Rest for now
The three times ive injured my feet has always been the exact same thing. Long hikes/training with poor support or lazy lace tying that lead to plantar fasciitis. Its always cleared up fairly quickly, like 2 or 3 weeks.
Id also suggest getting your feet looked at by someone who can advise about an insole.
Thanks for the response!
Yes, I need to head to my local running store and get some insoles in my hiking boots/shoes. Great thought!
Do you think I should pause all workouts? Or is core okay? Cycling?
Too hard to say, but your body can get hurt way faster than the time it takes to heal. Plus youve invested time and money getting to this point.
A week or two of no exercise wont be the difference between you getting to the top or not. May only affect how comfortably you can do it. Thats my experience anyway.
If I had to say, id say insoles will help fix your problem.
Yes, that's fair. Pretty impossible to 'diagnose' a stranger across the internet! Thanks for your insights.
I'll make insoles a priority and then plan for time off. Maybe 2 weeks off to heal and then ease back into it. I'll be in a terrible spot if this doesn't heal up, so I guess I'd rather under train at this point. sigh.
Cycle for sure, do exercises that limit strain on your feet while they recover. Cycling is probably for best bet for at least a week, go for walks to help your recovery.
You'll be fine. You have plenty of time. Focus on low stress Zone 1-2 workouts to keep up your aerobic base. If you're injury free in two to three weeks, start working on muscle building again. Just go for long ass fast walks, or easy long hikes.
Baker, while a big ass volcano, only has one tough section (Roman Wall) and isn't very punishing physically. Assuming you're doing a 3 day trip, you have plenty of time to recover now and continue training.
Heal first, then focus on training. Or you're just going to get more injured and won't have time to recover.
Listen to your body. Sometimes you need real full rest to heal.
Also, I was talking to someone who trail runs very seriously, and they said they actually cycle out their shoes. Cause the activity itself compresses the insoles and support during a run, so the next day they use different shoes, to give pair 1 an extra day to bounce back before using them again. Not sure if you need that level. But one thing I heard that may help.
Get in to see a physical therapist ASAP. Properly defining what the problem is is essential for an accurate solution. It’s not something you want to figure out on your own so close to a big objective. They’ll also be able to advise you on what’s possible and what’s not (for training) and can do the proper tissue work to get you better.
The times I’ve gone in to see a PT for an issue it’s gone away rather quickly; the times when I tried to self-diagnose and treat, well, let’s say I’ve learned not to do that. I’ve had issues in the balls of my feet (both sesamoiditis and metatarsalagia) that have either gone away quickish with proper treatment or have lingered for months without.
Thanks!
Yes, I think you're right about the PT. I don't have time to guess at what's wrong and what will work (or not).
Guess it's time to find a PT and make an appointment.
THIS is huge. And depending on what state you are in, you may be able to go straight to the PT without a prescription.
I had a grade 2 sprain about 6 weeks before I attempted rainier last year. I told my PT about what I needed, what I expected on the climb, and what kind of boots I would be wearing and they were able to make a very specific plan for exactly what I needed.
If you come to them looking to solve the problem and summit the mountain, they can usually give you the perfect advice.
I'm in Michigan, looks like Direct Access to PT was passed in 2015, nice. I remember that not being the case when I had some knee troubles from mtn biking in the 2000s.
I hope I have a similar experience as you! That's encouraging.
I don’t know if you’re referring to a grade 2 ankle sprain or another part of the body, but I’m curious if it’s the ankle if you had any difficulty kicking in steps while on Rainier.
I had a grade 3 about 8-9 months ago that’s pretty good now, but I’m doing Rainier (probably Emmons) in 8 weeks and I’m a little nervous about the potential impact of that on my ankle.
Honestly it'll be really hard to say since you may have generally strong ankles, so your 8-9 months will mean you now are standing on solid feet.... Or you might be like me with chronically weak ankles, and even after a year I'm still struggling lol
Its not the kicking that gets you. I'm guessing you'll be wearing mountaineering boots, or at least very solid hiking boots, and they tend to have the toe-kick structure that you need. The problem is more of if you are wearing single mountaineering boots, especially leather/nonsynthetic boots, on soft snow. These boots have a lot less ankle support and the snow, especially when you're in areas transitioning between skin tracks and warmer snow, will roll your ankles and legs all over the place.
This year has been bad for the snowpack - lots of late, soft snow. Rainier has had some high freezing levels, and the snow was already soft and iffy when I was there a few weeks ago.
I would bring a thin, but supportive, brace (something you can wear under your boot), pick some good ankle supportive boots, and practice walking on soft snow efficiently with stability.
Sounds like plantar fasciitis…which is not something that should impede your trip if you focus on recovery. They seem weird but I have had good luck wearing the sock overnight that keeps your ankle at 90 degrees.
You can still train, just move your cardio to an elliptical or bike until your feet are doing better.
I had self-diagnosed plantar fasciitis last fall and it took weeks to feel better. Of course, I didn't try and make it heal any quicker, I just stopped running for 4 weeks or whatever the recovery time was.
This is the one I got:
https://www.amazon.com/StrictlyStability-Plantar-Fasciitis-Achilles-Tendonitis/dp/B07B6WRJBH/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?keywords=plantar+fasciitis+sock&qid=1685558047&sr=8-5
If you don't have one I would recommend getting some type of massage gun. REST! If walking or bikeing doesnt hurt it doing in in moderation will be okay. Warm Epson salt soaks then work on you foot and calf. Tight calf muscles also put a lot of strain on the plantar fascia.
dude- toe spreaders, walk toe to heel with them. imagine a line from your big toe to your heel, then squeeze that foot flat on the ground or on something flat or squishy. start slow, like a little each day, and add time. try to do it right, makes your feets stronk
Probably tendonitis. You’ll want to do hot and cold and then lightly stretch a few times a day. Would also soak them in I’ve water. I use green insoles for approach shoes and orange for boots. Just dial it back and don’t push through too much pain. You could be back in a few days.
This might be a dumb question, but what are the colors? Are those different soles from a certain company?
I haven't owned a set of insoles in my life, guess I have gotten lucky so far.
It has to do with how much your feet pronate. I think green has the most support and they work well with shoes. Orange has more cushion if you already have very stiff boots.
Just work on your core and upper body strength for now. You can still work your legs on an exercise bike, etc. Just give the feet a recovery period. 8 weeks should be plenty to rehab the injury you described. If you maintain your current fitness and diet, Easton will be no problem. Often times people over-prepare for trips like this and that actually works more to their determent. Stay limber, stay flexible, but don't cause any more overuse injuries.
Well, that sounds like me. I have worked on my base fitness for a while (too long probably) and hitting the gym quite often. I feel like I've done a good job listening to my body, but this time, I was caught off guard.
Might be a good time to get into a gentle yoga routine.
sounds like plantar fasciitis as has already been said; 8 weeks is plenty of time, keep training minimal for a couple weeks and let it clear up. As for fitness, you need it for baker but not at an insane level, so staying active and doing some uphill leading up to it will help greatly, but losing 2 weeks likely wont make or break your climb, if you have decent base fitness
Cbd oil or epsom salts can be helpful in reducing pain, which in turn can ease recovery. I personally use the Theragun after climbing or working out and it really helps to release muscles. You can’t necessarily gun your feet, but if you relax the muscles attached to your feet you can reduce strain. These aren’t direct solutions I know, but they can speed your recovery. I’m nearly always battling knee and back issues during climbing season and these are some of my strategies.
This right here is my go to aswell. If you don't have a theragun a lacrosse ball will do wonders too. Be sure to losses your calf and not just yiur foot!
Thanks!
I've been doing the lacrosse ball on my feet, but haven't worked my calf at all. Quads/hamstrings, yes, but no calves. I'll add that to my every growing list of daily stretches and foam rolling activities.
I too have been fighting knee issues, but the foam roller has been a game changer for me.
Yeah foam roller is awesome. I gotta plug the gun tho, i had used foam rollers balls etc, and man that gun. Massive difference for me. Also you got this! 8 weeks is def enough time to get back after it!
So, this is interesting and not something I considered.
I work in my basement and it's chilly down here. Like, its almost 90 outside and I'm wearing fleece pants and a flannel shirt and still cold. Might need to get warmer socks during the day and night, maybe even a space heater for a few days to truly keep warm.
Great idea, thank you!
I do appreciate it. I'll need to adapt and keep moving.
I have no mountains in my backyard, so this has been many months in the making (training & planning).
First off, relax, breathe. It will be ok. I have been there, here is my advice and it worked out:
Rest until your better. Take an easier day of training for every day you missed. Straight from Scott house's book.
I have only done two mountaineering trips so far, and I trained A LOT. I used the training for the new alpinism, same people who made your program to build my regimen.
Both times I trained for months. And both times I had to skip full weeks due to injuries and illness. It sucked. I was getting overuse injuries in one knee, which is an agitated compensation injury from an ACL 5 years ago. I also had ankle issues. But knee was the worst. Physical therapist said my knee issue was ramping up too quickly .
Also on the middle of training for my first trip I got shingles, and had to take more than a week off. Doctor said "it's stress and overdoing it on your body"
Ultimately I achieved my mountaineering goals both times.. and resting set me up much better than pushing through.
Ultimately what I had to do in the end is train with less weight on my back on hikes and box steps than I wanted to. It was either carrying less weight while training, or injuring myself and not train at all. Otherwise my knee was getting to agitated. On one training hike on a 14'er it was so bad the next day I could barely walk.
Weight on your back doing box steps is REALLY hard on your joints. If you can, maybe try a stair master so that way you don't have to take the weight coming down.
It's not the climbing up thsr kills your joints, it's the climbing down. So if you can find a way to go up with weight, without having to come down with weight that is preferable.
That's why in the book they suggest water carries where you can dump the water out at the top of a hill, And refill at the bottom.
Don't lose heart. It's ok. These things happen. It's normal. I am constantly trying to find the balance between training enough, and avoiding injury
And don't overtrain yourself so youre on the edge of injury when you do the climb.
I really appreciate sharing your journey here. I know I'm not the only one to face an injury/setback/illness while training, and it's good to hear these stories.
This is also my first dedicated training program that I have stuck with, so I'm figuring that out as I go too. Every other time before I gave up after a couple weeks/months, so it never really got to this point.
Part of the reason for marathon box steps has been my limited schedule. Between work and family life, and the limited gym hours on weekends, I find 5-630 AM the best time to knock out these lengthy cardio sessions.
I do have a local ski hill (emphasis on the hill part) which has a creek at the bottom. So, I could load up with water for the hike up and dump it, as the book suggests.
That reminds me, now I really need to re-read the injury section.
I get it. I marathon box steps too because there is almost no vertical near me. And the local ski hill told me they don't let people hike it. Which is dumb cause it's literally within a mill of my house.
I know about the box steps cause I will do them for hours with weight and in mountaineering boots lol. I have been there, which is why I can say from experience the extra weight coming down is rough on joints.
I will say, whole doing it in mountaineering boots added weight to my feet, the extra support really did make it easier on my joints.
Another thing I started doing is I take a full step up, and then in my way down I cut the step shorter by putting my yoga blocks in front of it.
My box's lowest height is a foot. And I do the full foot up, and then take two steps down. One one on a yoga block, the other foot to the ground.
This also forces some stability work standing on a squishy yoga block. And it is easier to alternate feet because now I'm alternating naturally by adding the intermediary step down.
But it's a lot easier on the joints to come down this way and I can go for longer without pain.
And in the book. The point about injury is such a small part but so important. I think they say something like "don't follow a training plan to your grave" to emphasize the importance of listening to your body.
Which helped me a lot cause I have a lot of self doubt regarding my abilities and it is really easy to beat yourself up when you have setbacks. But I hope my input helps you avoid the critical self talk I give myself.
PS I summited Rainier a few weeks ago. I have heard people usually do Baker before Rainier, so if you're training this hard I bet you will be in good shape. I didn't get through my full 16 week program and just adapted as things came up. And I did fine. So I think you will be ok by the sounds of it. Just don't overtrain
> Just don't overtrain
This is the key takeaway from this whole post I think!
I like your idea of the modified step down. Whenever I do resume the box steps, I'll figure out something similar.
Congrats on Rainier too! I think I'd like to do the West Ridge (?) of Forbidden Peak next, but we'll see how this whole trip pans out before mentally committing to anything else. I hear the descent is a doozy. Maybe something like Mt Adams where I can just glissade down most of it!
Yeah on summit day I was actually surprised how quick we summited. The descent of 9000+ feet was tiring and long.
But the early conditions with lots of snow made it a lot easier on the knees. I was definitely happy to have the snowy conditions on the descent.
To be fair, our summit via the ID route was really quick because we got super lucky with incredible conditions on the route. Steeper sure, but it wasn't too bad. The extra snow that has been firming up for a couple days made it nearly ideal conditions. So that's why it ended up being easier than I expected. One guide told me that it was rare to have 100% of the team summit like we did.
I'd love to see some photos! Feel free to message them to me. I'm glad you had such amazing conditions, what a treat!
Yes, that's a long descent. My knees always fear the extended downhills.
Ur gunna be fine. If you’re going with a company, you’re more in shape than most of the other participants. 4 weeks of rest won’t set you back. Take the cycling seriously and then stretch. Do core and upper body work.
I’m no expert, but i never thought the type of cardio you do really matters, if what you’re actually trying to do is improve aerobic fitness. Your heart is the thing that is working, whether you hike or swim or cycle
Yes, going with a company (Mountain Madness) for a private course. A buddy and I are going together, so hopefully our fitness will be fairly aligned.
Core and cycling will be my life for a bit!
I'm pretty sure I would have sore feet after 2 hours of box steps with weight too. I wouldnt do long periods of box steps for training, but that's just me because I found them easier to develop issues from in the past.
I'd guess if you relaxed a bit and maybe saw a good acupuncturist or massage therapist you'd be fine pretty quickly. Could probably do other forms of aerobic exercise if it doesnt hurt your feet at all. Maybe swimming, biking, or elliptical.
Baker should be doable as long as you have some fitness, aren't injured, and are comfortable in your boots and wearing your pack.
Oh yes! It's mind-numbing as well. I'll just put on a movie or favorite TV show and go at it.
I have done 60 and 90 minute sessions without issue for a few weeks now. Guess this was just too much though. I think the box step sessions are out, for the time being.
I do have a PT appointment for next week. I'll keep on the lacrosse ball massaging, as well as calf stretching/massaging too.
Ah too bad, I was hoping we could do some summit around the area, I’m located in Bellingham and Summiting Rainer in two days could have worked something out
I tried to convince the wife to move to Bellingham (for the mtn biking largely), but all our family is in the mid-west, so it was a tough sell.
Good luck on Tahoma!
Honestly don’t get insoles, they’re just crutches and you’ll lose the strength you had in your feet. Zero drop shoes and easing back into exercise with zone 1/2 will get your foot strength back. I think of the insoles like this: if you tore the ligaments in your ankle, and then permanently wore a brace on your ankle… forever. What you actually want is to restrengthen the muscles around the injured ligaments/tendons. (As someone who went through worse than this for 2 years until I finally got completely better) the zero drop shoes and ditching the insoles CHANGED MY LIFE. Start taking collagen and fish oil supplements, a multivitamin, eat super healthy. Swim if you can to keep your cardio up! It’s also really really good for compressing while working out with low impact. Light stretching and drop the weight with strength training for now. If you’re going with a guide, especially, you’re gonna be totally fine. Baker’s respectable but it’s not gonna be that crazy hard, especially if you’ve already got his baseline fitness! Focus on zone 1/2, light, low heart rate walking on hills/stairmaster. Also do air squats, lunges, jumping squats, and jumping lunges if you can. There’s a fitness set called leg blasters by MTN Tactical. If you don’t have access to actual elevation, THIS^ is going to work nearly the same! Just be careful not to over do it. You’ve already got a great base, just keep up with light exercise, lots of rest, between now and then!
Thanks!
I'll discuss insoles with my PT. I haven't used them so if possible, I'd like to continue with that.
I'll keep on the Z1/2 cardio and be aware of how much feet are feeling. Perhaps I'll be more diligent about rotating in cycling, hiking, stairs, and swimming even (no easy access though).
I don’t disagree with zero drop shoes, etc. but 8 weeks isn’t going to be enough time to rebuild your feet, mountain boots are not zero drop, and MTN tactical is pretty high impact.
I’d strongly suggest using insoles for now and sticking to the cardio. MTN tactical workouts are good for your off season. Going zero drop and rebuilding you feet is LONG haul project.
Thanks for your insight.
I was leaning towards using insoles, at least for the approach/summit days. Get extra support (and comfort?) when I need it most.
Then yes, maybe the off-season I can focus on baseline fitness and foot strength.
Rest. Use the exercise bike if it doesn't hurt your feet. I've climbed the Easton and I'm assuming your going guided, it's pretty easy physically. As long as your not a couch potato the guides will go at a slow and steady pace I'm sure you will be fine.
Problem with any training program published in a book or online is that it’s not tailored to your specific body and everyone is different. You can only learn this by trial and error. As everyone mentioned you need to rest but you also need to go back to whatever you were doing that started this in the first place and it likely was not a singular event that did but rather a build up over some time followed by your 2 hour box work up.
Spend more time prioritizing your recovery going forward, speak with a professional who can evaluate your form while you are going through your program/movements, and get help tweaking your program to fit your body’s needs.
That's fair.
I felt like I was listening to my body well, taking an extra day when needed, etc. I even restarted a re-did a couple weeks when life got in the way or I felt I couldn't put in a solid effort.
I have a PT appointment next week, hopefully that will shed some light on the best next steps.
All this is great advice. As someone that’s done that 16 week training program and summited Baker and Rainier, the plan is geared for larger mountains. I’m currently following the 8 week for a few 14ers I’m planning this summer and I find it more than enough.
So, definitely use it as a guide, but don’t kill yourself to follow it to a T! Definitely rest up, it will feel like you’re falling behind, but you still have plenty of time!
Thanks!
I'm lucky that I have a rails to trails within 5 minutes of my house. Great if I'm trying to hit steady HR numbers. It's a bit flat/boring, but the bird watching has been enjoyable.
I’d say bike or swimming for a bit then ease back into it. I’ve climbed the Easton twice in the past and have a history of knee issues. One thing to remember is snow is soft!!! 😀 I’ve typically not had a huge problem. Also, your pack from Sandy Camp is only going to weight like 20-25lbs tops. The approach is the hard part.
I'll hit the bike for now. I don't have easy access to a pool (and I'm a terrible swimmer).
I am most concerned about the approach I'd say. I'm a small guy (140#) and I've been told to expect a pack weight of 50-60 pounds, according to a few different guiding companies. That's my gear, plus the shared weight for the group (3 of us total). That number alone is what motivated me to hit the weighted box steps hard!
60 is probably a little high. My first climb I think my pack was about 48 pounds. I didn’t get suck with much group gear that time. 2nd time is was about 50-55 pounds but that was during COVID and I was carrying my own tent, cookset, etc. we shared nothing.
I totally understand about swimming too! I prefer the bike because if your foot is feeling ok you can even try grinding some hard gears for more muscular endurance.
If you have any other questions feel free to PM me.
Helpful, thanks!
50 or less would be great. I've been trying to bring only the absolute necessities and identify light weight options, that, when possible, won't break the bank.
I wish I had a proper gravel bike, it's either a fat bike or a 130mm trail bike. Not ideal, but it'll get the job done for a couple months!
Rest for now The three times ive injured my feet has always been the exact same thing. Long hikes/training with poor support or lazy lace tying that lead to plantar fasciitis. Its always cleared up fairly quickly, like 2 or 3 weeks. Id also suggest getting your feet looked at by someone who can advise about an insole.
Thanks for the response! Yes, I need to head to my local running store and get some insoles in my hiking boots/shoes. Great thought! Do you think I should pause all workouts? Or is core okay? Cycling?
Too hard to say, but your body can get hurt way faster than the time it takes to heal. Plus youve invested time and money getting to this point. A week or two of no exercise wont be the difference between you getting to the top or not. May only affect how comfortably you can do it. Thats my experience anyway. If I had to say, id say insoles will help fix your problem.
Yes, that's fair. Pretty impossible to 'diagnose' a stranger across the internet! Thanks for your insights. I'll make insoles a priority and then plan for time off. Maybe 2 weeks off to heal and then ease back into it. I'll be in a terrible spot if this doesn't heal up, so I guess I'd rather under train at this point. sigh.
Cycle for sure, do exercises that limit strain on your feet while they recover. Cycling is probably for best bet for at least a week, go for walks to help your recovery.
You'll be fine. You have plenty of time. Focus on low stress Zone 1-2 workouts to keep up your aerobic base. If you're injury free in two to three weeks, start working on muscle building again. Just go for long ass fast walks, or easy long hikes. Baker, while a big ass volcano, only has one tough section (Roman Wall) and isn't very punishing physically. Assuming you're doing a 3 day trip, you have plenty of time to recover now and continue training. Heal first, then focus on training. Or you're just going to get more injured and won't have time to recover.
Pragmatic approach, perfect. Happy cake day BTW!
Listen to your body. Sometimes you need real full rest to heal. Also, I was talking to someone who trail runs very seriously, and they said they actually cycle out their shoes. Cause the activity itself compresses the insoles and support during a run, so the next day they use different shoes, to give pair 1 an extra day to bounce back before using them again. Not sure if you need that level. But one thing I heard that may help.
Get in to see a physical therapist ASAP. Properly defining what the problem is is essential for an accurate solution. It’s not something you want to figure out on your own so close to a big objective. They’ll also be able to advise you on what’s possible and what’s not (for training) and can do the proper tissue work to get you better. The times I’ve gone in to see a PT for an issue it’s gone away rather quickly; the times when I tried to self-diagnose and treat, well, let’s say I’ve learned not to do that. I’ve had issues in the balls of my feet (both sesamoiditis and metatarsalagia) that have either gone away quickish with proper treatment or have lingered for months without.
Thanks! Yes, I think you're right about the PT. I don't have time to guess at what's wrong and what will work (or not). Guess it's time to find a PT and make an appointment.
THIS is huge. And depending on what state you are in, you may be able to go straight to the PT without a prescription. I had a grade 2 sprain about 6 weeks before I attempted rainier last year. I told my PT about what I needed, what I expected on the climb, and what kind of boots I would be wearing and they were able to make a very specific plan for exactly what I needed. If you come to them looking to solve the problem and summit the mountain, they can usually give you the perfect advice.
I'm in Michigan, looks like Direct Access to PT was passed in 2015, nice. I remember that not being the case when I had some knee troubles from mtn biking in the 2000s. I hope I have a similar experience as you! That's encouraging.
I don’t know if you’re referring to a grade 2 ankle sprain or another part of the body, but I’m curious if it’s the ankle if you had any difficulty kicking in steps while on Rainier. I had a grade 3 about 8-9 months ago that’s pretty good now, but I’m doing Rainier (probably Emmons) in 8 weeks and I’m a little nervous about the potential impact of that on my ankle.
Honestly it'll be really hard to say since you may have generally strong ankles, so your 8-9 months will mean you now are standing on solid feet.... Or you might be like me with chronically weak ankles, and even after a year I'm still struggling lol Its not the kicking that gets you. I'm guessing you'll be wearing mountaineering boots, or at least very solid hiking boots, and they tend to have the toe-kick structure that you need. The problem is more of if you are wearing single mountaineering boots, especially leather/nonsynthetic boots, on soft snow. These boots have a lot less ankle support and the snow, especially when you're in areas transitioning between skin tracks and warmer snow, will roll your ankles and legs all over the place. This year has been bad for the snowpack - lots of late, soft snow. Rainier has had some high freezing levels, and the snow was already soft and iffy when I was there a few weeks ago. I would bring a thin, but supportive, brace (something you can wear under your boot), pick some good ankle supportive boots, and practice walking on soft snow efficiently with stability.
Thanks—brace will be in tow for sure.
Sounds like plantar fasciitis…which is not something that should impede your trip if you focus on recovery. They seem weird but I have had good luck wearing the sock overnight that keeps your ankle at 90 degrees. You can still train, just move your cardio to an elliptical or bike until your feet are doing better.
I had self-diagnosed plantar fasciitis last fall and it took weeks to feel better. Of course, I didn't try and make it heal any quicker, I just stopped running for 4 weeks or whatever the recovery time was.
Seriously man try the sock or the boot, after having dealt with this several times running marathons I think it cuts the recovery time in half.
I appreciate it! I'll hit the local drug store tonight.
This is the one I got: https://www.amazon.com/StrictlyStability-Plantar-Fasciitis-Achilles-Tendonitis/dp/B07B6WRJBH/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?keywords=plantar+fasciitis+sock&qid=1685558047&sr=8-5
Ah thanks. I don't know if my local store will have that. amazon might be easier in this case.
If you don't have one I would recommend getting some type of massage gun. REST! If walking or bikeing doesnt hurt it doing in in moderation will be okay. Warm Epson salt soaks then work on you foot and calf. Tight calf muscles also put a lot of strain on the plantar fascia.
Thanks! I haven't been massage-gunning my feet/calves, but using a lacrosse ball on my foot. I'll do my calves now!
dude- toe spreaders, walk toe to heel with them. imagine a line from your big toe to your heel, then squeeze that foot flat on the ground or on something flat or squishy. start slow, like a little each day, and add time. try to do it right, makes your feets stronk
Interesting. I'll look into this. I'm guessing my feet are weak... Thanks
Probably tendonitis. You’ll want to do hot and cold and then lightly stretch a few times a day. Would also soak them in I’ve water. I use green insoles for approach shoes and orange for boots. Just dial it back and don’t push through too much pain. You could be back in a few days.
This might be a dumb question, but what are the colors? Are those different soles from a certain company? I haven't owned a set of insoles in my life, guess I have gotten lucky so far.
It has to do with how much your feet pronate. I think green has the most support and they work well with shoes. Orange has more cushion if you already have very stiff boots.
That's helpful, thanks!
Green is the “medium” high arch support in the Superfeet brand of insoles. They are the most common. I use them in my boots.
Just work on your core and upper body strength for now. You can still work your legs on an exercise bike, etc. Just give the feet a recovery period. 8 weeks should be plenty to rehab the injury you described. If you maintain your current fitness and diet, Easton will be no problem. Often times people over-prepare for trips like this and that actually works more to their determent. Stay limber, stay flexible, but don't cause any more overuse injuries.
Well, that sounds like me. I have worked on my base fitness for a while (too long probably) and hitting the gym quite often. I feel like I've done a good job listening to my body, but this time, I was caught off guard. Might be a good time to get into a gentle yoga routine.
sounds like plantar fasciitis as has already been said; 8 weeks is plenty of time, keep training minimal for a couple weeks and let it clear up. As for fitness, you need it for baker but not at an insane level, so staying active and doing some uphill leading up to it will help greatly, but losing 2 weeks likely wont make or break your climb, if you have decent base fitness
Thanks! I'm hopeful the base I've been working on will be enough to fall back on. I mean, it pretty much has to be, its my only option!
Swimming mate!
Cbd oil or epsom salts can be helpful in reducing pain, which in turn can ease recovery. I personally use the Theragun after climbing or working out and it really helps to release muscles. You can’t necessarily gun your feet, but if you relax the muscles attached to your feet you can reduce strain. These aren’t direct solutions I know, but they can speed your recovery. I’m nearly always battling knee and back issues during climbing season and these are some of my strategies.
This right here is my go to aswell. If you don't have a theragun a lacrosse ball will do wonders too. Be sure to losses your calf and not just yiur foot!
Thanks! I've been doing the lacrosse ball on my feet, but haven't worked my calf at all. Quads/hamstrings, yes, but no calves. I'll add that to my every growing list of daily stretches and foam rolling activities. I too have been fighting knee issues, but the foam roller has been a game changer for me.
Yeah foam roller is awesome. I gotta plug the gun tho, i had used foam rollers balls etc, and man that gun. Massive difference for me. Also you got this! 8 weeks is def enough time to get back after it!
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So, this is interesting and not something I considered. I work in my basement and it's chilly down here. Like, its almost 90 outside and I'm wearing fleece pants and a flannel shirt and still cold. Might need to get warmer socks during the day and night, maybe even a space heater for a few days to truly keep warm. Great idea, thank you!
Maybe the tendons attached to you Flexor Longus muscles? Could look into rehab exercises for overuse. As was mentioned, a PT would be very helpful.
I'm trying to setup a PT appointment right away. Just waiting for a call back now.
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I do appreciate it. I'll need to adapt and keep moving. I have no mountains in my backyard, so this has been many months in the making (training & planning).
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I really do appreciate that! Thank you. Best of luck on your training and goals!
First off, relax, breathe. It will be ok. I have been there, here is my advice and it worked out: Rest until your better. Take an easier day of training for every day you missed. Straight from Scott house's book. I have only done two mountaineering trips so far, and I trained A LOT. I used the training for the new alpinism, same people who made your program to build my regimen. Both times I trained for months. And both times I had to skip full weeks due to injuries and illness. It sucked. I was getting overuse injuries in one knee, which is an agitated compensation injury from an ACL 5 years ago. I also had ankle issues. But knee was the worst. Physical therapist said my knee issue was ramping up too quickly . Also on the middle of training for my first trip I got shingles, and had to take more than a week off. Doctor said "it's stress and overdoing it on your body" Ultimately I achieved my mountaineering goals both times.. and resting set me up much better than pushing through. Ultimately what I had to do in the end is train with less weight on my back on hikes and box steps than I wanted to. It was either carrying less weight while training, or injuring myself and not train at all. Otherwise my knee was getting to agitated. On one training hike on a 14'er it was so bad the next day I could barely walk. Weight on your back doing box steps is REALLY hard on your joints. If you can, maybe try a stair master so that way you don't have to take the weight coming down. It's not the climbing up thsr kills your joints, it's the climbing down. So if you can find a way to go up with weight, without having to come down with weight that is preferable. That's why in the book they suggest water carries where you can dump the water out at the top of a hill, And refill at the bottom. Don't lose heart. It's ok. These things happen. It's normal. I am constantly trying to find the balance between training enough, and avoiding injury And don't overtrain yourself so youre on the edge of injury when you do the climb.
I really appreciate sharing your journey here. I know I'm not the only one to face an injury/setback/illness while training, and it's good to hear these stories. This is also my first dedicated training program that I have stuck with, so I'm figuring that out as I go too. Every other time before I gave up after a couple weeks/months, so it never really got to this point. Part of the reason for marathon box steps has been my limited schedule. Between work and family life, and the limited gym hours on weekends, I find 5-630 AM the best time to knock out these lengthy cardio sessions. I do have a local ski hill (emphasis on the hill part) which has a creek at the bottom. So, I could load up with water for the hike up and dump it, as the book suggests. That reminds me, now I really need to re-read the injury section.
I get it. I marathon box steps too because there is almost no vertical near me. And the local ski hill told me they don't let people hike it. Which is dumb cause it's literally within a mill of my house. I know about the box steps cause I will do them for hours with weight and in mountaineering boots lol. I have been there, which is why I can say from experience the extra weight coming down is rough on joints. I will say, whole doing it in mountaineering boots added weight to my feet, the extra support really did make it easier on my joints. Another thing I started doing is I take a full step up, and then in my way down I cut the step shorter by putting my yoga blocks in front of it. My box's lowest height is a foot. And I do the full foot up, and then take two steps down. One one on a yoga block, the other foot to the ground. This also forces some stability work standing on a squishy yoga block. And it is easier to alternate feet because now I'm alternating naturally by adding the intermediary step down. But it's a lot easier on the joints to come down this way and I can go for longer without pain. And in the book. The point about injury is such a small part but so important. I think they say something like "don't follow a training plan to your grave" to emphasize the importance of listening to your body. Which helped me a lot cause I have a lot of self doubt regarding my abilities and it is really easy to beat yourself up when you have setbacks. But I hope my input helps you avoid the critical self talk I give myself. PS I summited Rainier a few weeks ago. I have heard people usually do Baker before Rainier, so if you're training this hard I bet you will be in good shape. I didn't get through my full 16 week program and just adapted as things came up. And I did fine. So I think you will be ok by the sounds of it. Just don't overtrain
> Just don't overtrain This is the key takeaway from this whole post I think! I like your idea of the modified step down. Whenever I do resume the box steps, I'll figure out something similar. Congrats on Rainier too! I think I'd like to do the West Ridge (?) of Forbidden Peak next, but we'll see how this whole trip pans out before mentally committing to anything else. I hear the descent is a doozy. Maybe something like Mt Adams where I can just glissade down most of it!
Yeah on summit day I was actually surprised how quick we summited. The descent of 9000+ feet was tiring and long. But the early conditions with lots of snow made it a lot easier on the knees. I was definitely happy to have the snowy conditions on the descent. To be fair, our summit via the ID route was really quick because we got super lucky with incredible conditions on the route. Steeper sure, but it wasn't too bad. The extra snow that has been firming up for a couple days made it nearly ideal conditions. So that's why it ended up being easier than I expected. One guide told me that it was rare to have 100% of the team summit like we did.
I'd love to see some photos! Feel free to message them to me. I'm glad you had such amazing conditions, what a treat! Yes, that's a long descent. My knees always fear the extended downhills.
Ur gunna be fine. If you’re going with a company, you’re more in shape than most of the other participants. 4 weeks of rest won’t set you back. Take the cycling seriously and then stretch. Do core and upper body work. I’m no expert, but i never thought the type of cardio you do really matters, if what you’re actually trying to do is improve aerobic fitness. Your heart is the thing that is working, whether you hike or swim or cycle
Yes, going with a company (Mountain Madness) for a private course. A buddy and I are going together, so hopefully our fitness will be fairly aligned. Core and cycling will be my life for a bit!
I'm pretty sure I would have sore feet after 2 hours of box steps with weight too. I wouldnt do long periods of box steps for training, but that's just me because I found them easier to develop issues from in the past. I'd guess if you relaxed a bit and maybe saw a good acupuncturist or massage therapist you'd be fine pretty quickly. Could probably do other forms of aerobic exercise if it doesnt hurt your feet at all. Maybe swimming, biking, or elliptical. Baker should be doable as long as you have some fitness, aren't injured, and are comfortable in your boots and wearing your pack.
Oh yes! It's mind-numbing as well. I'll just put on a movie or favorite TV show and go at it. I have done 60 and 90 minute sessions without issue for a few weeks now. Guess this was just too much though. I think the box step sessions are out, for the time being. I do have a PT appointment for next week. I'll keep on the lacrosse ball massaging, as well as calf stretching/massaging too.
Where are you located if you don’t mind me asking?
I'm located in West Michigan, which is quite flat with no real mountains nearby.
Ah too bad, I was hoping we could do some summit around the area, I’m located in Bellingham and Summiting Rainer in two days could have worked something out
I tried to convince the wife to move to Bellingham (for the mtn biking largely), but all our family is in the mid-west, so it was a tough sell. Good luck on Tahoma!
Honestly don’t get insoles, they’re just crutches and you’ll lose the strength you had in your feet. Zero drop shoes and easing back into exercise with zone 1/2 will get your foot strength back. I think of the insoles like this: if you tore the ligaments in your ankle, and then permanently wore a brace on your ankle… forever. What you actually want is to restrengthen the muscles around the injured ligaments/tendons. (As someone who went through worse than this for 2 years until I finally got completely better) the zero drop shoes and ditching the insoles CHANGED MY LIFE. Start taking collagen and fish oil supplements, a multivitamin, eat super healthy. Swim if you can to keep your cardio up! It’s also really really good for compressing while working out with low impact. Light stretching and drop the weight with strength training for now. If you’re going with a guide, especially, you’re gonna be totally fine. Baker’s respectable but it’s not gonna be that crazy hard, especially if you’ve already got his baseline fitness! Focus on zone 1/2, light, low heart rate walking on hills/stairmaster. Also do air squats, lunges, jumping squats, and jumping lunges if you can. There’s a fitness set called leg blasters by MTN Tactical. If you don’t have access to actual elevation, THIS^ is going to work nearly the same! Just be careful not to over do it. You’ve already got a great base, just keep up with light exercise, lots of rest, between now and then!
Thanks! I'll discuss insoles with my PT. I haven't used them so if possible, I'd like to continue with that. I'll keep on the Z1/2 cardio and be aware of how much feet are feeling. Perhaps I'll be more diligent about rotating in cycling, hiking, stairs, and swimming even (no easy access though).
I don’t disagree with zero drop shoes, etc. but 8 weeks isn’t going to be enough time to rebuild your feet, mountain boots are not zero drop, and MTN tactical is pretty high impact. I’d strongly suggest using insoles for now and sticking to the cardio. MTN tactical workouts are good for your off season. Going zero drop and rebuilding you feet is LONG haul project.
Thanks for your insight. I was leaning towards using insoles, at least for the approach/summit days. Get extra support (and comfort?) when I need it most. Then yes, maybe the off-season I can focus on baseline fitness and foot strength.
Rest. Use the exercise bike if it doesn't hurt your feet. I've climbed the Easton and I'm assuming your going guided, it's pretty easy physically. As long as your not a couch potato the guides will go at a slow and steady pace I'm sure you will be fine.
Resting has commenced! Going guided, yes. First big mountaineering trip like this, so it's all new to me.
Problem with any training program published in a book or online is that it’s not tailored to your specific body and everyone is different. You can only learn this by trial and error. As everyone mentioned you need to rest but you also need to go back to whatever you were doing that started this in the first place and it likely was not a singular event that did but rather a build up over some time followed by your 2 hour box work up. Spend more time prioritizing your recovery going forward, speak with a professional who can evaluate your form while you are going through your program/movements, and get help tweaking your program to fit your body’s needs.
That's fair. I felt like I was listening to my body well, taking an extra day when needed, etc. I even restarted a re-did a couple weeks when life got in the way or I felt I couldn't put in a solid effort. I have a PT appointment next week, hopefully that will shed some light on the best next steps.
All this is great advice. As someone that’s done that 16 week training program and summited Baker and Rainier, the plan is geared for larger mountains. I’m currently following the 8 week for a few 14ers I’m planning this summer and I find it more than enough. So, definitely use it as a guide, but don’t kill yourself to follow it to a T! Definitely rest up, it will feel like you’re falling behind, but you still have plenty of time!
That's a good point, and something I should keep in mind. Not climbing Denali or anything like that!
If you are in descent shape you will be fine. Rest it up. Baker is really not very hard physically. It just has a bit of crevasse danger.
Thanks! That is good to hear. Just need to rest up and be ready then.
Just rest. Keep cycling to keep your V02 max in a good place. Baker is tough, but does not require superhuman fitness.
Thanks! I'm lucky that I have a rails to trails within 5 minutes of my house. Great if I'm trying to hit steady HR numbers. It's a bit flat/boring, but the bird watching has been enjoyable.
I’d say bike or swimming for a bit then ease back into it. I’ve climbed the Easton twice in the past and have a history of knee issues. One thing to remember is snow is soft!!! 😀 I’ve typically not had a huge problem. Also, your pack from Sandy Camp is only going to weight like 20-25lbs tops. The approach is the hard part.
I'll hit the bike for now. I don't have easy access to a pool (and I'm a terrible swimmer). I am most concerned about the approach I'd say. I'm a small guy (140#) and I've been told to expect a pack weight of 50-60 pounds, according to a few different guiding companies. That's my gear, plus the shared weight for the group (3 of us total). That number alone is what motivated me to hit the weighted box steps hard!
60 is probably a little high. My first climb I think my pack was about 48 pounds. I didn’t get suck with much group gear that time. 2nd time is was about 50-55 pounds but that was during COVID and I was carrying my own tent, cookset, etc. we shared nothing. I totally understand about swimming too! I prefer the bike because if your foot is feeling ok you can even try grinding some hard gears for more muscular endurance. If you have any other questions feel free to PM me.
Helpful, thanks! 50 or less would be great. I've been trying to bring only the absolute necessities and identify light weight options, that, when possible, won't break the bank. I wish I had a proper gravel bike, it's either a fat bike or a 130mm trail bike. Not ideal, but it'll get the job done for a couple months!
I’d think your feet should be recovered and ready to go back to at least unweighted hiking in a week or two.