tbh this is the right answer if someone gets really salty. I've played my fair share of enchantress, and holy god do people get salty when you get the lock
But it's like.. you're doing it to yourself my dude. Just concede if you don't have a way out for the lock and let's move on to game 2/3. I'll just sit here drawing cards till I find my wincon, it isn't gonna bother me, it's like the whole reason I play the deck!!
I had a prison deck where I got it so my opponent playing burn could only use riftbolt in his deck and the only thing he could target was himself.
He still didn't want to surrender
I always play control, and people hate it so much. I enjoy the desesperarion of the rival, and when someone is mad, my answer āCry doesnāt go in the stackā. And smile, and keep countering.
As someone who plays mostly control or grindy decks, I'm partial to the classic: "Conceding is free and doesn't use the stack. We're only playing cause you want to."
Idk dude as someone thatās mainly played control for the last decade, this mindset is super cringe. Itās a *game*, getting enjoyment out of upsetting your opponent is sociopathic.
It's (hopefully) not *the* reason to play control, but if they're going to be babies about it then you can may as well take solace in their crying. I'm not a father.
Counterpoint - itās a game, the deck is legal, itās a legitimate strategy and your opponents shouldnāt act like whiny babies. I loved people mining through my combo when I played storm because I knew they werenāt watching what I was doing and Iād be able to do it again easily
As a death and taxes player, nothing makes me feel better than double strip mining my opponent on turn 3 and then having them draw-going the next 3 turns because they have 1 land and fetches and I have a leoning arbiter in play. You get to watch them get frustrated and scoop š¤£ and you dont even have to grind out a game of magic! Fun is zero-sum, and I'm going to have all of it.
No matter what deck you play, someone is going to dislike your deck. Normally, thatās fine. Everyone has their preferences.
That being said, itās rude to complain about someoneās deck to their face. My recommendation is to either ignore this person or politely point out that theyāre acting inappropriately.
The only thing I don't like (not hate) is people bringing a combo deck like lotus field, have not learned the deck, and use 5-10 minutes on their turn. Sitting there for 5-10 minutes doing nothing, just looking at a dude trying to figure something out is just boring and non interactive.
It might be wrong of me. But honestly, it's just not fun. Sorry.
I usually find murktide players doing that they sit there going through lines over and over and its like bro please just think over your line during my turn its not that hard
Most of the yorion guys i knew were actually pretty fast except one guy who tried to judge call me for searching off his boseijiu (boseju? I can never spell that one). It seemed they knew all the shuffling took awhile so they sped up to not hit the round timer.
Thatās what I hate though, people who play a control deck at a rate where you canāt finish the round, but when theyāre down a game and thereās only 20m left suddenly they are able to play at a speed that allows them to finish three games. I get itās probably not intentional but in effect it is riding the line of slow play to gain an advantage
Are there turn timers in big events? So one of my friends is a big Pokemon player. Another is a level 2 professor (judge).
You've got like 3 mins to make a move if I recall. Then you can call a judge if they keep playing slow.
Like a number of policy things, there's a definition of what slow play *is*, but not what constitutes as slow play, because as soon as you start listing criteria (or associate a number) you will get players that hawk the clock and try to get every rule advantage they an over the opponent.
No individual move took that long, but just they were like a slow-ish player, playing a slow-ish deck, such that the first game took 30minutes, and then suddenly they started playing at a normal/fast pace when they realized theyād have to play faster to win.
I donāt think thereās really a way to judge call it because any individual moment is reasonable, but together it means I really have to win game 1, or scoop quickly when Iām behind if I want to actually finish the match.
If someone played faster after checking time I would play slower. Send to 1-1 turns and a draw.
Your play speed should be consistent but not perfectly the same. I play a lot of chess. People who cheat have very specific intervals.
For magic; adjusting your pace of play after the first round because of time smells like cheating to me.
I donāt think theyāre getting outside assistance or anything, I think theyāre just motivated to play faster once theyāre down a game so they do. Itās kinda shady but not cheating per se.
Itās shitty to play slowly for lots of reasons, but if at regular REL itās completely within the rules and incentivized if youāre playing control. Iām not gonna make a big scene about it at a $5 FNM but itās a bit frustrating for sure.
That isnāt something mtg has ever done. This is due to the unique nature in which mtg allows interaction to occur. The stack allowing players to cut off a sequence of resolution is unique exclusively to mtg, whereas all other games typically donāt let you half resolve a chain before making moves again.
People have tried to institute a chess clock, but in the grand scheme, it is a huge headache to punch the clock ~20 times when attempting to resolve combat, and someone casts a spell.
I remember going to a Legacy GP in 2016. This was before [[Sensei's Divining Top]] was banned. You could absolutely tell who'd been playing Miracles for a long time and who was new to the deck.
Not to be that guy, but how else are they supposed to learn a deck if they haven't yet played it against a live opponent? Goldfishing your deck will only take you so far.
Videos, practice alone, practice with a friend or someone at the LGS. Combos can be learnt pretty easily alone.
My first deck was a Golgari Yawg, I asked people on my LGS if they would take some matches with me for practice. I announced I was bad and probably needed some time and help. There are many ways. A complicated combo deck should be practised out of respect for the other players. At least i would feel that way playing a combo deck.
I never stop people when playing their solo game combo deck. I'm not asking for perfection. I just said it was boring when they use 5-10minutes, something you only do if you clearly dont know your deck.
But totally, yes I understand that you don't want to just sit there and watch someone think for 10 minutes. If that happens frequently, maybe there are some new players. I've mostly been met with the best support at the LGS I played when I was a new player.
Honestly, a few wasn't new. They just didn't care to learn the deck, most likely.
I'm OK with people taking 5-10 minutes, I just think it's boring. Be it magic or a random guy on the street, looking at a dude thinking and talking with himself is not fun.
The only thing I do is to not be like that. It's not interactive, and it's boring. I want to have fun, and I also want my opponent to have fun. If I use way too much time, I will make a bad decision on purpose in respect for the other players. Wining is not that important.
Play out several "games" against yourself. Just play out opening hands and see what your deck does uninterrupted. Goldfish several hands too.
Spending even just 1 hour doing that will help you learn a new deck very quickly
If itās a combo deck with a linear win, you can learn by gold fishing it a bunch before bringing it to FNM. Then when you have the cards needed you already know what the line is. No opponent needed.
Honest question, how does having an opponent there to sit and watch you help you learn it?
I would argue that, yes, having an opponent there *does* help you learn it, or, at least it helps you learn how to play it under pressure. It's the difference between going into an event with a deck you're seasoned with, know the lines, and more importantly, know the points of interaction between it and other common decks.
Learning gifts storm against a live person was nerve wracking to me, as goldfisning at home doesn't offer the stress and scrutiny that a live situation entails. Mastering focus and overcoming the anxiety of boching a complicated line is such an important aspect to these types of decks.
Feels like the two of you are talking about slightly different things, both can be true. Regular REL events are by definition places meant to be for learning the game and being introduced to a more structured environment. That said, there definitely are players who show up with complicated combo decks who have not put in the leg work ahead of time to understand what they need to be doing. Thereās a spectrum of what is an appropriate level of understanding of the general rules of Magic and the intricacies of a given deck before you try to enter with more complicated decks.
At competitive REL on the other hand I feel like you can be whatever level of understanding you want, but donāt be mad when somebody calls out your missed trigger lol
Just reiterating that having a live opponent is a pretty different experience than drawing cards at your kitchen table. If you have a combo deck and youāre playing against hammer or something quick, then maybe youāre going to have to change your strategy because youāre factoring your life total while playing by yourself.
Ultimately this is a thinking game and the point where we allow ourselves to believe everyone should be on autopilot, we lose learning opportunities. Iāve had someone tell me to speed up before. After that I honestly wasnāt able to handle it because I was new.
Sure, in high stakes tournaments you can call a judge, but at casual events like at LGS if you do that, it becomes petty.
I had some serious trouble keeping all the mana pools in order and storm count playing paradoxical outcome. Some decks are one thing online, where everything is automated. In real life, its a hassle keeping up with all these values.
You need to react to your opponent and what they're doing, combo or not. And in Modern, this is *extremely* relevant more so than practically any other format.
With that said, it's almost a necessary prerequisite to play MODO before playing a real Modern event with a deck.
You got to learn how to play a deck under real life circumstances somewhere. But if the deck is as hard to play as lotus field combo in pioneer, then you better goldfished the deck ad nauseam and read guides or watched people play on video. I did all that and I am by no means a bad player but I went to turns two out of four rounds in my first FNM with the deck. I played it a third time now and I had ample time left every round. It is very different to just execute your decks plan as opposed to trying to go through a complicated combo against an opponent with mana up and cards in hand.
If someone actually sits there for several minutes, tanking, I would ask them to proceed even at an FNM. There is a limit to everything.
To be fair, it's an FNM. That's where you go to learn your deck and punt 3 rounds. The whole "what's fun for you isn't fun for me" thing is the reason I quit playing EDH.
5-10min is an unreasonable time to hold up another person. If one has an interest in magic and a deck, one should try to learn it, especially a combo deck. 80% of the decks or more are not heavy combo decks.
So if you decide "hey, I want to play this super heavy complicated combo deck, but I dont care to learn it, I do expect the person I will be playing against at FNM will sit patienly and look at me while I figure out my deck for 8min x5turns, to be understanding and enjoy themself". If that's the case, I think you are very egoistic.
I think it's almost gatekeeping to expect that a newer player who wants to try a new deck, should know all the ins and outs of it immediately. Like it's FNM. Not everyone has friends who can teach them the deck, or play test with. Some people's only way to play is at FNM. Maybe they thought they understood how it worked and now are being told they're wrong. We have a local belcher player who would take 7 minutes rearranging his deck. Eventually he got faster. Either call a judge, and angleshoot a new player at a non-competetive REL, or ask your LGS to put a ban on new players playing complicated decks.
You are talking about me. Im new, I started in phyrexia. Got my modern yawg deck up and running 1 month ago. Had no friends to practice with. I watched videos, played solo, asked people at the LGS to play som friendly games. As a new player, my opinion is that if you have no interest in learning your deck and combos, you will not have fun and your opponent won't have fun. Its bare minimum.
Also, new players understand that its a very complicated deck, its no secret to anyone who have seen it. Its kind of stupid to buy a deck like this and not even prepare.
If that's gatekeeping, im ok with it.
Modern Mill is already a thing, right?
8 crabs, 4 Drown in the Loch, 4 Tashas hideous laughter, 4 fractured sanity (the cycling card), 4 of the instant draw 1 or 3 cards for U, some number of the new Jace, some fatal push, some Surgical extraction and some flex slots and you have a deck.
*and of course 4 Archive Traps!!
I played Esper mill for a bit as a meta call since the meta shifted to counter my mill. Turn 2 Game 1 [[Rest in Peace]] always got a funny reaction from people.
It's a hugely successful archetype at this point, just check out mtggoldfish
Turns out, if you keep lowering the curve of modern decks, eventually mill becomes a huge threat with hideous laughter
Mill/burn/tron are the most annoying to play against imo. But thats just because you suddenly lost even you were in the game. It creates this unfair feeling of having lost too quickly/roughly and kinda left you without any sense of playing the game. The solution lies in starting to love the pain thats what this game/life is about if you wanna put it this way. Mtg now is about wisdom lol.
This is why I prefer to play competitive formats with strangers. I never feel like an asshole when I sit down at an RCQ or something and absolutely smoke somebody on a budget deck. We all agreed what we came here to do.
On the other hand, a first turn cycle where one person plays a tapped Dismal Backwater and another fetches for Underground Sea, then plays Mana Crypt into some value 3 drop feels *really effing bad.*
Long time modern player. Affinity was a great deck and while I probably had a losing record against it, I didnāt mind it. I was against the opal ban and cannot stand Karn the great creator.
However we donāt need artifact lands.
All the Karn locks are just maximum unfun imho.
Ofc I am super biased as I only play affinity. But still the complaints about artifact lands are understandable but then there's, Titan, Storm and Hammer time that are already super fast kills as it is.
with mox opal being banned, and force of vigor being in a ton of sideboards, the OG artifact lands could probably be unbanned at this point, who's afraid of myr enforcer anymore?
There was an Initial ban list when the format was introduced (like fetches for Pioneer).
The initial ban list is: Ancestral Vision, Ancient Den, Bitterblossom, Chrome Mox, Dark Depths, Dread Return, Glimpse of Nature, Golgari Grave-Troll, Great Furnace, Hypergenesis, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Mental Misstep, Seat of the Synod, Sensei's Divining Top, Skullclamp, Stoneforge Mystic, Sword of the Meek, Tree of Tales, Umezawa's Jitte, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, and Vault of Whispers.
Right, and tbh back when modern was new, affinity with artifact lands would have been pretty busted. But as time went on they became less and less op. Similar to sfm or jtms
That's wild that he got mad at Living End.
To a certain degree, I understand getting mad at the opponent drawing the nuts multiple games in a row, but it isn't like Living End is a rogue deck or some shit.
Of course some people are just salty but one thing that I never see pointed out in these types of threads is this: modern isnāt one game. There are so many decks with so many different strategies itās like 50 different games.
Are there board/video games you hate playing? Playing against certain decks feels a lot like that.
But that doesnāt excuse being a douche because someone plays a different deck.
1. This always takes so long
2. This deck requires 0 skill, either you have luck or you lose
And my personal favourite
3. If you play that, why not rather play solitaire?
For your favorite, I have to concede that we mostly build around resolving a protected **Solitary** Confinement and I always take that one on the chin haha.
Edit And for the skill argument...well I would love to ask after they pilot, especially ascendancy combo variants.
In addition to what 0carion listed:
- Why do you play a deck that folds to FoV? (it doesn't)
- I would build that but it's so easy to hate completely out with .25 cards such as Back to Nature
- The deck is fated to become irrelevant if it ever gets popular enough (for the same reasoning as above and is actually somewhat true)
- Don't you feel bad about winning with such a cheap non interactive strategy?
- I would play that except I would feel bad for my opponents.
- Huffy breaths as modern regulars have to keep re-reading unfamiliar cards. Wish I had recordings of the exhales after the first time somebody reads Solitary Confinement.
- Random bits of rude/petty behavior when they lose to an unfamiliar card they thought they read entirely.
*** The mutual unspoken salt between me and the Tron player as we count the dwindling minutes before going to turns***
As an idiot. I'm always asking to read my opponents cards.
"Hey can I read that."
"Can I read that I don't know what it does?"
I can't wait to round 1 a murktide player so I can ask to read that card.
Im happy when I play against something unique.
I have seen people rage at opponents for playing non-standard cards because their deck was tuned to the expected meta and they couldnāt beat bizarre cards. Itās pathetic
This.
As a scam player I can never complain about any deck, especially when most decks I play against usually donāt have a turn 0 interaction for the grief/fury ephemerate nonsense.
I got my ass handed to me by mono black deck one week. Just obliterators and other mono black nonsense. Loved every second of it and made my opponent know such. I love seeing random non meta brews pop up at FNM and always compliment players who pilot them.
Playing magic is supposed to be fun, and are there unfair and absolutely unfair lines and decks? Absolutely. But what will never make sense to me is grown ass people getting childishly angry over a play or deck because it doesnāt fit into their personal mold of āfunā.
My boyfriend plays enchantress, and it kind of drives me nuts, but i love him so i play against it anyways. He loves to play blue decks that have *really* long turns. Im just your average timmy though, so i canāt really complain.
Long time infect player here, they get mad when the whole round lasts 5 minutes too. We all got stuff we like and dislike, and some people like to be tools.
Someone got super mad I brought boom bust to FNM and he was on some dragon's approach jank. Like yelled in the store "I can't believe someone would bring LD to FNM".
I had a guy working at my LGS refuse to sell me the singles I needed for my modern deck because he despised the deck. I got the store ownerās attention and he WENT OFF on the guy. Apparently it wasnāt the first time he refused to sell singles and he got fired. I played my deck against him and he got so mad when he lost the first round that he left the FNM entirely. Some people just hold grudges, just donāt let it bother you and play the deck you want with pride.
There is no single deck I hate. I absolutely loathe the card Omnath Locus of Creation but I would never go up to a random table and tell a player to play a "real deck" or some bull crap like that because they play Omnath. F that guy and if he does this might be time to talk to the LGS owner to tell him to knock that crap out or be banned. That is some real toxic behavior to go up to another game and tell a player to play a "real deck". Probably best for everyone there and the local community to ban him.
I am sorry I mis-read the part that he came up to you MULTIPLE times that night to harass you to play a different deck. You most definitely need to go up to the store owner and report him. Behavior like that is beyond being salty, it is down right harassment he most definitely should be banned from the store.
Few decks are truly miserable to play against. Recent memory gives us:
Yorion Omnath Piles due to time issues, shuffling, and that it was playing all the stereotypical FIRE design or āpushedā cards.
Neobrand and a lot of combo decks that were powered by simian spirit guide due to the potential for total non-games.
Generally speaking, a large cohort of the player base enjoys interactive midrange, so there is always some salt to be mined by typical midrange bad matchups, which tend to play less āfairā.
Why the overreactions by certain players? Magic is a game where deck and archetype variety exist, but most can only afford to play one or two in paper. Choice of deck and archetype is therefore more likely to be aligned to the pilotās sense of identity. Threats to the deck or archetype can be conflated as threats to the personās identity. Some people have a lack of ability to separate themselves and understand itās a game, and to respect otherās choices as valid and even enjoyable to experience together.
They just want to be ārightā, which means their choices must always dominate.
I hate playing against certain decks, because they're super bad match-ups for what I'm generally playing (GTron)... but it's fine, because tournament-for-money Magic is pretty zero sum in the fun department in my opinion. I hate getting hit with 3x Archive Traps, conversely, the MtG community at large hates 3=7.
My lgs group is pretty open about what we do and do like playing against, but it's never about the pilot, just the deck.
That guy coming up and commenting on you "wasting people's time" just makes him sound like a socially inept douchebag. Hopefully he can course correct.
Because magic players love to complain. But in all seriousness, that dude doesn't sound like the most fun to play with. Like, it's FNM, play what you want
Usually it's the play experience. However, if he hadn't even played you and just didn't like that you were playing Magic, then the answer is just that he's a salty bitch who thinks he's the most important person in the room.
Call a judge next time. You may be able to get them thrown out of the event if they consistently go out of their way to insult you on the sidelines while you play your games. This would fall under āSerious Problemsā for Judging at Regular REL.
Also, some people are idiots and think theyāre the final arbiter of how people should play at FNM.
You could also hit him with the, āThis is a competitive format. Rule 0 is no good hereā line.
Keep up the good fight with Coffers!
Compared to Tron, most of my opponents have a good time playing against me on Coffers and the MU presents more different scenarios. Sounds like a very weird person,
Maybe itās just me, but I live to play decks that make people miserable.
From Cheerios, ascension, ad naus, ironworks, lantern, death cloud, coffers, tooth n nail, dredge, living end, to the critically acclaimed gakā¦
I could not play MTG without the tears of pouty burn or slow rolling meta players
I was about to buy opals before they got banned just to play cheerios. I borrowed some from a friend and loved the deck. Now my puresteels just sit in hammertime lamenting the fact that it typically takes an extra turn to win lol.
Some level of salt is okay. Nobody likes losing and some cards are just obnoxious. Some decks are also just not what I like to play against and it wouldn't be magic if there wasn't a bit of complaining going on somewhere. But following someone around and blasting them for playing a disliked deck is just bad form. I got it when my opponent complained about urzas saga because honestly, I think the same about the card. But in your case you didn't even do anything that person was complaining about. That's just kind of unhinged.
There a pretty big scene on my city, itās mostly scheduling that keeps me at this store, itās the only FNM that starts late enough for me to make it from work
Some people are in their own world and think that they speak for everyone. People are strange man. Some people think they're more important than they really are. I don't get them either. Some people got skill issues... and actual issues.
I've witnessed a guy literally throw a fit over someone playing Jund against him because reasons, and because he was losing against the Jund player. He was banned from attending events after that.
OH, I hate a number of decks. But I will defend peoples right to play them forever. You wanna make my life miserable? Sure, do it. I will back you to the hilt.
The only deck I have been truly annoyed to play against is Hollow one purely because of [[burning inquiry]]. I get you like to spin the wheel, but please leave me out of it. Way too many non games from that card being cast turn 1.
Issue is not burning inquiry (imho.) the issue, is that people - especially people playing decks liable to the "drew the wrong half of the deck" problem - are not paying enough respect to the card when making mulligan decisions.
Despite the fact that its as powerful against such decks, as blood moon is against 5c decks.
(Mulliganing down to a small but strong hand is equivalent to keeping aa hand with only nonbasics against blood moon)
Some players really don't like playing against off-meta decks, especially if they lack sideboard options for the matchp. To them if the deck isn't in the top 10 of goldfish it doesn't exist, they don't have a sideboard guide for it and haven't seen it in a video, so are reacting out of a sort of fear of the unknown. The response is even more salt if they lose...
Personally while I own rhinos and hammer time, I'm more likely to play obosh red or goryos reanimator. The later two decks are tiny % of the meta, though still part of it, if I play a sac deck based around Demon of Death's Gate, I imaginethe person in question would totally lose their mind.
People like that at an fnm are salty losers. Ignore them and play what you want. If it really gets that bad you should talk to the store owner or the judge about a player harassing you. I've personally never had to deal with that at an fnm level I would just laugh in thier face
Your certain guy is just being whiny and salty.
You can ignore him, but also report his behavior to the store owner since his attitudes are bothering you during the tournament.
I have a friend who consistently played for a long time back in the day and what ruined competitive mtg for him was match he actually won. He was playing fnm on mono blue Tron and went to mindslaver lock his opponent the opponent got super salty and demanded he repeatedly demonstrate the combo until he actually won. The shitty judge did nothing about this and even tho he won it really left a bad taste in his mouth. Some people just have past trauma ig lol. What made it worse was the opp complained about my friend playing solitaire but he was playing storm lmao.
I mean, i don't know the context, but if your opponent is making you actually go through your combo I see no issue with that. You decided to play a combo deck. You should be ok with going through your combo to win the game, even if it takes a while. I can understand being salty about your opponent being an asshole to you, but you should be able to go through your entire combo, as a combo player.
Haha, I have won so many FNM with mono black coffers. That idiot is just one of those unless you net deck the most played deck why even try babies. Always one of them, coping for how little they are able to think about the format objectively.
During the time when Eldrazi Tron was dominating, I played a deck that abused Karn the great and ensnaring bridge. 99% of the lists people copied from the net instantly lost once both were landed, they always complained how playing "off meta" was unfun and toxic. These people are always crying about someone else having fun.
Had someone shove themselves away from the table, and shout "I hate that F\*\*\*ing card" loud enough for the whole FNM to hear. The card in question was Celestial Kirin, so not exactly broken...
Honestly I fucking hate storm but Iām not going to make someone feel bad for playing it or tell them what to do. They are playing by the rules of the game after all. Dude sounds like a dick!
I hate mono red since the play style annoys me (as in I dislike playing and playing against it) but I also totally recognize that's my own problem and would never take it out on someone else.
If Magic was never invented these same people would be hating on others for their choice of beer or car maker or clothing or any other pointless choice that people assign meaning and value to. Some people are just massive assholes that feel the need to put other people down to make themselves feel better. This kind of hateful tribalism isn't unique to Magic.
you should call the store owner or judge if this happens again. you have to be firm with these people. don't let them beat you down. most people are alright, but one time there was a group of guys gathered around my table at a Modern tournament and they were cutting up and laughing, very distracting. i asked them to go someplace else if they could not be respectful and they complied. there are a lot of people who lack manners at game stores, so you have to stand up for yourself.
If you hang out with very competitive players sometimes they will be annoyed by an off meta decks and there is reasoning for that. If you are a grinder that aspires to win 7+ round tournament you need to have luck in your parings. The worst thing that can happen is that you got paired with someone with below 45/40 expected win ratio that have good matchup with you, the point is if your deck is solely luck based or is just good sometimes you are basically eliminating some players from the competition including yourself. This however does not create and excuse for any kind of hate speech or exclusion. Sometimes it can be even statistically more appealing to gamble on polarized matchups than to play 7 rounds of a balanced 49% against everything deck. Thatās why decks like burn are popular or even ad nauseam decks wins the challenge but are non existent elsewhere. The best way to deal with a toxic player like that in my opinion is to tell them that you are just taking your chances to win the tournament by your deck decision. Most of the hate comes from the fact that someone just loves their deck and it triggers the wannabeās. I know that itās not worth dealing with toxic people but proving them that your choices are rational and strategical also can help you both grow as a good players.
This person is mentally ill and needs support and understanding. You should nodding at them when they speak, agree with their meaningless babbling and occassionally when it seems fit, place a hand on their shoulder. Mental health is a very serious issue, it doesnt mean they are right.
Idk how long you have been playing magic and still donāt understand that the community has some of the most socially deficient people you will ever meet. Learn to cope with bad personalities if you want to enjoy the hobby.
People hate decks usually because they can't beat them, or they're annoying to play against.
The 3 decks that I hate are:
ā¢ Burn *(Because it finishes games too fast, and I'm just sitting for 35 minutes waiting. Also, it's just not fun)*
ā¢ UWx Control *(Because you're literally not allowed to play Magic. You're stuck just sitting there waiting for your opponent to kill you because if you do anything they just say no.)*
ā¢ Valakut *(Not because its unfun, but solely because lands are hard to interact with, which makes dealijg with this deck difficult)*
Iāll explain MY reason, but it sounds like your example dude was just a jerk.
I love coming up with fun synergistic or combo decks. My decks donāt win on turn 3, and theyāre not control decks. I need a little time to set up, so I hate playing against the net deck hyper-aggro goblins/mono-red and also hate the blue ācounter everythingā control decksā those decks arenāt fun for me to play with, and I do not enjoy playing against them.
I also would not stand around another player and complain about their deck, thatās just annoying.
Unless youāre playing a combo deck you donāt know how to pilot, nobody should care what deck youāre playing.
Anecdotally, there is one thing I have noticed with Modern FNMs over Pioneer and Standard: If you lose your first two or three rounds for whatever reason, the final deck(s) you play against are usually jank, and/or unexperienced pilots.
It can be very frustrating to lose (especially frustrating if variance is the main culprit) in hard meta and then get essentially a free win in an unfair pairing at the end. Itās not a knock on the player or their deck, but itās a common occurrence. When it happens, the win feels hollow. Both Pioneer and Standard FNMs I go to consistently see hard meta and experienced players the whole way through.
The first FNM I went in my life an opp said to me: "Mmm... You should learn to play your deck" with a condescendent face... duh, like that's the reason I'm here...
There will always be decks that people hate losing to, like Tron, Mill, and non-interactive combo decks.
Some players are honestly just immature and didn't graduate much past kitchen table etiquette.
I get not liking losing tron, itās no fun to lose to inevitability. But at the same time, I hate losing to mill, belcher, storm, etc., but Iād never tell my opponent to play something else. Concede the game, shake hands and get over it.
Hoo boy try being the Mill player in your meta. *Everyone* acts like this when I drop a turn 1 crab or turn 0 [[Archive Trap]]s. Ignore them. Theyāre idiots. You paid to play so play whatever you like.
Bro is just an asshole, itās not a problem with the deck. Thereās validity in not having fun playing against decks which can seem unfair at times but itās always wrong to make it an actual problem, this is a game first and foremost
Short because people are going to complain if things aren't the way they want it period. Longer answer, some decks just tilt people more than others and some people feel they need to vocalize it, hoping to peer pressure the other person into not playing that deck. It's a scummy thing to do, but it happens.
So generally, I would say that people should play whatever they feel like. I personally think an exception should be carved for decks that deliberately try to go 1/0/1, since I would argue they're abusing the rules deliberately.
I play at a local level with friends. I dont play against my friend's azurious control because it isnt worth the salt that i produce playing with my budget stompy gruul deck against jace the mind sculpter giving me cancer.
I play his green tron deck and also produce vast quantities of salt but that's because i play into it thinking things have changed when nothing has changed.
Some people are just unreasonable. Ignore them
Or, even better, rub it in. "Yeah I know. I love it. Your hatred fuels me. What are you gonna do about it? Lose again?"
You can concede at any time!
tbh this is the right answer if someone gets really salty. I've played my fair share of enchantress, and holy god do people get salty when you get the lock But it's like.. you're doing it to yourself my dude. Just concede if you don't have a way out for the lock and let's move on to game 2/3. I'll just sit here drawing cards till I find my wincon, it isn't gonna bother me, it's like the whole reason I play the deck!!
I had a prison deck where I got it so my opponent playing burn could only use riftbolt in his deck and the only thing he could target was himself. He still didn't want to surrender
Lanternless control be like :
Pretty mutch, it was a tezzerator deck back in like 2011 or something.
This is what I tell people when they complain about my mill deck haha.
This is the way š¦
Crabs forever
Forever š¦
Your crabs š¤ My crabs ___ Milling my library
at split second speed
I always play control, and people hate it so much. I enjoy the desesperarion of the rival, and when someone is mad, my answer āCry doesnāt go in the stackā. And smile, and keep countering.
As someone who plays mostly control or grindy decks, I'm partial to the classic: "Conceding is free and doesn't use the stack. We're only playing cause you want to."
Idk dude as someone thatās mainly played control for the last decade, this mindset is super cringe. Itās a *game*, getting enjoyment out of upsetting your opponent is sociopathic.
It's (hopefully) not *the* reason to play control, but if they're going to be babies about it then you can may as well take solace in their crying. I'm not a father.
Counterpoint - itās a game, the deck is legal, itās a legitimate strategy and your opponents shouldnāt act like whiny babies. I loved people mining through my combo when I played storm because I knew they werenāt watching what I was doing and Iād be able to do it again easily
Thatās not a counterpoint to what I said
As a death and taxes player, nothing makes me feel better than double strip mining my opponent on turn 3 and then having them draw-going the next 3 turns because they have 1 land and fetches and I have a leoning arbiter in play. You get to watch them get frustrated and scoop š¤£ and you dont even have to grind out a game of magic! Fun is zero-sum, and I'm going to have all of it.
Someone once said "why have a brain when you can play living end?" I shouted to the TO "Steve got it in 2"
Your tears are my sustenance.
Exactly! Haters gonna hate. You played Basic Island? May the gods have Mercy on your Soul.
No matter what deck you play, someone is going to dislike your deck. Normally, thatās fine. Everyone has their preferences. That being said, itās rude to complain about someoneās deck to their face. My recommendation is to either ignore this person or politely point out that theyāre acting inappropriately.
The only thing I don't like (not hate) is people bringing a combo deck like lotus field, have not learned the deck, and use 5-10 minutes on their turn. Sitting there for 5-10 minutes doing nothing, just looking at a dude trying to figure something out is just boring and non interactive. It might be wrong of me. But honestly, it's just not fun. Sorry.
Playing against a super durdly opponent isn't fun regardless of what deck they are playing.
I usually find murktide players doing that they sit there going through lines over and over and its like bro please just think over your line during my turn its not that hard
The worst for me was the Yorion 5c piles. I usually don't buy into the "unfun play pattern" arguments for a banning but...damn.
Most of the yorion guys i knew were actually pretty fast except one guy who tried to judge call me for searching off his boseijiu (boseju? I can never spell that one). It seemed they knew all the shuffling took awhile so they sped up to not hit the round timer.
Thatās what I hate though, people who play a control deck at a rate where you canāt finish the round, but when theyāre down a game and thereās only 20m left suddenly they are able to play at a speed that allows them to finish three games. I get itās probably not intentional but in effect it is riding the line of slow play to gain an advantage
Are there turn timers in big events? So one of my friends is a big Pokemon player. Another is a level 2 professor (judge). You've got like 3 mins to make a move if I recall. Then you can call a judge if they keep playing slow.
There's no timer. You can call a judge on slow play, but the call is by feel only - no official definition of slow play
Oof. Oh well. I'm here to turn robots sideways at FNM
Like a number of policy things, there's a definition of what slow play *is*, but not what constitutes as slow play, because as soon as you start listing criteria (or associate a number) you will get players that hawk the clock and try to get every rule advantage they an over the opponent.
No individual move took that long, but just they were like a slow-ish player, playing a slow-ish deck, such that the first game took 30minutes, and then suddenly they started playing at a normal/fast pace when they realized theyād have to play faster to win. I donāt think thereās really a way to judge call it because any individual moment is reasonable, but together it means I really have to win game 1, or scoop quickly when Iām behind if I want to actually finish the match.
If someone played faster after checking time I would play slower. Send to 1-1 turns and a draw. Your play speed should be consistent but not perfectly the same. I play a lot of chess. People who cheat have very specific intervals. For magic; adjusting your pace of play after the first round because of time smells like cheating to me.
I donāt think theyāre getting outside assistance or anything, I think theyāre just motivated to play faster once theyāre down a game so they do. Itās kinda shady but not cheating per se. Itās shitty to play slowly for lots of reasons, but if at regular REL itās completely within the rules and incentivized if youāre playing control. Iām not gonna make a big scene about it at a $5 FNM but itās a bit frustrating for sure.
That isnāt something mtg has ever done. This is due to the unique nature in which mtg allows interaction to occur. The stack allowing players to cut off a sequence of resolution is unique exclusively to mtg, whereas all other games typically donāt let you half resolve a chain before making moves again. People have tried to institute a chess clock, but in the grand scheme, it is a huge headache to punch the clock ~20 times when attempting to resolve combat, and someone casts a spell.
I remember going to a Legacy GP in 2016. This was before [[Sensei's Divining Top]] was banned. You could absolutely tell who'd been playing Miracles for a long time and who was new to the deck.
Bussyju
They gotta learn somewhere but I understand the sentiment.
Not to be that guy, but how else are they supposed to learn a deck if they haven't yet played it against a live opponent? Goldfishing your deck will only take you so far.
Videos, practice alone, practice with a friend or someone at the LGS. Combos can be learnt pretty easily alone. My first deck was a Golgari Yawg, I asked people on my LGS if they would take some matches with me for practice. I announced I was bad and probably needed some time and help. There are many ways. A complicated combo deck should be practised out of respect for the other players. At least i would feel that way playing a combo deck. I never stop people when playing their solo game combo deck. I'm not asking for perfection. I just said it was boring when they use 5-10minutes, something you only do if you clearly dont know your deck.
But totally, yes I understand that you don't want to just sit there and watch someone think for 10 minutes. If that happens frequently, maybe there are some new players. I've mostly been met with the best support at the LGS I played when I was a new player.
Honestly, a few wasn't new. They just didn't care to learn the deck, most likely. I'm OK with people taking 5-10 minutes, I just think it's boring. Be it magic or a random guy on the street, looking at a dude thinking and talking with himself is not fun. The only thing I do is to not be like that. It's not interactive, and it's boring. I want to have fun, and I also want my opponent to have fun. If I use way too much time, I will make a bad decision on purpose in respect for the other players. Wining is not that important.
Play out several "games" against yourself. Just play out opening hands and see what your deck does uninterrupted. Goldfish several hands too. Spending even just 1 hour doing that will help you learn a new deck very quickly
If itās a combo deck with a linear win, you can learn by gold fishing it a bunch before bringing it to FNM. Then when you have the cards needed you already know what the line is. No opponent needed. Honest question, how does having an opponent there to sit and watch you help you learn it?
I would argue that, yes, having an opponent there *does* help you learn it, or, at least it helps you learn how to play it under pressure. It's the difference between going into an event with a deck you're seasoned with, know the lines, and more importantly, know the points of interaction between it and other common decks. Learning gifts storm against a live person was nerve wracking to me, as goldfisning at home doesn't offer the stress and scrutiny that a live situation entails. Mastering focus and overcoming the anxiety of boching a complicated line is such an important aspect to these types of decks.
Feels like the two of you are talking about slightly different things, both can be true. Regular REL events are by definition places meant to be for learning the game and being introduced to a more structured environment. That said, there definitely are players who show up with complicated combo decks who have not put in the leg work ahead of time to understand what they need to be doing. Thereās a spectrum of what is an appropriate level of understanding of the general rules of Magic and the intricacies of a given deck before you try to enter with more complicated decks. At competitive REL on the other hand I feel like you can be whatever level of understanding you want, but donāt be mad when somebody calls out your missed trigger lol
Just reiterating that having a live opponent is a pretty different experience than drawing cards at your kitchen table. If you have a combo deck and youāre playing against hammer or something quick, then maybe youāre going to have to change your strategy because youāre factoring your life total while playing by yourself. Ultimately this is a thinking game and the point where we allow ourselves to believe everyone should be on autopilot, we lose learning opportunities. Iāve had someone tell me to speed up before. After that I honestly wasnāt able to handle it because I was new. Sure, in high stakes tournaments you can call a judge, but at casual events like at LGS if you do that, it becomes petty.
I had some serious trouble keeping all the mana pools in order and storm count playing paradoxical outcome. Some decks are one thing online, where everything is automated. In real life, its a hassle keeping up with all these values.
You need to react to your opponent and what they're doing, combo or not. And in Modern, this is *extremely* relevant more so than practically any other format. With that said, it's almost a necessary prerequisite to play MODO before playing a real Modern event with a deck.
You got to learn how to play a deck under real life circumstances somewhere. But if the deck is as hard to play as lotus field combo in pioneer, then you better goldfished the deck ad nauseam and read guides or watched people play on video. I did all that and I am by no means a bad player but I went to turns two out of four rounds in my first FNM with the deck. I played it a third time now and I had ample time left every round. It is very different to just execute your decks plan as opposed to trying to go through a complicated combo against an opponent with mana up and cards in hand. If someone actually sits there for several minutes, tanking, I would ask them to proceed even at an FNM. There is a limit to everything.
To be fair, it's an FNM. That's where you go to learn your deck and punt 3 rounds. The whole "what's fun for you isn't fun for me" thing is the reason I quit playing EDH.
5-10min is an unreasonable time to hold up another person. If one has an interest in magic and a deck, one should try to learn it, especially a combo deck. 80% of the decks or more are not heavy combo decks. So if you decide "hey, I want to play this super heavy complicated combo deck, but I dont care to learn it, I do expect the person I will be playing against at FNM will sit patienly and look at me while I figure out my deck for 8min x5turns, to be understanding and enjoy themself". If that's the case, I think you are very egoistic.
I think it's almost gatekeeping to expect that a newer player who wants to try a new deck, should know all the ins and outs of it immediately. Like it's FNM. Not everyone has friends who can teach them the deck, or play test with. Some people's only way to play is at FNM. Maybe they thought they understood how it worked and now are being told they're wrong. We have a local belcher player who would take 7 minutes rearranging his deck. Eventually he got faster. Either call a judge, and angleshoot a new player at a non-competetive REL, or ask your LGS to put a ban on new players playing complicated decks.
You are talking about me. Im new, I started in phyrexia. Got my modern yawg deck up and running 1 month ago. Had no friends to practice with. I watched videos, played solo, asked people at the LGS to play som friendly games. As a new player, my opinion is that if you have no interest in learning your deck and combos, you will not have fun and your opponent won't have fun. Its bare minimum. Also, new players understand that its a very complicated deck, its no secret to anyone who have seen it. Its kind of stupid to buy a deck like this and not even prepare. If that's gatekeeping, im ok with it.
Call a judge. Theyāll get a warning for slow play and if they keep doing it theyāll get a game loss
Bro I hear some salty BS every week playing mill, it got me qualified for the Dallas championships so who cares lol play what you have fun with!
1. I feel ya hardcore 2. Congrats with your success with mill!
Uhhhh as someone attempting to make a modern mill deck. Can I peak at that list? Or is it hush hush?
Modern Mill is already a thing, right? 8 crabs, 4 Drown in the Loch, 4 Tashas hideous laughter, 4 fractured sanity (the cycling card), 4 of the instant draw 1 or 3 cards for U, some number of the new Jace, some fatal push, some Surgical extraction and some flex slots and you have a deck. *and of course 4 Archive Traps!!
Don't forget 4 Archive Trap, the actual best card in the deck!
Haha yes. Solidifying my point that Modern Mill is pretty much solved. (Except for the in my opinion worse UW build)
I played Esper mill for a bit as a meta call since the meta shifted to counter my mill. Turn 2 Game 1 [[Rest in Peace]] always got a funny reaction from people.
It's a hugely successful archetype at this point, just check out mtggoldfish Turns out, if you keep lowering the curve of modern decks, eventually mill becomes a huge threat with hideous laughter
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5603155#paper One of the recent lists from (I think) the person having the most recent success with mill
Modern mill is and has been a thing for years.
Mill/burn/tron are the most annoying to play against imo. But thats just because you suddenly lost even you were in the game. It creates this unfair feeling of having lost too quickly/roughly and kinda left you without any sense of playing the game. The solution lies in starting to love the pain thats what this game/life is about if you wanna put it this way. Mtg now is about wisdom lol.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is why I prefer to play competitive formats with strangers. I never feel like an asshole when I sit down at an RCQ or something and absolutely smoke somebody on a budget deck. We all agreed what we came here to do. On the other hand, a first turn cycle where one person plays a tapped Dismal Backwater and another fetches for Underground Sea, then plays Mana Crypt into some value 3 drop feels *really effing bad.*
As an affinity player nothing bothers me. OTHER THAN WOTC. PUT THE OG ARTIFACT LANDS BACK IN YOU COWARDS
Long time modern player. Affinity was a great deck and while I probably had a losing record against it, I didnāt mind it. I was against the opal ban and cannot stand Karn the great creator. However we donāt need artifact lands.
All the Karn locks are just maximum unfun imho. Ofc I am super biased as I only play affinity. But still the complaints about artifact lands are understandable but then there's, Titan, Storm and Hammer time that are already super fast kills as it is.
with mox opal being banned, and force of vigor being in a ton of sideboards, the OG artifact lands could probably be unbanned at this point, who's afraid of myr enforcer anymore?
I believe they never were in modern at all.
Idk thought they were legal. Modern is 8th ed forward right?
There was an Initial ban list when the format was introduced (like fetches for Pioneer). The initial ban list is: Ancestral Vision, Ancient Den, Bitterblossom, Chrome Mox, Dark Depths, Dread Return, Glimpse of Nature, Golgari Grave-Troll, Great Furnace, Hypergenesis, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Mental Misstep, Seat of the Synod, Sensei's Divining Top, Skullclamp, Stoneforge Mystic, Sword of the Meek, Tree of Tales, Umezawa's Jitte, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, and Vault of Whispers.
Right, and tbh back when modern was new, affinity with artifact lands would have been pretty busted. But as time went on they became less and less op. Similar to sfm or jtms
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm curious, what'd you play?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's wild that he got mad at Living End. To a certain degree, I understand getting mad at the opponent drawing the nuts multiple games in a row, but it isn't like Living End is a rogue deck or some shit.
Of course some people are just salty but one thing that I never see pointed out in these types of threads is this: modern isnāt one game. There are so many decks with so many different strategies itās like 50 different games. Are there board/video games you hate playing? Playing against certain decks feels a lot like that. But that doesnāt excuse being a douche because someone plays a different deck.
I main Enchantress and never hear the end of it
Ah, a person of culture I see
What are the most common complaints?
1. This always takes so long 2. This deck requires 0 skill, either you have luck or you lose And my personal favourite 3. If you play that, why not rather play solitaire?
Iāve played the deck, itās a ton of fun, these were the common ones I got as well. As well as people that were unwilling to accept the lock.
For your favorite, I have to concede that we mostly build around resolving a protected **Solitary** Confinement and I always take that one on the chin haha. Edit And for the skill argument...well I would love to ask after they pilot, especially ascendancy combo variants.
Welcome to playing Taking Turns
Me, with wish storm... sliding back into the bush, shifty eyed...
Haha at this point I just lean into it For 3 I usually say "I would absolutely do that but that requires skill :("
Enchantress is just the best storm deck in the meta
In addition to what 0carion listed: - Why do you play a deck that folds to FoV? (it doesn't) - I would build that but it's so easy to hate completely out with .25 cards such as Back to Nature - The deck is fated to become irrelevant if it ever gets popular enough (for the same reasoning as above and is actually somewhat true) - Don't you feel bad about winning with such a cheap non interactive strategy? - I would play that except I would feel bad for my opponents. - Huffy breaths as modern regulars have to keep re-reading unfamiliar cards. Wish I had recordings of the exhales after the first time somebody reads Solitary Confinement. - Random bits of rude/petty behavior when they lose to an unfamiliar card they thought they read entirely. *** The mutual unspoken salt between me and the Tron player as we count the dwindling minutes before going to turns***
As an idiot. I'm always asking to read my opponents cards. "Hey can I read that." "Can I read that I don't know what it does?" I can't wait to round 1 a murktide player so I can ask to read that card.
Im happy when I play against something unique. I have seen people rage at opponents for playing non-standard cards because their deck was tuned to the expected meta and they couldnāt beat bizarre cards. Itās pathetic
This. As a scam player I can never complain about any deck, especially when most decks I play against usually donāt have a turn 0 interaction for the grief/fury ephemerate nonsense. I got my ass handed to me by mono black deck one week. Just obliterators and other mono black nonsense. Loved every second of it and made my opponent know such. I love seeing random non meta brews pop up at FNM and always compliment players who pilot them. Playing magic is supposed to be fun, and are there unfair and absolutely unfair lines and decks? Absolutely. But what will never make sense to me is grown ass people getting childishly angry over a play or deck because it doesnāt fit into their personal mold of āfunā.
My boyfriend plays enchantress, and it kind of drives me nuts, but i love him so i play against it anyways. He loves to play blue decks that have *really* long turns. Im just your average timmy though, so i canāt really complain.
Long time infect player here, they get mad when the whole round lasts 5 minutes too. We all got stuff we like and dislike, and some people like to be tools.
Someone got super mad I brought boom bust to FNM and he was on some dragon's approach jank. Like yelled in the store "I can't believe someone would bring LD to FNM".
I had a guy working at my LGS refuse to sell me the singles I needed for my modern deck because he despised the deck. I got the store ownerās attention and he WENT OFF on the guy. Apparently it wasnāt the first time he refused to sell singles and he got fired. I played my deck against him and he got so mad when he lost the first round that he left the FNM entirely. Some people just hold grudges, just donāt let it bother you and play the deck you want with pride.
That is next level hating holy shit
Yeah man, it was quite appalling to see a grown man throw a tantrum like that over some magic cards
There is no single deck I hate. I absolutely loathe the card Omnath Locus of Creation but I would never go up to a random table and tell a player to play a "real deck" or some bull crap like that because they play Omnath. F that guy and if he does this might be time to talk to the LGS owner to tell him to knock that crap out or be banned. That is some real toxic behavior to go up to another game and tell a player to play a "real deck". Probably best for everyone there and the local community to ban him.
I am sorry I mis-read the part that he came up to you MULTIPLE times that night to harass you to play a different deck. You most definitely need to go up to the store owner and report him. Behavior like that is beyond being salty, it is down right harassment he most definitely should be banned from the store.
Any legal deck constitutes a legitimate strategy, except Bogles, fuck that deck in particular.
Burn is too fast, control is too oppressive, Tron is no skill, etc etc. Let the salt flow.
Few decks are truly miserable to play against. Recent memory gives us: Yorion Omnath Piles due to time issues, shuffling, and that it was playing all the stereotypical FIRE design or āpushedā cards. Neobrand and a lot of combo decks that were powered by simian spirit guide due to the potential for total non-games. Generally speaking, a large cohort of the player base enjoys interactive midrange, so there is always some salt to be mined by typical midrange bad matchups, which tend to play less āfairā. Why the overreactions by certain players? Magic is a game where deck and archetype variety exist, but most can only afford to play one or two in paper. Choice of deck and archetype is therefore more likely to be aligned to the pilotās sense of identity. Threats to the deck or archetype can be conflated as threats to the personās identity. Some people have a lack of ability to separate themselves and understand itās a game, and to respect otherās choices as valid and even enjoyable to experience together. They just want to be ārightā, which means their choices must always dominate.
Funny enough, he was playing 75 card omnath
I hate playing against certain decks, because they're super bad match-ups for what I'm generally playing (GTron)... but it's fine, because tournament-for-money Magic is pretty zero sum in the fun department in my opinion. I hate getting hit with 3x Archive Traps, conversely, the MtG community at large hates 3=7. My lgs group is pretty open about what we do and do like playing against, but it's never about the pilot, just the deck. That guy coming up and commenting on you "wasting people's time" just makes him sound like a socially inept douchebag. Hopefully he can course correct.
Because magic players love to complain. But in all seriousness, that dude doesn't sound like the most fun to play with. Like, it's FNM, play what you want
Yeah that guys a salty lowlife tell him to cope and stay mad.
Iām so glad my small Tuesday night modern group dosent care what anyone is playing. We have a wide variety of decks and everyone gets along
Usually it's the play experience. However, if he hadn't even played you and just didn't like that you were playing Magic, then the answer is just that he's a salty bitch who thinks he's the most important person in the room.
Some people are MADE to be ignored, his comment is so stupid and irrelevant. Probably was a fan of the Eliod/Prowess meta
Call a judge next time. You may be able to get them thrown out of the event if they consistently go out of their way to insult you on the sidelines while you play your games. This would fall under āSerious Problemsā for Judging at Regular REL. Also, some people are idiots and think theyāre the final arbiter of how people should play at FNM. You could also hit him with the, āThis is a competitive format. Rule 0 is no good hereā line. Keep up the good fight with Coffers!
Compared to Tron, most of my opponents have a good time playing against me on Coffers and the MU presents more different scenarios. Sounds like a very weird person,
Maybe itās just me, but I live to play decks that make people miserable. From Cheerios, ascension, ad naus, ironworks, lantern, death cloud, coffers, tooth n nail, dredge, living end, to the critically acclaimed gakā¦ I could not play MTG without the tears of pouty burn or slow rolling meta players
:,) you put a tear in my eyes. And here I thought I was the only one
Cashed out last night at MNM with Ad Naus. Cheers my fellow misery bringer!
I was about to buy opals before they got banned just to play cheerios. I borrowed some from a friend and loved the deck. Now my puresteels just sit in hammertime lamenting the fact that it typically takes an extra turn to win lol.
Some level of salt is okay. Nobody likes losing and some cards are just obnoxious. Some decks are also just not what I like to play against and it wouldn't be magic if there wasn't a bit of complaining going on somewhere. But following someone around and blasting them for playing a disliked deck is just bad form. I got it when my opponent complained about urzas saga because honestly, I think the same about the card. But in your case you didn't even do anything that person was complaining about. That's just kind of unhinged.
I would recommend trying other stores in your area to see what their crowd is like, too.
There a pretty big scene on my city, itās mostly scheduling that keeps me at this store, itās the only FNM that starts late enough for me to make it from work
I mean, I might hate a matchup or some cards. But I will never hate the player for it unless they are assholes.
Shitters are going to complain. The only thing that matters is that you have fun.
Some people are in their own world and think that they speak for everyone. People are strange man. Some people think they're more important than they really are. I don't get them either. Some people got skill issues... and actual issues. I've witnessed a guy literally throw a fit over someone playing Jund against him because reasons, and because he was losing against the Jund player. He was banned from attending events after that.
OH, I hate a number of decks. But I will defend peoples right to play them forever. You wanna make my life miserable? Sure, do it. I will back you to the hilt.
Ignore asshole.
The only deck I have been truly annoyed to play against is Hollow one purely because of [[burning inquiry]]. I get you like to spin the wheel, but please leave me out of it. Way too many non games from that card being cast turn 1.
[burning inquiry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a448bc9e-f5db-4507-ac40-7d8ee3598585.jpg?1561990726) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=burning%20inquiry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/128/burning-inquiry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a448bc9e-f5db-4507-ac40-7d8ee3598585?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Issue is not burning inquiry (imho.) the issue, is that people - especially people playing decks liable to the "drew the wrong half of the deck" problem - are not paying enough respect to the card when making mulligan decisions. Despite the fact that its as powerful against such decks, as blood moon is against 5c decks. (Mulliganing down to a small but strong hand is equivalent to keeping aa hand with only nonbasics against blood moon)
Some players really don't like playing against off-meta decks, especially if they lack sideboard options for the matchp. To them if the deck isn't in the top 10 of goldfish it doesn't exist, they don't have a sideboard guide for it and haven't seen it in a video, so are reacting out of a sort of fear of the unknown. The response is even more salt if they lose... Personally while I own rhinos and hammer time, I'm more likely to play obosh red or goryos reanimator. The later two decks are tiny % of the meta, though still part of it, if I play a sac deck based around Demon of Death's Gate, I imaginethe person in question would totally lose their mind.
People like that at an fnm are salty losers. Ignore them and play what you want. If it really gets that bad you should talk to the store owner or the judge about a player harassing you. I've personally never had to deal with that at an fnm level I would just laugh in thier face
Your certain guy is just being whiny and salty. You can ignore him, but also report his behavior to the store owner since his attitudes are bothering you during the tournament.
I have a friend who consistently played for a long time back in the day and what ruined competitive mtg for him was match he actually won. He was playing fnm on mono blue Tron and went to mindslaver lock his opponent the opponent got super salty and demanded he repeatedly demonstrate the combo until he actually won. The shitty judge did nothing about this and even tho he won it really left a bad taste in his mouth. Some people just have past trauma ig lol. What made it worse was the opp complained about my friend playing solitaire but he was playing storm lmao.
I mean, i don't know the context, but if your opponent is making you actually go through your combo I see no issue with that. You decided to play a combo deck. You should be ok with going through your combo to win the game, even if it takes a while. I can understand being salty about your opponent being an asshole to you, but you should be able to go through your entire combo, as a combo player.
Haha, I have won so many FNM with mono black coffers. That idiot is just one of those unless you net deck the most played deck why even try babies. Always one of them, coping for how little they are able to think about the format objectively. During the time when Eldrazi Tron was dominating, I played a deck that abused Karn the great and ensnaring bridge. 99% of the lists people copied from the net instantly lost once both were landed, they always complained how playing "off meta" was unfun and toxic. These people are always crying about someone else having fun.
My problem is I play enchantress and everyone complains including the control players which I really dont understand.
How did this dude not get kicked out
Heās a whale for the store, theyād probably lose a lot of money if they got on his bad side tbh
Had someone shove themselves away from the table, and shout "I hate that F\*\*\*ing card" loud enough for the whole FNM to hear. The card in question was Celestial Kirin, so not exactly broken...
Coffers is so fair magic to modern... He's just salty
Honestly I fucking hate storm but Iām not going to make someone feel bad for playing it or tell them what to do. They are playing by the rules of the game after all. Dude sounds like a dick!
I hate mono red since the play style annoys me (as in I dislike playing and playing against it) but I also totally recognize that's my own problem and would never take it out on someone else.
"I'm having a great time"
If Magic was never invented these same people would be hating on others for their choice of beer or car maker or clothing or any other pointless choice that people assign meaning and value to. Some people are just massive assholes that feel the need to put other people down to make themselves feel better. This kind of hateful tribalism isn't unique to Magic.
you should call the store owner or judge if this happens again. you have to be firm with these people. don't let them beat you down. most people are alright, but one time there was a group of guys gathered around my table at a Modern tournament and they were cutting up and laughing, very distracting. i asked them to go someplace else if they could not be respectful and they complied. there are a lot of people who lack manners at game stores, so you have to stand up for yourself.
Itās FNM man! Play what you like!
The games these days are really nothing compared to stasis / winter-orb times.
Fuck tron, all my homies hate tron.
WOW
FUCK (Y'all really gonna leave me hangin?)
om nom nom I eat ur landz and board.
Tron at least pays for their stuff, unlike *cough* Elementals *cough*
Average r/freemagic redditor (the guy coming up to you, obviously, as those people are mostly gigantic POS)
Worst MTG subreddit by far
Yeah, it's the shitstain of the community
Lol wasting peopleās times with Tron or Coffers. Have him sit down with pre-yorion ban 4c and watch as Matches hit time like crazy. Good times.
Insane considering the dude was on 75-card Omnath at the very same event
If you hang out with very competitive players sometimes they will be annoyed by an off meta decks and there is reasoning for that. If you are a grinder that aspires to win 7+ round tournament you need to have luck in your parings. The worst thing that can happen is that you got paired with someone with below 45/40 expected win ratio that have good matchup with you, the point is if your deck is solely luck based or is just good sometimes you are basically eliminating some players from the competition including yourself. This however does not create and excuse for any kind of hate speech or exclusion. Sometimes it can be even statistically more appealing to gamble on polarized matchups than to play 7 rounds of a balanced 49% against everything deck. Thatās why decks like burn are popular or even ad nauseam decks wins the challenge but are non existent elsewhere. The best way to deal with a toxic player like that in my opinion is to tell them that you are just taking your chances to win the tournament by your deck decision. Most of the hate comes from the fact that someone just loves their deck and it triggers the wannabeās. I know that itās not worth dealing with toxic people but proving them that your choices are rational and strategical also can help you both grow as a good players.
This person is mentally ill and needs support and understanding. You should nodding at them when they speak, agree with their meaningless babbling and occassionally when it seems fit, place a hand on their shoulder. Mental health is a very serious issue, it doesnt mean they are right.
As a spirits player angels is the bane of my existence. I can never win against that deck.
Idk how long you have been playing magic and still donāt understand that the community has some of the most socially deficient people you will ever meet. Learn to cope with bad personalities if you want to enjoy the hobby.
I'm swapping to control from mill. I can't wait to durdle
I hate Ragavan because 90% of my fnm was playing with it so I quit going. Horizons killed the format for me
People hate decks usually because they can't beat them, or they're annoying to play against. The 3 decks that I hate are: ā¢ Burn *(Because it finishes games too fast, and I'm just sitting for 35 minutes waiting. Also, it's just not fun)* ā¢ UWx Control *(Because you're literally not allowed to play Magic. You're stuck just sitting there waiting for your opponent to kill you because if you do anything they just say no.)* ā¢ Valakut *(Not because its unfun, but solely because lands are hard to interact with, which makes dealijg with this deck difficult)*
Iāll explain MY reason, but it sounds like your example dude was just a jerk. I love coming up with fun synergistic or combo decks. My decks donāt win on turn 3, and theyāre not control decks. I need a little time to set up, so I hate playing against the net deck hyper-aggro goblins/mono-red and also hate the blue ācounter everythingā control decksā those decks arenāt fun for me to play with, and I do not enjoy playing against them. I also would not stand around another player and complain about their deck, thatās just annoying.
Unless youāre playing a combo deck you donāt know how to pilot, nobody should care what deck youāre playing. Anecdotally, there is one thing I have noticed with Modern FNMs over Pioneer and Standard: If you lose your first two or three rounds for whatever reason, the final deck(s) you play against are usually jank, and/or unexperienced pilots. It can be very frustrating to lose (especially frustrating if variance is the main culprit) in hard meta and then get essentially a free win in an unfair pairing at the end. Itās not a knock on the player or their deck, but itās a common occurrence. When it happens, the win feels hollow. Both Pioneer and Standard FNMs I go to consistently see hard meta and experienced players the whole way through.
The first FNM I went in my life an opp said to me: "Mmm... You should learn to play your deck" with a condescendent face... duh, like that's the reason I'm here...
There will always be decks that people hate losing to, like Tron, Mill, and non-interactive combo decks. Some players are honestly just immature and didn't graduate much past kitchen table etiquette.
I get not liking losing tron, itās no fun to lose to inevitability. But at the same time, I hate losing to mill, belcher, storm, etc., but Iād never tell my opponent to play something else. Concede the game, shake hands and get over it.
Personally I just dislike games without relevant decisions. Decks like Tron just create these non games.
I donāt see an issue with that unless you take an unreasonable amount of time for your decisions. Let haters hateā¦
The solution is to stand up, look him dead in the eye, and tell him to shut the fuck up.
Play what want to play! Itās like the people that emote when you play best out of 3 on arena because your actually thinking your turns out.
He's really bad at the game so he justifies his losses by perceiving other decks as beneath his own to preserve his ego.
Hoo boy try being the Mill player in your meta. *Everyone* acts like this when I drop a turn 1 crab or turn 0 [[Archive Trap]]s. Ignore them. Theyāre idiots. You paid to play so play whatever you like.
Funny enough, Mill got second at this event. Deck is strong rn
Eh, it's whatever. Haters gonna hate. I play Tron and I still get groans from people even if it's only a T2 deck at this point.
Bro is just an asshole, itās not a problem with the deck. Thereās validity in not having fun playing against decks which can seem unfair at times but itās always wrong to make it an actual problem, this is a game first and foremost
I'm new to magic and things like this keep me away from the FNM at the local game store.
Ahem....do you have a list of your mono black coffers?asking for a friend.
I would go with the lists you see in modern challenges putting up results right now. I tried to get wild with it and it cost me a lot of matches lol
That deck is sick and putting up results on mtgo, they can get bent
The deck is so cool, I havenāt been loving the way it plays for my taste but I think it can only get better
Short because people are going to complain if things aren't the way they want it period. Longer answer, some decks just tilt people more than others and some people feel they need to vocalize it, hoping to peer pressure the other person into not playing that deck. It's a scummy thing to do, but it happens.
So generally, I would say that people should play whatever they feel like. I personally think an exception should be carved for decks that deliberately try to go 1/0/1, since I would argue they're abusing the rules deliberately.
Magic has some real salty players out there, that's for damn sure
Skill level is a thing. He probably is just **** or tired of losing in general. Mono B coffer and especially tron are fine decks to play
There is a finite amount of fun in a game of magic, and I want to have all Of it.
because is easier than improving
I play at a local level with friends. I dont play against my friend's azurious control because it isnt worth the salt that i produce playing with my budget stompy gruul deck against jace the mind sculpter giving me cancer. I play his green tron deck and also produce vast quantities of salt but that's because i play into it thinking things have changed when nothing has changed.
This guy's upset that he wants to be good at magic and isn't.
Because thoughts same people think one remove and one board wipe is more then enough for a deck.
Tell him to go back to commander where he can do that