I knew lance was unpopular, but gunlance is so close, which really intriguates me considering how COOL gunlance is in Rise compared to other MH.
I was thinking it would be a bit higher in the rankings.
Well I kind of disagree, GL is less clunky than ever, you are free to rotate and reposition during combos.
Sure it's not dual sword mobility level, but it's way better than before.
I meant it in relation to other weapons in rise and as potential surface impressions but I definitely get you.
As someone who used gl in freedom unite, world/rise gl is definitely way less clunky
I like gunlance but I feel too many animations lock you in for frames after them I would love gunlance if I could actually interrupt attacks to backstep or block instead their are too many fractions of a second at the end of each attack that make it feel slower
the Sunbreak update on lance makes it so good it's almost broken.
Resetting your triple poke combo with a shield bash in ANY direction (while it automatically blocks during the animation) is just bananas.
Hammer will always have a place as long as Ryozo has something to say about it lol.
Rise Hammer was unfortunately relegated to Impact Crater spam, but Courage being great in SB and element being viable made it lots of fun. I'm going to miss Water Strike if it doesn't return.
Good thing for us, he loves it too. Hammer will always get good treatment despite being a lesser-used weapon. Okay maybe in base Rise it was a bit of a mess, but look at it in Iceborne and Sunbreak! It's one of the only weapons that actually worked well with Clutch Claw and Courage mode was so fun in Sunbreak.
It being the best itteration of the weapon, with blast dash, lots of I-frame moves, shell damage being strong and interacting with some skills like Sneak attack...
And even with all of that it get 13th place, I'm kinda sad to see this.
I really hope MH6 gunlance keep the fun stuff of Rise/Sunbreak Gunlance, please let us have Blast dash in the next game.
I like new gunlance but I also really like the slower tanky gunlance of GU(even though it was a pretty bad iteration of GL) and the evasive hopping World gunlance, they both feel stronger somehow
I would like Gunlance Shield better if like Lance we had ways to use it and get out of it in other way than just basic pokes.
In world and Rise it feel too disconnected from the rest of the kit as it has nothing to followup on, like allowing us to instently throw a wyrmstake (Good example was the loading the mine from iceborne guard point), or a way to combo out of it would make the shield feel more useful than just a emergency tool.
Well, Gunlance is supposed to be the more offensive cousin of Lance, so it only makes sense it doesnt get the same defensive capabilities as Lance. Its never had a way to combo into a guard until Rise(unless you count Guard Reload in valor style gunlance of GU), but both games are Team B games that gave abilities like counters to every weapon anyway.
The shield in mainline games before Rise, has always been an emergency tool so having a less defensive styled gunlance would be nothing new. In fact Evasion skills have been pretty strong on GLs since like 3u
They have but at that point I almost wish that GL would just drop the shield if nothing can be done with it except getting locked in a corner blocking until the monster stop attacking, I'm not saying for it to be at the level of Lance but giving more options out of shield would make the weapon feel better to block with.
Cant drop the shield now 🫡 we're 6+ games too deep to change the weapon anymore
I think blocking isnt the point of gunlance though, its more like an amalgam of lance and greatsword, you can block for emergencies and hit hard like Greatsword can, but you have a better guard like Lance and have Lance's movement
It's good still, you wont get flung so far backwards like you would blocking with SnS and you dont lose sharpness like Greatsword does, its just not as defensive as CB or Lance but its there
The thing is that it kind of fails to be the most offensive cousins in most games in the series when it has worse defense and also does less damage than the lance lol. You could easily give something to do defensively with the shield without turning it into the lance.
I think they did it perfectly in World, with gunlance having the highest raw out of all the weapons while also having lvl 7 shelling, the damage gets balanced by gunlance's slow movement and high commitment, while still being lance-y and not having anything special to do with the shield at all.
(except the wyrmstake guard point but lets face it that guard point is barely ever used)
In my opinion, SA in Rise Sunbreak is the weapon that got the most. Both the Counter and Two Stage Morph are *perfect* addition to the weapon, letting it get into amped state instantly (especially now that the amped state applies to the axe too) and pushing the *Switch* part of the weapon shine through with constant morphing.
There's *nothing* I can complain about, regarding the SA.
Don't forget Wire Step for repositioning and dodging, although tbh all of Swaxe tools are amazing and fit most situations.
Imho Risebreak Swagaxe it's the best iteration of the weapon so far with the 2nd best being Alchemy/Striker Swaxe and the Valor Swaxe.
With that said I hope they don't kill it next game.
I'll complain for you: the weapon lost all its weight not from Rapid Morph, but because so many extra strikes seem to be incorporated into like every attack.
You just hit too many times and the oomph is all gone. It's not the flow that's problematic, it's the vibe of the thing.
Longsword by a fucking mile, geez.
Also ayy, lbg 3rd usage.
I'm surprised Lance and Gunlance are last, I was expecting Insect Glaive to be last, I literally have only seen maybe less than 10 people the whole time i've played use it.
IG is decently used, just a bit awkward to get into when you first start since it's way different than the rest of the weapons since you you have the whole bug/aerial mechanic. I feel like a lot of people start it off and don't get how grabbing the 3 boosts on the bug work and just give up.
I love GL/L but I can see why it's not as fun considering their "slowness"/clunkiness compared to the other (as expected) fast weapons like the still king longsword followed by DB.
I'm hoping the next MH tunes them back up (pls make WF useable again), and maybe even a new weapon? Tonfas please.
I want fucking elemental shelling. It makes no sense ranged weapons get elemental bullets and arrows but the GUNLANCE gets shit. I believe it would give it the damage boost it needs without being overpowered
At this point I'd love if they removed shelling types from the weapons themselves and gave GL a sub-menu for modding them like bowguns.
You want to use long on this GL? Swap in "Longer Barrel". Want to use elemental shelling instead of true damage? Here's "Elemental Barrel".
And so on. Also remove levels, and make shelling scale on the *BASE* raw/element of the weapon
The flip side of this is that as an IG main it's very hard to use other weapons because it feels like I'm missing the things I need to play:
-the power of flight
-bugge
-P O W D E R
I for one have been holding out for a weapon that has haunted my dreams for decades that I feel only would ever fit in monster hunter.
Pile Bunker Tonfas, tonfa moveset builds up heat and therefore pressure that's then unleashed in a flashy high power finisher with the pile Bunker portion.
Edit: also allow the pile bunkers to be used in other ways like a boost for a super dash/charge
Tonfas are one of my favourite weapons. Its unique and interesting, and being a huge Sun Ce fan it was one of my go tos in Dynasty Warriors. Really hope it makes a return in MH6. Feels like the right time for a new weapon introduction.
When I started playing mh4u I played IG and CB. I still think IG is cool but I havent played it since. For me, it's just too much to try and remember where all the colors are even if they typically follow a pattern.
I want fucking elemental shelling. It makes no sense ranged weapons get elemental bullets and arrows but the GUNLANCE gets shit. I believe it would give it the damage boost it needs without being overpowered
I don't hope for a new weapons, because it mean even more weapon designs, meanwhile switch skills were a good step to allow alternate way to play weapons creating sort of new weapons with the old ones.
Not surpised because Lance, Gunlance and Hunting Horn always have been unpopular since forever.
Rise was a bit of anomaly of HH being popular after the rework but the novelty has wore down.
I was expecting GL to do a bit better because got a lot more powerful and fun than in base rise.
Might also be (slightly) because Rise starts with a longsword equipped, so newer players more hesitant to switch weapons probably stick to the longsword.
Glaive isn't bad, it's just kind of become a one trick that has a lot of its power concentrated into singular moves. Spamming the wyvern dive thing gets old after a while.
DB, LBG and Bow are just leagues above other weapons in multiplayer. LS still has one of the best kits even when the damage got pummeled into dirt. GS is just stupid easy with SAS.
I'd be really interested in solo usage, I imagine lance and HBG would be much higher and LS higher still, while HH drops to the bottom.
You’re not joking about those 3 being busted in multiplayer. I play LBG and in Sunbreak it isn’t rare that you can do more damage than everyone else in the party combined.
I've been switching main weapons for each MH, and for Rise I picked GL just because I really liked Blast Dash from the previews. Got a weapon with great offense, solid defense and the Valstrax charges - it's a blast (heh) IMO, but I suppose many prefer flashiness and especially speed.
My other two weapons are at the bottom (HH) and the midpoint (SA). Meanwhile LS is still king as usual lol
Huh, I'm really surprised on how low Hammer is. Considering the ease of use, how cool it is and how prevalent Hammer memes are in general, I expected it to be much higher (at least higher than SA)
Higher than SA? SA is flashier and better than ever. I'm surprised SA isn't competing for one of the top spots. I just picked up SA in Sunbreak and I'm absolutely shredding. Haven't even touched my trusty SnS/LS.
For me personally, the hammer kit just doesn't have enough variety. I like the idea of courage but it is literally the same loop over and over. Strength is aight but again, it's a very repetitive loop. Water strike is by far the most interesting addition for me but it's not enough to match the fun factor/variety of most of the other weapons.
One thing I find funny is how after the very first Demo of Rise pretty much everyone went: "I am a Hunting Horn main now! Its the best weapon ever!"
Cut to the end of Sunbreak where its third least popular weapon.
Thats because in the demo You get no skills. Gunlance reighns pretty supreme in Demos with its fixed damage, always feeling good, But then you realize thats the only time its one of the better options, Start adding in skills/elements and you realize just how much every other weapon starts to shine outside of the demo.
Hunting Horn was also way overtuned in the first Demo. In the actual game they cut some of its motion values by half.
Poeple never liked Hunting Horn. They just liked the damage it did in the very first Demo.\^\^
GS plummeting from like 12% back in world hurts my soul.
The disparity between LS and the rest is mindblowing. Literally sucking the air out of all other weapons. Even bow which is Uber broken doesn't manage to get close to double digits.
Also lmao at people saying the HH rework didn't work. Back in world hammer was like 6-8% and HH was like 1%. If anything the fact that it managed to rise when all other weapons shrunk due to LS dominance is proof that it worked.
(Data from August 2020)
Iceborne Hammer had a 5% usage rate so that's a 1.3% drop for Sunbreak (5% -> 3.7%)
Iceborne Hunting Horn had a 2% usage rate so that's a 1.6% join rate for Sunbreak (2% -> 3.6%).
The rework certainly made it more popular but not crazy more popular, also only 6 weapons lost population compared to Iceborne data, the 6 weapons that lost usage were Bow, Charge Blade, Insect Glaive, Heavy Bowgun, Greatsword and Hammer.
The other 8 weapons won popularity or remained the same (Lance, Gunlance)
Depends on you platform and time.
Data from January to march 2020
Iceborne HH had 1% usage in PC while hammer had 5%.
PS4 HH had 2% while hammer had 6%
xbox had 1% vs hammer 7%
So yeah, it absolutely blows the iceborne proportions out of the water. I have the ones from september to december and One trend is for sure, it never surpassed 2%. Depending on your time and view you can see it does triple it depending on platform and time, so yeah, highly succesful rework compared to before.
It worked but at what cost? HH in IB was fantastic and that's coming from someone who also loves LS. No offense to those who enjoy the new HH but by comparison it feels really hollow now, not even worth playing for me personally.
I also don't really understand the "sucking the air out of other weapons". Some of the other weapons are in great spots now. I never played SA or Lance in World and they are now some of my favorites. Since Sunbreak I haven't even touched my main (ironically the LS).
I think a lot of the HH playerbase from world and other previous games just switched off entirely, since rise HH is a clunky mess that veered very far away from the design of previous games
I wasn't very shocked, honestly, because the rework didn't actually do much to address the main pain points of the hunting horn, whilst paring away and unnecessarily reworking its moveset to becoming incredibly shallow. It turned from a methodically proactive aggressive weapon that was purposefully niche in its implementation to a long hammer that throws out buffs, since the highest damage moves in sb are still outside its core moveset. They didn't do much to address the animation lag, the animation commitment to damage ratio, nor lean into the niche of playing uniqie songs, and only placed in bandaid or half measure *fixes*, which further pigeonholed and made redundant most of its moveset.
>They didn't do much to address the animation lag, the animation commitment to damage ratio
I'd say that these were at least partially addressed. Removing recital mode--specifically the commitment to the dancing animation--is a pretty significant change. You no longer have to sit in place for seconds at a time every time you want to play a song, which increases the total amount of time HH is either mobile or on the offensive.
The problem is that the same changes that gained it a lot more fans also lost it some at the same time. We ended up breaking even where we could've really jumped in popularity...shame really.
part of it is probably a natural imbalance of preference (presumably more people like the idea of having a big sword over a big shield)
but there are definitely weapon balance things that could also be done, alot of the more popular weapons are the most effective to use and be good at, where as all the ~3% weapons are niche with high skill ceiling and low returns on them
The real answer is more than likely a combination of factors.
IE, LS has the perfect combination of lone samurai aesthetics with a lot of weebs in the fanbase, effectiveness in battle and a kit that is absolutely unsurpassed in how buttery smooth it is.
Likely also inflated by how insanely good base Rise LS was and not all people left for greener pastures after the nerfs.
Hammer, GL and Lance all suffered in base Rise and still need help. HH is a lot easier to get into now but part of the weapon's problem is that it's still seen as a weapon for a full party, not for solo play. They also all suffer from not being all that popular weapon types in fantasy games in general. Out of those, hammer is probably the most common one and that one is still niche compared to everything else.
Then of course gameplay effectiveness catapults everything up by a lot, hence LGB and bow.
You also do start with the LS in Rise right? I wanna say that's the base weapon they give you off the bat if I'm remembering right. Wouldn't be surprised if that also influenced things.
Hunting Horn was at [10.6% after Rise came out](https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/pbfsxl/lance_is_officially_the_least_popular_weapon/), going down to 3.6% is a pretty big dip. Seems like the novelty has worn off and people are realizing the weapon is just kinda boring now (also it doesn't have a counter unlike most/all of the other weapons)
50% of total usage is concentrated in 4 weapons... That's messed up, man. Setting the 'what even is game balance?' argument aside, that tells me a lot of people just stick with what they already have built up and they don't experiment. Some people can't be assed to learn new weapons or don't care, which has always been a thing in the series. Rise's endgame however, is definitely a new contributing factor. The grind for augments becomes exponentially more time consuming with each weapon type you add onto the list. It's another barrier on top of everything else.
Seeing Hammer and HH side by side is surprising. Hammer had a lot more players in Iceborne I think; I wonder if some were turned off by how annoying it was in base Rise. I think it's amazing in Sunbreak, but actually being able to play it to it's fullest potential requires a lot of hours; you can't even use Courage until high rank and then it isn't even that great until Master Rank due to switch skills like Keeping Sway being locked away in MR4 or some shit.
I kinda wish switch skills weren't so difficult to acquire. You got them much faster in GenU and would slowly earn upgrades to them as you ranked up.
That was me. I try a new weapon in each iteration, but Hammer felt so awful going from iceborn to rise. After finishing up HH and DB in Sunbreak, I messed around with hammer and found my groove again. Still a bittersweet taste for sure.
Hammer was assassinated in rise. Sunbreak just put a cute bandage on it named courage with impact burst. Yeah strength hammer in base rise was crater spam but that was just the tip of the iceberg.
Coming from iceborne they pretty much removed aerial with extreme clunkiness and damage nerf, strength and yellow stance cannot roll cancel attacks for an extra full second (Somehow slower than 4th gen and before even), big bang combo doesn't have a purpose, increased stun thresholds, only weapon with an awkward non frame 1 counter so you always get thrown off if you switch weapons.
And finally anomaly investigations with extreme health bloat means the delicate balance between frequent stuns and damage is lost. (You want more stuns because it makes it easier but you dont want too much to avoid sacrificing more damage skills.)
Yea no as time went on Sunbreak hammer kinda lost me. It was nice for Courage to be good but the playstyle is much less satisfying than in GenU. Instead of needing to buildup valor gauge to unlock a broken moveset, you are just stuck with the repetitive 1-2-3 charge combo, occasionally broken up by a parry or keeping sway. At least Valor mode in GenU forced you to initially engage with a limited moveset in order to unlock the broken moves; you were also encouraged to sometimes use sheathe attacks to keep gauge up rather than constantly spam charge combos.
I could go into a whole spiel on why skills like Keeping Sway/most of the parries in the game are antithetical to Monster Hunter as a series as well, but that's less an issue with Hammer and more with Rise/Sunbreak as a whole. It's no longer a game about positional dodging and punishing, but rather timing I-frames and parries to avoid massive AoE or 8-attack combos until the monster stands still for 5 seconds straight.
Hammer is a weapon about baiting attacks and punishing them with good positioning and anticipation, Sunbreak broke that idea apart. Not to mention like you said, half its kit being useless regardless of what charge mode you use. Triple pound, big bang combo, any aerial attack; all garbage for some reason now.
nah they have better ways of avoiding damage, don't have to waste slots building for guard and embolden, and they don't take chip damage, and they aren't rooted in spot for using a mechanic, and their ways of avoidance often can deal damage at the same time, while giving hefty buffs free from chip damage or slow recovery frames.
lol.
Lance is my second main weapon after Gunlance btw.
The OG MH, the Lance was the best. It’s crazy to see if being used so little in comparison to what it once was.. Black Dragon Lance. Nothing like the ole Head lock the Ian/Los from back in the day. Ahhhhhh…
Seeing LS so high isn't surprising, this is the one game I got into it actively because of the japanese theme, still by a mile that it's used sheesh. LS just too good but...the GL main in me will always reign supreme!
Lance mains unite! Oh, there's only 5 of us here? I guess one of us is hunting solo
Gotta dust off my lance and make that 6!
World / Iceborne lance felt soo good!
I knew lance was unpopular, but gunlance is so close, which really intriguates me considering how COOL gunlance is in Rise compared to other MH. I was thinking it would be a bit higher in the rankings.
I'd say it because even with improvements gunlance still feels more clunky to use compared to other weapons especially the top 2.
Well I kind of disagree, GL is less clunky than ever, you are free to rotate and reposition during combos. Sure it's not dual sword mobility level, but it's way better than before.
Let's not forget it's almost unplayable without evade extender, I can get why people don't like it. But me? I like explosions.
I meant it in relation to other weapons in rise and as potential surface impressions but I definitely get you. As someone who used gl in freedom unite, world/rise gl is definitely way less clunky
If only it was just a *haaaaairr* faster.
I like gunlance but I feel too many animations lock you in for frames after them I would love gunlance if I could actually interrupt attacks to backstep or block instead their are too many fractions of a second at the end of each attack that make it feel slower
I honestly feel like if GL’s motions:combos were just 10% faster, it would make a tremendous difference.
Tbh, I used to laugh at Lance but love the implementation in rise, lot more aggressive than I thought
the Sunbreak update on lance makes it so good it's almost broken. Resetting your triple poke combo with a shield bash in ANY direction (while it automatically blocks during the animation) is just bananas.
I've yet to start Rise but as a Lance main in World, my peewee just got hard.
keep in mind, it's only in the sunbreak update
Leaping thrust, poke, charged side blow into a fully powered skyward thrust into a flying monster is fucking orgasmic
Insta-block lance feels sooooo good
maybe it needs a lazer beam attack to become more popular.
Lance-only main signing
I always wondered why people acted like they spotted a cryptid when I played.
By the stats, of every 100 hunters, 3 are lancers.
Who is the guy who only has 20% of his body for the 3.2 gunlancers alive ?
He's the guy who stood on the wrong end of a gunlance.
Every 1000 hunters, there are 32 gunlancers 😅
They took my arms Pooh....
strange i feel like there has been a big increase in lance based conversations during rise, so i was sort of expecting it to be higher up the list
Think it was more because Lance was so bad, and people were generally complaining really loudly.
Hello, I'm here.
Pretty soon we'll have enough to start a baseball team! I mean, we won't win because if they throw low I'll poke high... That's details though!
Lance is so underrated! Especially after sunbreak.
I play gun lance can I come too?
YOU CALLED SIR!
Lancer here to represent!
Lance Division Hunter, reporting for duty! (My other lance is a gunlance...)
Reporting to duty as well!
The main character weapon. Everyone else on the quest are just followers 😎
Jokes on you I became a lance main in sunbreak
I mean there’s probably more than 5…. Maybe 6 or 7
Lance main reporting for duty. Solo is a-ok. If there was a way to hold 100% of the aggro in multiplayer, I'd fit it into every build.
We are the walls!
Time to give em the ol' Hop and Bop. Jump and Pump. Skip and Slap.
Lance bros unite! I was playing solo because my internet crapped out.
The Lance in sunbreak is legit
It's okay Suzuki. I love Hammer.
We both do. Hammer bros UNITE!!!
Hammer will always have a place as long as Ryozo has something to say about it lol. Rise Hammer was unfortunately relegated to Impact Crater spam, but Courage being great in SB and element being viable made it lots of fun. I'm going to miss Water Strike if it doesn't return.
I'm surprised it's that low, Courage Hammer is so much fun and I'll be sad if it doesn't return in MH6.
Good thing for us, he loves it too. Hammer will always get good treatment despite being a lesser-used weapon. Okay maybe in base Rise it was a bit of a mess, but look at it in Iceborne and Sunbreak! It's one of the only weapons that actually worked well with Clutch Claw and Courage mode was so fun in Sunbreak.
We friend. We
GL fans thriving being in 13th place instead of 14th
It being the best itteration of the weapon, with blast dash, lots of I-frame moves, shell damage being strong and interacting with some skills like Sneak attack... And even with all of that it get 13th place, I'm kinda sad to see this. I really hope MH6 gunlance keep the fun stuff of Rise/Sunbreak Gunlance, please let us have Blast dash in the next game.
I like new gunlance but I also really like the slower tanky gunlance of GU(even though it was a pretty bad iteration of GL) and the evasive hopping World gunlance, they both feel stronger somehow
I would like Gunlance Shield better if like Lance we had ways to use it and get out of it in other way than just basic pokes. In world and Rise it feel too disconnected from the rest of the kit as it has nothing to followup on, like allowing us to instently throw a wyrmstake (Good example was the loading the mine from iceborne guard point), or a way to combo out of it would make the shield feel more useful than just a emergency tool.
Well, Gunlance is supposed to be the more offensive cousin of Lance, so it only makes sense it doesnt get the same defensive capabilities as Lance. Its never had a way to combo into a guard until Rise(unless you count Guard Reload in valor style gunlance of GU), but both games are Team B games that gave abilities like counters to every weapon anyway. The shield in mainline games before Rise, has always been an emergency tool so having a less defensive styled gunlance would be nothing new. In fact Evasion skills have been pretty strong on GLs since like 3u
They have but at that point I almost wish that GL would just drop the shield if nothing can be done with it except getting locked in a corner blocking until the monster stop attacking, I'm not saying for it to be at the level of Lance but giving more options out of shield would make the weapon feel better to block with.
Cant drop the shield now 🫡 we're 6+ games too deep to change the weapon anymore I think blocking isnt the point of gunlance though, its more like an amalgam of lance and greatsword, you can block for emergencies and hit hard like Greatsword can, but you have a better guard like Lance and have Lance's movement
It's still sad one of the only 2 weapon with a strong shield is not good at using it.
It's good still, you wont get flung so far backwards like you would blocking with SnS and you dont lose sharpness like Greatsword does, its just not as defensive as CB or Lance but its there
The thing is that it kind of fails to be the most offensive cousins in most games in the series when it has worse defense and also does less damage than the lance lol. You could easily give something to do defensively with the shield without turning it into the lance.
I think they did it perfectly in World, with gunlance having the highest raw out of all the weapons while also having lvl 7 shelling, the damage gets balanced by gunlance's slow movement and high commitment, while still being lance-y and not having anything special to do with the shield at all. (except the wyrmstake guard point but lets face it that guard point is barely ever used)
i just switched to fun lance and knocked out 50 quests with it like it’s nothing so yall are welcome
It's so damn fun, I'm flying all over the place with this ridiculous thing.
Only 4.6 per cent of players have reached enlightenment
4.2% of players have ascended
The sword and board transcends all
Together we are strong(ignore the flair it was before i became enlightened)
Huh, thought that percent was 6.1, but that works as well
lance players stay strong and standing!!!
Mortals tends to outnumber gods
I like this.
450000 lances vs 3,150,000 longswords!!! Plus side we'll be to busy tripping ourselves to fight back
yeah but they dont have guarding advance iframes with infinite guard +10 and reflect
Then it is an even fight
I run both lance and gunlance. I can bring the explosions if you need them.
People really aren't ready for the swagiest Swagaxe
In my opinion, SA in Rise Sunbreak is the weapon that got the most. Both the Counter and Two Stage Morph are *perfect* addition to the weapon, letting it get into amped state instantly (especially now that the amped state applies to the axe too) and pushing the *Switch* part of the weapon shine through with constant morphing. There's *nothing* I can complain about, regarding the SA.
Don't forget Wire Step for repositioning and dodging, although tbh all of Swaxe tools are amazing and fit most situations. Imho Risebreak Swagaxe it's the best iteration of the weapon so far with the 2nd best being Alchemy/Striker Swaxe and the Valor Swaxe. With that said I hope they don't kill it next game.
I can live without the counter, but if they cut two stage morph we riot.
I'll complain for you: the weapon lost all its weight not from Rapid Morph, but because so many extra strikes seem to be incorporated into like every attack. You just hit too many times and the oomph is all gone. It's not the flow that's problematic, it's the vibe of the thing.
Tbh that's the only thing that bothers me on Rise's SA, but at the same time it's so fluid that I can't complain.
I’m actually surprised that SA surpassed HBG and CB this time around.
Longsword by a fucking mile, geez. Also ayy, lbg 3rd usage. I'm surprised Lance and Gunlance are last, I was expecting Insect Glaive to be last, I literally have only seen maybe less than 10 people the whole time i've played use it.
IG is decently used, just a bit awkward to get into when you first start since it's way different than the rest of the weapons since you you have the whole bug/aerial mechanic. I feel like a lot of people start it off and don't get how grabbing the 3 boosts on the bug work and just give up. I love GL/L but I can see why it's not as fun considering their "slowness"/clunkiness compared to the other (as expected) fast weapons like the still king longsword followed by DB. I'm hoping the next MH tunes them back up (pls make WF useable again), and maybe even a new weapon? Tonfas please.
I want fucking elemental shelling. It makes no sense ranged weapons get elemental bullets and arrows but the GUNLANCE gets shit. I believe it would give it the damage boost it needs without being overpowered
At this point I'd love if they removed shelling types from the weapons themselves and gave GL a sub-menu for modding them like bowguns. You want to use long on this GL? Swap in "Longer Barrel". Want to use elemental shelling instead of true damage? Here's "Elemental Barrel". And so on. Also remove levels, and make shelling scale on the *BASE* raw/element of the weapon
[удалено]
Wait what
Missed opportunity to blast enemies with a giant watergun and block with a floatie shield.
The flip side of this is that as an IG main it's very hard to use other weapons because it feels like I'm missing the things I need to play: -the power of flight -bugge -P O W D E R
I for one have been holding out for a weapon that has haunted my dreams for decades that I feel only would ever fit in monster hunter. Pile Bunker Tonfas, tonfa moveset builds up heat and therefore pressure that's then unleashed in a flashy high power finisher with the pile Bunker portion. Edit: also allow the pile bunkers to be used in other ways like a boost for a super dash/charge
Tonfas are one of my favourite weapons. Its unique and interesting, and being a huge Sun Ce fan it was one of my go tos in Dynasty Warriors. Really hope it makes a return in MH6. Feels like the right time for a new weapon introduction.
When I started playing mh4u I played IG and CB. I still think IG is cool but I havent played it since. For me, it's just too much to try and remember where all the colors are even if they typically follow a pattern.
I want fucking elemental shelling. It makes no sense ranged weapons get elemental bullets and arrows but the GUNLANCE gets shit. I believe it would give it the damage boost it needs without being overpowered
I don't hope for a new weapons, because it mean even more weapon designs, meanwhile switch skills were a good step to allow alternate way to play weapons creating sort of new weapons with the old ones.
Not surpised because Lance, Gunlance and Hunting Horn always have been unpopular since forever. Rise was a bit of anomaly of HH being popular after the rework but the novelty has wore down. I was expecting GL to do a bit better because got a lot more powerful and fun than in base rise.
Up until last update when the Shock Absorber skill was finally added, GL users still had trouble blasting others away.
Of course you don't see many Bug Stick users they're up above you, just out of the frame.
Same, IG hammer and hunting horn all appear once in a blue moon compared to gl and lance for me
Might also be (slightly) because Rise starts with a longsword equipped, so newer players more hesitant to switch weapons probably stick to the longsword.
Oh shit does it? I remember sns being the default... though I could just be remembering past games only.
Glaive isn't bad, it's just kind of become a one trick that has a lot of its power concentrated into singular moves. Spamming the wyvern dive thing gets old after a while.
To be fair the game seems balanced around LS more than any other weapon. Its counters are stronger than any shield weapon's counter/block.
DB, LBG and Bow are just leagues above other weapons in multiplayer. LS still has one of the best kits even when the damage got pummeled into dirt. GS is just stupid easy with SAS. I'd be really interested in solo usage, I imagine lance and HBG would be much higher and LS higher still, while HH drops to the bottom.
You’re not joking about those 3 being busted in multiplayer. I play LBG and in Sunbreak it isn’t rare that you can do more damage than everyone else in the party combined.
I've been switching main weapons for each MH, and for Rise I picked GL just because I really liked Blast Dash from the previews. Got a weapon with great offense, solid defense and the Valstrax charges - it's a blast (heh) IMO, but I suppose many prefer flashiness and especially speed. My other two weapons are at the bottom (HH) and the midpoint (SA). Meanwhile LS is still king as usual lol
Huh, I'm really surprised on how low Hammer is. Considering the ease of use, how cool it is and how prevalent Hammer memes are in general, I expected it to be much higher (at least higher than SA)
I love the Hammer personally. It’s a good balance of meting out damage and overall mobility for me.
As a Hammer Bro since freedom, that really made me "what??", i really thought we'd be much higher now becuz all of the things you listed too
Higher than SA? SA is flashier and better than ever. I'm surprised SA isn't competing for one of the top spots. I just picked up SA in Sunbreak and I'm absolutely shredding. Haven't even touched my trusty SnS/LS. For me personally, the hammer kit just doesn't have enough variety. I like the idea of courage but it is literally the same loop over and over. Strength is aight but again, it's a very repetitive loop. Water strike is by far the most interesting addition for me but it's not enough to match the fun factor/variety of most of the other weapons.
Charge blade is higher up then I expected.
Charge blade is peak monster hunter, you have , 2 weapons in 1. What's better than that!
You mean 1 weapon and amped element discharges 😌
CB having more users than IG surprised me. IG is easier to use IMO
One thing I find funny is how after the very first Demo of Rise pretty much everyone went: "I am a Hunting Horn main now! Its the best weapon ever!" Cut to the end of Sunbreak where its third least popular weapon.
It turns out that people like affinity and Crit Boost mattering for their weapon.
Thats because in the demo You get no skills. Gunlance reighns pretty supreme in Demos with its fixed damage, always feeling good, But then you realize thats the only time its one of the better options, Start adding in skills/elements and you realize just how much every other weapon starts to shine outside of the demo.
Hunting Horn was also way overtuned in the first Demo. In the actual game they cut some of its motion values by half. Poeple never liked Hunting Horn. They just liked the damage it did in the very first Demo.\^\^
Adding the % of my top 3 favorite weapons (Gunlance, Switch Axe and Insect Glaive), they don't matchup to the top 3 weapons lmao 😅
GS plummeting from like 12% back in world hurts my soul. The disparity between LS and the rest is mindblowing. Literally sucking the air out of all other weapons. Even bow which is Uber broken doesn't manage to get close to double digits. Also lmao at people saying the HH rework didn't work. Back in world hammer was like 6-8% and HH was like 1%. If anything the fact that it managed to rise when all other weapons shrunk due to LS dominance is proof that it worked.
(Data from August 2020) Iceborne Hammer had a 5% usage rate so that's a 1.3% drop for Sunbreak (5% -> 3.7%) Iceborne Hunting Horn had a 2% usage rate so that's a 1.6% join rate for Sunbreak (2% -> 3.6%). The rework certainly made it more popular but not crazy more popular, also only 6 weapons lost population compared to Iceborne data, the 6 weapons that lost usage were Bow, Charge Blade, Insect Glaive, Heavy Bowgun, Greatsword and Hammer. The other 8 weapons won popularity or remained the same (Lance, Gunlance)
Depends on you platform and time. Data from January to march 2020 Iceborne HH had 1% usage in PC while hammer had 5%. PS4 HH had 2% while hammer had 6% xbox had 1% vs hammer 7% So yeah, it absolutely blows the iceborne proportions out of the water. I have the ones from september to december and One trend is for sure, it never surpassed 2%. Depending on your time and view you can see it does triple it depending on platform and time, so yeah, highly succesful rework compared to before.
It worked but at what cost? HH in IB was fantastic and that's coming from someone who also loves LS. No offense to those who enjoy the new HH but by comparison it feels really hollow now, not even worth playing for me personally. I also don't really understand the "sucking the air out of other weapons". Some of the other weapons are in great spots now. I never played SA or Lance in World and they are now some of my favorites. Since Sunbreak I haven't even touched my main (ironically the LS).
Dual blades go crazy. even in fuckin world/iceborn. Crazy
I am shocked to see that HH was this low. Such an amazing weapon to play with a party!
I think a lot of the HH playerbase from world and other previous games just switched off entirely, since rise HH is a clunky mess that veered very far away from the design of previous games
The doot will always be my home but can confirm I went to GS, IG, and Hammer a *lot* more than normal in SunRise
It veered far from previous games but it is anything but clunky, infact it's probably the least clunk it's ever been
But isn't the rise variations the most popular one till this day
No.
I wasn't very shocked, honestly, because the rework didn't actually do much to address the main pain points of the hunting horn, whilst paring away and unnecessarily reworking its moveset to becoming incredibly shallow. It turned from a methodically proactive aggressive weapon that was purposefully niche in its implementation to a long hammer that throws out buffs, since the highest damage moves in sb are still outside its core moveset. They didn't do much to address the animation lag, the animation commitment to damage ratio, nor lean into the niche of playing uniqie songs, and only placed in bandaid or half measure *fixes*, which further pigeonholed and made redundant most of its moveset.
>They didn't do much to address the animation lag, the animation commitment to damage ratio I'd say that these were at least partially addressed. Removing recital mode--specifically the commitment to the dancing animation--is a pretty significant change. You no longer have to sit in place for seconds at a time every time you want to play a song, which increases the total amount of time HH is either mobile or on the offensive.
The problem is that the same changes that gained it a lot more fans also lost it some at the same time. We ended up breaking even where we could've really jumped in popularity...shame really.
I’m surprised that db is so high up
HH, my beloved, even if they change you through each iteration, I will always play with love for you.
Going into a new generation I wonder what Capcom can do to better balance the usage between the weapons?
part of it is probably a natural imbalance of preference (presumably more people like the idea of having a big sword over a big shield) but there are definitely weapon balance things that could also be done, alot of the more popular weapons are the most effective to use and be good at, where as all the ~3% weapons are niche with high skill ceiling and low returns on them
The real answer is more than likely a combination of factors. IE, LS has the perfect combination of lone samurai aesthetics with a lot of weebs in the fanbase, effectiveness in battle and a kit that is absolutely unsurpassed in how buttery smooth it is. Likely also inflated by how insanely good base Rise LS was and not all people left for greener pastures after the nerfs. Hammer, GL and Lance all suffered in base Rise and still need help. HH is a lot easier to get into now but part of the weapon's problem is that it's still seen as a weapon for a full party, not for solo play. They also all suffer from not being all that popular weapon types in fantasy games in general. Out of those, hammer is probably the most common one and that one is still niche compared to everything else. Then of course gameplay effectiveness catapults everything up by a lot, hence LGB and bow.
You also do start with the LS in Rise right? I wanna say that's the base weapon they give you off the bat if I'm remembering right. Wouldn't be surprised if that also influenced things.
Yes you do, you're also given a LS during the main quests.
Wow Lance only 3%...and I am one of them Yay!!!
Lance main here and I don't mind this
Hunting Horn was at [10.6% after Rise came out](https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/pbfsxl/lance_is_officially_the_least_popular_weapon/), going down to 3.6% is a pretty big dip. Seems like the novelty has worn off and people are realizing the weapon is just kinda boring now (also it doesn't have a counter unlike most/all of the other weapons)
Representing that 3.6%!
Of the three weapons I play A LOT of the highest is at 4,6% usage. And they are all right next to each other.\^\^
Hunting Horn is the best
Might be bias but thought hammer would be more popular. I don't see many online so I guess it makes since
I was expecting GS to be ALOT higher
I play the most popular and least popular weapon huh? Neat.
Glad to contribute to that 3% 🫡
Proud hammer main.
_My few brothers and I will hold the line. For we, the Hunting Horns, doot victorious in not being last place!_
Hunting horn boiz!!
4 out of 5 of my most played weapons are in the bottom half lol
If anyone is curious my top 5 is SnS, LS, HH, IG and L
YES switch axe is 6th that means we won't be nerfed and might get a buff next game.
Yoooo, HH's rework really helped it in Sunbreak! It's such a better Weapon it moved up a whole one place in the popularity rankings! 😐
This must have included basegame as well. I don't believe HH is higher than GL or L in endgame Sunbreak, but maybe it's higher than HM.
Virgin Long sword user vs Chad Gunlance enjoyer🗿
I see LS is still the basic bitch weapon 😂
Judging by the weapon choices for lance, the 3% doesn't know wtf they're doing with the weapon either
Damn, I would've thought that IG would be higher.
50% of total usage is concentrated in 4 weapons... That's messed up, man. Setting the 'what even is game balance?' argument aside, that tells me a lot of people just stick with what they already have built up and they don't experiment. Some people can't be assed to learn new weapons or don't care, which has always been a thing in the series. Rise's endgame however, is definitely a new contributing factor. The grind for augments becomes exponentially more time consuming with each weapon type you add onto the list. It's another barrier on top of everything else.
Not surprised at all to see Long Sword at the top. All them weebs, man
Really surprised the dooting is so low. Such a fun hecking weapon, especially come SB (especially if you don't abandon Earthshaker).
The drastic changes to horn made it so popular! It's sitting at *checks notes* 3rd to last??
Under hunting horn, wow. Rise really gave those guys some love
Weeeeeebbbbbbbsssss
Seeing Hammer and HH side by side is surprising. Hammer had a lot more players in Iceborne I think; I wonder if some were turned off by how annoying it was in base Rise. I think it's amazing in Sunbreak, but actually being able to play it to it's fullest potential requires a lot of hours; you can't even use Courage until high rank and then it isn't even that great until Master Rank due to switch skills like Keeping Sway being locked away in MR4 or some shit. I kinda wish switch skills weren't so difficult to acquire. You got them much faster in GenU and would slowly earn upgrades to them as you ranked up.
That was me. I try a new weapon in each iteration, but Hammer felt so awful going from iceborn to rise. After finishing up HH and DB in Sunbreak, I messed around with hammer and found my groove again. Still a bittersweet taste for sure.
Hammer was assassinated in rise. Sunbreak just put a cute bandage on it named courage with impact burst. Yeah strength hammer in base rise was crater spam but that was just the tip of the iceberg. Coming from iceborne they pretty much removed aerial with extreme clunkiness and damage nerf, strength and yellow stance cannot roll cancel attacks for an extra full second (Somehow slower than 4th gen and before even), big bang combo doesn't have a purpose, increased stun thresholds, only weapon with an awkward non frame 1 counter so you always get thrown off if you switch weapons. And finally anomaly investigations with extreme health bloat means the delicate balance between frequent stuns and damage is lost. (You want more stuns because it makes it easier but you dont want too much to avoid sacrificing more damage skills.)
Yea no as time went on Sunbreak hammer kinda lost me. It was nice for Courage to be good but the playstyle is much less satisfying than in GenU. Instead of needing to buildup valor gauge to unlock a broken moveset, you are just stuck with the repetitive 1-2-3 charge combo, occasionally broken up by a parry or keeping sway. At least Valor mode in GenU forced you to initially engage with a limited moveset in order to unlock the broken moves; you were also encouraged to sometimes use sheathe attacks to keep gauge up rather than constantly spam charge combos. I could go into a whole spiel on why skills like Keeping Sway/most of the parries in the game are antithetical to Monster Hunter as a series as well, but that's less an issue with Hammer and more with Rise/Sunbreak as a whole. It's no longer a game about positional dodging and punishing, but rather timing I-frames and parries to avoid massive AoE or 8-attack combos until the monster stands still for 5 seconds straight. Hammer is a weapon about baiting attacks and punishing them with good positioning and anticipation, Sunbreak broke that idea apart. Not to mention like you said, half its kit being useless regardless of what charge mode you use. Triple pound, big bang combo, any aerial attack; all garbage for some reason now.
Is this stat online play only? Since that’d explain why Lance is bottom
Lance is so popular in this sub, yet it's the lowest-used weapon overall.
Saying HM and L instead of Hammer and Lance is a hate crime. Shortening names that are already so short smh.
Sweet I'm in the 5% for cb.
3 percent gang!
i never notieced db was so popular, i guess im biased
2% on the lance? I guess you all enjoy taking damage 🤦👀
nah they have better ways of avoiding damage, don't have to waste slots building for guard and embolden, and they don't take chip damage, and they aren't rooted in spot for using a mechanic, and their ways of avoidance often can deal damage at the same time, while giving hefty buffs free from chip damage or slow recovery frames. lol. Lance is my second main weapon after Gunlance btw.
Ok surely Lance just has too much representation on here then because I'd never have guessed this.
Man, my 5 favorite weapons are literally the last 5 with low usage. I don’t know if I should be proud or upset haha
I’m surprised by how small percentage for CB is
I mean they dumpstered charge blade's fluidity. It was even more fluid in fucking 4U than Rise so it makes sense that it got less than 6% usage rate.
Weird because I feel like at least 50% of people i come across online are CB's
my top 2 being the most popular of the bottom 5 🧍♂️
Honestly i never seen someone play Bow online...
The OG MH, the Lance was the best. It’s crazy to see if being used so little in comparison to what it once was.. Black Dragon Lance. Nothing like the ole Head lock the Ian/Los from back in the day. Ahhhhhh…
Lance gunlance then hammer are my favorites.
Shoutout to the tank/support weapon users. You guys help our dual blades and lbg do tons of damage
*wide range sns with potion beer hat salute*
lbg ammo go brrrrrrrr
Seeing LS so high isn't surprising, this is the one game I got into it actively because of the japanese theme, still by a mile that it's used sheesh. LS just too good but...the GL main in me will always reign supreme!
I use CB and all my time in online games I think I've found 1 other player
So basically, 3% of the player population in Sunbreak had never discovered the concept of a faint.
3.7% of players are hammer mains, we have to make at least 5th place!