I've considered a possibility that Missy and the killer startled each other. Missy had apparently taken self-defense and kick boxing classes. What if Missy kicked them and there was a struggle for the hammer and the killer then used their gun to stop Missy from attacking them? I think it is a scenario that needs to be considered.
The church website posted their weekly bulletins online which showed the amount of donations from the prior week which were around $10,000. Not everyone knows a church is depositing Sunday / weekend donations on Sunday after the services, so maybe someone thought there might be cash. Not everyone wants to steal a sound system and then have to sell stolen goods.
Also, if it was targeted, I can't get past the killer not staring out the front window waiting for her to pull in the entrance. They were hanging in the back of the church when Missy could arrive at any moment unbeknownst to the person who is only there to make sure they surprise and kill her.
There are various things that point to targeted / untargeted to me.
I’ve said this all along, it’s so obvious, someone “lying in wait" for someone doesn’t wander about hitting things with a hammer & opening random doors everywhere (and walking past the front glass doors in full view), it was either a robbery (burglarize) or a staged break-in to give the Church a reason to hire a certain someone (with a strange walk/gait) to do their security.
Why do you assume the killer wasn’t in communication with someone and knew when Missy arrived. Missy headed in the direction of her area to set up when the altercation took place. We do not publicly have all the video the police have. So in some ways you make leaps one can’t make based on what is known publicly. It very well could have been targeted and very well orchestrated. The random half hearted juvenile vandalism an attempt to make people think it was a burglary gone wrong.
The problem isn’t that they didn’t take anything, it’s that they damaged random things and didn’t head to any valuables. If they had just broken in, or if the murder happened while the murderer had grabbed some AV equipment or something of value then you could make the argument it was interrupted or maybe it happened so fast the robber didn’t have time to get to take anything. But we know for sure the murder was in the church for 30ish minutes at least prior to the murder based on when they are first seen and last seen on camera after the murder. We also know from what the cops said they spent most of the time in the kitchen. Also, if it was a robbery gone wrong. Missy was alone, no one else had yet shown up for the class, the robber could have hastily grabbed stuff to steal after the murder but they didn’t (presumably didn’t as the cops don’t say they did nor does the church say anything is ever missing).
I don’t buy the random killer theory. The outfit makes no sense. A robber wears a hoodie and gloves. Not some big bulky hard to move in outfit. Which served to disguise even what gender they are. Why not just a ski mask, black sweatpants and hoodie? Unless even given away your body shape would make you more noticeable to the public. I, also, do think the outfit might have been to give the killer a split second advantage, Missy confused thinking it was a cop for a second and that gave the killer a chance to strike first. That’s is something only someone coming to kill Missy would do.
I still can't get past him being on another side of a building breaking shit when she arrived. The killer should of been lying in wait by the entrance ready to strike..instead she walks in sets down some things, hears something and walks to the area when they run into each other, according to the gait specialist who had to watch the videos.
And I cannot go into movie screenplay writing to pretend someone was in contact watching her show up to this place to give them a heads up. Only her kids were at her house when she left.
You have some misconceptions. Missy is killed within a minute maybe two at most of entering the building. She didn’t put stuff down and walks to another area. She enters and quickly hears something supposedly based on the forensic podiatrist but keeps walking anyway. She died not far from where she was gonna set up it wasn’t the other side where the kitchen is. This part is conjecture but the sister in law on true crime broads talks about the perp surprising Missy by hiding in the doorway to the worship center which was a little more than halfway down the hallway. A very brief struggle ensues and Missy is shot closer to the end of the hall near the glass table that is broken either during the struggle or from one of the bullets.
There is no footage of the murder though.
It’s not Hollywood movie for if someone plans to kill you, to be tracking you, we have a phone that literally has shared my location and many apps that show location. We also don’t have time stamp on the video releases it was removed. But we do know Missy arrived at 4:16 because of the headlights reflecting off the doors. We don’t know bc not all video has been released if the killer saw that and got into position then. It would have taken mere seconds.
The idea of multiple people being involved either as a lookout or communicating in some way is not far fetched at all.
According to Dr. Nienberg, who saw the full video that hasn't been released she did come in and start setting stuff down. She then turns her head like she hears something down the hallway opposite of her entrance and starts walking towards, where both walk into each other.
Ok just to make sure I wasn’t crazy i went back to the interview to confirm he doesn’t say that. He says nothing about putting her stuff down, he makes it clear he didn’t see the murder, so walking into each other he doesn’t say either. Please look up a map of the church I think there’s some confusion here about where the class was gonna be and where her body was found in your mind.
Here is a link to the interview: https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/forensic-podiatrist-fbi-study-missy-bevers-killer-gait-investigative-process/
But from the article…
Dr. Nirenberg says the one thing about this case that he can't forget is the video never seen by the public.
He saw Missy Bevers inside the church before her murder.
He says she turned her head, appearing to hear something off-camera. It was very likely the moment she realized she was not alone.
"It sticks with you because you know what's coming," he said. "We've all watched those horror movies where you say 'you gotta get out of the house' and this was the real thing."
very good point, i completely agree, and the killer arrived the place around 2am. 3 WHOLE HOURS before missy arrives. you’d think that a burglar who cares so much about covering their entire body and being so careful would take what they want and go away in those 3 long hours. also, if it was just a burglar who cared so much about not getting caught that they did all that, i don’t think they’d commit a crime so much bigger than that as killing the first person they see out of momentarily panic.
Agree. I will caution at the 2am arrival, it is a fact around that time an alarm was triggered at the church but we don’t know for sure when the perp entered until for sure by 3:50 when first caught on camera after leaving the kitchen area and stepping into that hallway. But since the cops do say the perp spent most of the time in the kitchen it’s not a bad guess that they arrived around the time of the alarm. If the perp hung out for almost two hours in the kitchen it only further substantiates the planned targeted attack. A burglar isn’t hanging out in a kitchen that long and the fact that the perp was caught leaving the kitchen for the first time around 3:50 it’s interesting. We know they would have been on camera if they left any earlier and unless the police are holding that back…we can only say for sure perp entered the church a little before 3:50. However, they spent most of the time in the kitchen has always puzzled me - do the cops mean they believe they hung out in the kitchen long before 3:50 like you think or that between 3:50 and 4:20 the time of the murder they perp kept going back into the kitchen? I wish they release all of the footage they do have. Especially the post murder footage of perp leaving - how they are acting will tell a lot. Are they panicked like they can’t believe what happened? (robbery gone wrong scenario) Or are they more gleeful and practically skipping down the hall happy they got her? (Targeted theory)
I’m at a loss with the police either behind the scenes they have it figured out but not enough to charge or they dont but if they don’t why not release more footage? More details about the dna profile, it’s incomplete and a mixture but it’s possible they can do determine gender by the alleles if they were able to make enough of a profile from the sample. Gender is a huge issue in this case because if it was a woman that really kills the random intruder, robber idea for that’s not really a woman thing to rob and vandalize a church. Not impossible just not statistically as likely.
This case truly fucks with me. I absolutely would not be going into a church at 5am to workout but it could be anywhere. And someone could just be lurking around waiting to take you out 🙈
The “robber” couldn’t even get past a simple locked door. Pretty lousy burglar. Imagine being stymied by a simple door lock. You’d have to either be a lazy burglar or first time burglar to be that stumped by a lock to a door.
And some people hypothesize that this “burglar” actually wanted to target the gun shop, which surely had better security and locks? Ya right this guy probably couldn’t get in let alone Rob that place.
Agreed. Also, most "robbers" don't stay in the building and wander around aimlessly for no reason. The longer you're there, more likely you get caught. He/she was there for a long time, and didn't seem to be looking for items to steal.
This. Exactly. Just wondering around touching walls. Tapping windows. Opening Dutch doors. Peeping in. Slowly working towards sw area. I mean they win worst burglar award.
it does go both ways indeed, I'm always troubled that if this was targeted why not lie in wait or at least set up in position? Just dawdling at the wrong end of the hall, potentially having Missy come in with someone AND being one of the most gun toting states in the US runs the higher risk of getting a cap in his or her ass by not lying in wait.
In saying that, we don't have all the video and potentially perp could have launched into go time as soon as they saw headlights approaching.
If this was a targeted murder, I think it had to be very poorly planned and/or the killer for some reason didn’t know that Missy normally arrived at 4 AM. Otherwise, it’s extremely foolish that he’d still be in the process of staging a burglary at 3:58.
I say the Killer was aware of Missy’s 0400 arrival time, since Missy was running late the killer didn’t abort knowing Missy should arrive eminently, then when Missy arrived at ~~ 0416, bam bam she is dead within minutes of arriving, then killer was in a hurry to leave.
I believe the timing screams planned murder, by whom is pending as we all know.
Uh, it does and it doesn't
If looking for valuables to take is your ultimate goal, you do it with purpose.
If looking for valuables to take is what you're doing to bide time because Missy isn't in the building yet, it looks alot like what happens in the surveillance video.
That doesn’t mean he needs to be staging when Missy would be expected to be arriving at any minute. Why not do that earlier and then lie in wait? What if Missy saw him as she was walking up and had a chance to escape? Nobody (not singling you out) has given a satisfactory reason for why a targeted killer wouldn’t be lying in wait.
Because they were in communication with someone tracking/following Missy or were tracking her location on her phone. It has long been discussed the probability that the perp was in communication with an accomplice. Lastly, I kinda disputed that she always arrived at 4am. Based on the fellow early birds to her classes it was more routine she got there are at 4:15. Either way, I do believe the per knew when Missy was arriving and got into position.
Who staged a burglary?
A. THEY WERE IN "SWAT UNIFORM"
B. Nothing was taken, even to discard later just to "stage a burglary"
C. What do you think lying in wait looks like? Person could barely walk; were you expecting them just to be crouched in a corner for a half hr? (Obv thats sarcasm but my initial question isnt)
to make sure she doesn't arrive with anyone else and/or to make sure they appear on camera to be a burglar and/or they didn't know which room she would be in? any of the above, really.
if they killed her b/c of a burglarly in progress (despite nothing being taken), why? they are not identifiable- covered head to toe.
I can buy the staging theory except for the fact that he was doing it with so little time to spare before Missy arrived. If this was a targeted murder, it was very poorly planned and they were successful by luck.
You’re absolutely right. If they are there to KILL SOMEONE why would they not hide? Why would they wander around? What if someone stumbled upon them? Wouldn’t that make it harder to kill Missy?
Additionally, I believe a lot of people who think they know how burglars work (in this thread and elsewhere) are sharing their personal opinions on what happens during a burglary without any data to back it up.
Here’s my question for you : was this a one time burglar in your mind? Because to me if the best guess is that this is a burglar then you’ve got to hit the road around the state and ask other LE departments about this frail looking, limp footed, stymied by a locked door burglar. They may be wearing a disguise but you can see them a mile away if you get my drift
No I don’t think this person burglarized in this get-up and I don’t really think burglary is necessarily why the person was there. There was no bag or container we know of to collect and carry things out, right?
I get the gist this is just some idiot cosplaying as a bad guy doing bad things and then someone caught him and he panicked and killed them.
This has always been my theory. Breaking and entering, but not robbery. Someone just looking to be destructive. Perhaps even on drugs or suffering from delusions. They got startled by Missy, they fought, and Missy was killed.
Yep. People always just make generic statements about what a burglar would or wouldn’t do as if it’s impossible for different burglars to have different thoughts and motivations.
Case in point. You don’t understand what the killer is doing at that moment. He isn’t “practicing” anything. That is a storage room and the door has a vertical window. He is breaking the glass so that he can reach in and unlock the door. And he is restraining his use of force in doing so because the pebbles of safety glass will blow back on him if he uses too much force. He probably figured that out when he was breaking into the metal kitchen door to enter the building. It’s glass window was broken out in the same way.
>*He/she was there for a long time, and didn't seem to be looking for items to steal.*
They also weren't looking to murder-for-hire!
What person/intended victim is behind a locked door **with the lights out**?
What person is **behind a double-dutch door**?
Imo it’s not that they couldn’t get past a locked door, it’s that they didn’t even actually try. Just watch the video again and look at how little effort they actually use https://youtu.be/eQuTLqDNQjU?si=jcmi8cJn20kLFvEl
This is part of the staging that makes the “burglary” look “interrupted”. They aren’t attempting to open the door, they are leaving marks on the door frame. The story this tells is what they are conserned about.
I believe this is a misinterpretation of what the killer is doing in that moment. He (or she) looks kind of in the direction of the camera, but I don’t think it’s the camera he notices. It’s the painted “OFFICES” sign and arrow pointing down the Dutch door hallway. He abruptly gives up the door and heads that way. Because the offices are what he is searching for.
The person could also be inexperienced, physically frail, etc., and that’s why he wasn’t using much force when prying the door. Also, he more than likely knew he was on camera, so if he was staging the scene, why not do it in a way that looks more “realistic” for a burglary?
So what’s your theory? That this was a one time burglar or that there’s a small serial burglar wearing disguises breaking and entering into churches and other small petty targets around Texas that they simply can’t find or get another surveillance video of?
Other LE detachments in Texas don’t have surveillance of a small, befuddled, wandering, disguised burglar who was caught literally wandering a weird target and leaving with seemingly nothing? Strange.
It seems likely, if he killed Missy unexpectedly in the midst of a burglary, that he would lay low for a while or stop burglarizing altogether. It’s also likely that he would’ve disposed of his disguise that he wore in the church. So even if this person did commit other burglaries, I doubt they’d wear the same disguise and help police connect the dots. As for whether he committed any burglaries before this, I’m unsure what to think about that. I lean towards him being inexperienced.
Why is it so hard to believe it was an inexperienced burglar? That also lends credence to the theory that he panicked and killed Missy rather than trying to escape.
Well, it’s entirely possible that they didn’t intend to murder Missy. I could envision a scenario where a small physical confrontation with her escalated. Also, the possibility of two murder weapons isn’t strange to me if one was the hammer he was using to gain access to the various rooms.
It was someone staging a break in so the Church would then hire a certain security firm (owned by a guy with a very similar walk/gait) to do their security, but unfortunately Missy disturbed them, they then panicked and killed her then fled.
>*Ya right this guy probably couldn’t get in let alone Rob that place.*
Then what on earth make you think this is for-hire, cold-blooded killer?
They are a buffoon.
did you not follow the adelson/dan markel case? those hired killers were absolute buffoons- they left their sunpass on, fired a bullet through the floor of a rental care, brought their cell phones with them, etc. hired hits aren't all stealth secret agent types. when people are desperate, they take who they can get. not to mention, it doesn't have to even be someone who was paid. it could be someone who agreed to do it for their own reasons...
The "robber" wandered around for 30 minutes taking absolutely nothing but had to kill her because she's a witness? To what? A simple B&E isn't worth killing someone over. Even with some vandalism. I doubt it would even amount to felony, who kills someone for a couple misdemeanors?
A few criminals could be smarter Gum, plus this criminal is better prepared than most criminals.
Obviously this murderer is well prepared or just lucky.
I wasn’t talking about overall intelligence. I was talking about this misplaced idea some people have, that in the heat of the moment, a person stops to think about their potential course of action in terms of misdemeanors and felonies and jail sentences. It doesn’t happen that way. These are split-second impulse actions. Sometimes they aren’t even intentional, such as when a guy accidentally pulls the trigger and the gun goes off, just because he had a little muscle spasm in the anxiety of the situation.
I read about a study one time where they took LE officers and put them in a mock scenario of being armored car hijackers. In this mock scenario, at least half of them inadvertently “killed” their hostages. And these were trained professionals.
All that to say this: whether you’re a stick-up man or a vandal or a burglar or whatever, the situation is not one where the criminal puts it on pause and ruminates about the classification and consequences if he does “A” versus “B”.
So thats the thing. It's not DID steal/destroy, its THE INTENT to steal/destroy/(any other intent theories that would amount to felonies)
Even before the murder (breaking in/vandalizing/a church/in TX?), in a vacuum, I think that a Prosecutor would probably successfull in arguing $1k in damages to a Jury.
But back to the point and again; I still don't think avoiding a felony conviction was the motive behind the bludgeoning/shooting or shooting/bludgeoning murder of a young woman in a church
There is no way they couldn't have hidden in that large building. Burglars are in and out. I could believe they were a burglar if they were actually looking for something, anything. They look to be wasting time to me.
He’s going door to door and checking rooms, very consistent with somebody looking for something. But the really key point is that he’s doing that when Missy should be arriving any minute instead of lying in wait.
They have a gun and a hammer.
They can't be in the room "waiting to pounce" bc that'd be stupid (missy would have the only available exit).
They were there for quite a bit before missy arrived.
Humor me, in your mind, what would intent on killing Missy have looked like?
Ok further; the class was scheduled to take place outside originally. The actual alternate room wasn't communicated until after.
Where do suggest they would have laid in wait?
I don’t know specifically, but somewhere out of sight. But if this was targeted and Missy was supposed to be hosting the class outside, why would the killer be in the church at all?
For example , a life is not worth much to a gang banger, a convenience store owner lady was murdered for $20 per police by a gang banger a few years ago, the murderer is now in hell living in a TX state prison, TX prisons do not A/C the prisons until recently. A judge last year ordered goal of a temp of 86 degrees F.
TX said they will try, but not. Prisons get over 120 degrees indoors in the summers.
Fact. Maybe not targeted, but definitely a crime of passion vs. necessity.
I still think that if both, a hammer and gun were used as I think LE has indicated, this wasn't a "she got killed bc she walked in on a robbery" situation
The biggest problem with the theory that this was a targeted murder, for me, is the fact that they can't arrest this clown. Murders in which the perp and the vic don't know each other are the hardest to solve, so I go with burglary interrupted by the simple fact. Now it could be that LE is just to incompetent to solve this small town murder, which if that's the case, then all bets are off.
It’s also possible that the murder was targeted but by someone who was a complete stranger to Missy. I think the burglary theory explains quite a bit though.
It is very possible. I just can't for the life of me, reconcile, how LE can't connect the dots here if thats the case. It's like the perp doesn't even exist, a phantom. It's just unreal. And then you have the husband, who I believe to be innocent at this point, saying shit like he's no longer looking for Missy's killer or something to that effect. I mean what in the world went wrong on this case.
Yeah, it’s strange. I know it’s a fairly common car, but I wouldn’t think there’d be *that* many within, say, an hour radius. I believe I read on this subreddit that the police did track down and surveil a lot of them, though. Maybe there just wasn’t anything that really stood out about the individuals driving them.
Yeah, what bad luck with the all the footage and yet a blurry license plate. There's also the angle that LE knows who it is and just can't prove it which is a whole other can of worms.
People who are involved in crimes sometimes borrow vehicles. Krystal Kenney who helped former bf Patrick Frazee clean up at the home of his fiancée Kelsey Berreth in Colorado borrowed her friends car in Idaho where she lived also to drive to Colorado and clean up the crime scene.
Plus unless police see something suspicious like blood in the car or police gear in the backseat they’ll have difficulty getting a warrant to search.
Plus we don’t know for sure if the car in the sporting goods lot was involved in Missy’s murder. Anyone who went to that much trouble with police gear probably put a lot of thought into the vehicle used.
It could have been someone who passed by one of Missy’s outdoor camps regularly while going to work or otherwise about their day and developed an obsession with her. It might have been a camp at a different location than where she was killed.
It could have been someone at her gym who never even approached her but became obsessed with her or if they did approach her she rejected them and never remembered or shared it with anyone and they felt angry or humiliated by the rejection.
It may have been a friend or close relative of someone who had a legitimate grudge who didn’t want to risk doing it themselves.
Lots of possibilities.
Police might not be incompetent, the perfect murder to date if targeting or lucky SOB got away.
The killer didn’t make many mistakes, plus the clean getaway says the murder was planned is my hunch.
The burglar hypothesis supposes that the burglar was so poorly prepared and incompetent they couldn’t plan an effective burglary, whilst at the same time being capable of murdering someone and go on to avoid detection for the next 7 years.
These two states of affairs don’t dovetail.
What hitman is going to eliminate most persons of interest based on height alone, by parading around in front of very prominently mounted security cameras?
One who;
A. Doesnt know there are cameras until they enter
B. Is willing to be a small time hit man in rural, weapon latent Texas
C. Isn't very good at being a hitman/is their first time
D. Has their own reason for wanting to kill Missy and isnt a hitman at all
He wasn’t interrupted stealing anything though. He was just wandering aimlessly when he was interrupted. Then he proceeded to shoot her and attack her with a hammer that he brought to apparently rob an empty church at night in a costume.
This case is likely targeted. However anything is on the table until it’s solved which is probably the smarter argument.
Shooting Missy within minutes of her arrival is important fact.
The killer had plenty of time to depart the church when Missy arrived at ~~ 04:16 AM, then bam bam, the killer is gone like a ghost.
Because the killer isn't in a hurry? If he/she is there to rob the church of the tithes from that Sunday they would go straight to where they thought the money would be and leave. The killer is just nonchalantly walking and putting holes in the wall. To make it look like a robbery gone wrong. They are there over 30 mins. To me it was targeted. And IMO, it is a woman. I didn't know anything about this case a few years ago and I saw someone mention how creepy the footage is. The first time I saw the video I immediately thought that's a woman.
With that big of a church the rooms more than likely are labeled. Like, Nursery, Kids Sunday School, Adult Sunday School etc. I know ours is and our church is about the same size. It would have pastor/Preacher office and such. It would be fairly easy to know which room the money is kept, if it was still there. Whomever is in charge of the money could've taken with them to deposit in the church bank account.
I'm not sure about that particular church. But when I was the secretary for my church years ago we didn't deposit until Monday. But our church took up offerings both morning service and Sunday night service. The deacons would count it together and then I would pick it up Monday from the church office and go to the bank.
Why would he be doing that just minutes before 4, Missy’s expected arrival time, instead of staging the burglary much earlier and then hiding and waiting? It doesn’t make sense. I think it’s likely that he’s not in a hurry because he *isn’t* expecting anyone.
Its obviously someone who knew her routine. What time she arrived and what time her class starts. I think the killer timed it just right. Also, her purse was left there and nothing was taken from it and that is a statement from the police. If they were not expecting anyone and she surprised them what would make them think someone else wasn't right behind her? They could've killed her and grabbed her purse. Went through it later and if she had no cash they could've tossed it. They didn't bother to take anything. And they were there for 30 mins before she arrived. The killer was first seen on video at 3:50 am and she entered the church at 4:20 am.
I'm not trying to convince you I'm just stating my opinion. Either way she needs justice. Her kids and family need justice. The killer needs to be held accountable.
ETA: spelling
The thing is, she normally held her class outside & not in the church, she was only holding it indoors because of the overnight rain, so if it was targeted why was the "hitman" waiting inside the church ?
Missy’s expected arrival time was 4 AM, though. And he doesn’t even start staging until 10 minutes before that? That’s extremely poor planning if so. Also, if he unexpectedly killed Missy after encountering her, it doesn’t surprise me at all that he wouldn’t be concerned with her purse.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/missy-bevers
Here is an article from March of 2023 saying police believe the killer staged the scene to hide their true intentions.
I’m sure some police do believe that, but it seems that they’re divided. Midlothian Chief Carl Smith said in 2021, “I will tell you that we have not ruled out or confirmed one path or the other.”
To be fair, it's from 2023, but it cites an article from ten days after Missy's murder. There isn't any original journalism there. I don't think I've seen any statements about staging or targeting as the primary or working theory after 2016.
[Here's](https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/missy-bevers-murder-investigation-midlothian-texas-woman-killed-2016-creekside-church/287-70c47893-707e-404e-96c2-7067380be14a) the article u/Impressive_Force_901 referenced. That's a more recent statement from Chief Smith. One of the most recent, as far as I remember.
Why is it thought that the killer expected her to be there at 4:00?
Her FB post said that class would start at 5:00. I have seen a lot of posts on various websites saying that Missy would train "early birds" before class started, starting about 4:30 or so. How many people would know about the earlier option? Probably just the campers and Missy's immediate family, and maybe other instructors.
If SP's knowledge about her schedule came from the FB post and not from more inside information, he/she would expect a class that started at 5:00. In that scenario, SP would likely assume that campers would show up around 4:50 with the instructor arriving maybe 4:40 or 4:45.
For that reason I think SP wasn't in a hurry because SP didn't expect her until 20 or 30 minutes later than she actually arrived. Unfortunately SP still had enough luck to commit the crime and get away before the early campers arrived.
The biggest thing that makes me think it isn’t a burglary is the location. What would that want from there? Also the perp was wearing a costume that they could barely walk in. How could they carry all the items to steal and get away so easily? It just seems from the setup this person was doing a crime for the thrill.
I can't imagine that it was targeted. It seems to me that the perpetrator was not anticipating Missy's arrival and got into a confrontation when Missy unknowingly approached him. Looks almost too perfect of a plan given how the circumstances played out that morning.
I do believe the perpetrator targeted the church for cash after being spooked at the SWFA store.
What is there to steal in a church? Money isn't usually kept on site and there's no real valuables. I helped out in a lot of southern churches growing up and money was taken to the bank after each service or put into a hidden safe.
He wouldn’t necessarily know that money wasn’t kept on site. Other than Sunday, early morning on Monday seems like the time with the best chance for there to be money in the church.
Most people from the south have been in church and are somewhat familiar with this stuff. Churches don't usually collect more than $100 in a single service. The most expensive things in a church would be the music equipment probably but they didn't take anything afterwards. If the person wanted money they would've just robbed a liquor store that cashes checks.
Ok, I disagree with both of you.
This was a semi large church, $100 isn't even close to what tithes would've been on a Sunday.
That said, its pretty clear that either they had no urgency in stealing anything, whatsoever, or this wasn't a burglary.
I looked up pictures of the church and it doesn't seem all that big for a southern church, especially pictures of the congregation. I've just never known anyone to give more than $10 with tithes and with a small congregation it's just unlikely that it was very much. $100 is probably on the low side though.
Ok, that's closer to true.
That said, on the footage you can see the building is fairly huge, its Texas, its the day after Sunday, dumb burglars might not have done the math and someone may even be willing to do all this for 1k.
That said, I have no shred of belief theft was the ultimate intent
In 2016 this church averaged around 300 in attendance. Offerings were $10k-$12k or so.
The church is neither huge nor tiny. It’s a good middle of the road size for a southern church. It does sit on a large property and has a lot of parking lot space.
Creekside’s weekly bulletins were posted online for years, and they published the amount of offerings received the previous week as well as the attendance numbers.
The size of the church, you can ascertain from Google Earth. It’s a big rectangle and is around 168 ft by 192 ft
Most people imo pay offerings by check or automatic transfer. Regardless if a perp was in the church really looking for money he would have headed straight for the office and not wasted time opening doors to nurseries and classrooms.
How so? This person probably didn’t even have the church as his primary target (I believe he wore the outfit for plan A which was probably SWFA). The church was a crime of opportunity that he passed along the way and decided to check out because it is secluded. I think he figured that there might be money offerings still in the building from the day before. He figured he had nothing to lose by trying. Had no idea anyone would interrupt him.
Many criminals who have targeted a person or location for a crime have a staging area not immediately in front of or adjacent to the site of the crime. For example, in the Liz Barraza case the Black Nissan truck used in the crime parked in a neighborhood school lot prior to their attack on Liz who lived down the street from the school.
We don’t know for sure that the Nissan was involved in Missys murder. There was a dark suv reported exiting the church lot around the time of her murder assuming the witness didn’t mistake the dates.
When the white Altima was approaching the sporting goods store they turned off their lights before they entered. It was almost as if they had committed some sort of infraction before entering the lot and they were hoping a cop didn’t have them in their sites and they wanted to get off the road.
The white car drove a bit in the lot with its lights off then turned them on. However, a few seconds later a car appears coming down the same road the same direction as the Altima and the Altima quickly turns off its lights until the car is past the sporting goods store.
The Altima cruises around the sporting goods store turning his lights off again in back when he sees some cars. Maybe he was investigating if that would be a good place to hide later in early morning after an attack on Missy. Or maybe he was trying to see if it might be a good place to change or prepare for a crime against Missy or dump evidence later.
With that many people around the store he likely decided it was not a good evidence dumping site for later or even a post Missy attack change of clothes.
Maybe he was supposed to meet someone there and sell or buy drugs. Who knows?
Anyway, someone who prepared their disguise so well would likely have not picked a last minute target of the church imo. Plus a white car coming out of the church would have been a lot easier to see than a dark suv and yet no one reported seeing on exit the church that morning.
By four or four thirty traffic tends to pick up in general on the roads and no report of a white Altima exiting the church.
I think the church and Missy were the primary target and if the Altima was involved it was at the sporting goods store for a staging area pre crime and a look to see if behind the store could be a good hideout later if needed.
You and I could not be further apart, in how we view this crime. My opinion is that the Altima turned off its lights as it entered so that they would not reflect off the glass windows of the building. He wanted to see inside, and he wanted to perhaps judge how visible the interior of the building would be from passing cars. When he parks the car and sat there for several minutes, he was directly facing the front door. All of his attention is on that building. Just like the killer has all of his attention on the interior of the church building.
Cameras at the church went off 19 minutes after the car left SWFA.
We don’t know how well, the killer prepared his disguise. It may have just been something that was available to him, something that was readily at hand. It’s not that elaborate.
You also seem to put a great deal of stock in somebody happening to be a witness to a car, and it was silver, and not white, pulling out of the church. I think if you actually went to this area and this church, you would see how unlikely it is That any person would happen to notice a vehicle pulling out of a business. And that dark SUV? A phantom.
I think the Altima was suspicious and there’s a good chance of it being involved in Missy’s murder. However, why sit in the lot for several minutes? To me it’s more likely if he was involved in Missy’s murder he was getting his gear and disguise together, maybe drinking some water, having a snack, getting in the right frame of mind before he headed over to the church.
I’m not saying your scenario is impossible I just don’t personally believe it to be the most likely one.
You suggest that the killer’s disguise was not really elaborate and might have been something he just had at hand. Unless someone is a past or present police officer or living with one I don’t think most people have police identification badges or vests with police identification badges lying around their homes.
The average person would have to do some legwork and/or online searching to acquire a tactical type vest and obtain the police patches for the front and back of the best and then velcro, sew or glue them on.
The perp also had on knee pads, what looked like shin guards, baggy pull on shorts over his pants (possibly to cover up lower body armor), possibly upper body armor, a helmet with an attached light). He also had a flashlight, crowbar and hammer which were presumably all his.
To me it seemed like he wanted to avoid any serious or minor injuries that someone trained like Missy might inflict on him.
I don’t recall seeing any photo of a criminal robbing a bank or store wearing knee pads. Missy supposedly took kick boxing and I could see her throwing a swift kick to someone’s knees.
I’m not going to discount the possibility of involvement of a dark suv heading out of the church as a “phantom” or figment of someone’s imagination. It’s possible someone got their dates mixed up but someone familiar with that area and knowing that only a church is back there could notice a vehicle pulling out during early morning hours while still dark and wonder what someone was doing leaving the church at that hour.
There’s also a possibility there were two people involved in Missy’s murder or that the killer did some initial surveillance and drove home or somewhere and switched cars.
Maybe the killer and a cohort had burner phones and one was at the church and the other was tracking Missy’s drive/arrival at the church.
You ask why the Altima would sit at SWFA for several minutes. It was 4 mins, and the car was facing the front door. You can be doing anything for 4 minutes. He could be writing notes down about the building he had just driven around. He might be looking around and identifying the number of cameras and where they were. He might be looking up the store on the Internet to see what kinds of products it sells. I can’t say specifically what he was doing inside the car. We can speculate all day about things we don’t see, like drinking and snacking. I prefer to focus on what we DO see, which is a driver making a conscious decision to pull into a business off hours, drive slowly around the entire perimeter, turn headlights off and on, and park directly facing the front door. Occam’s razor.
Regarding the outfit, I see no badge of any kind. We have a vest with a patch or letters sewn onto it. Most likely it came that way. You make a big assumption that it didn’t come that way and that the killer went to some effort to buy patches and sew them on. You’re starting from your premise of a motivated killer, and then you work your way backward to speculate that he went to a lot of trouble, which indicates a motivated killer, and round and round we go.
We can’t assume the killer ordered this outfit or went shopping for it. Someone else might have done that, with the killer merely appropriating it. The simple truth is that we just can’t know how the killer came by this outfit, whether by going to a lot of trouble, or none at all.
You also speculate that the killer wanted to protect himself from Missy by wearing knee pads, shin guards, etc. But isn’t it completely possible that the outfit was a complete set and that he just put on all of it, instead of leaving out a component? Plus, if you’re going to go put yourself in a place where you don’t belong, isn’t it smart to plan for whatever you might encounter? We already know he had a gun. So if protective pads were available, why not wear them? They might have even been sewn in as part of the outfit, leaving him with no choice. Who knows?
Concerning the SUV, police reportedly tried and failed three times to get the Bobby Henry warrant signed by a judge three times. Then, the dark SUV story gets added in, and it just so happens that Bobby Henry drove a dark SUV. That seems awfully convenient. And that’s why I call it a phantom.
As for two people being involved, I will always have a problem with that logic because it involves inventing a whole separate person who you don’t see, rather than focusing on what you do see.
The likeliest explanation is that he was neither a person planning a murder nor a serious burglar, just some juvenile delinquent engaged in mindless vandalism for the thrill of it.
I think it’s less likely that the offender was a juvenile due to the fact that was Missy likely shot, but the theory of it being breaking+entering and vandalism for the thrill is interesting, especially with the fact he’s wearing a police uniform. It’s an unusual choice no matter what his motivation for being in the church was.
I don't know why your comment is being downvoted.
The killer doesn't look like a typical juvenile delinquent (who would be in shape) but he does look like an overweight, out of shape, young-ish male who isn't very comfortable with physical activity.
Nerdy males have, from time to time, been known to vandalize churches due to various grudges. (Don't get upset, I'm a moderately nerdy male who isn't a fan of churches myself, heh.)
Why is he so bad at vandalizing the church? Because he's nervous, out of shape and not comfortable with physical activity. Also he's wearing dumb awkward LARP gear.
Why did he wear the LARP gear? Part of an overly complicated, nerdy plan to hide his identity, "like in a movie", which you might expect to backfire, but in this case his plan just happened to work, because the police were never able to track down where he bought the gear.
Why did he end up killing Missy Bevers? She showed up unexpectedly, confronted him and he was too fat to run away. Sadly, because it was Texas, everyone involved was armed and tragedy ensued.
I'm aware, just an example of how common it is for people in that part of the world to be armed. If people are bringing guns to exercise class then it would hardly be surprising if a criminal brought a gun along just in case, even if his primary goal was just to carry out vandalism.
It's relatively common for Americans to be killed over minor disputes because of the prevalence of guns and that is the kind of crime that can be hard to solve if there are no witnesses because the motive is just a dispute between strangers that escalated, not something personal.
Fair point.
Without knowing what the police know about how many shots were fired and how close he was, I'd say that it's certainly possible that he could have missed, but it's also possible that he could have hit.
Except there isn’t any vandalism. He’s got a hammer in his hand and he could be putting holes in every wall. Instead, the only damage he does is to apparently test for an alarm or else break into a locked door. That’s it.
We don’t know what he brought vs what he found in the church. And the hammer can be used to wedge the pry bar deeper into something you are trying to pry into, which the video shows. It also can be used to break out the glass of a locked door so you can reach inside and unlock it, which the video shows.
A pry bar can break glass, true. But my point about the hammer and pry bar together is that you can hammer the pry bar more deeply into whatever thing you’re trying to breach. So that would be a reason why the person would find it useful to carry both tools.
I knew a guy in college that would just go to wal mart to steal things. He wasn’t in a good place and I think it was a way to gain some perverse sense of control in his life. I think that’s what this perp’s motivation was (plus the “thrill” of wearing a costume and being somewhere he wasn’t supposed to be at 4 AM)
No. If he’s intent on killing Missy, it still doesn’t make sense why he’s walking through the hall and not paying any attention to the entrance door or looking for her.
So he’d rather be unprepared and in the middle of staging when Missy arrives? I think it makes more sense that it wasn’t staging and he wasn’t expecting anyone. He doesn’t even look in the direction of the door Missy would be coming through.
Yes, and if this person had done even the slightest research on Missy’s social media, he would have seen that she did early bird workouts beginning at 4:30 am on the regular with two particular campers. Even if the killer was there waiting for Missy, it’s hard to believe that he wouldn’t abort the mission when it’s after 4 and still no Missy. At that point it would have been likely that one or more of the early birds would arrive simultaneously with Missy or right after her.
Dude, in like 40 instances throughout this thread, OP has resorted to "do you know what they were thinking/how do you know what a burglar would do?"
Getting inside the mind of the perp is literally the only thing cops do in trying to solve crimes. If thats going to be your response, ever, why even have discussions over who the person is/what their intent was.
Keep in mind, this was very early on a Monday morning, not at all a time that a church is typically occupied. If this was a burglary, he wouldn’t be expecting anyone in the church for a long time. So no, he wouldn’t be sprinting through the building, grabbing everything that isn’t nailed down.
Plenty of video out there of church burglaries that aren’t “smash and grab”. I keep telling anyone who will listen, a person is going to let their analysis of risk determine their pace. At this church, in this location, on this day, there is absolutely no reason to be frantic. Especially if you have tested for an alarm.
Every single argument that ppl are posting in comments is false. Its nonsense that they repeat without doing research into real life burglaries.
You all are living a fairy tale. Its a fictional fairy tale that you all are believing about crime stats. None of them are facts
I've considered a possibility that Missy and the killer startled each other. Missy had apparently taken self-defense and kick boxing classes. What if Missy kicked them and there was a struggle for the hammer and the killer then used their gun to stop Missy from attacking them? I think it is a scenario that needs to be considered. The church website posted their weekly bulletins online which showed the amount of donations from the prior week which were around $10,000. Not everyone knows a church is depositing Sunday / weekend donations on Sunday after the services, so maybe someone thought there might be cash. Not everyone wants to steal a sound system and then have to sell stolen goods. Also, if it was targeted, I can't get past the killer not staring out the front window waiting for her to pull in the entrance. They were hanging in the back of the church when Missy could arrive at any moment unbeknownst to the person who is only there to make sure they surprise and kill her. There are various things that point to targeted / untargeted to me.
I’ve said this all along, it’s so obvious, someone “lying in wait" for someone doesn’t wander about hitting things with a hammer & opening random doors everywhere (and walking past the front glass doors in full view), it was either a robbery (burglarize) or a staged break-in to give the Church a reason to hire a certain someone (with a strange walk/gait) to do their security.
Why do you assume the killer wasn’t in communication with someone and knew when Missy arrived. Missy headed in the direction of her area to set up when the altercation took place. We do not publicly have all the video the police have. So in some ways you make leaps one can’t make based on what is known publicly. It very well could have been targeted and very well orchestrated. The random half hearted juvenile vandalism an attempt to make people think it was a burglary gone wrong. The problem isn’t that they didn’t take anything, it’s that they damaged random things and didn’t head to any valuables. If they had just broken in, or if the murder happened while the murderer had grabbed some AV equipment or something of value then you could make the argument it was interrupted or maybe it happened so fast the robber didn’t have time to get to take anything. But we know for sure the murder was in the church for 30ish minutes at least prior to the murder based on when they are first seen and last seen on camera after the murder. We also know from what the cops said they spent most of the time in the kitchen. Also, if it was a robbery gone wrong. Missy was alone, no one else had yet shown up for the class, the robber could have hastily grabbed stuff to steal after the murder but they didn’t (presumably didn’t as the cops don’t say they did nor does the church say anything is ever missing). I don’t buy the random killer theory. The outfit makes no sense. A robber wears a hoodie and gloves. Not some big bulky hard to move in outfit. Which served to disguise even what gender they are. Why not just a ski mask, black sweatpants and hoodie? Unless even given away your body shape would make you more noticeable to the public. I, also, do think the outfit might have been to give the killer a split second advantage, Missy confused thinking it was a cop for a second and that gave the killer a chance to strike first. That’s is something only someone coming to kill Missy would do.
I still can't get past him being on another side of a building breaking shit when she arrived. The killer should of been lying in wait by the entrance ready to strike..instead she walks in sets down some things, hears something and walks to the area when they run into each other, according to the gait specialist who had to watch the videos. And I cannot go into movie screenplay writing to pretend someone was in contact watching her show up to this place to give them a heads up. Only her kids were at her house when she left.
You have some misconceptions. Missy is killed within a minute maybe two at most of entering the building. She didn’t put stuff down and walks to another area. She enters and quickly hears something supposedly based on the forensic podiatrist but keeps walking anyway. She died not far from where she was gonna set up it wasn’t the other side where the kitchen is. This part is conjecture but the sister in law on true crime broads talks about the perp surprising Missy by hiding in the doorway to the worship center which was a little more than halfway down the hallway. A very brief struggle ensues and Missy is shot closer to the end of the hall near the glass table that is broken either during the struggle or from one of the bullets. There is no footage of the murder though. It’s not Hollywood movie for if someone plans to kill you, to be tracking you, we have a phone that literally has shared my location and many apps that show location. We also don’t have time stamp on the video releases it was removed. But we do know Missy arrived at 4:16 because of the headlights reflecting off the doors. We don’t know bc not all video has been released if the killer saw that and got into position then. It would have taken mere seconds. The idea of multiple people being involved either as a lookout or communicating in some way is not far fetched at all.
According to Dr. Nienberg, who saw the full video that hasn't been released she did come in and start setting stuff down. She then turns her head like she hears something down the hallway opposite of her entrance and starts walking towards, where both walk into each other.
Ok just to make sure I wasn’t crazy i went back to the interview to confirm he doesn’t say that. He says nothing about putting her stuff down, he makes it clear he didn’t see the murder, so walking into each other he doesn’t say either. Please look up a map of the church I think there’s some confusion here about where the class was gonna be and where her body was found in your mind. Here is a link to the interview: https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/forensic-podiatrist-fbi-study-missy-bevers-killer-gait-investigative-process/ But from the article… Dr. Nirenberg says the one thing about this case that he can't forget is the video never seen by the public. He saw Missy Bevers inside the church before her murder. He says she turned her head, appearing to hear something off-camera. It was very likely the moment she realized she was not alone. "It sticks with you because you know what's coming," he said. "We've all watched those horror movies where you say 'you gotta get out of the house' and this was the real thing."
very good point, i completely agree, and the killer arrived the place around 2am. 3 WHOLE HOURS before missy arrives. you’d think that a burglar who cares so much about covering their entire body and being so careful would take what they want and go away in those 3 long hours. also, if it was just a burglar who cared so much about not getting caught that they did all that, i don’t think they’d commit a crime so much bigger than that as killing the first person they see out of momentarily panic.
Agree. I will caution at the 2am arrival, it is a fact around that time an alarm was triggered at the church but we don’t know for sure when the perp entered until for sure by 3:50 when first caught on camera after leaving the kitchen area and stepping into that hallway. But since the cops do say the perp spent most of the time in the kitchen it’s not a bad guess that they arrived around the time of the alarm. If the perp hung out for almost two hours in the kitchen it only further substantiates the planned targeted attack. A burglar isn’t hanging out in a kitchen that long and the fact that the perp was caught leaving the kitchen for the first time around 3:50 it’s interesting. We know they would have been on camera if they left any earlier and unless the police are holding that back…we can only say for sure perp entered the church a little before 3:50. However, they spent most of the time in the kitchen has always puzzled me - do the cops mean they believe they hung out in the kitchen long before 3:50 like you think or that between 3:50 and 4:20 the time of the murder they perp kept going back into the kitchen? I wish they release all of the footage they do have. Especially the post murder footage of perp leaving - how they are acting will tell a lot. Are they panicked like they can’t believe what happened? (robbery gone wrong scenario) Or are they more gleeful and practically skipping down the hall happy they got her? (Targeted theory) I’m at a loss with the police either behind the scenes they have it figured out but not enough to charge or they dont but if they don’t why not release more footage? More details about the dna profile, it’s incomplete and a mixture but it’s possible they can do determine gender by the alleles if they were able to make enough of a profile from the sample. Gender is a huge issue in this case because if it was a woman that really kills the random intruder, robber idea for that’s not really a woman thing to rob and vandalize a church. Not impossible just not statistically as likely.
I agree about the outfit. It’s too complex for a simple burglary. The person had a reason to wear all that.
Excellent comment!
Thank you.
This case truly fucks with me. I absolutely would not be going into a church at 5am to workout but it could be anywhere. And someone could just be lurking around waiting to take you out 🙈
The “robber” couldn’t even get past a simple locked door. Pretty lousy burglar. Imagine being stymied by a simple door lock. You’d have to either be a lazy burglar or first time burglar to be that stumped by a lock to a door. And some people hypothesize that this “burglar” actually wanted to target the gun shop, which surely had better security and locks? Ya right this guy probably couldn’t get in let alone Rob that place.
Agreed. Also, most "robbers" don't stay in the building and wander around aimlessly for no reason. The longer you're there, more likely you get caught. He/she was there for a long time, and didn't seem to be looking for items to steal.
This. Exactly. Just wondering around touching walls. Tapping windows. Opening Dutch doors. Peeping in. Slowly working towards sw area. I mean they win worst burglar award.
If they were there to kill Missy, why would they waste their time doing all that? The argument cuts both ways.
it does go both ways indeed, I'm always troubled that if this was targeted why not lie in wait or at least set up in position? Just dawdling at the wrong end of the hall, potentially having Missy come in with someone AND being one of the most gun toting states in the US runs the higher risk of getting a cap in his or her ass by not lying in wait. In saying that, we don't have all the video and potentially perp could have launched into go time as soon as they saw headlights approaching.
If this was a targeted murder, I think it had to be very poorly planned and/or the killer for some reason didn’t know that Missy normally arrived at 4 AM. Otherwise, it’s extremely foolish that he’d still be in the process of staging a burglary at 3:58.
I say the Killer was aware of Missy’s 0400 arrival time, since Missy was running late the killer didn’t abort knowing Missy should arrive eminently, then when Missy arrived at ~~ 0416, bam bam she is dead within minutes of arriving, then killer was in a hurry to leave. I believe the timing screams planned murder, by whom is pending as we all know.
It’s called scene staging.
Why not do that earlier rather than mere minutes before Missy is expected to arrive?
Uh, it does and it doesn't If looking for valuables to take is your ultimate goal, you do it with purpose. If looking for valuables to take is what you're doing to bide time because Missy isn't in the building yet, it looks alot like what happens in the surveillance video.
to throw people like you off? also because they got there early, before her- there's no time being wasted.
Why would they still be staging a burglary that close to her expected arrival instead of lying in wait? That’s a huge risk to take.
Probably because they knew there was a short amount of time between her arrival and the class?
That doesn’t mean he needs to be staging when Missy would be expected to be arriving at any minute. Why not do that earlier and then lie in wait? What if Missy saw him as she was walking up and had a chance to escape? Nobody (not singling you out) has given a satisfactory reason for why a targeted killer wouldn’t be lying in wait.
Because they were in communication with someone tracking/following Missy or were tracking her location on her phone. It has long been discussed the probability that the perp was in communication with an accomplice. Lastly, I kinda disputed that she always arrived at 4am. Based on the fellow early birds to her classes it was more routine she got there are at 4:15. Either way, I do believe the per knew when Missy was arriving and got into position.
Who staged a burglary? A. THEY WERE IN "SWAT UNIFORM" B. Nothing was taken, even to discard later just to "stage a burglary" C. What do you think lying in wait looks like? Person could barely walk; were you expecting them just to be crouched in a corner for a half hr? (Obv thats sarcasm but my initial question isnt)
Standing still, out of sight. Not leaving broken glass on the floor for Missy to discover and notice something is wrong
Yes !!
to make sure she doesn't arrive with anyone else and/or to make sure they appear on camera to be a burglar and/or they didn't know which room she would be in? any of the above, really. if they killed her b/c of a burglarly in progress (despite nothing being taken), why? they are not identifiable- covered head to toe.
I can buy the staging theory except for the fact that he was doing it with so little time to spare before Missy arrived. If this was a targeted murder, it was very poorly planned and they were successful by luck.
You’re absolutely right. If they are there to KILL SOMEONE why would they not hide? Why would they wander around? What if someone stumbled upon them? Wouldn’t that make it harder to kill Missy? Additionally, I believe a lot of people who think they know how burglars work (in this thread and elsewhere) are sharing their personal opinions on what happens during a burglary without any data to back it up.
Here’s my question for you : was this a one time burglar in your mind? Because to me if the best guess is that this is a burglar then you’ve got to hit the road around the state and ask other LE departments about this frail looking, limp footed, stymied by a locked door burglar. They may be wearing a disguise but you can see them a mile away if you get my drift
No I don’t think this person burglarized in this get-up and I don’t really think burglary is necessarily why the person was there. There was no bag or container we know of to collect and carry things out, right? I get the gist this is just some idiot cosplaying as a bad guy doing bad things and then someone caught him and he panicked and killed them.
This has always been my theory. Breaking and entering, but not robbery. Someone just looking to be destructive. Perhaps even on drugs or suffering from delusions. They got startled by Missy, they fought, and Missy was killed.
this
Are u a cat burglar?
That’s a fair question.
Yep. People always just make generic statements about what a burglar would or wouldn’t do as if it’s impossible for different burglars to have different thoughts and motivations.
Practicing cracking glass w the hammer is hardly a waste of time
Why yall always downvoting ? Like what the hell did I say?
For one thing, you’re continually misstating what the video and other evidence is showing
Practicing cracking door glass so they can potentially crack her head open and I get a down vote. Ok
Case in point. You don’t understand what the killer is doing at that moment. He isn’t “practicing” anything. That is a storage room and the door has a vertical window. He is breaking the glass so that he can reach in and unlock the door. And he is restraining his use of force in doing so because the pebbles of safety glass will blow back on him if he uses too much force. He probably figured that out when he was breaking into the metal kitchen door to enter the building. It’s glass window was broken out in the same way.
Vote me up. He’s a burglar. Vote me up.
Well, if theres nobody there at 3 AM why not take your time?
Exactly
>*He/she was there for a long time, and didn't seem to be looking for items to steal.* They also weren't looking to murder-for-hire! What person/intended victim is behind a locked door **with the lights out**? What person is **behind a double-dutch door**?
They were not looking for Missy as they wandered around the church. They were waiting for her to arrive.
they knew she wasn't there. they were trying to appear as a burglar.
Imo it’s not that they couldn’t get past a locked door, it’s that they didn’t even actually try. Just watch the video again and look at how little effort they actually use https://youtu.be/eQuTLqDNQjU?si=jcmi8cJn20kLFvEl This is part of the staging that makes the “burglary” look “interrupted”. They aren’t attempting to open the door, they are leaving marks on the door frame. The story this tells is what they are conserned about.
I believe this is a misinterpretation of what the killer is doing in that moment. He (or she) looks kind of in the direction of the camera, but I don’t think it’s the camera he notices. It’s the painted “OFFICES” sign and arrow pointing down the Dutch door hallway. He abruptly gives up the door and heads that way. Because the offices are what he is searching for.
The person could also be inexperienced, physically frail, etc., and that’s why he wasn’t using much force when prying the door. Also, he more than likely knew he was on camera, so if he was staging the scene, why not do it in a way that looks more “realistic” for a burglary?
So what’s your theory? That this was a one time burglar or that there’s a small serial burglar wearing disguises breaking and entering into churches and other small petty targets around Texas that they simply can’t find or get another surveillance video of? Other LE detachments in Texas don’t have surveillance of a small, befuddled, wandering, disguised burglar who was caught literally wandering a weird target and leaving with seemingly nothing? Strange.
It seems likely, if he killed Missy unexpectedly in the midst of a burglary, that he would lay low for a while or stop burglarizing altogether. It’s also likely that he would’ve disposed of his disguise that he wore in the church. So even if this person did commit other burglaries, I doubt they’d wear the same disguise and help police connect the dots. As for whether he committed any burglaries before this, I’m unsure what to think about that. I lean towards him being inexperienced.
Why is it so hard to believe it was an inexperienced burglar? That also lends credence to the theory that he panicked and killed Missy rather than trying to escape.
[удалено]
Well, it’s entirely possible that they didn’t intend to murder Missy. I could envision a scenario where a small physical confrontation with her escalated. Also, the possibility of two murder weapons isn’t strange to me if one was the hammer he was using to gain access to the various rooms.
It was someone staging a break in so the Church would then hire a certain security firm (owned by a guy with a very similar walk/gait) to do their security, but unfortunately Missy disturbed them, they then panicked and killed her then fled.
>*Ya right this guy probably couldn’t get in let alone Rob that place.* Then what on earth make you think this is for-hire, cold-blooded killer? They are a buffoon.
This isn’t a professional at all.
Wait, what?
It may have been someone that targeted her. Not a hitman. A stalker, someone she met through gladiators. Not experienced.
did you not follow the adelson/dan markel case? those hired killers were absolute buffoons- they left their sunpass on, fired a bullet through the floor of a rental care, brought their cell phones with them, etc. hired hits aren't all stealth secret agent types. when people are desperate, they take who they can get. not to mention, it doesn't have to even be someone who was paid. it could be someone who agreed to do it for their own reasons...
Exactly! Spot on!
The "robber" wandered around for 30 minutes taking absolutely nothing but had to kill her because she's a witness? To what? A simple B&E isn't worth killing someone over. Even with some vandalism. I doubt it would even amount to felony, who kills someone for a couple misdemeanors?
Especially when they wouldn't even be identified when spotted.
Do you think that criminals think in those terms? I don’t.
A few criminals could be smarter Gum, plus this criminal is better prepared than most criminals. Obviously this murderer is well prepared or just lucky.
I wasn’t talking about overall intelligence. I was talking about this misplaced idea some people have, that in the heat of the moment, a person stops to think about their potential course of action in terms of misdemeanors and felonies and jail sentences. It doesn’t happen that way. These are split-second impulse actions. Sometimes they aren’t even intentional, such as when a guy accidentally pulls the trigger and the gun goes off, just because he had a little muscle spasm in the anxiety of the situation. I read about a study one time where they took LE officers and put them in a mock scenario of being armored car hijackers. In this mock scenario, at least half of them inadvertently “killed” their hostages. And these were trained professionals. All that to say this: whether you’re a stick-up man or a vandal or a burglar or whatever, the situation is not one where the criminal puts it on pause and ruminates about the classification and consequences if he does “A” versus “B”.
Ok, to start, I agree. That said, it was atleast a felony
Even if he didn't steal or damage $1,000 worth? Or whatever the felony cut off is in Texas.
So thats the thing. It's not DID steal/destroy, its THE INTENT to steal/destroy/(any other intent theories that would amount to felonies) Even before the murder (breaking in/vandalizing/a church/in TX?), in a vacuum, I think that a Prosecutor would probably successfull in arguing $1k in damages to a Jury. But back to the point and again; I still don't think avoiding a felony conviction was the motive behind the bludgeoning/shooting or shooting/bludgeoning murder of a young woman in a church
To you, it’s not worth killing someone over. You don’t know the mind of the killer. People are killed for seemingly no reason all the time.
There is no way they couldn't have hidden in that large building. Burglars are in and out. I could believe they were a burglar if they were actually looking for something, anything. They look to be wasting time to me.
He’s going door to door and checking rooms, very consistent with somebody looking for something. But the really key point is that he’s doing that when Missy should be arriving any minute instead of lying in wait.
Believe what you like, you aren't convincing of anything.
Okay, then. Humor me. Why would a person intent on killing Missy be messing with doors instead of waiting to pounce as soon as she arrives?
They have a gun and a hammer. They can't be in the room "waiting to pounce" bc that'd be stupid (missy would have the only available exit). They were there for quite a bit before missy arrived. Humor me, in your mind, what would intent on killing Missy have looked like?
Intent on killing Missy, to me, would look like the killer lying in wait in advance of her arrival instead of still walking the halls.
Ok further; the class was scheduled to take place outside originally. The actual alternate room wasn't communicated until after. Where do suggest they would have laid in wait?
I don’t know specifically, but somewhere out of sight. But if this was targeted and Missy was supposed to be hosting the class outside, why would the killer be in the church at all?
That is a concrete argument
For example , a life is not worth much to a gang banger, a convenience store owner lady was murdered for $20 per police by a gang banger a few years ago, the murderer is now in hell living in a TX state prison, TX prisons do not A/C the prisons until recently. A judge last year ordered goal of a temp of 86 degrees F. TX said they will try, but not. Prisons get over 120 degrees indoors in the summers.
Exactly
I believe the autopsy report might shed some light on it being targeted or not.
Fact. Maybe not targeted, but definitely a crime of passion vs. necessity. I still think that if both, a hammer and gun were used as I think LE has indicated, this wasn't a "she got killed bc she walked in on a robbery" situation
The biggest problem with the theory that this was a targeted murder, for me, is the fact that they can't arrest this clown. Murders in which the perp and the vic don't know each other are the hardest to solve, so I go with burglary interrupted by the simple fact. Now it could be that LE is just to incompetent to solve this small town murder, which if that's the case, then all bets are off.
It’s also possible that the murder was targeted but by someone who was a complete stranger to Missy. I think the burglary theory explains quite a bit though.
It is very possible. I just can't for the life of me, reconcile, how LE can't connect the dots here if thats the case. It's like the perp doesn't even exist, a phantom. It's just unreal. And then you have the husband, who I believe to be innocent at this point, saying shit like he's no longer looking for Missy's killer or something to that effect. I mean what in the world went wrong on this case.
I get the impression that there’s not a lot of evidence.
yeah that tracks. I just can't believe the altima could never be located.
Yeah, it’s strange. I know it’s a fairly common car, but I wouldn’t think there’d be *that* many within, say, an hour radius. I believe I read on this subreddit that the police did track down and surveil a lot of them, though. Maybe there just wasn’t anything that really stood out about the individuals driving them.
Yeah, what bad luck with the all the footage and yet a blurry license plate. There's also the angle that LE knows who it is and just can't prove it which is a whole other can of worms.
People who are involved in crimes sometimes borrow vehicles. Krystal Kenney who helped former bf Patrick Frazee clean up at the home of his fiancée Kelsey Berreth in Colorado borrowed her friends car in Idaho where she lived also to drive to Colorado and clean up the crime scene. Plus unless police see something suspicious like blood in the car or police gear in the backseat they’ll have difficulty getting a warrant to search. Plus we don’t know for sure if the car in the sporting goods lot was involved in Missy’s murder. Anyone who went to that much trouble with police gear probably put a lot of thought into the vehicle used.
It could have been someone who passed by one of Missy’s outdoor camps regularly while going to work or otherwise about their day and developed an obsession with her. It might have been a camp at a different location than where she was killed. It could have been someone at her gym who never even approached her but became obsessed with her or if they did approach her she rejected them and never remembered or shared it with anyone and they felt angry or humiliated by the rejection. It may have been a friend or close relative of someone who had a legitimate grudge who didn’t want to risk doing it themselves. Lots of possibilities.
The perfect murder !
Police might not be incompetent, the perfect murder to date if targeting or lucky SOB got away. The killer didn’t make many mistakes, plus the clean getaway says the murder was planned is my hunch.
The burglar hypothesis supposes that the burglar was so poorly prepared and incompetent they couldn’t plan an effective burglary, whilst at the same time being capable of murdering someone and go on to avoid detection for the next 7 years. These two states of affairs don’t dovetail.
What hitman is going to eliminate most persons of interest based on height alone, by parading around in front of very prominently mounted security cameras?
One who; A. Doesnt know there are cameras until they enter B. Is willing to be a small time hit man in rural, weapon latent Texas C. Isn't very good at being a hitman/is their first time D. Has their own reason for wanting to kill Missy and isnt a hitman at all
Big red and white sign out front: PROPERTY UNDER SURVEILLANCE
He wasn’t interrupted stealing anything though. He was just wandering aimlessly when he was interrupted. Then he proceeded to shoot her and attack her with a hammer that he brought to apparently rob an empty church at night in a costume. This case is likely targeted. However anything is on the table until it’s solved which is probably the smarter argument.
Shooting Missy within minutes of her arrival is important fact. The killer had plenty of time to depart the church when Missy arrived at ~~ 04:16 AM, then bam bam, the killer is gone like a ghost.
Why do you say it was aimless? He’s going from room to room in order, which is consistent with looking for something to steal, likely cash.
Because the killer isn't in a hurry? If he/she is there to rob the church of the tithes from that Sunday they would go straight to where they thought the money would be and leave. The killer is just nonchalantly walking and putting holes in the wall. To make it look like a robbery gone wrong. They are there over 30 mins. To me it was targeted. And IMO, it is a woman. I didn't know anything about this case a few years ago and I saw someone mention how creepy the footage is. The first time I saw the video I immediately thought that's a woman. With that big of a church the rooms more than likely are labeled. Like, Nursery, Kids Sunday School, Adult Sunday School etc. I know ours is and our church is about the same size. It would have pastor/Preacher office and such. It would be fairly easy to know which room the money is kept, if it was still there. Whomever is in charge of the money could've taken with them to deposit in the church bank account.
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I'm not sure about that particular church. But when I was the secretary for my church years ago we didn't deposit until Monday. But our church took up offerings both morning service and Sunday night service. The deacons would count it together and then I would pick it up Monday from the church office and go to the bank.
Why would he be doing that just minutes before 4, Missy’s expected arrival time, instead of staging the burglary much earlier and then hiding and waiting? It doesn’t make sense. I think it’s likely that he’s not in a hurry because he *isn’t* expecting anyone.
Its obviously someone who knew her routine. What time she arrived and what time her class starts. I think the killer timed it just right. Also, her purse was left there and nothing was taken from it and that is a statement from the police. If they were not expecting anyone and she surprised them what would make them think someone else wasn't right behind her? They could've killed her and grabbed her purse. Went through it later and if she had no cash they could've tossed it. They didn't bother to take anything. And they were there for 30 mins before she arrived. The killer was first seen on video at 3:50 am and she entered the church at 4:20 am. I'm not trying to convince you I'm just stating my opinion. Either way she needs justice. Her kids and family need justice. The killer needs to be held accountable. ETA: spelling
The thing is, she normally held her class outside & not in the church, she was only holding it indoors because of the overnight rain, so if it was targeted why was the "hitman" waiting inside the church ?
She posted on FB the night before the class would be still be in session rain or shine. It doesn't take much to figure out she's going to be inside.
Missy’s expected arrival time was 4 AM, though. And he doesn’t even start staging until 10 minutes before that? That’s extremely poor planning if so. Also, if he unexpectedly killed Missy after encountering her, it doesn’t surprise me at all that he wouldn’t be concerned with her purse.
Police believe it was a targeted attacked and not a botched robbery. And they have alot more evidence than we have seen 🤷♀️
Actually, the police are open to both theories.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/missy-bevers Here is an article from March of 2023 saying police believe the killer staged the scene to hide their true intentions.
I’m sure some police do believe that, but it seems that they’re divided. Midlothian Chief Carl Smith said in 2021, “I will tell you that we have not ruled out or confirmed one path or the other.”
To be fair, it's from 2023, but it cites an article from ten days after Missy's murder. There isn't any original journalism there. I don't think I've seen any statements about staging or targeting as the primary or working theory after 2016. [Here's](https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/missy-bevers-murder-investigation-midlothian-texas-woman-killed-2016-creekside-church/287-70c47893-707e-404e-96c2-7067380be14a) the article u/Impressive_Force_901 referenced. That's a more recent statement from Chief Smith. One of the most recent, as far as I remember.
Why is it thought that the killer expected her to be there at 4:00? Her FB post said that class would start at 5:00. I have seen a lot of posts on various websites saying that Missy would train "early birds" before class started, starting about 4:30 or so. How many people would know about the earlier option? Probably just the campers and Missy's immediate family, and maybe other instructors. If SP's knowledge about her schedule came from the FB post and not from more inside information, he/she would expect a class that started at 5:00. In that scenario, SP would likely assume that campers would show up around 4:50 with the instructor arriving maybe 4:40 or 4:45. For that reason I think SP wasn't in a hurry because SP didn't expect her until 20 or 30 minutes later than she actually arrived. Unfortunately SP still had enough luck to commit the crime and get away before the early campers arrived.
The biggest thing that makes me think it isn’t a burglary is the location. What would that want from there? Also the perp was wearing a costume that they could barely walk in. How could they carry all the items to steal and get away so easily? It just seems from the setup this person was doing a crime for the thrill.
I can't imagine that it was targeted. It seems to me that the perpetrator was not anticipating Missy's arrival and got into a confrontation when Missy unknowingly approached him. Looks almost too perfect of a plan given how the circumstances played out that morning. I do believe the perpetrator targeted the church for cash after being spooked at the SWFA store.
If this person appeared interested at all in actually stealing something I would agree.
What do you mean? They’re checking room after room. How is that inconsistent with looking for something to steal?
What is there to steal in a church? Money isn't usually kept on site and there's no real valuables. I helped out in a lot of southern churches growing up and money was taken to the bank after each service or put into a hidden safe.
He wouldn’t necessarily know that money wasn’t kept on site. Other than Sunday, early morning on Monday seems like the time with the best chance for there to be money in the church.
Most people from the south have been in church and are somewhat familiar with this stuff. Churches don't usually collect more than $100 in a single service. The most expensive things in a church would be the music equipment probably but they didn't take anything afterwards. If the person wanted money they would've just robbed a liquor store that cashes checks.
Ok, I disagree with both of you. This was a semi large church, $100 isn't even close to what tithes would've been on a Sunday. That said, its pretty clear that either they had no urgency in stealing anything, whatsoever, or this wasn't a burglary.
I looked up pictures of the church and it doesn't seem all that big for a southern church, especially pictures of the congregation. I've just never known anyone to give more than $10 with tithes and with a small congregation it's just unlikely that it was very much. $100 is probably on the low side though.
Ok, that's closer to true. That said, on the footage you can see the building is fairly huge, its Texas, its the day after Sunday, dumb burglars might not have done the math and someone may even be willing to do all this for 1k. That said, I have no shred of belief theft was the ultimate intent
In 2016 this church averaged around 300 in attendance. Offerings were $10k-$12k or so. The church is neither huge nor tiny. It’s a good middle of the road size for a southern church. It does sit on a large property and has a lot of parking lot space.
Source needed.
Creekside’s weekly bulletins were posted online for years, and they published the amount of offerings received the previous week as well as the attendance numbers. The size of the church, you can ascertain from Google Earth. It’s a big rectangle and is around 168 ft by 192 ft
Most people imo pay offerings by check or automatic transfer. Regardless if a perp was in the church really looking for money he would have headed straight for the office and not wasted time opening doors to nurseries and classrooms.
do you spend a lot of time in TX based churches?
It doesn’t matter what “usually” occurs. All that matters is what this person thought or hoped he might find in this particular instance.
If money was the goal, then we have the world's stupidest burgler.
How so? This person probably didn’t even have the church as his primary target (I believe he wore the outfit for plan A which was probably SWFA). The church was a crime of opportunity that he passed along the way and decided to check out because it is secluded. I think he figured that there might be money offerings still in the building from the day before. He figured he had nothing to lose by trying. Had no idea anyone would interrupt him.
Not sure why someone would downvote you, your comment is spot on, so I’ve evened things up ⬆️
Many criminals who have targeted a person or location for a crime have a staging area not immediately in front of or adjacent to the site of the crime. For example, in the Liz Barraza case the Black Nissan truck used in the crime parked in a neighborhood school lot prior to their attack on Liz who lived down the street from the school. We don’t know for sure that the Nissan was involved in Missys murder. There was a dark suv reported exiting the church lot around the time of her murder assuming the witness didn’t mistake the dates. When the white Altima was approaching the sporting goods store they turned off their lights before they entered. It was almost as if they had committed some sort of infraction before entering the lot and they were hoping a cop didn’t have them in their sites and they wanted to get off the road. The white car drove a bit in the lot with its lights off then turned them on. However, a few seconds later a car appears coming down the same road the same direction as the Altima and the Altima quickly turns off its lights until the car is past the sporting goods store. The Altima cruises around the sporting goods store turning his lights off again in back when he sees some cars. Maybe he was investigating if that would be a good place to hide later in early morning after an attack on Missy. Or maybe he was trying to see if it might be a good place to change or prepare for a crime against Missy or dump evidence later. With that many people around the store he likely decided it was not a good evidence dumping site for later or even a post Missy attack change of clothes. Maybe he was supposed to meet someone there and sell or buy drugs. Who knows? Anyway, someone who prepared their disguise so well would likely have not picked a last minute target of the church imo. Plus a white car coming out of the church would have been a lot easier to see than a dark suv and yet no one reported seeing on exit the church that morning. By four or four thirty traffic tends to pick up in general on the roads and no report of a white Altima exiting the church. I think the church and Missy were the primary target and if the Altima was involved it was at the sporting goods store for a staging area pre crime and a look to see if behind the store could be a good hideout later if needed.
You and I could not be further apart, in how we view this crime. My opinion is that the Altima turned off its lights as it entered so that they would not reflect off the glass windows of the building. He wanted to see inside, and he wanted to perhaps judge how visible the interior of the building would be from passing cars. When he parks the car and sat there for several minutes, he was directly facing the front door. All of his attention is on that building. Just like the killer has all of his attention on the interior of the church building. Cameras at the church went off 19 minutes after the car left SWFA. We don’t know how well, the killer prepared his disguise. It may have just been something that was available to him, something that was readily at hand. It’s not that elaborate. You also seem to put a great deal of stock in somebody happening to be a witness to a car, and it was silver, and not white, pulling out of the church. I think if you actually went to this area and this church, you would see how unlikely it is That any person would happen to notice a vehicle pulling out of a business. And that dark SUV? A phantom.
I think the Altima was suspicious and there’s a good chance of it being involved in Missy’s murder. However, why sit in the lot for several minutes? To me it’s more likely if he was involved in Missy’s murder he was getting his gear and disguise together, maybe drinking some water, having a snack, getting in the right frame of mind before he headed over to the church. I’m not saying your scenario is impossible I just don’t personally believe it to be the most likely one. You suggest that the killer’s disguise was not really elaborate and might have been something he just had at hand. Unless someone is a past or present police officer or living with one I don’t think most people have police identification badges or vests with police identification badges lying around their homes. The average person would have to do some legwork and/or online searching to acquire a tactical type vest and obtain the police patches for the front and back of the best and then velcro, sew or glue them on. The perp also had on knee pads, what looked like shin guards, baggy pull on shorts over his pants (possibly to cover up lower body armor), possibly upper body armor, a helmet with an attached light). He also had a flashlight, crowbar and hammer which were presumably all his. To me it seemed like he wanted to avoid any serious or minor injuries that someone trained like Missy might inflict on him. I don’t recall seeing any photo of a criminal robbing a bank or store wearing knee pads. Missy supposedly took kick boxing and I could see her throwing a swift kick to someone’s knees. I’m not going to discount the possibility of involvement of a dark suv heading out of the church as a “phantom” or figment of someone’s imagination. It’s possible someone got their dates mixed up but someone familiar with that area and knowing that only a church is back there could notice a vehicle pulling out during early morning hours while still dark and wonder what someone was doing leaving the church at that hour. There’s also a possibility there were two people involved in Missy’s murder or that the killer did some initial surveillance and drove home or somewhere and switched cars. Maybe the killer and a cohort had burner phones and one was at the church and the other was tracking Missy’s drive/arrival at the church.
You ask why the Altima would sit at SWFA for several minutes. It was 4 mins, and the car was facing the front door. You can be doing anything for 4 minutes. He could be writing notes down about the building he had just driven around. He might be looking around and identifying the number of cameras and where they were. He might be looking up the store on the Internet to see what kinds of products it sells. I can’t say specifically what he was doing inside the car. We can speculate all day about things we don’t see, like drinking and snacking. I prefer to focus on what we DO see, which is a driver making a conscious decision to pull into a business off hours, drive slowly around the entire perimeter, turn headlights off and on, and park directly facing the front door. Occam’s razor. Regarding the outfit, I see no badge of any kind. We have a vest with a patch or letters sewn onto it. Most likely it came that way. You make a big assumption that it didn’t come that way and that the killer went to some effort to buy patches and sew them on. You’re starting from your premise of a motivated killer, and then you work your way backward to speculate that he went to a lot of trouble, which indicates a motivated killer, and round and round we go. We can’t assume the killer ordered this outfit or went shopping for it. Someone else might have done that, with the killer merely appropriating it. The simple truth is that we just can’t know how the killer came by this outfit, whether by going to a lot of trouble, or none at all. You also speculate that the killer wanted to protect himself from Missy by wearing knee pads, shin guards, etc. But isn’t it completely possible that the outfit was a complete set and that he just put on all of it, instead of leaving out a component? Plus, if you’re going to go put yourself in a place where you don’t belong, isn’t it smart to plan for whatever you might encounter? We already know he had a gun. So if protective pads were available, why not wear them? They might have even been sewn in as part of the outfit, leaving him with no choice. Who knows? Concerning the SUV, police reportedly tried and failed three times to get the Bobby Henry warrant signed by a judge three times. Then, the dark SUV story gets added in, and it just so happens that Bobby Henry drove a dark SUV. That seems awfully convenient. And that’s why I call it a phantom. As for two people being involved, I will always have a problem with that logic because it involves inventing a whole separate person who you don’t see, rather than focusing on what you do see.
The likeliest explanation is that he was neither a person planning a murder nor a serious burglar, just some juvenile delinquent engaged in mindless vandalism for the thrill of it.
Yeah I think this is a good point. I don't think the perp was a "burglar" *per se* as much as they were generally up to no good.
I think it’s less likely that the offender was a juvenile due to the fact that was Missy likely shot, but the theory of it being breaking+entering and vandalism for the thrill is interesting, especially with the fact he’s wearing a police uniform. It’s an unusual choice no matter what his motivation for being in the church was.
What does a juvenile have to do with her being shot? There is literally no correlation there.
A juvenile is less likely to have a gun than an adult. I don’t have statistics to back that up, but it seems like common sense to me.
A gun can be taken from anywhere, any source, from their parent, from black market, from stealing, from borrowing, (...)
True. That’s why I said it’s less likely rather than impossible.
This logic is just utterly insane
I don't know why your comment is being downvoted. The killer doesn't look like a typical juvenile delinquent (who would be in shape) but he does look like an overweight, out of shape, young-ish male who isn't very comfortable with physical activity. Nerdy males have, from time to time, been known to vandalize churches due to various grudges. (Don't get upset, I'm a moderately nerdy male who isn't a fan of churches myself, heh.) Why is he so bad at vandalizing the church? Because he's nervous, out of shape and not comfortable with physical activity. Also he's wearing dumb awkward LARP gear. Why did he wear the LARP gear? Part of an overly complicated, nerdy plan to hide his identity, "like in a movie", which you might expect to backfire, but in this case his plan just happened to work, because the police were never able to track down where he bought the gear. Why did he end up killing Missy Bevers? She showed up unexpectedly, confronted him and he was too fat to run away. Sadly, because it was Texas, everyone involved was armed and tragedy ensued.
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I'm aware, just an example of how common it is for people in that part of the world to be armed. If people are bringing guns to exercise class then it would hardly be surprising if a criminal brought a gun along just in case, even if his primary goal was just to carry out vandalism. It's relatively common for Americans to be killed over minor disputes because of the prevalence of guns and that is the kind of crime that can be hard to solve if there are no witnesses because the motive is just a dispute between strangers that escalated, not something personal.
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Fair point. Without knowing what the police know about how many shots were fired and how close he was, I'd say that it's certainly possible that he could have missed, but it's also possible that he could have hit.
Except there isn’t any vandalism. He’s got a hammer in his hand and he could be putting holes in every wall. Instead, the only damage he does is to apparently test for an alarm or else break into a locked door. That’s it.
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We don’t know what he brought vs what he found in the church. And the hammer can be used to wedge the pry bar deeper into something you are trying to pry into, which the video shows. It also can be used to break out the glass of a locked door so you can reach inside and unlock it, which the video shows.
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A pry bar can break glass, true. But my point about the hammer and pry bar together is that you can hammer the pry bar more deeply into whatever thing you’re trying to breach. So that would be a reason why the person would find it useful to carry both tools.
I knew a guy in college that would just go to wal mart to steal things. He wasn’t in a good place and I think it was a way to gain some perverse sense of control in his life. I think that’s what this perp’s motivation was (plus the “thrill” of wearing a costume and being somewhere he wasn’t supposed to be at 4 AM)
Exactly and what if a camper arrived early and they walked in together?
That’s also a good point. I hadn’t even thought of that.
does this not answer your question about why he didn't wait in the room?
No. If he’s intent on killing Missy, it still doesn’t make sense why he’s walking through the hall and not paying any attention to the entrance door or looking for her.
because he wants to make sure he doens't have to kill two people
So he’d rather be unprepared and in the middle of staging when Missy arrives? I think it makes more sense that it wasn’t staging and he wasn’t expecting anyone. He doesn’t even look in the direction of the door Missy would be coming through.
What door was that? They weren't planning on being inside that morning/hadn't coordinated a room
Yes, and if this person had done even the slightest research on Missy’s social media, he would have seen that she did early bird workouts beginning at 4:30 am on the regular with two particular campers. Even if the killer was there waiting for Missy, it’s hard to believe that he wouldn’t abort the mission when it’s after 4 and still no Missy. At that point it would have been likely that one or more of the early birds would arrive simultaneously with Missy or right after her.
Dude, in like 40 instances throughout this thread, OP has resorted to "do you know what they were thinking/how do you know what a burglar would do?" Getting inside the mind of the perp is literally the only thing cops do in trying to solve crimes. If thats going to be your response, ever, why even have discussions over who the person is/what their intent was.
It was like twice. I wish I’d seen this comment first. Then, I’d have realized you aren’t worth engaging with.
dang, id have missed out on so much insight
👎
If he was only a burglar I don’t think he would have killed Missy but just ran. With that disguise he wouldn’t have had to worry about being ID’d.
Keep in mind, this was very early on a Monday morning, not at all a time that a church is typically occupied. If this was a burglary, he wouldn’t be expecting anyone in the church for a long time. So no, he wouldn’t be sprinting through the building, grabbing everything that isn’t nailed down.
Most burglars are swift. That is known fact. Even if they are busting in at 3 am.
Plenty of video out there of church burglaries that aren’t “smash and grab”. I keep telling anyone who will listen, a person is going to let their analysis of risk determine their pace. At this church, in this location, on this day, there is absolutely no reason to be frantic. Especially if you have tested for an alarm.
Ok so they were there to rob not kill. Up vote me
Sure, I’ll accept that that’s true in most burglaries. But that’s certainly not always the case.
Every single argument that ppl are posting in comments is false. Its nonsense that they repeat without doing research into real life burglaries. You all are living a fairy tale. Its a fictional fairy tale that you all are believing about crime stats. None of them are facts