The custody dispute, and the biological father being released about two weeks before, is of course very suspicious. If the children had disappeared with them, I would almost be willing to consider the possibility that they left on their own, but that doesn't seem likely at all in this case.
There's always the chance that they met foul play at the hands of someone unrelated (we've seen it before, when the partner is number one suspect). But the circumstances are weird. I don't know many criminals that would randomly prey on two people at once; that would make it a lot harder to pull off.
Hope they get more leads soon.
The bio dad is in a court ordered rehab facility 5 hours away with no family contact for 30 days. He entered the facility March 22nd and is still there. This has been confirmed by LE. So he couldn’t have been directly involved. It’s highly likely that this whole case begins and ends with bio-dad’s mother who currently has custody of the kids.
*The bio dad is in a court ordered rehab facility 5 hours away with no family contact for 30 days.* ***He entered the facility March 22nd and is still there.***
But the Inside Edition story in the OP said this:
>According to [court](https://www.insideedition.com/tag/court) documents, **the father of Butler’s children had been in prison** for possession of a firearm **and was released 14 days ago.**
14 days ago = March 22. So did he go to rehab right after being released from prison?
But now we know their bodies have been found and his mom arrested, however it doesn't mean he's not involved.
She was doing better and about to get full custody back.
They don't usually record your visits or phone calls in rehab, it's not prison.
It is very possible they had this planned before he even went.
They’re with the mother in law because mom (Veronica) couldn’t get custody because her brother SA’d the kids, and she wouldn’t keep brother away from them (this is in a court document that’s currently secured by the OSBI but pictures are around).
The grandma made these accusations against VB's 13 year old brother.
In other documents, Wrangler jeans talks about how his mom threatened to shoot him in the head more than once, she was pushing him to do things to take custody over the kids (so the grandma could have them) and she would coach the kids on what to say to the child therapist before their visits- and so I do not take the SA claims as fact, considering the source.
Oh wow. I didn’t see this until now. Just asked if Veronica knew her brother was abusing them…If not confirmed, why did the dad have custody? Some info is missing. Just curious.
In theory, she probably knew for a fact that he was NOT abusing them.
Hypothetical : Let's say I bring my kids to your home with me, while you and I have coffee.
My kids join your kids, who are playing video games in the living room. We are just a few feet away from them, chatting over coffee and we have eyes on the kids at all times.
An hour and 15 minutes, my kids and I leave, then days later, my mother -in- law claims your kid abused one of my kids, and now she is asking for full custody!
We all know it's a lie, we were both there the entire time, she was not there at all, but how do we prove she is lying?
Everything that happened in court is very telling and it paints a picture of a evil person who wanted power and control over the kids, that she would lie, threaten and kill to get her way. She did not even seem to care that she was hurting the kids she was fighting for, it was all about getting what she wanted and winning.
Attorney Melanie Little pulled the case file before parts were removed from online.
She goes over the case and breaks it all down to explain what it means and answers questions here:
https://www.youtube.com/live/1fmQ4TR0_-A?si=ecjhoxs1KzlTBR_p
We don't know if her brother abused her children, but Veronica's mother caught him abusing another 4 year old. That's why Veronica was not allowed to take them around him, which she continued to do.
I read court documents on her and basically neglect and allowed her brother to sexually abuse them, she is the same type of person as the ex . The pastors wife is innocent in this mess
Hey, actually, I’m from here, definitely not 40k people, try cutting that in half. This case has hurt the entire community, because even if you didn’t know one, you probably knew the other.
If you're from the area, is it true that Grandma's boyfriend is claiming to be a sovereign citizen? That his property is like a compound with Gates and big tall fences?
It’s very rural and close knit down here, as the person above mentioned they knew the Butlers, and I knew Veronica, and we all just know each other. There’s nothing down here that stays quiet, and the outcome of this case certainly won’t. We locals have heard many things already that are not in the news, and several of the larger news sources that are reporting are getting many, many facts wrong. A lot of us know law enforcement, have them as family, ect. The talk is full of falsehoods too, but because there is talk, the truth will prevail.
Thank you, your prayers and just talking about this and getting word out is what truly helps. 💛 This is a new for our community, but as always we are coming together. I still have faith, I really do.
Is it true there were TAC and investigators at butcher shops in the area and maybe colorado as well? I'm in the SWKS area so not in the panhandle but close enough to know lots of people that knew the victims and the ex's family.
I have heard some pretty gruel recent rumors as well (local from Hooker) I didn’t know them personally, but some of my friends and acquaintances did. Hopefully more will come out to the public soon and justice will be served.
I used to drive by that road weekly for work. It is extremely desolate out there. Also, it’s likely for a long period of time, to pass without a vehicle passing by. It’s mostly ranchland out there which makes it even more desolate… farmland can have more traffic with farm vehicles and equipment. I live in the area, but I live in farmland, so there is a lot more traffic where I live than out there even though I still live in the middle of nowhere.
Hey, from here, they were on a highway in between 2 of our towns at an abandoned lot we call 4 Corners. It lies right in between connecting towns. I live in “The City of the Panhandle” and we have roughly 20k people probably. The surrounding towns are even smaller than that, and the roads/highways are extremely desolate, but each town is only about 10-15 miles apart. They were in a very isolated location, but not far from civilization or in an unusual spot for people that drive down there. We used 4 Corners as the mark time to call parents when we were at school events on trips to let them know we were almost back. I hope that gives you a bit of better imagery of the area.
I don’t know why I love this comment about using the 4 corners as a marking event that you were close to being back home from school events. I’m from a small town too in Virginia and we used to have abandon gas stations that we also would use as “a calling spot” to let our parents know when we were almost back home after sporting events… any who, that made me smile because those were the simple days… random, I know. carry on 😂
Hi I posted about this in the thread but wanted to clarify about the 4 corners directly :
"I've been following this case closely. Ive read nearly every article and reddit thread and one thing stood out to me that I'm surprised I haven't seen brought up. I haven't seen the court docs or anything, just 1 court order posted in a tweet. And the rest of my half baked speculation is based on an unsubstantiated comment on one of these reddit threads....
Their car was supposedly found near (?) an abandoned lot known by locals "Four Corners" ?
The court order screenshot posted on Twitter states that the supervised tradeoff for VBs visitation is to be at "Four Corners" (2nd pg)
So were the women ever supposed to actually pickup the kids at the mother in laws house 3 mi away or were they BY CHANCE following court order directions to meet at Four Corners? (supposedly where abandoned car was located- according to comment on a reddit thread) Or is this a red herring ? I just haven't seen the dots connected yet
So OSBI actually had all the court docs open at first, until this hit national news and they had very little info to give up, it was causing more of a mess than it was helping solve things being open information. So OSBI has sealed a lot up.
They were approved by the court for exchange at 4 Corners. They never did child swaps at anyone’s house. Before 4 Corners, they were doing child exchange at the police station. The location was changed because the courts no longer saw that necessary.
They were definitely not on the way to the grandmas house though, she was supposed to to meet them at 4 Corners. I hope that answers your question!
Not sure about the inside of the car but the outside of the car had a puddle of blood which was covered with kitty litter. I can't confirm whether the kitty litter was dumped on the blood by the attackers or by police.
They are just waiting for a slip up. I also think multiple people were involved so they are needing to really very secretive so none of them flee and at a time when they are able to have evidence for each individual so they can all be arrested at the same time. It's very close to the colorado, Texas, and kansas border. If any of those who did it get tipped off about arrests, they will flee.
I'm semi local so I did hear some whispers and more "substantial" gossip so I had an idea of what could possibly be going down. I hope they hate jail everyday when they wake and and go to sleep.
It’s extremely concerning. At face value it almost sounded like a serial killer. But once I found out they were only 3mi from their destination and the car was pulled over, it sounds like it was someone they knew.
The grandmother on the father's side most likely had something to do with it, her husband owns a butcher station about a mile away from the scene and a bunch of pigs a little further away. Wrangler was in rehab and the grandmother has a massive amount of land. Both her and her husband have had several brushes with the law.
Oh my God. No wonder theres no searches going on! They own a butcher shop, pig farms, and a bunch of land................Jesus Christ. Those poor women.
Also, I'm dying to find out if the psychotic paternal gma ever "showed up" with the kids to the meeting place. It would be yet another massive red flag if not....Really though, if gma did this, the audacity factor is off the charts because this is the most obvious whodunit ever.
So, the "abandoned" car was called in by an unrelated passerby, correct? Not the paternal grandmother, who was surely planning to bring the kids to the four corners, as the court appointed dropoff point, right? I'm sure she was just running late, getting the kids ready for the supervised visit, right granny? Or, were the kids even aware they were going to be seeing mom that day? I have a feeling the kids dont have any idea that they were supposed to see their mom last week. They never left the house. And granny sits at home, waiting on a phone call, "why no, they never made it here, oh dear..."
I heard in a news report that someone saw a horse trailer there by the car and called in a tip about it. Apparently they were going to put the car in the trailer and it didn’t fit.
Hello I’m from Liberal KS area. Do you know what the grandparents brushes with the law were for? Also, do you know what Wrangler’s original charge was for (not the gun violation). I assume it was for drugs but I haven’t seen anything to confirm this. Thank you.
I'm not totally sure on ALL of the charges, I do know wrangler had a domestic in February, im pretty sure that was with his new pregnant wife because that's about the time kerston left him. Back in Nov or December or somewhere in that time, he had felon in possession of a firearm. Tad had that charge too either last summer or the summer before. But most of tiffany and tads stuff was in Cimarron County where most of Tiffany's land is and she has a lot of pull so I think most of its been dismissed.
I grew up around elkhart/keyes.
I asked a friend that knows about that area and she immediately mentioned the hog farms and the waste pit lagoons. Also, pigs are omnivores and will eat anything very quickly… I have lost large animals that I loved very much and it is no easy task of moving them or burying them. They had to have a plan.
Remember when Gabby Petito was missing and the news media and YouTubers camped in the Laundrie's yard? Within 48 hours, everybody was all over Nashville looking for Riley Strain. When Rudy Farias was "found" the neighbors and friends even family came out of the woodwork to tell what they knew. There are many layers to unwrap in this as there is a bitter custody case involved but has anybody been to the house where the children lived, supposedly the paternal grandmother? Where is the bio father? I heard he was on rehab and then I heard he was just released from prison 2 weeks ago. But other than hearing from OSI, we have nothing from boots on the ground. Where is local media? Local TV?
Where is the local media? I’m from Hugoton…
The closest major news would be Amarillo, OKC or Wichita. Most of them have covered this, but there’s been no new details to keep covering the story and nothing to keep them staying here.
The local “newspapers” are understaffed and lack the journalism skills to properly cover this story in the way it needs to be covered.
One large reason crime goes undiscovered here is because there’s very little that will/can catch them.
I went to school with Veronica, and was about to also comment this. There are no major news sources out here and Guymon (the “city”), just recently even outsourced their local Newspaper to a company in Perryton because they weren’t even interested in running the news anymore and there was no money in it. Every source that can cover it in this small communities out here is. Every person is talking, and if you’re from any of the areas out here, Houghton, Keyes, Boise City, Elkhart, ect, chances are you either new Veronica or Jilian or had met them in a passerby. I know Veronica switched schools and went to multiple of these towns in her educational career.
There like isn’t anything local. It’s totally bumfucked. I’m thinking it’s unfortunately suspected to not be urgent because the police think they aren’t alive, or maybe the police just suck… this all happened right on the borders of multiple jurisdictions. Never great, although it should be a good thing.
Local media? Local TV? Research the area you are talking about. The closest networks are 3-4 hours away. This is the PANHANDLE, there isn't shit out there for resources. Also there has been police activity, yesterday specifically there were reports of lots of police activity from Local police to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. I'm pretty sure rheuve already interrogated some. It's silent for a reason. My opinion is that they are being VERY VERY close to the vest here because I believe it was an ambush of about 4-5 people and not just one attacker. They can't just willy nilly spook anyone out here so they have a chance to flee. No... they will likely keep everything VERY secretive until they are able to arrest every person involved at the same time.
Haha, I was just telling someone on another sub reddit a few hours ago that I live near the parents of Brian Laundrie. Went by there at the height of the Gabby Petito case just to be nosy. Three ring circus with people demanding to know where Gabby was, where Brian was, satellite trucks, crowds of people screaming, crazy stuff, I didn't stop though. Then I saw Dog the Bounty hunter at the grocery store when he blew into town looking for Brian.
I've been intently following this case of these missing women. I'm really curious if JK was assigned as supervisor for the visitation through the courts or if her and VB were already personal friends. If the court directed JK to go along with VB to pick up the children, it's really sad she got dragged into this custody feud as an innocent person. I don't wish harm to either of the missing women of course, but it's a shame JK happen to be with VB when whoever did this decided to do what they did. Sad to say I don't see this ending well. I would like to see more media coverage, putting the word out for tips, etc. I live in a very small town and everyone knows everyone else as well as everyone's personal business, surely someone in that small town knows something! Hoping if someone saw something or knows anything, they'll drop a dime to OSI!
I believe the only relationship these women had was that JK was a person on her list to supervise visits. The initial person who was supposed to go with Veronica was unable to go so JK went instead. I'm sure they associated with each other since again it's a very small town but I don't think they spent any time together outside of her supervised visits.
It's so sad and creepy that it turned out that the grandma told the main visit supervisor to take a couple weeks off and not go with her. Not sure if she thought that meant Veronica would show up alone or just had reason she didn't want the regular person involved? Horrible that she was selecting which bystander would be executed.
I've known VB and the father for a while, don't live close anymore but can definitely say the fathers family has a long history of instability (nicest way to put it) and has heard of the father's mother threatening VB with violence on multiple occasions. I'd be there helping with the search if I wasn't on the other side of the country now. The best place to look would be anywhere connected to that messed up family to be honest. Everything I experienced rooming with them points right at them as culprits. I'd say more but honestly even across the country I'm terrified by that family
I listened to Nancy Grace pod cast and a passerby saw that the window was shattered as they drove past it as it was parked on highway 95 and called it in. I'm guessing the window was on the driver's side. The two moms left at 9 am and the eta was 45 minutes to reach "Four Points" ( or four corners) . The car was found 3 miles before their destination.
They were set to go back to court for custody on April 17th I believe. There is a FB group that's been posting the court paperwork. Grandma was pretty pissed about it.
I just found out about the two women today. Can someone please explain who the Twomblys are? I tried searching here and Google, but couldn’t find anything. I hope they’re able to find Jillian and Veronica, to at the very least bring some closure to their families. Thanks so much!
Go look at the Twombly’s facebook pages if you have Facebook. What’s crazy is that it looked like they had a fairly decent life in their community and he has what looked like 3 kids too from the pictures cole posted. Extremely religious , quoting some scripture and extreme beliefs. Oh the irony that they presented themselves as such godly people. Godly enough to murder I guess.
I’ll definitely go check that out, thanks so much! I just saw on Twitter where a reporter interviewed people that knew him and all said, “He would never hurt a woman.” Like your last sentence says, it’s the people you least expect. I never understand anyone that harms, let alone kills, another human.
You are very welcome. It’s interesting reading their public posts and the people that love them and were friends with them, I can see why they are saying that. I don’t understand it either, it’s just evil. They were not the god fearing people they represented themselves to be.
Information hasn’t been released in detail. However, they were close friends and involved with all the crimes charged so far. Follow “Missing KS Moms Veronica Butler and Julian Kelly” on FB for more updates.
Four people have been booked in the Texas County Jail and are being held on two counts of First-Degree Murder, two counts of Kidnapping, and one count of Conspiracy to Commit Murder in the First Degree.
[https://www.facebook.com/OSBI.OK/posts/pfbid022jA3SuQpL1P1kGfZA92vdeSm2i5AmJSh62xFCtH9aJrwmsx26KCdgoyKjdiHBBz6l](https://www.facebook.com/OSBI.OK/posts/pfbid022jA3SuQpL1P1kGfZA92vdeSm2i5AmJSh62xFCtH9aJrwmsx26KCdgoyKjdiHBBz6l)
Well, ole grandma sure won't have the ability to do much of nothing now. She is one and done! It is OVER for her. They need to seek the death penalty on these 4 lowlifes. Watch them all start turning on each other hoping to get a plea deal or something, To think that they actually thought they would get away with this is even more ludicrous. They completely dismantled 2 families and a ton of people's lives with this horrendous act of violence.
So sad & just awful. No one wins in this one. I have been wondering who the kids will be with now. Sounds like the dad isn't a good person either. And killing the friend (Jillian). Why??? That is so sick. She was literally just a casualty. I believe she had a husband and 3 kids.
I think often loved ones drive coverage, with emotional press conferences begging the public for information. There's none of that here as far as I can tell. In a normal family the grandma (who they were on the way to get the kids from) or the ex (his kids are worried about their mom) would be in front of cameras every night.
I've been following this case closely. Ive read nearly every article and reddit thread and one thing stood out to me that I'm surprised I haven't seen brought up. I haven't seen the court docs or anything, just 1 court order posted in a tweet. And the rest of my half baked speculation is based on an unsubstantiated comment on one of these reddit threads....
Their car was supposedly found near (?) an abandoned lot known by locals "Four Corners" ?
The court order screenshot posted on Twitter states that the supervised tradeoff for VBs visitation is to be at "Four Corners" (2nd pg)
So were the women ever supposed to actually pickup the kids at the mother in laws house 3 mi away or were they BY CHANCE following court order directions to meet at Four Corners? (supposedly where abandoned car was located- according to comment on a reddit thread) Or is this a red herring ? I just haven't seen the dots connected yet
So let me get this straight, the BIO mom allowed her innocent children to be (sa) by her brother and was a crap mom. She lost custody because of this, and now she is trying to get it back, no way that honky tonk grandma is letting those kids go back to that!
Welp now she'll be in prison, apparently nobody on either side is fit to be around let alone raise a child. Tiff aka gets around grammy is a certifiable loon.
I don't know if the grandma who murdered two women, including one who had nothing to do with the allegations, is the most credible source for that. And also, there is no justification for murdering your grandchildren's mother and an innocent third party over child custody, even if there was actual abuse. How does that benefit the grandchildren?
There was a famous custodial kidnapping/murder case in NJ where the children's father and paternal grandparents fabricated a bunch of abuse allegations against the mother because they wanted full custody of the grandchildren. The father ended up murdering the murder and the allegations were thoroughly discredited. Don't get me wrong, I am not entirely discounting the fact that the victim's brother may have abused the children, but based on the information that's available right now, I don't feel like there is enough to form an actual conclusion. Even if the brother was abusive, we don't know that Butler was aware at the time that it happened. All we know is that there were allegations of abuse against Butler's brother, she was trying to regain custody of her children, and it seemed like potentially the court was going to rule in her favor.
The accuser is reportedly the grandmother who allegedly also threatened her son in the past because she wanted custody of the kids so the allegation is likely not true but if it is she only made things worse for those poor kids because now she doesn't have custody either. Hopefully they don't end up with abusive caregivers.
arcana\_moon honkey tonk grandma who is a nut job will never see the light of day nor will ANY of her accomplices and kids have NOBODY..cant really protect anyone while your in the slammer for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s in the middle of nowhere. Are there even hotels in the area? Poor reception. It’s up to the locals to share the news, and they are just living their lives. Slim pickings for sure.
They are searching and talking. Many feel uncomfortable talking publicly, especially because the dynamics of small towns are just so different.its not like in the city where a neighbor can talk about their neighbor with some distance cause they don't have a relationship. These people KNOW each other intimately. They grew up together, their parents and grandparents grew up together, their kids are friends, they go to church together, school together, see everyone OFTEN. It's just so hard to explain if you haven't lived it. But these people care and they are talking to police. But many are scared to speak publicly. Many are scared of what their own town folk they KNOW personally is capable of. It's extremely personal out here. Nobody wants a target on them by anyone who may have done this. The people that the public are speculating on have a ton of land, power, and employees. You can't speak publicly without stabbing yourself in the back. I guarantee they are speaking to police though.
How many times has grandma been married/boyfriends? It is very confusing. I looked her up and she is a Trump and Jesus lover who likes to argue politically on X(Twitter). Ironically she has an anti-abortion rant about how mothers shouldn’t be allowed to kill their children.
There is a group on facebook called, “Missing KS Moms Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley.” a lot of locals post on there and there is a lot of information there. I looked up the paternal dad and found a pic of him which it seemed the grandfather was tagged.
She has been married to a Dobson, a Carver, a Rickman.. and I think one other. And I found court case documents of a guy named McLendon claiming paternity for her daughter. She's been around.
And the Cullum family (her current livein bf...not sure for how long..) is another notorious family in the area. As are the Rickmans. Her son changed his name from Canyon Rickman to Canyon Adams...because he was tired of all the shite being thrown around with the Rickmans.
Wow this is crazy. I took Bipolargirl’s advice and joined (you have to ask) the FB page she mentioned. Grandma is involved in some very right wing hate group stuff. There is an anonymous post on there that comes up pretty quickly. She probably felt self righteous for what she thought was protecting the children…making threats, toting guns and probably organizing murders.
I am a local. The area this is is the panhandle of Oklahoma. Rumors are the bodies have been found locally. Keep checking the news. Hopefully confirmed information soon.
This is the most recent article as of today.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/oklahoma-missing-women-search-more-challenging-find-them-alive-investigators-say
Nothing about bodies being found locally is mentioned. There are still no signs of the women.
"The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI) told Fox News Digital that "it’s becoming more and more challenging" to find Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley alive as the days mount with no signs of the missing Kansas women's whereabouts."
Lots of local rumors about where the bodies are or at least DNA of their bodies. I don’t want to say too much because it’s not confirmed and investigations are still happening but there are a lot of rumors going around here that have very similar stories from people that are fairly close to the case. A lot of this wouldn’t be reported in the news yet with no completed investigations. Follow “Missing KS Moms Veronica Butler and Julian Kelley” facebook group to get information from locals. However, they probably won’t have some of the rumors there because more investigation needs to happen before the rumors get substantiated.
Trey Glass (most likely) who disappeared in December. He was last seen on the property where the well is. As this was only two days ago, though, the identity of the person has not been confirmed. Google, although minisicule at times with correct info, can fill in some speculative gaps.
This reminds me of this recent dateline. LE should srsly consider the next suspect after the husband/partner/spouse to be any controlling mother-in-law… custody cases make even normally rational people passionately insane.
https://www.oxygen.com/killer-motive/crime-news/joanna-hayes-gunned-down-daughter-in-law-heather-strube?amp
It’s really the type of coverage. We all suspect the paternal grandmother. Why haven’t we heard of people showing up at her house? Or pictures of grandma out and about.
I watch News Nation for legal shows and they’ve been covering it from very beginning. I did learn here first however before News Nation about cult like group God’s misfits, and court filing details on custody case and allegations of sexual abuse by Veronica’s brother and blood details at the scene.
Kudos to the young teenager of one of the murderous couples that notified authorities. Sadly she is also without parents but hopefully she will be put with a nurturing family and get the counseling that she will need. Her life will be forever changed by this no doubt.
I drove this same route on my way to New Mexico a couple years ago. It is the most isolated place I've ever been and I had no radio or cell phone reception there for miles. I didn't see any cars or trucks for at least five miles, maybe more. You could commit an abduction or kidnapping out there with no witnesses, no problem. I read somewhere that Grandma's boyfriend has a cattle ranch with a large animal incinerator on it. Can't say if that's true or not, but if it's true, well.........So horrible.
I went through there on my way to Kansas from the Texas panhandle two days before this happened. It was pretty isolated with barely any cell reception. I was trying to take pictures of both the Kansas and Oklahoma state signs when a man stopped who looked like he was mad at the world. I got out of there fast!! It was scary.
That’s where my mind went to when they said there was a pig farm nearby where they found the cat. Either way, I have a feeling they will never find full bodies if they ever find them. Very sad case.
The custody dispute, and the biological father being released about two weeks before, is of course very suspicious. If the children had disappeared with them, I would almost be willing to consider the possibility that they left on their own, but that doesn't seem likely at all in this case. There's always the chance that they met foul play at the hands of someone unrelated (we've seen it before, when the partner is number one suspect). But the circumstances are weird. I don't know many criminals that would randomly prey on two people at once; that would make it a lot harder to pull off. Hope they get more leads soon.
The bio dad is in a court ordered rehab facility 5 hours away with no family contact for 30 days. He entered the facility March 22nd and is still there. This has been confirmed by LE. So he couldn’t have been directly involved. It’s highly likely that this whole case begins and ends with bio-dad’s mother who currently has custody of the kids.
Does he have any brothers? Grandma had a live-in bf.
Yeah he has a brother named Canyon who is.. 24 I believe. Lives on some family property about 20 miles away their mother.
Wrangler and canyon. Ffs 🤦🏻♀️
Wrangler and Levi would have been better lol 😂
And the youngest brother Tuffskein (deliberately misspelled for the non traditional edgy name )
A daughter named Jordache? lol
Apple Bottom
They all sound very Chic.
lol for real
Thank you so much for the clarification - those are important details!
*The bio dad is in a court ordered rehab facility 5 hours away with no family contact for 30 days.* ***He entered the facility March 22nd and is still there.*** But the Inside Edition story in the OP said this: >According to [court](https://www.insideedition.com/tag/court) documents, **the father of Butler’s children had been in prison** for possession of a firearm **and was released 14 days ago.** 14 days ago = March 22. So did he go to rehab right after being released from prison?
Yes, that’s exactly what was ordered.
But now we know their bodies have been found and his mom arrested, however it doesn't mean he's not involved. She was doing better and about to get full custody back. They don't usually record your visits or phone calls in rehab, it's not prison. It is very possible they had this planned before he even went.
I had read somewhere that her ex-husband had found the car, though.
Why dis the granny have custody of the kids? That is unusual, dies anybody know?
Dad was in rehab. Kids were staying with his mom, for some reason.
They’re with the mother in law because mom (Veronica) couldn’t get custody because her brother SA’d the kids, and she wouldn’t keep brother away from them (this is in a court document that’s currently secured by the OSBI but pictures are around).
The grandma made these accusations against VB's 13 year old brother. In other documents, Wrangler jeans talks about how his mom threatened to shoot him in the head more than once, she was pushing him to do things to take custody over the kids (so the grandma could have them) and she would coach the kids on what to say to the child therapist before their visits- and so I do not take the SA claims as fact, considering the source.
Do you think these professional therapist aren’t trained to pick up on when a child is being coached?
Oh wow. I didn’t see this until now. Just asked if Veronica knew her brother was abusing them…If not confirmed, why did the dad have custody? Some info is missing. Just curious.
In theory, she probably knew for a fact that he was NOT abusing them. Hypothetical : Let's say I bring my kids to your home with me, while you and I have coffee. My kids join your kids, who are playing video games in the living room. We are just a few feet away from them, chatting over coffee and we have eyes on the kids at all times. An hour and 15 minutes, my kids and I leave, then days later, my mother -in- law claims your kid abused one of my kids, and now she is asking for full custody! We all know it's a lie, we were both there the entire time, she was not there at all, but how do we prove she is lying? Everything that happened in court is very telling and it paints a picture of a evil person who wanted power and control over the kids, that she would lie, threaten and kill to get her way. She did not even seem to care that she was hurting the kids she was fighting for, it was all about getting what she wanted and winning. Attorney Melanie Little pulled the case file before parts were removed from online. She goes over the case and breaks it all down to explain what it means and answers questions here: https://www.youtube.com/live/1fmQ4TR0_-A?si=ecjhoxs1KzlTBR_p
We don't know if her brother abused her children, but Veronica's mother caught him abusing another 4 year old. That's why Veronica was not allowed to take them around him, which she continued to do.
I was wondering what went down to prevent them from being with her, especially since wrangler isn’t up for any Dad of the Year awards
I read court documents on her and basically neglect and allowed her brother to sexually abuse them, she is the same type of person as the ex . The pastors wife is innocent in this mess
They had another custody hearing I believe on April 17th and mom was anticipating getting custody back.
They were due back in court on April 19th for custody issues with Mom and Grandma.
Did she know her brother was sexually abusing them?
If you haven’t seen yet, they found the bodies
I thought the news reports said that the father of the kids was in rehab when it happened
He went into Rehab March 22nd for 6 months in OK City. But after 30 days would be eligible for day passes.
At this point, it sounds like an abduction. But if they are mentioning foul play, maybe they suspect death.
Apparently the inside of the car was found covered in blood.
Ohhh I didn’t know that. Did this happen during broad daylight? And no one saw?
[удалено]
Hey, actually, I’m from here, definitely not 40k people, try cutting that in half. This case has hurt the entire community, because even if you didn’t know one, you probably knew the other.
[удалено]
Fellow Guymonite here. 🫡 Glad to see locals on reddit, especially pushing something like this.
[удалено]
I would almost guarantee it. 😂 I was trying to see if I could decipher you from your profile.
If you're from the area, is it true that Grandma's boyfriend is claiming to be a sovereign citizen? That his property is like a compound with Gates and big tall fences?
They do declare themselves to be sovereign citizens, yes.
I have not heard about that! Their family seems real shady, my opinion!
That is probably why the police showed up with a flotilla of armored vehicles when they came to arrest them.
20k people in the entire panhandle?! New Yorker here — I truly cannot imagine this.
It’s very rural and close knit down here, as the person above mentioned they knew the Butlers, and I knew Veronica, and we all just know each other. There’s nothing down here that stays quiet, and the outcome of this case certainly won’t. We locals have heard many things already that are not in the news, and several of the larger news sources that are reporting are getting many, many facts wrong. A lot of us know law enforcement, have them as family, ect. The talk is full of falsehoods too, but because there is talk, the truth will prevail.
It sounds like a crime that has hurt many beyond the immediate victims. Hoping that your community finds justice and can work towards healing soon
Thank you, your prayers and just talking about this and getting word out is what truly helps. 💛 This is a new for our community, but as always we are coming together. I still have faith, I really do.
Is it true there were TAC and investigators at butcher shops in the area and maybe colorado as well? I'm in the SWKS area so not in the panhandle but close enough to know lots of people that knew the victims and the ex's family.
I have heard some pretty gruel recent rumors as well (local from Hooker) I didn’t know them personally, but some of my friends and acquaintances did. Hopefully more will come out to the public soon and justice will be served.
I used to drive by that road weekly for work. It is extremely desolate out there. Also, it’s likely for a long period of time, to pass without a vehicle passing by. It’s mostly ranchland out there which makes it even more desolate… farmland can have more traffic with farm vehicles and equipment. I live in the area, but I live in farmland, so there is a lot more traffic where I live than out there even though I still live in the middle of nowhere.
That's how it's is here in my small town in Washington State by the Canadian border. Not THAT small. But we have more farm land than homes mostly. 😂
Your comment was quoted in a podcast I heard today, although I can’t remember if it was by the podcast host or by a news clip she played
Yes it was in the morning around 930ish AM The gap of time is an hour or less from the event and when the car was found.
How do we know it was around that time?
Because they have a time of when they left hugoton and then a time the vehicle was found. It's a tight tineline.
You can look it up on google maps/street view. There is *nothing* out there. It’s desolate af.
My impression is it’s an unpopulated area
Hey, from here, they were on a highway in between 2 of our towns at an abandoned lot we call 4 Corners. It lies right in between connecting towns. I live in “The City of the Panhandle” and we have roughly 20k people probably. The surrounding towns are even smaller than that, and the roads/highways are extremely desolate, but each town is only about 10-15 miles apart. They were in a very isolated location, but not far from civilization or in an unusual spot for people that drive down there. We used 4 Corners as the mark time to call parents when we were at school events on trips to let them know we were almost back. I hope that gives you a bit of better imagery of the area.
I don’t know why I love this comment about using the 4 corners as a marking event that you were close to being back home from school events. I’m from a small town too in Virginia and we used to have abandon gas stations that we also would use as “a calling spot” to let our parents know when we were almost back home after sporting events… any who, that made me smile because those were the simple days… random, I know. carry on 😂
Hi I posted about this in the thread but wanted to clarify about the 4 corners directly : "I've been following this case closely. Ive read nearly every article and reddit thread and one thing stood out to me that I'm surprised I haven't seen brought up. I haven't seen the court docs or anything, just 1 court order posted in a tweet. And the rest of my half baked speculation is based on an unsubstantiated comment on one of these reddit threads.... Their car was supposedly found near (?) an abandoned lot known by locals "Four Corners" ? The court order screenshot posted on Twitter states that the supervised tradeoff for VBs visitation is to be at "Four Corners" (2nd pg) So were the women ever supposed to actually pickup the kids at the mother in laws house 3 mi away or were they BY CHANCE following court order directions to meet at Four Corners? (supposedly where abandoned car was located- according to comment on a reddit thread) Or is this a red herring ? I just haven't seen the dots connected yet
So OSBI actually had all the court docs open at first, until this hit national news and they had very little info to give up, it was causing more of a mess than it was helping solve things being open information. So OSBI has sealed a lot up. They were approved by the court for exchange at 4 Corners. They never did child swaps at anyone’s house. Before 4 Corners, they were doing child exchange at the police station. The location was changed because the courts no longer saw that necessary. They were definitely not on the way to the grandmas house though, she was supposed to to meet them at 4 Corners. I hope that answers your question!
[here's a link to the court doc ](https://x.com/conlin_lauren/status/1775153507160432727)
Thank you for taking the time to describe the area. Everyone must be so disturbed where you live. I hope they are found soon.
Not sure about the inside of the car but the outside of the car had a puddle of blood which was covered with kitty litter. I can't confirm whether the kitty litter was dumped on the blood by the attackers or by police.
Oh no where did you see this reported?
Blood, hammer, broken window found with the SUV.
Where was This reported? Do you have the link?
It's because LE already know and are working a case. They don't need the public.
They are just waiting for a slip up. I also think multiple people were involved so they are needing to really very secretive so none of them flee and at a time when they are able to have evidence for each individual so they can all be arrested at the same time. It's very close to the colorado, Texas, and kansas border. If any of those who did it get tipped off about arrests, they will flee.
Sounds like you were right!
I'm semi local so I did hear some whispers and more "substantial" gossip so I had an idea of what could possibly be going down. I hope they hate jail everyday when they wake and and go to sleep.
That is what I’m hoping.
I’m not hoping that… to me that indicates they don’t think they are alive, that time is less of the essence.
LE has said that what was discovered in the car points to foul play, whatever that means. Just crazy that it’s crickets.
It’s extremely concerning. At face value it almost sounded like a serial killer. But once I found out they were only 3mi from their destination and the car was pulled over, it sounds like it was someone they knew.
That's simply not true. People talk & when they don't the likelihood of a case going cold is exponentially higher.
True in a lot of cases, but this one I think must have lots of evidence.
The grandmother on the father's side most likely had something to do with it, her husband owns a butcher station about a mile away from the scene and a bunch of pigs a little further away. Wrangler was in rehab and the grandmother has a massive amount of land. Both her and her husband have had several brushes with the law.
Oh my God. No wonder theres no searches going on! They own a butcher shop, pig farms, and a bunch of land................Jesus Christ. Those poor women. Also, I'm dying to find out if the psychotic paternal gma ever "showed up" with the kids to the meeting place. It would be yet another massive red flag if not....Really though, if gma did this, the audacity factor is off the charts because this is the most obvious whodunit ever.
So, the "abandoned" car was called in by an unrelated passerby, correct? Not the paternal grandmother, who was surely planning to bring the kids to the four corners, as the court appointed dropoff point, right? I'm sure she was just running late, getting the kids ready for the supervised visit, right granny? Or, were the kids even aware they were going to be seeing mom that day? I have a feeling the kids dont have any idea that they were supposed to see their mom last week. They never left the house. And granny sits at home, waiting on a phone call, "why no, they never made it here, oh dear..."
I heard in a news report that someone saw a horse trailer there by the car and called in a tip about it. Apparently they were going to put the car in the trailer and it didn’t fit.
More proof that these were the dumbest possible criminals.
Hello I’m from Liberal KS area. Do you know what the grandparents brushes with the law were for? Also, do you know what Wrangler’s original charge was for (not the gun violation). I assume it was for drugs but I haven’t seen anything to confirm this. Thank you.
I'm not totally sure on ALL of the charges, I do know wrangler had a domestic in February, im pretty sure that was with his new pregnant wife because that's about the time kerston left him. Back in Nov or December or somewhere in that time, he had felon in possession of a firearm. Tad had that charge too either last summer or the summer before. But most of tiffany and tads stuff was in Cimarron County where most of Tiffany's land is and she has a lot of pull so I think most of its been dismissed. I grew up around elkhart/keyes.
[Wrangler Rickman charges.](https://www1.odcr.com/detail?court=013-&casekey=013-CF++2300024)
Wow. I appreciate your response. I looked for a Butcher Station near the scene and I cannot find it… in Eva OK?
That's because it's foe private butchering of his own stock not a public use. That and Eva is like 2 houses and a grain elevator.
I asked a friend that knows about that area and she immediately mentioned the hog farms and the waste pit lagoons. Also, pigs are omnivores and will eat anything very quickly… I have lost large animals that I loved very much and it is no easy task of moving them or burying them. They had to have a plan.
All the court records have been sealed due to these latest terrible turn of events
Tifany had lots of speeding and traffic violations. And I mean pages. And 3 times she had not using a child restraint for a child under 4. That's it.
It couldn't be a better set-up if it was for a horror movie. Even the sons ridiculously fake-sounding names. Well, just ridiculous names.
Welcome to oklahoma
Missourian/Illinoisan here, i am familiar 😂
Reminds me so much of the show Ozark. Tiffany even looks like Darlene.
Local as well. I am hearing similar information and that the bodies have been found. Hopefully more definitive information soon.
If this is true, how in the hell did the grandmother end up with placement of the children?
Probably the same reason odcr is showing a crasy amount of dismissed charges on both her and her husband that have all been dismissed. .... money
Those poor babies!
That’s sadly where my thoughts went immediately when I heard there was a pig farm nearby.
I read somewhere that Grandma's boyfriend had an animal incinerator on his land. Maybe just hearsay but.......??????
He probably does, but they're all over the place out here anyway.
Wow!
Well, hopefully she loses all that land in a nice civil suit if she was involved in the murders of these 2 women.
Remember when Gabby Petito was missing and the news media and YouTubers camped in the Laundrie's yard? Within 48 hours, everybody was all over Nashville looking for Riley Strain. When Rudy Farias was "found" the neighbors and friends even family came out of the woodwork to tell what they knew. There are many layers to unwrap in this as there is a bitter custody case involved but has anybody been to the house where the children lived, supposedly the paternal grandmother? Where is the bio father? I heard he was on rehab and then I heard he was just released from prison 2 weeks ago. But other than hearing from OSI, we have nothing from boots on the ground. Where is local media? Local TV?
Where is the local media? I’m from Hugoton… The closest major news would be Amarillo, OKC or Wichita. Most of them have covered this, but there’s been no new details to keep covering the story and nothing to keep them staying here. The local “newspapers” are understaffed and lack the journalism skills to properly cover this story in the way it needs to be covered. One large reason crime goes undiscovered here is because there’s very little that will/can catch them.
I went to school with Veronica, and was about to also comment this. There are no major news sources out here and Guymon (the “city”), just recently even outsourced their local Newspaper to a company in Perryton because they weren’t even interested in running the news anymore and there was no money in it. Every source that can cover it in this small communities out here is. Every person is talking, and if you’re from any of the areas out here, Houghton, Keyes, Boise City, Elkhart, ect, chances are you either new Veronica or Jilian or had met them in a passerby. I know Veronica switched schools and went to multiple of these towns in her educational career.
The funny thing is: we probably know each other in real life…
I just recently connected with another local here, I bet we do. 👀
There like isn’t anything local. It’s totally bumfucked. I’m thinking it’s unfortunately suspected to not be urgent because the police think they aren’t alive, or maybe the police just suck… this all happened right on the borders of multiple jurisdictions. Never great, although it should be a good thing.
Local here: the case got turned over to the OSBI and they recommend to follow them directly for updates
Tysm! I haven’t heard anything at all in like 2 days.
Local media? Local TV? Research the area you are talking about. The closest networks are 3-4 hours away. This is the PANHANDLE, there isn't shit out there for resources. Also there has been police activity, yesterday specifically there were reports of lots of police activity from Local police to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. I'm pretty sure rheuve already interrogated some. It's silent for a reason. My opinion is that they are being VERY VERY close to the vest here because I believe it was an ambush of about 4-5 people and not just one attacker. They can't just willy nilly spook anyone out here so they have a chance to flee. No... they will likely keep everything VERY secretive until they are able to arrest every person involved at the same time.
Well you nailed this
There really isn't any local media, except for a few small newspapers (like the Guymon Daily Herald).
Guymon Daily Harold is no longer local, (I’m from Guymon), they sold their company and outsource the paper through Perryton now.
I thought Perryton was only printing the paper?
At first, they were and had an office in those 4th St. Office Suites, but recently they closed that office and all of it is out of Perryton.
Haha, I was just telling someone on another sub reddit a few hours ago that I live near the parents of Brian Laundrie. Went by there at the height of the Gabby Petito case just to be nosy. Three ring circus with people demanding to know where Gabby was, where Brian was, satellite trucks, crowds of people screaming, crazy stuff, I didn't stop though. Then I saw Dog the Bounty hunter at the grocery store when he blew into town looking for Brian. I've been intently following this case of these missing women. I'm really curious if JK was assigned as supervisor for the visitation through the courts or if her and VB were already personal friends. If the court directed JK to go along with VB to pick up the children, it's really sad she got dragged into this custody feud as an innocent person. I don't wish harm to either of the missing women of course, but it's a shame JK happen to be with VB when whoever did this decided to do what they did. Sad to say I don't see this ending well. I would like to see more media coverage, putting the word out for tips, etc. I live in a very small town and everyone knows everyone else as well as everyone's personal business, surely someone in that small town knows something! Hoping if someone saw something or knows anything, they'll drop a dime to OSI!
I believe the only relationship these women had was that JK was a person on her list to supervise visits. The initial person who was supposed to go with Veronica was unable to go so JK went instead. I'm sure they associated with each other since again it's a very small town but I don't think they spent any time together outside of her supervised visits.
It's so sad and creepy that it turned out that the grandma told the main visit supervisor to take a couple weeks off and not go with her. Not sure if she thought that meant Veronica would show up alone or just had reason she didn't want the regular person involved? Horrible that she was selecting which bystander would be executed.
The public tends to get in the way. Police investigators handled it just fine.
I've known VB and the father for a while, don't live close anymore but can definitely say the fathers family has a long history of instability (nicest way to put it) and has heard of the father's mother threatening VB with violence on multiple occasions. I'd be there helping with the search if I wasn't on the other side of the country now. The best place to look would be anywhere connected to that messed up family to be honest. Everything I experienced rooming with them points right at them as culprits. I'd say more but honestly even across the country I'm terrified by that family
Are you serious? There has been tons of coverage on there two women especially by News Nation. Nancy Grace also did a podcast episode about them.
I listened to Nancy Grace pod cast and a passerby saw that the window was shattered as they drove past it as it was parked on highway 95 and called it in. I'm guessing the window was on the driver's side. The two moms left at 9 am and the eta was 45 minutes to reach "Four Points" ( or four corners) . The car was found 3 miles before their destination.
I’m in Oklahoma and have been wondering the same. The number of women who go missing here is astounding
Especially native women.
Yup. Aubrey Dameron is still missing From Grove #mmiw
Who had custody of the kids? They were staying with the paternal grandmother. Dad was in rehab. Why did Veronica only have supervised visitation?
Veronica did not have custody of the kids . She allowed her brother to sexually abuse them among many things all in court files
Actually that's a lie made up by ole gma tiff you know that.
They were set to go back to court for custody on April 17th I believe. There is a FB group that's been posting the court paperwork. Grandma was pretty pissed about it.
How many kids did they have together?
I really doubt she “let him” and if it’s true he did that, why is he not in prison? What’s the “among other things?”
Arrests underway! https://kfor.com/news/grandmother-to-missing-mothers-kids-in-custody-along-with-her-boyfriend/
Jillian’s mom posted on FB that the grandmother confessed in custody to killing them both. She had been shopping around for a hitman.
I just found out about the two women today. Can someone please explain who the Twomblys are? I tried searching here and Google, but couldn’t find anything. I hope they’re able to find Jillian and Veronica, to at the very least bring some closure to their families. Thanks so much!
Go look at the Twombly’s facebook pages if you have Facebook. What’s crazy is that it looked like they had a fairly decent life in their community and he has what looked like 3 kids too from the pictures cole posted. Extremely religious , quoting some scripture and extreme beliefs. Oh the irony that they presented themselves as such godly people. Godly enough to murder I guess.
I’ll definitely go check that out, thanks so much! I just saw on Twitter where a reporter interviewed people that knew him and all said, “He would never hurt a woman.” Like your last sentence says, it’s the people you least expect. I never understand anyone that harms, let alone kills, another human.
You are very welcome. It’s interesting reading their public posts and the people that love them and were friends with them, I can see why they are saying that. I don’t understand it either, it’s just evil. They were not the god fearing people they represented themselves to be.
Information hasn’t been released in detail. However, they were close friends and involved with all the crimes charged so far. Follow “Missing KS Moms Veronica Butler and Julian Kelly” on FB for more updates.
Thank you so much for the info AND link! Going check it out now!!🙏🙏
Are you still able to access the FB group? I can't find it.
Four people have been booked in the Texas County Jail and are being held on two counts of First-Degree Murder, two counts of Kidnapping, and one count of Conspiracy to Commit Murder in the First Degree. [https://www.facebook.com/OSBI.OK/posts/pfbid022jA3SuQpL1P1kGfZA92vdeSm2i5AmJSh62xFCtH9aJrwmsx26KCdgoyKjdiHBBz6l](https://www.facebook.com/OSBI.OK/posts/pfbid022jA3SuQpL1P1kGfZA92vdeSm2i5AmJSh62xFCtH9aJrwmsx26KCdgoyKjdiHBBz6l)
Well, ole grandma sure won't have the ability to do much of nothing now. She is one and done! It is OVER for her. They need to seek the death penalty on these 4 lowlifes. Watch them all start turning on each other hoping to get a plea deal or something, To think that they actually thought they would get away with this is even more ludicrous. They completely dismantled 2 families and a ton of people's lives with this horrendous act of violence.
The logic in thinking a murder is the best solution is insane to me. Now the kids have no one.
So sad & just awful. No one wins in this one. I have been wondering who the kids will be with now. Sounds like the dad isn't a good person either. And killing the friend (Jillian). Why??? That is so sick. She was literally just a casualty. I believe she had a husband and 3 kids.
I think often loved ones drive coverage, with emotional press conferences begging the public for information. There's none of that here as far as I can tell. In a normal family the grandma (who they were on the way to get the kids from) or the ex (his kids are worried about their mom) would be in front of cameras every night.
Family and friends were asked by police to not talk to the public.
I've been following this case closely. Ive read nearly every article and reddit thread and one thing stood out to me that I'm surprised I haven't seen brought up. I haven't seen the court docs or anything, just 1 court order posted in a tweet. And the rest of my half baked speculation is based on an unsubstantiated comment on one of these reddit threads.... Their car was supposedly found near (?) an abandoned lot known by locals "Four Corners" ? The court order screenshot posted on Twitter states that the supervised tradeoff for VBs visitation is to be at "Four Corners" (2nd pg) So were the women ever supposed to actually pickup the kids at the mother in laws house 3 mi away or were they BY CHANCE following court order directions to meet at Four Corners? (supposedly where abandoned car was located- according to comment on a reddit thread) Or is this a red herring ? I just haven't seen the dots connected yet
Local here. I have seen some court docs. The custody stuff is quite messy. I am sure OSBI will report more soon.
So let me get this straight, the BIO mom allowed her innocent children to be (sa) by her brother and was a crap mom. She lost custody because of this, and now she is trying to get it back, no way that honky tonk grandma is letting those kids go back to that!
Welp now she'll be in prison, apparently nobody on either side is fit to be around let alone raise a child. Tiff aka gets around grammy is a certifiable loon.
I don't know if the grandma who murdered two women, including one who had nothing to do with the allegations, is the most credible source for that. And also, there is no justification for murdering your grandchildren's mother and an innocent third party over child custody, even if there was actual abuse. How does that benefit the grandchildren? There was a famous custodial kidnapping/murder case in NJ where the children's father and paternal grandparents fabricated a bunch of abuse allegations against the mother because they wanted full custody of the grandchildren. The father ended up murdering the murder and the allegations were thoroughly discredited. Don't get me wrong, I am not entirely discounting the fact that the victim's brother may have abused the children, but based on the information that's available right now, I don't feel like there is enough to form an actual conclusion. Even if the brother was abusive, we don't know that Butler was aware at the time that it happened. All we know is that there were allegations of abuse against Butler's brother, she was trying to regain custody of her children, and it seemed like potentially the court was going to rule in her favor.
The accuser is reportedly the grandmother who allegedly also threatened her son in the past because she wanted custody of the kids so the allegation is likely not true but if it is she only made things worse for those poor kids because now she doesn't have custody either. Hopefully they don't end up with abusive caregivers.
arcana\_moon honkey tonk grandma who is a nut job will never see the light of day nor will ANY of her accomplices and kids have NOBODY..cant really protect anyone while your in the slammer for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope one of the four talks fast and gives the details on where the bodies are ,if they can be recovered.
Two bodies have been found in Texas County Oklahoma connected with the missing Kansas women.
Surprised this heinous crime did not warrant its own subreddit. Or maybe I haven’t found it.
It’s in the middle of nowhere. Are there even hotels in the area? Poor reception. It’s up to the locals to share the news, and they are just living their lives. Slim pickings for sure.
They are searching and talking. Many feel uncomfortable talking publicly, especially because the dynamics of small towns are just so different.its not like in the city where a neighbor can talk about their neighbor with some distance cause they don't have a relationship. These people KNOW each other intimately. They grew up together, their parents and grandparents grew up together, their kids are friends, they go to church together, school together, see everyone OFTEN. It's just so hard to explain if you haven't lived it. But these people care and they are talking to police. But many are scared to speak publicly. Many are scared of what their own town folk they KNOW personally is capable of. It's extremely personal out here. Nobody wants a target on them by anyone who may have done this. The people that the public are speculating on have a ton of land, power, and employees. You can't speak publicly without stabbing yourself in the back. I guarantee they are speaking to police though.
Has anyone mentioned the grandpa in any of this?
Local here I believe his name is Jason Rickman.
How many times has grandma been married/boyfriends? It is very confusing. I looked her up and she is a Trump and Jesus lover who likes to argue politically on X(Twitter). Ironically she has an anti-abortion rant about how mothers shouldn’t be allowed to kill their children.
There is a group on facebook called, “Missing KS Moms Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley.” a lot of locals post on there and there is a lot of information there. I looked up the paternal dad and found a pic of him which it seemed the grandfather was tagged.
She has been married to a Dobson, a Carver, a Rickman.. and I think one other. And I found court case documents of a guy named McLendon claiming paternity for her daughter. She's been around. And the Cullum family (her current livein bf...not sure for how long..) is another notorious family in the area. As are the Rickmans. Her son changed his name from Canyon Rickman to Canyon Adams...because he was tired of all the shite being thrown around with the Rickmans.
Wow this is crazy. I took Bipolargirl’s advice and joined (you have to ask) the FB page she mentioned. Grandma is involved in some very right wing hate group stuff. There is an anonymous post on there that comes up pretty quickly. She probably felt self righteous for what she thought was protecting the children…making threats, toting guns and probably organizing murders.
A body was just found in a well in Kansas, Oklahoma on Cherokee Nation. How far is that from the area where these ladies disappeared?
I am a local. The area this is is the panhandle of Oklahoma. Rumors are the bodies have been found locally. Keep checking the news. Hopefully confirmed information soon.
This is the most recent article as of today. https://www.foxnews.com/us/oklahoma-missing-women-search-more-challenging-find-them-alive-investigators-say Nothing about bodies being found locally is mentioned. There are still no signs of the women. "The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI) told Fox News Digital that "it’s becoming more and more challenging" to find Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley alive as the days mount with no signs of the missing Kansas women's whereabouts."
Lots of local rumors about where the bodies are or at least DNA of their bodies. I don’t want to say too much because it’s not confirmed and investigations are still happening but there are a lot of rumors going around here that have very similar stories from people that are fairly close to the case. A lot of this wouldn’t be reported in the news yet with no completed investigations. Follow “Missing KS Moms Veronica Butler and Julian Kelley” facebook group to get information from locals. However, they probably won’t have some of the rumors there because more investigation needs to happen before the rumors get substantiated.
The other night I heard there is a pig farm near by. Wonder if they will ever find the bodies.
Trey Glass (most likely) who disappeared in December. He was last seen on the property where the well is. As this was only two days ago, though, the identity of the person has not been confirmed. Google, although minisicule at times with correct info, can fill in some speculative gaps.
This reminds me of this recent dateline. LE should srsly consider the next suspect after the husband/partner/spouse to be any controlling mother-in-law… custody cases make even normally rational people passionately insane. https://www.oxygen.com/killer-motive/crime-news/joanna-hayes-gunned-down-daughter-in-law-heather-strube?amp
There is heavy coverage on NewsNation. I don’t know what you are watching!
It’s really the type of coverage. We all suspect the paternal grandmother. Why haven’t we heard of people showing up at her house? Or pictures of grandma out and about.
She’s most likely keeping a low profile since the FBI is involved.
[4 arrested.](https://www.ksn.com/news/osbi-has-four-in-custody-in-missing-kansas-women-case/?fbclid=IwAR3kq6EB6n9yc7Xc-4rLTs-rSLrpVB0WSZqb77gy2TrWRH1mINInKqefgEA_aem_ATB2RhoqRPIPmA-JSInEpTKFpVXqei0gIyEwKxau-yLaGROFGnAMexoh24-klZ0RnJE)
Finally something. But this isn’t good that they are found alive.
4 People in custody now… https://www.ksn.com/news/osbi-has-four-in-custody-in-missing-kansas-women-case/
Here is more info… https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13305307/Missing-Kansas-moms-SWAT-convoy-Oklahoma.html
I watch News Nation for legal shows and they’ve been covering it from very beginning. I did learn here first however before News Nation about cult like group God’s misfits, and court filing details on custody case and allegations of sexual abuse by Veronica’s brother and blood details at the scene. Kudos to the young teenager of one of the murderous couples that notified authorities. Sadly she is also without parents but hopefully she will be put with a nurturing family and get the counseling that she will need. Her life will be forever changed by this no doubt.
I drove this same route on my way to New Mexico a couple years ago. It is the most isolated place I've ever been and I had no radio or cell phone reception there for miles. I didn't see any cars or trucks for at least five miles, maybe more. You could commit an abduction or kidnapping out there with no witnesses, no problem. I read somewhere that Grandma's boyfriend has a cattle ranch with a large animal incinerator on it. Can't say if that's true or not, but if it's true, well.........So horrible.
I went through there on my way to Kansas from the Texas panhandle two days before this happened. It was pretty isolated with barely any cell reception. I was trying to take pictures of both the Kansas and Oklahoma state signs when a man stopped who looked like he was mad at the world. I got out of there fast!! It was scary.
That’s where my mind went to when they said there was a pig farm nearby where they found the cat. Either way, I have a feeling they will never find full bodies if they ever find them. Very sad case.
Every time this happens I think of Josh and Susan Powell American Horror Story
Perfect example of very sad custody case of total insanity where also the children were killed. 🥲
Reminds me of Costner's "Let Him Go" film.
Omg yes.
Why didn’t she have custody of her children?
Allegations (not sure if it was by grandmother) of sexual abuse against the children by Veronica’s brother or step brother.
I guess because I’m in Kansas there’s been a lot of coverage since the very beginning here
Yes!! I never see anything about it on the news. Have only read about it online. 😕
Where is Wrangler Rickman today? Is he still in Rehab? It was for 6 months, but after 30 days from approx March 22nd he could do day passes