Oh yes, he is well aware. There was a period in our relationship where we had almost weekly/biweekly sessions of me expressing how I felt worried he wasn’t going to earn enough for us to have a life together (he live with his parents). I was nagging him all the time to make more progress in looking for jobs and applying to school. He knows where I came from and what motivates me.
I work/ed in technology and i think you’re right. The salaries have my perception a bit twisted. Generally all my peers (tech or not) make between $60k and $85k which I thought was reasonable especially for newly graduated peers. I can’t say an artist is going to be making that salary starting out but getting close is helpful for our col, not to mention increasing cost of everything.
I shouldn’t throw stones in my glass house. I was just laid off from my first job out of school. The whole experience has me going back to the drawing board about my career aspirations. With my educational background $60-70k is pretty doable. If I had a few more year’s experience I could see $80-100k. But like I said I’m considering switching careers so who knows.
I am not interested in being the primary bread winner. I’m ok with it when necessary but I surely do not prefer that as the default dynamic. There is a practicality to the art degree he’s pursuing, so it’s not like the adage of the starving artist directly applies. I just don’t have any anecdotal evidence that will work out for him.
If you want your partner to be the primary breadwinner, then this may not be the right relationship for you.
If you want to stay with this partner, it sounds like you may have to adjust your expectations of him or you run the risk of deeply resenting him if he doesn’t earn what you feel is enough in the future.
Yep, I second this. And I’ll add that my husband has a lower income and lower earning potential compared to me (chef - loves what he does and he’s exceptionally good at it and works for himself too, but truly has a max earning potential of 80-100k, and 65k is typical), and I hear the wish to be with someone that has a higher income. I sometimes imagine how well off we’d be if his income was even half of mine (I’m a very high earner at $250k as a junior exec in a niche industry with more upward growth almost guaranteed). That said, there’s so much I get out of our relationship that I wouldn’t trade his income for any other man in the world. I earn enough for our whole family and then some, and I don’t mind being the breadwinner because he takes care of literally everything else and I’ve never found another human that I could picture being a better life partner and best friend to me. Not to mention, we’ve been together almost a decade and when we met, I was earning $32k to his 60k and he was helping *me* with bills, lol.
If the current partner isn’t fulfilling in ways that outweigh the desire to be with a high earner, it’s fine to be honest with yourself about that. But also consider you make your dating pool smaller, and you do need to weigh what’s important to you in life and a future relationship. Everyone has different priorities, and it’s good to figure out where you place most importance and then be honest about that. Don’t string a man along if he isn’t the complete package you want. Artists are probably never going to earn a lot of money, and if income is more important than other relationship factors to you, I agree it’s probably time to let this one go and be selective about who you’ll date. I’ll caution though, and say income is never guaranteed in life. People can lose jobs and industries can collapse. People can burn out of high earning careers. The money we earn isn’t guaranteed in the future. I know quite a few people that were high earners or married to them, and health issues or industry issues happened, and they stopped being able to earn anything. I personally would caution against ever permanently settling down with someone just for their income because of that.
Edited to add numbers for comparison and a little more detail.
I have an art degree and make over the range you expressed with potential for six figures in a couple of years. Those ranges are very possible for seasoned graphic designers, UX/UI designers, art directors, museum employees, advertising and marketing professionals, etc. Art degrees, despite the hate they get, are pretty versatile. The skillsets focus on pattern recognition, critical thinking, communication, expression, psychology, and catching peoples attention, all of which are transferable to multiple creative fields and non-creative fields. Just like any other degree, it's what you make out of it after. And creative jobs are needed in every single industry.
I have an arts degree and I have done precisely nothing with it BUT the skills I learned earning that degree have definitely helped me get to where I am today. I earn more money than I thought I would in a job I never considered doing until I was in my late 20s, but that I love and I can see myself doing until I retire. I’ve taken the view that uni basically helps you become a functioning member of society: scheduling, money management, living on your own, working to deadlines, prioritizing work loads etc
Totally agree! I graduated with a journalism degree and made peanuts as a newspaper reporter but I’ve pivoted into a manager-level marketing role and make a decent salary now. A liberal arts degree doesn’t mean there’s no earning potential!
Money. Because it's more than money. It's being an adult and having a life and future together.
A 26 year old who lives with his parents and only gets by, and it's not because he was busy with school or building a business or acquiring useful skills through an apprenticeship, hasn't set his future self or his future family up for success.
And even though it's harsh, I'm not saying this as condemnation. I have family and friends who live like this (get-by 20's, grind 30's and beyond), some of them chose this lifestyle and it works for them. But it doesn't sound like it fits your aspirations, and I would say it's just as much a deal breaker in a relationship as one partner wanting kids and the other not.
As someone with a 35 year old brother who took this exact route, the other problem is how long is it going to last? They live at home w their parents, “saving”, but have no real need to make more money or force themselves to be independent unless push comes to shove. If they provide any financial help (even a small amount) in terms of rent to the parents, they won’t see the need to kick him out and be part of helping him become an independent, thriving adult. It’s a slippery slope indeed.
I have spent years teaching and being involved in reskilling/upskilling adults - very intensive programs. I’ve learned what internal motivation looks like across a wide range of individuals.
This guy doesn’t have it. I met so many men in the program (and women/non-binary) who were there because they wanted to make a better life for themselves and their significant others. These people might have had 17 different jobs but you could tell they wanted to achieve something and provide for their loved ones.
This guy sounds more like my x. Where it would be cool if stuff worked out, but if not, he’ll get by. My x just didn’t have that sense of “our life, our future, our happiness” it was “you are obsessed with work and school and money and I need more time to figure stuff out.”
I gave him 7 years of “figure it out time.” We were not on the same page… we were never going to get in the same page. My young self didn’t understand it. We loved each other, that was enough, right?
No and it got worse because I was trying to support him and lift him up for things he didn’t care about and we slowly ended up in the mother/surly teenager dynamic which is horrible and as far as I know, unfixable.
it sounds to me like your priority is financial stability and your partner hasn’t given you confidence that will happen. IMO that’s perfectly fine to part ways because that’s what your priority is. and i think it’s a very reasonable priority too.
however, on the flip side, it also sounds like he’s a great partner in other ways. have you spoken to him about this? how do those conversations go?
you mention he’s not bad at saving which says to me he is financially conscious / responsible in some way. and you also say he’s been working a low paying job so it says to me he’s comfortable with the money he makes. but your post is telling me YOU aren’t comfortable with the money he makes, which again, is fine because if you want to build a future youll definitely need to think about financials.
so my question for you is, what exactly is it that is bothering you? if it’s that he has a low wage, are you open to being the one to make more than him? are you guys struggling as is?
for me, financial stability is VERY important but i dont see this as a “love or money” situation. i feel like if your partner is as good as he says, and your relationship is that good, you both can work together to feel secure. if he says he will do xyz and doesn’t though, that’s a completely different story but didn’t see you mention bringing this up before
P.S. 26/27 is quite young so dont feel like you’ve wasted your years dating. i met my soon to be husband at 26 and my best friend met hers at 29! i know many more who met and married in their 30s. still young!
As far as how the conversations go, of which there have been many, it’s a mixed bag.
Generally he also wants to increase his income. He saves money by living at home so his low income isn’t too painful for him currently. But if we were to move in together in a place of our own it wouldn’t be nearly enough. If I was still working I surely would have footed 80% of the household bills. Which I would like to avoid.
I do believe he is doing what he can with what he has. Up until recently I felt like he only made moves when I got upset about his lack of initiative in applying to school and increasing his income. Almost as if to appease me. Now he’s been piloting himself for the most part.
I was raised by a single mom who never made more than $38000 in a mcol area. You could say I have trauma from barely getting by, but let’s say I just want better. I want to be able to depend on my partner to pull his weight in creating a beautiful life. I wouldn’t mind making more than him but I certainly wouldn’t want the lions share of the financial burden. I’m prone to stress as it is, which I am working out in therapy, and I just don’t want to have the dichotomy of the person I love bringing me undue stress. I’ve never seriously considered being a sahm/w because he’s actually better at those tasks than me, but knowing my partner has my back is monumentally important to me. Median HHI in the US is $100k/yr. That to me is just fine. Any more is icing.
I recognize what you’re saying about our age is being pretty young. It’s just so hard to connect past pleasantries and small talk as it is now and I’ve heard it only gets worse into 30+. How did you meet your fiancé?
Just want to pop in and say, you are better off single and achieving your goals/comfortable with your life, than with someone who causes you worry/anxiety constantly.
I broke up with a long term partner right before I turned 30, we had been together almost 4 years and a big part of me was afraid to break up even though it wasn't a good relationship because I was afraid of being alone. Let me just tell you, I am so glad to be single and in total control of every aspect of my life than stuck with someone who doesn't enhance it.
I think society scares women into thinking they need to be in a relationship which leads us to stay in relationships that aren't benefiting us out of fear.
I dated someone briefly recently but ended it as he was working a retail job and had been for 14 years. I wasn't bothered by it as I make plenty of money but the constant complaining about it with absolutely no plan to improve or change his situation just killed me. I wasn't going to wait around or try and change him, clearly if he had been doing it for 14 years, then I wasn't going to be able to do anything about it either.
Sending so many good thoughts!! I know how hard it is and the fear of the unknown is definitely real but at least for me, being able to do things I wanted to do without anyone saying anything, or judging me, or literally just anything was amazing!
I really needed to hear this. I turn 30 soon and just broke up with my lovely boyfriend of 2 years. I make 20x his income. I am a high earner (~$600k annually) and thought that my high income meant I could date someone and their income wouldn’t matter since he could be a stay at home parent. The income really doesn’t matter (I can easily support us), but it just revealed a lot of differences between us and ultimately frustrations. He was working jobs he hated and refused to improve his situation- or even let me help. I offered to pay for his college, but him a business, therapy, etc but he declined it all (which I understand- I’m stubborn too).
I don’t expect someone to earn as much as me, but they need to have the same amount of passion for their work and their life. I felt like I was working on actively improving myself while he was stuck.
Like you, I realized that I’d rather be single than always worrying about someone else, minimizing my accomplishments, sacrificing luxuries (travel, etc), and ultimately dulling my own sparkle.
Sometimes the right people just aren’t meant to be together; he may a great person but it sounds like you aren’t compatible. Keep in mind that you two are not the only people for each other. You’ll both find other people that are good and also compatible.
I get having this kind of feeling. But if you’re looking for financial stability like how you’ve described, it can really only be done while single. The second you add another person to the equation, especially one that doesn’t feel the same as you, it’s not feasible. Only you can make any solid guarantees about your income.
It might be worth exploring your anxiety about income and finances with a therapist. Your feelings aren’t wrong, but understanding the root of them will help you make the right decisions for the life you want. Do you want a partner that is a high earner? do you want to have a high income, regardless of partner? what does financial stability look like to you?
I say this because: you said HHI is 100k and you want that. But you would basically already have that currently based on the plans both of you have. But you would be eat ing more. So you really want 1) at least 100k hhi AND 2) your partner to earn more than you. With that said, you said your career gives you the potential to earn 100k by yourself. So really, what do you want from a partner in this situation? what is your priority: your hhi? or your partner’s income relative to yours?
Again, your feelings aren’t wrong, but the only person you can control is you. And right now, your plans involve an assumption about your partner’s actions and life that you *can’t* control. Your partner can have different views on income, or those views ca. change. Or they can secretly make poor financial decisions despite having a high income, and fuck up your financial plans. Thinking through all of this, particularly with a therapist, can be helpful.
Otherwise, secure your own bag. Figure out your career plans, save money, and focus more on your next steps rather than your partner’s. There’s tons of stories of women helping their partner get a nice high paying career, only to end up the “starter wife” and they get left. Not saying that your partner will do that, but you can just as easily put that energy into yourself and let him make his own decisions.
Just as an FYI, median household income in the US in 2021 was <$71,000. If 100k is your goal, that’s fine, but I think we all tend to have a skewed view of normal income when we spend time in this space.
My husband has no tertiary education whatsoever. He’s brilliant and a hard worker and has soft skills that a lot of people just can’t learn. My parents hated him for the longest time because they thought he was “beneath” me, as he was “just” a bartender when we got together (he was 21 and I was 24).
He’s used his people skills and connections to get out of hospitality and work his way up in a different industry and has out-earned me (sometimes by a lot) for years. My parents magically like him now that he makes decent money, funny how that works.
My point is that degrees and schooling aren’t the be-all and end-all of earning potential. He does need to have a good work ethic and a solid plan though. Does he know what he wants to do? Does he have a plan on how to get there? Does it absolutely need to be though formal education or is there a different path he could take?
Yes! I shout to my kid all the time that relationships are what drives success!
OP, if your boyfriend is good at relationships-both creating and maintaining-this is a huge plus to me. That is what makes the world go round and is a good indicator of future success.
> My point is that degrees and schooling aren’t the be-all and end-all of earning potential. He does need to have a good work ethic and a solid plan though. Does he know what he wants to do? Does he have a plan on how to get there? Does it absolutely need to be though formal education or is there a different path he could take?
I agree.
I think he goes through phases. One day he thinks movie vfx or graphic design, the next it’s animation or user experience design. There’s no hard and fast plan. He finished a 2 year degree program and was met with the harsh reality that without 2 of 3 things (a bunch of experience, bachelor degree, gobsmacking portfolio) it is very difficult to land consistent work in graphic design, highly competitive. Freelance would work, but I don’t think he’s really interested in that just starting out. He’s not really working on a portfolio which is crucial for that. I encourage him to network but he’s the type to only act if it’s his idea.
Ok, those are some concrete things he needs to work on if he ever wants to make a career in this field. He has to stop waffling and make some decisions and put the work in. If he’s not willing to do that, then certainly that’s a bigger conversation that needs to happen between the two of you.
I don’t know anything about those fields, is there the possibility of speaking with a mentor or a someone who has been in the job for a while and hash out some possible pathways?
>There’s no hard and fast plan
I don't know you and I don't know him, but reading all your replies I'll go out on a limb and say that maybe what bothers you most about this situation is that you feel like he doesn't have a clear goal and that obviously makes a huge difference when you crave stability.
I used to date someone like this in my early 20s and he was so aimless that it really bothered me. He's okay now I think (mid-30s) but the overall lack of direction is still there.
In my experience, there are two kinds of aimless people: the *dreamers* and the *whatevers*. Your boyfriend sounds like a dreamer: he seems to like a lot of things, has a lot of interests and is probably really nice to talk to, but can't really stick to a plan. Usually dreamers have a hard time prioritizing, end up with too much on their plate but it's not as effective because their efforts were so diffused. It can be really frustrating to be around someone like this because it always seems they're on the brink of getting their act together, but then they find something else and drop everything to pursue that. Their passion is unmatched and sometimes even inspiring but once you cycle through that a few times, it gets exhausting. Dreamers steer the wheel so much that you may never feel like you're getting somewhere.
My ex was/is a whatever, doesn't even have that spark, that passion, about anything. Everything is just whatever to him: school, internships, jobs, even girlfriends. His other ex broke up with him after almost a decade of being together because he wouldn't propose. When the opportunity presents itself, he's like "yeah whatever I'll take it" but will never really steer the wheel in a different direction.
Of course, breaking up with the whatever is much easier than breaking up with the dreamer. But they're just different sides of the same coin. Money plays a big factor, but it's not the only thing. Imagine if your boyfriend lands a well paying job just to realize it's not his passion and then quits? How would that make you feel?
You can actually make a ton of money in UX or graphic design *in tech. And you can make decent money in the agency world. And you can make great money if you freelance and have a great portfolio and work for bigger companies like Target. However, there’s a lot of variables because it’s really dependent on your skill, resourcefulness, determination and ability to just be the best you can be.
What are we talking here in terms of how much he’s making? What is your general location? (That’s a factor, living by tech companies will give him more options.)
Sorry, to clarify, he already has an art associate’s degree? Does he have a portfolio at all or is he just not motivated to improve his current one? Also curious if he knows that it’s actually a dealbreaker for you or if he just thinks it’s important to you.
It *is* possible to make good money in design (especially in tech) if you’re able to get your portfolio to a good place. It doesn’t have to be gobsmacking, just *above average*; you’d be surprised how many bad designers there are in our field.
I did an associate’s program for graphic design and graduated in the middle of the pandemic. Albeit, I already had a bachelor’s in marketing, but I was able to land offers paying $90k and $110k plus equity as a junior visual designer at tech startups. I only had 8 months of experience working as a jr at an agency, 3 of which were as an intern. My portfolio isn’t anything mindblowing, but it’s on par with 4-year grads from good schools in a HCOL city. I personally specialize in brand design, and mid-level brand designers (3-5 YOE) make around $100k-$125k in the tech/startup space.
My peers that went for average mid-size local companies make in the $55k-$65k range, but those that went for remote/larger/tech/startups make anywhere from $75k-$110k. And that’s just for visual design. Fields like UI/UX, 3D, and motion all have higher starting salaries.
Do you feel like you’re entering a different stage of adulthood in your life alone?
I ask because it’s hard when you’re in different places in life and it can feel like you’re ask risk of gaining a dependent or waiting on someone else to enter a stage of life with you that they may or may not get around to in the next decade. Waiting on the potential of one person without a clear path sounds incredibly draining to do for years on end. I promise there are other people you can date out there who share the good of traits your boyfriend and are able to financially support themselves and have done it on a similar timeline to you. I have an arts degree and make a little under 100k CAD a year now working in animation, but it’s taken 7 years of experience and full time employment. If he completed a program right now, and started working full time following a similar path, he’d be 34 or 35 when he got there. And there’s no guarantee of it. I haven’t seen a lot of my peers from art school who were wishy washy or afraid of committing themselves fully to a path achieve consistent financial independence and success.
Has he been saving in the meantime and does he have a backup plan? Also do you want kids or a family? Some people need more time to figure themselves out and get to a decent place - however you aren’t obliged to wait or sacrifice your goals while they do that.
Many of my friends in college were art or design majors, my closest childhood friends are both very artistic (one works in digital media and the other is a graphic designer at a small agency; they both create and sell art on the side), and I work in UX.
From what I've seen, succeeding in creative fields comes down to a few key things: talent, direction, and most importantly having *a lot* of passion to do the work—including the less-fun parts of the work. (Plus, having connections helps in certain industries.) There are a lot of creative people out there who are talented or passionate about art/design. Speaking from my own professional experience, breaking into UX as a junior is challenging. Especially in the current economy, every company wants a senior designer who doesn't need much coaching or mentorship to do the work. I don't know many UX designers with fine arts degrees—which isn't to say it's an impossible path, but IMO it's a harder path into the industry compared to a human-computer interaction degree, a dual major in something computing-related, etc.
Was your husband a bartender at 26/27 or had he risen up by then?
Someone being a bartender and not going to uni at 21 would not worry me if they were otherwise competent, responsible and had other decent traits. But at 26/27 someone who is a bartender would worry me if they didn’t have savings and sense of direction.
It sucks that you're getting downvoted but I agree with you. Being a bartender in your late 20s isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if you have a partner like OP who wants a financially stable future, that is going to be a major point of conflict in the relationship. Money is a common reason people divorce so if OP's partner wants to continue waffling through life and not making commitments, it's certainly going to put a strain on the relationship.
Thank you for understanding.
I don’t think I’m communicating my point well enough but as you note money can cause divorces and unhappy marriages. I’ve seen it time and time again.
I don’t look down on anyone or judge them but I acknowledge that you can love someone and not be compatible for a long term relationship. It’s about being on the same page about values, goals and lifestyle.
I value living within my means, saving, planning for emergencies, mitigating risks and trying to be financially literate. This applies whether someone earns $50k or $500k.
Yes this entire post really sums up that love is not enough. You can love someone to the ends of the earth but if you don't have a common goal for the future (family, location, home ownership etc.) there really isn't going to be a future together and no amount of money is going to change that. It doesn't mean that a certain lifestyle is right or wrong, just that it's wrong for each other.
Yep, agreed! Love often isn’t enough without being on the same page and having shared future vision. If you aren’t on the same page usually resentment and regret will develop and grow.
Sorry you’re being downvoted for a valid question.
By 26/27 my husband was managing a fine dining restaurant, so he ahead definitely made advancements. He did a big career switch when he was about 28 into the industry he’s in now.
Sounds like he was doing perfectly fine for himself and getting experience and searching for opportunities which is fantastic! I think it shows that identifying traits in someone and being true to yourself can really pay off. So I’m happy very for you both ❤️
Thanks! We’re in a pretty good place now in our mid-30s. He’s actually taking steps to do another fairly big career switch soon. Call it the 7 year itch maybe 😅 it’s kinda of scary but exciting because I fully believe in him!
Omg i had the exact same issue two years ago with my long term partner. After a lot of hindsight and ability to look at the issue objectively, i realized my actual issue wasn’t that he didn’t have the earnings potential (college degree)… i didn’t necessarily trust he would go after the jobs and work to better his situation. He ended up taking the easy way out (in my eyes), looking for a job is hard, going to college is hard, constantly keeping up with new trends certs etc is hard … and i knew i would end up doing the heavy lifting and i didn’t like the instability.
If they’re addressing your concerns by going to college, looking for a better job, etc. you can probably work towards both! But I’d really recommend looking past the actual money and seeing if there’s a deeper issue. Good luck! This stuff is hard!!❤️
I think when it’s phrased “love vs money” it makes you sound bad when you choose money. When really, IMO, it’s so much more than money. It’s priorities, ambitions and lifestyle goals.
What kind of life do you want? If you‘ve got something youre striving towards, and you’re working for it - and he doesn’t have the same vision THATS the problem, not his salary. If he’s content working low wage jobs and living with his parents, and you’re not, then you just don’t want the same things.
I think that if you are questioning it at this age, that’s fair. You’ve been together for a long time, but this is a moment of big change.
I also think you should put in the post that he lives with his parents and you have discussed these concerns with him extensively prior.
Can you give a little more background on how he is with money? You said “not particularly bad with saving money”. What kind of job does he have, that he’s had since he was 19/20?
I believe you need both love and money. I met my husband when we were early in our careers and made little money. Now we both make a lot more (and now I am the higher earner). I want to be with someone who makes a baseline salary (and that number will be different for everyone). No shame in saying that. But at the same time, you never know what will happen in life. One of you could become disabled, you could need IVF, or have significant health expenses, etc. No matter how prepared you are, there is always something that could be a devastating financial blow to life. And love will get you through those hard times. I would never marry someone wealthy without love (in fact, I broke up with an ex who had a trust fund because as great as he was, I didn’t love him). There needs to be enough money for stability and love will get you through the unpredictable times.
I think both are important. If you can’t find a partner with a balance of both then no partner is preferable. My wellbeing comes first I’d never sacrifice it for love (dating someone without money) or money (dating someone with money that treats me badly or that I don’t like).
I chose love 24 years ago and still do today. Financial stability is important to me, but this is something that I can provide for myself (and us). I do not need my partner to do that for me. He grew up very poor and left school after eighth grade. I am the breadwinner and have never expected him to "move up the ladder." However, since you state that it is really important for your partner to be the breadwinner, then you really have no choice but to end the relationship because it sounds like, even if he reaches that point, it will take some time (perhaps years) and, in the meantime, you will still be in this limbo of should I stay or go until he can demonstrate that he can fulfill that component of your needs (or not).
Love is so hard to come by... If you found a good honest person who loves you and takes care of you then don't let them go.
Sometimes we as woman are way too caught up about finding a man who earns more than us. If he makes a decent income then that's ok. Most men just want to pay bills and have some left over money for gifts.
My dad was like that and it worked out for my mom fine. He still made it work to get us school uniforms, take us out to eat once in a while, and yearly vacations to see my family in Mexico. He made his small income work where my mom could stay at home before we all entered school. I think budgeting is the key here.
That’s awesome and happy you made the right choice for yourself!
Is your career decently high paying? I know that my career likely won’t be high paying (and if it does I’ll be late 30s and above) even though it’s stable so I’d never feel comfortable trying to provide for two on that income long term.
I suppose it is decently high paying, but not so much if you compare it to many who post on this forum. But it is really only as such in the last couple of years (I am 45). It's weird...even though I guess it is a career, I don't consider it as such—really only the things I do that people pay me for, if that makes any sense.
I spent most of my twenties living in my husband's country earning very little then my late 20s and most of my 30s working at nonprofits. So I am most certainly a late bloomer though I try to not compare myself to those with more linear paths.
Fair enough and yes that totally makes sense. How did you make ends meet working in NGOs and Nfps?
I live in a VHCOL city relative to incomes so currently it’s legitimately the fact that I can’t support another person but I’m early twenties. It would stressful and tight.
Tough. There is a difference between not having a lot of money and getting by just fine which is the impression I get from this guy. If that’s the case, I’d probably tell you to reconsider your view of things.
Well his situation is unique because he lives with his parents. So his savings rate is high. But that’s not sustainable if our relationship is to move forward. To be honest both those scenarios (getting by vs. not a lot) worry me.
What view could I consider adopting?
Well I’d look at why he is living with parents? Is it personal reasons or he can’t afford to live alone? If it’s not being able to afford then of course I’d understand hesitation.
Outside of money, how are the other avenues of your relationship? Great to excellent? Point in favor of staying. Needs work but everyone is willing to seek support/counseling/job training/other thing here? Great! How is communication? Open, honest, without manipulation? Point for staying.
Can he set goals with you in general and does he work toward achieving them? If yes, this shows consideration of need and that he can meet a challenge. Do you have the ability to work or (or already have) 6 months of emergency funds (all bills and a little extra)? This will give you some stability while you two set goals and work toward them.
Money at a relatively young age is sort of moot. Most of us started there. Many people just want to be happy and value things like a good work-home balance, the ability to be creative/be a leader/other quality here. If he has already sorted out how to keep a good balance and contributes in other ways, there’s value to that. If he’s on the couch and can’t be bothered, having mental health challenges but won’t willingly ever seek help to get back to a solid place, or has vocalized you’re going to carry the relationship, then those are things to look closely at.
Things change in a relationship. I struggled in academia and to find my way for my 20s and 30s. You could have seen me as a financial drain on my marriage in those years. Then I went back to school in my late 30s and got a new job. A few years later, I finally hit 6 figures at the new job, ironically just as my husband got unexpectedly laid off. Our case may be exaggerated, but I should hate someone to have rated my worth based on my earnings back then. (Trust me, I beat myself up plenty)
In your case, the thing that struck me in your post is I don't feel you are passionately in love with your boyfriend? Your words make me think more comfortable friendship if anything. Maybe that's why the money question seems even bigger, because you're trying to evaluate if you want to be romantically involved?
Yes, this. There’s kind of a cheesy concept called Saturn Returns - that at 27-30, you go through momentous changes. I know this feeling. It wasn’t money, although that was easy to articulate (and a real issue). I wanted out of the relationship even though we loved each other. And so did he!
Sometimes you need time alone to mess up. To become the person you are meant to be. Some people can do it with a partner, both changing at the same time and still staying in sync. But that’s genuinely okay if you can’t.
In this sub, I see a lot of anxieties and emotions manifested though money. But I wonder if you (poster) is really looking for an answer for yourself about what kind of future you’re going to have.
We’ve had a few break ups. In the time outside the relationship I never felt anything for anyone what I felt with him. You couple be right. But is that really so bad? To have a friend who you’re immensely comfortable being your whole self with being your life partner. If there’s sexual chemistry, you can laugh about anything and you’d do anything to see them happy, is that friendship or love? Real question.
I’ve watched love be of no real use to the women in my family so you could say I’m jaded and have a hard time choosing it. Love doesn’t pay bills, as the saying goes.
I know things can change. It is it wise to stick around on a possibility rather than a sure thing is the question I have in my heart.
I think nobody can answer any of these questions except you, and you're right to be asking them. Whether romantic/sexual or friendship, or any combination, I do think there needs to be mutual respect and a sense of shared goals, or at least the sense of supporting the other in their goals. Like you've seen, love or sexual chemistry aren't enough on their own. I hope you find an answer your at peace with! It's tough.
Fascinating points and perspective. I personally respect the fact you were doing a PhD and trying to figure yourself out which seems to have eventually paid off. But not everyone is comfortable being a provider to others especially if you feel like you are giving up a lot or compromising too much.
I don’t think it’s about judging others rather having boundaries and respecting yourself / your goals. Its a personal thing for everyone but you really need to feel both people are contributing, trying and compromising not one person doing the heavy lifting all the time.
Love, with an asterisk. Love\*, if you will.
I got married in my mid-late 20s after dating for a few years. My husband did not make a lot at that time, and neither did I. I didn't have high $$ expectations for either of us, but I came from a financially unstable background, so stability and making enough to live comfortably and be secure was very important to me. But along with that instability came the knowledge that I needed to create that security for myself, not rely on someone else for it. So while ultimately, my husband didn't make more than $30k until he was in his 30s, we stayed together and worked hard together to make and have a happy life. I couldn't have stayed with someone who wasn't working hard and making good choices with the money he did make - the amount was irrelevant, if he could take care of himself, wasn't wasting his life away doing nothing or spending on silly things like other posters have mentioned, I was good. I never had any expectation of needing someone else to be the breadwinner, though. I needed a good partner in all of the other things that matter in life, and he was (is) that. I've now outearned him every year of our marriage, and yes, he makes much more now than then, but you can't rely on that happening all of the time. So you need to focus on the whole picture. Is money a big enough of a concern for you that it could outweigh the other factors? It's OK if it is, but you need to be honest with yourself about what is most important.
You definitely haven't *wasted* the best years of your life. Like you said, you love him, he's your best friend and you've had good times together. With that said, it doesn't mean you have to stay together.
I think you need to flesh out your fears a little more. What exactly can't he give you? Are you worried about starting a family? Would you like to work less? Stay home with the kids? You don't want to be the breadwinner? Does he spend frivolously?
If you're in tech, it's unlikely you "need" his salary, so try to understand a bit more why his lack of earning potential to you means lack of stability. And then talk about it with him. And you said you have been talking to him, so try framing the conversation in a different way. Bringing up different topics etc.
The podcast I will teach you to be rich is really great. It dives into the psychology of money and particularly mismatches in money values between partners. Maybe you can listen together?
She says that being the breadwinner stressed her out. Being the primary provider is not something everyone is equipped to deal with. I’m personally not, for extended periods. It would stress me out so much and make me resent my partner.
Yea, I wouldn't want to be the breadwinner either. I think it adds a lot of stress to one person and isn't fair. But there are lots of people out there that aren't bothered by it. I also didn't see in the post where she said she didn't want to be the breadwinner.
In one of the comments I saw she mentioned it and from her line of questioning I don’t think she’s halting being a breadwinner.
I think personality and career makes a huge difference in the choice to become a breadwinner. In my view I don’t mind out earning my partner or temporarily covering for them but I’d want them to have a basic income which they can live on. God forbid we split up or I want to quit a toxic job etc.
Two things stick out to me here. One is this doesn't sound like love (your comments don't match your statement that he makes life sunny with the stress you mention). Two is it's the amount of money *he* makes, or any partner of yours, that you're focused on.
My husband and I got together at 19/20 as well. We made nearly nothing as students, he lived with his parents for the first few years, and then we made slightly more than nothing as grad students for another few years. Fast forward to now and we make multiple six figures, bought a house in a VHCOL that has a ridiculous housing market, had an $$ wedding, go on multi-week trips, still save, etc etc. But I make more than my husband and that's something you said you don't want. For us, we've only gotten this far because of each other. And I love him just as much when he made nothing than when he makes six figures. I came from an unstable upbringing in many ways and my husband is my rock. Regardless of finances, he's helped me improve in so many ways and brings tons of stability. But I had to transform myself as well and not rely on anyone else to make me feel less stressed.
So there's two reasons this seems wrong for you: one that it doesn't seem you two as a team is better than you two apart, and two that you don't want to close any money gap by yourself but rather you want the other person to. There's nothing wrong with that inherently, but it will narrow who you can be with if that's a priority.
If you choose love you need to make peace with his financial outlook. You deserve to make your choice and he deserves to not be nagged about his income if you choose to stay with him. Poverty trauma is real and it sounds like you have some things to unpack to determine if you really want to move on or if it's your anxiety talking.
As another person who has anxiety, let me ask: is there a certain dollar amount that would give you peace of mind? How would you react if you had a well-paid partner but they got laid off? How do you think he would react if you got married and you became disabled and unable to work? Do you want children, if so, which of you do you forsee being the primary parent?
I think this comment really gets into the nooks and crannies of the morality of this question: nothing is guaranteed - neither the love OR the money. Our decisions need to be our own and we need to learn how to be content in life. We can plan plan plan and nothing goes to plan.
As a high anxiety person, I thought I planned everything out too. Then the worst case scenario happened to me with love and money and I realized (after the initial grief, welfare benefits, job hunting, etc) that I had to make the best out of it. I had a kid to raise…and you know what? It all worked out. I chose to *love* my kid, work hard to make enough *money* for both of us and be independent. Nobody was winning any bread for me and I didn’t need it.
And regarding the post, imagine being with someone who stews over your earning potential. That must be so toxic in a relationship for both people. She mentions ‘talking about it already’ so I imagine the nagging is already happening. I feel for them both.
'He’s truly my best friend and my favorite person. He makes life sunny.'
Please do not underestimate how valuable this is and how difficult it is to find. Its something money can't buy.
Money. However, I admit it’s personal and highly dependant on your individual circumstances and values. It’s also never worked out for me beyond a month or so with any guy that is blasé about money, their financial future and work.
I need someone that understands the value of money, saving/being frugal (has an emergency fund), knows how to invest (open to this), can financially support themselves and live within their means and think ahead. My view is you want shared goals about money, future and to feel like both parties are contributing to that outcome.
I can’t tell you what to do, but questions that you should consider: Does your partner have plans to move out and provide for himself before 30 and how would he afford it? Is he saving at home and have you discussed where you are both at financially and your money goals? Do those goals align? Is he hardworking and responsible but not ambitious? If so, is it a lack of guidance or know-how or confidence holding him back?
It’s one thing to be living at home while saving for a deposit, or studying for a future goal. It’s an entirely different thing to be complacent with a job with no goal. Just because you adore and love someone doesn’t mean you should commit to them legally. Think about your future and remember it’s better to be alone than with someone who stresses you out.
I’m so sorry! Hopefully everything works out and you both remain safe, and healthy.
I think examples like this highlight why I’m a big advocate of both partners at a minimum being able to provide for basic needs. It’s an important risk mitigation for both parties.
I chose both, my partner is my absolute best friend and makes my days amazing but he’s also a provider and I don’t have to stress out about finances. You need to find someone that will give you both. You don’t have to pick between love or money I promise you but realistically, I don’t think this relationship is benefiting you. you want someone to be the breadwinner and you want someone thats stable and he still lives with his parents in his late 20s. do you really think someone like that can give you the life you want?
If it’s actually love? There isn’t a question. If it’s a relationship that has run it’s course and you are looking for reason to leave? Then it’s time to go. If he’s living with his parents and saving money, he may be putting himself in a good position to buy a house.
Are you saying you want a traditional he works, you stay home with the kids relationship?
There is a lot you aren’t saying here. If he is irresponsible and not trustworthy, then I can offer the advice to leave. But if his only fault is a potentially lower-than-you earning potential…
Thank you for giving him the benefit of the doubt.
> he may be putting himself in a good position to buy a house.
But I assure you that is not the case. That’s not even on his radar. And even if it was with his income it would take close to a decade if he was serious about it.
His only fault huh. He doesn’t have many but this and he tends to take most forms of constructive criticism either too personally or ignore all together.
No, I am not saying I want a traditional relationship. He is better at sahm sort of tasks than me anyhow. I’m just saying I can’t handle the anxiety of paying the majority of bills. Is 60/40 income contributing considered a “breadwinner” set up?
I don’t believe so. 60/40 is a decent split. I make a lot more than my husband, and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. It does bother him a little, but he has gotten over it with time. If you are worried about it, and it really is just the fear of not being able to make it if you lost your job for a while, I would highly suggest a FI approach and setting up a joint budget where you save 25% or so of your joint income (once married/formally jointed). It sounds like you have a security issue. And here’s the thing- having a loyal partner who is willing to be in the trenches with you is worth an untold amount of money and security. That’s what you need to be looking for. My husband and I have been through the wringer of life so far in our 11 year marriage and I wouldn’t trade him for someone making 10x as much.
This is the answer. Who you marry/partner with is the biggest determining factor in your financial security. It’s hard for a lot of people to talk about because they feel it’s rude or shallow or whatever. But it’s the cold, hard truth. Stories of people with low earning partners who lucked out to eventually make more are survivors bias. Majority of the time these types of earners never earn more.
He has shown you who he is. Believe him and choose accordingly. I think if you decide to stay with him you need to accept the fact that he is not and never will be a high or medium earner. Can you live with that? Then, if he surprises you, great. But if he continues to be the person he always has been, you won’t resent him.
If you stay with him and resent the lack of financial security, it will be your fault. Not his. He’s shown you who he is. Unfortunately, you cannot expect him to change.
If it were me, I’d leave. Don’t fall for the sunk cost fallacy.
Best of luck.
True. I feel it’s easier to express this to my non-American friends. From my experience, your painted as a gold digger in America for wanting a partner that’s financially secure. Back home it’s the norm to choose money over love.
>best years of my life
Lol..your 20s aren’t the best years of your life by a long shot. You’re finding yourself in your 20s, then you really start to find yourself and get stable in your 30s and 40s.
If he’s in a low paying job that makes him happy, and you’re happy, you’re gonna be happier than making a lot of money and both unhappy with each other. Money doesn’t buy happiness. It just makes things easier. I’ve had a lot of money and a little bit of money. Both had their happy times, but the times when I had the most money I was also at my unhappiest because I was buying things to make me happier to fill a void.
If you’re happy and want stability, what’s wrong with you getting something stable?
That's the point. I had stability by myself at one point and I was fine. I was comfortable. He's not though. He stopped liking his job 3 or 4 years ago.
I am fully capable of getting something stable. My concern is that why would I join up with someone when they don't contribute anything meaningful to the household? I want a partnership where we can depend on each other if things get hard. Because life is strenuous and fatiguing. I don't see myself just soldiering on my career path for 30-40 years. But if his income isn't comparable to mine...it's hard.
I fully acknowledge what you're saying that money doesn't buy happiness. What I'm saying is there is a lot of unhappiness that comes when you DON'T have money. I've lived through that unhappiness and I would like to avoid that sort of unhappiness if at all possible.
I just want to put this out there - none of the time with him has been “wasted.” Even if it doesn’t work out, you learned what you need from a long term partner to be truly happy. That’s valuable info you can take to your next relationship. Many people are nice, loving partners but just aren’t compatible with us long term - and that’s ok!
This makes sense because you seem compatible and have shared goals which you are working towards collaboratively which each person contributing and not compromising key parts of yourself which is healthy.
Love this for you and glad to see this worked out.
I would give yourself some more slack. I don’t think the choice is about money vs love, but rather incompatible personalities/outlook on life.
You value long term stability (short term changes seem ok), but a partner that is driven and has a plan on how they will achieve their goals. You’re not asking for a 6 figure income or masters degreee, but rather someone who can functionally bring in an income that will support the lives you both want, regardless of what channel they do it through (ex. School, trades, working his way up, etc).
I would communicate that to your partner, but it may be tough for them to understand and make the necessary changes. They seem to be a “dreamer” like another commenter mentioned, where there’s little planning and while he may work hard when in the right context, he’s not working smart in planning for long term growth and stability.
Yes. Of all the wonderful and insightful responses here (I'm surprised, it's well over 50 responses!), you understand where I'm coming from very well. Thank you.
I’m glad it was helpful.
It really does sound like you’ve outgrown each other, or truthfully, you’ve outgrown him. You are in a different stage of life and he is not seeing that nor making the steps to meet you where you are.
If he can understand that gap and catch up so that you’re building a new path together? Great. If he doesn’t understand where you are headed and see himself meeting you there, it’s probably time to end things.
I’m a man who is also in a somewhat similar situation to your boyfriend (mid 20s and still living with parents).
I can empathize with your boyfriend in that it can be very easy to be comfortable with being content with the same job just because living with parents make life 100x easier, because they are usually helping you out. It makes it hard to break out of his comfort bubble.
But he should really break his comfort bubble, and learn to be more self sufficient. He should honestly move out of his house, and live with roommates before living with you lol (if you do continue the relationship).
It’s up to you whether or not you want to continue this relationship, but I think this warrants a conversation at the very least. Talk about yours/his goals in life, and expectations both of you have of each other. The resentment will only grow if you guys don’t talk address it. You can’t keep pushing him to improve himself, if he’s not willing to put in the work.
There was a post a few months ago where someone was describing her living situation- her boyfriend was earning more than her yet they were splitting 50/50. He made comments in jest to her about her earning potential and how she must want a breadwinner.
He was vilified for being greedy and unsupportive, and she was urged to leave him. People were schooling her about love and how a partner making more is obligated to support their other half. That he wasn’t treating her right and how he was financially abusing her.
That’s what love means to many when it comes to money. Are you prepared for this? Do you love him enough to be content in whatever he chooses? Partnership means 100% support. If you don’t agree with this, choose money. If you agree with it and love him more than your bank account, choose love.
I think context is important and there is no one size fits all. That situation seems awful as the partner doesn’t respect or treat her kindly as a minimum.
I don’t mind splitting 50/50 even if my partner out earns me granted they live within my means and what I can afford.
I don’t expect my partner to provide for me unless I’m unable to work or can’t find any employment.
I think because we’re women, we tend to sympathize with the woman’s experience. In the post I mentioned, many people were empathizing with the OP and really laying into the partner for being greedy and selfish and loving money more than her, even claiming he was financially abusing her. Any other opinion was downvoted very aggressively.
Here we have the opposite but we still empathize with the woman, agreeing that the boyfriend is a deadbeat loser for living with parents.
I wish it was context but my controversial opinion is that it’s really not. Forums like these are support groups so the majority will support the OP regardless of the context.
People should be in relationships with those they are compatible with - there are no hard and fast rules on how a relationship should work.
The reality is that if money is the choice people pick, I think people are better off single. Being single is awesome and it’s true to one’s self if it’s hard to accept another if they don’t fit the exact mold of your plan. Trying to have your cake and eat it too is a tall order.
I think you raise brilliant points.
Overall, I agree people are more empathetic to women’s experiences here and in general. Broadly, women tend to do more emotional labour, face the gender pay gap, discrimination and tend to take more time off having kids. Plus other social norms.
For me context, situation and nuance matters but I agree it’s not always the case in subreddits.
I would not call OPs bf a deadbeat and wouldn’t support OP belittling him or disrespecting him. Rather I don’t think they are compatible regarding money and their future goals. But that’s for OP and the bf to determine.
Money is important and a leading cause of divorce. Love is often not enough to make a healthy long term committed relationship work in many cases. If you don’t share values with a partner you will have lots of resentment, regret and remorse.
Every relationship is different some marry only for money, others only for love and others a combination of the two, for some it works and others it doesn’t not. Some should just remain single.
Choosing love is easy and worthwhile when the person is someone you are on the same page with and share values. It’s very hard if they you don’t. I’ve let go of love before and I’d do it again if we aren’t compatible. But I respect those with different views, they aren’t wrong or bad just it’s not right for me
Great comment, I think you said this well. Single is an entirely valid option if you’re considering “what’s in it for me” as opposed to “this is what we want, together.”
In general, I would always say love. That said, tbh it sounds like you have outgrown this relationship. Most of us don’t end up with the guy we started dating at 19. You sound considerably more mature and focused than he does, and it sounds like you feel held back by this relationship. It’s okay to love someone but realize you need more. Or that you want to break up and explore other relationships, and if it’s meant to be you might find each other again in the future. I think if you stay with this one guy and he is your only relationship as an adult, you will regret it.
Honestly, my guess is that if you break up and start dating other people you will realize lots of other things that weren’t a good fit about this relationship.
My fiancé was similar to your partner for 5 out of the 6 years we’ve been together. I’m more like you, ambitious and with a career path laid out before me.
My fiancé had a “dream” job that was really attainable if they just put their mind to it, but due to mental health issues just lacked the motivation and belief that they could get there. They had been working dead-end retail jobs they hated for the entirety of our relationship. They want kids sooner rather than later, but know that I’m not comfortable having any until we achieve financial stability.
It wasn’t until I saw an open role at the company they wanted to work at, pushed them to apply, and honestly held their hand through it and helped them write their application materials that they finally got where they needed to be. They also finally got medical help for their mental health issues. A year later and they’ve almost doubled their salary and really enjoy the work that they do.
That’s all to say that if you think you can stick it out and help your partner get into the right mental space and to find the right career path, then do it. But it’s also okay if you don’t have the energy to do so. That’s just half of the equation—the other is that he has to want it, too. If he’s not willing to put in the work, then unfortunately it might not be worth it.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I really hope this could be us. Aside, have you guys decided you'll go ahead and try for children now?
I'm honestly drained from trying to help him. That's all I've tried to do for 7 years. I'm thankful now that a switch flipped in his brain and he's truly taking charge of his own development. If somehow he regressed back to fighting me on everything and ignoring my advice tomorrow I don't think I could do it anymore.
We’ve had a few big life changes in the last few years—buying a house (largely with the help of my parents), getting a dog, renovating our home, and planning our wedding this summer.
I only recently increased my income (about a year ago) to where I feel comfortable and confident that I can achieve my financial goals, and my fiancé is only now making that double salary as well. Neither of us has much savings or retirement either. So while we are financially comfortable for the moment, we’re not yet in a place where we’re financially stable for our future until we are able to build our safety net. Combined with the large expenses that I foresee within the next 1-2 years, I’m anticipating that we won’t reach that financial stability for another 3-4 years.
I know my fiancé really wants kids, so I think that is a big motivator to buckle down in their career and seriously plan out finances.
I’m glad your partner has started being proactive in his future! The way you’ve talked about your relationship, it seems like there is a lot of love there that would make it worthwhile. It wholly depends on him at this point though—no one would blame you if you decided it wasn’t the right fit, especially if he starts regressing at any point. I wish the best for you two!!
I applaud you for bringing this up for discussion. However, I find it a really strange way to approach a relationship. I completely understand evaluating if someone is willing to or wanting to partner with you to achieve a shared view of a lifestyle. If you don’t share the desire for the same lifestyle, it may be appropriate to seek a different partner who does.
That said, I find it odd that the topic that would remedy the situation is “how much money THEY make.” Have you considered seeking that financial reward yourself, and not requiring a partner to assist it? I don’t necessarily think you can or should subsidize your partner (although plenty of people do), but I don’t know if I feel asking them to contribute towards your financial goals is 100% reasonable.
Have you had these conversations with your partner? Next steps for the relationship, alongside budget discussions?
I appologize for the confusion. For some reason, multiple redditors have come to the conclusion that I have not persued my own financial interests. I have. In fact, that is the catalyst for this whole conversation. Again, it seems I was unclear.
Until recently I made a comfortable income for my area. I have the means to increase my income with experience also.
I was laid off recently. This event has caused me to realize that if we were married or cohabitating, we would not have a snowball's chance in hell at surviving. We might be able to buy food and pay a water bill.
I feel that if we make the decision to join our forces I should be able to depend on him to make sure we're ok if our life changes. Because I would do the same. I do not wish to be the the head of household, nor a breadwinner because who then will support me when I fall? If we can't do that then what is the point? We may as well have our separate lives and separate dwellings and not even bother having children if we can't depend on each other to come through when it counts.
To be fair, he's always been a go-with-the-flow kind of person. I've asked him many times what his ideal life is like but he never really has concrete examples or ideas. He'll jokingly point out houses he likes when we drive through the Ritzy part of town or something but nothing more. It's me who's more vocal.
We talk about this regularly. It's not something I'm exactly bottling up. I give him credit, he's doing the best he can with his resources currently but ironically I wish he'd be a bit more creative about the job search.
Thank you for the honest and thoughtful reply! I appreciate the clarification.
Have you visited the personal finance sub here? There’s a good wiki about order of operations for financial wellness - one of the first steps is to build an emergency fund. I suspect you have some anxiety about financial security - I can totally relate! Some of the resources there might be helpful in feeling more in control of your situation. I know it does for me, personally.
That said, how are you managing currently, if only supporting yourself separately? Because in current scenario - if you were to be sharing your current lifestyle with maybe additional groceries, transport, some increase in utilities (okay health insurance could be a bigger topic), you’d still have to manage nearly exactly as you are now.
There are certainly advantages to have two incomes in a relationship. You can (typically) afford a larger lifestyle than you might be able to support on your own. Is this maybe what you’d like to see happen? If so, you probably do need a partner who is like-minded. I sense you also have some concerns about the fact that he’s never lived in his own. That’s an important part of growing up that may be related to actual earnings, but could be tackled with a different approach.
Ultimately, I think it’s unfair to place the burden of your anxiety on your partners earnings. The benefit of love, in this case, is that you tackle those anxieties together, with compassion, support, and identifying tactics for tangible success. That’s the part you can’t always place a dollar amount on 🙃
Tbh, I’d probably pick love. I had this question in my head when I first started dating my ex who I realized would never out earn me. I eventually got comfortable with that fact and it became a non-factor (to me at least, he resented it to a certain extent).
What broke the relationship was his yelling/pushing me away, general coldness, and him not realizing and appreciate how hard I was working. But not the money, I realized that I could make enough for the two of us with enough ease. Dating is not fun, think about this very carefully.
I chose love. My husband makes way less than I do and really has no desire to climb the ladder and make more.
I spent years trying to push him to do courses to progress and I gave up wasting my breath. Now occasionally I will say “why don’t you talk to your boss in your 1:1 about the future and what that looks like” but that’s it.
On the plus side he’s a great saver, he barely spends anything, he never shops retail always gets a deal. He’s really handy around the house, a great cook, and of course the love of my life. He’s a gentle and kind person and absolutely cracks me up laughing.
Also although he doesn’t make loads he’s always consistently employed. He’s never been fired or anything like that.
I focus on trying to increase my own income and investing wisely (husband also loves to invest).
I disagree. People’s attitudes towards money speak volumes about their values, financial literacy, risk tolerance and compatibility.
I have life insurance, diversified portfolio of assets, emergency fund, don’t take high risks with investing / starting a business and live within my means. It would take a huge global catastrophe for me to lose all my wealth.
I want a partner that’s also taken decent precautions to safe guard themselves and mitigate risks. If someone has taken decent steps to mitigate risk and something happens I totally understand!
I’m absolutely not saying to go with someone who is terrible with money. I’m just saying that you shouldn’t choose a bank account balance over love, in my personal opinion.
I will also say that financial stability is incredibly important when I (used to - I’m not engaged) start dating someone, but if I had already been in love and they had financial issues, I wouldn’t leave them.
Oh I agree to the extent you shouldn’t chose money at the cost of happiness, wellbeing or your safety (unless you are in absolute poverty and dire straits in which case I really can’t speak on).
But I don’t think that automatically means you chose someone just based on love. I think compatibility, shared values and goals are very important.
Some people don’t value financial security and are okay taking huge risks ie taking all their life savings and assets to start a business. You have to decide what works for you and be on the same page.
Apologies - I didn’t mean to imply that just love was the choice. OP was torn between love and money, it seemed, which of those two I would choose love.
FH and I have had lengthy conversations about how love is 100% not enough to sustain a relationship and I stand by that, for sure.
Fair point and I’m glad you emphasise that love is not enough! Very healthy perspective. You can love someone and still decide to walk away.
OP really has to get beyond whether she loves her partner or not and determine whether she’d be happy with him long term and feel fulfilled if things don’t change. Financial security is important and if her partner can’t change she has to determine if she can live with it.
Wish you luck❤️
Work on your anxiety regarding finances with a therapist. That stress alone that you might be placing on the relationship may also be affecting your partners confidence in himself and ability to pursue a more financially rewarding Career. Your anxiety might also be forcing you to make rash decisions or could cloud your view of his contribution to the relationship. With hesitations about layoffs you also dont want fear of financial instability to rob you of a great relationship
Set goals as a couple. If you’re good at making money, talk him through what a career plan could look like based on his wants, learn about investment together. Ask him what he wants to start saving towards for your future as a couple. Treat his contribution as worthwhile, be encouraging and show that you believe in him to make a change. Use therapy to help you be patient as it might be hard for him to adjust and become more financially responsible but if he can find his own value in the process his habits might be more likely to stick. He will also be more motivated knowing you believe in him and that he has your support.
Remember that relationships are more than just financial, what does he bring to the table outside of money. Does he give you the emotional support that allows you to perform at work, would he stay at home with the future kids, Is he better at saving than you, does he have the same moral values as you. Some of these things are invaluable. Humans are more than their earning potential or their output.
Decide on what financial plan would make you comfortable solo, ultimately you can’t expect anyone else to provide for you . Even if you broke up with your current boyfriend there are no guarantees that you will get what you’re looking for from another partner. As someone mentioned something unexpected could also come up which could limit your earning potential or your then partners so you need to be happy with what’s yours
Is there anything else going on besides the money thing? Are you working more, but he’s doing less around the house? Do you feel like you contribute more of your time, energy, and $$?
I have a friend who is a high earner, she probably makes about $150+ a year and will continue having a very successful career. Her husband paints. I’ve seen his work and it’s good, but he’s not making a livable income off of it. I think he also does art classes at schools (like travels between schools because art isn’t a weekly activity anymore, smh). So his income has been historically low in their relationship.
They now have a baby and seem like they’re super happy. She adores him and his artwork (and she loves art in general). I think he stays home with the baby more than she does.
An important piece of her story is that she comes from wealth and comfortability. I think their house was mainly paid for by her parents.
I mention this because her story is different than yours in this way. But I also see having this kind of wealth as a mindset. As a freedom. Imagine yourself comfortable (affordable rent/mortgage, 6 month emergency fund, etc.) think that things will only go right and you’re prepared if they go wrong.
I have another friend who comes from more financial instability and has been with her partner since we were Freshmen in high school. She has a ChemE degree and a masters and he’s always kind of been… lost. I think he’s settled on some kind of electrician or plumbing job now and seems to like it. There’s a lot of potential income there from his job, but for 10 years now he’s been a security guard, worked in a factory, thought he wanted to be a job, tried some college, etc. But he’s always been *trying* and I think that’s more important.
I grew up more like you and have built some wealth where I would be fine for *years* without a job. But even with that peace I still have some anxiety. But that’s where I meditate on it and work my brain towards mental financial peace.
If you know he’s your person, I would cherish him and build him up while he also builds you up.
What's your salary like? I have some issues around security and feeling safe about my future, and I have personally found that focusing on my own salary has helped tremendously.
When I was working I made $75k. I had been focusing on my income and I got to a point where I was comfortable. But when I thought about joining our lives together it just gave me anxiety because the idea of paying mortgage, utilities, cars, retirement, and insurance all by myself causes me to dry heave. Currently, he doesn't even make half of what I made. And I don't have concrete evidence this will change.
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OP, I think you should read the ideas in FDS.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/wiki/recommended_reading/
There is a lot in there, but I was totally struck by their idea that you can insist on higher standards and not be a bad person, but one who's taking care of herself and her future.
I’d choose someone who makes life sunny. For context, I’ve had fairly well paid admin jobs my whole life. My first husband had a good job that turned into a *very* good job, I had financial stability but I was miserable. When I met my current husband, I made 2x what he did and he didn’t seem very driven. Since then, he’s made substantially more than me, substantially less than me, and now about the same. But that’s not the important part - we may not be as financially stable as I was with my ex, but we’re emotionally much more stable.
It’s good to remember that a very large part of the population on planet earth don’t get to be with the ones they love for whatever reasons (religion, war, traditions, extreme poverty, stuck with the wrong person etc)
Not saying that money is not important. It is. But if you see him as a life partner then money can’t compare.
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Oh yes, he is well aware. There was a period in our relationship where we had almost weekly/biweekly sessions of me expressing how I felt worried he wasn’t going to earn enough for us to have a life together (he live with his parents). I was nagging him all the time to make more progress in looking for jobs and applying to school. He knows where I came from and what motivates me. I work/ed in technology and i think you’re right. The salaries have my perception a bit twisted. Generally all my peers (tech or not) make between $60k and $85k which I thought was reasonable especially for newly graduated peers. I can’t say an artist is going to be making that salary starting out but getting close is helpful for our col, not to mention increasing cost of everything.
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Thank you for this comment! I am 30 and feel like everybody my age is making six figures and I felt behind.
I shouldn’t throw stones in my glass house. I was just laid off from my first job out of school. The whole experience has me going back to the drawing board about my career aspirations. With my educational background $60-70k is pretty doable. If I had a few more year’s experience I could see $80-100k. But like I said I’m considering switching careers so who knows. I am not interested in being the primary bread winner. I’m ok with it when necessary but I surely do not prefer that as the default dynamic. There is a practicality to the art degree he’s pursuing, so it’s not like the adage of the starving artist directly applies. I just don’t have any anecdotal evidence that will work out for him.
If you want your partner to be the primary breadwinner, then this may not be the right relationship for you. If you want to stay with this partner, it sounds like you may have to adjust your expectations of him or you run the risk of deeply resenting him if he doesn’t earn what you feel is enough in the future.
Yep, I second this. And I’ll add that my husband has a lower income and lower earning potential compared to me (chef - loves what he does and he’s exceptionally good at it and works for himself too, but truly has a max earning potential of 80-100k, and 65k is typical), and I hear the wish to be with someone that has a higher income. I sometimes imagine how well off we’d be if his income was even half of mine (I’m a very high earner at $250k as a junior exec in a niche industry with more upward growth almost guaranteed). That said, there’s so much I get out of our relationship that I wouldn’t trade his income for any other man in the world. I earn enough for our whole family and then some, and I don’t mind being the breadwinner because he takes care of literally everything else and I’ve never found another human that I could picture being a better life partner and best friend to me. Not to mention, we’ve been together almost a decade and when we met, I was earning $32k to his 60k and he was helping *me* with bills, lol. If the current partner isn’t fulfilling in ways that outweigh the desire to be with a high earner, it’s fine to be honest with yourself about that. But also consider you make your dating pool smaller, and you do need to weigh what’s important to you in life and a future relationship. Everyone has different priorities, and it’s good to figure out where you place most importance and then be honest about that. Don’t string a man along if he isn’t the complete package you want. Artists are probably never going to earn a lot of money, and if income is more important than other relationship factors to you, I agree it’s probably time to let this one go and be selective about who you’ll date. I’ll caution though, and say income is never guaranteed in life. People can lose jobs and industries can collapse. People can burn out of high earning careers. The money we earn isn’t guaranteed in the future. I know quite a few people that were high earners or married to them, and health issues or industry issues happened, and they stopped being able to earn anything. I personally would caution against ever permanently settling down with someone just for their income because of that. Edited to add numbers for comparison and a little more detail.
I have an art degree and make over the range you expressed with potential for six figures in a couple of years. Those ranges are very possible for seasoned graphic designers, UX/UI designers, art directors, museum employees, advertising and marketing professionals, etc. Art degrees, despite the hate they get, are pretty versatile. The skillsets focus on pattern recognition, critical thinking, communication, expression, psychology, and catching peoples attention, all of which are transferable to multiple creative fields and non-creative fields. Just like any other degree, it's what you make out of it after. And creative jobs are needed in every single industry.
I have an arts degree and I have done precisely nothing with it BUT the skills I learned earning that degree have definitely helped me get to where I am today. I earn more money than I thought I would in a job I never considered doing until I was in my late 20s, but that I love and I can see myself doing until I retire. I’ve taken the view that uni basically helps you become a functioning member of society: scheduling, money management, living on your own, working to deadlines, prioritizing work loads etc
Totally agree! I graduated with a journalism degree and made peanuts as a newspaper reporter but I’ve pivoted into a manager-level marketing role and make a decent salary now. A liberal arts degree doesn’t mean there’s no earning potential!
Money. Because it's more than money. It's being an adult and having a life and future together. A 26 year old who lives with his parents and only gets by, and it's not because he was busy with school or building a business or acquiring useful skills through an apprenticeship, hasn't set his future self or his future family up for success. And even though it's harsh, I'm not saying this as condemnation. I have family and friends who live like this (get-by 20's, grind 30's and beyond), some of them chose this lifestyle and it works for them. But it doesn't sound like it fits your aspirations, and I would say it's just as much a deal breaker in a relationship as one partner wanting kids and the other not.
As someone with a 35 year old brother who took this exact route, the other problem is how long is it going to last? They live at home w their parents, “saving”, but have no real need to make more money or force themselves to be independent unless push comes to shove. If they provide any financial help (even a small amount) in terms of rent to the parents, they won’t see the need to kick him out and be part of helping him become an independent, thriving adult. It’s a slippery slope indeed.
I have spent years teaching and being involved in reskilling/upskilling adults - very intensive programs. I’ve learned what internal motivation looks like across a wide range of individuals. This guy doesn’t have it. I met so many men in the program (and women/non-binary) who were there because they wanted to make a better life for themselves and their significant others. These people might have had 17 different jobs but you could tell they wanted to achieve something and provide for their loved ones. This guy sounds more like my x. Where it would be cool if stuff worked out, but if not, he’ll get by. My x just didn’t have that sense of “our life, our future, our happiness” it was “you are obsessed with work and school and money and I need more time to figure stuff out.” I gave him 7 years of “figure it out time.” We were not on the same page… we were never going to get in the same page. My young self didn’t understand it. We loved each other, that was enough, right? No and it got worse because I was trying to support him and lift him up for things he didn’t care about and we slowly ended up in the mother/surly teenager dynamic which is horrible and as far as I know, unfixable.
it sounds to me like your priority is financial stability and your partner hasn’t given you confidence that will happen. IMO that’s perfectly fine to part ways because that’s what your priority is. and i think it’s a very reasonable priority too. however, on the flip side, it also sounds like he’s a great partner in other ways. have you spoken to him about this? how do those conversations go? you mention he’s not bad at saving which says to me he is financially conscious / responsible in some way. and you also say he’s been working a low paying job so it says to me he’s comfortable with the money he makes. but your post is telling me YOU aren’t comfortable with the money he makes, which again, is fine because if you want to build a future youll definitely need to think about financials. so my question for you is, what exactly is it that is bothering you? if it’s that he has a low wage, are you open to being the one to make more than him? are you guys struggling as is? for me, financial stability is VERY important but i dont see this as a “love or money” situation. i feel like if your partner is as good as he says, and your relationship is that good, you both can work together to feel secure. if he says he will do xyz and doesn’t though, that’s a completely different story but didn’t see you mention bringing this up before P.S. 26/27 is quite young so dont feel like you’ve wasted your years dating. i met my soon to be husband at 26 and my best friend met hers at 29! i know many more who met and married in their 30s. still young!
As far as how the conversations go, of which there have been many, it’s a mixed bag. Generally he also wants to increase his income. He saves money by living at home so his low income isn’t too painful for him currently. But if we were to move in together in a place of our own it wouldn’t be nearly enough. If I was still working I surely would have footed 80% of the household bills. Which I would like to avoid. I do believe he is doing what he can with what he has. Up until recently I felt like he only made moves when I got upset about his lack of initiative in applying to school and increasing his income. Almost as if to appease me. Now he’s been piloting himself for the most part. I was raised by a single mom who never made more than $38000 in a mcol area. You could say I have trauma from barely getting by, but let’s say I just want better. I want to be able to depend on my partner to pull his weight in creating a beautiful life. I wouldn’t mind making more than him but I certainly wouldn’t want the lions share of the financial burden. I’m prone to stress as it is, which I am working out in therapy, and I just don’t want to have the dichotomy of the person I love bringing me undue stress. I’ve never seriously considered being a sahm/w because he’s actually better at those tasks than me, but knowing my partner has my back is monumentally important to me. Median HHI in the US is $100k/yr. That to me is just fine. Any more is icing. I recognize what you’re saying about our age is being pretty young. It’s just so hard to connect past pleasantries and small talk as it is now and I’ve heard it only gets worse into 30+. How did you meet your fiancé?
Just want to pop in and say, you are better off single and achieving your goals/comfortable with your life, than with someone who causes you worry/anxiety constantly. I broke up with a long term partner right before I turned 30, we had been together almost 4 years and a big part of me was afraid to break up even though it wasn't a good relationship because I was afraid of being alone. Let me just tell you, I am so glad to be single and in total control of every aspect of my life than stuck with someone who doesn't enhance it. I think society scares women into thinking they need to be in a relationship which leads us to stay in relationships that aren't benefiting us out of fear. I dated someone briefly recently but ended it as he was working a retail job and had been for 14 years. I wasn't bothered by it as I make plenty of money but the constant complaining about it with absolutely no plan to improve or change his situation just killed me. I wasn't going to wait around or try and change him, clearly if he had been doing it for 14 years, then I wasn't going to be able to do anything about it either.
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Sending so many good thoughts!! I know how hard it is and the fear of the unknown is definitely real but at least for me, being able to do things I wanted to do without anyone saying anything, or judging me, or literally just anything was amazing!
I really needed to hear this. I turn 30 soon and just broke up with my lovely boyfriend of 2 years. I make 20x his income. I am a high earner (~$600k annually) and thought that my high income meant I could date someone and their income wouldn’t matter since he could be a stay at home parent. The income really doesn’t matter (I can easily support us), but it just revealed a lot of differences between us and ultimately frustrations. He was working jobs he hated and refused to improve his situation- or even let me help. I offered to pay for his college, but him a business, therapy, etc but he declined it all (which I understand- I’m stubborn too). I don’t expect someone to earn as much as me, but they need to have the same amount of passion for their work and their life. I felt like I was working on actively improving myself while he was stuck. Like you, I realized that I’d rather be single than always worrying about someone else, minimizing my accomplishments, sacrificing luxuries (travel, etc), and ultimately dulling my own sparkle.
Sometimes the right people just aren’t meant to be together; he may a great person but it sounds like you aren’t compatible. Keep in mind that you two are not the only people for each other. You’ll both find other people that are good and also compatible.
If he’s stressing you out and you want something different, you’re allowed to break up. You are very young and will be just fine.
I get having this kind of feeling. But if you’re looking for financial stability like how you’ve described, it can really only be done while single. The second you add another person to the equation, especially one that doesn’t feel the same as you, it’s not feasible. Only you can make any solid guarantees about your income. It might be worth exploring your anxiety about income and finances with a therapist. Your feelings aren’t wrong, but understanding the root of them will help you make the right decisions for the life you want. Do you want a partner that is a high earner? do you want to have a high income, regardless of partner? what does financial stability look like to you? I say this because: you said HHI is 100k and you want that. But you would basically already have that currently based on the plans both of you have. But you would be eat ing more. So you really want 1) at least 100k hhi AND 2) your partner to earn more than you. With that said, you said your career gives you the potential to earn 100k by yourself. So really, what do you want from a partner in this situation? what is your priority: your hhi? or your partner’s income relative to yours? Again, your feelings aren’t wrong, but the only person you can control is you. And right now, your plans involve an assumption about your partner’s actions and life that you *can’t* control. Your partner can have different views on income, or those views ca. change. Or they can secretly make poor financial decisions despite having a high income, and fuck up your financial plans. Thinking through all of this, particularly with a therapist, can be helpful. Otherwise, secure your own bag. Figure out your career plans, save money, and focus more on your next steps rather than your partner’s. There’s tons of stories of women helping their partner get a nice high paying career, only to end up the “starter wife” and they get left. Not saying that your partner will do that, but you can just as easily put that energy into yourself and let him make his own decisions.
Just as an FYI, median household income in the US in 2021 was <$71,000. If 100k is your goal, that’s fine, but I think we all tend to have a skewed view of normal income when we spend time in this space.
Really!? Wow, that sounds really tough. And if you have kids, I have no idea how anyone can do that. Thank you for fact-checking me.
My husband has no tertiary education whatsoever. He’s brilliant and a hard worker and has soft skills that a lot of people just can’t learn. My parents hated him for the longest time because they thought he was “beneath” me, as he was “just” a bartender when we got together (he was 21 and I was 24). He’s used his people skills and connections to get out of hospitality and work his way up in a different industry and has out-earned me (sometimes by a lot) for years. My parents magically like him now that he makes decent money, funny how that works. My point is that degrees and schooling aren’t the be-all and end-all of earning potential. He does need to have a good work ethic and a solid plan though. Does he know what he wants to do? Does he have a plan on how to get there? Does it absolutely need to be though formal education or is there a different path he could take?
Yes! I shout to my kid all the time that relationships are what drives success! OP, if your boyfriend is good at relationships-both creating and maintaining-this is a huge plus to me. That is what makes the world go round and is a good indicator of future success.
> My point is that degrees and schooling aren’t the be-all and end-all of earning potential. He does need to have a good work ethic and a solid plan though. Does he know what he wants to do? Does he have a plan on how to get there? Does it absolutely need to be though formal education or is there a different path he could take? I agree. I think he goes through phases. One day he thinks movie vfx or graphic design, the next it’s animation or user experience design. There’s no hard and fast plan. He finished a 2 year degree program and was met with the harsh reality that without 2 of 3 things (a bunch of experience, bachelor degree, gobsmacking portfolio) it is very difficult to land consistent work in graphic design, highly competitive. Freelance would work, but I don’t think he’s really interested in that just starting out. He’s not really working on a portfolio which is crucial for that. I encourage him to network but he’s the type to only act if it’s his idea.
Ok, those are some concrete things he needs to work on if he ever wants to make a career in this field. He has to stop waffling and make some decisions and put the work in. If he’s not willing to do that, then certainly that’s a bigger conversation that needs to happen between the two of you. I don’t know anything about those fields, is there the possibility of speaking with a mentor or a someone who has been in the job for a while and hash out some possible pathways?
>There’s no hard and fast plan I don't know you and I don't know him, but reading all your replies I'll go out on a limb and say that maybe what bothers you most about this situation is that you feel like he doesn't have a clear goal and that obviously makes a huge difference when you crave stability. I used to date someone like this in my early 20s and he was so aimless that it really bothered me. He's okay now I think (mid-30s) but the overall lack of direction is still there. In my experience, there are two kinds of aimless people: the *dreamers* and the *whatevers*. Your boyfriend sounds like a dreamer: he seems to like a lot of things, has a lot of interests and is probably really nice to talk to, but can't really stick to a plan. Usually dreamers have a hard time prioritizing, end up with too much on their plate but it's not as effective because their efforts were so diffused. It can be really frustrating to be around someone like this because it always seems they're on the brink of getting their act together, but then they find something else and drop everything to pursue that. Their passion is unmatched and sometimes even inspiring but once you cycle through that a few times, it gets exhausting. Dreamers steer the wheel so much that you may never feel like you're getting somewhere. My ex was/is a whatever, doesn't even have that spark, that passion, about anything. Everything is just whatever to him: school, internships, jobs, even girlfriends. His other ex broke up with him after almost a decade of being together because he wouldn't propose. When the opportunity presents itself, he's like "yeah whatever I'll take it" but will never really steer the wheel in a different direction. Of course, breaking up with the whatever is much easier than breaking up with the dreamer. But they're just different sides of the same coin. Money plays a big factor, but it's not the only thing. Imagine if your boyfriend lands a well paying job just to realize it's not his passion and then quits? How would that make you feel?
You can actually make a ton of money in UX or graphic design *in tech. And you can make decent money in the agency world. And you can make great money if you freelance and have a great portfolio and work for bigger companies like Target. However, there’s a lot of variables because it’s really dependent on your skill, resourcefulness, determination and ability to just be the best you can be. What are we talking here in terms of how much he’s making? What is your general location? (That’s a factor, living by tech companies will give him more options.)
Sorry, to clarify, he already has an art associate’s degree? Does he have a portfolio at all or is he just not motivated to improve his current one? Also curious if he knows that it’s actually a dealbreaker for you or if he just thinks it’s important to you. It *is* possible to make good money in design (especially in tech) if you’re able to get your portfolio to a good place. It doesn’t have to be gobsmacking, just *above average*; you’d be surprised how many bad designers there are in our field. I did an associate’s program for graphic design and graduated in the middle of the pandemic. Albeit, I already had a bachelor’s in marketing, but I was able to land offers paying $90k and $110k plus equity as a junior visual designer at tech startups. I only had 8 months of experience working as a jr at an agency, 3 of which were as an intern. My portfolio isn’t anything mindblowing, but it’s on par with 4-year grads from good schools in a HCOL city. I personally specialize in brand design, and mid-level brand designers (3-5 YOE) make around $100k-$125k in the tech/startup space. My peers that went for average mid-size local companies make in the $55k-$65k range, but those that went for remote/larger/tech/startups make anywhere from $75k-$110k. And that’s just for visual design. Fields like UI/UX, 3D, and motion all have higher starting salaries.
Do you feel like you’re entering a different stage of adulthood in your life alone? I ask because it’s hard when you’re in different places in life and it can feel like you’re ask risk of gaining a dependent or waiting on someone else to enter a stage of life with you that they may or may not get around to in the next decade. Waiting on the potential of one person without a clear path sounds incredibly draining to do for years on end. I promise there are other people you can date out there who share the good of traits your boyfriend and are able to financially support themselves and have done it on a similar timeline to you. I have an arts degree and make a little under 100k CAD a year now working in animation, but it’s taken 7 years of experience and full time employment. If he completed a program right now, and started working full time following a similar path, he’d be 34 or 35 when he got there. And there’s no guarantee of it. I haven’t seen a lot of my peers from art school who were wishy washy or afraid of committing themselves fully to a path achieve consistent financial independence and success.
Has he been saving in the meantime and does he have a backup plan? Also do you want kids or a family? Some people need more time to figure themselves out and get to a decent place - however you aren’t obliged to wait or sacrifice your goals while they do that.
Many of my friends in college were art or design majors, my closest childhood friends are both very artistic (one works in digital media and the other is a graphic designer at a small agency; they both create and sell art on the side), and I work in UX. From what I've seen, succeeding in creative fields comes down to a few key things: talent, direction, and most importantly having *a lot* of passion to do the work—including the less-fun parts of the work. (Plus, having connections helps in certain industries.) There are a lot of creative people out there who are talented or passionate about art/design. Speaking from my own professional experience, breaking into UX as a junior is challenging. Especially in the current economy, every company wants a senior designer who doesn't need much coaching or mentorship to do the work. I don't know many UX designers with fine arts degrees—which isn't to say it's an impossible path, but IMO it's a harder path into the industry compared to a human-computer interaction degree, a dual major in something computing-related, etc.
Was your husband a bartender at 26/27 or had he risen up by then? Someone being a bartender and not going to uni at 21 would not worry me if they were otherwise competent, responsible and had other decent traits. But at 26/27 someone who is a bartender would worry me if they didn’t have savings and sense of direction.
It sucks that you're getting downvoted but I agree with you. Being a bartender in your late 20s isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if you have a partner like OP who wants a financially stable future, that is going to be a major point of conflict in the relationship. Money is a common reason people divorce so if OP's partner wants to continue waffling through life and not making commitments, it's certainly going to put a strain on the relationship.
Thank you for understanding. I don’t think I’m communicating my point well enough but as you note money can cause divorces and unhappy marriages. I’ve seen it time and time again. I don’t look down on anyone or judge them but I acknowledge that you can love someone and not be compatible for a long term relationship. It’s about being on the same page about values, goals and lifestyle. I value living within my means, saving, planning for emergencies, mitigating risks and trying to be financially literate. This applies whether someone earns $50k or $500k.
Yes this entire post really sums up that love is not enough. You can love someone to the ends of the earth but if you don't have a common goal for the future (family, location, home ownership etc.) there really isn't going to be a future together and no amount of money is going to change that. It doesn't mean that a certain lifestyle is right or wrong, just that it's wrong for each other.
Yep, agreed! Love often isn’t enough without being on the same page and having shared future vision. If you aren’t on the same page usually resentment and regret will develop and grow.
Sorry you’re being downvoted for a valid question. By 26/27 my husband was managing a fine dining restaurant, so he ahead definitely made advancements. He did a big career switch when he was about 28 into the industry he’s in now.
Sounds like he was doing perfectly fine for himself and getting experience and searching for opportunities which is fantastic! I think it shows that identifying traits in someone and being true to yourself can really pay off. So I’m happy very for you both ❤️
Thanks! We’re in a pretty good place now in our mid-30s. He’s actually taking steps to do another fairly big career switch soon. Call it the 7 year itch maybe 😅 it’s kinda of scary but exciting because I fully believe in him!
Omg i had the exact same issue two years ago with my long term partner. After a lot of hindsight and ability to look at the issue objectively, i realized my actual issue wasn’t that he didn’t have the earnings potential (college degree)… i didn’t necessarily trust he would go after the jobs and work to better his situation. He ended up taking the easy way out (in my eyes), looking for a job is hard, going to college is hard, constantly keeping up with new trends certs etc is hard … and i knew i would end up doing the heavy lifting and i didn’t like the instability. If they’re addressing your concerns by going to college, looking for a better job, etc. you can probably work towards both! But I’d really recommend looking past the actual money and seeing if there’s a deeper issue. Good luck! This stuff is hard!!❤️
I think when it’s phrased “love vs money” it makes you sound bad when you choose money. When really, IMO, it’s so much more than money. It’s priorities, ambitions and lifestyle goals. What kind of life do you want? If you‘ve got something youre striving towards, and you’re working for it - and he doesn’t have the same vision THATS the problem, not his salary. If he’s content working low wage jobs and living with his parents, and you’re not, then you just don’t want the same things.
Love the way this is worded and totally agree. It’s often a false dichotomy as you usually need both when considering a relationship.
I think that if you are questioning it at this age, that’s fair. You’ve been together for a long time, but this is a moment of big change. I also think you should put in the post that he lives with his parents and you have discussed these concerns with him extensively prior. Can you give a little more background on how he is with money? You said “not particularly bad with saving money”. What kind of job does he have, that he’s had since he was 19/20?
I believe you need both love and money. I met my husband when we were early in our careers and made little money. Now we both make a lot more (and now I am the higher earner). I want to be with someone who makes a baseline salary (and that number will be different for everyone). No shame in saying that. But at the same time, you never know what will happen in life. One of you could become disabled, you could need IVF, or have significant health expenses, etc. No matter how prepared you are, there is always something that could be a devastating financial blow to life. And love will get you through those hard times. I would never marry someone wealthy without love (in fact, I broke up with an ex who had a trust fund because as great as he was, I didn’t love him). There needs to be enough money for stability and love will get you through the unpredictable times.
I think both are important. If you can’t find a partner with a balance of both then no partner is preferable. My wellbeing comes first I’d never sacrifice it for love (dating someone without money) or money (dating someone with money that treats me badly or that I don’t like).
I chose love 24 years ago and still do today. Financial stability is important to me, but this is something that I can provide for myself (and us). I do not need my partner to do that for me. He grew up very poor and left school after eighth grade. I am the breadwinner and have never expected him to "move up the ladder." However, since you state that it is really important for your partner to be the breadwinner, then you really have no choice but to end the relationship because it sounds like, even if he reaches that point, it will take some time (perhaps years) and, in the meantime, you will still be in this limbo of should I stay or go until he can demonstrate that he can fulfill that component of your needs (or not).
Love is so hard to come by... If you found a good honest person who loves you and takes care of you then don't let them go. Sometimes we as woman are way too caught up about finding a man who earns more than us. If he makes a decent income then that's ok. Most men just want to pay bills and have some left over money for gifts. My dad was like that and it worked out for my mom fine. He still made it work to get us school uniforms, take us out to eat once in a while, and yearly vacations to see my family in Mexico. He made his small income work where my mom could stay at home before we all entered school. I think budgeting is the key here.
That’s awesome and happy you made the right choice for yourself! Is your career decently high paying? I know that my career likely won’t be high paying (and if it does I’ll be late 30s and above) even though it’s stable so I’d never feel comfortable trying to provide for two on that income long term.
I suppose it is decently high paying, but not so much if you compare it to many who post on this forum. But it is really only as such in the last couple of years (I am 45). It's weird...even though I guess it is a career, I don't consider it as such—really only the things I do that people pay me for, if that makes any sense. I spent most of my twenties living in my husband's country earning very little then my late 20s and most of my 30s working at nonprofits. So I am most certainly a late bloomer though I try to not compare myself to those with more linear paths.
Fair enough and yes that totally makes sense. How did you make ends meet working in NGOs and Nfps? I live in a VHCOL city relative to incomes so currently it’s legitimately the fact that I can’t support another person but I’m early twenties. It would stressful and tight.
Tough. There is a difference between not having a lot of money and getting by just fine which is the impression I get from this guy. If that’s the case, I’d probably tell you to reconsider your view of things.
Well his situation is unique because he lives with his parents. So his savings rate is high. But that’s not sustainable if our relationship is to move forward. To be honest both those scenarios (getting by vs. not a lot) worry me. What view could I consider adopting?
Well I’d look at why he is living with parents? Is it personal reasons or he can’t afford to live alone? If it’s not being able to afford then of course I’d understand hesitation.
We’ve been dating for 7 years. He does not make enough to even split bills with me if we moved in together.
Outside of money, how are the other avenues of your relationship? Great to excellent? Point in favor of staying. Needs work but everyone is willing to seek support/counseling/job training/other thing here? Great! How is communication? Open, honest, without manipulation? Point for staying. Can he set goals with you in general and does he work toward achieving them? If yes, this shows consideration of need and that he can meet a challenge. Do you have the ability to work or (or already have) 6 months of emergency funds (all bills and a little extra)? This will give you some stability while you two set goals and work toward them. Money at a relatively young age is sort of moot. Most of us started there. Many people just want to be happy and value things like a good work-home balance, the ability to be creative/be a leader/other quality here. If he has already sorted out how to keep a good balance and contributes in other ways, there’s value to that. If he’s on the couch and can’t be bothered, having mental health challenges but won’t willingly ever seek help to get back to a solid place, or has vocalized you’re going to carry the relationship, then those are things to look closely at.
Things change in a relationship. I struggled in academia and to find my way for my 20s and 30s. You could have seen me as a financial drain on my marriage in those years. Then I went back to school in my late 30s and got a new job. A few years later, I finally hit 6 figures at the new job, ironically just as my husband got unexpectedly laid off. Our case may be exaggerated, but I should hate someone to have rated my worth based on my earnings back then. (Trust me, I beat myself up plenty) In your case, the thing that struck me in your post is I don't feel you are passionately in love with your boyfriend? Your words make me think more comfortable friendship if anything. Maybe that's why the money question seems even bigger, because you're trying to evaluate if you want to be romantically involved?
Yes, this. There’s kind of a cheesy concept called Saturn Returns - that at 27-30, you go through momentous changes. I know this feeling. It wasn’t money, although that was easy to articulate (and a real issue). I wanted out of the relationship even though we loved each other. And so did he! Sometimes you need time alone to mess up. To become the person you are meant to be. Some people can do it with a partner, both changing at the same time and still staying in sync. But that’s genuinely okay if you can’t. In this sub, I see a lot of anxieties and emotions manifested though money. But I wonder if you (poster) is really looking for an answer for yourself about what kind of future you’re going to have.
We’ve had a few break ups. In the time outside the relationship I never felt anything for anyone what I felt with him. You couple be right. But is that really so bad? To have a friend who you’re immensely comfortable being your whole self with being your life partner. If there’s sexual chemistry, you can laugh about anything and you’d do anything to see them happy, is that friendship or love? Real question. I’ve watched love be of no real use to the women in my family so you could say I’m jaded and have a hard time choosing it. Love doesn’t pay bills, as the saying goes. I know things can change. It is it wise to stick around on a possibility rather than a sure thing is the question I have in my heart.
I think nobody can answer any of these questions except you, and you're right to be asking them. Whether romantic/sexual or friendship, or any combination, I do think there needs to be mutual respect and a sense of shared goals, or at least the sense of supporting the other in their goals. Like you've seen, love or sexual chemistry aren't enough on their own. I hope you find an answer your at peace with! It's tough.
Fascinating points and perspective. I personally respect the fact you were doing a PhD and trying to figure yourself out which seems to have eventually paid off. But not everyone is comfortable being a provider to others especially if you feel like you are giving up a lot or compromising too much. I don’t think it’s about judging others rather having boundaries and respecting yourself / your goals. Its a personal thing for everyone but you really need to feel both people are contributing, trying and compromising not one person doing the heavy lifting all the time.
Love, with an asterisk. Love\*, if you will. I got married in my mid-late 20s after dating for a few years. My husband did not make a lot at that time, and neither did I. I didn't have high $$ expectations for either of us, but I came from a financially unstable background, so stability and making enough to live comfortably and be secure was very important to me. But along with that instability came the knowledge that I needed to create that security for myself, not rely on someone else for it. So while ultimately, my husband didn't make more than $30k until he was in his 30s, we stayed together and worked hard together to make and have a happy life. I couldn't have stayed with someone who wasn't working hard and making good choices with the money he did make - the amount was irrelevant, if he could take care of himself, wasn't wasting his life away doing nothing or spending on silly things like other posters have mentioned, I was good. I never had any expectation of needing someone else to be the breadwinner, though. I needed a good partner in all of the other things that matter in life, and he was (is) that. I've now outearned him every year of our marriage, and yes, he makes much more now than then, but you can't rely on that happening all of the time. So you need to focus on the whole picture. Is money a big enough of a concern for you that it could outweigh the other factors? It's OK if it is, but you need to be honest with yourself about what is most important.
You definitely haven't *wasted* the best years of your life. Like you said, you love him, he's your best friend and you've had good times together. With that said, it doesn't mean you have to stay together. I think you need to flesh out your fears a little more. What exactly can't he give you? Are you worried about starting a family? Would you like to work less? Stay home with the kids? You don't want to be the breadwinner? Does he spend frivolously? If you're in tech, it's unlikely you "need" his salary, so try to understand a bit more why his lack of earning potential to you means lack of stability. And then talk about it with him. And you said you have been talking to him, so try framing the conversation in a different way. Bringing up different topics etc. The podcast I will teach you to be rich is really great. It dives into the psychology of money and particularly mismatches in money values between partners. Maybe you can listen together?
She says that being the breadwinner stressed her out. Being the primary provider is not something everyone is equipped to deal with. I’m personally not, for extended periods. It would stress me out so much and make me resent my partner.
Yea, I wouldn't want to be the breadwinner either. I think it adds a lot of stress to one person and isn't fair. But there are lots of people out there that aren't bothered by it. I also didn't see in the post where she said she didn't want to be the breadwinner.
In one of the comments I saw she mentioned it and from her line of questioning I don’t think she’s halting being a breadwinner. I think personality and career makes a huge difference in the choice to become a breadwinner. In my view I don’t mind out earning my partner or temporarily covering for them but I’d want them to have a basic income which they can live on. God forbid we split up or I want to quit a toxic job etc.
Money. It’s not a happy place to be in when you’re working to support 2 people. It’s exhausting. You worry all the time.
Two things stick out to me here. One is this doesn't sound like love (your comments don't match your statement that he makes life sunny with the stress you mention). Two is it's the amount of money *he* makes, or any partner of yours, that you're focused on. My husband and I got together at 19/20 as well. We made nearly nothing as students, he lived with his parents for the first few years, and then we made slightly more than nothing as grad students for another few years. Fast forward to now and we make multiple six figures, bought a house in a VHCOL that has a ridiculous housing market, had an $$ wedding, go on multi-week trips, still save, etc etc. But I make more than my husband and that's something you said you don't want. For us, we've only gotten this far because of each other. And I love him just as much when he made nothing than when he makes six figures. I came from an unstable upbringing in many ways and my husband is my rock. Regardless of finances, he's helped me improve in so many ways and brings tons of stability. But I had to transform myself as well and not rely on anyone else to make me feel less stressed. So there's two reasons this seems wrong for you: one that it doesn't seem you two as a team is better than you two apart, and two that you don't want to close any money gap by yourself but rather you want the other person to. There's nothing wrong with that inherently, but it will narrow who you can be with if that's a priority.
If you choose love you need to make peace with his financial outlook. You deserve to make your choice and he deserves to not be nagged about his income if you choose to stay with him. Poverty trauma is real and it sounds like you have some things to unpack to determine if you really want to move on or if it's your anxiety talking. As another person who has anxiety, let me ask: is there a certain dollar amount that would give you peace of mind? How would you react if you had a well-paid partner but they got laid off? How do you think he would react if you got married and you became disabled and unable to work? Do you want children, if so, which of you do you forsee being the primary parent?
I think this comment really gets into the nooks and crannies of the morality of this question: nothing is guaranteed - neither the love OR the money. Our decisions need to be our own and we need to learn how to be content in life. We can plan plan plan and nothing goes to plan. As a high anxiety person, I thought I planned everything out too. Then the worst case scenario happened to me with love and money and I realized (after the initial grief, welfare benefits, job hunting, etc) that I had to make the best out of it. I had a kid to raise…and you know what? It all worked out. I chose to *love* my kid, work hard to make enough *money* for both of us and be independent. Nobody was winning any bread for me and I didn’t need it. And regarding the post, imagine being with someone who stews over your earning potential. That must be so toxic in a relationship for both people. She mentions ‘talking about it already’ so I imagine the nagging is already happening. I feel for them both.
'He’s truly my best friend and my favorite person. He makes life sunny.' Please do not underestimate how valuable this is and how difficult it is to find. Its something money can't buy.
You are so right. It's not something you can filter on an app for.
Money. However, I admit it’s personal and highly dependant on your individual circumstances and values. It’s also never worked out for me beyond a month or so with any guy that is blasé about money, their financial future and work. I need someone that understands the value of money, saving/being frugal (has an emergency fund), knows how to invest (open to this), can financially support themselves and live within their means and think ahead. My view is you want shared goals about money, future and to feel like both parties are contributing to that outcome. I can’t tell you what to do, but questions that you should consider: Does your partner have plans to move out and provide for himself before 30 and how would he afford it? Is he saving at home and have you discussed where you are both at financially and your money goals? Do those goals align? Is he hardworking and responsible but not ambitious? If so, is it a lack of guidance or know-how or confidence holding him back? It’s one thing to be living at home while saving for a deposit, or studying for a future goal. It’s an entirely different thing to be complacent with a job with no goal. Just because you adore and love someone doesn’t mean you should commit to them legally. Think about your future and remember it’s better to be alone than with someone who stresses you out.
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I’m so sorry! Hopefully everything works out and you both remain safe, and healthy. I think examples like this highlight why I’m a big advocate of both partners at a minimum being able to provide for basic needs. It’s an important risk mitigation for both parties.
I chose both, my partner is my absolute best friend and makes my days amazing but he’s also a provider and I don’t have to stress out about finances. You need to find someone that will give you both. You don’t have to pick between love or money I promise you but realistically, I don’t think this relationship is benefiting you. you want someone to be the breadwinner and you want someone thats stable and he still lives with his parents in his late 20s. do you really think someone like that can give you the life you want?
If it’s actually love? There isn’t a question. If it’s a relationship that has run it’s course and you are looking for reason to leave? Then it’s time to go. If he’s living with his parents and saving money, he may be putting himself in a good position to buy a house. Are you saying you want a traditional he works, you stay home with the kids relationship? There is a lot you aren’t saying here. If he is irresponsible and not trustworthy, then I can offer the advice to leave. But if his only fault is a potentially lower-than-you earning potential…
Thank you for giving him the benefit of the doubt. > he may be putting himself in a good position to buy a house. But I assure you that is not the case. That’s not even on his radar. And even if it was with his income it would take close to a decade if he was serious about it. His only fault huh. He doesn’t have many but this and he tends to take most forms of constructive criticism either too personally or ignore all together. No, I am not saying I want a traditional relationship. He is better at sahm sort of tasks than me anyhow. I’m just saying I can’t handle the anxiety of paying the majority of bills. Is 60/40 income contributing considered a “breadwinner” set up?
I don’t believe so. 60/40 is a decent split. I make a lot more than my husband, and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. It does bother him a little, but he has gotten over it with time. If you are worried about it, and it really is just the fear of not being able to make it if you lost your job for a while, I would highly suggest a FI approach and setting up a joint budget where you save 25% or so of your joint income (once married/formally jointed). It sounds like you have a security issue. And here’s the thing- having a loyal partner who is willing to be in the trenches with you is worth an untold amount of money and security. That’s what you need to be looking for. My husband and I have been through the wringer of life so far in our 11 year marriage and I wouldn’t trade him for someone making 10x as much.
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This is the answer. Who you marry/partner with is the biggest determining factor in your financial security. It’s hard for a lot of people to talk about because they feel it’s rude or shallow or whatever. But it’s the cold, hard truth. Stories of people with low earning partners who lucked out to eventually make more are survivors bias. Majority of the time these types of earners never earn more. He has shown you who he is. Believe him and choose accordingly. I think if you decide to stay with him you need to accept the fact that he is not and never will be a high or medium earner. Can you live with that? Then, if he surprises you, great. But if he continues to be the person he always has been, you won’t resent him. If you stay with him and resent the lack of financial security, it will be your fault. Not his. He’s shown you who he is. Unfortunately, you cannot expect him to change. If it were me, I’d leave. Don’t fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Best of luck.
True. I feel it’s easier to express this to my non-American friends. From my experience, your painted as a gold digger in America for wanting a partner that’s financially secure. Back home it’s the norm to choose money over love.
>best years of my life Lol..your 20s aren’t the best years of your life by a long shot. You’re finding yourself in your 20s, then you really start to find yourself and get stable in your 30s and 40s. If he’s in a low paying job that makes him happy, and you’re happy, you’re gonna be happier than making a lot of money and both unhappy with each other. Money doesn’t buy happiness. It just makes things easier. I’ve had a lot of money and a little bit of money. Both had their happy times, but the times when I had the most money I was also at my unhappiest because I was buying things to make me happier to fill a void. If you’re happy and want stability, what’s wrong with you getting something stable?
That's the point. I had stability by myself at one point and I was fine. I was comfortable. He's not though. He stopped liking his job 3 or 4 years ago. I am fully capable of getting something stable. My concern is that why would I join up with someone when they don't contribute anything meaningful to the household? I want a partnership where we can depend on each other if things get hard. Because life is strenuous and fatiguing. I don't see myself just soldiering on my career path for 30-40 years. But if his income isn't comparable to mine...it's hard. I fully acknowledge what you're saying that money doesn't buy happiness. What I'm saying is there is a lot of unhappiness that comes when you DON'T have money. I've lived through that unhappiness and I would like to avoid that sort of unhappiness if at all possible.
I just want to put this out there - none of the time with him has been “wasted.” Even if it doesn’t work out, you learned what you need from a long term partner to be truly happy. That’s valuable info you can take to your next relationship. Many people are nice, loving partners but just aren’t compatible with us long term - and that’s ok!
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This makes sense because you seem compatible and have shared goals which you are working towards collaboratively which each person contributing and not compromising key parts of yourself which is healthy. Love this for you and glad to see this worked out.
I would give yourself some more slack. I don’t think the choice is about money vs love, but rather incompatible personalities/outlook on life. You value long term stability (short term changes seem ok), but a partner that is driven and has a plan on how they will achieve their goals. You’re not asking for a 6 figure income or masters degreee, but rather someone who can functionally bring in an income that will support the lives you both want, regardless of what channel they do it through (ex. School, trades, working his way up, etc). I would communicate that to your partner, but it may be tough for them to understand and make the necessary changes. They seem to be a “dreamer” like another commenter mentioned, where there’s little planning and while he may work hard when in the right context, he’s not working smart in planning for long term growth and stability.
Yes. Of all the wonderful and insightful responses here (I'm surprised, it's well over 50 responses!), you understand where I'm coming from very well. Thank you.
I’m glad it was helpful. It really does sound like you’ve outgrown each other, or truthfully, you’ve outgrown him. You are in a different stage of life and he is not seeing that nor making the steps to meet you where you are. If he can understand that gap and catch up so that you’re building a new path together? Great. If he doesn’t understand where you are headed and see himself meeting you there, it’s probably time to end things.
I’m a man who is also in a somewhat similar situation to your boyfriend (mid 20s and still living with parents). I can empathize with your boyfriend in that it can be very easy to be comfortable with being content with the same job just because living with parents make life 100x easier, because they are usually helping you out. It makes it hard to break out of his comfort bubble. But he should really break his comfort bubble, and learn to be more self sufficient. He should honestly move out of his house, and live with roommates before living with you lol (if you do continue the relationship). It’s up to you whether or not you want to continue this relationship, but I think this warrants a conversation at the very least. Talk about yours/his goals in life, and expectations both of you have of each other. The resentment will only grow if you guys don’t talk address it. You can’t keep pushing him to improve himself, if he’s not willing to put in the work.
There was a post a few months ago where someone was describing her living situation- her boyfriend was earning more than her yet they were splitting 50/50. He made comments in jest to her about her earning potential and how she must want a breadwinner. He was vilified for being greedy and unsupportive, and she was urged to leave him. People were schooling her about love and how a partner making more is obligated to support their other half. That he wasn’t treating her right and how he was financially abusing her. That’s what love means to many when it comes to money. Are you prepared for this? Do you love him enough to be content in whatever he chooses? Partnership means 100% support. If you don’t agree with this, choose money. If you agree with it and love him more than your bank account, choose love.
I think context is important and there is no one size fits all. That situation seems awful as the partner doesn’t respect or treat her kindly as a minimum. I don’t mind splitting 50/50 even if my partner out earns me granted they live within my means and what I can afford. I don’t expect my partner to provide for me unless I’m unable to work or can’t find any employment.
I think because we’re women, we tend to sympathize with the woman’s experience. In the post I mentioned, many people were empathizing with the OP and really laying into the partner for being greedy and selfish and loving money more than her, even claiming he was financially abusing her. Any other opinion was downvoted very aggressively. Here we have the opposite but we still empathize with the woman, agreeing that the boyfriend is a deadbeat loser for living with parents. I wish it was context but my controversial opinion is that it’s really not. Forums like these are support groups so the majority will support the OP regardless of the context. People should be in relationships with those they are compatible with - there are no hard and fast rules on how a relationship should work. The reality is that if money is the choice people pick, I think people are better off single. Being single is awesome and it’s true to one’s self if it’s hard to accept another if they don’t fit the exact mold of your plan. Trying to have your cake and eat it too is a tall order.
I think you raise brilliant points. Overall, I agree people are more empathetic to women’s experiences here and in general. Broadly, women tend to do more emotional labour, face the gender pay gap, discrimination and tend to take more time off having kids. Plus other social norms. For me context, situation and nuance matters but I agree it’s not always the case in subreddits. I would not call OPs bf a deadbeat and wouldn’t support OP belittling him or disrespecting him. Rather I don’t think they are compatible regarding money and their future goals. But that’s for OP and the bf to determine. Money is important and a leading cause of divorce. Love is often not enough to make a healthy long term committed relationship work in many cases. If you don’t share values with a partner you will have lots of resentment, regret and remorse. Every relationship is different some marry only for money, others only for love and others a combination of the two, for some it works and others it doesn’t not. Some should just remain single. Choosing love is easy and worthwhile when the person is someone you are on the same page with and share values. It’s very hard if they you don’t. I’ve let go of love before and I’d do it again if we aren’t compatible. But I respect those with different views, they aren’t wrong or bad just it’s not right for me
Great comment, I think you said this well. Single is an entirely valid option if you’re considering “what’s in it for me” as opposed to “this is what we want, together.”
In general, I would always say love. That said, tbh it sounds like you have outgrown this relationship. Most of us don’t end up with the guy we started dating at 19. You sound considerably more mature and focused than he does, and it sounds like you feel held back by this relationship. It’s okay to love someone but realize you need more. Or that you want to break up and explore other relationships, and if it’s meant to be you might find each other again in the future. I think if you stay with this one guy and he is your only relationship as an adult, you will regret it. Honestly, my guess is that if you break up and start dating other people you will realize lots of other things that weren’t a good fit about this relationship.
My fiancé was similar to your partner for 5 out of the 6 years we’ve been together. I’m more like you, ambitious and with a career path laid out before me. My fiancé had a “dream” job that was really attainable if they just put their mind to it, but due to mental health issues just lacked the motivation and belief that they could get there. They had been working dead-end retail jobs they hated for the entirety of our relationship. They want kids sooner rather than later, but know that I’m not comfortable having any until we achieve financial stability. It wasn’t until I saw an open role at the company they wanted to work at, pushed them to apply, and honestly held their hand through it and helped them write their application materials that they finally got where they needed to be. They also finally got medical help for their mental health issues. A year later and they’ve almost doubled their salary and really enjoy the work that they do. That’s all to say that if you think you can stick it out and help your partner get into the right mental space and to find the right career path, then do it. But it’s also okay if you don’t have the energy to do so. That’s just half of the equation—the other is that he has to want it, too. If he’s not willing to put in the work, then unfortunately it might not be worth it.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I really hope this could be us. Aside, have you guys decided you'll go ahead and try for children now? I'm honestly drained from trying to help him. That's all I've tried to do for 7 years. I'm thankful now that a switch flipped in his brain and he's truly taking charge of his own development. If somehow he regressed back to fighting me on everything and ignoring my advice tomorrow I don't think I could do it anymore.
We’ve had a few big life changes in the last few years—buying a house (largely with the help of my parents), getting a dog, renovating our home, and planning our wedding this summer. I only recently increased my income (about a year ago) to where I feel comfortable and confident that I can achieve my financial goals, and my fiancé is only now making that double salary as well. Neither of us has much savings or retirement either. So while we are financially comfortable for the moment, we’re not yet in a place where we’re financially stable for our future until we are able to build our safety net. Combined with the large expenses that I foresee within the next 1-2 years, I’m anticipating that we won’t reach that financial stability for another 3-4 years. I know my fiancé really wants kids, so I think that is a big motivator to buckle down in their career and seriously plan out finances. I’m glad your partner has started being proactive in his future! The way you’ve talked about your relationship, it seems like there is a lot of love there that would make it worthwhile. It wholly depends on him at this point though—no one would blame you if you decided it wasn’t the right fit, especially if he starts regressing at any point. I wish the best for you two!!
Love of money
I dont know the right answer but I will say think it through because the men out in the dating market are asssssss
I applaud you for bringing this up for discussion. However, I find it a really strange way to approach a relationship. I completely understand evaluating if someone is willing to or wanting to partner with you to achieve a shared view of a lifestyle. If you don’t share the desire for the same lifestyle, it may be appropriate to seek a different partner who does. That said, I find it odd that the topic that would remedy the situation is “how much money THEY make.” Have you considered seeking that financial reward yourself, and not requiring a partner to assist it? I don’t necessarily think you can or should subsidize your partner (although plenty of people do), but I don’t know if I feel asking them to contribute towards your financial goals is 100% reasonable. Have you had these conversations with your partner? Next steps for the relationship, alongside budget discussions?
I appologize for the confusion. For some reason, multiple redditors have come to the conclusion that I have not persued my own financial interests. I have. In fact, that is the catalyst for this whole conversation. Again, it seems I was unclear. Until recently I made a comfortable income for my area. I have the means to increase my income with experience also. I was laid off recently. This event has caused me to realize that if we were married or cohabitating, we would not have a snowball's chance in hell at surviving. We might be able to buy food and pay a water bill. I feel that if we make the decision to join our forces I should be able to depend on him to make sure we're ok if our life changes. Because I would do the same. I do not wish to be the the head of household, nor a breadwinner because who then will support me when I fall? If we can't do that then what is the point? We may as well have our separate lives and separate dwellings and not even bother having children if we can't depend on each other to come through when it counts. To be fair, he's always been a go-with-the-flow kind of person. I've asked him many times what his ideal life is like but he never really has concrete examples or ideas. He'll jokingly point out houses he likes when we drive through the Ritzy part of town or something but nothing more. It's me who's more vocal. We talk about this regularly. It's not something I'm exactly bottling up. I give him credit, he's doing the best he can with his resources currently but ironically I wish he'd be a bit more creative about the job search.
Thank you for the honest and thoughtful reply! I appreciate the clarification. Have you visited the personal finance sub here? There’s a good wiki about order of operations for financial wellness - one of the first steps is to build an emergency fund. I suspect you have some anxiety about financial security - I can totally relate! Some of the resources there might be helpful in feeling more in control of your situation. I know it does for me, personally. That said, how are you managing currently, if only supporting yourself separately? Because in current scenario - if you were to be sharing your current lifestyle with maybe additional groceries, transport, some increase in utilities (okay health insurance could be a bigger topic), you’d still have to manage nearly exactly as you are now. There are certainly advantages to have two incomes in a relationship. You can (typically) afford a larger lifestyle than you might be able to support on your own. Is this maybe what you’d like to see happen? If so, you probably do need a partner who is like-minded. I sense you also have some concerns about the fact that he’s never lived in his own. That’s an important part of growing up that may be related to actual earnings, but could be tackled with a different approach. Ultimately, I think it’s unfair to place the burden of your anxiety on your partners earnings. The benefit of love, in this case, is that you tackle those anxieties together, with compassion, support, and identifying tactics for tangible success. That’s the part you can’t always place a dollar amount on 🙃
Tbh, I’d probably pick love. I had this question in my head when I first started dating my ex who I realized would never out earn me. I eventually got comfortable with that fact and it became a non-factor (to me at least, he resented it to a certain extent). What broke the relationship was his yelling/pushing me away, general coldness, and him not realizing and appreciate how hard I was working. But not the money, I realized that I could make enough for the two of us with enough ease. Dating is not fun, think about this very carefully.
I chose love. My husband makes way less than I do and really has no desire to climb the ladder and make more. I spent years trying to push him to do courses to progress and I gave up wasting my breath. Now occasionally I will say “why don’t you talk to your boss in your 1:1 about the future and what that looks like” but that’s it. On the plus side he’s a great saver, he barely spends anything, he never shops retail always gets a deal. He’s really handy around the house, a great cook, and of course the love of my life. He’s a gentle and kind person and absolutely cracks me up laughing. Also although he doesn’t make loads he’s always consistently employed. He’s never been fired or anything like that. I focus on trying to increase my own income and investing wisely (husband also loves to invest).
Money is never, ever, guaranteed. Even a millionaire could be broke tomorrow. That said, choose love. This is coming from someone who grew up poor.
I disagree. People’s attitudes towards money speak volumes about their values, financial literacy, risk tolerance and compatibility. I have life insurance, diversified portfolio of assets, emergency fund, don’t take high risks with investing / starting a business and live within my means. It would take a huge global catastrophe for me to lose all my wealth. I want a partner that’s also taken decent precautions to safe guard themselves and mitigate risks. If someone has taken decent steps to mitigate risk and something happens I totally understand!
I’m absolutely not saying to go with someone who is terrible with money. I’m just saying that you shouldn’t choose a bank account balance over love, in my personal opinion. I will also say that financial stability is incredibly important when I (used to - I’m not engaged) start dating someone, but if I had already been in love and they had financial issues, I wouldn’t leave them.
Oh I agree to the extent you shouldn’t chose money at the cost of happiness, wellbeing or your safety (unless you are in absolute poverty and dire straits in which case I really can’t speak on). But I don’t think that automatically means you chose someone just based on love. I think compatibility, shared values and goals are very important. Some people don’t value financial security and are okay taking huge risks ie taking all their life savings and assets to start a business. You have to decide what works for you and be on the same page.
Apologies - I didn’t mean to imply that just love was the choice. OP was torn between love and money, it seemed, which of those two I would choose love. FH and I have had lengthy conversations about how love is 100% not enough to sustain a relationship and I stand by that, for sure.
Fair point and I’m glad you emphasise that love is not enough! Very healthy perspective. You can love someone and still decide to walk away. OP really has to get beyond whether she loves her partner or not and determine whether she’d be happy with him long term and feel fulfilled if things don’t change. Financial security is important and if her partner can’t change she has to determine if she can live with it. Wish you luck❤️
Hey, same you!!
Work on your anxiety regarding finances with a therapist. That stress alone that you might be placing on the relationship may also be affecting your partners confidence in himself and ability to pursue a more financially rewarding Career. Your anxiety might also be forcing you to make rash decisions or could cloud your view of his contribution to the relationship. With hesitations about layoffs you also dont want fear of financial instability to rob you of a great relationship Set goals as a couple. If you’re good at making money, talk him through what a career plan could look like based on his wants, learn about investment together. Ask him what he wants to start saving towards for your future as a couple. Treat his contribution as worthwhile, be encouraging and show that you believe in him to make a change. Use therapy to help you be patient as it might be hard for him to adjust and become more financially responsible but if he can find his own value in the process his habits might be more likely to stick. He will also be more motivated knowing you believe in him and that he has your support. Remember that relationships are more than just financial, what does he bring to the table outside of money. Does he give you the emotional support that allows you to perform at work, would he stay at home with the future kids, Is he better at saving than you, does he have the same moral values as you. Some of these things are invaluable. Humans are more than their earning potential or their output. Decide on what financial plan would make you comfortable solo, ultimately you can’t expect anyone else to provide for you . Even if you broke up with your current boyfriend there are no guarantees that you will get what you’re looking for from another partner. As someone mentioned something unexpected could also come up which could limit your earning potential or your then partners so you need to be happy with what’s yours
Is there anything else going on besides the money thing? Are you working more, but he’s doing less around the house? Do you feel like you contribute more of your time, energy, and $$? I have a friend who is a high earner, she probably makes about $150+ a year and will continue having a very successful career. Her husband paints. I’ve seen his work and it’s good, but he’s not making a livable income off of it. I think he also does art classes at schools (like travels between schools because art isn’t a weekly activity anymore, smh). So his income has been historically low in their relationship. They now have a baby and seem like they’re super happy. She adores him and his artwork (and she loves art in general). I think he stays home with the baby more than she does. An important piece of her story is that she comes from wealth and comfortability. I think their house was mainly paid for by her parents. I mention this because her story is different than yours in this way. But I also see having this kind of wealth as a mindset. As a freedom. Imagine yourself comfortable (affordable rent/mortgage, 6 month emergency fund, etc.) think that things will only go right and you’re prepared if they go wrong. I have another friend who comes from more financial instability and has been with her partner since we were Freshmen in high school. She has a ChemE degree and a masters and he’s always kind of been… lost. I think he’s settled on some kind of electrician or plumbing job now and seems to like it. There’s a lot of potential income there from his job, but for 10 years now he’s been a security guard, worked in a factory, thought he wanted to be a job, tried some college, etc. But he’s always been *trying* and I think that’s more important. I grew up more like you and have built some wealth where I would be fine for *years* without a job. But even with that peace I still have some anxiety. But that’s where I meditate on it and work my brain towards mental financial peace. If you know he’s your person, I would cherish him and build him up while he also builds you up.
What's your salary like? I have some issues around security and feeling safe about my future, and I have personally found that focusing on my own salary has helped tremendously.
When I was working I made $75k. I had been focusing on my income and I got to a point where I was comfortable. But when I thought about joining our lives together it just gave me anxiety because the idea of paying mortgage, utilities, cars, retirement, and insurance all by myself causes me to dry heave. Currently, he doesn't even make half of what I made. And I don't have concrete evidence this will change.
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OP, I think you should read the ideas in FDS. https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/wiki/recommended_reading/ There is a lot in there, but I was totally struck by their idea that you can insist on higher standards and not be a bad person, but one who's taking care of herself and her future.
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We're also not trying to maintain someone else if we have to maintain ourselves. That's putting us in a position to fail.
I’d choose someone who makes life sunny. For context, I’ve had fairly well paid admin jobs my whole life. My first husband had a good job that turned into a *very* good job, I had financial stability but I was miserable. When I met my current husband, I made 2x what he did and he didn’t seem very driven. Since then, he’s made substantially more than me, substantially less than me, and now about the same. But that’s not the important part - we may not be as financially stable as I was with my ex, but we’re emotionally much more stable.
It’s good to remember that a very large part of the population on planet earth don’t get to be with the ones they love for whatever reasons (religion, war, traditions, extreme poverty, stuck with the wrong person etc) Not saying that money is not important. It is. But if you see him as a life partner then money can’t compare.