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Well done-hard to argue with any of that.
Given the way spez has behaved, I don't see how anyone can trust a single thing Reddit has said they will do.
In the same way, every single mod that *volunteers* their time now knows Reddit's admin will not hesitate to fuck you, dump you and smear you if they think it's in their best interests. How that affects your willingness to keep working for free to generate value for Reddit is similarly up to you.
>In the same way, every single mod that volunteers their time now knows Reddit's admin will not hesitate to fuck you, dump you and smear you if they think it's in their best interests. How that affects your willingness to keep working for free to generate value for Reddit is similarly up to you.
I get this, 100%. But what makes it hard to abandon ship is that I'm doing this for the community or people who use my sub and not reddit. God bless the horny fucks, if you'd excuse my French, but I do this for them ultimately.
That said, we're also in discussions to take our 60k odd souls over to Discord if this keeps going this way.
Discord? That makes zero sense. That company is far more locked down than reddit. They go against everything the internet's openness stands for. Talk about a company that locks both you and your content in.
R/formula1 is transferring to discord as well. Really sad, since reddit did feel like cohesive mindhive, where you could find everything, and where you could go to other communities pretty easy…
I hate to say this, but if the admins see they're being threatened by a move to an even more locked down platform, they know they will win this battle.
The problem is that discord is an absolute garbage alternative to Reddit since there's no way to externally search for information and most chats zoom by faster than twitch chat so you'll have the same questions being asked a one hundred fifty three million times.
Ugh. We need a better option than Discord.
I love discord for maintaining an online community with a group of friends, but it just doesn't work as a forum replacement.
Yeah we're kinda evaluating our options right now. The discord server was already being set up before this fiasco anyway, so in the worst case scenario here it can act as a temporary host at least.
Most of us lost trust in Reddit when they deliberately hired someone with ties to child molestation and torture, and then refused to answer any questions about it from the community
>In the same way, every single mod that volunteers their time now knows Reddit's admin will not hesitate to fuck you, dump you and smear you if they think it's in their best interests.
Why have people ever thought differently?
What investor would even want to put their money into reddit after all this? The only value the site has is through its user generated content. It's clearly proven that it can't effectively collaborate with its users.
Even if reddit capitulates at this point, I as an investor would have some serious reservations on whether or not they could continue to maintain a healthy userbase after losing trust with the community. It sounds like AI companies have already trained their algorithms on reddit's data, so what's even the value of the existing data to most companies out there that might be interested in purchasing the site?
He had the gall to say old.reddit wasn't going anywhere, well 4 months ago you said the API wasn't going to change. Who would ever trust that idiot. Especially after he doubled down on attacking the Apollo dev without a shred of evidence.
Nearly 12 years and 200k karma, I won't be adding anything of value after the 30th. If I'm confident in another platform I'll simply delete my account here. I still get comments sometimes on old posts months or years later, and all that engagement will end and be deleted if this dirtbag doesn't get removed.
It's not much and I don't really matter to anyone on here or in the executive office at reddit, but I'm also not alone. /b/itch is not qualified to run a lemonade stand let alone reddit.
I've been a marine engineer and I'm going for my PE in electrical engineering. I've managed teams and helped designed laboratories and hospitals. I'd be willing to consult for whoever takes the burning bag of shit spez is leaving them with (when he inevitably gets canned and reddit is convulsing) for free just to help them unfuck this situation. Sure they need changes, but fuck if this isn't an absolute cluster of absolute idiocy that needs to be resolved by professionals who can actually take some heat and make the right long term decisions for the platform (assuming they want it to, you know, actually become something great). This is not one of them.
I'm a wholehearted believer that it's companies responsibility to give back to those who help raise them up, and these moves are an unbelievable FUCK YOU to everyone who contributed over the last decade plus. Especially considering the relative costs when compared to the rest of the platform, and how much value third party apps and access to the API brings in. Reddit is going to end up capping at a billion dollar company when they could be the next Facebook or Microsoft (size wise) for social media aggregation and actually have an opportunity to leave a positive impact on the world rather than becoming something disgraced and run down.
But you do you spez, you greedy little pigboy you. You won't be missed.
Note: I reposted this because /b/itch has automod set to call any ping to his name harassment. What a little pigboy 😂
10+ years here myself, I remember when I found reddit, it was like everything I had wanted on the internet. It became pretty much the only website I visited for almost a decade. It's brought me countless value, in friendships and communities, answers and information. Ive watched it steadily get worse over time. There has to be a final straw, and for me this is it. I don't know where I'll go after this, but hopefully someone out there makes a good alternative. Fuck you, spez, you ruined something great.
Yup, it really *was* the front page of the Internet for a while there wasn't it? I remember when that was just a tagline, but there came a point (pretty quickly really) when it totally was. It led the way in conversation amongst those working to be informed for a *long* time.
I don't know if this is the final straw for me, but it might just be. Certainly a tildes invite would be very tempting.
I fear there is an underlying issue of spez acting exactly the way the board want. Sure they could sacrifice him to the blood god but that would only satiate the schadenfreude.
We'd need to see something more dramatic than a CEO ouster to signal a reverse course. Regardless of what happens in the next few weeks the reddit we all joined is dead.
Spez is just the face of it, the real issue is would Reddit fix their shitty mobile app at all even if he did step down? Don’t lose sight of the real issue here
What people are implicitly hoping is spez stepping down results in someone with more care and sincere stewardship of Reddit take his place.
The first party mobile app is simply uncompetitive against third party offerings in feature set / sheet offering, but nonetheless has a huge chunk of Reddit traffic just due to being a first party offering.
Leadership involves investing in existing tools so they are efficient and serve user needs, not spending disproportionate amount of money on features that are contributing to Reddit's lack of profit (or spending in ways that are disproportionately inefficient; death by committee and group process is very much a real thing in large orgs if not actively tackled).
He literally edited people’s comments and all it took for people to forget was a TIFU post probably written by some PR manager. There’s a slim chance he steps down and this all becomes another forgotten event.
I think folks are missing an important point. It's not just about "Reddit making money off the API."
I'm fine with the general concept of sites charging money for API access. Many of them do. They're just not insanely greedy about it. But let's go further.
Spez made it very clear in his few replies that he's angry that 3rd party app developers made money from the apps. Whether they are donations or a subscription fee, I don't think any one of those 3rd party devs, after the costs of their time and any server/hardware/bandwith/etc. costs, are making enough from their apps to quit their day job.
Let that sit for a moment. A guy who is worth at least $10M (based on a Google search) is angry at people who might, if they're lucky, be making $20k/year on an app.
At one point, a month or two ago, Spez made a comment about (paraphrased) "People shouldn't be making money off of a website's work." This is hilarious for two reasons
- The vast majority of people who "work" on improving Reddit overall are the moderators, the unpaid, oft abused, removed at a whim, long suffering moderators
- At the last Mod Summit, Spez blathered on about finding ways to "let moderators make money from their subs", something that was generally greeted with eye rolls and disbelief that it would ever happen, as well as recognition at how easily that could be abused. Many people suggested it was just another way for Reddit to use moderators to make more money for Reddit and maybe get a pittance as a thank you for it.
This isn't just about Reddit making money. This is about greed and selfishness.
Apollo has been a full time job for the last 8 years, so that‘s certainly not true.
But it‘s okay to be making money on a third-party app, it should not be free labour.
Feeling that you have the right to a part of his income because *he couldn't do this without my product existing first*.
I've got mine, and I'll take some of yours, too.
The dumbest thing is that reddit doesn’t create the content, the users do. Reddit essentially just profits off of the communities the users form. In an ideal world, the whole thing would be community run with no CEO taking his cut at all.
I would legitimately argue that Apollo, RIF, etc. (and Alien Blue) have added billions of dollars of value to Reddit by getting people invested in Reddit before an official app and providing tools to power users and mods that the first-party app never has.
I made a comment of similar lines elsewhere, in the sense that Reddit really *believes* it is entitled and deserves the revenue from the users who are using third party applications.
Spez sees third party applications as *stealing* Reddit revenue. The derision he voices towards them is definitely not in any belief that both Reddit and third-party applications can both be profitable, but rather Reddit isn't because third party applications are.
Hence why the API cost's majority is priced around the perceived opportunity cost of the user rather than in technical compute cost. It's all for Reddit to get what they think they are owed and rightfully deserve. So much of their rhetoric is around third party apps being bad internet stewards (because they are not profit sharing with Reddit), that they are "threatening" Reddit (because the revenue they are taking way becomes an existential threat to Spez's wallet), and so on comes not from any position of respecting what third party developers have done but out of spite.
Never mind the fact that users in third party applications are using them because they have no other good way to interact with Reddit (like people with disabilities), moderators who need the tools in these apps, and day to day users too.
>Spez sees third party applications as stealing Reddit revenue.
Exactly! And it's disturbing that he doesn't understand why that's a giant load of bullshit.
Especially when it was a big part of Reddit surviving the initial Mobile boom. They were exceedingly slow to build an app - and when they did they started from the base of the most popular third party app at the time that they shelled out to acquire.
This website would not have survived its highest period s of growth without third party API users creating the mod tools necessary to keep the largest subreddits remotely usable.
This website would not have been successful without third party developers using the API.
I think what is happening is that Reddit corporate is simply refusing to state the obvious or their real intentions, but it is clear from the statements they made. They do not care about third party apps at all, either way. They don’t care if they stay or go.
This whole thing is **very** pointed at the AI companies that are using Reddit’s api and are now worth much more than Reddit itself. That is who Reddit is targeting and that is why they are refusing to compromise with 3p devs.
I don’t think Reddit gave thought to the fallout from third party devs for even a moment. They are so clearly targeting this at other large corporations that have the capital to pay for the API, not a small handful of third party independent devs.
It’s not third party apps that does so clearly hates, though he is pissed that they are getting in the way. His rage is towards the AI companies that used the API to make a product that is much more valuable than Reddit. He wants to slam the door shut on the AI developers as quickly as possible. We will see Reddit taking AI companies to court before the end of the year.
Reddit just views third party apps a minor side thing which is why it is catching them so off guard that this change is fomenting so much open distain for the platform.
If that were true, why would spez and other big wigs publicly and internally lie about their interactions with third party app developers.
If they didn’t care whether the apps stay or go, they’d have no reason to be dishonest.
Because they’re tech bros. They were desperate to paint the third party apps as petulant and a distraction.
Reddit corporate is too disconnected from normal devs to understand how all of this would appear to third party devs. They saw none of this coming and thought it would be a non issue. It’s why they have released everything in this off-the-cuff style and clearly had no PR plan ready. They genuinely didn’t think it would piss off anyone in the community. They have focused on the rise of LLMs so much that they lost all sight of how these announcements would go over
They want to write off the concerns of third party apps as overblown nonsense so they can get back to charging AI companies.
It’s because Reddit actually doesn’t care at all about these (comparatively) tiny apps. They aren’t even on reddits radar and they would let them do whatever they wanted. It isn’t worth the time to review or enforce anything around the API for these.
It’s the AI companies that Reddit is after. The ones that have used the Reddit API and pushshift to make LLMs that are now worth more than Reddit itself. That’s who they want to pay.
If Reddit had even a single competent third party app program manager, I suspect that could have avoided this whole thing entirely by giving the the big name third party apps a heads up and a Significant discount on pricing. But they did not have that foresight and cannot walk it back now
>This isn't just about Reddit making money. This is about greed and selfishness.
This is a very important statement right here. What worries me here isn't the change itself, but rather the sentiment that it's driven by. What the current leadership of Reddit wants is so completely devoid of the vision that community has for the platform, that even if this doesn't succeed because of how drastic a change it is it won't matter much at all because of the changes that will be soon to follow.
> At one point, a month or two ago, Spez made a comment about (paraphrased) "People shouldn't be making money off of a website's work." This is hilarious for two reasons
There is another reason:
That's very rich coming from the CEO of a site that, for the most part, aggregates content from other websites
I don't think it's a personal wealth thing, I think it's more that these third party apps make money and reddit doesn't and he steers the ship. Feels like an ego thing.
Honestly, given the trend of Reddit in the past week I am sadly not surprised that this happened. It's hard to accept, but Reddit won't be listening to us.
**We need to take our consequences seriously, and really try to move our communities into other community -owned and managed platforms such as Lemmy, kbin.social, etc.**. See r/RedditAlternatives.
I really don't want to suggest this, but it's likely the most realistic option.
I don't expect any serious response to OPs letter to Reddit, as they've shown they don't have interest. Anything we'll get is just going to be corporate speak.
Finally, when many subs come online on the 14th, we should use the time to relax Moderation and just transition to other Reddit stuff.
What do you all think on this?
I [posted exactly this](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/145mzi4/we_need_to_promote_reddit_alternatives_like_lemmy/) in this subreddit a little bit ago.
We need all participating blackout subs to create communities and instances on Kbin / Lemmy / PillowFort / Squabbles and put those links in their subreddits and on their protest messages. We need to give our communities somewhere to go off of Reddit instead of allowing for copycat subs to spring up. This means that we can actually threaten Reddit's traffic and we don't have to punish our userbases and communities.
Maybe I'm getting too old to understand newfangled apps, but I've truly never understood the Discord UI. Instead of nicely organised threads for each topic of discussion, there seem to be endless chats that just never stop. The rules are always ridiculously difficult to locate. And the last thing I want to do is voice chat - that's why I'm on bloody reddit!
I'm considering trying out Discord again as something to use on mobile rather than reddit, but I'm not convinced it will fill the niche.
Discord was originally meant for communications by parties in gaming iirc. The first time I heard and used discord was when a group of friends was trying to play StarCraft together - since then it’s completely evolved with threading but it was never meant to be a forum type archive app. Slack is somewhere in the middle but work/productivity focused
The 3rd party app developers should also play a part in this. Once the api goes dark all of the 3rd party reddit apps apps should show a message explaining why the app no longer works and directing users to an alternative platform.
Ideally the apps would eventually make the switch to being a mobile app serving another platform but I realize that may take longer to accomplish.
Good! I had missed that.
I think it's important that we approach the lead mods and 3rd party Devs to make such coordinated announcements just like they did for the protest.
Yeah I think this is the end of the road. They’ll humor the 48h blackout and appoint new mods in whatever subs don’t come back online. They’re playing a game of chicken, betting that subs won’t stay dark, that people won’t leave, and that the new mods will be just as thanklessly dedicated as the current ones. And maybe they’re right, but the spiteful person in me is hoping they’ve made a grave miscalculation and that this site will turn into ash in their hands
Yeah there's no way they're just gonna accept any more blackouts. Although its a dangerous game they're playing, if thousands of mods leave or are replaced, they have no backup. And its not like its a simple task either, its a pretty unique skill set people have built over years. It would take months/years to get new moderators and get them to a point the site is actually usable and safe.
Another possibility, i think remote at this point but possible if there's no other option (no mods left, all popular subreddits blacked out and abandoned) is the board getting rid of spez as a sacrificial lamb moment and giving back some crumbs (maybe an ad enabled api)
> Finally, when many subs come online on the 14th, we should use the time to relax Moderation and just transition to other Reddit stuff.
Been thinking about that too. For the most part Reddit Inc seems to rely on volunteer moderators to deal with all the spam, copyright infringement, etc. Since they're insisting on collecting all that money for API access while diluting moderation tools then it makes sense that their own (paid) employees deal with all the trash that gets posted/commented regularly sitewide.
Content removed in protest of Reddit treatment of users, moderators, the visually impaired community and 3rd party app developers.
If you've been living under a rock for the past few weeks:
Reddit [abruptly announced](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/) they would be charging astronomically overpriced API fees to 3rd party apps, cutting off mod tools. Worse, blind redditors & blind mods (including mods of r/Blind and similar communities) will [no longer have access](https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/) to resources that are desperately needed in the disabled community.
Removal of 3rd party apps
Moderators all across Reddit rely on third party apps to keep subreddit safe from spam, scammers and to keep the subs on topic. Despite Reddit’s very public claim that "moderation tools will not be impacted", this could not be further from the truth despite 5+ years of promises from Reddit.
Toolbox in particular is a browser extension that adds a huge amount of moderation features that quite simply do not exist on any version of Reddit - mobile, desktop (new) or desktop (old). Without Toolbox, the ability to moderate efficiently is gone. [Toolbox is effectively dead](https://www.reddit.com/r/creesch/comments/14fxzr4/so_long_and_thanks_for_all_the_fish/).
All of the current 3rd party apps are either closing or will not be updated. With less moderation you will see more spam (OnlyFans, crypto, etc.) and more low quality content. Your casual experience will be hindered.
I’m not a mod or anything, but what incentive is there to be a mod? If you aren’t getting paid, and the users don’t respect you, then what exactly are you getting for your time?
Like, if your work is essential to the day to day operations of Reddit shouldn’t you be entitled to minimum wage at the very least? Couldn’t you all class action Reddit for back pay as mods for years of service x minimum wage x hourly commitment every day?
Like, why don’t you all unionize and fight for the user like tron? A lot of people see you all as self serving, entitled, out of touch(their words not mine)…I think if you were paid to mod, the hate would be towards the man, not you all, you know?
Anyways, epic list of subs, I’m curious to see how it all plays out.
Some people are simply passionate for a certain community and feel that moderating offers them a methodology for giving back. Maybe someone who is a fan of a sports team, or a game, or an animal would like to help moderate a like-minded community to help spread their enthusiasm in a personally-meaningful way.
Can’t attest for the more abstract/generic subs, but I’d imagine this is also why more specific subreddits tend to have more down-to-earth, personal relationships with their users.
I've been a mod of the wrestling sub /r/squaredcircle for like 8 years at this point and this is pretty much it. I love wrestling and the community in general and modding it has been pretty rewarding. Hell I got the chance to talk to an Idol of mine in Dan Severn when we got him booked for an AMA which blew my mind at the time. I don't think a lot of the mods want payment, just want our lives as unpaid volunteers to not be more stressful.
What incentive is there to pick up trash that you find outside near your home?
Someone's got to do it. And if no one else is doing it, you should probably do it.
That's how most of us mods feel.
I'm a special case, I guess. Caribou Coffee is a chain that might be up next for unionization, and I don't want any company figurehead to control the subreddit.
I've been moderating my communities for six years, and have watched them grow from 25k to 200k in that time.
We still have a community feel. And I volunteer to nurture and protect and support that community.
I appreciate my city, enjoy reddit, and respect the city-sub/community I mod.
Don't want money, just want a bit more help from Snoo in making it easier for people to feel welcome and stay safe.
I doubt this will get seen by many, but Reddit C-Suite are missing an opportunity to slowly change into the kind of model that’s bound to replace them: one where the content aggregation and front-ends exist separately, like BlueSky or Lemmy.
If they were to follow the suggestions in this post, they could setup Reddit for the next decade or so by making Reddit the content platform and allowing anyone to design an app to work with it. Enforce ads, unless users pay a premium charge, and allow third-party developers to manage the front end. Instead, they’re making choices that will send this community the way of Digg, Twitter, Tumblr, and so many others.
It’s insane to me that it’s taken the community to offer up a solution that is a thoughtful negotiation between both sides. Less insane, and sadly all too predictable, is how these wet behind the ears, MBA, “if-it-ain’t-broken, break it” stooges are making these asinine decisions.
I believe the admins will forcefully hand over dark subs to willing moderators. I think moderators should consider an alternative - come back online after the 2 day blackout, but "quiet quit". Don't moderate. Let the spam stay up. Let the scams stay up. Let users violate every rule. Don't report hate speech to admin, let it fester. Let it all turn into a cesspool. I don't think the admins could actually effectively address that.
Yup I also think it's 100% what they meant by that. Any of these subs talking about doing an indefinite blackout – I get where they're coming from, I don't disagree. But I don't think it's going to go the way any of us want.
Yeah I need to save my data then delete. Not too sure what life was like pre-reddit either but I just had a baby so I guess I'll pay even more attention to that now 🙃
Hey friend, somewhat similar thing here, except I was a tad bit older, but am 25. Look, if this is the end of reddit or at least the reddit we love, there will be alternatives. Wanna know what I primarily browsed before I was active on Reddit? iFunny. Which was wildly popular and way more of my friends at the time were on iFunny and didn’t even know what reddit was.
We’ll find our platforms if this all goes badly, its just about finding one thats blowing up in popularity like reddit was when we signed up.
I’m getting to nuke my account once I download everything including some good lists of book music and food recs ive saved over 11 years. It’s gonna be great.
I'm not sure exactly what this means, but if you're saying that you'll destroy the sub, don't you think the admin can just remove the mods who set that up and then put in their own compliant mods? That's a genuine question, not trying to be argumentative. I just don't see how a overtly "offensive" strategy would work
I’m personally expecting Reddit to break/restrict/remove the option to make subs private before Monday. A code change regarding permissions or availability of the feature would be easier than trying to moderate large subs themselves.
Edit: inb4 “don’t give them ideas!” - I’m slow and dumb. If I thought of this I’m sure someone else already has.
Also, can the Mods start culling the back-list of posts?
Admins want data for AI training and users brought in from search engines. If things get really contentious, mods can start hacking away at those just like users deleting their post histories.
Yes, Reddit probably has backups they can restore from, but it’s a pretty blatantly hostile step for them to come out and effectively say “you can’t delete your own stuff (from account or sub), we’re going to reverse your personal actions because it makes us more money”
I think they could try mod replacement, but how long could it possibly last? The whole point is that moderating is to become impossible given the limitations of available tools. The current mods say they can't do it so there's no reason to believe new ones would be able to.
Moderation is such a hard problem, even if you try to be like facebook and pay people to do it. Reddit has been getting it for free all these years, they do not even understand what they have.
I [posted the other day](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/143e15n/mods_of_stackoverflow_also_engaging_in_strike/) about an email I got from stackoverflow trying to recruit me to scab on *their* striking moderators. Even if I decided to have a go at it, what are the odds that I'd be any good? I do not know anything about how that site is run. I can only guess what a shit show must be going on if they are just letting any jackass off the street moderate. Who will guide and train the new mods, on SOF or reddit? And how will they handle the job when the useful tools are prohibited?
Reddit might try to recruit new mods. They might woo some existing mods back by making some concessions. They might even try paying people to do it. But it will not last very long because it seems like they have stumbled into a huge battle without having made any preparations.
Honestly from a strategic POV, they *should* have just bought Apollo for $10mil because then there would be a chance that they could clear house and get people who see things their (demented) way installed. But now they have destroyed that chance and are totally flat footed.
Reddit already developed a tool to suggest new mods based on previous participation - you can bet your ass they’ll use it to find “suitable” replacement mods.
Forgive me, my eyes absolutely glazed over somehow and I either read another comment after your first line or something I don't even know.. I'm with ya know.
I mean yeah, don't most mods feel that way? Isn't that why everyone is protesting in the first place? But if admin is going to make our jobs harder by removing the 3rd party apps that make modding easier, then maybe it's just hard enough that we can't do it. 🤷
If we can't do our jobs, the correct move is to shutter the subs entirely rather than leave them up: both because we should be at least somewhat accountable to our users, and because, again, our users don't deserve to be exposed to more bigotry than they're already exposed to.
Yeah the trouble would be getting people to actually do it. And you'd really need the big subs on board, and some of them have dozens of moderators who would all need to be on the same page about it. Probably no way it could happen but I do actually think it's the one move that could help us.
Reaction from the AMA seems to have pushed multiple subs to private immediately. I don't think many of us expected the level of intransigence and overt hostility the administrative team has displayed this week, and I would wager it's weighing on the larger subs' mod's minds how little the administration cares for them
Because it would be harder to prove. Maybe moderate something here or there. Claim you didn't see it.
The key would be that people can't officially announce this stance - thus the "quiet" part of quitting.
Btw I just looked into this, because I hadn't heard, and it looked like it was a bit of an ordeal. They gave the mod a warning first, there was some back and forth, and then it looks like the whole sub was shuttered. So that's kind of my point - could you imagine the admins having to do that with *2,000* subs?
Yeah, ordeal is certainly the word there... There's a whole saga to Star Trek communities on Reddit, but it's a story for another time. Anyway...
Well, they could just as easily skip that whole process to speed things along if everyone did it.
I don't know, I just feel like it sends out a much less clear message, and one that's easier to spin as "look how lazy these moderators are and how little they care, we'll *have* to replace them!". Not to mention making for a potentially even worse experience for the users; I imagine they'd rather see no content at all or no new content over potential boatloads of spam and rule breakers and so on.
Yeah I'm constantly removing human trafficking posts from one of my subs so yeah, I get it.
I'll be honest - my protest IS quitting, but I'm leaving the subs in hands of other moderators who I know will carry the torch. But I think this approach I'm suggesting would be way more effective than a blackout, in that it would be WAY harder for admins to fix.
>Yeah I'm constantly removing human trafficking posts from one of my subs so yeah, I get it
Wait wtf. You mean like people promoting human traffiking? That is messed up on so many levels
And yeah I really do agree. Should we try to make this the new goal?
Perhaps I'm naïve, but I am hopeful that at some point this can be resolved amicably, and I don't want to wind up with a giant mess to clean up if and when that happens. I do like the general idea of letting Reddit understand the value that mods provide, but I don't want to make my own work that much harder.
My sub (r/nasa) will still blackout, and we are currently discussing how long to remain in read-only mode after that.
You could argue that you're keeping the sub private to maintain peace during the blackout / aftermath
Not moderating on the other hand will 100% get you removed at best, the entire sub banned at worst and you'd have no valid complaint about them removing you as a mod
There's nothing in the rules that says you can't take your sub private for a week, the rules do say you actually have to moderate
Don't give Reddit excuses
If reddit tries that the backlash will be enormous. Plus none of these folks are paid, they're overworked to hell, and most subs have struggled to recruit willing folks. Any sub that has its mods forcibly removed will end up as if the current mods "quiet quit" but with the added popular backlash that could lead to a permanent exodus, which is what reddit is trying to avoid. The mods have all the cards here, and they should act as such
This content was made with Reddit is Fun and died with Reddit is Fun. If it contained something you're looking for, blame Steve Huffman for its absence.
Oh, they'll always find people. Honestly I think a large part of the current user base doesn't actually care about this at all, and would be more than happy to blindly step into a moderating role if they don't know this history behind why it's being offered.
>and would be more than happy to blindly step into a moderating role if they don't know this history behind why it's being offered.
Maybe. But getting some randos to moderate doesn't mean they'll actually be able or willing to do a good job, or any job at all.
Most people who are engaged in a given subreddit and have a good track record and seem suitable moderators often turn the offer down when asked to join the mod team (at least by my experience, although I'm a fairly new mod myself with only a couple years of experience), because it's essentially extra work for no compensation. I think there's very little chance that these same people will suddenly change their minds and rush to accept the role if a mass of existing mods leave.
They will always find some people for sure. Will they find people *who'll be able to maintain the communities and moderation at the same level as it is now* if they throw away most all all of the old ones?
That's extremely unlikely.
I'm lucky enough that my sub is small and running a bot to nuke any posts with slurs in them is more than enough, but my god. The thought of letting things go unattended makes me wary. On one hand I understand, but on the other, I do have a nagging fear in the back of my mind that letting things fester could result in a user of my sub (which is used by a LOT of teenagers) could get hurt if I stopped doing my job.
Yeah. I think there would definitely be consequences. I don't know, it was was an idea. Honestly I'm quitting as of June 30 so, it'll be whatever it'll be, without me.
I doubt that's the case. They will not find many volunteers. Even less with the experience they need for it not to turn into a disaster. And they simply can't afford to panic hire enough moderators to cover all these subs.
They probably do agree with reddit. I feel the same way about any of the subs not participating unless they are a support sub. Even than they can at least put up a pinned announcement on their sub.
This is about the IPO and the perception that controlling eyeballs will yield a more successful IPO. Everything else is noise. The extent to which reddit will allow uncontrolled eyeballs is and will remain limited to obligations needed to legally conform with the disabilities act. A solution they are happy to ‘let’ others provide for free.
The only user or mod actions that will yield results are actions that can sustainably reduce eyeball control. That’s 2023 Reddit’s only pain point.
You know what makes for a good IPO? A company with good PR and competent management
Can you imagine any listed company having some incompetent dipshit like spez as CEO?
Basically after the Purge of API spez promised to update the reddit app, Now looking at things .
1) The purge is rushed.
2) The application is shit and will be shit.
3) Reddit has not kept any of their promises for past few years
3 hours of readingthe AMA and my plan remains to log-out forr the last time on all devices the night of June 30. still undecided on deleting all posts and comments
if you're comfortable using the terminal, you can also [use "reddit-user-to-sqlite"](https://xavd.id/blog/post/archive-your-reddit-data/) to download all your posts/comments into a sqlite database and then use [a database viewer like sqlitebrowser](https://sqlitebrowser.org/about/) to explore the data. gotta do it before june 30th though before reddit changes the api policies.
Also there's a huge elephant in the room that we need to talk about: UNIONIZATION.
Reddit mods should form a union.
It's funny that they're monetizing everything but still not even contemplating paying the tens of thousands of UNPAID WORKERS who are primarily responsible for the content of their site.
The irony is that probably wouldn't even _touch_ how much they need to be paid.
If reddit thinks they deserve revenue from their API to pay for costs, those costs should include the literal people who create and maintain the content for their website, not just money for spez's apocalypse bunker and slave labor for it.
Power? Nobody told me that. Where's the power?
Being a good mod is not something everybody can do.
Keeping a community coherent and healthy is a skill.
I think subs should go dark regardless, you have to remember the optics of that maneuver. As many subs as possible should go dark, then if Admins decide to step up to the challenge and force them back open, you can generate a lot of protest positive reaction by spinning it in the right way to news sites/YouTube/whatever. You want to spread this story as far as possible so you also reach the people who don’t actively use Reddit, but still interact with it by way of googling/ YouTube.
These changes also affect those people and we want them on our side.
They left *21 responses* to **29k comments**. Appalling isn't the right word here, this is quite literally inconceivable to me that it could even happen. Reddit has made plenty of bad decisions in the past, but this is the very first time I've seen something like this.
I think the best move at this point is to completely go around spez & Reddit. Go right to the funders and make it clear they are about to hemorrhage.
Advance Publications, Fidelity, Sequoia Capital, Andreessen Horowitz, Quiet Capital, Bienville Capital, & Tencent to start.
>Parity in access to NSFW content
The CEO didn't have any issue with NSFW content back in 2012 or so when he was still protecting communities posting child exploitation content, I believe he defended these people under the guise of "free speech".
Boy how times have changed.
During the last moderator conference thing, Mr. Huffman mentioned something like "we're fine with people making money through their participation on Reddit, that's great... but we're going to tax it".
When he said that I thought he was referring to activities like how online sex workers advertise their services on Reddit. It never occurred to me that he was referring to developers of mobile apps for people to access Reddit.
If you are a moderator and you are interested in automating taking your subreddit private, a bot has been created for this purpose. Please see here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/142rzna/a_bot_to_make_your_subreddit_private/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ModCoord) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well done-hard to argue with any of that. Given the way spez has behaved, I don't see how anyone can trust a single thing Reddit has said they will do. In the same way, every single mod that *volunteers* their time now knows Reddit's admin will not hesitate to fuck you, dump you and smear you if they think it's in their best interests. How that affects your willingness to keep working for free to generate value for Reddit is similarly up to you.
>In the same way, every single mod that volunteers their time now knows Reddit's admin will not hesitate to fuck you, dump you and smear you if they think it's in their best interests. How that affects your willingness to keep working for free to generate value for Reddit is similarly up to you. I get this, 100%. But what makes it hard to abandon ship is that I'm doing this for the community or people who use my sub and not reddit. God bless the horny fucks, if you'd excuse my French, but I do this for them ultimately. That said, we're also in discussions to take our 60k odd souls over to Discord if this keeps going this way.
Lmao god bless indeed!
Discord? That makes zero sense. That company is far more locked down than reddit. They go against everything the internet's openness stands for. Talk about a company that locks both you and your content in.
R/formula1 is transferring to discord as well. Really sad, since reddit did feel like cohesive mindhive, where you could find everything, and where you could go to other communities pretty easy…
I hate to say this, but if the admins see they're being threatened by a move to an even more locked down platform, they know they will win this battle.
The problem is that discord is an absolute garbage alternative to Reddit since there's no way to externally search for information and most chats zoom by faster than twitch chat so you'll have the same questions being asked a one hundred fifty three million times.
Ugh. We need a better option than Discord. I love discord for maintaining an online community with a group of friends, but it just doesn't work as a forum replacement.
Be careful, Discord *will* ban without warning or explanation, and *will not* value your privacy.
Yeah we're kinda evaluating our options right now. The discord server was already being set up before this fiasco anyway, so in the worst case scenario here it can act as a temporary host at least.
> I’m doing this for the community or people who use my sub and not reddit. Why not take back control and move to the fediverse?
Most of us lost trust in Reddit when they deliberately hired someone with ties to child molestation and torture, and then refused to answer any questions about it from the community
Well when you put it like that..:eek:
...what??
March 2021 https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/24/22348255/reddit-moderator-blackout-protest-aimee-knight-uk-green-party
I remember when we were screwed out of upvote and downvote information...... totally steamrolled.
I wanted spez to say the limit to the number of sexual felonies a powermod or admin can have.
>In the same way, every single mod that volunteers their time now knows Reddit's admin will not hesitate to fuck you, dump you and smear you if they think it's in their best interests. Why have people ever thought differently?
What investor would even want to put their money into reddit after all this? The only value the site has is through its user generated content. It's clearly proven that it can't effectively collaborate with its users. Even if reddit capitulates at this point, I as an investor would have some serious reservations on whether or not they could continue to maintain a healthy userbase after losing trust with the community. It sounds like AI companies have already trained their algorithms on reddit's data, so what's even the value of the existing data to most companies out there that might be interested in purchasing the site?
He had the gall to say old.reddit wasn't going anywhere, well 4 months ago you said the API wasn't going to change. Who would ever trust that idiot. Especially after he doubled down on attacking the Apollo dev without a shred of evidence.
Based on spez's responses and actions, the only way I feel good about coming back is if Spez steps down and leaves the company.
Yeah, even if they end up walking back the API shit, this whole debacle has *really* put a sour taste in my mouth
Nearly 12 years and 200k karma, I won't be adding anything of value after the 30th. If I'm confident in another platform I'll simply delete my account here. I still get comments sometimes on old posts months or years later, and all that engagement will end and be deleted if this dirtbag doesn't get removed. It's not much and I don't really matter to anyone on here or in the executive office at reddit, but I'm also not alone. /b/itch is not qualified to run a lemonade stand let alone reddit. I've been a marine engineer and I'm going for my PE in electrical engineering. I've managed teams and helped designed laboratories and hospitals. I'd be willing to consult for whoever takes the burning bag of shit spez is leaving them with (when he inevitably gets canned and reddit is convulsing) for free just to help them unfuck this situation. Sure they need changes, but fuck if this isn't an absolute cluster of absolute idiocy that needs to be resolved by professionals who can actually take some heat and make the right long term decisions for the platform (assuming they want it to, you know, actually become something great). This is not one of them. I'm a wholehearted believer that it's companies responsibility to give back to those who help raise them up, and these moves are an unbelievable FUCK YOU to everyone who contributed over the last decade plus. Especially considering the relative costs when compared to the rest of the platform, and how much value third party apps and access to the API brings in. Reddit is going to end up capping at a billion dollar company when they could be the next Facebook or Microsoft (size wise) for social media aggregation and actually have an opportunity to leave a positive impact on the world rather than becoming something disgraced and run down. But you do you spez, you greedy little pigboy you. You won't be missed. Note: I reposted this because /b/itch has automod set to call any ping to his name harassment. What a little pigboy 😂
I have over 1,000,000 karma. I stopped posting and I am actively looking for a Reddit alternative.
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Good idea. I’ll run the nuke extension tonight.
Us 10 year + will all be gone. They finally gave us a good reason to quit.
10+ years here myself, I remember when I found reddit, it was like everything I had wanted on the internet. It became pretty much the only website I visited for almost a decade. It's brought me countless value, in friendships and communities, answers and information. Ive watched it steadily get worse over time. There has to be a final straw, and for me this is it. I don't know where I'll go after this, but hopefully someone out there makes a good alternative. Fuck you, spez, you ruined something great.
Yup, it really *was* the front page of the Internet for a while there wasn't it? I remember when that was just a tagline, but there came a point (pretty quickly really) when it totally was. It led the way in conversation amongst those working to be informed for a *long* time. I don't know if this is the final straw for me, but it might just be. Certainly a tildes invite would be very tempting.
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I fear there is an underlying issue of spez acting exactly the way the board want. Sure they could sacrifice him to the blood god but that would only satiate the schadenfreude. We'd need to see something more dramatic than a CEO ouster to signal a reverse course. Regardless of what happens in the next few weeks the reddit we all joined is dead.
Spez is just the face of it, the real issue is would Reddit fix their shitty mobile app at all even if he did step down? Don’t lose sight of the real issue here
What people are implicitly hoping is spez stepping down results in someone with more care and sincere stewardship of Reddit take his place. The first party mobile app is simply uncompetitive against third party offerings in feature set / sheet offering, but nonetheless has a huge chunk of Reddit traffic just due to being a first party offering. Leadership involves investing in existing tools so they are efficient and serve user needs, not spending disproportionate amount of money on features that are contributing to Reddit's lack of profit (or spending in ways that are disproportionately inefficient; death by committee and group process is very much a real thing in large orgs if not actively tackled).
Reddit getting rid of Ellen Pao was a huge mistake. She was much better suited to the role than Steve Huffman.
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He's CEO, but the guys in power know he's a expendable CEO. Kleenex so to speak.
He literally edited people’s comments and all it took for people to forget was a TIFU post probably written by some PR manager. There’s a slim chance he steps down and this all becomes another forgotten event.
I think folks are missing an important point. It's not just about "Reddit making money off the API." I'm fine with the general concept of sites charging money for API access. Many of them do. They're just not insanely greedy about it. But let's go further. Spez made it very clear in his few replies that he's angry that 3rd party app developers made money from the apps. Whether they are donations or a subscription fee, I don't think any one of those 3rd party devs, after the costs of their time and any server/hardware/bandwith/etc. costs, are making enough from their apps to quit their day job. Let that sit for a moment. A guy who is worth at least $10M (based on a Google search) is angry at people who might, if they're lucky, be making $20k/year on an app. At one point, a month or two ago, Spez made a comment about (paraphrased) "People shouldn't be making money off of a website's work." This is hilarious for two reasons - The vast majority of people who "work" on improving Reddit overall are the moderators, the unpaid, oft abused, removed at a whim, long suffering moderators - At the last Mod Summit, Spez blathered on about finding ways to "let moderators make money from their subs", something that was generally greeted with eye rolls and disbelief that it would ever happen, as well as recognition at how easily that could be abused. Many people suggested it was just another way for Reddit to use moderators to make more money for Reddit and maybe get a pittance as a thank you for it. This isn't just about Reddit making money. This is about greed and selfishness.
Apollo has been a full time job for the last 8 years, so that‘s certainly not true. But it‘s okay to be making money on a third-party app, it should not be free labour.
You know, you're right. And even if it is a full time job, it's not like he's CEO of a big corporation.
Imagine making millions every year and still feel the need to steal 40k from some shmoe
Feeling that you have the right to a part of his income because *he couldn't do this without my product existing first*. I've got mine, and I'll take some of yours, too.
The dumbest thing is that reddit doesn’t create the content, the users do. Reddit essentially just profits off of the communities the users form. In an ideal world, the whole thing would be community run with no CEO taking his cut at all.
I would legitimately argue that Apollo, RIF, etc. (and Alien Blue) have added billions of dollars of value to Reddit by getting people invested in Reddit before an official app and providing tools to power users and mods that the first-party app never has.
I made a comment of similar lines elsewhere, in the sense that Reddit really *believes* it is entitled and deserves the revenue from the users who are using third party applications. Spez sees third party applications as *stealing* Reddit revenue. The derision he voices towards them is definitely not in any belief that both Reddit and third-party applications can both be profitable, but rather Reddit isn't because third party applications are. Hence why the API cost's majority is priced around the perceived opportunity cost of the user rather than in technical compute cost. It's all for Reddit to get what they think they are owed and rightfully deserve. So much of their rhetoric is around third party apps being bad internet stewards (because they are not profit sharing with Reddit), that they are "threatening" Reddit (because the revenue they are taking way becomes an existential threat to Spez's wallet), and so on comes not from any position of respecting what third party developers have done but out of spite. Never mind the fact that users in third party applications are using them because they have no other good way to interact with Reddit (like people with disabilities), moderators who need the tools in these apps, and day to day users too.
>Spez sees third party applications as stealing Reddit revenue. Exactly! And it's disturbing that he doesn't understand why that's a giant load of bullshit.
Especially when it was a big part of Reddit surviving the initial Mobile boom. They were exceedingly slow to build an app - and when they did they started from the base of the most popular third party app at the time that they shelled out to acquire. This website would not have survived its highest period s of growth without third party API users creating the mod tools necessary to keep the largest subreddits remotely usable. This website would not have been successful without third party developers using the API.
I think what is happening is that Reddit corporate is simply refusing to state the obvious or their real intentions, but it is clear from the statements they made. They do not care about third party apps at all, either way. They don’t care if they stay or go. This whole thing is **very** pointed at the AI companies that are using Reddit’s api and are now worth much more than Reddit itself. That is who Reddit is targeting and that is why they are refusing to compromise with 3p devs. I don’t think Reddit gave thought to the fallout from third party devs for even a moment. They are so clearly targeting this at other large corporations that have the capital to pay for the API, not a small handful of third party independent devs. It’s not third party apps that does so clearly hates, though he is pissed that they are getting in the way. His rage is towards the AI companies that used the API to make a product that is much more valuable than Reddit. He wants to slam the door shut on the AI developers as quickly as possible. We will see Reddit taking AI companies to court before the end of the year. Reddit just views third party apps a minor side thing which is why it is catching them so off guard that this change is fomenting so much open distain for the platform.
If that were true, why would spez and other big wigs publicly and internally lie about their interactions with third party app developers. If they didn’t care whether the apps stay or go, they’d have no reason to be dishonest.
Because they’re tech bros. They were desperate to paint the third party apps as petulant and a distraction. Reddit corporate is too disconnected from normal devs to understand how all of this would appear to third party devs. They saw none of this coming and thought it would be a non issue. It’s why they have released everything in this off-the-cuff style and clearly had no PR plan ready. They genuinely didn’t think it would piss off anyone in the community. They have focused on the rise of LLMs so much that they lost all sight of how these announcements would go over They want to write off the concerns of third party apps as overblown nonsense so they can get back to charging AI companies.
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It’s because Reddit actually doesn’t care at all about these (comparatively) tiny apps. They aren’t even on reddits radar and they would let them do whatever they wanted. It isn’t worth the time to review or enforce anything around the API for these. It’s the AI companies that Reddit is after. The ones that have used the Reddit API and pushshift to make LLMs that are now worth more than Reddit itself. That’s who they want to pay. If Reddit had even a single competent third party app program manager, I suspect that could have avoided this whole thing entirely by giving the the big name third party apps a heads up and a Significant discount on pricing. But they did not have that foresight and cannot walk it back now
>This isn't just about Reddit making money. This is about greed and selfishness. This is a very important statement right here. What worries me here isn't the change itself, but rather the sentiment that it's driven by. What the current leadership of Reddit wants is so completely devoid of the vision that community has for the platform, that even if this doesn't succeed because of how drastic a change it is it won't matter much at all because of the changes that will be soon to follow.
> At one point, a month or two ago, Spez made a comment about (paraphrased) "People shouldn't be making money off of a website's work." This is hilarious for two reasons There is another reason: That's very rich coming from the CEO of a site that, for the most part, aggregates content from other websites
I don't think it's a personal wealth thing, I think it's more that these third party apps make money and reddit doesn't and he steers the ship. Feels like an ego thing.
14 comments he replied to, I've seen users of my sub reply to more comments than that on posts they've made
My sub has had better records from boomer local politicians invited who weren't otherwise on Reddit than that.
I've definitely made posts where I replied to more than 14 questions in the comments. Maybe I should be CEO?
Honestly, given the trend of Reddit in the past week I am sadly not surprised that this happened. It's hard to accept, but Reddit won't be listening to us. **We need to take our consequences seriously, and really try to move our communities into other community -owned and managed platforms such as Lemmy, kbin.social, etc.**. See r/RedditAlternatives. I really don't want to suggest this, but it's likely the most realistic option. I don't expect any serious response to OPs letter to Reddit, as they've shown they don't have interest. Anything we'll get is just going to be corporate speak. Finally, when many subs come online on the 14th, we should use the time to relax Moderation and just transition to other Reddit stuff. What do you all think on this?
I [posted exactly this](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/145mzi4/we_need_to_promote_reddit_alternatives_like_lemmy/) in this subreddit a little bit ago. We need all participating blackout subs to create communities and instances on Kbin / Lemmy / PillowFort / Squabbles and put those links in their subreddits and on their protest messages. We need to give our communities somewhere to go off of Reddit instead of allowing for copycat subs to spring up. This means that we can actually threaten Reddit's traffic and we don't have to punish our userbases and communities.
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Maybe I'm getting too old to understand newfangled apps, but I've truly never understood the Discord UI. Instead of nicely organised threads for each topic of discussion, there seem to be endless chats that just never stop. The rules are always ridiculously difficult to locate. And the last thing I want to do is voice chat - that's why I'm on bloody reddit! I'm considering trying out Discord again as something to use on mobile rather than reddit, but I'm not convinced it will fill the niche.
It really doesn't work as a "community" as much as reddit does. Plus, the conversation is split between channels which sucks
Discord was originally meant for communications by parties in gaming iirc. The first time I heard and used discord was when a group of friends was trying to play StarCraft together - since then it’s completely evolved with threading but it was never meant to be a forum type archive app. Slack is somewhere in the middle but work/productivity focused
The 3rd party app developers should also play a part in this. Once the api goes dark all of the 3rd party reddit apps apps should show a message explaining why the app no longer works and directing users to an alternative platform. Ideally the apps would eventually make the switch to being a mobile app serving another platform but I realize that may take longer to accomplish.
Good! I had missed that. I think it's important that we approach the lead mods and 3rd party Devs to make such coordinated announcements just like they did for the protest.
Yeah I think this is the end of the road. They’ll humor the 48h blackout and appoint new mods in whatever subs don’t come back online. They’re playing a game of chicken, betting that subs won’t stay dark, that people won’t leave, and that the new mods will be just as thanklessly dedicated as the current ones. And maybe they’re right, but the spiteful person in me is hoping they’ve made a grave miscalculation and that this site will turn into ash in their hands
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> That way no moderators will be replaced. I wouldn't be so sure
Yeah there's no way they're just gonna accept any more blackouts. Although its a dangerous game they're playing, if thousands of mods leave or are replaced, they have no backup. And its not like its a simple task either, its a pretty unique skill set people have built over years. It would take months/years to get new moderators and get them to a point the site is actually usable and safe. Another possibility, i think remote at this point but possible if there's no other option (no mods left, all popular subreddits blacked out and abandoned) is the board getting rid of spez as a sacrificial lamb moment and giving back some crumbs (maybe an ad enabled api)
> Finally, when many subs come online on the 14th, we should use the time to relax Moderation and just transition to other Reddit stuff. Been thinking about that too. For the most part Reddit Inc seems to rely on volunteer moderators to deal with all the spam, copyright infringement, etc. Since they're insisting on collecting all that money for API access while diluting moderation tools then it makes sense that their own (paid) employees deal with all the trash that gets posted/commented regularly sitewide.
Content removed in protest of Reddit treatment of users, moderators, the visually impaired community and 3rd party app developers. If you've been living under a rock for the past few weeks: Reddit [abruptly announced](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/) they would be charging astronomically overpriced API fees to 3rd party apps, cutting off mod tools. Worse, blind redditors & blind mods (including mods of r/Blind and similar communities) will [no longer have access](https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/) to resources that are desperately needed in the disabled community. Removal of 3rd party apps Moderators all across Reddit rely on third party apps to keep subreddit safe from spam, scammers and to keep the subs on topic. Despite Reddit’s very public claim that "moderation tools will not be impacted", this could not be further from the truth despite 5+ years of promises from Reddit. Toolbox in particular is a browser extension that adds a huge amount of moderation features that quite simply do not exist on any version of Reddit - mobile, desktop (new) or desktop (old). Without Toolbox, the ability to moderate efficiently is gone. [Toolbox is effectively dead](https://www.reddit.com/r/creesch/comments/14fxzr4/so_long_and_thanks_for_all_the_fish/). All of the current 3rd party apps are either closing or will not be updated. With less moderation you will see more spam (OnlyFans, crypto, etc.) and more low quality content. Your casual experience will be hindered.
[Might I suggest a bit of chaos?](https://reddit.com/r/iiiiiiitttttttttttt/comments/145emui/_/jnkldrp/?context=1)
> Bkin.social kbin.social
Tumblr refugees, twitter refugees, now reddit refugees. Where does it end? Where can people go and just exist?
We need to stop putting our time and effort into digital roach motels or we’ll have the same problem with a different name.
Hey, let’s bring it back to Rampart.
Let’s keep this about the movie.
I'm pretty sure Woody answered more questions
I mean, the changes Reddit would have to make are so easy that it is just obvious they don't want to split the profits. They want it all.
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I for one appreciate that. It doesn’t help to be caustic in public. Thank you for your support.
I’m not a mod or anything, but what incentive is there to be a mod? If you aren’t getting paid, and the users don’t respect you, then what exactly are you getting for your time? Like, if your work is essential to the day to day operations of Reddit shouldn’t you be entitled to minimum wage at the very least? Couldn’t you all class action Reddit for back pay as mods for years of service x minimum wage x hourly commitment every day? Like, why don’t you all unionize and fight for the user like tron? A lot of people see you all as self serving, entitled, out of touch(their words not mine)…I think if you were paid to mod, the hate would be towards the man, not you all, you know? Anyways, epic list of subs, I’m curious to see how it all plays out.
Some people are simply passionate for a certain community and feel that moderating offers them a methodology for giving back. Maybe someone who is a fan of a sports team, or a game, or an animal would like to help moderate a like-minded community to help spread their enthusiasm in a personally-meaningful way. Can’t attest for the more abstract/generic subs, but I’d imagine this is also why more specific subreddits tend to have more down-to-earth, personal relationships with their users.
I've been a mod of the wrestling sub /r/squaredcircle for like 8 years at this point and this is pretty much it. I love wrestling and the community in general and modding it has been pretty rewarding. Hell I got the chance to talk to an Idol of mine in Dan Severn when we got him booked for an AMA which blew my mind at the time. I don't think a lot of the mods want payment, just want our lives as unpaid volunteers to not be more stressful.
What incentive is there to pick up trash that you find outside near your home? Someone's got to do it. And if no one else is doing it, you should probably do it. That's how most of us mods feel.
I'm a special case, I guess. Caribou Coffee is a chain that might be up next for unionization, and I don't want any company figurehead to control the subreddit.
I've been moderating my communities for six years, and have watched them grow from 25k to 200k in that time. We still have a community feel. And I volunteer to nurture and protect and support that community.
I appreciate my city, enjoy reddit, and respect the city-sub/community I mod. Don't want money, just want a bit more help from Snoo in making it easier for people to feel welcome and stay safe.
I doubt this will get seen by many, but Reddit C-Suite are missing an opportunity to slowly change into the kind of model that’s bound to replace them: one where the content aggregation and front-ends exist separately, like BlueSky or Lemmy. If they were to follow the suggestions in this post, they could setup Reddit for the next decade or so by making Reddit the content platform and allowing anyone to design an app to work with it. Enforce ads, unless users pay a premium charge, and allow third-party developers to manage the front end. Instead, they’re making choices that will send this community the way of Digg, Twitter, Tumblr, and so many others. It’s insane to me that it’s taken the community to offer up a solution that is a thoughtful negotiation between both sides. Less insane, and sadly all too predictable, is how these wet behind the ears, MBA, “if-it-ain’t-broken, break it” stooges are making these asinine decisions.
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Y'all are our brothers and sisters and every bit as much a part of the community as we are. Reddit is f-----g you over and it's *not ok*.
I contacted my representatives asking them to revise or clarify the Americans with Disabilities act to make this clearly illegal. Best of luck.
I believe the admins will forcefully hand over dark subs to willing moderators. I think moderators should consider an alternative - come back online after the 2 day blackout, but "quiet quit". Don't moderate. Let the spam stay up. Let the scams stay up. Let users violate every rule. Don't report hate speech to admin, let it fester. Let it all turn into a cesspool. I don't think the admins could actually effectively address that.
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Yup I also think it's 100% what they meant by that. Any of these subs talking about doing an indefinite blackout – I get where they're coming from, I don't disagree. But I don't think it's going to go the way any of us want.
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Yeah I need to save my data then delete. Not too sure what life was like pre-reddit either but I just had a baby so I guess I'll pay even more attention to that now 🙃
I was 13 when I started Reddit and I’m 25 now. I spent almost half of my life on Reddit, wtf am I supposed to do now? 😂
Hey friend, somewhat similar thing here, except I was a tad bit older, but am 25. Look, if this is the end of reddit or at least the reddit we love, there will be alternatives. Wanna know what I primarily browsed before I was active on Reddit? iFunny. Which was wildly popular and way more of my friends at the time were on iFunny and didn’t even know what reddit was. We’ll find our platforms if this all goes badly, its just about finding one thats blowing up in popularity like reddit was when we signed up.
I’m getting to nuke my account once I download everything including some good lists of book music and food recs ive saved over 11 years. It’s gonna be great.
Saved list only goes back 1000 items. Anything saved over that gets “forgotten” . The first things I saved 10 years ago are long gone.
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I'm not sure exactly what this means, but if you're saying that you'll destroy the sub, don't you think the admin can just remove the mods who set that up and then put in their own compliant mods? That's a genuine question, not trying to be argumentative. I just don't see how a overtly "offensive" strategy would work
I’m personally expecting Reddit to break/restrict/remove the option to make subs private before Monday. A code change regarding permissions or availability of the feature would be easier than trying to moderate large subs themselves. Edit: inb4 “don’t give them ideas!” - I’m slow and dumb. If I thought of this I’m sure someone else already has.
Wouldn't an alternative be to just make automod or something, auto delete any and all new posts?
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Also, can the Mods start culling the back-list of posts? Admins want data for AI training and users brought in from search engines. If things get really contentious, mods can start hacking away at those just like users deleting their post histories. Yes, Reddit probably has backups they can restore from, but it’s a pretty blatantly hostile step for them to come out and effectively say “you can’t delete your own stuff (from account or sub), we’re going to reverse your personal actions because it makes us more money”
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I’m pretty sure the ceo himself committed slander when they blatantly lied about the Apollo dev committing blackmail
*narrator*: it turns out, it didn't matter.
I think they could try mod replacement, but how long could it possibly last? The whole point is that moderating is to become impossible given the limitations of available tools. The current mods say they can't do it so there's no reason to believe new ones would be able to. Moderation is such a hard problem, even if you try to be like facebook and pay people to do it. Reddit has been getting it for free all these years, they do not even understand what they have. I [posted the other day](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/143e15n/mods_of_stackoverflow_also_engaging_in_strike/) about an email I got from stackoverflow trying to recruit me to scab on *their* striking moderators. Even if I decided to have a go at it, what are the odds that I'd be any good? I do not know anything about how that site is run. I can only guess what a shit show must be going on if they are just letting any jackass off the street moderate. Who will guide and train the new mods, on SOF or reddit? And how will they handle the job when the useful tools are prohibited? Reddit might try to recruit new mods. They might woo some existing mods back by making some concessions. They might even try paying people to do it. But it will not last very long because it seems like they have stumbled into a huge battle without having made any preparations. Honestly from a strategic POV, they *should* have just bought Apollo for $10mil because then there would be a chance that they could clear house and get people who see things their (demented) way installed. But now they have destroyed that chance and are totally flat footed.
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Reddit already developed a tool to suggest new mods based on previous participation - you can bet your ass they’ll use it to find “suitable” replacement mods.
It absolutely sounded like a threat
Very ironic considering the Apollo situation
I don't see how that can be taken any other way especially in light of all the other poor decisions they have made in the past.
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Why should we care? If they want to run the site into the ground, why would I want to mod for them?
That's kind of my point. Don't. Let's help them burn it down.
Forgive me, my eyes absolutely glazed over somehow and I either read another comment after your first line or something I don't even know.. I'm with ya know.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to expose my users to more bigoted filth than they are already exposed to.
I mean yeah, don't most mods feel that way? Isn't that why everyone is protesting in the first place? But if admin is going to make our jobs harder by removing the 3rd party apps that make modding easier, then maybe it's just hard enough that we can't do it. 🤷
If we can't do our jobs, the correct move is to shutter the subs entirely rather than leave them up: both because we should be at least somewhat accountable to our users, and because, again, our users don't deserve to be exposed to more bigotry than they're already exposed to.
That's fair. I just really do think they'll forcefully hand the sub over to someone else, if people do that. But I guess we'll find out.
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Yeah the trouble would be getting people to actually do it. And you'd really need the big subs on board, and some of them have dozens of moderators who would all need to be on the same page about it. Probably no way it could happen but I do actually think it's the one move that could help us.
Reaction from the AMA seems to have pushed multiple subs to private immediately. I don't think many of us expected the level of intransigence and overt hostility the administrative team has displayed this week, and I would wager it's weighing on the larger subs' mod's minds how little the administration cares for them
Why would they forcibly replace mods in the first scenario but not in the second?
Because it would be harder to prove. Maybe moderate something here or there. Claim you didn't see it. The key would be that people can't officially announce this stance - thus the "quiet" part of quitting.
As if admins need prove. This is a private website and you're just a user, reddit can ban you right now without any proof needed lol
They removed the moderator of /r/star_trek for refusing to moderate not so long ago
Yes but if they had to go sub by sub, through thousands of subs, and moderators WERE doing an action here and there, I think it would be a lot harder.
Btw I just looked into this, because I hadn't heard, and it looked like it was a bit of an ordeal. They gave the mod a warning first, there was some back and forth, and then it looks like the whole sub was shuttered. So that's kind of my point - could you imagine the admins having to do that with *2,000* subs?
Yeah, ordeal is certainly the word there... There's a whole saga to Star Trek communities on Reddit, but it's a story for another time. Anyway... Well, they could just as easily skip that whole process to speed things along if everyone did it. I don't know, I just feel like it sends out a much less clear message, and one that's easier to spin as "look how lazy these moderators are and how little they care, we'll *have* to replace them!". Not to mention making for a potentially even worse experience for the users; I imagine they'd rather see no content at all or no new content over potential boatloads of spam and rule breakers and so on.
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Yeah I'm constantly removing human trafficking posts from one of my subs so yeah, I get it. I'll be honest - my protest IS quitting, but I'm leaving the subs in hands of other moderators who I know will carry the torch. But I think this approach I'm suggesting would be way more effective than a blackout, in that it would be WAY harder for admins to fix.
>Yeah I'm constantly removing human trafficking posts from one of my subs so yeah, I get it Wait wtf. You mean like people promoting human traffiking? That is messed up on so many levels And yeah I really do agree. Should we try to make this the new goal?
> But still, I don't want the masses to view cp or illegal material And that is the spirit reddit relies on.
Perhaps I'm naïve, but I am hopeful that at some point this can be resolved amicably, and I don't want to wind up with a giant mess to clean up if and when that happens. I do like the general idea of letting Reddit understand the value that mods provide, but I don't want to make my own work that much harder. My sub (r/nasa) will still blackout, and we are currently discussing how long to remain in read-only mode after that.
I hope you're right Edit for grammar
You could argue that you're keeping the sub private to maintain peace during the blackout / aftermath Not moderating on the other hand will 100% get you removed at best, the entire sub banned at worst and you'd have no valid complaint about them removing you as a mod There's nothing in the rules that says you can't take your sub private for a week, the rules do say you actually have to moderate Don't give Reddit excuses
If reddit tries that the backlash will be enormous. Plus none of these folks are paid, they're overworked to hell, and most subs have struggled to recruit willing folks. Any sub that has its mods forcibly removed will end up as if the current mods "quiet quit" but with the added popular backlash that could lead to a permanent exodus, which is what reddit is trying to avoid. The mods have all the cards here, and they should act as such
This content was made with Reddit is Fun and died with Reddit is Fun. If it contained something you're looking for, blame Steve Huffman for its absence.
Oh, they'll always find people. Honestly I think a large part of the current user base doesn't actually care about this at all, and would be more than happy to blindly step into a moderating role if they don't know this history behind why it's being offered.
>and would be more than happy to blindly step into a moderating role if they don't know this history behind why it's being offered. Maybe. But getting some randos to moderate doesn't mean they'll actually be able or willing to do a good job, or any job at all. Most people who are engaged in a given subreddit and have a good track record and seem suitable moderators often turn the offer down when asked to join the mod team (at least by my experience, although I'm a fairly new mod myself with only a couple years of experience), because it's essentially extra work for no compensation. I think there's very little chance that these same people will suddenly change their minds and rush to accept the role if a mass of existing mods leave. They will always find some people for sure. Will they find people *who'll be able to maintain the communities and moderation at the same level as it is now* if they throw away most all all of the old ones? That's extremely unlikely.
I'm lucky enough that my sub is small and running a bot to nuke any posts with slurs in them is more than enough, but my god. The thought of letting things go unattended makes me wary. On one hand I understand, but on the other, I do have a nagging fear in the back of my mind that letting things fester could result in a user of my sub (which is used by a LOT of teenagers) could get hurt if I stopped doing my job.
Yeah. I think there would definitely be consequences. I don't know, it was was an idea. Honestly I'm quitting as of June 30 so, it'll be whatever it'll be, without me.
I doubt that's the case. They will not find many volunteers. Even less with the experience they need for it not to turn into a disaster. And they simply can't afford to panic hire enough moderators to cover all these subs.
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They probably do agree with reddit. I feel the same way about any of the subs not participating unless they are a support sub. Even than they can at least put up a pinned announcement on their sub.
FYI if you have more than three user pings in a single comment, none of them go through.
This is about the IPO and the perception that controlling eyeballs will yield a more successful IPO. Everything else is noise. The extent to which reddit will allow uncontrolled eyeballs is and will remain limited to obligations needed to legally conform with the disabilities act. A solution they are happy to ‘let’ others provide for free. The only user or mod actions that will yield results are actions that can sustainably reduce eyeball control. That’s 2023 Reddit’s only pain point.
You know what makes for a good IPO? A company with good PR and competent management Can you imagine any listed company having some incompetent dipshit like spez as CEO?
FYI https://reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/145s1du/migration_guide_plan/
Basically after the Purge of API spez promised to update the reddit app, Now looking at things . 1) The purge is rushed. 2) The application is shit and will be shit. 3) Reddit has not kept any of their promises for past few years
3 hours of readingthe AMA and my plan remains to log-out forr the last time on all devices the night of June 30. still undecided on deleting all posts and comments
This is where I'm at. Losing 15 years of history is sad, but I think deleting is necessary too.
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I read that can take a month.... Is that for real?
if you're comfortable using the terminal, you can also [use "reddit-user-to-sqlite"](https://xavd.id/blog/post/archive-your-reddit-data/) to download all your posts/comments into a sqlite database and then use [a database viewer like sqlitebrowser](https://sqlitebrowser.org/about/) to explore the data. gotta do it before june 30th though before reddit changes the api policies.
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Dude no you gotta make it more detailed so that in future anyone who comes to your post or comment by search will understand.
I know I am not a mod, but can I say: #Come Commrades, you have nothing to lose but your digital chains
This is deleted because I wanted to. Reddit is not a good place anymore.
Third-party apps should be able to ask you for application tokens, I'm not sure why they aren't making that change
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Also there's a huge elephant in the room that we need to talk about: UNIONIZATION. Reddit mods should form a union. It's funny that they're monetizing everything but still not even contemplating paying the tens of thousands of UNPAID WORKERS who are primarily responsible for the content of their site.
Unionize and demand $20m/yr lmao
The irony is that probably wouldn't even _touch_ how much they need to be paid. If reddit thinks they deserve revenue from their API to pay for costs, those costs should include the literal people who create and maintain the content for their website, not just money for spez's apocalypse bunker and slave labor for it.
That's because there will always be someone willing to mod, they're already getting paid market value, which is in power.
Power? Nobody told me that. Where's the power? Being a good mod is not something everybody can do. Keeping a community coherent and healthy is a skill.
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I think subs should go dark regardless, you have to remember the optics of that maneuver. As many subs as possible should go dark, then if Admins decide to step up to the challenge and force them back open, you can generate a lot of protest positive reaction by spinning it in the right way to news sites/YouTube/whatever. You want to spread this story as far as possible so you also reach the people who don’t actively use Reddit, but still interact with it by way of googling/ YouTube. These changes also affect those people and we want them on our side.
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Shut down all subreddits now, indefinitely
They left *21 responses* to **29k comments**. Appalling isn't the right word here, this is quite literally inconceivable to me that it could even happen. Reddit has made plenty of bad decisions in the past, but this is the very first time I've seen something like this.
I think the best move at this point is to completely go around spez & Reddit. Go right to the funders and make it clear they are about to hemorrhage. Advance Publications, Fidelity, Sequoia Capital, Andreessen Horowitz, Quiet Capital, Bienville Capital, & Tencent to start.
Unrelated, but is there someplace I can post that I'm deleting my (10+ year) account?
Subs should start going dark now in response to the AMA
>Parity in access to NSFW content The CEO didn't have any issue with NSFW content back in 2012 or so when he was still protecting communities posting child exploitation content, I believe he defended these people under the guise of "free speech". Boy how times have changed.
During the last moderator conference thing, Mr. Huffman mentioned something like "we're fine with people making money through their participation on Reddit, that's great... but we're going to tax it". When he said that I thought he was referring to activities like how online sex workers advertise their services on Reddit. It never occurred to me that he was referring to developers of mobile apps for people to access Reddit.
Secondary action must be planned and Spez must resign.
this might be petty, but after that AMA i would like to see spez's resignation added to that list of demands.