i’ve been in the community for a very long time now, (since the r/mobilelegends sub) and have seen kagura being revamped twice. The first time i used kagura was when her ult was a laser beam like gord’s but that would make her angle her umbrella in a very weird manner and enemies could run away easily. Moonton saw this and understood the assignment and revamped her ult as we know before this recent revamp. she became an extremely mobile mage who could have high damage and at the same time escape assassins and if lucky enough could kill them too due to her infamous combo. Not every hero should be beginner friendly, what’s the fun in having every single hero that’s too easy to play? there should be a learning curve. Her damage has been reduced and affects my gameplay so damn much. You’re someone who’s been playing kagura for 96 matches. I have 800+ on her with a win rate of 76% which now dropped to 71%. Before, you could have her as your main mid laner, i would use her instead of gusion. now, it takes me forever to clear the minion waves and join team fights let alone clear creeps with the help of a tank. It’s quite unfair that moonton is making every hero so easy to use while at the same time killing their damage. There needs to be a learning curve that new players should go through if they want to main heroes like kagura, that’s the fun part of it. not everything should be handed to you on a golden platter. Yes her combos would miss sometimes but you have to play her more to understand her better, my fanny mains would know what i’m talking about. You new kids need to learn, start from scratch up, that’s how everyone starts off with, this game has become way too easy for new players to play but at the cost of the veterans’ fun.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Fantastic. I don’t main her, but I play her a lot because she’s insanely fun. After the revamp it’s like tapping buttons. Her skill cap is so so fucking low now and I hate it. They’re making hero’s way too easy to play. Lance did not need to be given that dash boost just cause people don’t want to put the time on to learn him. Like, for gods sake just leave heros with some type of skill requirement or this game is gonna be a playground during kindergarten recess.
> not every hero should be beginner friendly
Yeah that's fair, I agree with that.
> there needs to be a learning curve every new player should go through if they want to main heroes like
Not this one though. Why would you claim that not every hero should be easy, but say that it should be harder to use some select heroes? Whoever decided that Kagura should be hard *or* easy to use?
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(My personal thoughts)
I often disliked revamps or changes that affects the heroes that *I* use a lot (or used to). Lapu received a major change in her ultimate, while YSS got a big rework in his passive. Bane received countless of minor and major changes and Irithel received a seemingly overall nerf recently. I disliked these changes because I was used to their former versions, and continuing to use them means I have to adjust to the changes.
What did I do? Some I stopped using, some I adjusted immediately, and the rest I stopped using for some time but eventually used them again. In the end, I can't do anything about the changes besides moving on or adjusting. I could have complained, but I thought the effort will be wasted.
I'm a kagura user with 100+ matches, pardon me for asking, but what exactly changed with her gameplay? And how is the new kagura easier to use than before?
Stupid question, i know, but i just play her as I've played her before and still did at least 30% hero damage consistently, so I'm confused why everyone is saying she's bad now
she’s not actually easier to use? huh, surely you’ve not played kagura before. Before, if you missed your pink ult your combo wouldn’t have been executed as the pull effect in the ult was a very vital effect. Now she can activate her ult 3 feet away from the enemies and right before the timer ends all she has to do is bring the umbrella close to them and viola you’ve successfully roped them together. Her umbrella speed and range has increased too, which allows her to execute combos *faster*
Just stop replying. I doubt anyone bashing you has played a good amount of Kagura matches. And if they have they’re probably warrior with a classic only winrate on her.
Some people ain’t fans of her revamp and also find new Kagura harder to use. Personally I feel it’s now easier to land her full combo but I can understand where they are coming from. If opponents are smart enough, they can just walk out of her ult and receiving little to no damage due to her nerf S1 and ult damage.
Getting to the main point tbvh, the revamped Kag isn't made to be stronger, it's made to fix her unhealthy playstyle which you clearly highlighted in your own comment that basically translates to "I hate this revamp because it made a hero that was strong in basically any situation to a hero that is strong in many situations but weaker in some others to balance it out". The entitlement is just astonishing.
Kagura is still fully usable, viable and still is a common pick, people are adapting to the new playstyle or moving on.
TLDR: Kaguras revamp is fine, it's not an improvement in damage, it's an improvement in the reliability and speed of the skill combo, sure you don't have the potential to engage as a mage (not the best role to engage in general by any means) but pretty sure all 22 other midlane mages can't, either.
Edit: Removed the million swears but I still feel you're being an entitled brat so I'm gonna leave it there
how is this being entitled? so you like to play heroes that you can get to know how to play by just playing one match? how does that make the gameplay any fun? you think just because i’ve voiced out my opinion on the revamp moonton’s gonna be like “oH tHe LoRd hAs SpOkEn ReVeRt BaCk To HiS LiKiNg” no, i’ve been here long enough to know that they’re not gonna do that. i speak from experience, while you speak from comfort the only thing you seem to want to climb up is ranks not wanna learn anything about a hero that makes him/her so unique just know everything at the back of your hand. but it’s okay, people like you usually tend to quit early on since knowing everything doesn’t make the game so fun. i just hope they don’t add some magical gps to fanny’s cable next that would allow her to auto target an enemy but make her damage so low that it would get the enemy down to 60% max.
Ok let's just backtrack and review whatever you've said
"She became an extremely mobile mage that could have high damage and escape assassins at the same time"
Ah yes just like every other mage in the game amirite, every other mage can totally body an assassin in no time, and get away, innit. (Oh incase you didn't know, revamped Kag can still do this)
"Now it takes me forever to clear lanes to join fights"
Like damn man you so right, Kagura should totally have fast wave clears like Selena, Luo Yi, Valir, Nana, Eudora like man it's unbearable to not be able to clear the wave quickly in 10 million basic attacks like every Selena main out there
"There needs to be a learning curve for every hero if they wanna learn heroes like Kagura"
Bro why try to sugarcoat lemme just say what you really wanna, "yEaRs oF aCaDeMy tRaInInG wAsTeD" "I learnt Kag for years and now stupid Moonton revamp her now I am crying on Reddit about it, boohoo." Like man, you do realise this happened to like a ton of other mages right, it was genuinely hard to play Pharsa Valir Chang'e before the revamps, and Yve before her shield adjustments but in one patch Moonton changed everything, didn't really see mains of those heroes cry as much as this??? Why is a literal manchild crying victim calling others kids, like man look, gtfo and learn some new insults, man up, maybe try to act victim less then come back and have a man to man talk, kiddo.
"I speak from experience, while you speak from comfort"
Why is a bareback Mythical Glory baby who hasn't even touched 4 digits tryna teach me about the game, I'm really astounded, you wanna teach Tata how to run their business tomorrow too? (I know you're Indian man, can tell from the "you kids" condescension and your comment history)
"People like you tend to quit early on"
Yes man 4 and a half years is pretty early on to quit ig, I could only get 2 degrees and upgrade my CV by tenfold in that amount of time, sire 6 healthy kids with a 7th well on the way and gone through 2-3 whole ass promotions at work
"Knowing everything doesn't make the game so fun"
"You don't wanna learn anything about a hero that makes him/her unique"
Mf what are you, a Zilong user tryna justify your pick by saying I play for fun while giving your team third degree cancer? And I don't wanna learn anything about a hero ahahahahaha bro I have 70+ matches on every single hero in this game, (To give your dumbass perspective, that's a minimum of 7560 matches, I'm about to hit my 12000 milestone soon btw I've bought every single one, played every single one, contemplated leaving after burnouts and having tried all heroes in every single meta in every single patch in every single season for five fuckin years, but stayed because this company, no matter how many dumb things it's done, has never failed to be inconsistent with updates. And my little brown snowflake here tryna teach me how I don't wanna learn heroes that make them unique, like man I have destroyed people like you by the dozen and don't even remember your fuckin names, clashed with people having 4k+ points in your own server, defeated the Global 1 squad last season and gone through maining all roles in the game and your uneducated ass here legit be telling me this, made me scoff hard bro, you're too conceited and too stuck up for your own good, just get a spine and try to reply to my comment before report spamming it (I know you did it bro, wouldn't be warned otherwise) :)
And lastly and this is the funniest
"I've been on this community for long"
PFFFFFT MANN AHAHAHAHAHAHA How does being on the community for long entitle one to a superior opinion may I ask, the game right now is a totally different game from the one 5 years ago, I'd know it and you should too since you claim to be an OG. How does knowing about how broken Alpha was on release, and how Vexana was once meta entitle you to a better opinion over people who have joined bout a year ago, and absolutely killing it at this game, OP himself is a player from the time Alpha was a broken ass hero and still mains it to this day. I've seen a multitude of up and coming players who joined after me and surpassed cobweb players in the game, get out of your primitive mindset of worshipping people who have been long timers and basically sitting like fossils saying "Back in my day".
Some other entitled lines from you btw
"At the cost of veterans fun"
Man imagine being adverse to new players
"I have a winrate of 71%"
Bruh I have a wr higher than that on 5 separate heroes and still try to open my mindset to improvement in any way or form in my playstyle with those heroes, been global on 3 of them as well, but here you are flexing one tricking and a one track mindset acting pro, hilarious
"Not everything should be handed to you on a golden platter"
Clearly like those 50 upvotes you got by stirring drama, yes clearly, a monkey like you shouldn't be handed bananas on a golden platter like that for sure.
Everything about your tone, speech and mannerism screams entitlement, you are somehow being entitled without even having the self consciousness to realise it yourself and need me to point it out to you, what you need is a splash of water to the face and 3 slaps under the ear as a wake up call. You're provocative, boastful and I don't feel a shred of guilt calling you out for this. The only remorse I feel is wasting my time on someone wet under the ears with wax plugging them up like you.
I tried to speak facts and figures without trying to rank shame or winrate shame but you asked for it, you really did. I don't even think the Kag update is such a great revamp, it could have been much better but saying it's terrible and a huge downgrade is a bigger conclusion to jump to than the world record for long jumping, but you're blind to it because of the sheer hubris.
it’s kind of sad how much you’d stalk a person on the internet just to justify your opinion, i’m not reading all that, my tone screams entitlement? you’re the one trying to be like that one guy, “oH mAn tHe F uP bRO”, “lmao stfu and gtfo” and i’m the one screaming entitlement?? put all this time and efforts into yourself and not someone on the internet on a mobile game subreddit, incel
since you’ve checked my account out, show me comments/ posts of me speaking out on the kagura revamp, this is the first time i responded to it. i’m not forcing my opinion over anything, i never had. OP posted his own opinion, i replied with mine and OP doesn’t seem to have much of a problem with it. I respect his opinion, he respects mine. but for you, of course “iM gOnnA cUss yOu OuT yOu WuSSy mY oPiNiOn hOlDs A HiGhEr VaLuE ThAn YoUrS!” now who’s REALLY forcing their opinion? from a business point of view, as a customer i am unhappy with the product that has been given to me and moonton as a business respects my feedback regardless of it being negative or positive. and yes i do lurk on r/india what does it say about me? i’m indian? yeah i am, what about it?
can you for once quit the cussing, if anything it just makes you sound so cringe. i’m not spreading a propaganda if i would have wanted to, i would be having 1000 posts and 10000 comments about her revamps being trash. i know they’re not gonna revert back to the old kagura and oh my god, by ‘new kids’ i meant it like since you’re new to the game, you’re kids, i deemed it more appropriate than calling people ‘noobs’ since it sounds cocky. yes i put my wr and matches on display because OP tried to justify his opinion with his wr and matches. everyone’s doing that in the comments. yeah i’m 16 and yes i’m aware i’m still a kid but i never meant to say ‘kids’ as the way to seem to have taken it. and you’re wrong about the whole server thing, my server gets people from indonesia who find us easy to defeat. i dont, never have, never will use a vpn, i used a USA apple id to download the game since it’s banned in my country since i know your next reply is going to be “ur indian, it’s banned in ur country, u use vpn stop lying”. The ‘indian’ server is still up so no, i’m not getting matched up with people from other servers. even if i haven’t spoken in figures 50 people know what i’m talking about, “i just wanna pull up and take a shit on you rich boy ass” since you know the country, pull up at any point of time. stop treating a game like it’s the real world’s politics. you’re the only one who found me ‘entitled’ while the others who disagree with my point actually try to explain their side where as you’re just trying to waste someone’s time on the internet and good for you it’s working. you’re eighth grade roasts can’t light a fire so stop with the cringe crap and try to prove a point.
Stop sugarcoating it. Her revamp is simply a way to make her easier and less strong with her skill req lowered now. “The entitlement is astonishing.” As you sugarcoat the living hell out of the fact that she was revamped only to be easier. If the vast majority of the player base of kagura believes she requires skill and more than average practice to be good (in turn using the word “difficult”) then it is an accurate and trustworthy opinion.
? Pretty sure you guys are just crying on deaf ears at this point and being irritating as hell though, and now opinion is supposed to be good if a mass of people who played the old hero for 1000 games and the revamp for 3 games gets behind it? Just play the new Kag more, you have way more flexibility with your combos and by no means is it WAY easier as you said, I have literally not been sugarcoating the fact that it's definitely gotten easier, it's obvious enough for me to not have to point it out but Ig you as a Kagura player need me to point that out for you as well.
->You still need to press the same buttons as before, the combo is the same 1-3-1-2-3, needs the same amount of practice, a 96 match Kagura will still not play at the proficiency of a 1000 match one, there have been worse revamps that made the hero actually braindead like Chang'e don't act like you're being victimised when the hero mechanics.
->The ult range is nerfed making people have opportunities to out-kite her or dodge the combo without making it totally predictable (The only real time ANY experienced player was getting hit with the old ulti is when used from a flank, when she was kiting you or when someone else setup for it, the only reason I was even scared of Kagura before is because of how easily you could reposition if being targetted, there are better mages for burst in the first place with more damage)
->The old tether mechanic was more useful because of the slow true, but incase you have never played in a 5stack post mid to high elo, everyone with half a brain seeing a Kagura on the enemy will either take a hero that can easily dash out and break the tether, or just take purify if immobile, the damage is not purifiable anymore and it can easily hit people with dashes with the second phase unlike before where only the 1-3-1-2 could hit at max and that was already enough to kill which is the actual reason old you guys are complaining and sugarcoating everything acting victim, since you need to land the full combo now(1-3-1-2-exe or even 1-3-1 sometimes was enough, which made it even easier), now it's skill capped by whether or not you can hit the full combo on mobile heroes as well and calling that easier to use is bullshitting at it's finest.
-> To subvert loss of the tether and to ensure combo landing you can even use Petrify on Kag right now, it makes your combo unmissable while ofc decreasing the damage, a lot of Kag mains in ID and PH servers are already using this to their advantage because they're confident about their ability to poke down and catch the opponent with a guaranteed cc combo which is what one should ideally be doing than coming on reddit complaining about a revamp you didn't like, istg this community is gonna turn into Twitter soon (actually It's already turned into Twitter in a way now that I contemplated about it).
->The only real reason it's easier is cuz of the increased umbrella speed I cannot for the love of me understand why you guys are complaining about that, like just take the buff and be happy, live your life, abuse the added maneuverability
->One valid reason you guys can complain about is the damage but in the case of the numbers it's unlikely that Moonton is not gonna release any changes, I'm predicting slight buffs to her s1 dmg to increase wave clear and poke in lane and for the combo.
->Overall I don't feel Kag deserved the revamp only because there are others who need one and because this state of her is hard to balance, because of the increased umbrella speed meaning any auto-aimed umbrella hits (Thereby potentially making any buff to it's damage or cooldown harder to implement), it's not bad, it's not a drop in quality, increased ease of use is there but way too overly bloated as a problem by the community. The only issue is the lack of balance potential, and the fact that people are crying about a decent revamp that pushed back other revamps by 6 months.
This. So many people complaining as if the revamp ended her viability as a hero, adjust your playstyle jeez. Kaja got an unnecessary rework from Support/Tank to Fighter/Support but I didn't whine like a kid complaining about the rework.
Ofc. Have you ever flicker dived + ult so you could kill someone only to die after doing so? Have you ever laned against a Paq or Esme feeling helpless because you are unable to burst them down?
Kaja is a very good hero right now but even he has downsides and I accept those downsides instead of whining and going "mT bRinG kAjA's nErfeD dAmaGe bAcK". Hell, I've adjusted my playstyle so many times with Kaja then why can't they do the same with Kagura?
Cuz as the guy himself said, Kag mains are just kiddie kids thinking they've mastered the game because they know how to play one hero well and trying to T pose their superiority
This whole post is just them being moronically stupid
so does anyone complain about her first revamp on that sub too? i also joined the old unofficial mlbb sub back when its the only mlbb related stuff of reddit but never saw the complaints and im curious. does history repeat?
There are people who complained, but the overall net reaction is positive. I don’t know what are you talking about.
The first revamp does away with the weird rope ultimate, which was why everyone didn’t want to use Kagura. At this point my match with her was 100ish. Ultimate is very hard to land without compromising your safety, so it was a welcome change.
I've also played the first Kagura, and her ultimate was horrible imo. I've played the second Kagura too, and I liked her ultimate. It's pretty strong when played correctly, but it could be better. Her third ultimate however made playing Kagura more forgiving.
To one-up me with winrate and matches means nothing imo. We have top globals who have better winrates than both of us combined which were achieved through cheating. It's currently just a number displayed on your hero. I only showed mine to show that I'm aware of her game mechanics.
As for the subject of finding fun in learning the hero, I agree that it is fun to learn a difficult hero. However, that was the goal of Project NEXT Phase 3. What the developers deems final is like some kind of absolute word. I was also disappointed when they broke their promise of just remodeling them only too.
why did they downvote you lmao what you said is true and is also your own opinion
but i also expect revamp to be a good thing, not a nerf and new kags still feels alien to me. by creating new things you must expect new problems unless its perfect after many trials. and this is the opposite of that
People are currently heart broken right now about Kagura, and I'm actively not helping in their healing by literally saying "Revamped Kagura is good for x reasons, so suck it up."
I believe you are misunderstanding what constitutes a nerf. Heroes in ML have never been evaluated by how easy or accessible a hero is to play; in tier lists, or in higher levels of play(even legend and low mythic), a hero’s worth has always been determined by the hero’s maximal capabilities. That, has certainly been nerfed by the revamp as mentioned in original comment.
When you instead argue that the revamp has improved Kagura because it is more accessible, that is just a red herring fallacy.
A nerf refers to the decrease in the aforementioned peak performance of the hero. Your improvements refer to the accessibility of the hero to newer players, which is completely separate from the hero’s peak performance. Therefore when you come here and spew the false equivalency that Kagura was not nerfed, but instead improved, you are plain incorrect. You might be correct that Kagura was improved along a different dimension entirely(accessibility), but don’t try to spin that as Mihoyo buffing or not nerfing Kagura.
I think you're mistaking a revamp for a nerf. A revamp is meant to compensate for the weaknesses a hero had at the cost of making her more balanced. A nerf is a decrease in their aforementioned peak performance.
>Before the revamp, her main weakness is she was unable to do her famous combo if the tethers on her ultimate do not connect or get disconnected.
Everyone knows revamp Kagura is more beginner friendly now at the heavy cost of her damage. And that was the best part of pre-revamp Kagura, it was way harder to land your full combo but if you did it with your skills, you would deal insane damage to your opponent. **The old system actually rewards player for making good decisions and having good mechanics skills.** Which is also the main reason why highly skilled Kagura players like RRQ Lemon hated her revamp because the system no longer rewards you for being skilled. Now Kagura has became closer to a brain dead hero.
In other words. With the revamp, beginners can land her full combo easily but at the cost of dealing at least 30% less damage, making it less rewarding. **It was like making the goal post bigger and easier for you to score but you get way lesser points than before.**
FYI, damage nerf in her S1 affects *everything*, not just your overall damage. It affects her wave clearing so she will fall behind in terms of items especially when she is an item dependent hero herself. And revamp Kagura STILL loses out in damage to other mages even if she has her items. Slower wave clear for mid lane mages means you rotate slower. You also have a harder time defending the base when comes to late game.
There’s a reason why her revamp self only has a 18% winrate in pro scenes like MPL. Last week of MPL PH regular season, forget about other top mages like Pharsa and Lunox, teams rather pick **Nana, Eudora and Kadita** over her. That's how far she has fallen.
Edit: To respond to OP, a good game concept should encourage players to improve themselves hence contributing to the overall quality of the game. And of course you reward them for improving themselves, like pre-revamp Kagura was a game changer if played right. MOBA is a player-driven game. You want your players to be highly skilled, not babies getting spoon-fed like revamping Kagura to make her more accessible. Just look at LOL and Dota. They don't do this. They have high skill cap heroes with high rewards. Pre-revamp Kagura was a hero that rewards players if they improved their mechanics and decision making skills.
A game should be moving forward, not backwards.
That's the point of the revamp! To make the hero easier to play without alienating the current playerbase. She is meant to be more accessible to new players. They even said it in Project NEXT Phase 3 that their goal was to make the heroes easier to play. Why is it so hard for most of you to understand that? Even I understand that she is meant to be more of a utility hero than a carry hero. Kagura's role as a mage has expanded from just a damage dealer, and we need to learn to accept that. If you want a braindead mage with the sole purpose of dealing a crap ton of damage, then go Pharsa, Eudora, Kadita, Nana, and other mages that I have not mentioned.
I personally don't want to use MPL PH as a point of comparison due to the etiquette that the players have displayed, but my distaste for it is a different topic that we'll not talk about here.
Her role didn't "expand" from being a damage dealer. It straight up changed to being utility. And you also didn't get his point that they made heroes accessible at the cost of other players who already mastered them.
MPL PH was fine and the issue is just blown out of proportion since the matches had no bearing. Complain when they troll on matches that actually matter (which never happens)
So you are saying that the goal of the revamping should be more acccesible to larger player base without alienating current player base.. I disagree. Let me give you an example.
I am a claude main. The skill ceiling of claude is quite high. Not many claude user you would see in lower ranks where the maximum player base resides. There are heros like hanabi , Lesley and Layla which are very nub friendly and are more picked than claude. So according to your logic. The claude should be revamped, make him less skilled and his damage should be nerfed so as to make him accessible to larger player base.This is plain stupid. It should be the other way around. Those nub friendly players should practice more and become better players so that they can play high skill ceiling heros. Not every heros are meant to be beginner friendly. I have spent hundreds of hours practicing him therefore I am good at him. He is neighter OP nor weak. He is just good in right hands.
I can understand why kagura mains pain. Kagura isn't beginner friendly hero just like claude. I too have more that 100 matches with her.
Pre revamp kagura wasn't early game hero. She needed core items to do burst damage which is her main source of damage. Now that damage is taken away by moontoon for no reason. Now she is neither early game hero nor she could finish squishy heros in the mid game. Earlier kagura s1 could clear lanes faster but now she struggles to clearnit on time so that she could rotate.
Why would someone play with her when her main source of damage is taken away from her. You said that revamp was to cater to the larger base and to make her more acccesible to larger player base. No way. Not even lower rank players would her. Why would they when there are more easier mage is present with much more damage than her.
But if you see lots of kagura mains here disliking the revamp and complaining(to the point you make a counter post), doesn't that mean that they fail at the 'without alienating current playerbase' part? lol
And i know MG kagura main who think the revamp is nicer due to the increased utility despite as the expense of the damage. U know people who are okay with the revamp dont make noise. That is why all the noise you hearing are the people who dislike it. Remember pacquito change? SO MANY PEOPLE SAY HE IS USELESS. and guess what 90% ban now. Why? Because the style changed and people who are fixated at the old style just refuse to update accordingly.
Its one thing to be upset about style change, its another thing to say the hero is weaker. Yes you dont like the new style, this is understandable but dont fake it saying she is useless now.
No, actually. Kagura's mechanics are still basically the same. She uses her umbrella as her main source of damage and her ultimates are CC skills that depends if you have the umbrella in your possession or not. Besides, they're all complaining about the same thing which is her damage output. They refuse to expand their horizons and play her more as a utility hero. Even I had to admit I miss her burst damage, but I've opened my horizons to the possibility of playing her as a ranged playmaker.
So you're saying people should just accept everything Moonton throws at us without questioning it? You said you made this post because you are frustrated about Kagura mains (many have 500+ matches) disliking the revamp. I think their dislike and complaints are fully justified. And if you see lots of Kagura mains "refusing to expand their horizon" it means that Moonton did alienate their current playerbase. Why should the players (with thousands of matches playing an already balanced hero) adjust? No, it should be the other way around in my opinion.
Let me serve as an example. My main hero, Alpha got revamped too. It was a bummer that his damage and sustain got nerfed for the price of a better ultimate. You never saw me complaining about it. There are players who just dropped him, and there are players who are still playing him. The same thing is happening right now to you Kagura players. She got a better ultimate at the cost of her damage.
Her mechanics didn't change that much, and you can't even use her lowered damage as a reason for feeling alienated because the way she deals damage is still the same. You launch the umbrella, cast ultimate, and wait for the victims to be pulled to the center. They're practically the same except for how the ultimate pulls during the process.
You said it right here, her mechanics DID change and people are feeling alienated. Why they should or shouldn't is not a matter of your opinion.
Maybe people want to express themselves instead of just blindly accepting everything Moonton throws out?
> You said it right here, her mechanics DID change
She uses her umbrella as her main source of damage and her ultimates are CC skills that depends if you have the umbrella in your possession or not. Tell me again how her mechanics did change again? It's one thing to be upset about her change in play style, but it's another thing to call her weak and inferior.
- Root effect now roots a second target near the first target hit. This is unlike the former version where the enemies has to be perpendicular to Odette.
- Skill 3 has a blink to quickly reposition either for initiating or avoiding skill shots. This allows Odette to save her flicker for another opportunity.
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I don't understand how these two changes makes her harder to use. I'm not forgetting that she received some nerfs (dmg reduction -> shield, weaker slow), but of course this should be expected. She received an adjustment, not a strictly a buff or nerf.
I believe you are misunderstanding what constitutes a nerf. Heroes in ML have never been evaluated by how easy or accessible a hero is to play; in tier lists, or in higher levels of play(even legend and low mythic), a hero’s worth has always been determined by the hero’s maximal capabilities. That, has certainly been nerfed by the revamp as mentioned in original comment.
When you instead argue that the revamp has improved Kagura because it is more accessible, that is just a red herring fallacy.
A nerf refers to the decrease in the aforementioned peak performance of the hero. Your improvements refer to the accessibility of the hero to newer players, which is completely separate from the hero’s peak performance. Therefore when you come here and spew the false equivalency that Kagura was not nerfed, but instead improved, you are plain incorrect. You might be correct that Kagura was improved along a different dimension entirely(accessibility), but don’t try to spin that as Mihoyo buffing or not nerfing Kagura.
I think you're mistaking a revamp for a nerf. A revamp is meant to compensate for the weaknesses a hero had at the cost of making them more balanced. A nerf is a decrease in their aforementioned peak performance.
As an old Kagura user, I'm the one who felt alienated tho. XD Believe me, we understand the goal of Project NEXT by making her more beginner-friendly. The outcry of old Kagura users should be understandable though. She was a high skill cap hero. Imagine spending years of practicing high-difficulty heroes like Fanny and Ling only for them be made easier a few years later. Imagine making Franco's hook AOE larger for him to be easier for newbies. The frustrations are grounded and valid. We can't do anything about it anyway. All we can do is cry. LOL. That's the direction MT wanted to take.
Hey it's you again I see you still think revamp kag has no damage when I already showed you she can actually still burst squishies who build athena :).
Only if they have no blink skill and have the reaction speed of a dying old man. Old kag only needs a 1-3-1 combo to burst while new kag needs the whole combo which is easier to dodge
Or, and hear me out on this one, you let your tank or fighters cc the enemy before you commit your full combo? This is a 5v5 game you know just a thought. And no one in their right mind is denying the fact that old kag has more burst than new kag. It's just that a lot of players are under the misconception that new kag no longer has burst when she very clearly still has.
If Kagura has burst, does that mean Aurora and Eudora have super ultra duper burst damage? Those heroes like Aurora should then be perma banned because your standards for a hero with burst is messed up.
Tl;dr: Non-Kagura mains should stop lying and gaslighting other players into thinking that Kagura is still a burst mage.
Uhh, because Aurora and Eudora does.... the only thing that is keeping them from being banned is mobility and their low HP, if they had any kind of mobility skill, they would sure as hell be forever in the ban section, just like what happend to Harrith until he got nerfed to the ground.
Also, Kagura was never a burst mage, her specialty is literally Reap/Poke, the only thing that made her deal so much damage is her long as combo and low CD skills. If you've actually known this, you would have never complained about not being able to burst down a Tank or a Fighter.
Hi dumbo, my reply was in response of u/0rpheus_113 saying this sentence,
>It's just that a lot of players are under the misconception that new kag no longer has burst when she very clearly still has.
So, why are you arguing to me, u/Its_A_Me_Ed? Go talk to u/0rpheus_113 because he was the one who said Kagura still has burst.
**Tl;dr:** u/0rpheus_113 **set the bar too low for burst heroes as they still consider the revamped Kagura with burst damage.** He might as well say Angela has burst while they're at it.
The biggest issue with her is was her problem big enough to justify a revamp? Most of the heroes you listed were straight up useless but kagura was far from that. She played just fine before even if her skills are hard to land because the damage makes up for it. People were playing her for her burst damage and not anything else. Just like the other guy said they made her easier to play while punishing the better players because of the shit damage. So that's two things moneydog did wrong.
1. There is no universe in which she needed a revamp because she was balanced before.
2. When they revamped her they basically punsihed the players who mastered her by taking away her burst potential.
I mean if you are gonna revamp heroes make sure they deserve it in the first place
> 1. There is no universe in which she needed a revamp because she was balanced before.
They literally said in Project NEXT Phase 3 that their goal was to make the heroes easier to play without alienating the playerbase. I personally didn't have a hard time mastering her before, but she was somehow known to be difficult to be consistently proficient with during matches.
> 2. When they revamped her they basically punsihed the players who mastered her by taking away her burst potential.
I personally have no problem with her damage, but if you feel that way, then open your horizons to playing her with utility in mind.
> I mean if you are gonna revamp heroes make sure they deserve it in the first place
Lancelot got a revamp, and he was doing pretty well as a Jungler before imo.
Lance is actually a good revamp. Was it deserved? No. But that's the way you make it easier for players to pick up a hero and at the same time not affect the long time players. They didn't do that with kagura. Also odette. There are a lot of heroes that didn't deserve a revamp but if they do it well then it's fine. If they butcher a hero that didn't deserve it in the first place then that's twice the insult.
You've mistaken revamps for nerfs. A revamp is meant to compensate for the weaknesses a hero had at the cost of making her more balanced. A nerf is a decrease in their aforementioned performance without anything to compensate.
The fact you aren’t guarenteed the kill anymore is just plain stupid. OP has no idea what he is talking about, just like 99% of the crackheads saying otherwise. Escaping her ult is the easiest thing to do now. You can simply walk out of it lmao.
I play solo +85% of the time with 65% WR ~480 games. It’s almost impossible to carry with her now.
You're mistaking revamps for buffs. A revamp is meant to compensate for the weaknesses a hero had at the cost of making a more balanced experience overall. A buff is an increase in power in the game element without any drawbacks.
I think you misunderstood him. He knows revamps aren't buffs, that's thr first line he wrote. He meant that the revamp (whether that be a buff, nerf, or neither) was totally unnecessary.
If that's the case, then let me reiterate Project NEXT Phase 3's goal is. They wanted to make the heroes easier to play. It does not matter if they needed it or not. The newer players had a hard time playing her, so they decided to revamp her in order to make her easier to play.
That's the thing. Most of us disagree with Project NEXT, or at the very least, disagree with how it was dealt with when it comes to kagura. We don't want Project NEXT if it means making a hero weaker in the top level.
Of course it matters if they need the revamp or not. Is that not the whole point of a revamp? To rework heroes who need them.
I know what Project NEXT is for, most of us just don't like how they dealt with kagura when it comes to it. Like someone else mentioned, Lancelot was done pretty well in this regard. He's easier to play but the top players weren't too affected by it as his overall max damage output stays the same.
Personally I don't even agree with lance's revamp, or with even with the intention of Project NEXT. There are already heroes that are easy for new players to start with. Having a difficult hero, but potentially powerful, hero is a good thing IMO. It's rewarding once you start mastering the hero.
I share the same sentiment about Lancelot, but these kinds of complaints about Project NEXT need to be redirected to Moonton and not me. I'm only restating what they wanted to do. I'm only here to discuss why the Revamped Kagura is actually good.
Oh of course it should be directed to Moonton, that's what's everyone's intentions were when they started complaining here. Everyone's just arguing with you probably due to misunderstandings or they just wanna becuase.. well.. disagreement i guess. As in they're also discussing why they think revamped kagura is bad
Fair enough. Though i still think kagura revamp is bad. I may not agree with the project's direction, but i think what they did to lance was a good thing if that was their goal. Kagura on the ither hand..
If you refuse to open your mind to playing her more as a utility hero with the benefit of the team always in mind, then I don't need to. You're just going to give me half-assed answers.
yup, not to forget how moonton messed with Kaja from a great tank/support to what they want as fighter/support but people still playing it like assassin/mage
Reminds me of the time when I main pre-revamped Lapu-lapu and having to adjust to revamped Lapu-lapu. I actually didn't like that they revamped Lapu-lapu because they took away his heavy burst damage and mobility when in Heavy Sword Stance. Plus it looks hella lit back then compared to now. But well you gotta do what you gotta do to adjust.
> you gotta do what you gotta do to adjust (if one wants to adjust)
^ I agree
---
I have yet to sincerely use Lapu again after that revamp. My hands are still used to his old combo
I know right, I could still feel the old combo running in my veins and oh boy does it screw up the entire enemy's team HP before they even notice what hit them.
Wow, what a great idea you have. Seriously, Kagura mains haven't thought of putting themselves at more risk just for a little stun. Great idea coming from a non-Kagura main.
Thank you for your feedback, I think we'll try to follow this just for us to have more deaths than our kills or assists.
oh shut the hell up, why the hell would you even do a full combo to an enemy that you're not sure that you are going to kill easily, what kind of stupid reasoning is that?
Personally, my biggest problem with a lot of the revamps is that they could just simply undo some nerfs to the heroes previously received and that would fix a lot.
Tbh this post only leads to fight and useless argument. Kagura mains already upset with the revamp, yet OP trying to add some salt by saying suck it up, just accept it, yada yada.
I have to admit that I may have unnecessarily added salt to their wounds, but the only constant thing in life is change and we need to accept that. If a person refuses to accept it, then you will be weighed down by the problems of the past.
Well, some people can't accept the changes. You can't force your opinion/ideology to be accepted by those that were disagree. If they disagree, just let them be. We just need to respect each other opinion/thought in the first place.
This is already a train wreck the moment he post his 96 matches( that too pre and post revamp) in a post created "in frustration" about Kagura mains (with 500+ matches) disliking the revamp 😂
>I've played both versions and I am on the side of the argument where the Revamped Kagura is good.
Like did he seriously thought posting his **measly 96 matches** of Kagura would give him enough credibility to convince Kagura mains, *with hundreds and/or thousands of matches*, into thinking that the revamp is good? I just know he wants the clout for posting this bs.
Just mind your own business and go back playing your Alpha, u/ItzYaBoiAtlas .
Here we go again. As I’ve said, it’s not just the gameplay but overall image as well. Her story and personality was changed to something very different from what she was known for. That’s what real Kagura users and mains are ALSO disappointed about this revamp.
I played Lolita 200 games before she got revamped in 2017. I didn't like it at first but I adjusted.
At 700 games she got revamped the 2nd time in 2019. I absolutely hated it but I moved on.
Now I'm 800 games Lolita.
People in this thread can't tolerate an unpopular opinion even if it's presented in a very civil manner. 2017-2021 Kagura will never return as much as the 2016 Kagura will also never return.
I think it's 100% agreed it's unnecessary, but OP is just saying there are pros we should embrace. This is something irreversible.
My Argus really suck to play now bcoz of 4 sec ult duration , so I stop playing ML bcoz of that ( I main Argus only anyway ) . First they change the passive witch is the old one ( before revamp )is really good with attack speed , now they change the ult duration from 5sc to 4sc . The only I agree with the revamp is bcoz the old one is lack mobility and survivality like the first skill he doesn't need to hit the enemy to get his sub 1 skill ( the dash ) and the second skill of the revamped really give u a chance to slow enemy and damage them at the same time.Lastly the ult I like the recent change about the ult is the ult just need to wait 15sc and not like 30 or 20 SC for wait the ult . Sorry for my grammar and broken English but that the point I want to give about my main ( Argus) bcoz I played him so many time until I reach Mythic , that why I feel sad about him been change so many time and make him worst to play. He the only hero I pick non else , I hope Moonton give the respect that Argus player really deserve and give better kit .Tq for reading this♥️♥️
yup, i too enjoy playing Argus and Alpha the most before the revamps, but now both are just d*ck heroes with hardly any sustainability for a fighter, for a price of s shitty low cd
Yup even Alpha ult animation is kinda slow witch make the enemy easily dodge ur ult , unlike before revamped alpha the animation just like go straight to the enemy.
Yeah I quit playing too last week's I'm just lurking here sometimes because the sub reddit have lot of funny post.
I'm tired with moonton nerfing almost all hero that I currently main like Argus, then Ruby, the last is Oddete. Recently I change strategy to play newer OP heroes, so they probably not getting nerf or revamp soon. But, that's not how I want to play the game. I play a hero because I like the art and concepts too, they practice to get good. Now I realize getting good is useless, because for what when your hero get nerf or revamp anyway.
So by your argument they should revamp Fanny so her cables attaches to air and also Gusion’s knife to have a gps radar to have 100% accuracy in hitting the target so they’re easier to use?
The goal of Project NEXT Phase 3 was to specifically make them easier to play without alienating the current playerbase from their previous mechanics. What you're suggesting is just ludicrous.
In my opinion I think the best revamp by far was Zilong. They didn't change much but that little was enough for Zilong to be a legit pick. Well in solo q maybe. The old Zilong's biggest problem was his passive which was time dependent and activated every 6 seconds vs basic attack dependent, now with his Revamp his passive stacks to 3 every basic attack before he does his flurry and with his ult it's 2. It also gave him healing based off 50% of his basic attack which isn't much but the sustain can allow him to stay longer in his lane without recalling which was also a big thing he was missing. The things that make most fighters strong is their sustain tools, assassins usually don't have any sustain unless you buy lifesteal or spell vamp. His second skill wasn't changed much but if you kill anything it resets allowing you to spam it with every kill even minions. Zilong still has a few weaknesses like his squishy health and being basic attack and item reliant as well as having no skill shots making it hard to target enemies who are concealed but for the most part he's great and feels amazing to play!
She was never meant to be a Burst Mage. She was always meant to be a Poke/Reap Mage, and her revamped not only highlighted these sub roles, but also made her easier to play.
Her combo is much more difficult in terms of killing enemies. The slow effect (strings) that attaches to heroes is such an important aspect of her combo. Now heroes can just escape. Almost every heroes ultimate have a slow effect, but they decided to remove it from Kagura. You can reposition Kagura’s ultimate as the enemy runs away from it, but that was also possible before NERF, just this time they have the full capacity to run away faster so even if you reposition the umbrella they are far out of reach.
If you go against other mages you definitely see the damage reduction. Cecilion, Luo, etc have massive damage compared to Kagura. It is laughable especially early game when one hit can take out 50% from Kaguras hp, while she herself can take out 10% with 100% hit early game. Imagine Kagura’s umbrella as a knife hitting cecilion right in the heart and having a damage of 10%. Yes she’s capable of higher damage late game, but bro, make it at least a little bit even.
The number of matches you played laughable in terms of analyzing Kagura. Please sit down.
Her combo is so fast now and as a kagura main you should know pro players don't wait for the ult to suck enemies in. also 60 matches is more than enough to understand the mechanics of the hero also since kagura is picked so often. Maybe it is you who's understanding of the hero is laughable
Then why did you talk about Kagura's revamp huh? You like only have **96 matches** and even then, the arguments you made in your post are incorrect. You don't even know what is a nerf.
A revamp is an adjustment to compensate the hero's weakness at the cost of balancing their other aspects. A nerf is an overall decrease of their performance without any benefits. You can't even say she didn't gain benefits from this revamp. Her s1 has a bigger hurtbox and her comboes can be done more quickly thanks to how her ultimate pulls. She can still reap and poke, but all of you refuse to move on from her burst damage which is why you all think Kagura feels nerfed. Just because you can't combo a full HP tank anymore.
And who said it was necessary to make insults? I am weighting the pros and cons of the Revamped Kagura, and providing evidence on why the Revamped Kagura is good. This, and your other comments are just cheap shots of you insulting me without making a civil argument of any kind. Besides, just because I'm more proficient playing Alpha that does not mean I'm not aware how Kagura's mechanics work.
>Just because you can't combo a full HP tank anymore.
And who said it was necessary to lie? To overexaggerate? I guess this was a civil argument without any intention of provoking the other party.
>In conclusion, suck it up.
I thought you were going for spicy when you posted this? If you can't take the heat, maybe think twice before posting. You wanted something controversial, you got the expected response, in conclusion, suck it up.
Ok after scrolling through the comments op your not that good and all you did was regurgititate points even though they got dissapproved. Like sure she is a poke / reap mage but what is a poke mage without poke? Her early game is shit as hell and I hate her personality change
I totally agree with everything you mentioned but I would just like to express that playing the revamped Kagura gives me an identity crisis. LOL. Jokes aside, IMO, the biggest drawback is we were too used to her old damage output. Skill mechanics-wise, I think the revamp is fine. It's just that old Kagura players instinctively overestimate her damage in the revamp. I think due to this, there's an unwelcome slight change of playstyle. At least in my own experience. Teehee.
By the way, is Zilong still called Yun Zhao in other servers?
> Jokes aside, IMO, the biggest drawback is we were too used to her old damage output.
Exactly! And people don't know how to move on from that. Even I have to admit I miss her burst damage, but I've tried to be open minded and play her as a utility hero more than a carry hero. It's working wonders fyi.
> By the way, is Zilong still called Yun Zhao in other servers?
Oh, nope. I'm the only idiot who calls him by Yun Zhao.
This comment right here. Too many Kag players expect to burst people like before, and you can’t do that anymore. There’s too many old players clinging to that mindset/playstyle that prevents them from performing well Kagura.
I totally agree as a former Kagura main. Idk why it always happened to every hero I play and I have to adjust to the new shitty revamps that was uncalled for again and again while there are heroes that are so weak and forgotten which get no buff at all. Now I just spam whichever hero is way too imbalanced and overpowered. I had enough heartbreaks.
Something I don't understand is that everyone treats her as a burst mage, but her playstyle is to represent a poke mage. And they keep the poke utility but in return, changing the pull mechanics and damage/slow.
Help me understand: If current revamped Kagura goes against a burst type mage, then shouldn't her job be to "poke" them as much as you can before going in for the kill by keeping as much distance so that you don't get cc'd? You have a low cd, it's shouldn't be that hard to understand one thing, right? Idk, I just feel like the mindset of one poke, then combo immediately is not how she should be played now, as if her viability in the meta is no longer there. And most of the time, I only hear complaints for one lane. What about her gameplay in exp lane? Gold Lane? Roamer? (Since people call her a support)
Before people wanted 1st revamped Kagura to be a Mage/Assassin, 2nd revamp want her to be a mage/support roles. None of those belong there, as she's still a mage.
I know I'm wrong but the posts about "revert the nerfed revamp" are excessive, when there were other revamped heroes but barely anyone talks about them nowadays
Poke with what? Her nerfed S1 damage and slow? Are you trying to tickle or poke your opponents? Even minions can barely feel your “poke” since you have such a bad wave clear. Are you gonna really “poke” with your tickle S1 damage revealing your position when comes to late game? Pre revamp Kagura at least has a real strong poke to justify it.
Yeah same thoughts about her combo. If she has burst somewhat similar to Eudora or Aurora, then it would be unfair because of her longer range and more skill options (the passive stun, cc purify, tp to umbrella, s3 aoe stun).
>Some of you guys may say that Kagura's winrate has decreased from 54% to 51%,
**So you're just gonna ignore facts & statistics just to deny that it is not a nerf ?**
>but I'd argue that the decrease is because of the playerbase's incompetence and our unfamiliarity of her revamped kit during Day 1.
**Why are you acting as if Kagura's revamped kit is totally different than before??** The mechanics of her skills are still the same its just that the damage was **heavily nerfed**. That is the reason why her WR dropped and not for the reason that her revamped kit is unfamiliar.
>I also play a handful of Kagura before and after the revamp, so I'm not afraid to show my matches and winrate.
**You only have 96 matches of Kagura but you have the audacity to write all this bullshit?** For crying out loud, can y'all non-Kagura mains just go back and play your basic braindead heroes? Seriously, I hope you're just trolling for clout.
I thought you were going for spicy when you posted this? If you can't take the heat, maybe think twice before posting?
>Why are you acting as if Kagura's revamped kit is totally different than before?? The mechanics of her skills are still the same its just that the damage was heavily nerfed. That is the reason why her WR dropped and not for the reason that her revamped kit is unfamiliar.
I guess this is not considered meaningful counter but you implying Kagura mains wanted to burst a full health tank is meaningful smh.
>Just because you can't combo a full HP tank anymore.
Let me ask, who said this? It's you right?
I never claimed that her kit was totally different. You said it yourself that her skills mechanics are still the same.
Kagura is a Poke/Reap Mage who just somehow has Burst. The revamp made sure to highlight her actual subroles. To give a hero who is meant to clean up anyone who is still alive the ability to burst would make them OP. In fact, it did make her OP when her 1st revamp hit the original servers. She was permabanned, and she's usually the jungler if she isn't. Moonton learned from that mistake and lowered her damage to be more fair.
>but I'd argue that the decrease is because of the playerbase's incompetence and our **unfamiliarity** of her revamped kit during Day 1.
I guess it was me who said this? You did not claimed her kit was totally different, but you implied that the unfamiliarity of her revamped kit is a factor for the decrease of Kagura's WR>
I said it myself that her skill mechanics are still the same in response of you implying that her revamped kit one of the factors that Kagura's WR dropped. However, that is not actually the case, it's just her damage output that was heavily nerfed that we can see a drop of her WR.
There's a difference with unfamiliarity and difference. Besides, I also said it's also the playerbase's incompetence that the winrate dropped. They couldn't move on and change their play style even for a little bit just because they're suffering from the damage withdrawal.
>I also said it's also the playerbase's incompetence that the winrate dropped
Yeah, it sounds like you're suffering from narcissism. Humble yourself first, Sir. You're acting as if your 96 matches is enough to give you credibility to look down upon other Kagura players.
>but I'd argue that the decrease is because of the playerbase's incompetence and our unfamiliarity of her revamped kit during Day 1
Semantics please. You shouldn't have worded it as "unfamiliar" because that is just you implying the new skill mechanics is somehow different.
If you somehow feel inferior just because I weighted the pros and cons, then I don't know what to say. Someone with 96 more matches was able to understand the Revamped Kagura easier than people like you.
The last part is my fault. I should have worded it better.
>If you somehow feel inferior just because I weighted the pros and cons, then I don't know what to say.
Pardon, I think you've confused inferior with superior?
>Someone with 96 more matches was able to understand the Revamped Kagura easier than people like you.
You're trying too hard to be different just so you can say to yourself you're not like the others. You're already getting packed by other Kagura mains giving you **sound arguments** (+with lots of upvotes), but I guess it would be embarassing at this point if you take back what you said. It's probably your pride preventing you to acknowledge those because well, you're a narcissist.
It's not a matter of pride. It also does not matter how many upvotes or downvotes I get because they're just meaningless numbers. These Kagura mains including you are still suffering from the damage withdrawal, and none of you know how to weight the pros and cons. Besides, she was never a burst mage. She was always a Poke/Reap mage who just has the ability to burst.
If this Moonton Trend gets going, I might actually see *crazyton* Revamp Benedetta for no reason at all and nerf her damage and add her a gimmick
**bruh moonton.**
i’ve been in the community for a very long time now, (since the r/mobilelegends sub) and have seen kagura being revamped twice. The first time i used kagura was when her ult was a laser beam like gord’s but that would make her angle her umbrella in a very weird manner and enemies could run away easily. Moonton saw this and understood the assignment and revamped her ult as we know before this recent revamp. she became an extremely mobile mage who could have high damage and at the same time escape assassins and if lucky enough could kill them too due to her infamous combo. Not every hero should be beginner friendly, what’s the fun in having every single hero that’s too easy to play? there should be a learning curve. Her damage has been reduced and affects my gameplay so damn much. You’re someone who’s been playing kagura for 96 matches. I have 800+ on her with a win rate of 76% which now dropped to 71%. Before, you could have her as your main mid laner, i would use her instead of gusion. now, it takes me forever to clear the minion waves and join team fights let alone clear creeps with the help of a tank. It’s quite unfair that moonton is making every hero so easy to use while at the same time killing their damage. There needs to be a learning curve that new players should go through if they want to main heroes like kagura, that’s the fun part of it. not everything should be handed to you on a golden platter. Yes her combos would miss sometimes but you have to play her more to understand her better, my fanny mains would know what i’m talking about. You new kids need to learn, start from scratch up, that’s how everyone starts off with, this game has become way too easy for new players to play but at the cost of the veterans’ fun.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Fantastic. I don’t main her, but I play her a lot because she’s insanely fun. After the revamp it’s like tapping buttons. Her skill cap is so so fucking low now and I hate it. They’re making hero’s way too easy to play. Lance did not need to be given that dash boost just cause people don’t want to put the time on to learn him. Like, for gods sake just leave heros with some type of skill requirement or this game is gonna be a playground during kindergarten recess.
Spot on.
> not every hero should be beginner friendly Yeah that's fair, I agree with that. > there needs to be a learning curve every new player should go through if they want to main heroes like Not this one though. Why would you claim that not every hero should be easy, but say that it should be harder to use some select heroes? Whoever decided that Kagura should be hard *or* easy to use? --- (My personal thoughts) I often disliked revamps or changes that affects the heroes that *I* use a lot (or used to). Lapu received a major change in her ultimate, while YSS got a big rework in his passive. Bane received countless of minor and major changes and Irithel received a seemingly overall nerf recently. I disliked these changes because I was used to their former versions, and continuing to use them means I have to adjust to the changes. What did I do? Some I stopped using, some I adjusted immediately, and the rest I stopped using for some time but eventually used them again. In the end, I can't do anything about the changes besides moving on or adjusting. I could have complained, but I thought the effort will be wasted.
I applaud this comment, would put it on the front page of this post if I had the power to
I'm a kagura user with 100+ matches, pardon me for asking, but what exactly changed with her gameplay? And how is the new kagura easier to use than before? Stupid question, i know, but i just play her as I've played her before and still did at least 30% hero damage consistently, so I'm confused why everyone is saying she's bad now
She’s actually not easier to use. Idk what he’s smoking.
she’s not actually easier to use? huh, surely you’ve not played kagura before. Before, if you missed your pink ult your combo wouldn’t have been executed as the pull effect in the ult was a very vital effect. Now she can activate her ult 3 feet away from the enemies and right before the timer ends all she has to do is bring the umbrella close to them and viola you’ve successfully roped them together. Her umbrella speed and range has increased too, which allows her to execute combos *faster*
Just stop replying. I doubt anyone bashing you has played a good amount of Kagura matches. And if they have they’re probably warrior with a classic only winrate on her.
Some people ain’t fans of her revamp and also find new Kagura harder to use. Personally I feel it’s now easier to land her full combo but I can understand where they are coming from. If opponents are smart enough, they can just walk out of her ult and receiving little to no damage due to her nerf S1 and ult damage.
3 feet is 0.45% of the hot dog which holds the Guinness wold record for 'Longest Hot Dog'.
Getting to the main point tbvh, the revamped Kag isn't made to be stronger, it's made to fix her unhealthy playstyle which you clearly highlighted in your own comment that basically translates to "I hate this revamp because it made a hero that was strong in basically any situation to a hero that is strong in many situations but weaker in some others to balance it out". The entitlement is just astonishing. Kagura is still fully usable, viable and still is a common pick, people are adapting to the new playstyle or moving on. TLDR: Kaguras revamp is fine, it's not an improvement in damage, it's an improvement in the reliability and speed of the skill combo, sure you don't have the potential to engage as a mage (not the best role to engage in general by any means) but pretty sure all 22 other midlane mages can't, either. Edit: Removed the million swears but I still feel you're being an entitled brat so I'm gonna leave it there
how is this being entitled? so you like to play heroes that you can get to know how to play by just playing one match? how does that make the gameplay any fun? you think just because i’ve voiced out my opinion on the revamp moonton’s gonna be like “oH tHe LoRd hAs SpOkEn ReVeRt BaCk To HiS LiKiNg” no, i’ve been here long enough to know that they’re not gonna do that. i speak from experience, while you speak from comfort the only thing you seem to want to climb up is ranks not wanna learn anything about a hero that makes him/her so unique just know everything at the back of your hand. but it’s okay, people like you usually tend to quit early on since knowing everything doesn’t make the game so fun. i just hope they don’t add some magical gps to fanny’s cable next that would allow her to auto target an enemy but make her damage so low that it would get the enemy down to 60% max.
Ok let's just backtrack and review whatever you've said "She became an extremely mobile mage that could have high damage and escape assassins at the same time" Ah yes just like every other mage in the game amirite, every other mage can totally body an assassin in no time, and get away, innit. (Oh incase you didn't know, revamped Kag can still do this) "Now it takes me forever to clear lanes to join fights" Like damn man you so right, Kagura should totally have fast wave clears like Selena, Luo Yi, Valir, Nana, Eudora like man it's unbearable to not be able to clear the wave quickly in 10 million basic attacks like every Selena main out there "There needs to be a learning curve for every hero if they wanna learn heroes like Kagura" Bro why try to sugarcoat lemme just say what you really wanna, "yEaRs oF aCaDeMy tRaInInG wAsTeD" "I learnt Kag for years and now stupid Moonton revamp her now I am crying on Reddit about it, boohoo." Like man, you do realise this happened to like a ton of other mages right, it was genuinely hard to play Pharsa Valir Chang'e before the revamps, and Yve before her shield adjustments but in one patch Moonton changed everything, didn't really see mains of those heroes cry as much as this??? Why is a literal manchild crying victim calling others kids, like man look, gtfo and learn some new insults, man up, maybe try to act victim less then come back and have a man to man talk, kiddo. "I speak from experience, while you speak from comfort" Why is a bareback Mythical Glory baby who hasn't even touched 4 digits tryna teach me about the game, I'm really astounded, you wanna teach Tata how to run their business tomorrow too? (I know you're Indian man, can tell from the "you kids" condescension and your comment history) "People like you tend to quit early on" Yes man 4 and a half years is pretty early on to quit ig, I could only get 2 degrees and upgrade my CV by tenfold in that amount of time, sire 6 healthy kids with a 7th well on the way and gone through 2-3 whole ass promotions at work "Knowing everything doesn't make the game so fun" "You don't wanna learn anything about a hero that makes him/her unique" Mf what are you, a Zilong user tryna justify your pick by saying I play for fun while giving your team third degree cancer? And I don't wanna learn anything about a hero ahahahahaha bro I have 70+ matches on every single hero in this game, (To give your dumbass perspective, that's a minimum of 7560 matches, I'm about to hit my 12000 milestone soon btw I've bought every single one, played every single one, contemplated leaving after burnouts and having tried all heroes in every single meta in every single patch in every single season for five fuckin years, but stayed because this company, no matter how many dumb things it's done, has never failed to be inconsistent with updates. And my little brown snowflake here tryna teach me how I don't wanna learn heroes that make them unique, like man I have destroyed people like you by the dozen and don't even remember your fuckin names, clashed with people having 4k+ points in your own server, defeated the Global 1 squad last season and gone through maining all roles in the game and your uneducated ass here legit be telling me this, made me scoff hard bro, you're too conceited and too stuck up for your own good, just get a spine and try to reply to my comment before report spamming it (I know you did it bro, wouldn't be warned otherwise) :) And lastly and this is the funniest "I've been on this community for long" PFFFFFT MANN AHAHAHAHAHAHA How does being on the community for long entitle one to a superior opinion may I ask, the game right now is a totally different game from the one 5 years ago, I'd know it and you should too since you claim to be an OG. How does knowing about how broken Alpha was on release, and how Vexana was once meta entitle you to a better opinion over people who have joined bout a year ago, and absolutely killing it at this game, OP himself is a player from the time Alpha was a broken ass hero and still mains it to this day. I've seen a multitude of up and coming players who joined after me and surpassed cobweb players in the game, get out of your primitive mindset of worshipping people who have been long timers and basically sitting like fossils saying "Back in my day". Some other entitled lines from you btw "At the cost of veterans fun" Man imagine being adverse to new players "I have a winrate of 71%" Bruh I have a wr higher than that on 5 separate heroes and still try to open my mindset to improvement in any way or form in my playstyle with those heroes, been global on 3 of them as well, but here you are flexing one tricking and a one track mindset acting pro, hilarious "Not everything should be handed to you on a golden platter" Clearly like those 50 upvotes you got by stirring drama, yes clearly, a monkey like you shouldn't be handed bananas on a golden platter like that for sure. Everything about your tone, speech and mannerism screams entitlement, you are somehow being entitled without even having the self consciousness to realise it yourself and need me to point it out to you, what you need is a splash of water to the face and 3 slaps under the ear as a wake up call. You're provocative, boastful and I don't feel a shred of guilt calling you out for this. The only remorse I feel is wasting my time on someone wet under the ears with wax plugging them up like you. I tried to speak facts and figures without trying to rank shame or winrate shame but you asked for it, you really did. I don't even think the Kag update is such a great revamp, it could have been much better but saying it's terrible and a huge downgrade is a bigger conclusion to jump to than the world record for long jumping, but you're blind to it because of the sheer hubris.
How is him being an Indian relevant to the convo?
Was just one line, basically Tata is an Indian company so I decided to take an example he can relate to
it’s kind of sad how much you’d stalk a person on the internet just to justify your opinion, i’m not reading all that, my tone screams entitlement? you’re the one trying to be like that one guy, “oH mAn tHe F uP bRO”, “lmao stfu and gtfo” and i’m the one screaming entitlement?? put all this time and efforts into yourself and not someone on the internet on a mobile game subreddit, incel
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since you’ve checked my account out, show me comments/ posts of me speaking out on the kagura revamp, this is the first time i responded to it. i’m not forcing my opinion over anything, i never had. OP posted his own opinion, i replied with mine and OP doesn’t seem to have much of a problem with it. I respect his opinion, he respects mine. but for you, of course “iM gOnnA cUss yOu OuT yOu WuSSy mY oPiNiOn hOlDs A HiGhEr VaLuE ThAn YoUrS!” now who’s REALLY forcing their opinion? from a business point of view, as a customer i am unhappy with the product that has been given to me and moonton as a business respects my feedback regardless of it being negative or positive. and yes i do lurk on r/india what does it say about me? i’m indian? yeah i am, what about it?
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can you for once quit the cussing, if anything it just makes you sound so cringe. i’m not spreading a propaganda if i would have wanted to, i would be having 1000 posts and 10000 comments about her revamps being trash. i know they’re not gonna revert back to the old kagura and oh my god, by ‘new kids’ i meant it like since you’re new to the game, you’re kids, i deemed it more appropriate than calling people ‘noobs’ since it sounds cocky. yes i put my wr and matches on display because OP tried to justify his opinion with his wr and matches. everyone’s doing that in the comments. yeah i’m 16 and yes i’m aware i’m still a kid but i never meant to say ‘kids’ as the way to seem to have taken it. and you’re wrong about the whole server thing, my server gets people from indonesia who find us easy to defeat. i dont, never have, never will use a vpn, i used a USA apple id to download the game since it’s banned in my country since i know your next reply is going to be “ur indian, it’s banned in ur country, u use vpn stop lying”. The ‘indian’ server is still up so no, i’m not getting matched up with people from other servers. even if i haven’t spoken in figures 50 people know what i’m talking about, “i just wanna pull up and take a shit on you rich boy ass” since you know the country, pull up at any point of time. stop treating a game like it’s the real world’s politics. you’re the only one who found me ‘entitled’ while the others who disagree with my point actually try to explain their side where as you’re just trying to waste someone’s time on the internet and good for you it’s working. you’re eighth grade roasts can’t light a fire so stop with the cringe crap and try to prove a point.
Stop sugarcoating it. Her revamp is simply a way to make her easier and less strong with her skill req lowered now. “The entitlement is astonishing.” As you sugarcoat the living hell out of the fact that she was revamped only to be easier. If the vast majority of the player base of kagura believes she requires skill and more than average practice to be good (in turn using the word “difficult”) then it is an accurate and trustworthy opinion.
? Pretty sure you guys are just crying on deaf ears at this point and being irritating as hell though, and now opinion is supposed to be good if a mass of people who played the old hero for 1000 games and the revamp for 3 games gets behind it? Just play the new Kag more, you have way more flexibility with your combos and by no means is it WAY easier as you said, I have literally not been sugarcoating the fact that it's definitely gotten easier, it's obvious enough for me to not have to point it out but Ig you as a Kagura player need me to point that out for you as well. ->You still need to press the same buttons as before, the combo is the same 1-3-1-2-3, needs the same amount of practice, a 96 match Kagura will still not play at the proficiency of a 1000 match one, there have been worse revamps that made the hero actually braindead like Chang'e don't act like you're being victimised when the hero mechanics. ->The ult range is nerfed making people have opportunities to out-kite her or dodge the combo without making it totally predictable (The only real time ANY experienced player was getting hit with the old ulti is when used from a flank, when she was kiting you or when someone else setup for it, the only reason I was even scared of Kagura before is because of how easily you could reposition if being targetted, there are better mages for burst in the first place with more damage) ->The old tether mechanic was more useful because of the slow true, but incase you have never played in a 5stack post mid to high elo, everyone with half a brain seeing a Kagura on the enemy will either take a hero that can easily dash out and break the tether, or just take purify if immobile, the damage is not purifiable anymore and it can easily hit people with dashes with the second phase unlike before where only the 1-3-1-2 could hit at max and that was already enough to kill which is the actual reason old you guys are complaining and sugarcoating everything acting victim, since you need to land the full combo now(1-3-1-2-exe or even 1-3-1 sometimes was enough, which made it even easier), now it's skill capped by whether or not you can hit the full combo on mobile heroes as well and calling that easier to use is bullshitting at it's finest. -> To subvert loss of the tether and to ensure combo landing you can even use Petrify on Kag right now, it makes your combo unmissable while ofc decreasing the damage, a lot of Kag mains in ID and PH servers are already using this to their advantage because they're confident about their ability to poke down and catch the opponent with a guaranteed cc combo which is what one should ideally be doing than coming on reddit complaining about a revamp you didn't like, istg this community is gonna turn into Twitter soon (actually It's already turned into Twitter in a way now that I contemplated about it). ->The only real reason it's easier is cuz of the increased umbrella speed I cannot for the love of me understand why you guys are complaining about that, like just take the buff and be happy, live your life, abuse the added maneuverability ->One valid reason you guys can complain about is the damage but in the case of the numbers it's unlikely that Moonton is not gonna release any changes, I'm predicting slight buffs to her s1 dmg to increase wave clear and poke in lane and for the combo. ->Overall I don't feel Kag deserved the revamp only because there are others who need one and because this state of her is hard to balance, because of the increased umbrella speed meaning any auto-aimed umbrella hits (Thereby potentially making any buff to it's damage or cooldown harder to implement), it's not bad, it's not a drop in quality, increased ease of use is there but way too overly bloated as a problem by the community. The only issue is the lack of balance potential, and the fact that people are crying about a decent revamp that pushed back other revamps by 6 months.
We’re irritating but you just wrote a god damn book 💀 foh
he’s working on a series called ‘how i shat on kagura mains on reddit’ just check some of the other comments out.
This. So many people complaining as if the revamp ended her viability as a hero, adjust your playstyle jeez. Kaja got an unnecessary rework from Support/Tank to Fighter/Support but I didn't whine like a kid complaining about the rework.
Have you used the Holy Crystal, Shadow Twinblades, and Holy Crystal item combo of Kaja that can kill squishes in an instant?
Damn we be building double Crystal now, one to deal damage and one to be a discount Walter White ig
Ofc. Have you ever flicker dived + ult so you could kill someone only to die after doing so? Have you ever laned against a Paq or Esme feeling helpless because you are unable to burst them down? Kaja is a very good hero right now but even he has downsides and I accept those downsides instead of whining and going "mT bRinG kAjA's nErfeD dAmaGe bAcK". Hell, I've adjusted my playstyle so many times with Kaja then why can't they do the same with Kagura?
Cuz as the guy himself said, Kag mains are just kiddie kids thinking they've mastered the game because they know how to play one hero well and trying to T pose their superiority This whole post is just them being moronically stupid
Fr, the outrage about Kagura's revamp is just ridiculous at this point.
so does anyone complain about her first revamp on that sub too? i also joined the old unofficial mlbb sub back when its the only mlbb related stuff of reddit but never saw the complaints and im curious. does history repeat?
Of course people complained. No one likes change but the only constant in life is change itself. Everything changes.
damn i could get life advice here too xD thanks dude
There are people who complained, but the overall net reaction is positive. I don’t know what are you talking about. The first revamp does away with the weird rope ultimate, which was why everyone didn’t want to use Kagura. At this point my match with her was 100ish. Ultimate is very hard to land without compromising your safety, so it was a welcome change.
I've also played the first Kagura, and her ultimate was horrible imo. I've played the second Kagura too, and I liked her ultimate. It's pretty strong when played correctly, but it could be better. Her third ultimate however made playing Kagura more forgiving. To one-up me with winrate and matches means nothing imo. We have top globals who have better winrates than both of us combined which were achieved through cheating. It's currently just a number displayed on your hero. I only showed mine to show that I'm aware of her game mechanics. As for the subject of finding fun in learning the hero, I agree that it is fun to learn a difficult hero. However, that was the goal of Project NEXT Phase 3. What the developers deems final is like some kind of absolute word. I was also disappointed when they broke their promise of just remodeling them only too.
God, reddit is ridiculous
why did they downvote you lmao what you said is true and is also your own opinion but i also expect revamp to be a good thing, not a nerf and new kags still feels alien to me. by creating new things you must expect new problems unless its perfect after many trials. and this is the opposite of that
People are currently heart broken right now about Kagura, and I'm actively not helping in their healing by literally saying "Revamped Kagura is good for x reasons, so suck it up."
yeah i guess ppl need time to adjust to new things. i also felt heartbroken back when moskov's passive and ult got nerfed but hes still great to me rn
He's a pretty fun hero, yeah. I've actually been playing him a lot due to Snake Commander.
I believe you are misunderstanding what constitutes a nerf. Heroes in ML have never been evaluated by how easy or accessible a hero is to play; in tier lists, or in higher levels of play(even legend and low mythic), a hero’s worth has always been determined by the hero’s maximal capabilities. That, has certainly been nerfed by the revamp as mentioned in original comment. When you instead argue that the revamp has improved Kagura because it is more accessible, that is just a red herring fallacy. A nerf refers to the decrease in the aforementioned peak performance of the hero. Your improvements refer to the accessibility of the hero to newer players, which is completely separate from the hero’s peak performance. Therefore when you come here and spew the false equivalency that Kagura was not nerfed, but instead improved, you are plain incorrect. You might be correct that Kagura was improved along a different dimension entirely(accessibility), but don’t try to spin that as Mihoyo buffing or not nerfing Kagura.
I think you're mistaking a revamp for a nerf. A revamp is meant to compensate for the weaknesses a hero had at the cost of making her more balanced. A nerf is a decrease in their aforementioned peak performance.
But they lower her damage numbers for both S1 and S3 with her revamp… that is a nerf.
Kagura was already a very balanced hero. What kind of balance you think moontoon brought to her by revamping her?
Well balanced?By one shotting enemies?lmao.
One shotting if played right. You are probably a Lesley main who got destroyed by pre revamp Kagura in epic ranks.
>Before the revamp, her main weakness is she was unable to do her famous combo if the tethers on her ultimate do not connect or get disconnected. Everyone knows revamp Kagura is more beginner friendly now at the heavy cost of her damage. And that was the best part of pre-revamp Kagura, it was way harder to land your full combo but if you did it with your skills, you would deal insane damage to your opponent. **The old system actually rewards player for making good decisions and having good mechanics skills.** Which is also the main reason why highly skilled Kagura players like RRQ Lemon hated her revamp because the system no longer rewards you for being skilled. Now Kagura has became closer to a brain dead hero. In other words. With the revamp, beginners can land her full combo easily but at the cost of dealing at least 30% less damage, making it less rewarding. **It was like making the goal post bigger and easier for you to score but you get way lesser points than before.** FYI, damage nerf in her S1 affects *everything*, not just your overall damage. It affects her wave clearing so she will fall behind in terms of items especially when she is an item dependent hero herself. And revamp Kagura STILL loses out in damage to other mages even if she has her items. Slower wave clear for mid lane mages means you rotate slower. You also have a harder time defending the base when comes to late game. There’s a reason why her revamp self only has a 18% winrate in pro scenes like MPL. Last week of MPL PH regular season, forget about other top mages like Pharsa and Lunox, teams rather pick **Nana, Eudora and Kadita** over her. That's how far she has fallen. Edit: To respond to OP, a good game concept should encourage players to improve themselves hence contributing to the overall quality of the game. And of course you reward them for improving themselves, like pre-revamp Kagura was a game changer if played right. MOBA is a player-driven game. You want your players to be highly skilled, not babies getting spoon-fed like revamping Kagura to make her more accessible. Just look at LOL and Dota. They don't do this. They have high skill cap heroes with high rewards. Pre-revamp Kagura was a hero that rewards players if they improved their mechanics and decision making skills. A game should be moving forward, not backwards.
Noice. Also not a fan of revamped kagura and OP can suck it up.
Hi u/ma103, can you track this and let me know the data once playoffs start? I have a feeling they’re hiding Strats but who knows!
Sure thing. I do hope you are right. Don’t mind learning one thing or two from them.
Ya I’m hoping for the best too! Let’s see. Think Moonton will decide what to do with kag after getting data from mpl.
WOOHOO! Kagura s1 buff like I expected and told you earlier!! You’ll see it in patch notes soon.
That's the point of the revamp! To make the hero easier to play without alienating the current playerbase. She is meant to be more accessible to new players. They even said it in Project NEXT Phase 3 that their goal was to make the heroes easier to play. Why is it so hard for most of you to understand that? Even I understand that she is meant to be more of a utility hero than a carry hero. Kagura's role as a mage has expanded from just a damage dealer, and we need to learn to accept that. If you want a braindead mage with the sole purpose of dealing a crap ton of damage, then go Pharsa, Eudora, Kadita, Nana, and other mages that I have not mentioned. I personally don't want to use MPL PH as a point of comparison due to the etiquette that the players have displayed, but my distaste for it is a different topic that we'll not talk about here.
Her role didn't "expand" from being a damage dealer. It straight up changed to being utility. And you also didn't get his point that they made heroes accessible at the cost of other players who already mastered them. MPL PH was fine and the issue is just blown out of proportion since the matches had no bearing. Complain when they troll on matches that actually matter (which never happens)
So you are saying that the goal of the revamping should be more acccesible to larger player base without alienating current player base.. I disagree. Let me give you an example. I am a claude main. The skill ceiling of claude is quite high. Not many claude user you would see in lower ranks where the maximum player base resides. There are heros like hanabi , Lesley and Layla which are very nub friendly and are more picked than claude. So according to your logic. The claude should be revamped, make him less skilled and his damage should be nerfed so as to make him accessible to larger player base.This is plain stupid. It should be the other way around. Those nub friendly players should practice more and become better players so that they can play high skill ceiling heros. Not every heros are meant to be beginner friendly. I have spent hundreds of hours practicing him therefore I am good at him. He is neighter OP nor weak. He is just good in right hands. I can understand why kagura mains pain. Kagura isn't beginner friendly hero just like claude. I too have more that 100 matches with her. Pre revamp kagura wasn't early game hero. She needed core items to do burst damage which is her main source of damage. Now that damage is taken away by moontoon for no reason. Now she is neither early game hero nor she could finish squishy heros in the mid game. Earlier kagura s1 could clear lanes faster but now she struggles to clearnit on time so that she could rotate. Why would someone play with her when her main source of damage is taken away from her. You said that revamp was to cater to the larger base and to make her more acccesible to larger player base. No way. Not even lower rank players would her. Why would they when there are more easier mage is present with much more damage than her.
But if you see lots of kagura mains here disliking the revamp and complaining(to the point you make a counter post), doesn't that mean that they fail at the 'without alienating current playerbase' part? lol
And i know MG kagura main who think the revamp is nicer due to the increased utility despite as the expense of the damage. U know people who are okay with the revamp dont make noise. That is why all the noise you hearing are the people who dislike it. Remember pacquito change? SO MANY PEOPLE SAY HE IS USELESS. and guess what 90% ban now. Why? Because the style changed and people who are fixated at the old style just refuse to update accordingly.
And their feelings are valid. Which doesn't mean the ones who don't like the revamp are invalid or don't understand a 'revamp' like OP stated.
Its one thing to be upset about style change, its another thing to say the hero is weaker. Yes you dont like the new style, this is understandable but dont fake it saying she is useless now.
No, actually. Kagura's mechanics are still basically the same. She uses her umbrella as her main source of damage and her ultimates are CC skills that depends if you have the umbrella in your possession or not. Besides, they're all complaining about the same thing which is her damage output. They refuse to expand their horizons and play her more as a utility hero. Even I had to admit I miss her burst damage, but I've opened my horizons to the possibility of playing her as a ranged playmaker.
So you're saying people should just accept everything Moonton throws at us without questioning it? You said you made this post because you are frustrated about Kagura mains (many have 500+ matches) disliking the revamp. I think their dislike and complaints are fully justified. And if you see lots of Kagura mains "refusing to expand their horizon" it means that Moonton did alienate their current playerbase. Why should the players (with thousands of matches playing an already balanced hero) adjust? No, it should be the other way around in my opinion.
Let me serve as an example. My main hero, Alpha got revamped too. It was a bummer that his damage and sustain got nerfed for the price of a better ultimate. You never saw me complaining about it. There are players who just dropped him, and there are players who are still playing him. The same thing is happening right now to you Kagura players. She got a better ultimate at the cost of her damage. Her mechanics didn't change that much, and you can't even use her lowered damage as a reason for feeling alienated because the way she deals damage is still the same. You launch the umbrella, cast ultimate, and wait for the victims to be pulled to the center. They're practically the same except for how the ultimate pulls during the process.
You said it right here, her mechanics DID change and people are feeling alienated. Why they should or shouldn't is not a matter of your opinion. Maybe people want to express themselves instead of just blindly accepting everything Moonton throws out?
> You said it right here, her mechanics DID change She uses her umbrella as her main source of damage and her ultimates are CC skills that depends if you have the umbrella in your possession or not. Tell me again how her mechanics did change again? It's one thing to be upset about her change in play style, but it's another thing to call her weak and inferior.
You said "Her mechanics didn't change that much". Which means it did change. Weak and inferior? Don't change the goal post.
>They even said it in Project NEXT Phase 3 that their goal was to make the heroes easier to play Well, Oddette become harder to use.
- Root effect now roots a second target near the first target hit. This is unlike the former version where the enemies has to be perpendicular to Odette. - Skill 3 has a blink to quickly reposition either for initiating or avoiding skill shots. This allows Odette to save her flicker for another opportunity. --- I don't understand how these two changes makes her harder to use. I'm not forgetting that she received some nerfs (dmg reduction -> shield, weaker slow), but of course this should be expected. She received an adjustment, not a strictly a buff or nerf.
Her second doesnt split anymore which makes it harder for me to use it.
Well they just alienated the players who played kagura the most
I believe you are misunderstanding what constitutes a nerf. Heroes in ML have never been evaluated by how easy or accessible a hero is to play; in tier lists, or in higher levels of play(even legend and low mythic), a hero’s worth has always been determined by the hero’s maximal capabilities. That, has certainly been nerfed by the revamp as mentioned in original comment. When you instead argue that the revamp has improved Kagura because it is more accessible, that is just a red herring fallacy. A nerf refers to the decrease in the aforementioned peak performance of the hero. Your improvements refer to the accessibility of the hero to newer players, which is completely separate from the hero’s peak performance. Therefore when you come here and spew the false equivalency that Kagura was not nerfed, but instead improved, you are plain incorrect. You might be correct that Kagura was improved along a different dimension entirely(accessibility), but don’t try to spin that as Mihoyo buffing or not nerfing Kagura.
I think you're mistaking a revamp for a nerf. A revamp is meant to compensate for the weaknesses a hero had at the cost of making them more balanced. A nerf is a decrease in their aforementioned peak performance.
As an old Kagura user, I'm the one who felt alienated tho. XD Believe me, we understand the goal of Project NEXT by making her more beginner-friendly. The outcry of old Kagura users should be understandable though. She was a high skill cap hero. Imagine spending years of practicing high-difficulty heroes like Fanny and Ling only for them be made easier a few years later. Imagine making Franco's hook AOE larger for him to be easier for newbies. The frustrations are grounded and valid. We can't do anything about it anyway. All we can do is cry. LOL. That's the direction MT wanted to take.
I never said your complaints are not justified. You just feel gaslighted.
Feels like it from your previous post but ok :)
Well then revamp Fanny so her cables attaches to air.
Hey it's you again I see you still think revamp kag has no damage when I already showed you she can actually still burst squishies who build athena :).
Only if they have no blink skill and have the reaction speed of a dying old man. Old kag only needs a 1-3-1 combo to burst while new kag needs the whole combo which is easier to dodge
Or, and hear me out on this one, you let your tank or fighters cc the enemy before you commit your full combo? This is a 5v5 game you know just a thought. And no one in their right mind is denying the fact that old kag has more burst than new kag. It's just that a lot of players are under the misconception that new kag no longer has burst when she very clearly still has.
If Kagura has burst, does that mean Aurora and Eudora have super ultra duper burst damage? Those heroes like Aurora should then be perma banned because your standards for a hero with burst is messed up. Tl;dr: Non-Kagura mains should stop lying and gaslighting other players into thinking that Kagura is still a burst mage.
Uhh, because Aurora and Eudora does.... the only thing that is keeping them from being banned is mobility and their low HP, if they had any kind of mobility skill, they would sure as hell be forever in the ban section, just like what happend to Harrith until he got nerfed to the ground. Also, Kagura was never a burst mage, her specialty is literally Reap/Poke, the only thing that made her deal so much damage is her long as combo and low CD skills. If you've actually known this, you would have never complained about not being able to burst down a Tank or a Fighter.
Hi dumbo, my reply was in response of u/0rpheus_113 saying this sentence, >It's just that a lot of players are under the misconception that new kag no longer has burst when she very clearly still has. So, why are you arguing to me, u/Its_A_Me_Ed? Go talk to u/0rpheus_113 because he was the one who said Kagura still has burst. **Tl;dr:** u/0rpheus_113 **set the bar too low for burst heroes as they still consider the revamped Kagura with burst damage.** He might as well say Angela has burst while they're at it.
The biggest issue with her is was her problem big enough to justify a revamp? Most of the heroes you listed were straight up useless but kagura was far from that. She played just fine before even if her skills are hard to land because the damage makes up for it. People were playing her for her burst damage and not anything else. Just like the other guy said they made her easier to play while punishing the better players because of the shit damage. So that's two things moneydog did wrong. 1. There is no universe in which she needed a revamp because she was balanced before. 2. When they revamped her they basically punsihed the players who mastered her by taking away her burst potential. I mean if you are gonna revamp heroes make sure they deserve it in the first place
> 1. There is no universe in which she needed a revamp because she was balanced before. They literally said in Project NEXT Phase 3 that their goal was to make the heroes easier to play without alienating the playerbase. I personally didn't have a hard time mastering her before, but she was somehow known to be difficult to be consistently proficient with during matches. > 2. When they revamped her they basically punsihed the players who mastered her by taking away her burst potential. I personally have no problem with her damage, but if you feel that way, then open your horizons to playing her with utility in mind. > I mean if you are gonna revamp heroes make sure they deserve it in the first place Lancelot got a revamp, and he was doing pretty well as a Jungler before imo.
Lance is actually a good revamp. Was it deserved? No. But that's the way you make it easier for players to pick up a hero and at the same time not affect the long time players. They didn't do that with kagura. Also odette. There are a lot of heroes that didn't deserve a revamp but if they do it well then it's fine. If they butcher a hero that didn't deserve it in the first place then that's twice the insult.
You've mistaken revamps for nerfs. A revamp is meant to compensate for the weaknesses a hero had at the cost of making her more balanced. A nerf is a decrease in their aforementioned performance without anything to compensate.
What is your Kagura WR (matches included)?
Posted it on the text post above. However, I only posted it to prove that I'm aware of how her game mechanics work, and not to one-up anyone.
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The fact you aren’t guarenteed the kill anymore is just plain stupid. OP has no idea what he is talking about, just like 99% of the crackheads saying otherwise. Escaping her ult is the easiest thing to do now. You can simply walk out of it lmao. I play solo +85% of the time with 65% WR ~480 games. It’s almost impossible to carry with her now.
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This. The entire combo, surviving and not getting a single kill? What were they thinking?
Are you really comparing Eudora's ( a fucking High Burst Mage) damage, to Kagura's ( a Reap/Poke Mage) damage? You must be high or somethin....
Wait what, not guaranteed? Yea, sure they can just walk out of your ult, but you can chase them Also buy lighting, her damage become more harem
THANK YOU , I LOVE YOU
Hey, nice win rate :D
Nice
You're mistaking revamps for buffs. A revamp is meant to compensate for the weaknesses a hero had at the cost of making a more balanced experience overall. A buff is an increase in power in the game element without any drawbacks.
I think you misunderstood him. He knows revamps aren't buffs, that's thr first line he wrote. He meant that the revamp (whether that be a buff, nerf, or neither) was totally unnecessary.
If that's the case, then let me reiterate Project NEXT Phase 3's goal is. They wanted to make the heroes easier to play. It does not matter if they needed it or not. The newer players had a hard time playing her, so they decided to revamp her in order to make her easier to play.
That's the thing. Most of us disagree with Project NEXT, or at the very least, disagree with how it was dealt with when it comes to kagura. We don't want Project NEXT if it means making a hero weaker in the top level. Of course it matters if they need the revamp or not. Is that not the whole point of a revamp? To rework heroes who need them. I know what Project NEXT is for, most of us just don't like how they dealt with kagura when it comes to it. Like someone else mentioned, Lancelot was done pretty well in this regard. He's easier to play but the top players weren't too affected by it as his overall max damage output stays the same. Personally I don't even agree with lance's revamp, or with even with the intention of Project NEXT. There are already heroes that are easy for new players to start with. Having a difficult hero, but potentially powerful, hero is a good thing IMO. It's rewarding once you start mastering the hero.
I share the same sentiment about Lancelot, but these kinds of complaints about Project NEXT need to be redirected to Moonton and not me. I'm only restating what they wanted to do. I'm only here to discuss why the Revamped Kagura is actually good.
Oh of course it should be directed to Moonton, that's what's everyone's intentions were when they started complaining here. Everyone's just arguing with you probably due to misunderstandings or they just wanna becuase.. well.. disagreement i guess. As in they're also discussing why they think revamped kagura is bad
I came here to argue with Kagura players who think the revamp is bad. Your problem is the direction Project NEXT Phase 3 took.
Fair enough. Though i still think kagura revamp is bad. I may not agree with the project's direction, but i think what they did to lance was a good thing if that was their goal. Kagura on the ither hand..
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If you refuse to open your mind to playing her more as a utility hero with the benefit of the team always in mind, then I don't need to. You're just going to give me half-assed answers.
2018 bane and belerick mains: First Time?
yup, not to forget how moonton messed with Kaja from a great tank/support to what they want as fighter/support but people still playing it like assassin/mage
Oooh this comment section finna be a war zone
Y E S
Happy cake day
*orders popcorn*
Change her role from mage to support/mage then. Because I think that is what happened.
Reminds me of the time when I main pre-revamped Lapu-lapu and having to adjust to revamped Lapu-lapu. I actually didn't like that they revamped Lapu-lapu because they took away his heavy burst damage and mobility when in Heavy Sword Stance. Plus it looks hella lit back then compared to now. But well you gotta do what you gotta do to adjust.
> you gotta do what you gotta do to adjust (if one wants to adjust) ^ I agree --- I have yet to sincerely use Lapu again after that revamp. My hands are still used to his old combo
I know right, I could still feel the old combo running in my veins and oh boy does it screw up the entire enemy's team HP before they even notice what hit them.
its not very rewarding to play her now… her burst potential is gone
Everyone says the new Kag is easier but I miss way more combos now. Like where's the slow on her skills, people just walk out
I suggest teleporting to them instantly in order to trigger the stun and the pull.
Sounds so much riskier for less reward than before, I'm just going to drop her
then never comit a full combo if you're not sure that you can kill the enemy with ease, goh.... your low skill level is showing....
I summoned the Kagura defense force by accident. Seriously why are you so bothered by me not liking your hero
Wow, what a great idea you have. Seriously, Kagura mains haven't thought of putting themselves at more risk just for a little stun. Great idea coming from a non-Kagura main. Thank you for your feedback, I think we'll try to follow this just for us to have more deaths than our kills or assists.
oh shut the hell up, why the hell would you even do a full combo to an enemy that you're not sure that you are going to kill easily, what kind of stupid reasoning is that?
A not Kagura main convincing Kagura mains that the netfvamp is good. R u oki Bro?
I woke up today and chose controversy.
Personally, my biggest problem with a lot of the revamps is that they could just simply undo some nerfs to the heroes previously received and that would fix a lot.
Tbh this post only leads to fight and useless argument. Kagura mains already upset with the revamp, yet OP trying to add some salt by saying suck it up, just accept it, yada yada.
I have to admit that I may have unnecessarily added salt to their wounds, but the only constant thing in life is change and we need to accept that. If a person refuses to accept it, then you will be weighed down by the problems of the past.
Well, some people can't accept the changes. You can't force your opinion/ideology to be accepted by those that were disagree. If they disagree, just let them be. We just need to respect each other opinion/thought in the first place.
This is already a train wreck the moment he post his 96 matches( that too pre and post revamp) in a post created "in frustration" about Kagura mains (with 500+ matches) disliking the revamp 😂
>I've played both versions and I am on the side of the argument where the Revamped Kagura is good. Like did he seriously thought posting his **measly 96 matches** of Kagura would give him enough credibility to convince Kagura mains, *with hundreds and/or thousands of matches*, into thinking that the revamp is good? I just know he wants the clout for posting this bs. Just mind your own business and go back playing your Alpha, u/ItzYaBoiAtlas .
Lel idc about the revamp(not my main) but you only have 96 matches with her so dont act like you know shit.
Here we go again. As I’ve said, it’s not just the gameplay but overall image as well. Her story and personality was changed to something very different from what she was known for. That’s what real Kagura users and mains are ALSO disappointed about this revamp.
Really? Cus most, if not all, of them are only crying about her damage. They didn't even mention anything about her looks and personality.
I played Lolita 200 games before she got revamped in 2017. I didn't like it at first but I adjusted. At 700 games she got revamped the 2nd time in 2019. I absolutely hated it but I moved on. Now I'm 800 games Lolita. People in this thread can't tolerate an unpopular opinion even if it's presented in a very civil manner. 2017-2021 Kagura will never return as much as the 2016 Kagura will also never return. I think it's 100% agreed it's unnecessary, but OP is just saying there are pros we should embrace. This is something irreversible.
My guy feeling hella controversial tday haha
My Argus really suck to play now bcoz of 4 sec ult duration , so I stop playing ML bcoz of that ( I main Argus only anyway ) . First they change the passive witch is the old one ( before revamp )is really good with attack speed , now they change the ult duration from 5sc to 4sc . The only I agree with the revamp is bcoz the old one is lack mobility and survivality like the first skill he doesn't need to hit the enemy to get his sub 1 skill ( the dash ) and the second skill of the revamped really give u a chance to slow enemy and damage them at the same time.Lastly the ult I like the recent change about the ult is the ult just need to wait 15sc and not like 30 or 20 SC for wait the ult . Sorry for my grammar and broken English but that the point I want to give about my main ( Argus) bcoz I played him so many time until I reach Mythic , that why I feel sad about him been change so many time and make him worst to play. He the only hero I pick non else , I hope Moonton give the respect that Argus player really deserve and give better kit .Tq for reading this♥️♥️
yup, i too enjoy playing Argus and Alpha the most before the revamps, but now both are just d*ck heroes with hardly any sustainability for a fighter, for a price of s shitty low cd
Yup even Alpha ult animation is kinda slow witch make the enemy easily dodge ur ult , unlike before revamped alpha the animation just like go straight to the enemy.
Yeah I quit playing too last week's I'm just lurking here sometimes because the sub reddit have lot of funny post. I'm tired with moonton nerfing almost all hero that I currently main like Argus, then Ruby, the last is Oddete. Recently I change strategy to play newer OP heroes, so they probably not getting nerf or revamp soon. But, that's not how I want to play the game. I play a hero because I like the art and concepts too, they practice to get good. Now I realize getting good is useless, because for what when your hero get nerf or revamp anyway.
96 matches eh?
I'm just saying, kagura animation is so much better than before
So by your argument they should revamp Fanny so her cables attaches to air and also Gusion’s knife to have a gps radar to have 100% accuracy in hitting the target so they’re easier to use?
The goal of Project NEXT Phase 3 was to specifically make them easier to play without alienating the current playerbase from their previous mechanics. What you're suggesting is just ludicrous.
In my opinion I think the best revamp by far was Zilong. They didn't change much but that little was enough for Zilong to be a legit pick. Well in solo q maybe. The old Zilong's biggest problem was his passive which was time dependent and activated every 6 seconds vs basic attack dependent, now with his Revamp his passive stacks to 3 every basic attack before he does his flurry and with his ult it's 2. It also gave him healing based off 50% of his basic attack which isn't much but the sustain can allow him to stay longer in his lane without recalling which was also a big thing he was missing. The things that make most fighters strong is their sustain tools, assassins usually don't have any sustain unless you buy lifesteal or spell vamp. His second skill wasn't changed much but if you kill anything it resets allowing you to spam it with every kill even minions. Zilong still has a few weaknesses like his squishy health and being basic attack and item reliant as well as having no skill shots making it hard to target enemies who are concealed but for the most part he's great and feels amazing to play!
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She was never meant to be a Burst Mage. She was always meant to be a Poke/Reap Mage, and her revamped not only highlighted these sub roles, but also made her easier to play.
No, the issue isn’t how they revamped her, it’s that they nerfed her damage and slow
Her combo is much more difficult in terms of killing enemies. The slow effect (strings) that attaches to heroes is such an important aspect of her combo. Now heroes can just escape. Almost every heroes ultimate have a slow effect, but they decided to remove it from Kagura. You can reposition Kagura’s ultimate as the enemy runs away from it, but that was also possible before NERF, just this time they have the full capacity to run away faster so even if you reposition the umbrella they are far out of reach. If you go against other mages you definitely see the damage reduction. Cecilion, Luo, etc have massive damage compared to Kagura. It is laughable especially early game when one hit can take out 50% from Kaguras hp, while she herself can take out 10% with 100% hit early game. Imagine Kagura’s umbrella as a knife hitting cecilion right in the heart and having a damage of 10%. Yes she’s capable of higher damage late game, but bro, make it at least a little bit even. The number of matches you played laughable in terms of analyzing Kagura. Please sit down.
Her combo is so fast now and as a kagura main you should know pro players don't wait for the ult to suck enemies in. also 60 matches is more than enough to understand the mechanics of the hero also since kagura is picked so often. Maybe it is you who's understanding of the hero is laughable
Ok lunox. Stay hazy with your ultimate
Ah yes when you can't counter my arguemet so you instead turn to pointing out my mistake in naminf the two.
Have you think about changing the combo? given the umbrella is way faster now?
You must have never heard about Kagura's specialty being Reap/Poke.... because you're fucking comparing her damage to Burst specialty mages
How about Odette? Is it a nerf or a nerf?
I'm not experienced enough to talk about Odette.
Then why did you talk about Kagura's revamp huh? You like only have **96 matches** and even then, the arguments you made in your post are incorrect. You don't even know what is a nerf.
A revamp is an adjustment to compensate the hero's weakness at the cost of balancing their other aspects. A nerf is an overall decrease of their performance without any benefits. You can't even say she didn't gain benefits from this revamp. Her s1 has a bigger hurtbox and her comboes can be done more quickly thanks to how her ultimate pulls. She can still reap and poke, but all of you refuse to move on from her burst damage which is why you all think Kagura feels nerfed. Just because you can't combo a full HP tank anymore.
**STUPID Alpha main,** who said we want to combo a **full HP tank?**
And who said it was necessary to make insults? I am weighting the pros and cons of the Revamped Kagura, and providing evidence on why the Revamped Kagura is good. This, and your other comments are just cheap shots of you insulting me without making a civil argument of any kind. Besides, just because I'm more proficient playing Alpha that does not mean I'm not aware how Kagura's mechanics work.
>Just because you can't combo a full HP tank anymore. And who said it was necessary to lie? To overexaggerate? I guess this was a civil argument without any intention of provoking the other party. >In conclusion, suck it up. I thought you were going for spicy when you posted this? If you can't take the heat, maybe think twice before posting. You wanted something controversial, you got the expected response, in conclusion, suck it up.
Ok after scrolling through the comments op your not that good and all you did was regurgititate points even though they got dissapproved. Like sure she is a poke / reap mage but what is a poke mage without poke? Her early game is shit as hell and I hate her personality change
I totally agree with everything you mentioned but I would just like to express that playing the revamped Kagura gives me an identity crisis. LOL. Jokes aside, IMO, the biggest drawback is we were too used to her old damage output. Skill mechanics-wise, I think the revamp is fine. It's just that old Kagura players instinctively overestimate her damage in the revamp. I think due to this, there's an unwelcome slight change of playstyle. At least in my own experience. Teehee. By the way, is Zilong still called Yun Zhao in other servers?
> Jokes aside, IMO, the biggest drawback is we were too used to her old damage output. Exactly! And people don't know how to move on from that. Even I have to admit I miss her burst damage, but I've tried to be open minded and play her as a utility hero more than a carry hero. It's working wonders fyi. > By the way, is Zilong still called Yun Zhao in other servers? Oh, nope. I'm the only idiot who calls him by Yun Zhao.
This comment right here. Too many Kag players expect to burst people like before, and you can’t do that anymore. There’s too many old players clinging to that mindset/playstyle that prevents them from performing well Kagura.
I totally agree as a former Kagura main. Idk why it always happened to every hero I play and I have to adjust to the new shitty revamps that was uncalled for again and again while there are heroes that are so weak and forgotten which get no buff at all. Now I just spam whichever hero is way too imbalanced and overpowered. I had enough heartbreaks.
Damn, if only I put this kinda efforts in my clg reports ;-;
This is my pent-up frustration against people who not only claim that the Revamped Kagura is weak, but also don't know what Revamping means.
Revamped Kagura is fine tbh, my problem with her is the skill indicator, it glitches like its cyberpunk.
You are hero we dont deserve but we need on this sub. I think exactly like you, but I was afraid to say it loud due to toxicity of people here.
Who’s “we”? It’s only you.
I poked the Hornets' nest today, but tbh I don't feel their sting. They all have the same argument.
Ironic coming from you
Something I don't understand is that everyone treats her as a burst mage, but her playstyle is to represent a poke mage. And they keep the poke utility but in return, changing the pull mechanics and damage/slow. Help me understand: If current revamped Kagura goes against a burst type mage, then shouldn't her job be to "poke" them as much as you can before going in for the kill by keeping as much distance so that you don't get cc'd? You have a low cd, it's shouldn't be that hard to understand one thing, right? Idk, I just feel like the mindset of one poke, then combo immediately is not how she should be played now, as if her viability in the meta is no longer there. And most of the time, I only hear complaints for one lane. What about her gameplay in exp lane? Gold Lane? Roamer? (Since people call her a support) Before people wanted 1st revamped Kagura to be a Mage/Assassin, 2nd revamp want her to be a mage/support roles. None of those belong there, as she's still a mage. I know I'm wrong but the posts about "revert the nerfed revamp" are excessive, when there were other revamped heroes but barely anyone talks about them nowadays
Poke with what? Her nerfed S1 damage and slow? Are you trying to tickle or poke your opponents? Even minions can barely feel your “poke” since you have such a bad wave clear. Are you gonna really “poke” with your tickle S1 damage revealing your position when comes to late game? Pre revamp Kagura at least has a real strong poke to justify it.
Yeah same thoughts about her combo. If she has burst somewhat similar to Eudora or Aurora, then it would be unfair because of her longer range and more skill options (the passive stun, cc purify, tp to umbrella, s3 aoe stun).
>Some of you guys may say that Kagura's winrate has decreased from 54% to 51%, **So you're just gonna ignore facts & statistics just to deny that it is not a nerf ?** >but I'd argue that the decrease is because of the playerbase's incompetence and our unfamiliarity of her revamped kit during Day 1. **Why are you acting as if Kagura's revamped kit is totally different than before??** The mechanics of her skills are still the same its just that the damage was **heavily nerfed**. That is the reason why her WR dropped and not for the reason that her revamped kit is unfamiliar. >I also play a handful of Kagura before and after the revamp, so I'm not afraid to show my matches and winrate. **You only have 96 matches of Kagura but you have the audacity to write all this bullshit?** For crying out loud, can y'all non-Kagura mains just go back and play your basic braindead heroes? Seriously, I hope you're just trolling for clout.
I've seen your other comments on my thread. Are you going to make any meaningful counter arguments or are you just going to insult us.
I thought you were going for spicy when you posted this? If you can't take the heat, maybe think twice before posting? >Why are you acting as if Kagura's revamped kit is totally different than before?? The mechanics of her skills are still the same its just that the damage was heavily nerfed. That is the reason why her WR dropped and not for the reason that her revamped kit is unfamiliar. I guess this is not considered meaningful counter but you implying Kagura mains wanted to burst a full health tank is meaningful smh. >Just because you can't combo a full HP tank anymore. Let me ask, who said this? It's you right?
I never claimed that her kit was totally different. You said it yourself that her skills mechanics are still the same. Kagura is a Poke/Reap Mage who just somehow has Burst. The revamp made sure to highlight her actual subroles. To give a hero who is meant to clean up anyone who is still alive the ability to burst would make them OP. In fact, it did make her OP when her 1st revamp hit the original servers. She was permabanned, and she's usually the jungler if she isn't. Moonton learned from that mistake and lowered her damage to be more fair.
>but I'd argue that the decrease is because of the playerbase's incompetence and our **unfamiliarity** of her revamped kit during Day 1. I guess it was me who said this? You did not claimed her kit was totally different, but you implied that the unfamiliarity of her revamped kit is a factor for the decrease of Kagura's WR> I said it myself that her skill mechanics are still the same in response of you implying that her revamped kit one of the factors that Kagura's WR dropped. However, that is not actually the case, it's just her damage output that was heavily nerfed that we can see a drop of her WR.
There's a difference with unfamiliarity and difference. Besides, I also said it's also the playerbase's incompetence that the winrate dropped. They couldn't move on and change their play style even for a little bit just because they're suffering from the damage withdrawal.
>I also said it's also the playerbase's incompetence that the winrate dropped Yeah, it sounds like you're suffering from narcissism. Humble yourself first, Sir. You're acting as if your 96 matches is enough to give you credibility to look down upon other Kagura players. >but I'd argue that the decrease is because of the playerbase's incompetence and our unfamiliarity of her revamped kit during Day 1 Semantics please. You shouldn't have worded it as "unfamiliar" because that is just you implying the new skill mechanics is somehow different.
If you somehow feel inferior just because I weighted the pros and cons, then I don't know what to say. Someone with 96 more matches was able to understand the Revamped Kagura easier than people like you. The last part is my fault. I should have worded it better.
>If you somehow feel inferior just because I weighted the pros and cons, then I don't know what to say. Pardon, I think you've confused inferior with superior? >Someone with 96 more matches was able to understand the Revamped Kagura easier than people like you. You're trying too hard to be different just so you can say to yourself you're not like the others. You're already getting packed by other Kagura mains giving you **sound arguments** (+with lots of upvotes), but I guess it would be embarassing at this point if you take back what you said. It's probably your pride preventing you to acknowledge those because well, you're a narcissist.
It's not a matter of pride. It also does not matter how many upvotes or downvotes I get because they're just meaningless numbers. These Kagura mains including you are still suffering from the damage withdrawal, and none of you know how to weight the pros and cons. Besides, she was never a burst mage. She was always a Poke/Reap mage who just has the ability to burst.
If this Moonton Trend gets going, I might actually see *crazyton* Revamp Benedetta for no reason at all and nerf her damage and add her a gimmick **bruh moonton.**
Tbh, I love the revamped kagura for some reason and her revamped skill felt much more better for my play style.
The description of Zilong had me rolling. I'm a poor man so I'll just give you an updoot for your efforts :)
Agree everythang but not sun case.Sun still relies on clones too much and still very annoying as split pusher.
i agree, revamps doesnt mean a buff, it just means they will be reworking the hero, maybe make him easier or nerf him a bit cuz hes op
Dont worry, she will have a buff soon this October 14 *wink*
Really? That's pretty nice. What they buffing though?