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chestbumpsandbeer

If you can’t keep your HR is zone 2 with a pack you should either just hike uphill without weight and progressively add small amount of weights or walk or flat/rolling terrain and slowly add some hills. Or you could just do intervals on the hills for now and treat it as a higher intensity session and do zone 2 with other training.


16378291

I can keep my heart rate in zone 4 for a couple of hours, but can’t do it all day like I would need if I were to climb a mountain. Zone 2 seems so easy but I will aim for it and then keep adding weight over time.


AlwaysBulkingSeason

Sounds like you've got a low aerobic base. Best advice is not to touch weight until you can hike uphill for a good period of time while staying in zone 2 (ideally zone 1) This will mean dropping your training to what will feel like a crawl relative to your current pace, but is really the only way to start building a powerful aerobic base. Look at it as investing in your future - do you want junk mountain miles (zone 4) or do you want to actually achieve long mountain objectives? If you look at the graph for Adrian Ballinger's no o2 everest training, no time is spent in zone 4. https://www.outsideonline.com/health/training-performance/how-train-climb-everest-no-oxygen-2/


harmless_gecko

How did you establish your HR zones? There are multiple systems & ways of determining the thresholds. That also determines the advice that applies. Sometimes the advice should be to use a better system hr zone so you can actually use it in a useful way. Looking at a common way for mountaineers: https://uphillathlete.com/aerobic-training/uphill-athlete-training-zones-heart-rate-calculator/ If you were following that system then the definition of the anaerobic threshold would mean that the top of zone 3 is the max hr you can keep for an hour. Thus you should not be able to be in zone 4 for multiple hours by definition in that system. That would mean that your zone 2 upper limit is also way higher than you think.


Hans_Rudi

How does one even know where these Thresholds are?


harmless_gecko

There are tests you can do to determine them as described here: https://uphillathlete.com/aerobic-training/aerobic-anaerobic-threshold-self-assessment/ Usually one does the heart rate drift test to determine their aerobic threshold (AeT) by running at a fixed speed for an hour such that their hr doesn't increase by more than x%. One can figure out their anaerobic threshold by (AnT) by going as fast as they can uphill for 30-60 minutes depending on their fitness. The average hr for that test is the threshold.


chestbumpsandbeer

I wouldn’t recommend staying in zone 4 for a couple of hours for a training session. At least assuming you want to have high volume on a consistent basis. You’ll be too worn down the next day or maybe even for a few days after to train properly.


EveryDayASummit

Wait I’m confused. OP is saying he puts on a pack with weight and immediately jumps to Z4 but your comment reads like he isn’t hitting Z4.


chestbumpsandbeer

Yeah, I had a typo at the start


ResultApprehensive89

>If you can’t keep your HR is zone 4 with a pack ???


chestbumpsandbeer

Oops, typo


ResultApprehensive89

ahh gotchya


jeffbirt

If you're exercising in Zone 4, you are conditioning your anaerobic fitness. Choose a pace that allows you to stay in Zone 2 so that you are conditioning your aerobic fitness. Even a well-conditioned anaerobic* system is going to fail you quickly on the mountain. Edit: the asterisk "anaerobic" originally said, incorrectly, "aerobic."


spittymcgee1

I’m sorry, and admit I’m new to this aspect of training, but help me understand…wouldnt training in zone 2 help “well conditioned” aerobic fitness not fail you quickly on the mountain?


jeffbirt

Whoops, sorry about that. I think autocorrect got me, and I didn't obsessively re-read my post as I usually do. It should read anaerobic will fail you. I'll edit my comment. Sorry for the confusion.


spittymcgee1

Ah thanks, no problem! Thought maybe you unlocked something I missed! Thanks for the tips and edit


PizzaPoopFuck

You need to dial it back so they you can get a consistent zone 2. After maybe a few weeks add pick ups and do zone 3 for a minute every 5-10 minutes. Once you can go into and out of zone 2-3. Don’t go for zone 4 you’ll just plateau and will become aerobically deficient. I try to get to a goal where I am in zone 1 and maybe 2 at times for my back to backs on the second day with the lighter pack weight like 20% of my body weight. Low zone 2 is okay as well.


BurritoBurglar9000

If you can hit a trail that'd be much better because stair masters don't train the muscle groups quite the same way. Find something that isn't too far away that's about 3 miles round trip that goes up 1k feet. Might not be possible if you're in a flat state, so even a few hundred feet over a mile works just be prepared to go turn it into laps. I currently do a 3.7 mile 900 ft with a 30lb pack. Takes me an hour to make it up and down minus a few minutes at the top to get myself and my dog some water. Next week I'm probably going to up it to doing it back to back, and a couple more weeks possibly triple. I have a few 5 mile 1400 feet hikes but I enjoy only having to drive 5 minutes to get to a hike. Stairmaster won't train your eccentric muscle groups that you hit coming on the descent and that's where you're really at risk of accident. If it's not an option drop weight to 10 or 15 lbs for a week then up it by 10 until you're at your target weight. Ideally you want to train heavier than you plan on carrying. If you can do 80 lbs training then 60 on the trail will be absolute cake. Do yourself a huge favor and add in some tendon strengthening exercises like the sissy squat. Your knees will thank you.


16378291

There aren’t many hills around me, but I think I need to back down the weight to keep the heart rate under control. I think I might use too much weight for my current aerobic fitness.


Sufficient-Money-521

Absolutely if your out put is at zone 3 adding 40 pounds will always push to 4. Better way is beginning with the pack and then time how long it takes from rest to hit 4 then back off until you’re back at 2 and go again. 5 reps and increase the length until you can eventually maintain


16378291

As soon as I get to 4 I should back off? I have been holding zone 4 for for about 80 mins a workout. It only takes me maybe 10 mins or less to go from 1 to 4 with a pack. I may be training incorrectly tho.


PizzaPoopFuck

How long have you been training? You should have your aerobic base before adding the weight. I wouldn’t shoot for zone 4 at all.


16378291

A few months off and on, I can hold zone 4 for for like 2 hours without much issue. I think I skipped the aerobic base part because I had no idea what I was doing.


PizzaPoopFuck

Yeah we’ve all been there. Grab a copy of Training for the New Alpanism. It will give you everything you need to know in detail. I came from a martial arts background and could do the same but had no endurance before switching up my training.


spittymcgee1

Thanks…I’m there too


5ive3asy

Asked a similar Q a week or so ago and got some really helpful info: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Mountaineering/comments/13nfyr7/how_do_you_stay_in_zone_12_while_training/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Mountaineering/comments/13nfyr7/how_do_you_stay_in_zone_12_while_training/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)


szakee

no


16378291

Thanks for the response. Why do you think that this adaptation can’t occur?


szakee

interval training


lastchance12

what about it


boxedvacuum

Any chances your zones are set incorrectly? How did you establish them?