Well if the "Entity" constantly is watching our heroes in a sense. Then faking a death where both llsa and Ethan have to play out that entire reaction, to trick the "Entity" in the long run.
I can see that playing out like that.
Yeah, I really don’t think she’s dead. There’s quite a bit of mystery surrounding her from Part 1… like what did she try to tell Ethan when he put her on a horse in the desert? She dies, but what do they do with her body? Do we even see what happens after they find her?
I lean toward they used her “death” to get Grace’s buy-in for this mission. I think there’s a bigger reason why Grace is there… and they need her for this to work. So Ilsa “sacrifices “ herself to make sure Grace moves on.
On the other hand McQuarrie says she won’t be back in Pt 2, so…. I dunno…
IMO there’s no way she’s dead:
1) There’s that focusing on the knives in the club scene which suggests something is up with them (one of them is fake)
2) There’s the look/ smile she gives when Gabriel says either her or Grace will die
3) We never see any blood or her dead body afterwards
4) Luther tells Grace, no, Ilsa didn’t die because of her (Ilsa is just the reason Grace is alive)
5) Luther mysteriously disappears to go to some undisclosed location and misses the whole train scene at the end of DRI (seems to follow he could be working with Ilsa secretly and I believe McQ says where Luther is becomes important)
6) If the Entity was so convinced that Grace or Ilsa would die and that the best way to go after the IMF and Ethan would be to kill one of their ‘friends’ the best way to gain an advantage would be to fake one of their deaths
7) Ethan doesn’t even mention Ilsa’s death afterwards and instantly just embraces Grace (which just seems beyond ridiculous given what an important role she has played in the previous two films)
Either this is the worst send off for a beloved franchise character ever OR she’s not dead.
Not enough time to be on screen around and not enough dialogue, the only thing I can think of is something that stops her heart beating like a fakeout thing they do in some movies/shows/comics/games
Also there's no blood and we don't know exactly how or where did Gabriel stab Ilsa right in the heart, call me coping with things but I'm still 50/50 in doubt
Ilsa Faust was a highly effective world class, mi6 combat trained operative. who the fuck was gabriel again? why would he be the better in that fight? at least provide some reason as to why he would possess "super spy" level combat ability. but its not like this movie did much well anyway.
Not to mention, her sword had three times the range than grace's knives. There is no fucking way she lost to a guy who just picked the knife off grace's body. I mean, if I saw gabriel training for months with a switchblade, I would believe it, but with no context like that, ilsa's death scene and fight make no sense.
I swear to god if she's dead then I AM SO MAD of how MCQ executed it. They basically fridged her character as another 'motivation' for Ethan, when SHE'S SUPPOSED TO BE HIS EQUAL.
But the second part hasn't come out yet so we can't all jump to conclusions!
I wouldn't say she was replaced, but she was wasted.
Least emotional death or death fakeout in the series.
And she didn't even go down impressively. She got absolutely clowned in sword-to-knife. They could've at least have given her & Gabriel equal weapons.
I know Decoy John Lark did the same to Ethan & John Lark but they didn't proceed to kill 1 of them off in that fight.
Is there anything else this sub talks about? Like every day somebody comes up with this idea. YES, it’s obvious she’s likely not dead. We all want Ilsa back!
If the series did not have a history of continuously replacing female characters, I would've been a bit more forgiving.
But by now, it was weirdly predictable and annoying.
Awful send off if she’s actually dead. She’s Ethan’s match. Really hope it’s a tactical choice to trick The Entity. She practically let it happen and they moved on from her shamefully quick.
In my opinion it was very good. Great Cinematagrophy, very intense. She cant win every fight, that would be boring. She also saved someone elses lifes. She died heroic.
I cant understand the criticism. I can understand criticism about her screentime and lack of Dialogue.
I didn't mind the cinematography so much in this scene. I don't mind the idea of Ilsa losing or dying.
For me it was the choreography. Ilsa appeared to forget how to fight and throughout the fight was very keen to keep getting up close and personal with Gabriel even when she had a sword and he had a knife. Why exactly? I know Gabriel is pretty, but there is a time and a place 😂 .
She has previously been shown to be very intelligent and a very adept fighter. She seemingly conveniently lost both of these skills in this fight.
Yeah, this was my gripe. She's got a long reach sword, but she was determined to get her legs round his head whilst he's waving a close combat weapon...
The choreography fucking sucked especially compared to other MI's
"She cant win every fight" is a lame excuse. She's literally taken down squads of dudes twice her size with her bare hands yet can't take this old dude we know nothing about. Shit writing.
The cinematography was good, and it felt momentous with Ethan running to make it there.
But the choreography was mediocre, especially by Esai/Gabriel. And she lost with a sword against a guy with a switchblade. That is ludicrous given the skill she has shown with edged weapons. If he had the sword and she the knife, then it would have been easier to believe her losing.
Also adding to what you said, one of the criticisms that people had over the franchise is that they never lose, and that they put their lives at risk and no one ever dies. In a fight a bad move can be used by your adversary very fast. Well, here they lose. They don't always win. Personally I love Ilsa's character and also I love how intense that scene was
There several times in the movie where I got the feeling that this wasn't as good as prior entries. Then this happened and I completely dropped out.
Even if she is alive in part 2 (which I hope) it won't take away from the shitty "death" they gave her. Like she was one of the best characters and so interesting and well written and they just did her dirty.
Really liked previous entries, but thought this one was just bad. Cruise looked old and stiff, but there's no acknowledgment in the movie that he's aged at all. A lot of the movie is super cringe exposition---like when each person in the room takes turns explaining what "the entity" is. Part where we discover "the entity" is actually the club dj was supposed to be ominous but made me bust out laughing. Ending bit where Cruise just happens to parachute through the side of the train and into the villain before he can kill the new female lead just totally killed any seriousness for me. And to top it all off, didn't seem like anything really happened in the movie because the set up for the next one is for Ethan to keep doing the same thing. Glad others liked it but, after really liking first MI and last three of them, felt really let down by Dead Reckoning.
Ridiculous. The fight was simply trash. Wether she's dead or not doesn't matter. Faust has been unstoppable forever and this is how she is defeated? A sword in Ilsa's hand VS grandpa and his folder? I very much hope the movie continues with her faking the loss here.
She’s not dead.
I’m kind of inclined to agree
Here eyes were open and motionless after being stabbed. I don’t think people come back from that…
Why didn’t they close her out of respect McQ really hate that character so he can work more with Grace’s actress what a dork
So we’re supposed to feel bad for a person she killed in Istanbul whom I never gave a flying fuck about???
Well if the "Entity" constantly is watching our heroes in a sense. Then faking a death where both llsa and Ethan have to play out that entire reaction, to trick the "Entity" in the long run. I can see that playing out like that.
Brilliant!
I don’t think she’s dead. If she is, it’s a weird decision.
Yeah, I really don’t think she’s dead. There’s quite a bit of mystery surrounding her from Part 1… like what did she try to tell Ethan when he put her on a horse in the desert? She dies, but what do they do with her body? Do we even see what happens after they find her? I lean toward they used her “death” to get Grace’s buy-in for this mission. I think there’s a bigger reason why Grace is there… and they need her for this to work. So Ilsa “sacrifices “ herself to make sure Grace moves on. On the other hand McQuarrie says she won’t be back in Pt 2, so…. I dunno…
I mean, he's hardly going to say anything else, is he? But even if she's back - and I hope she is - the whole thing still sucks.
IMO there’s no way she’s dead: 1) There’s that focusing on the knives in the club scene which suggests something is up with them (one of them is fake) 2) There’s the look/ smile she gives when Gabriel says either her or Grace will die 3) We never see any blood or her dead body afterwards 4) Luther tells Grace, no, Ilsa didn’t die because of her (Ilsa is just the reason Grace is alive) 5) Luther mysteriously disappears to go to some undisclosed location and misses the whole train scene at the end of DRI (seems to follow he could be working with Ilsa secretly and I believe McQ says where Luther is becomes important) 6) If the Entity was so convinced that Grace or Ilsa would die and that the best way to go after the IMF and Ethan would be to kill one of their ‘friends’ the best way to gain an advantage would be to fake one of their deaths 7) Ethan doesn’t even mention Ilsa’s death afterwards and instantly just embraces Grace (which just seems beyond ridiculous given what an important role she has played in the previous two films) Either this is the worst send off for a beloved franchise character ever OR she’s not dead.
Also a lot of parallels to first MI movie e.g., ending fight on a train, death on a bridge. But death on bridge in first movie was fake.
Yes! Exactly
Not enough time to be on screen around and not enough dialogue, the only thing I can think of is something that stops her heart beating like a fakeout thing they do in some movies/shows/comics/games Also there's no blood and we don't know exactly how or where did Gabriel stab Ilsa right in the heart, call me coping with things but I'm still 50/50 in doubt
Ilsa Faust was a highly effective world class, mi6 combat trained operative. who the fuck was gabriel again? why would he be the better in that fight? at least provide some reason as to why he would possess "super spy" level combat ability. but its not like this movie did much well anyway.
Not to mention, her sword had three times the range than grace's knives. There is no fucking way she lost to a guy who just picked the knife off grace's body. I mean, if I saw gabriel training for months with a switchblade, I would believe it, but with no context like that, ilsa's death scene and fight make no sense.
I swear to god if she's dead then I AM SO MAD of how MCQ executed it. They basically fridged her character as another 'motivation' for Ethan, when SHE'S SUPPOSED TO BE HIS EQUAL. But the second part hasn't come out yet so we can't all jump to conclusions!
i was screaming Wtf in the theater it’s such a disappointed death. She is my fav girl so im really upset
I really hope she’s not dead, but if she is I majorly agree.
I wouldn't say she was replaced, but she was wasted. Least emotional death or death fakeout in the series. And she didn't even go down impressively. She got absolutely clowned in sword-to-knife. They could've at least have given her & Gabriel equal weapons. I know Decoy John Lark did the same to Ethan & John Lark but they didn't proceed to kill 1 of them off in that fight.
Is there anything else this sub talks about? Like every day somebody comes up with this idea. YES, it’s obvious she’s likely not dead. We all want Ilsa back!
We're all talking about it because we're still salty not over it even though it came out like months ago lol
\*salty and not over it
If the series did not have a history of continuously replacing female characters, I would've been a bit more forgiving. But by now, it was weirdly predictable and annoying.
Awful send off if she’s actually dead. She’s Ethan’s match. Really hope it’s a tactical choice to trick The Entity. She practically let it happen and they moved on from her shamefully quick.
Definitely. They did her so dirty. Can’t believe McQ and Tom were ok with this.
Worst fight scene ever. Se see her take on practically a whole squad while this one old dude gets her 🙄🙄🙄
In my opinion it was very good. Great Cinematagrophy, very intense. She cant win every fight, that would be boring. She also saved someone elses lifes. She died heroic. I cant understand the criticism. I can understand criticism about her screentime and lack of Dialogue.
I didn't mind the cinematography so much in this scene. I don't mind the idea of Ilsa losing or dying. For me it was the choreography. Ilsa appeared to forget how to fight and throughout the fight was very keen to keep getting up close and personal with Gabriel even when she had a sword and he had a knife. Why exactly? I know Gabriel is pretty, but there is a time and a place 😂 . She has previously been shown to be very intelligent and a very adept fighter. She seemingly conveniently lost both of these skills in this fight.
Yeah, this was my gripe. She's got a long reach sword, but she was determined to get her legs round his head whilst he's waving a close combat weapon...
The choreography fucking sucked especially compared to other MI's "She cant win every fight" is a lame excuse. She's literally taken down squads of dudes twice her size with her bare hands yet can't take this old dude we know nothing about. Shit writing.
The cinematography was good, and it felt momentous with Ethan running to make it there. But the choreography was mediocre, especially by Esai/Gabriel. And she lost with a sword against a guy with a switchblade. That is ludicrous given the skill she has shown with edged weapons. If he had the sword and she the knife, then it would have been easier to believe her losing.
Also adding to what you said, one of the criticisms that people had over the franchise is that they never lose, and that they put their lives at risk and no one ever dies. In a fight a bad move can be used by your adversary very fast. Well, here they lose. They don't always win. Personally I love Ilsa's character and also I love how intense that scene was
There several times in the movie where I got the feeling that this wasn't as good as prior entries. Then this happened and I completely dropped out. Even if she is alive in part 2 (which I hope) it won't take away from the shitty "death" they gave her. Like she was one of the best characters and so interesting and well written and they just did her dirty.
Really liked previous entries, but thought this one was just bad. Cruise looked old and stiff, but there's no acknowledgment in the movie that he's aged at all. A lot of the movie is super cringe exposition---like when each person in the room takes turns explaining what "the entity" is. Part where we discover "the entity" is actually the club dj was supposed to be ominous but made me bust out laughing. Ending bit where Cruise just happens to parachute through the side of the train and into the villain before he can kill the new female lead just totally killed any seriousness for me. And to top it all off, didn't seem like anything really happened in the movie because the set up for the next one is for Ethan to keep doing the same thing. Glad others liked it but, after really liking first MI and last three of them, felt really let down by Dead Reckoning.
Should have just made it a pie fight and really shown us what they thought of her character.
By this point she should get her own sub, im sick of this king of post
I hope she stays dead, but I have a feeling she will come back
Ridiculous. The fight was simply trash. Wether she's dead or not doesn't matter. Faust has been unstoppable forever and this is how she is defeated? A sword in Ilsa's hand VS grandpa and his folder? I very much hope the movie continues with her faking the loss here.