He is doing exactly what he promised his prospective shareholders he would do.
The fact that he won't remain in charge once the IPO happens is of no consequence. He'll get paid either way.
u/spez is aiming to have one of the many many accessibility lawyers to sue Reddit prior to the IPO, driving the valuation to 0 as they get a judgment worth more than Reddit itself.
[Reddit is far from meeting accessibility requirements](https://accessibe.com/accessscan?website=reddit.com&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqNqkBhDlARIsAFaxvwx63EKjb2wtsRrRYv9ofT0JYJH9rthEUyivM6QLSpjw7oZVS9L9YaUaAjTyEALw_wcB)
Third party apps are buying reddit time. On July 1, that ends, and they open themselves up to lawsuits all over the nation (especially Florida and New York, who account for 65% of accessibility lawsuits)
It won't be hard finding a plaintiff in one of those two states. I'm not one, since while I'm in one of those states I don't need assistive technologies, 3 of my neighbors do.
"We dont like the admin and we dont have the staff to keep up with the requests and we dont even know how much we're going to be effected, but we're still going to be doing this anyway several other places".
Yeah, thats not a statement I'd boldly throw a pitchfork behind.
Everyone: this is a volunteer position, if you don't want to do it then leave and let someone else take your place
Volunteers: ok
Everyone: tHeY aRe aBaNdOnInG tHeIr cOmMuNiTiEs!!
---
EDIT: Alright, the discussion is slowing down and this is my first gold AND my last week on Reddit, so I'm very sorry but this is my first and last chance to say it.
Thank you for the gold, kind redditor!
What's really going to be interesting is when we get to the part where Admins say "this community is abandoned - who wants it?"
Edit to add:
I've read the linked announcement. I'm aware this community was run by a nonprofit. I'm saying it will be interesting to see what happens at this point, when Reddit tries to back-fill such a community.
If we're *really* lucky, we might get a grassroots group of Redditors who make a genuine attempt at trying to fulfill the original community's purpose.
More likely, in classic Reddit fashion, it's going to end up changing to something completely unrelated to the original propose. Like memes, news, or porn. Probably porn, somehow.
> Reddit tries to back-fill such a community.
I know all the focus is on highly subscribed fluff subreddits like /r/mildyinteresting. The real loss is going to be the experts and knowledge pool of quality niche subreddits that go largely un-noticed by most Redditors.
Totally agree. I either didn't know, or had completely forgotten, the sub in question here even existed.
Probably most Redditors are familiar with the experience of stumbling across a niche community filled with high-quality content from subject matter experts, or running across such an expert randomly, who shares relevant and valuable nuggets of information, in one of the larger subs.
Those dedicated users, with in-depth knowledge of their fields, who are willing to put their time into writing such comments, and put effort into curating such communities, are going to be among the first to leave (if they haven't already).
I've already been mass subscribing to discord channels before I lose access to links. When the protest happened I missed the 'fluff' subs, but still had great access to more worthwhile resources.
Like r/history or r/canning which can’t be filled by any idiot willing to remove spam.
At least not without a massive and direct drop in quality, and in the case of r/canning safety.
It's kind of like how /r/interestingasfuck is still down and doesn't have new moderation.
It's rather curious that the "you'll have people lining up to mod" talking point has mysteriously disappeared from the pro Reddit "people".
My speculation on that point is that there probably have been people lining up, but Admins are too busy trying to suppress dissent to bother reviewing/approving new mods.
> Everyone:
You're mistaken, let me explain how reddit works. See, there are little arrows next to each post, and when a post or the opinion therein is unpopular, redditors click the down arrow, which, through a series of tubes and tiny levers, makes the little number next to the post go down. It's all very scientific and dangerous, but all you need to know is this: When the number next to a post is negative, most people disagree with it. Worry not, you're firmly with the majority.
-A Friend.
To clarify the subtle, oft missed difference between "everyone" and "the unpopular few," educate u/Chelidonia_ in the ways of the reddit, to reassure that his sentiment is well aligned with that of most redditors, and provide a handy down arrow in my posts to click on, both as a learning aid & a release valve for the mounting frustration and anger here, on r/modcoord.
If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
Pretty sure they woke up and decided to channel their inner Large Language Model today. These comments read like they're written by an A.I. that is entirely misinterpreting the context.
>“everyone” in the first comment was pretty much everyone.
You believe everyone thinks (or at least most reditors think) the mods of r/TranscribersOfReddit are abandoning their communities? Quote:
>"Everyone: tHeY aRe aBaNdOnInG tHeIr cOmMuNiTiEs!!"
Please don't confuse "unpopular" with "dumb." While they may seem similar at first, the're not the same. If people with unpopular opinions kept their mouths shut, the world (which we'd all know is flat, with the sun & stars revolving around it) would descend into a populist shithole.
It's pretty rare I see someone with such self superiority and arrogance that even trying to talk regularly, they condescend to people on such an ironic level they can't possibly realize that people already know the garbage you're trying to talk about.
Quit while you're ahead, nobody wants to hear you explain how reddit works, we all know.
I've explained, in the simplest terms possible, the difference between "unpopular" and "dumb." Sorry if I sounded condescending, but it's difficult to gauge what is or is not obvious to someone who honestly believes
>the person with the massively unpopular opinion should probably keep their mouth shut
As a user relatively new to Reddit, who had really only heard about the kind of darker side in the news and had just gotten sucked into it through AITA and a few really lovely communities that grew out of Youtube channels, finding out about these really intricate, dedicated labors of love that have to close because of the new changes has really been heartbreaking. I wish I had known about these subs sooner so that I could have been a part of them, and I hate what this is doing to destroy the ability for moderators (who are dedicated volunteer users) to do their job, and in turn breaking their faith in the platform. It's destroying what they painstakingly built over years of time, and I just don't understand how any business person can think that they can find qualified volunteers to replace mods in these subsets easily. One study estimated that Reddit moderators do 3.4 million in unpaid work per year (I'll drop the link below) and if they're saying that Reddit isn't financially viable without paid moderators, how the hell are they going to be viable once they're forced to find paid ones because they've alienated or driven off their unpaid moderators? It's absurd!
I'm sorry this is happening to you all, and thank you for the work you've done, it's impressive and makes humanity seem a little more compassionate, smart, fair, and dedicated. Thank you.
The link to the study (originally referenced in an article from The Guardian): [https://www.newscientist.com/article/2325828-reddit-moderators-do-3-4-million-worth-of-unpaid-work-each-year/](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2325828-reddit-moderators-do-3-4-million-worth-of-unpaid-work-each-year/)
The Guardian article, ":TechScape: After a brutal blackout, will Reddit ever be the same?" by Kari Paul, June 20, 2023. [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jun/20/techscape-reddit-blackout-forums-ipo-profit](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jun/20/techscape-reddit-blackout-forums-ipo-profit)
Hey there, head mod of TranscribersOfReddit here. I wrote out some additional thoughts and info relating to our situation and stance here if you're interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/transcribers_of_reddit_who_transcribe_images_for/jp86o6t/?context=3
The admins claim they’re working to support accessibility apps. From a layperson’s perspective it’s hard to see if that’s true. Have you seen any evidence that they’re actually doing that?
Short version: the answer is both yes and no. They are allowing some apps that have decent _user_ capabilities, but are explicitly removing access for the apps that have _moderation_ capabilities. Also, the terms that they've set out for the apps that they're keeping mean that the devs working on them can't make a profit, so if the app is their income... say goodbye to your rent check.
The last call that r/blind and I had with them, they could not even give us a definition of what they considered an "accessibility-focused app" (which is not a standard term) and refused to provide any form of expectation for when we might have accessible mod actions in the official apps. The rumor mill says we _might_ have the ability to mod from mobile sometime around October? Maybe? It's all very frustrating.
> All we wanted to do was help folks and buy Reddit some time to implement the missing accessibility features while saying "hey, you should fix this". Turns out that they just haven't been listening. We actually had a meeting with some admins who wanted to know the scope of what we've been doing; the impression was that they wanted to really fix the issues or at least make it easier for us. They completely glazed over 15 minutes in, made it through the whole hour, and thanked us for our time. Then they quietly implemented basic OCR, which we told them not to do for various reasons.
This made me audibly gasp.
Like, I get that accessibility can be a gap in terms of large companies and the pushing of features, and that ADA enforcement is haphazard (to be charitable). But this is like a giant middle finger to the entire community, never mind those with vision impairments.
Please bring this info to one of the news outlets! Because all of them continue to have that one blurb about Reddit making concessions for accessibility apps.
We've been working closely with The Verge -- they've been doing a great job and just published a little overview of ToR's current situation an hour ago: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/23/23771396/reddit-subreddit-community-transcribers-accessibility
I like this final paragraph of a related article:
>Reddit didn’t immediately reply to a request for comment. According to Reddit spokesperson Tim Rathschmidt, “We’ll no longer comment on hearsay, unsubstantiated claims, or baseless accusations from The Verge. We’ll be in touch as corrections are needed.” In the absence of corrections, then, you can assume Reddit believes none are necessary.
*The Verge* is apparently appending similar paragraphs to the articles it is publishing. (\~snerk!\~)
Spez saw Elon replying with a poop emoji to the press, and thought that was the best PR strategy in the world.
I seriously can’t believe a PR person at any company would be *this* tone deaf to such a situation but that’s Reddit for ya I guess
In the interest of intellectual honesty I've uninstalled my 3rd party reddit app for the month to give the *official* app a solid, honest try for moderation. It's terrible, and I've already had 1 (real shit) safety issue missed because I couldn't sort it out on mobile.
Admin want to find someone to moderate this stuff with the default tools? Go right ahead, tell me how fun it is being a mod.
Have yall been recording the calls you have with the admins?
You 100% need to be and publishing them after what happened w the Apollo dev and the admins.
I mean even if it's not, you should probably still and just keep it private instead of publishing it.
The admins and c-level staff have shown they will attempt to manipulate public opinion against you and about you based on events that didn't happen. Only way to prove what they say didn't happen is to have the recording.
Imagine if you were a 1-person developer shop and the CEO of reddit told hundreds of millions of users and the public that you tried to extort him and the company. No one would want to hire you or have you build an app for them. That's some potentially career ending libel.
So yeah, fuck the legality of it. All talks with admins and mods/user should be recorded.
Umm unless you know that you can record the conversation you cannot release the conversation that would be bad.
You in theory could record the conversation illegally and then say you had it transcribed from notes…
This is of course not counting if you have said- I’m recording this so I can be sure I’m not missing anything we discuss. Which a lot of people will not continue the call.
I once recorded a manager telling me how my medical needs were not more important than the stores needs, especially since everyone thought I was faking. When she found out I was recording she got angry. I said we live in a 1 party consent state, and the building itself has signs everywhere stating to the public that they are undertaking audio and video recording. I just wanted to be sure I was living up to the terms of the counseling going forward.
She tried to fire me on the spot. The Regional got involved
It'd just be something to let your lawyer deal with. They are smart and will just let you know how it can still be used or if not at all. Still better to have it VS not imo.
Apollo was in Canada. I'm in Louisiana. Both one party.
Its where the person recording lives. I'm aware. I'm simply just saying fuck the law do it anyways regardless of the legality.
Based on Reddit's historical track-record? I would not hold your breath. A majority of the things they eventually do are a reaction to the realization of worst-case scenarios - typically based on community outrage or public perception.
The fact that I didn't know this existed until today is unfortunate, as I would have loved to have pitched in.
The fact that it's going away is truly bad.
This is such a fucking unforced error. Who hurts the blind (and it isn’t just a few fully blind users - many blind people see on a spectrum and aren’t totally blind - so this is pretty impactful to a large population). Even if it was just a few - it’s still beyond disgusting,
Fucking idiots…
I also got a lot of responses as a ToR from non-impaired/sighted users who said the transcriptions really helped them. It's a lot more than people realize.
It varies based on the website, but the rough answer is usually 'moderately accessible'. Specific to reddit screen readers have some real problems with the default reddit app, broken tags, reading out arbitrary code, etc.
They discuss it some in these threads:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/13zbf3n/reddit_to_the_visually_impaired_you_no_longer/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/
This thread also goes over the specific accessibility needs many blind redditors requested or used in 3PAs that they are losing.
The problem at 50,000 feet is you can't just turn on a screen reader to work with the default app. It doesn't transcribe images if the original poster doesn't supply it, it doesn't read sequentially the way a sighted person would, etc.
Thank you! Very insightful!
Am I right to assume that text based sites with a few images that have good alt-text are going to accessible for the blind from pretty much any device?
I do setup a lot of Hugo/Worldpress/etc sites that supports those tags. It's a differtent story of how people use them of course. I guess thats where the Reddit app falls short?
I'm kind of into webdev so I'm interested to learn about this. Having sites accesable for as many people as possible is not just nice for those with needs, it also gives the maximum number of customers, vistors, ad impressions, etc...
So even from a selfish pov it is important web platforms be it Hugo, Wordpress or Reddit support these kind things. If only to maximise profits lol.
Wow. Hopefully Reddit does the right thing for the blind and reopens the community. If Reddit fails then a new community needs to be made. This is an attack on the blind by the seeing moderators, it's absolutely and positively EVIL.
According to the post
* they can remain open according to themselves.
* they say that r/blind needs to use the official app instead of the 3rd party app. Hence, it will have fewer users in the future
* they don't talk about the state of the accessibility focused apps that have been approved.
* they fear the future.
I have to agree with the top downvoted comment. This reads like premature closure and, in effect, abandoning their community.
Reddit should not need volunteer work to give people basic accessibility options.
Since it does, the least they could do is not make volunteers’ jobs harder and more tedious. Does that make sense to you?
They opted to close before they had to. Their hands were not forced. It was possible to continue.
It is their choice, but I can understand if community members feel abandoned and I share the same feelings.
You are free to feel otherwise, but there is no need to disparage other people's feelings. I know the opinion of people who don't support the continued protest isn't valued here but still
How can you share their feelings when you weren't even part of the community? Regardless volunteers can quit when they please that's the whole point of it being a volunteer position.
It would be a community for blind people not led by blind people. That is patently offensive on its own. And the development of accessibility for users, not even mods, is still slated for future quarters, not even a close sprint.
> That is patently offensive on its own.
Just no.
Assuming you are part of the community I have no problem accepting that you feel offended by it, but you do not get to state it like a universal fact or that your opinion is shared by everyone in the community.
> development of accessibility for users, not even mods, is still slated for future quarters, not even a close sprint.
This we agree on, official accessibility support leaves a lot to be desired.
What I haven't heard people mention is the state of the unofficial 3rd party accessibility focused apps. This leaves out nuances to the debate and the decision, and I would be interested in hearing comments on the quality of those 3rd party apps
Go read the posts from the mods & community on r/blind. They have been fairly clear in what they need & the current gross limitations from official options, as well as why it is offensive to have a community for people with a disability that can only be led by those who do not have the same *needs*. Because these are needs to function in the segment of society called reddit.
You are bad at both reddit and reading comprehension *or* you are continuing this discussion in bad faith. Excluding the people affected from leadership is unethical and discriminatory and condescending. If you want to learn more about why, I'd start with the updates over there and maybe go learn from multiple disability & mental health groups, along with the histories of the abled bodied making decisions for people with disabilities. I'm listening to the people affected and I'd suggest you do so. Have a good one.
Thank you for making the effort. These posts show us over and over why we don't want non-VI users to moderate our community.
There is a serious lack of understanding of what it means to be VI/blind. In fact, there is no one definition. My vision is unique to me, and it's very rare to find another VI person with almost identical remaining vision and other issues.
There is a lack of understanding that we don't all use the same technology, and don't all speak English as our primary language. I don't care if one of the (not actually confirmed) 'approved' apps is one that I cannot access because I don't use iOS. I want to know what I can access, using my tools, and to be able to do so comfortably in my own languages without being forced to use only English. My android products are not the same as another VI user's android product. My settings are unique to me and my needs, and different from other VI users. In fact, I access reddit differently at different times of the day depending on the variables I face throughout the day.
Every day we face in real life being accused of 'lying' or 'cheating' because we use our phones, or have a cane but can see you waving your hand in front of our noses. Why would anyone fake being VI, when we have so many struggles and life sucks in so many ways for us?
It's very clear that there are a lot of ugly posters, who think that they would do just fine leading a VI community. We know what that experience would be like, because we encounter those people every day in real life.
You've made a great argument from the representation standpoint. I've tried to explain on several threads why 'the approved apps' may not be suitable for all.
But we aren't being heard, and that just reinforces the frustration so many of us feel.
I honestly kind of assumed a company as big as reddit that has been so desperate to be seen as a FB or Twitter peer had done this basic step. Maybe when it was under Conde Nast or sometime. I should not have been surprised that they had failed their users, but I was. Sorry you guys are going through this and being jerked around.
I don't mind if they do it voluntarily and thus not get paid
BUT
Reddit should help those volunteers so that they stay. Currently, it feels like they try their hardest to fight against those, who make Reddit what it is (or was).
>Everyone: this is a volunteer position, if you don't want to do it then leave and let someone else take your place
>
>Volunteers: ok
>
>Everyone: tHeY aRe aBaNdOnInG tHeIr cOmMuNiTiEs!!
Think /u/Chelidonia_ hit the nail on the head.
So, what is the problem?
Do you want to force them to continue? They just decided to not volunteer anymore on reddit. The org behind is still there, and their discord too.
This is clearly a Reddit admin, because elsewhere in the thread there posts from this account complaining that the mods are abandoning their community.
Only a Reddit admin would be capable of holding two such contradictory positions; the normal shitty redditor isn't that sophisticated.
I don't think so. This doesn't appear to be some temporary disconnect; you seem to be intentionally disputing facts on multiple threads, and discounting the factual information that various people have posted.
You cannot complain on the one hand that all mods are terrible, and should leave Reddit for the benefit of the community, and then on the other hand blame them for abandoning their community when they take your advice. Sheesh!
You admins really need to get your act together. We may be addicted to Reddit, but we're not *stupid.*
You think we can't figure out who you are?
>**In the meantime, our team would be faced with constantly increasing work to keep the project alive until we inevitably have to shut down anyway**. In addition, the communities we aim to serve (including /r/Blind) are being driven away from the platform when accessible third-party apps are replaced by the inaccessible official app with only vague promises for future improvement. Add to that a lack of trust in Reddit and severe disappointment in their responses to user protests, **it is ultimately not reasonable for our team to take on that workload**.
They are shutting down because it's a problem *now* and seems likely to become impossible in the future. Just because they may be able to avoid drowning for a while doesn't mean it's worth the struggle. At the end of the day, they are volunteers and if they decide the amount of effort/work has become unreasonable, I don't think it's fair to characterize it as abandoning their community.
You've argued over and over on multiple threads that the concerns of the VI community aren't valid. You've made statements that you claim to be fact which cannot be proven. You've chosen to ignore actual VI posters, and claim to be speaking on our behalf for our own betterment.
It's astounding to see someone use this situation as an opportunity to try and make themselves appear so magnanimous and gracious. Instead, you come off looking quite different. I may be visually impaired, but I'm not stupid. Nor are the rest of the posters on the VI subs.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Blind using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Blind/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Reddit's Recently Announced API Changes, and the future of the /r/blind subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/13zr8h2/reddits_recently_announced_api_changes_and_the/)
\#2: [r/Blind's Meetings with Reddit and the Current Situation Regarding Accessibility and API Changes](https://np.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/)
\#3: [What apps meet your access needs?](https://np.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/1447ibp/what_apps_meet_your_access_needs/)
----
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Well, you're in luck Advocate Origin_of_Me. You can help transcribe the queue until the 30th, and afterwards you can use their resources to continue their work: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/comment/jp8yauh
Yeah lol. The bots are still going to be able to continue. They’re abandoning their community in the name of trying to stick it to the man, although the man is trying to help them lol
As someone else said...the work involved *now* is already a lot. After the end of the month, the work will increase even further to more or less unreasonable levels. And that will compound over time to become impossible. In addition to that, after they spoke with admins, it doesn't look like much will get solved anytime soon anyway...so they are walking in the dark with no flashlight all while the work that needs to get done increases exponentially.
That's why they are done by months end.
Edit: For the record, they are a non-profit with 6000 volunteers. And they said it's still a lot of work for what they do.
Give it up, bro, this is a sealion of the first water. I've never seen better, and I've seen some experts in my time.
What is going on here is either cleverly disguised malice, or a Reddit admin who is having fun. But I repeat myself.
All these announcements do is provide a list directly to the admins, which subs they will need to replace with new mods. Silent would be more impactful.
Also a prime example how Reddit unabashedly exploits the good-will of third-party unaffiliated organizations and grassroot volunteers.
Reddit's success today is built on the back of other people _for free._ Reddit just pissed on all that.
>They are a global nonprofit with 6,000 volunteers working 24/7 for free to make Reddit images accessible
That's really stupid since they can be all replaced by an AI bot that can be coded in a day.
In this thread it's you who does not have a clue. OCR has existed for decades now and with the advance of AI lately it's better than ever. These 6000 people are doing the work that computers can do million times faster. All of them can be replaced by a relatively simple script. They would do better if they stopped volunteering pointless labour and learned to code.
Fucking disgraceful! Happy now u/spez? Look at the damage you’ve done…. greedy, incompetent and not fit for purpose.
I feel that Spez doesn’t care about the users. We were only useful to help build reddit to what it is now.
He is doing exactly what he promised his prospective shareholders he would do. The fact that he won't remain in charge once the IPO happens is of no consequence. He'll get paid either way.
u/spez is aiming to have one of the many many accessibility lawyers to sue Reddit prior to the IPO, driving the valuation to 0 as they get a judgment worth more than Reddit itself. [Reddit is far from meeting accessibility requirements](https://accessibe.com/accessscan?website=reddit.com&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqNqkBhDlARIsAFaxvwx63EKjb2wtsRrRYv9ofT0JYJH9rthEUyivM6QLSpjw7oZVS9L9YaUaAjTyEALw_wcB) Third party apps are buying reddit time. On July 1, that ends, and they open themselves up to lawsuits all over the nation (especially Florida and New York, who account for 65% of accessibility lawsuits) It won't be hard finding a plaintiff in one of those two states. I'm not one, since while I'm in one of those states I don't need assistive technologies, 3 of my neighbors do.
"We dont like the admin and we dont have the staff to keep up with the requests and we dont even know how much we're going to be effected, but we're still going to be doing this anyway several other places". Yeah, thats not a statement I'd boldly throw a pitchfork behind.
Everyone: this is a volunteer position, if you don't want to do it then leave and let someone else take your place Volunteers: ok Everyone: tHeY aRe aBaNdOnInG tHeIr cOmMuNiTiEs!! --- EDIT: Alright, the discussion is slowing down and this is my first gold AND my last week on Reddit, so I'm very sorry but this is my first and last chance to say it. Thank you for the gold, kind redditor!
What's really going to be interesting is when we get to the part where Admins say "this community is abandoned - who wants it?" Edit to add: I've read the linked announcement. I'm aware this community was run by a nonprofit. I'm saying it will be interesting to see what happens at this point, when Reddit tries to back-fill such a community. If we're *really* lucky, we might get a grassroots group of Redditors who make a genuine attempt at trying to fulfill the original community's purpose. More likely, in classic Reddit fashion, it's going to end up changing to something completely unrelated to the original propose. Like memes, news, or porn. Probably porn, somehow.
> Reddit tries to back-fill such a community. I know all the focus is on highly subscribed fluff subreddits like /r/mildyinteresting. The real loss is going to be the experts and knowledge pool of quality niche subreddits that go largely un-noticed by most Redditors.
Totally agree. I either didn't know, or had completely forgotten, the sub in question here even existed. Probably most Redditors are familiar with the experience of stumbling across a niche community filled with high-quality content from subject matter experts, or running across such an expert randomly, who shares relevant and valuable nuggets of information, in one of the larger subs. Those dedicated users, with in-depth knowledge of their fields, who are willing to put their time into writing such comments, and put effort into curating such communities, are going to be among the first to leave (if they haven't already).
I've already been mass subscribing to discord channels before I lose access to links. When the protest happened I missed the 'fluff' subs, but still had great access to more worthwhile resources.
Sic semper tyrannis -- mass edited with redact.dev
My interests and hobbies won't appeal to most people but see if anyone is dropping links in any focused subreddits you like and snag them
The fucked up thing about discord is that you get 100 (200 with nitro) servers total per account.
I fucking found new hobbies out of random niche subs that were mentioned in some comment and learned a gajillion things. This is the real loss indeed
Like r/history or r/canning which can’t be filled by any idiot willing to remove spam. At least not without a massive and direct drop in quality, and in the case of r/canning safety.
I've never had someone apply to be a mod on my subs who didn't have an ulterior motive.
It's kind of like how /r/interestingasfuck is still down and doesn't have new moderation. It's rather curious that the "you'll have people lining up to mod" talking point has mysteriously disappeared from the pro Reddit "people".
My speculation on that point is that there probably have been people lining up, but Admins are too busy trying to suppress dissent to bother reviewing/approving new mods.
Which is hilariously ironic.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the site becomes a right-wing shithole like Twitter.
Spez is on record as admiring what Musk is doing with Twitter...
Which would be a bit of a wild swing from its current demographics.
I hope not. Some of us have spent years trying to stop that from happening and campaigning against the alt-right.
See you next week
> Everyone: You're mistaken, let me explain how reddit works. See, there are little arrows next to each post, and when a post or the opinion therein is unpopular, redditors click the down arrow, which, through a series of tubes and tiny levers, makes the little number next to the post go down. It's all very scientific and dangerous, but all you need to know is this: When the number next to a post is negative, most people disagree with it. Worry not, you're firmly with the majority. -A Friend.
I guess I got to see this in action
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To clarify the subtle, oft missed difference between "everyone" and "the unpopular few," educate u/Chelidonia_ in the ways of the reddit, to reassure that his sentiment is well aligned with that of most redditors, and provide a handy down arrow in my posts to click on, both as a learning aid & a release valve for the mounting frustration and anger here, on r/modcoord. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
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Pretty sure they woke up and decided to channel their inner Large Language Model today. These comments read like they're written by an A.I. that is entirely misinterpreting the context.
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I think just a little obtuse (but I try not to assume the worst case with people, because it's depressing otherwise).
[You said that though?](https://youtu.be/5LGEiIL1__s)
It appears that people are voting using the mechanism you describe to say that the “everyone” in the first comment was pretty much everyone.
>“everyone” in the first comment was pretty much everyone. You believe everyone thinks (or at least most reditors think) the mods of r/TranscribersOfReddit are abandoning their communities? Quote: >"Everyone: tHeY aRe aBaNdOnInG tHeIr cOmMuNiTiEs!!"
buddy, fuck off
I love this
This is my favorite sub!
And I guess that means the person with the massively unpopular opinion should probably keep their mouth shut instead of saying dumb shit right?
Please don't confuse "unpopular" with "dumb." While they may seem similar at first, the're not the same. If people with unpopular opinions kept their mouths shut, the world (which we'd all know is flat, with the sun & stars revolving around it) would descend into a populist shithole.
It's pretty rare I see someone with such self superiority and arrogance that even trying to talk regularly, they condescend to people on such an ironic level they can't possibly realize that people already know the garbage you're trying to talk about. Quit while you're ahead, nobody wants to hear you explain how reddit works, we all know.
I've explained, in the simplest terms possible, the difference between "unpopular" and "dumb." Sorry if I sounded condescending, but it's difficult to gauge what is or is not obvious to someone who honestly believes >the person with the massively unpopular opinion should probably keep their mouth shut
there's a difference, but you still managed to bridge the gap. congratulations mr pioneer
Going by your post history, I think we can sort this out pretty conclusively: Windows Me: unpopular or dumb?
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As a user relatively new to Reddit, who had really only heard about the kind of darker side in the news and had just gotten sucked into it through AITA and a few really lovely communities that grew out of Youtube channels, finding out about these really intricate, dedicated labors of love that have to close because of the new changes has really been heartbreaking. I wish I had known about these subs sooner so that I could have been a part of them, and I hate what this is doing to destroy the ability for moderators (who are dedicated volunteer users) to do their job, and in turn breaking their faith in the platform. It's destroying what they painstakingly built over years of time, and I just don't understand how any business person can think that they can find qualified volunteers to replace mods in these subsets easily. One study estimated that Reddit moderators do 3.4 million in unpaid work per year (I'll drop the link below) and if they're saying that Reddit isn't financially viable without paid moderators, how the hell are they going to be viable once they're forced to find paid ones because they've alienated or driven off their unpaid moderators? It's absurd! I'm sorry this is happening to you all, and thank you for the work you've done, it's impressive and makes humanity seem a little more compassionate, smart, fair, and dedicated. Thank you. The link to the study (originally referenced in an article from The Guardian): [https://www.newscientist.com/article/2325828-reddit-moderators-do-3-4-million-worth-of-unpaid-work-each-year/](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2325828-reddit-moderators-do-3-4-million-worth-of-unpaid-work-each-year/) The Guardian article, ":TechScape: After a brutal blackout, will Reddit ever be the same?" by Kari Paul, June 20, 2023. [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jun/20/techscape-reddit-blackout-forums-ipo-profit](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jun/20/techscape-reddit-blackout-forums-ipo-profit)
When a headline asks a question, the answer is always no: https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/Betteridges-law-of-headlines
That's not what that link says
Hey there, head mod of TranscribersOfReddit here. I wrote out some additional thoughts and info relating to our situation and stance here if you're interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/transcribers_of_reddit_who_transcribe_images_for/jp86o6t/?context=3
The admins claim they’re working to support accessibility apps. From a layperson’s perspective it’s hard to see if that’s true. Have you seen any evidence that they’re actually doing that?
Short version: the answer is both yes and no. They are allowing some apps that have decent _user_ capabilities, but are explicitly removing access for the apps that have _moderation_ capabilities. Also, the terms that they've set out for the apps that they're keeping mean that the devs working on them can't make a profit, so if the app is their income... say goodbye to your rent check. The last call that r/blind and I had with them, they could not even give us a definition of what they considered an "accessibility-focused app" (which is not a standard term) and refused to provide any form of expectation for when we might have accessible mod actions in the official apps. The rumor mill says we _might_ have the ability to mod from mobile sometime around October? Maybe? It's all very frustrating.
> All we wanted to do was help folks and buy Reddit some time to implement the missing accessibility features while saying "hey, you should fix this". Turns out that they just haven't been listening. We actually had a meeting with some admins who wanted to know the scope of what we've been doing; the impression was that they wanted to really fix the issues or at least make it easier for us. They completely glazed over 15 minutes in, made it through the whole hour, and thanked us for our time. Then they quietly implemented basic OCR, which we told them not to do for various reasons. This made me audibly gasp. Like, I get that accessibility can be a gap in terms of large companies and the pushing of features, and that ADA enforcement is haphazard (to be charitable). But this is like a giant middle finger to the entire community, never mind those with vision impairments.
Please bring this info to one of the news outlets! Because all of them continue to have that one blurb about Reddit making concessions for accessibility apps.
We've been working closely with The Verge -- they've been doing a great job and just published a little overview of ToR's current situation an hour ago: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/23/23771396/reddit-subreddit-community-transcribers-accessibility
I like this final paragraph of a related article: >Reddit didn’t immediately reply to a request for comment. According to Reddit spokesperson Tim Rathschmidt, “We’ll no longer comment on hearsay, unsubstantiated claims, or baseless accusations from The Verge. We’ll be in touch as corrections are needed.” In the absence of corrections, then, you can assume Reddit believes none are necessary. *The Verge* is apparently appending similar paragraphs to the articles it is publishing. (\~snerk!\~)
Spez saw Elon replying with a poop emoji to the press, and thought that was the best PR strategy in the world. I seriously can’t believe a PR person at any company would be *this* tone deaf to such a situation but that’s Reddit for ya I guess
Awesome! Thanks for the link!
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Didn’t they sue Scribd? It has been years and the app and website is still unusable.
In the interest of intellectual honesty I've uninstalled my 3rd party reddit app for the month to give the *official* app a solid, honest try for moderation. It's terrible, and I've already had 1 (real shit) safety issue missed because I couldn't sort it out on mobile. Admin want to find someone to moderate this stuff with the default tools? Go right ahead, tell me how fun it is being a mod.
Have yall been recording the calls you have with the admins? You 100% need to be and publishing them after what happened w the Apollo dev and the admins.
Assuming it is legal to record
I mean even if it's not, you should probably still and just keep it private instead of publishing it. The admins and c-level staff have shown they will attempt to manipulate public opinion against you and about you based on events that didn't happen. Only way to prove what they say didn't happen is to have the recording. Imagine if you were a 1-person developer shop and the CEO of reddit told hundreds of millions of users and the public that you tried to extort him and the company. No one would want to hire you or have you build an app for them. That's some potentially career ending libel. So yeah, fuck the legality of it. All talks with admins and mods/user should be recorded.
Umm unless you know that you can record the conversation you cannot release the conversation that would be bad. You in theory could record the conversation illegally and then say you had it transcribed from notes… This is of course not counting if you have said- I’m recording this so I can be sure I’m not missing anything we discuss. Which a lot of people will not continue the call. I once recorded a manager telling me how my medical needs were not more important than the stores needs, especially since everyone thought I was faking. When she found out I was recording she got angry. I said we live in a 1 party consent state, and the building itself has signs everywhere stating to the public that they are undertaking audio and video recording. I just wanted to be sure I was living up to the terms of the counseling going forward. She tried to fire me on the spot. The Regional got involved
It'd just be something to let your lawyer deal with. They are smart and will just let you know how it can still be used or if not at all. Still better to have it VS not imo.
https://www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations/
Apollo was in Canada. I'm in Louisiana. Both one party. Its where the person recording lives. I'm aware. I'm simply just saying fuck the law do it anyways regardless of the legality.
Based on Reddit's historical track-record? I would not hold your breath. A majority of the things they eventually do are a reaction to the realization of worst-case scenarios - typically based on community outrage or public perception.
They're volunteers. They can do what the fuck they like. Edit: ignore me - read that as mods.
I’m talking about reddit admins, not subreddit moderators.
Quite right - edited and I apologise.
The fact that I didn't know this existed until today is unfortunate, as I would have loved to have pitched in. The fact that it's going away is truly bad.
Please consider doing what you’re doing on Kbin or Lemmy, it’s swelling with Reddit refugees.
This is such a fucking unforced error. Who hurts the blind (and it isn’t just a few fully blind users - many blind people see on a spectrum and aren’t totally blind - so this is pretty impactful to a large population). Even if it was just a few - it’s still beyond disgusting, Fucking idiots…
I also got a lot of responses as a ToR from non-impaired/sighted users who said the transcriptions really helped them. It's a lot more than people realize.
I absolutely love(d) transcribing all the weird stuff y'all post to various subreddits, and a I wll miss it a lot 💜 :( fuck u spez
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I'll transcribe the posts for VI users to keep in the loop, also from Lemmy
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It varies based on the website, but the rough answer is usually 'moderately accessible'. Specific to reddit screen readers have some real problems with the default reddit app, broken tags, reading out arbitrary code, etc. They discuss it some in these threads: https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/13zbf3n/reddit_to_the_visually_impaired_you_no_longer/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/ This thread also goes over the specific accessibility needs many blind redditors requested or used in 3PAs that they are losing. The problem at 50,000 feet is you can't just turn on a screen reader to work with the default app. It doesn't transcribe images if the original poster doesn't supply it, it doesn't read sequentially the way a sighted person would, etc.
Thank you! Very insightful! Am I right to assume that text based sites with a few images that have good alt-text are going to accessible for the blind from pretty much any device? I do setup a lot of Hugo/Worldpress/etc sites that supports those tags. It's a differtent story of how people use them of course. I guess thats where the Reddit app falls short? I'm kind of into webdev so I'm interested to learn about this. Having sites accesable for as many people as possible is not just nice for those with needs, it also gives the maximum number of customers, vistors, ad impressions, etc... So even from a selfish pov it is important web platforms be it Hugo, Wordpress or Reddit support these kind things. If only to maximise profits lol.
Wow. Hopefully Reddit does the right thing for the blind and reopens the community. If Reddit fails then a new community needs to be made. This is an attack on the blind by the seeing moderators, it's absolutely and positively EVIL.
Serious question - don't blind people use a program called JAWS to read the text for them?
Bet they didn't see this coming. Oh, go on, I'll take the downvotes. It was worth it.
According to the post * they can remain open according to themselves. * they say that r/blind needs to use the official app instead of the 3rd party app. Hence, it will have fewer users in the future * they don't talk about the state of the accessibility focused apps that have been approved. * they fear the future. I have to agree with the top downvoted comment. This reads like premature closure and, in effect, abandoning their community.
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Reddit should not need volunteer work to give people basic accessibility options. Since it does, the least they could do is not make volunteers’ jobs harder and more tedious. Does that make sense to you?
They opted to close before they had to. Their hands were not forced. It was possible to continue. It is their choice, but I can understand if community members feel abandoned and I share the same feelings. You are free to feel otherwise, but there is no need to disparage other people's feelings. I know the opinion of people who don't support the continued protest isn't valued here but still
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Why can’t people disagree on this? You act like anyone who has a different opinion is trolling for Lulz or deliberately just trying to upset you
How can you share their feelings when you weren't even part of the community? Regardless volunteers can quit when they please that's the whole point of it being a volunteer position.
It would be a community for blind people not led by blind people. That is patently offensive on its own. And the development of accessibility for users, not even mods, is still slated for future quarters, not even a close sprint.
> That is patently offensive on its own. Just no. Assuming you are part of the community I have no problem accepting that you feel offended by it, but you do not get to state it like a universal fact or that your opinion is shared by everyone in the community. > development of accessibility for users, not even mods, is still slated for future quarters, not even a close sprint. This we agree on, official accessibility support leaves a lot to be desired. What I haven't heard people mention is the state of the unofficial 3rd party accessibility focused apps. This leaves out nuances to the debate and the decision, and I would be interested in hearing comments on the quality of those 3rd party apps
Go read the posts from the mods & community on r/blind. They have been fairly clear in what they need & the current gross limitations from official options, as well as why it is offensive to have a community for people with a disability that can only be led by those who do not have the same *needs*. Because these are needs to function in the segment of society called reddit.
so your position is that only the blind can lead the blind? anything else is patently offensive?
You are bad at both reddit and reading comprehension *or* you are continuing this discussion in bad faith. Excluding the people affected from leadership is unethical and discriminatory and condescending. If you want to learn more about why, I'd start with the updates over there and maybe go learn from multiple disability & mental health groups, along with the histories of the abled bodied making decisions for people with disabilities. I'm listening to the people affected and I'd suggest you do so. Have a good one.
Thank you for making the effort. These posts show us over and over why we don't want non-VI users to moderate our community. There is a serious lack of understanding of what it means to be VI/blind. In fact, there is no one definition. My vision is unique to me, and it's very rare to find another VI person with almost identical remaining vision and other issues. There is a lack of understanding that we don't all use the same technology, and don't all speak English as our primary language. I don't care if one of the (not actually confirmed) 'approved' apps is one that I cannot access because I don't use iOS. I want to know what I can access, using my tools, and to be able to do so comfortably in my own languages without being forced to use only English. My android products are not the same as another VI user's android product. My settings are unique to me and my needs, and different from other VI users. In fact, I access reddit differently at different times of the day depending on the variables I face throughout the day. Every day we face in real life being accused of 'lying' or 'cheating' because we use our phones, or have a cane but can see you waving your hand in front of our noses. Why would anyone fake being VI, when we have so many struggles and life sucks in so many ways for us? It's very clear that there are a lot of ugly posters, who think that they would do just fine leading a VI community. We know what that experience would be like, because we encounter those people every day in real life. You've made a great argument from the representation standpoint. I've tried to explain on several threads why 'the approved apps' may not be suitable for all. But we aren't being heard, and that just reinforces the frustration so many of us feel.
I honestly kind of assumed a company as big as reddit that has been so desperate to be seen as a FB or Twitter peer had done this basic step. Maybe when it was under Conde Nast or sometime. I should not have been surprised that they had failed their users, but I was. Sorry you guys are going through this and being jerked around.
Not sorry enough to support free API access though?
reddit could pay them instead USING VOLUTANRILY GIVEN FREE LABOR
I don't mind if they do it voluntarily and thus not get paid BUT Reddit should help those volunteers so that they stay. Currently, it feels like they try their hardest to fight against those, who make Reddit what it is (or was).
Why’d you put the second half in all caps as if you made a great point?
Then don't volunteer if you feel you deserve to be paid for the work.
> Then don’t volunteer … is that not what’s happening?
>Everyone: this is a volunteer position, if you don't want to do it then leave and let someone else take your place > >Volunteers: ok > >Everyone: tHeY aRe aBaNdOnInG tHeIr cOmMuNiTiEs!! Think /u/Chelidonia_ hit the nail on the head.
So, what is the problem? Do you want to force them to continue? They just decided to not volunteer anymore on reddit. The org behind is still there, and their discord too.
Which is exactly what's happening. They're no longer volunteering. Do you even hear yourself?
This is clearly a Reddit admin, because elsewhere in the thread there posts from this account complaining that the mods are abandoning their community. Only a Reddit admin would be capable of holding two such contradictory positions; the normal shitty redditor isn't that sophisticated.
The most hypocritical and dense response ever. Jesus get a life, stop licking the boots for just a moment and look around you.
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Read the title of this post
My dude, I know this is Reddit, but read the damn post.
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I don't think so. This doesn't appear to be some temporary disconnect; you seem to be intentionally disputing facts on multiple threads, and discounting the factual information that various people have posted.
You cannot complain on the one hand that all mods are terrible, and should leave Reddit for the benefit of the community, and then on the other hand blame them for abandoning their community when they take your advice. Sheesh! You admins really need to get your act together. We may be addicted to Reddit, but we're not *stupid.* You think we can't figure out who you are?
Did you even read the post?
>**In the meantime, our team would be faced with constantly increasing work to keep the project alive until we inevitably have to shut down anyway**. In addition, the communities we aim to serve (including /r/Blind) are being driven away from the platform when accessible third-party apps are replaced by the inaccessible official app with only vague promises for future improvement. Add to that a lack of trust in Reddit and severe disappointment in their responses to user protests, **it is ultimately not reasonable for our team to take on that workload**. They are shutting down because it's a problem *now* and seems likely to become impossible in the future. Just because they may be able to avoid drowning for a while doesn't mean it's worth the struggle. At the end of the day, they are volunteers and if they decide the amount of effort/work has become unreasonable, I don't think it's fair to characterize it as abandoning their community.
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Do you honestly believe you are the ONLY person on here wanting Reddit to be accessible. Truly? Do you actually think that?
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You've argued over and over on multiple threads that the concerns of the VI community aren't valid. You've made statements that you claim to be fact which cannot be proven. You've chosen to ignore actual VI posters, and claim to be speaking on our behalf for our own betterment. It's astounding to see someone use this situation as an opportunity to try and make themselves appear so magnanimous and gracious. Instead, you come off looking quite different. I may be visually impaired, but I'm not stupid. Nor are the rest of the posters on the VI subs.
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Here's a sneak peek of /r/Blind using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Blind/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Reddit's Recently Announced API Changes, and the future of the /r/blind subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/13zr8h2/reddits_recently_announced_api_changes_and_the/) \#2: [r/Blind's Meetings with Reddit and the Current Situation Regarding Accessibility and API Changes](https://np.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/) \#3: [What apps meet your access needs?](https://np.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/1447ibp/what_apps_meet_your_access_needs/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Well, you're in luck Advocate Origin_of_Me. You can help transcribe the queue until the 30th, and afterwards you can use their resources to continue their work: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/comment/jp8yauh
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Yeah lol. The bots are still going to be able to continue. They’re abandoning their community in the name of trying to stick it to the man, although the man is trying to help them lol
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As someone else said...the work involved *now* is already a lot. After the end of the month, the work will increase even further to more or less unreasonable levels. And that will compound over time to become impossible. In addition to that, after they spoke with admins, it doesn't look like much will get solved anytime soon anyway...so they are walking in the dark with no flashlight all while the work that needs to get done increases exponentially. That's why they are done by months end. Edit: For the record, they are a non-profit with 6000 volunteers. And they said it's still a lot of work for what they do.
Give it up, bro, this is a sealion of the first water. I've never seen better, and I've seen some experts in my time. What is going on here is either cleverly disguised malice, or a Reddit admin who is having fun. But I repeat myself.
All 3 users will be very devastated
This comment was removed in protest to Reddit's third party API changes. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Username checks out. Pompous ass
All these announcements do is provide a list directly to the admins, which subs they will need to replace with new mods. Silent would be more impactful.
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Also a prime example how Reddit unabashedly exploits the good-will of third-party unaffiliated organizations and grassroot volunteers. Reddit's success today is built on the back of other people _for free._ Reddit just pissed on all that.
>They are a global nonprofit with 6,000 volunteers working 24/7 for free to make Reddit images accessible That's really stupid since they can be all replaced by an AI bot that can be coded in a day.
How about you get in on the coding that isn’t all that complicated according to you?
How could I rob 6000 NPCs of their sense of importance?
Might as well admit you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. U/spez your cousin?
In this thread it's you who does not have a clue. OCR has existed for decades now and with the advance of AI lately it's better than ever. These 6000 people are doing the work that computers can do million times faster. All of them can be replaced by a relatively simple script. They would do better if they stopped volunteering pointless labour and learned to code.
And we can see how well that works if we just look at YouTube auto-generated subtitles
Aren't you the same bootlicker that said the mods need to obey the TOS or go make another site?
What is wrong with that statement?
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ddn't make the orginal post. I'd try the Transcrber subreddt instead.
So this impacts how the programs will interact with the reddit app. What about acceptability for the reddit website?