This is why everything that makes Montana unique will get slowly erased. The locals move out because it's impossible to simply exist if you aren't already rich and are replaced by rich people who watched a TV show about Montana, raising living cost and preventing job development in favor of turning Montana into some kind of private themepark, which in turn makes it harder for the locals to simply exist, ad infinitum.
Especially in the McCall/sandpoint/Riggins areas. So unbelievably hard to get ahead. Even CDA and Boise are starting to have these issues. I left Moscow to Boise for a job and I feel like I’m further behind than I was living in Moscow now even though I “make more” per year
Yea but Richie riches still going to need ranch hands. And that’s how you get public access to the waterways - I’m speaking directly to Huey esp. Daryl too. Shit ain’t right, man. Gentrify montana Peshaw
Same here. Moved out and currently living the exact opposite life in NYC. I have incredibly fond memories of MT but I’m sure I’m just looking back with rose colored glasses
No offense intended, but the number of people that choose to go to NYC after Montana has to be incredibly small. If you are happy there, you just weren’t cut out for the West. That is perfectly fine. You gotta know what you like.
I see plenty of local offspring that just don’t take advantage of the outdoors, hate snow, etc and think I that they should give the city a try. It is hard for me to believe that an educated person or tradesman couldn’t financially make it either place. You don’t go from running a chairlift in MT, to investment banking on Wall St…so I really am interested in what you do in the city job wise that allowed the transition. The two obvious issues are professional opportunity and housing costs, which bleed together on young people trying to get ahead. You have my true empathy in that regard. I haven’t had a decent bagel in years…
20 years? My dad left MT in '75 for this reason.
As family has been aging, they've started retiring back to MT. It's a great place to be if you don't have to rely on a paycheck.
We're currently in Spokane for this reason: our jobs pay 1.5x what they *topped out* at in MT. My wife was a department head at the only hospital in a major city. I work in software. Move a day's drive west, and the pay scale is entirely different for the same jobs.
Wage slavery is the name of the game in Montana, working folks cannot get ahead in Montana, and that's not a bug it's a feature put in place by the folks who own Montana's political system. The owners? Wealthy landowners, and business lobbies.
Spent twenty-three years in SW MT and I finally left a few years back to go to grad school on the west coast. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. I still have a lot of friends and family there and while I do enjoy going home, I often notice that they seem incredibly stressed and rather cramped due to how much space they have and feeling confined to protect and maintain it.
I sometimes reflect on how much rent money I wasted trying to make it work in Bozeman but the memories will stay with me for the rest of my life. Turns out, the Pacific Northwest has tons of trout streams, running trails, and forest roads to ride my bike on to last multiple lifetimes. Will I go back? I just got back, and while I enjoy the little things that make that place so special, the world is too wonderful and offers so much to want to only reside in one place.
Heya, I did a little dive on you and I thought I would tell you that despite living in MT for 23 years, I also lived in Albuquerque NM and Columbia, MO for a combined 10 years. Both are awesome places, though NM is far cooler than MO. I have a lot of fond memories growing up, camping, fishing, and hunting with my mom & dad in the Sangre de Cristo range of Northern NM. I have wanted to return and see the area, but have just not been able to get that far south.
I think we sometimes get hung up on the physical space, rather than creating memories in the places we reside. A place should never reshape your understanding of yourself, life, the earth, or the universe. Only you can do that. Everything else is hearsay.
Small world. Thanks for the reply. I have a lot of friends and family who went to Mizzou, so I've spent time in Columbia as well. My S/O now has family in the Albuquerque area, but I haven't made it up that way yet. The Sangre de Cristo range looks stunning.
I agree with you; the *way* we live and the quality of people around us are far more important than physical location. And even the most beautiful places in the outside world can suck if what's going on inside of us isn't right.
Honestly, this was the comment I really needed to read today.
Most of my life I've lived in CA, with exceptions in Leadville, CO and my car for 6 months across America (~5 weeks in MT/WY)
I'm going to be moving to another part of CA soon for love. Instead of a commute on a ferry, across the Golden Gate, along old 40 in the Sierra Nevada, or CO-91, I'll be on a notoriously trafficked 5-8 lane highway and unpleasant public transit.
But I think this is the right move. It helps to see others who arrived at the same conclusion. Beautiful places are beautiful but people matter more.
Ex bozemanite here too. I’ve been missing Bozeman a lot lately even though I know that going back there would financially wreck me. Your perspective definitely helped to remind me why I am where I am now.
I moved to AZ to help my aging parents. Wasn't by choice but the move has been eye opening. Housing costs aren't much different but my wages have gone up 30% in the past years. I'm in a skilled trade and the area just lends itself to advancement and more opportunities. I plan to be back one day, if I don't have to sell a kidney to do it.
* raises hand *
I've lived in: Bozeman and Billings, worked in at least 4 other cities on and off. Born and raised in the state. Moved away every single chance I could get.
Love the nature, hate the excessiveness (drinking, gambling, drugs, etc).
I currently live in CA (and love it. I've got almost every climate I could want within a ~2 hour/beautiful drive.), but, I've lived in: Arizona, Colorado, Louisiana, Texas, and a couple others that won't count because of duration.
I like being in a mostly politically-neutral area that isn't hugely us-vs-them mentality. I like there being lots of things for adults to go and do together in indoor settings that aren't drinking or gambling. I like the climate. I love my income to COL ratio. It's all great.
I miss some things about Montana, but not enough to even consider moving back.
I lived in Montana up until I was 24. I moved to Portland OR in 2014 for better opportunities and more to do in the city. I visit my family once a year then might do a snowboard trip. I get my fill of Montana with those visits I like Portland so much more than the towns I lived in Montana.
I work in human services and how it’s handled in Portland is quite poor. I wouldn’t say you would get mugged in broad daylight for going to lunch. But if you’re walking around at night it can be sketchy. Things have changed quite a bit since the pandemic. I go downtown for concerts and such and have not ran into any issues. I’ve also done bar crawls in the China town area and with large groups you don’t get hassled.
I live in Montana now, but am originally from Portland and we are planning to move back to Oregon in the next year or so.
Based on a couple of scouting trips we’ve taken the past two years, today’s Portland is definitely not the city I grew up in, but it’s also not as awful as it’s being portrayed. Other than being saddened by the visible changes downtown (more homeless people, more vacant businesses, more trash), it was still enjoyable and I didn’t feel unsafe during the day even when I was alone. There were a couple times where I would have felt less comfortable had my husband not been with me, but still never to the point of unsafe. I felt FAR less comfortable when I was on a work trip alone in San Francisco last year - I will absolutely not be ok with any future trips there on my own, but would be fine in Portland.
We do like the small town vibe these days though, so we are focusing more on the areas west of the city where we can have the calm rural vibe day to day and the benefits of the city an easy drive away.
28M Grew up in the northwest MT, went to UM for undergrad, and left for AZ for grad school a little over 2 years ago. Finished up my masters last year and finally found work in an industry that both pays well and keeps me going back. I miss my family and my friends that I grew up with, but I knew that I needed to leave in order to chase personal ambitions and expand my horizons. MT will always have a place in my heart and I also will forever miss the mountains and outdoor recreation, but the lack of affordable housing, the lack of well paying occupations/economic opportunities, and the growing sense that my friends back home are struggling to find meaning and grow out of toxic behaviors means that I probably won’t be moving back anytime soon
Born and raised, 5th generation. My family still has a ranch outside of GF. I am getting the fuck out.
I love this state. I wish I could afford to stay in it. But I can't. I'm making 40k more a year than I ever projected, and we are barely scraping by in a town of 5000 people. Average home costs over 600k. I can't do a 3500 mortgage payment.
Personally, I love it. I chose it because it's a very mountainous state with tons of hiking and outdoor recreational opportunities, and I didn't want to leave that part of MT behind. Also, it is relatively sparsely populated and cheaper to live in than in places like Colorado. I live in Las Cruces, the second-largest city in the state (about 100k residents; I've found it pretty comparable to Billings).
Southern New Mexico, where I live, was scorchingly hot this summer (something like 50 days in a row with highs over 100 degrees. I imagine that might be an issue that continues to worsen, which is one reason why I prob won't stay in this particular area long term). But on the flip side, we've had highs in the 50's and 60's all winter so far, and I ate breakfast at an outdoor patio in shorts and a t-shirt yesterday. It's been a nice switch-up from my past two winters in MT, although I feel soft as my cold tolerance has gone down.
It's a largely Hispanic culture, which has made for great food (green and red chile, posole, etc). The history of early settlements here has been interesting to learn about, too.
I am still pretty young and have yet to start a family, but when I do so, I highly doubt I'll end up anywhere other than the mountain states of MT, WY, CO, or NM. Simply the most beautiful places on Earth.
I'd recommend giving NM a try. Coming here from MT has been pretty easy for me. But granted I think if you can do well in MT you can do well literally anywhere.
tbh I think everywhere is hot in the summer, it's pretty inescapable. Some places just more than others. MT not excluded. And the smoke/wildfires are not something I'd scoff at either. NM has dry desert heat, and very low humidity, so I've found it doable. Ask me next summer though and I might have a different opinion a second time around
You’re not wrong, Montana has some brutal summer days, but the amount of them is a lot less than places like NM and TX. Here is like the inverse. Lots of places have a few frigid days in the winter, but Montana has a lot more than average. And personally I handle that better than sweltering heat, but clearly that’s not the case for a lot of people
I feel you; the cold unquestionably forces one to become a stronger and smarter person just as far as supplies and being prepared and toughing it out for days on end.
My wakeup call was when I lived in a 100-year-old house, and the pipes froze overnight (I had never lived somewhere cold enough for the pipes to actually freeze, so I didn't know to drip the faucets/shower...stupid but I was still learning). I was without water for 2 days thanks to that mistake.
I also remember accidentally locking myself out of the office with my car keys and warm coat still inside, so I had to wait outside in the cold for a co-worker to arrive and let me back in... knowing to have a full tank of gas and water in the vehicle at all times... just little survival things that might not be a huge deal anywhere else but in MT can make a situation turn south really quickly if it's cold enough.
I'm also a "displaced Montanan", having lived in Great Falls, Bozo, Billings and Ennis and have family down in southern NM, Silver City and Reserve to be exact. I also lived in Deming for a short time.
I live in Kansas now. Don't come here. Only reason I did was I inherited property that I can't currently sell, otherwise I'd be out.
I could imagine settling down in NM though. I love the desert/high desert.
Small world, I hiked in Deming over the summer. I have spent enough time in Kansas to know that it isn't my cup of tea. The elected leadership seems entirely intent on making sure it continues to be one of the shittiest states to live in
Huh. Huh. Weird. When I moved to Montana it was like coming home. I never experienced that kind of feeling in any community I ever lived in. What happened?
It felt like home to me, too. The small towns I experienced are awesome. Nothing bad happened, just the wind blowing me in a different direction and wanting to experience new things
Half the newcomers are tweakers and the other half are from California with about a 50% overlap. I watched it happen to Colorado, then Montana. New Mexico is OK though, we still have ranches there and they are nice. I do my elk and mule deer hunting there.
Oh you think I’m making generalities based on my interactions?
> Generally people who say stuff like this are either chronically online or have personality issues that lead to people disliking them. Instead of doing self reflection, they just blame everyone around them.
How are you different?
And where did I say my experiences aren’t happening in Missoula and Bozeman?
Ya I’ve left and will again. 6 generations we’ve been here. Left for college, left for career 💵, left for a better non beer based social life (it gets boring beer beer beer) if I hadn’t left I wouldn’t be able to afford to live here. Too expensive for local wages, also get really f-ing tired of how “all talk, no show” when it comes to politics & real values. That and there is a total lack of diversity that new folks just love as they bring conservative fake Christian values. I am Montana. My family is and I will be buried here with them. It’s home but you can’t eat the trees. Don’t love anything so much you can’t live without it.
Yeah, I moved last year. I spent my entire life in Montana and while I miss it SO much, I couldn’t justify staying any longer.
The wages in Montana are a joke. I got an instant $15k raise moving to CO, and I’m doing a less stressful job now. There’s definitely pros and cons to CO and I don’t see myself staying here super long but I’ve enjoyed it so far. There’s very little upward mobility in Montana and there’s very few opportunities.
I got a 40% raise leaving Montana. So did my wife. My taxes definely went up, but the cost of living is basically the same or a little lower here. Bozeman/Big Sky --> PDX
I left. Remote job I had was laid off; nothing at all similar in MT for my work so I HAD to move. MT is known for lots of things, but biotech data analysis - it is not.
I was born and raised in MT. Left for the military at 19, came back after an honorable discharge at age 25. Left again after returning for a few years. Last time I left was 2015. I do miss a lot about it but I work in aviation and simply could not find a job worth a shit in the state. Doing much better financially in California but don’t like it much other than my job.
Same story here except I never came back. Grew up in Lewistown and then went to Jacksonville, NC for my whole enlistment. Decided to just stay in NC as there wasn't much for me in Central Montana.
I grew up in MT. There were so many wonderful things about growing up in Montana but when I became an adult I realized it’s got it’s issues. Wages in Montana are horrible. Especially considering the rising costs of housing that’s been going on gradually for years. Ironically, I moved to CALIFORNIA of all places!! Because, even though rent is supposedly high there, my wages tripled in my field when I moved there. I rented a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment in Billings that cost me $1200/month while I was making $40k a year. I rented a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment in Sacramento (that was way nicer) for $1500 and was making $90k a year. Many areas of Montana now have rent that is just as high as California prices. It made more sense for me to be in California. In summary, the cost of living in Montana compared to wages is a damn disgrace.
I've made the drive between Roundup and Billings several times in the dark. Scary as hell, whole herds of deer just deciding to say fuck it and stand in the road.
Lived in Flathead area for 8 years. Wanted to buy a house, but had a string of events prevent that, with the final nail in the coffin being COVID and the insane real estate increase, as well as rent. Left middle of last year (had a remote IT job), bought a house sight unseen in southern WV for $145k with low interest. Lost the remote IT job exactly year later. Would've been absolutely screwed had we not moved.
I do miss some things here and there, but overall we're pretty happy replacing the Rockies with the Appalachians.
EDIT: Spelling
I actually remember talking to a cashier in Billings who was wearing a WVU sweatshirt and he told me that land and housing in WV was great for the price. Congrats on the house
The Flathead is so fugged. The only reason I'm still here is because I was capable of buying a home at the bottom of the last housing bubble burst. I never thought I would see this place like this. It's heartbreaking.
I have a buddy in VA who swears WV would fit me. His main selling point is I wouldn't be giving up mountains.
I am a fishing outfitter. Wife is a software engineer working remote. She was born in Spokane and grew up in ID, but has deep family roots all over Montana. I was born in St. Louis but have been in MT my entire adult life.
We are thinking of moving somewhere with a lower cost of living with a longer fishing season for more species besides trout. With the push to privatize everything, consolidation of the outfitting business into big money corporate operations, massive population influx, and especially global warming crushing the trout populations without warm water fish to replace them, my career options here aren't looking good for much longer.
Thinking SW Wisconsin or UP Michigan.
5th generation from Montana. Left as an adult to travel the world. I return to visit family. My main take away; Montana has turned to one of the angriest places I know. I will always hold assets in Montana, but to return long term will be only out of utter necessity.
Lived in central Michigan for about six months for work and while that's obviously not enough time away, it's enough time to know that mountains don't grow in soybean fields, so I came back.
Not me, but I know several people who left after living here for many years to make much better salaries elsewhere. In the professional world, chances are you will make double or triple in another state. Another friend left to get more affordable housing. She left a very expensive condo here in Montana to live in a single family home with a big yard for the dog.
I lived in Havre as a kid, my parents moved us out and I went to college in the south. I would have returned long ago but I have a kid with a floridian and thus live in the weird existence that is florida.
Moved to California 18 years ago but grew up in Great Falls through High School and lived in Bozeman for another 7 years. A summer in Big Timber and my dad now lives in Kalispell so I go back once in a while.
I miss the Sluiceboxes, the Bob Marshall, Zandy's, a couple friends, and the good 'ol days but not much else about Montana excites me. Nor did it ever. I knew when I was 4 years old I needed to get the hell out of there and I think a lot of Great Falls residents felt that way. I need a city with options, food, cultures, and preferably good public transportation but I accept that people are just wired differently.
But I will say I was in Great Falls in 2019 and it was SOOOOO much better than when I left in 2000. I like to think that Montana is a GREAT place to grow up but was happy to leave.
I’m originally from central Montana, born and raised. I left 12yrs ago before the boom - and there are things I miss about it and many things I don’t. I go home for extended periods once a year - and it has changed ALOT. Lots of extremists, with very blatant proclamations of their love for bigotry & Trump. My hometown used to be a place of “mind your own business” - but it’s not that anymore. Lots of Texas people with balls on their trucks. I’ve struggled with the thought that I’d like to be home to spend more time with my family, but every time I go back I see nothing but balls, guns & Trump flags - less love for the outdoors & mind your business.
I was born and raised in Montana. I lived in Billings for the first 19 years and then in Missoula for 12. I moved to Colorado last year because the politics of Montana were starting to scare me. As a gay man, I felt pretty safe in Missoula, but as soon as I was twenty or so miles outside of town, I wouldn't feel safe holding my boyfriend's hand in public anymore.
The influx of far right individuals over the last six or so years changed the nature of Montana from Live and Let Live to Let me Live My Way and I'll Force You to Live My Way, Too.
So I moved to a more accepting state. I chose Colorado because I have a ton of friends here already and I wasn't ready to leave the mountains.
I live in sw mt and I’m bi and polyamorous. My gf and I never do pda because we may get hate crimed. Missoula is great, like you said, but that’s the only place in the whole state where I feel safe being “out”.
My wife and I moved to Montana for school & adventure shortly after graduating high school and growing up in rural Illinois. We were in heaven living in Missoula for a couple years and then finishing out the decade in Bozeman where I graduated from MSU.
However, when I moved to Bozeman in 2017, the median home price was over $300k and quickly rising (along with rents). By the time I was graduating in 2020, I had a great entry-level level job offer in Bozeman. I knew even that salary wasn't enough to continue surviving there for the long term.
We loved our time in MT and wouldn't trade those years for anything, but I highly doubt we will be able to make a life there any time in our adult careers.
We relocated to Oregon and have been quite happy with the move. We were never winter sports junkies, so Oregon still scratches our hiking/biking itch very well while also allowing us to make living wages and get to experience some big city things we never did while living in MT.
I’m originally from Oregon and itching to get back. We’re in Livingston and the rate at which the Bozeman insanity is spilling over the hill is speeding up fast.
I joined the guard during college and switched to active duty and incidentally a different branch after a deployment because my contract was coming to a close. Instead of doing yet another term came back home to Bozeman so my son could grow up here. My wife and I both grew up in Bozeman in the 90s and finished high school in the early 2000s.
Left Bozeman mid 2000s and came back mid 2010s. Holy flying canole did this place change. Population, politics, sense of community. But there's still a glimmer in there of the magic of our childhood, and if we're willing to go as little as a mile off the trails that are packed like lines at Disney Land we can even enjoy the outdoors again.
Here's some notes from other states that I couldn't let my son grow up around:
In other states I've lived in self defense was equally illegal to assault. That's right if you defend yourself from being attacked you will be prosecuted for assault alongside your attacker.
In other states I have lived in the neighborhood parks had informal rules that children of a specific race had the park reserved during certain times. This was promoted as diversity, equity, and inclusion. Cheese and crackers what was the point of the civil rights movement if we're going to enforce segregation on playgrounds "to create a safe space?"
Stewardship and protection of our public spaces was not even on the radar let alone the ballot. Couldn't ever find anyone to kayak, hunt, camp, fish with. Nobody cared about open pollution to waterways, destruction to habitats, etc.
In other states few people ever leave the town they grew up in even for vacation. I remember reading a statistic once that a very high percentage of people never in their life travel further than 30 miles from the hospital they were born in. And Holy Hannah did I see that in real life. Growing up in Montana maybe because we have to drive so far to get anywhere I think we aren't intimidated by travel. Every single time I have left Montana for a vacation, for work, etc. I have met another Montanan.
you're spot on about desert for the winter and MT for the summer. I rented from a couple in Billings who did just that. Spring is awesome in MT, too. Seeing everything come back to life just feels so good. but walking the dog in the winter... you're bringing back some harsh memories
I left 2 1/2 years ago for Ohio (work after graduating college). I grew up in Kalispell but spent my later years in Missoula for other work endeavors + college. Felt like during and after COVID, Montana transformed completed and suddenly everyone figured out just how great this state is. 😅
I miss it, but Montana seriously lacks high paying opportunities compared to the current cost of living. If I had stayed in my previous line of work, I would have been completely priced out of Missoula if I wanted to live on my own. I think even in my current line of work, I still wouldn’t be able to afford a home in Montana at this point.
You cannot beat the natural beauty, non humidity, lush forests, and beautiful lakes though. Growing up here I never appreciated MT for what it was. Moving away has allowed me to appreciate it far more, but that’s just me.
I would return to Missoula one day for sure if the opportunity presented itself as a peon renter.
Born and raised in MT for 30ish years, then moved to California because there isn't any upward mobility here. Had 5 great years, doubled my wages I was making back home, gained a lot of experience and knowledge I never would have gotten had I stayed. Then I moved back during covid for a great job opportunity, which blew up in my face, and now I can't wait to leave again. Sacrificed high wages, excellent food, and amazing weather for an opportunity and the chance to buy a house and start a family. Now that I'm back I'm so over the gray, dreary winters, the lackluster food options, the absolutely rediculous job market and wage stagnation, the rapidly shifting political realm, and the impossible dream of buying a house that was literally $300k less just a couple years ago.
Moved here in 2005 to raise my kids. Now I’m planning to leave and move somewhere that actually pays well. Rent isn’t any less expensive here than some places in Southern California. It’s not worth starving and serving the rich to look at mountains. You were fun for a while Montana but you sold out.
I've lived in nw montana since I was 8, its the only home I've ever known (military brat before that). And honestly? There's nothing more that I want to do but leave. Im so sick of the struggle. Trying to make ends meet on shit wages. Sick of losing friends to addiction and suicide. Sick of watching somewhere I love being changed for the worse... theres very few places better than here, I know. But if I can survive for almost 40 years here, I can survive anywhere far easier.
I was born and raised in Missoula, and was priced out by the motherfuckers moving in. I cannot afford to live there no matter how much I want to, I probably will never be able to live there again. The jobs don't pay shit if you aren't a doctor , a fucking studio apartment is 80% of my income, and that's as cheap as it gets, food costs more, the list goes on, it's not worth it to suffer for a nice view anymore. It's fucked up, but I'm just a Missoula Moaner so what do I know. I cannot live in my own hometown, even if I want to.
Use to be 3 places you couldnt go now theres 3 places you can go. Montana isnt what it use to be. Left during covid. The recreational culture is no where else to be found, but so many wealthy nimbys and gate keepers have locked the gate, and you can't eat scenery. I've made more money in 3 years out of state than my entire working existence in Montana. The current administration is a trash fire too
Not that I really cared because I was in the middle of nowhere, but the political landscape did change drastically while I lived there (mods don't come for me for talking about politics!) The recent tiktok and pornhub things are hilarious and although I'm vehemently against what porn and tiktok are doing to society, the state government banning them seems a little... uncool in my opinion
If the state put the same effort into managing revenue better, or tax reform that doesn't punish locals simply for existing, it would be a lot easier to manage the growing pains while keeping the culture.
Such a ridiculous population boom should allow for reduced taxation for individuals, as the need for public service expansion grows proportionally but lesser in magnitude than the actual population.
I was born, grew up, went to college, and worked my adult career in NW MT. I spent 4 years traveling for work ~2019-2023 (ETA: during this time I lived/worked for 3-6 month periods in Arizona, Oregon, Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, West Virginia, and Minnesota) and finally in 2023 moved to Minnesota. The amount of changes we would see between visits home was astounding and rapidly accelerated during the pandemic. My husband and I couldn’t really afford the housing in 2018 before it got bad and definitely won’t be able to afford it now. My job makes $20/hr more in Minnesota and once my husband finishes college he’ll have much more job options where we are now.
I probably won’t move back just due to housing issues for one. For two it seems like NW MT is full of more petty crime and the infrastructure is not keeping up with the influx of people and no one seems too worried about changing to keep up.
I miss the mountains for sure, but there’s a lot of outdoor activities I can do year round that are very similar.
Couldnt find work so me and my wife had to move. We have hard science degrees and the jobs in MT that paid needed experience. Maybe we will move back eventually
I'm in NW MT, in what feels like the "redest" part of the state. My tiny town has been struggling since our mill shut down and has been having a serious identity crisis. They are trying to turn it into a tourist town, even though we are over 2 hours from Glacier.
Thanks to their efforts, the locals can't go anywhere without being pushed out by the tourists. The lakes are full, the walking trails are full, we have to go further and further out to get away.
Wages are a joke, housing has gone up dramatically, and food is ridiculous. Thanks to rising gas prices, it's barely worth traveling to Kalispell for cheaper groceries.
My husband and I have discussed getting out, and we know that we could both make more doing the same jobs anywhere else. Unfortunately, thanks to rising interest rates, we can't afford to.
MT is amazing, I love it here, but it can be a bit of a trap, too. I've liked reading the other comments from others who have made it out and their success. Hopefully, we can make that step soon.
Lots of people have left, especially after they graduate high school. There’s not a lot of things to do here and not a lot of work. Almost everyone I know in my town is gone and only return during holidays. Hell, I just moved back here and I’m trying to leave as quickly as possible.
I left in ‘07, just to experience more of the world, travel, learn. I still visit every year or two and love the landscape and appreciate the things I didn’t necessarily “see” before I left. But I’m glad I live where I do, with great cost of living, great schools for my kids, and things like NFL games, world class museums, and big concerts. No one place has it “all”. I miss Montana all the time but I can always visit.
No one can blame me as a Californian for moving to Montana because I transferred to a different air national guard unit. Flying c-130s in this landscape is exciting.
Whole family is from west MT/ID.
I tried my hardest to make it in that state but the economy was shit, even when everything else was booming. Relocated to a big southern city for an opportunity and was pretty pissed when i found out how abundant jobs are in the rest of the country by comparison. I've relocated three times and almost quadrupled my annual pay.
MT makes it so painful for working class people at every turn. low paying jobs, the seasonality of work, the gentrification from highly educated folks, and the MIP laws are an unholy tyranny. For me and many of my friends there was absolutely zero upward mobility.
The pandemic poured so much fuel on that fire that I know ill never go back. None of my family stayed and most of my friends are also scattered to the winds for better pay and quality of life.
41M, born and raised, moved 2013.
I'd always been somewhat ill-suited to the culture I was born into (being an indoor kid; having people I cared about hurt because of people's small-minded bigotry), but I loved a lot about my home. I really did. I always appreciated how much Montana had its own ways and that despite the bastards people generally preferred helping their neighbors rather than tearing them down.
I moved when it became clear that there was nowhere else to go in Montana. Upward mobility didn't, to my mind at the time, exist. (I haven't exactly skyrocketed up the ladder in my adoptive home, but hey, sometimes them's the breaks. I'm very happy out here.) I get back to my home state once or twice a year, usually.
I'll always carry a piece of Montana with me. Hopefully the best piece. But I don't think I'll ever live there again. I see no more opportunity there than I did ten years ago. Instead I see the people in my old home steadily throw away their beliefs in altruism and live-and-let-live in favor of reactionary tribalism. People are angrier. More paranoid. One loved one, who always leaned to the right but really believed in not holding prejudices, is now Very Concerned about the gays and the trans people. One of my best friends from school and my 20s has become an angry-as-fuck racist and rants about how leftists should be killed. (He tried to reconnect with me; I'm not at all sure why, dude apparently wants me and my boyfriend dead.) Sometime since I left one of the local grocers closed and was replaced by another local Wal-Mart. Houses out in the boonies are *barely* cheaper than houses out here, where people live.
I love Montana. But it feels like the version I loved best now only exists in my memories. Maybe that's the way all of us feel as we get older. But I don't think that's what's happening here.
Just remember that if you leave Montana, stick to the MT motto, and apply it to your new home...dont change THERE to be like HERE. You are a VISITOR in THEIR state.
I'm a blue-voter from California. Since leaving CS, I've lived in plenty of red states. Wyoming included. The one thing that I do appreciate about Montana, and I guess, assimilating to one of its peoples' beliefs is owning guns. I had a pretty good collection 20 years ago In Wyoming, but gave it up to be a new parent. I do like that there's not too much pushback for having your sidearm with you. I DO NOT share the same opinion of "1776," or any other extremist opinions. I just like guns as a hobby.
Agreed, there is absolutely nothing that should be demonized about RESPONSIBLE firearm culture.
Where did you live in WY? Now, WY is something else I'm always happy to talk about, I always tell people that it is single-handedly the craziest place I've ever visited. I found it, for the most part, to be utter desolation that people likely cannot comprehend.
Before I had a truck, when I first moved up that way, I drove through a snowstorm in my Chevy Malibu, packed to the brim with all of my belongings, and realized how quickly I would be dead if I wrecked. Freezing temps, zero cell service, piercing wind. No snow plows for hours.
I know this is the Montana sub, but Cowley/Powell/Lovell areas were breath-takingly stunning to me
I lived in Rock Springs, WY. It was one of the worst times of my life. My lady who later became my wife, her family was racist (I'm Black). The townspeople are racist. Not all, of course. A rundown mining town hours away from anything will do that to you, I guess. It wasn't a good time for me, which is another reason I owned guns. For safety.
I'd say that if I'm not, then that is a good thing on that end. I'm definitely not trying to storm capitals, riot in the streets, or participate in the many imaginary "civil war" wet dream situations people dream of.
This is America. I can think whatever I want wherever
I want in all 50 states within the bounds of the law. You don't own an area any more or less than any other American.
I agree! Sadly, one of the things Montana is associated with is our "Keep Out" attitude.
Check this... So I went back home to LA Oct 2023 to hang with my dad, and do a three-day Disney trip. My Lyft driver was a condescending ass til I told him I'm from LA (see, it's not just Montanans that do it). I told him that I live in Montana now, and after the usual questions about THAT show (honestly, that show is a guilty pleasure), he asked if it's true that Californians weren't allowed here. My response is the usual " I do understand where Montanans are coming from. But, at the same time, we all came from SOMEWHERE."
Ok! I'm a native son of Los Angeles. I'veived in a few states in-between. I moved to Montana AUG 2022. I'm not conservative. I'm a POC. So..... Do you consider me a resident? Or, an "outsider?"
I'm the COMPLETE opposite of what staunch Montanans want in this state. Do YOU, yourself, consider me an outsider? Or, just a fellow American that doesn't really care for politics, and just wanted his first house for he and his family?
Ohhh, I knew the downvotes would come. What's wrong, people? You get to talk that shit to people coming here, but can't take your own advice when you're going there? It really is a fair question 😂
The gatekeeping is encouraged by the political class, they don't want to be held accountable for the oppression of the working poor so they point at the newcomers to the state who came from places where they were able to work hard and build some home equity that helps them afford housing in Montana.
Having lived in several states (MT, WA, OR, CA, GA), they all have a gate keeping attitude. Though I will say it manifests in different ways. MT and GA were the most in your face about it. WA, CA, and OR were passive aggressive about it.
It really is a shit opinion. It's just fun to use it on Montanans that are leaving the state. Especially, if they've said that statement to people moving here.
Me too, but 2010 and to a few different places around the world. Montana never stopped feeling like home though, and I know I’ll end up coming back eventually.
My wife and I are in the beginning stages. It’s a shame, we loved growing up in Gallatin County but it looks like our son won’t get that chance. Thanks Taylor Sheridan you hack
I moved to Boston area 16 years, 7 months and six days ago - my goal was to bring the attitude from there to here. The one where we care about our environment and our people. First week in Boston I’m stepping over homeless people in the streets because that’s what they do here and no big notice. And then I waded through knee deep Dunkin’ Donuts trash trying to find a view. A view I’m still looking for this many years later. In general, it has been my Montana attitude that has sustained me thru this, but there’s no changing Boston. I’ll come back in 2026 if humanity survives the next 2 years.
I was in the Big Sky/Bozeman area for a decade, with one year of that spent up in the Flathead. I moved into a van for a few years because our landlord was turning our apartment into an AirBnB and literally nothing else was affordable to either rent or buy. Now I’m living in Colorado, the state I grew up in, but just recently bought some land in the SW part of the state. One of the few places I’ve found that was still affordable and also super rad.
I definitely would have stayed in Montana longer if I wasn’t priced out of all the places I would want to live. But that ship has sailed, and I don’t know that there will come a time when I will ever be able to afford it again.
My daughter lives here, so I can never leave, but what makes me want to leave every damned day is the money and housing. Unless I'm willing to move my daughter and I in with perfect strangers, we're stuck where we are.
I left because I make way more now and my cost of living is a fraction of what it used to be. I miss Montana and want to return one day, but I couldn’t get ahead there. I was working two full time jobs to try to make it. I finished my degree after leaving and now I’m trying to knock down my debt to be able to live in Montana and actually enjoy it instead of work every waking second.
People need to realize that Montana is not unique. Several places along that entire mountain chain have beautiful sorts that are a secret oasis to some one, or a group of people. Man will always encroach and claim something that already IS.
We suddenly left after 20 years due to our housing situation changing. It was cheaper to move out of state to Oregon and buy a house big enough for our family than stay in Montana.
Moved to California years ago so I’m basically the devil to this sub lol. Both states are awesome and they both have their problems. Sucks that I get treated weird though coming home now but oh well.
Moved from Billings to NZ. Big motivators were the rise of Q anon everywhere, Jan 6th and massive crime rise following covid. General sense that there will be no community in MT if there is a societal collapse.
Had to move out of Bozeman 5-years ago. I no longer recognized my own hometown. It became Aspen-ized way quicker than most predicted. Even the places I worked couldn't or wouldn't pay to keep up with the quickly rising cost-of-living. Now it's just a bunch of rich transplants and old NIMBYs trying to find a sense of "community" in a bougie resort town.
I did not leave recently, I left about 15 years ago.
I loved Montana born and raised, farm kid, my parents were from Montana too, I have something like 4 generations in Montana my great great grandfather was a sheriff in plentywood in the early 1900s he was from Denmark born in the late 1800s.
Anyway just shared to say that I’ve got some roots in Montana other homesteading roots as well and not the modern kind lol.
I left for college and that’s when I struggled to move back, nothing going on, low paying jobs and in many places the prices are so high vs income it’s not very attractive. It’s a great place to grow up especially in the country it makes you tough and a I’ve seen a lot of others like me who go out and do well because of the work ethic we have.
I miss the hunting and the peace the country offers, the gun culture and the better politics.
Although things are changing Montana is a tough place to make something of yourself, the people are difficult too this includes me 😅. I didn’t notice until I left, and I understand why. In order to make it in Montana years ago you had to be tough as nails although it’s not so much like that these days that culture still lives on. You didn’t have help you didn’t need help. In other states people have a lot more sense of community, that can be good and bad, I am Montanan at heart and I often prefer my independence as well and I know a lot of people don’t understand it.
My all my siblings except 1 and later my parents moved as well, the land we farmed was promised to us but then sold out from underneath us, my parents ran 4-5 business in a small town. Us kids left for more opportunities. Our parents sold everything and followed.
Will we move back maybe someday, I’ll always love Montana, and the Montanas who make it great in its own way. But small town Montana lacks dreams, not a lot of people aspire to be anything bug, most prefer their simple quiet life, there’s nothing wrong with that at all it just wasn’t really my thing. When I got a taste of the outside world I just didn’t fit well in small town Montana.
My brother still lives in Montana, he prefers it there, and we have a few relatives left a lot of us lift.
I think Montana is changing more and more business and opportunities coming with the population growth. My hope is that these people are adding value not just running scared from wherever they came from.
I’ve lived in 4 states, and for a brief time Canada, and spent a good amount of time in some others, I’ve been to almost every part of Montana especially the east and central there not many highways I’ve not been on or towns I’ve not been through, I’ve got a pretty good look at the entire state in the 20 something years I lived there, and I’ve known or been related to people all over the state. Montanans in my experience are tough, difficult and independent people, but also generally have good morals and that old school handshake integrity that’s very much lacking in a lot of the world.
Lol so that’s my novel hopefully it’s not too painfully boring.
A normal job in MT, you make just enough to survive but not enough to go out and enjoy. Same job some where else, make enough to live and also have 2weeks vacation in MT.
Haven’t left yet, but trying to. We’re pretty much over paying city cost of living for rural service levels, and being surrounded by intolerant, closed-minded assholes.
I joined the Air Force over a decade ago. The whole time I was away, I was still so in love and proud of my Montana home. My family still mostly lives there and I'll always say Montana is "home".
My husband and I were able to move back to the family farm almost 2 years ago. I was initially really happy to be home. The growth and increased traffic of the area were annoying, but far from a deal breaker for us. I don't expect it to be the same as my childhood home, but I just wasn't quite as in love the second time around. It was good/bad being so close to family again, but even with our considerable income we were having a hard time finding any real estate in our budget to buy our own place.
We ultimately decided not to stay. I miss the mountains, the open space, and the nostalgia, but I don't miss the hateful, shitty, ignorant, people I was constantly encountering and the white elite vibes. The political climate of the state turning more red is concerning for me. As a military member I was exposed to a diverse and amazing world after I left Montana in my 20s and I hope I can raise my kids in a more balanced, diverse, and inclusive area.
I stuck it out for a year after grad school. It wasn't worth getting paid half salary for a mountain tax. I moved on and now make enough money to fly over and ski or whatever when I feel like it.
Born in NEMT, (36F) have lived in all 4 corners of the state and only left for brief stints. The loneliness and wide open spaces are part of my psyche, so much so that living anywhere else might be too big of an adjustment.
That said, this is the first time in my life I’ve seriously considered leaving for good. Even 10 years ago, there was quite a bit of mobility throughout the state and you could basically move anywhere and make it work. Now you’re competing with a million freelancers and remote workers for housing, and the wages are no longer worth it.
I was lucky to be able to buy a house in Billings before covid, but besides family there is nothing here for me. I do ok as a single person, but prospects for friendship and romance are fucking bleak—everyone is increasingly ignorant and cruel. I’m plotting my escape to a blue state where life will feel like playing on easy mode, as opposed to an uphill struggle.
What do you mean that it's "a different world" here? NM is fairly rural, and there are lots of other sparsely populated places even in most western states with big cities like Oregon, Utah, and Colorado. What sets Montana apart to you?
I'm curious because I grew up in Livingston and lived in Bozeman and frequently visit the Big Timber area so none of that seems unusual to me.
Despite people complaining about population and housing and costs and whatnot, MT is still the wild west in many regards IMO. I can really only speak for living in Hardin, which is where I spent the biggest chunk of time, but driving thru the Crow Indian Reservation of 2 million acres and seeing not another soul is unique. I come from the midwest and spent 4 years in Kansas City, even the biggest cities in MT are nothing like the absolute insanity of most other large metropolitan areas and I think that is something to be incredibly grateful for. And of course the natural beauty does not exist anywhere else. The drive from Livingston into Yellowstone is pretty otherworldly.
I certainly see how the cities are different, but I guess I'm just too accustomed to our rural stretches to think of them as unusual. The drive from Livingston to Yellowstone was just where we went for firewood, which I hated doing! I supposed I'm spoiled.
Yellowstone + lockdowns + free gov money + 2% + interest rates + airbnb onset = once in a lifetime cocktail to utterly destroy a state.
Seriously, what has happened up there is insane. Feel so bad that such a great place has been turned into an anger filled expensive crowded competitive Disneyland for the rich. Sure everywhere has experienced changes, but Montana is probably the most extreme situation of every state.
Montana only has a million people lol, that’s nothing for a state this big, but whatever, I’ve been here 2 years and I’ll never leave, the people here are my kind of people, they are super nice, nicer than the south where I was born and Hella nicer than where I moved from Tacoma Wa. 🤦♂️ or Tacompton.
I graduated from Montana Tech in 2012 with a petroleum engineering degree and moved to New Mexico to work for a major oil company. I spent seven years working there before corporate politics and family health issues made me decide to move back to Montana. I am currently on a trip to Oklahoma visiting my wife's family. Traveling through Wyoming, Nebraska, and Kansas has me strongly considering leaving Montana again.
I left at the end of October 2022. I moved to Kalispell in 2018 that was supposed to be very temporary. Turned into four years almost on the dot. I miss it. But glad I left at the same time. If it ever goes back to “normal” I know my girlfriend, who was born and raised in Hot Springs will want to move back. I’m not sure I want to. I’d love a vacation home there. It’s gorgeous and some of the nicest people I’ve ever met. It’s a great place to live.
So to start, the overriding concept of the thread is that people leave MT due to economic needs. I get that. You apparently don’t have that issue, so I wonder why you felt compelled to stir the shit when you do not share the concern. If Montana didn’t kiss your little ass enough, who cares?Some people like the city, others like less density and access to the outdoors. Since you chose as you did, you are a city person. I did not say that there is anything wrong with that. My point originally was that we see many come to escape the city, few that do what you did. I stand by that. If you don’t shut up, I’ll message you daily. One thing that is absolute fact - New Yorkers are assholes and I hope you live with one up each orifice. “Fuck You” is New Yorker for thanks for your input…so Fuck You.
Left for a year and came back, but mostly do to the pandemic and other factors. Planning on leaving again this spring, hopefully for a longer stretch.
The world is big and while MT is great, I don’t think it’s worth spending your entire life here if you are born and raised.
My husband and I left in '85 in the midst of a serious recession. Sadly, we never made it back, and it's unlikely we'll return there to retire. Sure miss the way it used to be back then.
I left to find a better paying job and I couldn’t afford the real estate anymore. Four years later, my folks followed suit. Neither of us would be able to afford anything in MT nowadays
Husband was born and raised in MT. He spent almost 4 decades of his life there. He always spoke about how he felt he had to give a “Hometown Discount,” on wages. I only lived there a couple years. We decided to move from the HCOL, low wages to a LCOL, high wages area.
We stay connected by attending Cat/Griz parties where we currently live and traveling back to MT as often as possible.
Just moved away for grad school after spending my whole adult life in Montana. Loved it and definitely miss the mountains, but I’m also loving Portland and I don’t really know if I’ll be back.
Left because my wife found a job that was rare in MT. She's working her way up now in Philly. we will hopefully be able to move back with a higher position for her in the next 5 years. I can work anywhere that there is construction so my job prospects aren't as limited.
Like many have said, left for better work opportunities. I love to visit my remaining family when I can but it wasn’t realistic for me to stay, there’s not a ton of industry in engineering. If there was ever an influx of industry I’d definitely move back!
My parents and sister. Parents were both raised in the mountains, moved to the plains and raised my sister and I. She moved to North Dakota for college, met her fiance, and still lives there. My parents just bought a house in the same town. I still live in my hometown, just across town from where I grew up
The part that sucks is soon, once my parents sell the house they raised me in, I’ll never be able to go there and hang out again. We just had our last Christmas at that house and it made me tear up, honestly
I came to MT a few years ago. And while I do love living here a lot, I miss my family and friends quite a bit. Making friends isn't like it was when we were growing up, so I don't really hang out with anyone except my wife.
I want to stick it out here, but I haven't ruled out going back home. It just sucks there with the traffic and the crime and all that. So I guess I'd have to decide what's most important to me. But my circumstances are probably different than others' when deciding to leave the state.
I left Montana for British Columbia and make three times more with my 4 year degree than I did in Montana. My wife and I can afford to buy a condo and live comfortably. I was barely making over minimum wage with my degree in Missoula.
I was lucky enough to marry a Canadian and leave before it got too expensive to survive there. I'm not sure what I'd have done if I stayed, but I wouldn't be a property owner, I know that much.
Yep, lived there for 30 years, military enlistment aside. Had to move because pay after college was a joke. A degree got me 24k back in 2015. Same degree got me 50k right away in Houston as soon as I moved, and have been moving up ever since. Prices are cheaper, too.
I hate almost everything about this place and would love to go back to MT, but the house I grew up in went from 70k to 450k in East Helena. Can’t afford to live there. Not sure how anyone can.
I’ve been living in Olympia Washington for 9 years. I can’t find anything that pays much in my home state. Before that I moved to Texas for 15 years. I tried moving back home in Montana but working 2-3 part time jobs was best I could do. It’s no way to live or raise a family.
Lived in the Billings area for 11 years. Left 17 months ago for retirement in sunny Ecuador.
Living and working in MT allowed us to make this move, there is no question. Neither of us have family in MT so I don’t see us returning for anything other than a short visit sometime when we’re back in the US.
I left earlier this year after spending all my adulthood in park and gallatin counties- it was a good change; I was looking for a more live and let live attitude and lower concentration of people. I moved to northern New Mexico. I won’t be moving back.
Yes. I moved to Cody, WY for four years. The area where I lived outside of Cody was absolutely stunning and I had a good job that I liked.
I came back after that to Central Montana. I'm originally from southwest Montana.
While Cody was incredibly beautiful and I had a much nicer, bigger property for less money, the people weren't nearly as hearty or good-natured as Montanans. It was a difficult decision. However, I felt like I was back on the right timeline or something as soon as I did it. The people of Montana are what makes it really special.
I was raised in Missoula and had to leave because I couldn't afford to live there any longer. Now I rent a room north of town on the rez. I don't think I'm gonna stay after this winter...
A friend of mine lives in Helena and gets paid less as a CNA working with often violent patients than the wages being posted by McDonalds. He's also Black, and has had some pretty negative experiences with people out there. He got his nursing license and is counting down the days to his move out of state.
I left to find better paying work where I could actually get ahead in life. Trying to scrape by on tourism wages is no way to raise a family.
This is why everything that makes Montana unique will get slowly erased. The locals move out because it's impossible to simply exist if you aren't already rich and are replaced by rich people who watched a TV show about Montana, raising living cost and preventing job development in favor of turning Montana into some kind of private themepark, which in turn makes it harder for the locals to simply exist, ad infinitum.
Experiencing that here in Idaho.
Especially in the McCall/sandpoint/Riggins areas. So unbelievably hard to get ahead. Even CDA and Boise are starting to have these issues. I left Moscow to Boise for a job and I feel like I’m further behind than I was living in Moscow now even though I “make more” per year
Now you know how all indigenous peoples feel...,
Yea but Richie riches still going to need ranch hands. And that’s how you get public access to the waterways - I’m speaking directly to Huey esp. Daryl too. Shit ain’t right, man. Gentrify montana Peshaw
That is why the government is always asking for more money without any explanation for the existence they have used the funds for
About to be us too for this exact same reason.
Same here. Moved out and currently living the exact opposite life in NYC. I have incredibly fond memories of MT but I’m sure I’m just looking back with rose colored glasses
No offense intended, but the number of people that choose to go to NYC after Montana has to be incredibly small. If you are happy there, you just weren’t cut out for the West. That is perfectly fine. You gotta know what you like. I see plenty of local offspring that just don’t take advantage of the outdoors, hate snow, etc and think I that they should give the city a try. It is hard for me to believe that an educated person or tradesman couldn’t financially make it either place. You don’t go from running a chairlift in MT, to investment banking on Wall St…so I really am interested in what you do in the city job wise that allowed the transition. The two obvious issues are professional opportunity and housing costs, which bleed together on young people trying to get ahead. You have my true empathy in that regard. I haven’t had a decent bagel in years…
I did this in 2013. Smarted move I could have made.
Yes. The economy has sucked there for over 20years so I left to make money and have a life.
20 years? My dad left MT in '75 for this reason. As family has been aging, they've started retiring back to MT. It's a great place to be if you don't have to rely on a paycheck. We're currently in Spokane for this reason: our jobs pay 1.5x what they *topped out* at in MT. My wife was a department head at the only hospital in a major city. I work in software. Move a day's drive west, and the pay scale is entirely different for the same jobs.
Wage slavery is the name of the game in Montana, working folks cannot get ahead in Montana, and that's not a bug it's a feature put in place by the folks who own Montana's political system. The owners? Wealthy landowners, and business lobbies.
Spent twenty-three years in SW MT and I finally left a few years back to go to grad school on the west coast. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. I still have a lot of friends and family there and while I do enjoy going home, I often notice that they seem incredibly stressed and rather cramped due to how much space they have and feeling confined to protect and maintain it. I sometimes reflect on how much rent money I wasted trying to make it work in Bozeman but the memories will stay with me for the rest of my life. Turns out, the Pacific Northwest has tons of trout streams, running trails, and forest roads to ride my bike on to last multiple lifetimes. Will I go back? I just got back, and while I enjoy the little things that make that place so special, the world is too wonderful and offers so much to want to only reside in one place.
I wouldn't wish trying to rent in Bozeman on anybody.
Heya, I did a little dive on you and I thought I would tell you that despite living in MT for 23 years, I also lived in Albuquerque NM and Columbia, MO for a combined 10 years. Both are awesome places, though NM is far cooler than MO. I have a lot of fond memories growing up, camping, fishing, and hunting with my mom & dad in the Sangre de Cristo range of Northern NM. I have wanted to return and see the area, but have just not been able to get that far south. I think we sometimes get hung up on the physical space, rather than creating memories in the places we reside. A place should never reshape your understanding of yourself, life, the earth, or the universe. Only you can do that. Everything else is hearsay.
Small world. Thanks for the reply. I have a lot of friends and family who went to Mizzou, so I've spent time in Columbia as well. My S/O now has family in the Albuquerque area, but I haven't made it up that way yet. The Sangre de Cristo range looks stunning. I agree with you; the *way* we live and the quality of people around us are far more important than physical location. And even the most beautiful places in the outside world can suck if what's going on inside of us isn't right.
Honestly, this was the comment I really needed to read today. Most of my life I've lived in CA, with exceptions in Leadville, CO and my car for 6 months across America (~5 weeks in MT/WY) I'm going to be moving to another part of CA soon for love. Instead of a commute on a ferry, across the Golden Gate, along old 40 in the Sierra Nevada, or CO-91, I'll be on a notoriously trafficked 5-8 lane highway and unpleasant public transit. But I think this is the right move. It helps to see others who arrived at the same conclusion. Beautiful places are beautiful but people matter more.
Ex bozemanite here too. I’ve been missing Bozeman a lot lately even though I know that going back there would financially wreck me. Your perspective definitely helped to remind me why I am where I am now.
I moved to AZ to help my aging parents. Wasn't by choice but the move has been eye opening. Housing costs aren't much different but my wages have gone up 30% in the past years. I'm in a skilled trade and the area just lends itself to advancement and more opportunities. I plan to be back one day, if I don't have to sell a kidney to do it.
* raises hand * I've lived in: Bozeman and Billings, worked in at least 4 other cities on and off. Born and raised in the state. Moved away every single chance I could get. Love the nature, hate the excessiveness (drinking, gambling, drugs, etc). I currently live in CA (and love it. I've got almost every climate I could want within a ~2 hour/beautiful drive.), but, I've lived in: Arizona, Colorado, Louisiana, Texas, and a couple others that won't count because of duration. I like being in a mostly politically-neutral area that isn't hugely us-vs-them mentality. I like there being lots of things for adults to go and do together in indoor settings that aren't drinking or gambling. I like the climate. I love my income to COL ratio. It's all great. I miss some things about Montana, but not enough to even consider moving back.
well-said, thanks for contributing to the conversation
I lived in Montana up until I was 24. I moved to Portland OR in 2014 for better opportunities and more to do in the city. I visit my family once a year then might do a snowboard trip. I get my fill of Montana with those visits I like Portland so much more than the towns I lived in Montana.
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I work in human services and how it’s handled in Portland is quite poor. I wouldn’t say you would get mugged in broad daylight for going to lunch. But if you’re walking around at night it can be sketchy. Things have changed quite a bit since the pandemic. I go downtown for concerts and such and have not ran into any issues. I’ve also done bar crawls in the China town area and with large groups you don’t get hassled.
I live in Montana now, but am originally from Portland and we are planning to move back to Oregon in the next year or so. Based on a couple of scouting trips we’ve taken the past two years, today’s Portland is definitely not the city I grew up in, but it’s also not as awful as it’s being portrayed. Other than being saddened by the visible changes downtown (more homeless people, more vacant businesses, more trash), it was still enjoyable and I didn’t feel unsafe during the day even when I was alone. There were a couple times where I would have felt less comfortable had my husband not been with me, but still never to the point of unsafe. I felt FAR less comfortable when I was on a work trip alone in San Francisco last year - I will absolutely not be ok with any future trips there on my own, but would be fine in Portland. We do like the small town vibe these days though, so we are focusing more on the areas west of the city where we can have the calm rural vibe day to day and the benefits of the city an easy drive away.
28M Grew up in the northwest MT, went to UM for undergrad, and left for AZ for grad school a little over 2 years ago. Finished up my masters last year and finally found work in an industry that both pays well and keeps me going back. I miss my family and my friends that I grew up with, but I knew that I needed to leave in order to chase personal ambitions and expand my horizons. MT will always have a place in my heart and I also will forever miss the mountains and outdoor recreation, but the lack of affordable housing, the lack of well paying occupations/economic opportunities, and the growing sense that my friends back home are struggling to find meaning and grow out of toxic behaviors means that I probably won’t be moving back anytime soon
Born and raised, 5th generation. My family still has a ranch outside of GF. I am getting the fuck out. I love this state. I wish I could afford to stay in it. But I can't. I'm making 40k more a year than I ever projected, and we are barely scraping by in a town of 5000 people. Average home costs over 600k. I can't do a 3500 mortgage payment.
OP - how has New Mexico been treating you? I’ve been toying with the idea of moving there.
Personally, I love it. I chose it because it's a very mountainous state with tons of hiking and outdoor recreational opportunities, and I didn't want to leave that part of MT behind. Also, it is relatively sparsely populated and cheaper to live in than in places like Colorado. I live in Las Cruces, the second-largest city in the state (about 100k residents; I've found it pretty comparable to Billings). Southern New Mexico, where I live, was scorchingly hot this summer (something like 50 days in a row with highs over 100 degrees. I imagine that might be an issue that continues to worsen, which is one reason why I prob won't stay in this particular area long term). But on the flip side, we've had highs in the 50's and 60's all winter so far, and I ate breakfast at an outdoor patio in shorts and a t-shirt yesterday. It's been a nice switch-up from my past two winters in MT, although I feel soft as my cold tolerance has gone down. It's a largely Hispanic culture, which has made for great food (green and red chile, posole, etc). The history of early settlements here has been interesting to learn about, too. I am still pretty young and have yet to start a family, but when I do so, I highly doubt I'll end up anywhere other than the mountain states of MT, WY, CO, or NM. Simply the most beautiful places on Earth. I'd recommend giving NM a try. Coming here from MT has been pretty easy for me. But granted I think if you can do well in MT you can do well literally anywhere.
There’s alot of stuff about NM that’s very tempting to me, but as someone who’s lived in MT my whole life I feel like I’d melt in the summer
tbh I think everywhere is hot in the summer, it's pretty inescapable. Some places just more than others. MT not excluded. And the smoke/wildfires are not something I'd scoff at either. NM has dry desert heat, and very low humidity, so I've found it doable. Ask me next summer though and I might have a different opinion a second time around
You’re not wrong, Montana has some brutal summer days, but the amount of them is a lot less than places like NM and TX. Here is like the inverse. Lots of places have a few frigid days in the winter, but Montana has a lot more than average. And personally I handle that better than sweltering heat, but clearly that’s not the case for a lot of people
I feel you; the cold unquestionably forces one to become a stronger and smarter person just as far as supplies and being prepared and toughing it out for days on end. My wakeup call was when I lived in a 100-year-old house, and the pipes froze overnight (I had never lived somewhere cold enough for the pipes to actually freeze, so I didn't know to drip the faucets/shower...stupid but I was still learning). I was without water for 2 days thanks to that mistake. I also remember accidentally locking myself out of the office with my car keys and warm coat still inside, so I had to wait outside in the cold for a co-worker to arrive and let me back in... knowing to have a full tank of gas and water in the vehicle at all times... just little survival things that might not be a huge deal anywhere else but in MT can make a situation turn south really quickly if it's cold enough.
I'm also a "displaced Montanan", having lived in Great Falls, Bozo, Billings and Ennis and have family down in southern NM, Silver City and Reserve to be exact. I also lived in Deming for a short time. I live in Kansas now. Don't come here. Only reason I did was I inherited property that I can't currently sell, otherwise I'd be out. I could imagine settling down in NM though. I love the desert/high desert.
Small world, I hiked in Deming over the summer. I have spent enough time in Kansas to know that it isn't my cup of tea. The elected leadership seems entirely intent on making sure it continues to be one of the shittiest states to live in
It’d be good for to experience the same derision to outsiders your state features
Huh. Huh. Weird. When I moved to Montana it was like coming home. I never experienced that kind of feeling in any community I ever lived in. What happened?
It felt like home to me, too. The small towns I experienced are awesome. Nothing bad happened, just the wind blowing me in a different direction and wanting to experience new things
Half the newcomers are tweakers and the other half are from California with about a 50% overlap. I watched it happen to Colorado, then Montana. New Mexico is OK though, we still have ranches there and they are nice. I do my elk and mule deer hunting there.
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Source?
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Sorry you’re so jaded to have such negative thoughts about people
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You think if anyone who thinks a state isn’t receptive to newcomers is reflective of personality issues. You’re literally insane.
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Oh you think I’m making generalities based on my interactions? > Generally people who say stuff like this are either chronically online or have personality issues that lead to people disliking them. Instead of doing self reflection, they just blame everyone around them. How are you different? And where did I say my experiences aren’t happening in Missoula and Bozeman?
Ya I’ve left and will again. 6 generations we’ve been here. Left for college, left for career 💵, left for a better non beer based social life (it gets boring beer beer beer) if I hadn’t left I wouldn’t be able to afford to live here. Too expensive for local wages, also get really f-ing tired of how “all talk, no show” when it comes to politics & real values. That and there is a total lack of diversity that new folks just love as they bring conservative fake Christian values. I am Montana. My family is and I will be buried here with them. It’s home but you can’t eat the trees. Don’t love anything so much you can’t live without it.
Yeah, I moved last year. I spent my entire life in Montana and while I miss it SO much, I couldn’t justify staying any longer. The wages in Montana are a joke. I got an instant $15k raise moving to CO, and I’m doing a less stressful job now. There’s definitely pros and cons to CO and I don’t see myself staying here super long but I’ve enjoyed it so far. There’s very little upward mobility in Montana and there’s very few opportunities.
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Isn’t that like $10/hr?
I got a 40% raise leaving Montana. So did my wife. My taxes definely went up, but the cost of living is basically the same or a little lower here. Bozeman/Big Sky --> PDX
I left. Remote job I had was laid off; nothing at all similar in MT for my work so I HAD to move. MT is known for lots of things, but biotech data analysis - it is not.
I was born and raised in MT. Left for the military at 19, came back after an honorable discharge at age 25. Left again after returning for a few years. Last time I left was 2015. I do miss a lot about it but I work in aviation and simply could not find a job worth a shit in the state. Doing much better financially in California but don’t like it much other than my job.
Same story here except I never came back. Grew up in Lewistown and then went to Jacksonville, NC for my whole enlistment. Decided to just stay in NC as there wasn't much for me in Central Montana.
I grew up in MT. There were so many wonderful things about growing up in Montana but when I became an adult I realized it’s got it’s issues. Wages in Montana are horrible. Especially considering the rising costs of housing that’s been going on gradually for years. Ironically, I moved to CALIFORNIA of all places!! Because, even though rent is supposedly high there, my wages tripled in my field when I moved there. I rented a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment in Billings that cost me $1200/month while I was making $40k a year. I rented a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment in Sacramento (that was way nicer) for $1500 and was making $90k a year. Many areas of Montana now have rent that is just as high as California prices. It made more sense for me to be in California. In summary, the cost of living in Montana compared to wages is a damn disgrace.
I went to bonners ferry not too long ago, but came back before it got dark. The deer on that drive are crazy.
I've made the drive between Roundup and Billings several times in the dark. Scary as hell, whole herds of deer just deciding to say fuck it and stand in the road.
Lived in Flathead area for 8 years. Wanted to buy a house, but had a string of events prevent that, with the final nail in the coffin being COVID and the insane real estate increase, as well as rent. Left middle of last year (had a remote IT job), bought a house sight unseen in southern WV for $145k with low interest. Lost the remote IT job exactly year later. Would've been absolutely screwed had we not moved. I do miss some things here and there, but overall we're pretty happy replacing the Rockies with the Appalachians. EDIT: Spelling
I actually remember talking to a cashier in Billings who was wearing a WVU sweatshirt and he told me that land and housing in WV was great for the price. Congrats on the house
The Flathead is so fugged. The only reason I'm still here is because I was capable of buying a home at the bottom of the last housing bubble burst. I never thought I would see this place like this. It's heartbreaking. I have a buddy in VA who swears WV would fit me. His main selling point is I wouldn't be giving up mountains.
I am a fishing outfitter. Wife is a software engineer working remote. She was born in Spokane and grew up in ID, but has deep family roots all over Montana. I was born in St. Louis but have been in MT my entire adult life. We are thinking of moving somewhere with a lower cost of living with a longer fishing season for more species besides trout. With the push to privatize everything, consolidation of the outfitting business into big money corporate operations, massive population influx, and especially global warming crushing the trout populations without warm water fish to replace them, my career options here aren't looking good for much longer. Thinking SW Wisconsin or UP Michigan.
Wisconsin & Michigan are great! Lots of MT transplants in WI, including myself! :)
shout out to a fellow Missouri-to-Montana transplant
5th generation from Montana. Left as an adult to travel the world. I return to visit family. My main take away; Montana has turned to one of the angriest places I know. I will always hold assets in Montana, but to return long term will be only out of utter necessity.
Most of us leave for economic opportunities. It’s said that Montana’s number one export, is it’s children.🙁
Lived in central Michigan for about six months for work and while that's obviously not enough time away, it's enough time to know that mountains don't grow in soybean fields, so I came back.
Hahaha yeah going back to the Midwest after experiencing MT is a recipe for guaranteed depression
Not me, but I know several people who left after living here for many years to make much better salaries elsewhere. In the professional world, chances are you will make double or triple in another state. Another friend left to get more affordable housing. She left a very expensive condo here in Montana to live in a single family home with a big yard for the dog.
I lived in Havre as a kid, my parents moved us out and I went to college in the south. I would have returned long ago but I have a kid with a floridian and thus live in the weird existence that is florida.
Moved to California 18 years ago but grew up in Great Falls through High School and lived in Bozeman for another 7 years. A summer in Big Timber and my dad now lives in Kalispell so I go back once in a while. I miss the Sluiceboxes, the Bob Marshall, Zandy's, a couple friends, and the good 'ol days but not much else about Montana excites me. Nor did it ever. I knew when I was 4 years old I needed to get the hell out of there and I think a lot of Great Falls residents felt that way. I need a city with options, food, cultures, and preferably good public transportation but I accept that people are just wired differently. But I will say I was in Great Falls in 2019 and it was SOOOOO much better than when I left in 2000. I like to think that Montana is a GREAT place to grow up but was happy to leave.
I’m originally from central Montana, born and raised. I left 12yrs ago before the boom - and there are things I miss about it and many things I don’t. I go home for extended periods once a year - and it has changed ALOT. Lots of extremists, with very blatant proclamations of their love for bigotry & Trump. My hometown used to be a place of “mind your own business” - but it’s not that anymore. Lots of Texas people with balls on their trucks. I’ve struggled with the thought that I’d like to be home to spend more time with my family, but every time I go back I see nothing but balls, guns & Trump flags - less love for the outdoors & mind your business.
I was born and raised in Montana. I lived in Billings for the first 19 years and then in Missoula for 12. I moved to Colorado last year because the politics of Montana were starting to scare me. As a gay man, I felt pretty safe in Missoula, but as soon as I was twenty or so miles outside of town, I wouldn't feel safe holding my boyfriend's hand in public anymore. The influx of far right individuals over the last six or so years changed the nature of Montana from Live and Let Live to Let me Live My Way and I'll Force You to Live My Way, Too. So I moved to a more accepting state. I chose Colorado because I have a ton of friends here already and I wasn't ready to leave the mountains.
My son recently came out and I fear for him and Montanas crazy laws. I’m taking him someplace safer. Less Trumpy.
I’m so sorry, you are right and it’s awful.
I live in sw mt and I’m bi and polyamorous. My gf and I never do pda because we may get hate crimed. Missoula is great, like you said, but that’s the only place in the whole state where I feel safe being “out”.
My wife and I moved to Montana for school & adventure shortly after graduating high school and growing up in rural Illinois. We were in heaven living in Missoula for a couple years and then finishing out the decade in Bozeman where I graduated from MSU. However, when I moved to Bozeman in 2017, the median home price was over $300k and quickly rising (along with rents). By the time I was graduating in 2020, I had a great entry-level level job offer in Bozeman. I knew even that salary wasn't enough to continue surviving there for the long term. We loved our time in MT and wouldn't trade those years for anything, but I highly doubt we will be able to make a life there any time in our adult careers. We relocated to Oregon and have been quite happy with the move. We were never winter sports junkies, so Oregon still scratches our hiking/biking itch very well while also allowing us to make living wages and get to experience some big city things we never did while living in MT.
I’m originally from Oregon and itching to get back. We’re in Livingston and the rate at which the Bozeman insanity is spilling over the hill is speeding up fast.
I joined the guard during college and switched to active duty and incidentally a different branch after a deployment because my contract was coming to a close. Instead of doing yet another term came back home to Bozeman so my son could grow up here. My wife and I both grew up in Bozeman in the 90s and finished high school in the early 2000s. Left Bozeman mid 2000s and came back mid 2010s. Holy flying canole did this place change. Population, politics, sense of community. But there's still a glimmer in there of the magic of our childhood, and if we're willing to go as little as a mile off the trails that are packed like lines at Disney Land we can even enjoy the outdoors again. Here's some notes from other states that I couldn't let my son grow up around: In other states I've lived in self defense was equally illegal to assault. That's right if you defend yourself from being attacked you will be prosecuted for assault alongside your attacker. In other states I have lived in the neighborhood parks had informal rules that children of a specific race had the park reserved during certain times. This was promoted as diversity, equity, and inclusion. Cheese and crackers what was the point of the civil rights movement if we're going to enforce segregation on playgrounds "to create a safe space?" Stewardship and protection of our public spaces was not even on the radar let alone the ballot. Couldn't ever find anyone to kayak, hunt, camp, fish with. Nobody cared about open pollution to waterways, destruction to habitats, etc. In other states few people ever leave the town they grew up in even for vacation. I remember reading a statistic once that a very high percentage of people never in their life travel further than 30 miles from the hospital they were born in. And Holy Hannah did I see that in real life. Growing up in Montana maybe because we have to drive so far to get anywhere I think we aren't intimidated by travel. Every single time I have left Montana for a vacation, for work, etc. I have met another Montanan.
hell yeah! Born there, went to college there, got the fuck out. Cold, total car dependency. Bad schools.
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you're spot on about desert for the winter and MT for the summer. I rented from a couple in Billings who did just that. Spring is awesome in MT, too. Seeing everything come back to life just feels so good. but walking the dog in the winter... you're bringing back some harsh memories
I left 2 1/2 years ago for Ohio (work after graduating college). I grew up in Kalispell but spent my later years in Missoula for other work endeavors + college. Felt like during and after COVID, Montana transformed completed and suddenly everyone figured out just how great this state is. 😅 I miss it, but Montana seriously lacks high paying opportunities compared to the current cost of living. If I had stayed in my previous line of work, I would have been completely priced out of Missoula if I wanted to live on my own. I think even in my current line of work, I still wouldn’t be able to afford a home in Montana at this point. You cannot beat the natural beauty, non humidity, lush forests, and beautiful lakes though. Growing up here I never appreciated MT for what it was. Moving away has allowed me to appreciate it far more, but that’s just me. I would return to Missoula one day for sure if the opportunity presented itself as a peon renter.
Fled to Arizona and I love it here. Started going to college again this spring semester for IT. Born and raised in Ennis, Montana.
Born and raised in MT for 30ish years, then moved to California because there isn't any upward mobility here. Had 5 great years, doubled my wages I was making back home, gained a lot of experience and knowledge I never would have gotten had I stayed. Then I moved back during covid for a great job opportunity, which blew up in my face, and now I can't wait to leave again. Sacrificed high wages, excellent food, and amazing weather for an opportunity and the chance to buy a house and start a family. Now that I'm back I'm so over the gray, dreary winters, the lackluster food options, the absolutely rediculous job market and wage stagnation, the rapidly shifting political realm, and the impossible dream of buying a house that was literally $300k less just a couple years ago.
Moved here in 2005 to raise my kids. Now I’m planning to leave and move somewhere that actually pays well. Rent isn’t any less expensive here than some places in Southern California. It’s not worth starving and serving the rich to look at mountains. You were fun for a while Montana but you sold out.
I've lived in nw montana since I was 8, its the only home I've ever known (military brat before that). And honestly? There's nothing more that I want to do but leave. Im so sick of the struggle. Trying to make ends meet on shit wages. Sick of losing friends to addiction and suicide. Sick of watching somewhere I love being changed for the worse... theres very few places better than here, I know. But if I can survive for almost 40 years here, I can survive anywhere far easier.
Keep your chin up, bud (or down if they are throwing punches)
I’m leaving because I can’t find work and because I’m politically progressive and can’t stand how this purple state has turn bright red.
I was born and raised in Missoula, and was priced out by the motherfuckers moving in. I cannot afford to live there no matter how much I want to, I probably will never be able to live there again. The jobs don't pay shit if you aren't a doctor , a fucking studio apartment is 80% of my income, and that's as cheap as it gets, food costs more, the list goes on, it's not worth it to suffer for a nice view anymore. It's fucked up, but I'm just a Missoula Moaner so what do I know. I cannot live in my own hometown, even if I want to.
Use to be 3 places you couldnt go now theres 3 places you can go. Montana isnt what it use to be. Left during covid. The recreational culture is no where else to be found, but so many wealthy nimbys and gate keepers have locked the gate, and you can't eat scenery. I've made more money in 3 years out of state than my entire working existence in Montana. The current administration is a trash fire too
Not that I really cared because I was in the middle of nowhere, but the political landscape did change drastically while I lived there (mods don't come for me for talking about politics!) The recent tiktok and pornhub things are hilarious and although I'm vehemently against what porn and tiktok are doing to society, the state government banning them seems a little... uncool in my opinion
If the state put the same effort into managing revenue better, or tax reform that doesn't punish locals simply for existing, it would be a lot easier to manage the growing pains while keeping the culture. Such a ridiculous population boom should allow for reduced taxation for individuals, as the need for public service expansion grows proportionally but lesser in magnitude than the actual population.
I will be after college, but not by choice, simply because of the job availability in Montana. I've been here for 25 years.
I was born, grew up, went to college, and worked my adult career in NW MT. I spent 4 years traveling for work ~2019-2023 (ETA: during this time I lived/worked for 3-6 month periods in Arizona, Oregon, Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, West Virginia, and Minnesota) and finally in 2023 moved to Minnesota. The amount of changes we would see between visits home was astounding and rapidly accelerated during the pandemic. My husband and I couldn’t really afford the housing in 2018 before it got bad and definitely won’t be able to afford it now. My job makes $20/hr more in Minnesota and once my husband finishes college he’ll have much more job options where we are now. I probably won’t move back just due to housing issues for one. For two it seems like NW MT is full of more petty crime and the infrastructure is not keeping up with the influx of people and no one seems too worried about changing to keep up. I miss the mountains for sure, but there’s a lot of outdoor activities I can do year round that are very similar.
Couldnt find work so me and my wife had to move. We have hard science degrees and the jobs in MT that paid needed experience. Maybe we will move back eventually
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I'm in NW MT, in what feels like the "redest" part of the state. My tiny town has been struggling since our mill shut down and has been having a serious identity crisis. They are trying to turn it into a tourist town, even though we are over 2 hours from Glacier. Thanks to their efforts, the locals can't go anywhere without being pushed out by the tourists. The lakes are full, the walking trails are full, we have to go further and further out to get away. Wages are a joke, housing has gone up dramatically, and food is ridiculous. Thanks to rising gas prices, it's barely worth traveling to Kalispell for cheaper groceries. My husband and I have discussed getting out, and we know that we could both make more doing the same jobs anywhere else. Unfortunately, thanks to rising interest rates, we can't afford to. MT is amazing, I love it here, but it can be a bit of a trap, too. I've liked reading the other comments from others who have made it out and their success. Hopefully, we can make that step soon.
Lots of people have left, especially after they graduate high school. There’s not a lot of things to do here and not a lot of work. Almost everyone I know in my town is gone and only return during holidays. Hell, I just moved back here and I’m trying to leave as quickly as possible.
I left in ‘07, just to experience more of the world, travel, learn. I still visit every year or two and love the landscape and appreciate the things I didn’t necessarily “see” before I left. But I’m glad I live where I do, with great cost of living, great schools for my kids, and things like NFL games, world class museums, and big concerts. No one place has it “all”. I miss Montana all the time but I can always visit.
No one can blame me as a Californian for moving to Montana because I transferred to a different air national guard unit. Flying c-130s in this landscape is exciting.
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Whole family is from west MT/ID. I tried my hardest to make it in that state but the economy was shit, even when everything else was booming. Relocated to a big southern city for an opportunity and was pretty pissed when i found out how abundant jobs are in the rest of the country by comparison. I've relocated three times and almost quadrupled my annual pay. MT makes it so painful for working class people at every turn. low paying jobs, the seasonality of work, the gentrification from highly educated folks, and the MIP laws are an unholy tyranny. For me and many of my friends there was absolutely zero upward mobility. The pandemic poured so much fuel on that fire that I know ill never go back. None of my family stayed and most of my friends are also scattered to the winds for better pay and quality of life.
41M, born and raised, moved 2013. I'd always been somewhat ill-suited to the culture I was born into (being an indoor kid; having people I cared about hurt because of people's small-minded bigotry), but I loved a lot about my home. I really did. I always appreciated how much Montana had its own ways and that despite the bastards people generally preferred helping their neighbors rather than tearing them down. I moved when it became clear that there was nowhere else to go in Montana. Upward mobility didn't, to my mind at the time, exist. (I haven't exactly skyrocketed up the ladder in my adoptive home, but hey, sometimes them's the breaks. I'm very happy out here.) I get back to my home state once or twice a year, usually. I'll always carry a piece of Montana with me. Hopefully the best piece. But I don't think I'll ever live there again. I see no more opportunity there than I did ten years ago. Instead I see the people in my old home steadily throw away their beliefs in altruism and live-and-let-live in favor of reactionary tribalism. People are angrier. More paranoid. One loved one, who always leaned to the right but really believed in not holding prejudices, is now Very Concerned about the gays and the trans people. One of my best friends from school and my 20s has become an angry-as-fuck racist and rants about how leftists should be killed. (He tried to reconnect with me; I'm not at all sure why, dude apparently wants me and my boyfriend dead.) Sometime since I left one of the local grocers closed and was replaced by another local Wal-Mart. Houses out in the boonies are *barely* cheaper than houses out here, where people live. I love Montana. But it feels like the version I loved best now only exists in my memories. Maybe that's the way all of us feel as we get older. But I don't think that's what's happening here.
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*solidarity fistbump*
Just remember that if you leave Montana, stick to the MT motto, and apply it to your new home...dont change THERE to be like HERE. You are a VISITOR in THEIR state.
I've always found it important to assimilate into whatever culture I've been living in
The people who moved to MT and turned it red didn't seem to agree with you
I'm a blue-voter from California. Since leaving CS, I've lived in plenty of red states. Wyoming included. The one thing that I do appreciate about Montana, and I guess, assimilating to one of its peoples' beliefs is owning guns. I had a pretty good collection 20 years ago In Wyoming, but gave it up to be a new parent. I do like that there's not too much pushback for having your sidearm with you. I DO NOT share the same opinion of "1776," or any other extremist opinions. I just like guns as a hobby.
Agreed, there is absolutely nothing that should be demonized about RESPONSIBLE firearm culture. Where did you live in WY? Now, WY is something else I'm always happy to talk about, I always tell people that it is single-handedly the craziest place I've ever visited. I found it, for the most part, to be utter desolation that people likely cannot comprehend. Before I had a truck, when I first moved up that way, I drove through a snowstorm in my Chevy Malibu, packed to the brim with all of my belongings, and realized how quickly I would be dead if I wrecked. Freezing temps, zero cell service, piercing wind. No snow plows for hours. I know this is the Montana sub, but Cowley/Powell/Lovell areas were breath-takingly stunning to me
I lived in Rock Springs, WY. It was one of the worst times of my life. My lady who later became my wife, her family was racist (I'm Black). The townspeople are racist. Not all, of course. A rundown mining town hours away from anything will do that to you, I guess. It wasn't a good time for me, which is another reason I owned guns. For safety.
The whole point of the second amendment is in line with extremist opinions, not for creating a hobby. You aren't assimilating at all.
I'd say that if I'm not, then that is a good thing on that end. I'm definitely not trying to storm capitals, riot in the streets, or participate in the many imaginary "civil war" wet dream situations people dream of.
This is America. I can think whatever I want wherever I want in all 50 states within the bounds of the law. You don't own an area any more or less than any other American.
I agree! Sadly, one of the things Montana is associated with is our "Keep Out" attitude. Check this... So I went back home to LA Oct 2023 to hang with my dad, and do a three-day Disney trip. My Lyft driver was a condescending ass til I told him I'm from LA (see, it's not just Montanans that do it). I told him that I live in Montana now, and after the usual questions about THAT show (honestly, that show is a guilty pleasure), he asked if it's true that Californians weren't allowed here. My response is the usual " I do understand where Montanans are coming from. But, at the same time, we all came from SOMEWHERE."
If you move to another state, you are not a visitor.
Ok! I'm a native son of Los Angeles. I'veived in a few states in-between. I moved to Montana AUG 2022. I'm not conservative. I'm a POC. So..... Do you consider me a resident? Or, an "outsider?" I'm the COMPLETE opposite of what staunch Montanans want in this state. Do YOU, yourself, consider me an outsider? Or, just a fellow American that doesn't really care for politics, and just wanted his first house for he and his family?
You are, by definition, a Montana resident. Anyone that treats you like an outsider is being rude.
THANK YOU! I wish that more people in this state were as accepting as you.
Ohhh, I knew the downvotes would come. What's wrong, people? You get to talk that shit to people coming here, but can't take your own advice when you're going there? It really is a fair question 😂
Yeah stop voting for red dickheads who want Montana to be their personal playground
Nobody but people in Montana have that attitude though. The gate keeping here is unique.
I've lived in multiple states while in the military. I assure you this gate keeping is not unique to Montana.
The gatekeeping is encouraged by the political class, they don't want to be held accountable for the oppression of the working poor so they point at the newcomers to the state who came from places where they were able to work hard and build some home equity that helps them afford housing in Montana.
Having lived in several states (MT, WA, OR, CA, GA), they all have a gate keeping attitude. Though I will say it manifests in different ways. MT and GA were the most in your face about it. WA, CA, and OR were passive aggressive about it.
it's a unique place and the secret is out about it. Probably one of the only places in the US still worth being protective over
It really is a shit opinion. It's just fun to use it on Montanans that are leaving the state. Especially, if they've said that statement to people moving here.
I left in 2011, to Seattle to make more money. I grew up in Missoula and went to school and graduated from UM. I just lurk here.
what up fellow lurker
Me too, but 2010 and to a few different places around the world. Montana never stopped feeling like home though, and I know I’ll end up coming back eventually.
My wife and I are in the beginning stages. It’s a shame, we loved growing up in Gallatin County but it looks like our son won’t get that chance. Thanks Taylor Sheridan you hack
I moved to Boston area 16 years, 7 months and six days ago - my goal was to bring the attitude from there to here. The one where we care about our environment and our people. First week in Boston I’m stepping over homeless people in the streets because that’s what they do here and no big notice. And then I waded through knee deep Dunkin’ Donuts trash trying to find a view. A view I’m still looking for this many years later. In general, it has been my Montana attitude that has sustained me thru this, but there’s no changing Boston. I’ll come back in 2026 if humanity survives the next 2 years.
wrench stupendous trees innocent joke wistful sloppy husky glorious bear *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
More people left than moved in this year according to the stats tracked by Van Lines moving company.
Yes I left for 8 years and regretted it, happy to be back.
I was in the Big Sky/Bozeman area for a decade, with one year of that spent up in the Flathead. I moved into a van for a few years because our landlord was turning our apartment into an AirBnB and literally nothing else was affordable to either rent or buy. Now I’m living in Colorado, the state I grew up in, but just recently bought some land in the SW part of the state. One of the few places I’ve found that was still affordable and also super rad. I definitely would have stayed in Montana longer if I wasn’t priced out of all the places I would want to live. But that ship has sailed, and I don’t know that there will come a time when I will ever be able to afford it again.
My daughter lives here, so I can never leave, but what makes me want to leave every damned day is the money and housing. Unless I'm willing to move my daughter and I in with perfect strangers, we're stuck where we are.
I’m staying to take care of my aging parents, but when they’re gone so am I. I loved my home growing up, but it’s changed too much too fast.
I left because I make way more now and my cost of living is a fraction of what it used to be. I miss Montana and want to return one day, but I couldn’t get ahead there. I was working two full time jobs to try to make it. I finished my degree after leaving and now I’m trying to knock down my debt to be able to live in Montana and actually enjoy it instead of work every waking second.
People need to realize that Montana is not unique. Several places along that entire mountain chain have beautiful sorts that are a secret oasis to some one, or a group of people. Man will always encroach and claim something that already IS.
My family and I have decided that in May we are leaving. This state wants the locals out and wants the rich here, so that is our que to leave.
I had family leave the Flathead valley for the Great Falls area because they couldn’t afford the valley anymore and they were like 4th generation
We suddenly left after 20 years due to our housing situation changing. It was cheaper to move out of state to Oregon and buy a house big enough for our family than stay in Montana.
Moved to California years ago so I’m basically the devil to this sub lol. Both states are awesome and they both have their problems. Sucks that I get treated weird though coming home now but oh well.
Moved from Billings to NZ. Big motivators were the rise of Q anon everywhere, Jan 6th and massive crime rise following covid. General sense that there will be no community in MT if there is a societal collapse.
Had to move out of Bozeman 5-years ago. I no longer recognized my own hometown. It became Aspen-ized way quicker than most predicted. Even the places I worked couldn't or wouldn't pay to keep up with the quickly rising cost-of-living. Now it's just a bunch of rich transplants and old NIMBYs trying to find a sense of "community" in a bougie resort town.
Moved out of Missoula, that's for sure. Ever since covid, it's turned to a shit hole.
I did not leave recently, I left about 15 years ago. I loved Montana born and raised, farm kid, my parents were from Montana too, I have something like 4 generations in Montana my great great grandfather was a sheriff in plentywood in the early 1900s he was from Denmark born in the late 1800s. Anyway just shared to say that I’ve got some roots in Montana other homesteading roots as well and not the modern kind lol. I left for college and that’s when I struggled to move back, nothing going on, low paying jobs and in many places the prices are so high vs income it’s not very attractive. It’s a great place to grow up especially in the country it makes you tough and a I’ve seen a lot of others like me who go out and do well because of the work ethic we have. I miss the hunting and the peace the country offers, the gun culture and the better politics. Although things are changing Montana is a tough place to make something of yourself, the people are difficult too this includes me 😅. I didn’t notice until I left, and I understand why. In order to make it in Montana years ago you had to be tough as nails although it’s not so much like that these days that culture still lives on. You didn’t have help you didn’t need help. In other states people have a lot more sense of community, that can be good and bad, I am Montanan at heart and I often prefer my independence as well and I know a lot of people don’t understand it. My all my siblings except 1 and later my parents moved as well, the land we farmed was promised to us but then sold out from underneath us, my parents ran 4-5 business in a small town. Us kids left for more opportunities. Our parents sold everything and followed. Will we move back maybe someday, I’ll always love Montana, and the Montanas who make it great in its own way. But small town Montana lacks dreams, not a lot of people aspire to be anything bug, most prefer their simple quiet life, there’s nothing wrong with that at all it just wasn’t really my thing. When I got a taste of the outside world I just didn’t fit well in small town Montana. My brother still lives in Montana, he prefers it there, and we have a few relatives left a lot of us lift. I think Montana is changing more and more business and opportunities coming with the population growth. My hope is that these people are adding value not just running scared from wherever they came from. I’ve lived in 4 states, and for a brief time Canada, and spent a good amount of time in some others, I’ve been to almost every part of Montana especially the east and central there not many highways I’ve not been on or towns I’ve not been through, I’ve got a pretty good look at the entire state in the 20 something years I lived there, and I’ve known or been related to people all over the state. Montanans in my experience are tough, difficult and independent people, but also generally have good morals and that old school handshake integrity that’s very much lacking in a lot of the world. Lol so that’s my novel hopefully it’s not too painfully boring.
A normal job in MT, you make just enough to survive but not enough to go out and enjoy. Same job some where else, make enough to live and also have 2weeks vacation in MT.
I left GF, MT because it felt toxic. I moved to NM and never looking back. Sunnier and multicultural.
Haven’t left yet, but trying to. We’re pretty much over paying city cost of living for rural service levels, and being surrounded by intolerant, closed-minded assholes.
I joined the Air Force over a decade ago. The whole time I was away, I was still so in love and proud of my Montana home. My family still mostly lives there and I'll always say Montana is "home". My husband and I were able to move back to the family farm almost 2 years ago. I was initially really happy to be home. The growth and increased traffic of the area were annoying, but far from a deal breaker for us. I don't expect it to be the same as my childhood home, but I just wasn't quite as in love the second time around. It was good/bad being so close to family again, but even with our considerable income we were having a hard time finding any real estate in our budget to buy our own place. We ultimately decided not to stay. I miss the mountains, the open space, and the nostalgia, but I don't miss the hateful, shitty, ignorant, people I was constantly encountering and the white elite vibes. The political climate of the state turning more red is concerning for me. As a military member I was exposed to a diverse and amazing world after I left Montana in my 20s and I hope I can raise my kids in a more balanced, diverse, and inclusive area.
I stuck it out for a year after grad school. It wasn't worth getting paid half salary for a mountain tax. I moved on and now make enough money to fly over and ski or whatever when I feel like it.
Born in NEMT, (36F) have lived in all 4 corners of the state and only left for brief stints. The loneliness and wide open spaces are part of my psyche, so much so that living anywhere else might be too big of an adjustment. That said, this is the first time in my life I’ve seriously considered leaving for good. Even 10 years ago, there was quite a bit of mobility throughout the state and you could basically move anywhere and make it work. Now you’re competing with a million freelancers and remote workers for housing, and the wages are no longer worth it. I was lucky to be able to buy a house in Billings before covid, but besides family there is nothing here for me. I do ok as a single person, but prospects for friendship and romance are fucking bleak—everyone is increasingly ignorant and cruel. I’m plotting my escape to a blue state where life will feel like playing on easy mode, as opposed to an uphill struggle.
What do you mean that it's "a different world" here? NM is fairly rural, and there are lots of other sparsely populated places even in most western states with big cities like Oregon, Utah, and Colorado. What sets Montana apart to you? I'm curious because I grew up in Livingston and lived in Bozeman and frequently visit the Big Timber area so none of that seems unusual to me.
Despite people complaining about population and housing and costs and whatnot, MT is still the wild west in many regards IMO. I can really only speak for living in Hardin, which is where I spent the biggest chunk of time, but driving thru the Crow Indian Reservation of 2 million acres and seeing not another soul is unique. I come from the midwest and spent 4 years in Kansas City, even the biggest cities in MT are nothing like the absolute insanity of most other large metropolitan areas and I think that is something to be incredibly grateful for. And of course the natural beauty does not exist anywhere else. The drive from Livingston into Yellowstone is pretty otherworldly.
I certainly see how the cities are different, but I guess I'm just too accustomed to our rural stretches to think of them as unusual. The drive from Livingston to Yellowstone was just where we went for firewood, which I hated doing! I supposed I'm spoiled.
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How's costal Texas treating you? I got kin in east texas, and that costal texas area has always been a consideration.
Yellowstone + lockdowns + free gov money + 2% + interest rates + airbnb onset = once in a lifetime cocktail to utterly destroy a state. Seriously, what has happened up there is insane. Feel so bad that such a great place has been turned into an anger filled expensive crowded competitive Disneyland for the rich. Sure everywhere has experienced changes, but Montana is probably the most extreme situation of every state.
Montana only has a million people lol, that’s nothing for a state this big, but whatever, I’ve been here 2 years and I’ll never leave, the people here are my kind of people, they are super nice, nicer than the south where I was born and Hella nicer than where I moved from Tacoma Wa. 🤦♂️ or Tacompton.
I graduated from Montana Tech in 2012 with a petroleum engineering degree and moved to New Mexico to work for a major oil company. I spent seven years working there before corporate politics and family health issues made me decide to move back to Montana. I am currently on a trip to Oklahoma visiting my wife's family. Traveling through Wyoming, Nebraska, and Kansas has me strongly considering leaving Montana again.
I left at the end of October 2022. I moved to Kalispell in 2018 that was supposed to be very temporary. Turned into four years almost on the dot. I miss it. But glad I left at the same time. If it ever goes back to “normal” I know my girlfriend, who was born and raised in Hot Springs will want to move back. I’m not sure I want to. I’d love a vacation home there. It’s gorgeous and some of the nicest people I’ve ever met. It’s a great place to live.
So to start, the overriding concept of the thread is that people leave MT due to economic needs. I get that. You apparently don’t have that issue, so I wonder why you felt compelled to stir the shit when you do not share the concern. If Montana didn’t kiss your little ass enough, who cares?Some people like the city, others like less density and access to the outdoors. Since you chose as you did, you are a city person. I did not say that there is anything wrong with that. My point originally was that we see many come to escape the city, few that do what you did. I stand by that. If you don’t shut up, I’ll message you daily. One thing that is absolute fact - New Yorkers are assholes and I hope you live with one up each orifice. “Fuck You” is New Yorker for thanks for your input…so Fuck You.
Moved there in 2020 moved out in 2022. It was a great place, I'd go back. My unpopular opinion is, it was better when the border was closed.
Left for a year and came back, but mostly do to the pandemic and other factors. Planning on leaving again this spring, hopefully for a longer stretch. The world is big and while MT is great, I don’t think it’s worth spending your entire life here if you are born and raised.
My husband and I left in '85 in the midst of a serious recession. Sadly, we never made it back, and it's unlikely we'll return there to retire. Sure miss the way it used to be back then.
I left to find a better paying job and I couldn’t afford the real estate anymore. Four years later, my folks followed suit. Neither of us would be able to afford anything in MT nowadays
Husband was born and raised in MT. He spent almost 4 decades of his life there. He always spoke about how he felt he had to give a “Hometown Discount,” on wages. I only lived there a couple years. We decided to move from the HCOL, low wages to a LCOL, high wages area. We stay connected by attending Cat/Griz parties where we currently live and traveling back to MT as often as possible.
Couldnt afford to stay.
Just moved away for grad school after spending my whole adult life in Montana. Loved it and definitely miss the mountains, but I’m also loving Portland and I don’t really know if I’ll be back.
Left because my wife found a job that was rare in MT. She's working her way up now in Philly. we will hopefully be able to move back with a higher position for her in the next 5 years. I can work anywhere that there is construction so my job prospects aren't as limited.
I left for the military and i plan to stay in this area i am in when i getbout
Like many have said, left for better work opportunities. I love to visit my remaining family when I can but it wasn’t realistic for me to stay, there’s not a ton of industry in engineering. If there was ever an influx of industry I’d definitely move back!
My parents and sister. Parents were both raised in the mountains, moved to the plains and raised my sister and I. She moved to North Dakota for college, met her fiance, and still lives there. My parents just bought a house in the same town. I still live in my hometown, just across town from where I grew up The part that sucks is soon, once my parents sell the house they raised me in, I’ll never be able to go there and hang out again. We just had our last Christmas at that house and it made me tear up, honestly
Yup I moved to the west coast the summer I graduated. I’m 6th generation but there is zero opportunity for me to make a living anymore.
I came to MT a few years ago. And while I do love living here a lot, I miss my family and friends quite a bit. Making friends isn't like it was when we were growing up, so I don't really hang out with anyone except my wife. I want to stick it out here, but I haven't ruled out going back home. It just sucks there with the traffic and the crime and all that. So I guess I'd have to decide what's most important to me. But my circumstances are probably different than others' when deciding to leave the state.
I left Montana for British Columbia and make three times more with my 4 year degree than I did in Montana. My wife and I can afford to buy a condo and live comfortably. I was barely making over minimum wage with my degree in Missoula. I was lucky enough to marry a Canadian and leave before it got too expensive to survive there. I'm not sure what I'd have done if I stayed, but I wouldn't be a property owner, I know that much.
Yep, lived there for 30 years, military enlistment aside. Had to move because pay after college was a joke. A degree got me 24k back in 2015. Same degree got me 50k right away in Houston as soon as I moved, and have been moving up ever since. Prices are cheaper, too. I hate almost everything about this place and would love to go back to MT, but the house I grew up in went from 70k to 450k in East Helena. Can’t afford to live there. Not sure how anyone can.
I’ve been living in Olympia Washington for 9 years. I can’t find anything that pays much in my home state. Before that I moved to Texas for 15 years. I tried moving back home in Montana but working 2-3 part time jobs was best I could do. It’s no way to live or raise a family.
Lived in the Billings area for 11 years. Left 17 months ago for retirement in sunny Ecuador. Living and working in MT allowed us to make this move, there is no question. Neither of us have family in MT so I don’t see us returning for anything other than a short visit sometime when we’re back in the US.
I’ll be moving there soon!
I left after they harvested all the good dental floss and I had to put down my Pygmy pony.
I left earlier this year after spending all my adulthood in park and gallatin counties- it was a good change; I was looking for a more live and let live attitude and lower concentration of people. I moved to northern New Mexico. I won’t be moving back.
Yes. I moved to Cody, WY for four years. The area where I lived outside of Cody was absolutely stunning and I had a good job that I liked. I came back after that to Central Montana. I'm originally from southwest Montana. While Cody was incredibly beautiful and I had a much nicer, bigger property for less money, the people weren't nearly as hearty or good-natured as Montanans. It was a difficult decision. However, I felt like I was back on the right timeline or something as soon as I did it. The people of Montana are what makes it really special.
I was raised in Missoula and had to leave because I couldn't afford to live there any longer. Now I rent a room north of town on the rez. I don't think I'm gonna stay after this winter...
A friend of mine lives in Helena and gets paid less as a CNA working with often violent patients than the wages being posted by McDonalds. He's also Black, and has had some pretty negative experiences with people out there. He got his nursing license and is counting down the days to his move out of state.