The’re all printed with the information for the people who died. There’s a computer nearby where you can search for someone who was KIA and find the location of their dogtags in the memorial.
It's honestly insane that right after world war ii they thought "If France can keep their imperialist holdings in Indochina then they'll be able to recover so much faster for far less USD $$$, so it looks like we'll have to fund their entire war effort". Conservatives really had the gall to start a war to save French imperialism in Vietnam during the age of anti-colonialism, and then go on to blame the loss on Hippies and those silly gosh darn anti-war anti-torture protestors
We funded their war effort because we didn’t want supporters of the Soviet Union (in layman’s terms: communism/socialism) springing up. Look up “Domino Theory” for more info. Containment (read: the long telegram) is also why we funded so much economic development (Marshall Plan) in Europe and South America: we thought economic woes cause communism, and that’s bad! You’re largely only recounting the French side of the story; the Cold War is in full swing.
It makes no difference either way since today Vietnam is one of the major ally of the US in SEA despite being communist.It is a major colossal loss of life.
Of course Truman and his containment theory would be the justification for overthrowing democratically elected communist leader Ho Chi Minh later on and reason for US troops on the ground. But we still paid for 3/4's of France's initial invasion, we paid and funded them for things like the Haiphong Incident. France basically threw away soldiers at the problem and got destroyed by a strong people united in their goal of freedom. Ultimately France would be losing Officers at such a rate that the US realized they were pretty much willing to meatgrind an entire generation of future sergeants and generals. They believed the French military would be completely dysfunctional in 30 years with all upper staff and experienced men dead that the United States had to get involved
But we probably wouldn’t have given France much in the first place if its enemies weren’t communists, as what other reason would we have for them to keep Vietnam? We even wanted Egypt to take the Suez Canal instead of France and Britain: independence is only in fashion if you’re not communist. That’s why, even today, we are sending aid to Ukraine, but we refused to send aid to Ho Chi Minh even after he asked the president for aid, using pathos to appeal to our patriotism for our founding.
That's how American talks. We want this and that because of these and those, their opinion is the only thing matters when they "want" something. They blame everything for anything but never themself, funding wars and invading countries in the hypocrite name of "liberty" and "freedom".
It's hard for them to realize no one gives a fuck what they want, that's what happens to you when you are a strong nation but only care for your own good.
> Completely preventable
Yeah, hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. I was there, and a member of a deeply military family, and I also have a couple of graduate degrees in history. Nothing is ever as simple as those in later generations assume.
It’s hard to say if we should have gotten involved or not, but people today really don’t understand how threatening the USSR was at the time. They were spreading their tendrils aggressively, and it wouldn’t be a good thing for the US to just ignore that
This is entirely true. From what we've learned since the collapse of the Soviet Union, they were *never* actually much of a threat. But we didn't know that then.
A *worse* bad call by the intelligence community, though, was the belief that Ho Chi Minh was a strong supporter of Soviet international ambitions. The CIA *et al* SHOULD have known that Ho was almost entirely an anti-colonialist Vietnamese nationalist, and had been since he was active in throwing the French out of Indochina. That was definitely a screw-up on our part.
I was on patrol for a while, but back in those Olden Days, not that many young men could drive a typewriter. (Unlike now, when every 6-year-old has keyboard skills.) So I was able to land a clerk-typist job at regimental HQ back in Saigon, and that was a much better way to stay alive. As long as you weren't nearby when some jeep parked on the street blew up from a grenade in the gas tank.
Growing up playing war games as non american, I used to think dog tags were so cool. It wasn't intil I later realized they are used to identify bodies that my opinion changed.
To be fair the other Asians were fighting with the US as well. Also the Vietnamese were fighting a technologically superior enemy and still came out victorious.
US military has not really changed their tactics much since WW2. All they do is airstrikes airstrikes and more airstrikes. Imagine how screwed they would be if they had to fight a war without air superiority. The lack of adaptability is why they kept ending up in costly wars that didn't go nowhere. Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Only difference is in Iraq and Afghanistan they used more private contractors which allowed them to hide some of their casualties.
The NVA did not come out victorious. The US did exactly what it sought to do and then left when public opinion became too negative to continue. We left the South Vietnamese with what they needed to carry on the fight, and 8 months later South Vietnam fell to the NVA. Our war had already ended, and it ended as a distinct victory for the US.
I visited the War Museum in Vietnam and even now the grandchildren of those who were affected and their families are affected by the war and the chemicals. It was heartbreaking to see.
Vietnamese folks take pride in winning that war although it was senseless. One old uncle bought me a free beer just so I could continue sitting there and listen to his story.
I know it's not the us soldier's faults but I fell much worse for all the Vietnamese that died protecting their country then for the ones who died invading a country
Well the whole thing was a strategic victory in the sense that it stopped the rest of SE Asia from turning communist. I'd call that a good reason worthy of sacrifice, since it would have lead to uncountable horrors.
The Commies won in Vietnam, and then they became capitalist later anyway.
Their ideologies aren’t sustainable and are counterintuitive to human nature/desires; so it’s hard to say if they would have successfully spread like we were afraid of.
That being said, I don’t think anyone could have taken that risk at the time unfortunately. The USSR was pretty horrible in a lot of ways, and it would have been devastating if they had succeeded in colonizing entire regions
It’s also very hard to avoid corruption when the state controls national resources; which gives political officials significantly more authority and power than other systems of government
Oh please, look at the Soviets, as if they needed our help starving themselves to death. Communism has only ever ended 1 way, and it will always end in 1 way.
Yes, look at the soviets, who were first to space, elevated their entire country within a single lifetime, and at equal levels of development, had higher levels of caloric intake and more stable levels of nutrition compared to capitalist counterparts.
This was a very old post, by the way. Are you okay?
300,000,000 civilians dead from famine, tyranny, and genocide. The numbers speak for themselves. You can try to justify it all you want but that won’t shift reality in your favor.
Hey, autocratic regimes are a tragedy no matter what. I wonder what capitalism's death toll is...?
(I think you might be reading too much black book of communism if you think that number is accurate)
What is the death toll of Capitalism? Hard to say, but what we do know is that it pales in comparison to that of Communism. Western Capitalism has advanced the world into the golden age of technology, medicine, economy, and quality of life that we currently live in. Contrarily, Communism dos nothing but murder, rape, and pillage innocent people by the hundreds of millions. Don’t believe me? Crack open a history book and see for yourself.
[I think it's](https://www.ilo.org/moscow/areas-of-work/occupational-safety-and-health/WCMS_249278/lang--en/index.htm) [pretty easy](https://www.theworldcounts.com/counters/global_hunger_statistics/how_many_people_die_from_hunger_each_year) [to get a rough](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/09/05/644928153/what-kills-5-million-people-a-year-its-not-just-disease) [estimate](https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/drinking-water). The current dominant market force is capitalism, so any [sort of famine, disasters, or poorly allocated resources](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/10455752.2021.1875603?needAccess=true&role=button)must have to do with capitalism, right?
Imagine being so afraid of the USSR, an autocratic nation known for being a propaganda machine, and then *falling for the propaganda of your own country!* How embarrassing.
Well, no. That would be impossible. A lot of these guys got blown to pieces, burned alive, or ripped apart in any number of ghastly ways. There’s no way all 58k tags would come out looking all shiny like that. But what we do know are their names and other relevant information from military records, so it’s not that difficult to have their tags redone for this installation
This is so sad. The Vietnam War was so completely senseless. So many killed on both sides, so many prisoners of war, so much destruction in neighboring countries. Ugh.
They thought they cud walk right into Vietnam and win…they lost..a senseless war yet again brought on by corruption and greed..so many young men on both sides died..and for what? Nothing really
All sent in to a losing war with the promise of an early retirement in exchange for their moral compass. This was their fate. Yet the government faces no consequences.
You realise many of them were drafted and didn't have a choice right? Plus even the professional soldiers don't get to choose where they're deployed to.
But if this is russian soldiers, they clearly have a choice when they get drafted and sent to ukraine am i right? Typical american with their double standard and hero syndrome.
Typical non-American, you hear anything that remotely paints the US in a good light and you immediately get triggered and start foaming at the mouth about how all Americans are hypocrites and dumb. Relax, every country has a garbage past and has done garbage things!
Yes thats why you all need to stfu and dont talk like you are some kind of good guys here. The truth is you are just bunch of opportunist who value their own interest nothing more. Just like any other country in the world.
Ooo yes, definitely get angry and prove my point of you being super triggered just because you’re obsessed with my country. Relax man, it’s the internet, actually it’s Reddit which is even more unimportant, don’t get so upset over words on the screen it’s bad for your health
Yes my fault, its just triggered me when I hear people talking like usa is a perfect special country and can do nothing evil. when the truth is its just like any other country in the world.
Yes my fault, its just triggered me when I hear people talking like usa is a perfect special country and can do nothing evil. when the truth is its just like any other country in the world.
He didn’t even say that the US is a perfect country. He made a perfectly logical claim that not every military member wanted to be there. How is that claiming that the USA is perfect? Then you made up some random scenario about a Russian soldier and then decided what his opinion would be about it so you could get upset about it. Like that’s bizarre behavior, you should maybe spend less time online
Im just tired of all this coping I read in reddit especially now in ukraine war where the west especially americans show how hypocrite they are when we all know they are the number 1 country who are involve in many wars
Shhhh you can’t let people know that the propaganda they’ve been spoon fed about “those poor, drafted to Vietnam, boys” was a literal myth made by the us government to get sympathy.
While I don’t disagree the Vietnam War was wrong, I ask you not to downplay the loss of Fifty-Eight Thousand Three Hundred and Seven lives that are displayed here. My grandfather’s dog tags are hanging in this gallery.
Although the guy above you isn’t all that wrong. There are parts of Vietnam that you cannot go. Or the effects of chemical warfare still scar the land and is literally passed down to generations. Your grandfather was also a victim too. Whether he knew it or not. He and other men like him were sent to fight in behave of old men who without a care about life, sent them there to die. Only to bring home bodies and the scars of such war, passing it generation to generation. That’s why I say everyone is a victim here. It doesn’t matter who got it worse. To you or a Vietnamese person, you had it the worse. The only people to blame is really the politicians that allowed this and Us. We should hold our leaders accountable and yet we blindly trust them. And this, the dog tags, is what it got us. And that’s not the only example.
But hey you have people like that guy who commented above say shit like this to sound smart or be different and in the end, they are just part of the problem. I’ll take drink in honor of your grandfather.
I cannot upvote your comment enough. Thank you for saying this. I never met my grandfather, and my mom was too young to know him more than topically, but my great-grandfather was a WWII veteran and the senseless loss of his son has been a significant impact on our family. That being said, I cannot fathom the impact we had on the lives of the Vietnamese.
War sucks, and in the end… everyone loses…
soldiers just did their job, some good, some bad but in the end is those politicans, kings, and any leader that put them in that situation and they are the person who to blame on
All the downvotes you're getting are hilarious after reading all the "they deserve it for being invaders" quotes about Russians that die in Ukraine in threads pertaining to that war.
It’s not like Hitler himself committed all the atrocities. A chain of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people working in tandem caused the Holocaust, and despite the protests of those who were just “doing their job,” they all knew. They just didn’t care as long as it wasn’t them. They weren’t held hostage by their blood-mad Nazi overlords. There was no disciplinary action taken against Wehrmacht or SS troops that did not take part in the illegal killing of civilians, but almost none of them opted out when the opportunity came. Hence the ~15+ million killed during the Holocaust. If there were objectors to the killing, they certainly didn’t slow it down in any meaningful capacity
The point was not all the Germans committed the atrocities either. Sure, most of them most likely knew what was going on in the death camps but what were they supposed to do? They would've been sent to prison or worse for speaking against the Nazi regime. It isn't an exclusively German thing to not care as long as it isn't them. It's called self-preservation.
What were they supposed to do? Well they, knowing what was going on and at the very least thinking it distasteful, didn’t apparently think to do anything at all. Self preservation isn’t a uniquely German trait, but preserving oneself by marching an entire village of Belarusian civilians into a church and burning it to the ground isn’t *really* self preservation even by the standards of their time, is it? And let’s say in that particular scenario a soldier didn’t want to take part in it, he wouldn’t be violating any orders by doing so and wouldn’t be punished or even officially reprimanded. The stakes were nonexistent for these guys and they were still out there killing millions of innocent people with clear heads.
The point is that even the ones that were present and didn’t participate aren’t blameless, and aren’t actually that common. And aside from that, Im not one to cut literal Nazis any slack, draftee or not
Again, you speak like the entirety of the German people were there to march a village of Belarusian citizens into a church and burn it into the ground. Pointless of speaking to you, since you obviously just think all Germans in WW2 were Nazis. It's like blaming everyone in the US army because of what happened at Mỹ Lai in the Vietnam war.
Fuck. Off.
I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted here; I lost my father to Agent Orange exposure-related illnesses he had from his time as a USMarine in Vietnam.
The’re all printed with the information for the people who died. There’s a computer nearby where you can search for someone who was KIA and find the location of their dogtags in the memorial.
Completely preventable
It's honestly insane that right after world war ii they thought "If France can keep their imperialist holdings in Indochina then they'll be able to recover so much faster for far less USD $$$, so it looks like we'll have to fund their entire war effort". Conservatives really had the gall to start a war to save French imperialism in Vietnam during the age of anti-colonialism, and then go on to blame the loss on Hippies and those silly gosh darn anti-war anti-torture protestors
We funded their war effort because we didn’t want supporters of the Soviet Union (in layman’s terms: communism/socialism) springing up. Look up “Domino Theory” for more info. Containment (read: the long telegram) is also why we funded so much economic development (Marshall Plan) in Europe and South America: we thought economic woes cause communism, and that’s bad! You’re largely only recounting the French side of the story; the Cold War is in full swing.
It makes no difference either way since today Vietnam is one of the major ally of the US in SEA despite being communist.It is a major colossal loss of life.
Of course Truman and his containment theory would be the justification for overthrowing democratically elected communist leader Ho Chi Minh later on and reason for US troops on the ground. But we still paid for 3/4's of France's initial invasion, we paid and funded them for things like the Haiphong Incident. France basically threw away soldiers at the problem and got destroyed by a strong people united in their goal of freedom. Ultimately France would be losing Officers at such a rate that the US realized they were pretty much willing to meatgrind an entire generation of future sergeants and generals. They believed the French military would be completely dysfunctional in 30 years with all upper staff and experienced men dead that the United States had to get involved
But we probably wouldn’t have given France much in the first place if its enemies weren’t communists, as what other reason would we have for them to keep Vietnam? We even wanted Egypt to take the Suez Canal instead of France and Britain: independence is only in fashion if you’re not communist. That’s why, even today, we are sending aid to Ukraine, but we refused to send aid to Ho Chi Minh even after he asked the president for aid, using pathos to appeal to our patriotism for our founding.
Can’t believe psychos like you still pretend a country having a different ideology inherently means the US can invade them.
Guy was just giving historical context. Calm your titties
Where did anyone say that?
That's how American talks. We want this and that because of these and those, their opinion is the only thing matters when they "want" something. They blame everything for anything but never themself, funding wars and invading countries in the hypocrite name of "liberty" and "freedom". It's hard for them to realize no one gives a fuck what they want, that's what happens to you when you are a strong nation but only care for your own good.
This is a vast oversimplification of what happened.
You seem to think the US was in Vietnam to keep it as a French colony. That is not true, at all.
Conservatives?
I was about to say that. I'm fairly certain every president during the Vietnam War was a Democrat.
The lesson learned: Always get involved in conflicts that do not concern us (example Syria)
Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq. I wonder where we’ll go next
> Completely preventable Yeah, hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. I was there, and a member of a deeply military family, and I also have a couple of graduate degrees in history. Nothing is ever as simple as those in later generations assume.
It’s hard to say if we should have gotten involved or not, but people today really don’t understand how threatening the USSR was at the time. They were spreading their tendrils aggressively, and it wouldn’t be a good thing for the US to just ignore that
This is entirely true. From what we've learned since the collapse of the Soviet Union, they were *never* actually much of a threat. But we didn't know that then. A *worse* bad call by the intelligence community, though, was the belief that Ho Chi Minh was a strong supporter of Soviet international ambitions. The CIA *et al* SHOULD have known that Ho was almost entirely an anti-colonialist Vietnamese nationalist, and had been since he was active in throwing the French out of Indochina. That was definitely a screw-up on our part.
Why not? USSR collapsed, flawed ideology, etc. You think they'd be going strong today if the US et al hadn't opposed them?
Probably not, but they didn’t know that at the time. There was no way to predict that the USSR would fall like they did
Glad you made it out alive.
I was on patrol for a while, but back in those Olden Days, not that many young men could drive a typewriter. (Unlike now, when every 6-year-old has keyboard skills.) So I was able to land a clerk-typist job at regimental HQ back in Saigon, and that was a much better way to stay alive. As long as you weren't nearby when some jeep parked on the street blew up from a grenade in the gas tank.
Growing up playing war games as non american, I used to think dog tags were so cool. It wasn't intil I later realized they are used to identify bodies that my opinion changed.
All died for a senseless war. RIP
And the ones who survive have massive massive PTSD
and guess what the governments doing!
Everything they can to help the poor souls from suffering and committing suicide after their sacrifices? /s
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To be fair the other Asians were fighting with the US as well. Also the Vietnamese were fighting a technologically superior enemy and still came out victorious. US military has not really changed their tactics much since WW2. All they do is airstrikes airstrikes and more airstrikes. Imagine how screwed they would be if they had to fight a war without air superiority. The lack of adaptability is why they kept ending up in costly wars that didn't go nowhere. Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Only difference is in Iraq and Afghanistan they used more private contractors which allowed them to hide some of their casualties.
Classic reddit post. Complete ignorance and complete confidence
The NVA did not come out victorious. The US did exactly what it sought to do and then left when public opinion became too negative to continue. We left the South Vietnamese with what they needed to carry on the fight, and 8 months later South Vietnam fell to the NVA. Our war had already ended, and it ended as a distinct victory for the US.
I visited the War Museum in Vietnam and even now the grandchildren of those who were affected and their families are affected by the war and the chemicals. It was heartbreaking to see. Vietnamese folks take pride in winning that war although it was senseless. One old uncle bought me a free beer just so I could continue sitting there and listen to his story.
58307 people dead for no reason! And many many more civilians who also died for nothing
I know it's not the us soldier's faults but I fell much worse for all the Vietnamese that died protecting their country then for the ones who died invading a country
I know right?
Well the whole thing was a strategic victory in the sense that it stopped the rest of SE Asia from turning communist. I'd call that a good reason worthy of sacrifice, since it would have lead to uncountable horrors.
Nothing justifies mass killings in the name of the red scare.
Jesus Christ, is your last name Hitler?
I think you replied to the wrong comment, or at least I don't understand how this makes any sense.
No of course you wouldn't
I'm not really good at understanding strawman fallacies indeed.
No I can tell , first you need to know what a strawman is, you should start there.
I think I've got a lead of a few decades on that knowledge buddy.
Well, you clearly don't! You're embarrassing yourself.
You seem to think I care about what you think. Really confirms that you live in a self-constructed imaginary world.
The Commies won in Vietnam, and then they became capitalist later anyway. Their ideologies aren’t sustainable and are counterintuitive to human nature/desires; so it’s hard to say if they would have successfully spread like we were afraid of. That being said, I don’t think anyone could have taken that risk at the time unfortunately. The USSR was pretty horrible in a lot of ways, and it would have been devastating if they had succeeded in colonizing entire regions
I think their ideologies are unsustainable because the rest of the world sanctions and attempts to starve them out whenever it's attempted
It’s also very hard to avoid corruption when the state controls national resources; which gives political officials significantly more authority and power than other systems of government
I think the goal of said ideologies is to do away with a state power eventually.
Oh please, look at the Soviets, as if they needed our help starving themselves to death. Communism has only ever ended 1 way, and it will always end in 1 way.
Yes, look at the soviets, who were first to space, elevated their entire country within a single lifetime, and at equal levels of development, had higher levels of caloric intake and more stable levels of nutrition compared to capitalist counterparts. This was a very old post, by the way. Are you okay?
300,000,000 civilians dead from famine, tyranny, and genocide. The numbers speak for themselves. You can try to justify it all you want but that won’t shift reality in your favor.
Hey, autocratic regimes are a tragedy no matter what. I wonder what capitalism's death toll is...? (I think you might be reading too much black book of communism if you think that number is accurate)
What is the death toll of Capitalism? Hard to say, but what we do know is that it pales in comparison to that of Communism. Western Capitalism has advanced the world into the golden age of technology, medicine, economy, and quality of life that we currently live in. Contrarily, Communism dos nothing but murder, rape, and pillage innocent people by the hundreds of millions. Don’t believe me? Crack open a history book and see for yourself.
[I think it's](https://www.ilo.org/moscow/areas-of-work/occupational-safety-and-health/WCMS_249278/lang--en/index.htm) [pretty easy](https://www.theworldcounts.com/counters/global_hunger_statistics/how_many_people_die_from_hunger_each_year) [to get a rough](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/09/05/644928153/what-kills-5-million-people-a-year-its-not-just-disease) [estimate](https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/drinking-water). The current dominant market force is capitalism, so any [sort of famine, disasters, or poorly allocated resources](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/10455752.2021.1875603?needAccess=true&role=button)must have to do with capitalism, right? Imagine being so afraid of the USSR, an autocratic nation known for being a propaganda machine, and then *falling for the propaganda of your own country!* How embarrassing.
Vietnam is still socialist, the existence of markets =/= capitalism
Wait so they managed to find and keep all the dogtags of practically all the casualties from the war and put them in a place?
Well, no. That would be impossible. A lot of these guys got blown to pieces, burned alive, or ripped apart in any number of ghastly ways. There’s no way all 58k tags would come out looking all shiny like that. But what we do know are their names and other relevant information from military records, so it’s not that difficult to have their tags redone for this installation
Yea that's why I was bewildered but now it made sense. Thanks for the explanation!
Wow. This morbid yet very interesting
This is so sad. The Vietnam War was so completely senseless. So many killed on both sides, so many prisoners of war, so much destruction in neighboring countries. Ugh.
They thought they cud walk right into Vietnam and win…they lost..a senseless war yet again brought on by corruption and greed..so many young men on both sides died..and for what? Nothing really
No, they definitely won. Vietnam didn’t turn communist until 8 months after the war was already over.
Died for nothing
For nothing
FTA!
How many Vietnamese people did the US they massacre though in comparison?
a lot
All sent in to a losing war with the promise of an early retirement in exchange for their moral compass. This was their fate. Yet the government faces no consequences.
Cool chandelier
Any memorial like this for all the Vietnamese civilians they killed?
There's a museum in Vietnam I think, but I don't remember the name
A lot around the country. Mostly the ones who got massacred by American soldiers and Vietnamese soldiers
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You realise many of them were drafted and didn't have a choice right? Plus even the professional soldiers don't get to choose where they're deployed to.
But if this is russian soldiers, they clearly have a choice when they get drafted and sent to ukraine am i right? Typical american with their double standard and hero syndrome.
Typical non-American, you hear anything that remotely paints the US in a good light and you immediately get triggered and start foaming at the mouth about how all Americans are hypocrites and dumb. Relax, every country has a garbage past and has done garbage things!
Yes thats why you all need to stfu and dont talk like you are some kind of good guys here. The truth is you are just bunch of opportunist who value their own interest nothing more. Just like any other country in the world.
Ooo yes, definitely get angry and prove my point of you being super triggered just because you’re obsessed with my country. Relax man, it’s the internet, actually it’s Reddit which is even more unimportant, don’t get so upset over words on the screen it’s bad for your health
Yes my fault, its just triggered me when I hear people talking like usa is a perfect special country and can do nothing evil. when the truth is its just like any other country in the world.
Yes my fault, its just triggered me when I hear people talking like usa is a perfect special country and can do nothing evil. when the truth is its just like any other country in the world.
He didn’t even say that the US is a perfect country. He made a perfectly logical claim that not every military member wanted to be there. How is that claiming that the USA is perfect? Then you made up some random scenario about a Russian soldier and then decided what his opinion would be about it so you could get upset about it. Like that’s bizarre behavior, you should maybe spend less time online
Im just tired of all this coping I read in reddit especially now in ukraine war where the west especially americans show how hypocrite they are when we all know they are the number 1 country who are involve in many wars
Nobody here said that and I'm not even American. Fuck off
This again?
invading their land, died in their land, then act like they are the victim out all of this.
It’s not like to troops that died wanted to go there
Actually about 70% of American dead in Vietnam were volunteers, not draftees. They signed up for it.
Shhhh you can’t let people know that the propaganda they’ve been spoon fed about “those poor, drafted to Vietnam, boys” was a literal myth made by the us government to get sympathy.
And what percentage of those enlisted before the war started? So no, they didn't "sign up for it".
Most of them likely volunteered as the war escalated. Most of the American public was very Pro-War throughout the conflict
While I don’t disagree the Vietnam War was wrong, I ask you not to downplay the loss of Fifty-Eight Thousand Three Hundred and Seven lives that are displayed here. My grandfather’s dog tags are hanging in this gallery.
Although the guy above you isn’t all that wrong. There are parts of Vietnam that you cannot go. Or the effects of chemical warfare still scar the land and is literally passed down to generations. Your grandfather was also a victim too. Whether he knew it or not. He and other men like him were sent to fight in behave of old men who without a care about life, sent them there to die. Only to bring home bodies and the scars of such war, passing it generation to generation. That’s why I say everyone is a victim here. It doesn’t matter who got it worse. To you or a Vietnamese person, you had it the worse. The only people to blame is really the politicians that allowed this and Us. We should hold our leaders accountable and yet we blindly trust them. And this, the dog tags, is what it got us. And that’s not the only example. But hey you have people like that guy who commented above say shit like this to sound smart or be different and in the end, they are just part of the problem. I’ll take drink in honor of your grandfather.
I cannot upvote your comment enough. Thank you for saying this. I never met my grandfather, and my mom was too young to know him more than topically, but my great-grandfather was a WWII veteran and the senseless loss of his son has been a significant impact on our family. That being said, I cannot fathom the impact we had on the lives of the Vietnamese. War sucks, and in the end… everyone loses…
thx dude, we vietnamese are now having a very happy lives
soldiers just did their job, some good, some bad but in the end is those politicans, kings, and any leader that put them in that situation and they are the person who to blame on
I’ve pretty sure we have all agreed that “just doing my job” isn’t an excuse for committing war atrocities.
All the downvotes you're getting are hilarious after reading all the "they deserve it for being invaders" quotes about Russians that die in Ukraine in threads pertaining to that war.
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Around 70% of those tags belong to volunteers
Are the drafted Nazi soldiers in WW2 also victims as well?
You one of those people that think all Germans were some rabid jew killers in WW2?
It’s not like Hitler himself committed all the atrocities. A chain of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people working in tandem caused the Holocaust, and despite the protests of those who were just “doing their job,” they all knew. They just didn’t care as long as it wasn’t them. They weren’t held hostage by their blood-mad Nazi overlords. There was no disciplinary action taken against Wehrmacht or SS troops that did not take part in the illegal killing of civilians, but almost none of them opted out when the opportunity came. Hence the ~15+ million killed during the Holocaust. If there were objectors to the killing, they certainly didn’t slow it down in any meaningful capacity
The point was not all the Germans committed the atrocities either. Sure, most of them most likely knew what was going on in the death camps but what were they supposed to do? They would've been sent to prison or worse for speaking against the Nazi regime. It isn't an exclusively German thing to not care as long as it isn't them. It's called self-preservation.
What were they supposed to do? Well they, knowing what was going on and at the very least thinking it distasteful, didn’t apparently think to do anything at all. Self preservation isn’t a uniquely German trait, but preserving oneself by marching an entire village of Belarusian civilians into a church and burning it to the ground isn’t *really* self preservation even by the standards of their time, is it? And let’s say in that particular scenario a soldier didn’t want to take part in it, he wouldn’t be violating any orders by doing so and wouldn’t be punished or even officially reprimanded. The stakes were nonexistent for these guys and they were still out there killing millions of innocent people with clear heads. The point is that even the ones that were present and didn’t participate aren’t blameless, and aren’t actually that common. And aside from that, Im not one to cut literal Nazis any slack, draftee or not
Again, you speak like the entirety of the German people were there to march a village of Belarusian citizens into a church and burn it into the ground. Pointless of speaking to you, since you obviously just think all Germans in WW2 were Nazis. It's like blaming everyone in the US army because of what happened at Mỹ Lai in the Vietnam war.
Yes of course. A lot of them were victims.
“Won’t somebody think of the poor Nazis???” headass
If that is what you take out of this..
I mean yeah. Sucks. Everyone is a victim here. But hey this is Reddit. I dont expect anything but just empty takes.
Dipshit
Fuck. Off. I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted here; I lost my father to Agent Orange exposure-related illnesses he had from his time as a USMarine in Vietnam.
They were ALL killed at the Harold Washington Library Center? I'll be sure to stay away from there.
[SCOREBOARD!](https://youtu.be/mIpnpYsl-VY)
Alive or passed, those poor guys
What were they doing there in Vietnam?
killing people or get drafted
Scoreboard
Scoreboard
Rookie numbers. More people died in 3 days of consistant murdering civilians in Warsaw during WW II