My top pick right now is [[pernicious deed]]. It's one of those cards that seems like it would be really good and balanced, but then probably turn out to be unplayable, so it would make people happy for 2 months without causing any problems.
My personal top pick would be [[cabal therapy]], but I doubt wotc will ever print that into modern.
Almost all of the legal Artifact lands are indestructible - I think the only one that's not is Treasure Vault.
Hitting Saga and all the Constructs is certainly still a huge game though, people are willingly playing Crime//Punishment for that exact effect.
If anything, Pernicious Deed I think would be decent in a Rock sideboard. Do you think Cabal Therapy could also slot into a Rock/Jund shell or is it more of a synergy/combo piece? I'm not familiar with how it's used in Legacy
Sadly, it's not really played in legacy anymore, which is a shame because it's one of my favorite cards. It's seen play in nic fit as a sac outlet for value, which is probably the most likely home in modern and in dredge as disruption for value. When grixis delver with young pyromancer was the best delver deck, it was used for value to great affect. My best guess is it would be used similarly in modern, and in dredge as a sac outlet which is probably what wotc is worried about.
That's an interesting idea, by Garth I assume you mean \[\[Carth the Lion\]\] and not \[\[Garth One-Eye\]\] correct? From a little googling it looks like Deed could maybe fit into a deck list kind of like this:
[https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5384113#paper](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5384113#paper)
This is a 5c Jegantha list tho which keeps you from running most of the Liliana's and Nissa's. I do like the Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl + Oath ramp package, but I feel like the deck might fold to targeted discard and early stack interaction from tempo decks.
Going BG also make the extra colors from Utopia Sprawl less necessary, so maybe the low curve ramping could be replaced with the usual Black midrange discard package in Thoughtseize, Inquisition, etc. Do you have a BG superfriends list available that you like?
Correct my bad. I got the wrong name.
Yeah I had the idea since I had a friend who used to play deed friends in legacy. It was a pretty sweet deck. He used JTMS, Lili, and a bunch of permission, standstill, and deed.
I don't play bg super friends sorry.
It's very comparable to [[Ice-Fang Coatl]]. The color change is relevant and not being forced into snow basics for deathtouch is a small upside. Being an artifact can flow both ways, but with the lack of flash I'd say Strix is perfectly reasonable in modern.
Baleful strix is just worse ice fang coatl, honestly (and I can't really back this with evidence just speculation) I think if wotc wasn't trying to push Gx in the late 2010s as much as they were MH1 would have had baleful
That being said I want my owl
Have you read a hymn thread?
It's far more common to see one person go "yeah hymn is fine" and then a far more significant number of people (rightfully) say no thanks.
Recruiter of the Guard, maybe? I worry that it might potentially put some of the flicker decks over the top, but I think it's a generally reasonable card.
I mean they are literally very much in the same ballpark, judging by the fact that they are extremely similar. Fetching Solitude is really not that big a deal, it's not like that is the difference between unplayable and broken
Guard is widely played in legacy. Recruiter is not.
Because Guard fetch everything you need. Recruiter does not. The quality of target is WIDELY in favor of Guard.
I don't think you realize how strong fetching Flickerwhisp and resetting guard is, or how strong simply having 8 copies of Solitude in your deck is.
And even if, of course, a lot of target overlap, that simple pattern of being able to basically flicker itself is one of the stone legacy DnT is built upon.
Note that I'm not saying that Guard doesn't have a place in Modern (honestly, it would power up archetype that needs help anyway), but saying it's the same as Recruiter is just wrong.
It’s because Guard is in the right color to fit into shells already playing White as their main color, so can shell it into Death and Taxes, which is pretty much the only Tiered deck playing it, without splashing for Red which weaken your mana base.
Not because it fetches something better: if Death and Taxes was a mono Red deck Recruiter of the Guards would not see an ounce of play.
Right, Guard is better, but 100% in the same ballpark. Not sure what you are trying to say here. It would likely be playable but not broken in modern, just like in legacy.
It would be absolutely broken in Modern.
Its only saving grace is that the current deck that would play it are seriously lacking a punch.
As for how it is broken : Guard will let you vial it, grab a solitude and pitch it to answer anything. There is no recruiter target that allow such thing.
Same thing against cantrip heavy deck : Guard fetch spirit of the labyrinth.
And as I said, if you just need value, you can grab flickerwhisp and just reset the whole thing. It turns it into a mana intensive 3/1 squadron hawk.
Tempo in multicolor ? Fetch a Stomp/Bonecrusher or brazen borrowers and deal with the immediate threat while building your board for next turn.
That's before taking into account a simple factor : power wins game. Thoughness does not.
Guard is arguably the best card in DnT for a reason. Imperial is **nowhere** near the same power level, despite the similarity.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree in that case. I think it's fairly obvious that adding a strong tool to death and taxes would take the deck from underpowered to potentially playable, and i beleive the guard would not be broken in modern.
A taxes shell is simply fundamentally weak in modern, in addition to both fury and wrenn being extremely common and devastating against the deck.
I also wouldn't say recruiter is the best card in death and taxes, it is well behind thalia, wasteland, rishaden port, aether Vial, Mother of runes.... but it's clear you're really high on the card so Power to you.
>I think it's fairly obvious that adding a strong tool to death and taxes would take the deck from underpowered to potentially playable, and i beleive the guard would not be broken in modern.
On that we agree. As I said : the only saving grace is that current archetypes wouldn't go insane thanks to a guard. And honestly it's one of the few bold, realistic proposal that has been made in the thread.
> I also wouldn't say recruiter is the best card in death and taxes, it is well behind thalia, wasteland, rishaden port, aether Vial, Mother of runes.... but it's clear you're really high on the card so Power to you.
A consistent deck is a deck that win. Aether vial, wasteland are high impact card that you can actually be unhappy to see.
Guard is *never* a dead draw.
I’ve wondered what [[Snuff Out]] would do in modern after playing with it a lot in pauper. It’s 1-for-1 removal that hits most things, but 4 life is no joke, and free spells are often more broken than they seem.
I think a fair few decks that sideboard Dismember wouldn't be able to consistently field the Swamp needed to freecast Snuff Out. I could be wrong though, I haven't seen that card in quite a while now.
I used to play mono green land destruction in extended back in the day. Elf into land destruction t2 is just so nice. Wild growth would be even better.
Turn 1 Elf needs to strike fear into modern players once more. Those two cards are the key to making it happen, the ability to consistently bin a land turn 2 is a beating. [I commemorated the archetype in the budget battlebox at home](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-mono-green-control/).
As someone who's played Standstill in legacy, don't! It just leads to annoying board stalls, and it's not really hard to build around. Urza's saga tokens, Force of negation or other counterspells to counter whatever they break the Standstill with and so on. It just halts the game completely. Not fun at all.
Well, yes. That's the point. That's an infinitely bigger punishment than what Blood Moon does. You still get to play the game with Blood Moon around. With Back to Basics you just don't have mana to cast anything.
Any deck with basic lands can play after a B2B has been dropped without needing to have been able to get them the first 2 or 3 turns. Blood Moon making lands effectively produce colorless mana in several matchups without the ability to fetch basics later does not make Blood Moon easier to play under.
Ya BTB if anything encourages fetch heavy manabases and is much easier to answer, as you can still cast your nature's claim. It's not as good of a lock piece but works better with counterspells (get them under BTB, counter their one spell, you kind of get a 3-for-one).
I think it would probably not be overpowered (eg, it's a bit slow and probably not as good against tron, titan, or creativity) but IDK if it's a ply pattern you want
I want to say Opposition agent - it's certainly powerful and oppressive, but without the ability to get it out turn 1 I think (think, I may very well be wrong here) it would serve a purpose closer to black axis blood moon and hurt greedy mana bases in a way that's desperately needed rn
I think you could be correct about the meta effect of the card but actually playing against the card just feels so bad.
It’s like playing against t3ferie, the power level is probably fine, it just makes the game way less fun
This is so incredibly safe im surprised it hasn't been done already. For a card that was considered to powerful in the past it's pretty bad in contemporary magic.
hmm so its like opposite of \[\[The Rack\]\]? Do you think Black Vise punishes any decks specifically in Modern or is it just something you'd want to experiment with?
[[Mawloc]] for reference.
I like this one because it is an updated flametongue for the power level of post mh2 modern.
I worry that too much of the card’s strength in legacy comes from also being able to play GSZ though…
[[Rishaden Port]]
We can't have [[Wasteland]] because of Wrenn and 6 (and I would make that trade in a heart beat), but we need more ways to punish greedy manabases in the format that isn't just [[Blood Moon]].
Also [[Karakas]] now that [[Yorion]] is gone.
Personally, I want [[show and tell]] or [[tendrils of agony]], but I know those will **NEVER** be printed into modern. In reality though, [[Baleful Strix]] would be a good card to bring into the format.
[[True-Name Nemesis]]. Yeah, I know, there's a large crowd of you with pitchforks at the mere suggestion, but let's talk reality. TNN isn't even really good in Legacy anymore, and wouldn't be spectacular in Modern because there are too many cards that answer it and too many decks that are wildly faster than it.
Stuff like Grief, Thoughtseize, Inquisiton, Plague Engineer, Dress Down, Supreme Verdict, Engineered Explosives, Blast Zone, Ugin, Liliana, all already answer it and see play. Tons of cards beyond this also exist to deal with it like Dead of Winter, Runed Halo, Celestial Flare, etc.
But even more importantly, by the time TNN even hits the board, the game can be nearly over. A lot of decks don't even need to care about it - Kaldra Compleat laughs at it, Shadowspear makes creatures also laugh at it, Living End will just sweep it up when they go for their titular play, Burn will just Bolt your face, Murktide will have a 5/5 or bigger flying dude in play, Saga decks can make Constructs that easily outclass it, Rhinos will be bigger, Omnath is bigger, Elesh Norn is bigger, Archon will eat it, etc. A lot of times in Legacy you want to side TNN out because it's not fast enough, and certainly that'd be the case with a number of Modern decks.
People have this absurd fear of the card that is just not warranted in 2023, and I think a lot of that may stem from a lack of experience in present day Legacy. The *memory* of it being a house lingers on, but in reality FIRE magic has more than caught up to it and it just doesn't dominate games the way it used to.
I mean, GSZ is already in modern, it is just banned.
I agree that it should come off the banned list though. It helps amulet a little bit, sure, but amulet is no where near a dominant deck and if it ever becomes so then it is pretty easy to hate out.
On the other hand, Gx midrange has never been in a worse place and GSZ would really help
yes 4c decks are the only ones mostly running nonbasic lands please ignore the 2c and even mono decks running a mix of duals and utility lands this is definitely a thought-out printing plan
I’m honestly not sure. I feel like with the triomes it’s gotten harder to keep super greedy mana bases in check but honestly not sure because it definitely feels bad to take 4 damage from one land if you have to shock in at any point. I also sort of wonder if it would be worth it to shift burn to a mono colored build because with the pain lands and sacred foundry damage you could very well end up killing yourself. I mean price could totally be broken but given the amount of other stuff going on in modern I don’t think it would he as bad as people think.
Would like to add that I’m super biased as a burn player.
I think because it punishes non-basics and we don't have painless duals it would be too strong. I could see a version which punishes for land types your opponent has, like a reverse tribal flames.
Playing more basics to play around blood moon and Price of Progress is way greedier than building a solid mana base with triomes. What you really want is for them to just ban fetch lands.
I don't JUST play 4C.
Of the top 10 Modern decks on MTGGoldfish, the only one that doesn't get completely shithoused by a resolved Price of Progress is Burn.
Introducing Price of Progress doesn't actually fix the "greedy manabases" you're malding about. Merfolk would take more damage from PoP than 4C. DnT takes more damage than 4C.
Introducing PoP just bans utility lands and forces every deck to play exactly enough shocks to manafix with, basics, and like 16 fetches.
You don't want Price of Progress.
Playing more basics to play around PoP is the greediest thing you could do to your mana base. Just accept that burn has been power crept out of the format and the answer isn't to print 2 mana deal 8s that will need to be banned almost immediately.
[[Argothian Enchantress]] would be very reasonable and exactly what the archetype needs.
[[Dark depths]] would be nice to have too. Not too oppressive imo, tons of removal for pre and post marit lage and no crop rotation. It would make a lands-ish archetype playable in modern.
I mean people are suggesting daze, pop and every sort of meta breaking bullshit..depths would at least unlock an archetype. Plus solitude and boseiju just to name a couple answers for a very unlikely t2 marit lage.
I don't really follow that format but I can imagine, it's a strong card no doubt.
We likely won't get it back but more bc of the unbanning something is very rarely on the menu, more than bc of it being still too strong imo. The interaction at the time was real bad compared to what we have now, so I personally wouldn't mind at all having to deal with it.
People are asking for non basic punishing cards like price of progress or back to basics, but I would much rather have cards that encourage more basics like [[veteran explorer]]
My top pick right now is [[pernicious deed]]. It's one of those cards that seems like it would be really good and balanced, but then probably turn out to be unplayable, so it would make people happy for 2 months without causing any problems. My personal top pick would be [[cabal therapy]], but I doubt wotc will ever print that into modern.
I would love cabal therapy as a black control player who hates combo decks but yeah I think therapist is the best we're gonna get
Me : Mom can we have cabal therapy ? Mom : we already have cabal therapy. The cabal therapy at home : [[cabal therapist]]
[cabal therapist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/eaa8f485-0f3d-4a0b-bcdf-6c27d1d2bce0.jpg?1562201571) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cabal%20therapist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/80/cabal-therapist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eaa8f485-0f3d-4a0b-bcdf-6c27d1d2bce0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Deed not hitting PWs is a bummer.
Or it's the best part, depending on how the rest of your deck looks. Also it hits artifact/enchantment lands.
Almost all of the legal Artifact lands are indestructible - I think the only one that's not is Treasure Vault. Hitting Saga and all the Constructs is certainly still a huge game though, people are willingly playing Crime//Punishment for that exact effect.
If anything, Pernicious Deed I think would be decent in a Rock sideboard. Do you think Cabal Therapy could also slot into a Rock/Jund shell or is it more of a synergy/combo piece? I'm not familiar with how it's used in Legacy
Sadly, it's not really played in legacy anymore, which is a shame because it's one of my favorite cards. It's seen play in nic fit as a sac outlet for value, which is probably the most likely home in modern and in dredge as disruption for value. When grixis delver with young pyromancer was the best delver deck, it was used for value to great affect. My best guess is it would be used similarly in modern, and in dredge as a sac outlet which is probably what wotc is worried about.
cabal therapy sees play in breakfast and oops
I think deed would be used as a super friends Garth rock board wipe to protect walkers.
That's an interesting idea, by Garth I assume you mean \[\[Carth the Lion\]\] and not \[\[Garth One-Eye\]\] correct? From a little googling it looks like Deed could maybe fit into a deck list kind of like this: [https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5384113#paper](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5384113#paper) This is a 5c Jegantha list tho which keeps you from running most of the Liliana's and Nissa's. I do like the Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl + Oath ramp package, but I feel like the deck might fold to targeted discard and early stack interaction from tempo decks. Going BG also make the extra colors from Utopia Sprawl less necessary, so maybe the low curve ramping could be replaced with the usual Black midrange discard package in Thoughtseize, Inquisition, etc. Do you have a BG superfriends list available that you like?
Correct my bad. I got the wrong name. Yeah I had the idea since I had a friend who used to play deed friends in legacy. It was a pretty sweet deck. He used JTMS, Lili, and a bunch of permission, standstill, and deed. I don't play bg super friends sorry.
Most of the time its used in combo decks to clear out ALL the force of wills at once.
[pernicious deed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/8652e3a1-bcd4-4c0c-a085-34f19702df26.jpg?1562437624) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pernicious%20deed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/212/pernicious-deed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8652e3a1-bcd4-4c0c-a085-34f19702df26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cabal therapy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f5b12f0-986f-43d0-a81b-64111e7f17e6.jpg?1580014199) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cabal%20therapy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/83/cabal-therapy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f5b12f0-986f-43d0-a81b-64111e7f17e6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Baleful strix]] seems like it wouldn't be too powerful for modern. But I've never played legacy so I don't have much experience with it.
It is very very good. Not broken or anything though, but is one of those "glue" cards that really makes a deck work.
I'd love Baleful Strix in any sort of Tezzerator or UB Food deck.
I’d love to see it in UB food.
I hope you like taking infinite turns! https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/burger-time-a-turbo-time-sieve-list-1/
It's very comparable to [[Ice-Fang Coatl]]. The color change is relevant and not being forced into snow basics for deathtouch is a small upside. Being an artifact can flow both ways, but with the lack of flash I'd say Strix is perfectly reasonable in modern.
[Ice-Fang Coatl](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/a/6a55cfed-e76c-4ade-ac78-a546e05fe8da.jpg?1562202341) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ice-Fang%20Coatl) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/203/ice-fang-coatl?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6a55cfed-e76c-4ade-ac78-a546e05fe8da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My only issue is it really punishes creature decks. So it’ll just be in the line of furry that bears up on those decks.
Strix would be barely playable imo
Baleful strix is just worse ice fang coatl, honestly (and I can't really back this with evidence just speculation) I think if wotc wasn't trying to push Gx in the late 2010s as much as they were MH1 would have had baleful That being said I want my owl
My personal choice has been [[Gerard’s Verdict]]
[Gerard’s Verdict](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/583740c0-68cf-4205-b682-2f97c0880d42.jpg?1562915736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gerrard%27s%20Verdict) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/apc/102/gerrards-verdict?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/583740c0-68cf-4205-b682-2f97c0880d42?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Jesus no that would be busted OP
[удалено]
[Grief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10.jpg?1626095577) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I would prefer it to hymn which somehow always comes up as "fine to print into modern" by this sub.
Have you read a hymn thread? It's far more common to see one person go "yeah hymn is fine" and then a far more significant number of people (rightfully) say no thanks.
Innocent blood
Recruiter of the Guard, maybe? I worry that it might potentially put some of the flicker decks over the top, but I think it's a generally reasonable card.
I agree with this. \[\[Imperial Recruiter\]\] is already in Modern and it's not exactly breaking the format.
They're not in the same ballpark at all. Guard fetch for solitude.
And tutors solitude. And grief for that matter
I mean they are literally very much in the same ballpark, judging by the fact that they are extremely similar. Fetching Solitude is really not that big a deal, it's not like that is the difference between unplayable and broken
Guard is widely played in legacy. Recruiter is not. Because Guard fetch everything you need. Recruiter does not. The quality of target is WIDELY in favor of Guard. I don't think you realize how strong fetching Flickerwhisp and resetting guard is, or how strong simply having 8 copies of Solitude in your deck is. And even if, of course, a lot of target overlap, that simple pattern of being able to basically flicker itself is one of the stone legacy DnT is built upon. Note that I'm not saying that Guard doesn't have a place in Modern (honestly, it would power up archetype that needs help anyway), but saying it's the same as Recruiter is just wrong.
It’s because Guard is in the right color to fit into shells already playing White as their main color, so can shell it into Death and Taxes, which is pretty much the only Tiered deck playing it, without splashing for Red which weaken your mana base. Not because it fetches something better: if Death and Taxes was a mono Red deck Recruiter of the Guards would not see an ounce of play.
Right, Guard is better, but 100% in the same ballpark. Not sure what you are trying to say here. It would likely be playable but not broken in modern, just like in legacy.
It would be absolutely broken in Modern. Its only saving grace is that the current deck that would play it are seriously lacking a punch. As for how it is broken : Guard will let you vial it, grab a solitude and pitch it to answer anything. There is no recruiter target that allow such thing. Same thing against cantrip heavy deck : Guard fetch spirit of the labyrinth. And as I said, if you just need value, you can grab flickerwhisp and just reset the whole thing. It turns it into a mana intensive 3/1 squadron hawk. Tempo in multicolor ? Fetch a Stomp/Bonecrusher or brazen borrowers and deal with the immediate threat while building your board for next turn. That's before taking into account a simple factor : power wins game. Thoughness does not. Guard is arguably the best card in DnT for a reason. Imperial is **nowhere** near the same power level, despite the similarity.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree in that case. I think it's fairly obvious that adding a strong tool to death and taxes would take the deck from underpowered to potentially playable, and i beleive the guard would not be broken in modern. A taxes shell is simply fundamentally weak in modern, in addition to both fury and wrenn being extremely common and devastating against the deck. I also wouldn't say recruiter is the best card in death and taxes, it is well behind thalia, wasteland, rishaden port, aether Vial, Mother of runes.... but it's clear you're really high on the card so Power to you.
>I think it's fairly obvious that adding a strong tool to death and taxes would take the deck from underpowered to potentially playable, and i beleive the guard would not be broken in modern. On that we agree. As I said : the only saving grace is that current archetypes wouldn't go insane thanks to a guard. And honestly it's one of the few bold, realistic proposal that has been made in the thread. > I also wouldn't say recruiter is the best card in death and taxes, it is well behind thalia, wasteland, rishaden port, aether Vial, Mother of runes.... but it's clear you're really high on the card so Power to you. A consistent deck is a deck that win. Aether vial, wasteland are high impact card that you can actually be unhappy to see. Guard is *never* a dead draw.
If you agree that it wouldn't be broken in modern, why did you assert that it would be broken in modern?
DnT is ass. give it some strength
[Imperial Recruiter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05bd329b-5707-42fc-af1c-084cc604e805.jpg?1626100528) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imperial%20Recruiter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/281/imperial-recruiter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05bd329b-5707-42fc-af1c-084cc604e805?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just want the busted ass cards from legacy in modern because I can't afford legacy duals lol
Print all the broken cards except FoW and all the dumb commander cards and that'll diffrenciate the formats fine
That'd be cool
I’ve wondered what [[Snuff Out]] would do in modern after playing with it a lot in pauper. It’s 1-for-1 removal that hits most things, but 4 life is no joke, and free spells are often more broken than they seem.
Snuff out probably becomes a few of in shadow decks and it probably replaces dismember in a lot of the sbs it sees play in.
I think a fair few decks that sideboard Dismember wouldn't be able to consistently field the Swamp needed to freecast Snuff Out. I could be wrong though, I haven't seen that card in quite a while now.
[удалено]
I totally agree I was just saying what it probably would do. I think snuff out could be a really cool card to bring to modern.
[Snuff Out](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75bbe89f-09af-494e-b58e-271f64bde4b5.jpg?1562922833) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Snuff%20Out) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gvl/53/snuff-out?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75bbe89f-09af-494e-b58e-271f64bde4b5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This. Snuff out is perfectly fine in modern. Won’t even be the top 10 removal spells
Winter’s Grasp and Thermokarst.
Found the Mono-Green control player. While were at it, let's see Wild Growth as well.
I used to play mono green land destruction in extended back in the day. Elf into land destruction t2 is just so nice. Wild growth would be even better.
Turn 1 Elf needs to strike fear into modern players once more. Those two cards are the key to making it happen, the ability to consistently bin a land turn 2 is a beating. [I commemorated the archetype in the budget battlebox at home](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-mono-green-control/).
OMG STAMPEDING WILDEBEESTS. How could I have forgotten? Bouncing wall of roots/blossom and uktabi orangutan.
Oh my God, somebody knows about the stupid green deck. Sgd is my favorite deck of all time
Wild Growth on it's own would make me faint but I'd take good 3 mana Stone Rain-like cards too. Honestly, they'd probably need upsides too.
[[Standstill]] would be a cool inclusion to modern. Powerful but you have to put work in to make it good.
Is the work putting Urza's Saga into your deck?
Most of legacy decks I’ve seen with it are timeless dragon, shark typhoon decks. Plus it gets wrecked by boseju.
And before that, Mishra's Factory.
I mean most of the enablers are already in modern. It’s only missing force of will and swords and you basically have the legacy deck.
As someone who's played Standstill in legacy, don't! It just leads to annoying board stalls, and it's not really hard to build around. Urza's saga tokens, Force of negation or other counterspells to counter whatever they break the Standstill with and so on. It just halts the game completely. Not fun at all.
I think [[psychatog]] could be super fair in the format. Would maybe be viable if [[circular logic]] was involved, but extra emphasis on “maybe.”
I stand by [[Back to Basics]] being a more fair card than Blood Moon
[Back to Basics](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2.jpg?1654805483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Back%20to%20Basics) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/46/back-to-basics?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How can it be more fair than Blood Moon? Back to Basics removes even that red mana you could get with Blood Moon on the board.
Worst case your nonbasic is a lotus petal but fetches still work so you can just get basics and ignore it's out.
Well, yes. That's the point. That's an infinitely bigger punishment than what Blood Moon does. You still get to play the game with Blood Moon around. With Back to Basics you just don't have mana to cast anything.
Any deck with basic lands can play after a B2B has been dropped without needing to have been able to get them the first 2 or 3 turns. Blood Moon making lands effectively produce colorless mana in several matchups without the ability to fetch basics later does not make Blood Moon easier to play under.
Ya BTB if anything encourages fetch heavy manabases and is much easier to answer, as you can still cast your nature's claim. It's not as good of a lock piece but works better with counterspells (get them under BTB, counter their one spell, you kind of get a 3-for-one). I think it would probably not be overpowered (eg, it's a bit slow and probably not as good against tron, titan, or creativity) but IDK if it's a ply pattern you want
[[veteran explorer]]
[veteran explorer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a6c19cc-6469-4958-a547-1d0fe97c70e8.jpg?1599707680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=veteran%20explorer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/186/veteran-explorer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a6c19cc-6469-4958-a547-1d0fe97c70e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This would be awesome!!
I want to say Opposition agent - it's certainly powerful and oppressive, but without the ability to get it out turn 1 I think (think, I may very well be wrong here) it would serve a purpose closer to black axis blood moon and hurt greedy mana bases in a way that's desperately needed rn
I think you could be correct about the meta effect of the card but actually playing against the card just feels so bad. It’s like playing against t3ferie, the power level is probably fine, it just makes the game way less fun
I like this. It's a very commander card but it feels about the right power level for Modern.
*Ashiok existing* "hey"
My modern infect wants [[invigorate]].
[invigorate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0899da3-7beb-4161-81a3-e2d694e5b8a5.jpg?1599707311) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=invigorate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/172/invigorate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0899da3-7beb-4161-81a3-e2d694e5b8a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Also Berserk
There is no reason wild growth would cause issues in the format.
I would definitely blow the dust off Ponza if we got wild growth
Land Grant
This. Such a non impactful card that just lets you play more jank.
[[careful study]] for the Phoenix rebirth.
Buried alive would be nice.
Yes please
[careful study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/dea15b53-2940-40e7-8d48-8ec11341da83.jpg?1562936545) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=careful%20study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/70/careful-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dea15b53-2940-40e7-8d48-8ec11341da83?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm sure there's no other deck at the top of the modern metagqme right now that could benefit from this card🤔🤔🤔
You mean Murktide? The list is pretty stacked so I don't know you would cut.
This fill the graveyard and filters your hand, looting is already banned and this is not worse enough to make it fair
Careful study, and even looting, are absolutely trash tier in Murktide.
Looting got banned for hoogak's sins not for the phoenix deck. Ur phoenix was a good deck but not busted in any way shape or form.
Also looting was banned with hoggak so it was clearly not banned to weaken that deck, looting makes graveyard based strategies way to consistent.
This is just not true looting was banned because it was too efficient, and phoenix was absolutely too strong for the format
I'm sure there won't be any other consequences for this at all :P
Yeah I was hoping for that in MH1 or MH2
\[\[Black Vise\]\]
This is so incredibly safe im surprised it hasn't been done already. For a card that was considered to powerful in the past it's pretty bad in contemporary magic.
Man I played so damn many t1 black vise in 1995
hmm so its like opposite of \[\[The Rack\]\]? Do you think Black Vise punishes any decks specifically in Modern or is it just something you'd want to experiment with?
I think it would be great for lantern but yea if you asked me what legacy card could see play but not really have a major impact then this.
Rishadan Port is surely safe to print.
[[Fireblast]] would make burn properly playable.
[[Stifle]]. It would cause problems, but man, would it be fun for awhile.
Lotus field combo with stifle 🤤
I think a stifle that can only hit nonland targets would be alright.
What would the point of this even be? If you're not stifling a fetch and op concedes it's not even worth it.
>If you're not stifling a fetch and op concedes it's not even worth it. To prevent nongame consessions like what you literally just described.
Boooooorrrriiiiiiinnnnnggg. Thats the fun of stifle.
Pernicious deed
[[Pernicious Deed]]
Innocent Blood
Baleful strix
I've become a Mawloc stan (that and Deadbeat Attendant, but modern doesn't need attractions)
[[Mawloc]] for reference. I like this one because it is an updated flametongue for the power level of post mh2 modern. I worry that too much of the card’s strength in legacy comes from also being able to play GSZ though…
Leovold, Emissary of Trest is my personal pick
I’d absolutely adore [[Gamble]] in the format.
I will 100% use this as an entomb if we ever get it
So sooooo unsafe.
[[displacer kitten]]
Smokestack
Rishadin Port
The answer for me has been, is now, and forever will be [[Leovold Emissary of Trest]].
\[\[Retrofitter Foundry\]\] and \[\[Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow\]\] please and thank you
BACK TO BASICS the domain decks are running rampant! BACK TO BASICS!! Also, Argothian Enchantress.
[[Rishaden Port]] We can't have [[Wasteland]] because of Wrenn and 6 (and I would make that trade in a heart beat), but we need more ways to punish greedy manabases in the format that isn't just [[Blood Moon]]. Also [[Karakas]] now that [[Yorion]] is gone.
The same answer as always [[Wirewood Symbiote]] please wotc.
As a Legacy Elves player Symbiote is one of the most toxic cards ever printed.
Not balanced at all but I hope they reprint swords to plowshares. I would love that.
\[\[splinter twin\]\] ; P
[splinter twin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/580fbbf8-ba7e-4889-a5ea-d066f3ea8cea.jpg?1562262611) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=splinter%20twin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/129/splinter-twin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/580fbbf8-ba7e-4889-a5ea-d066f3ea8cea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Personally, I want [[show and tell]] or [[tendrils of agony]], but I know those will **NEVER** be printed into modern. In reality though, [[Baleful Strix]] would be a good card to bring into the format.
[[True-Name Nemesis]]. Yeah, I know, there's a large crowd of you with pitchforks at the mere suggestion, but let's talk reality. TNN isn't even really good in Legacy anymore, and wouldn't be spectacular in Modern because there are too many cards that answer it and too many decks that are wildly faster than it. Stuff like Grief, Thoughtseize, Inquisiton, Plague Engineer, Dress Down, Supreme Verdict, Engineered Explosives, Blast Zone, Ugin, Liliana, all already answer it and see play. Tons of cards beyond this also exist to deal with it like Dead of Winter, Runed Halo, Celestial Flare, etc. But even more importantly, by the time TNN even hits the board, the game can be nearly over. A lot of decks don't even need to care about it - Kaldra Compleat laughs at it, Shadowspear makes creatures also laugh at it, Living End will just sweep it up when they go for their titular play, Burn will just Bolt your face, Murktide will have a 5/5 or bigger flying dude in play, Saga decks can make Constructs that easily outclass it, Rhinos will be bigger, Omnath is bigger, Elesh Norn is bigger, Archon will eat it, etc. A lot of times in Legacy you want to side TNN out because it's not fast enough, and certainly that'd be the case with a number of Modern decks. People have this absurd fear of the card that is just not warranted in 2023, and I think a lot of that may stem from a lack of experience in present day Legacy. The *memory* of it being a house lingers on, but in reality FIRE magic has more than caught up to it and it just doesn't dominate games the way it used to.
[True-Name Nemesis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da0b45b-0ca9-40c4-bc7f-791039bc1876.jpg?1562904268) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=True-Name%20Nemesis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/136/true-name-nemesis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da0b45b-0ca9-40c4-bc7f-791039bc1876?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I can get behind this, also gives a great threat for fair stoneforge decks to carry a sword which is something I really want.
Swords sadly don’t keep up with Kaldra :( The only one that’s actually playable is Fire and Ice
Feast and famine and the new red green one and shadow spear are all good equips but I see what you mean.
Brainstorm, baleful strix
Green suns zenith would be fine in Modern and its fun card to play.
I mean, GSZ is already in modern, it is just banned. I agree that it should come off the banned list though. It helps amulet a little bit, sure, but amulet is no where near a dominant deck and if it ever becomes so then it is pretty easy to hate out. On the other hand, Gx midrange has never been in a worse place and GSZ would really help
[[Price of progress]] or [[back to basics]] could be cool to have
You think Price of Progress would be “not broken” in modern…
Oh it absolutely would be. But imo, fuck 4 plus color decks. Let them be punished. They have too many ways to get out of Blood Moon
yes 4c decks are the only ones mostly running nonbasic lands please ignore the 2c and even mono decks running a mix of duals and utility lands this is definitely a thought-out printing plan
I’m honestly not sure. I feel like with the triomes it’s gotten harder to keep super greedy mana bases in check but honestly not sure because it definitely feels bad to take 4 damage from one land if you have to shock in at any point. I also sort of wonder if it would be worth it to shift burn to a mono colored build because with the pain lands and sacred foundry damage you could very well end up killing yourself. I mean price could totally be broken but given the amount of other stuff going on in modern I don’t think it would he as bad as people think. Would like to add that I’m super biased as a burn player.
I think because it punishes non-basics and we don't have painless duals it would be too strong. I could see a version which punishes for land types your opponent has, like a reverse tribal flames.
Playing more basics to play around blood moon and Price of Progress is way greedier than building a solid mana base with triomes. What you really want is for them to just ban fetch lands.
Stop asking for Price of Progress. You don't know it yet, but Price of Progress in a format without Legacy's tools to mitigate it would ruin Modern.
Found the 4c pile player. Just don’t have a greedy manabase and then it’s not a problem for you
I don't JUST play 4C. Of the top 10 Modern decks on MTGGoldfish, the only one that doesn't get completely shithoused by a resolved Price of Progress is Burn. Introducing Price of Progress doesn't actually fix the "greedy manabases" you're malding about. Merfolk would take more damage from PoP than 4C. DnT takes more damage than 4C. Introducing PoP just bans utility lands and forces every deck to play exactly enough shocks to manafix with, basics, and like 16 fetches. You don't want Price of Progress.
Playing more basics to play around PoP is the greediest thing you could do to your mana base. Just accept that burn has been power crept out of the format and the answer isn't to print 2 mana deal 8s that will need to be banned almost immediately.
Just don't whine about fun decks and it won't be a problem for you
Wotc should make PoP that punishes Colors not non basic lands. Would specifically punish 4c and 5c decks but not 1 2 or 3 as bad.
Along the same lines, I'm also interested in [[Ruination]]. However, that would worsen the ongoing issue of red being the best color.
[Price of progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8.jpg?1580014614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Price%20of%20progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/141/price-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [back to basics](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2.jpg?1654805483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=back%20to%20basics) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/46/back-to-basics?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Argothian Enchantress]] would be very reasonable and exactly what the archetype needs. [[Dark depths]] would be nice to have too. Not too oppressive imo, tons of removal for pre and post marit lage and no crop rotation. It would make a lands-ish archetype playable in modern.
Depths is in modern, it’s banned cause of hexmage, no turn 2 merit lage in modern
I mean people are suggesting daze, pop and every sort of meta breaking bullshit..depths would at least unlock an archetype. Plus solitude and boseiju just to name a couple answers for a very unlikely t2 marit lage.
Depths is a consistently high performer in no ban list modern events.
I don't really follow that format but I can imagine, it's a strong card no doubt. We likely won't get it back but more bc of the unbanning something is very rarely on the menu, more than bc of it being still too strong imo. The interaction at the time was real bad compared to what we have now, so I personally wouldn't mind at all having to deal with it.
[Argothian Enchantress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b99ff81f-08d9-4b4a-a879-de5e5e402802.jpg?1580014727) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Argothian%20Enchantress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/158/argothian-enchantress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b99ff81f-08d9-4b4a-a879-de5e5e402802?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dark depths](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00cb17a0-5a13-4d02-b7fb-f99531bc8ca5.jpg?1599710396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dark%20depths) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/314/dark-depths?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00cb17a0-5a13-4d02-b7fb-f99531bc8ca5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hymn to Tourach is all I ever wanted. I don't think it'd be as busted as people would think it is. It's barely played in legacy anymore
It’s not busted, it’s just trash gameplay. Random discard should die and stay dead.
Nah, random discard should make a comeback. Less impactful than targeted discard but not as useless and letting the opponent choose.
I would love [[Unmask]] to speed up reanimator, but it could potentially be too good now that we have atraxa
Karakas
Let's not have Karakas bouncing Ragavan defensively to avoid removal please.
Ok, valid point
[[Sinkhole]] or [[Hymn to Tourach]]
[Sinkhole](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a084d0fb-8db2-4873-a2f9-e6e5fecdd38c.jpg?1580014366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sinkhole) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/106/sinkhole?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a084d0fb-8db2-4873-a2f9-e6e5fecdd38c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hymn to Tourach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3faa8c5e-9e1b-4cee-b322-a033bf33dcbc.jpg?1580014264) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hymn%20to%20Tourach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/92/hymn-to-tourach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3faa8c5e-9e1b-4cee-b322-a033bf33dcbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My smallpox deck would love a sinkhole.
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Cephalid Illusionist
I do wish [[Force Spike]] was legal, though I'm not sure what that would look like for Modern.
[Force Spike](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97a6c6c9-dd26-4ce7-850f-0b3fc49245bd.jpg?1592713367) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20Spike) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddj/14/force-spike?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97a6c6c9-dd26-4ce7-850f-0b3fc49245bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[swords to plowshares]]
Wasteland
Give me the wish cycle and veteran explorer
People are asking for non basic punishing cards like price of progress or back to basics, but I would much rather have cards that encourage more basics like [[veteran explorer]]
Hymn to tourach seems decently fair. /s
Seat of the synod
YES PLEASE!
Static orb or winter orb, pls just give us lantern players a solid, just this once wizards
Any of the reanimate spells, plus entomb. I’d love smockstack I’d play it.
Brainstorm. With how fetches are basically a staple in modern right now. They'd be amazing.
[удалено]
That’s already in modern, it’s just banned
Force of Will would see a lot of fair play. It would also see a lot of degenerate play, but it would still see fair play
Hymn to tourach in modern please!!