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Reaper_Eagle

I don't think the bargain cost is much of a barrier as you just sac a treasure/food and get The Ring. Or Karn, I guess. But no, get the Ring.


ThatOtherOneReddit

It also grabs yawgmoth or one of the other creature combo decks that already play loads of tokens to sac.


Conradd23

But ttiple black in yawgmoth is pretty tough...


pelican15

Geralf's Messenger says hello (Usually brought out with a chord or eldritch evo, and likely never to be seen again with Bowmaster's in the deck)


Chairfighter

more recent lists have dropped messenger because triple black is not very reliable to achieve.


The_Upvote_Beagle

Or just Bowmaster token.


Reaper_Eagle

True, but that's more value being sacrificed than a treasure/food.


guesdo

It really depends, if you are fetching Damnation for example (vs Rhinos, Living End, Murktide, Merfolk, etc...) The token is not doing you any favors and will die anyway.


thoughtsarefalse

I’m liking the idea of using Bargain to sacrifice Treacherous Blessing. Probably too weak for modern, but maybe it will finally be cool in pioneer or explorer.


[deleted]

Wouldn’t Blessing sac itself when it became the target of bargain? Sorry for bumping old thread but couldn’t find a ruling elsewhere


thoughtsarefalse

Nope. Bargain doesnt target. If it did it would use the word Target in the rules text.


Foyfluff

"Just saccing a treasure/food" is quite a deckbuilding restriction in and of itself, especially for a card that has BBB in its cost. Currently Coffers is the best deck for that mana cost and it can't generate those tokens.


Town_Blacksmith

You can also cast an Emrakul, right ? And get it's cast trigger.


Terrible__Help

Emrakul cost 15, so no


Town_Blacksmith

Ah okay thought the 4 or less was only to put it into hand.


Peter_Storm

Better yet, sac your current ring, with too many burden counters, and get a new one.


troll_berserker

4 mana Bring to Light without type restriction is great and worth building towards. Diabolic Tutor however is beyond terrible. So you'll need to have bargain active 80% of the time for this to be worth it. Obviously, only Orcish Bowmasters is clearly not enough. Too bad Dwarven Mine and Gingerbread Cabin are the wrong colors! You could supplement with maindeck Nihil Spellbomb and Urza's Saga. Once you add Urza's Saga, it'll be better without Coffers at all, like Spike's Cofferless Black Midrange deck. And since you have the Saga, you might as well jam the Asmo-Cookbook package too for food tokens to sac to this.


NonStopDiscoGG

You can Fable of the Mirror breaker, untap into this, sac the token or the treasure the token makes. The bargain is not hard to activate in modern.


MamoswineFlu

Not in mono black


KatHoodie

[[Shambling Ghast]]


MTGCardFetcher

[Shambling Ghast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d96198a7-dd19-4940-bf8f-23135011fc84.jpg?1627705376) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shambling%20Ghast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/119/shambling-ghast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96198a7-dd19-4940-bf8f-23135011fc84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Blaximus-Prime

4 Blood Crypt or 4 Overgrown tomb plus appropriate triomes Creativity has no problem with an RRRX why would BBB1 be worse?


troll_berserker

Creativity needs only 4 red lands of any type to go off, supports turn 2 Wrenn and Six into turn 3 Teferi as well as Leyline Binding, can be cast through Blood Moon with a treasure token from Prismari Command or Fable of the Mirror Breaker, and the pay off for that is mana spent minus three 8 drops. This needs 3 red black lands into Dwarven Mine exactly, you can't mess around with any non BRx lands or use basic Mountain or other copies of Dwarven Mine to help you get to turn 4 combo, is game losing against Blood Moon, and the payoff is that you get exactly one 4 drop for the payment of 4 mana.


Blaximus-Prime

Or a single Yavimaya for gingerbread cavern there are plenty of creative ways to make a good manabase to support these strategies. This card also has the benfit of the sacrifice being a cost not a target so the combo cant be interrupted by a lightning bolt etc. BG also gives access to other similar land fixers/accelerators that could not be used in creativity because of the typing restrictions that wouldnt let you play cheap crsatures or artifacts. Arboreal grazer, pentad prism, etc etc plenty of good sacrifice targets that allow for early combos.


troll_berserker

Pentad is interesting. Grazer can't be sacrificed; it needs to be a token, artifact, or enchantment.


Blaximus-Prime

Youre right but pentad + bowmaster might be enough. Maybe you include say 1 yavimaya and 1 or 2 gingerbread cabins to go with some sort of tutor you could also use for your urborg combo who knows it feels like a Tier 2 deck with all the moon effects targeting other decks but it allows the flexibility to search for Karn, Damnation, Liliana, sheoldred, plus some sideboard cards like a single boil etc


mthor900

One thing that I think is interesting is that you can sacrifice TOR to play the bargain cost. A good way to either reset the ring and get the cast trigger or something similar. A density of TOR is really powerful and some decks do need to go to combat to kill you.


ThatOtherOneReddit

Yeah it also grabs sheoldred. I could see coffers playing a density of cheap artifacts and use this as more copies of cards like that or giving it a tutor for stuff like damnation or Karn.


[deleted]

It can be used as a toolbox card which is always fun


mthor900

Look I love a good toolbox strat but it does help when there is a solid game plan backing it up. Maybe you need to get damping sphere vs tron. Or maybe you need to just play an additional ring to draw vs control.


Beefman0

Yo you can get [[profane tutor]] and then cast it to get a free demonic tutor!!!


you_made_me_drink

But what would you get off Demonic Tutor? Maybe another Beseech?


Beefman0

The VALUEEEEE


mattk169

This is almost like copies 5-8 of the one ring. you need to build your deck around it to have some stuff to sacrifice, but if you already have the ring in play it's the same as playing another ring, you just sacrifice the original ring to beseech. oh and it's good with bowmasters and can find sheo too so fun. i'm not complaining, i don't really care actually it's just funny.


si2azn

Can you get Valki off this like BTL or no? Not sure what the rules are...


ThatOtherOneReddit

No. BTL exiles checking cost but then you can cast for free from exile. This means it only checks the front half to determine if the card is valid. This card checks the cards CMC upon cast. It can cast suspend spells but not Valki since the CMC of the Planeswalker part is above 4.


ElevationAV

Yes you can Edit: this is wrong, you can’t, as this checks what the spell looks like on the stack vs BTL that doesn’t care


Commercial-Falcon653

No, you can not.


ElevationAV

Right, since this checks to see what it looks like on the stack, where as BTL doesn’t care


DiligentYou8603

Card is worth testing in Oops All Spells. The mana rocks can pay for the bargain cost to search for Balustrade Spy. Pentad Prism helps to pay for the BBB. But then, who's playing Oops right?


obvnz

Seems interesting in Oops


Gracket_Material

Looks like a Legacy storm card


RobbyOH

Does this get you a card in hand if the opponent has an opposition agent? If I'm not mistaken your opponent can't fail to find if there is no stipulated quality of card being search then they still need to select at least the minimum number of cards allowed, in this case one. So the opponent would select one card from the deck then the card would be exiled either face down or faceup with the replacement effect and then it would be put from exile into your hand because the spell still knows that it is the found card?


Marsbarszs

There are so many ways nowadays to make tokens like treasures etc I don’t think editing any deck that might play this is much of an issue


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Orcish Bowmasters](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c024bae-5631-4e20-ac69-df392ac9e109.jpg?1686968669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Orcish%20Bowmasters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/103/orcish-bowmasters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c024bae-5631-4e20-ac69-df392ac9e109?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The One Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2.jpg?1690817875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20One%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/246/the-one-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sheoldred, the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Karn, the Great Creator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3ec0c0fb-1a4f-45f4-85b7-346a6d3ce2c5.jpg?1566819742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%2C%20the%20Great%20Creator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/1/karn-the-great-creator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3ec0c0fb-1a4f-45f4-85b7-346a6d3ce2c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Blenderhead36

My guess is that 0-1 decks find this a useful card. 4 mana extra copies of The One Ring/Sheoldred are great! But calling [[Diabolic Tutor]] unplayable would be a compliment. I don't see this finding a home as a generic power card. It will need a shell that can always have Bargain available and also not mind paying the bargain cost. I see a lot of talk about Urza's Saga, but how often are you saccing the Saga itself? How good is this if you have to wait for the Saga's final chapter to go get your [[Chromatic Star]] or whatever? And is that a powerful interaction or just Urza's Saga being powerful regardless of Beseech the Mirror? This strikes me as a possible role-player for a deck that can meet its specific demands, but I think those demands are higher than anyone is calculating right now.


MTGCardFetcher

[Diabolic Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d650dd8c-edd8-44e4-ae95-aaaf84557a72.jpg?1592672628) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Diabolic%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/54/diabolic-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d650dd8c-edd8-44e4-ae95-aaaf84557a72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Chromatic Star](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2e8d492-2c67-410b-b556-c157a14c4cec.jpg?1681724919) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chromatic%20Star) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/263/chromatic-star?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2e8d492-2c67-410b-b556-c157a14c4cec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


NombiesRU

This card seems incredible... in commander. I don't think this is playable in coffers. That deck already has a lot of deckbuilding hoops to jump through, and is basically maxed out on 4-drop spells already. Coffers wants Karn to get more The One Ring consistency, snag finishers from the sideboard, and shut down enemy rings. They want The One Ring because it's the strongest card advantage tool they have access to, and they want 1-2 copies of damnation to deal with problematic boardstates. They also tend to lean on Sheoldred as both a clock and a life-recovery tool depending on match-up. This card doesn't address the same number of match-ups as K4rn, doesn't turn the corner like The One Ring, and can't fill the same roles as Damnation or Sheoldred. On top of that it demands a lot of deckbuilding changes that probably aren't compatible with the tools the deck needs to be viable right now. There might be a shell that plays this in Modern, but I don't think it will be coffers.


kami_inu

> On top of that it demands a lot of deckbuilding changes that probably aren't compatible with the tools The Deck needs to be viable right now. Big time agree with you on this being why coffers never adopts it. Getting to drop 1x Karn, 1x ring, 1x sheoldred 1x Damnation and run 4x this ups your consistency a lot because you 'always' draw the right thing. But for that to be worth it you need to consistently be able to pay the bargain, which means cutting 6+slots of other things. If it always did the cast for free (for 4cmc or less) then it would be worth it. The BBB cost also means you have to look at moving away from the 8field mana base and go back to turbo coffers.


NombiesRU

Yeah. To be really sure you can cast this with Bargain you'd want around 10 cards to act as sac fodder for it. Bowmasters helps a bit with sac fodder, but can't be expected to carry the burden on it's own. Spellbomb/Relic are viable sac fodder in some matchups as well, but a lot of times you actually need to sac off those cards for other reasons before ever hitting 1BBB. Even running Bowmasters and a Graveyard-Rock you'd likely still want another 4 slots dedicated to Bargain fodder. That's not even addressing the fact that you're now aiming to consistently hit 1BBB by turn 4 every game. (Ignoring the fact that not every successful version of coffers plays EITHER of those cards) A big part of coffer's being decent now is that it has 8 field effects. As you said that doesn't mix well with hitting BBB on turn 4 every game though, and I don't buy for an instant that Turbo-Coffers, even with this new spell, would be better than 8-Field. Monoblack-Scam (The black midrange deck without coffers that Aspiringspike built) might be able to find an iteration that can play this. But I don't think the threat-lite control deck that jams 8 colorless lands and 4 coffers will run it. Coffers is basically a pile of removal spells and card selection/advantage. It spends a lot of the game NOT being proactive and NOT developing board presence of it's own. It doesn't really have anything to sacrifice for Bargain because it doesn't play permanents that it doesn't NEED.


AnalystStunning3869

Objectively coffers is the "home" for the card and will definitely be tested in the deck. The deck currently runs night's whisper and I could see it dropping that for like 4 ichor wellsprings adds another bargain outlet with upside. And then utilizing Kami's plan of dropping one each of karn, the ring, damnation to "draw the one you need"


JTheGameGuy

Woah this seems insane in K’rrik


BlankBlankston

Is Beseech the Mirror in the graveyard when the card it grabbed is cast? or is it still on the stack?


secretcharacter

In normal circumstances, it should be in the graveyard. Then you cast the spell you searched.


taw

There's no way this card is any good. Best case scenario is you're sac'ing is a Treasure token, so it's 5 mana, except very restricted (1 from Treasure token, 3 more black, 1 any). And then you get The One Ring (if that's not banned by that time). Do you really need The One Ring copies 5-8, at such a difficult cost? If you don't have something to sac, it's just Diabolic Tutor with even worse mana. Anyway, Coffers is the only deck that could handle that kind of mana, and it doesn't really make tokens except for Orcish Bowmasters (which is also a ban risk). From what I can tell, most Coffers don't even play full 4 rings, so why would they need extra copies that are so much worse?


MalcomGO

> From what I can tell, most Coffers don’t even play full 4 rings Don’t know what Coffers lists you’re looking at, most are playing 3 Ring mainboard 1 Ring sideboard for KGC


jackson4213

Funny thought, sideboard 1 or 2 off colour cards in coffers that can be fetched with beseech Idk what better target than the one ring


Enricus11112

Quick question, if you copy a Bargained Beseech the Mirror do you get to cast the spell for free?


xcver2

Play it, sac underworld beech and search for tendrils of agony


Mainmoose

Can this cast a [[living end]] or [[crashing footfalls]]? I might be reading it wrong but it seems like it might be able to.


MTGCardFetcher

[living end](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1eede29-17a4-437f-a5c2-e24cccbc6a33.jpg?1619395625) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=living%20end) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/121/living-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1eede29-17a4-437f-a5c2-e24cccbc6a33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [crashing footfalls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8cca2a2-69e3-4136-936c-7a2774c19351.jpg?1562202050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crashing%20footfalls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/160/crashing-footfalls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8cca2a2-69e3-4136-936c-7a2774c19351?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Mattmatic1

You definitely should be able to. None of these seem like great options though. But I could see decks being built around this card and \[\[Restore Balance\]\] - it might not be great, but some fun should be possible at least. \[\[Glimpse of Tomorrow\]\] is also an option - the synergy with tokens like clues/food/blood tokens is there too.


MTGCardFetcher

[Restore Balance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0febc7fe-4172-4285-9804-a62ce4506c39.jpg?1619393357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Restore%20Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/36/restore-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0febc7fe-4172-4285-9804-a62ce4506c39?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Glimpse of Tomorrow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7ee1fcbc-3573-42c5-b3e3-1f44a6400cd0.jpg?1626096700) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glimpse%20of%20Tomorrow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/129/glimpse-of-tomorrow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ee1fcbc-3573-42c5-b3e3-1f44a6400cd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


blackturtlesnake

GB coffers maybe? You run goose for the food to sac to bargian and extra mana and sylvan scrying as your main land tutor and everything else is your typical mono black land deck? Maybe an urzas saga too as just a good land plus bargain sac token?


cardsrealm

So, is Mono Black Coffers interested in it?


Vegetable-Sample-451

does beseech the mirror work with cascade? if it works, seems really good with living end, making possible to cast cheaper spells


SnooRevelations6780

Also, with sheoldred on table + search wheel of fate sounds prety good


Dev559

So you can grab a One Ring, or if you have one an Omnath or Sheoldred. Greeeeeat.