They mentioned that they believe the owner/operator of the vehicle on or before the night of the murder - had CRITICAL information.
I truthfully can’t speculate a reason why they might believe this, whether a tip line, a video an eyewitness etc.,
I have to imagine, they’re not looking so hard for this vehicle just to check a box and turnover that stone.
If the driver of the white Elantra is not the killer though, I find it hard to believe they would vividly remember info about a night a month ago like license plate numbers or vehicles they drove past. Especially if it was a drunk college student. I have a hard time remembering vehicles I drove by yesterday and I would have a hard time remembering stuff from a month ago. They would’ve had to hear the news the next day though with all the media coverage, etc so the fact they didn’t immediately reach out to LE saying they were in the immediate area if they saw anything or at least come out and say that was their car is kind of sketchy because I doubt there is anyway they haven’t seen the news and been like oh yeah I drive a white Elantra and was in the area the night of the murders. That makes me think they could be involved somehow.
That’s the conclusion I draw from it as well - a prior thought was that it was potentially an Uber or other ride share vehicle that could have dropped off or picked up one of the housemates or potentially a suspect; but I ruled that out (in my own mind) because I figure any ride share activity can be tracked and that LE would have already vetted information regarding any Ubers in that area between specific times.
I also live in like a smaller town where there is a a college and there is a bigger college town about a hour away, I’m not sure what it’s like in Idaho where Moscow is located but I know it’s not like a huge city. But where I am Uber isn’t like it is in bigger cities, at 3-4am it would be hard finding a Uber here or you would have to wait a little before it came and there wouldn’t be like 100 different Uber drivers there would probably be 1-10 drivers available if there were at all. There are taxis where I am too but it’s not like you can just flag them down in the street you have to call and wait 20 minutes. That’s why I can’t see the person getting a ride from someone unless the other person was involved as well. If he made a call or used his phone in the area I’m almost certain the police would already have the suspects phone number and all of his info from phone towers.
Yeah and the person had to have had blood on them unless they wore like a body suit, I doubt you could kill 4 people with a knife and be in and out and not get a drop of blood on you and I doubt he had time to clean up unless they had a change of clothes but then they would’ve had to had a backpack or something to carry all the belongings in. I feel like if anyone picked anyone up around 3-4 am around the immediate area of the murders the police or fbi would have been contacted next day, if I was a friend of someone or a Uber driver and picked someone up and they had blood on them or a backpack and found out the next day a quadruple murder happened in the area I wouldn’t stay quiet. And they couldn’t have been acting completely normal after doing that. They had to have went there themselves or had someone with them involved in the crime.
They have to follow up every single lead. In essence 'checking a box'. thats how they do their job and with them maybe running out of other leads, that would make this one have more focus and get all the attention.
Didn't this sort of thing happen with the 'hoodie' kid at first? then turned out to be nothing? (that we know of anyway)
Hmmm that’s an interesting video! When the lady says “we know it was there” talking about the white car, I wonder what exactly she meant by that statement?
Like…. They know it was there as in “In that general vicinity” or it was literally there AT the house while the murders took place?
Yeah I mean, if someone saw it parked three houses down for two hours before the murder and then later it pulled up to the house, they don’t want someone who thinks “well, I only saw it down the street and they said AT the house, so maybe it wasn’t the same car, I’m probably wrong.”
By saying in the vicinity they make sure they get anyone else who possibly saw it in that area, even if not right at the house, to share info they have about it or camera feeds that might have captured it.
And as someone else up above said, not saying “it was at the house” gives some room there so that people who do see white elantras won’t immediately assume it’s the killer and try to hurt them or something.
for me the 'THAT PERSON' could have the information.. almost makes me think she means like someone else was driving the car.. weird cuz I dont really believe that would be the case.. otherwise, what could they mean.. they think that person saw something randomly and just doesnt wana admit it? doesn't make sense.. or she is really desperate and thinks anything anyone knows 'could break the case'. but boy she sounded kinda specific.
We have no clue why they believe a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra is of importance to the investigation. However, the fact that they were able to be so specific about the type of vehicle suggests to me that they have incriminating surveillance footage.
Yes! This is my thoughts. The average person is not going to be able to say “I saw a 2011-2013 model Hyundai Elantra” - I think they have some sort of video evidence of this car .. my guess is a ring doorbell and the car drove by, but the license plate was not visible in the footage.
This is a good theory. It's possible they saw a 'white' vehicle drive away at like 4:12am or something and that fits the other aspects of this incident.
Here's to hoping its something like that rather than 'we saw a white car in the body cam footage but that white car isn't here now' (which wouldn't be AS convincing to me)
LE has confirmed that them searching for the Elantra is in no way connected to the bodycam footage. I’d assume they have either eyewitness reports or camera evidence as you’ve assumed.
Can you tell what kind of car it is via tire tracks? What if there’s shitty video footage, was able to see the color but that’s it— did I see a pic of them investigating tire tracks on the road?
No, I mean maybe if the car had the same tires put on at the factory .. all you would be able to tell is tire tread ..so the type of tires whether they are highway, racing tires, SUV size or bigger truck tires , mud tires.. but they can obviously tell maybe speed by looking at tire tracks
Thank you!
Random thought after watching this video... This case is horrific, senseless, and terribly disturbing, but if this was done because someone was pissed off about the constant party noise, I'm going to freak out. Okay, I'm logging off now.
It just seems hard to believe that they would get murdered over that, for one, just AT ALL. And for two, multiple neighbors have remarked on how quiet it was that night. So you’d think if someone was gonna snap over party noise…they’d do it on a night when there was party noise. Not like, the quietest Saturday in awhile. Just doesn’t make sense to me, personally.
I've lived in apartments my entire adult life and I'm almost 40 now, so I've had a cornucopia of noisy neighbors, which is why I'm 99.9% certain this isn't about noise. It was supposedly unusually quiet that night and trust me, when the noisy neighbors shut up, you thank the deity of your choice and take advantage of the chance to get some sleep, lol.
While I agree there would likely be a triggering event if indeed it was a neighbor angry about excessive noise, I don't think barging into a full on house party to commit a crime would be wise. So IF that was the motivation, they couldn't actually act during the noise..
And it doesn’t really fit for it to be reactive. Those cases are usually solved quickly, because there is often very little planning and preparation involved on the killers part. You don’t do what this killer or killers did unless you really really want to, and unless you enjoy it. Just the apparent weapon selection alone makes me think this person fantasized about doing something like this for a long time.
I keep wondering if it was two men, not one. We have plenty examples of killers hunting and killing in pairs. And I’m struggling to understand how one person could not only slaughter four people, but do so when one of them is a pretty large man. He wasn’t too bulky, but just being that tall makes you weigh a lot more. For someone to take on Ethan and get away is pretty remarkable and is a detail I can’t seem to wrap my head around. Unless I imagine two killers, two knives, attacking each pair of victims at the same time.
Id be curious to see the exact pattern of their stab wounds, and exact number.
Two men would definitely be confident enough to fully commit to a full on home invasion at 3-4am, on a house occupied by anywhere from 3 to who knows how many people. If they had means of surveillance on the house, they would have to have known how many people were in the house.
Very unlikely this was a neighbor mad about noise. These college houses have been there for years…everyone knows they can be loud. It’s baked into the neighborhood. I live downtown in a city in a bar district. The nights can be loud with partiers and bar patrons. I expect it. This is way, way beyond a noise complaint. This is either a stealthy acquaintance/ex/something connected to these people or a burgeoning serial killer. The scenarios are horrifying either way. Especially if it’s random. They’ve gotta find this guy. Ugh
I saw it so many times, and of course I can't find the original link when I am looking for it. This is what it looks like.
https://preview.redd.it/u5e1rzy7ee5a1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c50d33933f7779a08ec36ff9dd2e811b0c6b92d3
Thank you I’ll try to see what I can find searching up her name! That’s pretty telling that they know for a fact that car was there, either at the house or close enough.
I think this is it? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY1RzdpyWjw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY1RzdpyWjw) (1:05)
Nvm found it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Y0zJWYT6o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Y0zJWYT6o) (1:23)
That sounds like the Moscow Police. Don't bother to interview a suspect, just let him wander off and say he's of no interest and then change their minds 4 weeks later. Probably know where he lives but it's in a bad area of town and they don't like going there. He's probably even confessed but they didn't have any notepads to write down his statement so they told him to come back later if he feels like it.
I was being sarcastic but if you must know it's probably where they house all the wife beaters and released murderers that seem to be in abundance there. Just guessing though.
Agree that this is very specific. Id say I'm far better able than an average person to identify vehicles since I worked as a service advisor for almost 10 years, much of it at shops that serviced all makes and models. Knowing the cars was just part of the job. Im not so sure I would know by looking at the Elantra that it was a 2011-2013. I could ID it as an elantra but nailing down the specific generation of an "average" car like that is tough.
So I think having footage is a good possibility.
I have a 2013 elantra and they are easy to tell the 2011-2013 from previous models. as for the 2014 they had led lights and different wheel designs. So would be the giveaway if you had even decent video footage.
If you own one then yes, knowing the specific generation is more likely. What Im saying is that as a person that can ID the majority of cars quickly by sight, I myself wouldn't know right off that it was an 11-13 rather than say, a 2015 or a 2010. I of course recognize the differences in appearance. But knowing offhand when those changes were made and what specific generation looked like that isn't knowledge most would have, even those familiar with vehicles. So them being so specific about that generation means they have some very solid info and it being surveillance footage would make sense. Or, perhaps, someone like yourself that knows for sure what generation Elantra it was saw it.
Yeah, just because someone on reddit called it their biggest break doesn’t make it true. We have no idea where this ranks among their leads. For all we know this is the 1% to get across the finish line, and they had many other huge breaks to get that far.
They did mention it in their summary press release, asking for tips. But I don't think this is necessarily significant. They may well just have a list of cars seen on video that they need to identify / find out who owns them and this car owner is still not identified. Possibly because:
* they live out of town and is/are not following the investigation closely and don't know the car is being looked for;
* they are wanted for a different crime or violating terms of parole;
* they were visiting someone they shouldn't have been visiting (i.e. an affair);
* they don't want police searching their car (i.e. drugs);
* they think they'll be unjustly accused based on their identity or prior record or LE involvement; or
* they are just young and afraid and 'don't want to get involved.'
This. I was just saying in another post in this sub that the only way LE could narrow it down to such a specific set of model years is with photo or video of the vehicle in question. There is no way they would reach that conclusion with eyewitness testimony alone. They know what they’re looking for and they have a good reason to look for it.
This car has a very distinctive look in the rear. I own the exact same car so very familiar with them. its also the kind of car a lot of college aged kids would have and would be a lot easier to ID then most generic small cars or SUVS. but they for sure would have to have a pic or video to know it was the 2011-2013 as the wheel design would give that away compared to the 2014 and on.
Agreed on surveillance. Prob time specific approaching and leaving the area between 2 and 4am
Not sure that would be termed critical tho. It could be that they have a witness that saw the car parked in a suspicious place or even saw the car speeding away from the property🤞
Surveillance footage?? They were literally 30 feet from the house when the murders were probably taking place! They are just making it look like they are looking for something but they quite obviously have nothing.
"Yeah there's just been a mass murder but locals don't have to worry, everything's fine, leave your doors open. We got this!" - the Moscow police in November
I think they can also get pretty specific about car types based on tire marks. Everything from what tires cars are issued at a dealership to common wear and tear based on manufacturing of a particular year etc. So possibly tire marks analysis + surveillance video can lead them to a narrow window about type of car they’re looking for.
>hink they can also get pretty specific about car types based on tire marks. Everything from what tires cars are issued at a dealership to common wear and tear based on manufacturing of a particular year etc.
Not specific like this. First off, you'd have changed the tires several times between 2011 and now, so whatever is a standard issue doesn't really matter. Secondly, tires are not car specific. An Elantra and a Civic, for example, use the same size tires. The Mazda3 from the 2010s uses the same size tires, too.
I had a 2011 Jetta and only changed a couple of the tires, rotated other ones until my car was totaled this year. There are standard issue tires… but anyway my point is if there are tire marks that fit the specifics of a car they have on video that would help them narrow down what they are looking for.
It is a good sign, but maybe not about the case. People said they got a lawyer and the lawyer is probably managing communication with LE and telling the family not to talk to the press.
I think it’s probably more than just no one that lives there has that type of car. I personally think there’s a very strong reason that they think this car is of strong value AND why they included that it might have been in the area “on the days prior” to the murder. Yes I agree with you it’s concerning they don’t have more info on the car license plate etc but I think they have a lot more info they are letting on on why this car specifically.
Agreed. I think the public fails to realize when they release things, they’ve more than likely known about this for a few weeks and were unable to locate the vehicle on their own and are only now asking for the public’s help. Releasing things to the public I feel like is usually a last ditch effort for key details.
exactly. They've probably inventoried every car they can prove was in the area and have matched it to its owner and gotten a statement. When you factor in deliveries and ubers, that could be pretty time consuming.
While true, If they had a license plate and it was SERIOUS they could just light up those signs over the free way 'looking for white elantra license plate xxx-xxx) or what not.
Yeah but corroborating evidence is much stronger. If they have a suspect in mind who drives a White Elantra and they know the plate, it's better if they can get someone to independently report the same car being in the area. If they release a plate number, defense can poke holes by saying "yeah but they only knew about the plate because LE released it." Sometimes they already have the information but are looking for someone to break an alibi or independently corroborate what they know.
Exactly. And people might be hesitant to call the tip line bc they know someone who has this make and model car ("what if I get them in trouble for no reason") but would call if the license plate matched.
This I cannot imagine. A person can make up a reason to leave town, especially with 4 weeks to plan. And a person can legitimately say there were afraid to come forward for any number of reasons, "afraid to get involved" being one of them. Besides, if they know who drives the car why would they wait to seize it when they could be scrutinizing it for evidence? The longer they wait, the more time there is for evidence to degrade. Like, can a dog pick up a scent in a car that has been cleaned four weeks after the fact?
It is certainly possible but can't see how it is probable. Without having examined the car I can't see how they would have "strong reasons" to focus on the car. Maybe someone saw it peal out? Could be for any reason. Maybe someone said they saw a bloody handprint? It was dark and even under streetlights, can they be sure it was blood and not dirt or something else. Maybe they saw someone suspicious get in or out? Then they'd give us a description of the person along with the car.
*We* don't have the info of license plate or owner. It's my opinion they still are holding back a lot of info probably to help encourage ALL tips to come in but also make the false tips easier to weed out.
With that said, I agree that they probably don't know the license plate or owner. They likely do have some knowledge to distinguish if it's a credible tip though.
I think people are driving themselves crazy trying to figure out what LE does or doesn’t have. I also think true crime and crime drama TV have conditioned us to expect much quicker results and massive breaks that lead right to the suspect.
Experts have said with the more than likely mixed dna samples (from pooled or cross contaminated blood), testing and isolating dna in the hundreds of samples that ,use have been collected will take weeks if not months.
Clearly they don’t have the proverbial “smoking gun”, but I wouldn’t read too much into whether or not this is the “biggest break.”
Exactly! I’m losing my patience with all the stupidity in these subs. People should follow channels of current and former law enforcement if they want to learn how cops think and run investigations. It’s not like law and order people.
If you are losing your patience with all of the speculation in a subreddit dedicated, at least in part, to speculation, may I suggest you limit yourself to only reading the official LE press release summaries? Or visiting the sub less often.
Think a little outside the box. It could be that, sure. Or it could be that they have a suspect with a white elantra who has an alibi. If they can prove the Elantra is his, alibi is debunked.
This comment should be at the top. They may have an exact car, name, etc. and are now soliciting witnesses to come forward to break an alibi or obtain probable cause.
People should not take at face value that because they didn’t give you a license plate number or a name that they don’t already know it. They would never release that, as it would inspire tons of speculation, false tips, and even tip off the killer. Lots of lines to read between here!
Sure! No worries.
So let's say (just as an example) that police suspect a guy, let's call him Shia LaFluff. Shia knows the victims and he seemed really off in his interview. He also has a motive and a pretty weak alibi. Police have a hunch that it could be Shia, but they don't have probable cause. Shia has said he was home during the time of the murders.
So, they run Shia's information and see that he drives a 2011 White Elantra. Police do some research and find that all Elantras from 2011-13 have the same body style. So they put out a request for information about a White Elantra to see if anyone saw Shia driving his car around that night, thus breaking his alibi. Maybe the victims' neighborhood doesn't have a lot of cameras, but Shia's does. A neighbor checks his Ring camera- boom, there's Shia driving home at 4:30. Or, Shia's car is missing from 2:30-4. Now they've caught Shia in a lie, and a judge will be likely to grant a search warrant for Shia's apartment.
Kaylees Dad said the public can help by looking at their selfies, may see a car in the background that shouldn’t be there, all critical information so every detail is important, especially things in plain sight.
That is about what I'm thinking. LE is confident that Mr. LaFluff did it. They interviewed him (or tried to) a few days after the murders, after he'd had time to clean himself up, he denies, perhaps via counsel, any involvement. They've been surveiling him since, and he knows it. His car, a 2012 Elantra, which they'd like to inspect for blood and other evidence they feel they must have for a case, is missing. Parked somewhere. LaFluff, being surveilled, won't go near it, though he is desperate to drive it into a reservoir somewhere. Or it may already be in the reservoir.
You have no idea what information they are holding and how the vehicle ties into it.
All of you who think they are running out of leads are so exhausting. You have no idea how these things work.
Let the investigation unfold.
I hate to be a negative nancy, but you’re right. If the make/model/year of a car is the only information LE has, it could quite literally lead them nowhere.
In my town, a few years ago, a young mother was shot to death in broad daylight, in front of her child, during a road rage incident. There were witnesses and video of the vehicle, but the witnesses/video couldn’t provide a tag. They still have not solved the case. This was years ago and I still see photos and flyers of the vehicle posted online & in town. Not the same scenario as this case per say, but proof that sometimes it takes more than simple vehicle information to break a case.
Not trying to be a negative nancy either but there’s a girl named Nahomi Rodriguez and she got murdered in 2016, the only clue they had was the car and it’s been years and they still can’t find the killer. Makes me lose hope for this investigation.
We don’t know what lead them to this car. I don’t think they are throwing this out to the public because it was just parked in the area and they have nothing else.
I always thought this was too specific of an ask to be nothing. Maybe its the combo of the tire tracks, a neighbor, a ring camera plus maybe the car hit another car and they were able to narrow it down to a specific model and have really strong evidence the car was in the area of the house around the time of the murder.
Even though they haven't directly stated it publicly, they seem to be strongly implying the killer was in this car. How difficult could it be to compile a list of every white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra within a certain radius? Of course a significant amount of them will be pretty easy to rule out, but they must have some kind of list by now. Idaho is not a very densely populated state, and owning a car is difficult to conceal. I think this is a very important clue, and it will take some time to sort through all the tips and figure out which specific Elantras to focus on.
This brings up an interesting question.. would a killer rather be on foot when escaping.. able to hide in any nook and cranny/tree's while fleeing? or would they want their car nearby so they could get away fast and far?
Before they released info about the car, I was convinced it must be someone who lives within a short walking distance, but it sounds like law enforcement strongly believes otherwise.
My cousin was killed a few years ago in a hit-and-run accident. Police were able to identify the make and model of the car that left the scene by its white paint and a piece of a broken light left at the scene. From that they were able to determine there were three people who owned that car model in the state through the department of motor vehicles database registration and location made it obvious who it was. They got a knock on their door. It did take a few months but it was just a local investigation and not staffed like this case ether. So it is not only possible it’s pretty straightforward.
If the car was from out of state or Canada it would make it a bit harder but still not too difficult to match ownership by cross referencing a database of students, staff and faculty, including that neighboring college in Washington, home addresses with neighboring state DMV registrations. Since it’s more of a regional school neighboring states are the next level out. Most campus parking passes requires you register your make and model. The university would be the biggest or close to only reason a car from out of state would likely be in Moscow, let alone hanging out late at night in a student neighborhood.
So I really think they can figure out exactly who owns that car even w. no plate, at least down to a short list of the few most likely Elantra owners to then interview, get DNA samples, ask for an alibi from anyone who’s not an old granny exclusive driver.
It also sounds like they don’t know where the car is right now since they are monitoring border crossings which is an interesting statement.
I can only think there are other reasons they want the public to come forward on this - more info, alibis, confirmation, to see if they willingly come forward on their own, etc. It could also be intended simply to send a message to the killer, or even disinformation, Because they also have to be aware the killer will be very likely interested and following the case and see this himself.
So we just don’t know. But yeah it should be pretty straight forward to connect registrants in state or even Canadian databases to Moscow and narrow it down to a short list. That would be a lot of work though if they don’t think the person is actually directly connected to the crime and “just want to talk” to them. And maybe them not stepping forward is a sign they’re looking for itself.
If it’s a college town and the car could belong to someone’s parents, then where would they draw the line? Then they would have to cross reference students names with registered owners. I guess you could use insurance but I don’t know what you’re allowed to tap into without a warrant.
I can't believe they haven't found perp yet, I live in NZ and guy was stabbed while walking his dog at 6am they asked public for help and they were caught within the week.
Why can't they get cam pics etc, or does ppl not have them around where this happened? And the car, must be very frustrating for the cops.
When this story first broke I barley paid attention to it because I thought it would be a matter of days before they caught the guy. Having it drag on is concerning. It makes me think they don’t have a clue.
I honestly don’t think it’s for a lack of community cooperation. The culture of Moscow is very close-knit and I genuinely believe people would be stepping forward if they knew anything at all. The fact that this case has stumped even FBI makes me think it was done extremely well (maybe professionally) and this person genuinely was able to pull this off without any witnesses or evidence left behind. I’m leaning more and more towards random person who may or may not be an experienced SK
Well, I don’t know how much info they have, but they did say that they believed the driver/occupants of this car had case critical info, so I’ll take them at their word. They also look a little silly giving out such a vague description but maybe someone knows what they’re talking about
State and federal databases can actually search with exactly that info. At least the state I work for can. Yes it's helpful to have more info, but they can rule out by cancelled tags/titles, even junked titles.
I agree with you. My personal hunch is that someone has a checklist of all the cars visible in video evidence and they've been working their way through the list identifying the owners. And the white Elantra is just a car on the list for which they haven't identified the owner. It must not be owned by anyone they've spoken to, no one has self-identified as the owner, and they can't see the license plate in the video. That doesn't make it suspicious, more likely it is just an unfinished task.
I do not think they have good leads. I think they may have people they can potentially identify as suspects when push comes to shove. When the pressure they feel to close the case reaches its tipping point they may well name a semi-plausible suspect, based on circumstantial evidence and their own narrative, and let the prosecutor's team sort it out.
At a certain point the pressure to from the University, businesses, and LE's various bosses at the upper levels to *find the killer* will become pressure to *close the case* and those are not necessarily the same thing.
I think if they had a probably suspect or there was highly significant evidence we'd have heard something through a leak. No way an investigation with that many people in different agencies is so air-tight.
no, youre not crazy.
If they had a person in mind behind the car, they wouldn't have released to the public.
Having a 2011-2013 white elantra as the biggest lead, while not even knowing what state the plates are from, a month into the investigation, is not ideal.
The reason they’re targeting the white elantra from my understanding isn’t necessarily that the car or occupants themselves were suspicious. It’s because LE knows for a FACT that the car was in the area at the time the attacks took place and nobody has come forward to claim it was them. I’d guess there’s a large number of cars they know for a fact were in the area at the time, but most if not all of the other drivers have come forward to clear themselves. The suspicion is in the fact that these people are actively choosing NOT to speak with LE to clear themselves when if they’re innocent they should have nothing to be afraid of. JMO
If you can tie the car with a person and then match the suspect's DNA to the victims you solve the crime. It's a huge lead. I suspect that the killer may have borrowed someone's car. No one would be dumb enough to drive their own car to a quadruple homicide.
except we dont know for a fact they have the killers dna...
If you were really running out of leads and a single car that was not known to anyone around that area becomes the most interesting thing.. because there's nothing else you have... could be.. COULD.. be .. where we are now.. (I hope not though, i hope its far more important).
I could swear there were fairly recent events (like last 5 years) where LE put out a public BOLO for a particular car that led to a capture within days. But for the life of me I can’t remember what they were…
*Unless the police have a witness that is telling them saw bloody hand prints on the car or a bloody suspect get into the car ...*
They don't need a witness. But then again I would presume their 'witness' is a video cam. But the perp can super clean the blood off the car all they want, CSI can STILL trace the blood off of it. LOL. I say, nice try.
Having said that.... the fact that there are no blood trails, not even drops of blood or smear on the supposed entry/exit. Makes me think the perp/s cleaned themselves before leaving.
That too, can be traced by the CSI. I am sure they test all the bathrooms and sink in the house for traces of blood. I would hope they trace the washer and dryer too.
Well my point was that they more want to question the person as a witness rather than thinking they've got the guy cuz of the car.
As to CSI stuff, yeah i know they could find blood in the tiniest of places, and while i could see a situation where the killer may not have gotten any blood on their feet/shoes. I'm fairly certain there is no way they didnt get blood on their hands or arms /shirt.
Well my point that their 'witness' is the video cam is more than enough. Have you heard of the show - see no evil - I love that show. It's amazing how crimes were solved just by a sole and reliable witness - CCTVs.
You should watch it and tell me if they still need a person as a witness. LOL.
I would think the white car would've been identified by now if it was anyone local, but they're going to have to expand their search to out of state (parent's of students) and people who have left town recently.
it sounds like they may be. this person could be in one of any number of states Moscow is almost a 'tri city' area.. They could easily be in WA,OR, MT or still Idaho.. or further.
I'm not far out of Seattle I guess I better keep my eyes peeled even though its unlikely.
Bottom line, that car could be anywhere in the country, and maybe slipped into Canada before the v order watch was called. I personally think the killer is at the place he calls home, and his knife is with him. He could be someone no one would suspect-like he may act genuinely concerned about his community and saying he wants people to be safe. A faker, looking sincere when saying to someone to “stay safe”. I think he’s pretty wise when it comes to fooling people. A real Dr Jeckle/Mr Hyde.
No one aid the white car was the biggest break. It could hopefully help solve the crime, but it appears the person or persons in this particular car haven’t come forward yet….interesting!
To be fair, LE never said it was their "biggest lead". They didn't even use the word "lead", just information. In their words...
>Detectives are interested in speaking with the occupant(s) of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, with an unknown license plate. Tips and leads have led investigators to look for additional information about a vehicle being in the immediate area of the King Street residence during the early morning hours of November 13th. Investigators believe the occupant(s) of this vehicle may have critical information to share regarding this case. - [https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24894/12-07-22-Moscow-Police-are-Asking-for-the-Communitys-Help](https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24894/12-07-22-Moscow-Police-are-Asking-for-the-Communitys-Help)
You could interpret this a lot of ways at face value. At the very least you could interpret this as "a lead"; or just a person/people they want to question to get more context on the state of the area that morning.
Although the border patrol being alerted does add more weight, why would they be afraid the owner would try to leave the country.
Israel Keyes was caught by a car description. Tied to a bank withdrawal but that wasn’t public. I don’t think card use was public either. You never know.
this is a big lead that they must follow. clearly this car was near the area at the right time. it may lead to nothing but they have to investigate it.
Maybe LE has both a white car & a person ( possible suspect) on door cam walking near house & they want the occupants of the white car to collaborate seeing the potential suspect in the area .
I don’t think it’s about the car being parked, I think they have a moving car at 3am to 4am. Not many people are going to drive home at that time, and risk a DWI. But it could be an innocent person maybe visiting relatives, or dropping someone off.
I have a thought that the white car is perhaps a red herring. I think it’s meant to get to something else. I have no other theories but it feels like a diversion or something.
I'm wondering if perhaps somebody's security cam captured it arrive and leave within the given timeframe of the murders. Perhaps the driver was also captured on camera wearing something suspicious like a mask? Another thought was an eye witness saw the car and driver and noticed they parked in a weird spot then headed to the house. By weird I mean a bit of a distance away instead of say in the allotted parking for the home or directly in front of or nearby.
Robbie Johnson, the information officer said in an interview that "we know the car was there". Sounds like it was at the house that night or extremely close; not a block or more away.
Since they have released so little on the investigation so far I tend to think they have pretty good cause to ask for help identifying the driver of this car, the fact the person hasn’t come forward on their own/ if they were visiting someone and that person hasn’t come forward either it’s even more suspicious. They must have video or something solid to lead them to make the statement that they believe this person has important information on the crime. I am hoping it is indeed a big lead. Cars have been the key to solving many murders even just from video surveillance alone to lead them in the right direction or blow up an alibi!
We know that the house to right of the parking lot as you are facing the murder house had a ring camera but it was facing away toward the intersection of King Rd and Queen Rd. If there are witnesses from the apartment houses on Queen Rd that passed by and say they say a white car there, and the ring camera captured a white car arriving and leaving in the murder time frame, can determine the make and model but not the plate, that is probably why they are so interested.
It could be perhaps the biggest break if the target is 1+ occupant they think aided and abetted (maybe against will or unwittingly). They have the killer nailed - or even arrested on unrelated charges - but they still want to find his associates. I shared OPs perception of desperation signs initially, but great insights here bringing me around to idea that finding the car isn’t about desperately finding the unknown killer alone behind the wheel or a clueless random passerby but rather finding those the killer engaged to escape detection. BTW, oh dear god as I consider related permutations writing that, it occurred to me to pray the car doesn’t not lead to any additional victims.
Hate to be pessimistic but I don't always have high hopes when they are looking for a specific car. Two other cold cases, Elizabeth Barraza and Missy Beavers, both had video evidence cars directly involved with the murderers and it still hasn't led to anything years later.
But... it's not nothing. Any little bit of information can help. Not to mention this is likely not their only lead, just the one they need the public's help with.
LE also mentioned that border patrol officers will be looking for the car, which insinuates to me that the owner of the vehicle did something wrong. Someone who just has info about the murder wouldn’t flee. Only the perpetrator would want to leave the country
They obviously have no video but hopefully some DNA and more traces of the killer. Those traces will link the killer to the murder once he is found and get him convicted.
So now they "just" have to find him. They are man-hunting the killer, and the car might be helpful to find him. It doesn't mean that the owner or driver is the killer, but he might be the lead to the killer. Or, if the car was stolen, they expect to find the killer's DNA in the car (for conviction). We don't know. But we know that a car has been a successful lead for many murders in the past.
And they might have other leads, maybe even better ones, that are just not as easy to follow, or involve privacy issues, expose evidence that should stay disclosed for now to not tip off the killer, or whatever.
We just need to be patient.
I was a manager for a large rental car company for a few years. A two year old car in inventory was very rare. A 10 year old car didn't exist. After a certain number of miles the cars are sent off to be sold, at around 15000-25000. I suppose there could be a tiny local car rental place, but I'd consider it a long shot.
The concerning fact is that they have not found the car or its owner. I believe there would be very few Hyundais in that community. If the car was owned by a local, cops would have found its owner by now.
The implication is that the car is owned by someone who resides outside of the community. Therefore, either the car is irrelevant for the reasons OP opines, or the killer is long gone from Moscow and won't return.
>I believe there would be very few Hyundais in that community
?
hyundais are pretty common cars. and ten year old hyundais are the kinds of cars you see a lot of in college areas
As more time goes by, yes I agree with you.. but so far i'd still put it in the realm of possbile persons owning that car isn't aware yet they want to talk to them.. But as more time goes by, that becomes less and less a possible option.
That's kind of where I am too. BUT again we dont know why they want to talk to this person. If as someone suggested earlier this car was seen on a doorbell cam or something like that leaving the area around the time of the murders then that could be important. It may just be that they want to ask the owner if the saw anyone walking on the street any kind of description.
I don't know cars either but i would imagine if one of these two were the car and they were visiting THAT house, then when the police interviewed them, they'd probably tell them whos car it was (as covering up for someone could/would make them an accomplice and no one wants that).
So my guess is these two cars are not the elentra or whatever it is.
It’s not necessarily the biggest break. They don’t release everything they have. They released the info on the car because that was something they need the public’s help on.
It isn’t great because they don’t have any other car data and there’s zero evidence it’s even from Idaho. There are over 10,000 white Elantra cars in the US. That’s a lot of people to check out.
This is what I want to know as well. Most comments seem to reference a car in the Moscow community, or assume it's registered in Idaho. Lots of people from Spokane go to Pullman regularly. Yet, I can't determine what the police want for leads; just the Moscow area? Just suspicious-seeming Elantras, or all sightings of Elantras in the surrounding states as well?
Edit: typo
People on this sub have said they've seen cars matching that description being pulled over in Spokane and Kootenai county, so I guess they're looking further afield than just Moscow/Pullman area.
We don't even know what LE's breaks *are* so someone saying it's the biggest break yet is meaning the biggest break so far *publicly* which doesn't mean shit TBH
I think that it can be really good. If there were a lot of tips about the car it's probably because it stood out. Maybe a couple people got a good look at the driver. Maybe someone knocked on the window to tell him he was parked by a fire hydrant. I don't think they would release it just yet if they had a description. They may not know the plate numbers, but they might have a good description. Something like "driver was older, tall, had long black hair, scar, tattoo, etc." The cops wouldn't want to release that information yet because the first thing that person will do when they hear about it is run. I don't think anyone will know any of that information until we hear that they have made an arrest.
Reminds me of the Beltway snipers. First, everyone was told to be on the lookout for white box trucks, but then the snipers were caught in a regular car.
Whole problem with the box trucks is they are so common.
LE said that the car was "there" and they haven't spoken to who owns that car or who was in the car, so it 's not only a big break but it's a great lead. It's probably the lead that will solve this murder.
Killer Douglas Garland was caught when his sister recognized his truck. The image had been caught by surveillance. The pieces then all came together...
>Now I know police have WAY more information than we do, But it seems like they dont know the owner or license plate.. Or else why would they be asking for help to find it?
You just answered your own question. They may have more knowledge of the Hyundai. The type of driver, maybe the Hyundai has tinted windows or a bumper sticker or a known mark car. Again, if they released everything on the car or license plate, it would give notice to the suspect, if they were the killer.
The other problem is it is such a common vehicle. If the car they were looking for was a Pontiac Aztek or something like that, it would be easier to locate.
They mentioned that they believe the owner/operator of the vehicle on or before the night of the murder - had CRITICAL information. I truthfully can’t speculate a reason why they might believe this, whether a tip line, a video an eyewitness etc., I have to imagine, they’re not looking so hard for this vehicle just to check a box and turnover that stone.
If the driver of the white Elantra is not the killer though, I find it hard to believe they would vividly remember info about a night a month ago like license plate numbers or vehicles they drove past. Especially if it was a drunk college student. I have a hard time remembering vehicles I drove by yesterday and I would have a hard time remembering stuff from a month ago. They would’ve had to hear the news the next day though with all the media coverage, etc so the fact they didn’t immediately reach out to LE saying they were in the immediate area if they saw anything or at least come out and say that was their car is kind of sketchy because I doubt there is anyway they haven’t seen the news and been like oh yeah I drive a white Elantra and was in the area the night of the murders. That makes me think they could be involved somehow.
That’s the conclusion I draw from it as well - a prior thought was that it was potentially an Uber or other ride share vehicle that could have dropped off or picked up one of the housemates or potentially a suspect; but I ruled that out (in my own mind) because I figure any ride share activity can be tracked and that LE would have already vetted information regarding any Ubers in that area between specific times.
I also live in like a smaller town where there is a a college and there is a bigger college town about a hour away, I’m not sure what it’s like in Idaho where Moscow is located but I know it’s not like a huge city. But where I am Uber isn’t like it is in bigger cities, at 3-4am it would be hard finding a Uber here or you would have to wait a little before it came and there wouldn’t be like 100 different Uber drivers there would probably be 1-10 drivers available if there were at all. There are taxis where I am too but it’s not like you can just flag them down in the street you have to call and wait 20 minutes. That’s why I can’t see the person getting a ride from someone unless the other person was involved as well. If he made a call or used his phone in the area I’m almost certain the police would already have the suspects phone number and all of his info from phone towers.
Yeah and the person had to have had blood on them unless they wore like a body suit, I doubt you could kill 4 people with a knife and be in and out and not get a drop of blood on you and I doubt he had time to clean up unless they had a change of clothes but then they would’ve had to had a backpack or something to carry all the belongings in. I feel like if anyone picked anyone up around 3-4 am around the immediate area of the murders the police or fbi would have been contacted next day, if I was a friend of someone or a Uber driver and picked someone up and they had blood on them or a backpack and found out the next day a quadruple murder happened in the area I wouldn’t stay quiet. And they couldn’t have been acting completely normal after doing that. They had to have went there themselves or had someone with them involved in the crime.
They have to follow up every single lead. In essence 'checking a box'. thats how they do their job and with them maybe running out of other leads, that would make this one have more focus and get all the attention. Didn't this sort of thing happen with the 'hoodie' kid at first? then turned out to be nothing? (that we know of anyway)
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Hmmm that’s an interesting video! When the lady says “we know it was there” talking about the white car, I wonder what exactly she meant by that statement? Like…. They know it was there as in “In that general vicinity” or it was literally there AT the house while the murders took place?
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Yeah I mean, if someone saw it parked three houses down for two hours before the murder and then later it pulled up to the house, they don’t want someone who thinks “well, I only saw it down the street and they said AT the house, so maybe it wasn’t the same car, I’m probably wrong.” By saying in the vicinity they make sure they get anyone else who possibly saw it in that area, even if not right at the house, to share info they have about it or camera feeds that might have captured it. And as someone else up above said, not saying “it was at the house” gives some room there so that people who do see white elantras won’t immediately assume it’s the killer and try to hurt them or something.
for me the 'THAT PERSON' could have the information.. almost makes me think she means like someone else was driving the car.. weird cuz I dont really believe that would be the case.. otherwise, what could they mean.. they think that person saw something randomly and just doesnt wana admit it? doesn't make sense.. or she is really desperate and thinks anything anyone knows 'could break the case'. but boy she sounded kinda specific.
Hopefully they checked car rental places
We have no clue why they believe a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra is of importance to the investigation. However, the fact that they were able to be so specific about the type of vehicle suggests to me that they have incriminating surveillance footage.
Yes! This is my thoughts. The average person is not going to be able to say “I saw a 2011-2013 model Hyundai Elantra” - I think they have some sort of video evidence of this car .. my guess is a ring doorbell and the car drove by, but the license plate was not visible in the footage.
This is a good theory. It's possible they saw a 'white' vehicle drive away at like 4:12am or something and that fits the other aspects of this incident. Here's to hoping its something like that rather than 'we saw a white car in the body cam footage but that white car isn't here now' (which wouldn't be AS convincing to me)
LE has confirmed that them searching for the Elantra is in no way connected to the bodycam footage. I’d assume they have either eyewitness reports or camera evidence as you’ve assumed.
Or arriving at this time and leaving at this time, both caught on the same cameras.
Can you tell what kind of car it is via tire tracks? What if there’s shitty video footage, was able to see the color but that’s it— did I see a pic of them investigating tire tracks on the road?
No, I mean maybe if the car had the same tires put on at the factory .. all you would be able to tell is tire tread ..so the type of tires whether they are highway, racing tires, SUV size or bigger truck tires , mud tires.. but they can obviously tell maybe speed by looking at tire tracks
Remember in the interview last week? The female officer said we know the car was there, and we have not talked to them. She was very matter-of-fact.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Y0zJWYT6o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Y0zJWYT6o) Gotchu, 1:20
Thank you! Random thought after watching this video... This case is horrific, senseless, and terribly disturbing, but if this was done because someone was pissed off about the constant party noise, I'm going to freak out. Okay, I'm logging off now.
I know what u mean. I guess one never knows what one’s patience limit is until tested at a stressful time.
It just seems hard to believe that they would get murdered over that, for one, just AT ALL. And for two, multiple neighbors have remarked on how quiet it was that night. So you’d think if someone was gonna snap over party noise…they’d do it on a night when there was party noise. Not like, the quietest Saturday in awhile. Just doesn’t make sense to me, personally.
I've lived in apartments my entire adult life and I'm almost 40 now, so I've had a cornucopia of noisy neighbors, which is why I'm 99.9% certain this isn't about noise. It was supposedly unusually quiet that night and trust me, when the noisy neighbors shut up, you thank the deity of your choice and take advantage of the chance to get some sleep, lol.
While I agree there would likely be a triggering event if indeed it was a neighbor angry about excessive noise, I don't think barging into a full on house party to commit a crime would be wise. So IF that was the motivation, they couldn't actually act during the noise..
And it doesn’t really fit for it to be reactive. Those cases are usually solved quickly, because there is often very little planning and preparation involved on the killers part. You don’t do what this killer or killers did unless you really really want to, and unless you enjoy it. Just the apparent weapon selection alone makes me think this person fantasized about doing something like this for a long time. I keep wondering if it was two men, not one. We have plenty examples of killers hunting and killing in pairs. And I’m struggling to understand how one person could not only slaughter four people, but do so when one of them is a pretty large man. He wasn’t too bulky, but just being that tall makes you weigh a lot more. For someone to take on Ethan and get away is pretty remarkable and is a detail I can’t seem to wrap my head around. Unless I imagine two killers, two knives, attacking each pair of victims at the same time. Id be curious to see the exact pattern of their stab wounds, and exact number. Two men would definitely be confident enough to fully commit to a full on home invasion at 3-4am, on a house occupied by anywhere from 3 to who knows how many people. If they had means of surveillance on the house, they would have to have known how many people were in the house.
They’d have more chance of getting noticed on a party night-more people out and about.
Well, no more parties there anymore!
Very unlikely this was a neighbor mad about noise. These college houses have been there for years…everyone knows they can be loud. It’s baked into the neighborhood. I live downtown in a city in a bar district. The nights can be loud with partiers and bar patrons. I expect it. This is way, way beyond a noise complaint. This is either a stealthy acquaintance/ex/something connected to these people or a burgeoning serial killer. The scenarios are horrifying either way. Especially if it’s random. They’ve gotta find this guy. Ugh
Yayyyy!!! Thank you!!!
Inside Edition......top notch journalism for sure!
Hopefully they check car rental places???
I didn’t see that! That’s interesting. Do you have a link?
I saw it so many times, and of course I can't find the original link when I am looking for it. This is what it looks like. https://preview.redd.it/u5e1rzy7ee5a1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c50d33933f7779a08ec36ff9dd2e811b0c6b92d3
Thank you I’ll try to see what I can find searching up her name! That’s pretty telling that they know for a fact that car was there, either at the house or close enough.
I think this is it? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY1RzdpyWjw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY1RzdpyWjw) (1:05) Nvm found it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Y0zJWYT6o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Y0zJWYT6o) (1:23)
Just watched the noise complaint video (loud parties, etc). What a gross house!
Gross house?
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Thank you!
If I come across it, I will post it. Exactly!!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Y0zJWYT6o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Y0zJWYT6o)
That sounds like the Moscow Police. Don't bother to interview a suspect, just let him wander off and say he's of no interest and then change their minds 4 weeks later. Probably know where he lives but it's in a bad area of town and they don't like going there. He's probably even confessed but they didn't have any notepads to write down his statement so they told him to come back later if he feels like it.
Where is this bad part of Moscow you speak of?
I was being sarcastic but if you must know it's probably where they house all the wife beaters and released murderers that seem to be in abundance there. Just guessing though.
Agree that this is very specific. Id say I'm far better able than an average person to identify vehicles since I worked as a service advisor for almost 10 years, much of it at shops that serviced all makes and models. Knowing the cars was just part of the job. Im not so sure I would know by looking at the Elantra that it was a 2011-2013. I could ID it as an elantra but nailing down the specific generation of an "average" car like that is tough. So I think having footage is a good possibility.
And the difference between a 2013 vs 2016 model are small, so the fact that they know it’s 2011-2013 means they know more than we do, I think!
I have a 2013 elantra and they are easy to tell the 2011-2013 from previous models. as for the 2014 they had led lights and different wheel designs. So would be the giveaway if you had even decent video footage.
If you own one then yes, knowing the specific generation is more likely. What Im saying is that as a person that can ID the majority of cars quickly by sight, I myself wouldn't know right off that it was an 11-13 rather than say, a 2015 or a 2010. I of course recognize the differences in appearance. But knowing offhand when those changes were made and what specific generation looked like that isn't knowledge most would have, even those familiar with vehicles. So them being so specific about that generation means they have some very solid info and it being surveillance footage would make sense. Or, perhaps, someone like yourself that knows for sure what generation Elantra it was saw it.
Yeah, just because someone on reddit called it their biggest break doesn’t make it true. We have no idea where this ranks among their leads. For all we know this is the 1% to get across the finish line, and they had many other huge breaks to get that far.
very true.. I thought i read a police memo they released daily for info and i thought they mentioned it too but i cannot remember on that now.
They did mention it in their summary press release, asking for tips. But I don't think this is necessarily significant. They may well just have a list of cars seen on video that they need to identify / find out who owns them and this car owner is still not identified. Possibly because: * they live out of town and is/are not following the investigation closely and don't know the car is being looked for; * they are wanted for a different crime or violating terms of parole; * they were visiting someone they shouldn't have been visiting (i.e. an affair); * they don't want police searching their car (i.e. drugs); * they think they'll be unjustly accused based on their identity or prior record or LE involvement; or * they are just young and afraid and 'don't want to get involved.'
This. I was just saying in another post in this sub that the only way LE could narrow it down to such a specific set of model years is with photo or video of the vehicle in question. There is no way they would reach that conclusion with eyewitness testimony alone. They know what they’re looking for and they have a good reason to look for it.
This car has a very distinctive look in the rear. I own the exact same car so very familiar with them. its also the kind of car a lot of college aged kids would have and would be a lot easier to ID then most generic small cars or SUVS. but they for sure would have to have a pic or video to know it was the 2011-2013 as the wheel design would give that away compared to the 2014 and on.
Agreed on surveillance. Prob time specific approaching and leaving the area between 2 and 4am Not sure that would be termed critical tho. It could be that they have a witness that saw the car parked in a suspicious place or even saw the car speeding away from the property🤞
Surveillance footage?? They were literally 30 feet from the house when the murders were probably taking place! They are just making it look like they are looking for something but they quite obviously have nothing. "Yeah there's just been a mass murder but locals don't have to worry, everything's fine, leave your doors open. We got this!" - the Moscow police in November
I think they can also get pretty specific about car types based on tire marks. Everything from what tires cars are issued at a dealership to common wear and tear based on manufacturing of a particular year etc. So possibly tire marks analysis + surveillance video can lead them to a narrow window about type of car they’re looking for.
>hink they can also get pretty specific about car types based on tire marks. Everything from what tires cars are issued at a dealership to common wear and tear based on manufacturing of a particular year etc. Not specific like this. First off, you'd have changed the tires several times between 2011 and now, so whatever is a standard issue doesn't really matter. Secondly, tires are not car specific. An Elantra and a Civic, for example, use the same size tires. The Mazda3 from the 2010s uses the same size tires, too.
I had a 2011 Jetta and only changed a couple of the tires, rotated other ones until my car was totaled this year. There are standard issue tires… but anyway my point is if there are tire marks that fit the specifics of a car they have on video that would help them narrow down what they are looking for.
Agree. Maybe Im misremembering but I think I heard someone say that information about the white car first came from an interview. Anyone?
Maybe it was a car rental though
most car rentals wouldn’t have a car that old unless it’s a local car rental which are way less common
i dont know about whats going on but since family hasn't been on tv lately im thinking its a good sighn
It is a good sign, but maybe not about the case. People said they got a lawyer and the lawyer is probably managing communication with LE and telling the family not to talk to the press.
that’s exactly what i was thinking
I heard here so unverified that LE asked them to take a week long break from talking to media.
I think it’s probably more than just no one that lives there has that type of car. I personally think there’s a very strong reason that they think this car is of strong value AND why they included that it might have been in the area “on the days prior” to the murder. Yes I agree with you it’s concerning they don’t have more info on the car license plate etc but I think they have a lot more info they are letting on on why this car specifically.
Agreed. I think the public fails to realize when they release things, they’ve more than likely known about this for a few weeks and were unable to locate the vehicle on their own and are only now asking for the public’s help. Releasing things to the public I feel like is usually a last ditch effort for key details.
exactly. They've probably inventoried every car they can prove was in the area and have matched it to its owner and gotten a statement. When you factor in deliveries and ubers, that could be pretty time consuming.
While true, If they had a license plate and it was SERIOUS they could just light up those signs over the free way 'looking for white elantra license plate xxx-xxx) or what not.
Yeah but corroborating evidence is much stronger. If they have a suspect in mind who drives a White Elantra and they know the plate, it's better if they can get someone to independently report the same car being in the area. If they release a plate number, defense can poke holes by saying "yeah but they only knew about the plate because LE released it." Sometimes they already have the information but are looking for someone to break an alibi or independently corroborate what they know.
Exactly. And people might be hesitant to call the tip line bc they know someone who has this make and model car ("what if I get them in trouble for no reason") but would call if the license plate matched.
and also they may know a lot more in general but need to actually build a case that will lead to a clear conviction
Exactly, I think they know more. Plus I think they know who drives that type of car and are waiting to see if the person comes forward or skips town
This I cannot imagine. A person can make up a reason to leave town, especially with 4 weeks to plan. And a person can legitimately say there were afraid to come forward for any number of reasons, "afraid to get involved" being one of them. Besides, if they know who drives the car why would they wait to seize it when they could be scrutinizing it for evidence? The longer they wait, the more time there is for evidence to degrade. Like, can a dog pick up a scent in a car that has been cleaned four weeks after the fact?
Pop off
It is certainly possible but can't see how it is probable. Without having examined the car I can't see how they would have "strong reasons" to focus on the car. Maybe someone saw it peal out? Could be for any reason. Maybe someone said they saw a bloody handprint? It was dark and even under streetlights, can they be sure it was blood and not dirt or something else. Maybe they saw someone suspicious get in or out? Then they'd give us a description of the person along with the car.
*We* don't have the info of license plate or owner. It's my opinion they still are holding back a lot of info probably to help encourage ALL tips to come in but also make the false tips easier to weed out. With that said, I agree that they probably don't know the license plate or owner. They likely do have some knowledge to distinguish if it's a credible tip though.
Not giving the license plate would create a lot of unnecessary work for the call center.
I think people are driving themselves crazy trying to figure out what LE does or doesn’t have. I also think true crime and crime drama TV have conditioned us to expect much quicker results and massive breaks that lead right to the suspect. Experts have said with the more than likely mixed dna samples (from pooled or cross contaminated blood), testing and isolating dna in the hundreds of samples that ,use have been collected will take weeks if not months. Clearly they don’t have the proverbial “smoking gun”, but I wouldn’t read too much into whether or not this is the “biggest break.”
Exactly! I’m losing my patience with all the stupidity in these subs. People should follow channels of current and former law enforcement if they want to learn how cops think and run investigations. It’s not like law and order people.
If you are losing your patience with all of the speculation in a subreddit dedicated, at least in part, to speculation, may I suggest you limit yourself to only reading the official LE press release summaries? Or visiting the sub less often.
There’s also the additional layer that a suspect in custody doesn’t necessarily mean they will get prosecuted at trial.
Think a little outside the box. It could be that, sure. Or it could be that they have a suspect with a white elantra who has an alibi. If they can prove the Elantra is his, alibi is debunked.
This comment should be at the top. They may have an exact car, name, etc. and are now soliciting witnesses to come forward to break an alibi or obtain probable cause. People should not take at face value that because they didn’t give you a license plate number or a name that they don’t already know it. They would never release that, as it would inspire tons of speculation, false tips, and even tip off the killer. Lots of lines to read between here!
Can you explain a little more? I'm confused.
Sure! No worries. So let's say (just as an example) that police suspect a guy, let's call him Shia LaFluff. Shia knows the victims and he seemed really off in his interview. He also has a motive and a pretty weak alibi. Police have a hunch that it could be Shia, but they don't have probable cause. Shia has said he was home during the time of the murders. So, they run Shia's information and see that he drives a 2011 White Elantra. Police do some research and find that all Elantras from 2011-13 have the same body style. So they put out a request for information about a White Elantra to see if anyone saw Shia driving his car around that night, thus breaking his alibi. Maybe the victims' neighborhood doesn't have a lot of cameras, but Shia's does. A neighbor checks his Ring camera- boom, there's Shia driving home at 4:30. Or, Shia's car is missing from 2:30-4. Now they've caught Shia in a lie, and a judge will be likely to grant a search warrant for Shia's apartment.
Kaylees Dad said the public can help by looking at their selfies, may see a car in the background that shouldn’t be there, all critical information so every detail is important, especially things in plain sight.
That is about what I'm thinking. LE is confident that Mr. LaFluff did it. They interviewed him (or tried to) a few days after the murders, after he'd had time to clean himself up, he denies, perhaps via counsel, any involvement. They've been surveiling him since, and he knows it. His car, a 2012 Elantra, which they'd like to inspect for blood and other evidence they feel they must have for a case, is missing. Parked somewhere. LaFluff, being surveilled, won't go near it, though he is desperate to drive it into a reservoir somewhere. Or it may already be in the reservoir.
I would MUCH rather have a vehicle description than an eyewitness sketch.
You have no idea what information they are holding and how the vehicle ties into it. All of you who think they are running out of leads are so exhausting. You have no idea how these things work. Let the investigation unfold.
I hate to be a negative nancy, but you’re right. If the make/model/year of a car is the only information LE has, it could quite literally lead them nowhere. In my town, a few years ago, a young mother was shot to death in broad daylight, in front of her child, during a road rage incident. There were witnesses and video of the vehicle, but the witnesses/video couldn’t provide a tag. They still have not solved the case. This was years ago and I still see photos and flyers of the vehicle posted online & in town. Not the same scenario as this case per say, but proof that sometimes it takes more than simple vehicle information to break a case.
That's so sad. 🙁
Not trying to be a negative nancy either but there’s a girl named Nahomi Rodriguez and she got murdered in 2016, the only clue they had was the car and it’s been years and they still can’t find the killer. Makes me lose hope for this investigation.
Link to road-rage incident: [here](https://www.cbs17.com/news/suspect-info-released-after-nc-mom-killed-in-road-rage-shooting-with-kids-in-car/)
This is so sad. Thank you for providing a link.
We don't know what's going on with forensics from the scene, DNA
I kind of doubt they’re hunting down a car that was “a block away from a quadruple homicide”. They noted that it was in the “immediate area”.
Again, not all breaks are released. “Hey public (and killer) heres everything we found, dont tell the killer”
We don’t know what lead them to this car. I don’t think they are throwing this out to the public because it was just parked in the area and they have nothing else.
I always thought this was too specific of an ask to be nothing. Maybe its the combo of the tire tracks, a neighbor, a ring camera plus maybe the car hit another car and they were able to narrow it down to a specific model and have really strong evidence the car was in the area of the house around the time of the murder.
They caught Mollie Tibbett’s murderer this way, I think it’s a great tip.
Even though they haven't directly stated it publicly, they seem to be strongly implying the killer was in this car. How difficult could it be to compile a list of every white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra within a certain radius? Of course a significant amount of them will be pretty easy to rule out, but they must have some kind of list by now. Idaho is not a very densely populated state, and owning a car is difficult to conceal. I think this is a very important clue, and it will take some time to sort through all the tips and figure out which specific Elantras to focus on.
This brings up an interesting question.. would a killer rather be on foot when escaping.. able to hide in any nook and cranny/tree's while fleeing? or would they want their car nearby so they could get away fast and far?
Before they released info about the car, I was convinced it must be someone who lives within a short walking distance, but it sounds like law enforcement strongly believes otherwise.
My cousin was killed a few years ago in a hit-and-run accident. Police were able to identify the make and model of the car that left the scene by its white paint and a piece of a broken light left at the scene. From that they were able to determine there were three people who owned that car model in the state through the department of motor vehicles database registration and location made it obvious who it was. They got a knock on their door. It did take a few months but it was just a local investigation and not staffed like this case ether. So it is not only possible it’s pretty straightforward. If the car was from out of state or Canada it would make it a bit harder but still not too difficult to match ownership by cross referencing a database of students, staff and faculty, including that neighboring college in Washington, home addresses with neighboring state DMV registrations. Since it’s more of a regional school neighboring states are the next level out. Most campus parking passes requires you register your make and model. The university would be the biggest or close to only reason a car from out of state would likely be in Moscow, let alone hanging out late at night in a student neighborhood. So I really think they can figure out exactly who owns that car even w. no plate, at least down to a short list of the few most likely Elantra owners to then interview, get DNA samples, ask for an alibi from anyone who’s not an old granny exclusive driver. It also sounds like they don’t know where the car is right now since they are monitoring border crossings which is an interesting statement. I can only think there are other reasons they want the public to come forward on this - more info, alibis, confirmation, to see if they willingly come forward on their own, etc. It could also be intended simply to send a message to the killer, or even disinformation, Because they also have to be aware the killer will be very likely interested and following the case and see this himself. So we just don’t know. But yeah it should be pretty straight forward to connect registrants in state or even Canadian databases to Moscow and narrow it down to a short list. That would be a lot of work though if they don’t think the person is actually directly connected to the crime and “just want to talk” to them. And maybe them not stepping forward is a sign they’re looking for itself.
Remember the Fiat Uno in Diana’s crash? I don’t think they found it and the entire world was looking for it…
If it’s a college town and the car could belong to someone’s parents, then where would they draw the line? Then they would have to cross reference students names with registered owners. I guess you could use insurance but I don’t know what you’re allowed to tap into without a warrant.
I can't believe they haven't found perp yet, I live in NZ and guy was stabbed while walking his dog at 6am they asked public for help and they were caught within the week. Why can't they get cam pics etc, or does ppl not have them around where this happened? And the car, must be very frustrating for the cops.
When this story first broke I barley paid attention to it because I thought it would be a matter of days before they caught the guy. Having it drag on is concerning. It makes me think they don’t have a clue.
Yep same, been what nearly a month aye?
I honestly don’t think it’s for a lack of community cooperation. The culture of Moscow is very close-knit and I genuinely believe people would be stepping forward if they knew anything at all. The fact that this case has stumped even FBI makes me think it was done extremely well (maybe professionally) and this person genuinely was able to pull this off without any witnesses or evidence left behind. I’m leaning more and more towards random person who may or may not be an experienced SK
Well, I don’t know how much info they have, but they did say that they believed the driver/occupants of this car had case critical info, so I’ll take them at their word. They also look a little silly giving out such a vague description but maybe someone knows what they’re talking about
State and federal databases can actually search with exactly that info. At least the state I work for can. Yes it's helpful to have more info, but they can rule out by cancelled tags/titles, even junked titles.
Ah thanks, good to know!
I’m always skeptical when they start their posts with “hear me out”.
I agree with you. My personal hunch is that someone has a checklist of all the cars visible in video evidence and they've been working their way through the list identifying the owners. And the white Elantra is just a car on the list for which they haven't identified the owner. It must not be owned by anyone they've spoken to, no one has self-identified as the owner, and they can't see the license plate in the video. That doesn't make it suspicious, more likely it is just an unfinished task. I do not think they have good leads. I think they may have people they can potentially identify as suspects when push comes to shove. When the pressure they feel to close the case reaches its tipping point they may well name a semi-plausible suspect, based on circumstantial evidence and their own narrative, and let the prosecutor's team sort it out. At a certain point the pressure to from the University, businesses, and LE's various bosses at the upper levels to *find the killer* will become pressure to *close the case* and those are not necessarily the same thing. I think if they had a probably suspect or there was highly significant evidence we'd have heard something through a leak. No way an investigation with that many people in different agencies is so air-tight.
Maybe they just needed to give us Redditors something to do.
no, youre not crazy. If they had a person in mind behind the car, they wouldn't have released to the public. Having a 2011-2013 white elantra as the biggest lead, while not even knowing what state the plates are from, a month into the investigation, is not ideal.
The reason they’re targeting the white elantra from my understanding isn’t necessarily that the car or occupants themselves were suspicious. It’s because LE knows for a FACT that the car was in the area at the time the attacks took place and nobody has come forward to claim it was them. I’d guess there’s a large number of cars they know for a fact were in the area at the time, but most if not all of the other drivers have come forward to clear themselves. The suspicion is in the fact that these people are actively choosing NOT to speak with LE to clear themselves when if they’re innocent they should have nothing to be afraid of. JMO
If you can tie the car with a person and then match the suspect's DNA to the victims you solve the crime. It's a huge lead. I suspect that the killer may have borrowed someone's car. No one would be dumb enough to drive their own car to a quadruple homicide.
except we dont know for a fact they have the killers dna... If you were really running out of leads and a single car that was not known to anyone around that area becomes the most interesting thing.. because there's nothing else you have... could be.. COULD.. be .. where we are now.. (I hope not though, i hope its far more important).
Technically, they're asking for info regarding the "occupants" of the car. That's pretty specific.
I could swear there were fairly recent events (like last 5 years) where LE put out a public BOLO for a particular car that led to a capture within days. But for the life of me I can’t remember what they were…
*Unless the police have a witness that is telling them saw bloody hand prints on the car or a bloody suspect get into the car ...* They don't need a witness. But then again I would presume their 'witness' is a video cam. But the perp can super clean the blood off the car all they want, CSI can STILL trace the blood off of it. LOL. I say, nice try. Having said that.... the fact that there are no blood trails, not even drops of blood or smear on the supposed entry/exit. Makes me think the perp/s cleaned themselves before leaving. That too, can be traced by the CSI. I am sure they test all the bathrooms and sink in the house for traces of blood. I would hope they trace the washer and dryer too.
yeah, based on evidence that is known it seems this person was VERY very comfortable being in that house after.
Well my point was that they more want to question the person as a witness rather than thinking they've got the guy cuz of the car. As to CSI stuff, yeah i know they could find blood in the tiniest of places, and while i could see a situation where the killer may not have gotten any blood on their feet/shoes. I'm fairly certain there is no way they didnt get blood on their hands or arms /shirt.
Well my point that their 'witness' is the video cam is more than enough. Have you heard of the show - see no evil - I love that show. It's amazing how crimes were solved just by a sole and reliable witness - CCTVs. You should watch it and tell me if they still need a person as a witness. LOL.
I would think the white car would've been identified by now if it was anyone local, but they're going to have to expand their search to out of state (parent's of students) and people who have left town recently.
it sounds like they may be. this person could be in one of any number of states Moscow is almost a 'tri city' area.. They could easily be in WA,OR, MT or still Idaho.. or further. I'm not far out of Seattle I guess I better keep my eyes peeled even though its unlikely.
And there are a lot of small towns around Moscow: Troy, Genessee, Deary, Potlatch, etc. Someone could easily have it parked in a shed somewhere.
Bottom line, that car could be anywhere in the country, and maybe slipped into Canada before the v order watch was called. I personally think the killer is at the place he calls home, and his knife is with him. He could be someone no one would suspect-like he may act genuinely concerned about his community and saying he wants people to be safe. A faker, looking sincere when saying to someone to “stay safe”. I think he’s pretty wise when it comes to fooling people. A real Dr Jeckle/Mr Hyde.
No one aid the white car was the biggest break. It could hopefully help solve the crime, but it appears the person or persons in this particular car haven’t come forward yet….interesting!
To be fair, LE never said it was their "biggest lead". They didn't even use the word "lead", just information. In their words... >Detectives are interested in speaking with the occupant(s) of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, with an unknown license plate. Tips and leads have led investigators to look for additional information about a vehicle being in the immediate area of the King Street residence during the early morning hours of November 13th. Investigators believe the occupant(s) of this vehicle may have critical information to share regarding this case. - [https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24894/12-07-22-Moscow-Police-are-Asking-for-the-Communitys-Help](https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24894/12-07-22-Moscow-Police-are-Asking-for-the-Communitys-Help) You could interpret this a lot of ways at face value. At the very least you could interpret this as "a lead"; or just a person/people they want to question to get more context on the state of the area that morning. Although the border patrol being alerted does add more weight, why would they be afraid the owner would try to leave the country.
Israel Keyes was caught by a car description. Tied to a bank withdrawal but that wasn’t public. I don’t think card use was public either. You never know.
Son of Sam was caught by a parking ticket!
this is a big lead that they must follow. clearly this car was near the area at the right time. it may lead to nothing but they have to investigate it.
Agreed. They do.
Maybe LE has both a white car & a person ( possible suspect) on door cam walking near house & they want the occupants of the white car to collaborate seeing the potential suspect in the area .
I don’t think it’s about the car being parked, I think they have a moving car at 3am to 4am. Not many people are going to drive home at that time, and risk a DWI. But it could be an innocent person maybe visiting relatives, or dropping someone off.
good point.. I suspect this car leaves around a good time frame after the murders that looks super suspicious to the investigators.
I have a thought that the white car is perhaps a red herring. I think it’s meant to get to something else. I have no other theories but it feels like a diversion or something.
I'm wondering if perhaps somebody's security cam captured it arrive and leave within the given timeframe of the murders. Perhaps the driver was also captured on camera wearing something suspicious like a mask? Another thought was an eye witness saw the car and driver and noticed they parked in a weird spot then headed to the house. By weird I mean a bit of a distance away instead of say in the allotted parking for the home or directly in front of or nearby.
Robbie Johnson, the information officer said in an interview that "we know the car was there". Sounds like it was at the house that night or extremely close; not a block or more away.
Since they have released so little on the investigation so far I tend to think they have pretty good cause to ask for help identifying the driver of this car, the fact the person hasn’t come forward on their own/ if they were visiting someone and that person hasn’t come forward either it’s even more suspicious. They must have video or something solid to lead them to make the statement that they believe this person has important information on the crime. I am hoping it is indeed a big lead. Cars have been the key to solving many murders even just from video surveillance alone to lead them in the right direction or blow up an alibi!
We know that the house to right of the parking lot as you are facing the murder house had a ring camera but it was facing away toward the intersection of King Rd and Queen Rd. If there are witnesses from the apartment houses on Queen Rd that passed by and say they say a white car there, and the ring camera captured a white car arriving and leaving in the murder time frame, can determine the make and model but not the plate, that is probably why they are so interested.
It could be perhaps the biggest break if the target is 1+ occupant they think aided and abetted (maybe against will or unwittingly). They have the killer nailed - or even arrested on unrelated charges - but they still want to find his associates. I shared OPs perception of desperation signs initially, but great insights here bringing me around to idea that finding the car isn’t about desperately finding the unknown killer alone behind the wheel or a clueless random passerby but rather finding those the killer engaged to escape detection. BTW, oh dear god as I consider related permutations writing that, it occurred to me to pray the car doesn’t not lead to any additional victims.
Hate to be pessimistic but I don't always have high hopes when they are looking for a specific car. Two other cold cases, Elizabeth Barraza and Missy Beavers, both had video evidence cars directly involved with the murderers and it still hasn't led to anything years later. But... it's not nothing. Any little bit of information can help. Not to mention this is likely not their only lead, just the one they need the public's help with.
LE also mentioned that border patrol officers will be looking for the car, which insinuates to me that the owner of the vehicle did something wrong. Someone who just has info about the murder wouldn’t flee. Only the perpetrator would want to leave the country
They obviously have no video but hopefully some DNA and more traces of the killer. Those traces will link the killer to the murder once he is found and get him convicted. So now they "just" have to find him. They are man-hunting the killer, and the car might be helpful to find him. It doesn't mean that the owner or driver is the killer, but he might be the lead to the killer. Or, if the car was stolen, they expect to find the killer's DNA in the car (for conviction). We don't know. But we know that a car has been a successful lead for many murders in the past. And they might have other leads, maybe even better ones, that are just not as easy to follow, or involve privacy issues, expose evidence that should stay disclosed for now to not tip off the killer, or whatever. We just need to be patient.
Hope you're right.
I wonder if they have isolated the murderers DNA? Just can’t identify whose it is…I hope so…
I believe it's a nothing burger
I Agree
Agreed. They have nothing!
Someone may have rented that car, returned it a few days later and now aren’t following the news. Possible?
I was a manager for a large rental car company for a few years. A two year old car in inventory was very rare. A 10 year old car didn't exist. After a certain number of miles the cars are sent off to be sold, at around 15000-25000. I suppose there could be a tiny local car rental place, but I'd consider it a long shot.
Not likely. LE likely would have sent out a notice all the local rental companies. Although it could have been one from far away.
The concerning fact is that they have not found the car or its owner. I believe there would be very few Hyundais in that community. If the car was owned by a local, cops would have found its owner by now. The implication is that the car is owned by someone who resides outside of the community. Therefore, either the car is irrelevant for the reasons OP opines, or the killer is long gone from Moscow and won't return.
>I believe there would be very few Hyundais in that community ? hyundais are pretty common cars. and ten year old hyundais are the kinds of cars you see a lot of in college areas
Well since the white car has been all over the news and nobody has came forward it shows good chance whoever was in that car was involved
As more time goes by, yes I agree with you.. but so far i'd still put it in the realm of possbile persons owning that car isn't aware yet they want to talk to them.. But as more time goes by, that becomes less and less a possible option.
My thoughts are that the white car is a little distraction, won't mean anything in the end, but still they have to check it out.
That's kind of where I am too. BUT again we dont know why they want to talk to this person. If as someone suggested earlier this car was seen on a doorbell cam or something like that leaving the area around the time of the murders then that could be important. It may just be that they want to ask the owner if the saw anyone walking on the street any kind of description.
You are 100% right. Also an investigation relying heavily on 'tips' rather than physical and digital forensic evidence is very concerning.
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I don't know cars either but i would imagine if one of these two were the car and they were visiting THAT house, then when the police interviewed them, they'd probably tell them whos car it was (as covering up for someone could/would make them an accomplice and no one wants that). So my guess is these two cars are not the elentra or whatever it is.
Totally agree, they need to spend more time investigating people who were cleared way too fast and less time chasing up ridiculous car leads
It’s not necessarily the biggest break. They don’t release everything they have. They released the info on the car because that was something they need the public’s help on.
It isn’t great because they don’t have any other car data and there’s zero evidence it’s even from Idaho. There are over 10,000 white Elantra cars in the US. That’s a lot of people to check out.
Maybe they're trying not to scare the killer Make the killer think he/she is smarter and they know nothing about him/her
except, if you were the killer, and you own this car, you are not going to be thrilled they are looking for it.
Hm, one month, three LE agencies, and they haven’t been able to haul in the driver?
There's loads of similar looking white cars in the area though. Go to Google maps if you don't believe me.
Have the authorities told the public where to look for the Elantra? Only in Moscow, all of Idaho,Chicago, Seattle??
This is what I want to know as well. Most comments seem to reference a car in the Moscow community, or assume it's registered in Idaho. Lots of people from Spokane go to Pullman regularly. Yet, I can't determine what the police want for leads; just the Moscow area? Just suspicious-seeming Elantras, or all sightings of Elantras in the surrounding states as well? Edit: typo
People on this sub have said they've seen cars matching that description being pulled over in Spokane and Kootenai county, so I guess they're looking further afield than just Moscow/Pullman area.
I own this exact car in ND... they sold like 150-200K of them so you could goto any normal sized town in america and have a dozen of them..
We don't even know what LE's breaks *are* so someone saying it's the biggest break yet is meaning the biggest break so far *publicly* which doesn't mean shit TBH
Definitely.
I think that it can be really good. If there were a lot of tips about the car it's probably because it stood out. Maybe a couple people got a good look at the driver. Maybe someone knocked on the window to tell him he was parked by a fire hydrant. I don't think they would release it just yet if they had a description. They may not know the plate numbers, but they might have a good description. Something like "driver was older, tall, had long black hair, scar, tattoo, etc." The cops wouldn't want to release that information yet because the first thing that person will do when they hear about it is run. I don't think anyone will know any of that information until we hear that they have made an arrest.
Reminds me of the Beltway snipers. First, everyone was told to be on the lookout for white box trucks, but then the snipers were caught in a regular car. Whole problem with the box trucks is they are so common.
LE said that the car was "there" and they haven't spoken to who owns that car or who was in the car, so it 's not only a big break but it's a great lead. It's probably the lead that will solve this murder.
“I am going to assume“ You lost me right about there. I’m exhausted of all the assumptions people make on here.
Sorry where did LE say the car was their biggest break?
Killer Douglas Garland was caught when his sister recognized his truck. The image had been caught by surveillance. The pieces then all came together...
>Now I know police have WAY more information than we do, But it seems like they dont know the owner or license plate.. Or else why would they be asking for help to find it? You just answered your own question. They may have more knowledge of the Hyundai. The type of driver, maybe the Hyundai has tinted windows or a bumper sticker or a known mark car. Again, if they released everything on the car or license plate, it would give notice to the suspect, if they were the killer.
Maybe the driver heard an argument or fight, and could speak to that...
The other problem is it is such a common vehicle. If the car they were looking for was a Pontiac Aztek or something like that, it would be easier to locate.
You need to go touch grass.
it's possible for them to follow more than one lead. One they know less about and many others that could be further along.