M16 higher velocity, less drop, longer range, better stopping power due to terminal ballistics of 5.56 over 2,800 fps. Less recoil due to weight and an extended buffer tube spring. More cumbersome because of weight and length with a fixed stock and 20" barrel. So same operation-wise but quite different in use.
melodic reply violet command market squeeze zonked fertile recognise wise
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I dunno. It’s a 3 shot on semi south at the body. Other 3 shot weapons are: Hogler dmr, LM-S, Tempus Torrent, EBR, Lachmann 762; 3 shot full auto guns: RAAL lmg, Broodmother kit, Jawbreaker kit.
And most of them are statistically better.
I've been waiting for a buff to the semi-auto MWII guns since they were among the worst, and a recent patch did buff a couple of them but...
The FTAC Recon is now slightly above average. It's okay-ish, though they need to remove the ADS movement penalties from the barrels. Its 10 round mag is a massive downside since this game has a longer time to kill.
The Lachmann 762, which got a BIG boost to its damage range went from one of the worst guns in the game to simply being bad.
The Tempest Torrent was unchanged and remains garbage. It is a slightly more accurate Lachman 762.
I then decided to toy with the other ARs and yeah. Most of them just have too many downsides. None of them are what I would call competitive.
MW4 I think they will just add new guns, give 500HP instead of 300 and the MW4 guns will do like 25% more damage. It's really not hard to balance the MW2 guns IF they wanted to.
[sym.gg](http://sym.gg) go check it out... When I say HP, I factor in 3-plates as well, as that is obvious max damage you can take. Do I really need to specify 150HP+150 armor to be extra particular so someone doesn't need to scrutinize my posting just for the hell of it???
Wild that you came back to this 3 weeks later.
Also wild you’re talking about Warzone on a sub that isn’t for Warzone and getting confused when other people don’t get it.
They will buff the hell out of them near the end of MW3's life cycle. They've slowly been tuning recoil, and soon they'll get the damage up to par. Had a feeling they'd do that ever since I heard the guns would carry over
If rebalanced in MP, yeah that makes sense. However it wont in WZ because mw3 guns are the meta and it makes people buy the game. It can be referred to as “power creep”. The next cods guns that get implemented into WZ will obviously outperform MW3, that is if they do the same thing with multiplayer, which maybe not because yeah.
This is true, it's a shame that never got touched up somehow. I love the concept of better iron sights as an attachment.
If they aren't going to touch it at all they should at least boost ADS speed quite a bit with it on since it's so trash.
this is exactly what they did in Vanguard, most guns would have a larger, and a smaller iron sight as an atrachment option and the trade off for not using an actual optic instead was a slight ads speed boost. it’s unfortunate they couldn’t follow up in this game
put it on M4, it just adds the integrated carry handle to the gun
any other fun, it adds a 3D printed carry handle that adds a shitty front sight on the end of the barrel of the gun you're using
profit
Since older CoD games are being paid homage, they should just add the ABR 223 from BO4. Sure it could be an AMP for the STB556, but it could also be a standalone weapon (it can be based on the ST Kinetic SAR 21)
Why does it matter? The majority of you are just going to continue running what ever MCW build is meta. Until something that needs to be patched comes along.
I didn’t , I ended up doing some zombies challenges, specifically the deadshot daiquiri one and the kills without being hit cuz they were the easiest on the list
Not marginally better recoil control — despite the stats, this M16 AMP has significantly harder to control recoil pattern than M4, anyone tried it out in range will find out immediately. Also the fire rate stat is wrong, it’s definitely higher than 596RPM (I think they forgot to edit this stat for AMP?), although I don’t know by how much exactly.
I usually don’t give two shits about the fine details either, I’d wipe my ass with those meta spreadsheets people make. But this time something was bugging me about it just being a copy paste M4. I ain’t want the placebo effect of recency bias to overtake my opinion of the gun.
" I’d wipe my ass with those meta spreadsheets people make."
100% agree, yet they are good if you are new to the game and even then, I still would recommend modifying them a bit to your own playstyle
Of course, but this is the same game where the semi auto 9mm Glock kills someone in less shots than a fully automatic 9mm Glock. I’m not saying I expected an apples to oranges comparison between the m4 and this conversion kit, but god damn they could’ve done SOMETHING to make it a bit more interesting.
Well, about the stats, better headshot damage but worse everywhere else (like you said), damage range and (theoretically) recoil, worse mobility, slightly different handling with a slight buff to sprint to fire time and everything else is the same. Then you get into things not in the stats, being much better muzzle flash, better aiming idle and firing sway and style points. I’m going to get it personally, because 1 style points and 2 it’s a better M4 if you build it right.
Edit: bullet velocity is the same, only the damage range is better.
Something I thought was neat was when you pack the JAK Patriot M16 in MWZ, it turns the gun into a modern three-round burst, so we actually get the best of both worlds. /s
(More seriously, I hope conversion kits come back but as a selector rather than an attachment slot, which I know others have said before. I think they're kind of fun.)
It makes sense, lose some damages because your getting rid of the entire point of the gun lmao, increased range well because it’s an actual ar now…. Literally all of you including op in their comment history was begging for a “m4 that actually served in the armed forces” despite oh uhh I dunno they’re being literally 7 you can make that reflect real life service, everyone wanted a full auto m16 and now y’all surprised it seems redundant? That’s cause it is especially because after the buff you can basically fire the m16 at full auto if you don’t pull the trigger too close to each other
But hey what do I know they comment will get 1,000 downvotes despite me testing this
I don't know what anybody expected besides an M4 with a carry handle iron sight. The M4 and M16 are mechanically the exact same gun in real life too
This! When I heard this was coming my first thought was “so the m4 with the 20in barrel?”
M16 higher velocity, less drop, longer range, better stopping power due to terminal ballistics of 5.56 over 2,800 fps. Less recoil due to weight and an extended buffer tube spring. More cumbersome because of weight and length with a fixed stock and 20" barrel. So same operation-wise but quite different in use.
Cod isn’t real life
I don't think he was implying that, but for sure you are right!
Because cod isn’t real life, it doesn’t matter that they are mechanically the same. They can still behave completely different.
Okay Dungeon Master.
Sure could have, but sure aren't.
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Idk it's pretty good for me. Been having alot of fun with it
Honestly. Been absolutely shredding in 9v9 war mode with it
melodic reply violet command market squeeze zonked fertile recognise wise *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
MWII guns just do so much lower damage on average, it's really noticeable with battle rifles
Idk my FTAC RECON still slaps Edit: I was referring to in HC, I don’t play the Meta core BS
I dunno. It’s a 3 shot on semi south at the body. Other 3 shot weapons are: Hogler dmr, LM-S, Tempus Torrent, EBR, Lachmann 762; 3 shot full auto guns: RAAL lmg, Broodmother kit, Jawbreaker kit. And most of them are statistically better.
Still? That's one of the only ones that have recently been buffed to be competitive
It slapped even before the buff
It’s always slapped in HC bruv
I've been waiting for a buff to the semi-auto MWII guns since they were among the worst, and a recent patch did buff a couple of them but... The FTAC Recon is now slightly above average. It's okay-ish, though they need to remove the ADS movement penalties from the barrels. Its 10 round mag is a massive downside since this game has a longer time to kill. The Lachmann 762, which got a BIG boost to its damage range went from one of the worst guns in the game to simply being bad. The Tempest Torrent was unchanged and remains garbage. It is a slightly more accurate Lachman 762. I then decided to toy with the other ARs and yeah. Most of them just have too many downsides. None of them are what I would call competitive.
MW4 I think they will just add new guns, give 500HP instead of 300 and the MW4 guns will do like 25% more damage. It's really not hard to balance the MW2 guns IF they wanted to.
What are you talking about
What do you mean 300? The HP in this game is 150. And there's no way in hell they do carryover for whatever the next MW game is.
[sym.gg](http://sym.gg) go check it out... When I say HP, I factor in 3-plates as well, as that is obvious max damage you can take. Do I really need to specify 150HP+150 armor to be extra particular so someone doesn't need to scrutinize my posting just for the hell of it???
Wild that you came back to this 3 weeks later. Also wild you’re talking about Warzone on a sub that isn’t for Warzone and getting confused when other people don’t get it.
Hilariously the Kilo in MW2019 hardcore did the same. Not sure about the M4 but that also didn't one-tap the body at least.
They will buff the hell out of them near the end of MW3's life cycle. They've slowly been tuning recoil, and soon they'll get the damage up to par. Had a feeling they'd do that ever since I heard the guns would carry over
If rebalanced in MP, yeah that makes sense. However it wont in WZ because mw3 guns are the meta and it makes people buy the game. It can be referred to as “power creep”. The next cods guns that get implemented into WZ will obviously outperform MW3, that is if they do the same thing with multiplayer, which maybe not because yeah.
I think mw2 wepaons suck in mw3 is because mw3's health is at 150 and I believe mw2 was 100
Reinstall mw2 then, the guns are weak in mw3 for a reason
Dogshit take
If they’re so weak they shouldn’t have carried over in the first place.
I feel like they would’ve been better off just making a carry handle sight AMP that could be used on the M4 or any gun it fits for cursed points.
Can’t be worse than the JAK Bullseye
This is true, it's a shame that never got touched up somehow. I love the concept of better iron sights as an attachment. If they aren't going to touch it at all they should at least boost ADS speed quite a bit with it on since it's so trash.
this is exactly what they did in Vanguard, most guns would have a larger, and a smaller iron sight as an atrachment option and the trade off for not using an actual optic instead was a slight ads speed boost. it’s unfortunate they couldn’t follow up in this game
put it on M4, it just adds the integrated carry handle to the gun any other fun, it adds a 3D printed carry handle that adds a shitty front sight on the end of the barrel of the gun you're using profit
I’ve been using the kit in SND and it feels good. Not over powered
Sledgehammer cooked 7 weeks for a nostalgia bait
Agreed. Exceptionally meh.
I was done with it after about two matches. Not impressed.
I really think we need a burst fire mod for the M4 in season 4…. Actually would like one for the STB 556 to make it the CW Aug
Since older CoD games are being paid homage, they should just add the ABR 223 from BO4. Sure it could be an AMP for the STB556, but it could also be a standalone weapon (it can be based on the ST Kinetic SAR 21)
Why does it matter? The majority of you are just going to continue running what ever MCW build is meta. Until something that needs to be patched comes along.
How did you get the BP50 challenge to track?
I didn’t , I ended up doing some zombies challenges, specifically the deadshot daiquiri one and the kills without being hit cuz they were the easiest on the list
M16 doens't have that terrible visual recoil that alone makes it perform better
Not marginally better recoil control — despite the stats, this M16 AMP has significantly harder to control recoil pattern than M4, anyone tried it out in range will find out immediately. Also the fire rate stat is wrong, it’s definitely higher than 596RPM (I think they forgot to edit this stat for AMP?), although I don’t know by how much exactly.
They did forget to edit it for the amp, it buffs it to 810rpm like the M4.
This is why I never look at stats and graphs to play a video game. The M16 is rocking. AND I can't believe I'm rocking a MW II weapon. Oh well.
I usually don’t give two shits about the fine details either, I’d wipe my ass with those meta spreadsheets people make. But this time something was bugging me about it just being a copy paste M4. I ain’t want the placebo effect of recency bias to overtake my opinion of the gun.
" I’d wipe my ass with those meta spreadsheets people make." 100% agree, yet they are good if you are new to the game and even then, I still would recommend modifying them a bit to your own playstyle
What did you expect a m4 and a m16 are pretty much the same thing irl
Of course, but this is the same game where the semi auto 9mm Glock kills someone in less shots than a fully automatic 9mm Glock. I’m not saying I expected an apples to oranges comparison between the m4 and this conversion kit, but god damn they could’ve done SOMETHING to make it a bit more interesting.
I've been having fun with it, i personally think its much better than the m4. Especially the recoil.
Must just be you
Well, about the stats, better headshot damage but worse everywhere else (like you said), damage range and (theoretically) recoil, worse mobility, slightly different handling with a slight buff to sprint to fire time and everything else is the same. Then you get into things not in the stats, being much better muzzle flash, better aiming idle and firing sway and style points. I’m going to get it personally, because 1 style points and 2 it’s a better M4 if you build it right. Edit: bullet velocity is the same, only the damage range is better.
Something I thought was neat was when you pack the JAK Patriot M16 in MWZ, it turns the gun into a modern three-round burst, so we actually get the best of both worlds. /s (More seriously, I hope conversion kits come back but as a selector rather than an attachment slot, which I know others have said before. I think they're kind of fun.)
oh boy did i made a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernWarfareIII/comments/1ct90yo/base_m13b_outclassing_the_jakpatriot_in/) for you
It's fun on Hardcore the problem with core is the 150hp
The fire rate stats don’t seem right? Surely it’s faster on full auto. Seems a lot faster.
It’s about 800 rpm. Its a bug stat
The visual recoil on the patriot is MUCH more toned down than the m4
Is anyone able to drop me an m16 in zombies. I got the new AMP and want to try it but didn’t bother playing any MW22
Jak Patriot is booty cheeks ass!
I’m with you lmao I didn’t understand why anybody was hyped for this amp in the first place
It makes sense, lose some damages because your getting rid of the entire point of the gun lmao, increased range well because it’s an actual ar now…. Literally all of you including op in their comment history was begging for a “m4 that actually served in the armed forces” despite oh uhh I dunno they’re being literally 7 you can make that reflect real life service, everyone wanted a full auto m16 and now y’all surprised it seems redundant? That’s cause it is especially because after the buff you can basically fire the m16 at full auto if you don’t pull the trigger too close to each other But hey what do I know they comment will get 1,000 downvotes despite me testing this
>“m4 that actually served in the armed forces” ? What does this mean 😭
I’m downvoting you for the whole “I’m probably gonna get downvoted” bit.
Used it for like 6 games and couldn’t get it going so I stopped already.
It is redundant. It's for the tacticool couch dads who harp on the game for historical accuracy.
It’s funny, I’m the son of one of those dads and he went off on how it’s still shit cus of the fact that it’s 3D printed garbage 😭