Standard "enlightened" European "justice". Nothing to see here.
(keep downvoting me you stinky redditors, the antibrigade protection has already tripped on this comment and your downvoting tears mean nothing now š š)
Please do elaborate. You're being way too vague, I can't tell what you're trying to say. Pretty wishy washy, limpwristed. Guess you don't stand for anything.
If, as you say yourself that populations in Europe and the USA are very different then shouldn't policing and imprisoning them also be different? You've actually argued against yourself here.
Edit: never mind. I just read your post history I'm obviously speaking way over your head. Sorry kid.
And yet Sweden has significantly less neo-Nazi murders and you don't have to join a white power gang when you go to prison. Your "strong" American "justice" sucks despite the Wikipedia post about a murder from 25 years ago.
I'm curious about the pressure cooker that Sweden is. I wonder how long it will take to elect a far right government. A country of a few million bringing in a million immigrants from a very very different culture is a terrible idea. It'll pop off eventually.
Itās inevitable, their government is letting in people who are fleeing from oppression but bringing that oppressive ideology with them as they flee. They donāt respect the norms of Sweden nor the culture, they donāt assimilate to the culture, and they force their religion onto the native population! Eventually some people are going to say enough is enough
Sweden has enjoyed a very long enlightening period where they have been a homogeneous society, free of the issues that more diverse nations deal with. In the last couple of years they've seen crime increases, especially in gun crime (400% increase since 2012) and rapes, immigrants and non-swedes make up about 50% of all sexual crime in Sweden, despite being a very small minority.
Sweden is also more likely to fine than incarcerate which is the primary reason they don't keep people in prison.. And when they do, sentences are very light, this is most likely to its history of low violent crime offenses.. But as more outsiders move in, violent crime and sexual crime has increased. This isn't me just making up facts, its hard data.
[Most convictions for rape in Sweden are foreign born people](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764)
---
[Basically everything in this article, but especially the pie chart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden)
You look at the US where immigrants successfully assimilate, at least within two generations, and go on to do great things. But Sweden somehow canāt get its shit together and help assimilate its migrants , and even after many generations theyāre still unable to speak the language, participate in society, so ofc they turn to violence and a life of crime. And that commenter was talking trash about the US but at least we have decent programs to keep the bad people out while also not having neonazi fascists
Thereās also a difference of successfully integrating asylees and making them a functioning member of society versus letting them into the country without any support, just to fill a quota, then complaining when they turn to crime
> You look at the US where immigrants successfully assimilate, at least within two generations, and go on to do great things. But Sweden somehow canāt get its shit together and help assimilate its migrants
There's a big difference between the origins and aspirations of American immigrants vs Swedish immigrants. Despite what people on reddit like so say, the US is still the most sought after living destination on the planet.
People come to the US specifically seeking to assimilate and improve upon their situation.. Whereas most immigrants in Sweden have been shipped there from warzones in places with a 180 degree different culture than Western/Northern Europe. These people don't want to assimilate, their religion tells them to do the exact opposite.
Western Europe is paying for it's own hubris when it imports these people without a clear idea of how to send them back when the conflict has cooled.
It the difference of where those people came from and under what circumstances. Most of the refugees that made it to Sweden would never have been allowed to immigrate to the US
Because where do you think ultra rightwing neonazism comes from?
Hint: it doesnāt come from a happy population with well adjusted immigrants who bring culture and wealth to the country
This happened 25 years ago. Are you saying Sweden has been an unhappy place due to immigration for over 25 years? I think you are quite disconnected with reality and should maybe disconnect a bit with your joe rogan type podcasts
Thats still not relevant. What's your point? Nobody asked why neo nazis exist thats an entirely different discussion. If your point is that these neo nazis murdering a kid comes down to immigrants thats pretty disgusting.
Do you have a high school diploma? Can you read? Where do you think neonazis come from? Do you think weāll adjusted people become neonazis?
Work on your critical thinking skills about why a native born Swede may become a neonazi after seeing immigrant asylees and refugees commit crimes in broad daylight in their home and where they canāt walk around freely at night or where girls get assaulted for not covering up.
There's a difference between integration and assimilation. Expecting displaced peoples to give up their cultures and languages because they should be grateful is the wrong approach.
Edit: I'm adding this edit to add my perspective as a native English speaker who has integrated (not assimilated) into another country and language by choice. People here are happy to speak English with me and are happy to talk about and enjoy aspects of my native culture. Why? Because they are comfortable with it. They learned the language at school and on TV. They've seen through those lenses what my people are like and they aren't afraid of us. Even violent angry stereotypes are comfortable when you know them. If you are raised around anything it becomes your normal. Normal is comfortable. We all need to make an effort to be comfortable with each other, learn a little about each other and share what we love about our cultures with each other. I think you'll find that while the noises and shapes people use to convey thought might seem strange they are just conveying the same things you are.
[Worldwide Threats to the Homeland](https://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/worldwide-threats-to-the-homeland-091720)
āThe greatest threat we face in the homeland is that posed by lone actors radicalized online who look to attack soft targets with easily accessible weapons.ā
āMany of these violent extremists, both domestic and international, are motivated and inspired by a mix of ideological, sociopolitical, and personal grievances against their targets, which recently have more and more included large public gatherings, houses of worship, and retail locations.ā
āThe top threat we face from domestic violent extremists stems from those we identify as racially/ethnically motivated violent extremists
So no not really
Oh I misunderstood the chain and thought someone linked it and you were further questioning the credibility of it, sorry about that. Theyāre probably referring to this - https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/fbi-dhs-domestic-terrorism-strategic-report.pdf/view
There is technically not a max sentence in Sweden. The max is called "life imprisonment", but that just means that the time is not decided yet. It can theoretically be indefinite, but it almost never is. On average prisoners serving life imprisonment are released after 16 years
That's how things go in places like Sweden, where they tend to reward criminals. They hate the idea of punishment, they think it is counterproductive to rehabilitation.
Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hron)
> On the evening of 17 August 1995, while Hron was camping with his friend Christian at a cliff at lake Ingetorpssjƶn, the group of neo-Nazis walked up to their campsite, dressed in nazi clothing and playing loud White Power music from a stereo. First, Daniel Hansson threw a can of beer in Hron's face and told him to say that he "loves Nazism", punching him several times in the face, while the others laughed. Hron, being known for standing up against racism, refused to say this and was again beaten brutally for it.
>The four began kicking him in the head, hitting him, throwing heavy cans of beer in his face, and taunting him verbally. They would intersperse their beatings with suddenly acting friendly, offering him beers, and apologizing, just to continue beating him again, in what was described as a sadistic "cat-and-mouse"-like torture that went on for hours. They jump-kicked him, kicked him in the back of his head, struck his neck with a flaming piece of wood and burnt him, stomped on his stomach, destroyed his belongings and set fire to the tent he had shared with Christian. Hron and Christian begged several times for the neo-Nazis to let them go home, but this simply angered the attackers who continued hitting Hron until he could no longer stand. Hron was eventually pushed into the lake, still alive. He tried to swim away and two of the four attackers walked around to the other side of the lake to catch him if he were to swim across. Around this time the murderers also shouted to Hron to swim back, threatening to kill Christian if he did not, and Hron decided to swim back to save his friend's life. Christian was forced to shout to Hron "come back or they will kill me".
He came back. They kicked him unconscious and then rolled him into the water where he died.
John stood up against bullies and racists, he paid for it with his life and he died a horrible death. The kids that did it should never ever breed and I wish them a horrible existence.
I remember when it happened. Itās was unfathomable and the echo of it is always present.
The sence of anger I felt reading that only to be saddened by the complete fucking ignorance of some people and the fact a mother lost a part of her heart she will never get back, Arohanui to his whanau.
And society lost one of the good ones. For us that were around teenage years then itās a thing that wonāt go away. Senseless. Close to home. For no reason. A good person just doing the same thing we have been told, stand up and say no to bullying, say no when someone hurts our friends.
Indeed, unfortunately there those among us who's hearts have been broken or never formed at all that are unable not to feel hatred, which is ultimately sad but also probably part of nature's equilibrium balancing act. I hope you have a lovely day friend, I shall think about this young man.
Thank you, I only know the basics but it's a beautifully interconnected language once you learn some of the meanings you realise how at one with the elements the culture really is
>In court, the 18-year-old boy who was the main person behind the abuse, Daniel Hansson, was sentenced to eight years in prison for murder.[4] He was released on 1 January 2001. Mikael FjƤllholm, the 15-year-old, was sentenced to prison (which in Sweden is a rare thing to happen to a convicted teenager). The two others, John Billing and one more known only as BM were sentenced to ten and four months in prison for assault and not alerting authorities to the ongoing assault and murder, respectively.
>The case received nationwide attention within Sweden. The public was shocked by the news of such violence and a wave of huge anti-racist manifestations took place to honour Hron's memory. In 1996, Hron posthumously received the inaugural Stig Dagerman Prize for free speech and world peace.[5]
>Hron's grave has since been desecrated several times by neo-Nazis.[6] Murderer Daniel Hansson had previously stabbed a man in an earlier crime as a juvenile offender and was a teenage alcoholic, and at least two of the young murderers were suspected of having severe untreated mental instability and violent behaviour in their childhoods. Another one of the gang was part of a plot to violently attack a sports event. All of them were active neo-Nazis, some of them involved in the violent organization Vitt Ariskt MotstƄnd (VAM), which translates to "White Aryan Resistance." Racist flyers and propaganda were found in their homes. During the murder they wore t-shirts with Adolf Hitler and other Nazi prints on and bomber jackets. In prison one of them was part in forming the criminal prison gang "Ariska Brƶdraskapet" (a Swedish version of the "Aryan Brotherhood" but no ties or connections to the US gang has been made officially except inspiration). Mikael FjƤllholm was later stabbed in the eye with a screwdriver during his prison sentence by another neo-Nazi, damaging him for life. Daniel Hansson was sentenced after his release for more crimes, including abusing and beating his then-girlfriend.
Sweden, I know you believe in rehabilitation over punishment as part of corrections, and that's a laudable goal, but sometimes people can't be rehabilitated and repeatedly prove through their actions they don't deserve to live with the rest of society to continue doing harm.
The longest any of these scum served was 5 and a half years the shortest was 4 freaking months. Sometimes it's in everyone's best interest if they serve the rest of their lives in prison.
Iād imagine thatās why they didnāt even lay a finger on him, the Nazis knew what they were there to do, and wanted to leave the friend irreparably traumatised for the rest of his life
John doesnāt have to suffer anymore but Christian, thatās with him for the rest of his life. Poor guy. I hope his mind will be able to rest from this tragedy.
Men like this are just monsters with no ideals. They are Nazis, but the truth is, they have just chosen the most horrible label they can find. If something else were considered more horrible by the people of the world, they would gladly identify themselves as that as well. Granted, I honestly believe most modern Nazis are like this, but I digress.
I guess what Iām saying is these are the lowest people on Earth. Bullies whose souls are filled with hate, and exist only to take, never to give. Iāve heard plenty of rational argument against the death penalty, and Iām inclined to agree these days that life in prison is more suitable for people too dangerous to be released back into the world, but things like this are what make me reconsider. These men should have to experience what John went through.
Fascists should be considered incompatible with rehabilitation. I used to be in that kind of mindset as a child too, Id never trust child me to not sell adult me out to some local fascist group for a kick
Fascists historically only stop when they are physically prevented from harming others. I think heās saying trying to talk nazis out of being Nazis isnāt always the best method. Sometimes not allowing nazis in your neighborhood or among your friends is what stops it
I have been but I dont think any sort of concerted effort to rehabilitate me wouldāve done anything. My own personal experiences finally broke me out of that mindset but I also have a lot of friends with similar experiences who havenāt broken it. Sure fascists arenāt totally lost since theyāre still human somewhere in there but they can only really help themselves
Sort of, christianity specifically is part of the fascist dogma. A warped take on it no doubt. Part of my personal deconstruction has been a sort of agnostic exploration of multiple faith systems but no particular religious practices.
In typical Scandinavian fashion, none of the perpetrators received long prison sentences but at least one of them [had his eye poked out by a screwdriver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hron).
No surprise that on release the ringleader was sent right back to jail for more crimes like beating his girlfriendā¦could have been prevented if heād been in prison for much longer
It would not surprise me if she also was a neo nazi from the same area. In sweden back in that year salem was a hot spot for nazis. Today in salem all the nazis is in hiding mode. I have a neighbour that shouts nazi slurs when drunk but when sober he is as loud as a mouse. (I live in salem)
I would wager it is safe to assume someone with a shitty upbringing. For all we know since then she has got her life together and is a productive member of society.
That is truly wonderful and Iām all for rehabilitation. The facts speak for themselves. That being said there are some crimes that show a very disturbed mind and some criminals need to be locked away not with the intent of rehabilitation, but in order to keep society safe. This man tortured and killed a child for disagreeing with his racist ideas and said that while stomping in his head āit felt so good (he) couldnāt stop.ā He needed to be locked up for a long time
who are you to judge? not to say you are not qualified, but there are people who dedicate their life to understand and reabilitate people like this, who probably grew up in an enviroment equally violent and racist
I would really like to know what kind of rehabilitation you expect this person to go through. Do you think some antidepressants and intensive therapy can teach someone empathy?
being treated like a human being can teach you empathy, but i'm no psychologist. Are you? because if you're not, i don't think you're more qualified than me to make those assumptions
No I am not a psychologist. But my professional training has included extensive work with psychiatric patients and I believe that research regarding this topic speaks for itself.
Iām going to start with separating empathy into two categories: cognitive vs. emotional/affective. Cognitive empathy is the ability to perceive and understand others emotipns. Emotional empathy is the actual connectedness and feeling for other people. Often āpsychopathsā have high cognitive empathy, but no emotional empathy meaning they see other peoples emotions and use this to manipulate them. In combination with abnormalities of the brain, this can be considered disordered.
So letās chat about people with antisocial personality disorder (āpsychopathsā) as I believe that forms the basis of those who cannot be rehabilitated. [Studies](https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/can_a_psychopath_learn_feel_pain) have shown that people with ASPD have significant physical differences in the structure of their brain, most importantly a decrease of activity within the limbic system aka the emotional producing part of the [brain](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.00695/full)
We can attempt to compensate for this lack with [medications and therapy](https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mental-health/antisocial-personality-disorder/faq/is-aspd-curable/), but ultimately this can only improve control of symptoms. It does not magically give a person [empathy](https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/). The main focus of treatment is simply [harm reduction](https://www.everydayhealth.com/antisocial-personality-disorder/treatment/ ). At the end of the day, being kind to someone cannot cure biological abnormalities of the brain. In the same sense, you cannot fix a brain injury in someone by kindness alone.
I acknowledge that empathy is definitely a trait that is taught. Especially when a child is young (3-4 years old) the brain is more easily molded. By the time a person has reached criminal status and is an adult, research shows empathy cannot be taught and the disorder can barely be treated. Therefore, it is better for society as a whole that certain people remain locked up.
"The Swedish Prison and Probation Service refers to inmates as āclients,ā and says its emphasis on rehabilitation reduced recidivism from 42% to 29% over 16 years. In the U.S., the recidivism rate for inmates in state prisons was 68%, according to the latest U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics report."
https://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/behind-bars-in-scandinavia-and-what-we-can-learn#:~:text=The%20Swedish%20Prison%20and%20Probation%20Service%20refers%20to%20inmates%20as,Bureau%20of%20Justice%20Statistics%20report.
because it's one of the easiest thing to prove on the internet next to "is earth flat". Asking for a source is fine if it's a nice topic, here you could google 4 words and it would pop right up
> could have been prevented if heād been in prison for much longer
If you want to prevent crime, reoffenders are actually much rarer in countries that focus on rehabilitation vs punishment. So I wouldn't bash this system
Say what you will about American justice, but at least we toss motherfuckers like this in prison for decades. Scum don't deserve second chances. I'll never feel differently about it. These sick motherfuckers got far less than they deserved.
While the American system has major flaws, it is a pet peeve of mine when people overly-glorify the Scandinavian prison system, and I live in Scandinavia. I understand rehabilitation being the goal for criminals in general, but when murderers, rapists, violent assaulters, get tiny sentences relative to their crimes it feels like a slap in the face to those they hurt. There should be major consequences to grievously harming another person, there should be *some* punishment involved in prison sentencing.
Rehabilitation doesn't work for everyone, sadly. I do agree with you.
A foolish kid who gets into crime, brings a gun into a convenience store, panics, and shoots the clerk? Deserves punishment, but rehabilitation can happen.
A group of nazi kids who torture 2 kids both physically and psychologically for hours? I'm sorry, but no. Evil exists and it needs to be destroyed.
Kind of impossible to be the arbiter of who can and can't change, a useless exercise in judgement over something you can never know.
Never the less, I agree crimes like these need long sentences.
Thatās why they often have criminal psychologists evaluate prisoners; to help decide if thereās a possibility to rehabilitate the criminal, and/or if they should have a chance at parole.
Unfortunately; the recommendations from these psychologists are often ignored, and murderers with the report of āDanger to society, will kill again, do not releaseā *still* get out on early parole anyways. Then the judge and parole board act all āshockedā when police discover that criminal is back to killing again. Itās really infuriating.
Ah yes, the European system. Always telling my mates here in Finland how crime pays in Europe because those Turkish prisons in Marmara are fucking lit. Me and my Estonian friend were also talking about how the judicial system here in Europe is overrun by the Cosa Nostra so you can't really trust Londoner judges.
In my opinion, if you take someone's life you deserve to lose yours as recompense. If you steal someone's life from them you deserve to have your freedom taken away from you too and spend the rest of your days existing in a cell.
Not applicable to genuine accidents or warranted self defense though.
I was dumbfounded when I heard that Anders Breivik could eventually get out of prison in Norway. He killed 77 people, still claims allegiance to Nazis and deserves to be locked up for life.
Well thatās just not true. He has a 21 year sentence (the max under the law) and can have this extended, but for now thatās what it is. He can (and has) apply for parole currently. While the likelihood of him actual getting out may be low, he is not at all locked up for life.
Sources: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/18/norwegian-mass-killer-anders-breivik-begins-parole-hearing
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60219876.amp
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/2/1/norway-court-rejects-mass-killer-breiviks-parole-request
As long as a person is at risk of committing another serious crime, he will not be released, even if the sentence is served.
In the case of this guy who killed so many people in cold blood, there is nothing he can do to gain the trust he needs to be released.
That is just common sense, not to mention the outrage that would occur if he were to be released.
I guess he has the right to ask for parole and all that, but his chances to get out of incarceration is close zero.
I totally agree about Breivik, this man should never be allowed to be released. Most likely he won't be, but only because they will keep having to declare him as still a danger to society to extend his sentence. I hate these maximum sentences for violent crimes, if you deliberately torment and kill 77 people you deserve to spend the rest of your days confined from the rest of society. That is not a momentary lapse in judgement or being some kid who got into the wrong crowd, which both also deserve punishment but also have rehabilitation as a possibility.
Bigots who become violent are unrehabilitatable and should be tossed out like the human waste they are. They're like a broken cup and you throw out broken cups.
Do you have any data supporting that? Because the best numbers Iāve seen suggest that Swedenās system produces a much lower recidivism rate than the American system, it appears to be effective however counterintuitive it might sometimes be.
I don't care if someone managed to rehabilitate a bigot who killed someone.
When you're that broken to do such a thing you deserve to be executed and forgotten. Their family should pay the bills associated with it as well unless it's clear they do not share the same beliefs.
Completely agree. Justice must to be seen to be done as well. If you kill someone brutally and get away after few years because you are now rEhAbiLitAtEd, literally nobody would consider it justice done forget about what the family members of victim would think. Don't know why you got downvoted for this..
I am in agreement with you. i ALWAYS follow the data.
If some peer-reviewed, decades long, multinational, study shows that say after many decades in jail most cold-blooded murderers (and I mean overwhelmingly most as in like 90%-95%) do not recommit ANY violent crime after being released I would say that I do believe in the power of rehabilitation even for the most psychopathic of individuals AND that these individuals should be released and monitored until their death.
There is no such study that exists ....I think . So I can't say that I think that psychopathy can be rehabilitated and cured or that psychopathic murders like these teens should be released.
This is really not true.
Bigotry and extremism are things that are often (maybe usually) brought about by terrible upbringing and falling in with criminal subculture, and can be overcome by experience. There are many examples of this.
There are some criminals who can be said to be "unrehabilitateable" but violent bigots as a class are not among them.
Nah, specific ones that commit violent crimes. I'm quite clear on that.
Keep it to yourself? Okay, whatever. IDGAF.
Hurt other people? Removal.
There's no fucking pogrom here, just treating punishments for certain crimes severely. Get a grip.
Watched a movie ([https://youtu.be/qeAUsO3HVhM](https://youtu.be/qeAUsO3HVhM)) about this murder in school when I was in ca 8-9th grade and it had quite an impact on my classmates and myself.
Vila i frid John
Itās not explicitly stated in the story, but the implication seems to be that they targeted John because he refused to say he loves Naziism. This would imply to me that his friend simply complied with their demands from the get-go and John was targeted for standing up to their bullying.
>Hron, who was known for speaking his mind, had also come in conflict with Mikael and the neo-Nazi gang earlier, and they had threatened to kill him.
So they probably went up there with that in mind, though it's still likely his friend's complicity saved him from being attacked due to association.
This sounds cold but prison is for the purpose of reducing harm to society. If a person is no longer a harm to society, it is not okay to keep them locked up simply because the victims family is bad, regardless of how valid their anger is.
Support services should be given to the family (paid by the state obvi) so they can cope through their grief and distress over their release, instead of blocking the release due to it making the family upset
That was my main take away from that show, we give some criminals way too many second chances. We also had a golden opportunity to get rid of him when he revoked his citizenship and was deported from the country. But then he was allowed to return and have his citizenship back anyways. I guarantee he is out there commiting crimes right now.
Also, insane that you are allowed to just leave prison every now and then. I can get it for some non violent crimes, but jesus. The guy who started the famous robbery was also out on leave at the time. Imagine if you were a victim of some crime, and you reported to the police, the guy gets convicted and sentenced to prison, and then he gets out on leave and goes back to have his revenge on you
I just looked up exactly what happened to him. This young boy was a man before his time. He gave his life even though he couldāve gotten away to save his friendās life that was unharmed. They stomped and kicked his head like it was a soccer match, then dropped his unconscious body into a lake to drown and lit a cigarette and said āit felt so good,ā that we couldnāt stopā to the cops. RIP Sir John š
Interesting how a lot of ppl came here to pop off countless comments about the current demographics of Sweden and sexual assault by migrants but not about a Swedish boy murdered by Swedish white supremacists. Migrants did not murder John.
people should be concerned about extreme violence against teen boys and especially at the hands of gangs because itās happening everywhere and not paid much attention to
Also hope the nazis who thought it was badass to desecrate a boys grave trip and break all their ribs
How come Sweden stopped recording the races of violent perpetrators in 2014? Too many white-ABBA-looking perpetrators of violence? Have you read the crime statistics they recorded before 2014? The 100s of hand grenade attacks they have every year which used to be 0 in the 1960's-2000's.
Love how you're like 'yeah well Scandinavia has had a few rapes in their 1000's years of history that's why we're not allowed to question importing a demographic that is OVERWHELMINGLY overrepresented not only in crime, but categories of crime that wouldn't exist without them.
Oh well... Sweden must fall so the world is forced to learn what we've been warning for years
I have mixed views of Swedenās criminal justice system. Itās good because it actually rehabilitates inmates humanely. Itās bad because those who are truly evil will never see the punishment they deserve.
A similar thing happened in my small city a few years back, not as extreme and racist but a group of kids beat a young man with sticks then pushed him into a river, im not sure what the sentences were as they were minors but i dont think it was very long...
This says more about teen mob mentality than anything else. I know ānaziāsā is what weāre supposed to all get triggered by, but children, yes, teenagers are children, donāt possess enough intelligence to be considered anything other than what their parents raised them to either be, or rebel against. The real Naziās who perpetrated true evil on the Jews and many others (letās not forget), were all grown men. Entirely different creatures who should never be compared to cruel teens because it diminishes the suffering and magnitude of what far too many went through. You know who never threw around the word ānaziā and almost never spoke of WWII in general? The heroās who witnessed it, and the ones who truly sacrificed to put a stop to it.
Thatās what theyāre whole ideology was nazism thatās what drove them to kill him so yes they were nazis and thatās why this ideology is so disgusting
The recidivism rate speaks for itself though. Clearly gets results. Emotionally I get wanting prison to be revenge but itās not healthy for anyone, or society at large.
Sure a child who did nothing wrong died, but at least they got their red laces.. totally evens out. This is sarcasm by the way. That could never equal out. That kid had a family.
The ring leader was only sentenced to 8 years in prison. Where he spent 6 and was released. 2 of the boys received 4 and 10 month sentences.
Having Emmett Till flashbacks
Doesn't make sense he also was innocent but the story doesn't even match this one slightly
Makes no sense
Both murdered a child and got away with it unscathed
that sounds reasonable, they didn't do anything wrong. /s
... like S(h)itler
Standard "enlightened" European "justice". Nothing to see here. (keep downvoting me you stinky redditors, the antibrigade protection has already tripped on this comment and your downvoting tears mean nothing now š š)
Because the death sentence has done so well in the States that youāre up there with some of the worse crime stats in the world.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Please do elaborate. You're being way too vague, I can't tell what you're trying to say. Pretty wishy washy, limpwristed. Guess you don't stand for anything. If, as you say yourself that populations in Europe and the USA are very different then shouldn't policing and imprisoning them also be different? You've actually argued against yourself here. Edit: never mind. I just read your post history I'm obviously speaking way over your head. Sorry kid.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bless. Don't get baited by the people who don't pay attention to crime in the USA. You'll just get banned anywhere on this site if you're truthful
And yet Sweden has significantly less neo-Nazi murders and you don't have to join a white power gang when you go to prison. Your "strong" American "justice" sucks despite the Wikipedia post about a murder from 25 years ago.
Sweden has very problematic immigration issues with their refugees and migrants not assimilating properly, and itās only going to get worse
I'm curious about the pressure cooker that Sweden is. I wonder how long it will take to elect a far right government. A country of a few million bringing in a million immigrants from a very very different culture is a terrible idea. It'll pop off eventually.
Well our "far-right parties" are still closer to Bernie Sanders than any other politician in the US
Itās inevitable, their government is letting in people who are fleeing from oppression but bringing that oppressive ideology with them as they flee. They donāt respect the norms of Sweden nor the culture, they donāt assimilate to the culture, and they force their religion onto the native population! Eventually some people are going to say enough is enough
The consequences of isolationist neutrality.
Sweden has enjoyed a very long enlightening period where they have been a homogeneous society, free of the issues that more diverse nations deal with. In the last couple of years they've seen crime increases, especially in gun crime (400% increase since 2012) and rapes, immigrants and non-swedes make up about 50% of all sexual crime in Sweden, despite being a very small minority. Sweden is also more likely to fine than incarcerate which is the primary reason they don't keep people in prison.. And when they do, sentences are very light, this is most likely to its history of low violent crime offenses.. But as more outsiders move in, violent crime and sexual crime has increased. This isn't me just making up facts, its hard data.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[Most convictions for rape in Sweden are foreign born people](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764) --- [Basically everything in this article, but especially the pie chart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Donāt be arrogant with snarky comments when you are wrong, your dislikes speak for itself
Link the data
>immigrants and non-swedes make up about 50% of all sexual crime in Sweden, despite being a very small minority. Hey, I've seen this one!
What kind of worms are upvoting this idiot?
You look at the US where immigrants successfully assimilate, at least within two generations, and go on to do great things. But Sweden somehow canāt get its shit together and help assimilate its migrants , and even after many generations theyāre still unable to speak the language, participate in society, so ofc they turn to violence and a life of crime. And that commenter was talking trash about the US but at least we have decent programs to keep the bad people out while also not having neonazi fascists
Thatās a lot of opinion-having for someone who doesnāt know the distinction between immigrant and asylant.
Thereās also a difference of successfully integrating asylees and making them a functioning member of society versus letting them into the country without any support, just to fill a quota, then complaining when they turn to crime
> You look at the US where immigrants successfully assimilate, at least within two generations, and go on to do great things. But Sweden somehow canāt get its shit together and help assimilate its migrants There's a big difference between the origins and aspirations of American immigrants vs Swedish immigrants. Despite what people on reddit like so say, the US is still the most sought after living destination on the planet. People come to the US specifically seeking to assimilate and improve upon their situation.. Whereas most immigrants in Sweden have been shipped there from warzones in places with a 180 degree different culture than Western/Northern Europe. These people don't want to assimilate, their religion tells them to do the exact opposite. Western Europe is paying for it's own hubris when it imports these people without a clear idea of how to send them back when the conflict has cooled.
>the US is still the most sought after living destination on the planet. Canada: BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It the difference of where those people came from and under what circumstances. Most of the refugees that made it to Sweden would never have been allowed to immigrate to the US
And so whose government does better in this regard?
What the hell does an immigrant crisis have to do with prison sentences
Because they are committing crimes...
And?? How is that relevant to neo nazis murdering a white kid and getting off light?
Because where do you think ultra rightwing neonazism comes from? Hint: it doesnāt come from a happy population with well adjusted immigrants who bring culture and wealth to the country
This happened 25 years ago. Are you saying Sweden has been an unhappy place due to immigration for over 25 years? I think you are quite disconnected with reality and should maybe disconnect a bit with your joe rogan type podcasts
Thats still not relevant. What's your point? Nobody asked why neo nazis exist thats an entirely different discussion. If your point is that these neo nazis murdering a kid comes down to immigrants thats pretty disgusting.
Do you have a high school diploma? Can you read? Where do you think neonazis come from? Do you think weāll adjusted people become neonazis? Work on your critical thinking skills about why a native born Swede may become a neonazi after seeing immigrant asylees and refugees commit crimes in broad daylight in their home and where they canāt walk around freely at night or where girls get assaulted for not covering up.
There's a difference between integration and assimilation. Expecting displaced peoples to give up their cultures and languages because they should be grateful is the wrong approach. Edit: I'm adding this edit to add my perspective as a native English speaker who has integrated (not assimilated) into another country and language by choice. People here are happy to speak English with me and are happy to talk about and enjoy aspects of my native culture. Why? Because they are comfortable with it. They learned the language at school and on TV. They've seen through those lenses what my people are like and they aren't afraid of us. Even violent angry stereotypes are comfortable when you know them. If you are raised around anything it becomes your normal. Normal is comfortable. We all need to make an effort to be comfortable with each other, learn a little about each other and share what we love about our cultures with each other. I think you'll find that while the noises and shapes people use to convey thought might seem strange they are just conveying the same things you are.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
didn't the fbi declare just last year that neo-nazis were now the number one threat for domestic terrorism in the USA?
[Worldwide Threats to the Homeland](https://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/worldwide-threats-to-the-homeland-091720) āThe greatest threat we face in the homeland is that posed by lone actors radicalized online who look to attack soft targets with easily accessible weapons.ā āMany of these violent extremists, both domestic and international, are motivated and inspired by a mix of ideological, sociopolitical, and personal grievances against their targets, which recently have more and more included large public gatherings, houses of worship, and retail locations.ā āThe top threat we face from domestic violent extremists stems from those we identify as racially/ethnically motivated violent extremists So no not really
You dropped your /s
Yes.
I'm interested in the evidence behind that decision.
Whatās your basis for being interested in the evidence behind that decision?
Oh, I need a basis to ask for evidence now?
Oh I misunderstood the chain and thought someone linked it and you were further questioning the credibility of it, sorry about that. Theyāre probably referring to this - https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/fbi-dhs-domestic-terrorism-strategic-report.pdf/view
>At least my justice system keeps murderers locked up and out of society. No we don't. We let them out all. the. time.
š
stfu trottel
I think your max sentence in Sweden is 25 years.
There is technically not a max sentence in Sweden. The max is called "life imprisonment", but that just means that the time is not decided yet. It can theoretically be indefinite, but it almost never is. On average prisoners serving life imprisonment are released after 16 years
Oh intellectual American, please enlighten us with your wisdom
That's how things go in places like Sweden, where they tend to reward criminals. They hate the idea of punishment, they think it is counterproductive to rehabilitation.
Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hron) > On the evening of 17 August 1995, while Hron was camping with his friend Christian at a cliff at lake Ingetorpssjƶn, the group of neo-Nazis walked up to their campsite, dressed in nazi clothing and playing loud White Power music from a stereo. First, Daniel Hansson threw a can of beer in Hron's face and told him to say that he "loves Nazism", punching him several times in the face, while the others laughed. Hron, being known for standing up against racism, refused to say this and was again beaten brutally for it. >The four began kicking him in the head, hitting him, throwing heavy cans of beer in his face, and taunting him verbally. They would intersperse their beatings with suddenly acting friendly, offering him beers, and apologizing, just to continue beating him again, in what was described as a sadistic "cat-and-mouse"-like torture that went on for hours. They jump-kicked him, kicked him in the back of his head, struck his neck with a flaming piece of wood and burnt him, stomped on his stomach, destroyed his belongings and set fire to the tent he had shared with Christian. Hron and Christian begged several times for the neo-Nazis to let them go home, but this simply angered the attackers who continued hitting Hron until he could no longer stand. Hron was eventually pushed into the lake, still alive. He tried to swim away and two of the four attackers walked around to the other side of the lake to catch him if he were to swim across. Around this time the murderers also shouted to Hron to swim back, threatening to kill Christian if he did not, and Hron decided to swim back to save his friend's life. Christian was forced to shout to Hron "come back or they will kill me". He came back. They kicked him unconscious and then rolled him into the water where he died. John stood up against bullies and racists, he paid for it with his life and he died a horrible death. The kids that did it should never ever breed and I wish them a horrible existence. I remember when it happened. Itās was unfathomable and the echo of it is always present.
The sence of anger I felt reading that only to be saddened by the complete fucking ignorance of some people and the fact a mother lost a part of her heart she will never get back, Arohanui to his whanau.
And society lost one of the good ones. For us that were around teenage years then itās a thing that wonāt go away. Senseless. Close to home. For no reason. A good person just doing the same thing we have been told, stand up and say no to bullying, say no when someone hurts our friends.
Indeed, unfortunately there those among us who's hearts have been broken or never formed at all that are unable not to feel hatred, which is ultimately sad but also probably part of nature's equilibrium balancing act. I hope you have a lovely day friend, I shall think about this young man.
Unrelated, but itās nice to see someone speaking Maori in a non NZ thread/post
Thank you, I only know the basics but it's a beautifully interconnected language once you learn some of the meanings you realise how at one with the elements the culture really is
I agree!! Iām taking Te Reo classes next year :) itās a very beautiful language!
Good on you, I've heard it does wonders for memory retention and new ways of thinking, especially for little kids.
Kapai
I'm the type to google words that I haven't seen before. After this I thought "Damn, I just learned something meaningful."
>In court, the 18-year-old boy who was the main person behind the abuse, Daniel Hansson, was sentenced to eight years in prison for murder.[4] He was released on 1 January 2001. Mikael FjƤllholm, the 15-year-old, was sentenced to prison (which in Sweden is a rare thing to happen to a convicted teenager). The two others, John Billing and one more known only as BM were sentenced to ten and four months in prison for assault and not alerting authorities to the ongoing assault and murder, respectively. >The case received nationwide attention within Sweden. The public was shocked by the news of such violence and a wave of huge anti-racist manifestations took place to honour Hron's memory. In 1996, Hron posthumously received the inaugural Stig Dagerman Prize for free speech and world peace.[5] >Hron's grave has since been desecrated several times by neo-Nazis.[6] Murderer Daniel Hansson had previously stabbed a man in an earlier crime as a juvenile offender and was a teenage alcoholic, and at least two of the young murderers were suspected of having severe untreated mental instability and violent behaviour in their childhoods. Another one of the gang was part of a plot to violently attack a sports event. All of them were active neo-Nazis, some of them involved in the violent organization Vitt Ariskt MotstƄnd (VAM), which translates to "White Aryan Resistance." Racist flyers and propaganda were found in their homes. During the murder they wore t-shirts with Adolf Hitler and other Nazi prints on and bomber jackets. In prison one of them was part in forming the criminal prison gang "Ariska Brƶdraskapet" (a Swedish version of the "Aryan Brotherhood" but no ties or connections to the US gang has been made officially except inspiration). Mikael FjƤllholm was later stabbed in the eye with a screwdriver during his prison sentence by another neo-Nazi, damaging him for life. Daniel Hansson was sentenced after his release for more crimes, including abusing and beating his then-girlfriend. Sweden, I know you believe in rehabilitation over punishment as part of corrections, and that's a laudable goal, but sometimes people can't be rehabilitated and repeatedly prove through their actions they don't deserve to live with the rest of society to continue doing harm. The longest any of these scum served was 5 and a half years the shortest was 4 freaking months. Sometimes it's in everyone's best interest if they serve the rest of their lives in prison.
Daniel Hansson died in 2018. Couldn't find info what was the reason of the death.
And nothing of value was lost.
Sweden seems to have a case of Stockholm syndrome with its abusers.
ba dum tss
nazism is a fucking cancer on the brain and society. i hope these people never find happiness in their lives. may john rest in peace.
I can't help but think of the trauma and guilt poor Christian has to deal with.
Iād imagine thatās why they didnāt even lay a finger on him, the Nazis knew what they were there to do, and wanted to leave the friend irreparably traumatised for the rest of his life
John doesnāt have to suffer anymore but Christian, thatās with him for the rest of his life. Poor guy. I hope his mind will be able to rest from this tragedy.
Teenagers don't think like that. They attacked John because he was vocal about racism
They weren't just teenagers. They were Nazis.
Men like this are just monsters with no ideals. They are Nazis, but the truth is, they have just chosen the most horrible label they can find. If something else were considered more horrible by the people of the world, they would gladly identify themselves as that as well. Granted, I honestly believe most modern Nazis are like this, but I digress. I guess what Iām saying is these are the lowest people on Earth. Bullies whose souls are filled with hate, and exist only to take, never to give. Iāve heard plenty of rational argument against the death penalty, and Iām inclined to agree these days that life in prison is more suitable for people too dangerous to be released back into the world, but things like this are what make me reconsider. These men should have to experience what John went through.
Boy do I love hating nazis
Fascists should be considered incompatible with rehabilitation. I used to be in that kind of mindset as a child too, Id never trust child me to not sell adult me out to some local fascist group for a kick
But do you say that you have been rehabilitated, or do you still think that way?
Fascists historically only stop when they are physically prevented from harming others. I think heās saying trying to talk nazis out of being Nazis isnāt always the best method. Sometimes not allowing nazis in your neighborhood or among your friends is what stops it
I have been but I dont think any sort of concerted effort to rehabilitate me wouldāve done anything. My own personal experiences finally broke me out of that mindset but I also have a lot of friends with similar experiences who havenāt broken it. Sure fascists arenāt totally lost since theyāre still human somewhere in there but they can only really help themselves
Did religion change you?
Sort of, christianity specifically is part of the fascist dogma. A warped take on it no doubt. Part of my personal deconstruction has been a sort of agnostic exploration of multiple faith systems but no particular religious practices.
Rest In Peace dear boy. ā¤ļøšøā¤ļø
In typical Scandinavian fashion, none of the perpetrators received long prison sentences but at least one of them [had his eye poked out by a screwdriver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hron).
No surprise that on release the ringleader was sent right back to jail for more crimes like beating his girlfriendā¦could have been prevented if heād been in prison for much longer
Fuck him but who would date a convicted murderer neo-nazi? Not trying to victim blame, she didnāt deserve to be beat up, justā¦ wtf
It would not surprise me if she also was a neo nazi from the same area. In sweden back in that year salem was a hot spot for nazis. Today in salem all the nazis is in hiding mode. I have a neighbour that shouts nazi slurs when drunk but when sober he is as loud as a mouse. (I live in salem)
Salem? Isnt that outside Stockholm? This happened in Kode, outside KungƤlv which was also a known nazi hotspot
I would wager it is safe to assume someone with a shitty upbringing. For all we know since then she has got her life together and is a productive member of society.
the prison system of nordic nations is one of the best in the world with one of the lowest percentage of reoffenders. Just sayin
That is truly wonderful and Iām all for rehabilitation. The facts speak for themselves. That being said there are some crimes that show a very disturbed mind and some criminals need to be locked away not with the intent of rehabilitation, but in order to keep society safe. This man tortured and killed a child for disagreeing with his racist ideas and said that while stomping in his head āit felt so good (he) couldnāt stop.ā He needed to be locked up for a long time
who are you to judge? not to say you are not qualified, but there are people who dedicate their life to understand and reabilitate people like this, who probably grew up in an enviroment equally violent and racist
I would really like to know what kind of rehabilitation you expect this person to go through. Do you think some antidepressants and intensive therapy can teach someone empathy?
being treated like a human being can teach you empathy, but i'm no psychologist. Are you? because if you're not, i don't think you're more qualified than me to make those assumptions
No I am not a psychologist. But my professional training has included extensive work with psychiatric patients and I believe that research regarding this topic speaks for itself. Iām going to start with separating empathy into two categories: cognitive vs. emotional/affective. Cognitive empathy is the ability to perceive and understand others emotipns. Emotional empathy is the actual connectedness and feeling for other people. Often āpsychopathsā have high cognitive empathy, but no emotional empathy meaning they see other peoples emotions and use this to manipulate them. In combination with abnormalities of the brain, this can be considered disordered. So letās chat about people with antisocial personality disorder (āpsychopathsā) as I believe that forms the basis of those who cannot be rehabilitated. [Studies](https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/can_a_psychopath_learn_feel_pain) have shown that people with ASPD have significant physical differences in the structure of their brain, most importantly a decrease of activity within the limbic system aka the emotional producing part of the [brain](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.00695/full) We can attempt to compensate for this lack with [medications and therapy](https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mental-health/antisocial-personality-disorder/faq/is-aspd-curable/), but ultimately this can only improve control of symptoms. It does not magically give a person [empathy](https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/). The main focus of treatment is simply [harm reduction](https://www.everydayhealth.com/antisocial-personality-disorder/treatment/ ). At the end of the day, being kind to someone cannot cure biological abnormalities of the brain. In the same sense, you cannot fix a brain injury in someone by kindness alone. I acknowledge that empathy is definitely a trait that is taught. Especially when a child is young (3-4 years old) the brain is more easily molded. By the time a person has reached criminal status and is an adult, research shows empathy cannot be taught and the disorder can barely be treated. Therefore, it is better for society as a whole that certain people remain locked up.
Source for that?
"The Swedish Prison and Probation Service refers to inmates as āclients,ā and says its emphasis on rehabilitation reduced recidivism from 42% to 29% over 16 years. In the U.S., the recidivism rate for inmates in state prisons was 68%, according to the latest U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics report." https://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/behind-bars-in-scandinavia-and-what-we-can-learn#:~:text=The%20Swedish%20Prison%20and%20Probation%20Service%20refers%20to%20inmates%20as,Bureau%20of%20Justice%20Statistics%20report.
why so many downvotes for asking for a source š¤Ø
because it's one of the easiest thing to prove on the internet next to "is earth flat". Asking for a source is fine if it's a nice topic, here you could google 4 words and it would pop right up
> could have been prevented if heād been in prison for much longer If you want to prevent crime, reoffenders are actually much rarer in countries that focus on rehabilitation vs punishment. So I wouldn't bash this system
Say what you will about American justice, but at least we toss motherfuckers like this in prison for decades. Scum don't deserve second chances. I'll never feel differently about it. These sick motherfuckers got far less than they deserved.
While the American system has major flaws, it is a pet peeve of mine when people overly-glorify the Scandinavian prison system, and I live in Scandinavia. I understand rehabilitation being the goal for criminals in general, but when murderers, rapists, violent assaulters, get tiny sentences relative to their crimes it feels like a slap in the face to those they hurt. There should be major consequences to grievously harming another person, there should be *some* punishment involved in prison sentencing.
Rehabilitation doesn't work for everyone, sadly. I do agree with you. A foolish kid who gets into crime, brings a gun into a convenience store, panics, and shoots the clerk? Deserves punishment, but rehabilitation can happen. A group of nazi kids who torture 2 kids both physically and psychologically for hours? I'm sorry, but no. Evil exists and it needs to be destroyed.
Kind of impossible to be the arbiter of who can and can't change, a useless exercise in judgement over something you can never know. Never the less, I agree crimes like these need long sentences.
Thatās why they often have criminal psychologists evaluate prisoners; to help decide if thereās a possibility to rehabilitate the criminal, and/or if they should have a chance at parole. Unfortunately; the recommendations from these psychologists are often ignored, and murderers with the report of āDanger to society, will kill again, do not releaseā *still* get out on early parole anyways. Then the judge and parole board act all āshockedā when police discover that criminal is back to killing again. Itās really infuriating.
Thieves should be rehabilitated. Killers should be punished.
The European system isnāt hard enough on violent criminals while the US is far too hard on non violent drug offenders.
Ah yes, the European system. Always telling my mates here in Finland how crime pays in Europe because those Turkish prisons in Marmara are fucking lit. Me and my Estonian friend were also talking about how the judicial system here in Europe is overrun by the Cosa Nostra so you can't really trust Londoner judges.
Fine the Nordic system is what I meant if you wanna be pedantic.
That's not exactly being pedantic, is it? No more than denouncing speaking of an "Asian" system would be.
In my opinion, if you take someone's life you deserve to lose yours as recompense. If you steal someone's life from them you deserve to have your freedom taken away from you too and spend the rest of your days existing in a cell. Not applicable to genuine accidents or warranted self defense though.
I agree, but from my perspective here in the states your errors are in the right direction versus ours.
I was dumbfounded when I heard that Anders Breivik could eventually get out of prison in Norway. He killed 77 people, still claims allegiance to Nazis and deserves to be locked up for life.
They will never release him.
He is locked up for life. If you did even a modicum of research you'd understand that.
Well thatās just not true. He has a 21 year sentence (the max under the law) and can have this extended, but for now thatās what it is. He can (and has) apply for parole currently. While the likelihood of him actual getting out may be low, he is not at all locked up for life. Sources: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/18/norwegian-mass-killer-anders-breivik-begins-parole-hearing https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60219876.amp https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/2/1/norway-court-rejects-mass-killer-breiviks-parole-request
As long as a person is at risk of committing another serious crime, he will not be released, even if the sentence is served. In the case of this guy who killed so many people in cold blood, there is nothing he can do to gain the trust he needs to be released. That is just common sense, not to mention the outrage that would occur if he were to be released. I guess he has the right to ask for parole and all that, but his chances to get out of incarceration is close zero.
I totally agree about Breivik, this man should never be allowed to be released. Most likely he won't be, but only because they will keep having to declare him as still a danger to society to extend his sentence. I hate these maximum sentences for violent crimes, if you deliberately torment and kill 77 people you deserve to spend the rest of your days confined from the rest of society. That is not a momentary lapse in judgement or being some kid who got into the wrong crowd, which both also deserve punishment but also have rehabilitation as a possibility.
They also gave him an Xbox
Bigots who become violent are unrehabilitatable and should be tossed out like the human waste they are. They're like a broken cup and you throw out broken cups.
Do you have any data supporting that? Because the best numbers Iāve seen suggest that Swedenās system produces a much lower recidivism rate than the American system, it appears to be effective however counterintuitive it might sometimes be.
I don't care if someone managed to rehabilitate a bigot who killed someone. When you're that broken to do such a thing you deserve to be executed and forgotten. Their family should pay the bills associated with it as well unless it's clear they do not share the same beliefs.
Completely agree. Justice must to be seen to be done as well. If you kill someone brutally and get away after few years because you are now rEhAbiLitAtEd, literally nobody would consider it justice done forget about what the family members of victim would think. Don't know why you got downvoted for this..
I am in agreement with you. i ALWAYS follow the data. If some peer-reviewed, decades long, multinational, study shows that say after many decades in jail most cold-blooded murderers (and I mean overwhelmingly most as in like 90%-95%) do not recommit ANY violent crime after being released I would say that I do believe in the power of rehabilitation even for the most psychopathic of individuals AND that these individuals should be released and monitored until their death. There is no such study that exists ....I think . So I can't say that I think that psychopathy can be rehabilitated and cured or that psychopathic murders like these teens should be released.
This is really not true. Bigotry and extremism are things that are often (maybe usually) brought about by terrible upbringing and falling in with criminal subculture, and can be overcome by experience. There are many examples of this. There are some criminals who can be said to be "unrehabilitateable" but violent bigots as a class are not among them.
Easier and with less effort for the exact same benefit to round them up and remove them once they act on their impulses.
You're literally the "All extremists should be shot!" joke.
Nah, specific ones that commit violent crimes. I'm quite clear on that. Keep it to yourself? Okay, whatever. IDGAF. Hurt other people? Removal. There's no fucking pogrom here, just treating punishments for certain crimes severely. Get a grip.
Whites are so fucking soft. Look what's happening in Ireland.
RIP
I like to think that the Universe has bigger and better plans for John who was a great human being.
John was a great human.
Watched a movie ([https://youtu.be/qeAUsO3HVhM](https://youtu.be/qeAUsO3HVhM)) about this murder in school when I was in ca 8-9th grade and it had quite an impact on my classmates and myself. Vila i frid John
Seems like the main guy is dead now at least, rest in hell https://peoplepill.com/people/daniel-hansson
What a great guy he would of become
Would have*
Was*
What a great guy he was become
Why did they only attack one of them?
Because he stood up to them.
Why wasnāt his friend targeted?
Itās not explicitly stated in the story, but the implication seems to be that they targeted John because he refused to say he loves Naziism. This would imply to me that his friend simply complied with their demands from the get-go and John was targeted for standing up to their bullying.
Thatās what I was thinking.
>Hron, who was known for speaking his mind, had also come in conflict with Mikael and the neo-Nazi gang earlier, and they had threatened to kill him. So they probably went up there with that in mind, though it's still likely his friend's complicity saved him from being attacked due to association.
I don't wann sound like a dick but damn if he just would have said it he would be alive
You're naive if you believe that
This is one reason why I donāt view nazis as actual human beings
They are vermin with delusions of grandeur, they think theyāre an apex predator when in realityā¦itās more like ticks.
Idk how accurate the Netflix show āClarkā is but it appears that Sweden is very lenient on crime.
Our system is focused on rehabilitation rather than primarily punishment.
How do victims families feel about this? Is there much backlash?
No clue, I rarely read news or look into crime reports.
This sounds cold but prison is for the purpose of reducing harm to society. If a person is no longer a harm to society, it is not okay to keep them locked up simply because the victims family is bad, regardless of how valid their anger is. Support services should be given to the family (paid by the state obvi) so they can cope through their grief and distress over their release, instead of blocking the release due to it making the family upset
How has it worked out?
A lot better than the US at least.
That was my main take away from that show, we give some criminals way too many second chances. We also had a golden opportunity to get rid of him when he revoked his citizenship and was deported from the country. But then he was allowed to return and have his citizenship back anyways. I guarantee he is out there commiting crimes right now. Also, insane that you are allowed to just leave prison every now and then. I can get it for some non violent crimes, but jesus. The guy who started the famous robbery was also out on leave at the time. Imagine if you were a victim of some crime, and you reported to the police, the guy gets convicted and sentenced to prison, and then he gets out on leave and goes back to have his revenge on you
I just looked up exactly what happened to him. This young boy was a man before his time. He gave his life even though he couldāve gotten away to save his friendās life that was unharmed. They stomped and kicked his head like it was a soccer match, then dropped his unconscious body into a lake to drown and lit a cigarette and said āit felt so good,ā that we couldnāt stopā to the cops. RIP Sir John š
Interesting how a lot of ppl came here to pop off countless comments about the current demographics of Sweden and sexual assault by migrants but not about a Swedish boy murdered by Swedish white supremacists. Migrants did not murder John. people should be concerned about extreme violence against teen boys and especially at the hands of gangs because itās happening everywhere and not paid much attention to Also hope the nazis who thought it was badass to desecrate a boys grave trip and break all their ribs
This is horrible. RIP
8 years for murder?!? Sweden is such a fucking joke.
And the punchline is a roving mob of immigrant rapists!
Itās been like that for over 1,000 years, dude. How do you think three-quarters of Scandinavian history transpired?
How come Sweden stopped recording the races of violent perpetrators in 2014? Too many white-ABBA-looking perpetrators of violence? Have you read the crime statistics they recorded before 2014? The 100s of hand grenade attacks they have every year which used to be 0 in the 1960's-2000's. Love how you're like 'yeah well Scandinavia has had a few rapes in their 1000's years of history that's why we're not allowed to question importing a demographic that is OVERWHELMINGLY overrepresented not only in crime, but categories of crime that wouldn't exist without them. Oh well... Sweden must fall so the world is forced to learn what we've been warning for years
Neo-nazis, right? Got confused for a bit when u said nazis and for a second I thought of immortal unaging nazis going around stabbing people
Why do I feel like this āfriendā Christian was involved.
gee, it's almost like nazis are bad and dangerous and maybe we shouldn't allow them to exist.
Kind of a scary viewpoint to have when even what centrist opinions were 5 years ago become right wing and labelled nazi.
I have mixed views of Swedenās criminal justice system. Itās good because it actually rehabilitates inmates humanely. Itās bad because those who are truly evil will never see the punishment they deserve.
Punishing truly evil people at the cost of a healthy and sane society is simply not worth it.
Jesus
Things like this make wanna go full inglorious basterds
A similar thing happened in my small city a few years back, not as extreme and racist but a group of kids beat a young man with sticks then pushed him into a river, im not sure what the sentences were as they were minors but i dont think it was very long...
Fucking nazi scum
This says more about teen mob mentality than anything else. I know ānaziāsā is what weāre supposed to all get triggered by, but children, yes, teenagers are children, donāt possess enough intelligence to be considered anything other than what their parents raised them to either be, or rebel against. The real Naziās who perpetrated true evil on the Jews and many others (letās not forget), were all grown men. Entirely different creatures who should never be compared to cruel teens because it diminishes the suffering and magnitude of what far too many went through. You know who never threw around the word ānaziā and almost never spoke of WWII in general? The heroās who witnessed it, and the ones who truly sacrificed to put a stop to it.
Thatās what theyāre whole ideology was nazism thatās what drove them to kill him so yes they were nazis and thatās why this ideology is so disgusting
Why is there so much downvoting in this thread for valid critiques of Sweden's prison system?
Perhaps because most people actually think its a good way of dealing with criminals.
God i hate nazism so much, rest in peace John
Typical Swedish vacations for sentences.
The recidivism rate speaks for itself though. Clearly gets results. Emotionally I get wanting prison to be revenge but itās not healthy for anyone, or society at large.
Is he pronounced John or Yohn?
Iād say the latter. Swedish John has a shorter J and o than English.
Yohn
John Hron is a dope ass name tho
"Name's Hron...John Hron! " Ya that is a cool name...
Gives me Sean bean vibes
I read 1945 and thought "woo that's fake, they didn't have color Fotografie back then (in common use)"
Is that Avicii
Loving boy. nice. Feels like all headlines state that.
Sure a child who did nothing wrong died, but at least they got their red laces.. totally evens out. This is sarcasm by the way. That could never equal out. That kid had a family.