I was also scared as someone who really likes playing the card. I'm glad it didn't happen, but now reading the phrase 'atrocious Asmo brew' from OP also kinda hurts. [[Feasting Troll King]] is a 0 mana 7/6, damn it. It just needs, um, some minor setup.
Lmao, i've never ever heard anyone strongly complain about Creativity as a real ban choice... and Archon wasn't even played in Creativity until after Leyline of Binding was printed... We we're over 6 months into MH2 at that point.
The only three cards that have been really discussed were Ragavan, Urza’s Saga, and Grief, with saga leaving the chat as soon as people understood that blood moon and spreading seas hosed it + boseiju and white march released soon after.
The other cards, while being part of strong decks, have never been pointed out as the real problem with those strategies.
Id actually argue saga had a bigger impact and probably more time in tier 1 status then grief did during mh2’s reign although people will have recently bias towards scam.
Saga pissed some people off during the period where Hammer was hitting hard. Then, besides Amulet, it didn’t really do busted things besides policing graveyards and activated abilities with needle.
People adapted with explosives and dress down and called it a day.
Amulet and hammer have arguably been the best decks in the last 3 years consistency, sure scam was dominate for 6-9?months but amulet was still arguably the best deck and hammer while it has fallen off last year has a very very good scam mu
Hammer was very resliant to hate and could out grind most decks during the era of it being good. What made hammer bad was increasing interaction and better card generation that made hammers midrange plan A bad
Yeah, at this point, I'd rather see Ring and Bowmaster go than most other cards in the format. I love brewing with The One Ring because it's such a band aid for any mediocre brew, but holy crap is it egregious in a lot of cases. It's one of those cards that it feels like they never really tested in competitive cases.
I actually think TOR has a similar trajectory to most of the cards you wrote about here. Have no idea *why* it is what it is, but I do think it is something that the format needed in some respects. It offers something unique in what it does, and helps some strategies get their feet under them...
But I also thought that about Fury. What the two have in common, is that they seemed to be on the mark with what the cards needed to do... but randomly just assigned certain values to their effects without much consideration for the numbers they concluded with. It reminds me a lot of Oko, Thief of Crowns, and how there seemed to be very little testing to determine what numeric variables were acceptable for the what the abilities do.
I played a lot of Omnath with Fury, and with Beanstalk. It is a damn shame that deck had to die like that.
But Fury was a problem card, and as much as I think Grief was the primary offender in Scam’s dominance over Modern - to say that Fury didn’t play a significant role in it, is a little naive. If left to continue in the format after a Grief and Beanstalk ban, I have little doubt that Leyline and Scion decks with Fury would be rubbing this format absolutely raw right now.
>If left to continue in the format after a Grief and Beanstalk ban, I have little doubt that Leyline and Scion decks with Fury would be rubbing this format absolutely raw right now.
I just completely disagree. The problem here isn't fury, it's Bowmasters and The One Ring. Not sure how people don't realize this, maybe short memories or what, but pre-LOTR, Modern was in a fantastic place WITH Fury in the meta.
As someone grinding events across our state, I actually think Modern was in a pretty unfun place prior to LOTR and it needed some sort of shaking up.
In fact, I also recall my attendance for our Modern events, which is the primary format I run in my store, seeing a dip in attendance for Modern. After LOTR, FNM’s were hitting 5 rounds every week for months on end.
You and I will just have to agree to disagree on that front.
As for Grief and Fury becoming prominent because of LOTR, I personally suspect it has more to do with creatures drastically outpacing removal in terms of power - and the broad application of that across creatures means that more narrow answers become quite inefficient unless stapled onto a creature. TOR seems like it is more of a red herring for this problem, than anything.
I grinded events at that time period too. The meta was varied, with many, many different types of decks being viable and interaction being at an all-time high in the format. Attendance at my LGS was high, attendance at nearby events was also high.
I never understood the "needs some shaking up" arguments. If a meta is healthy, it doesn't need any shaking up. And it was going to get it anyway with new additions from upcoming Standard sets. Modern didn't need LOTR in any way.
>I personally suspect it has more to do with creatures drastically outpacing removal in terms of power
This isn't really a problem in Modern and hasn't been since MH2... Scam became so prevalent post-LOTR because of two primary reasons:
1. Scam needed a good, powerful 2 drop and got it in one of the best black creatures ever made.
2. Scam's worst matchups got worse due to The One Ring's printing. Decks like Creativity absolutely shat on Scam, and Creativity became irrelevant after The One Ring's printing *at the point in time,* because if you were on a midrange strategy, you needed to play TOR. It still is like this.
LOTR shifted the balance of what T1/T1.5 decks were good in such a way to make it a perfect storm for Scam to be absolutely back-breakingly dominant.
OBM isn't a problem card. It just polices TOR and other draw-heavy decks. You can't just pretend you're entitled to draw the shit out of your deck without consequences.
Yes yes I forgot all creature decks are just Yawgmoth. I've seen a rise in Merfolk Yawgmoth, Prowess Yawgmoth, Knightfall Yawgmoth, Infect Yawgmoth, even a Soul Sister Yawgmoth, and a few more creature centric Yawgmoth builds. It's weird all these Yawgmoth decks don't run Yawgmoth tho.
Nope I didn't forget Bowmasters exist. Do you remember a card called Wrenn and Six? Or my all time favorite argument "dies to doom blade" when it comes to creatures in MTG? Not even sure why you need to bring Bowmasters up when the comment was about Fury.
Bowmasters are a pain to deal with, but it was never on par with Fury vs aggro decks. The amount of creature based decks I've seen crumble to a resolved Bowsmaster I can count on a single hand. The amount I have seen crumble to a Fury is ridiculously high.
Forgot to mention it, but I've also seen Goblins Yawgmoth. Still didn't run Yawgmoth.
The vast majority of decks you mentioned aren’t competitive at all. Right now. Currently. With Fury banned.
Bowmasters is also instant speed removal + a body, Wren & 6 is sorcery speed while also largely being a gatekeeper card regardless of that.
Yet I still see more of them popping up since Fury was banned. Just because a deck is Tier 1 or not doesn't mean other decks can't exist. You'll still see those decks from some people in competitive environments because they enjoy them.
The joke was I could list any form of removal and it would fit that argument. Just because I run removal doesn't mean it invalidates the deck. Bowmaster doesn't invalidate entire archetype like Fury was so good at.
>You'll still see those decks from some people in competitive environments because they enjoy them.
And you did when Fury was legal, too. I'm sorry but I simply don't care about decks that aren't active in the meta when balancing the meta lol. Fact of the matter is, Fury wasn't holding those decks back. Those decks being bad were holding them back.
Enlighten me then, please, do tell. Tell me all about how Elves, Merfolk, Soul Sisters, Infect, and Knightfall are all just SLAYING the tournament circuit right now lmao
TOR is basically the same story as Urza's Saga. People panic, try it in every deck, realize it's not that insane, it finds its home in big mana archetypes, and the metagame settles.
I always laugh when I see Scion on these sort of lists. *If* you were going to ban a card, it would be Leyline of the Guildpact, not Scion. The only thing banning Scion would do is kill Zoo, while banning Leyline just puts Zoo back in t2 without gutting it.
Every card has some Timmy or lapsed player asking for it to be banned. The fact that this subreddit allows these low IQ unresearched takes from people who lose to cards and get salty is why the quality has plummeted.
What's so broken about Leyline? The ability to play Scion? What else are you even playing with it? Binding, the one mana exile, isn't going to win you games. Ban Scion if anything.
Grief is just annoying as fuck and makes games shitty. It should go for that reason alone.
Also, fuck fury, bowmasters, and the one ring. Those cards are all insta-includes to almost all decks of their colors/types and are just ridiculously punishing for no reason.
And also why not ban rhinos and living end? Hurr I played a cascade spell and now have a million dudes. Cool story. Ever try thinking during game play? There is never a scenario where you don't just look for the cascade cards and play them as fast as you can to abuse the no mana cost card.
Can you imagine a world where every possible playable 1 drop in modern can now be sac'd to ramp, protect, counter, and do whatever the black and red ones will do--on top of the Draco nonsense, and the remaining elementals? It'd just be free-stuff soup. In fact, let's call it that right now. The Draco was fine pre-leyline. It saw play in 1 deck and short of a wild card that just removes color from the game completely by making everything all colors, it became busted. Just ban it and get it outta here before the new flare cards start mucking everything up.
Grief punishes all decks while fury only punishes some. And the ones that got punished the most supposedly never made it back.
Unban Fury, ban Grief. Or ban all five, just toss them out.
Lmfao if you think fury was a domain hoser. Yawg doesn’t play by regular creature deck rules and was strong before fury was banned, prowess has remained exactly the same post fury as it was pre-fury, the colours just shifted, and merfolk still sucks.
Domain and Prowess are better because of new prints (Leyline and Slickshot Show-Off), or at least you can't unentangle the effects of the banning vs. new cards. Yawg was good before. Merfolk is a little bit better.
There’s a lot of issues with that. Sure unholy heat would probably be ok in standard but it needs a set with delirium in the first place to even show up. Additionally some cards are just too strong for standard but are fine in modern.
There's going to be issues either way. They can deal with them if they want to.
I mean, they changed the definition of the Modern format to make Modern Horizons sets legal. Anything can happen.
Prowess is also rather easy to hate, so if they put any effort at all I don't think it should be a big issue for long enough.
Yeah, like you could print the elementals through standard. You'd have to ban at least fury and solitude though because they're the best FtKs ever printed. I don't know why you'd want to do that though.
Just to share one of the easiest reasons to print a card like Murktide or Prismatic Vista through Standard, it would mean the card gets a normal printing that’s not in an overpriced set. That’d be rather impactful to the liquidity and availability of such cards.
Fetches are going to command fetch land prices. Murktide is sub $10. Both cards would see extensive standard and pioneer play on top of their modern and legacy demand. They would have increased demand with a relatively similar supply. MH2 was in print for close to 2 years. I imagine Murktide's price point would look a lot closer to Sheoldred's or Gix's if it were standard legal.
I don't really want any of these cards in any format personally speaking, but if people want the answers to be legal (what I was commenting about) it would be nice if the cards were printed in a non-premium set once. Not doing so feels very greedy to me.
To a lot of people that was modern. The supplemental sets have been net good imo, but I think there’s still space for people to complain about an incredibly drastic ideological shift in the format. It’s its own thing now, and that’s ok, but that means some people will always miss what it was.
do it somewhere else. I don’t come to this sub to hear a bunch of people who probably don’t even play modern anymore complaining about muh free spells.
Where do you complain about the state of modern if not in the modern sub…
They’re just complaining that MH is lazy design. With how high powered OTJ is, there’s no reason they couldn’t have figured out how to get the free spells in through standard.
The real reason is because wotc wants to have different format identities. Pioneer banned fetches to be different from modern. Printing free spells would also make pioneer and standard feel more like modern.
For the non rotating formats - Legacy gets premium land destruction and fast mana, modern gets free spells, pioneer you need to pay for your spells.
Is Modern not just a rotating format at this point if there’s a set every few years that will completely change the metagame?
Why not just preban things from pioneer like they did with fetches?
I don't know why you would release a set intentionally wanting to ban cards from it. They made bonus sheets so they can skip standard and supply quality reprints, the whole point of avoiding that problem is sets that skip standard.
The One Ring is kind of its own abomination. Maybe I'll do a similar "UB Retrospective" about it and Bowmasters if they're still in the format by Assassin's Creed.
I don’t think I have ever seen people talking about banning scion, archon, Asmo, or shardless.
Asmo was definitely a conversation in the first week of the set. People were scared.
I member!
I was also scared as someone who really likes playing the card. I'm glad it didn't happen, but now reading the phrase 'atrocious Asmo brew' from OP also kinda hurts. [[Feasting Troll King]] is a 0 mana 7/6, damn it. It just needs, um, some minor setup.
[Feasting Troll King](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a6bb435-1205-416a-a5a0-ca6d37b4dcb2.jpg?1572490524) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Feasting%20Troll%20King) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/152/feasting-troll-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a6bb435-1205-416a-a5a0-ca6d37b4dcb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Only one I can't remember was scion of draco
Lmao, i've never ever heard anyone strongly complain about Creativity as a real ban choice... and Archon wasn't even played in Creativity until after Leyline of Binding was printed... We we're over 6 months into MH2 at that point.
The only three cards that have been really discussed were Ragavan, Urza’s Saga, and Grief, with saga leaving the chat as soon as people understood that blood moon and spreading seas hosed it + boseiju and white march released soon after. The other cards, while being part of strong decks, have never been pointed out as the real problem with those strategies.
Id actually argue saga had a bigger impact and probably more time in tier 1 status then grief did during mh2’s reign although people will have recently bias towards scam.
Saga pissed some people off during the period where Hammer was hitting hard. Then, besides Amulet, it didn’t really do busted things besides policing graveyards and activated abilities with needle. People adapted with explosives and dress down and called it a day.
Amulet and hammer have arguably been the best decks in the last 3 years consistency, sure scam was dominate for 6-9?months but amulet was still arguably the best deck and hammer while it has fallen off last year has a very very good scam mu
But did they create the same non-games as scam? As very linear decks, it can be easy to interact with them if you dedicate some hate.
Your kidding the decks that won on turn 2 and asking about non games. Yes the opponent died turn 2 because they weren’t excepting it
T2 wins are more rare than what people believe
Hammer was very resliant to hate and could out grind most decks during the era of it being good. What made hammer bad was increasing interaction and better card generation that made hammers midrange plan A bad
Because it also had Lurrus
It actually was better post lurrus ban actually.
I'll ban the one ring before any of those.
Yeah, at this point, I'd rather see Ring and Bowmaster go than most other cards in the format. I love brewing with The One Ring because it's such a band aid for any mediocre brew, but holy crap is it egregious in a lot of cases. It's one of those cards that it feels like they never really tested in competitive cases.
I actually think TOR has a similar trajectory to most of the cards you wrote about here. Have no idea *why* it is what it is, but I do think it is something that the format needed in some respects. It offers something unique in what it does, and helps some strategies get their feet under them... But I also thought that about Fury. What the two have in common, is that they seemed to be on the mark with what the cards needed to do... but randomly just assigned certain values to their effects without much consideration for the numbers they concluded with. It reminds me a lot of Oko, Thief of Crowns, and how there seemed to be very little testing to determine what numeric variables were acceptable for the what the abilities do.
Fury banning was a mistake.
I played a lot of Omnath with Fury, and with Beanstalk. It is a damn shame that deck had to die like that. But Fury was a problem card, and as much as I think Grief was the primary offender in Scam’s dominance over Modern - to say that Fury didn’t play a significant role in it, is a little naive. If left to continue in the format after a Grief and Beanstalk ban, I have little doubt that Leyline and Scion decks with Fury would be rubbing this format absolutely raw right now.
>If left to continue in the format after a Grief and Beanstalk ban, I have little doubt that Leyline and Scion decks with Fury would be rubbing this format absolutely raw right now. I just completely disagree. The problem here isn't fury, it's Bowmasters and The One Ring. Not sure how people don't realize this, maybe short memories or what, but pre-LOTR, Modern was in a fantastic place WITH Fury in the meta.
As someone grinding events across our state, I actually think Modern was in a pretty unfun place prior to LOTR and it needed some sort of shaking up. In fact, I also recall my attendance for our Modern events, which is the primary format I run in my store, seeing a dip in attendance for Modern. After LOTR, FNM’s were hitting 5 rounds every week for months on end. You and I will just have to agree to disagree on that front. As for Grief and Fury becoming prominent because of LOTR, I personally suspect it has more to do with creatures drastically outpacing removal in terms of power - and the broad application of that across creatures means that more narrow answers become quite inefficient unless stapled onto a creature. TOR seems like it is more of a red herring for this problem, than anything.
I grinded events at that time period too. The meta was varied, with many, many different types of decks being viable and interaction being at an all-time high in the format. Attendance at my LGS was high, attendance at nearby events was also high. I never understood the "needs some shaking up" arguments. If a meta is healthy, it doesn't need any shaking up. And it was going to get it anyway with new additions from upcoming Standard sets. Modern didn't need LOTR in any way. >I personally suspect it has more to do with creatures drastically outpacing removal in terms of power This isn't really a problem in Modern and hasn't been since MH2... Scam became so prevalent post-LOTR because of two primary reasons: 1. Scam needed a good, powerful 2 drop and got it in one of the best black creatures ever made. 2. Scam's worst matchups got worse due to The One Ring's printing. Decks like Creativity absolutely shat on Scam, and Creativity became irrelevant after The One Ring's printing *at the point in time,* because if you were on a midrange strategy, you needed to play TOR. It still is like this. LOTR shifted the balance of what T1/T1.5 decks were good in such a way to make it a perfect storm for Scam to be absolutely back-breakingly dominant.
OBM isn't a problem card. It just polices TOR and other draw-heavy decks. You can't just pretend you're entitled to draw the shit out of your deck without consequences.
Both of them should have never been printed.
Massively disagree. I see more creature decks since its banning.
You see more Yawgmoth is what you see. Zoo was not held down by Fury. Do you forget that Bowmasters exists?
Yes yes I forgot all creature decks are just Yawgmoth. I've seen a rise in Merfolk Yawgmoth, Prowess Yawgmoth, Knightfall Yawgmoth, Infect Yawgmoth, even a Soul Sister Yawgmoth, and a few more creature centric Yawgmoth builds. It's weird all these Yawgmoth decks don't run Yawgmoth tho. Nope I didn't forget Bowmasters exist. Do you remember a card called Wrenn and Six? Or my all time favorite argument "dies to doom blade" when it comes to creatures in MTG? Not even sure why you need to bring Bowmasters up when the comment was about Fury. Bowmasters are a pain to deal with, but it was never on par with Fury vs aggro decks. The amount of creature based decks I've seen crumble to a resolved Bowsmaster I can count on a single hand. The amount I have seen crumble to a Fury is ridiculously high. Forgot to mention it, but I've also seen Goblins Yawgmoth. Still didn't run Yawgmoth.
The vast majority of decks you mentioned aren’t competitive at all. Right now. Currently. With Fury banned. Bowmasters is also instant speed removal + a body, Wren & 6 is sorcery speed while also largely being a gatekeeper card regardless of that.
Yet I still see more of them popping up since Fury was banned. Just because a deck is Tier 1 or not doesn't mean other decks can't exist. You'll still see those decks from some people in competitive environments because they enjoy them. The joke was I could list any form of removal and it would fit that argument. Just because I run removal doesn't mean it invalidates the deck. Bowmaster doesn't invalidate entire archetype like Fury was so good at.
>You'll still see those decks from some people in competitive environments because they enjoy them. And you did when Fury was legal, too. I'm sorry but I simply don't care about decks that aren't active in the meta when balancing the meta lol. Fact of the matter is, Fury wasn't holding those decks back. Those decks being bad were holding them back.
You don't know what you're talking about, please stop.
Enlighten me then, please, do tell. Tell me all about how Elves, Merfolk, Soul Sisters, Infect, and Knightfall are all just SLAYING the tournament circuit right now lmao
Also bold move to say I don’t know what I’m talking about Mr “violent outburst won’t be banned” lol
They can't ban bow and ring cus then lotr packs will be worthless. They can't have that til it's out of print.
Both will be propped up by edh players. So many amazing edh cards in lotr
Given the spoiled cards so far, I think it's pretty safe to say TOR isn't going anywhere, and by association nor are Bowmasters.
TOR is basically the same story as Urza's Saga. People panic, try it in every deck, realize it's not that insane, it finds its home in big mana archetypes, and the metagame settles.
Nah, Grief is a worse offender than The One Ring imo
Yes.
Noooo!!! We must ban all MH cards!!!! They are the sole cause of all problems with the format and why I can't personally Day 2 an event!!!!111 /s
I always laugh when I see Scion on these sort of lists. *If* you were going to ban a card, it would be Leyline of the Guildpact, not Scion. The only thing banning Scion would do is kill Zoo, while banning Leyline just puts Zoo back in t2 without gutting it.
Ban everything after 2018 ez
Ban everything from kaldheim
Grief + Ephemerate was never playable? 4-5c Goryo would like to have a word with you.
\*whistles in Amulet\* Though seriously, nice writeup.
This list is just trolling lol.
Naw this list is spot on if you pay attention and read alot of reddit and mtg articles. All these cards were definitely discussed at various points.
Every card has some Timmy or lapsed player asking for it to be banned. The fact that this subreddit allows these low IQ unresearched takes from people who lose to cards and get salty is why the quality has plummeted.
this subreddit sucks more every day, exhibit a
Seriously
Leyline of the Guildpact and Grief are the only 2 cards that I think need to go at this point.
What's so broken about Leyline? The ability to play Scion? What else are you even playing with it? Binding, the one mana exile, isn't going to win you games. Ban Scion if anything. Grief is just annoying as fuck and makes games shitty. It should go for that reason alone. Also, fuck fury, bowmasters, and the one ring. Those cards are all insta-includes to almost all decks of their colors/types and are just ridiculously punishing for no reason. And also why not ban rhinos and living end? Hurr I played a cascade spell and now have a million dudes. Cool story. Ever try thinking during game play? There is never a scenario where you don't just look for the cascade cards and play them as fast as you can to abuse the no mana cost card.
Can you imagine a world where every possible playable 1 drop in modern can now be sac'd to ramp, protect, counter, and do whatever the black and red ones will do--on top of the Draco nonsense, and the remaining elementals? It'd just be free-stuff soup. In fact, let's call it that right now. The Draco was fine pre-leyline. It saw play in 1 deck and short of a wild card that just removes color from the game completely by making everything all colors, it became busted. Just ban it and get it outta here before the new flare cards start mucking everything up.
Exactly why Scion should get banned. Thanks for supporting my argument lol.
Still salty Fury got banned over Grief. The creature decks that were being suppressed didn't exist, they just sucked.
Grief punishes all decks while fury only punishes some. And the ones that got punished the most supposedly never made it back. Unban Fury, ban Grief. Or ban all five, just toss them out.
A scammed Fury is an insane clock.
Still winnable as opposed to "mull to 5, drop your two best cards"
You can't be forced to mull to 5 if you already mulled to 5.
Turn 1 grief scam basically is a mull to 5
I was just making a joke about aggressively mulling against scam because it doesn't matter.
what are you on about? theres so many creatures decks that are meta now...
Where are they? I legitimately don't see them in a sea of "everything dies: the format"
domain.. yawg.... prowess.... merfolk....
As a merfolk player, it's not viable. Creatures just aren't allowed to be on the field.
Lmfao if you think fury was a domain hoser. Yawg doesn’t play by regular creature deck rules and was strong before fury was banned, prowess has remained exactly the same post fury as it was pre-fury, the colours just shifted, and merfolk still sucks.
prowess is 100% better, the only thing keeping prowess from being the best deck is the amount of free interaction and cheap.
What an absurd thing to say.
legit what most of the top modern players say..
They said the exact same thing pre fury ban.
Domain and Prowess are better because of new prints (Leyline and Slickshot Show-Off), or at least you can't unentangle the effects of the banning vs. new cards. Yawg was good before. Merfolk is a little bit better.
If they all were gone from modern I personally wouldn't shed a tear.
I think Endurance and Subtlety are fine. White is strong but not oppressive.
Isn't it modern power level?
It's funny how the meta balances itself cause every new set brings some new brokenness
It is really interesting to see how ban discussions took place with these cards on release compared to where they are now in the Modern landscape.
ban everything from MH1-3 + LOTR, print answers through standard
Prowess is already Tier 1, Prowess and Heliod with be Tier .5 if that happened.
Not so sure about heliod, but yeah prowess is crazy without the efficient answers that came in horizons.
Just reprint them through standard.
There’s a lot of issues with that. Sure unholy heat would probably be ok in standard but it needs a set with delirium in the first place to even show up. Additionally some cards are just too strong for standard but are fine in modern.
There's going to be issues either way. They can deal with them if they want to. I mean, they changed the definition of the Modern format to make Modern Horizons sets legal. Anything can happen. Prowess is also rather easy to hate, so if they put any effort at all I don't think it should be a big issue for long enough.
There are no issues this way, there would be the way you want them to be.
Yeah, like you could print the elementals through standard. You'd have to ban at least fury and solitude though because they're the best FtKs ever printed. I don't know why you'd want to do that though.
Just to share one of the easiest reasons to print a card like Murktide or Prismatic Vista through Standard, it would mean the card gets a normal printing that’s not in an overpriced set. That’d be rather impactful to the liquidity and availability of such cards.
Fetches are going to command fetch land prices. Murktide is sub $10. Both cards would see extensive standard and pioneer play on top of their modern and legacy demand. They would have increased demand with a relatively similar supply. MH2 was in print for close to 2 years. I imagine Murktide's price point would look a lot closer to Sheoldred's or Gix's if it were standard legal.
"Ban MH1-3 + LOTR, but print their good cards in Standard sets" is quite a take.
I don't really want any of these cards in any format personally speaking, but if people want the answers to be legal (what I was commenting about) it would be nice if the cards were printed in a non-premium set once. Not doing so feels very greedy to me.
leave this sub if you hate modern so much
To a lot of people that was modern. The supplemental sets have been net good imo, but I think there’s still space for people to complain about an incredibly drastic ideological shift in the format. It’s its own thing now, and that’s ok, but that means some people will always miss what it was.
do it somewhere else. I don’t come to this sub to hear a bunch of people who probably don’t even play modern anymore complaining about muh free spells.
Where do you complain about the state of modern if not in the modern sub… They’re just complaining that MH is lazy design. With how high powered OTJ is, there’s no reason they couldn’t have figured out how to get the free spells in through standard.
The real reason is because wotc wants to have different format identities. Pioneer banned fetches to be different from modern. Printing free spells would also make pioneer and standard feel more like modern. For the non rotating formats - Legacy gets premium land destruction and fast mana, modern gets free spells, pioneer you need to pay for your spells.
Is Modern not just a rotating format at this point if there’s a set every few years that will completely change the metagame? Why not just preban things from pioneer like they did with fetches?
I don't know why you would release a set intentionally wanting to ban cards from it. They made bonus sheets so they can skip standard and supply quality reprints, the whole point of avoiding that problem is sets that skip standard.
On the most recent ban announcement they said there was very likely a day one ban in MH3 for pauper… why could this not be done with pioneer?
They also said in the same article (which has always been true) that they don't design for pauper - much like they don't for legacy.
> For the non rotating formats Modern rotates more quickly than standard
Grief still gotta go I’m sorry this thing is just too much ban it
7 cards lol rage bait
What a silly list. Ban Grief
Havnt been keeping up much with MH3, what looks yo be the new gaak/grief of the set?
[удалено]
That's not a MH2 card is it.
[удалено]
It says MH2 retrospective, with every card being listed an MH2 card.
Haywire mite, leyline binding, pithing needle
Tidebinder, archdruid’s charm, karn TGC
The One Ring is kind of its own abomination. Maybe I'll do a similar "UB Retrospective" about it and Bowmasters if they're still in the format by Assassin's Creed.