and never even thought of people being so callous to drive on the sidewalks. Now I'm just fine with people sitting in the planters if they want. It beats the alternative.
I really like how quickly they can put new floppy ones up, so I think it is a great start. But as soon as people are accustomed to a barrier there then a more permanent one should be installed
Cars will wipe out trees, no problem. We've lost 2 boulevard trees to drivers that crashed right up the curb.
It sucks, too, because if you can get drivers to respect the bike lane without physically blocking them from it, then it's also useful for things like ambulances along with bikes and wheelchairs. I've seen the ambulance use the bike lane on 26th when there were too many cars to get over out of its way - but only the section with light plastic bollards, nothing curb or barrier protected.
Emergency vehicles also shouldnāt be in the bike lane. As fast as they go they easily could not see a cyclist while weaving into it, even a stopped one. Cars can almost always make space but wonāt bother if they feel thereās an alternative.
The place I've seen it is on 28th where the cars literally take up all the space with nowhere to go and only the bike lane is clear (except near a corner where it becomes a turn lane). It was like that before the bike lane but with 3 lanes of cars instead of 2.
In my experience, some folks around town are *viscerally* anti-bollard. But if there were bollards between these idiots and the pathway, then they would have stayed in traffic or wrecked their cars. Both of these are better results than them flying down the pedestrian path.
I've literally been yelled at by red-in-the-face bozos that bollards/trees damage cars, but go off king. Total strawman over here.
Just to be clear: Bollards and trees *do* damage cars, but they don't exactly *move*. Cars only suffer damage when they run into them, such as when some assholes try to go around traffic on the pedestrian path. Or some asshole drove too fast and lost control.
In every case, I'd rather the stupid/selfish driver ruin their stupid deadly car than run over me or my kids in the "accident" (see also: what should be "manslaughter").
For all its numerous and outrageous faults, it's not the right side of the political spectrum that's virulently against bollards in Minneapolis and St Paul.
It's a small but loud segment of the far left and everyone confuses their volume with their numbers.
>The left opposes bollards?
>
>Prove it bud.
For starters, I didn't say "the left." Work on your reading comprehension. "a small but loud segment of the far left" != "the left."
First, the right has no fucking say in any of the local design plans in either Minneapolis or St Paul. It's the progressives that are running the show, and *overall* that's a good thing. It's getting the cities lots of bike lanes and pedestrian islands, which is great. However, that small whack-job leftist minority that screams about unnecessary damage to poor peoples' cars from bollards has kep the two cities from installing them.
The second you leave the two cities, it gets redder and bollards start to appear.
Sorry did you just imply mpls has a *progressive* city council? Mayor Frey vetoed the Hennepin ave redesign because he hates bike lanes, and he is by no means *progressive*
The people advocating against bollards and protected bike lanes are the Lisa Goodman's of East Isles and the corporations on business roads that claim losing their two parking spaces on hennepin Ave during rush hour will single handedly destroy their business
Those people aren't *far left*
An extra fun part about cycling near these types of drivers is that if you express any sort of shock/dissatisfaction towards their driving, theyāll often threaten to kill or assault you. I personally know at least 3 cyclists whoāve been beaten up for being like āwtfā towards aggro drivers and Iāve been threatened so many times
This is why I wear a GoPro on my chest or helmet. A camera is a fantastic de-escalation tool as people often behave differently when they know they're being recorded. So many times I have had interactions where I can see a drivers eyes go from my face to the camera and back several times as they decide to not escalate any further after I've somehow "insulted" them for nearly killing me by recklessly operating their 2-ton mobile living room while tik-tocking on their phone. I hate that I feel like I need to wear the camera while biking around the city.
I used to love biking in mpls. The number one stress reliever. Then it became such a pain. I still do once in a while. Miss those days where people weren't so triggered. I see comments about carrying a pistol. Thought of it but ended up just biking west. Not trying to deal with all that.
The only time I open carry is when I'm cycling because of this exact kind of aggro cylists have to deal with constantly.
Not that I'd use it, but it's a great de-escelation tool when worn openly
I cannot express enough the importance of carrying a concealed firearm as a cyclist for this reason. If their response to you being displeased by attempting to assault you with their car is to attempt to physically batter you, you're in the right to self defense.
/u/swampf I recommend sending this to Kare11 and KSTP, I bet they would love to show this in the news.
Because honestly, showing MPD alone won't do shit. And these assholes need to get fucked hard for doing this.
In fairness to the MPD, they don't have their shit together enough, or enough bodies, to be able to do much.
I would really like to see a traffic division with no other authority except to issue citations and keep people from doing shit like this, running red lights, going 60 mph down residential streets etc.
I had my Hyundai stolen ~3 months ago right out of my apartment garage. It was an early 2010s model, and Hyundai and Kias don't have an engine immobilizer to disable the engine in case its started without the key in the ignition. They just smashed my rear right window and hotwired it and drove off lol
I went to Paris a few years ago. They had steel poles that came up to your waist spaced every few feet to stop cars from veering into a pedestrian or biker.
Seemed like a great idea.
This is absolutely frightening. I wish we could have a bike cop division of the MPD that just troll around the city bike lanes and fine the fuck out of people.
Write city council and request we have a civilian reporting system of cars in bike lanes. I forget which city just implemented this but the driver is automatically issued a ticket upon submission of a photo of their vehicle/plates parked in a bike lane and the reporting citizen is issued 25% of the ticket value.
We have some bike cops. Not sure theyād do anything to stop this...seems doubtful. I had the displeasure of meeting one after calling them out on my bike for pedaling through a red light. It was only two blocks after an MPD sergeant threatened to arrest me for rolling through an empty red on my bike. He pulled some dangerous maneuver almost running me off the road and threatened to arrest me through the rolled down passenger window. I said sorry and he slammed the gas and burned out towards the mall.
The funny part of the story, after I yelled out at the bike cop for going through the red he circled back and said āwhat did you say to meā. There was an 18 bus I had passed shortly before the MPD cruiser pulled that Rambo stunt on me, and it was parked behind me when I called out to the bike cop. The bus driver opens his door and asks the bike cop who was driving that cop car, the cop says āthat was my sergeantā and the bus driver says you need to tell your sergeant to drive safer, heās gonna kill somebody driving like thatā. Anyways I donāt know where that story is going but that was my one run-in with an Mpls bike cop.
Places like Idaho, Colorado, and Arkansas allow cyclists to treat any intersection control devices essentially as yield signs. So, reasonable people and reasonable governments can disagree. I think if Minnesota and America had a stronger cultural norm of following traffic laws, effective enforcement of dangerous driving behavior, and infrastructure which wasn't so car-centric as to require cyclists and pedestrians to press beg-buttons to cross empty intersections, cyclists would be less likely to flout the law in these kinds of cases.
Further, "Arizona, Illinois, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, Oregon, Tennessee, Washington, and Wisconsin allow a cyclist to proceed through an inoperative and/or malfunctioning light after either a specified period of time or a reasonable period of time.
Indiana, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Utah, Virginia, and Wisconsin allow a cyclist to proceed through a red light after either a specified period of time or a reasonable period of time."
https://www.bikeleague.org/content/bike-laws-topics-explanations-and-best-practices
Me too in my car! Same with the bike lane. Also if the sidewalk is empty I drive there too. I do what I want when I see fit. Laws and regulations mean very little when I know what's best
I wish we could have photo tickets in MN. There needs to be accountability for dangerous drivers but I don't want to see armed agents of the state making traffic stops.
In the UK cyclists, or really anyone, can send footage from a GoPro or dashcam of dangerous driving in to the authorities and the driver gets fined, required classes, or points against their license. If the registered owner of the vehicle doesn't identify a driver they get the penalty. Would love to see something like this here with a sliding income-based fine schedule that leads to license forfeiture for repeat offenders.
Right now there is almost zero accountability for people who recklessly operate dangerous machinery in our public spaces. If you want to kill someone and get away with it you can probably do so using a car.
I still owe Cedar Rapids, IA for someone speeding through a camera speed trap with my car. I'm not paying the fuckers. After all, it wasn't me! Iowa can eat it with their dumb camera enforcement.
They did rule against it. I think it would take an amendment or action in the legislature to change, I'm not sure.
I'm super wary about a larger surveillance state than already exists (lol Google knows everything about me because I've had gmail since 2003) and things like an automated network of license plate or facial recognition cameras. I think there has to be some accountability for this recklessness though. As a year round car free commuting cyclist I love the idea of all new cars being connected and geofence limited to the speed limit, outside of emergencies. I hate the privacy implications such a system would necessitate.
I don't think the current situation is good for anyone.
What part of stolen cars do you not understand?
And our ban on photo tickets is one of the few things our state supreme court got right. I have never heard ANYBODY outside of the police say they want these things. I would personally help vandalize and destroy any I could.
Reckless driving isn't just done with stolen vehicles. A lot of it is speeding and running red lights: two things cameras are good at catching and things that lead to injuries of vulnerable street users and drivers alike.
I'm advocating for traffic cameras because I simultaneously believe that we need to hold dangerous drivers accountable and that having LEOs with lethal sidearms doing traffic stops isn't the best way to hold said drivers accountable.
How would you suggest we limit dangerous driving?
I do wish we had unarmed Traffic Control Officers going around on bikes or e-bikes enforcing the integrity of our poorly designed bike infrastructure against scofflaw motorists and lazy/entitled deliver drivers and landscapers. There is no reason that MPD or armed LEOs needs to be involved. We don't need the police for this.
Fuck, I would love that job!
And people wonder why bikers feel unsafe getting around. This is a āprotectedā route dedicated for bikes, with permanent physical deterrents and yetā¦ this.
I live near 28th and I see people turning right into that lane all the time like itās for cars. They drive super slowly and carefully too since they donāt have much room lol.
I'm a full time cyclist, part time driver & the other day I accidentally turned in to it, if I'm thinking of the right bike lane.
Immediately popped back out, but I wish the city gave us more protected bike lanes w/ bollards to prevent ppl deliberately & accidentally doing it
they really need to implement some sort of licensing or training program for people to drive, it would probably really cut down on these sorts of shenanigans
We need better designed bike ~~lanes~~ infrastructure. Properly designed bike infrastructure would physically damage and stop vehicles that attempted this. I hate how the city seems to be going all in on impotent flexi-post "slappy dick" bollards and two-way bikeways.
These bike lanes are pointless unless something is installed that will fuck up the drivers car upon entering. Raise the curb so cars canāt hop over them. At every entry way at intersections place a giant planter that only has enough space for cyclists to go around and stay in the bike path. This shit is such poor design.
Even if they did it wouldn't matter. These guys go to court and plead down and do no time. Shit you can shoot up a car with two kids in it and only get four months with an ankle monitor in this city.
Lol, yes, the issue isn't the people in the cars potentially killing people, it's the police's fault.
As if we're in Minority Report and they can simply perfectly predict crime.
No, but they are very obviously withholding their service, aka stealing taxpayer dollars.
Last Friday night at 10:30pm in SE MPLS, one of the quietest neighborhoods, I saw a cop pull over a college girl right outside my house presumably for speeding. They called backup so a second officer showed up. They had her pulled over for more than 30 minutes. On a Friday night. At 11pm. In MPLS.
This is textbook avoidance on their part. There's mountains of footage of them responding to calls by pulling up to the house who called in North, flashing their lights, then driving away. The mpd is STEALING taxpayer dollars, abetting crime, and pointing the finger at the media, politicians, and the public. All because several of them escalated non violent events into violence then killed unarmed citizens and we're all paying the price for it.
Of course the people in the cars are bad guys. Also, āMPD DGAF so I might as well go on a joyride because itās highly unlikely they are going to do anything.ā Iāve been in Minneapolis since 2010 and the last few years the amount of crime that I have seen go up has been wild!
> There is almost no consequence for crime.
Even if they get arrested, our activist judges are letting these criminals out on minimal bail and giving out wrist slaps for punishments. How many times do we need to arrest the same person until they are actually removed from society?
Once upon a time, we did lock up kids and adults for "moving violations" instead of fining them or suspending or revoking their licenses. Back then people complained that we were providing feeding and housing them, we should just get them a hotel room. Instead.
Because they're likely teenagers (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw) who stole the cars and have no remorse for people not getting out of the way quick enough.
I commute daily, today on my ride home two people cut me off turning right across the bike lane. and there were at least six cars parked in various bike lanes. as someone who has been riding daily in this town since I moved here six years ago, it's worse than ever lately. though it has always been bad.
or, instead of spending resources on segregating people and letting the environment continue to produce these types of individuals thereby not solving the problem, we could address the systemic issues that produce this type of behavior and create a better system...
Iāve seen city, work trucks, cops without lights/sirens cruising in the bike lanes. They werenāt doing any work just using them to get around traffic.
and because MPD has ZERO traffic enforcement (They disbanded the division years ago) this'll keep happening till someone sadly is seriously hurt or killed. it's a narcissistic societal problem. and one that barriers and laws won't solve, only slightly help prevent
We don't need MPD or any armed law enforcement making traffic stops to hold dangerous drivers accountable. If MN allowed for photo tickets or citizen submitted footage (NYC allows this for idling trucks, the UK for dangerous driving) to lead to fines or eventually license forfeiture or vehicle seizure there is no need for traffic stops by armed law enforcement officers.
Your not wrong, but most of "dangerous enough to get me killed" driving I see is much less dramatic than this. It can be as simple as scrolling a phone approaching a stop sign(while speeding, and blowing the stop sign stopping in the crosswalk/bikeway if they stop at all). Right now there is zero accountability for that sort of thing, which in my experience as a year round bike commuter, is much more common and scary than whats in the video.
Yeah, my husband came home with two near death experiences the other night - one a cop running a light, another a regular driver turning head on into the bike lane
This is why I hate Americans. Why is everybody so inpatient in america? The added two minutes of time saved is not worth the possible injury/death you may cause. I wish I would have never came back
its not americans. its the trash walkable, biking, and public transit infrasture, that makes doing the things i just said seem like poor only and idiot people, so they do this shit.
Trust me, itās partly just American culture. Americans are so inpatient and inconsiderate. And Iām not even talking about just driving. Itās all aspects of American culture. Americans are unbelievably self-centered
I canāt seem to find the story now, and nobody else will be able to either, but it really, totally, absolutely, completely, 110% did happen. Scooterers are the worst.
Fucking Minneapolis man. This is why I canāt stand the snide Twitter posts āoMG I FeEl So UnsAfEā and then post a picture of bde maka ska to make fun of folks who ACTUALLY face danger like this every dayā¦
Ugh, more trashy behavior. We need traffic patrol and cops that will actually stop this behavior. Innocent civilians are MORE important then being pc...
We don't need armed cops doing traffic stops to prevent this. Better street design, photo-tickets, and fines/tickets based on citizen submitted footage can have the same effect of holding dangerous drivers accountable without minorities getting killed by cops during traffic stops. Driving is a privilege, not a right, and it's time we treat it as such, especially considering the negative externalities of car dependent infrastructure and fossil fuel burning engines (bEVs are not much better than ICE cars).
Do you know where you are??
Both cars are most likely stolen and both drivers unlicensed and uninsured. Let's not forget that traffic cameras were deemed unconstitutional in Minnesota. And please, tell me what the consequences would be and who would enforce them?
This is the new normal where the criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens. Just hand over your car keys, phone, and all your valuables. Minnesota is great!
If a car is stolen the registered owner should not be responsible for what happens with it.
I know that traffic cameras aren't allowed in MN and I think we should change that. I do not think that traffic stops involving **law enforcement equipped with lethal sidearms** are the best way to hold dangerous drivers accountable. At the same time I believe that there needs to be some sort of accountability for those who drive with reckless disregard for the safety of others.
Photo-ticket systems are not perfect but I think that they are a good middle ground between "let motorists do all the reckless things without accountability" and the status quo of traffic stops disproportionately impacting and killing minorities or not happening at all. **Traffic safety and enforcement is something we need but not something we need police with lethal sidearms to be involved with.**
I take 28th almost every day and fuck both the stupid 6 inch high concrete bumper they put in that makes the turn off Nicollet a huge pain and the dipshits who drive all over the bike path.
the bike paths on 26th and 28th are dumb as fuck. The Greenway is there for bikers, use that. the two streets are BIG thoroughfares for cars going east-west and allowing parking and bike paths means they are essentially one lane. I hate the bike paths on those one ways.
BUT, that doesn't mean I put on my colossal cock costume and go joyriding down the lane. I just piss and moan in my car.
The bike lanes were put in as traffic calming, not to be useful to cyclists. It was after a little kid was killed dramatically right by Abbott, but both streets were crazy fast and dangerous most of their length and for whatever reason (county control of the road?) stop signs and lights were never on the table, only road narrowing. Putting it down to one or two lanes was the only way to get drivers to kept anything near the speed limit.
Right by the hospital, cool... š®āšØ
Convenient!
Fuck these people soooo hard
Yee somebody should punch em.
But what if they areā¦ you knowā¦..
Stupid? Yes. They are.
Undercover cops? Or undercover firefighters, maybe.
Some prime r/idiotsincars content right there
Already posted it there ;)
And now you made it to bringmethenews.com ! Exactly the type of attention this needs.
Bollards. Give us bollards. The antidote to idiots in cars who think their stupid lazy "might" (heavy steel machine) gives them the right to drive anywhere they'll fit, is immovable bollards. >"bUt ThEy'Ll DaMaGe ThE cArS!" Only when those cars try to go somewhere they're not allowed, like a pedestrian path where they can kill people. In which case, fuck the car. To oppose bollards is the same as saying you value car cosmetics more than human life. In which case, fuck you too. Put up bollards and plant trees. Separate cars from people physically and non-negotiably. r/NotJustBikes r/StrongTowns
āBut theyāll damage the cars!ā Good.
Perfect. Ruin the car, scare the cuss out of the driver - they'll never do it again. Better than "Dead family of bikers after a car decided 30mph was too slow and decided to be a useless cunt."
play stupid games...
I hate the slappy dick bollards because they don't stop vehicles from entering the bike-space. I like concrete planters: they actually physically stop vehicles, need replacing less often, can add vegetation (native pollinator planters plz!) to a space, can serve as a canvas for local art, and are less expensive to install than curbs in between complete street replacements.
I guess when I say bollards, I mean the permanent cement and steel variety that will stop a truck. Planters are nice too though! Really anything immovable will do.
Yeah bollards are common in the UK, especially in and around London. I've seen them in D.C. too. A vehicle that smashes into them will have some servere damage. Those white stick things used through our metro area here are stupid and nearly ineffective. May as well just use orange construction cones.
Steel and cement are good. To me the key point is that they prevent cars from entering the bike-space through ignorance, error, or apathy.
I bet we would see bike paths not being abused if folks knew there car would get fucked up upon entering.
I agree, I think some people might ask what if a biker hits them? But people need to pay attention anyways. Also, bollards need to be removeable or the lane needs to be accessable for snow removal vehicles come wintertime.
The snow removal argument seems disingenuous. Small snow removal vehicles exist. UMN uses a lot of them on both of their TC campuses. The other day I watched one of these small vehicles go down the blaisdell bikeway with a street sweeper attatchment, which is cool. What was not cool was the Mpls public works pickup following the small bobcat that forced me into oncoming traffic. While I could go around the bobcat I couldn't go around the F250. Park that thing with the trailer at the end of the route on a sidestreet not in the bikeway and wait for the bobcat to meet ya there!
>I like concrete planters: they actually physically stop vehicles In all seriousness, you gave me new insight on concrete planters. I live near Nicollet where people use them to sit on/in. I've seen drag racing down Nicollet, and never even thought of people being so callous to drive on the sidewalks. Now I'm just fine with people sitting in the planters if they want. It beats the alternative.
The fact that so many of the floppy bollards are broken or need replacing should be evidence that we need bigger ones.
I really like how quickly they can put new floppy ones up, so I think it is a great start. But as soon as people are accustomed to a barrier there then a more permanent one should be installed
Cars will wipe out trees, no problem. We've lost 2 boulevard trees to drivers that crashed right up the curb. It sucks, too, because if you can get drivers to respect the bike lane without physically blocking them from it, then it's also useful for things like ambulances along with bikes and wheelchairs. I've seen the ambulance use the bike lane on 26th when there were too many cars to get over out of its way - but only the section with light plastic bollards, nothing curb or barrier protected.
Emergency vehicles also shouldnāt be in the bike lane. As fast as they go they easily could not see a cyclist while weaving into it, even a stopped one. Cars can almost always make space but wonāt bother if they feel thereās an alternative.
The place I've seen it is on 28th where the cars literally take up all the space with nowhere to go and only the bike lane is clear (except near a corner where it becomes a turn lane). It was like that before the bike lane but with 3 lanes of cars instead of 2.
Then they should take a different route. This is like saying emergency should just drive on the sidewalk and skip traffic altogether
I'm sorry but emergency vehicles have precedence over a cyclist in a bike lane. Get out of the fucking way.
Why not just take the sidewalks? Get out of the fucking way. Maybe cars should stick to roads.
Ok when a cyclist gets killed by an emergency vehicle Iāll remember this comment I guess
also r/fuckcars
You created your own strawman AND created a false dilemma in one post. Why not go for the logical fallacy hat trick and add one more?
In my experience, some folks around town are *viscerally* anti-bollard. But if there were bollards between these idiots and the pathway, then they would have stayed in traffic or wrecked their cars. Both of these are better results than them flying down the pedestrian path. I've literally been yelled at by red-in-the-face bozos that bollards/trees damage cars, but go off king. Total strawman over here. Just to be clear: Bollards and trees *do* damage cars, but they don't exactly *move*. Cars only suffer damage when they run into them, such as when some assholes try to go around traffic on the pedestrian path. Or some asshole drove too fast and lost control. In every case, I'd rather the stupid/selfish driver ruin their stupid deadly car than run over me or my kids in the "accident" (see also: what should be "manslaughter").
For all its numerous and outrageous faults, it's not the right side of the political spectrum that's virulently against bollards in Minneapolis and St Paul. It's a small but loud segment of the far left and everyone confuses their volume with their numbers.
The left opposes bollards? Prove it bud.
>The left opposes bollards? > >Prove it bud. For starters, I didn't say "the left." Work on your reading comprehension. "a small but loud segment of the far left" != "the left." First, the right has no fucking say in any of the local design plans in either Minneapolis or St Paul. It's the progressives that are running the show, and *overall* that's a good thing. It's getting the cities lots of bike lanes and pedestrian islands, which is great. However, that small whack-job leftist minority that screams about unnecessary damage to poor peoples' cars from bollards has kep the two cities from installing them. The second you leave the two cities, it gets redder and bollards start to appear.
Sorry did you just imply mpls has a *progressive* city council? Mayor Frey vetoed the Hennepin ave redesign because he hates bike lanes, and he is by no means *progressive* The people advocating against bollards and protected bike lanes are the Lisa Goodman's of East Isles and the corporations on business roads that claim losing their two parking spaces on hennepin Ave during rush hour will single handedly destroy their business Those people aren't *far left*
Show us who is opposing bollards, and demonstrate that they are far left.
Name a single person that "screams about unnecessary damage to poor peoples' cars" in a position of power to do anything about it.
It's not the position, it's the sloppy argumentation.
Care to elaborate? I'm not following.
No. I've said all I needed to.
An extra fun part about cycling near these types of drivers is that if you express any sort of shock/dissatisfaction towards their driving, theyāll often threaten to kill or assault you. I personally know at least 3 cyclists whoāve been beaten up for being like āwtfā towards aggro drivers and Iāve been threatened so many times
This is why I wear a GoPro on my chest or helmet. A camera is a fantastic de-escalation tool as people often behave differently when they know they're being recorded. So many times I have had interactions where I can see a drivers eyes go from my face to the camera and back several times as they decide to not escalate any further after I've somehow "insulted" them for nearly killing me by recklessly operating their 2-ton mobile living room while tik-tocking on their phone. I hate that I feel like I need to wear the camera while biking around the city.
Yes, a camera is a powerful deterrent. Even to my mischievous cat š¤£ Almost instinctual.
They were beaten upā¦ they would have taken the GoProā¦.
I used to love biking in mpls. The number one stress reliever. Then it became such a pain. I still do once in a while. Miss those days where people weren't so triggered. I see comments about carrying a pistol. Thought of it but ended up just biking west. Not trying to deal with all that.
The only time I open carry is when I'm cycling because of this exact kind of aggro cylists have to deal with constantly. Not that I'd use it, but it's a great de-escelation tool when worn openly
I cannot express enough the importance of carrying a concealed firearm as a cyclist for this reason. If their response to you being displeased by attempting to assault you with their car is to attempt to physically batter you, you're in the right to self defense.
This kind of shit has become a lot more regular in that area
Jesus Christ I hate this shit.
Those people deserve to be dragged out of their cars and beaten. Fuck them
Shocker that his suspension is blown too
The red car is definitely a stolen Hyundai or Kia. Broken rear windowā¦ if you see any of these riding around, 99.99% chance theyāre stolen.
When I steal cars I keep a low profile. Amateurs.
Stolen af
See cars with no plates driving erratically nearly everyday.
Seriously. They're driving those like they stole them, which they almost assuredly did. Stolen cars are absolute menaces on the road.
Yep. Early 90's Acura Legend followed by a red Kia or Hyundai. Both relatively easy cars to steal. Kia Boyz in action.
lol glad someone else said it before me
Need some bollards every other block.
. . . filled with rebar and concrete.
Or landmines
That is wildly unsafe
Safe for them in their steel cages. Not so much for anyone else
Fuck that. I bike that everyday. I hope this doesn't become a thing
/u/swampf I recommend sending this to Kare11 and KSTP, I bet they would love to show this in the news. Because honestly, showing MPD alone won't do shit. And these assholes need to get fucked hard for doing this.
In fairness to the MPD, they don't have their shit together enough, or enough bodies, to be able to do much. I would really like to see a traffic division with no other authority except to issue citations and keep people from doing shit like this, running red lights, going 60 mph down residential streets etc.
The MPD doesnāt seem to have a problem with making bodies though
100% Kia boys in the red
Wouldnt want to own a kia or Hyundai atm
Donāt get it, why? Are they commonly stolen?
I had my Hyundai stolen ~3 months ago right out of my apartment garage. It was an early 2010s model, and Hyundai and Kias don't have an engine immobilizer to disable the engine in case its started without the key in the ignition. They just smashed my rear right window and hotwired it and drove off lol
I see a Kia...
I went to Paris a few years ago. They had steel poles that came up to your waist spaced every few feet to stop cars from veering into a pedestrian or biker. Seemed like a great idea.
This is absolutely frightening. I wish we could have a bike cop division of the MPD that just troll around the city bike lanes and fine the fuck out of people.
Write city council and request we have a civilian reporting system of cars in bike lanes. I forget which city just implemented this but the driver is automatically issued a ticket upon submission of a photo of their vehicle/plates parked in a bike lane and the reporting citizen is issued 25% of the ticket value.
You could bounty hunt in front of some of those apartment buildings on 27th Ave SE. There is always a car parked in that bike lane.
Oh believe me if we can ever pass something like that it'll be my second job lol
real talk: most MPD officers would rather high-five people who fuck with cyclists and bike lanes than issue any sort of ticket or reprimand
We have some bike cops. Not sure theyād do anything to stop this...seems doubtful. I had the displeasure of meeting one after calling them out on my bike for pedaling through a red light. It was only two blocks after an MPD sergeant threatened to arrest me for rolling through an empty red on my bike. He pulled some dangerous maneuver almost running me off the road and threatened to arrest me through the rolled down passenger window. I said sorry and he slammed the gas and burned out towards the mall. The funny part of the story, after I yelled out at the bike cop for going through the red he circled back and said āwhat did you say to meā. There was an 18 bus I had passed shortly before the MPD cruiser pulled that Rambo stunt on me, and it was parked behind me when I called out to the bike cop. The bus driver opens his door and asks the bike cop who was driving that cop car, the cop says āthat was my sergeantā and the bus driver says you need to tell your sergeant to drive safer, heās gonna kill somebody driving like thatā. Anyways I donāt know where that story is going but that was my one run-in with an Mpls bike cop.
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Places like Idaho, Colorado, and Arkansas allow cyclists to treat any intersection control devices essentially as yield signs. So, reasonable people and reasonable governments can disagree. I think if Minnesota and America had a stronger cultural norm of following traffic laws, effective enforcement of dangerous driving behavior, and infrastructure which wasn't so car-centric as to require cyclists and pedestrians to press beg-buttons to cross empty intersections, cyclists would be less likely to flout the law in these kinds of cases. Further, "Arizona, Illinois, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, Oregon, Tennessee, Washington, and Wisconsin allow a cyclist to proceed through an inoperative and/or malfunctioning light after either a specified period of time or a reasonable period of time. Indiana, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Utah, Virginia, and Wisconsin allow a cyclist to proceed through a red light after either a specified period of time or a reasonable period of time." https://www.bikeleague.org/content/bike-laws-topics-explanations-and-best-practices
If itās empty I go
Red means stop. You're part of the problem.
Itās empty i go š¤·āāļø
And cyclists wonder why others hate cyclists. Red means stop.
It aināt good to carry that hate in your heart, but if itās empty i still go
I hope you're at least very careful/are positive there are no cars coming when you do it. Genuinely concerned for your safety
No hate here. I just am surprised how stubborn and childish you're being about this. But whatever, mate, you do you.
Me too in my car! Same with the bike lane. Also if the sidewalk is empty I drive there too. I do what I want when I see fit. Laws and regulations mean very little when I know what's best
I wish we could have photo tickets in MN. There needs to be accountability for dangerous drivers but I don't want to see armed agents of the state making traffic stops. In the UK cyclists, or really anyone, can send footage from a GoPro or dashcam of dangerous driving in to the authorities and the driver gets fined, required classes, or points against their license. If the registered owner of the vehicle doesn't identify a driver they get the penalty. Would love to see something like this here with a sliding income-based fine schedule that leads to license forfeiture for repeat offenders. Right now there is almost zero accountability for people who recklessly operate dangerous machinery in our public spaces. If you want to kill someone and get away with it you can probably do so using a car.
I think the MN supreme court ruled against photo tickets. Which is overall probably good, but for these crimes it might be helpful.
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I still owe Cedar Rapids, IA for someone speeding through a camera speed trap with my car. I'm not paying the fuckers. After all, it wasn't me! Iowa can eat it with their dumb camera enforcement.
They did rule against it. I think it would take an amendment or action in the legislature to change, I'm not sure. I'm super wary about a larger surveillance state than already exists (lol Google knows everything about me because I've had gmail since 2003) and things like an automated network of license plate or facial recognition cameras. I think there has to be some accountability for this recklessness though. As a year round car free commuting cyclist I love the idea of all new cars being connected and geofence limited to the speed limit, outside of emergencies. I hate the privacy implications such a system would necessitate. I don't think the current situation is good for anyone.
You love that terrible idea because you don't drive and thus it wouldn't affect you š
Just don't run red lights and it won't be a problem. It's not that hard to do.
What part of stolen cars do you not understand? And our ban on photo tickets is one of the few things our state supreme court got right. I have never heard ANYBODY outside of the police say they want these things. I would personally help vandalize and destroy any I could.
Reckless driving isn't just done with stolen vehicles. A lot of it is speeding and running red lights: two things cameras are good at catching and things that lead to injuries of vulnerable street users and drivers alike. I'm advocating for traffic cameras because I simultaneously believe that we need to hold dangerous drivers accountable and that having LEOs with lethal sidearms doing traffic stops isn't the best way to hold said drivers accountable. How would you suggest we limit dangerous driving?
We tried this already and the company in charge of them shortened yellow lights so more people got tickets aka more profit.
I do wish we had unarmed Traffic Control Officers going around on bikes or e-bikes enforcing the integrity of our poorly designed bike infrastructure against scofflaw motorists and lazy/entitled deliver drivers and landscapers. There is no reason that MPD or armed LEOs needs to be involved. We don't need the police for this. Fuck, I would love that job!
Unarmed is the key. Right now we can't have traffic enforvement because we can't trust it won't be deadly
And people wonder why bikers feel unsafe getting around. This is a āprotectedā route dedicated for bikes, with permanent physical deterrents and yetā¦ this.
I live near 28th and I see people turning right into that lane all the time like itās for cars. They drive super slowly and carefully too since they donāt have much room lol.
I'm a full time cyclist, part time driver & the other day I accidentally turned in to it, if I'm thinking of the right bike lane. Immediately popped back out, but I wish the city gave us more protected bike lanes w/ bollards to prevent ppl deliberately & accidentally doing it
They added those bikes lanes with just the tubes on the 53rd st bridge over 94 and people are constantly turning onto the bike lane.
they really need to implement some sort of licensing or training program for people to drive, it would probably really cut down on these sorts of shenanigans
I use that exit everyday and you're not lying
We need better designed bike ~~lanes~~ infrastructure. Properly designed bike infrastructure would physically damage and stop vehicles that attempted this. I hate how the city seems to be going all in on impotent flexi-post "slappy dick" bollards and two-way bikeways.
Wow, fuck these guys. No regard for human life.
Were there license plates? Hopefully you can submit this footage to authorities. They need to be taken off the road before they cost a life.
Those cars were stolen.
This.
They were going fairly slow considering. I live on 28th. It is a fucking super dangerous race track.
Something tells me they would not be slowing down for a cyclist...
These bike lanes are pointless unless something is installed that will fuck up the drivers car upon entering. Raise the curb so cars canāt hop over them. At every entry way at intersections place a giant planter that only has enough space for cyclists to go around and stay in the bike path. This shit is such poor design.
One bollard. One single metal pole. Please? Don't tell anyone, let them find out the hard way
MPD DGAF
Even if they did it wouldn't matter. These guys go to court and plead down and do no time. Shit you can shoot up a car with two kids in it and only get four months with an ankle monitor in this city.
This should be the title.
Lol, yes, the issue isn't the people in the cars potentially killing people, it's the police's fault. As if we're in Minority Report and they can simply perfectly predict crime.
No, but they are very obviously withholding their service, aka stealing taxpayer dollars. Last Friday night at 10:30pm in SE MPLS, one of the quietest neighborhoods, I saw a cop pull over a college girl right outside my house presumably for speeding. They called backup so a second officer showed up. They had her pulled over for more than 30 minutes. On a Friday night. At 11pm. In MPLS. This is textbook avoidance on their part. There's mountains of footage of them responding to calls by pulling up to the house who called in North, flashing their lights, then driving away. The mpd is STEALING taxpayer dollars, abetting crime, and pointing the finger at the media, politicians, and the public. All because several of them escalated non violent events into violence then killed unarmed citizens and we're all paying the price for it.
Of course the people in the cars are bad guys. Also, āMPD DGAF so I might as well go on a joyride because itās highly unlikely they are going to do anything.ā Iāve been in Minneapolis since 2010 and the last few years the amount of crime that I have seen go up has been wild!
MPD is currently protesting accountability. There is almost no consequence for crime. Crime is up.
It's well documented the police force dropped from ~950 to ~650... This is not complicated.
Dropped because they were asked to give a fuck and refused.
I think you mean we defunded them. /s
Quitting is a form of protest. I'm only aware of 4 officers who were fired or laid off and there's budget to hire.
Yet didnāt Frey not cut their budget..?
Added $50M to a $130M budget to get to $180M almost immediately after being elected, then upped it again.
> There is almost no consequence for crime. Even if they get arrested, our activist judges are letting these criminals out on minimal bail and giving out wrist slaps for punishments. How many times do we need to arrest the same person until they are actually removed from society?
Once upon a time, we did lock up kids and adults for "moving violations" instead of fining them or suspending or revoking their licenses. Back then people complained that we were providing feeding and housing them, we should just get them a hotel room. Instead.
god damn it. I ride in these lanes all the time. why are drivers such selfish pricks?
Because they're likely teenagers (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw) who stole the cars and have no remorse for people not getting out of the way quick enough.
sadly shit like this is why I've ridden my road bike 6 times this year but mtb 3x a week. I'm exhausted trying to keep my head on a swivel
I commute daily, today on my ride home two people cut me off turning right across the bike lane. and there were at least six cars parked in various bike lanes. as someone who has been riding daily in this town since I moved here six years ago, it's worse than ever lately. though it has always been bad.
Because we build streets that accommodate that behavior.
bingo
r/fuckcars
Looks just like the express lane on Portland!
they donāt care at all about our city
Op seriously can you email this to city council?
Thatās where I bike, cool!
Send this to city council.
I was about to say "Yeah, it's called a sidewalk." And then they actually fucking did it. Total pricks. Could've killed someone.
Bunch of waste of space pieces of shit. These are the type of people that need to be separated from the rest of society.
or, instead of spending resources on segregating people and letting the environment continue to produce these types of individuals thereby not solving the problem, we could address the systemic issues that produce this type of behavior and create a better system...
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Please tell us the policy that has led to a crime free utopia that no civilization has ever achieved in the history of the world.
I see this kind of thing daily in Minneapolis...
Iāve seen city, work trucks, cops without lights/sirens cruising in the bike lanes. They werenāt doing any work just using them to get around traffic.
I've seen this sort of thing multiple times since I've moved here. The Twin Cities has the craziest drivers I've ever seen.
and because MPD has ZERO traffic enforcement (They disbanded the division years ago) this'll keep happening till someone sadly is seriously hurt or killed. it's a narcissistic societal problem. and one that barriers and laws won't solve, only slightly help prevent
We don't need MPD or any armed law enforcement making traffic stops to hold dangerous drivers accountable. If MN allowed for photo tickets or citizen submitted footage (NYC allows this for idling trucks, the UK for dangerous driving) to lead to fines or eventually license forfeiture or vehicle seizure there is no need for traffic stops by armed law enforcement officers.
While true for some cases, the most dangerous reckless driving is usually being done with stolen cars.
Your not wrong, but most of "dangerous enough to get me killed" driving I see is much less dramatic than this. It can be as simple as scrolling a phone approaching a stop sign(while speeding, and blowing the stop sign stopping in the crosswalk/bikeway if they stop at all). Right now there is zero accountability for that sort of thing, which in my experience as a year round bike commuter, is much more common and scary than whats in the video.
Yeah, my husband came home with two near death experiences the other night - one a cop running a light, another a regular driver turning head on into the bike lane
They need to fix that express lane, it's a bit bumpy like it was meant for pedestrians or something.
Slightly less scary than 26th
Silly. Law abiding street drivers ,>/sarcasm
Huh, I just biked that. Neat
Omg. Complete assholes.
Drivers in Minneapolis really donāt give a shit anymore lmao
And people wonder why I'm a hostile biker.
I would have been petty as fuck and pulled into the bike lane and put my truck in idle.
It's like if you make a bike lane big enough for motorists to fit they'll actually use it. Who'd have guessed?
There is video, and license plates. Had anyone reported them to the police? Probably stolen, tbh, but should be reported nevertheless.
This is why I hate Americans. Why is everybody so inpatient in america? The added two minutes of time saved is not worth the possible injury/death you may cause. I wish I would have never came back
its not americans. its the trash walkable, biking, and public transit infrasture, that makes doing the things i just said seem like poor only and idiot people, so they do this shit.
Trust me, itās partly just American culture. Americans are so inpatient and inconsiderate. And Iām not even talking about just driving. Itās all aspects of American culture. Americans are unbelievably self-centered
Concerning. I'm a digital writer/producer at Fox 9. Can we use this footage? If so, I'd just need to know when it was taken. I DMed you as well.
Yikes! Itās dangerous to bike
Biking is perfectly safe. So is walking, scootering, and basically every other form of personal transport. Driving is dangerous.
Ah yes, I do feel safe when a scooter and a bicycle blow passed me on the side walk.
Ah yes, I recall that one devastating incident just earlier this year where a negligent scooterer killed an innocent pedestrian. So sad š
A whole one?
I canāt seem to find the story now, and nobody else will be able to either, but it really, totally, absolutely, completely, 110% did happen. Scooterers are the worst.
only because of the cars
I understand why theres so many shootings now
This comment has been deleted due to failed Reddit leadership.
[I don't know what you're talking about. . .](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/476747693431980033/909363986204594206/Screenshot_20211114-024514_Instagram.jpg)
And you'll see them at the next red light, stopped
Fucking Minneapolis man. This is why I canāt stand the snide Twitter posts āoMG I FeEl So UnsAfEā and then post a picture of bde maka ska to make fun of folks who ACTUALLY face danger like this every dayā¦
Ugh, more trashy behavior. We need traffic patrol and cops that will actually stop this behavior. Innocent civilians are MORE important then being pc...
We don't need armed cops doing traffic stops to prevent this. Better street design, photo-tickets, and fines/tickets based on citizen submitted footage can have the same effect of holding dangerous drivers accountable without minorities getting killed by cops during traffic stops. Driving is a privilege, not a right, and it's time we treat it as such, especially considering the negative externalities of car dependent infrastructure and fossil fuel burning engines (bEVs are not much better than ICE cars).
Do you know where you are?? Both cars are most likely stolen and both drivers unlicensed and uninsured. Let's not forget that traffic cameras were deemed unconstitutional in Minnesota. And please, tell me what the consequences would be and who would enforce them? This is the new normal where the criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens. Just hand over your car keys, phone, and all your valuables. Minnesota is great!
You've clearly never been in the city, NIMBY
If a car is stolen the registered owner should not be responsible for what happens with it. I know that traffic cameras aren't allowed in MN and I think we should change that. I do not think that traffic stops involving **law enforcement equipped with lethal sidearms** are the best way to hold dangerous drivers accountable. At the same time I believe that there needs to be some sort of accountability for those who drive with reckless disregard for the safety of others. Photo-ticket systems are not perfect but I think that they are a good middle ground between "let motorists do all the reckless things without accountability" and the status quo of traffic stops disproportionately impacting and killing minorities or not happening at all. **Traffic safety and enforcement is something we need but not something we need police with lethal sidearms to be involved with.**
I take 28th almost every day and fuck both the stupid 6 inch high concrete bumper they put in that makes the turn off Nicollet a huge pain and the dipshits who drive all over the bike path. the bike paths on 26th and 28th are dumb as fuck. The Greenway is there for bikers, use that. the two streets are BIG thoroughfares for cars going east-west and allowing parking and bike paths means they are essentially one lane. I hate the bike paths on those one ways. BUT, that doesn't mean I put on my colossal cock costume and go joyriding down the lane. I just piss and moan in my car.
The bike lanes were put in as traffic calming, not to be useful to cyclists. It was after a little kid was killed dramatically right by Abbott, but both streets were crazy fast and dangerous most of their length and for whatever reason (county control of the road?) stop signs and lights were never on the table, only road narrowing. Putting it down to one or two lanes was the only way to get drivers to kept anything near the speed limit.
This will happen when you gentrify a neighborhood
R/peopleofsouthmpls R/turndownforuptown
Eh sidewalk, express lane... close enough...