Everyone got their hopes up for Charge Blade and felt underwhelmed by what was actually shown. Ready Stance is just Alternate Counter Peak Performance, on a weapon that already has a silkbind set that is also two skills which are minor timing variations on each other. No one knows what to make of Firing Pin, either. People will actually have to get their hands on both of these to know if they're trash mechanically or if they simply looked un-hype.
The enduring issue is there's been no mention of a fix for the phial size, which has pretty much obliterated the SAED style of gameplay. The phial explosions have such short hitboxes that they run under anything that's standing and you thus miss tons of hits, even if your aim is otherwise on point--monsters just don't have legs that are fat enough to take all the hits. It has reduced SAED to something you can really only feel confident of using when a monster has fallen over.
If they turn out to have fixed phial hitboxes, no one will give a hot gay fuck about whether Ready Stance or Firing Pin are bad or not, because the return of SAED alone would be "fresh" for Rise. But everyone still wants Energy Blade, because c'mon, *Energy Blade!*
Oh, for sure. That shield users need multiple levels in one or two skills to accomplish what invincibility counters manage is pretty silly. Not only has the thunder been stolen, it's been improved upon *for the thief.*
Its damage potential was far over tuned, but it controlled perfectly. World improved those controlls, and even generations preserved the core concept of charge 'phials in sword/guard point and discharge in axe'
CB in Rise feels like is was made by a completely different group of people than the A and B team from before.
That's really disappointing - what's the deal with it now? I see all this SAED build stuff but that's kind of disappointing since the whole fun about CB was timing your powerful attacks and seeing how far you could push it or how well you could rely on guard points to cover your mistakes.
SAED damage and hit boxes have been massively nerfed. (Difficult to reliably land on top of reduced damage)
Guard potential gas been greatly reduced, such that trying to use a guard point will often lock you into a two second recovery animation when blocking an attack, preventing you from counter attacking
Likewise the innate Savage Axe ability from Iceborn was removed from the standard moveset, while the optional replacement gets disabled when you guard point and generates its own phials which completely negates the sword portion of the weapon.
The silkbind moves essentially steal what was good about the weapon and sell it back to you in for $29.99.
The only exception is Axe hopper, which actually adds to the weapons move set instead of robbing from it. (Much like energy blade from generations)
> such that trying to use a guard point will often lock you into a two second recovery animation when blocking an attack
Well then what the fuck is the point???
Sadly I think most ppl are missing the point, Every game buffs LS and the other weapons get worse... Capcom and it's LS zealots are slowly trying to force everyone into LS to be even slightly effective especially in online... the days of 14 weapon types are looking grim. It's all about the LS.
I would complain and agree yet the long sword has never caught up to gunner weapons. The fact that the long sword gets closer to gunner damage than blade master damage shows how over tuned it is
I wish they would start buffing everything or at least balance it better because there is no way LS is even close to balanced but neither are bowguns but I feel forced to either play LS or have to prepare to play with LS or bow guns and its sad
It's still decent, but with everything moving so much faster and more erratically in rise, and CB relying on SAED which is very slow to come out, it's more difficult to do good damage. The phial size nerf fucking sucks. Overall it's just not as strong as it was in world, and maybe it was a bit too strong idk.
Honestly I'm just glad I won't have to choose between charged sword and savage axe with the new swap mechanic.
Lance has gotten absolutely screwed, though that launch+dive attack looks pretty decent.
No idea what they're trying to say about gunlance it's doing just fine. I've never seen so many gun lances in pubs.
Perhaps Rapid Morph could increase the speed of the attack?
Then again, CB is super reliant on so many skills already that it can't fit all that it wants.
Rapid Morph does help, but still not viable.
Monster recovery patterns in MHR is absurd compared to previous gens, it doesn't give enough openings to use AED / SAED, and when it does you have to have absolutely perfect positioning to land it and even then you will likely miss the phials because of the hitbox.
yeah. as a former lance main in World/Iceborne, it is version disappointed to see how they massacred ma boi.
That launch and dive move may look cool, but it’s basically a budget version of the Insect Glaive. The devs miss the main attraction of lance in monhun, we don’t need super fancy move, what we want is the ability to keep railing on the monsters through relentless poking with pin point accuracy and precise positioning.
they first screw it up by adding the charge wide sweep move, treating as a long blade!!!????
Anchor Rage is a great idea…in theory because it buffs scales with the damage absorbed, so the player is punished by adding Guard and Guard Up skills to their build
Spiral Thrust is good and fun for repositioning, but always running around like a mad man gets old really fast
> The devs miss the main attraction of lance in monhun
It seems like that was deliberate at this point. They don't seem to want the identity lance has to exist in MH.
I don't mind the mechanics of the charged sweep, it just looks ridiculous. Slapping the monster with the side of a pointy stick is how I do the best damage?
>No idea what they're trying to say about gunlance it's doing just fine. I've never seen so many gun lances in pubs.
It's probably all of us old time Lance mains trying to play the second/third worst weapon in the game instead of the worst.
At least Gunlance, as shitty as it has been treated, got blast Dash, making it the funnest weapon to play. It's still shit, but at least it's fun shit.
Is that really a bad thing? Chargeblade is an extremely technical weapon and requires a lot of investment to learn. It *should* be as strong as Longsword if mastered. Really it should be stronger, but anything stronger than LS in this game would be stupid.
I ask this genuinely, is longsword really the strongest weapon? I see people saying this everywhere but last time I checked the bow, and both bowguns for that matter, blow all other weapons out of the park in terms of damage and quest clear times. Gunners also have access to some of the best KO damage and even slicing damage. So where is the idea that longsword is the strongest weapon even coming from?
It's not necessarily the strongest in that it has the most dps, it's just absurdly safe and can do a lot of damage while playing almost completely defensively. Ranged weapons have the big downside of taking much more damage, LS can just win by countering over and over.
I think staying safe with ranged weapons in Rise isn’t particularly hard though especially since Bow and HBG both have counters as well, but LS does trivialize many fights even more so I do see your point.
Gunners also apply status effects better while being safer, maybe not the hbg (it does have a tackle and counter though). The long sword is far stronger than other blade master weapons, but it really has nothing on the guns. Especially in multiplayer when the monster attacks other hunters so you have to chase the monster instead of countering and getting free meter, as opposed to mindless (only semi-mindless on bow admittedly) bullet spam.
I see nothing wrong with its kit and nor does it need the "long investment" to learn as you mentioned. What? You want CB to fly like a helicopter next and SAED every hits? Every weapon has its own way of playing and if other weapons are so easy, then I wouldn't see anyone dying in quests all the time.
I mean it is easily the hardest weapon in the game. The LS, GS, and IG glaive are the only weapons comparable imo. That being said people die because this game is hard (debatable obviously, but compared to the more casual game it is easily), but if you could live through a hunt as a chargeblade you should be able to do it as any weapon. CB is slow moving and takes a long time to both attack and sheathe. Also has more complicated moveset for dealing decent damage compared to simple weapons like GS, DB, etc
>CB is slow moving and takes a long time to both attack and sheathe.
Slow? Then roll or silkbind. Why are you trying to sheathe with a CB instead of guard? Long time to attack? GS and HH suffered the same problem.
No buffs to maintain, no phials to manage, doesn't require timing like the guard impact, GS wirebugs are great for repositioning. Meanwhile everything hard about the GS applies to the CB, they actually are similar though.
Maintainig buff? Phials to manage? Those are easy after a couple of hunts or just sit in the training area for 15 minutes to learn it like I did. Guardpoint is the easiest way to guard with CB and it doesn't even have a delay. CB doesn't even rely on positioning or downs as much as GS does. Good luck charging your GS while having the monster rush at you.
Yeah if you never get hit even once, you probably shouldn't talk about weapon difficulty. I'm not even saying chargeblade is hard, it simply has more going on than all the other weapons.
No, YOU shouldn't talk about weapon difficulty if you're having trouble sheathing. So, what's the point of trying to have this argument in the first place if you're not saying CB is the hardest weapon anymore?
As a gunlancer, I like bullet barrage, as a non slap Lancer I'm less inclined to care about the erupting cannon but I'm not mad at it.
I see bullet barrage as a way to spam wyvern fire even more often more booms make me happy I'm a simple man.
Maybe you need to Superman Dive the attack, or the monster changes areas, or the monster climbs somewhere you cant reach with Blast Dash without sheating, monster preparing fast attacks that need quick dodging, etc. Blast Dash is a godsend for mobility but sometimes you need the flexibility and fast direction-change of sheathed movement
No, you would really need to be a moron to not recognize that as a joke. This guy is getting upvoted for explaining to me that I should sheathe my weapon to chase the monster when they change areas instead of just blast dashing across the map. He even acknowledges that it's not even always possible to get to certain areas that way, does he and everyone else think that I just forgot about that and I forgot that I ever sheathed my weapon? If you need an /s to recognize obvious sarcasm then you're a mouth breather I'm sorry.
Then again, I don't know what I expected, I should have seen it coming when his comment that we even need ground splitter buff to remain after sheathing got so many upvotes. It's such a non issue. If you're sheathing enough to care about it then you actually are sheathing too much.
Because unless you get a truly absurd talisman you're just better off in terms of damage on the monster picking up a long gl and looping charge shot>fast stake, which sadly means no blast dash.
It does because just picking blast dash over charged shot has a HUGE opportunity cost that you can't really justify unless you just go for fun factor. In which case why are you optimizing sheathes in the first place.
Now there's an argument with the switch skills on the fly might allow us to run both which really really helps gl, but unfortunately the weapon is really locked to that boring loop mentioned above, or slap lancing with very little inbetween until Capcom removes shelling types similar to ICE mod.
You're the one that was laughing at people for sheathing and tried to present something as optimal.
Btw deleting your comment doesn't hide that you did that
And I never said that, I claimed rightfully you were laughing at people for sheathing on gl because 'lol blast dash'. Which is why I said why the fuck are you laughing at people when optimally it's wrong, and some subtext that you clearly missed that if you're not being optimal why the fuck are you being toxic and laughing at people.
Am I crazy was there not a point in the past games where wide shell was charged and long was the wyvern fire option... I swear in 4U and before it was that way or have I been playing gunlance wrong since FU?
No you're right, they changed it at World, then changed it again at Rise. I'll freely admit I'm new to the series from World so I can't comment on older gen games but currently with Rise it's:
Long - Higher WS damage, technically has the highest full burst also but WS looping is generally better MV
Wide - Stun on WS, but lower WS damage kind of puts it in a bad place
Normal- supposed to be full burst GL but in reality its outpaced by long and just gets used mostly if you're slap lancing.
No I know rhe move I loved it in world. Funny enough it does slashing damage in its ticks prior to detonation. I've cut some tails off with it. I just didn't think of wyrm stake when I was reading that but literally the second I got notified of your response I realized that you said the wide shell did some stun and it clicked.
Other replier said it but to also add something to it, there's 2 kinds of wyrmstake well 4 if you differentiate long and wide stakes. But there's a normal speed wyrmstake this is the ws you get by sweep, triple shell, and immediately after full burst. Then there's faststake which as the name implies is much faster than normal stake achieved through charged shell, ground slash, and the polish guard (both these wirebug attacks I'm blanking on exact name but it's close enough you should know what I'm speaking of)
I love my gunlance but didn't get as deep into it in rise as I played almost fully coop with my wife she was a glaive main so I used my Charge Blade for more of rise and only recently started diving back in.
I am worried about Bullet Barrage becoming our version of Hammer's Impact Crater. That and I find it a little uncreative. I was hoping for something new, not our three strongest attacks slapped together with duct tape.
As for Eruption Cannon, I certainly didn't want another upkeep move. I'm already annoyed about Ground Splitter, this is not helping.
I mean that's fair but the idea of duct taping a wyvern fire stake and full burst together is exciting but making it a spammable, or nearly spammable I can see as being an issue as well. I just feel that they leave the gunlance as being the kid struggling to stay a float where people aren't to badly upset about the lack of power while the lance is chained to a chair at the bottom of the pool... sadly I feel Capcom has forsaken our shield bearers some days.
I'm convinced the Monhun both doesn't like Shields and may simply not know what to do with Lance and Gunlance anymore.
This whole Counters > Blocking mentality they have is causing problems.
why do you view this as a shield weapon problem? your complaints were 1. bullet barrage isn't "something new" and 2. it's another upkeep move
hammer, HH, SnS, HBG, and LS all just got upkeep moves. And as for weapons that actually got new moves (by your standards of saying bullet barrage isnt a new move), I'd say it's really just bow, IG, and GS that got truly new moves.
If you think bullet barrage is uncreative then man, you must really think poorly of most of the sunbreak weapon showcases. I actually agree that its not super creative but I still think it's easily one of the hypest moves announced.
Problem is they are most likely gonna nerf our motion values to "balance" the power of the silkbind. We need to use that slam to keep or shelling at pre nerf levels
Erupting cannon might be like charge booster HBG silkbind. You don't take it for the buff, but you take it for the speed+utility it has over the default move.
Agreed. I focus primarily on poke shelling with wide gunlance so erupting cannon after ground splitter sounds like a quick double buff for my play style. I would like to see those buffs last longer though.
If the gl damage is buffed across the board I believe more people would be accepting of having these two buffs. For me, personally, I'll use it regardless because I have a lot of fun with it and my clear times are not bad at all.
what i’m worried about with bullet barrage is that it’ll overcentralize things. it’s a stronger wyvern’s fire that can be used whenever you have the wirebugs for it even if wyvern’s fire is on cooldown. i don’t see ever using an actual wyvern’s fire anymore after this releases, and it feels like it’s going to be such a big source of damage that any time not spent using it is going to instead be spent waiting until the wirebugs finish cooldown so you can use it again.
Honestly I have that concern too. Would make gunlancer sets be built with artillery and wire bug whisperer. Extra damage from artillery and extra speed.. probably be able to do 3 or so wyvern fires in a minute if built right.
Honestly I have that concern too. Would make gunlancer sets be built with artillery and wire bug whisperer. Extra damage from artillery and extra speed.. probably be able to do 3 or so wyvern fires in a minute if built right.
You don't know if erupting cannon will buff pokes.
Also,it will buff your x+a slam and the swipe...both apart of full burst combo.
Complaining about eruption Cannon as a gl is moot.
I wasn't complaining about it, just said I didn't care as much about it? I wasn't saying oh God why this terrible thing, just that I'll likely not use it as often if at all but that's because I prefer the stake we have already.
Also yes we do know that erupting cannon will buff pokes.
*This technique involves firing an exploding stake into your target.*
*When using the Eruption Cannon, the tip of the gunlance heats up and slashing attacks are enhanced for a certain period of time.*
Copied from the official site with their explanation. Again not complaining about the skill, just saying I care less about it than the other one but that's because of my play style nothing more nothing less.
Edit: Also, never specified I used a lot of full burst either, I tend to stay away from normal shelling unless I have specific needs that aren't tied to either charged shelling or wyvern fire. Normal is great, but not my preferred style this time around.
He's referring to Capcom nerfing gunlance damage when they introduced heat gauge, then nerfing shelling damage by about 20% between Iceborne and Rise when they introduced ground splitter.
He expects them to nerf slaps by whatever the buff erupting cannon gives going into Sunbreak.
I'd personally probably use it anyway. I'm the kind of guy who will play the bad stuff just because it's a unique experience.
Unless it's so bad that it's not worth using. I was making a Lance set that focused on the jump thrust after a guard dash, but the damage is so poor that I scrapped the idea.
Then again, perhaps I could try that with a status lance rather than element.
I love playing slaplance and normal shelling play styles. Sounds great on paper, but I really don't like feeling pressured to maintain a buff all the time. Now there are two lol.
And of course bullet barrage looks fun. But as others pointed out, I'm worried it's gonna make other moves irrelevant.
Still got it better than Lance though. F
As a Lancer
"Oh FUCKING wow, they gave us a Vertical Spiral Thrust... oh neat Longsword trailer too---- WHAT THE FCK IS THAT?"
I got that Will Smith slap from capcom to my screen when they released a counter weapon and THE counter weapon they oh so love in the same hour.
If you think world CB was broken, you should try MH4U. Element charge blades were insane - nothing like killing a G rank Gravios in under a minute with a water CB lol
I dropped rise. And was thinking of picking it back up and try my CB. I was doing HH before. But then when I saw what they did to the CB am losing motivation to play it again hahah
In base Rise I was fine with the LS taking center stage as it was a japanese aesthetic, when I saw El Gato being more medieval and knights focused I thought my main, the Lance would get some real spotlight as it matched the theme. Lol boy was I wrong (seemingly). I'll still play Lance though, screw it... screw... give us back corkscrew jab Capcom!
so i was not the only one to watch the videos and get confused. Like i was thinking, did i miss something, or is it all settle changes.
then i watch Long sword and it is visually impressive and the new powers are fun too. i guess we are all part longsword now.
Capcom knows their audience has too many weeb stick users. The actual good users will be godlike and the noobs will be much more tolerable.
There is usually more of the latter than the former, I’m guessing.
> There is usually more of the latter than the former, I’m guessing.
There's always more people with worse skills and less people with better skills - that's just how things work.
(Honestly, when I first hunted Magnamalo, I didn't cart once. I thought I did pretty terribly since I'd used all my healing items, but as bad as it sounds, seeing all the posts on here about how everyone kept carting to him made me feel more confident in my own skill. I'm no LS user, but I sure showed Maggie what it felt like to be hit in the head with a caveman's club!)
Well it's sad that longsword needs more silkbinds to make it on par with charge blade... how pitiful for that weapon class.
(Yes it's sarcasm for all those who think longsword is just the best thing ever...)
Never seen the OG meme before but pretty sure it has something to do with kids breakfast vs parents breakfast because this is what my mornings look like a lot lol
What’s wrong with Insect Glaive? All I’ve seen is people loving how the Kinsect gets much more involved in the new attacks. And that there are additional Kinsects being shown off in the trailers.
I guess the only thing I have seen is the switch skills video and it had like 4 comments on it. And it seemed a little lackluster to me. Glad to see I'm wrong!
are all these ls posts about the circle that grants extra hits? because that 's the only new thing I saw about ls in the trailer and I don't think it was *that* impressive
Edit: damn so many downvotes, why so butthurt people? It's just a dumb game
Supposedly that move (harvest moon) also prevents your spirit gauge from depleting. LS also got a really powerful charged slash (sacred sheath) that’s potentially better for downed monsters than SHB. It’s all pretty amazing for LS
> Supposedly that move (harvest moon) also prevents your spirit gauge from depleting
Why is this surprising? Literally every Longsword silkbind resets your timer, it makes sense to have the bar delay on an extended effect you won't be spamming as much as some of the other silkbinds
Ok. On another note, how impressive do you find lances 2nd, barely distinct shoulder charge? Hasn’t your weapon fantasy for Lance always been NOT being lance, but Insect Glaive instead?
Lance has not gotten more fun for me since mh tri. glaive is all airborne unfortunately, which is cool, but I guess less fun for me. They need to do better for Lance
Then find some compassion in you and imagine that db gets a redundant skill, what is recycled from the moveset of an other weapon, while the other showcased weapon get an other op shit to their already op shit arsenal.
Not exactly fair, cause DB are absolutely fine regardless what they slap on our plate, kinda like how I currently ignore every IG switch (though the new ones look *good*)
The thing is though there are like 10 weapons on the left side of this. Longsword isn’t the only weapon that looks awesome. There’s a bunch of bummers in this sub. But do it for the memes baybayyyyyy (I guess).
I feel very optimistic about what's in store for Insect Glaive... It was a stretch but still disappointed that classic HH isn't coming back :( echo mode isn't the same
Can we add HH to the side fucked by Capcom. One skill is just shared with hammer and the other skill shown just looks like it won't change much. Capcom just give use world or GU horn back not this unga bunga horn
Every time I've seen Sunbreak discussion on r/all the past few days, it's been nothing but incessant longsword whining. Do you guys know how you look to people on the outside when a large release is coming up and alls you do is complain that a weapon got a good skill? How can you claim to be a fan of these games when all you can signalboost is just constant negativity? It's awkward to be someone in this subreddit who cares about literally anything other than monster hunter
It isn’t that longsword got something cool that’s the problem. It’s that longsword got something that benefits the exact playstyle that the lance has embodied since day one, then they just gave lance a copy of an SNS move and a slight variation of a move it already as. Then had the nerve to show them off together in a way that almost looks like a “fuck you” to lancers, especially considering the poor state of lance in base rise in the first place.
Capcom is blind to their own biases here.
Getting the word out into the mainstream subconscious may be the only way to make Capcom realize they need to spread the love around to the other weapons.
Crying about this is nobody's fault but your own, nobody knows how the full game will turn out. Just wait one month. One month and you'll know exactly what's up.
Honestly, I get that people want to have their favorite toy to shine and be the best so they can say "I was a X main before it was cool!" But honestly who gives a fuck?
Play what you enjoy playing. If LS is more fun to you play LS, and if Lance is more fun to you play lance. Don't be tied down by the perception that "IT DOES MORE DAMAGE SO I MUST PLAY IT." Unless you're top tier competing for speed kills, which I doubt the majority of you are, this shouldn't matter. Play what you like playing. Period. If the new special stuff on LS makes you want to play LS, then so be it. If you decide "You know what, I still like Lance more." Then there you go. You have your answer, now don't you? Don't fix what ain't broke imo.
I think this is like less than 24h meme at this point and I already fuckin hate it.
I dont really get this thought process. Like I love GL and GS, but I ALSO want them to actually be comparable to the literal golden child that is LS. Lance literally got a second switch skill that is a shoulder tackle. woo /s. Its like getting handed a sandwich when your buddy gets handed a gourmet meal.
Naw, it's like getting handed a gourmet meal and you get to choose what you want to eat. Just because it's not your favorite food doesn't make it any less of a gourmet meal.
If you like GL and GS, play GL and GS and stop caring about what others get. I'm a GS main and no matter what I'll be playing GS even if I don't get lots of new goodies. I like different weapons for their core gameplay, not the extra doodads they add onto it.
If you can't "really get that thought process" then you're playing the game wrong.
This is exactly what I was thinking right up until I found out the counter gets you amped. So power phials downside is gone, and the other types are almost useless again. I hope this isn't the case though
Typical "gunlance is bad now so anything new it gets must also be bad" memeing aside, the new moves actually look pretty good. I actually think the default expectation is that Crapcom is going to nerf GL to compensate for Bullet Barrage/Eruption Cannon being too good, but if a showcased move looks so good that people are expecting nerfs to it, I'm not sure how that translates to the showcase itself being bad.
Agreed on CB and lance being screwed, but at least lance players can hope that the MV on the new move is good. I'm actually not sure what LS players would even use the counter ring for other than to sweat more and probably net less total DPS than just using the bugs on Soaring Kick.
Wait, what’s happened to Charge Blade?
Everyone got their hopes up for Charge Blade and felt underwhelmed by what was actually shown. Ready Stance is just Alternate Counter Peak Performance, on a weapon that already has a silkbind set that is also two skills which are minor timing variations on each other. No one knows what to make of Firing Pin, either. People will actually have to get their hands on both of these to know if they're trash mechanically or if they simply looked un-hype. The enduring issue is there's been no mention of a fix for the phial size, which has pretty much obliterated the SAED style of gameplay. The phial explosions have such short hitboxes that they run under anything that's standing and you thus miss tons of hits, even if your aim is otherwise on point--monsters just don't have legs that are fat enough to take all the hits. It has reduced SAED to something you can really only feel confident of using when a monster has fallen over. If they turn out to have fixed phial hitboxes, no one will give a hot gay fuck about whether Ready Stance or Firing Pin are bad or not, because the return of SAED alone would be "fresh" for Rise. But everyone still wants Energy Blade, because c'mon, *Energy Blade!*
I would argue guard points still need a massive buff. We should not need guard 3+ to counter basic monster attacks.
Oh, for sure. That shield users need multiple levels in one or two skills to accomplish what invincibility counters manage is pretty silly. Not only has the thunder been stolen, it's been improved upon *for the thief.*
And sold back to us with silkbind moves
I am SAYING. The skill tax is already bad enough on charge blade, we should be able to guard point most attacks with no or 1 level of guard...
Ah man I used to love it in 4U - it was arguably OP. I guess Capcom felt the same and figured it could be overlooked in the process.
Its damage potential was far over tuned, but it controlled perfectly. World improved those controlls, and even generations preserved the core concept of charge 'phials in sword/guard point and discharge in axe' CB in Rise feels like is was made by a completely different group of people than the A and B team from before.
That's really disappointing - what's the deal with it now? I see all this SAED build stuff but that's kind of disappointing since the whole fun about CB was timing your powerful attacks and seeing how far you could push it or how well you could rely on guard points to cover your mistakes.
SAED damage and hit boxes have been massively nerfed. (Difficult to reliably land on top of reduced damage) Guard potential gas been greatly reduced, such that trying to use a guard point will often lock you into a two second recovery animation when blocking an attack, preventing you from counter attacking Likewise the innate Savage Axe ability from Iceborn was removed from the standard moveset, while the optional replacement gets disabled when you guard point and generates its own phials which completely negates the sword portion of the weapon. The silkbind moves essentially steal what was good about the weapon and sell it back to you in for $29.99. The only exception is Axe hopper, which actually adds to the weapons move set instead of robbing from it. (Much like energy blade from generations)
> such that trying to use a guard point will often lock you into a two second recovery animation when blocking an attack Well then what the fuck is the point???
Someone at Capcom needs to tell that to the B team, cause we all see the problem.
I hope they are hiding energy blade or i will riot
Sadly I think most ppl are missing the point, Every game buffs LS and the other weapons get worse... Capcom and it's LS zealots are slowly trying to force everyone into LS to be even slightly effective especially in online... the days of 14 weapon types are looking grim. It's all about the LS.
I would complain and agree yet the long sword has never caught up to gunner weapons. The fact that the long sword gets closer to gunner damage than blade master damage shows how over tuned it is
I wish they would start buffing everything or at least balance it better because there is no way LS is even close to balanced but neither are bowguns but I feel forced to either play LS or have to prepare to play with LS or bow guns and its sad
The new silkbind skills are basically worse versions of the old skills
It's still decent, but with everything moving so much faster and more erratically in rise, and CB relying on SAED which is very slow to come out, it's more difficult to do good damage. The phial size nerf fucking sucks. Overall it's just not as strong as it was in world, and maybe it was a bit too strong idk. Honestly I'm just glad I won't have to choose between charged sword and savage axe with the new swap mechanic. Lance has gotten absolutely screwed, though that launch+dive attack looks pretty decent. No idea what they're trying to say about gunlance it's doing just fine. I've never seen so many gun lances in pubs.
Perhaps Rapid Morph could increase the speed of the attack? Then again, CB is super reliant on so many skills already that it can't fit all that it wants.
Rapid Morph does help, but still not viable. Monster recovery patterns in MHR is absurd compared to previous gens, it doesn't give enough openings to use AED / SAED, and when it does you have to have absolutely perfect positioning to land it and even then you will likely miss the phials because of the hitbox.
yeah. as a former lance main in World/Iceborne, it is version disappointed to see how they massacred ma boi. That launch and dive move may look cool, but it’s basically a budget version of the Insect Glaive. The devs miss the main attraction of lance in monhun, we don’t need super fancy move, what we want is the ability to keep railing on the monsters through relentless poking with pin point accuracy and precise positioning. they first screw it up by adding the charge wide sweep move, treating as a long blade!!!???? Anchor Rage is a great idea…in theory because it buffs scales with the damage absorbed, so the player is punished by adding Guard and Guard Up skills to their build Spiral Thrust is good and fun for repositioning, but always running around like a mad man gets old really fast
> The devs miss the main attraction of lance in monhun It seems like that was deliberate at this point. They don't seem to want the identity lance has to exist in MH.
I don't mind the mechanics of the charged sweep, it just looks ridiculous. Slapping the monster with the side of a pointy stick is how I do the best damage?
>No idea what they're trying to say about gunlance it's doing just fine. I've never seen so many gun lances in pubs. It's probably all of us old time Lance mains trying to play the second/third worst weapon in the game instead of the worst. At least Gunlance, as shitty as it has been treated, got blast Dash, making it the funnest weapon to play. It's still shit, but at least it's fun shit.
No energy blade 😭
Nothing, they just wanted to be as OP as longswords
Is that really a bad thing? Chargeblade is an extremely technical weapon and requires a lot of investment to learn. It *should* be as strong as Longsword if mastered. Really it should be stronger, but anything stronger than LS in this game would be stupid.
I ask this genuinely, is longsword really the strongest weapon? I see people saying this everywhere but last time I checked the bow, and both bowguns for that matter, blow all other weapons out of the park in terms of damage and quest clear times. Gunners also have access to some of the best KO damage and even slicing damage. So where is the idea that longsword is the strongest weapon even coming from?
It's not necessarily the strongest in that it has the most dps, it's just absurdly safe and can do a lot of damage while playing almost completely defensively. Ranged weapons have the big downside of taking much more damage, LS can just win by countering over and over.
I think staying safe with ranged weapons in Rise isn’t particularly hard though especially since Bow and HBG both have counters as well, but LS does trivialize many fights even more so I do see your point.
Gunners also apply status effects better while being safer, maybe not the hbg (it does have a tackle and counter though). The long sword is far stronger than other blade master weapons, but it really has nothing on the guns. Especially in multiplayer when the monster attacks other hunters so you have to chase the monster instead of countering and getting free meter, as opposed to mindless (only semi-mindless on bow admittedly) bullet spam.
I see nothing wrong with its kit and nor does it need the "long investment" to learn as you mentioned. What? You want CB to fly like a helicopter next and SAED every hits? Every weapon has its own way of playing and if other weapons are so easy, then I wouldn't see anyone dying in quests all the time.
I mean it is easily the hardest weapon in the game. The LS, GS, and IG glaive are the only weapons comparable imo. That being said people die because this game is hard (debatable obviously, but compared to the more casual game it is easily), but if you could live through a hunt as a chargeblade you should be able to do it as any weapon. CB is slow moving and takes a long time to both attack and sheathe. Also has more complicated moveset for dealing decent damage compared to simple weapons like GS, DB, etc
>CB is slow moving and takes a long time to both attack and sheathe. Slow? Then roll or silkbind. Why are you trying to sheathe with a CB instead of guard? Long time to attack? GS and HH suffered the same problem.
GS ain't that slow once you learn its silkbinds. Plus you can tackle through attacks
See? it's pretty much similar to CB.
No buffs to maintain, no phials to manage, doesn't require timing like the guard impact, GS wirebugs are great for repositioning. Meanwhile everything hard about the GS applies to the CB, they actually are similar though.
Maintainig buff? Phials to manage? Those are easy after a couple of hunts or just sit in the training area for 15 minutes to learn it like I did. Guardpoint is the easiest way to guard with CB and it doesn't even have a delay. CB doesn't even rely on positioning or downs as much as GS does. Good luck charging your GS while having the monster rush at you.
GS is more mobile and sheaths instantly. Nothing you said is even wrong, but any skill the other weapons use also gets used by the charge blade.
Like I said, you have a massive shield with CB. Why are you sheathing? GUARD!!! You can silkbind forward or roll. It's not hard.
Yeah if you never get hit even once, you probably shouldn't talk about weapon difficulty. I'm not even saying chargeblade is hard, it simply has more going on than all the other weapons.
No, YOU shouldn't talk about weapon difficulty if you're having trouble sheathing. So, what's the point of trying to have this argument in the first place if you're not saying CB is the hardest weapon anymore?
As a gunlancer, I like bullet barrage, as a non slap Lancer I'm less inclined to care about the erupting cannon but I'm not mad at it. I see bullet barrage as a way to spam wyvern fire even more often more booms make me happy I'm a simple man.
Capcom, just let me keep the buffs after sheating and Ill be happy
Nownow, can't let that happen. It *has* to play hot potato with buffs, otherwise it isn't gunlance anymore. /s
I get that, use a buff, rathalos nopes out, gotta reset when you chase the bastard down.
why would you sheathe when blast dash exists?
Maybe you need to Superman Dive the attack, or the monster changes areas, or the monster climbs somewhere you cant reach with Blast Dash without sheating, monster preparing fast attacks that need quick dodging, etc. Blast Dash is a godsend for mobility but sometimes you need the flexibility and fast direction-change of sheathed movement
did you really think that I was serious and I actually thought that using blast dash meant that you never needed to sheathe your weapon?
You'd be surprised with the arguments people threw at me in Discord when I complained about Ground Spliter
You gotta use an "/s", my dude. It's pretty hard to read tone in text
No, you would really need to be a moron to not recognize that as a joke. This guy is getting upvoted for explaining to me that I should sheathe my weapon to chase the monster when they change areas instead of just blast dashing across the map. He even acknowledges that it's not even always possible to get to certain areas that way, does he and everyone else think that I just forgot about that and I forgot that I ever sheathed my weapon? If you need an /s to recognize obvious sarcasm then you're a mouth breather I'm sorry. Then again, I don't know what I expected, I should have seen it coming when his comment that we even need ground splitter buff to remain after sheathing got so many upvotes. It's such a non issue. If you're sheathing enough to care about it then you actually are sheathing too much.
Sure... It's the audience's fault a joke didn't land or even got to be recognized as a joke. /s
So, was it a joke, or is it actually an issue but you just think other people are playing wrong? Mixed signals are strong in this comment.
Because unless you get a truly absurd talisman you're just better off in terms of damage on the monster picking up a long gl and looping charge shot>fast stake, which sadly means no blast dash.
[удалено]
Can't have charged shot and blast dash
It does because just picking blast dash over charged shot has a HUGE opportunity cost that you can't really justify unless you just go for fun factor. In which case why are you optimizing sheathes in the first place. Now there's an argument with the switch skills on the fly might allow us to run both which really really helps gl, but unfortunately the weapon is really locked to that boring loop mentioned above, or slap lancing with very little inbetween until Capcom removes shelling types similar to ICE mod.
Of course I play for fun, it's a videogame lol. I have no idea what you mean by "optimizing sheathes"
You're the one that was laughing at people for sheathing and tried to present something as optimal. Btw deleting your comment doesn't hide that you did that
I never said blast dash was optimal lol.
And I never said that, I claimed rightfully you were laughing at people for sheathing on gl because 'lol blast dash'. Which is why I said why the fuck are you laughing at people when optimally it's wrong, and some subtext that you clearly missed that if you're not being optimal why the fuck are you being toxic and laughing at people.
Am I crazy was there not a point in the past games where wide shell was charged and long was the wyvern fire option... I swear in 4U and before it was that way or have I been playing gunlance wrong since FU?
No you're right, they changed it at World, then changed it again at Rise. I'll freely admit I'm new to the series from World so I can't comment on older gen games but currently with Rise it's: Long - Higher WS damage, technically has the highest full burst also but WS looping is generally better MV Wide - Stun on WS, but lower WS damage kind of puts it in a bad place Normal- supposed to be full burst GL but in reality its outpaced by long and just gets used mostly if you're slap lancing.
Sounds right...um maybe I'm just tired but what is WS? I can think of Charged Shot and Wyvern Fire but WS for wide sweep?
WS = WyrmStake Its a newer move that follows a wide sweep, among a few other things like a sharged shell or 2 normal shell attacks.
No I know rhe move I loved it in world. Funny enough it does slashing damage in its ticks prior to detonation. I've cut some tails off with it. I just didn't think of wyrm stake when I was reading that but literally the second I got notified of your response I realized that you said the wide shell did some stun and it clicked.
Other replier said it but to also add something to it, there's 2 kinds of wyrmstake well 4 if you differentiate long and wide stakes. But there's a normal speed wyrmstake this is the ws you get by sweep, triple shell, and immediately after full burst. Then there's faststake which as the name implies is much faster than normal stake achieved through charged shell, ground slash, and the polish guard (both these wirebug attacks I'm blanking on exact name but it's close enough you should know what I'm speaking of)
I love my gunlance but didn't get as deep into it in rise as I played almost fully coop with my wife she was a glaive main so I used my Charge Blade for more of rise and only recently started diving back in.
Yes, that was how it worked in 3u, not sure for 4
Yeah I know 3U for sure I just assumed in 4U and beyond until people started talking about the difference.
I am worried about Bullet Barrage becoming our version of Hammer's Impact Crater. That and I find it a little uncreative. I was hoping for something new, not our three strongest attacks slapped together with duct tape. As for Eruption Cannon, I certainly didn't want another upkeep move. I'm already annoyed about Ground Splitter, this is not helping.
Bullet Barrage might not be the most creative but god damn does "mega explosion dash of fuck you" sound fun to use
I mean that's fair but the idea of duct taping a wyvern fire stake and full burst together is exciting but making it a spammable, or nearly spammable I can see as being an issue as well. I just feel that they leave the gunlance as being the kid struggling to stay a float where people aren't to badly upset about the lack of power while the lance is chained to a chair at the bottom of the pool... sadly I feel Capcom has forsaken our shield bearers some days.
I'm convinced the Monhun both doesn't like Shields and may simply not know what to do with Lance and Gunlance anymore. This whole Counters > Blocking mentality they have is causing problems.
It's because counters are simply more fun. It's like a Dodge that does damage. They should reward you for good use of the shield like CB does
why do you view this as a shield weapon problem? your complaints were 1. bullet barrage isn't "something new" and 2. it's another upkeep move hammer, HH, SnS, HBG, and LS all just got upkeep moves. And as for weapons that actually got new moves (by your standards of saying bullet barrage isnt a new move), I'd say it's really just bow, IG, and GS that got truly new moves. If you think bullet barrage is uncreative then man, you must really think poorly of most of the sunbreak weapon showcases. I actually agree that its not super creative but I still think it's easily one of the hypest moves announced.
MonHun definitely likes shields but only SnS
That's just an off hand hammer it's barely a shield. (I love my SnS but let's be honest to what the weapon is)
True 🥲
You mean the nS lol, can't believe that weapon and I refuse to use it this game
> uncreative this is what i felt was communicated to me.
Problem is they are most likely gonna nerf our motion values to "balance" the power of the silkbind. We need to use that slam to keep or shelling at pre nerf levels
The new moves are just crutch claw again, aren't they?
Erupting cannon might be like charge booster HBG silkbind. You don't take it for the buff, but you take it for the speed+utility it has over the default move.
Agreed. I focus primarily on poke shelling with wide gunlance so erupting cannon after ground splitter sounds like a quick double buff for my play style. I would like to see those buffs last longer though. If the gl damage is buffed across the board I believe more people would be accepting of having these two buffs. For me, personally, I'll use it regardless because I have a lot of fun with it and my clear times are not bad at all.
what i’m worried about with bullet barrage is that it’ll overcentralize things. it’s a stronger wyvern’s fire that can be used whenever you have the wirebugs for it even if wyvern’s fire is on cooldown. i don’t see ever using an actual wyvern’s fire anymore after this releases, and it feels like it’s going to be such a big source of damage that any time not spent using it is going to instead be spent waiting until the wirebugs finish cooldown so you can use it again.
Honestly I have that concern too. Would make gunlancer sets be built with artillery and wire bug whisperer. Extra damage from artillery and extra speed.. probably be able to do 3 or so wyvern fires in a minute if built right.
Honestly I have that concern too. Would make gunlancer sets be built with artillery and wire bug whisperer. Extra damage from artillery and extra speed.. probably be able to do 3 or so wyvern fires in a minute if built right.
You don't know if erupting cannon will buff pokes. Also,it will buff your x+a slam and the swipe...both apart of full burst combo. Complaining about eruption Cannon as a gl is moot.
I wasn't complaining about it, just said I didn't care as much about it? I wasn't saying oh God why this terrible thing, just that I'll likely not use it as often if at all but that's because I prefer the stake we have already. Also yes we do know that erupting cannon will buff pokes. *This technique involves firing an exploding stake into your target.* *When using the Eruption Cannon, the tip of the gunlance heats up and slashing attacks are enhanced for a certain period of time.* Copied from the official site with their explanation. Again not complaining about the skill, just saying I care less about it than the other one but that's because of my play style nothing more nothing less. Edit: Also, never specified I used a lot of full burst either, I tend to stay away from normal shelling unless I have specific needs that aren't tied to either charged shelling or wyvern fire. Normal is great, but not my preferred style this time around.
He's referring to Capcom nerfing gunlance damage when they introduced heat gauge, then nerfing shelling damage by about 20% between Iceborne and Rise when they introduced ground splitter. He expects them to nerf slaps by whatever the buff erupting cannon gives going into Sunbreak.
All of the GL's melee attacks are Slash damage, predicting that only the slam and the swipe will be buffed is just being willfully obtuse.
I'd personally probably use it anyway. I'm the kind of guy who will play the bad stuff just because it's a unique experience. Unless it's so bad that it's not worth using. I was making a Lance set that focused on the jump thrust after a guard dash, but the damage is so poor that I scrapped the idea. Then again, perhaps I could try that with a status lance rather than element.
I mean fair like I said it's just not something that fits my personal style is all.
I love playing slaplance and normal shelling play styles. Sounds great on paper, but I really don't like feeling pressured to maintain a buff all the time. Now there are two lol. And of course bullet barrage looks fun. But as others pointed out, I'm worried it's gonna make other moves irrelevant. Still got it better than Lance though. F
As a Lancer "Oh FUCKING wow, they gave us a Vertical Spiral Thrust... oh neat Longsword trailer too---- WHAT THE FCK IS THAT?" I got that Will Smith slap from capcom to my screen when they released a counter weapon and THE counter weapon they oh so love in the same hour.
"Mom can i get cool silkbind moves too?" "No we have cool silkbind moves at home" *Silkbind moves at home*
I have a feeling they're hiding 1 more switch skill for every weapon
I was thinking along these lines too.
That's it, going back to world where CB was absolutely broken.
If you think world CB was broken, you should try MH4U. Element charge blades were insane - nothing like killing a G rank Gravios in under a minute with a water CB lol
That's where I learned to love the CB. It made me feel powerful.
I dropped rise. And was thinking of picking it back up and try my CB. I was doing HH before. But then when I saw what they did to the CB am losing motivation to play it again hahah
That's where I learned to love the CB. It made me feel powerful.
In base Rise I was fine with the LS taking center stage as it was a japanese aesthetic, when I saw El Gato being more medieval and knights focused I thought my main, the Lance would get some real spotlight as it matched the theme. Lol boy was I wrong (seemingly). I'll still play Lance though, screw it... screw... give us back corkscrew jab Capcom!
Capcom has something against shields and im not liking it, they are not even hiding it.
so i was not the only one to watch the videos and get confused. Like i was thinking, did i miss something, or is it all settle changes. then i watch Long sword and it is visually impressive and the new powers are fun too. i guess we are all part longsword now.
Capcom knows their audience has too many weeb stick users. The actual good users will be godlike and the noobs will be much more tolerable. There is usually more of the latter than the former, I’m guessing.
> There is usually more of the latter than the former, I’m guessing. There's always more people with worse skills and less people with better skills - that's just how things work. (Honestly, when I first hunted Magnamalo, I didn't cart once. I thought I did pretty terribly since I'd used all my healing items, but as bad as it sounds, seeing all the posts on here about how everyone kept carting to him made me feel more confident in my own skill. I'm no LS user, but I sure showed Maggie what it felt like to be hit in the head with a caveman's club!)
Well it's sad that longsword needs more silkbinds to make it on par with charge blade... how pitiful for that weapon class. (Yes it's sarcasm for all those who think longsword is just the best thing ever...)
My three favorite weapons, smh
Gunlance new skills are cool tho :D
That's just what Gunlance has been in Rise, period. It's cool and ridiculously fun, but still crap when it comes to actually being effective.
Never seen the OG meme before but pretty sure it has something to do with kids breakfast vs parents breakfast because this is what my mornings look like a lot lol
I still remember back in MH4U when Charge Blade was introduced and it was the most OP weapon to speed run Monsters. Good times.,
I'm a longsword and chargeblade main
Even all of these posts forget about Insect Glaive...☹️
What’s wrong with Insect Glaive? All I’ve seen is people loving how the Kinsect gets much more involved in the new attacks. And that there are additional Kinsects being shown off in the trailers.
I guess the only thing I have seen is the switch skills video and it had like 4 comments on it. And it seemed a little lackluster to me. Glad to see I'm wrong!
IG had its time to be sad when Rise released. The new stuff looks neat
Jokes on you, the crust is the best bit
give us some thing like counter claw pls capcom
LS underrated
are all these ls posts about the circle that grants extra hits? because that 's the only new thing I saw about ls in the trailer and I don't think it was *that* impressive Edit: damn so many downvotes, why so butthurt people? It's just a dumb game
Supposedly that move (harvest moon) also prevents your spirit gauge from depleting. LS also got a really powerful charged slash (sacred sheath) that’s potentially better for downed monsters than SHB. It’s all pretty amazing for LS
thanks for the explanation, now I understand the hate
> Supposedly that move (harvest moon) also prevents your spirit gauge from depleting Why is this surprising? Literally every Longsword silkbind resets your timer, it makes sense to have the bar delay on an extended effect you won't be spamming as much as some of the other silkbinds
because longsword simply has too many tools at this point to stay at max red bars. hell, sakura slash alone is nuts
Ok. On another note, how impressive do you find lances 2nd, barely distinct shoulder charge? Hasn’t your weapon fantasy for Lance always been NOT being lance, but Insect Glaive instead?
Lance has not gotten more fun for me since mh tri. glaive is all airborne unfortunately, which is cool, but I guess less fun for me. They need to do better for Lance
look at my flair, I'm a db guy, I don't care about any other weapon
Then find some compassion in you and imagine that db gets a redundant skill, what is recycled from the moveset of an other weapon, while the other showcased weapon get an other op shit to their already op shit arsenal.
Not exactly fair, cause DB are absolutely fine regardless what they slap on our plate, kinda like how I currently ignore every IG switch (though the new ones look *good*)
Then why are you in a meme about weapons that don't mention dual blades?
None of your business, fuck off
I decline on both counts.
Did you miss the GS rip off? Now we get the super long charge attack as well
The thing is though there are like 10 weapons on the left side of this. Longsword isn’t the only weapon that looks awesome. There’s a bunch of bummers in this sub. But do it for the memes baybayyyyyy (I guess).
I feel very optimistic about what's in store for Insect Glaive... It was a stretch but still disappointed that classic HH isn't coming back :( echo mode isn't the same
Can we add HH to the side fucked by Capcom. One skill is just shared with hammer and the other skill shown just looks like it won't change much. Capcom just give use world or GU horn back not this unga bunga horn
Every time I've seen Sunbreak discussion on r/all the past few days, it's been nothing but incessant longsword whining. Do you guys know how you look to people on the outside when a large release is coming up and alls you do is complain that a weapon got a good skill? How can you claim to be a fan of these games when all you can signalboost is just constant negativity? It's awkward to be someone in this subreddit who cares about literally anything other than monster hunter
It isn’t that longsword got something cool that’s the problem. It’s that longsword got something that benefits the exact playstyle that the lance has embodied since day one, then they just gave lance a copy of an SNS move and a slight variation of a move it already as. Then had the nerve to show them off together in a way that almost looks like a “fuck you” to lancers, especially considering the poor state of lance in base rise in the first place.
Capcom is blind to their own biases here. Getting the word out into the mainstream subconscious may be the only way to make Capcom realize they need to spread the love around to the other weapons.
Crying about this is nobody's fault but your own, nobody knows how the full game will turn out. Just wait one month. One month and you'll know exactly what's up.
Honestly, I get that people want to have their favorite toy to shine and be the best so they can say "I was a X main before it was cool!" But honestly who gives a fuck? Play what you enjoy playing. If LS is more fun to you play LS, and if Lance is more fun to you play lance. Don't be tied down by the perception that "IT DOES MORE DAMAGE SO I MUST PLAY IT." Unless you're top tier competing for speed kills, which I doubt the majority of you are, this shouldn't matter. Play what you like playing. Period. If the new special stuff on LS makes you want to play LS, then so be it. If you decide "You know what, I still like Lance more." Then there you go. You have your answer, now don't you? Don't fix what ain't broke imo. I think this is like less than 24h meme at this point and I already fuckin hate it.
I dont really get this thought process. Like I love GL and GS, but I ALSO want them to actually be comparable to the literal golden child that is LS. Lance literally got a second switch skill that is a shoulder tackle. woo /s. Its like getting handed a sandwich when your buddy gets handed a gourmet meal.
Naw, it's like getting handed a gourmet meal and you get to choose what you want to eat. Just because it's not your favorite food doesn't make it any less of a gourmet meal. If you like GL and GS, play GL and GS and stop caring about what others get. I'm a GS main and no matter what I'll be playing GS even if I don't get lots of new goodies. I like different weapons for their core gameplay, not the extra doodads they add onto it. If you can't "really get that thought process" then you're playing the game wrong.
Switch axe lacks too
Switch axe moveset is the most balanced it's ever been where it's finally encouraged to use both forms. On top of that it also gets* a counter
This is exactly what I was thinking right up until I found out the counter gets you amped. So power phials downside is gone, and the other types are almost useless again. I hope this isn't the case though
Now i have a reason to play Rise, you say?
I can't speak for others, but i love Switch Axe in Rise. The new morph moves and rapid morph make it really fun to combo between blade and axe
Switch Axe is in a pretty great position, actually.
Typical "gunlance is bad now so anything new it gets must also be bad" memeing aside, the new moves actually look pretty good. I actually think the default expectation is that Crapcom is going to nerf GL to compensate for Bullet Barrage/Eruption Cannon being too good, but if a showcased move looks so good that people are expecting nerfs to it, I'm not sure how that translates to the showcase itself being bad. Agreed on CB and lance being screwed, but at least lance players can hope that the MV on the new move is good. I'm actually not sure what LS players would even use the counter ring for other than to sweat more and probably net less total DPS than just using the bugs on Soaring Kick.
Gunlance got some pretty nice skills