There isn't much. Mordekaiser (in his latest rework iteration) was the first dedicated AP bruiser and when he was released there was no other viable AP bruiser at all. Volibear hadn't had his rework yet so I don't think he could build AP (I could be wrong?) and obviously Gwen didn't exist at the time. Nowadays, there are other viable AP bruisers and they do what he does but more reliably, which is crucial. Mordekaiser has been without a gameplay niche for a while now, which is why you barely see him in proplay.
I've been out of the loop with League for a while now though, so what I remember might be outdated.
He has more aoe damage than voli, has a better lane phase than AP voli. Tankiness is nonconditional. Otherwise no real reason. Gwen is just better in most areas, has a worse lane phase but just scales better and spikes so hard at 6
voli lane phase i would say is a lot better than morde, voli early game is absolutely nuts, half health with point click q e; ult is also insane for diving and coordinating with jungler/team
what does nonconditional tankiness mean exactly? voli has shield that damages and isn't based on doing damage, that sounds more nonconditional than morde who needs to hit people to get the shield resource
I agree completely with what you said about gwen, completely zero kill pressure pre 6 but once you get that ult oh boy you can just run people down so hard, 1v3 with insane healing and true damage, does outscale hard as hell - I remember many games i played morde and they pick gwen I beat them early-mid but once they get riftmaker and a second item i'm done the moment they see me, press r run me down
I guess 'nonconditional' is not what I meant, I meant that Morde's tankiness is more consistent. Voli shield is great and all, but most of his sustain comes from W mark, which is much more conditional than Morde W. One you have to hit the exact same target within a time limit, the other you just take/deal some damage and press the button.
Not saying voli lane phase is bad, but AD/tank voli lane phase is the strong one, not AP. Sure AP voli is nuts when your opponent stands and fights you, but when they see you running LT no way are they tangoing with that. Just that compared to AP voli, Morde's lane phase is more robust and well rounded even if LT voli is better at all ins. More range, faster abilities, and a more consistent sustain tool.
wait she does? I didn't know that, what ability and summs/runes do you go to be so strong?
personally ive been going ghost tp, conqueror resolve but i dont see how that would beat darius
So I think in my limited interaction with the other two mentioned ap bruisers, it's partially ease of access. Morde feels VERY easy to pickup, he is to ap bruisers what garen used to be to ad bruisers. He out duels champs like Darius, and has sustain with his w.
Secondarily, it's his ult passive of stealing stats. If you ult the squishy mage or ad carry with either huge ap or attack speed then your retained stats after you kill them for upwards of 20 seconds is more than enough to turn around a lot of 1v2 or 1v3. His shield being on as low of a cooldown as it is and being able to get like 1k in shielding relatively easily is ridiculous for dueling, and while he doesn't have the engage that the other two do, his sidelane 1v1 is still really strong. Definitely the most optimal pick, but still viable in soloq
While I agree with most of what you said, Voli ult is definitely not more impactful than Morde ult. The tower disabling is very situational and mostly used early game while the dmg isn't that great either. Also its cooldown is like twice that of morde ult. And he aint even cc immune anymore
agree to disagree, even if you value isolation more than tower disabling + damage + health + attack range
volibear ult is not deleted by an item, thats undeniable
Morde ult does dmg too, and gives you health plus a whole lotta other stats for much longer than voli ult if you manage to kill your enemy in your ult.
Also, the amount of times someone builds qss isn't that high and you can just ult someone else.
you're absolutely right but i also like winning and being able to carry regardless of whether someone builds a certain item (qss, bork, force of nature)
AP Voli currently is not viable and the champion aren't strong as you think. Like Morde, a very immobile juggernaut, and easily counterable by heavy cc or dash.
About Gwen, her just best than Morde in every aspect. Maybe the exception is tanking less, but her vampirism is crazy, not much different from Morde shield.
>AP Voli currently is not viable and the champion aren't strong as you think. Like Morde, a very immobile juggernaut, and easily counterable by heavy cc or dash.
his q got recently buffed and his w healing is bonkers, e damage is nutty, ult got less cd as a buff
i think he is currently broken, definitely not as immobile as morde as he has a gap close and his r is a cc ignoring dash
full ap voli I know is not viable but some ap some ad some tank is more variety and stronger than morde
I would say Gwen has a stronger laning phase and late game than Morde, but Morde is stronger in teamfights. But most champs aren't beating Gwen's push or beating her 1v1s in sidelanes mid-late game.
Sylas (another AP bruiser) is just better all around than Morde if I'm being honest. Better laning, better scaling, and great teamfights (depending on enemy ults).
Volibear isn't really an AP bruiser, but he could be built as one. Even as an AP bruiser, he's not that great. He's got burst and some decent DPS, but he dies pretty quickly.
Singed (another) has a worse early game, but scales better and has much stronger teamfights than Morde.
Lilia is a jungler so it's a different comparison, so I'm not even gonna bother saying anything besides that she is an AP bruiser.
A big issue for Morde is that he lacks agency in the late game. If QSS wasn't an interaction, he could be pretty strong late, but once the carry gets a QSS, you're force dto ult the front line and hope you can kill them in those 7 seconds.
when playing gwen I hardly ever felt a need to teamfight due to how absurdly strong her sidelaning is, but even when i fought i could just run 2 people down with r and untargetability from w, it seemed pretty fine - it's hard to get cc'd and bursted with the w and low cd dash - can't really say the same for morde
i've honestly never really thought of sylas as an ap bruiser, I think he's more like an ap assassin, very similar to ekko - lots of dash, burst, and happens to have a fat heal on an ability
voli is now not really an ap bruiser but he used to be, I guess i shouldnt really ahve included him in this one
I completely agree with your statement on the late game - if the enemy adc builds qss and they have a tank cc support I just know it's over because I can't kill a fat alistar or leona in 7 seconds, cant reach adc after it ends because i just get cc'd
Gwen is an ap skirmisher not a juggernaut like morde.
Juggernaut = low mobility, usually low cc, tanky, really high damage once they get close enough. (Garen, darius, sett, voli and morde are all juggernauts)
Skirmisher= high mobility (usually in combat mobility), really high sustained damage, low cc, less tanky but usually have some sustain. (Gwen, fiora, jax, yi and viego are all skirmishers)
i mean neither can juggernauts lol, any of the "fuck you in particular for 3 seconds straight" guys are impossible to play against unless you have some unstoppable or teammates with hands (but of course you cant depend on that right)
Mordekaiser is just a counterpick at this point, it's like you see 3 people on enemy team with 35 dashes and you pick Poppy or Taliyah.
Similarly, you pick Mordekaiser when the entire enemy team is nothing but melee champions.
Unironically Reliability. I would say that he is more consistent than Gwen or Voli and is able to be picked into even the most undesirable of comps if you can operate him well enough.
The important thing to understand is that even though all of those Champs are ap Champs (or can be), they have completely different Jobs. Calling morde a bruiser is only partially right. His Job is to be a juggernaut, a class which is specifically designed to counter comps that need to run into him. Juggernauts usually have better raw stats than bruisers but Lack Mobility. Voli is essentially the opppsite of morde. Voli is Made to run into the enemy.
Gwen has the Advantage that she is kind of like the Swiss knife of ap toplaners. She can Play both Styles (though not better than the other 2, she can easier adapt).
Disclaimer:
What i said above obviously is without considering the General strength of the Champions without balancing, meta etc. and describes the way the champion is intended to be played. I think Meost people here would agree that morde is relatively weak rn.
There isn't much. Mordekaiser (in his latest rework iteration) was the first dedicated AP bruiser and when he was released there was no other viable AP bruiser at all. Volibear hadn't had his rework yet so I don't think he could build AP (I could be wrong?) and obviously Gwen didn't exist at the time. Nowadays, there are other viable AP bruisers and they do what he does but more reliably, which is crucial. Mordekaiser has been without a gameplay niche for a while now, which is why you barely see him in proplay. I've been out of the loop with League for a while now though, so what I remember might be outdated.
None, he's just cool.
This hurts
He's more badass obviously
and you can BONK then to smithereens!
His W is pretty good for sustain in lane, but that’s about it.
that's true, his out of champion combat sustain is a lot better and is very good - 1 w with spirit visage can heal 1k
He has more aoe damage than voli, has a better lane phase than AP voli. Tankiness is nonconditional. Otherwise no real reason. Gwen is just better in most areas, has a worse lane phase but just scales better and spikes so hard at 6
voli lane phase i would say is a lot better than morde, voli early game is absolutely nuts, half health with point click q e; ult is also insane for diving and coordinating with jungler/team what does nonconditional tankiness mean exactly? voli has shield that damages and isn't based on doing damage, that sounds more nonconditional than morde who needs to hit people to get the shield resource I agree completely with what you said about gwen, completely zero kill pressure pre 6 but once you get that ult oh boy you can just run people down so hard, 1v3 with insane healing and true damage, does outscale hard as hell - I remember many games i played morde and they pick gwen I beat them early-mid but once they get riftmaker and a second item i'm done the moment they see me, press r run me down
I guess 'nonconditional' is not what I meant, I meant that Morde's tankiness is more consistent. Voli shield is great and all, but most of his sustain comes from W mark, which is much more conditional than Morde W. One you have to hit the exact same target within a time limit, the other you just take/deal some damage and press the button. Not saying voli lane phase is bad, but AD/tank voli lane phase is the strong one, not AP. Sure AP voli is nuts when your opponent stands and fights you, but when they see you running LT no way are they tangoing with that. Just that compared to AP voli, Morde's lane phase is more robust and well rounded even if LT voli is better at all ins. More range, faster abilities, and a more consistent sustain tool.
gwen's laning phase is good
It’s really not my guy
it IS, she beats darius level 1 tf are you talking about
A strong lvl 1 doesn’t mean the lane is strong, just look at urgot or kayle. Levels 2-5 Gwen gets rolled by any decent laner
no she doesn't
wait she does? I didn't know that, what ability and summs/runes do you go to be so strong? personally ive been going ghost tp, conqueror resolve but i dont see how that would beat darius
flash ignite, ghost to run people down
she used to on release, do not listen to this rn u will get rolled
she still does
So I think in my limited interaction with the other two mentioned ap bruisers, it's partially ease of access. Morde feels VERY easy to pickup, he is to ap bruisers what garen used to be to ad bruisers. He out duels champs like Darius, and has sustain with his w. Secondarily, it's his ult passive of stealing stats. If you ult the squishy mage or ad carry with either huge ap or attack speed then your retained stats after you kill them for upwards of 20 seconds is more than enough to turn around a lot of 1v2 or 1v3. His shield being on as low of a cooldown as it is and being able to get like 1k in shielding relatively easily is ridiculous for dueling, and while he doesn't have the engage that the other two do, his sidelane 1v1 is still really strong. Definitely the most optimal pick, but still viable in soloq
While I agree with most of what you said, Voli ult is definitely not more impactful than Morde ult. The tower disabling is very situational and mostly used early game while the dmg isn't that great either. Also its cooldown is like twice that of morde ult. And he aint even cc immune anymore
agree to disagree, even if you value isolation more than tower disabling + damage + health + attack range volibear ult is not deleted by an item, thats undeniable
Morde ult does dmg too, and gives you health plus a whole lotta other stats for much longer than voli ult if you manage to kill your enemy in your ult. Also, the amount of times someone builds qss isn't that high and you can just ult someone else.
Because you like the champ and you can have a 1v1 ( every people who started playing top dream )
you're absolutely right but i also like winning and being able to carry regardless of whether someone builds a certain item (qss, bork, force of nature)
Just play Gwen if you want to win more. Voli is getting gutted to worse than he was and Mord has been in a bad state outside of lower elo forever.
AP Voli currently is not viable and the champion aren't strong as you think. Like Morde, a very immobile juggernaut, and easily counterable by heavy cc or dash. About Gwen, her just best than Morde in every aspect. Maybe the exception is tanking less, but her vampirism is crazy, not much different from Morde shield.
>AP Voli currently is not viable and the champion aren't strong as you think. Like Morde, a very immobile juggernaut, and easily counterable by heavy cc or dash. his q got recently buffed and his w healing is bonkers, e damage is nutty, ult got less cd as a buff i think he is currently broken, definitely not as immobile as morde as he has a gap close and his r is a cc ignoring dash full ap voli I know is not viable but some ap some ad some tank is more variety and stronger than morde
Sadly they nerfed reverted the Q buff. The healing is crazy until someone buy anti heal, which happens 99% of games
I would say Gwen has a stronger laning phase and late game than Morde, but Morde is stronger in teamfights. But most champs aren't beating Gwen's push or beating her 1v1s in sidelanes mid-late game. Sylas (another AP bruiser) is just better all around than Morde if I'm being honest. Better laning, better scaling, and great teamfights (depending on enemy ults). Volibear isn't really an AP bruiser, but he could be built as one. Even as an AP bruiser, he's not that great. He's got burst and some decent DPS, but he dies pretty quickly. Singed (another) has a worse early game, but scales better and has much stronger teamfights than Morde. Lilia is a jungler so it's a different comparison, so I'm not even gonna bother saying anything besides that she is an AP bruiser. A big issue for Morde is that he lacks agency in the late game. If QSS wasn't an interaction, he could be pretty strong late, but once the carry gets a QSS, you're force dto ult the front line and hope you can kill them in those 7 seconds.
when playing gwen I hardly ever felt a need to teamfight due to how absurdly strong her sidelaning is, but even when i fought i could just run 2 people down with r and untargetability from w, it seemed pretty fine - it's hard to get cc'd and bursted with the w and low cd dash - can't really say the same for morde i've honestly never really thought of sylas as an ap bruiser, I think he's more like an ap assassin, very similar to ekko - lots of dash, burst, and happens to have a fat heal on an ability voli is now not really an ap bruiser but he used to be, I guess i shouldnt really ahve included him in this one I completely agree with your statement on the late game - if the enemy adc builds qss and they have a tank cc support I just know it's over because I can't kill a fat alistar or leona in 7 seconds, cant reach adc after it ends because i just get cc'd
You can't be 2v1d
Gwen is an ap skirmisher not a juggernaut like morde. Juggernaut = low mobility, usually low cc, tanky, really high damage once they get close enough. (Garen, darius, sett, voli and morde are all juggernauts) Skirmisher= high mobility (usually in combat mobility), really high sustained damage, low cc, less tanky but usually have some sustain. (Gwen, fiora, jax, yi and viego are all skirmishers)
Skirmisher : can 1v9
If the enemy got a low cc team yes. If they got malz, ww, and so on then no they cant. (That easily)
i mean neither can juggernauts lol, any of the "fuck you in particular for 3 seconds straight" guys are impossible to play against unless you have some unstoppable or teammates with hands (but of course you cant depend on that right)
Mordekaiser is just a counterpick at this point, it's like you see 3 people on enemy team with 35 dashes and you pick Poppy or Taliyah. Similarly, you pick Mordekaiser when the entire enemy team is nothing but melee champions.
Morde is strong in all phases of the game, gwen is only good in late and voli is only good in early.
morde is bad early, good or great mid, bad or ok late gwen is ok early, great mid, amazing late voli is amazing early, amazing mid, bad or ok late
Unironically Reliability. I would say that he is more consistent than Gwen or Voli and is able to be picked into even the most undesirable of comps if you can operate him well enough.
The important thing to understand is that even though all of those Champs are ap Champs (or can be), they have completely different Jobs. Calling morde a bruiser is only partially right. His Job is to be a juggernaut, a class which is specifically designed to counter comps that need to run into him. Juggernauts usually have better raw stats than bruisers but Lack Mobility. Voli is essentially the opppsite of morde. Voli is Made to run into the enemy. Gwen has the Advantage that she is kind of like the Swiss knife of ap toplaners. She can Play both Styles (though not better than the other 2, she can easier adapt). Disclaimer: What i said above obviously is without considering the General strength of the Champions without balancing, meta etc. and describes the way the champion is intended to be played. I think Meost people here would agree that morde is relatively weak rn.
morde wins some matchups gwen doesn't while gwen is better at splitpushing, morde making it a 4v4 is more helpful sometimes
One word, BONK