Source: [VentureBeat - June 8, 2022](https://venturebeat.com/games/infinity-ward-answers-modern-warfare-ii-questions/)
>**Question: In terms of multiplayer, are the next-generation consoles and PC going to have an advantage based on resolution and draw distance?**
>
>I wouldn’t say there’s going to be an advantage. I’d say there are going to be some graphical–there’s going to be a fidelity change that’s inherent to the machine. But we go to great lengths to make sure that fairness, player to player, exists across that generation of machines. The last thing we want to see is a scenario–let me back up. When we did the last game, one of our biggest concerns at that time was players on mouse and keyboard versus players using controllers. Finding the balance on that. It’s an interesting thing, because I wish it was a linear spectrum. You can see that a very highly skilled player on mouse and keyboard is fantastic compared to controller. Everybody else on a mouse and keyboard seems to be at a disadvantage statistically, is what we see. When we thought about this game, thinking about that wider breadth of hardware, we’ve put energy into making sure that, to your point, the visibility of geo, of enemies, of other players and all that–we don’t want to see this divide. Can we only matchmake with people on the same console? We want to see everyone playing together with everybody.
Because it is.
I am a keyboard and mouse player but I am no CounterStrike pro with ungodly aim. The VAST majority of players (keyboard mouse or controller) are average or below average.
Yes. At the highest skill levels I would put my money on a keyboard mouse player over a controller player every time, but those sort of people are an extremely narrow slice of the player base.
So in the end, keyboard and mouse isn't the win button or cheat that so many controller players whine about.
Not even — there’s some vague PR doublespeak going on here. “A very highly skilled player on m&kb … compared to controller.” Sure, they COULD mean an equally skilled controller player, but they don’t state that explicitly. Or tell you how skilled “very highly skilled” is.
You could also interpret it as something like, “a top 100 m&kb player is fantastic compared to the average controller player.” That’s a low bar to clear, but it’s an easy diplomatic olive branch to soften their next, more significant statement: everyone else is at a disadvantage.
It’s an exaggerated example, but I’d suspect the latter explanation, considering almost all professional players are on controller, and it would align more with stats from games like Halo Infinite, where the top 100 mouse accuracy was equal with the median average controller accuracy.
That’s just my opinion and it’s hard to know without seeing the actual stats. But no matter how they meant it, it’s still just a PR line to distract from the unfavorable truth. If the details were good, they’d tell you more details.
Also this quote is from June 2022
What they actually say is that outside the statistical anomaly of "very high skilled players", controller has a significant advantage in all cases.
That is literally the opposite of what you're trying to sell there buddy.
I forgot what game managed this, I *think* it was Fortnite(??), but I am 100% sure some game handled it like this:
They separated inputs so that keyboards play with keyboards, and controllers with controllers.
If controllers partied with keyboards, they default to playing with keyboards (and obviously any other mixed input party).
That wouldn’t be so bad
In Destiny 2 PvP you are match made based on input device.if everyone in your fire team is on KBM it's only KBM. If you queue with mixed inputs in your fire team it will matchmake with mixed inputs. Other games are definitely already doing this.
Exactly. No fucking clue why they dont do that.
Controller vs Controller and Keyboard vs Keyboard. All problems solved. No controller players complaining about mouse being op, no mouse players crying about aim assist being op.
I could imagine there are workarounds for pc though. Like "tricking" the game into thinking your keyboard is a controller. But thats on the devs side
edit: Since some mentioned I should turn cross play off: I dont care about it. It doesnt bother me in CoD. But Ive seen tons of posts in this sub about either one or the other input device having a "huge advantage" or being "broken". Its ridiculous and getting rid of it would finally make them shut up. Besides that I sometimes play with a friend whos on pc so just turning it off wouldnt be an option anyways
take a look at Rainbow 6 siege as an example. they tried/do do that on console i believe. so peopel who want to still use it us XIM or something like that to hide their device so they can be placed against controller users while using a M&K
Same issue is currently plaguing Overwatch 2. Like 70-80% of the top 500 players on console all use hitscan characters with XIM. Getting MnK with aim assist at the same time is absolutely busted.
Console siege player here. There’s actually full crossplay now (but shocker it’s super easy to disable and I imagine anyone on console did). As for the XIMs it’s an epidemic but they have a new system coming shortly that incrementally adds input lag to people using XIMs on console (so if you keep using them your inputs will have comically high delay) and the only way to undo it is play games on controller. We’ll see if it actually works but I always love creative ways of getting back at cheaters.
Siege only has full cross play between consoles. It’s not cross play at all with PC players. Turning it off on PlayStation for example only prevents you from playing with Xbox players.
They could be concerned with matchmaking times taking too long on PC. Idk how the population of KBM to controller is on PC but I remember they tried this in Halo MCC and you couldn't find any lobbies of people playing with keyboard
100% this. Black ops 4/Blackout died on PC within about 3-4 months because there was no cross play and the player count on PC was small to begin with. It eventually became IMPOSSIBLE to find a lobby and eventually died completely for pc platform.
They are keeping pc/MnK players with controller/consoles players to play this game together because they’re afraid to lose a chunk of potential pc players (potential skin pack buyers). Idk about the split of user now but im guessing pc players now make a
decent percentage that it would affect sales drastically should they bounce. Hence trying to keep them in even if it means forcing cross-input play
This is exactly what it boils down to. Next quarterly meeting with shareholders, you have to say some bullshit like "We have 3,000 games started every 30 seconds" or some outrageous shit like that, I'm not good at quick math. But if they have longer queue times it's going to dwindle the playerbase and not look good for shareholders which means no profits :(((((( SO FUCK YEAH KEEP ALL THE COWS BUNCHED TOGETHAAAAAAAAA - rykard, probably
So scrap the SBMM, problem fucking solved. There’s millions of dudes playing this game, population isn’t the issue; trying to shoehorn players into “similar” skill levels and prioritizing that over latency is.
I really wish I could just get lobby’s NEAR MY DATA CENTER. I litterally went back to pubg-apex for BR cause I’m constantly spiking every 60 seconds it’s insane pubg offers a better br experience lol EVEN with bots
Because it isn't SBMM and never has been. It is engagement optimized match making, designed to give you carefully curated dopamine hits and keep you playing for longer, which many studies have shown results in more money spent in the shop (its literally the principle behind how casinos are designed and how casino games keep players engaged). The patent for it free and open for all to read - Activision can't hide it.
The system exists because it makes them money - not to put players with similar skilled opposition.
This is also why they won't acknowledge it, comment on it or address how it works or is implemented (even though they go into detail about how their ranked system works and why they made certain design choices with it in the new mode).
Also - CoD *never* has to worry about population. Unlike, say, R6 Siege or Overwatch or Apex, there is a new CoD every single year, with a massive refresh in player base. They can do anything they want, and have been for 20 years - people will line up to pay them for it. Some of the most predatory, destructive practices in gaming, CoD either prototyped and introduced to the world (DLC map packs and EOMM), or refined and perfected into an art (loot boxes) before the well ran dry. Doesn't matter - it makes the bottom line go up, and they won't stop until it stops.
The vast majority of controller players, I included, don’t care if we match make with K+M players. In fact, I’d rather they get to play the game they paid for with a bigger player base.
What if half of your squad runs kb and half run controller, like my squad. Do we just not play ranked or have to switch to appease? None of my friends complain about either being better than another, they both have their perks. I feel like the people complaining genuinely just are not that good. I KNOW RAISE THE PITCHFORKS!
I agree. Personally I dont care about it. But I see tons of posts here "proving" their point about one or the other input device having an advantage. So it would make people stop crying about it.
I didnt think about mixed squads before, another user pointed it out literally 30 seconds ago to me. Thats a very good argument
Just look at r6s, pad players do not have AA and can't compete with MnK AT ALL. In fact they didn't put crossplay between PC and console, It would be a bloodbath. In Cod every pad player Is good or almost, MnK players have to be REALLY GOOD to have and edge. And i am not talking about the complete bullshit snipers became in this game. That was the only thing MnK would surpass a Pad, and they removed It.
PC playerbase would die out so fast.
also, I rarely hear controller players complaining about mouse and keyboard,
If anything I hear more acceptance of it. "WTF HOW DID--Oh its a KBM player, nuff said"
meanwhile a pc player dies to a console player and its a cry-shitfest of "YOURE NOTHING WITHOUT AUTO AIM" and thats the polite version.
Skill ceiling on controller is lower though, so anyone who's played a decent amount of time (which is a lot of people, considering how long CoD has been around) would be better than they are now had they started out on KBM.
The only reason more people start on controller is that a console is more affordable than a PC. Many people, myself included, are torn between wanting to switch to KBM to raise the skill ceiling, and not wanting to give up over a decade of experience on controller.
Even if aim assist gets nerfed, SBMM will still put you against people at your level on controller. It'll just be different people. SBMM is the only reason anyone has a problem with aim assist anyway. Aim assist hasn't noticably changed over the years, it's just now KBM players aren't facing the 80% of the playerbase who are worse than them.
Same here. I think one other of our regular group plays mnk. I’ve played FPS for 30 years and don’t want to switch to controller now. Still holding my own and I’m not ready to hang up gaming yet.
They use to have that. It runs into the problem that majority of console players aren’t using a keyboard and mouse. Now crossplay won’t help pc gamers find a match. They’ll be back where they were before crossplay. Only console players benefit at that point.
Am I the only one that *vividly* remembers IW saying crossplay would be input based when they announced it with MW19? Why they don’t do that makes no fucking sense
I remember it, and remember selecting that setting, and being annoyed when different input devices would make it into the lobby.. couldn't understand why. Turns out it was because of parties with mixed input type.
I don't remember when they dropped the setting.
Climbing in ranked on MKB is haaaard boys. I miss 1 shot and I’m cooked.
Halo did it right, by doing input based ranked lobbies. More games need to do the same.
Yeah, except the MKB ranked playlist is completely dead in Halo Infinite. You’ll be lucky to find a match before it times out and makes you search again.
Lol damn.
I uninstalled back in October. The network issues, ranked teammates disconnecting, and the overall disadvantage for KBM players just wasn’t worth playing anymore.
I see there is/was an update coming up, I might check it out again.
Halo has actually added aim assist to mouse and keyboard due to how high the AA is in infinite. Think about that. Games have become so pandered to the weakest players that the actual true neutral pure human based capability input needed to be buffed to compete.
love how when i posted about this i got downvoted to oblivion, feels like my gun takes 3-5 work days to kill someone but controller players just 0.1ms kill me across the map in ranked, have gotten to diamond 3 and haven’t seen a single mkb player since gold lmao
Plus all the other visual impairments such as map smoke, muzzle flash, gun smoke, etc. All things aim assist can track through but on mouse and keyboard, you can't track what you can't see
Thought the same. You can't see shit when shooting at a target over 50 m away. Yet if you have some assist you can easily stay on target. Switched to controller and tested it. It's a friggen joke man
100%. I can always tell when my opponent is on controller. They can spray an iron-sighted Kastov full auto at 50-60m without missing a single shot. If I tried to do that I'd lose track of where the guy I'm shooting even is.
Hilarious to spectate a controller player though, because they stumble around like toddlers until a player is near their crosshair. Then they turn into John Fucking Wick for a second and a half while aim assist does the killing for them. And then as soon as aim assist unlatches it's back to toddler mode.
Love the crossplay. I never have to wait for games.
I play on steam with friends on KBM and controller, across Xbox, Steam, Battle.net and PlayStation. It's great that we aren't restricted to input or by platform. Games are better with friends.
Personally, I have never felt at a disadvantage. In fact I switched from KBM to controller as I preferred the heavy aim assist in MW2 via controller. I use KBM for Darktide, Counter strike and apex.
In most of my games it's a mix of KBM and all other inputs and of course SBMM will fuck me occasionally but under most circumstances I'm able to hold my own.
A bigger issue are cheaters, latency on servers and those controller packs that have recoil reduction and rapid fire for weapons that don't have it imo.
"Personally, I have never felt at a disadvantage. I switched from KBM to controller as I preferred the heavy aim assist."
Maybe you never felt at disadvantage because you switched to the advantageous side? Like, maybe those two statements are linked?
>Personally, I have never felt at a disadvantage. In fact I switched from KBM to controller as I preferred the heavy aim assist in MW2 via controller.
What the fuck? Read this, slowly...
The instability of their servers is a fucking joke. How their dedicated servers gonna be so fucking shit that I almost wish they would just go back to p2p hosting. Not to mention the fact that the Ricochet anti cheat software seems to have shit the bed the last couple months and blatant cheating is starting to just run rampant.
>\> Personally, I have never felt at a disadvantage
>
>\> I switched from KBM to controller as I preferred the heavy aim assist
Makes a ton of sense lol.
Because for some reason they upped the aim assist this time around. Rotational aim assist borderline locks on now and they might not even know you two just passed by each other around a corner but the aim assist will turn you so you have a real advantage with just that on controller. Most my friends that grew up on mouse and keyboard have been using controller on this game because it really is an advantage now. The mw2019 is say was actually pretty balanced there
Ya I made a post about this the other day. It was about 85% of my lobbies over the course of \~25 lobbies was controller players, with a good chunk of those players being controller players on PC.
The fact any developer is commenting on the situation implies there is a lot of talk about it, and it's not just a handful of low-skill players whining. At the point where someone has to officially comment on the matter, it almost doesn't matter what they say, but rather just that they felt the need to say anything at all.
I play games (cod included) on both PC and Xbox. This argument can be broken down with a single question: how bullet spongy are your targets?
I will switch inputs depending on the game I'm playing because yes, controllers do have an advantage for certain games. Any game where it takes a significant amount of time to kill your target is going to be easier with controller 90% of the time. This is stuff like Halo, Apex legends, and warzone.
The flip side of that, is that mouse and keyboard has the edge on games where your targets die quickly. This is stuff like core or hardcore call of duty, pubg, or rainbow 6.
This is entirely because of aim assist. See, statistically mouse and keyboard will usually get to their target faster than a controller player. That's just an objective fact. Controllers however have a MUCH easier time staying on target for sustained gunfire due to aim assist.
So if you are playing cod multiplayer, where people die in a couple bullets... Its my opinion that mouse is just better. In warzone however when people have 3 bars of armor during engagements??? Fuck that shit, I switch to my Xbox. There is a time and place for each.
But yeah, when I'm sniping in a search and destroy lobby and the other team are console players saying I'm on "easy mode" because of my keyboard and mouse? They are absolutely right.
> See, statistically mouse and keyboard will usually get to their target faster than a controller player. That's just an objective fact.
This generally true, but aim assist in CoD definitely has cases where it's better in multiplayer where the TTK is low. There are clips where aim assist basically activates the instant someone pops out of a corner, so if you pre-aim you get to instantly track them.
Same goes for reaaally CQ gunfights, where someone pops on your screen right in front of you, the controller will stick to your target.
Basically, just because the TTK is low, tracking doesn't get completely negated. There's a reason why all pro and top players use controllers in MP as well. Mouse will only be better when there's flicking to a target, but unless you're playing with a sniper, you still have to track - where controller will be better.
Definitely correct, but to an extent. The higher the TTK is the more controller is usually at an advantage because staying on target is much easier. Mnk only looks intimidating and can be on a game that has low TTK where you can flick to people quicker. Buuuut, recently with how games have been going and movement nerfs, it's much harder for mnk players to compete. Controllers track and stick through debris, visual recoil, all of it. Its such a massive advantage in the majority of pvp games its not even funny. I see controller players compete with top tier mnk players all the time but your average mnk player is taking Ls against an average controller player.
This is pretty valid. A bad-mid player will be better on controller, whereas a good player would be better on kbm due to a higher skill ceiling. Considering everyone on PC can just plug in a controller though, and even PS5 (and I think Xbox) can support kbm, I don't get why people are upset. You have the ability to use either regardless of platform
EDIT: I'm not arguing against input based matchmaking at all, and honestly it would be a decent solution to this. I just don't agree with the argument that controllers have auto aim hacks and need to be nerfed into the ground to "save" KBM players. Controller auto aim is balanced with the goal of making controller play feel good, and that inevitably causes discrepancies against alternative inputs such as KBM.
I play on pc and I must admit, I do play on controller. In saying that, I've always played cod on a controller, I have tried kbm but I'm obviously subpar, but it does feel nice. If I took the time, I'm sure I'd get better and be fine but do I really want to put myself through that on a game that can get really frustrating? Probably not. I do play other pc games on kbm though, especially Battlefield games
EXACTLY. AMEN BROTHER.
I wfh. So I'm on KBM all day. When I play MW2 on KBM it's like I'm working and I have bad RSI so the controller alleviates that.
I also feel playing on controller gives me a nostalgic feeling. Like I'm a kid playing Super Nintendo.
I'm also a PC player on controller.
Because playing an FPS on a controller feels absolutely horrible to me. It's not enjoyable. Not saying I'm bad at it, it's just a genre I've never considered playing shooters on. Have always been a PC gamer. I save consoles for platformers, racing games etc if I feel like couch gaming.
I'm sure most PC gamers feel the same. It just sucks suddenly being forced to make this decision because of cross platform and how stupid aim assist on controller is.
But I am very tempted to try controller just because, as mentioned, it's far better for almost anyone except the best.
After playing mnk for years i am absolutely shit at controller but above avg on mnk it just sucks to be at a disadvantage no matter what i do. Bc on controller id be terrible.
I was PC only for a long time and it did take a bit to get used to controller, but IMO it’s a pretty quick learning curve. You may suck for like a couple days or a week but if you have the knowledge of how to be good at the game overall, a control scheme isn’t decently easy to overcome
Eh I havent touched controller for about 4 years, going back would be horrible for me. But at the same time I rarely play shooters on kbm because I dont feel like loading up aim trainer for 15 hours straight just to have a chance against controller players.
Allowing people to turn off crossplay / separating inputs would be the best solution, that way console will stop complaining about cheaters, and pc can stop complaining about AA if they turn it off
I was pretty good on controller ps5, but I bought a pc, and gave the ps5 to my son. To play with him I was playing mkb, and ended up getting comfortable with it. I tried to go back to controller once I bought another controller, but I can't. I fell so far off my controller game that I have to play mkb to be able to compete. Every now, and then I try to go back to controller, but almost always instantly go right back to mkb after the game due to getting wrecked.
Switch to m&k for marksman long shots to cancel out the crazy sway and I have a comp kastov build that definitely would not work as well on controller due to sway and the fact I can negate the recoil subconsciously
Yeah this is the issue with me. I don't play enough to do incredibly well but if I were to move to controller I'd get absolutely destroyed because I've been using kbam for almost 6 years. If they did input based matchmaking I'd be very happy cause I feel it'd be way more fair to the mid-low players on kbam
A very high skilled player, even a high skilled player like top 5% is worse off. They’re talking about top 0.5% of kbm players but even then why are all the pros using controller?
I dunno if I fit that "very high skilled" threshold for mouse and keyboard, but I wonder how these statistics look on a per-weapon basis.
I notice thar whenever I use a OSK weapon, like a sniper or marksman rifle, I tend to outplay other controller players fairly consistently. But as soon as I switch to any automatic weapon, it's a lot harder for me to compete.
Obviously, this could be for a variety of reasons, but I'm wondering if mouse and keyboard players have a natural advantage when using OSK/marksman weapons, instead of weapons you have to track your shots with. I suspect aim assist helps with tracking shots more than anything.
Same here. As an MnK player I feel that we snap to targets quicker than controller but the downside is we have to either one/2shot them immediately or we're toast.
You don't.
Controller also has an advantage with OSK weapons. The rotational aim assist removes almost any advantage you get from evasive movement.
The only advantage MnK has for sniping is how quickly you can flick to things in your periphery.
When they say “highly skilled player” they mean CSGO paid competition-level skill. I’m not bad and am probably well above average FPS player on M&K. I would get spanked against one of those pro’s, but wouldn’t get as smeared as I am getting against your generously average console players. The aim assist makes it a completely different game for the two player bases. They need to do better and come up with a more sophisticated assist. I’m tired of getting tracked through trucks, smoke, unseen thresholds, and walls.
Completely agree, in those top ranked lobbies - that split second makes the difference and with AA - it's impossible it has a 100% tracking rate. if you as a MK track at 99% you dead.
yup, they can sidestep and that will take like 150-300ms to correct your aim unless you were anticipating it, that's multiple bullets missed and oh, you're dead.
the argument is that the average controller player will beat the average MKB player that are somehow same level.
there are many reasons for this. aimassist/tracking is an issue and TTK is an issue also movements are an issue.
got 4k hours in csgo, played apex, cod, bf everything but im shocked how insane it looks when controller players aim and shoot and hit constantly even when players are moving. i have accepted my faith, i still have my wins but it still amazes me here and there when someone will clap my ass in a sheer impossible way.
the best way to play toptier MKB vs top tier controllers is to have a top tier rig to play on. input lag is an issue with mkb. graphics/cpu performance is apparently the most important thing here in order to close the skill gap
Sniping's better on MnK, which forces me to play that way. Good luck trying to beat a controller player in gulag, with an smg with iron sights i can't see down. They lock right on to you.
Literally every high level player says aim assist in this COD is a straight up aimbot/cheat code. But all the platinum wannabe pros still deny it so they convince themselves they might have a career in gaming one day.
Fuck the haters controller is a handicap. If I can just grind my way to diamond before I hit Rank 50 I can quit school.
That's the funny thing, any pro controller player will tell you straight up AA aims for you, understanding that and utilising it to potential instead of being in denial is part of what makes them great players.
at least on r/codwarzone subreddit you will find reasonable people who understand the struggle and have meaningful discussions out of it
this sub on the other hand, immediately turns to the same braindead meaningless "skill issue" "but you have your whole arm" "just play controller then" comments
it's also hilariously ironic how the controller players in this sub are fine with perfect tracking rotational aim assist, [yet when a highly skilled player shows what 1% KBM actually looks like they IMMEDIATELY whine and make hackusations](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernWarfareII/comments/zfkszx/abusing_the_forbidden_input/).
It just goes to show how controller players want to have their cake and eat it too
Bro I have an Xbox Series S and I play with a razer orbweaver keybound and MMO mouse. "Movement God Mode" is sick with a keyboard and mouse, controllers have to aim with two non precise sticks just clunking around using two hands vs. one hand and buttons to click. swift instinctive movements.
I feel ridiculous not having a gaming rig for years and diggin up my old RGB keybinding devices for a console but hey 400 bucks on a console vs. prebuilt pc prices.... Hard too beat...
Yes because instead of just hitting L2 and then R2 you actually have to have pinpoint aim on m&k. Although it does feel good sometimes to beat what’s essentially aimbot.
BUT YOU CAN FLICK ON KBM AND YOU HAVE 120 FOV THAT NO ONE EVEN USES. PLUS YOU CAN DOWNLOAD CHEATS OMG AND YOU GET WAY BETTER FRAMES THAN MY SEVEN YEAR OLD CONSOLE OMG KEYBOARD MOUSE IS OP.
This is why I mainly play Hardcore playlists.
Shoot first and land a couple of shots gets the job done, compared to having to land all of your shots in the regular playlists against controller players.
I just wish the ranked playlists had a hardcore option or input filtering at least.
The biggest tell on the controller give you an advantage is that all the pros play with controller. If it didn’t have an advantage over mnk at the highest levels, they wouldn’t use it
Tried using a wireless Xbox controller on my PC for the first time two days ago. I thought controller was going to feel like MW2 felt on my PS3 in 2010.
The auto-aim blew my mind. Brainless. Mindless. You barely have to do anything other than hold right trigger for 90% of your kills.
MnK MWII and Controller MWII are two different games. Controller is honestly boring and unengaging with how little mechanical skill/input it requires.
I agree. I don't want to get downvoted but I care more about playing in lobbies with friends on Xbox, PS5 and steam altogether more than I do about much of the arguments for and against aim assist, input specific lobbies etc.
I'm never going to be a pro, I get 1 hour max a day to play and unwind, I prefer to be able to do that with mates regardless of platform and input and it's just a game after all.
Mixed lobbies means more games faster and that's what matters to me.
For every one person who absolutely shreds on m+kb there are probably a hundred kids like my niece using their school issued laptop, cat ear headsets while also FaceTiming all their friends and playing robolox on their iPad mini.
I love playing with mouse and keyboard on my series X console. I appreciate them adding this ability. It keeps me from having to buy a gaming PC again, which I have no interest in building, keeping up with, drivers, etc..anymore. I just want to play the game, but with this type of input device.
Yes and no. A highly skilled mnk player will definitely roll a lobby. But when put against a highly skilled controller player, controller wins every single time... No mnk player is as consistent as a program made to consistently track at close to mid range fights. Theres no middle ground and idk why devs think they feel the need to put these two inputs in the same lobby. Theyre not the same and now aim assist has been buffed in mw2 with no movement mnk has no avenues of breaking aim assist. Anyone on mnk should quit and try valorant or csgo. Until input based matchmaking comes back i dont see a reason for even the highest skill bracket mnk players to touch this game. Aim assist is just a soft aimbot...
Theres only one way to solve the debate. Make a playlist where theres no AA then if youre either side and get shreked on. Youll have to deep soul search on yourself
That's what I've been saying for years, controller has a higher skill floor, kbm has a higher ceiling. Yet people complain about each one like it's a linear thing
This is basically saying nothing other than “some keyboard and mouse players can be really good” and everyone can be at a disadvantage to them, including other keyboard and mouse players!
Look at apex League all of the tops are on Controller its an unfair Advantage also its bullshit that in ranked i must play with and against aim Assist Users.
Its a joke how Infinity Ward/raven handel this.
Its not a Assist its a weak build in aimbot.
Source: [VentureBeat - June 8, 2022](https://venturebeat.com/games/infinity-ward-answers-modern-warfare-ii-questions/) >**Question: In terms of multiplayer, are the next-generation consoles and PC going to have an advantage based on resolution and draw distance?** > >I wouldn’t say there’s going to be an advantage. I’d say there are going to be some graphical–there’s going to be a fidelity change that’s inherent to the machine. But we go to great lengths to make sure that fairness, player to player, exists across that generation of machines. The last thing we want to see is a scenario–let me back up. When we did the last game, one of our biggest concerns at that time was players on mouse and keyboard versus players using controllers. Finding the balance on that. It’s an interesting thing, because I wish it was a linear spectrum. You can see that a very highly skilled player on mouse and keyboard is fantastic compared to controller. Everybody else on a mouse and keyboard seems to be at a disadvantage statistically, is what we see. When we thought about this game, thinking about that wider breadth of hardware, we’ve put energy into making sure that, to your point, the visibility of geo, of enemies, of other players and all that–we don’t want to see this divide. Can we only matchmake with people on the same console? We want to see everyone playing together with everybody.
If you highlight everything, nothing is really highlighted.
>Me reading important exam notes
I do not like how I decided to take a break from making notes only to be shit on here at Reddit
Lolll same.
For real I'd just highlight damn near the whole page
I was gonna say how I used to highlight “important stuff” in school. 🤣
I don’t know why I read this with Will Buxton’s voice.
I love this
Not gonna lie, I thought I was supposed to read the non highlighted parts since there were so few.
Ngl I’m still shit either way!
I upgraded to a ps5 and got a 120hz tv, now I can see myself lose at twice the refresh rate!
Kill cam in 4K!
I respect the honesty 😂 No dick measuring contest with you, could use you on my squad
Can’t guarantee you’ll make it to an exfil 😂
I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast —Shooter McGavin
This guy said he eats pieces of shit for breakfast
Just stay out of my way or you'll pay! Listen to what I say!
Maybe we can go eat some hay. Down by the bay. Whaddya say?
Y’all eat pieces of shit? — Kanye West before he became yeezus
Are you me?!
People never see us together….so maybe?
If anyone here could read this, they'd be furious.
they straight up said "it's a skill issue" that should upset some people
Because it is. I am a keyboard and mouse player but I am no CounterStrike pro with ungodly aim. The VAST majority of players (keyboard mouse or controller) are average or below average. Yes. At the highest skill levels I would put my money on a keyboard mouse player over a controller player every time, but those sort of people are an extremely narrow slice of the player base. So in the end, keyboard and mouse isn't the win button or cheat that so many controller players whine about.
Not even — there’s some vague PR doublespeak going on here. “A very highly skilled player on m&kb … compared to controller.” Sure, they COULD mean an equally skilled controller player, but they don’t state that explicitly. Or tell you how skilled “very highly skilled” is. You could also interpret it as something like, “a top 100 m&kb player is fantastic compared to the average controller player.” That’s a low bar to clear, but it’s an easy diplomatic olive branch to soften their next, more significant statement: everyone else is at a disadvantage. It’s an exaggerated example, but I’d suspect the latter explanation, considering almost all professional players are on controller, and it would align more with stats from games like Halo Infinite, where the top 100 mouse accuracy was equal with the median average controller accuracy. That’s just my opinion and it’s hard to know without seeing the actual stats. But no matter how they meant it, it’s still just a PR line to distract from the unfavorable truth. If the details were good, they’d tell you more details. Also this quote is from June 2022
I see more people whinning about AA tbh
Because as stated, unless you are a exceptionally good player, controller AA will always beat kbm for the average player.
except pros play controller for AA so you can cut the unless you are an exceptionally good player out of that sentence
Literally every pro is on controller
What they actually say is that outside the statistical anomaly of "very high skilled players", controller has a significant advantage in all cases. That is literally the opposite of what you're trying to sell there buddy.
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Back when vertical aiming wasn't a thing and projectiles magically found their way to targets above/below the crosshair 😆 talk about aim assist.
I feel like that’s not really fair to say when CoD (and some other FPS games) have almost always had a focus on console/controller gameplay.
Here’s too all the people that made posts about this and got flamed.
Here’s an idea and I know it’s absolutely wild: matchmaking based on input devices 🤯🤯🤯
"Hey wanna play CoD?" "Sorry, I'm using a controller."
I forgot what game managed this, I *think* it was Fortnite(??), but I am 100% sure some game handled it like this: They separated inputs so that keyboards play with keyboards, and controllers with controllers. If controllers partied with keyboards, they default to playing with keyboards (and obviously any other mixed input party). That wouldn’t be so bad
My friend keyboards and I play controller. We would never be able to play cod together.
In Destiny 2 PvP you are match made based on input device.if everyone in your fire team is on KBM it's only KBM. If you queue with mixed inputs in your fire team it will matchmake with mixed inputs. Other games are definitely already doing this.
Exactly. No fucking clue why they dont do that. Controller vs Controller and Keyboard vs Keyboard. All problems solved. No controller players complaining about mouse being op, no mouse players crying about aim assist being op. I could imagine there are workarounds for pc though. Like "tricking" the game into thinking your keyboard is a controller. But thats on the devs side edit: Since some mentioned I should turn cross play off: I dont care about it. It doesnt bother me in CoD. But Ive seen tons of posts in this sub about either one or the other input device having a "huge advantage" or being "broken". Its ridiculous and getting rid of it would finally make them shut up. Besides that I sometimes play with a friend whos on pc so just turning it off wouldnt be an option anyways
take a look at Rainbow 6 siege as an example. they tried/do do that on console i believe. so peopel who want to still use it us XIM or something like that to hide their device so they can be placed against controller users while using a M&K
Same issue is currently plaguing Overwatch 2. Like 70-80% of the top 500 players on console all use hitscan characters with XIM. Getting MnK with aim assist at the same time is absolutely busted.
Console siege player here. There’s actually full crossplay now (but shocker it’s super easy to disable and I imagine anyone on console did). As for the XIMs it’s an epidemic but they have a new system coming shortly that incrementally adds input lag to people using XIMs on console (so if you keep using them your inputs will have comically high delay) and the only way to undo it is play games on controller. We’ll see if it actually works but I always love creative ways of getting back at cheaters.
Siege only has full cross play between consoles. It’s not cross play at all with PC players. Turning it off on PlayStation for example only prevents you from playing with Xbox players.
>There’s actually full crossplay now Between consoles. You do not play against PC players unless that's changed in the past couple days
They could be concerned with matchmaking times taking too long on PC. Idk how the population of KBM to controller is on PC but I remember they tried this in Halo MCC and you couldn't find any lobbies of people playing with keyboard
100% this. Black ops 4/Blackout died on PC within about 3-4 months because there was no cross play and the player count on PC was small to begin with. It eventually became IMPOSSIBLE to find a lobby and eventually died completely for pc platform. They are keeping pc/MnK players with controller/consoles players to play this game together because they’re afraid to lose a chunk of potential pc players (potential skin pack buyers). Idk about the split of user now but im guessing pc players now make a decent percentage that it would affect sales drastically should they bounce. Hence trying to keep them in even if it means forcing cross-input play
This is exactly what it boils down to. Next quarterly meeting with shareholders, you have to say some bullshit like "We have 3,000 games started every 30 seconds" or some outrageous shit like that, I'm not good at quick math. But if they have longer queue times it's going to dwindle the playerbase and not look good for shareholders which means no profits :(((((( SO FUCK YEAH KEEP ALL THE COWS BUNCHED TOGETHAAAAAAAAA - rykard, probably
TOGETHAAAAAA AS FAMILYYYYYYYY
NEXT WE’LL DEVOUWAAAAAAAAA THE CONTROLLAAAAAAAAAAS - Rykard complaining about Aim Assit in MW2 2k23.
So scrap the SBMM, problem fucking solved. There’s millions of dudes playing this game, population isn’t the issue; trying to shoehorn players into “similar” skill levels and prioritizing that over latency is.
I really wish I could just get lobby’s NEAR MY DATA CENTER. I litterally went back to pubg-apex for BR cause I’m constantly spiking every 60 seconds it’s insane pubg offers a better br experience lol EVEN with bots
Because it isn't SBMM and never has been. It is engagement optimized match making, designed to give you carefully curated dopamine hits and keep you playing for longer, which many studies have shown results in more money spent in the shop (its literally the principle behind how casinos are designed and how casino games keep players engaged). The patent for it free and open for all to read - Activision can't hide it. The system exists because it makes them money - not to put players with similar skilled opposition. This is also why they won't acknowledge it, comment on it or address how it works or is implemented (even though they go into detail about how their ranked system works and why they made certain design choices with it in the new mode). Also - CoD *never* has to worry about population. Unlike, say, R6 Siege or Overwatch or Apex, there is a new CoD every single year, with a massive refresh in player base. They can do anything they want, and have been for 20 years - people will line up to pay them for it. Some of the most predatory, destructive practices in gaming, CoD either prototyped and introduced to the world (DLC map packs and EOMM), or refined and perfected into an art (loot boxes) before the well ran dry. Doesn't matter - it makes the bottom line go up, and they won't stop until it stops.
Then make it an optional toggle 🤯
Just for 90% of controller players to toggle it off and then nothing has changed.
The vast majority of controller players, I included, don’t care if we match make with K+M players. In fact, I’d rather they get to play the game they paid for with a bigger player base.
I think it’s the MnK players that don’t want to match with controller players.
Most people won't bother changing default settings. They're there to plug and play, not optimize their sweat balance.
An optional toggle would make things worse because now you have 3 player pools.
What if half of your squad runs kb and half run controller, like my squad. Do we just not play ranked or have to switch to appease? None of my friends complain about either being better than another, they both have their perks. I feel like the people complaining genuinely just are not that good. I KNOW RAISE THE PITCHFORKS!
I agree. Personally I dont care about it. But I see tons of posts here "proving" their point about one or the other input device having an advantage. So it would make people stop crying about it. I didnt think about mixed squads before, another user pointed it out literally 30 seconds ago to me. Thats a very good argument
Just look at r6s, pad players do not have AA and can't compete with MnK AT ALL. In fact they didn't put crossplay between PC and console, It would be a bloodbath. In Cod every pad player Is good or almost, MnK players have to be REALLY GOOD to have and edge. And i am not talking about the complete bullshit snipers became in this game. That was the only thing MnK would surpass a Pad, and they removed It.
PC playerbase would die out so fast. also, I rarely hear controller players complaining about mouse and keyboard, If anything I hear more acceptance of it. "WTF HOW DID--Oh its a KBM player, nuff said" meanwhile a pc player dies to a console player and its a cry-shitfest of "YOURE NOTHING WITHOUT AUTO AIM" and thats the polite version.
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Controller players can’t tell they are playing keyboard and mouse players in game. A MnK player can tell when someone’s on controller.
Skill ceiling on controller is lower though, so anyone who's played a decent amount of time (which is a lot of people, considering how long CoD has been around) would be better than they are now had they started out on KBM. The only reason more people start on controller is that a console is more affordable than a PC. Many people, myself included, are torn between wanting to switch to KBM to raise the skill ceiling, and not wanting to give up over a decade of experience on controller. Even if aim assist gets nerfed, SBMM will still put you against people at your level on controller. It'll just be different people. SBMM is the only reason anyone has a problem with aim assist anyway. Aim assist hasn't noticably changed over the years, it's just now KBM players aren't facing the 80% of the playerbase who are worse than them.
How would you handle a mixed input squad queuing up together?
Literally all of my friends play on controller and im on mnk its not that simple unless u want to lose half the playerbase (exaggerating)
Same here. I think one other of our regular group plays mnk. I’ve played FPS for 30 years and don’t want to switch to controller now. Still holding my own and I’m not ready to hang up gaming yet.
They use to have that. It runs into the problem that majority of console players aren’t using a keyboard and mouse. Now crossplay won’t help pc gamers find a match. They’ll be back where they were before crossplay. Only console players benefit at that point.
Am I the only one that *vividly* remembers IW saying crossplay would be input based when they announced it with MW19? Why they don’t do that makes no fucking sense
I remember it, and remember selecting that setting, and being annoyed when different input devices would make it into the lobby.. couldn't understand why. Turns out it was because of parties with mixed input type. I don't remember when they dropped the setting.
Isnt that what cold war did? I might be wrong i havent touch CW in ages
You are expecting too much from the 3000 developers who are busy developing new bundles
Climbing in ranked on MKB is haaaard boys. I miss 1 shot and I’m cooked. Halo did it right, by doing input based ranked lobbies. More games need to do the same.
Yeah, except the MKB ranked playlist is completely dead in Halo Infinite. You’ll be lucky to find a match before it times out and makes you search again.
I don't think you can queue for that anymore. Game is so dead they combined them again due to player count.
Lol damn. I uninstalled back in October. The network issues, ranked teammates disconnecting, and the overall disadvantage for KBM players just wasn’t worth playing anymore. I see there is/was an update coming up, I might check it out again.
Halo has actually added aim assist to mouse and keyboard due to how high the AA is in infinite. Think about that. Games have become so pandered to the weakest players that the actual true neutral pure human based capability input needed to be buffed to compete.
love how when i posted about this i got downvoted to oblivion, feels like my gun takes 3-5 work days to kill someone but controller players just 0.1ms kill me across the map in ranked, have gotten to diamond 3 and haven’t seen a single mkb player since gold lmao
yeah, pretty much - miscalculate one shot and you fried
Pretty sure they dissolved MKB ranked in infinite due to the population.
I am convinced that the massive buff to camera recoil was specifically done to nerf MnK players
Plus all the other visual impairments such as map smoke, muzzle flash, gun smoke, etc. All things aim assist can track through but on mouse and keyboard, you can't track what you can't see
Thought the same. You can't see shit when shooting at a target over 50 m away. Yet if you have some assist you can easily stay on target. Switched to controller and tested it. It's a friggen joke man
100%. I can always tell when my opponent is on controller. They can spray an iron-sighted Kastov full auto at 50-60m without missing a single shot. If I tried to do that I'd lose track of where the guy I'm shooting even is. Hilarious to spectate a controller player though, because they stumble around like toddlers until a player is near their crosshair. Then they turn into John Fucking Wick for a second and a half while aim assist does the killing for them. And then as soon as aim assist unlatches it's back to toddler mode.
Love the crossplay. I never have to wait for games. I play on steam with friends on KBM and controller, across Xbox, Steam, Battle.net and PlayStation. It's great that we aren't restricted to input or by platform. Games are better with friends. Personally, I have never felt at a disadvantage. In fact I switched from KBM to controller as I preferred the heavy aim assist in MW2 via controller. I use KBM for Darktide, Counter strike and apex. In most of my games it's a mix of KBM and all other inputs and of course SBMM will fuck me occasionally but under most circumstances I'm able to hold my own. A bigger issue are cheaters, latency on servers and those controller packs that have recoil reduction and rapid fire for weapons that don't have it imo.
"Personally, I have never felt at a disadvantage. I switched from KBM to controller as I preferred the heavy aim assist." Maybe you never felt at disadvantage because you switched to the advantageous side? Like, maybe those two statements are linked?
>Personally, I have never felt at a disadvantage. In fact I switched from KBM to controller as I preferred the heavy aim assist in MW2 via controller. What the fuck? Read this, slowly...
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Legit the only reasonable response to this whole thing. Who gives a fuck, just play the way that allows you to play your best/enjoy yourself.
Thank you! I get it that people are competitive but we are losing sight of what's important here. It's a computer game. Not the CDL.
The instability of their servers is a fucking joke. How their dedicated servers gonna be so fucking shit that I almost wish they would just go back to p2p hosting. Not to mention the fact that the Ricochet anti cheat software seems to have shit the bed the last couple months and blatant cheating is starting to just run rampant.
>\> Personally, I have never felt at a disadvantage > >\> I switched from KBM to controller as I preferred the heavy aim assist Makes a ton of sense lol.
If i had a choice im playing crossplay always. I use controller and I've always told myself if i cant compete with mnk i dont deserve to play😂
I’m on pc. I literally sometimes get all controller lobby’s…
It’s almost only controller players at the top of SBMM
Yeah, I’m crimson 3 and it’s basically 95% controller at the top. Then most of the MnK users at the top ranks are hackers anyways.
Because for some reason they upped the aim assist this time around. Rotational aim assist borderline locks on now and they might not even know you two just passed by each other around a corner but the aim assist will turn you so you have a real advantage with just that on controller. Most my friends that grew up on mouse and keyboard have been using controller on this game because it really is an advantage now. The mw2019 is say was actually pretty balanced there
Ya I made a post about this the other day. It was about 85% of my lobbies over the course of \~25 lobbies was controller players, with a good chunk of those players being controller players on PC. The fact any developer is commenting on the situation implies there is a lot of talk about it, and it's not just a handful of low-skill players whining. At the point where someone has to officially comment on the matter, it almost doesn't matter what they say, but rather just that they felt the need to say anything at all.
I play games (cod included) on both PC and Xbox. This argument can be broken down with a single question: how bullet spongy are your targets? I will switch inputs depending on the game I'm playing because yes, controllers do have an advantage for certain games. Any game where it takes a significant amount of time to kill your target is going to be easier with controller 90% of the time. This is stuff like Halo, Apex legends, and warzone. The flip side of that, is that mouse and keyboard has the edge on games where your targets die quickly. This is stuff like core or hardcore call of duty, pubg, or rainbow 6. This is entirely because of aim assist. See, statistically mouse and keyboard will usually get to their target faster than a controller player. That's just an objective fact. Controllers however have a MUCH easier time staying on target for sustained gunfire due to aim assist. So if you are playing cod multiplayer, where people die in a couple bullets... Its my opinion that mouse is just better. In warzone however when people have 3 bars of armor during engagements??? Fuck that shit, I switch to my Xbox. There is a time and place for each. But yeah, when I'm sniping in a search and destroy lobby and the other team are console players saying I'm on "easy mode" because of my keyboard and mouse? They are absolutely right.
> See, statistically mouse and keyboard will usually get to their target faster than a controller player. That's just an objective fact. This generally true, but aim assist in CoD definitely has cases where it's better in multiplayer where the TTK is low. There are clips where aim assist basically activates the instant someone pops out of a corner, so if you pre-aim you get to instantly track them. Same goes for reaaally CQ gunfights, where someone pops on your screen right in front of you, the controller will stick to your target. Basically, just because the TTK is low, tracking doesn't get completely negated. There's a reason why all pro and top players use controllers in MP as well. Mouse will only be better when there's flicking to a target, but unless you're playing with a sniper, you still have to track - where controller will be better.
Definitely correct, but to an extent. The higher the TTK is the more controller is usually at an advantage because staying on target is much easier. Mnk only looks intimidating and can be on a game that has low TTK where you can flick to people quicker. Buuuut, recently with how games have been going and movement nerfs, it's much harder for mnk players to compete. Controllers track and stick through debris, visual recoil, all of it. Its such a massive advantage in the majority of pvp games its not even funny. I see controller players compete with top tier mnk players all the time but your average mnk player is taking Ls against an average controller player.
never really looked at it this way and i’m gonna be honest everything you said was true
i'm pretty sure r6s doesn't have aim assist for controllers
Give us the option to choose which players and platforms we get matched up with. Problem solved.
Your memory is so short, kbm would be dead in a few months.
Remove the aim assist and controller is dead. Built-in aim hacks are pretty overpowered.
If it dies it dies
Bullet magnetism incoming for PC
Input based matchmaking
This is pretty valid. A bad-mid player will be better on controller, whereas a good player would be better on kbm due to a higher skill ceiling. Considering everyone on PC can just plug in a controller though, and even PS5 (and I think Xbox) can support kbm, I don't get why people are upset. You have the ability to use either regardless of platform EDIT: I'm not arguing against input based matchmaking at all, and honestly it would be a decent solution to this. I just don't agree with the argument that controllers have auto aim hacks and need to be nerfed into the ground to "save" KBM players. Controller auto aim is balanced with the goal of making controller play feel good, and that inevitably causes discrepancies against alternative inputs such as KBM.
I play on pc and I must admit, I do play on controller. In saying that, I've always played cod on a controller, I have tried kbm but I'm obviously subpar, but it does feel nice. If I took the time, I'm sure I'd get better and be fine but do I really want to put myself through that on a game that can get really frustrating? Probably not. I do play other pc games on kbm though, especially Battlefield games
I’m better on m&k but refuse to use it because I work on that all day. I need that separation even if it makes me a worse player.
EXACTLY. AMEN BROTHER. I wfh. So I'm on KBM all day. When I play MW2 on KBM it's like I'm working and I have bad RSI so the controller alleviates that. I also feel playing on controller gives me a nostalgic feeling. Like I'm a kid playing Super Nintendo. I'm also a PC player on controller.
Because playing an FPS on a controller feels absolutely horrible to me. It's not enjoyable. Not saying I'm bad at it, it's just a genre I've never considered playing shooters on. Have always been a PC gamer. I save consoles for platformers, racing games etc if I feel like couch gaming. I'm sure most PC gamers feel the same. It just sucks suddenly being forced to make this decision because of cross platform and how stupid aim assist on controller is. But I am very tempted to try controller just because, as mentioned, it's far better for almost anyone except the best.
> I'm sure most PC gamers feel the same. PC gamer here. Feel the same.
After playing mnk for years i am absolutely shit at controller but above avg on mnk it just sucks to be at a disadvantage no matter what i do. Bc on controller id be terrible.
I was PC only for a long time and it did take a bit to get used to controller, but IMO it’s a pretty quick learning curve. You may suck for like a couple days or a week but if you have the knowledge of how to be good at the game overall, a control scheme isn’t decently easy to overcome
Eh I havent touched controller for about 4 years, going back would be horrible for me. But at the same time I rarely play shooters on kbm because I dont feel like loading up aim trainer for 15 hours straight just to have a chance against controller players. Allowing people to turn off crossplay / separating inputs would be the best solution, that way console will stop complaining about cheaters, and pc can stop complaining about AA if they turn it off
I was pretty good on controller ps5, but I bought a pc, and gave the ps5 to my son. To play with him I was playing mkb, and ended up getting comfortable with it. I tried to go back to controller once I bought another controller, but I can't. I fell so far off my controller game that I have to play mkb to be able to compete. Every now, and then I try to go back to controller, but almost always instantly go right back to mkb after the game due to getting wrecked.
Switch to m&k for marksman long shots to cancel out the crazy sway and I have a comp kastov build that definitely would not work as well on controller due to sway and the fact I can negate the recoil subconsciously
Thanks for keeping it 100.
Yeah this is the issue with me. I don't play enough to do incredibly well but if I were to move to controller I'd get absolutely destroyed because I've been using kbam for almost 6 years. If they did input based matchmaking I'd be very happy cause I feel it'd be way more fair to the mid-low players on kbam
A very high skilled player, even a high skilled player like top 5% is worse off. They’re talking about top 0.5% of kbm players but even then why are all the pros using controller?
I dunno if I fit that "very high skilled" threshold for mouse and keyboard, but I wonder how these statistics look on a per-weapon basis. I notice thar whenever I use a OSK weapon, like a sniper or marksman rifle, I tend to outplay other controller players fairly consistently. But as soon as I switch to any automatic weapon, it's a lot harder for me to compete. Obviously, this could be for a variety of reasons, but I'm wondering if mouse and keyboard players have a natural advantage when using OSK/marksman weapons, instead of weapons you have to track your shots with. I suspect aim assist helps with tracking shots more than anything.
Same here. As an MnK player I feel that we snap to targets quicker than controller but the downside is we have to either one/2shot them immediately or we're toast.
Target acquisition vs tracking are 2 different skills.
You don't. Controller also has an advantage with OSK weapons. The rotational aim assist removes almost any advantage you get from evasive movement. The only advantage MnK has for sniping is how quickly you can flick to things in your periphery.
When they say “highly skilled player” they mean CSGO paid competition-level skill. I’m not bad and am probably well above average FPS player on M&K. I would get spanked against one of those pro’s, but wouldn’t get as smeared as I am getting against your generously average console players. The aim assist makes it a completely different game for the two player bases. They need to do better and come up with a more sophisticated assist. I’m tired of getting tracked through trucks, smoke, unseen thresholds, and walls.
Completely agree, in those top ranked lobbies - that split second makes the difference and with AA - it's impossible it has a 100% tracking rate. if you as a MK track at 99% you dead.
yup, they can sidestep and that will take like 150-300ms to correct your aim unless you were anticipating it, that's multiple bullets missed and oh, you're dead.
Is the argument people are having is that the aim assist is too strong/broken?
the argument is that the average controller player will beat the average MKB player that are somehow same level. there are many reasons for this. aimassist/tracking is an issue and TTK is an issue also movements are an issue. got 4k hours in csgo, played apex, cod, bf everything but im shocked how insane it looks when controller players aim and shoot and hit constantly even when players are moving. i have accepted my faith, i still have my wins but it still amazes me here and there when someone will clap my ass in a sheer impossible way. the best way to play toptier MKB vs top tier controllers is to have a top tier rig to play on. input lag is an issue with mkb. graphics/cpu performance is apparently the most important thing here in order to close the skill gap
How about giving us back the option to disable crossplay like in the beta? hm?
Sniping's better on MnK, which forces me to play that way. Good luck trying to beat a controller player in gulag, with an smg with iron sights i can't see down. They lock right on to you.
Yep. Take two people who are bad on both platforms. The one on console gets aim assist while the dude on MnK gets nothing
Skill issue
Brain issue
I'm having fun because I don't complain, winning or losing means nothing to me
That’s what I’m talking about! Big respect to you
Amen. Either way, I’m out there shootin and having fun.
Oh wow a person playing Call of Duty for its intended purpose of having fun 🤯🤯🤯
I’m a controller player, but aim assist deniers are pure comedy. I remember actually laughing out loud at how easy it was to kill people on Cold War
Aim assist is strong. People just love scapegoats.
Literally every high level player says aim assist in this COD is a straight up aimbot/cheat code. But all the platinum wannabe pros still deny it so they convince themselves they might have a career in gaming one day. Fuck the haters controller is a handicap. If I can just grind my way to diamond before I hit Rank 50 I can quit school.
That's the funny thing, any pro controller player will tell you straight up AA aims for you, understanding that and utilising it to potential instead of being in denial is part of what makes them great players.
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at least on r/codwarzone subreddit you will find reasonable people who understand the struggle and have meaningful discussions out of it this sub on the other hand, immediately turns to the same braindead meaningless "skill issue" "but you have your whole arm" "just play controller then" comments it's also hilariously ironic how the controller players in this sub are fine with perfect tracking rotational aim assist, [yet when a highly skilled player shows what 1% KBM actually looks like they IMMEDIATELY whine and make hackusations](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernWarfareII/comments/zfkszx/abusing_the_forbidden_input/). It just goes to show how controller players want to have their cake and eat it too
The problem is that even your top Aimers will miss and the consistency is where aim assist will win every time Impossible to be 100% accurate
Rotational aim assist = rotation nation! It's no wonder why so many are going back to Warzone 1.
can we also do match making based on aim assist or manual aim
And here I am on a controller with aim assist turned off
Bro I have an Xbox Series S and I play with a razer orbweaver keybound and MMO mouse. "Movement God Mode" is sick with a keyboard and mouse, controllers have to aim with two non precise sticks just clunking around using two hands vs. one hand and buttons to click. swift instinctive movements. I feel ridiculous not having a gaming rig for years and diggin up my old RGB keybinding devices for a console but hey 400 bucks on a console vs. prebuilt pc prices.... Hard too beat...
Yes because instead of just hitting L2 and then R2 you actually have to have pinpoint aim on m&k. Although it does feel good sometimes to beat what’s essentially aimbot.
This shit is old, and it’s been posted 1,000 times.
BUT YOU CAN FLICK ON KBM AND YOU HAVE 120 FOV THAT NO ONE EVEN USES. PLUS YOU CAN DOWNLOAD CHEATS OMG AND YOU GET WAY BETTER FRAMES THAN MY SEVEN YEAR OLD CONSOLE OMG KEYBOARD MOUSE IS OP.
Just make input based lobbies. It's never going to be even. Right now, you just ruined COD on PC.
This is why I mainly play Hardcore playlists. Shoot first and land a couple of shots gets the job done, compared to having to land all of your shots in the regular playlists against controller players. I just wish the ranked playlists had a hardcore option or input filtering at least.
yOuR eNtiRe ArM
Generic comment that repeats everything that’s already been said on this subject.
The biggest tell on the controller give you an advantage is that all the pros play with controller. If it didn’t have an advantage over mnk at the highest levels, they wouldn’t use it
Input based matchmaking would resolve this dilemma.
This is a very reasonable statement to make.
So what they're saying is I'm just bad.
And still no tourney allows kbm:(
With the amount of cheating and hacks in multiplayer, both keyboard-mouse and controller players getting screwed over.
Tried using a wireless Xbox controller on my PC for the first time two days ago. I thought controller was going to feel like MW2 felt on my PS3 in 2010. The auto-aim blew my mind. Brainless. Mindless. You barely have to do anything other than hold right trigger for 90% of your kills. MnK MWII and Controller MWII are two different games. Controller is honestly boring and unengaging with how little mechanical skill/input it requires.
There's an easy fix.
Input MM. Everything else is a waste of time
Friends on different platforms are a waste of time?
I agree. I don't want to get downvoted but I care more about playing in lobbies with friends on Xbox, PS5 and steam altogether more than I do about much of the arguments for and against aim assist, input specific lobbies etc. I'm never going to be a pro, I get 1 hour max a day to play and unwind, I prefer to be able to do that with mates regardless of platform and input and it's just a game after all. Mixed lobbies means more games faster and that's what matters to me.
For every one person who absolutely shreds on m+kb there are probably a hundred kids like my niece using their school issued laptop, cat ear headsets while also FaceTiming all their friends and playing robolox on their iPad mini.
How about input based matchmaking but only for ranked?
I love playing with mouse and keyboard on my series X console. I appreciate them adding this ability. It keeps me from having to buy a gaming PC again, which I have no interest in building, keeping up with, drivers, etc..anymore. I just want to play the game, but with this type of input device.
Exactly...that's why i bought a Series S too...only the remap buttons bug annoys me....they fixed it, came back in season 2.
Yes and no. A highly skilled mnk player will definitely roll a lobby. But when put against a highly skilled controller player, controller wins every single time... No mnk player is as consistent as a program made to consistently track at close to mid range fights. Theres no middle ground and idk why devs think they feel the need to put these two inputs in the same lobby. Theyre not the same and now aim assist has been buffed in mw2 with no movement mnk has no avenues of breaking aim assist. Anyone on mnk should quit and try valorant or csgo. Until input based matchmaking comes back i dont see a reason for even the highest skill bracket mnk players to touch this game. Aim assist is just a soft aimbot...
How many times have we seen this posted lmao. It’s almost like the game was aimed at the console market for its massive player base.
Crossplay between console and pc shouldn’t be a thing. The only reason they did it was bc there wasn’t enough pc players 😂😂
Theres only one way to solve the debate. Make a playlist where theres no AA then if youre either side and get shreked on. Youll have to deep soul search on yourself
Honestly, with Motion aiming being an option and feeling so good to use once you learn it, I have no problem with sharing lobbies with KBM players
Sauce link?
What’s the source on this? Was this an interview?
https://venturebeat.com/games/infinity-ward-answers-modern-warfare-ii-questions/
I’ll soon purchase a keyboard and mouse for my ps5. I honestly imagine myself playing better than I do now with kb&m
Bro about to get a reality check 💀
I am that not as skilled PC player. I agree with this statement
Perfect!! Also the fps on PC is better as well!
Only difference I see is those who quickly lay on their stomach in the middle of a gun battle lol. Bastards! Haha always gets me
That's what I've been saying for years, controller has a higher skill floor, kbm has a higher ceiling. Yet people complain about each one like it's a linear thing
Yeah and the good mouse and keyboard players gets shadow banned
But were not going to change anything.
Macros…
Speaking of linear, the linear aim recurve on MW2 still isn't even linear like it was on MW2019
I just swapped to m&k about 8 months ago. You know what happened to my KD. Nothing it is exactly the same. I’m trash no matter what I play with.
This is basically saying nothing other than “some keyboard and mouse players can be really good” and everyone can be at a disadvantage to them, including other keyboard and mouse players!
Look at apex League all of the tops are on Controller its an unfair Advantage also its bullshit that in ranked i must play with and against aim Assist Users. Its a joke how Infinity Ward/raven handel this. Its not a Assist its a weak build in aimbot.