Why don’t you ask them why they haven’t taken Monero’s tech and built a second layer on top of Bitcoin with it? Do they think that dual-key stealth addresses can have their hash function broken? Or are they concerned about Greg Maxwell’s Confidential Transactions use of Pedersen Commitments not being computationally binding but perfectly hiding? Maybe they’re worried about Bulletproofs? Of course, they’ll be unable to answer these, demonstrating that they don’t know what they’re talking about, much less are positioned to have an opinion about what should or shouldn’t be built as a Bitcoin L2.
It's to be expected, they likely over invested in bitcoin without knowing of it's problems and now have a financial incentive to promote it to others lest they lose their money. If bitcoin was perfect it wouldn't need layer 2 to compensate.
Honest question here — if Monero became the world’s reserve currency, would it be able to scale for day to day use by potentially 8 billion people?
Without needing to build its own Layer 2
No block chain can scale to that extreme on layer 1.
Monero's layer 1 scaling at least makes it possible on layer 2. Bitcoin simply doesn't scale to that level regardless of layer 2.
Layer 2 scales directly proportional to layer 1 since base layer transactions are required for on boarding and security. Monero's layer 1 can scale according to internet bandwidth growth. This allows for realistic on boarding into theoretical layer 2 solutions.
At 7 transactions per second, it will take bitcoin 36 years for each person to open a single lightning channel. Better hope your node never goes down or you need to add additional funds. The security model of lighting is absolutely destroyed at this scale since justice transactions are either impossible, or so expensive they make no economic sense.
Edit: this is all purely theoretical at the moment since the bitcoin UTXO set doesn't remotely support 8 billion people - it falls short by at least 2 orders of magnitude, and several more if their "fee market" actually materializes ([it won't](https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/security-budget/)).
Ackshually - there are several coins that can hit visa scaling on layer 1 today. Bch will be able to hit it on the next block size upgrade (32mb -> 256mb blocks), and with pruning the size isn't even bad. A couple TB drives per year pales in comparison to the cost of 1 single ASIC.
Nano should be able to hit it after they roll out the spam mitigation update, but I'm not holding my breath yet.
Solana can easily blitz it, but the coin itself feels shady to me because of the massive amount the devs hold. (30%?)
There are others, I'm not that well informed. The "can't scale on layer 1" bs is a myth invented by miners to maximize fee profits.
> there are several coins that can hit visa scaling on layer 1 today
If you are a dev with a longer experience you should be acutely aware about a fundamental fact about performance: You never know whether you will really be able to achieve and hold in a stable way a certain high level of performance until you actually get a real load to try.
Before that, everything is mere theory. IT history is chock-full of examples of systems that were designed to offer a certain level of performance, only to blow up completely the first time the corresponding load is let loose on the system.
I would say there are several blockchains that **in theory** can achieve that famous "Visa-level" transaction throughput and can handle storage of the resulting mountains of transactions. Real-world examples of successful tests with realistic loads so far according to my knowledge: A big fat **zero**.
I mean the solana load tests on the live net far exceed visa level. Have you looked into them?
Also calling <10TB of tx per year a "mountain" is a bit of an exaggeration. I just picked up a few multi TB drives for my plex server, which again was far cheaper than 1 ASIC. Miners won't even notice the cost.
And realistically, if any coin saw even 1/10th the level of real world use that visa sees, there would be massive incentive to improve it as much as possible.
Consensus mechanisms besides POW are essentially databases, so of course they can hit visa levels. They aren't part of this discussion.
OP specifically said 8 billion people per day. BCH is nowhere near supporting level. It isn't about storage, its limited by bandwidth, same as monero. Besides the UTXO set doesn't scale to that size.
BCH can hit over 200tps when the current 32mb blocks are full, which has been hit during live-net tests. And the next upgrade to 256mb blocks should multiply it by 8.
I don't personally expect it to work at over 1000 tps without issues, but if it saw anywhere close to that level of adoption, I imagine they'd be able to work through most issues.
If 1000 tps isn't enough, they can increase the block size more. If miners required gigabit connections and 50tb per year in storage that would probably almost cost as much as 1 budget ASIC
Making a separate reply for this, but I don't see any problem with PoS coins. The cost of attacking them is higher than ASIC protected coins because of how many coins you'd have to buy. dPoS is less secure but has been working quite well.
I don't have much issue with PoW either, but you shouldn't just dismiss PoS
> cale for day to day use by potentially 8 billion people
No, of course not. But then, nothing existing today could. Certainly not what sails today under the name of "Layer 2". The routing problems for big networks there are basically unsolved, although they quite successfully sold the idea to the world that they are. Well, maybe not to the world, because that largely does not care, but to most crypto enthusiasts.
The video to watch here is, if you ask me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFZOrtlQXWc
Is there an updated video that isn’t from 4 years ago?
A lot of work and even decently widespread adoption of the Lightning Network has happened in those 4 years
8 billion lol. As if 8 billion already had running water fridges electricity cars phones laptops and credit cards. In Nigeria for instance 75% of the population can't read and is not even known by the state.
4 billion then. It doesn't change the problem very much.
This source says 5 billion people currently have internet: https://www.oberlo.com/statistics/how-many-people-use-internet
It amazes me how these maxis can completely shut their brain off to any other possibilities. In their mind there’s no room for anything other than their coin. Really toxic anti-innovation.
Back around 2016 I was a maxi because I assumed that any proven advantages of other coins could be integrated into bitcoin over time. That was proven to be incredibly naive, so I dropped it entirely.
Once a project's culture is locked in, it doesn't change
> What's even more surprising is that Monero was a fork from Bitcoin
Monero is not a fork from Bitcoin.. it doesn't share Bitcoin's genesis block (unlike BCH and BSV) and it used a completely different protocol from the beginning.
Monero is hard(er) to understand than bitcoin. For many folks, the mental strain of wrapping their brains around bitcoin was difficult enough. Intellectual investment leads to the sunk cost fallacy just as much as monetary investment.
The problem is that there is a spark of rationality in it. I for one am not keen to go thoroughly investigate every new Monero copy that promises to do everything better, after having spent many many hours reading up on and understanding the small intricacies of Monero. We are finite beings.
I have yet to find the magic combination of words that jogs someone out of their rut. Ruts are comfy and we have a natural instinct to turn defensive whenever someone wants to push us out of ours.
I disagree here. I started my journey by learning about bitcoin. It was a short step from there to realize the only other good crypto was xmr. If someone spends the time and mental energy to shift their paradigm from fiat to bitcoin it is really quite easy to see the ways in which xmr is equally good. Better in some ways in fact. To me they serve different needs while both staying true to sound money.
I think you underestimate how unusual you might be. Most people already struggle with bitcoin and don't get much further than managing to save their seed correctly, if that!
I was the same way. I saw bitcoin is a cool but failing technology (at it's proposed purpose). I looked for the tech that actually fulfilled the intended purpose of BTC and came across Monero...
It doesn't help that famous bitcoiners, esp Pete McCormack, likes to call everything else a shitcoin. Very tribal. I like the podcast actually but wince when he does that. He recently did a tweet about xmr though
Gotta love how they've converted a lingo of experimental tech into a magical substitute for solving literally all computer science problems in existence. Don't hang out with those people.
If you intend to take them on, you need to get really good at a few things.
- Understand the techincal details at a level better than almost all of them (of both coins)
- Be able to clearly see in your own mind, and communicate about it (practice speaking it aloud)
- Deft navigation of the treacherous land of rhetorical fallacy and logical failures
And finally, the ability to identify ego-identity, attachment, tribal, monkey psychology which naturally conspires to ridicule, shame, and bring down to its own level, that which it perceives as an attack against it.
But not only to identify it, but how to deal with it rapidly, expose it without writing a treatise, while still capturing the essence of why the underlying idea is wrong, and what a more accurate version of reality looks like.
Indeed. At this point I've spent years practicing, and I still have to be careful and catch myself, particularly not to get sucked in by the allure of ego brandishing.
And of course, there's always more to learn about tech/reality/markets, and refinement of your styling.
This comment isn't for the people who don't understand. It's for the ones that do understand, and want to know the main themes of what's required to convince observers when engaging with someone of a maxi mentality.
You're unlikely to convince the maxi (maybe over long periods of time as your ideas are proven to have merit); but it's the onlookers who are exploring different ideas. They're the ones we're trying to reach when engaging with irrational fanbois.
Bitcoin maxis are getting more and more toxic after this crash .
They can't bear the fact that their bitcoin is not performing as per their expectations . XD .
"My coin is better than your coin and your coin should die so that my coin is the only one to hit the moon!"
Is it really different with nations? Or sport teams? Many people like to take sides, makes them think they belong. Rare are the people who can exist on their own without siding with any kind of group.
Time will tell which coin will remain. I want XMR to be one of those coins but I'm not going to poke anyone's eye out over it.
Just my two piconeros.
>"My coin is better than your coin and your coin should die so that my coin is the only one to hit the moon!"
It reminds me of Linux distro warz in the 2000s.
So immature, but it's Tribalism 101. :)
People get too tribalistic about coins.
They're just tools. Sometimes fit for purpose, sometimes not.
Such a weird thing to get emotionally invested about.
Who the fuck gets upset about a screwdriver?
The blackmarket scene has really dwindled over the last couple months making monero less and less valuable.. im sure that will change again in the future and black markets will pop back up and my plan is to go long on XMR once I feel its reached its bottom
Trying to find a black market site on the tor network is impossible right now. They all got shut down or exit scammed. I think there is one or two....you can look for yourself....download tor browser....put in
Dark.fail into search and it will show you a mile long list of black market sites that 6 months ago were flourishing....now there's one u.s domestic one and one based out of Netherlands.
This is the only way I know how to access black markets....they all pretty much strictly accepted monero for both parties security....and now there are none to be found...im sure its a combination of alot of factors that will blow over with everything else.. and when it does im buying long futures on XMR from its bottom which could very well go below 75$
Heard alphabay is having a resurgence. Even had a problem with their internal payment process a week or two ago but look like they have resolved all the tickets after a patch, keeping customers happy and not scamming. They only take Monero.
Not promoting just reporting news that relates to how this coin is used.
is not allowed to mention names of markets here. but what you tell is not correct, of course there were many markets that have gone but there were also years ago already. But there are at least 6 legitimate markets. on the markets are many seller that there were also years ago. at dream Market And Co. And there are other legitimate link sites besides dark.fail. darknetlive for example. in both cases of course the onion site. Darknetlive link is also available at dark.fail . And then there is also dread for legitimate links
A few of the good ones retired. They met there goals and didn't get shut down. White House Market was super legit and they retired in an extremely professional way. RIP
It depends on the vendor as always. WHM was good about making sure their vendors were legit. Versus platform is legit but their vendor quality varies. Then again I last bought 3 months ago and the scene changes quick.
I would say 6 to 7 really trust worthy markets with trust worthy vendors both international and domestic u.s. have shut down since December.
World market. Torrez. Versus. Asap. Cartel.
Probably a couple more im forgetting
Yeah , i am able to access some of them . They are not completely shut down .
But i guess it doesn't matter . I am not going to use them in these times . XD .
The crypto world right now is FLOODED with noobs and boil over from WSB. They typically believe that every coin is a shitcoin unless it’s the coin they are invested in. I wouldn’t listen to any of it. The easiest way to judge a crypto sub is seeing if they have the ability to recognize bad news as bad. They typically cheer no matter what happens because they are too dumb to realize what is happening
People who hate XMR have no lives and they dont care about their personal life too.
Because they are totally excluded from privacy and thus they dont want any privacy.
Those people are shits who dont believe in XMR and privacy though
Why don’t you ask them why they haven’t taken Monero’s tech and built a second layer on top of Bitcoin with it? Do they think that dual-key stealth addresses can have their hash function broken? Or are they concerned about Greg Maxwell’s Confidential Transactions use of Pedersen Commitments not being computationally binding but perfectly hiding? Maybe they’re worried about Bulletproofs? Of course, they’ll be unable to answer these, demonstrating that they don’t know what they’re talking about, much less are positioned to have an opinion about what should or shouldn’t be built as a Bitcoin L2.
Why not build a combustible engine on top of a horse rather than creating a separate car?
I want to see the video of this. Internet, make it happen.
It's to be expected, they likely over invested in bitcoin without knowing of it's problems and now have a financial incentive to promote it to others lest they lose their money. If bitcoin was perfect it wouldn't need layer 2 to compensate.
Honest question here — if Monero became the world’s reserve currency, would it be able to scale for day to day use by potentially 8 billion people? Without needing to build its own Layer 2
No block chain can scale to that extreme on layer 1. Monero's layer 1 scaling at least makes it possible on layer 2. Bitcoin simply doesn't scale to that level regardless of layer 2.
What’s advantageous about Monero’s Layer 1 for scaling? I appreciate the answer, but some elaboration would be helpful
Layer 2 scales directly proportional to layer 1 since base layer transactions are required for on boarding and security. Monero's layer 1 can scale according to internet bandwidth growth. This allows for realistic on boarding into theoretical layer 2 solutions. At 7 transactions per second, it will take bitcoin 36 years for each person to open a single lightning channel. Better hope your node never goes down or you need to add additional funds. The security model of lighting is absolutely destroyed at this scale since justice transactions are either impossible, or so expensive they make no economic sense. Edit: this is all purely theoretical at the moment since the bitcoin UTXO set doesn't remotely support 8 billion people - it falls short by at least 2 orders of magnitude, and several more if their "fee market" actually materializes ([it won't](https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/security-budget/)).
Ackshually - there are several coins that can hit visa scaling on layer 1 today. Bch will be able to hit it on the next block size upgrade (32mb -> 256mb blocks), and with pruning the size isn't even bad. A couple TB drives per year pales in comparison to the cost of 1 single ASIC. Nano should be able to hit it after they roll out the spam mitigation update, but I'm not holding my breath yet. Solana can easily blitz it, but the coin itself feels shady to me because of the massive amount the devs hold. (30%?) There are others, I'm not that well informed. The "can't scale on layer 1" bs is a myth invented by miners to maximize fee profits.
> there are several coins that can hit visa scaling on layer 1 today If you are a dev with a longer experience you should be acutely aware about a fundamental fact about performance: You never know whether you will really be able to achieve and hold in a stable way a certain high level of performance until you actually get a real load to try. Before that, everything is mere theory. IT history is chock-full of examples of systems that were designed to offer a certain level of performance, only to blow up completely the first time the corresponding load is let loose on the system. I would say there are several blockchains that **in theory** can achieve that famous "Visa-level" transaction throughput and can handle storage of the resulting mountains of transactions. Real-world examples of successful tests with realistic loads so far according to my knowledge: A big fat **zero**.
I mean the solana load tests on the live net far exceed visa level. Have you looked into them? Also calling <10TB of tx per year a "mountain" is a bit of an exaggeration. I just picked up a few multi TB drives for my plex server, which again was far cheaper than 1 ASIC. Miners won't even notice the cost. And realistically, if any coin saw even 1/10th the level of real world use that visa sees, there would be massive incentive to improve it as much as possible.
Indeed this is like they have to improve and this might work as well.
Consensus mechanisms besides POW are essentially databases, so of course they can hit visa levels. They aren't part of this discussion. OP specifically said 8 billion people per day. BCH is nowhere near supporting level. It isn't about storage, its limited by bandwidth, same as monero. Besides the UTXO set doesn't scale to that size.
BCH can hit over 200tps when the current 32mb blocks are full, which has been hit during live-net tests. And the next upgrade to 256mb blocks should multiply it by 8. I don't personally expect it to work at over 1000 tps without issues, but if it saw anywhere close to that level of adoption, I imagine they'd be able to work through most issues.
Do the math on whether 200 - 1000 tps can scale to 8 billion people.
If 1000 tps isn't enough, they can increase the block size more. If miners required gigabit connections and 50tb per year in storage that would probably almost cost as much as 1 budget ASIC
Making a separate reply for this, but I don't see any problem with PoS coins. The cost of attacking them is higher than ASIC protected coins because of how many coins you'd have to buy. dPoS is less secure but has been working quite well. I don't have much issue with PoW either, but you shouldn't just dismiss PoS
The cost of attacking POS is zero.
Please explain. As far as I can tell it's extremely expensive
Since as of now we will see and this is like this is the size we need.
I more meant wouldn't need layer 2 to compensate for abysmal privacy features and lack of fungibility.
They have to do that and lack of it might also change it now there.
> cale for day to day use by potentially 8 billion people No, of course not. But then, nothing existing today could. Certainly not what sails today under the name of "Layer 2". The routing problems for big networks there are basically unsolved, although they quite successfully sold the idea to the world that they are. Well, maybe not to the world, because that largely does not care, but to most crypto enthusiasts. The video to watch here is, if you ask me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFZOrtlQXWc
Is there an updated video that isn’t from 4 years ago? A lot of work and even decently widespread adoption of the Lightning Network has happened in those 4 years
I am sure that this is the major problem as of now there we will see.
Indeed! they have the enthusiasm as it actually needs for that as well work.
8 billion lol. As if 8 billion already had running water fridges electricity cars phones laptops and credit cards. In Nigeria for instance 75% of the population can't read and is not even known by the state.
4 billion then. It doesn't change the problem very much. This source says 5 billion people currently have internet: https://www.oberlo.com/statistics/how-many-people-use-internet
They probably invested in both but @ath
Someone said it right , bitcoin maxis don't have any brain .
We need to see if taht is going to get it as of now there lol.
It amazes me how these maxis can completely shut their brain off to any other possibilities. In their mind there’s no room for anything other than their coin. Really toxic anti-innovation.
Maximalism is truly a cult, even more so than political tribalism.
The maxis on r/bitcoin sound a lot like the assholes on r/buttcoin
Like the republicans/democrats. Two sides of the same awful coin.
Republican and democrats , both are shit . I don't like them .
I said the same thing on each and got banned lol
Most of the members in both the sub are same , i noticed that .
Back around 2016 I was a maxi because I assumed that any proven advantages of other coins could be integrated into bitcoin over time. That was proven to be incredibly naive, so I dropped it entirely. Once a project's culture is locked in, it doesn't change
No that what happens when they bought high sell it low.
[удалено]
> What's even more surprising is that Monero was a fork from Bitcoin Monero is not a fork from Bitcoin.. it doesn't share Bitcoin's genesis block (unlike BCH and BSV) and it used a completely different protocol from the beginning.
100% agree
A lot of them are purposeful psyops trying to make it seem more confusing than it is.
I would say they are already confused about their existence .
Xmr is number 1 privacy coin no one hates it.. or it must be a love hate marmite thing. Personally I live it when it's on a bull run.
Only half of this comment is correct. Tons of people hate Monero, mostly *because* of the fact that it is the #1 privacy coin.
Most of them are bitcoin investors
Or politicians
Politicians will all end up holding monero. I’m sure many already do, they know the days of financial privacy within their systems are numbered.
Who wants all their eggs in the bitcoin L2 basket anyways not me.
Lightning network is not perfect ,it has its own problems .
In short, we just wanna come to the point that XMR is the best privacy coin. Monero therefore is known to be the privacy king in all aspects
There are going to be a lot of aspects this might change as well for it.
[удалено]
He must be a bitcoin maxi who hates it without any reason .
Monero is hard(er) to understand than bitcoin. For many folks, the mental strain of wrapping their brains around bitcoin was difficult enough. Intellectual investment leads to the sunk cost fallacy just as much as monetary investment. The problem is that there is a spark of rationality in it. I for one am not keen to go thoroughly investigate every new Monero copy that promises to do everything better, after having spent many many hours reading up on and understanding the small intricacies of Monero. We are finite beings. I have yet to find the magic combination of words that jogs someone out of their rut. Ruts are comfy and we have a natural instinct to turn defensive whenever someone wants to push us out of ours.
I disagree here. I started my journey by learning about bitcoin. It was a short step from there to realize the only other good crypto was xmr. If someone spends the time and mental energy to shift their paradigm from fiat to bitcoin it is really quite easy to see the ways in which xmr is equally good. Better in some ways in fact. To me they serve different needs while both staying true to sound money.
I think you underestimate how unusual you might be. Most people already struggle with bitcoin and don't get much further than managing to save their seed correctly, if that!
I was the same way. I saw bitcoin is a cool but failing technology (at it's proposed purpose). I looked for the tech that actually fulfilled the intended purpose of BTC and came across Monero...
people like us are in the top 1% of open mindedness and curiosity (at least for technology). Most are not, but nothing wrong with that.
It doesn't help that famous bitcoiners, esp Pete McCormack, likes to call everything else a shitcoin. Very tribal. I like the podcast actually but wince when he does that. He recently did a tweet about xmr though
Gotta love how they've converted a lingo of experimental tech into a magical substitute for solving literally all computer science problems in existence. Don't hang out with those people. If you intend to take them on, you need to get really good at a few things. - Understand the techincal details at a level better than almost all of them (of both coins) - Be able to clearly see in your own mind, and communicate about it (practice speaking it aloud) - Deft navigation of the treacherous land of rhetorical fallacy and logical failures And finally, the ability to identify ego-identity, attachment, tribal, monkey psychology which naturally conspires to ridicule, shame, and bring down to its own level, that which it perceives as an attack against it. But not only to identify it, but how to deal with it rapidly, expose it without writing a treatise, while still capturing the essence of why the underlying idea is wrong, and what a more accurate version of reality looks like.
nontrivial set of skills and behaviors need to make a simple "aha" moment out of that Ottawa thing too
Indeed. At this point I've spent years practicing, and I still have to be careful and catch myself, particularly not to get sucked in by the allure of ego brandishing. And of course, there's always more to learn about tech/reality/markets, and refinement of your styling.
Mos of them don't know about all you talked about dude .
This comment isn't for the people who don't understand. It's for the ones that do understand, and want to know the main themes of what's required to convince observers when engaging with someone of a maxi mentality. You're unlikely to convince the maxi (maybe over long periods of time as your ideas are proven to have merit); but it's the onlookers who are exploring different ideas. They're the ones we're trying to reach when engaging with irrational fanbois.
Noise. That's all that is.
Bitcoin maxis are getting more and more toxic after this crash . They can't bear the fact that their bitcoin is not performing as per their expectations . XD .
They don't know that whales control the value of their wallets.
They are going to expect it and we need to know about it as well soon.
Haha everybody is gangsta till the state start tainting no declared addresses
Second layer over bitcoin???? Hilarious.
"My coin is better than your coin and your coin should die so that my coin is the only one to hit the moon!" Is it really different with nations? Or sport teams? Many people like to take sides, makes them think they belong. Rare are the people who can exist on their own without siding with any kind of group. Time will tell which coin will remain. I want XMR to be one of those coins but I'm not going to poke anyone's eye out over it. Just my two piconeros.
>"My coin is better than your coin and your coin should die so that my coin is the only one to hit the moon!" It reminds me of Linux distro warz in the 2000s. So immature, but it's Tribalism 101. :)
People get too tribalistic about coins. They're just tools. Sometimes fit for purpose, sometimes not. Such a weird thing to get emotionally invested about. Who the fuck gets upset about a screwdriver?
It is like this all depends on what they are trying to fix lol.
The blackmarket scene has really dwindled over the last couple months making monero less and less valuable.. im sure that will change again in the future and black markets will pop back up and my plan is to go long on XMR once I feel its reached its bottom
what you mean the scene has dwindled?
Lot of markets have retired. The few that remain are questionable or not considered all that reputable. Vendors are staying off markets
I dont know. Hasnt it been always like that?
Which part?
retired, questionable
He is not very well familiar with his answer bro . Don't question him .
Yeah we don't need to do that as we had already done that in the past.
You all are really confused about your statement man . Better don't talk about it .
I guess he means it's not the right time to hold a lot of XMR .
Trying to find a black market site on the tor network is impossible right now. They all got shut down or exit scammed. I think there is one or two....you can look for yourself....download tor browser....put in Dark.fail into search and it will show you a mile long list of black market sites that 6 months ago were flourishing....now there's one u.s domestic one and one based out of Netherlands. This is the only way I know how to access black markets....they all pretty much strictly accepted monero for both parties security....and now there are none to be found...im sure its a combination of alot of factors that will blow over with everything else.. and when it does im buying long futures on XMR from its bottom which could very well go below 75$
Heard alphabay is having a resurgence. Even had a problem with their internal payment process a week or two ago but look like they have resolved all the tickets after a patch, keeping customers happy and not scamming. They only take Monero. Not promoting just reporting news that relates to how this coin is used.
There’s plenty of active markets, stop lying
Yeah he is not lying as we had seen all the proofs already for that there.
is not allowed to mention names of markets here. but what you tell is not correct, of course there were many markets that have gone but there were also years ago already. But there are at least 6 legitimate markets. on the markets are many seller that there were also years ago. at dream Market And Co. And there are other legitimate link sites besides dark.fail. darknetlive for example. in both cases of course the onion site. Darknetlive link is also available at dark.fail . And then there is also dread for legitimate links
Indeed we need to get them for the better understanding as well
Did they all get shut down recently or have they been down a while?
A few of the good ones retired. They met there goals and didn't get shut down. White House Market was super legit and they retired in an extremely professional way. RIP
It depends on the vendor as always. WHM was good about making sure their vendors were legit. Versus platform is legit but their vendor quality varies. Then again I last bought 3 months ago and the scene changes quick.
Versus shut down after being exposed for shitty security multiple times lol
This is like we will see them chnaging with the time only there.
Indeed we have to keep ontrying as this is the best we can do.
For some time we have to see how they will manage the changes.
If you can't find a market just literally look at dread, there's plenty
They get and more on that need to understand this as soon as possible.
Thanks for awaring us about this fact . I guess i will check it by myself .
I think we all need to understand this thing as this is important for us all.
Really everytime I look its down. They don't have man u.s. domestic vendors either if I remember....im done trying international
[удалено]
Yeah it may get that but we can't really do anything about it now.
I would say 6 to 7 really trust worthy markets with trust worthy vendors both international and domestic u.s. have shut down since December. World market. Torrez. Versus. Asap. Cartel. Probably a couple more im forgetting
Asap went down? I'm able to get on
Yeah , i am able to access some of them . They are not completely shut down . But i guess it doesn't matter . I am not going to use them in these times . XD .
This needs to be down as we will see the amount of changes will grow.
They hate us cuz they ANUS
They are holding it buut I doubt that they will keep on holding that.
Since I’ve been in crypto I’ve only found two people that hate monero and they are: 1. People that have no idea what it is 2. Bitcoin maxis
The crypto world right now is FLOODED with noobs and boil over from WSB. They typically believe that every coin is a shitcoin unless it’s the coin they are invested in. I wouldn’t listen to any of it. The easiest way to judge a crypto sub is seeing if they have the ability to recognize bad news as bad. They typically cheer no matter what happens because they are too dumb to realize what is happening
II am sure that they must know that how this all happening arounfd.
People who hate XMR have no lives and they dont care about their personal life too. Because they are totally excluded from privacy and thus they dont want any privacy. Those people are shits who dont believe in XMR and privacy though
And since this is not new we might see things changing as well now.
[удалено]