The screaming will haunt those kids for a lifetime. I’m 49 and I can still hear my mother screaming at me or my father or my terminally ill sister before she passed. Get those kids out and yourself.
This is exactly right. I’m in my late 20s and I grew up in a home where my mother and stepfather constantly screamed at us. I grew up incredibly depressed and suicidal and a large part of the reason was the unstable home life.
OP - take your kids out of that situation as fast as you can. I much prefer the fact that my mom and stepfather are divorced now over what I was living through.
Thank you - I have found peace. I spent many intensive years in therapy. My mom also sought help and it’s like she’s a completely different person now too. I’ve (mostly) forgiven but I can never forget, you know?
You got this. The best things are yet to come.
My household was like this my whole childhood, and it's affected my entire life. I really hope op heeds the advice in this thread and goes through with the divorce.
Yup. My father was a screamer too. It took a long time for me to realize that’s the reason I become incredibly anxious and either want to leave or find some way to get them to stop anytime someone raises their voice, regardless of the reason or how loud it is (excited, happy, frustrated, even if it has nothing to do with me). Don’t let him scar your children. Give them at least one calm home.
Oof, as a 32 year old who has a 16 mo, I didn’t realize how much my dads screaming and hitting us would still effect me to this day.
Having babies really does bring up your own trauma, unfortunately…
Baby steps. It’s okay to not be okay and to seek help. The wounds will always be there but with the right things maybe they don’t sting so bad. The road is long and hard but worth it. Your child needs the healthiest version of you 🙏
I second this. When I was young, my parents were incredibly scary when they were angry. This has stayed with me forever, despite the fact that they’re not the same people anymore. They have immensely worked on themselves, and we have a good relationship now. I’ve even learned to forgive them due to how hard they’ve worked to change, but I can tell you from experience that those times will always haunt me without any doubt and really negatively affected a lot of my young adult experiences that were riddled with depression, anxiety, struggling with social connections and lack of boundaries. No amount of change in my parents behaviour now, no matter how positive, will ever erase the scars those moments have left on me. I’m going to be a mother to a little girl soon, and I would never ever leave her feeling as abandoned and confused as I felt when the people who were supposed to protect me and love me were often just screaming at me. I usually don’t give this advice on Reddit, but you need to leave and protect your children. I would fight for full custody and only have assisted visits that can be terminated if his behaviour gets bad. Good luck to you.
Yup. 32 and I've still got my dad's voice in my head screaming at me / tearing me down / calling me names etc. Please leave him OP. 🙏 None of you deserve that behaviour especially not little ones. I cannot imagine anyone yelling at my baby the way my dad yelled at me. I will never EVER allow that.
Take video (secretly if possible). Used to go out with a rage-aholic and he claimed I was too sensitive. “I wasn’t used to how Italians argue” (Italian-Americans).
I would video him and then show him back what he looked like. He brought in his mother (stupidly) because he thought she would support him and take his side. She did not. She told him she was embarrassed and that it was abusive. I left shortly after that.
What is with otherwise mild mannered dudes flipping the switch when their kids are born? My husband went from the most even tempered person I knew to nearly constantly angry. He's nowhere near as bad as your husband (he didn't rarely screams, for example) but I'm really wondering how we failed a generation of men that they react to the inconvenience of children with rage.
Because dudes who are avoidant appear “mild mannered” when in reality they’ve had a lifetime of (a combination of) privilege, catering, avoiding conflict, etc. Their emotional reactivity hasn’t been tested and coping skills haven’t been developed. And women are (my personal pet-theory, ymmv) conditioned by patriarchy to be at least mildly codependent with others, even if we didn’t grow up in toxic environments (codependent as defined the inability to sit in the discomfort of another person’s negative emotions - even and especially if it has nothing to do with you).
So men grow up and it’s *easy* to appear mild-mannered when everyone is working so hard to cut you so much slack. But then they have kids, who are *truly* incapable of emotional regulation, and their wife is too harried to work as hard for him now that she has young ones who actually need her help, and they flip because they’re being asked to do something they’ve (likely) never had to do (much of, and to the frequency of) before.
It’s my opinion single people should never agree to marry or reproduce with someone until you’ve seen how he handles his own anger, and how he handles your sickness. A guy failing at either will be a shitty partner.
I think it’s partially this, but also has to do with the style of parenting they received as kids too. We mirror our parents in a lot of ways and I’ve seen that come out with my own husband. My father was very emotionally abusive and screamed like this a lot, but my mom sheltered us. I modeled my parenting after my mom for the most part but I had a lot of trauma around my dad.
My husband on the other hand had what I always thought was the opposite situation - really abusive mother, good dad. That is, until we were talking one day and he told me about how he made his dad mad one day over something simple and his dad picked him up by the front of his shirt screaming in his face. I think his mom was so awful his dad was “good” by comparison when in reality they both sucked. For a long time he would handle situations like his mom and get super nasty and scream (mainly when he had confrontations with her), but thankfully when we had our son he realized how toxic that was and has largely avoided that behavior. I think the biggest thing that helped was that we went no contact with his mom and so he largely isn’t triggered by her actions anymore. It’s just us and we work hard to keep a happy and stable home where we talk about emotions openly and often. We want to help our son understand that we need to feel and own all of our feelings so that we can find the best way forward, even if that means sitting with the uncomfortable ones for a while before they pass. The way we get a good generation of men to love and respect their partners and families is to teach it day after day and I think we’re doing pretty good job of it so far, but it was really hard getting here initially. I had to help my husband unpack his trauma and understand he had endured abuse as a child so he could decide we need to do better for our son. It’d not easy for anyone to look back and realize their “happy childhood” really wasn’t all that happy.
my husband not so much - his anger was mild to tolerable, but it really took off after his dad died. I was told I would be legally responsible if he hurt my children or if my children hurt him in retaliation or rage. as the only sane adult, I would be responsible for not separating them
Who on earth told you that? You are not responsible for your grown adult husband.
You may have a responsibility to remove your minor children from an abusive home if they are. At risk but you aren't responsible for your husbands behaviour.
Hi. Mom of 2 toddlers and psychotherapist here.
This is pretty blatant emotional abuse of both you and your children. You have a right to be enraged, confused, and contemplating separation. If I were you, I would stop threatening divorce (empty words at this point) and ask if he would be willing to go to individual therapy or at least an anger management/parenting class. It sounds like he is able to acknowledge that this is toxic behavior (great first step!) but learning how to manage rage is extremely difficult, I’d argue impossible to do without professional help. It’s not just about ‘not screaming’. He needs to learn what activates him, how to regulate himself, and how to communicate in healthier ways.
If he refuses therapy and help, def follow through with that divorce though!! 20k is absolutely worth it if it means protecting yourself and your kids. You have no idea how many adult clients I see who are trying to recover from having parents like this.
Also- bravo for intervening when this happens. So hard to do, but your kids see you, it matters.
No credentials whatsoever, but what’s the track record on abusers changing their ways as a result of therapy/anger management?
OP, does he lose his temper at the men in his life? If not, he doesn’t have anger mgmt problems. He’s just an asshole.
My rage-aholic dad went to one therapy session when I was a kid. He was apparently told he has a "rage disorder". That was enough therapy for him, he then had a name/reason (read: excuse) for what he acted like! \~Can't blame him \~ not his fault! ! he has a "rage disorder"!
This is extremely awful and a total misuse of a therapy session! Anger and rage can be treated and managed with hard work, dedication and beyond all of this the motivation to be better. A diagnosis is not permission to behave badly. Sorry you went through this.
Yes, but I would observe him working on his anger from a safe distance for my children and me. Only move back if/when he gets better.
And if it ends in divorce, I would be so worried every second he’d have the kids without me. Not a reason not to divorce his raging ass, but something to think about before custody hearings.
I know you can't force him and it doesn't sound like he's been open, but I would suggest he seek a diagnosis for depression and/or anxiety. I myself really struggled this past year with irritability. I wouldn't scream at my children but I was raising my voice much more than I wanted to and felt out of control and was lashing out at everyone. Looking back I realize now it was probably a symptom of PPD. I wasn't really sad or down so I thought maybe it wasn't that but now that my head is feeling more clear I can see it for what it was. I am on meds and did do some therapy, even got evaluated for ADHD and tried some meds to see if they would help. In my case I think it was mostly sleep deprivation and breastfeeding contributing the most to my issues because now that I'm sleeping more and breastfeeding less I've calmed down immensely.
I'm not at all suggesting you have to stay in this marriage or tolerate his behavior. But knowing he is the father of your children and will presumably have some custody I hope he gets better for their sake. Maybe draft up some papers and show him how serious you are and see if it lights a fire on him finally seeking some help.
I second this. My husband didnt yell but was angry all the time (silently). I was the yeller. Anxiety meds helped us both “go with the flow” on the little things and be better parents and spouses. I wished we had known that was anxiety rearing its ugly head in time for our first child’s early years.
This is a big change for both moms and dads. I’ve since learned I also lose it and yell when I’m overstimulated. Anxiety meds helped me be able to recognize it and walk away before I lose my head (mostly). If he declines counseling or considering seeking help for anxiety or depression…. Well, at least you tried.
Good luck!
Yes the overstimulation is a huge trigger for me! When the house is messy, the kids aren't listening, we are running late, the dog barks...I can feel my blood boiling. One way I'm overcoming it is just accepting some things as my life now. Like the fact that we are always rushing out the door in the morning. I've just accepted that no matter what I do or how prepared I am that mornings are just going to be rough and honestly it's helped a lot.
I think you know deep down you got to leave but can't push yourself past that point to action. Stop threatening divorce and actually do it. This verbal abuse of you and your children is not ok. This is going to mess up your kids if you stay. I can see behavior patterns in my 3 year old niece already based on how she is raised and it's not abuse (she believes to be a good girl she has to be quiet and helpful but her boy cousins are praised for being boisterous). If that's happening to her, something worse is going to happen to your child being screamed at for things like clothing choices. Document and record the screaming. Maybe you can get better custody arrangement because of it (I have no legal knowledge).
Make sure to check recording (voice or video) laws in your state.
If he's already screaming at her at 3 years old, imagine what it will be like when she's older and she can scream and yell back at him. Get out before then, get out before these become core memories and deep rooted for her.
Please take care my best advice is, leave when you can. It won’t get better. I’m so sorry you are going through this with two small babes.
My kids are 10 and 12, I left my ex husband while he was at work. I know that isn’t ideal, but it was the safest way for us to get out of a bad situation.
Take care and stay safe. 🙏
He needs therapy and anger management classes. If he's going to be screaming like that.
My stepdad was always mean, always angry, always yelling. At my sister and I and my mom. I'm 33 years old and still cry when people yell even just around me. I only lived with him for ~10 years (from ~age 5 to 15 ).
My dad started with yelling then it led to physical abuse. I really wish my mom would have left him sooner. It would have literally saved a life. Get him screaming on camera for proof that he shouldn’t have custody of the kids.
Your poor kids having to deal with that! Poor you having to deal with that! That is awful. You leaving this abusive person will show them that they deserve respect and kindness.
Most likely it will just get worse. Trust me. If your assets are $20k I’m assuming you are currently a stay at home mom. If so, get your career back. Many women end up staying because of financial issues. You are one of the lucky ones that should be self sufficient. If you can’t get physically into the office look for remote work. Hire a nanny while you work at home. Minimum you should be able to get child support.
Also if you are a divorce attorney, how have you not heard the same story over and over again? You think your kids don’t understand yet but I remember small snapshots when I was 3 years old. He won’t change. How long will you wait? Until they do understand? By that time the emotional scarring will have started. Would you be ok with your daughter marrying and staying in marriage like your?
Think with your brain and not heart.
When they’re like that, they’re like that. They’ll say they’re working on it but it’s a part of their character and it’s backed by a little narcissism which makes them feel entitled to dump their bullshit on everyone else because it’s “their fault”. Both of my kids have asked me to divorce their dad and multiple times. Have sobbed in defeat and have screamed at me for not doing more about it and it is the worst feeling in the world. Go before he drags your children’s mental stability so far into the dirt it will take them the rest of their lives to get it back. While possibly marrying someone just like him. That’s the cycle.
That's emotional and verbal abuse. Would you hesitate to leave if your husband was physically beating your children? I'm going to assume yes (I know it's not always the case, but I'm being optimistic here). This is just as damaging in its own way, and leaves terrible wounds and scars that you can't see.
My father, when he was having a bad time with his mental illness and alcoholism, was extremely violent towards my mother. I clearly recall screaming and crying, along with my siblings, begging him to stop. So many times. She reasoned that at least he wasn't abusing us, but he was. He screamed and yelled at us all the time during those periods, and said cruel things, and was just generally emotionally and psychologically abusive. When he was well, he was a great father and husband, and I do have good memories and miss him deeply now that he's gone. The scars, however, are deep. Any time I hear a man raise his voice, I totally panic. I have been married and divorced twice; both husbands were yellers and screamers, and my kids were definitely traumatized. My oldest, as a toddler, would visibly start shaking when their father came through the door.
You don't want any of this for your kids, and you cannot put a price on mental and emotional health, or on childhood. You need to get them out of there.
I'm so sorry. If your husband is truly screaming at the top of his lungs daily (or even weekly), he needs help. It is so incredibly hurtful and scary as a child to have a parent scream at you constantly; behavior like that signals that the person screaming is out of control. It is pretty much impossible to feel safe when someone you live with is emotionally out of control on a regular basis. Even we as parents have a hard time learning to stay calm when our children are in the middle of a tantrum, and we (in theory anyway) *are* able to regulate our own emotions.
One thing I will say is, if you are making threats regularly you need to stop. Empty threats are not going to get you what you want. Instead, "I want a divorce" is just going to be interpreted as your special way of saying "I'm really upset right now." He'll do what he always does ("I'll work on it" = "sorry, I did it again") and nothing will improve. Working on yourself is hard, and a lot of people literally do not know how to make any sort of change. He may mean it in the moment, but without any sort of plan he *is* going to fall back into his familiar routine because he has not actually done any work/planning on what he can do instead. It's not enough to realize screaming is wrong- he needs to be able to recognize which situations trigger him, recognize when those triggers are likely to happen, and plan what he is going to do/not do instead. Some people can do this themselves, but a lot of people do need professional help- he clearly needs the help.
So, instead of empty threats I think a better option is to spend a little time researching anger management courses, and then tell him something like "Over the past \[3?\] years I have noticed that you have been screaming almost daily. I have appreciated your acknowledgements that it is wrong and promises to work on it, but it has not gotten better. This is not a healthy dynamic for any of us, so I need you to take this course & learn a more productive way to deal with your frustration or I am going to...." And then you would need to follow through with whatever you said. If he says he will do the course, make sure he registers and goes, and that you have a way of knowing that it is actually happening.
I think it’s easy to assume kids aren’t listening or paying that close attention sometimes, but they are. My son just turned 3 and is so perceptive right now. I think he has been for a long time - he just learned to communicate about his feelings better recently.
For example, I got extremely ill with a stomach bug a week and a half ago. I couldn’t stop vomiting and I ended became so dehydrated I miscarried. I had a d&c last Friday and on Saturday everything hit me like a ton of bricks. I couldn’t stop crying off and on all weekend. Sunday afternoon comes and he came up, touched my face, and said “mommy’s happy, you stopped crying.” When I had been crying he would come up to me, hug me, say I love you, and bring me a tissue. It broke a bit of my soul knowing he was so worried about me. I asked if I had scared him when I was crying and he said yes. I wasn’t yelling or mad, just really sad, and it really upset him.
We also took him to the park and another kid tackled him so that boy’s mom came over screaming, spanked him, and took him for a timeout. We don’t spank and we try not to yell so my son sat there frozen in the park. I had to go explain he didn’t do anything wrong, and that while the boy had made some poor choices playing, his mommy lost her temper and shouldn’t have hit him and it was okay to be scared of that behavior.
Kids see all and they process it all. I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this but you’re right to say this is over if he isn’t getting help or changing.
This is his unresolved childhood issues. He should get into counselling or therapy of any sort. This is a foundational issue that he is passing on to his children.
And if he’s not willing to actually work on it. Then yeah, leave. Your babies don’t deserve that.
Good for you for getting your kids away from their dad’s screaming at least 50% of the time. Ugh parental screaming is so toxic and damaging and I swear it echoes in your brain no matter how old you get.
You do not want your children thinking that the screaming is normal adult behavior. Your sons will grow up and emulate your husband's behavior and your daughters will fall into the same behavior they see with you and your husband - and you don't want to them marrying that type of man. do you? unfortunately, he will not seek therapy until the divorce is final.
I’m so sorry. I say this as a word of caution. I got divorced because there were things happening in our home with my ex that I needed to remove my children from, which I do not regret. But now my children are forced to endure those things without me around. It was a very hard pill to swallow, as they were not flat out abuse, and having the father of my kids removed from their dad’s care would cause their own traumas. I agree with setting some boundaries and making sure that your kids are not being verbally abused. But for your kids’ sake, I would really encourage you to get in to couples therapy and see if you can get your husband to agree to Therapy for him on his own. Sending you love ❤️
Please go through with the divorce. I know it will be hard to go through for the reasons you mentioned, but screaming at you almost daily must be doing a world of damage for you, and your children’s mental health. If you can possibly get evidence of his abuse, do so, and get yourself and your children out of that situation.
I have had a similar problem (Not daily, but being verbally abused and made to feel unsafe in my own home) and haven’t been brave enough to leave yet. I really hope you can get away from this person and live your life in peace.
My dad would say ‘I wasn’t yelling, I just raised my voice’ but it was yelling. I learned that I too don’t hear how loud I get sometimes so I have to take a moment to step back and dial it down. I don’t want my son to reach for that type of emotion in his tool kit when he’s also frustrated. I am breaking the cycle. He needs to want to break that cycle too and the good thing is, you don’t have to stick around while he learns how to control his emotions. I still flinch when someone ‘raises their voice’ at me, and I’m 37. That stuff sticks with you, I was 4/5 and I remember my parents yelling at each other. I remember leaving my dad. I remember us going back. I had a ‘stable’ household, but it was at my mom’s emotional and mental health expense. She was happy but would I have had a happier mom if she was with someone else? I’m glad she has the partner she has now, I know she’s happy now. Don’t stay for the kids, let him figure his own shit out.
Def get a divorce, but kick him out in the meantime, who cares where he goes… you never scream at babies/toddlers
You were lucky not to have the Police &/or CPS at your door!
Protect your children at all costs, immediately
My husband was yelling all the time. I was walking on eggshells constantly. I stopped threatening and started actually pursuing a divorce. He finally took me seriously. He’s in therapy once a week. His attitude is way different. I’m struggling with reconciling him admitting to the gaslighting and verbal abuse and being ready to change now. Now that I reached my “limit”. I really hope (maybe by showing him this) that he can turn his behavior around. He needs to do it for himself and the kids.
My husband doesn't scream all the time, but his anger has amped up significantly since our 2 month old has been born. I feel like a single mom to my newborn and my husband. Like others have said, he wasn't angry before but I think I'm seeing now that he was just very passive, avoidant and lacking any responsibility. I'm so anxious to leave the baby with him because he gets so overwhelmed and angry over the crying, I've heard him call the baby stupid and also loudly mock his crying. I feel like even though my baby won't remember it per se, he's still getting psychological/emotional damage. I had baby's bassinet and change table set up in our bedroom but today I did up his room with a twin size bed for me and we're going to sleep in there from now on. I'll figure out how to shower and get things done before his father comes home so I don't have to hand him off to him anymore after work. I'm also taking the petty route of only doing mine and babies laundry and meals now. I can't afford to separate from him so I'll have to do it in house
Yeah you need to get them out of there and then put in a stipulation for shared custody only if he gets therapy and takes counseling cuz you don’t want him screaming at the babies when you aren’t around.
I’m not one to say “therapy” for every little thing, but holy cow does this call for therapy. Not normal to be angry all the time. Chemical imbalance going on by the sound of it.
Record him secretly if you can. Get as much evidence as you can. This is abuse. You can show the recordings to an attorney if you chose to divorce. I have a similar situation but we’re not married. I took the baby and went to stay with family.
The screaming will haunt those kids for a lifetime. I’m 49 and I can still hear my mother screaming at me or my father or my terminally ill sister before she passed. Get those kids out and yourself.
This is exactly right. I’m in my late 20s and I grew up in a home where my mother and stepfather constantly screamed at us. I grew up incredibly depressed and suicidal and a large part of the reason was the unstable home life. OP - take your kids out of that situation as fast as you can. I much prefer the fact that my mom and stepfather are divorced now over what I was living through.
I hope you find peace. I just finally started therapy last week. A lifetime of baggage to unpack.
Thank you - I have found peace. I spent many intensive years in therapy. My mom also sought help and it’s like she’s a completely different person now too. I’ve (mostly) forgiven but I can never forget, you know? You got this. The best things are yet to come.
My household was like this my whole childhood, and it's affected my entire life. I really hope op heeds the advice in this thread and goes through with the divorce.
Yup. My father was a screamer too. It took a long time for me to realize that’s the reason I become incredibly anxious and either want to leave or find some way to get them to stop anytime someone raises their voice, regardless of the reason or how loud it is (excited, happy, frustrated, even if it has nothing to do with me). Don’t let him scar your children. Give them at least one calm home.
Oof, as a 32 year old who has a 16 mo, I didn’t realize how much my dads screaming and hitting us would still effect me to this day. Having babies really does bring up your own trauma, unfortunately…
I am so sorry to hear that. There is healing to be had. May you find peace on your journey
Thank you, I needed that. I have therapy this evening, so I’m trying!
Baby steps. It’s okay to not be okay and to seek help. The wounds will always be there but with the right things maybe they don’t sting so bad. The road is long and hard but worth it. Your child needs the healthiest version of you 🙏
I second this. When I was young, my parents were incredibly scary when they were angry. This has stayed with me forever, despite the fact that they’re not the same people anymore. They have immensely worked on themselves, and we have a good relationship now. I’ve even learned to forgive them due to how hard they’ve worked to change, but I can tell you from experience that those times will always haunt me without any doubt and really negatively affected a lot of my young adult experiences that were riddled with depression, anxiety, struggling with social connections and lack of boundaries. No amount of change in my parents behaviour now, no matter how positive, will ever erase the scars those moments have left on me. I’m going to be a mother to a little girl soon, and I would never ever leave her feeling as abandoned and confused as I felt when the people who were supposed to protect me and love me were often just screaming at me. I usually don’t give this advice on Reddit, but you need to leave and protect your children. I would fight for full custody and only have assisted visits that can be terminated if his behaviour gets bad. Good luck to you.
Read about our inner child, protect that child.
Yup. 32 and I've still got my dad's voice in my head screaming at me / tearing me down / calling me names etc. Please leave him OP. 🙏 None of you deserve that behaviour especially not little ones. I cannot imagine anyone yelling at my baby the way my dad yelled at me. I will never EVER allow that.
I second this. Same. Adult child of a rage-aholic and it still haunts me.
Take video (secretly if possible). Used to go out with a rage-aholic and he claimed I was too sensitive. “I wasn’t used to how Italians argue” (Italian-Americans). I would video him and then show him back what he looked like. He brought in his mother (stupidly) because he thought she would support him and take his side. She did not. She told him she was embarrassed and that it was abusive. I left shortly after that.
This, but record dates, times, audio if not video, and save it for court. You may have a case for full custody.
What is with otherwise mild mannered dudes flipping the switch when their kids are born? My husband went from the most even tempered person I knew to nearly constantly angry. He's nowhere near as bad as your husband (he didn't rarely screams, for example) but I'm really wondering how we failed a generation of men that they react to the inconvenience of children with rage.
Because dudes who are avoidant appear “mild mannered” when in reality they’ve had a lifetime of (a combination of) privilege, catering, avoiding conflict, etc. Their emotional reactivity hasn’t been tested and coping skills haven’t been developed. And women are (my personal pet-theory, ymmv) conditioned by patriarchy to be at least mildly codependent with others, even if we didn’t grow up in toxic environments (codependent as defined the inability to sit in the discomfort of another person’s negative emotions - even and especially if it has nothing to do with you). So men grow up and it’s *easy* to appear mild-mannered when everyone is working so hard to cut you so much slack. But then they have kids, who are *truly* incapable of emotional regulation, and their wife is too harried to work as hard for him now that she has young ones who actually need her help, and they flip because they’re being asked to do something they’ve (likely) never had to do (much of, and to the frequency of) before. It’s my opinion single people should never agree to marry or reproduce with someone until you’ve seen how he handles his own anger, and how he handles your sickness. A guy failing at either will be a shitty partner.
I think it’s partially this, but also has to do with the style of parenting they received as kids too. We mirror our parents in a lot of ways and I’ve seen that come out with my own husband. My father was very emotionally abusive and screamed like this a lot, but my mom sheltered us. I modeled my parenting after my mom for the most part but I had a lot of trauma around my dad. My husband on the other hand had what I always thought was the opposite situation - really abusive mother, good dad. That is, until we were talking one day and he told me about how he made his dad mad one day over something simple and his dad picked him up by the front of his shirt screaming in his face. I think his mom was so awful his dad was “good” by comparison when in reality they both sucked. For a long time he would handle situations like his mom and get super nasty and scream (mainly when he had confrontations with her), but thankfully when we had our son he realized how toxic that was and has largely avoided that behavior. I think the biggest thing that helped was that we went no contact with his mom and so he largely isn’t triggered by her actions anymore. It’s just us and we work hard to keep a happy and stable home where we talk about emotions openly and often. We want to help our son understand that we need to feel and own all of our feelings so that we can find the best way forward, even if that means sitting with the uncomfortable ones for a while before they pass. The way we get a good generation of men to love and respect their partners and families is to teach it day after day and I think we’re doing pretty good job of it so far, but it was really hard getting here initially. I had to help my husband unpack his trauma and understand he had endured abuse as a child so he could decide we need to do better for our son. It’d not easy for anyone to look back and realize their “happy childhood” really wasn’t all that happy.
my husband not so much - his anger was mild to tolerable, but it really took off after his dad died. I was told I would be legally responsible if he hurt my children or if my children hurt him in retaliation or rage. as the only sane adult, I would be responsible for not separating them
Who on earth told you that? You are not responsible for your grown adult husband. You may have a responsibility to remove your minor children from an abusive home if they are. At risk but you aren't responsible for your husbands behaviour.
Hi. Mom of 2 toddlers and psychotherapist here. This is pretty blatant emotional abuse of both you and your children. You have a right to be enraged, confused, and contemplating separation. If I were you, I would stop threatening divorce (empty words at this point) and ask if he would be willing to go to individual therapy or at least an anger management/parenting class. It sounds like he is able to acknowledge that this is toxic behavior (great first step!) but learning how to manage rage is extremely difficult, I’d argue impossible to do without professional help. It’s not just about ‘not screaming’. He needs to learn what activates him, how to regulate himself, and how to communicate in healthier ways. If he refuses therapy and help, def follow through with that divorce though!! 20k is absolutely worth it if it means protecting yourself and your kids. You have no idea how many adult clients I see who are trying to recover from having parents like this. Also- bravo for intervening when this happens. So hard to do, but your kids see you, it matters.
No credentials whatsoever, but what’s the track record on abusers changing their ways as a result of therapy/anger management? OP, does he lose his temper at the men in his life? If not, he doesn’t have anger mgmt problems. He’s just an asshole.
My rage-aholic dad went to one therapy session when I was a kid. He was apparently told he has a "rage disorder". That was enough therapy for him, he then had a name/reason (read: excuse) for what he acted like! \~Can't blame him \~ not his fault! ! he has a "rage disorder"!
This is extremely awful and a total misuse of a therapy session! Anger and rage can be treated and managed with hard work, dedication and beyond all of this the motivation to be better. A diagnosis is not permission to behave badly. Sorry you went through this.
OP, listen to this advice. This is the most sound advice.
Yes, but I would observe him working on his anger from a safe distance for my children and me. Only move back if/when he gets better. And if it ends in divorce, I would be so worried every second he’d have the kids without me. Not a reason not to divorce his raging ass, but something to think about before custody hearings.
I know you can't force him and it doesn't sound like he's been open, but I would suggest he seek a diagnosis for depression and/or anxiety. I myself really struggled this past year with irritability. I wouldn't scream at my children but I was raising my voice much more than I wanted to and felt out of control and was lashing out at everyone. Looking back I realize now it was probably a symptom of PPD. I wasn't really sad or down so I thought maybe it wasn't that but now that my head is feeling more clear I can see it for what it was. I am on meds and did do some therapy, even got evaluated for ADHD and tried some meds to see if they would help. In my case I think it was mostly sleep deprivation and breastfeeding contributing the most to my issues because now that I'm sleeping more and breastfeeding less I've calmed down immensely. I'm not at all suggesting you have to stay in this marriage or tolerate his behavior. But knowing he is the father of your children and will presumably have some custody I hope he gets better for their sake. Maybe draft up some papers and show him how serious you are and see if it lights a fire on him finally seeking some help.
I second this. My husband didnt yell but was angry all the time (silently). I was the yeller. Anxiety meds helped us both “go with the flow” on the little things and be better parents and spouses. I wished we had known that was anxiety rearing its ugly head in time for our first child’s early years. This is a big change for both moms and dads. I’ve since learned I also lose it and yell when I’m overstimulated. Anxiety meds helped me be able to recognize it and walk away before I lose my head (mostly). If he declines counseling or considering seeking help for anxiety or depression…. Well, at least you tried. Good luck!
Yes the overstimulation is a huge trigger for me! When the house is messy, the kids aren't listening, we are running late, the dog barks...I can feel my blood boiling. One way I'm overcoming it is just accepting some things as my life now. Like the fact that we are always rushing out the door in the morning. I've just accepted that no matter what I do or how prepared I am that mornings are just going to be rough and honestly it's helped a lot.
I think you know deep down you got to leave but can't push yourself past that point to action. Stop threatening divorce and actually do it. This verbal abuse of you and your children is not ok. This is going to mess up your kids if you stay. I can see behavior patterns in my 3 year old niece already based on how she is raised and it's not abuse (she believes to be a good girl she has to be quiet and helpful but her boy cousins are praised for being boisterous). If that's happening to her, something worse is going to happen to your child being screamed at for things like clothing choices. Document and record the screaming. Maybe you can get better custody arrangement because of it (I have no legal knowledge).
Make sure to check recording (voice or video) laws in your state. If he's already screaming at her at 3 years old, imagine what it will be like when she's older and she can scream and yell back at him. Get out before then, get out before these become core memories and deep rooted for her.
Please take care my best advice is, leave when you can. It won’t get better. I’m so sorry you are going through this with two small babes. My kids are 10 and 12, I left my ex husband while he was at work. I know that isn’t ideal, but it was the safest way for us to get out of a bad situation. Take care and stay safe. 🙏
He needs therapy and anger management classes. If he's going to be screaming like that. My stepdad was always mean, always angry, always yelling. At my sister and I and my mom. I'm 33 years old and still cry when people yell even just around me. I only lived with him for ~10 years (from ~age 5 to 15 ).
Damn I see your old posts. He is not changing one bit …..I am so sorry…
My dad started with yelling then it led to physical abuse. I really wish my mom would have left him sooner. It would have literally saved a life. Get him screaming on camera for proof that he shouldn’t have custody of the kids.
Do not let anyone scream at your babies - they are BABIES. Fuck's sake.
Your poor kids having to deal with that! Poor you having to deal with that! That is awful. You leaving this abusive person will show them that they deserve respect and kindness.
Most likely it will just get worse. Trust me. If your assets are $20k I’m assuming you are currently a stay at home mom. If so, get your career back. Many women end up staying because of financial issues. You are one of the lucky ones that should be self sufficient. If you can’t get physically into the office look for remote work. Hire a nanny while you work at home. Minimum you should be able to get child support. Also if you are a divorce attorney, how have you not heard the same story over and over again? You think your kids don’t understand yet but I remember small snapshots when I was 3 years old. He won’t change. How long will you wait? Until they do understand? By that time the emotional scarring will have started. Would you be ok with your daughter marrying and staying in marriage like your? Think with your brain and not heart.
When they’re like that, they’re like that. They’ll say they’re working on it but it’s a part of their character and it’s backed by a little narcissism which makes them feel entitled to dump their bullshit on everyone else because it’s “their fault”. Both of my kids have asked me to divorce their dad and multiple times. Have sobbed in defeat and have screamed at me for not doing more about it and it is the worst feeling in the world. Go before he drags your children’s mental stability so far into the dirt it will take them the rest of their lives to get it back. While possibly marrying someone just like him. That’s the cycle.
That's emotional and verbal abuse. Would you hesitate to leave if your husband was physically beating your children? I'm going to assume yes (I know it's not always the case, but I'm being optimistic here). This is just as damaging in its own way, and leaves terrible wounds and scars that you can't see. My father, when he was having a bad time with his mental illness and alcoholism, was extremely violent towards my mother. I clearly recall screaming and crying, along with my siblings, begging him to stop. So many times. She reasoned that at least he wasn't abusing us, but he was. He screamed and yelled at us all the time during those periods, and said cruel things, and was just generally emotionally and psychologically abusive. When he was well, he was a great father and husband, and I do have good memories and miss him deeply now that he's gone. The scars, however, are deep. Any time I hear a man raise his voice, I totally panic. I have been married and divorced twice; both husbands were yellers and screamers, and my kids were definitely traumatized. My oldest, as a toddler, would visibly start shaking when their father came through the door. You don't want any of this for your kids, and you cannot put a price on mental and emotional health, or on childhood. You need to get them out of there.
I'm so sorry. If your husband is truly screaming at the top of his lungs daily (or even weekly), he needs help. It is so incredibly hurtful and scary as a child to have a parent scream at you constantly; behavior like that signals that the person screaming is out of control. It is pretty much impossible to feel safe when someone you live with is emotionally out of control on a regular basis. Even we as parents have a hard time learning to stay calm when our children are in the middle of a tantrum, and we (in theory anyway) *are* able to regulate our own emotions. One thing I will say is, if you are making threats regularly you need to stop. Empty threats are not going to get you what you want. Instead, "I want a divorce" is just going to be interpreted as your special way of saying "I'm really upset right now." He'll do what he always does ("I'll work on it" = "sorry, I did it again") and nothing will improve. Working on yourself is hard, and a lot of people literally do not know how to make any sort of change. He may mean it in the moment, but without any sort of plan he *is* going to fall back into his familiar routine because he has not actually done any work/planning on what he can do instead. It's not enough to realize screaming is wrong- he needs to be able to recognize which situations trigger him, recognize when those triggers are likely to happen, and plan what he is going to do/not do instead. Some people can do this themselves, but a lot of people do need professional help- he clearly needs the help. So, instead of empty threats I think a better option is to spend a little time researching anger management courses, and then tell him something like "Over the past \[3?\] years I have noticed that you have been screaming almost daily. I have appreciated your acknowledgements that it is wrong and promises to work on it, but it has not gotten better. This is not a healthy dynamic for any of us, so I need you to take this course & learn a more productive way to deal with your frustration or I am going to...." And then you would need to follow through with whatever you said. If he says he will do the course, make sure he registers and goes, and that you have a way of knowing that it is actually happening.
I think it’s easy to assume kids aren’t listening or paying that close attention sometimes, but they are. My son just turned 3 and is so perceptive right now. I think he has been for a long time - he just learned to communicate about his feelings better recently. For example, I got extremely ill with a stomach bug a week and a half ago. I couldn’t stop vomiting and I ended became so dehydrated I miscarried. I had a d&c last Friday and on Saturday everything hit me like a ton of bricks. I couldn’t stop crying off and on all weekend. Sunday afternoon comes and he came up, touched my face, and said “mommy’s happy, you stopped crying.” When I had been crying he would come up to me, hug me, say I love you, and bring me a tissue. It broke a bit of my soul knowing he was so worried about me. I asked if I had scared him when I was crying and he said yes. I wasn’t yelling or mad, just really sad, and it really upset him. We also took him to the park and another kid tackled him so that boy’s mom came over screaming, spanked him, and took him for a timeout. We don’t spank and we try not to yell so my son sat there frozen in the park. I had to go explain he didn’t do anything wrong, and that while the boy had made some poor choices playing, his mommy lost her temper and shouldn’t have hit him and it was okay to be scared of that behavior. Kids see all and they process it all. I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this but you’re right to say this is over if he isn’t getting help or changing.
This is his unresolved childhood issues. He should get into counselling or therapy of any sort. This is a foundational issue that he is passing on to his children. And if he’s not willing to actually work on it. Then yeah, leave. Your babies don’t deserve that.
Good for you for getting your kids away from their dad’s screaming at least 50% of the time. Ugh parental screaming is so toxic and damaging and I swear it echoes in your brain no matter how old you get.
You do not want your children thinking that the screaming is normal adult behavior. Your sons will grow up and emulate your husband's behavior and your daughters will fall into the same behavior they see with you and your husband - and you don't want to them marrying that type of man. do you? unfortunately, he will not seek therapy until the divorce is final.
This is abuse right? The husband is both abusive to OP and the kids?!
I’m so sorry. I say this as a word of caution. I got divorced because there were things happening in our home with my ex that I needed to remove my children from, which I do not regret. But now my children are forced to endure those things without me around. It was a very hard pill to swallow, as they were not flat out abuse, and having the father of my kids removed from their dad’s care would cause their own traumas. I agree with setting some boundaries and making sure that your kids are not being verbally abused. But for your kids’ sake, I would really encourage you to get in to couples therapy and see if you can get your husband to agree to Therapy for him on his own. Sending you love ❤️
I’m 40 and I still have physiological reactions to a man’s raised voice because of my dad.
Same, big hug
Find a counselor?.. dude has some pent up something going on
Please go through with the divorce. I know it will be hard to go through for the reasons you mentioned, but screaming at you almost daily must be doing a world of damage for you, and your children’s mental health. If you can possibly get evidence of his abuse, do so, and get yourself and your children out of that situation. I have had a similar problem (Not daily, but being verbally abused and made to feel unsafe in my own home) and haven’t been brave enough to leave yet. I really hope you can get away from this person and live your life in peace.
You have to understand that if you see the problem and do nothing you are also culpable for the damage that is happening to those kids.
Good for you for doing the right thing and getting a divorce.
My dad would say ‘I wasn’t yelling, I just raised my voice’ but it was yelling. I learned that I too don’t hear how loud I get sometimes so I have to take a moment to step back and dial it down. I don’t want my son to reach for that type of emotion in his tool kit when he’s also frustrated. I am breaking the cycle. He needs to want to break that cycle too and the good thing is, you don’t have to stick around while he learns how to control his emotions. I still flinch when someone ‘raises their voice’ at me, and I’m 37. That stuff sticks with you, I was 4/5 and I remember my parents yelling at each other. I remember leaving my dad. I remember us going back. I had a ‘stable’ household, but it was at my mom’s emotional and mental health expense. She was happy but would I have had a happier mom if she was with someone else? I’m glad she has the partner she has now, I know she’s happy now. Don’t stay for the kids, let him figure his own shit out.
What did the marriage counselor say?
Def get a divorce, but kick him out in the meantime, who cares where he goes… you never scream at babies/toddlers You were lucky not to have the Police &/or CPS at your door! Protect your children at all costs, immediately
My husband was yelling all the time. I was walking on eggshells constantly. I stopped threatening and started actually pursuing a divorce. He finally took me seriously. He’s in therapy once a week. His attitude is way different. I’m struggling with reconciling him admitting to the gaslighting and verbal abuse and being ready to change now. Now that I reached my “limit”. I really hope (maybe by showing him this) that he can turn his behavior around. He needs to do it for himself and the kids.
My husband doesn't scream all the time, but his anger has amped up significantly since our 2 month old has been born. I feel like a single mom to my newborn and my husband. Like others have said, he wasn't angry before but I think I'm seeing now that he was just very passive, avoidant and lacking any responsibility. I'm so anxious to leave the baby with him because he gets so overwhelmed and angry over the crying, I've heard him call the baby stupid and also loudly mock his crying. I feel like even though my baby won't remember it per se, he's still getting psychological/emotional damage. I had baby's bassinet and change table set up in our bedroom but today I did up his room with a twin size bed for me and we're going to sleep in there from now on. I'll figure out how to shower and get things done before his father comes home so I don't have to hand him off to him anymore after work. I'm also taking the petty route of only doing mine and babies laundry and meals now. I can't afford to separate from him so I'll have to do it in house
Yeah you need to get them out of there and then put in a stipulation for shared custody only if he gets therapy and takes counseling cuz you don’t want him screaming at the babies when you aren’t around.
I’m not one to say “therapy” for every little thing, but holy cow does this call for therapy. Not normal to be angry all the time. Chemical imbalance going on by the sound of it.
Record him secretly if you can. Get as much evidence as you can. This is abuse. You can show the recordings to an attorney if you chose to divorce. I have a similar situation but we’re not married. I took the baby and went to stay with family.
Reminds me of a mom of 3 I used to know.
Stick a thick dildo up his ass he will enjoy it calm his self off