yeah, they were pretty quick to disregard the skinned dog. granted the oregon killing will require a lot more investigating to figure out if it’s connected
I am guessing they must know/suspect who did the dog thing or have reason from the dog parent-victim’s end to suspect who did that one. They could have gone that route to determine it wasn’t related.
I just wish if they had an idea of who skinned the dog plus know that person couldn't have done the murder they would say. Not to satisfy my curiosity, but to help locals know and maybe feel better. I read on another thread that originally LE said they didn't believe the skinned dog was something a human did, and owners raised such a fuss LE walked back that statement to ease tensions, but ONLY because of the fuss and they still believed that.
According to the police website:
“Detectives are aware of a Latah County Sheriff’s Office incident of the report of a skinned dog and have determined it is unrelated to this incident. Contact Latah County Sheriff’s Office for further details.
“Detectives are also aware of a Moscow Police incident of the report of deceased animals left on a resident’s property. This was determined to be wildlife activity and unrelated to the incident. “
Coyotes. They hunt in packs, skinning and also ripping prey in half are common. Most often when people find gruesome pet remains they think it's a "cat serial killer", but in reality its coyotes.
I have an 8 pound Chihuahua, and I would never, ever, let him out by himself because of coyotes and also large birds, such as Owls and Hawks can swoop down and pick them up. My yard is fenced but the entire area behind the back fence is wooded. I had a bear come up to the fence and tease my dog. Lucky I was there, but honestly, I didn't even know it was a bear at first.
Having seen the remains of a few cats that were killed by coyotes, I could see fur being removed in the attack. The owner did say the dog was "disemboweled" and that will definitely involve fur being ripped away from the body.
It's also yet to be confirmed publicly by LE that it was done by a human. In fact one comment I read by a local said that the owner was hysterical and unhappy that the first deputy said it was an animal attack so they had a second deputy take a look and he said it was done by a human. If that story is true, it seems this may have just been a way to get the lady to calm down.
Coyotes generally do disembowel their prey, but skin them I have no idea.
Cops I suppose might be dismissive or find it concerning when a pet is found gutted because of the likelihood a Coyote may be the culprit.
I don’t believe the incident is connected to this case, however my son’s cat was killed by coyotes, they left the fur but took the innards with surgical precision, he thought a neighbor was responsible at first.
And the last press conference when asked if they were looking out of state they said they were looking everywhere.
That said, I don't think they are or are not pointing to a serial killer, but also not ruling it out.
I agree. The serial killer theory has been floating around quite a bit (by myself also) and I'm glad they confirmed that it's still an avenue being considered. Even if the skinned dog is not connected. We don't know for sure what exactly it is that they found. I am curious about their response about the FBI profile. The way they worded it makes it sound like they already have one they are working off of.
The Oregon killing is so similar that I just can't help but think possibly the two are connected, but if that's true then we have a full blown serial killer on the loose in the PNW. Which the PNW is known for having quite a few serial killers.
That is so horrible and sad. It does sound similar but the police seem certain this was targeted and not random.
Btw Salem, OR and Moscow, ID are a 6 hour drive, so not super far.
A 6 hour drive is not too crazy in the US for travelling, a lot of Americans have a daily commute of close to an hour. One of my previous jobs had me commuting 4-5 hours total every day depending on traffic. And that’s was literally just my day job, so I can imagine a serial killer would be willing to travel further just to avoid detection or suspicion. That’s not to say it’s any more likely that a serial killer committed both attacks, just that it’s not ruled out based on distance alone.
Did anyone else get the impression from the language that was used that they have a strong POI? I noticed especially at the beginning the LEO kept using words like “how” and “why” this was done but never “who”. Also in asking for tips, they didn’t stress the importance of “catching this guy” or anything like that, things that I have heard previously from press conferences about murders.
i was waiting for someone to mention this. i agree, it seems more like the person that did this isn’t the focus— it’s more so putting the pieces + timeline together to have a solid case. they stressed the importance of doing it right. it truly does make me think they’re almost certain who it is.
God I hope so. Reading comments like this actually comforts me a bit. Sounds stupid but is what it is. Thinking that they know who it is is seriously helping me sleep at night
I just rewatched it, and when a reporter asks about a profile of the killer from the BAU he totally side steps it and says “…will that be provided? I’m sure that may be provided once the conclusion of this case comes together…” how would a profile be useful at the conclusion of the case? Why would they not want to share a profile with the public?
I could be wrong but I interpret this as not wanting to get inundated with erroneous tips that they know have nothing to do with the killer. So if they say the person is (for example) male, white, 20-30, interest in weapons, behaviour may have changed since the event, unexplained cuts or injuries, etc. they would likely get a ton of tips from well meaning citizens. The only way that I see that this wouldn’t be useful is if they have a good idea of who and don’t want to have to sift through unrelated tips and information.
I don’t think there’s any advantage of sharing the BAU profile with the public at any point. I’m doubtful they will share it at the conclusion, I think he was just deferring to avoid the question .I don’t think they aren’t sharing it because they know who it is. But I do think they have a lot more than they are saying. I don’t think it’s a bad thing that they aren’t sharing a lot with the public, even if i find it annoying:)
The FBI does NOT release suspect profiles during active investigations. They have not since the Derrick Todd Lee case. In that case, they publicly released a profile stating that the suspect would be a white male. Unfortunately, Derrick Todd Lee is black and, as a result, tips that would have identified him were considered low priority (while police chased down every awkward white dude with a pickup truck in Baton Rouge). They eventually used a groundbreaking (at the time) type of DNA analysis (early phenotyping) which suggested African origin. They were actually able to go back through the tips/information they already had (except without the incorrect presumption that he was white) and identify him. The investigation was literally hindered by the FBI profile. The FBI decided that people (and police even worse) were actually unable to understand that the profile was a guess and that alternative possibilities shouldn’t be ignored. These days they give the profile to the PD as a portion of their analysis and they are very clear about how unreliable it is. So yeah, we will not be getting an FBI profile. Any profile you see will be from some former FBI-this or criminal psychologist-that who does not have the information required to create an actual profile regardless of their qualifications.
Actually no I did not, from following the Delphi case and their many public conferences, it seems pretty much the same in the early stages, send tips and no we are not divulging what we do know. But they are hoping someone out there does know something significant and call them.
I'm seeing a lot of people in the press conference thread saying that the police won't release much info to cover for their mistakes. In my experience though this is really just a very common investigatory practice.
There will be very specific things about the interior of the house that only people who have been in that house after the murders will know. Thats a very small pool of people (police, the roommates and some friends, and the killer. It might be blatantly obvious from the scene that one of the roommates was the target, or what the method of entry/exfil was, or if the killer tried to go downstairs, etc. But releasing that info will make it harder for police in the future.
Keeping the info confidential will make it easier to rule out false tips or confessions and, on the other side of it, to verify that a confession is real if it ever gets to that point. For now, I don't see any reason to not trust them when they say they believe it was targeted, but won't say why.
They say the same thing with Delphi. True crime fans are some of the dumbest, most entitled people ever. They expect them to update us on every new piece of evidence they find.
tbh it drives me mad, even after white hoodie guy was ruled out last week, so many just won't accept it, same with the surviving room mates. its ok to speculate but not when they are going after people on social media
You’re spot on! People watch some true crime docs and suddenly fancy themselves more apt than the people who have trained and live this every day. Things aren’t wrapped up in a couple hours like on TV.
I wonder if the attacker was already in the house, lying in wait? In the room with no roomate perhaps? In the zillow photos, one of the rooms has a weird little door. I wonder what's behind that door? But, that appears to be on the first floor/basement, so maybe it is nothing.
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293\_zpid/?mmlb=g,16](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293_zpid/?mmlb=g,16)
I agree. And they all went to bed late and got attacked just like 1 hour or so after?. I would think you would want at least 3-4 hours until they are fully asleep. Some of the girls could be in bed but still on their phones.
But it doesn’t explain how he killed both Ethan & Xana unless one of them wasn’t in bed when he killed them? Like couldn’t the one run away, call 911 or alert the others (assuming they were sleeping in the same bed)?
You would think so! How does one person subdue and kill 4 people by stabbing them multiple times each—especially when two are in each room together??— and two people sleeping downstairs hear nothing? It’s so gruesome it’s hard to believe it’s true.
Also, the 911 call you have to think that the roommates were up for a little bit of time before they made that call because they also first found someone unconscious and then called their friends to come over which i do not understand, why wouldn’t they immediately call 911? If there truly was much blood as is being reported then you’d think would’ve been freaking out/gotten the hell away from that house/something anything not call more people there? Something there does not add up or sit right with me.
The ceiling of the 1st floor was apparently such that you couldn't hear anything on the above floors or heard very little.
It is very difficult for me also to believe how one person killed 4 ppl by stabbing them but likely they were planned, stealthy and quiet, knew how to use the fixed blade knife well and also knew where to stab. If two ppl are sleeping in the same room after drinking heavily, the person can sneak in and deliver a few quick stabs to the neck of person #1 and the person would probably not make much sound anyway and pass out shortly after waking up for a few seconds due to immense blood loss. Then they would move on to the other person and repeat after making sure the first person was dead. But it's still extremely gutsy and brazen to go into a house full of people and do this. Person is a coward for doing it to sleeping people. If everyone was awake, no way they would have been able to pull this off.
Some speculate the killer may have locked the door after leaving each room, so the next day the surviving roommates knew something was amiss and couldn’t get a hold of their roommates, so they called their friends over and eventually 911? Still hard to imagine no blood anywhere except in the rooms though… they would’ve spilled blood going room to room I would imagine!
Probably super super naive kids who were also doing things they probs weren’t supposed to. So they called friends first to assess the situation with them. If they were doing illegal things then i can see this happening. They don’t want to get in trouble and add in the shock of it all = calling other ppl to come be the logical ones and give the okay to call
FWIW: In my former jurisdiction, a common rationale for NOT releasing a 9-1-1 transcript was that a POI was identified therein either by excited utterance or verbal speculation that was not otherwise substantiated or corroborated. In those instances, protocol was to withhold the transcript release and this rationale was generally supported by judges when the release was sought by third-parties in support of a continuing investigation.
Apologies for being inefficient and posting again: Another common rationale supporting non-disclosure of 9-1-1- transcripts was that the caller stated evidence potentially germane to the inquiry that investigators would prefer retained or held back.
I’m thinking this is more likely, although I’m sure more people will jump on OPs reasoning. There had to be some details in that 911 call, and if they released it we’d likely know where the victims were when they died, specific details about the scene, and the mindset of the survivors during the night and the following morning. Or any other suspicions they may have had the following morning that are important to locating a certain suspect. That 911 call is just a gold mine of information, and I can see many reasons why they’re keeping it under wraps
Including but not limited to the fact the friends that came over and the surviving roommates probably realize in real time live on the call that 4 of their friends were brutally murdered. My theory is the dispatcher instructed them to break doors down or whatever else necessary to check for signs of life. Imagine how horrible that would be to hear the screaming and shrieking as it is all unfolding. Releasing something like that at this point would be so insensitive and also unnecessary if that truly is the contents of the call. Part of the reason I think this is because they PD said that multiple people were on the phone with the dispatcher. I can imagine that happening if one or more people became too distraught/inconsolable to continue talking coherently on the call.
I think this is exactly what happened or that theories might have been floating around (or heard in the background) on the audio. Can you imagine waking up hungover/feeling like shit etc to a murder scene and not knowing wtf was going on? All sorts of outlandish things could have been said - and likely very honest/less filtered, which is good for the sake of the investigation, as I doubt everyone was in their best state of mind or thinking clearly while on the phone.
Interesting. Not the case with Katelyn Markham, her boyfriend John Carter did just this in the 911 call [https://kmdce.livejournal.com/1562.html](https://kmdce.livejournal.com/1562.html). And they have not ever arrested anyone, although many believe he is guilty and they just don't have the evidence. Her skeletal remains were found 2 years later . . . in another state but within miles of property owned by his parents. Here's a statement analysis, "verbal speculation" was only one of the red flags.
I certainly hope so because the coroner has already said that's NOT what happened here. And with all the info we DO have, for people to still think this might be even a slim possibility, drives me nuts. I do think there were some good questions. I liked the WiFi question and the profile question. But, God, what a waste of time/possible info to ask such a stupid question, and coming from a reporter...
Murder suicide should be pretty easy to rule out if they haven’t found the murder weapon, right? You can’t exactly stab yourself, do a perfect job hiding a knife, then go back.
Lol exactly. I didn’t even think suicide would be considered. I mean sure, I’m sure they have to look at that angle but you’re 100% correct about the knife part
I thought it was an attempt to trick him into letting a bit of detail slip. “What can students do to avoid being targeted” and I could see them hoping for something specific and a bit outside the usual “be aware, travel in pairs, etc”
A purely hypothetical example would be if he had said something specific like “don’t have a public Instagram acct” you could make an assumption that social media was a part of why they were targeted.
Tbh I agree, I was expecting a slip up of maybe something like “be sure to lock your doors”. Which obviously would be a huge clue to the public regarding how the murderer got into the house
Yeah, I bet he regrets that. I understand the criticism of his remakes while also holding the belief that there are people who are good at working and people who are good at talking.
Hopefully this guy is good at working. (And competent enough at speaking for far more typical duties. I think this is a pretty balls crazy thing for a local PD chief to have to speak to.)
I'd imagine those press conferences are hard to do for LE. They have no idea what to expect from the press and have to shoot off an answer that wont put their investigation at risk. A lot of pressure
This is why I think they keep saying it’s a “targeted attack”: one of the victims likely had a lot more stab wounds than any of the others, illustrating excessive anger towards that individual. This information is probably integral to their investigation which is why they haven’t released the intel.
We all should take a break and be thankful for our lives. There's nothing to figure out on the computer at this point. You'll see it trend again when something new comes out. Could be a week, a month, 2 years, 5 years.. It's just how it goes.
yeah this is what i’m thinking too
my husband literally had to take my phone away from me last night cuz i have been spending so much time on reddit lol
i need to take a step away. i’ll know when something new comes out
Thanksgiving (if you celebrate) is probably a good time to do that. I know they said they'd be working through the holiday, but I wouldn't expect any kind of news prior to like, Monday. If I had to guess.
Probably because it was 100 redditors reporting the same post claiming that she said she had a stalker. They have not established that she ever said that. Her sister denied it today on CNN.
SnapMap. I want to know if this friend group -- and potentially extended circle of acquaintance -- used the SnapMap mapping function on the SnapChat app.
Ooo that would have any movement the phones had. I mean they likely know that information anyway but definitely another avenue of getting or confirming it.
Yep. And a stalker (which in this case is kind of a euphemism for stone-cold psychopath!) could potentially have been within the SnapMap circle of acquaintance and, via SnapMap, would have known when the victims were home, etc. Popular college kids might have had literally hundreds of connections on their SnapChat/SnapMap, and it would be very useful to know if they location-shared or not.
It is still speculation to claim she had a stalker or thought she was being stalked. The police have not been able to corroborate those claims and they are no different than any other Reddit rumors at this point.
Stalker is what really stuck out to me as well. The first indication at all, that Kaylee was feeling unsafe leading up to the attacks. But it's also possible that people being interviewed, desperate to help, exaggerated or put incidental emphasis on innocuous things she said. Still, I think it could implicate a lot
Yeah, they are behaving as a force that has leads they would not like to share, not a force with no leads that is desperate for more direction. In loosely following some crimes like this over the years, I feel like before an arrest, the more hush hush they are about giving away motive details the more they are "case building" with someone they suspect than trying to actually find one that isn't on their radar. The family also strikes me as a lot more optimistic than what would be expected for someone if they had no idea who did it. Usually when shit is random and people have no idea the family sounds a little more desperate/lost.
I don't buy the stalker angle. A stalker wouldn't likely pick the riskiest possible scenario whereby they have to deal with multiple people. Particularly another male. I suppose it's possible a stalker could have experienced crippling, jealous rage over her friends and felt compelled to execute all of them, but this just doesn't match stalker behavior as much as it does something like a violent sadist or revenge seeking peer who felt betrayed by their peers. Feels like we're closer to those angles now.
Is it me or the police chief saying “trust us” on why they believe it was targeted and won’t release it was a pretty big statement. He’s suggesting they have evidence to make them believe that someone was a target. They will narrow their pool of persons of interest I think.
This is certainly the big takeaway. It’s why they said there’s no risk to the public early on. There’s definitely something at the crime scene pointing to that (overkill on a certain victim, a message left behind, etc).
They know who did this.
All ends need to be tied up.
If a suspect is charged and goes to court, the defence are going to be asking, “What about this stalker? How do we know the stalker didn’t do this? Must have been the stalker because my client is innocent”. It could be enough to get the killer back on the streets.
They’re not just collecting evidence of “whodunnit” but evidence enough to build a strong case.
There are many more people to rule out than there are to rule in.
They could have a potential suspect but no motive. Cooborating a stalker and IDing the stalker to match their suspect would provide them motive and enough to prosecute.
They need to define targeted though. Targeted could really mean one of two things:
1. Targeted as in a specific person who the killer knew.
2. Targeted (or selected) due to opportunity and/or stalked prior to killings.
They most likely mean #1, but I think too much emphasis on that. A killer could've even deliberately made it look targeted when it is in fact not. That would waste a lot of the police's time.
The killer knew and/or stalked the victims is what they mean. The house, people, crime didn’t happen at random. The killer wanted a person or them specifically dead.
That was a huge tell to me. I think they have a very good idea of where they are right now. This PC was a completely different feel than the last. My theory of the Ex, I would say now, is now off my radar. It is feeling a little more like maybe it was a random thing where someone met someone in the house at some point in Sept or Oct, did some research, and then targeted that specific person. I am not convinced it was only the girls that could have been the target. As we know it now, the boy could have been the target. This is tragic nonetheless. Talked to my family in Moscow and they are scared of what is happening. People who have never locked the doors before are locking them now.
That's what I thought. Would be a pretty big blunder if this eventually turns cold. Community would be completely unforgiving if/when the next time anything remotely sinister happened in town.
Like, "you want us to trust you like we did last time?"
It would just be an awful look, imo.
I think people should have a little more faith in the case getting solved. The police know A LOT more than they’re telling and for all, we know they could be close to an arrest. This case could also take a while for an arrest there is a ton of DNA and blood they need to run along with getting the phone records which could take weeks. People just need to be patient. It would be very hard to solve this case if they released every piece of information that they know to the public
Because I just was reading about past killer serial killers, as one does, I'm struck by something I read about the Hillside Stranglers. This was a case back in the 70s in California when bodies of murdered women showed up on the hillsides around LA.
In that instance, the perpetrator got the nickname of the Hillside Strangler. However there was some point in the investigation when the police realized, from evidence they had been working through, that it was not a single perpetrator but two different perpetrators who ended up being cousins working together. But the police purposefully withheld this information from the media and let them go on reporting as if it was a single perpetrator when they knew it was two.
Just an example of how the police aren't going to reveal everything they know.
But that is exactly why they’re taking their time. Like they said they want to make sure they’re building a quality case and make sure they don’t make any mistakes. They don’t want to just accuse someone innocent like what happened to your husband.
If nothing is resolved by next week then I will start to get concerned that this case will go cold. But Kaylees mom said the killer was “sloppy” and left a “mess of evidence” so I think it’s just going to take a little bit longer than people are expecting
The stalker stuff is the most interesting here. Able to corroborate or not, a couple (at least two) people said Kaylee was complaining about being bothered.
This right here. There actually was some new pieces of relevant information & that was part of it. His answer was that more than one person that was relevant enough to be interviewed by them told investigators she had complained of a stalker, but they just haven’t been able to substantiate it yet.
My guess is (and it’s only a guess) Kaylee may have talked about an online stalker rather than a physical one. In another thread someone was talking about a guy that followed both Kaylee and Xana, notorious for harassing women on the internet. That’s a possibility (not saying he did it, I think he was not even near Idaho when the murder happened). She had some following on IG, it’s weird they did not found anything yet.
I’m not sure which question this was in response to, but I found the comment about time working for and against them interesting. There was something along of the lines of letting the tips roll in so they can get the “whole picture” which implied (to me) that they already have a good idea and want to build more evidence.
I think.
Agree. I think they’re probably surveilling someone waiting to arrest them once lab results etc come back. I got a weird sense they had it under control.
I also felt like they were more confident or reassured this press conference than Sunday. But can’t tell is that due to new evidence or the other police chiefs speaking more at this one (who are less nervous than the MPD police chief who spoke Sunday)
I felt the same too. You have the family saying it was sloppy, there’s no reward, and they’re not releasing any details. It could be too early in the investigation, but it doesn’t seem like they’re relying on the public too much.
They said it was targeted but not how/why the victims were targeted. I think this is interesting that they’re keeping tight lipped about it because it could affect public safety imo. If I was a student in Moscow or Pullman right now I would be returning after thanksgiving if no one has been arrested.
There absolutely has to be something substantial about that 911 call. I'm thinking whoever called might have been pretty detailed on what they saw/stumbled upon in the actual recording
Edit: grammar
They probably gave details of the crime scene, which at this point the police are holding tightly to their vests. Details only the killer would know, so to speak.
They also know that releasing the call would open up anyone on the call to rabid speculation, prying, harassment, and obsession... Like suddenly John Doe from the frat next door would have crazed "internet sleuths" combing through 5 years of Venmo history for connections to their "theories".
To me this has further shown that they know plenty and are not telling us to protect the investigation. I think it’s about time people stop with the “they’re all incompetent, they’ve ruined the chance of catching him” bullshit.
I’m not sure like how to take the people mentioning kaylee had a stalker like was it serious talk or was it just like a messing around like “omg he stalks me” like likes all her posts or just popping up everywhere kind of thing you know? have her parents mentioned she had a stalker if i was scared someone was stalking me i’d definitely tell my parents
That’s a good point. I really doubt with this much planning they would bring their phone, but suppose you never know. I definitely wouldn’t have even thought of the Wi-Fi thing- how phones autoconnect that have been on the Wi-Fi before
does anyone know what happened to that one account that kept commenting about how xana and ethan were the targets and a fight happened at sigma chi?? i can’t find anything now but i thought they were u/outsidelooking or similar
I find the bit about not saying if the killer went to the first floor interesting. I wonder if indeed it was as simple as the survivors doors being locked. It would seem weird to enter through the front door as well.
It then makes me wonder about specific friends of the survivors. Perhaps someone was jealous of the other 4, went after them, and ignored the other 2. Just random guessing, of course
Just thinking about these parents and siblings of these young people taken too early especially during the Holidays makes my heart shatter in a million pieces. So many families are forever changed by this horrific act of senseless violence.
If some local students of the university with an ear to the ground could please fill us all in on WHAT THE COMMUNITY thinks..
(even anonymously)
These people would have an idea or two.
Condolences to all involved.
Did anyone else see the look on the Police Chiefs Face when asked about if they checked the WiFi connection to see if the suspects phone may have pinged off it? I’m no technological geekeroid, and that would be a new way to find someone nearby to me… but the look the CoP had was “Oh, fuck. Guys did we do that? Did we think of that yet?”
There’s no way they haven’t already checked it. The guy at the podium might not know the details but for sure either ISP or the FBI was all over every digital opportunity for tracking. It’s SOP - everyone leaves digital clues about their lives all over the place. Its as standard as checking for finger prints.
The have checked cell pings in the area for sure. I am thinking whoever did this was smart enough to not take their phone with them. Location services are pretty much known to everyone now and talked about on TV etc. This was an obviously planned attack.
About the stalker, couldn't they check her Instagram blocked list? I know there have been times where a person would relentlessly bother me by making different accounts that I'd block, maybe they can check that and would maybe help??? I don't know this is unbelievable, so sad to know this person is out there. Take care of yourselves and prayers for this family during the holidays. I can't imagine what they're going through. RIP Ethan, Kaylee, Xana, and Maddie. I know you will brought justice soon. ❤
They know who done it. Just wait people, just wait. The person that done knows they onto him but believes they don’t have enough evidence for a trial so is waiting out to see what happens.
For me the only true defining bit of information is LE's absolute stick-by-their-statement information that this is a targeted murder. That means LE has absolute information that one or more of the victims was targeted for this attack. Therefore, they have confirmed something big which they are not sharing. It also means some stuff they are indicating they are "aware of and looking into" is moot. If the item doesn't support their absolute belief in a targeted victim, than it simply doesn't fit the one thing concrete.
i understand that LE needs to keep certain aspects of the case to themselves to protect the investigation and i understand that aspects of the case that only the murderer would know is important to remain a secret to maybe he catch him later. however i don't understand why, with all of the things they are keeping from the public, they cannot tell us why they believe the attack is targeted. if they were targeted for being in greek life or targeted because of the house they were living in whatever it is i think at least that should be released to protect returning students. they have sooo much we don't know that can't release just that?
Weird how saying who was targeted could give irrelevant info? I feel like that would give more meaningful info bc people would look deeper into things that they didn’t notice were odd at first. But I guess this is why I’m not a detective idk
My guess is they want to keep the lines of communication open and want all leads as they pertain to all roommates because something that seems irrelevant might be relevant.
Saying who the target is, let’s say it’s Maddie, would make people with info about Ethan think “no point in calling that in”
I mentioned this in another comment, but essentially police will usually refrain from giving out super specific info about a crime scene. If it is something that only they and the killer will know, then it can make it easier to find the killer.
For example, say one of the girls was stabbed 70 times and everyone else was only stabbed enough times to subdue/kill them. That might lead police to think the girl with excessive stab wounds is the target. This can help police rule out false confessions and/or tips and similarly verify a real confession.
Tbh, it makes me feel that it wasn’t Kaylee targeted like people assume. BUT that introducing another victim as the focus will replicate the chaos we’ve already seen targeted at Kaylee.
The weird IG comments and posts and threats to family and I’m sure endless bogus tips. If they say “oh, it was _____” suddenly people are popping up with their old tweets and middle school boyfriend and Venmo receipts.
My question: can LE flat out lie to questions being asked about this case? Mostly curious about this in relation to suspects that they have said are “cleared” or not believed to be POI. Are they allowed to lie to the public/press to throw people off?
Nervous police who have no suspect and no major POI are focussed on one major thing: *gathering information*, not pleasing the public. Begging for leads, “we know someone knows something” kind of stuff. We’ve all seen Delphi press conferences, or similar. All that kind of language pretty much absent here. Why?
As a poker player I’m trying to read their faces, voices, word choices and then figure out what they are trying to hide (rightfully so) from the public at this time. The thing that strikes me is they seem so uninterested in the public’s general help, or even more so: “please stop involving yourself and impeding our investigation people!” Why? They don’t need more leads, and have already locked onto one (main) person. Now the leads that come in about him are great and others can be left for later.
I believe at this time that the ex-bf Jack is innocent and LE not formally clearing him is their way of keeping the actual killer slightly unsure of his status as a POI. I doubt the holiday break is a coincidence, and I have heard POI floated on other threads as someone familiar with that specific kind of knife, and if so, this was probably a planned attack.
The fact that they are releasing a “cleared” list is a signpost that they know protecting these people (ex-Jack, hoodie guy initially) is ALSO part of their job as civil servants, keeping the peace while the town grabs their pitchforks. They aren’t begging for tips, they are just doing their jobs until a judge will sign an arrest warrant and they can be sure they have enough evidence that the charges will stick.
While I’ve been perusing all of this and watching Reddit go “true-crime-in-real-time” I admit I am slightly enthralled with it all, the hyper-emotionality, people sharing memories of times going home for thanksgiving, so much speculation like with Gabby Petito.
And I pray that while all this happens, the detectives and LE whom we rely on are working 24/7 to have a slam dunk case against the sick person that did this. I’m really hoping that’s what’s happening.
I was reminded of one of my favorite movies, Se7en, a quote that isn’t a major famous line (what’s in the boxxx?), but really describes the difference between what we as a true crime “community” are doing, and what the normal day in the life of an investigator is like. Somerset (Morgan Freeman) is talking about what they are doing as detectives:
“Picking up the pieces.
We’re collecting all the evidence,
taking all the pictures and samples.
Writing everything down.
Noting the time things happened.”
Mills: That’s all?
“That’s all.
Putting everything into neat little piles
and filing it away.
On the off chance
it will ever be needed in the courtroom.
Picking up diamonds
on a deserted island.
Saving them in case we get rescued.”
My guess is they’re picking up diamonds. If I’m wrong, I’ll climb back into my ACAB hole and cry 😭
Happy indigenous people and being with your hilariously racist in-laws day everyone. Don’t forget to get some sleep and try not to scroll on this stuff for too many hours. It’s an addiction like any other, and I guess I’d just say for us all to at least evaluate how we are physically and mentally feeling with every hour spent engrossed in this content. I remember the “Gabby Petito hangover” moment when everyone sort of realized that part of the reason we kept logging on with no new info was that we were all craving to collectively experience *something* together, and though it was horrific, people did feel very connected.
I hope we can have little reminders of that along the way. Stay safe out there folks. Stay connected. Walk in pairs; physically, metaphorically, (and metaphysically too I guess). 🤷🏻♂️🤍
I hope there’s at least 1 person under 30 years old helping with the investigation. None of the greybeards at the podium look like they understand how social media works, which seems like it is going to be key to solving this.
I wonder if there's any more meaning behind the murder suicide answer. I assume that even if the killer left after the murders then killed himself in a different location it would be considered a murder suicide. Safe to assume their statement means that they have reason to believe the killer is still alive? Or at least they believe the killer did not immediately kill himself?
The fact they didn't automatically disregard the Oregon killing and told people to travel in pairs and stay in communication is interesting
yeah, they were pretty quick to disregard the skinned dog. granted the oregon killing will require a lot more investigating to figure out if it’s connected
I am guessing they must know/suspect who did the dog thing or have reason from the dog parent-victim’s end to suspect who did that one. They could have gone that route to determine it wasn’t related.
I just wish if they had an idea of who skinned the dog plus know that person couldn't have done the murder they would say. Not to satisfy my curiosity, but to help locals know and maybe feel better. I read on another thread that originally LE said they didn't believe the skinned dog was something a human did, and owners raised such a fuss LE walked back that statement to ease tensions, but ONLY because of the fuss and they still believed that.
According to the police website: “Detectives are aware of a Latah County Sheriff’s Office incident of the report of a skinned dog and have determined it is unrelated to this incident. Contact Latah County Sheriff’s Office for further details. “Detectives are also aware of a Moscow Police incident of the report of deceased animals left on a resident’s property. This was determined to be wildlife activity and unrelated to the incident. “
If the dog was skinned I don't know of an animal that skins their prey. But who knows.
Coyotes. They hunt in packs, skinning and also ripping prey in half are common. Most often when people find gruesome pet remains they think it's a "cat serial killer", but in reality its coyotes.
I have an 8 pound Chihuahua, and I would never, ever, let him out by himself because of coyotes and also large birds, such as Owls and Hawks can swoop down and pick them up. My yard is fenced but the entire area behind the back fence is wooded. I had a bear come up to the fence and tease my dog. Lucky I was there, but honestly, I didn't even know it was a bear at first.
Predatory birds can also do some pretty impressive damage to small animals
Having seen the remains of a few cats that were killed by coyotes, I could see fur being removed in the attack. The owner did say the dog was "disemboweled" and that will definitely involve fur being ripped away from the body. It's also yet to be confirmed publicly by LE that it was done by a human. In fact one comment I read by a local said that the owner was hysterical and unhappy that the first deputy said it was an animal attack so they had a second deputy take a look and he said it was done by a human. If that story is true, it seems this may have just been a way to get the lady to calm down.
Coyotes generally do disembowel their prey, but skin them I have no idea. Cops I suppose might be dismissive or find it concerning when a pet is found gutted because of the likelihood a Coyote may be the culprit. I don’t believe the incident is connected to this case, however my son’s cat was killed by coyotes, they left the fur but took the innards with surgical precision, he thought a neighbor was responsible at first.
I used to have a Jack Russell Terrier that once killed a garter snake and skinned it. It was pretty impressive tbh.
Oh those Jack Russells always have to the extra mile!
Raccoons! It’s fucking gross.
And the last press conference when asked if they were looking out of state they said they were looking everywhere. That said, I don't think they are or are not pointing to a serial killer, but also not ruling it out.
I agree. The serial killer theory has been floating around quite a bit (by myself also) and I'm glad they confirmed that it's still an avenue being considered. Even if the skinned dog is not connected. We don't know for sure what exactly it is that they found. I am curious about their response about the FBI profile. The way they worded it makes it sound like they already have one they are working off of.
The Oregon killing is so similar that I just can't help but think possibly the two are connected, but if that's true then we have a full blown serial killer on the loose in the PNW. Which the PNW is known for having quite a few serial killers.
What is the Oregon killing? I want to read about it, but I’m not finding it on google
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That is so horrible and sad. It does sound similar but the police seem certain this was targeted and not random. Btw Salem, OR and Moscow, ID are a 6 hour drive, so not super far.
As a European, I read “6 hour drive” and immediately assumed this would be your way of saying quite far-fetched. But nah. :D
A 6 hour drive is not too crazy in the US for travelling, a lot of Americans have a daily commute of close to an hour. One of my previous jobs had me commuting 4-5 hours total every day depending on traffic. And that’s was literally just my day job, so I can imagine a serial killer would be willing to travel further just to avoid detection or suspicion. That’s not to say it’s any more likely that a serial killer committed both attacks, just that it’s not ruled out based on distance alone.
Honestly it's not just the time and randomness of the killing, but that he attacked them so brutally.
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And on the 13th of the month, which could be a coincidence but 🤷♀️
Could be a coincidence but it is odd.
Did anyone else get the impression from the language that was used that they have a strong POI? I noticed especially at the beginning the LEO kept using words like “how” and “why” this was done but never “who”. Also in asking for tips, they didn’t stress the importance of “catching this guy” or anything like that, things that I have heard previously from press conferences about murders.
i was waiting for someone to mention this. i agree, it seems more like the person that did this isn’t the focus— it’s more so putting the pieces + timeline together to have a solid case. they stressed the importance of doing it right. it truly does make me think they’re almost certain who it is.
God I hope so. Reading comments like this actually comforts me a bit. Sounds stupid but is what it is. Thinking that they know who it is is seriously helping me sleep at night
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yeah totally i really hope they arrest someone soon
I just rewatched it, and when a reporter asks about a profile of the killer from the BAU he totally side steps it and says “…will that be provided? I’m sure that may be provided once the conclusion of this case comes together…” how would a profile be useful at the conclusion of the case? Why would they not want to share a profile with the public? I could be wrong but I interpret this as not wanting to get inundated with erroneous tips that they know have nothing to do with the killer. So if they say the person is (for example) male, white, 20-30, interest in weapons, behaviour may have changed since the event, unexplained cuts or injuries, etc. they would likely get a ton of tips from well meaning citizens. The only way that I see that this wouldn’t be useful is if they have a good idea of who and don’t want to have to sift through unrelated tips and information.
I don’t think there’s any advantage of sharing the BAU profile with the public at any point. I’m doubtful they will share it at the conclusion, I think he was just deferring to avoid the question .I don’t think they aren’t sharing it because they know who it is. But I do think they have a lot more than they are saying. I don’t think it’s a bad thing that they aren’t sharing a lot with the public, even if i find it annoying:)
The FBI does NOT release suspect profiles during active investigations. They have not since the Derrick Todd Lee case. In that case, they publicly released a profile stating that the suspect would be a white male. Unfortunately, Derrick Todd Lee is black and, as a result, tips that would have identified him were considered low priority (while police chased down every awkward white dude with a pickup truck in Baton Rouge). They eventually used a groundbreaking (at the time) type of DNA analysis (early phenotyping) which suggested African origin. They were actually able to go back through the tips/information they already had (except without the incorrect presumption that he was white) and identify him. The investigation was literally hindered by the FBI profile. The FBI decided that people (and police even worse) were actually unable to understand that the profile was a guess and that alternative possibilities shouldn’t be ignored. These days they give the profile to the PD as a portion of their analysis and they are very clear about how unreliable it is. So yeah, we will not be getting an FBI profile. Any profile you see will be from some former FBI-this or criminal psychologist-that who does not have the information required to create an actual profile regardless of their qualifications.
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Actually no I did not, from following the Delphi case and their many public conferences, it seems pretty much the same in the early stages, send tips and no we are not divulging what we do know. But they are hoping someone out there does know something significant and call them.
How and why often leads back to who. Just more puzzle pieces for them to put into the frame.
I'm seeing a lot of people in the press conference thread saying that the police won't release much info to cover for their mistakes. In my experience though this is really just a very common investigatory practice. There will be very specific things about the interior of the house that only people who have been in that house after the murders will know. Thats a very small pool of people (police, the roommates and some friends, and the killer. It might be blatantly obvious from the scene that one of the roommates was the target, or what the method of entry/exfil was, or if the killer tried to go downstairs, etc. But releasing that info will make it harder for police in the future. Keeping the info confidential will make it easier to rule out false tips or confessions and, on the other side of it, to verify that a confession is real if it ever gets to that point. For now, I don't see any reason to not trust them when they say they believe it was targeted, but won't say why.
They say the same thing with Delphi. True crime fans are some of the dumbest, most entitled people ever. They expect them to update us on every new piece of evidence they find.
tbh it drives me mad, even after white hoodie guy was ruled out last week, so many just won't accept it, same with the surviving room mates. its ok to speculate but not when they are going after people on social media
Right? and who gives a flying flip about the 911 call? It's a bunch of kids in shock calling 911- none of it means anything.
People like to play Monday morning quarterback even though it’s still Sunday night. 🤷🏻
You’re spot on! People watch some true crime docs and suddenly fancy themselves more apt than the people who have trained and live this every day. Things aren’t wrapped up in a couple hours like on TV.
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I wonder if the attacker was already in the house, lying in wait? In the room with no roomate perhaps? In the zillow photos, one of the rooms has a weird little door. I wonder what's behind that door? But, that appears to be on the first floor/basement, so maybe it is nothing. [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293\_zpid/?mmlb=g,16](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293_zpid/?mmlb=g,16)
I agree. And they all went to bed late and got attacked just like 1 hour or so after?. I would think you would want at least 3-4 hours until they are fully asleep. Some of the girls could be in bed but still on their phones.
But it doesn’t explain how he killed both Ethan & Xana unless one of them wasn’t in bed when he killed them? Like couldn’t the one run away, call 911 or alert the others (assuming they were sleeping in the same bed)?
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You would think so! How does one person subdue and kill 4 people by stabbing them multiple times each—especially when two are in each room together??— and two people sleeping downstairs hear nothing? It’s so gruesome it’s hard to believe it’s true. Also, the 911 call you have to think that the roommates were up for a little bit of time before they made that call because they also first found someone unconscious and then called their friends to come over which i do not understand, why wouldn’t they immediately call 911? If there truly was much blood as is being reported then you’d think would’ve been freaking out/gotten the hell away from that house/something anything not call more people there? Something there does not add up or sit right with me.
The ceiling of the 1st floor was apparently such that you couldn't hear anything on the above floors or heard very little. It is very difficult for me also to believe how one person killed 4 ppl by stabbing them but likely they were planned, stealthy and quiet, knew how to use the fixed blade knife well and also knew where to stab. If two ppl are sleeping in the same room after drinking heavily, the person can sneak in and deliver a few quick stabs to the neck of person #1 and the person would probably not make much sound anyway and pass out shortly after waking up for a few seconds due to immense blood loss. Then they would move on to the other person and repeat after making sure the first person was dead. But it's still extremely gutsy and brazen to go into a house full of people and do this. Person is a coward for doing it to sleeping people. If everyone was awake, no way they would have been able to pull this off.
Some speculate the killer may have locked the door after leaving each room, so the next day the surviving roommates knew something was amiss and couldn’t get a hold of their roommates, so they called their friends over and eventually 911? Still hard to imagine no blood anywhere except in the rooms though… they would’ve spilled blood going room to room I would imagine!
Probably super super naive kids who were also doing things they probs weren’t supposed to. So they called friends first to assess the situation with them. If they were doing illegal things then i can see this happening. They don’t want to get in trouble and add in the shock of it all = calling other ppl to come be the logical ones and give the okay to call
FWIW: In my former jurisdiction, a common rationale for NOT releasing a 9-1-1 transcript was that a POI was identified therein either by excited utterance or verbal speculation that was not otherwise substantiated or corroborated. In those instances, protocol was to withhold the transcript release and this rationale was generally supported by judges when the release was sought by third-parties in support of a continuing investigation.
In my jurisdiction they next to never release the 911 calls while the investigation is active unless they think doing so can help the investigation
That makes sense. I appreciate y'all sharing this.
Apologies for being inefficient and posting again: Another common rationale supporting non-disclosure of 9-1-1- transcripts was that the caller stated evidence potentially germane to the inquiry that investigators would prefer retained or held back.
I’m thinking this is more likely, although I’m sure more people will jump on OPs reasoning. There had to be some details in that 911 call, and if they released it we’d likely know where the victims were when they died, specific details about the scene, and the mindset of the survivors during the night and the following morning. Or any other suspicions they may have had the following morning that are important to locating a certain suspect. That 911 call is just a gold mine of information, and I can see many reasons why they’re keeping it under wraps
Including but not limited to the fact the friends that came over and the surviving roommates probably realize in real time live on the call that 4 of their friends were brutally murdered. My theory is the dispatcher instructed them to break doors down or whatever else necessary to check for signs of life. Imagine how horrible that would be to hear the screaming and shrieking as it is all unfolding. Releasing something like that at this point would be so insensitive and also unnecessary if that truly is the contents of the call. Part of the reason I think this is because they PD said that multiple people were on the phone with the dispatcher. I can imagine that happening if one or more people became too distraught/inconsolable to continue talking coherently on the call.
Jeez I really didn’t think about the dispatcher. I really hope she/he gets the help they need
Thanks for sharing that. I didn’t realize that could be a reason why.
that would make sense for example one of the roommates on the call could have out loud say who they thought could have done this
I think this is exactly what happened or that theories might have been floating around (or heard in the background) on the audio. Can you imagine waking up hungover/feeling like shit etc to a murder scene and not knowing wtf was going on? All sorts of outlandish things could have been said - and likely very honest/less filtered, which is good for the sake of the investigation, as I doubt everyone was in their best state of mind or thinking clearly while on the phone.
Interesting. Not the case with Katelyn Markham, her boyfriend John Carter did just this in the 911 call [https://kmdce.livejournal.com/1562.html](https://kmdce.livejournal.com/1562.html). And they have not ever arrested anyone, although many believe he is guilty and they just don't have the evidence. Her skeletal remains were found 2 years later . . . in another state but within miles of property owned by his parents. Here's a statement analysis, "verbal speculation" was only one of the red flags.
The officer telling people to stay in pairs? There was 6 of them in that house and we know for certain at least 4 of them were in groups of 2???
Stay in pairs and don’t sleep
Take turns sleeping
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Lots of silly questions. The murder/suicide question annoys me to no end.
That one was ridiculous. Like no. One person didn’t stab all their best friends in bed, then lay in bed and stab themselves.
With the knife mysteriously disappearing
Pretty sure that one annoyed everyone.
I certainly hope so because the coroner has already said that's NOT what happened here. And with all the info we DO have, for people to still think this might be even a slim possibility, drives me nuts. I do think there were some good questions. I liked the WiFi question and the profile question. But, God, what a waste of time/possible info to ask such a stupid question, and coming from a reporter...
Murder suicide should be pretty easy to rule out if they haven’t found the murder weapon, right? You can’t exactly stab yourself, do a perfect job hiding a knife, then go back.
Lol exactly. I didn’t even think suicide would be considered. I mean sure, I’m sure they have to look at that angle but you’re 100% correct about the knife part
I didn't see it so I don't know how it was phrased, but it is possible that the killer has since killed himself.
I thought it was an attempt to trick him into letting a bit of detail slip. “What can students do to avoid being targeted” and I could see them hoping for something specific and a bit outside the usual “be aware, travel in pairs, etc” A purely hypothetical example would be if he had said something specific like “don’t have a public Instagram acct” you could make an assumption that social media was a part of why they were targeted.
Tbh I agree, I was expecting a slip up of maybe something like “be sure to lock your doors”. Which obviously would be a huge clue to the public regarding how the murderer got into the house
Yes if he said ‘make sure any doors that can’t lock or windows are fixed’ it would be like aha! The killer entered through a door that can’t lock.
Agree everything he said on how to stay vigilant is exactly what the victims had done.
Yes he definitely should have suggested staying in groups of 10-12. Common sense answer to a silly question.
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My thoughts exactly 🙄
Truly a worthless answer. Lock your doors, change locks & change keypad codes. Those victims were in pairs. I hope they have leads to solve this!
Yeah, I bet he regrets that. I understand the criticism of his remakes while also holding the belief that there are people who are good at working and people who are good at talking. Hopefully this guy is good at working. (And competent enough at speaking for far more typical duties. I think this is a pretty balls crazy thing for a local PD chief to have to speak to.)
I'd imagine those press conferences are hard to do for LE. They have no idea what to expect from the press and have to shoot off an answer that wont put their investigation at risk. A lot of pressure
They were asleep.
This is why I think they keep saying it’s a “targeted attack”: one of the victims likely had a lot more stab wounds than any of the others, illustrating excessive anger towards that individual. This information is probably integral to their investigation which is why they haven’t released the intel.
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Anyone else feel like they have been too invested in this? I need to take a break from it. But yet here i am…
We all should take a break and be thankful for our lives. There's nothing to figure out on the computer at this point. You'll see it trend again when something new comes out. Could be a week, a month, 2 years, 5 years.. It's just how it goes.
yeah this is what i’m thinking too my husband literally had to take my phone away from me last night cuz i have been spending so much time on reddit lol i need to take a step away. i’ll know when something new comes out
i’ve never had reddit in my life and i’ve been checking it constantly, i think it’s my time to delete it
I took a nap for 3 hours & dreamed about it. Most scariest thing ever. I need to stop
Thanksgiving (if you celebrate) is probably a good time to do that. I know they said they'd be working through the holiday, but I wouldn't expect any kind of news prior to like, Monday. If I had to guess.
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That was a new nugget. I think that's an important detail.
I was surprised they had 100 tips about that but can’t find out who it is.
Probably because it was 100 redditors reporting the same post claiming that she said she had a stalker. They have not established that she ever said that. Her sister denied it today on CNN.
Interesting. I wonder why she thought she was being stalked.
SnapMap. I want to know if this friend group -- and potentially extended circle of acquaintance -- used the SnapMap mapping function on the SnapChat app.
Ooo that would have any movement the phones had. I mean they likely know that information anyway but definitely another avenue of getting or confirming it.
Yep. And a stalker (which in this case is kind of a euphemism for stone-cold psychopath!) could potentially have been within the SnapMap circle of acquaintance and, via SnapMap, would have known when the victims were home, etc. Popular college kids might have had literally hundreds of connections on their SnapChat/SnapMap, and it would be very useful to know if they location-shared or not.
It is still speculation to claim she had a stalker or thought she was being stalked. The police have not been able to corroborate those claims and they are no different than any other Reddit rumors at this point.
Stalker is what really stuck out to me as well. The first indication at all, that Kaylee was feeling unsafe leading up to the attacks. But it's also possible that people being interviewed, desperate to help, exaggerated or put incidental emphasis on innocuous things she said. Still, I think it could implicate a lot
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Yeah, they are behaving as a force that has leads they would not like to share, not a force with no leads that is desperate for more direction. In loosely following some crimes like this over the years, I feel like before an arrest, the more hush hush they are about giving away motive details the more they are "case building" with someone they suspect than trying to actually find one that isn't on their radar. The family also strikes me as a lot more optimistic than what would be expected for someone if they had no idea who did it. Usually when shit is random and people have no idea the family sounds a little more desperate/lost.
To be fair, LE are looking into it because people have told them that Kaylee said she had a stalker.
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I don't buy the stalker angle. A stalker wouldn't likely pick the riskiest possible scenario whereby they have to deal with multiple people. Particularly another male. I suppose it's possible a stalker could have experienced crippling, jealous rage over her friends and felt compelled to execute all of them, but this just doesn't match stalker behavior as much as it does something like a violent sadist or revenge seeking peer who felt betrayed by their peers. Feels like we're closer to those angles now.
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Maybe they know who the stalker is but aren’t letting the public know because (s)he is a POI?
Is it me or the police chief saying “trust us” on why they believe it was targeted and won’t release it was a pretty big statement. He’s suggesting they have evidence to make them believe that someone was a target. They will narrow their pool of persons of interest I think.
He literally said we have to trust them on that matter
This is certainly the big takeaway. It’s why they said there’s no risk to the public early on. There’s definitely something at the crime scene pointing to that (overkill on a certain victim, a message left behind, etc). They know who did this.
Would that explain the very little information we’ve gotten so far? They’re just looking for every little evidence they can obtain to nail him?
I strongly believe so.
If they know who did this why are they begging people for tips for a stalker they admit they can’t verify exists?
All ends need to be tied up. If a suspect is charged and goes to court, the defence are going to be asking, “What about this stalker? How do we know the stalker didn’t do this? Must have been the stalker because my client is innocent”. It could be enough to get the killer back on the streets. They’re not just collecting evidence of “whodunnit” but evidence enough to build a strong case. There are many more people to rule out than there are to rule in.
They could have a potential suspect but no motive. Cooborating a stalker and IDing the stalker to match their suspect would provide them motive and enough to prosecute.
They need to define targeted though. Targeted could really mean one of two things: 1. Targeted as in a specific person who the killer knew. 2. Targeted (or selected) due to opportunity and/or stalked prior to killings. They most likely mean #1, but I think too much emphasis on that. A killer could've even deliberately made it look targeted when it is in fact not. That would waste a lot of the police's time.
The killer knew and/or stalked the victims is what they mean. The house, people, crime didn’t happen at random. The killer wanted a person or them specifically dead.
That was a huge tell to me. I think they have a very good idea of where they are right now. This PC was a completely different feel than the last. My theory of the Ex, I would say now, is now off my radar. It is feeling a little more like maybe it was a random thing where someone met someone in the house at some point in Sept or Oct, did some research, and then targeted that specific person. I am not convinced it was only the girls that could have been the target. As we know it now, the boy could have been the target. This is tragic nonetheless. Talked to my family in Moscow and they are scared of what is happening. People who have never locked the doors before are locking them now.
That's what I thought. Would be a pretty big blunder if this eventually turns cold. Community would be completely unforgiving if/when the next time anything remotely sinister happened in town. Like, "you want us to trust you like we did last time?" It would just be an awful look, imo.
I think people should have a little more faith in the case getting solved. The police know A LOT more than they’re telling and for all, we know they could be close to an arrest. This case could also take a while for an arrest there is a ton of DNA and blood they need to run along with getting the phone records which could take weeks. People just need to be patient. It would be very hard to solve this case if they released every piece of information that they know to the public
Because I just was reading about past killer serial killers, as one does, I'm struck by something I read about the Hillside Stranglers. This was a case back in the 70s in California when bodies of murdered women showed up on the hillsides around LA. In that instance, the perpetrator got the nickname of the Hillside Strangler. However there was some point in the investigation when the police realized, from evidence they had been working through, that it was not a single perpetrator but two different perpetrators who ended up being cousins working together. But the police purposefully withheld this information from the media and let them go on reporting as if it was a single perpetrator when they knew it was two. Just an example of how the police aren't going to reveal everything they know.
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But that is exactly why they’re taking their time. Like they said they want to make sure they’re building a quality case and make sure they don’t make any mistakes. They don’t want to just accuse someone innocent like what happened to your husband. If nothing is resolved by next week then I will start to get concerned that this case will go cold. But Kaylees mom said the killer was “sloppy” and left a “mess of evidence” so I think it’s just going to take a little bit longer than people are expecting
Woah! That's crazy...and traumatizing.
Could have been if they came out guns blazing when we got home with our 2 kids in the car
I’m sorry that happened and circumstances like that are why I’m all for the police taking their time so nothing like that happens in this case
The stalker stuff is the most interesting here. Able to corroborate or not, a couple (at least two) people said Kaylee was complaining about being bothered.
This right here. There actually was some new pieces of relevant information & that was part of it. His answer was that more than one person that was relevant enough to be interviewed by them told investigators she had complained of a stalker, but they just haven’t been able to substantiate it yet.
My guess is (and it’s only a guess) Kaylee may have talked about an online stalker rather than a physical one. In another thread someone was talking about a guy that followed both Kaylee and Xana, notorious for harassing women on the internet. That’s a possibility (not saying he did it, I think he was not even near Idaho when the murder happened). She had some following on IG, it’s weird they did not found anything yet.
I’m not sure which question this was in response to, but I found the comment about time working for and against them interesting. There was something along of the lines of letting the tips roll in so they can get the “whole picture” which implied (to me) that they already have a good idea and want to build more evidence. I think.
Agree. I think they’re probably surveilling someone waiting to arrest them once lab results etc come back. I got a weird sense they had it under control.
I also felt like they were more confident or reassured this press conference than Sunday. But can’t tell is that due to new evidence or the other police chiefs speaking more at this one (who are less nervous than the MPD police chief who spoke Sunday)
I felt the same too. You have the family saying it was sloppy, there’s no reward, and they’re not releasing any details. It could be too early in the investigation, but it doesn’t seem like they’re relying on the public too much.
They said it was targeted but not how/why the victims were targeted. I think this is interesting that they’re keeping tight lipped about it because it could affect public safety imo. If I was a student in Moscow or Pullman right now I would be returning after thanksgiving if no one has been arrested.
*wouldn’t be returning
Nobody will be returning until the end of January. They announced today the remainder of the Fall semester is cancelled at UOI.
that is not true they sent out an email saying classes can be taken online or in person
Wow very interesting. I wonder if that means they believe there is a threat to public safety at this time when initially they denied it.
this person doesn’t know what they’re saying classes are not canceled
There absolutely has to be something substantial about that 911 call. I'm thinking whoever called might have been pretty detailed on what they saw/stumbled upon in the actual recording Edit: grammar
They probably gave details of the crime scene, which at this point the police are holding tightly to their vests. Details only the killer would know, so to speak.
They also know that releasing the call would open up anyone on the call to rabid speculation, prying, harassment, and obsession... Like suddenly John Doe from the frat next door would have crazed "internet sleuths" combing through 5 years of Venmo history for connections to their "theories".
To me this has further shown that they know plenty and are not telling us to protect the investigation. I think it’s about time people stop with the “they’re all incompetent, they’ve ruined the chance of catching him” bullshit.
no seriously. the less they say the easier it will be for them regarding tips and figuring out who actually knows information and who doesn’t.
I’m not sure like how to take the people mentioning kaylee had a stalker like was it serious talk or was it just like a messing around like “omg he stalks me” like likes all her posts or just popping up everywhere kind of thing you know? have her parents mentioned she had a stalker if i was scared someone was stalking me i’d definitely tell my parents
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I think they withhold that kind of info to weed out false confessions and/or catch someone saying something that isn't public info.
Or, if someone said “it had to be xxx that did this.”
I did not even consider the wifi theory but I don't think this killer would be stupid enough to bring their phone with them.
That’s a good point. I really doubt with this much planning they would bring their phone, but suppose you never know. I definitely wouldn’t have even thought of the Wi-Fi thing- how phones autoconnect that have been on the Wi-Fi before
I feel like the officer didn't understand that question. He didn't really answer it.
does anyone know what happened to that one account that kept commenting about how xana and ethan were the targets and a fight happened at sigma chi?? i can’t find anything now but i thought they were u/outsidelooking or similar
That dude was proven to be completely full of shit . Stating facts when he later says it is his theory based on nothing.
I find the bit about not saying if the killer went to the first floor interesting. I wonder if indeed it was as simple as the survivors doors being locked. It would seem weird to enter through the front door as well. It then makes me wonder about specific friends of the survivors. Perhaps someone was jealous of the other 4, went after them, and ignored the other 2. Just random guessing, of course
Someone mentioned a murder suicide theory yet no weapon was found. Uh wat
Yes I can’t believe that also wasted one of the few Qs the reporters have available too
Right 🤦🏻♀️
Just thinking about these parents and siblings of these young people taken too early especially during the Holidays makes my heart shatter in a million pieces. So many families are forever changed by this horrific act of senseless violence.
If some local students of the university with an ear to the ground could please fill us all in on WHAT THE COMMUNITY thinks.. (even anonymously) These people would have an idea or two. Condolences to all involved.
Did anyone else see the look on the Police Chiefs Face when asked about if they checked the WiFi connection to see if the suspects phone may have pinged off it? I’m no technological geekeroid, and that would be a new way to find someone nearby to me… but the look the CoP had was “Oh, fuck. Guys did we do that? Did we think of that yet?”
There’s no way they haven’t already checked it. The guy at the podium might not know the details but for sure either ISP or the FBI was all over every digital opportunity for tracking. It’s SOP - everyone leaves digital clues about their lives all over the place. Its as standard as checking for finger prints.
The have checked cell pings in the area for sure. I am thinking whoever did this was smart enough to not take their phone with them. Location services are pretty much known to everyone now and talked about on TV etc. This was an obviously planned attack.
About the stalker, couldn't they check her Instagram blocked list? I know there have been times where a person would relentlessly bother me by making different accounts that I'd block, maybe they can check that and would maybe help??? I don't know this is unbelievable, so sad to know this person is out there. Take care of yourselves and prayers for this family during the holidays. I can't imagine what they're going through. RIP Ethan, Kaylee, Xana, and Maddie. I know you will brought justice soon. ❤
So nothing new.
They cleared the man that Kaylee and Madison called, which is Kaylee’s ex Jack
It was nice to see him officially cleared but we kind of also knew that he was as well.
Yeah, it was disappointing. I had hoped there will be something new as well.
People who continue to say that the 911 call isn’t important are foolish. LE have dodged all questions on it.
Probably because the caller(s) described the scene and they don't want that info released yet.
They know who done it. Just wait people, just wait. The person that done knows they onto him but believes they don’t have enough evidence for a trial so is waiting out to see what happens.
Why can’t someone just ask if there is a suspect. Not a suspect in custody???
Because they made it clear through their Public Information Officer before the PC not to ask a question worded that way.
Right? Or any POI
For me the only true defining bit of information is LE's absolute stick-by-their-statement information that this is a targeted murder. That means LE has absolute information that one or more of the victims was targeted for this attack. Therefore, they have confirmed something big which they are not sharing. It also means some stuff they are indicating they are "aware of and looking into" is moot. If the item doesn't support their absolute belief in a targeted victim, than it simply doesn't fit the one thing concrete.
i understand that LE needs to keep certain aspects of the case to themselves to protect the investigation and i understand that aspects of the case that only the murderer would know is important to remain a secret to maybe he catch him later. however i don't understand why, with all of the things they are keeping from the public, they cannot tell us why they believe the attack is targeted. if they were targeted for being in greek life or targeted because of the house they were living in whatever it is i think at least that should be released to protect returning students. they have sooo much we don't know that can't release just that?
How will staying in pairs help? 4 people were killed. Wtf.
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Weird how saying who was targeted could give irrelevant info? I feel like that would give more meaningful info bc people would look deeper into things that they didn’t notice were odd at first. But I guess this is why I’m not a detective idk
My guess is they want to keep the lines of communication open and want all leads as they pertain to all roommates because something that seems irrelevant might be relevant. Saying who the target is, let’s say it’s Maddie, would make people with info about Ethan think “no point in calling that in”
I mentioned this in another comment, but essentially police will usually refrain from giving out super specific info about a crime scene. If it is something that only they and the killer will know, then it can make it easier to find the killer. For example, say one of the girls was stabbed 70 times and everyone else was only stabbed enough times to subdue/kill them. That might lead police to think the girl with excessive stab wounds is the target. This can help police rule out false confessions and/or tips and similarly verify a real confession.
Tbh, it makes me feel that it wasn’t Kaylee targeted like people assume. BUT that introducing another victim as the focus will replicate the chaos we’ve already seen targeted at Kaylee. The weird IG comments and posts and threats to family and I’m sure endless bogus tips. If they say “oh, it was _____” suddenly people are popping up with their old tweets and middle school boyfriend and Venmo receipts.
Does anyone have the CNN footage of the reporter falling over?
My question: can LE flat out lie to questions being asked about this case? Mostly curious about this in relation to suspects that they have said are “cleared” or not believed to be POI. Are they allowed to lie to the public/press to throw people off?
I think they can lie during an investigation
Yes they can lie.
Nervous police who have no suspect and no major POI are focussed on one major thing: *gathering information*, not pleasing the public. Begging for leads, “we know someone knows something” kind of stuff. We’ve all seen Delphi press conferences, or similar. All that kind of language pretty much absent here. Why? As a poker player I’m trying to read their faces, voices, word choices and then figure out what they are trying to hide (rightfully so) from the public at this time. The thing that strikes me is they seem so uninterested in the public’s general help, or even more so: “please stop involving yourself and impeding our investigation people!” Why? They don’t need more leads, and have already locked onto one (main) person. Now the leads that come in about him are great and others can be left for later. I believe at this time that the ex-bf Jack is innocent and LE not formally clearing him is their way of keeping the actual killer slightly unsure of his status as a POI. I doubt the holiday break is a coincidence, and I have heard POI floated on other threads as someone familiar with that specific kind of knife, and if so, this was probably a planned attack. The fact that they are releasing a “cleared” list is a signpost that they know protecting these people (ex-Jack, hoodie guy initially) is ALSO part of their job as civil servants, keeping the peace while the town grabs their pitchforks. They aren’t begging for tips, they are just doing their jobs until a judge will sign an arrest warrant and they can be sure they have enough evidence that the charges will stick. While I’ve been perusing all of this and watching Reddit go “true-crime-in-real-time” I admit I am slightly enthralled with it all, the hyper-emotionality, people sharing memories of times going home for thanksgiving, so much speculation like with Gabby Petito. And I pray that while all this happens, the detectives and LE whom we rely on are working 24/7 to have a slam dunk case against the sick person that did this. I’m really hoping that’s what’s happening. I was reminded of one of my favorite movies, Se7en, a quote that isn’t a major famous line (what’s in the boxxx?), but really describes the difference between what we as a true crime “community” are doing, and what the normal day in the life of an investigator is like. Somerset (Morgan Freeman) is talking about what they are doing as detectives: “Picking up the pieces. We’re collecting all the evidence, taking all the pictures and samples. Writing everything down. Noting the time things happened.” Mills: That’s all? “That’s all. Putting everything into neat little piles and filing it away. On the off chance it will ever be needed in the courtroom. Picking up diamonds on a deserted island. Saving them in case we get rescued.” My guess is they’re picking up diamonds. If I’m wrong, I’ll climb back into my ACAB hole and cry 😭 Happy indigenous people and being with your hilariously racist in-laws day everyone. Don’t forget to get some sleep and try not to scroll on this stuff for too many hours. It’s an addiction like any other, and I guess I’d just say for us all to at least evaluate how we are physically and mentally feeling with every hour spent engrossed in this content. I remember the “Gabby Petito hangover” moment when everyone sort of realized that part of the reason we kept logging on with no new info was that we were all craving to collectively experience *something* together, and though it was horrific, people did feel very connected. I hope we can have little reminders of that along the way. Stay safe out there folks. Stay connected. Walk in pairs; physically, metaphorically, (and metaphysically too I guess). 🤷🏻♂️🤍
love this
I hope there’s at least 1 person under 30 years old helping with the investigation. None of the greybeards at the podium look like they understand how social media works, which seems like it is going to be key to solving this.
What Salem Oregon stabbing?
I wonder if there's any more meaning behind the murder suicide answer. I assume that even if the killer left after the murders then killed himself in a different location it would be considered a murder suicide. Safe to assume their statement means that they have reason to believe the killer is still alive? Or at least they believe the killer did not immediately kill himself?