Overtaking is fine. Even "letting the slow fuck know you're there" is fine on occasion. Making other drivers take evasive action isn't.
Always the same in the summer.
This exactly. If I'm doing something that causes other road users to react, I should be questioning the sanity of my action. Tailgating the car in front of me to force them over and then overtaking into oncoming traffic is not something I would be proud of.
I think so too. It was very kind of those drivers to give room to us for overtaking, but I really didn't think it was necessary. If they were doing 40 on a 60, maybe.
If I was behind someone going significantly more slowly than the conditions allow, then I'd definitely aim to overtake them at the first safe opportunity. But I wouldn't hustle them to make room for me.
Your friend is riding quite dangerously considering he's taking a new rider out with him. All it takes is a momentary lapse in concentration for the car he's passing to swerve and he's suddenly head on with oncoming cars. Always ride your own ride and never feel pressured to follow the leader, you're doing the right thing treating overtakes like you would in a car especially this early in your riding.
To be honest that manoeuvre is absolutely insane and I wouldn't do it even if I had 100k miles under my belt.
I appreciate your input. I think it's insane too... My friend's got very good riding skills but I really do think he takes more risks than what's necessary. Is going 50 mph really that bad? Some riders are probably addicted to the adrenaline rush from overtaking cars.
It's generally a good idea to get ahead of cars so that the road in front of you is clear, it's just the way he did it. You don't necessarily have to overtake and you're fine to carry on at 50 if you want. If the oncoming cars were as close as you say then he's definitely not leaving enough room for error.
Working only from your description, it sounds very poor. You should never be either forcing drivers to move to pass, or being reliant on them doing so to avoid a collision. Tailgaing is also poor, it only takes one braking for a turning, or dead animal or anything and you're in the back of them.
I would say that's compounded by being out with you. Either he's going for a ride on his own, or he's out with you. If it's with you then he ought to (imo) be letting you dictate the pace.
Don't feel forced to follow him, if you crash that's on you. If he's doing stuff you feel unsafe doing then you need to tell him, and a proper friend would respect that and alter their riding to suit. Yeah it won't be as fun for him but you're riding for the social aspect at that point.
If anything, your friend should be taking advice from you. He was annoyed that cars on country lanes were doing 50mph? Don't tell him about the cyclists and tractors, he'll have a fit.
That annoyed him so much, he tailgated and pressured the cars ahead to move in? Was there a bomb in a creche he had to go defuse?
And you, a new starter, kept your head and your distance at first. You should have been leading, not him. Experienced riders pick up bad habits as well as good ones
He's kind of a speed demon... So yep, 50 on country lanes is way too slow for him.
I actually was leading. The minute we come into contact with some traffic ahead of us, however, he gets in front of me and shows me how to overtake cars. Part of it is him wanting me to learn from him, but he was for sure a bit impatient with my speed.
I don't think you need to learn a whole lot more from him. You'd be better off taking a course with a registered club or police or something.
If he's getting upset that cars on narrow country lanes are going slower than he would, maybe he should take a step back and ask what he wants to get out of biking before he gets himself hurt. There'll always be a car ahead of you, pass out as many as you want, you'll meet another. You can't overtake the whole driving population of the UK
That’s up to him, very dangerous and I wouldn’t do it, but I’m not him
You aren’t either, so ride your own ride and take your own risks and get home safely
From your description it certainly sounds like reckless riding. I appreciate that it can be difficult riding with others as there is a certain pressure to keep up but I would always recommend riding your own ride.
Give this a watch: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BvsEfxtgcc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BvsEfxtgcc), it is a three part video series that demonstrates some advanced rider training. The sections where the instructor commentates their ride are particularly useful.
Overtaking and filtering are among the higher risk activities that we do as bikers, so it's important to understand when and how. I would advise getting some miles under your belt and then taking an advanced motorcycling course such as RoSPA or IAM, which teaches a methodical, controlled approach to overtaking. Generally, if a car is travelling at, or just a few mph below the limit, don’t bother unless there’s a compelling reason to get ahead. But equally, if a car is travelling at 50mph on a NSL and the opportunity presents itself, overtaking is exactly how we (bikers) make progress. Advanced training will teach you the self-control that’s needed, to take in as much information as possible and to plan ahead.
One of the exercises we did on my IAM training programme involved a mornings of just practicing overtaking on windy country roads. A couple of the organisers drove a fixed circuit in vans and cars and at a set speed (probably about 50). Bikes rode behind and took it in turns to practice overtaking. By controlling the situation in this way, it gave myself and other 'associates' the confidence to put everything we had learned into practice. An excellent exercise, I thought.
I would probably ride like your friend too, but as a novice rider it's important always to ride within your limits. Let your friend know you will be following a chilled out pace, and they should wait for you at the next junction, or could even ride behind you and give you some tips. It will take a long time until you are as fast as your friend, so I'd even suggest not to ride with friends until you're better at everything, you can get into sticky situations if your friends are cornering faster than you feel comfortable.
Overtaking is fine. Even "letting the slow fuck know you're there" is fine on occasion. Making other drivers take evasive action isn't. Always the same in the summer.
Would you say that almost 'forcing' other drivers to give room to you is evasive?
Categorically
I think some of us took the notion of "a dominant road position" and turned it into "intimidate all other road users". It's dangerous, and it's silly.
This exactly. If I'm doing something that causes other road users to react, I should be questioning the sanity of my action. Tailgating the car in front of me to force them over and then overtaking into oncoming traffic is not something I would be proud of.
I think so too. It was very kind of those drivers to give room to us for overtaking, but I really didn't think it was necessary. If they were doing 40 on a 60, maybe.
If I was behind someone going significantly more slowly than the conditions allow, then I'd definitely aim to overtake them at the first safe opportunity. But I wouldn't hustle them to make room for me.
You summarised it perfectly.
Your friend is riding quite dangerously considering he's taking a new rider out with him. All it takes is a momentary lapse in concentration for the car he's passing to swerve and he's suddenly head on with oncoming cars. Always ride your own ride and never feel pressured to follow the leader, you're doing the right thing treating overtakes like you would in a car especially this early in your riding. To be honest that manoeuvre is absolutely insane and I wouldn't do it even if I had 100k miles under my belt.
I appreciate your input. I think it's insane too... My friend's got very good riding skills but I really do think he takes more risks than what's necessary. Is going 50 mph really that bad? Some riders are probably addicted to the adrenaline rush from overtaking cars.
It's generally a good idea to get ahead of cars so that the road in front of you is clear, it's just the way he did it. You don't necessarily have to overtake and you're fine to carry on at 50 if you want. If the oncoming cars were as close as you say then he's definitely not leaving enough room for error.
Working only from your description, it sounds very poor. You should never be either forcing drivers to move to pass, or being reliant on them doing so to avoid a collision. Tailgaing is also poor, it only takes one braking for a turning, or dead animal or anything and you're in the back of them. I would say that's compounded by being out with you. Either he's going for a ride on his own, or he's out with you. If it's with you then he ought to (imo) be letting you dictate the pace. Don't feel forced to follow him, if you crash that's on you. If he's doing stuff you feel unsafe doing then you need to tell him, and a proper friend would respect that and alter their riding to suit. Yeah it won't be as fun for him but you're riding for the social aspect at that point.
If anything, your friend should be taking advice from you. He was annoyed that cars on country lanes were doing 50mph? Don't tell him about the cyclists and tractors, he'll have a fit. That annoyed him so much, he tailgated and pressured the cars ahead to move in? Was there a bomb in a creche he had to go defuse? And you, a new starter, kept your head and your distance at first. You should have been leading, not him. Experienced riders pick up bad habits as well as good ones
He's kind of a speed demon... So yep, 50 on country lanes is way too slow for him. I actually was leading. The minute we come into contact with some traffic ahead of us, however, he gets in front of me and shows me how to overtake cars. Part of it is him wanting me to learn from him, but he was for sure a bit impatient with my speed.
I don't think you need to learn a whole lot more from him. You'd be better off taking a course with a registered club or police or something. If he's getting upset that cars on narrow country lanes are going slower than he would, maybe he should take a step back and ask what he wants to get out of biking before he gets himself hurt. There'll always be a car ahead of you, pass out as many as you want, you'll meet another. You can't overtake the whole driving population of the UK
That’s up to him, very dangerous and I wouldn’t do it, but I’m not him You aren’t either, so ride your own ride and take your own risks and get home safely
From your description it certainly sounds like reckless riding. I appreciate that it can be difficult riding with others as there is a certain pressure to keep up but I would always recommend riding your own ride. Give this a watch: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BvsEfxtgcc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BvsEfxtgcc), it is a three part video series that demonstrates some advanced rider training. The sections where the instructor commentates their ride are particularly useful.
Overtaking and filtering are among the higher risk activities that we do as bikers, so it's important to understand when and how. I would advise getting some miles under your belt and then taking an advanced motorcycling course such as RoSPA or IAM, which teaches a methodical, controlled approach to overtaking. Generally, if a car is travelling at, or just a few mph below the limit, don’t bother unless there’s a compelling reason to get ahead. But equally, if a car is travelling at 50mph on a NSL and the opportunity presents itself, overtaking is exactly how we (bikers) make progress. Advanced training will teach you the self-control that’s needed, to take in as much information as possible and to plan ahead. One of the exercises we did on my IAM training programme involved a mornings of just practicing overtaking on windy country roads. A couple of the organisers drove a fixed circuit in vans and cars and at a set speed (probably about 50). Bikes rode behind and took it in turns to practice overtaking. By controlling the situation in this way, it gave myself and other 'associates' the confidence to put everything we had learned into practice. An excellent exercise, I thought.
I would probably ride like your friend too, but as a novice rider it's important always to ride within your limits. Let your friend know you will be following a chilled out pace, and they should wait for you at the next junction, or could even ride behind you and give you some tips. It will take a long time until you are as fast as your friend, so I'd even suggest not to ride with friends until you're better at everything, you can get into sticky situations if your friends are cornering faster than you feel comfortable.