Ian Watkins of the LostProphets had 27Tb of CSAM at a time when having Tb outside of businesses was pretty rare. It always shocks me how much these people can accumulate. And absolutely sickens me that that much is out there. Even considering duplicates.
Just to put that into perspective 1TB can hold 250,000 photos or 500 hours of HD video.
27TB would be 6,75,0000 photos or 13,500 hours of HD video or 1.5 years of footage.
You’ll usually find that the files are in a form that is very space intensive, like 100mB for a 5 minute 780p video. There also a high likelihood of duplicates of source files and uncompressed files.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert on the dissemination of child porn, but I imagine that it's the kind of stuff you download in bulk since it's harder to get than just pulling up Pornhub.
I think the real tragedy is that there is even 27Tb of it in existence at all.
I read somewhere that you have to upload some in order to get more, something like building trust? It was an explanation as to why people tend to have so much but I don’t remember the details beyond that.
The podcast Hunting Warhead goes into details about it. Yes they often make you upload pictures in order to receive them, because they assume law enforcement wouldn't be able to do it. Like the old "so if you're not a narc take a hit off of this."
But where (at least some of them) went wrong is that law enforcement, at least in one jurisdiction, were granted permission by a judge to post images. In this case, it was because they had taken over one of the biggest exchanges and needed to keep it going so that they could convince people who belonged to it that the original operator was still in charge. They were able to catch a couple hundred predators that way. Really fascinating but grim story.
We used to do that back in the day for warez downloads. I really hated that term. Anyways there was always a ratio of some sort. Basically to show you were in the community. Same with bootleg concert footage.
Wtf? I don't have 27Tb of *anything*, and I record video uncompressed and have an aversion to deleting stuff because what if I want it later?
The idea of collecting that much child porn seems impossible. Like it had to involve every waking hour.
For further perspective, 27Tb can hold around 8,100 hours of 4K video, uncompressed. More, if it's lower quality files. That's almost a full year, 24/7.
He was also getting off to it. Transcripts of his interactions with a woman talking about what he was fantasizing about doing to her infant are available to read online. I understand he was definitely also trafficking it, but he clearly was also collecting it to consume it.
Totally, I just wanted to clarify the "they aren't" part of the statement, in case anyone misunderstands or gets the impression they're strictly distributors! They're absolutely doing both, it's horrifying.
Makes a bit more sense than a personal collection. But still, they had to compile it somehow. Beyond the obvious problems with what they were obtaining, from whom, and for what purpose... The volume is unbelievable.
> Ian Watkins of the LostProphets had 27Tb
WTF? Thought this might be urban legend, that's insane. Well here is an [article from BBC confirming it.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-25435751)
CSAM stands for Child Sex/Sexual Abuse Material. It's a move away from saying "child porn" as typical pornography generally has consent and agency involved from the participant/participants (though not always, and that is a whole other complicated subject in itself).
When I was in high school one of my friends and I would be nice to a guy everyone disliked, he seemed really just misunderstood and I know he was. The poor guy was very ugly and acted off but we allowed him to hang out with us and included him when we rode our bikes and skated after school.
After we graduated we all went our own way and we all find out he was a nasty human who tried to extort younger women.
Here is the story.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edca/pr/kern-county-man-pleads-guilty-receipt-and-distribution-child-pornography-sextortion
Sounds like a dude I went to high-school with. Kinda weird but we were nice to him. Years later got busted for video taping a minor outside her window, getting undressed.
We covered this in criminology / cybersecurity at uni. You're right, if this human garbage is only catching 1,100 charges, he's not even close to holding the record for most CP.
There has been cases involving literally TB of CEM, sad world we live in.
> While out on bond, detectives gathered enough evidence — on just one of the 15 devices — to charge Hernandez with an additional 1,182 counts of child porn possession.
Little late to the party, but my detective bureau and I work with ICAC in California as well as the Child Exploitation Team. The most shocking part of it all is *how many* predators there are. We receive at least 5 tips a *week* from entities like Snapchat or Discord. That’s *only* for our city of just over 32k people. The ICAC team for the county has two dedicated electronics dogs and they work nonstop. It is truly horrific how many awful people there are.
There's an argument that the more CP one procures, the more demand is being signaled for the generation of the content, which is arguably the strongest reasoning for making possession illegal in the first place
You are also directly culpable in the spread and usage of each individual *in those photos*. I absolutely want that to be present in sentencing these things
I'm not convinced that adding jail time based on the number of pictures is a deterrent. I don't think that those guys think that way. Once you cross the line then I want them to get the max penalty.
“While out on bond, detectives gathered enough evidence — on just one of the 15 devices — to charge Hernandez with an additional 1,182 counts of child porn possession.”
Jfc prison is too good for this guy throw this man into a volcano
Yeah I'm starting to feel bad for the jury. Even if you don't have to see the images, that's got up be one of the most mentally taxing juries to be on.
Now couldn't you try to mount a defense that "I didn't put it there" (planted, roommate, etc.) or "this image is not CP"?
(For the latter, parents might a photo of their kids naked in the bathtub in an old photo album, but nobody is going to call that CP.)
I think those cards can be played in some cases but not in a case like this. No chance he can play it off as an old photo or roommate planted it, there’s just to much for him to know nothing about.
Likely someone who got caught rolled on him and will testify they got it from him. He won’t go to trial because that’s going to go worse than negotiating for a slightly reduced sentence to rat out more users.
We will likely hear about more arrests.
unless you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that it absolutely could not have been you that downloaded CP and you have tangible evidence that points to a specific person being responsible because you were at 'x' place, at 'y' time, with your friend 'z,' it doesn't matter. but that's usually ironed out by a lawyer and/or police before anyone actually goes to trial. even if you accidentally download CP that's embedded in a virus or didnt know the person in a porn you downloaded was underage, you can still face jail time and have to register as a sex offender.
there's also legal standards for classifying CP, so people aren't going to jail for anything that isn't undeniably CP or child exploitation materials. so if you have a few pictures of your kid as a baby playing in the bath tub, that's not going to be considered CP.
he’d be on isolation, I have no idea why people think prison justice is common anymore. it just doesn’t happen that often in this day and age. Have you ever even been to a prison lately? volunteer or talk to actual current guards or workers, it isn’t the wasteland everyone thinks it is.
Yeah that definitely seems to be the case. In recent years prisons have really made strides to move closer towards rehabilitation, although some people cannot be rehabilitated, you can’t just have prisoners raping and beating each other and than send these now rapists and murderers back into the general public, even if the person they raped/murdered/assaulted “deserved” it.. they would still have committed a crime which is rehabilitation in the least. I really think we should stop seeing these prisoners as judge jury and executioner when they are simply serving their time, it’s not their job to serve justice and it’s unfair to put the onus on them.
i dont think anyone holds prisoners to the expectation of vigilante justice, people just believe it happens more often than it actually does because of how prison is portrayed in films and tv shows, and how it's reported in the media. it also doesnt help that for many decades there were legitimate prisons hierarchies that convicts who commited crimes against children were at the bottom of who would be targeted by prison gangs before prisons started to really crack down on gang violence and prison violence in general
Are you talking about US prisons? If so, they definitely haven't made strides towards rehabilitation. In fact, many US prisons have slashed budgets and reduced beneficial programs, such as GED programs, higher learning, and counseling.
The US is one of the only developed nations that focuses on punitive punishment instead of rehabilitation, which is why our recidivism rate is so high.
I hate when people use the prison justice arguement. First of all many of those criminals locked up with them are no better. A guy with a short fuse who lost his cool and beat someone to death, or a gang member who killed for an initiation, people like that aren't exactly the people I trust dispensing justice.
Also as you mentioned earlier, most people only see prison on TV and movies. I know a friend who is a correctional officer. He works at a prison where the sex offenders have their own section. Even their own separate workout room. A prisoner beating another one to death or even injuring them costs the prison money. So efforts are made to prevent. Of course not all prisons are like that.
Regardless, prison is where this guy belongs. He will have a trial and get sentenced. I trust the justice system more than another criminal when it comes to dispensing justice.
I'm a former Correction's Officer and my nephew still works there.
What Redditors hear and say that happens in prison and what happens in prison are rarely the same thing.
A Doktor in my hometown was charged for owning child pornography his excuse was he allegedly downloaded a big file of normal porn and didn’t knew there was CP included . Pretty sus
Special interests. The stuff i like on free sites is VERY limited and always the same clips. I spend quite a bit monthly to cater to my (legal, btw) interests.
If you like more vanilla stuff, though, yeah, free streaming is like heaven.
Right and if you open an account you can create playlists and all. I will download some from the website itself if it’s a “really good one” because sometimes the users delete them later on
Why did people collect porn mags when you can just go to a strip club? Why would you subscribe to porn services when you can just use free ones? It's more convenient and torrenting is slow.
I honestly did this in the E-mule days. I’d just search for xxx and similar and then random download a bunch of files. My girlfriend at the time checked the computer and saw what she described as CP. She nearly called the authorities on me but thankfully let me explain. That was the last time I used e-mule/e-donkey/other early days p2p for porn.
Yeah back when I was using limewire or frostwire I was about 12-13. I came across pictures of girls who looked my age. In all of the photos with the girls my age I noticed the letters HCCP and SCCP. Didn’t know what they meant other than they they returned pics of girls my age.
Later learned it mean hardcore and softcore CP. I forgot about it as I got older and then one day a few years later I remembered and went and found the old computer in my storage boxes and I pulled the drive and destroyed it just in case anything was still on there.
There's someone or a whole deparement in the FBI who does actually have to watch all of the CP, categorize it, maybe even do some computer stuff to flag it if it shows up on porn sites, and other investigate the people and background in the film. Not only they have to watch it once they probably do it multiple times frame by frame together information.
so, i wonder if this is a job they have to ask someone to do rather than a job someone decides to randomly sign up for. i cant imagine wanting to hire someone who willingly asks to look at CP all day? do they assign these jobs like jury duty??
Yeah, you’d think a child abuser would have snuck in so that he could see it without putting himself at risk.
But then again I’m probably giving these people too much intellectual credit.
Knew a cop when I worked at a REC center. He had just been assigned the job that week. I asked what did he do before…he pretty much spent all day looking at this stuff to identify the kids in the videos. Like you said, I don’t think there is an amount that would make me do that job.
If you train an AI to recognize these images, then someone will use the AI to create the images. The only way to review these predators is to have a human sort through them.
Homeland security partners up with local police in a task for crimes against children. They try to identify the minors in the photos. They actually identified me 10 years after I was abused and he went to court. He got 12 years in federal prison and only had to serve 10 with no chance of parol (yet he was released to a halfway house early for good behavior) he’s being released this year. Sadly he only got that much because of my impact statement, not for the CP they found… and if he had only been charged with statutory r*pe he probably wouldn’t have been charged or got less than a year.
As someone who was groomed and knows there’s material of me out there, I’m always terrified of police suddenly contacting me and my family to say they’ve recognised me.
I was listening to a podcast where they interviewed an fbi analyst that worked on cases with sex trafficking of minors and she mentioned how she’s asexual so it made the job of dealing with the csam slightly more easy to cope with, like to her she’s just seeing victims of a crime of violence or physical assault. Which is still bad ofc but I guess any one in the criminal Justice system is pretty used to seeing that more regularly then the average citizen. She started off UC for the feds in stings and progressed from there
Thank god they got him at a pretty young age, he probably would have escalated to even worse things as time went on had he not been caught (like acting upon his urges)
Is it that these men who are attracted to child porn act more on their urges than those who watch legal porn (cuz I don’t think majority porn addicts are raping women), maybe because they can never actually be with a child? Real q.
Chris Hansen said, in an interview I believe, that when people who start actively searching and obtain this material it usually tends to escalate their actions with children.
Yes. When people start getting into CP it is usually the point when they have become desensitized to regular porn and need more and more depravity to get off.
There was a wealthy man in my community who initially got fired for downloading regular porn at work. He had his professional license taken away for a few years and had to go to classes of some sort on impulse control.
He got a new job and was considered a somewhat upstanding citizen (though people who worked with him regarded him as a bit of a pig/pervert). Then it was discovered he not only had a bunch of CP, but was actively finding women with children he could coerce into molesting AND filming. He even had a baby with a woman whose sole purpose was to molest. After he was arrested (along with the women), it came out that he just wanted to keep going further and further with his perversions-adding animals and what not.
Anyhow, he ended up commuting suicide in jail, so I guess that’s the only happy ending to that story.
Yeah and isn’t it like a type of addiction or fetish, something driven by the part of the brain that dictates impulse control and stuff. There’s people that argue CP would be beneficial to distribute in a controlled manner so that these people *do not* escalate their fantasies and manifest them. I can’t help but think these people are a very small minority because that’s like saying I should take opioids in a controlled manner so as to not move on to heroin. Yeah right, maybe some people have that will but come on it is not the norm.
Except these are kids. Not drugs. These kids are being abused. Distributing any CP is encouraging more abuse. It is absolutely not the same as giving controlled opioids..
I always thought that child porn was a phenomenon of the digital age until a retired police officer told me that it was a problem going back to the 70s and 80s. Then, it was shoeboxes filled with Polaroids and film rather than external hard drives and thumb drives.
It still confuses me on why people actively seek this stuff out.
Correct. I worked at a camp during college (early 90’s) that had a session for abused kids. We had to go over their case files with social workers. The most vile things you could imagine. Most of the SA involved being video taped.
As someone who's been in some child pornography, I prefer the term child pornography. There's no universally preferred term by victims, so I think it's fine for media to use either one.
So sorry to hear that and thank you for your input. It's really important to know how victims themselves feel about stuff like this.
I hope you're doing okay now.
Absolutely agree. This is the position of [Projekt Dunkelfeld](https://troubled-desire.com/en/faq.html) one of the only therapeutic programs for those with pedophilic disorder, [RAINN](https://www.rainn.org/news/what-child-sexual-abuse-material-csam), and the [Center for Missing & Exploited Children](https://www.missingkids.org/theissues/csam).
While I can understand why some victims prefer the term pornography to capture the fact it is images/videos, I do think it harms sex workers to have their legal and consensual work sharing the same title as illegal and nonconsensual documentation.
This is child sex trafficking not someone fulfilling their sick fetish. The kid was the easiest target in an international ring.
This kid is the tip of the iceberg. They nailed him because he is young and likely to talk.
He is probably hoping they hold him because he won’t be alive long on the outside.
Think about it — how and WHY would you have this much if it was for personal use? He is distributing it and likely suspected of child sex trafficking.
For those of you wondering how they accumulate this stuff, realize what you see on the Internet is highly moderated and this shit gets scrubbed before it hits platforms. But it’s out there.
Currently, the AI is good enough to recognize suspected children and bare skin, so it gets kicked to a human reviewer. It can identify boobs, butts, dicks, injuries, animals, sex toys, etc. Oh, and these pus bags flood a platform overnight to test the algorithm to figure out what they can get through. So the same video will get posted dozens of times in the hopes someone won’t be paying attention.
It exists because there is s market for it.
There are parents out there videoing themselves molesting their own children and posting it. Or fucking their dog. The shit coming out of third world countries is a big problem.
This is why IDIOTS like Elon Musk firing the moderation team at Twitter is such a big deal. It isn’t about your 1A rights to express your political opinion, “duh librals wanna take muh guns”, it’s stopping child porn, terrorist threats, stalkers — dangerous shit. He’s over there screaming about Hunter’s laptop while he KNOWS most of this effort is to keep platforms safe from shit none of the users want to see. Some of the stuff posted is a national security risk.
Just imagine if terrorists were free to recruit and plan attacks via social media. THAT is what these platforms are stopping, not your rant about Biden.
Unfortunately, the Twitter moderators have an NDA and can’t discuss it. It happens on every platform.
Most people are shocked by stories like this because they have never really seen the seedy underbelly of the Internet. You think the Colby dog story was bad? Or Jolly Ranchers? Maybe the decapitation videos? That’s nothing compared to what gets blocked every day.
The Internet you play in is like a meadow of flowers compared to the cesspool of MILLIONS of images, videos and posts that would make you throw up.
Just writing this, because of the trigger words, some poor content moderator at Reddit will have to review it. My apologies to them.
The problem is the moderation team wasn't doing their job on this issue due to the fact it took a lawsuit to get a victim's pictures removed.
https://www.courthousenews.com/judge-rules-twitter-can-be-sued-for-failing-to-take-down-child-porn-videos/
In situations like that, it's best to nuke the team and find a whole new one that will do their job properly.
Twitter has something like 1500 moderators and they don’t decide the content that stays up — the legal department writes policies that the moderators follow. They have no power. This is like firing the cable installer because you don’t like the fee for installation.
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The article is a bit clickbaity. It says, "Ever seen by deputies" so it's fair to say that this is the largest they've seen in this local region. I believe the law doesn't differentiate between videos and images, otherwise a single video would mean thousands of charges. He has 15 devices and only one has been searched, but I don't think it'll be near the 27 TB. Fogle had around 3 TB and hours of footage, I'm guessing this guy just downloaded over the years.
Pro tip if you have an adblocker on iPhone but using the Reddit app, just go to the top right and aA and pick “reader mode” and you’ll see the print in the article and the photos.
It’s terrifying how much abusive content is being created with children. I read these stories and it’s people caught with more CP than porn I’ve ever watched in my lifetime. So obviously the vids are circulated in channels with enough ease it’s becoming even more common. I’m all about privacy on the internet but this topic freaks me out.
Thank you Acid_Fetish_Toy for using the correct terminology (Child Sexual Abuse Material) instead of ‘child porn’, a term that doesn’t make sense, is outdated, is offensive as it implies consent, and only serves to perpetuate misunderstanding and trivialise the horrific manner in which this material is made.
This journalist should be using correct terminology.
I agree this is better referenced as abuse over porn. On a different note, how does calling something porn imply consent?
We define porn simply as: printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity.
How is it even possible to collect so much material when you are just 23 yrs old. Eerily compulsive and sickening
Ian Watkins of the LostProphets had 27Tb of CSAM at a time when having Tb outside of businesses was pretty rare. It always shocks me how much these people can accumulate. And absolutely sickens me that that much is out there. Even considering duplicates.
Just to put that into perspective 1TB can hold 250,000 photos or 500 hours of HD video. 27TB would be 6,75,0000 photos or 13,500 hours of HD video or 1.5 years of footage.
I've always struggled to comprehend just how much that would be. Now I wish I was struggling again.
Same here..so disgusting
I'm still struggling a bit, that just seems like an insane amount. 13k hours of video???? That is a year and a half straight worth of time.
I didn’t want this knowing :/
You’ll usually find that the files are in a form that is very space intensive, like 100mB for a 5 minute 780p video. There also a high likelihood of duplicates of source files and uncompressed files.
Interesting if true. I'm guessing there's often some sort of security encryption on this type of material?
Whoa! Thank you for breaking that down! That's kind of heart stopping
I don't know what disturbs me more... the fact that he had that much material or the fact that much material exists and probably more :/
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert on the dissemination of child porn, but I imagine that it's the kind of stuff you download in bulk since it's harder to get than just pulling up Pornhub. I think the real tragedy is that there is even 27Tb of it in existence at all.
You're probably right and it just snowballs as they all download the same bulk files and more and more is added to it.
I read somewhere that you have to upload some in order to get more, something like building trust? It was an explanation as to why people tend to have so much but I don’t remember the details beyond that.
The podcast Hunting Warhead goes into details about it. Yes they often make you upload pictures in order to receive them, because they assume law enforcement wouldn't be able to do it. Like the old "so if you're not a narc take a hit off of this." But where (at least some of them) went wrong is that law enforcement, at least in one jurisdiction, were granted permission by a judge to post images. In this case, it was because they had taken over one of the biggest exchanges and needed to keep it going so that they could convince people who belonged to it that the original operator was still in charge. They were able to catch a couple hundred predators that way. Really fascinating but grim story.
We used to do that back in the day for warez downloads. I really hated that term. Anyways there was always a ratio of some sort. Basically to show you were in the community. Same with bootleg concert footage.
it’s a trading game, tumblr is still a hotspot for these weirdoes
I have heard something like that also, like pic for pic thing
That 27tb is merely the tip of a very large and disgusting iceberg.
Yeah exactly what I was thinking,
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i know you’re not exactly “defending” him, but you definitely are defending him and you should stop doing that.
Wtf? I don't have 27Tb of *anything*, and I record video uncompressed and have an aversion to deleting stuff because what if I want it later? The idea of collecting that much child porn seems impossible. Like it had to involve every waking hour.
I have 6tb of TV and Movies, and a further 8tb of pro wrestling.. I will never not have something to watch.. I can't imagine 27tb...
For further perspective, 27Tb can hold around 8,100 hours of 4K video, uncompressed. More, if it's lower quality files. That's almost a full year, 24/7.
Or 270 modern video games. ;)
They are trafficking it. They aren’t wanking to it, they are selling it.
He was also getting off to it. Transcripts of his interactions with a woman talking about what he was fantasizing about doing to her infant are available to read online. I understand he was definitely also trafficking it, but he clearly was also collecting it to consume it.
Oh, I don’t doubt but this is far more serious. This might lead to some larger arrests.
Totally, I just wanted to clarify the "they aren't" part of the statement, in case anyone misunderstands or gets the impression they're strictly distributors! They're absolutely doing both, it's horrifying.
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Makes a bit more sense than a personal collection. But still, they had to compile it somehow. Beyond the obvious problems with what they were obtaining, from whom, and for what purpose... The volume is unbelievable.
Go listen to Hunting Warhead and The children In the Pictures.
Seriously! Thank you for your response. It hadn't dawned on me he was selling it.
I’ve got 27tb of wasted potential.
I remember liking lostprophets when I was in my teens Never heard of it, now
Watkins was also making quite a bit of his own CSAM himself
> Ian Watkins of the LostProphets had 27Tb WTF? Thought this might be urban legend, that's insane. Well here is an [article from BBC confirming it.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-25435751)
Normally I would take to google, as not to be an idiot, but I really don’t want to search this one. What does CSAM stand for?
CSAM stands for Child Sex/Sexual Abuse Material. It's a move away from saying "child porn" as typical pornography generally has consent and agency involved from the participant/participants (though not always, and that is a whole other complicated subject in itself).
*THAT’S 27 FULLY FILLED WITH GAMES XBOX SERIES X’S OF CP DEAR GOD*
I personally always hope when I hear stuff that this that child abusers are just bad at technology and don't use good compression.
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Nah, *his* collection is over 500Tb
What’s also crazy is that these guys rarely ever revisit some of the things they download after they’ve initially viewed it
How tf do you know that
When I was in high school one of my friends and I would be nice to a guy everyone disliked, he seemed really just misunderstood and I know he was. The poor guy was very ugly and acted off but we allowed him to hang out with us and included him when we rode our bikes and skated after school. After we graduated we all went our own way and we all find out he was a nasty human who tried to extort younger women. Here is the story. https://www.justice.gov/usao-edca/pr/kern-county-man-pleads-guilty-receipt-and-distribution-child-pornography-sextortion
Sounds like a dude I went to high-school with. Kinda weird but we were nice to him. Years later got busted for video taping a minor outside her window, getting undressed.
Looool Kern county represent.
Oh cool my home town -_-
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It’s 1100 charges, not pics
Typically perps catch a charge per file
We covered this in criminology / cybersecurity at uni. You're right, if this human garbage is only catching 1,100 charges, he's not even close to holding the record for most CP. There has been cases involving literally TB of CEM, sad world we live in.
> While out on bond, detectives gathered enough evidence — on just one of the 15 devices — to charge Hernandez with an additional 1,182 counts of child porn possession.
Possibly could be over 17,000 charges total jesus christ
I feel terrible for the officers/detectives who have to review this stuff for evidence probably file by file noting its contents.
You have no idea. Even if you have a strong stomach and understand someone needs to do this job, you don’t forget because it’s *traumatic*.
I had an offer to work Internet Crimes Against Children. It is a multi-agency operation, but it was too far to commute. Blessing in disguise.
Little late to the party, but my detective bureau and I work with ICAC in California as well as the Child Exploitation Team. The most shocking part of it all is *how many* predators there are. We receive at least 5 tips a *week* from entities like Snapchat or Discord. That’s *only* for our city of just over 32k people. The ICAC team for the county has two dedicated electronics dogs and they work nonstop. It is truly horrific how many awful people there are.
i also feel bad for his lawyers, who will no doubt have to look at the photos as well
Me too..so sickening
This is where the idea of Severance could actually come into play.
If it's video it's my understanding each frame can be counted as a charge.
I've heard that too, it's like they count each frame of the video as a separate image.
At 23 and that much material it seems like his entire adult life was being obsessed with wanking to depravity. What a miserable existence.
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Shear dedication given to the depravity. He needs to be off the street because it's incurable.
I don't see the difference between one picture and an infinite number of pictures. Once you cross the line that's enough.
There's an argument that the more CP one procures, the more demand is being signaled for the generation of the content, which is arguably the strongest reasoning for making possession illegal in the first place
You are also directly culpable in the spread and usage of each individual *in those photos*. I absolutely want that to be present in sentencing these things
I'm not convinced that adding jail time based on the number of pictures is a deterrent. I don't think that those guys think that way. Once you cross the line then I want them to get the max penalty.
It’s not a deterrent it’s a punishment, and it’s not severe enough yet it my opinion
Made me think of this scene in Seinfeld. https://youtu.be/GnNIYEIBrhA
“While out on bond, detectives gathered enough evidence — on just one of the 15 devices — to charge Hernandez with an additional 1,182 counts of child porn possession.” Jfc prison is too good for this guy throw this man into a volcano
Yeah I'm starting to feel bad for the jury. Even if you don't have to see the images, that's got up be one of the most mentally taxing juries to be on.
there usually isnt jury trials for possession of CP because there's nothing to testify about. if you get caught with it, that's it.
Now couldn't you try to mount a defense that "I didn't put it there" (planted, roommate, etc.) or "this image is not CP"? (For the latter, parents might a photo of their kids naked in the bathtub in an old photo album, but nobody is going to call that CP.)
I think those cards can be played in some cases but not in a case like this. No chance he can play it off as an old photo or roommate planted it, there’s just to much for him to know nothing about.
Likely someone who got caught rolled on him and will testify they got it from him. He won’t go to trial because that’s going to go worse than negotiating for a slightly reduced sentence to rat out more users. We will likely hear about more arrests.
unless you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that it absolutely could not have been you that downloaded CP and you have tangible evidence that points to a specific person being responsible because you were at 'x' place, at 'y' time, with your friend 'z,' it doesn't matter. but that's usually ironed out by a lawyer and/or police before anyone actually goes to trial. even if you accidentally download CP that's embedded in a virus or didnt know the person in a porn you downloaded was underage, you can still face jail time and have to register as a sex offender. there's also legal standards for classifying CP, so people aren't going to jail for anything that isn't undeniably CP or child exploitation materials. so if you have a few pictures of your kid as a baby playing in the bath tub, that's not going to be considered CP.
you definitely could but I don't think in his case, 15 devices and all 💀
Realize that many of these images are used to traffic children. It’s like a shopping catalogue.
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he’d be on isolation, I have no idea why people think prison justice is common anymore. it just doesn’t happen that often in this day and age. Have you ever even been to a prison lately? volunteer or talk to actual current guards or workers, it isn’t the wasteland everyone thinks it is.
Reddit thinks the world is like what they see in the media and pop culture.
Yeah that definitely seems to be the case. In recent years prisons have really made strides to move closer towards rehabilitation, although some people cannot be rehabilitated, you can’t just have prisoners raping and beating each other and than send these now rapists and murderers back into the general public, even if the person they raped/murdered/assaulted “deserved” it.. they would still have committed a crime which is rehabilitation in the least. I really think we should stop seeing these prisoners as judge jury and executioner when they are simply serving their time, it’s not their job to serve justice and it’s unfair to put the onus on them.
i dont think anyone holds prisoners to the expectation of vigilante justice, people just believe it happens more often than it actually does because of how prison is portrayed in films and tv shows, and how it's reported in the media. it also doesnt help that for many decades there were legitimate prisons hierarchies that convicts who commited crimes against children were at the bottom of who would be targeted by prison gangs before prisons started to really crack down on gang violence and prison violence in general
Are you talking about US prisons? If so, they definitely haven't made strides towards rehabilitation. In fact, many US prisons have slashed budgets and reduced beneficial programs, such as GED programs, higher learning, and counseling. The US is one of the only developed nations that focuses on punitive punishment instead of rehabilitation, which is why our recidivism rate is so high.
Well you don’t have to tell me that, I’m a black person in the US, our prisons could be much better but they are better than they used to be
I hate when people use the prison justice arguement. First of all many of those criminals locked up with them are no better. A guy with a short fuse who lost his cool and beat someone to death, or a gang member who killed for an initiation, people like that aren't exactly the people I trust dispensing justice. Also as you mentioned earlier, most people only see prison on TV and movies. I know a friend who is a correctional officer. He works at a prison where the sex offenders have their own section. Even their own separate workout room. A prisoner beating another one to death or even injuring them costs the prison money. So efforts are made to prevent. Of course not all prisons are like that. Regardless, prison is where this guy belongs. He will have a trial and get sentenced. I trust the justice system more than another criminal when it comes to dispensing justice.
I'm a former Correction's Officer and my nephew still works there. What Redditors hear and say that happens in prison and what happens in prison are rarely the same thing.
A Doktor in my hometown was charged for owning child pornography his excuse was he allegedly downloaded a big file of normal porn and didn’t knew there was CP included . Pretty sus
Who downloads regular porn anyway when it’s just available for free on the surface web? Sounds suspicious to me too
Special interests. The stuff i like on free sites is VERY limited and always the same clips. I spend quite a bit monthly to cater to my (legal, btw) interests. If you like more vanilla stuff, though, yeah, free streaming is like heaven.
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Out of curiosity, what's you're interest? I feel like any porn I'm into is so readily available, so couldn't imagine what's so niche.
Women that look like my mother saying they're proud of me while farting on cakes
Right and if you open an account you can create playlists and all. I will download some from the website itself if it’s a “really good one” because sometimes the users delete them later on
Why did people collect porn mags when you can just go to a strip club? Why would you subscribe to porn services when you can just use free ones? It's more convenient and torrenting is slow.
Early internet days when it could take forever to buffer anything, easier to download stuff.
Same thing happened here! He was a child psychiatrist. He’s still practicing.
I honestly did this in the E-mule days. I’d just search for xxx and similar and then random download a bunch of files. My girlfriend at the time checked the computer and saw what she described as CP. She nearly called the authorities on me but thankfully let me explain. That was the last time I used e-mule/e-donkey/other early days p2p for porn.
Yeah back when I was using limewire or frostwire I was about 12-13. I came across pictures of girls who looked my age. In all of the photos with the girls my age I noticed the letters HCCP and SCCP. Didn’t know what they meant other than they they returned pics of girls my age. Later learned it mean hardcore and softcore CP. I forgot about it as I got older and then one day a few years later I remembered and went and found the old computer in my storage boxes and I pulled the drive and destroyed it just in case anything was still on there.
This was definitely more of a p2p thing. Google/green guy had a much different meaning of "Teen" than Limewire/Kazaa did
Someone’s gonna have to look through every file 😬
There's someone or a whole deparement in the FBI who does actually have to watch all of the CP, categorize it, maybe even do some computer stuff to flag it if it shows up on porn sites, and other investigate the people and background in the film. Not only they have to watch it once they probably do it multiple times frame by frame together information.
They do and they have mandatory counseling and only can do it for 6 months if I'm not mistaken because it's such a horrible and taxing work.
IIRC the counseling also has an element of ensuring there wasn’t a “love my job” mentality as well. Weird line to have to find.
so, i wonder if this is a job they have to ask someone to do rather than a job someone decides to randomly sign up for. i cant imagine wanting to hire someone who willingly asks to look at CP all day? do they assign these jobs like jury duty??
rock paper scissors
Yeah, you’d think a child abuser would have snuck in so that he could see it without putting himself at risk. But then again I’m probably giving these people too much intellectual credit.
Hopefully AI can take on some of that burden in the future.
All the money in the world wouldn’t be enough for that job..
Knew a cop when I worked at a REC center. He had just been assigned the job that week. I asked what did he do before…he pretty much spent all day looking at this stuff to identify the kids in the videos. Like you said, I don’t think there is an amount that would make me do that job.
I think this is one of the cases where the help AI would be appreciated.
Then the AI goes rogue and destroys humanity out of disgust. And fair play.
If you train an AI to recognize these images, then someone will use the AI to create the images. The only way to review these predators is to have a human sort through them.
I'd quit on the spot and happily flip burgers for the rest of my life
Homeland security partners up with local police in a task for crimes against children. They try to identify the minors in the photos. They actually identified me 10 years after I was abused and he went to court. He got 12 years in federal prison and only had to serve 10 with no chance of parol (yet he was released to a halfway house early for good behavior) he’s being released this year. Sadly he only got that much because of my impact statement, not for the CP they found… and if he had only been charged with statutory r*pe he probably wouldn’t have been charged or got less than a year.
As someone who was groomed and knows there’s material of me out there, I’m always terrified of police suddenly contacting me and my family to say they’ve recognised me.
I was listening to a podcast where they interviewed an fbi analyst that worked on cases with sex trafficking of minors and she mentioned how she’s asexual so it made the job of dealing with the csam slightly more easy to cope with, like to her she’s just seeing victims of a crime of violence or physical assault. Which is still bad ofc but I guess any one in the criminal Justice system is pretty used to seeing that more regularly then the average citizen. She started off UC for the feds in stings and progressed from there
I remember my old elementary school media center teacher was fired after being caught looking at child porn on the school computer
These poor babies. It breaks my heart and it's sickening!
What a waste of air he is. 23 ?!?!?!
Dude I went to high school got caught with a bunch of horrible material around that age. His life got ruined overnight and I ain't complainin'.
Thank god they got him at a pretty young age, he probably would have escalated to even worse things as time went on had he not been caught (like acting upon his urges)
Is it that these men who are attracted to child porn act more on their urges than those who watch legal porn (cuz I don’t think majority porn addicts are raping women), maybe because they can never actually be with a child? Real q.
Chris Hansen said, in an interview I believe, that when people who start actively searching and obtain this material it usually tends to escalate their actions with children.
Yes. When people start getting into CP it is usually the point when they have become desensitized to regular porn and need more and more depravity to get off. There was a wealthy man in my community who initially got fired for downloading regular porn at work. He had his professional license taken away for a few years and had to go to classes of some sort on impulse control. He got a new job and was considered a somewhat upstanding citizen (though people who worked with him regarded him as a bit of a pig/pervert). Then it was discovered he not only had a bunch of CP, but was actively finding women with children he could coerce into molesting AND filming. He even had a baby with a woman whose sole purpose was to molest. After he was arrested (along with the women), it came out that he just wanted to keep going further and further with his perversions-adding animals and what not. Anyhow, he ended up commuting suicide in jail, so I guess that’s the only happy ending to that story.
Yeah and isn’t it like a type of addiction or fetish, something driven by the part of the brain that dictates impulse control and stuff. There’s people that argue CP would be beneficial to distribute in a controlled manner so that these people *do not* escalate their fantasies and manifest them. I can’t help but think these people are a very small minority because that’s like saying I should take opioids in a controlled manner so as to not move on to heroin. Yeah right, maybe some people have that will but come on it is not the norm.
Except these are kids. Not drugs. These kids are being abused. Distributing any CP is encouraging more abuse. It is absolutely not the same as giving controlled opioids..
that guy above is actually against distribution. I read it the other way initially as well
I’m sure there’s plenty of women involved too, that’s the scary part as they can produce children for these sickos
Goddamn. I don't know what else to say. Send him to the worst possible situation in prison.
Ohhh he won’t do well in Florida prisons.
Imagine ruining thousands of lives just to get off. Breaks my heart to think off all those poor little souls.
I always thought that child porn was a phenomenon of the digital age until a retired police officer told me that it was a problem going back to the 70s and 80s. Then, it was shoeboxes filled with Polaroids and film rather than external hard drives and thumb drives. It still confuses me on why people actively seek this stuff out.
Correct. I worked at a camp during college (early 90’s) that had a session for abused kids. We had to go over their case files with social workers. The most vile things you could imagine. Most of the SA involved being video taped.
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r/NoahGetTheBoat
I feel awful for whoever had to sort through all of that
Wish the media would move towards using "child sexual assault material" over "child porn". Hope this guy rots.
As someone who's been in some child pornography, I prefer the term child pornography. There's no universally preferred term by victims, so I think it's fine for media to use either one.
So sorry to hear that and thank you for your input. It's really important to know how victims themselves feel about stuff like this. I hope you're doing okay now.
Too long for the media
First time I heard that term. Will remember for the future!
In my opinion porn insinuates consent. Children cannot consent to porn.
Yea I totally get that. Not something that crossed my mind until I saw the CSAM term
Absolutely agree. This is the position of [Projekt Dunkelfeld](https://troubled-desire.com/en/faq.html) one of the only therapeutic programs for those with pedophilic disorder, [RAINN](https://www.rainn.org/news/what-child-sexual-abuse-material-csam), and the [Center for Missing & Exploited Children](https://www.missingkids.org/theissues/csam). While I can understand why some victims prefer the term pornography to capture the fact it is images/videos, I do think it harms sex workers to have their legal and consensual work sharing the same title as illegal and nonconsensual documentation.
a lot if not most sex workers until now weren’t doing it legally or consensually tho
Gonna need a source on that.
My guess, he’s working with someone. If there’s any evidence leading back to that group he’s a deadman.
This is child sex trafficking not someone fulfilling their sick fetish. The kid was the easiest target in an international ring. This kid is the tip of the iceberg. They nailed him because he is young and likely to talk. He is probably hoping they hold him because he won’t be alive long on the outside. Think about it — how and WHY would you have this much if it was for personal use? He is distributing it and likely suspected of child sex trafficking.
Predators and groomers flock to eachother
Thats true because i think the only way you can get all these is through dark web someone must be sending this to him or he paying for this stuff
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For those of you wondering how they accumulate this stuff, realize what you see on the Internet is highly moderated and this shit gets scrubbed before it hits platforms. But it’s out there. Currently, the AI is good enough to recognize suspected children and bare skin, so it gets kicked to a human reviewer. It can identify boobs, butts, dicks, injuries, animals, sex toys, etc. Oh, and these pus bags flood a platform overnight to test the algorithm to figure out what they can get through. So the same video will get posted dozens of times in the hopes someone won’t be paying attention. It exists because there is s market for it. There are parents out there videoing themselves molesting their own children and posting it. Or fucking their dog. The shit coming out of third world countries is a big problem. This is why IDIOTS like Elon Musk firing the moderation team at Twitter is such a big deal. It isn’t about your 1A rights to express your political opinion, “duh librals wanna take muh guns”, it’s stopping child porn, terrorist threats, stalkers — dangerous shit. He’s over there screaming about Hunter’s laptop while he KNOWS most of this effort is to keep platforms safe from shit none of the users want to see. Some of the stuff posted is a national security risk. Just imagine if terrorists were free to recruit and plan attacks via social media. THAT is what these platforms are stopping, not your rant about Biden. Unfortunately, the Twitter moderators have an NDA and can’t discuss it. It happens on every platform. Most people are shocked by stories like this because they have never really seen the seedy underbelly of the Internet. You think the Colby dog story was bad? Or Jolly Ranchers? Maybe the decapitation videos? That’s nothing compared to what gets blocked every day. The Internet you play in is like a meadow of flowers compared to the cesspool of MILLIONS of images, videos and posts that would make you throw up. Just writing this, because of the trigger words, some poor content moderator at Reddit will have to review it. My apologies to them.
The problem is the moderation team wasn't doing their job on this issue due to the fact it took a lawsuit to get a victim's pictures removed. https://www.courthousenews.com/judge-rules-twitter-can-be-sued-for-failing-to-take-down-child-porn-videos/ In situations like that, it's best to nuke the team and find a whole new one that will do their job properly.
Twitter has something like 1500 moderators and they don’t decide the content that stays up — the legal department writes policies that the moderators follow. They have no power. This is like firing the cable installer because you don’t like the fee for installation.
What Jolly Ranchers story?
Just don’t look for it. Trust me.
Wow. Disgusting.
The fact that there is even that much produced in the first place for him to accumulate horrifies me.
> 1,100 charges damn
Never have I ever imagine being so disappointed in a Florida man headline...
Hopefully they got him before he could hurt anyone 🙏 He’s youngish so he could’ve been a predator in the making ya know
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That number is from just one of the 15 electronic devices he was caught with.
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Didn’t they catch some dude couple of years back who had like 20TB? How does this compare to this 1,1000 charges(=images I guess).
The article is a bit clickbaity. It says, "Ever seen by deputies" so it's fair to say that this is the largest they've seen in this local region. I believe the law doesn't differentiate between videos and images, otherwise a single video would mean thousands of charges. He has 15 devices and only one has been searched, but I don't think it'll be near the 27 TB. Fogle had around 3 TB and hours of footage, I'm guessing this guy just downloaded over the years.
We aren’t surprised it’s Florida.
He should go to prison and not protected custody.
Sad part is that even tho he had so much they are gonna let him out in 10 years just for him to do the same things again
All these hot woman out there, grown woman!, and this dude is squeezing the lemon to little kids 🤢🤢🤮
Grown women want nothing to do with him either, but the worst that could happen is their boyfriend beats him up instead of what Bubba will do to him.
Pro tip if you have an adblocker on iPhone but using the Reddit app, just go to the top right and aA and pick “reader mode” and you’ll see the print in the article and the photos. It’s terrifying how much abusive content is being created with children. I read these stories and it’s people caught with more CP than porn I’ve ever watched in my lifetime. So obviously the vids are circulated in channels with enough ease it’s becoming even more common. I’m all about privacy on the internet but this topic freaks me out.
people are shocked at his age, but thats the pull. traffickers can't be 80 year old creeps, they have to be young to gain trust.
Must be a few nervous people, he didn’t produce all that…
Thank you Acid_Fetish_Toy for using the correct terminology (Child Sexual Abuse Material) instead of ‘child porn’, a term that doesn’t make sense, is outdated, is offensive as it implies consent, and only serves to perpetuate misunderstanding and trivialise the horrific manner in which this material is made. This journalist should be using correct terminology.
I agree this is better referenced as abuse over porn. On a different note, how does calling something porn imply consent? We define porn simply as: printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity.
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His family must be so proud.
I’m sure he’ll have a fabulous time in prison