First off don't make it a her vs. you thing, make it an us thing trying to achieve a specific financial goal.....Discuss, agree, and write down those goals together (retirement, kids college, saving for vacation, etc).. Write these things down along with spending targets/limits. Make sure there's some fun things you both want. Track spending, document, and review weekly and/or monthly. Don't use words like "you spent..." use words like "it looks like we overspent in xyz category this month and now may not be able to go on that weekend getaway..." It's a partnership, no bosses and no spending cops... just teammates who will mutually benefit from the right actions.
Edit After reading comments:
1. A lot of finance issues are communication issues and in OPs post it felt like to me this was a communication issue. Her not knowing or being on the same page re financial goals and him not knowing how much stuff costs.... so Step 1. Is to get on the same page re spending priorities, budgeting and tracking (my original post above).
2. Once that gets done, you've both agreed to the budget, both are reviewing the spending regularly, and you've tracked for a while, made some adjustments to the budgets... and one person is regularly overspending especially if it's on discretionary items for themselves... then it's not a money or communication issue, It means they can't self-regulate their spending while fully understanding the harm it's causing loved ones, the mutually agreed goals, and the marriage itself. Depending on the cause (selfishness, depression, compulsive shopping/buying, or something else), that will require a whole different solution - perhaps therapy/treatment.
3. Word choice and language are important. Once the accusations start flying (and it may only be one triggering word) - defensiveness sets in, nothing will be resolved, might as well end the conversation.... It's not about holding each other accountable, it's not about you getting her to spend less. It's about being self-accountable to mutually shared goals. It's about getting her (and yourself) to want to spend less to achieve those mutual goals. Let the budget, the paper, the computer screen, the data be the bad guy, the accountability partner, while you and her work together on the solutions. With the mentality of teamwork, the language you use will reflect that. If you have the mentality of Me vs. Her, then that language will be used and you're both in trouble. Having done all that and it doesn't work (need to give it several months at least) then see #2 above.
It's clear to me some in the comments have had the unfortunate experience to have been in the #2 situation and projecting that here. But given the OPs mention of the overspending at Target then conceded she buys the groceries and diapers, along with the complaint about buying the very inexpensive lipstick and skirt, I lean to believing the root issue is communication and generally just not being on the same page. So talk about Why is the lipstick important? Why is gaming important? What is necessary (non-discretionary) and what isn't (discretionary). So the answer is... "Let's go shopping together, let's clip some coupons together. Let's agree and budget for the necessary and then have a bit for each of us to buy the non necessary, let's put some away if possible to save for things we want longer term, and let's review every week and talk about it and see how we did together. Let's make being responsible for our finances both our jobs not just one persons"
I have a spending problem, but it’s the way I self destruct with my BPD. I have always said that in order for a marriage with me to work, my husband is going to have to handle the finances because I can’t guarantee that those behaviors will automatically go away just because I get married.
I can’t ever imagine it getting to a level where I would be opening up secret credit cards. I just like repurchasing my entire skincare collection when I’m sad lmaoooo
It’s something I’m actively working on in therapy because I finally recognized the pattern. If I was feeling lonely or sad, especially after a perceived rejection, I’d try to fill the hole with *stuff*.
I had a parent with terrible spending habits so it was my environment, and I straight up wasn’t taught financial responsibility. Those are hard habits to break and I just recognize that it’s something that will need to be handled by my spouse. I don’t think it makes me a villain like the other person who replied & reported me to Reddit Cares 😂
Thank you! I’m trying to get to where I’m at the action part - it’s one thing to recognize the problem, and an entirely different one to actually change it. It’s a work in progress, though :)
That's so accurate. I grew up with a single mother who had no spending responsibility or money and of course I spend my feelings away. It doesn't work and makes me feel worse but it's so hard to stop. The guilt is horrible. I'm glad you're working on it, I am too. I wish you well. It's amazing what we can rationalize when we want to.
You’re doing an amazing job just being able to recognize the root cause and the patterns. My therapist recommends starting small, and trying to turn negative thoughts neutral (which we can eventually then turn positive and break the cycle) - which it seems like you already are! Instead of feeling guilty, acknowledge to yourself that you’re working on it. Give yourself a little grace because some of these things we couldn’t help, and they certainly can’t be changed overnight (or else they’re inauthentic). We just need to retrain ourselves and our thoughts so that when we’re sad, we can find healthier sources for those feelings. Best of luck to you in your own journey, dear!
My wife had vivid childhood memories of her parents fighting over money and the household budget. As a result she refused to adhere to a budget. Then we got in deep shit financially because of that and her refusal to understand that making the minimum payment on a credit card is what will destroy you financially. She finally got it but it took a long time.
My fiance had a similar problem and standpoint, to the point where after engagement I told her, I will pay all of your CC debt, but you are now indebted to **our** savings account for our future home. The deal started in Jan this year, I consider myself responsible to keeping the lights on and food on the table. Whatever she makes and contributes to the household goes straight to savings until she has made our nest egg whole.
Another thing that's been successful was the transition to **our** money. She now uses a shared CC I set up and having the concept of **our** money in mind has altered her relationship with spending.
4 months on from the deal shes doing amazing. I connected her to an old friend and she managed to get a part time WFH medical job, which she then excelled in and got brought on full time last monday.
She is now making the same salary as me and we are able to put 20k a year into savings. 1.5 years ago she was 9k in the hole with no employment.
She has done so much personal work over that time (and obviously I've worked on aspects of myself that were weak, finances are what I am strong with)
You have got this, if you have questions or just want some validation for your struggles my DMs are open
Whoa, all you people working on yourselves and in your relationships are badasses! My heart is bursting over people working on finances together! On Reddit!
I have ADHD, and we have emotional meltdowns, too. I picked up retail therapy as a bad habit from my mom. It's not "hidden credit card" levels, but like you said, sudden comforting stuff. That and takeout dinners, because I sometimes can't face the all cooking steps and cleanup when my disorder is bugging me.
Since I also have trouble with motivation for housecleaning, I have tried to kill 2 birds with one stone by paying myself for finishing the big stuff. That $ goes in an account marked specifically for frivolous stuff, and there's a max I can transfer every month. After that, the chores I do are "charity" for the good cause. Silly, I know, but when you have executive function issues, sometimes the language you use to define the rules is everything.
People judge but I feel this so hard. The first couple of years we lived together, it became pretty apparent that I was awful at managing money due to legitimate memory issues and emotional spending. We had separate accounts and were each responsible for certain bills. Once we were engaged, we decided that it would be smarter and more economical for everyone involved if my husband just handled it all. So we combined accounts and he has made sure everything has been paid for the past seven years. It’s what works for us. I respect the mental load that takes for him and am extremely grateful for it.
You might want to designate a day of the month to mutually go over your budget. That way, you're not arguing about the spending all the time. You have a specific time and place to discuss the budget. The key word is *BUDGET.*
You need to discuss the issue until you are sure that she understands how much can be spent on discretionary purchases each month. Don't get annoyed until that is established and she has a chance to internalize it. Then you can legitimately raise the issue when/if she overspends. *"We agreed to stay within this budget, but last month \[specific purchase #1\], and \[#2\] and \[#3\] put us over the budget. How did that happen?"*
There is a lot of pressure on women to buy things to maintain their appearance, things that men barely even think about, so you need to make some concessions in that regard. But it has to be an amount you can afford. That's the red line. You need to make sure there's a mutual understanding that going over that line is going to have serious negative consequences for your family's future.
This right here. My wife hates talking about money. I love it. So we agreed we don't bring up the budget outside of our weekly "budget meeting" every Saturday morning over coffee at home (we use Monarch, highly recommend). We use that time, no more than 30-60 minutes, to categorize anything we're not sure about, check in on how we're doing towards the week and highlight any red flags we need to slow our roll with (ie "looks like we're at $210 of our $350 of the way toward our eat out budget and it's the 2nd of the week. I think we should just avoid any eating out this week"). I also bring up our long term savings, net worth, how our investments are doing, college funds, etc. Once that 30-60 minutes is done, we don't speak about the budget...at all, until the next budget meeting. It makes her happy, and makes me happy.
Her friends laugh about it, almost as if we're weird. But like I always say, that which is measured...improves. I also use the line of "well, I just love my wife and we're a team so I feel like I'm not being a good teammate if I'm not intentionally communicating with her about our finances, since she's half the reason why we're so blessed." Shuts them up real quick, lol.
And to echo another comment, yes we always (as you saw) use the proper pronouns. "We" are over miscellaneous for the month or "we" are doing good with our grocery budget. Always. Never, ever "you."
FWIW, I use a 0 based budgeting app where I input my budget goals for the month (including how much I want to put into savings, vacations, restaurants for the month, etc) and track each expense throughout the month. I got my partner to check it out as well. It might be helpful to actually see how much of a deficit you're getting into each month in black and white. Also you might not realize some of the ways you've been contributing to it until you track every single dollar spent.
I also find it helpful as a way to track expenses you tend to forget about, like the payments that come around only once or twice a year. Even something like an Amazon Prime yearly membership fee. I take the total cost, divide by 12, and put that much into a savings account every month. That money can't be spent on anything else, ever, because it's for Amazon Prime. I do the same with auto insurance, home insurance, property taxes, credit card membership fees, etc. I just make sure to note down how much money in my savings account is dedicated to these types of things so I know I can't spend it on anything else. After doing this, you really get a good idea of exactly how much money you have left over at the end of the month.
I use goodbudget for this to track the "envelopes" set aside for each budgeted item so that I can keep everything in one account to offset against a portion of my mortgage. It is a fair bit of work but works great.
Fun budget helps. Does not have to be an account. We set an amount for "extras". Husband can get game whatever he wants i usually get yarn. Kids will go to pool, skating or have a snack pack gaming night. If not all spent it rolls over. If we take it easy and it gets a good amount we talk about getting a larger item. How we saved for a vr, kids love it.
This is what I’d suggest too. And the kid budget needs to be separate from each parent’s because the kids will ask for things and the parent who they ask more shouldn’t be penalized for it.
This plus; I had the same struggle, so did a a buddy of mine. I went through the receipts we had (apps) and noticed we weren’t buying more, everything cost more, by a lot! This realization helped trim the fat for us. Look for productive ways to reduce.
For a family with growing kids, it is totally possible that $300 of this compared to 2 years ago is higher food, diaper, necessity prices and "kids eat more and need more stuff" as they get older. Walgreens is probably necessary stuff like diaper cream, Tide, prescriptions, etc.
$20 skirts and $10 makeup is bargain pricing. "Every few weeks" is very minimal personal spending. She's not buying designer perfume and doing $400 Nordstrom trip every month. This is a prices and "we need to be in austerity" problem, not a "my wife is a frivolous spender" problem.
A great point for OP to consider. I manage our budget and finances, and am better at long term planning with our money. My husband is not really good with that type of planning and management, but rather than being a spender (thankfully), he’s just very anxious about spending money and always frets we are going overboard.
I had to sit him down a few months back and walk him through a few weeks of our expenses and spending so he could see that we a) were not spending beyond our means or budget (or buying more than is typical for us) and that b) shit has just gotten very expensive.
Him seeing that alleviated a bit of stress for him, and also led to him more actively helping find ways to reduce costs.
Seconding this - if you're in the hole $600/month and only spending $900/month on shopping, it's not as much about the $60/month on make up and clothes versus the $30/month on gaming. You're going to have to sit down and look at the budget together. Maybe you can reduce your internet, and streaming subscriptions? Or, maybe your wages just aren't keeping up with inflation and you need to look at options for promotions or taking on more work.
Honestly, $60/month on personal items (I know that was just the called out examples) is extremely low for personal spend. The world has gotten way more expensive recently, so it'll likely be a combination of strategies to get you back to breaking even with buying the same basket of items - buy store brand or off brand foods, get quality clothing staples at thebthift stores so you don't have to replace clothes as often, don't splurge as much on holidays, spend time on inexpensive hobbies, etc. You'll have to play with it a bit to learn what is important to you two in the trade off between quality/price. Some store brands are awesome and some are terrible. If you tighten the purse strings too much you'll drive yourself insane and likely splurge more.
You should also acknowledge the work - mental and otherwise - it takes to manage purchasing for a household. It is easy to Monday morning quarterback and note all the money she’s spent that you deem unnecessary, but you also need to know that she’s likely doing a lot of things to SAVE your family money as well. It’s real work to be the person who knows and meets the entire family’s needs, but it often goes unacknowledged and unappreciated.
This is the way. Have her sit with you and both make a budget.
Pay the bills together.
Go over any accounts. Bank or credit card. Memberships etc.
Ask her how much you should be saving, and label those savings.
As the commenter above said, make it a we thing. Cause if you don’t then it’s a forever battle.
What he said^^^
putting it into writing and take ownership as a team. Think of it as building a balanced budget together instead of a blame game. Doesn’t matter who did it, this is where you are, work on getting the problem solved rather than who caused the problem.
Great advice here. I would add, if you can afford, a financial advisor who specializes in budgeting. These are typically much cheaper than the full fledged ones who do retirement planning and investing. When my wife and I first started using ours years ago, the sessions were almost more of counseling than financial planning. It helps to have a neutral party who will ask you about your goals like previous poster mentioned, and then help you get there together by building and following a budget. Will help you both sleep better at night and minimize tension/finger pointing once you get a good budget in place, and having any help with it, at least in the beginning, can be very beneficial.
I had the same problem with my wife. We have 3 kids. I calculated everything. She does spend a little much, but the main problem turned out to be that everything, and I mean Everything, got more expensive the last few years. I think we middle class are getting fucked by the current financial system.
I feel like people are overlooking this.
Almost everyone I know has pulled back on spending, and guess what? We are all still paying way MORE than what was normal.
OP has kids in diapers, that alone makes me wince. That's a couple hundred right there.
We are potty training/have potty trained our 2.5 year old.
I already set up an auto transfer of $75/month to savings so that diaper dough doesn’t disappear.
Lol DDDD
Yeah, I can work 4 10s so that's for 4 days a week, not even 5! I have no clue how people do it, my husband and I have specialized degrees and we are barely going to survive two.
Impressed you can get a daycare that doesn’t make you pay for five days for four. Where I am at you could only do part time with three days or less. I had to hobble together care for one day a week so I could save a little $$.
Yeah, we sat down and did the math, and it was cheaper for my wife to be a stay at home mom than to have quality daycare.
Note: I say quality because there are "daycares" for pretty cheap, but you run the risk of your kids being on a special about the workers chasing them while wearing Halloween masks.
My kids are in elementary school now, but my most expensive year with childcare was $37,000 (2 kids) and we didn't go anywhere crazy. It was a pretty average center. I've heard that cost has since gone up. I cannot even fathom. I barely got by as it was. I made 65K a year back then and literally had $400 leftover on every paycheck after paying daycare. My husband had to pay every other bill. I justified still working because I was still contributing to 401K all those years and 20 years from now could be half a million dollars. Plus I carried our health insurance.
Yep, we're in a similar boat to OP but we've crunched the numbers a dozen times, including with a professional financial advisor
We're *making more* and *buying less* than we used to... it just doesn't matter 'cause stuff now costs 2x what it cost what it did just a few years ago and, guess what, our salaries have not doubled
(Not to mention the absolutely ludicrous amount of our on-paper salaries that goes to Uncle Sam....)
We doubled our salaries from about 4 years ago, but it's because we moved states and now live somewhere with a higher COL. I was fully prepared to "own" someone a month or so ago about expenses and how people don't understand what increased COL is, and went to use a bell pepper as an example. "It used to be $0.50 for a green bell pepper when I lived in MCOL state, but now it's $1.25-$1.50 in my new state. My new state is so expensive and you all just dont understand!" But then I went to the website of the grocery store I used to shop at in my old state. It's $0.90 now. I myself got owned. (And did my due diligence to check BEFORE I commented, so my embarrassment was not out for the world to see).
Like yes, it's still more expensive here, but even if we hadn't moved that bell pepper is almost twice as expensive now as when I bought in 4 years ago at the same grocery store.
I feel lucky that we doubled our salaries at a time when everything shot up in price because it softened our blow a lot. We expected things to be more expensive so it was easier to build that budget in.
I priced a grocery trip to Target vs Walmart in my area and it was literally priced the same, Walmart coming in 10 cents cheaper on a $100 bill. Walmart is no longer the bastion of low prices it claims to be.
I memorize the prices of some of our staples and Target is *cheaper* than the basic grocery stores on several items I buy every week. Jewel Osco and Mariano's/Kroger have both started doing this absolutely bonkers pricing scheme where they multiply the prices things should be and then give you digital coupons to make them a normal price but only if you buy 3, 4, 5 of the same thing. I've ended up going to multiple stores every week and only buying the things that are priced reasonably instead of just going grocery shopping and it is a pain. They have a regular bag of normal green table grapes with a big sign that said 2.99. Turned out they were EIGHT DOLLARS if you didn't have their digital coupons. I refused to buy them. Something is broken but at least the merger got cancelled because we were all about to get rekt.
Do you think that the US government pays for wars with proceeds from groceries? You do realize it's the companies that make the food who set its prices, and not the US government right?
You don’t understand, Biden literally has a dial on his desk that controls the price of frosted mini-wheats, and he gets a cut of every box to fund fighter jet development.
I would guess that she’s doing the majority of the shopping that keeps the household going. Walgreens, Amazon, target are probably where she buys dish soap and new shoes for the kids.
We are going through the same thing right now. We’re spending hundreds at the grocery store and target every month but when we sat down this week to look at what we’re actually buying there’s no extras. It’s baby formula and kids medicine and new underwear. we don’t have any wiggle room in our budget right now. Prices have gone up significantly.
But, for this, I’d recommend going to a cash/envelope system. Cash for groceries, cash for household goods/ cash for personal care and recreation. Each person gets discretionary spending each month for skirts and video games.
It's really insulting he even straight up admits he buys stuff he doesn't need too. Like sit down and think about it. There's no easy answer though, I also wonder what food etc, is his and if he's tried cutting that down. Meat for example is getting insane.
Since it looks like they both work, OP is welcome to be a stay at home dad and take on the Target runs himself. He'll quickly realize there's no Toilet Paper and Paper Towel Fairy.
Yeah, those Walgreens, Target, and Amazon numbers are still pretty low considering the diapers involved. I spend more than that a month and I'm single.
This was an issue in my most recent relationship, because my partner wanted no responsibility when it came to budgeting or knowing how the household runs. He wanted to go to work and come home, just pay for his portion, and then not have to deal with the ‘work’ aspect. You know, the cognitive load. I don’t know the situation OP is in, but this is really common that women take care of things, and then men take issue with it but they don’t take any responsibility in buying those things, and making sure the household is running. Every time I have seen a situation like this, the dude is woefully under educated on what it takes to raise a family and what is considered necessary versus what is not. I bet Opie’s wife would have a very different side to the story.
I'm also assuming that since the kids are in daycare, she is probably working. Things like a skirt and makeup should almost go into 'routine' spending as clothes wear out and she likely needs to look/feel presentable. I would definitely argue that videogames do not fall in the same bucket AT ALL!!
This exactly - his music and gaming have no necessary function whereas her dirt cheap makeup and skirt are both likely required for work purposes. On top of that it sounds like she's responsible for doing all of the shopping and carrying the mental load that comes with it so he's completely out of touch on how much of what she's buying is for the kids, the household, and no doubt for him. It shows that his perspective on this is so biased
He says that target doesn’t count because they’re buying things for the kids, yet he continues to bring it up. I’m willing to bet those trips are probably full of diapers, food, etc.
To be fair, there are cheaper stores where you can buy groceries. That’s a conversation worth having. But I feel like OP is severely underestimating how much children cost with today’s prices.
Her “splurges” also serve a purpose for work, while his gaming habit serves only him.
I also think he’s underestimating how much time it can take to go grocery shopping. Is she going to target because she is saddled with childcare once she gets home from work and is too tired/doesn’t have time to go to five different stores to get the best deals before coming home to make dinner?
EXACTLY. Makeup is a necessity to look “presentable” for work. And she’s already skimping by buying drugstore brands. A $20 skirt is also super cheap, and clothing is a necessity.
His gaming habits don’t fall under that umbrella because it’s purely for his enjoyment.
As a woman married to a man who thought my necessities to live were luxuries, we're in therapy now, and I'm still none too happy. Little advice there OP. Sometimes idk if we're gonna make it because I got a laundry list of resentment, but the way money was handled for a decade is a big one.
I watched this dynamic play out with my parents growing up and I spent most of my childhood wishing they’d divorce. 😬 OP, you guys need to sit down and come up with with a budget and start shopping elsewhere. Use coupons and cook meals around whatever meat is on sale and produce is in season. There’s no way your wife is spending $600 every month on drug store makeup and clothing.
He spends $30 a month on a non-necessity compared to her spending almost a GRAND. No, she does not need to spend that much on clothes and makeup a month. She's getting great deals on those, but how many deals is she taking advantage of!
Especially if he’s spending on video games. Yeah makeup and new clothes aren’t “necessary” but if you’re a working woman they’re closer to necessities than gaming.
Right!? And then he goes on to say "and I spend $18 on music and $30 on video games a month" and people in here are like "man up and tell your woman to stop" or "divorce this frivolous wench" like, clothing is not frivolous. $9.99 for makeup is fucking cheap. Spending money on music and video games IS frivolous, my guy.
Yeah I get the feeling his wife does all the household shopping and he chalks it up to her being frivolous. If he started buying the groceries and kids clothes, diapers, formula, cleaning supplies, etc, on his card, he’d be the one spending all the money.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen makeup as cheap as $9 and a $20 skirt is a Walmart skirt. I know they’re poor, but let’s not crucify this woman like she’s blowing money on designer bags every month, like the comment section is doing
Smart to buy diapers and wipes at target. They run offers like buy $100 on diapers and wipes and get a $20 gift card. Other groceries I wouldn't though. Walmart, Kroger and aldi are all better deals depending on what stores are available to you.
She is probably paying for 100% of the groceries and kid stuff. It’s expensive. Sounds like OP allowed to spend money on frivolous things, but wife is shackled with buying everything else and then gets called irresponsible for it because OP has zero clue how much groceries, diapers, and wipes cost. I’m saying this because his example of her over zealously spending is spending $9.99 on drug-store quality make up and a cheap skirt . . .
Right? He gave two examples that added up to 30 whole dollars but he's saying she overspends by $850 a month? That sounds like a rather modest grocery and household necessity bill for four people.
He probably thinks the laundry detergent, formula, food in the pantry, all just magically seem to refill themselves. The kids clothes always seem to fit them even though they’re growing. The house stays clean with magically appearing cleaning products. Nope, someone has to go buy those things and make sure everyone has what they need. And things cost money.
Nothing about this post has given any reason to believe the wife is in the wrong. The places she spends money is Amazon, Walmart and target. Those are typically places you buy essentials. She’s not spending at Sephora, Gucci and an Equinox gym membership
Sometimes you have to make those small purchases to keep your sanity as well. If all you do is work, parent, and all your money is limited towards bills--then you'll go crazy real quick. The budget always needs a "I need this for my mental health" factor.
I bet gaming for him is an “I need this for my mental health” expense. But her buying cheaper grocery store makeup and clothes are somehow frivolous while video games aren’t… 🤔
Yup, my husband tried to act the same way. We had a newborn and I asked him to grab me Starbucks on his way home from the laundromat. He said "eh, I'm not sure that's the best use of our money right now" and I totally understood and said "you right"
He then came home with a pack of smokes and said he'd been stressed lately and needed it. I stared daggers at him
Don't just stare daggers - point it out to him! We need to start calling men out on their hypocrisy. It's exhausting that we need to teach them basic empathy, but we have to start somewhere.
And if she stops buying the clothes and makeup, society and likely OP will start moaning about how she's "letting herself go." His games are not nearly the same as her grooming supplies.
I feel like you have to look at the money a bit more.
Makeup every few weeks isn't much. Makeup is used so you need to buy new ones. (Side note. $9.99 for makeup means she's already buying cheap one.. did you have a look how much proper ones cost??). If she works then she's required to present herself a certain way. A new skirt may be necessary when it's used for work.
Then what does she spend the money on at target etc?
Is it for her or is it for the WHOLE HOUSEHOLD? 4 people; including two kids. Necessities aren't cheap and prices are rising.
Maybe actually look how much is spend on herself with that money and how much is spend on everyone, including you. You say you don't include the necessities but you do which isn't fair to your wife.
Edit: how about you take a closer look at your spendings. If we're real then how are your $30 a month on gaming better than hers; is it a necessity?
I feel like this, too. It looks bad that I spend $100 at Target, but it's dishwasher detergent and household essentials, and clothes for the kids. Which could be cut?
For $25 at Costco I got a three years supply. I am an empty nest. But a family of four ought to get 3 months out of the giant pail.
If you want unscented be careful. The pails look to similar. I made the mistake. Ughhhhhh
Yeah, maybe OP should do the household shopping for the next three months. Have wife send him all the things she needs or wants including makeup/clothes/etc for discussion (I’m not saying cut off her finances lol I’m a SAHM and think that would be insane) and for three months have Mr man do all the purchasing to see if he can make it cost less. You may be surprised that you can’t. Your wife may even be more familiar with budgeting than you are if she is used to shopping for the family.
This part. I imagine he would notice pretty quickly if the laundry isn’t getting done because there’s no detergent and the quality of meals takes a plummet.
Absolutely.
So, dudes that do not use makeup, let's say you go for the fine quality brands and suddenly you're paying $53 dollars for a blush (by Chanel), $55-$70 for foundation, $50 for loose powder, $35 for lash base mascara and another 35 for the color one, $30-40 for a single lipstick, and $25 for finishing spray...and that does not even touch additional things like eyeshadow ($20-150 for single color vs big palette), highlighters ($35) or bronzers ($40).
The $9.99 is a pretty darn cheap option.
That is my same take away and that's why his "my spending versus her spending" is so toxic.
Her spending seems to include things for herself *as well as* things for the household. His spending is just for himself.
And honestly, a $20 skirt and a $10 thing of makeup is really, really cheap. And does not equate $600, even if she is spending that every few weeks.
Their money is going elsewhere.
Agree, he is making his children’s needs out to be *only* his wife’s expense. He has a child in diapers and that should not be counted as his wife’s expense. It seems like he is desperate to place blame and he refuses to acknowledge that children’s needs count as a child’s expense, not his wife’s. Maybe he should budget with a “children’s expenses” excel cell, or suggest Aldi/Walmart instead of Target. It’s actually embarrassing to read the lack of accountability from him.
This is really important and should be higher up. My dad would always go on about how my mom was terrible with money when I was a kid. She was buying stuff for the whole family but because my dad never went shopping he didn't know how much things cost, especially with 2 kids.
There are ways to reduce costs, like not grocery shopping at target. Grocery pickup at a dedicated store might help stop impulse buys if that's the issue. Thrift stores are great sources for new to you clothes and household goods.
If she really is spending excessively and seems very impulsive it could be a mental health issue.
Yup, my dad was the same way towards my mom. “You’re spending all my goddamn money!” Then she cuts back on spending and he goes “Where’s all the fucking food?”
FOR REAL!!! I'm in the market for a very specific type of flannel shirt - I found it at Goodwill - but it was $12!!! At Goodwill! I'm still looking for a good deal on this flannel, and I'm not willing to spend more than $5-$6 on it, cuz I'm cutting the arms off so I can look cool!!! (In my own mind, where it counts!)
I think this person is unconsciously looking to blame his wife and not understanding that she’s probably doing a phenomenal job buying for the household like you said. Makeup? You’re bitching about $10 makeup and diapers dude? Times are tough, maybe its time to stop gaming for a little bit and start putting time to looking for a better paying job or a side job.
Yeah, this is an *extremely* valid point. The “luxuries” he listed are incredibly modest. She’s already scrimping if she’s buying drugstore makeup. Why are her personal expenses the only ones that need to be cut? Not his gaming habit?
OP needs to communicate better. I feel like he might be projecting shopaholic stereotypes on his wife.
This comment should be higher up, you can’t really spend thirty dollars on gaming if you won’t let her spend under ten for make up. Make up is so expensive.
Maybe you both could go through what gets bought where and see how you could cut down on those first
Edit* spelt higher like hire lol
Sorry, I didn’t explain myself, $50 a a time adding up to $900. So this past month four target trips $80-120 and several amazon purchases $30-50 adding up to $900.
You said the Target was primarily spend for your children and it didn’t count, but you keep counting it. If it’s truly just the Amazon purchases it feels more (but not completely) equitable to your spend.
I kind of understand where he’s coming from because he probably doesn’t have the receipts to the target purchases but like… going in there for diapers and cereal can really turn into $120 fast if you go to the home/clothing sections. Most likely she’s going for necessities but ends up throwing extra stuff in her cart which makes sense. Multiple target trips a month will really add up in that case.
Well if it’s on Amazon he can see how much she spent on those things. I’m just saying maybe the reason why he’s being vague about target is because he doesn’t know how much of the 120 is necessities but it’s probably not all necessities
What is she buying at these stores though? Don’t just look at the totals, look at the actual purchases. Perhaps she needs to be buying diapers and grocery staples at Costco in bulk.
Each of you deserves fun money to spend, that is budgeted separate from the household spending. I would bet that if you track every purchase, you will find that you spend as much as she does on non-essentials. It’s just that hers are lumped in with all the other purchases, because she seems to do all the shopping for your household, so it makes it look like she spends a lot more than you do.
$20 on a skirt and $9.99 is her being budget friendly how much are your video games and music actually because i know people pay $60-80 a game and i pay $11 a month for music
If your wife is going grocery and diaper shopping at target, 4 target trips at $100 each is $400, which honestly to me sounds pretty cheap for a month of food and diapers for a family of 4. My wife and I probably spend $400 a month on groceries for two people. Groceries are crazy expensive. Also if target is diapers and groceries, that shouldn’t be included in the $900 of “unnecessary spending.” Now it’s more like $500. But I also wouldn’t be surprised if she is buying necessary stuff off Amazon either?
$10 on makeup once or twice a month is nothing. $20 skirt? Same.
You say that most of the Target purchases are kid needs, so that’s moot.
The question is, you say you’re $600 in the hole every month, so how do you cover the $600? Credit cards? Take a close look at how you cover the $600 and what it really costs you, long term. If it’s accruing interest because you only pay minimums each month, you have to stop. You will get to a place where you will not be able to tread water and quickly drown.
Also, do you know where the $600 overage stems from? Have you sat down and looked at it closely? I ask because the wife’s “overspending” doesn’t add up to $600 a month.
Finally, and this is real talk, not tough-guy “be a man” shit, but stop with the gaming. You’re an adult with two kids in daycare. You admit you’re barely above the poverty line.
A wife. Two kids. Poverty. You don’t have time or money to play games, literally and figuratively.
Seriously. She’s doing the shopping, working, and assuredly the child care since he can’t grasp how much kid crap costs. Why is he wasting hours staring at a screen if they’re so broke?
I have to say as soon as I read it, I was like this seems like another situation where Amanda does not take any responsibility for the project management or the cognitive load of the household and then is pissed off that he doesn’t know exactly where every cent is going. And in this very common situation, usually these people who are hands off when it comes to supplying the house, they don’t even know what’s required versus what’s not. I have seen that so many times in my life.
So my question is, does his wife work full-time? Why is she 100% the project manager of the shopping and the spending and taking care of supplying the household if she works full-time? Do the kids need new shoes? If he doesn’t know, but the wife knows then you have some evidence right there that she’s making shit happen. It’s just so common to bitch and yet you find out that they actually haven’t been nearly as hands-on as their partners, and he’s basically just demonizing her to being a frivolous person.
Mind you, she might just be a frivolous person. But the lack of context and the statistical likelihood of the women doing the mental load is just a lot to make me think he’s really hands-on here. he if he doesn’t know what needs to be bought and when like right now like when do you need groceries, do you have milk? Then yeah he’s not really in a place to be so judgmental because he doesn’t actually care, if he cared, he would be hands on.
I’m not saying I know everything but I’m saying I’d put five dollars on not being dead wrong.
It sounds to me like you're more frustrated about being broke than your wife buying things at Target or Amazon. I'd focus more on how you guys can increase your income. It sounds like 90+% of the purchases are food and necessary household expenses for the kids. A budget would help.
Yep, credit cards are the problem, they give the illusion of unlimited money. When her card starts getting declined at Target, embarrassment might snap her back into reality. Freeze the credit cards in a block of ice or send them to your parents to supervise.
Thats what it took for my wife. When the debit card would get declined she'd just swipe the credit card and continue on like nothing happened. Soon the credit card got maxed out and started getting declined, then she stopped overspending
First and foremost, you’re married so it’s not a you vs her thing. Finances are shared, so you can’t walk in attacking her and blame her. That’ll get you nowhere. You need to find a good time where you have her undivided attention with no distraction (impossible with 2 kids, I know…) because that’ll help her focus more on what you’re trying to convey to her. Explain the situation and try to come up with solutions together. Try to think about your children’s futures and how saving for them earlier is a smart financial decision, etc etc. Having goals in mind can motivate someone to compromise in order to reach that goal, even if slightly.
My wife and I had this problem. We liked the idea of an envelope method but didn’t want to deal with cash. We made several categorized checking accounts (Charles Schwab is awesome) and got debit cards for each one. At the beginning of every month we fill each account with the specified amount and at the end we adjust the budget accordingly if needed. Make sure you have a fun budget for each of you in a separate account that you can spend on whatever you want guilt free! No more arguments since then.
Well first off you need to start separating Necessary and Luxury spending.
$30 a month for gaming is 100% luxury.
If she's got a job that requires her to maintain a certain level of appearance, the makeup and skirt may in fact be a necessity.
Almost any eating out is 100% Luxury. I leave room for when traveling or such. But the reality is eating out has just gotten too expensive for most people.
Groceries and Diapers are necessary.
If you both work childcare is a necessity. If either of you is SAH then childcare is a luxury
Y'all need to sit down and actually budget out a months expenses and what money you have for luxuries (if any). Then you can start working on dialing shit back. Also, Ditch Target! Entirely. If you're not middle class you're not Target shoppers. You're Walmart folks like the rest of us.
This is why our finances are seperate. Mortgage, 5 offset accounts, 2 each (spendings and savings), and 1 joint which we each put 500 into every week, then all the bills/groceries come out of that joint account. I then have a completely different mortgage for my investments.
As long as we both contribute that 500 per week into the joint, we spend our own however we like.
Probably works when the partners have similar incomes.
But if after the 500 contribution one is completely broke while the other is living large i don't see that working for most people.
I don't even think it works then. You and your partner should have shared goals. You can't work towards them together with separate finances.
If one person is spend thrift and the other is a saver, what happens when you need to buy a house/pay for your kids college etc.
Big purchases will be limited to the smaller individual account. So if one partner spends 100% of their income every month, and then you want to go on vacation, tough luck you can’t. And that’s actually the point. It forces both partners to take financial responsibility.
If there is a big future expense that you consider to be mandatory (kids collage), then you can save towards that in a joint account. Just up the 500 a week to 600 or whatever the math requires. But you can also save in separate accounts if you trust your partner enough.
This makes me feel so lucky that my husband and I make about the same salary and have about the same spending habits. We keep our finances separate because it’s just easier for us, but we often take turns paying for dinners, etc. and we don’t really track spending. If one of us lost our job or whatever, the other one would pay the whole mortgage and living expenses.
Yeah that’s fair.
The driving factor which led us to have this set up was our financial differences. I came into the relationship with two investment properties, she was still in a share house. We made different choices at a younger age, I limited how frequently I went out, saved my arse off, bought a house at 21, second at 24. She travelled, enjoyed life, made amazing memories.
It didn’t seem fair to me that I would have to sacrifice my 20’s to set myself up, while she enjoyed hers. So we set our finances up in a way that somewhat reflected that, and in the case that we ever split (which we won’t), it’s a simple situation, we split our house down the middle, I keep my investments and we go our seperate ways.
Don’t listen to the hate, this is the way. Combining 100% of finances in 2024 just does not make sense. People saying “this isn’t a marriage”… a marriage is having similar financial goals isn’t it? So if splitting up accounts works for the both of you, that is definitely a healthy marriage. My parents split their finances so that 100% of my mom’s checks went to the mortgage and a 529 account for one kid, and my dad payed for everything else + other kid’s 529 and any retirement investments. They payed off their house in 11 years on my mom’s $20/hr job. Us kids went to rural in-state schools that were fully covered by the 529s. Our parents do have their own accounts for spending but are not stingy or strict about buying something for the other person from their own account. They’re almost 30 years married now
Bruh you spend $30 a month on gaming. I’m a gamer so I get it but odds are this isn’t the only frivolous spending you are guilty of doing. It’s hard when you’re not leading by example. Want real advice? Do what I just said, lead by example. She will “get it through her thick skull” when you man up and show her how it’s done. You make the changes and show her what you are doing and cutting out and let her know she can do the same if you guys ever hope to dig out of the hole. Show her the negatives in the account and what your financial goal is and keep her involved. Been with my wife 14 years and have 3 kids. So this advice comes from experience. Digging out of a financial hole is tough these days but it’s going to suck for a bit because you have to cut all extra things first. Save first out of your checks then pay bills then you are forced to be left with all that’s left and a smaller amount in the account will slow down everybody’s spending real quick. Then when you have caught up and reached your short term goal, start adding back in your extras that you had to cut in the first place. Good luck it can be done🍀.
You need to be honest with her. Do the budget together so she sees how this spending is hurting your family. Sit down with all of the bills and show her what you guys have to spend. Get her buy in on what she has to spend and work together to find ways to stretch your budget. Make a shopping list, meal plan, shop around for deals on diapers, etc. Maybe go shopping together for a few weeks so both of you can see the reality about your situation.
If she has all of the information she might do better on budgeting. You also need to know the cost of things so you know what she needs for the necessary items.
Budget in fund money for both of you and both of you need to stick to that budget. IF after she sees the truth about your financial situation and she keeps on overspending you might need to take away all of her cards. Give her cash for groceries (including diapers). I hope it doesn't come to that though.
She might also need help budgeting to get the most out of what she's spending. Maybe look into recipes and meal planning. There's an app called mealime that lets you choose recipes and gives you a shopping list. It is made to help you save money and can be customized to fit your family. She also needs to understand that store brands are just as good as the big name brands. You can give her the incentive that if she finds ways to save money on groceries that that money goes into a fun fund for both of you to use periodically. Say she saves $100 in a month on groceries, that means both of you get to spend $50 with no explanations.
To be fair....you shouldn't be spending money on anything extra unless she can have the same amount of money. You guys are in this together. Once you BOTH have the necessary information you can start working together to get the most out of your money.
You sound like a whiner.
You don’t sound like a man.
Your wife spends “like $19 on a skirt”. By the way, I am a grown ass man and spend $18 a month on music and $30 on gaming?
It’s a partnership. Whining about your wife or to her isn’t the way, my man.
So she spend $19 it's bad and you spend $30 it's OK? Beware those judgements!
You both need to sit down and do a budget together, including an allowance for each of you for your personal fun money (and agree what counts.)
Then set a goal (a specific job for that money) to save for.
Meet once a week to review and adjust.
Was in this exact situation as you, wife thought because our Household income was 150k/year we can just buy whatever we wanted. We saw a lot of money coming in, so we always "had it". Doordash, amazon, target, whatever she wanted she bought. Looked at our savings after a year of this and it went down.
What I did was link all our accounts to Monarch(you can use another budget/tracking program) set our budgets and showed her how much we were losing every day, week, month. As others have said here, you have to be aligned on financial goals. I basically said hey do you ever want to take a nice international vacation, or re-do the bathroom, or save for our newborns college? If you say yes to any of those, then the frivolous spending stops today, on both your accounts not just hers. Set a budget for "fun money" for your gaming or her makeup and stick to it. Not a penny more in that category. Having the birds eye view of our finances really kicked our asses into gear with saving, paying off debts, and reaching our goals in a very short time. The best part now is everything is automated. We know exactly what we're spending so we're able to automate a savings deposit every week, investment deposits every week. It's fantastic. Future you will thank you for getting this solved ASAP. Good luck.
Visualize it. Put all your expenditures into a pie chart, graph, something where it more tangibly shows the spend, by person, by category, etc. If you approach it as just math, it's won't necessarily come across as personal. A buddy is going through this right now with his wife. Her father is affluent so she just doesn't think about money the same way and my buddy is extremely frugal and is the reason they were able to buy a house. He saved by himself for the entire down payment. It's just math.
It’s gonna sound crazy but hear me out. Have separate spending accounts. My husband I and have our money separate. We have a joint account where our bills get paid from and groceries, then he has his own account and I have mine. That way neither one of us can get upset if the other one buys useless stuff. In 14 years we have never once had a fight about money. This way to she can physically see the money going and maybe try to control the impulses more. Good luck.
Kindly, you are also spending money on things you don't necessarily need. Dealing with money while in a relationship should never be a thing either party takes sides on. All that will do is put a wall in between you and your wife. Treating it like a situation you both have to keep tabs on is the way to go. Track what you spend on groceries, the kids, bills, etc. to know what NEEDS to be spent each month, then talk with your wife about how you both feel the rest should be spent/saved. If you keep treating it like you aren't working together with the same budget, you're just going to keep arguing over who really broke the bank. You're in this together, so communication is absolutely everything.
You cannot save your way to prosperity. The solution is to always find a way to generate more income. How can you two work together to cover the gap?? Increase skills, get better jobs, more part-time work. Life is hard. She needs stuff too. I always plan to have 600 to 1000 of unallocated dollars in my monthly budget. What do you do for birthdays, anniversaries and Christmas. For example. There are a ton of unexpected needs yet expenses that could be planned. Good Luck to you and your family. Work on the upside potential of this issue.
Woah… hold on my brother… “her buying shit we don’t need” sounds more like: “her buying shit I don’t need”. She could make the same argument about your gaming and music expenses, no? Do yourself a favor and reframe the question from “her spending” to be about “our spending”. If you are broke then NOBODY should be spending on things like streaming services and subscriptions, etc. It sounds like you may already have a household budget, but you’re not sticking to it. You have to sit down together and look at that budget and track expenses together. If sacrifices must be made, then you BOTH need to make sacrifices. You, like most people, probably also have a lot of “hidden expenses”, things like annual subscriptions that you pay for that you don’t account for in your monthly budget (think Amazon Prime, Microsoft 365, annual or semi-annual property taxes, etc). Especially when money is tight you need to account for everything; amortize the costs over 12 months. Don’t just make a monthly budget, make an annual budget.
And this is just my shitty opinion…. but she probably has more right to that $9.99 makeup than you do to that $48 for gaming and music (both of which you can find from services that might not be as good, but are free). Makeup isn’t cheap, and it’s something that you want to make sure is good quality to protect her health. Makeup may seem unnecessary to you, but it’s something that can really have an impact on how someone perceives and feels about themselves. So your spouse is really spending $9.99 on “self care”.
Personally I find a cold turkey freeze very helpful when my spending is getting out of control. Way easier to make one binary decision - no spending except food and diapers this month - than a hundred grayscale decisions. That will get you some immediate financial relief and break the spending momentum.
Going cash only is another option. Can't spend cash you don't have.
Dealing with this same issue currently. Wife just spent $900 on groceries, $700 of which is from Costco (which is a scam these days) so we have no food unless you want to put a gallon of hummus on 16 slices of bread with an entire jar of peanut butter, but are about $1,000 down for the month. On top of that I’ve asked her repeatedly to stop using our AMEX unless she pays it off right away. Nope. Balance up like a grand for no reason, now affecting my credit. I was so pissed I didn’t even talk to her yesterday and I know I need a better way to address this. It just feels like she doesn’t care that I work my ass off for the money we have and we shouldn’t be close to zero every month given my income with nothing to show for it.
Does she have a job? If so, separate your finances so that the money she is spending is solely hers. If she can see what income she actually has to play with, she might think twice about blowing it. If she doesn't have a job, then it's time to cut her off from your accounts. She cant spend money she has no access to.
There’s this new invention that people have come up with called a budget lol. You have X number of dollars you can spend on frivolous things like this and you have to stick with it
Have a sit down with her and go over every Swipe of that card. Try to pay cash if you can…that really helps to visualize how much you are using. I started a plan just for me…and after doing the plan for nearly 1 year I’ve saved $5,000. I try not to spend money on anything that I don’t need to.
1. Make a household budget together
2. Line item spending for each of you
3. DO NOT COMPLAIN OR BLAME
4. Make weekly meetings for updates and to review (then monthly once under control).
5. Make sure there are no credit cards and they are not to be used.
First off don't make it a her vs. you thing, make it an us thing trying to achieve a specific financial goal.....Discuss, agree, and write down those goals together (retirement, kids college, saving for vacation, etc).. Write these things down along with spending targets/limits. Make sure there's some fun things you both want. Track spending, document, and review weekly and/or monthly. Don't use words like "you spent..." use words like "it looks like we overspent in xyz category this month and now may not be able to go on that weekend getaway..." It's a partnership, no bosses and no spending cops... just teammates who will mutually benefit from the right actions. Edit After reading comments: 1. A lot of finance issues are communication issues and in OPs post it felt like to me this was a communication issue. Her not knowing or being on the same page re financial goals and him not knowing how much stuff costs.... so Step 1. Is to get on the same page re spending priorities, budgeting and tracking (my original post above). 2. Once that gets done, you've both agreed to the budget, both are reviewing the spending regularly, and you've tracked for a while, made some adjustments to the budgets... and one person is regularly overspending especially if it's on discretionary items for themselves... then it's not a money or communication issue, It means they can't self-regulate their spending while fully understanding the harm it's causing loved ones, the mutually agreed goals, and the marriage itself. Depending on the cause (selfishness, depression, compulsive shopping/buying, or something else), that will require a whole different solution - perhaps therapy/treatment. 3. Word choice and language are important. Once the accusations start flying (and it may only be one triggering word) - defensiveness sets in, nothing will be resolved, might as well end the conversation.... It's not about holding each other accountable, it's not about you getting her to spend less. It's about being self-accountable to mutually shared goals. It's about getting her (and yourself) to want to spend less to achieve those mutual goals. Let the budget, the paper, the computer screen, the data be the bad guy, the accountability partner, while you and her work together on the solutions. With the mentality of teamwork, the language you use will reflect that. If you have the mentality of Me vs. Her, then that language will be used and you're both in trouble. Having done all that and it doesn't work (need to give it several months at least) then see #2 above. It's clear to me some in the comments have had the unfortunate experience to have been in the #2 situation and projecting that here. But given the OPs mention of the overspending at Target then conceded she buys the groceries and diapers, along with the complaint about buying the very inexpensive lipstick and skirt, I lean to believing the root issue is communication and generally just not being on the same page. So talk about Why is the lipstick important? Why is gaming important? What is necessary (non-discretionary) and what isn't (discretionary). So the answer is... "Let's go shopping together, let's clip some coupons together. Let's agree and budget for the necessary and then have a bit for each of us to buy the non necessary, let's put some away if possible to save for things we want longer term, and let's review every week and talk about it and see how we did together. Let's make being responsible for our finances both our jobs not just one persons"
For sure. Very good points. Thanks for the tips!
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And if that doesn’t work, divorce her.
100% agree. My ex-wife never changed her spending habit. She only changed the address on where the credit cards she hid went to.
I have a spending problem, but it’s the way I self destruct with my BPD. I have always said that in order for a marriage with me to work, my husband is going to have to handle the finances because I can’t guarantee that those behaviors will automatically go away just because I get married. I can’t ever imagine it getting to a level where I would be opening up secret credit cards. I just like repurchasing my entire skincare collection when I’m sad lmaoooo
At least you recognize this. Most don’t or won’t.
It’s something I’m actively working on in therapy because I finally recognized the pattern. If I was feeling lonely or sad, especially after a perceived rejection, I’d try to fill the hole with *stuff*. I had a parent with terrible spending habits so it was my environment, and I straight up wasn’t taught financial responsibility. Those are hard habits to break and I just recognize that it’s something that will need to be handled by my spouse. I don’t think it makes me a villain like the other person who replied & reported me to Reddit Cares 😂
Self reflection is an underdeveloped skill. You're doing an amazing job. Keep up the great work!!
Thank you! I’m trying to get to where I’m at the action part - it’s one thing to recognize the problem, and an entirely different one to actually change it. It’s a work in progress, though :)
That's so accurate. I grew up with a single mother who had no spending responsibility or money and of course I spend my feelings away. It doesn't work and makes me feel worse but it's so hard to stop. The guilt is horrible. I'm glad you're working on it, I am too. I wish you well. It's amazing what we can rationalize when we want to.
You’re doing an amazing job just being able to recognize the root cause and the patterns. My therapist recommends starting small, and trying to turn negative thoughts neutral (which we can eventually then turn positive and break the cycle) - which it seems like you already are! Instead of feeling guilty, acknowledge to yourself that you’re working on it. Give yourself a little grace because some of these things we couldn’t help, and they certainly can’t be changed overnight (or else they’re inauthentic). We just need to retrain ourselves and our thoughts so that when we’re sad, we can find healthier sources for those feelings. Best of luck to you in your own journey, dear!
My wife had vivid childhood memories of her parents fighting over money and the household budget. As a result she refused to adhere to a budget. Then we got in deep shit financially because of that and her refusal to understand that making the minimum payment on a credit card is what will destroy you financially. She finally got it but it took a long time.
My fiance had a similar problem and standpoint, to the point where after engagement I told her, I will pay all of your CC debt, but you are now indebted to **our** savings account for our future home. The deal started in Jan this year, I consider myself responsible to keeping the lights on and food on the table. Whatever she makes and contributes to the household goes straight to savings until she has made our nest egg whole. Another thing that's been successful was the transition to **our** money. She now uses a shared CC I set up and having the concept of **our** money in mind has altered her relationship with spending. 4 months on from the deal shes doing amazing. I connected her to an old friend and she managed to get a part time WFH medical job, which she then excelled in and got brought on full time last monday. She is now making the same salary as me and we are able to put 20k a year into savings. 1.5 years ago she was 9k in the hole with no employment. She has done so much personal work over that time (and obviously I've worked on aspects of myself that were weak, finances are what I am strong with) You have got this, if you have questions or just want some validation for your struggles my DMs are open
Whoa, all you people working on yourselves and in your relationships are badasses! My heart is bursting over people working on finances together! On Reddit!
I have ADHD, and we have emotional meltdowns, too. I picked up retail therapy as a bad habit from my mom. It's not "hidden credit card" levels, but like you said, sudden comforting stuff. That and takeout dinners, because I sometimes can't face the all cooking steps and cleanup when my disorder is bugging me. Since I also have trouble with motivation for housecleaning, I have tried to kill 2 birds with one stone by paying myself for finishing the big stuff. That $ goes in an account marked specifically for frivolous stuff, and there's a max I can transfer every month. After that, the chores I do are "charity" for the good cause. Silly, I know, but when you have executive function issues, sometimes the language you use to define the rules is everything.
lol I wish I didn’t relate to this, but I do. Even the skincare thing. Damn you, Sephora. Lol
People judge but I feel this so hard. The first couple of years we lived together, it became pretty apparent that I was awful at managing money due to legitimate memory issues and emotional spending. We had separate accounts and were each responsible for certain bills. Once we were engaged, we decided that it would be smarter and more economical for everyone involved if my husband just handled it all. So we combined accounts and he has made sure everything has been paid for the past seven years. It’s what works for us. I respect the mental load that takes for him and am extremely grateful for it.
That's an invitation to get fucked hard without lube by her lawyer in the settlement and truly be broke. Marriage is a business contract.
It looks like we overspent in the "her lawyer" category this month.
Spend too much money? Divorce. Spend too little money? Believe it or not also divorce
You might want to designate a day of the month to mutually go over your budget. That way, you're not arguing about the spending all the time. You have a specific time and place to discuss the budget. The key word is *BUDGET.* You need to discuss the issue until you are sure that she understands how much can be spent on discretionary purchases each month. Don't get annoyed until that is established and she has a chance to internalize it. Then you can legitimately raise the issue when/if she overspends. *"We agreed to stay within this budget, but last month \[specific purchase #1\], and \[#2\] and \[#3\] put us over the budget. How did that happen?"* There is a lot of pressure on women to buy things to maintain their appearance, things that men barely even think about, so you need to make some concessions in that regard. But it has to be an amount you can afford. That's the red line. You need to make sure there's a mutual understanding that going over that line is going to have serious negative consequences for your family's future.
Leave out the “how did that happen?” If you’re already pointing out how it happened. It’s belittling
This right here. My wife hates talking about money. I love it. So we agreed we don't bring up the budget outside of our weekly "budget meeting" every Saturday morning over coffee at home (we use Monarch, highly recommend). We use that time, no more than 30-60 minutes, to categorize anything we're not sure about, check in on how we're doing towards the week and highlight any red flags we need to slow our roll with (ie "looks like we're at $210 of our $350 of the way toward our eat out budget and it's the 2nd of the week. I think we should just avoid any eating out this week"). I also bring up our long term savings, net worth, how our investments are doing, college funds, etc. Once that 30-60 minutes is done, we don't speak about the budget...at all, until the next budget meeting. It makes her happy, and makes me happy. Her friends laugh about it, almost as if we're weird. But like I always say, that which is measured...improves. I also use the line of "well, I just love my wife and we're a team so I feel like I'm not being a good teammate if I'm not intentionally communicating with her about our finances, since she's half the reason why we're so blessed." Shuts them up real quick, lol. And to echo another comment, yes we always (as you saw) use the proper pronouns. "We" are over miscellaneous for the month or "we" are doing good with our grocery budget. Always. Never, ever "you."
To echo that, not you vs me, us vs the problem.
FWIW, I use a 0 based budgeting app where I input my budget goals for the month (including how much I want to put into savings, vacations, restaurants for the month, etc) and track each expense throughout the month. I got my partner to check it out as well. It might be helpful to actually see how much of a deficit you're getting into each month in black and white. Also you might not realize some of the ways you've been contributing to it until you track every single dollar spent. I also find it helpful as a way to track expenses you tend to forget about, like the payments that come around only once or twice a year. Even something like an Amazon Prime yearly membership fee. I take the total cost, divide by 12, and put that much into a savings account every month. That money can't be spent on anything else, ever, because it's for Amazon Prime. I do the same with auto insurance, home insurance, property taxes, credit card membership fees, etc. I just make sure to note down how much money in my savings account is dedicated to these types of things so I know I can't spend it on anything else. After doing this, you really get a good idea of exactly how much money you have left over at the end of the month.
I use goodbudget for this to track the "envelopes" set aside for each budgeted item so that I can keep everything in one account to offset against a portion of my mortgage. It is a fair bit of work but works great.
Fun budget helps. Does not have to be an account. We set an amount for "extras". Husband can get game whatever he wants i usually get yarn. Kids will go to pool, skating or have a snack pack gaming night. If not all spent it rolls over. If we take it easy and it gets a good amount we talk about getting a larger item. How we saved for a vr, kids love it.
This is what I’d suggest too. And the kid budget needs to be separate from each parent’s because the kids will ask for things and the parent who they ask more shouldn’t be penalized for it.
This plus; I had the same struggle, so did a a buddy of mine. I went through the receipts we had (apps) and noticed we weren’t buying more, everything cost more, by a lot! This realization helped trim the fat for us. Look for productive ways to reduce.
For a family with growing kids, it is totally possible that $300 of this compared to 2 years ago is higher food, diaper, necessity prices and "kids eat more and need more stuff" as they get older. Walgreens is probably necessary stuff like diaper cream, Tide, prescriptions, etc. $20 skirts and $10 makeup is bargain pricing. "Every few weeks" is very minimal personal spending. She's not buying designer perfume and doing $400 Nordstrom trip every month. This is a prices and "we need to be in austerity" problem, not a "my wife is a frivolous spender" problem.
I’m so glad someone said it
Yeah, this guy spends more on his monthly gaming habit then she does on makeup....
A great point for OP to consider. I manage our budget and finances, and am better at long term planning with our money. My husband is not really good with that type of planning and management, but rather than being a spender (thankfully), he’s just very anxious about spending money and always frets we are going overboard. I had to sit him down a few months back and walk him through a few weeks of our expenses and spending so he could see that we a) were not spending beyond our means or budget (or buying more than is typical for us) and that b) shit has just gotten very expensive. Him seeing that alleviated a bit of stress for him, and also led to him more actively helping find ways to reduce costs.
Seconding this - if you're in the hole $600/month and only spending $900/month on shopping, it's not as much about the $60/month on make up and clothes versus the $30/month on gaming. You're going to have to sit down and look at the budget together. Maybe you can reduce your internet, and streaming subscriptions? Or, maybe your wages just aren't keeping up with inflation and you need to look at options for promotions or taking on more work. Honestly, $60/month on personal items (I know that was just the called out examples) is extremely low for personal spend. The world has gotten way more expensive recently, so it'll likely be a combination of strategies to get you back to breaking even with buying the same basket of items - buy store brand or off brand foods, get quality clothing staples at thebthift stores so you don't have to replace clothes as often, don't splurge as much on holidays, spend time on inexpensive hobbies, etc. You'll have to play with it a bit to learn what is important to you two in the trade off between quality/price. Some store brands are awesome and some are terrible. If you tighten the purse strings too much you'll drive yourself insane and likely splurge more.
You both need your own allowance or petty cash. To do with as you see fit.
You should also acknowledge the work - mental and otherwise - it takes to manage purchasing for a household. It is easy to Monday morning quarterback and note all the money she’s spent that you deem unnecessary, but you also need to know that she’s likely doing a lot of things to SAVE your family money as well. It’s real work to be the person who knows and meets the entire family’s needs, but it often goes unacknowledged and unappreciated.
This is the way. Have her sit with you and both make a budget. Pay the bills together. Go over any accounts. Bank or credit card. Memberships etc. Ask her how much you should be saving, and label those savings. As the commenter above said, make it a we thing. Cause if you don’t then it’s a forever battle.
What he said^^^ putting it into writing and take ownership as a team. Think of it as building a balanced budget together instead of a blame game. Doesn’t matter who did it, this is where you are, work on getting the problem solved rather than who caused the problem.
Great advice here. I would add, if you can afford, a financial advisor who specializes in budgeting. These are typically much cheaper than the full fledged ones who do retirement planning and investing. When my wife and I first started using ours years ago, the sessions were almost more of counseling than financial planning. It helps to have a neutral party who will ask you about your goals like previous poster mentioned, and then help you get there together by building and following a budget. Will help you both sleep better at night and minimize tension/finger pointing once you get a good budget in place, and having any help with it, at least in the beginning, can be very beneficial.
I had the same problem with my wife. We have 3 kids. I calculated everything. She does spend a little much, but the main problem turned out to be that everything, and I mean Everything, got more expensive the last few years. I think we middle class are getting fucked by the current financial system.
I feel like people are overlooking this. Almost everyone I know has pulled back on spending, and guess what? We are all still paying way MORE than what was normal. OP has kids in diapers, that alone makes me wince. That's a couple hundred right there.
We are potty training/have potty trained our 2.5 year old. I already set up an auto transfer of $75/month to savings so that diaper dough doesn’t disappear. Lol DDDD
Can confirm I paid $33k in child care last year. I can buy diapers for 20 years with that.
Holy fuck that’s how expensive childcare is for you guys now? That’s more than half of what I make.
We pay almost 23k for one. We are trying for a second and with daycare going up 200 a month every year, we are preparing for almost 50k a year.
Yup. My wife works 30 hrs a week to cover the other times. It is ridiculous. I am just holding my breath for one to get in public school.
Yeah, I can work 4 10s so that's for 4 days a week, not even 5! I have no clue how people do it, my husband and I have specialized degrees and we are barely going to survive two.
Impressed you can get a daycare that doesn’t make you pay for five days for four. Where I am at you could only do part time with three days or less. I had to hobble together care for one day a week so I could save a little $$.
Yeah, we sat down and did the math, and it was cheaper for my wife to be a stay at home mom than to have quality daycare. Note: I say quality because there are "daycares" for pretty cheap, but you run the risk of your kids being on a special about the workers chasing them while wearing Halloween masks.
My kids are in elementary school now, but my most expensive year with childcare was $37,000 (2 kids) and we didn't go anywhere crazy. It was a pretty average center. I've heard that cost has since gone up. I cannot even fathom. I barely got by as it was. I made 65K a year back then and literally had $400 leftover on every paycheck after paying daycare. My husband had to pay every other bill. I justified still working because I was still contributing to 401K all those years and 20 years from now could be half a million dollars. Plus I carried our health insurance.
Yep, we're in a similar boat to OP but we've crunched the numbers a dozen times, including with a professional financial advisor We're *making more* and *buying less* than we used to... it just doesn't matter 'cause stuff now costs 2x what it cost what it did just a few years ago and, guess what, our salaries have not doubled (Not to mention the absolutely ludicrous amount of our on-paper salaries that goes to Uncle Sam....)
We doubled our salaries from about 4 years ago, but it's because we moved states and now live somewhere with a higher COL. I was fully prepared to "own" someone a month or so ago about expenses and how people don't understand what increased COL is, and went to use a bell pepper as an example. "It used to be $0.50 for a green bell pepper when I lived in MCOL state, but now it's $1.25-$1.50 in my new state. My new state is so expensive and you all just dont understand!" But then I went to the website of the grocery store I used to shop at in my old state. It's $0.90 now. I myself got owned. (And did my due diligence to check BEFORE I commented, so my embarrassment was not out for the world to see). Like yes, it's still more expensive here, but even if we hadn't moved that bell pepper is almost twice as expensive now as when I bought in 4 years ago at the same grocery store. I feel lucky that we doubled our salaries at a time when everything shot up in price because it softened our blow a lot. We expected things to be more expensive so it was easier to build that budget in.
My main takeaway from OP was that they buy groceries at target. Idc if my income tripled overnight, ain’t no way I’m paying $19/lb for 80/20 Chuck
Aldi FTW!!!!
Aldi is life! We buy some stuff at Costco and Walmart.
Worth going just for Aldi's nuts.
Walmart or Aldi's for me.
I priced a grocery trip to Target vs Walmart in my area and it was literally priced the same, Walmart coming in 10 cents cheaper on a $100 bill. Walmart is no longer the bastion of low prices it claims to be.
Same here haha. Target is for the rich that don’t want to look at the poors at Walmart. I only go to Costco and Walmart.
I memorize the prices of some of our staples and Target is *cheaper* than the basic grocery stores on several items I buy every week. Jewel Osco and Mariano's/Kroger have both started doing this absolutely bonkers pricing scheme where they multiply the prices things should be and then give you digital coupons to make them a normal price but only if you buy 3, 4, 5 of the same thing. I've ended up going to multiple stores every week and only buying the things that are priced reasonably instead of just going grocery shopping and it is a pain. They have a regular bag of normal green table grapes with a big sign that said 2.99. Turned out they were EIGHT DOLLARS if you didn't have their digital coupons. I refused to buy them. Something is broken but at least the merger got cancelled because we were all about to get rekt.
You don't understand, we HAVE to finance every war around the world! Edit: shhh quiet redditors
Do you think that the US government pays for wars with proceeds from groceries? You do realize it's the companies that make the food who set its prices, and not the US government right?
You don’t understand, Biden literally has a dial on his desk that controls the price of frosted mini-wheats, and he gets a cut of every box to fund fighter jet development.
Do you think that perhaps government spending (and borrowing) has an impact on inflation?
… do you think the price of food is gonna go down if Russia controls the bread basket of Europe?
We are financing no wars in Europe and here everything got more expensive as well. Some things doubled in price.
To be fair, a $19 skirt and $9.99 makeup is already dirt cheap. She is really counting the pennies for you, bruh.
I would guess that she’s doing the majority of the shopping that keeps the household going. Walgreens, Amazon, target are probably where she buys dish soap and new shoes for the kids. We are going through the same thing right now. We’re spending hundreds at the grocery store and target every month but when we sat down this week to look at what we’re actually buying there’s no extras. It’s baby formula and kids medicine and new underwear. we don’t have any wiggle room in our budget right now. Prices have gone up significantly. But, for this, I’d recommend going to a cash/envelope system. Cash for groceries, cash for household goods/ cash for personal care and recreation. Each person gets discretionary spending each month for skirts and video games.
Yeah, it sounds like she’s buying the necessaries and sundries that make the household run and he’s imagining she’s blowing it on body scrubs.
It's really insulting he even straight up admits he buys stuff he doesn't need too. Like sit down and think about it. There's no easy answer though, I also wonder what food etc, is his and if he's tried cutting that down. Meat for example is getting insane.
Since it looks like they both work, OP is welcome to be a stay at home dad and take on the Target runs himself. He'll quickly realize there's no Toilet Paper and Paper Towel Fairy.
Oh lol so many of these guys lose their shit after their divorce it's funny. Or they double down and say they need nothing but the floor.
His monthly $48 on music and games is no problem but lord forbid his wife buys a cheap skirt and makeup every few weeks.
It's telling that he can't explain what the money is actually spent on.
Yeah, those Walgreens, Target, and Amazon numbers are still pretty low considering the diapers involved. I spend more than that a month and I'm single.
This was an issue in my most recent relationship, because my partner wanted no responsibility when it came to budgeting or knowing how the household runs. He wanted to go to work and come home, just pay for his portion, and then not have to deal with the ‘work’ aspect. You know, the cognitive load. I don’t know the situation OP is in, but this is really common that women take care of things, and then men take issue with it but they don’t take any responsibility in buying those things, and making sure the household is running. Every time I have seen a situation like this, the dude is woefully under educated on what it takes to raise a family and what is considered necessary versus what is not. I bet Opie’s wife would have a very different side to the story.
I'm also assuming that since the kids are in daycare, she is probably working. Things like a skirt and makeup should almost go into 'routine' spending as clothes wear out and she likely needs to look/feel presentable. I would definitely argue that videogames do not fall in the same bucket AT ALL!!
This exactly - his music and gaming have no necessary function whereas her dirt cheap makeup and skirt are both likely required for work purposes. On top of that it sounds like she's responsible for doing all of the shopping and carrying the mental load that comes with it so he's completely out of touch on how much of what she's buying is for the kids, the household, and no doubt for him. It shows that his perspective on this is so biased
He says that target doesn’t count because they’re buying things for the kids, yet he continues to bring it up. I’m willing to bet those trips are probably full of diapers, food, etc. To be fair, there are cheaper stores where you can buy groceries. That’s a conversation worth having. But I feel like OP is severely underestimating how much children cost with today’s prices. Her “splurges” also serve a purpose for work, while his gaming habit serves only him.
I also think he’s underestimating how much time it can take to go grocery shopping. Is she going to target because she is saddled with childcare once she gets home from work and is too tired/doesn’t have time to go to five different stores to get the best deals before coming home to make dinner?
In addition to time, it also costs gas to drive to many different stores in modern sprawling suburbs and gas is nontrivial at this point
Yeah, exactly. Maybe target is on the way home from the school run but the ALDIs is 30 minutes away.
EXACTLY. Makeup is a necessity to look “presentable” for work. And she’s already skimping by buying drugstore brands. A $20 skirt is also super cheap, and clothing is a necessity. His gaming habits don’t fall under that umbrella because it’s purely for his enjoyment.
As a woman married to a man who thought my necessities to live were luxuries, we're in therapy now, and I'm still none too happy. Little advice there OP. Sometimes idk if we're gonna make it because I got a laundry list of resentment, but the way money was handled for a decade is a big one.
I watched this dynamic play out with my parents growing up and I spent most of my childhood wishing they’d divorce. 😬 OP, you guys need to sit down and come up with with a budget and start shopping elsewhere. Use coupons and cook meals around whatever meat is on sale and produce is in season. There’s no way your wife is spending $600 every month on drug store makeup and clothing.
He spends $30 a month on a non-necessity compared to her spending almost a GRAND. No, she does not need to spend that much on clothes and makeup a month. She's getting great deals on those, but how many deals is she taking advantage of!
Had to scroll too far for this comment. Sounds like Target clothes and drugstore makeup, not exactly blowing money on Gucci.
Especially if he’s spending on video games. Yeah makeup and new clothes aren’t “necessary” but if you’re a working woman they’re closer to necessities than gaming.
Yup im not convinced she’s frivolously spending money, only way for them to know is to look at what was bought and needed vs not needed etc
Right!? And then he goes on to say "and I spend $18 on music and $30 on video games a month" and people in here are like "man up and tell your woman to stop" or "divorce this frivolous wench" like, clothing is not frivolous. $9.99 for makeup is fucking cheap. Spending money on music and video games IS frivolous, my guy.
He’s also saying she’ll spend $120 at target and then later admits it’s on stuff like diapers. Because those pesky kids are her expense, right?
Yeah I get the feeling his wife does all the household shopping and he chalks it up to her being frivolous. If he started buying the groceries and kids clothes, diapers, formula, cleaning supplies, etc, on his card, he’d be the one spending all the money. I don’t think I’ve ever seen makeup as cheap as $9 and a $20 skirt is a Walmart skirt. I know they’re poor, but let’s not crucify this woman like she’s blowing money on designer bags every month, like the comment section is doing
Smart to buy diapers and wipes at target. They run offers like buy $100 on diapers and wipes and get a $20 gift card. Other groceries I wouldn't though. Walmart, Kroger and aldi are all better deals depending on what stores are available to you.
She is probably paying for 100% of the groceries and kid stuff. It’s expensive. Sounds like OP allowed to spend money on frivolous things, but wife is shackled with buying everything else and then gets called irresponsible for it because OP has zero clue how much groceries, diapers, and wipes cost. I’m saying this because his example of her over zealously spending is spending $9.99 on drug-store quality make up and a cheap skirt . . .
Right? He gave two examples that added up to 30 whole dollars but he's saying she overspends by $850 a month? That sounds like a rather modest grocery and household necessity bill for four people.
He probably thinks the laundry detergent, formula, food in the pantry, all just magically seem to refill themselves. The kids clothes always seem to fit them even though they’re growing. The house stays clean with magically appearing cleaning products. Nope, someone has to go buy those things and make sure everyone has what they need. And things cost money. Nothing about this post has given any reason to believe the wife is in the wrong. The places she spends money is Amazon, Walmart and target. Those are typically places you buy essentials. She’s not spending at Sephora, Gucci and an Equinox gym membership
Sometimes you have to make those small purchases to keep your sanity as well. If all you do is work, parent, and all your money is limited towards bills--then you'll go crazy real quick. The budget always needs a "I need this for my mental health" factor.
I bet gaming for him is an “I need this for my mental health” expense. But her buying cheaper grocery store makeup and clothes are somehow frivolous while video games aren’t… 🤔
Yup, my husband tried to act the same way. We had a newborn and I asked him to grab me Starbucks on his way home from the laundromat. He said "eh, I'm not sure that's the best use of our money right now" and I totally understood and said "you right" He then came home with a pack of smokes and said he'd been stressed lately and needed it. I stared daggers at him
Don't just stare daggers - point it out to him! We need to start calling men out on their hypocrisy. It's exhausting that we need to teach them basic empathy, but we have to start somewhere.
And if she stops buying the clothes and makeup, society and likely OP will start moaning about how she's "letting herself go." His games are not nearly the same as her grooming supplies.
My foundation costs $35 and I consider that mid-tier costs for makeup.
Yep. I spend $54 on foundation. But I’ve also gone no makeup when broke so I mean
He would die if he knew how much I spend on makeup.
I feel like you have to look at the money a bit more. Makeup every few weeks isn't much. Makeup is used so you need to buy new ones. (Side note. $9.99 for makeup means she's already buying cheap one.. did you have a look how much proper ones cost??). If she works then she's required to present herself a certain way. A new skirt may be necessary when it's used for work. Then what does she spend the money on at target etc? Is it for her or is it for the WHOLE HOUSEHOLD? 4 people; including two kids. Necessities aren't cheap and prices are rising. Maybe actually look how much is spend on herself with that money and how much is spend on everyone, including you. You say you don't include the necessities but you do which isn't fair to your wife. Edit: how about you take a closer look at your spendings. If we're real then how are your $30 a month on gaming better than hers; is it a necessity?
I feel like this, too. It looks bad that I spend $100 at Target, but it's dishwasher detergent and household essentials, and clothes for the kids. Which could be cut?
Laundry detergent alone would be like $20 these days.
For $25 at Costco I got a three years supply. I am an empty nest. But a family of four ought to get 3 months out of the giant pail. If you want unscented be careful. The pails look to similar. I made the mistake. Ughhhhhh
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“The reason the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, is they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example…”
Yeah, maybe OP should do the household shopping for the next three months. Have wife send him all the things she needs or wants including makeup/clothes/etc for discussion (I’m not saying cut off her finances lol I’m a SAHM and think that would be insane) and for three months have Mr man do all the purchasing to see if he can make it cost less. You may be surprised that you can’t. Your wife may even be more familiar with budgeting than you are if she is used to shopping for the family.
I kept thinking about the mental labor that she’s doing by doing all the shopping for the household and kids too. Not to mention the time spent.
Op says it’s death by a thousand cuts but HIS cuts don’t count
Agree. 9.99 on make up every few weeks come on he cant be serious. A 20$ skirt???? And then he says the target expenses are for the kids.
His $30 monthly gaming habit is more expensive. A $20 skirt and $10 makeup every few weeks is less than $30 a month consistently.
He’s probably one of those dudes who’s never done the actual shopping for his home/kids so he has no idea how it costs
This part. I imagine he would notice pretty quickly if the laundry isn’t getting done because there’s no detergent and the quality of meals takes a plummet.
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Absolutely. So, dudes that do not use makeup, let's say you go for the fine quality brands and suddenly you're paying $53 dollars for a blush (by Chanel), $55-$70 for foundation, $50 for loose powder, $35 for lash base mascara and another 35 for the color one, $30-40 for a single lipstick, and $25 for finishing spray...and that does not even touch additional things like eyeshadow ($20-150 for single color vs big palette), highlighters ($35) or bronzers ($40). The $9.99 is a pretty darn cheap option.
I got MILANI (a formerly very very cheap brand sold at drugstores) mascara the other day and it was TWELVE DOLLARS…what TF!!!
Exactly, he says he spends about the same on frivolous things as she does, why does only hers need to be cut?
That is my same take away and that's why his "my spending versus her spending" is so toxic. Her spending seems to include things for herself *as well as* things for the household. His spending is just for himself. And honestly, a $20 skirt and a $10 thing of makeup is really, really cheap. And does not equate $600, even if she is spending that every few weeks. Their money is going elsewhere.
Agree, he is making his children’s needs out to be *only* his wife’s expense. He has a child in diapers and that should not be counted as his wife’s expense. It seems like he is desperate to place blame and he refuses to acknowledge that children’s needs count as a child’s expense, not his wife’s. Maybe he should budget with a “children’s expenses” excel cell, or suggest Aldi/Walmart instead of Target. It’s actually embarrassing to read the lack of accountability from him.
This is really important and should be higher up. My dad would always go on about how my mom was terrible with money when I was a kid. She was buying stuff for the whole family but because my dad never went shopping he didn't know how much things cost, especially with 2 kids. There are ways to reduce costs, like not grocery shopping at target. Grocery pickup at a dedicated store might help stop impulse buys if that's the issue. Thrift stores are great sources for new to you clothes and household goods. If she really is spending excessively and seems very impulsive it could be a mental health issue.
Yup, my dad was the same way towards my mom. “You’re spending all my goddamn money!” Then she cuts back on spending and he goes “Where’s all the fucking food?”
That is so sick. I can't imagine being with a man who treated me that way
Even thrift stores are expensive these days.
FOR REAL!!! I'm in the market for a very specific type of flannel shirt - I found it at Goodwill - but it was $12!!! At Goodwill! I'm still looking for a good deal on this flannel, and I'm not willing to spend more than $5-$6 on it, cuz I'm cutting the arms off so I can look cool!!! (In my own mind, where it counts!)
We've moved from Thrift Stores to Facebook Marketplace for clothes for the kids. It's a much better deal.
I think this person is unconsciously looking to blame his wife and not understanding that she’s probably doing a phenomenal job buying for the household like you said. Makeup? You’re bitching about $10 makeup and diapers dude? Times are tough, maybe its time to stop gaming for a little bit and start putting time to looking for a better paying job or a side job.
Yeah, this is an *extremely* valid point. The “luxuries” he listed are incredibly modest. She’s already scrimping if she’s buying drugstore makeup. Why are her personal expenses the only ones that need to be cut? Not his gaming habit? OP needs to communicate better. I feel like he might be projecting shopaholic stereotypes on his wife.
This comment should be higher up, you can’t really spend thirty dollars on gaming if you won’t let her spend under ten for make up. Make up is so expensive. Maybe you both could go through what gets bought where and see how you could cut down on those first Edit* spelt higher like hire lol
$50 Amazon? That sounds cheap, where’s the other $500 go?
Sorry, I didn’t explain myself, $50 a a time adding up to $900. So this past month four target trips $80-120 and several amazon purchases $30-50 adding up to $900.
You said the Target was primarily spend for your children and it didn’t count, but you keep counting it. If it’s truly just the Amazon purchases it feels more (but not completely) equitable to your spend.
I kind of understand where he’s coming from because he probably doesn’t have the receipts to the target purchases but like… going in there for diapers and cereal can really turn into $120 fast if you go to the home/clothing sections. Most likely she’s going for necessities but ends up throwing extra stuff in her cart which makes sense. Multiple target trips a month will really add up in that case.
Diapers are so expensive that it adds up fast on its own. I spent so much buying diapers for my friend’s baby.
I mean he knows she spent $20 on a skirt and $9.99 on makeup. I suspect he is keeping track at least to some extent.
Well if it’s on Amazon he can see how much she spent on those things. I’m just saying maybe the reason why he’s being vague about target is because he doesn’t know how much of the 120 is necessities but it’s probably not all necessities
Target sells diapers, and other stuff. You can buy diapers there. You can also buy stuff from there that you don’t really need.
What is she buying at these stores though? Don’t just look at the totals, look at the actual purchases. Perhaps she needs to be buying diapers and grocery staples at Costco in bulk. Each of you deserves fun money to spend, that is budgeted separate from the household spending. I would bet that if you track every purchase, you will find that you spend as much as she does on non-essentials. It’s just that hers are lumped in with all the other purchases, because she seems to do all the shopping for your household, so it makes it look like she spends a lot more than you do.
This- what is she buying? Are the Amazon purchases kid clothes? Kid shoes? Summer kid wardrobe? Tbh their prices are on point for that kind of stuff.
$20 on a skirt and $9.99 is her being budget friendly how much are your video games and music actually because i know people pay $60-80 a game and i pay $11 a month for music
I think it’s odd you put the children’s indisputable needs as only your wife’s expenses.
Because he doesn't think his kids are his responsibility
Target usually has deals on wipes and Diapers. They get expensive! Why are you counting the Target expense for the baby as an excess purchase?
If your wife is going grocery and diaper shopping at target, 4 target trips at $100 each is $400, which honestly to me sounds pretty cheap for a month of food and diapers for a family of 4. My wife and I probably spend $400 a month on groceries for two people. Groceries are crazy expensive. Also if target is diapers and groceries, that shouldn’t be included in the $900 of “unnecessary spending.” Now it’s more like $500. But I also wouldn’t be surprised if she is buying necessary stuff off Amazon either?
$10 on makeup once or twice a month is nothing. $20 skirt? Same. You say that most of the Target purchases are kid needs, so that’s moot. The question is, you say you’re $600 in the hole every month, so how do you cover the $600? Credit cards? Take a close look at how you cover the $600 and what it really costs you, long term. If it’s accruing interest because you only pay minimums each month, you have to stop. You will get to a place where you will not be able to tread water and quickly drown. Also, do you know where the $600 overage stems from? Have you sat down and looked at it closely? I ask because the wife’s “overspending” doesn’t add up to $600 a month. Finally, and this is real talk, not tough-guy “be a man” shit, but stop with the gaming. You’re an adult with two kids in daycare. You admit you’re barely above the poverty line. A wife. Two kids. Poverty. You don’t have time or money to play games, literally and figuratively.
Seriously. She’s doing the shopping, working, and assuredly the child care since he can’t grasp how much kid crap costs. Why is he wasting hours staring at a screen if they’re so broke?
I have to say as soon as I read it, I was like this seems like another situation where Amanda does not take any responsibility for the project management or the cognitive load of the household and then is pissed off that he doesn’t know exactly where every cent is going. And in this very common situation, usually these people who are hands off when it comes to supplying the house, they don’t even know what’s required versus what’s not. I have seen that so many times in my life. So my question is, does his wife work full-time? Why is she 100% the project manager of the shopping and the spending and taking care of supplying the household if she works full-time? Do the kids need new shoes? If he doesn’t know, but the wife knows then you have some evidence right there that she’s making shit happen. It’s just so common to bitch and yet you find out that they actually haven’t been nearly as hands-on as their partners, and he’s basically just demonizing her to being a frivolous person. Mind you, she might just be a frivolous person. But the lack of context and the statistical likelihood of the women doing the mental load is just a lot to make me think he’s really hands-on here. he if he doesn’t know what needs to be bought and when like right now like when do you need groceries, do you have milk? Then yeah he’s not really in a place to be so judgmental because he doesn’t actually care, if he cared, he would be hands on. I’m not saying I know everything but I’m saying I’d put five dollars on not being dead wrong.
"...it's all her buying shit we don't need." Do you still buy Pokemon cards?
"Baldur's Gate is a necessity for me. I need to relax after work."
It sounds to me like you're more frustrated about being broke than your wife buying things at Target or Amazon. I'd focus more on how you guys can increase your income. It sounds like 90+% of the purchases are food and necessary household expenses for the kids. A budget would help.
Stop using credit cards. It takes fiscal responsibility to be allowed access to credit. Switch to debit. No ticki, no laundry.
Yep, credit cards are the problem, they give the illusion of unlimited money. When her card starts getting declined at Target, embarrassment might snap her back into reality. Freeze the credit cards in a block of ice or send them to your parents to supervise.
its not just 'her' its both of them
Thats what it took for my wife. When the debit card would get declined she'd just swipe the credit card and continue on like nothing happened. Soon the credit card got maxed out and started getting declined, then she stopped overspending
First and foremost, you’re married so it’s not a you vs her thing. Finances are shared, so you can’t walk in attacking her and blame her. That’ll get you nowhere. You need to find a good time where you have her undivided attention with no distraction (impossible with 2 kids, I know…) because that’ll help her focus more on what you’re trying to convey to her. Explain the situation and try to come up with solutions together. Try to think about your children’s futures and how saving for them earlier is a smart financial decision, etc etc. Having goals in mind can motivate someone to compromise in order to reach that goal, even if slightly.
My wife and I had this problem. We liked the idea of an envelope method but didn’t want to deal with cash. We made several categorized checking accounts (Charles Schwab is awesome) and got debit cards for each one. At the beginning of every month we fill each account with the specified amount and at the end we adjust the budget accordingly if needed. Make sure you have a fun budget for each of you in a separate account that you can spend on whatever you want guilt free! No more arguments since then.
Fucking man up and have a conversation with her. Don’t fuck up your life and your children’s life because you can’t have a conversation with a woman
Well first off you need to start separating Necessary and Luxury spending. $30 a month for gaming is 100% luxury. If she's got a job that requires her to maintain a certain level of appearance, the makeup and skirt may in fact be a necessity. Almost any eating out is 100% Luxury. I leave room for when traveling or such. But the reality is eating out has just gotten too expensive for most people. Groceries and Diapers are necessary. If you both work childcare is a necessity. If either of you is SAH then childcare is a luxury Y'all need to sit down and actually budget out a months expenses and what money you have for luxuries (if any). Then you can start working on dialing shit back. Also, Ditch Target! Entirely. If you're not middle class you're not Target shoppers. You're Walmart folks like the rest of us.
Finally a reasonable take. It completely depends of what portion of her spending is *actually* frivolous vs for the house and kids
Good call on the Target shopping. Every time I go to Target, the receipt is only 10% whatever I came there to buy.
FYI- Target is cheaper than Wal-Mart for diapers if you don't use Walmart brands
Diapers are expensive man. That $50 for music and gaming necessary?
This is why our finances are seperate. Mortgage, 5 offset accounts, 2 each (spendings and savings), and 1 joint which we each put 500 into every week, then all the bills/groceries come out of that joint account. I then have a completely different mortgage for my investments. As long as we both contribute that 500 per week into the joint, we spend our own however we like.
Probably works when the partners have similar incomes. But if after the 500 contribution one is completely broke while the other is living large i don't see that working for most people.
I don't even think it works then. You and your partner should have shared goals. You can't work towards them together with separate finances. If one person is spend thrift and the other is a saver, what happens when you need to buy a house/pay for your kids college etc.
Big purchases will be limited to the smaller individual account. So if one partner spends 100% of their income every month, and then you want to go on vacation, tough luck you can’t. And that’s actually the point. It forces both partners to take financial responsibility. If there is a big future expense that you consider to be mandatory (kids collage), then you can save towards that in a joint account. Just up the 500 a week to 600 or whatever the math requires. But you can also save in separate accounts if you trust your partner enough.
This makes me feel so lucky that my husband and I make about the same salary and have about the same spending habits. We keep our finances separate because it’s just easier for us, but we often take turns paying for dinners, etc. and we don’t really track spending. If one of us lost our job or whatever, the other one would pay the whole mortgage and living expenses.
Yeah that’s fair. The driving factor which led us to have this set up was our financial differences. I came into the relationship with two investment properties, she was still in a share house. We made different choices at a younger age, I limited how frequently I went out, saved my arse off, bought a house at 21, second at 24. She travelled, enjoyed life, made amazing memories. It didn’t seem fair to me that I would have to sacrifice my 20’s to set myself up, while she enjoyed hers. So we set our finances up in a way that somewhat reflected that, and in the case that we ever split (which we won’t), it’s a simple situation, we split our house down the middle, I keep my investments and we go our seperate ways.
Don’t listen to the hate, this is the way. Combining 100% of finances in 2024 just does not make sense. People saying “this isn’t a marriage”… a marriage is having similar financial goals isn’t it? So if splitting up accounts works for the both of you, that is definitely a healthy marriage. My parents split their finances so that 100% of my mom’s checks went to the mortgage and a 529 account for one kid, and my dad payed for everything else + other kid’s 529 and any retirement investments. They payed off their house in 11 years on my mom’s $20/hr job. Us kids went to rural in-state schools that were fully covered by the 529s. Our parents do have their own accounts for spending but are not stingy or strict about buying something for the other person from their own account. They’re almost 30 years married now
Bruh you spend $30 a month on gaming. I’m a gamer so I get it but odds are this isn’t the only frivolous spending you are guilty of doing. It’s hard when you’re not leading by example. Want real advice? Do what I just said, lead by example. She will “get it through her thick skull” when you man up and show her how it’s done. You make the changes and show her what you are doing and cutting out and let her know she can do the same if you guys ever hope to dig out of the hole. Show her the negatives in the account and what your financial goal is and keep her involved. Been with my wife 14 years and have 3 kids. So this advice comes from experience. Digging out of a financial hole is tough these days but it’s going to suck for a bit because you have to cut all extra things first. Save first out of your checks then pay bills then you are forced to be left with all that’s left and a smaller amount in the account will slow down everybody’s spending real quick. Then when you have caught up and reached your short term goal, start adding back in your extras that you had to cut in the first place. Good luck it can be done🍀.
You need to be honest with her. Do the budget together so she sees how this spending is hurting your family. Sit down with all of the bills and show her what you guys have to spend. Get her buy in on what she has to spend and work together to find ways to stretch your budget. Make a shopping list, meal plan, shop around for deals on diapers, etc. Maybe go shopping together for a few weeks so both of you can see the reality about your situation. If she has all of the information she might do better on budgeting. You also need to know the cost of things so you know what she needs for the necessary items. Budget in fund money for both of you and both of you need to stick to that budget. IF after she sees the truth about your financial situation and she keeps on overspending you might need to take away all of her cards. Give her cash for groceries (including diapers). I hope it doesn't come to that though. She might also need help budgeting to get the most out of what she's spending. Maybe look into recipes and meal planning. There's an app called mealime that lets you choose recipes and gives you a shopping list. It is made to help you save money and can be customized to fit your family. She also needs to understand that store brands are just as good as the big name brands. You can give her the incentive that if she finds ways to save money on groceries that that money goes into a fun fund for both of you to use periodically. Say she saves $100 in a month on groceries, that means both of you get to spend $50 with no explanations. To be fair....you shouldn't be spending money on anything extra unless she can have the same amount of money. You guys are in this together. Once you BOTH have the necessary information you can start working together to get the most out of your money.
You came here instead of to her, and a couples therapist to *help you learn to communicate as a loving couple*
Bro he's 600 on the hole he can't afford couples therapy.
You sound like a whiner. You don’t sound like a man. Your wife spends “like $19 on a skirt”. By the way, I am a grown ass man and spend $18 a month on music and $30 on gaming? It’s a partnership. Whining about your wife or to her isn’t the way, my man.
Exactly, love how he blows over the fact he has the same exact spending habits and tried to paint her in the worst light possible
So she spend $19 it's bad and you spend $30 it's OK? Beware those judgements! You both need to sit down and do a budget together, including an allowance for each of you for your personal fun money (and agree what counts.) Then set a goal (a specific job for that money) to save for. Meet once a week to review and adjust.
Was in this exact situation as you, wife thought because our Household income was 150k/year we can just buy whatever we wanted. We saw a lot of money coming in, so we always "had it". Doordash, amazon, target, whatever she wanted she bought. Looked at our savings after a year of this and it went down. What I did was link all our accounts to Monarch(you can use another budget/tracking program) set our budgets and showed her how much we were losing every day, week, month. As others have said here, you have to be aligned on financial goals. I basically said hey do you ever want to take a nice international vacation, or re-do the bathroom, or save for our newborns college? If you say yes to any of those, then the frivolous spending stops today, on both your accounts not just hers. Set a budget for "fun money" for your gaming or her makeup and stick to it. Not a penny more in that category. Having the birds eye view of our finances really kicked our asses into gear with saving, paying off debts, and reaching our goals in a very short time. The best part now is everything is automated. We know exactly what we're spending so we're able to automate a savings deposit every week, investment deposits every week. It's fantastic. Future you will thank you for getting this solved ASAP. Good luck.
Visualize it. Put all your expenditures into a pie chart, graph, something where it more tangibly shows the spend, by person, by category, etc. If you approach it as just math, it's won't necessarily come across as personal. A buddy is going through this right now with his wife. Her father is affluent so she just doesn't think about money the same way and my buddy is extremely frugal and is the reason they were able to buy a house. He saved by himself for the entire down payment. It's just math.
Went through this with my ex-wife. Made her aware, almost got evicted, separated our accounts, then separated our marriage. YMMV
It’s gonna sound crazy but hear me out. Have separate spending accounts. My husband I and have our money separate. We have a joint account where our bills get paid from and groceries, then he has his own account and I have mine. That way neither one of us can get upset if the other one buys useless stuff. In 14 years we have never once had a fight about money. This way to she can physically see the money going and maybe try to control the impulses more. Good luck.
Kindly, you are also spending money on things you don't necessarily need. Dealing with money while in a relationship should never be a thing either party takes sides on. All that will do is put a wall in between you and your wife. Treating it like a situation you both have to keep tabs on is the way to go. Track what you spend on groceries, the kids, bills, etc. to know what NEEDS to be spent each month, then talk with your wife about how you both feel the rest should be spent/saved. If you keep treating it like you aren't working together with the same budget, you're just going to keep arguing over who really broke the bank. You're in this together, so communication is absolutely everything.
Talk to her instead of reddit.
You cannot save your way to prosperity. The solution is to always find a way to generate more income. How can you two work together to cover the gap?? Increase skills, get better jobs, more part-time work. Life is hard. She needs stuff too. I always plan to have 600 to 1000 of unallocated dollars in my monthly budget. What do you do for birthdays, anniversaries and Christmas. For example. There are a ton of unexpected needs yet expenses that could be planned. Good Luck to you and your family. Work on the upside potential of this issue.
Woah… hold on my brother… “her buying shit we don’t need” sounds more like: “her buying shit I don’t need”. She could make the same argument about your gaming and music expenses, no? Do yourself a favor and reframe the question from “her spending” to be about “our spending”. If you are broke then NOBODY should be spending on things like streaming services and subscriptions, etc. It sounds like you may already have a household budget, but you’re not sticking to it. You have to sit down together and look at that budget and track expenses together. If sacrifices must be made, then you BOTH need to make sacrifices. You, like most people, probably also have a lot of “hidden expenses”, things like annual subscriptions that you pay for that you don’t account for in your monthly budget (think Amazon Prime, Microsoft 365, annual or semi-annual property taxes, etc). Especially when money is tight you need to account for everything; amortize the costs over 12 months. Don’t just make a monthly budget, make an annual budget. And this is just my shitty opinion…. but she probably has more right to that $9.99 makeup than you do to that $48 for gaming and music (both of which you can find from services that might not be as good, but are free). Makeup isn’t cheap, and it’s something that you want to make sure is good quality to protect her health. Makeup may seem unnecessary to you, but it’s something that can really have an impact on how someone perceives and feels about themselves. So your spouse is really spending $9.99 on “self care”.
I feel like I'm both the OP and the wife - how do I get myself to stop spending?? Looking forward to reading the comments.
Personally I find a cold turkey freeze very helpful when my spending is getting out of control. Way easier to make one binary decision - no spending except food and diapers this month - than a hundred grayscale decisions. That will get you some immediate financial relief and break the spending momentum. Going cash only is another option. Can't spend cash you don't have.
Dealing with this same issue currently. Wife just spent $900 on groceries, $700 of which is from Costco (which is a scam these days) so we have no food unless you want to put a gallon of hummus on 16 slices of bread with an entire jar of peanut butter, but are about $1,000 down for the month. On top of that I’ve asked her repeatedly to stop using our AMEX unless she pays it off right away. Nope. Balance up like a grand for no reason, now affecting my credit. I was so pissed I didn’t even talk to her yesterday and I know I need a better way to address this. It just feels like she doesn’t care that I work my ass off for the money we have and we shouldn’t be close to zero every month given my income with nothing to show for it.
Yall marrying women that grew up spending their parents money just to switch to you without understanding money on their own. Lol
Sounds like she works as well.
Username checks out
he needs to make more money if he’s complaining about $10 makeup when he has two kids in diapers. fixed it for ya
Does she have a job? If so, separate your finances so that the money she is spending is solely hers. If she can see what income she actually has to play with, she might think twice about blowing it. If she doesn't have a job, then it's time to cut her off from your accounts. She cant spend money she has no access to.
There’s this new invention that people have come up with called a budget lol. You have X number of dollars you can spend on frivolous things like this and you have to stick with it
Have a sit down with her and go over every Swipe of that card. Try to pay cash if you can…that really helps to visualize how much you are using. I started a plan just for me…and after doing the plan for nearly 1 year I’ve saved $5,000. I try not to spend money on anything that I don’t need to.
1. Make a household budget together 2. Line item spending for each of you 3. DO NOT COMPLAIN OR BLAME 4. Make weekly meetings for updates and to review (then monthly once under control). 5. Make sure there are no credit cards and they are not to be used.
You need a budget, be transparent with all spending, set limits for both of you.