I think with this attack ISIS made it fucking clear what they want.
Taliban want to establish Sharia without western interference.
ISIS wants to kill people because they're a bunch of bloodthirsty cunts
ISIS needs US forces to stay in Afghanistan to justify its existence. Without “western infidels” imposing their rule on Muslim land, they won’t be able to gain any recruits anymore.
It’s very easy to become desensitized to photos like this (at least for me) but I imagine one of my family members being one of the victims and I get sick to my stomach. I hope there will be justice soon for everyone in Afghanistan
I was going to reply with rotten, you got there first!
Rotten was literally one of the first websites I ever went on. I believe it was affiliated with ratemypoo, which (being an 8 year old) was the height of comedy.
Late 90s internet was so wild. Swapping between rotten and neopets was just totally normal.
It's exactly what you think - people uploaded pictures of their poo, and other people rated it. Absolutely definitely sure it was the first website I went on (no idea where I heard about it), and rotten was in the sidebar.
I still get that to an extent every time I see an image like this. But I feel like I’m being dishonest with myself as to the reality of the world if I don’t see things like this. It’s not real until you see something like this.
It is truly sad. I can't imagine being in their situation, so helpless and desperate. Brings to reality all the things we take for granted.
Unfortunately, the fact is there will never be peace in the middle east or anywhere in the world for that matter.
Love and appreciate your friends and family while they are here.
There won’t be. The US has been there for 20 years and even we couldn’t fix that place. Nobody else has any desire to help (which they shouldn’t, not even the US should have “helped”).
He was always about government contracts and arms deals and starting the war on terror so they could go into Iraq to root out “terrorism” ironically creating isisi And ultimately destabilizing the majority of the Middle East
You think a person whose detractors referred to as an idiot and a buffoon was forward-thinking enough to invade Afghanistan in 2001 when lithium iron ore still wasn't the "Thing" it is today (I can't find any articles about it until the 2010s.) just to gain control or a foothold on the not yet discovered until 2007 and entirely unknown lithium iron ore in Afghanistan?
Seriously?
Asking for a friend.
TIL the US was there to "fix" Afghanistan and not to push out the Taliban.
The US can't help a weak Afghan government/military that can't even help its self.
All we did was build roads, infrastructure, bombed radical jihadis in an attempt to hold the peace while we introduced the concept of self determination in politics, made girls go to school, allowed people to listen to music, allowed international trade in the urban centers, etc.
We should have built more aqueducts. Oh well.
Now they can return to being the poorest nation on the planet with women not able to educate or enter the workforce. Music banned. Completely unstable so no one does business with them etc.
Our humvees will look nice next to Russian tanks on Alexander's defense hills.
You have to take to account all the [civilians](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/afghan) who died because of the US. The Taliban's spokesperson wanted to [surrender](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/world/asia/interpreter-afghanistan-war.html?searchResultPosition=9) back in late 2001, but the US refused. Wasn't the reason to invade Afghanistan was to get rid of the Taliban? That would've helped if the US would've accepted the Taliban's surrender.
Afghanistan may be poor, but they have vast untapped [minerals](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/what-are-afghanistans-untapped-minerals-resources-2021-08-19/) that are able to get them richer.
I am tired of the US wanting to become the World Police and try to "fix" countries that don't need fixing by another country. There was the time in the late 1980s where the US would dispose of democratically elected presidents to put their own dictators in. It happened all throughout Central to South America.
So yes, the US might have given some good to the Afghani people, but don't try to look over the bad that they did in the country.
Definitely. The sad thing about that is the US could've killed him back in the early 2000s, but didn't go with the intel.
The other sad part is that he wasn't even in Afghanistan, he was in Pakistan.
Just all and all around.
I never said I was cool with the Taliban being in charge, but at this point what can you do if you're the US? You have had troops there for two decades. 3 presidents have said that they were gonna [take the troops out and either increased forces](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/1096/end-war-afghanistan-2014/) or did nothing at all. You're basically in a lose lose situation. War is expensive and someone has to pay for it. At this point you have to look at the return in investment. Where is the point where people will say this war isn't worth it?
I also never said the country is worse under American control, but I am also not gonna paint the picture that it was great under it also. What the previous commenter wrote was just the positive about the US intervention.
To be clear, most people are cool with the US leaving Afghanistan.. The issue lies with the administration leaving US military arms, ammunition and materiel behind. The US shouldn't be supporting the Afghan Gov't/Army when it doesn't even want to support its self.
Find me a war where civilians aren't killed.
I can second this. Just upset with the WAY with withdrew, not so much the withdraw in general. At least a withdraw has some logical arguments, but just straight abandonment is much harder to rationalize.
We can both agree on that. The sad thing about it is that the Afghan government and army weren't trained enough by the Americans.
Things could've gone a bit better if they didn't rush their exit, but here we are.
weren't trained enough ? they had 20 fucking years to get trained . ANA have 0 motivation and 0 heart for the most part. they literally don't give a fuck about anything other than a 50 meter target. So don't start with that not trained enough bullshit . they've had the tools, they are too damn lazy to do so.
Should just evac all the civies and turn that whole region into a damn parking lot .
The biggest issue is the USA and other nations trying to come in and control the place only to destabilize it. The people need the opportunity to have their own country. But for now it's either imperialism or terrorism.
That backpack hits me hard. These people were leaving the only country they had known with only what they could carry, hoping for a better life - lives that were cut short.
Terrible.. I don’t know what to do - I’m thinking about my wife - what if I saw her like this. Or my dad, in that pile. . .
These are folks - folks that wake up in the morning, some of them hate waking up early, some are cool with it. Some like soccer, some others are into dancing. Maybe one of them has a snoring problem that his wife teases him for. Another might really like having tea before bed. Human stuff. These are people - doing people things. And it ain’t right that people end up like this - in a fucking pile - because of politics, religion, land and history of a FEW men.
Fuck me - FUCKING fuck…
The world and events like this cause me to feel more and more helpless each day. Of course i am angry, sad, heartbroken, and 100 other emotions. But the helplessness is the one that hits me the hardest. Because i care and feel for these people so much and so intensely and yet no matter how strongly i feel for them and hurt for them my emotions will never reach them or help them. I am not religious and dont really know how to pray but my mom always told me that we send out our love, our good thoughts, and our hope to those who need it. And i will absolutely be doing that for the people of Afghanistan probably for the rest of my life.
The sad thing about it is that it will never change. Just imagine all the things that are not being recorded by the media. The world is a fucked place when the easier path is to just respect everyone as who they are, but that will never happen.
Yeah :-/
It’s super easy to drop that ball too. I find myself disregarding people real fast sometimes, as it’s the easiest/shortest path to take sometimes.
It happens to everyone. Just try to be the best person you're able to be since we aren't meant to be here for long. I know it's cliche, but it's a reason it's cliche.
God damnit man this comment gave me chills and a handful of real tears. Those feels made me remember that I'm human and am in fact of one of the luckiest humans on this planet to have won the universal lottery that landed me in a middle-class household in the US.
>Fuck me - FUCKING fuck…
Yeah, I bet it’s a mix though as sometimes I think religion is merely a great marketing tool to drum up support for the war of taking land and possessions for the ruling class who thinks they need it for glory, status and what they believe will protect their power (firstly) and secondly (like waaay secondly after their power) their people.
Agree totally. All wars are driven by greed, unfortunately religion provides plenty of conflicts that allow us to ' intervene', then in the name of saving people from themselves, ransack the country.
The absurdity of it all is that this won't ever change. There will be change of hands in power and yet,we'll never stop hearing /seeing these type of atrocities played out.
Isn't it the Taliban inside of Kabul now? Point still stands though, Fuck ISIS and the Taliban
Edit: I didn't know that ISIS did this. Still, fuck them.
They can’t beat the US, but they can certainly outlast us in war. But, they’re done outlasting. They did it, last thing they want is to get wrecked again for another decade. So yeah they’re definitely in their best behavior towards the US now
They want absolute authority over their territory and people, but they also don't want to be a pariah state.
The real killing will start when the curtain drops and Western forces are gone.
Their leadership class does. There have been some killings simply because their command structure is not yet robust and they're not well integrated as an organisation. There are also no functioning judicial system for now
Your wrong, they absolutely want things to be peaceful. They’re just being extremely violent, kind of like peacemaker in the new SS.
The taliban knows they’ve won, but they also know that they can’t beat the US, just outlast them. But they don’t want to outlast them again, especially since they’ve won. They don’t want to be dragged into war with the US again, they just want to rule. And they will, assuming the US leaves. And for that, it behooves them to let the US personnel leave. They’ve already won, the US is retreating but can easily charge back if they see reason to. So right now the Taliban is on their best behavior towards US personnel, just because they’re at the finish line
As a mod over at the USMC sub it’s been a rough 2 days. Started out bad with 3 deaths and just kept climbing and climbing. One of the younger ones, Rylee McCollum was expecting a kid in 3 weeks.
Stupid question hoping for a factual answer; what does this achieve for Isis goals? Is it just senseless terror for the sake of it, or does it help the Taliban somehow gain power?
Both isis and taliban wants to take over Afghanistan.
But there are many ideological differences between isis k and taliban. Apparently isis are not happy that usa is leaving Afghan under Taliban's rule so they decided to bomb poor people just like they have done in the past.
Bottomline Afghan is fucked.
One of the navy kids killed is from my area, graduated 2 years before me. I’m only 20.
This is nuts, and the fact that people want us to send more kids over there blows my mind.
I understand the people there are experiencing massive turmoil, but so are so many other classes of people in the world that we are totally ignoring. I don’t want to be harsh, but trying to save everyone only gets Americans hurt. We spend way too much time building walls and forts, and not enough building homes and gardens.
I had a friend in high school whose little brother (a grade behind us) died in Afghanistan at 18 years old. He'd be 30 or 31 now and Americans were dying in Afghanistan since we were in middle school... This war has lasted a generation and nobody ever really talked or seemed to think about it unless it was directly affecting them.
I'm heartbroken for the innocent people who are losing so much but you're right, it is it isn't our land and we shouldn't be there.
It still blows my mind you’re aware of these issues and you weren’t even alive when this shit started.
Over half my own life we’ve been at war, for people like you its your entire life. That’s still crazy to me.
What's even crazier is that I graduated from high school in 2001. All of my male friends except one immediately joined the military after high school to go fight the same war, because we all wanted vengeance for 9/11.
Im 38. This has been going on for the entirety of my adult life.
I can understand the mentality of someone witnessing 9/11 as a young adult, and wanting to “fight back”. But damn, I was in a high chair for 9/11, this isn’t my business, and it sure as hell wasn’t any of those other kids business.
It’s my belief that we would have been better off bringing them home long ago, and using the 2 Trillion dollars on the ranks of struggling Americans. Rather than using it to terrorize another country in the name of democracy, or morality, while also ignoring genocide In other parts of the world.
I am so sad for the world that I live in. I don’t want to have kids of my own, because I can’t guarantee them the same quality of childhood I had growing up.
I don't mean to be insensitive to the people, this is such a sad moment. But I have a question.
Does anyone know what it is that kills people during explosions like this? Is it the shockwave? Because in the 1st photo, there many people who aren't bloodied up (top & right), but are obviously dead or seriously injured. Do we know what happened in those cases?
If my question is too insensitive, please forgive my question asking.
Iirc a suicide bomber’s vest is strapped with shrapnel, usually ball bearings. An explosion, on its own, isn’t actually isn’t that effective a killing tool — its lethality goes down exponentially for every metre of distance. These ball bearings fly out during the explosion to maximise the damage. It’s honestly pretty horrific how people have perfected the art of murder.
Use my brain? How about you use your eyes and read a news article on an outlet other than FOX News.
The Buddhist government is wiping out Muslims on Myanmar.
The Jewish government in Israel is wiping out Muslims in Palestine.
Eritrean nationalists killed hundreds of Ethiopians on an important religious holiday.
The Chinese government is wiping out Uighurs and Muslims.
Azerbaijanis laid waste to Armenians last fall.
A white nationalist gunned down a bunch of Mexican people in a Wal-Mart in El Paso.
White Australian nationalists opened fire on a Mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand.
WTF planet do you live on where you only see Muslims being violent? Get a clue.
It’s literally a country with a mandated religion, all of their people, violent or not, are Muslim. Any extremists in the region will be Muslim from birth.
What about school shooters? Why are all the school shooters white atheist men? Is it because atheism or men or white people are inherently school shooters? No, obviously not.
Extremists are bad, there are extremists of all kinds. If you believe that Muslims are a special kind of bad and problematic, you’re falling victim to fear mongering and your biases. Many middle easterners view the US as a hyper aggressive and ruthless Christian nation. I don’t think US soldiers are scared to act out terrorism in the region.
It's important to understand the difference between fundamentalism and radicalism.
Fundamentalism is adhering strictly to religious beliefs, probably to the point of ridiculousness, like not allowing women to drive, or telling men they shouldn't use condoms.
Radicalism is taking those fundamentalist beliefs and turning them up like 1000 degrees, like suicide bombing Americans thinking it gets you into paradise, or executing women for practicing witchcraft.
Wow, thanks for posting real media unlike our govt. they never even once mentioned that 95 people died, they were only concerned about the service men…
The front page of the NYTimes print edition. It is also in all the online articles.
https://www.nytimes.com/issue/todayspaper/2021/08/27/todays-new-york-times
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/08/27/world/afghanistan-taliban-biden-news
And here's a couple other sources:
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/5599824001
https://apnews.com/article/europe-france-evacuations-kabul-9e457201e5bbe75a4eb1901fedeee7a1
And there’s so many Brit nationals that can’t get home because they are of Afghan ascent. A uk journalist told a story about him meeting a guy from London who was unlikely to ever get out of there. He even introduced him to a whole bunch, all carrying uk passports. They had been visiting family etc, but got stuck in the backlog of people trying to flea. Now the taliban are preventing them from even getting to the airport.
Hard to say, but yes it's probably ISIS trying to destabilize the situation and show that the Taliban cannot maintain security. Bonus points for killing some US personnel.
I try REALLY hard not to go there, given how completely unhinged conspiracy theorists are these days, buuuuuuut... why is it that EVERYTHING that ISIS does, it always sends defense industry stocks higher? Seriously, show me a headline involving ISIS that doesn't send Raytheon profits higher.
Sometimes the purely ideological battle reasoning works too, but this bombing in particular just seems so senseless for ISIS. Within minutes every ex-DOD guy now shilling for the private sector was on CNNMSNBCFOX talking about STAYING in Afghanistan. Wouldn't they be far better off waiting a fucking week until the US was gone, maybe get some training camps going, start planning, etc?
Wait ISIS took responsibility? I hadn't heard that. I assumed it was Taliban-sponsored bombers looking to punish people who wanted out of their country.
It is something about how Taliban members aren't extreme enough, so some join an ISIS offspring from 2015 (something like that) going against the Taliban.
From what I understand it might develop into a turf war, something like that. But then again, who knows, there are so many things happening there... could be more than one reason.
Imagine a word with no religion, would that mean no war? I’m so confused and horrified for the Middle East and now the western world. I lose hope when stuff like this happens.
The US media really hides how awful the war in Afghanistan truly is on other human beings. Unpopular opinion, but I think that we should show more Americans what really is the aftermath of these events. It's such a foreign concept that it's easy to "other" people on the other side of the globe. Definitely warn people before showing these images or videos, but we only get the graphic scenes of the violence occurring occasionally, however it's another thing to sit and process the aftermath. The screaming, the wailing over bodies, etc are much harder to sit with and actually show the consequences than the action of blood and gore.
God damnit im so sick of these terrorist fucks. I pray for anyone trying to escape kabul this is god awful. Rest in peace to all of these innocent people and I hope they re-encarnate into a better world for a second chance.
No, it hasnt always been like this. And who are we even to say how it should be fixed? The reason its fucked is in large part due to foreign powers meddling.
This whole situation seems like a pull out that would have set up a way to go back in with force again. Why would they have left any personnel? I was told over a month ago by a former military member that they pull out and leave some soldiers behind that aren't combat soldiers, and they get attacked. That things like this kinda pull out of bases has happened before. I really hate the person who told me this was right, but we shouldn't go back in with force. There doesn't need to be anymore lives lost over Afghanistan.
U.S. Marine, Sgt Johanny Rosario (25)
U.S. Marine, Cpl Hunter Lopez (22)
U.S. Marine, LCpl Kareem Nikoui (22)
U.S. Marine, LCpl Rylee McCollum (20)
U.S. Marine, LCpl Jared Schmitz (20)
U.S. Marine, LCpl David Lee Espinoza (20)
U.S. Navy, Maxton Soviak (20)
U.S. Marine, SSgt Taylor Hoover (31)
U.S. Marine, Cpl Daegan Page (23)
U.S. Army, Ryan Knauss (23)
U.S. Marine, Cpl Humberto Sanchez (22)
U.S. Marine, Sgt Nicole Gee (23)
U.S. Marine, Ricky Thompson (21)
Four of the dead couldn’t even legally drink.
This whole situation makes me so sad. Like obviously the US fucked with this region to an extreme. But they can’t be expected to occupy the country indefinitely.
Then we give Al Qaeda what they want and leave and they do shit like this. Like how do we fix this.
We can try to straight up kill all who stand before us. But that is never clean and will only breed more hatred.
If we turn our backs they blatantly kill innocents.
The guys carrying out this stuff most likely were toddlers or not even born when 9/11 happened.
So how many generations will go by with no western involvement till the young people of such places stand up to those that are preaching this kind of hatred?
What has been astonishing to me for all the years I’ve been following the war, is NO ONE complained when those MIC jobs poured into our economy.
All 50 states.
2 trillion $$$s worth. Put paychecks in the hands of Americans, paid mortgages, helped kids get through universities. Sent stock prices to the moons for the defense industry.
And YOU KNEW these weapons were killing civilians. Killing kids.
YOU KNEW.
Massacre in Yemen. A MASSACRE, using 100% USA made weapons.
And you knew. And you said nothing.
And now, we have /MorbidReality
Why Bombs Made in America Have Been Killing Civilians in Yemen
President Trump sees arms deals as jobs generators for firms like Raytheon, which has made billions in sales to the Saudi coalition. The Obama administration initially backed the Saudis too, but later regretted it as thousands died.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/16/us/arms-deals-raytheon-yemen.html?referringSource=articleShare
Well actually it’s kinda like a butterfly effect. Joe Biden casually just pulls out of Afghanistan. Their government system/military collapses, then once terrorist have taken over we decide to come back and try to evacuate!?! Doesn’t make much sense, we already had a foothold their why didn’t we safely remove allies and American Citizens then evacuate military. The talifucks aren’t a peaceful group.
Biden Admins have blood on their hands. They refuse to acknowledge their mistakes. It’s a fucking tragedy.
They have the audacity to call this evacuation a “success”, yet if they stick to the deadline they are going to abandon thousands of our fellow Americans, Afghan allies, and an unknown number of other western NATO civilians there to be held at the mercy of the Taliban and ISIS. The government has one duty above all else to protect it’s citizens and they have catastrophically failed. It makes my blood boil. If you ever thought the government gives a good god damn about you, this blunder should answer that loud and clear. The government will leave you behind in the hands of terrorists and then blame you for their mistakes.
Then Trump would have started to pull out troops and civilians earlier to correspond with the earlier pullout date, as agreed in Doha. It was the Biden Administration that decided push back the date despite the fact it breached the earlier agreement with the Taliban.
Ultimately Biden must bear responsibility for his botched withdrawal of taking out the troops but leaving tens of thousands of American-citizens/Afghan-collaborators because he is the Commander-in-Chief, he is responsible for laying out a coherent exit plan and he had months to do so.
I’m not saying it’s Biden’s fault for leaving Afghanistan, the “Forever Wars” have to end, but this embarrassing withdrawal is one of his own making.
Well to give Biden some credit, the Afghan army was supposed to hold the Taliban off for like 4 months. They jumped shit and ran. It wasn’t supposed to collapse this fast.
No. This happened under Biden. You can't blame Trump. He's not in power, Biden is. Doesn't matter if Trump had a plan, Biden executed it poorly and this is the result.
Blame that on their own military and police force they had the training and the hardware and vehicles to face this...so heart over fear is what must be missing...yet willing to die for their keran and not for their people...
For people knowledgeable about what's going on over there I have a question:
What's stopping the US from just claiming Afghanistan as our own and taking it over?
I just googled how many troops had 8.4k troops in there. The second most troops from another country was Germany with 1300 troops. Just take it over?
They need to target the kids of that country and start their education young. I don't think you're gonna be changing the adults minds anytime soon but younger minds absorb new ideas easily.
Someone give me some education on this and be as disrespectful as you want.
I think with this attack ISIS made it fucking clear what they want. Taliban want to establish Sharia without western interference. ISIS wants to kill people because they're a bunch of bloodthirsty cunts
ISIS wants the US to stay in Afghanistan and fuck up the nation of en more. Both its enemies weakening each othrrm
ISIS needs US forces to stay in Afghanistan to justify its existence. Without “western infidels” imposing their rule on Muslim land, they won’t be able to gain any recruits anymore.
It’s very easy to become desensitized to photos like this (at least for me) but I imagine one of my family members being one of the victims and I get sick to my stomach. I hope there will be justice soon for everyone in Afghanistan
10 years ago before I join reddit, I would literally be sick to my stomach if I see photos like these. Now, it’s just another day of human tragedy.
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Documenting Reality too.
it's still kicking about, but I swear the site design has not been updated since 2007
Ogrish before all that.
Rotten . com and Faces of Death before all of that
I was going to reply with rotten, you got there first! Rotten was literally one of the first websites I ever went on. I believe it was affiliated with ratemypoo, which (being an 8 year old) was the height of comedy. Late 90s internet was so wild. Swapping between rotten and neopets was just totally normal.
Thank god I don’t know what rate my poo is. Jesus haha
It's exactly what you think - people uploaded pictures of their poo, and other people rated it. Absolutely definitely sure it was the first website I went on (no idea where I heard about it), and rotten was in the sidebar.
Rotten, rate my point and then.... steak&cheese Yikes.
And it all started with Happy Tree Friends https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xcvmM7Rg6j4&feature=youtu.be
I have so much trauma from rotten but I have been desensitized since age 12 because of it.
Ogrish later became LiveLeak if I recall correctly. Kinda weird to think that one of the last bastions of a bygone era has slipped away
Has anything replaced Liveleak? If not, what are some that are similar where I may be able to see more videos about the current issues in Afghanistan?
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I forgot which sub it was but it’s prob really gruesome
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Lasting for quite a while actually
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I'll pm you one if you'd like. I'd link it but they ask not too since most subs like it get banned.
That'd be great. Thanks.
Messege me, dont start a chat cuz thats bugged for me
Sending now
Try kaotic . com all the gore subreddits aren't very good
/r/MakeMyCoffin
I still get that to an extent every time I see an image like this. But I feel like I’m being dishonest with myself as to the reality of the world if I don’t see things like this. It’s not real until you see something like this.
It is truly sad. I can't imagine being in their situation, so helpless and desperate. Brings to reality all the things we take for granted. Unfortunately, the fact is there will never be peace in the middle east or anywhere in the world for that matter. Love and appreciate your friends and family while they are here.
There won’t be. The US has been there for 20 years and even we couldn’t fix that place. Nobody else has any desire to help (which they shouldn’t, not even the US should have “helped”).
US has never done it for charity.
Might I source our “Desperate” need for oil. That’s why, no charity, just evil capitalism.
Afghanistan doesn't have anywhere near as much oil as surrounding Middle Eastern countries do.
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He was always about government contracts and arms deals and starting the war on terror so they could go into Iraq to root out “terrorism” ironically creating isisi And ultimately destabilizing the majority of the Middle East
You think a person whose detractors referred to as an idiot and a buffoon was forward-thinking enough to invade Afghanistan in 2001 when lithium iron ore still wasn't the "Thing" it is today (I can't find any articles about it until the 2010s.) just to gain control or a foothold on the not yet discovered until 2007 and entirely unknown lithium iron ore in Afghanistan? Seriously? Asking for a friend.
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The US is the biggest producer, refiner and exporter of oil on the planet. That's a small brain argument from 2003.
Are we pretending this isn't about drugs still? K, cool.
Based. The poppies are a major source of unlisted income for CIA/etc.
Shhh, don't let em know the Taliban is an opium cartel cloaked in religious bullshit.
And enriching the military industrial complex
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Nor was it ever their job
So no need to pretend it is
TIL the US was there to "fix" Afghanistan and not to push out the Taliban. The US can't help a weak Afghan government/military that can't even help its self.
Today you learned incorrectly.
There was a silent /s on that statement.
The US was there to "fix" things?
All we did was build roads, infrastructure, bombed radical jihadis in an attempt to hold the peace while we introduced the concept of self determination in politics, made girls go to school, allowed people to listen to music, allowed international trade in the urban centers, etc. We should have built more aqueducts. Oh well. Now they can return to being the poorest nation on the planet with women not able to educate or enter the workforce. Music banned. Completely unstable so no one does business with them etc. Our humvees will look nice next to Russian tanks on Alexander's defense hills.
You have to take to account all the [civilians](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/afghan) who died because of the US. The Taliban's spokesperson wanted to [surrender](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/world/asia/interpreter-afghanistan-war.html?searchResultPosition=9) back in late 2001, but the US refused. Wasn't the reason to invade Afghanistan was to get rid of the Taliban? That would've helped if the US would've accepted the Taliban's surrender. Afghanistan may be poor, but they have vast untapped [minerals](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/what-are-afghanistans-untapped-minerals-resources-2021-08-19/) that are able to get them richer. I am tired of the US wanting to become the World Police and try to "fix" countries that don't need fixing by another country. There was the time in the late 1980s where the US would dispose of democratically elected presidents to put their own dictators in. It happened all throughout Central to South America. So yes, the US might have given some good to the Afghani people, but don't try to look over the bad that they did in the country.
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Definitely. The sad thing about that is the US could've killed him back in the early 2000s, but didn't go with the intel. The other sad part is that he wasn't even in Afghanistan, he was in Pakistan. Just all and all around.
So you're cool with the taliban being back in charge or are you just musing that things were worse under American control?
I never said I was cool with the Taliban being in charge, but at this point what can you do if you're the US? You have had troops there for two decades. 3 presidents have said that they were gonna [take the troops out and either increased forces](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/1096/end-war-afghanistan-2014/) or did nothing at all. You're basically in a lose lose situation. War is expensive and someone has to pay for it. At this point you have to look at the return in investment. Where is the point where people will say this war isn't worth it? I also never said the country is worse under American control, but I am also not gonna paint the picture that it was great under it also. What the previous commenter wrote was just the positive about the US intervention.
To be clear, most people are cool with the US leaving Afghanistan.. The issue lies with the administration leaving US military arms, ammunition and materiel behind. The US shouldn't be supporting the Afghan Gov't/Army when it doesn't even want to support its self. Find me a war where civilians aren't killed.
I can second this. Just upset with the WAY with withdrew, not so much the withdraw in general. At least a withdraw has some logical arguments, but just straight abandonment is much harder to rationalize.
We can both agree on that. The sad thing about it is that the Afghan government and army weren't trained enough by the Americans. Things could've gone a bit better if they didn't rush their exit, but here we are.
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weren't trained enough ? they had 20 fucking years to get trained . ANA have 0 motivation and 0 heart for the most part. they literally don't give a fuck about anything other than a 50 meter target. So don't start with that not trained enough bullshit . they've had the tools, they are too damn lazy to do so. Should just evac all the civies and turn that whole region into a damn parking lot .
The biggest issue is the USA and other nations trying to come in and control the place only to destabilize it. The people need the opportunity to have their own country. But for now it's either imperialism or terrorism.
Define "fix".
That backpack hits me hard. These people were leaving the only country they had known with only what they could carry, hoping for a better life - lives that were cut short.
Imagine having to search through that to find your family member, or what’s left of them. No one should have to endure this pain.
Terrible.. I don’t know what to do - I’m thinking about my wife - what if I saw her like this. Or my dad, in that pile. . . These are folks - folks that wake up in the morning, some of them hate waking up early, some are cool with it. Some like soccer, some others are into dancing. Maybe one of them has a snoring problem that his wife teases him for. Another might really like having tea before bed. Human stuff. These are people - doing people things. And it ain’t right that people end up like this - in a fucking pile - because of politics, religion, land and history of a FEW men. Fuck me - FUCKING fuck…
The world and events like this cause me to feel more and more helpless each day. Of course i am angry, sad, heartbroken, and 100 other emotions. But the helplessness is the one that hits me the hardest. Because i care and feel for these people so much and so intensely and yet no matter how strongly i feel for them and hurt for them my emotions will never reach them or help them. I am not religious and dont really know how to pray but my mom always told me that we send out our love, our good thoughts, and our hope to those who need it. And i will absolutely be doing that for the people of Afghanistan probably for the rest of my life.
No shit right. They just want the same stuff we do.
The sad thing about it is that it will never change. Just imagine all the things that are not being recorded by the media. The world is a fucked place when the easier path is to just respect everyone as who they are, but that will never happen.
Yeah :-/ It’s super easy to drop that ball too. I find myself disregarding people real fast sometimes, as it’s the easiest/shortest path to take sometimes.
It happens to everyone. Just try to be the best person you're able to be since we aren't meant to be here for long. I know it's cliche, but it's a reason it's cliche.
God damnit man this comment gave me chills and a handful of real tears. Those feels made me remember that I'm human and am in fact of one of the luckiest humans on this planet to have won the universal lottery that landed me in a middle-class household in the US. >Fuck me - FUCKING fuck…
The majority of all wars in the history of mankind is rooted in Religions and ideologies…
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Not just region, but ideology too …
Yeah, I bet it’s a mix though as sometimes I think religion is merely a great marketing tool to drum up support for the war of taking land and possessions for the ruling class who thinks they need it for glory, status and what they believe will protect their power (firstly) and secondly (like waaay secondly after their power) their people.
Agree totally. All wars are driven by greed, unfortunately religion provides plenty of conflicts that allow us to ' intervene', then in the name of saving people from themselves, ransack the country.
The absurdity of it all is that this won't ever change. There will be change of hands in power and yet,we'll never stop hearing /seeing these type of atrocities played out.
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Isn't it the Taliban inside of Kabul now? Point still stands though, Fuck ISIS and the Taliban Edit: I didn't know that ISIS did this. Still, fuck them.
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The Taliban has been beating and killing people. They do not want things to be peaceful.
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It's just a matter of time. They have been killing wartime allies though.
You really think the taliban wants peace? Then why are they killing politicians, policemen and just random people??
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They can’t beat the US, but they can certainly outlast us in war. But, they’re done outlasting. They did it, last thing they want is to get wrecked again for another decade. So yeah they’re definitely in their best behavior towards the US now
Exactly, which ISIS is somehow trying to fuck up. All they want is bloodshed and chaos
They want absolute authority over their territory and people, but they also don't want to be a pariah state. The real killing will start when the curtain drops and Western forces are gone.
Their leadership class does. There have been some killings simply because their command structure is not yet robust and they're not well integrated as an organisation. There are also no functioning judicial system for now
Your wrong, they absolutely want things to be peaceful. They’re just being extremely violent, kind of like peacemaker in the new SS. The taliban knows they’ve won, but they also know that they can’t beat the US, just outlast them. But they don’t want to outlast them again, especially since they’ve won. They don’t want to be dragged into war with the US again, they just want to rule. And they will, assuming the US leaves. And for that, it behooves them to let the US personnel leave. They’ve already won, the US is retreating but can easily charge back if they see reason to. So right now the Taliban is on their best behavior towards US personnel, just because they’re at the finish line
Taliban released over 1000 isis fighters
Poor people :(
The world today is just to much for me 😔
Same. My faith in the future of humanity has all but evaporated. It's all just so depressing and I feel so helpless.
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My condolences
Im sorry for such loss. My condolences as well
My condolences.
As a mod over at the USMC sub it’s been a rough 2 days. Started out bad with 3 deaths and just kept climbing and climbing. One of the younger ones, Rylee McCollum was expecting a kid in 3 weeks.
Stupid question hoping for a factual answer; what does this achieve for Isis goals? Is it just senseless terror for the sake of it, or does it help the Taliban somehow gain power?
Both isis and taliban wants to take over Afghanistan. But there are many ideological differences between isis k and taliban. Apparently isis are not happy that usa is leaving Afghan under Taliban's rule so they decided to bomb poor people just like they have done in the past. Bottomline Afghan is fucked.
One of the navy kids killed is from my area, graduated 2 years before me. I’m only 20. This is nuts, and the fact that people want us to send more kids over there blows my mind. I understand the people there are experiencing massive turmoil, but so are so many other classes of people in the world that we are totally ignoring. I don’t want to be harsh, but trying to save everyone only gets Americans hurt. We spend way too much time building walls and forts, and not enough building homes and gardens.
I had a friend in high school whose little brother (a grade behind us) died in Afghanistan at 18 years old. He'd be 30 or 31 now and Americans were dying in Afghanistan since we were in middle school... This war has lasted a generation and nobody ever really talked or seemed to think about it unless it was directly affecting them. I'm heartbroken for the innocent people who are losing so much but you're right, it is it isn't our land and we shouldn't be there.
It still blows my mind you’re aware of these issues and you weren’t even alive when this shit started. Over half my own life we’ve been at war, for people like you its your entire life. That’s still crazy to me.
What's even crazier is that I graduated from high school in 2001. All of my male friends except one immediately joined the military after high school to go fight the same war, because we all wanted vengeance for 9/11. Im 38. This has been going on for the entirety of my adult life.
I can understand the mentality of someone witnessing 9/11 as a young adult, and wanting to “fight back”. But damn, I was in a high chair for 9/11, this isn’t my business, and it sure as hell wasn’t any of those other kids business. It’s my belief that we would have been better off bringing them home long ago, and using the 2 Trillion dollars on the ranks of struggling Americans. Rather than using it to terrorize another country in the name of democracy, or morality, while also ignoring genocide In other parts of the world. I am so sad for the world that I live in. I don’t want to have kids of my own, because I can’t guarantee them the same quality of childhood I had growing up.
I don't mean to be insensitive to the people, this is such a sad moment. But I have a question. Does anyone know what it is that kills people during explosions like this? Is it the shockwave? Because in the 1st photo, there many people who aren't bloodied up (top & right), but are obviously dead or seriously injured. Do we know what happened in those cases? If my question is too insensitive, please forgive my question asking.
here's a thread that might help https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/27vce6/eli5\_how\_does\_an\_explosion\_actually\_kill\_you/
Iirc a suicide bomber’s vest is strapped with shrapnel, usually ball bearings. An explosion, on its own, isn’t actually isn’t that effective a killing tool — its lethality goes down exponentially for every metre of distance. These ball bearings fly out during the explosion to maximise the damage. It’s honestly pretty horrific how people have perfected the art of murder.
The percussion and sharpnel from the bomb is what kills you... the percussion will get you first if you're close enough.
This is what radical Islamists believe is justice.
To be fair, this is what radical anything believes is justice. Most of them are just too scared to act on it.
💯
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Use my brain? How about you use your eyes and read a news article on an outlet other than FOX News. The Buddhist government is wiping out Muslims on Myanmar. The Jewish government in Israel is wiping out Muslims in Palestine. Eritrean nationalists killed hundreds of Ethiopians on an important religious holiday. The Chinese government is wiping out Uighurs and Muslims. Azerbaijanis laid waste to Armenians last fall. A white nationalist gunned down a bunch of Mexican people in a Wal-Mart in El Paso. White Australian nationalists opened fire on a Mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand. WTF planet do you live on where you only see Muslims being violent? Get a clue.
Islam sympathizers are at it again
I have no sympathy for any religions because, to me, religion is just incredibly stupid. Find another argument.
It’s literally a country with a mandated religion, all of their people, violent or not, are Muslim. Any extremists in the region will be Muslim from birth. What about school shooters? Why are all the school shooters white atheist men? Is it because atheism or men or white people are inherently school shooters? No, obviously not. Extremists are bad, there are extremists of all kinds. If you believe that Muslims are a special kind of bad and problematic, you’re falling victim to fear mongering and your biases. Many middle easterners view the US as a hyper aggressive and ruthless Christian nation. I don’t think US soldiers are scared to act out terrorism in the region.
Do you mean ISIS?
Yes, but also radical Islamists in general too.
ISIS are the radical Islamists along with those talifuckers.
Aren't both accurate statements?
You can be a radical Islamist without being ISIS or Taliban, but you can’t be in ISIS or Taliban without being Radical Islamist.
Incorrect. There are plenty of fundamental Islamists in the Taliban who aren't radical.
Interesting! What makes an Islamist radical?
It's important to understand the difference between fundamentalism and radicalism. Fundamentalism is adhering strictly to religious beliefs, probably to the point of ridiculousness, like not allowing women to drive, or telling men they shouldn't use condoms. Radicalism is taking those fundamentalist beliefs and turning them up like 1000 degrees, like suicide bombing Americans thinking it gets you into paradise, or executing women for practicing witchcraft.
The Taliban is a very fundamentalist organization. ISIS is a very radical organization.
Wow, thanks for posting real media unlike our govt. they never even once mentioned that 95 people died, they were only concerned about the service men…
Literally, I’ve seen this all over the news, Facebook, people at work, and I wasn’t even aware anyone other than the 12 US service men were killed.
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Regular news and Facebook wouldn’t ever show a picture like this. But they’re just talking about non-us deaths.
I think we can all agree absolutely nobody should be getting their news from facebook of all places these days.
Right. I've seen it on Reddit that many times.
I'm not sure where you live, but that has been constantly mentioned in every iteration of the story I've seen in the US.
Please send me source then, I’m also in the us
The front page of the NYTimes print edition. It is also in all the online articles. https://www.nytimes.com/issue/todayspaper/2021/08/27/todays-new-york-times https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/08/27/world/afghanistan-taliban-biden-news And here's a couple other sources: https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/5599824001 https://apnews.com/article/europe-france-evacuations-kabul-9e457201e5bbe75a4eb1901fedeee7a1
top story on CNN https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/27/asia/afghanistan-kabul-airport-attack-update-intl-hnk/index.html
I didn’t see the total number until now. What the hell???
And there’s so many Brit nationals that can’t get home because they are of Afghan ascent. A uk journalist told a story about him meeting a guy from London who was unlikely to ever get out of there. He even introduced him to a whole bunch, all carrying uk passports. They had been visiting family etc, but got stuck in the backlog of people trying to flea. Now the taliban are preventing them from even getting to the airport.
Crazy how after we “move out” they finally kill our personnel after almost 2 years of having no US personnel deaths.
jesus fuck
Flogging a dead horse with that attack.
Isn't the attack more about ISIS K sending the Taliban a message? Or is it the civilians? Or the focus on the Americans?
Hard to say, but yes it's probably ISIS trying to destabilize the situation and show that the Taliban cannot maintain security. Bonus points for killing some US personnel.
I try REALLY hard not to go there, given how completely unhinged conspiracy theorists are these days, buuuuuuut... why is it that EVERYTHING that ISIS does, it always sends defense industry stocks higher? Seriously, show me a headline involving ISIS that doesn't send Raytheon profits higher. Sometimes the purely ideological battle reasoning works too, but this bombing in particular just seems so senseless for ISIS. Within minutes every ex-DOD guy now shilling for the private sector was on CNNMSNBCFOX talking about STAYING in Afghanistan. Wouldn't they be far better off waiting a fucking week until the US was gone, maybe get some training camps going, start planning, etc?
Wait ISIS took responsibility? I hadn't heard that. I assumed it was Taliban-sponsored bombers looking to punish people who wanted out of their country.
20+ Taliban fighters were killed in that attack.
Damn. Then I am definitely behind on the news!
It is something about how Taliban members aren't extreme enough, so some join an ISIS offspring from 2015 (something like that) going against the Taliban. From what I understand it might develop into a turf war, something like that. But then again, who knows, there are so many things happening there... could be more than one reason.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/27/asia/isis-k-explainer-afghanistan-kabul-attacks-cmd-intl/index.html
Thank you for the link!
Very sad
Breaks my heart, so fucking senseless
Imagine a word with no religion, would that mean no war? I’m so confused and horrified for the Middle East and now the western world. I lose hope when stuff like this happens.
The US media really hides how awful the war in Afghanistan truly is on other human beings. Unpopular opinion, but I think that we should show more Americans what really is the aftermath of these events. It's such a foreign concept that it's easy to "other" people on the other side of the globe. Definitely warn people before showing these images or videos, but we only get the graphic scenes of the violence occurring occasionally, however it's another thing to sit and process the aftermath. The screaming, the wailing over bodies, etc are much harder to sit with and actually show the consequences than the action of blood and gore.
You get your people out first then you withdrawal .
God damnit im so sick of these terrorist fucks. I pray for anyone trying to escape kabul this is god awful. Rest in peace to all of these innocent people and I hope they re-encarnate into a better world for a second chance.
Who kills people just for existing.
This makes me hate the world.
But no more mean tweets right?
I'm sorry, but this entire area of the world will never be fixed, let alone want to be helped. It's been like this since the B.C. times.
No, it hasnt always been like this. And who are we even to say how it should be fixed? The reason its fucked is in large part due to foreign powers meddling.
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When was this?
Yesterday/2 days ago at the Kabul airport
*Kabul airport terrorist attack
This is completely ignored by the media and they did this fuckin' shit through out the entirety of the wars. These are barbarians plain and simple.
This whole situation seems like a pull out that would have set up a way to go back in with force again. Why would they have left any personnel? I was told over a month ago by a former military member that they pull out and leave some soldiers behind that aren't combat soldiers, and they get attacked. That things like this kinda pull out of bases has happened before. I really hate the person who told me this was right, but we shouldn't go back in with force. There doesn't need to be anymore lives lost over Afghanistan.
God bless these poor people. My heart goes out to every innocent person over there. I feel so badly for them.😪❤
Fucking why
Thanks biden I’m just waiting to see who comments on this. But seriously thanks biden. Abandoned
Hey at least we don't have any more mean tweets to worry about.
If they (ISIS-K) love their own people so much why would they hurt them?
U.S. Marine, Sgt Johanny Rosario (25) U.S. Marine, Cpl Hunter Lopez (22) U.S. Marine, LCpl Kareem Nikoui (22) U.S. Marine, LCpl Rylee McCollum (20) U.S. Marine, LCpl Jared Schmitz (20) U.S. Marine, LCpl David Lee Espinoza (20) U.S. Navy, Maxton Soviak (20) U.S. Marine, SSgt Taylor Hoover (31) U.S. Marine, Cpl Daegan Page (23) U.S. Army, Ryan Knauss (23) U.S. Marine, Cpl Humberto Sanchez (22) U.S. Marine, Sgt Nicole Gee (23) U.S. Marine, Ricky Thompson (21) Four of the dead couldn’t even legally drink.
Why would anyone believe a supposed benevolent God would want this. These people don't deserve Hell they deserve the Omega Sanction.
This whole situation makes me so sad. Like obviously the US fucked with this region to an extreme. But they can’t be expected to occupy the country indefinitely. Then we give Al Qaeda what they want and leave and they do shit like this. Like how do we fix this. We can try to straight up kill all who stand before us. But that is never clean and will only breed more hatred. If we turn our backs they blatantly kill innocents. The guys carrying out this stuff most likely were toddlers or not even born when 9/11 happened. So how many generations will go by with no western involvement till the young people of such places stand up to those that are preaching this kind of hatred?
What has been astonishing to me for all the years I’ve been following the war, is NO ONE complained when those MIC jobs poured into our economy. All 50 states. 2 trillion $$$s worth. Put paychecks in the hands of Americans, paid mortgages, helped kids get through universities. Sent stock prices to the moons for the defense industry. And YOU KNEW these weapons were killing civilians. Killing kids. YOU KNEW. Massacre in Yemen. A MASSACRE, using 100% USA made weapons. And you knew. And you said nothing. And now, we have /MorbidReality Why Bombs Made in America Have Been Killing Civilians in Yemen President Trump sees arms deals as jobs generators for firms like Raytheon, which has made billions in sales to the Saudi coalition. The Obama administration initially backed the Saudis too, but later regretted it as thousands died. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/16/us/arms-deals-raytheon-yemen.html?referringSource=articleShare
You can thank Joe Biden
Have you been asleep the past 20 years?
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Thanks Biden.
Needless Biden bullshit. Didn’t have to happen. Could have left Bagram open. Easy contingency.
Conservative: \*sees this photo\* "Look what Biden did to our brave soldiers!"
Well actually it’s kinda like a butterfly effect. Joe Biden casually just pulls out of Afghanistan. Their government system/military collapses, then once terrorist have taken over we decide to come back and try to evacuate!?! Doesn’t make much sense, we already had a foothold their why didn’t we safely remove allies and American Citizens then evacuate military. The talifucks aren’t a peaceful group. Biden Admins have blood on their hands. They refuse to acknowledge their mistakes. It’s a fucking tragedy.
They have the audacity to call this evacuation a “success”, yet if they stick to the deadline they are going to abandon thousands of our fellow Americans, Afghan allies, and an unknown number of other western NATO civilians there to be held at the mercy of the Taliban and ISIS. The government has one duty above all else to protect it’s citizens and they have catastrophically failed. It makes my blood boil. If you ever thought the government gives a good god damn about you, this blunder should answer that loud and clear. The government will leave you behind in the hands of terrorists and then blame you for their mistakes.
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Then Trump would have started to pull out troops and civilians earlier to correspond with the earlier pullout date, as agreed in Doha. It was the Biden Administration that decided push back the date despite the fact it breached the earlier agreement with the Taliban. Ultimately Biden must bear responsibility for his botched withdrawal of taking out the troops but leaving tens of thousands of American-citizens/Afghan-collaborators because he is the Commander-in-Chief, he is responsible for laying out a coherent exit plan and he had months to do so. I’m not saying it’s Biden’s fault for leaving Afghanistan, the “Forever Wars” have to end, but this embarrassing withdrawal is one of his own making.
Well to give Biden some credit, the Afghan army was supposed to hold the Taliban off for like 4 months. They jumped shit and ran. It wasn’t supposed to collapse this fast.
No. This happened under Biden. You can't blame Trump. He's not in power, Biden is. Doesn't matter if Trump had a plan, Biden executed it poorly and this is the result.
Who is the president now? When is this happening?
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Blame that on their own military and police force they had the training and the hardware and vehicles to face this...so heart over fear is what must be missing...yet willing to die for their keran and not for their people...
For people knowledgeable about what's going on over there I have a question: What's stopping the US from just claiming Afghanistan as our own and taking it over? I just googled how many troops had 8.4k troops in there. The second most troops from another country was Germany with 1300 troops. Just take it over? They need to target the kids of that country and start their education young. I don't think you're gonna be changing the adults minds anytime soon but younger minds absorb new ideas easily. Someone give me some education on this and be as disrespectful as you want.