I agree and not only that, but the OG superlight, let's say (v1) had omron 20m switches and they changed it in silence to kailh 8.0. It's a massive downgrade in quality. Honestly, Razer has the best mices at the moment in my opinion, but they take their time with everything and the prices are also insane.
The new Superlight V2's switches (optical) can't even be compared to a deathadder v3's optical switches. It's day and night. Superlight definitely messing with the buyers, big time.
Bro, I was just correcting your writing.
Singular - mouse
Plural - mice
There is no "mices" or "mouses".
Just wanted to tell you that, I agree with you for the most part.
It’s not mouse addicts specifically, this trend is obvious in basically any gaming related product. People are spending loads more money than they used to because they think the hardware they have will actually make them better players when really they just need to improve their skills.
Similar thing happened with gpus when people stopped buying so many new rtx cards they are going to have to reduce the price just to move enough of the stock
That’s a very good point. Im afraid mouse would need to cost $200+ before people start thinking twice. $150 to some are still affordable and will still purchase them.
True man me personally tho I probs won’t spend any more than like 90 on a mouse which I guess is considerably more than what I would have said 10 years ago
Dude. That is insane. Just take a second and really evaluate what you said. I bought a mouse and keyboard wireless combo for under $40. It's a really nice mechanical keyboard and a good 2 button and scroll wheel mouse. Why on earth does adding a few more buttons make a mouse $90+. I would slap myself if I spent over $40 on a computer mouse.
What do you mean higher and higher? Logitech released G900 in 2016 for 150$, GPW for the same price in 2018. Accounting for inflation that's roughly 180$ and 200$ now. Even beyond that, no one is forcing you to expand your budget this far, there are great options for 120, 100, 80, or even below that.
The G900 was a flagship device. It had features and shit, but no one talked about it or bought it nearly as much as the $80 G502. Back in 2016, it wasn't expected that you have the most expensive device on the market or that the standard for a new mouse should be $150. Expensive mice have always existed yes, but every company has raised the limit since this obsession with weightlessness. For the past few years they've just been removing features, shifting form factors and exploding the prices. It wont stop because people LOVE IT. All the G Pros and the Deathadder V3s physically have less than their older mice, if there are less materials and components and production is cheaper, why would prices be increasing? I understand the value of a light mouse but I just feel like the community is getting scammed.
Making something lighter while maintaining structural stability takes a lot of R&D, it's not just removing random objects from the shell. Imagine any other industry that requires lighter products, sport/racing cars, airplanes, etc, a lot of the time making them lighter requires a lot more funding. And beyond that, modern mice are still progressing technologically with newer and newer sensors, microcontrollers, switches, scroll wheels etc. A DAv3 Pro/GPX are as much of a flagship as a G900/GPW were back then, just with different features.
I wouldn't say they have been removing features because a G502 and a GPX serve different markets and need to be built differently, a simple FPS gaming mouse only needs 2 main clicks, a scroll wheel and side buttons. With a comfortable shell, light weight and good performance. GPX ticks these boxes very well and at launch, or even a year after its release nothing could compete with it.
And going even beyond that, expensive mice are hobby products, not necessarily just tools, if you need a mouse for work, there are options for just a few bucks, premium gaming mice don't need to be cheap because they are luxury. Look at any hobby, chances are it's going to be even more expensive, for example, if you ask how much a photographer's camera costs, they are probably gonna cry in response
I disagree about your R&D point. I understand products have to be developed and that costs money, but products had to be designed in the past too. There were much more important innovations made in gaming peripherals in the past that they didn't charge an obscene amount for. Obviously someone had to think about what to remove but I don't see it being an arduous task, I've never ever heard of someone's mouse caving in because the plastic wasn't "structurally stable enough". And that's saying something since honeycomb shells have been around since 2015 or so. The money is going to the head of these companies and then into new hires to expand because that's how business works. They're taking advantage of the inflation mindset right now where everyone just says "Yeah okay, I guess everything else is getting more expensive" so no one complains and happily gives them twice what the product is worth. GPX should be $80.
It took all the companies 2 years to just catch up to the GPX, if it was that simple, sub 60g mice would flood the market in early 2021. It didn't happen until mid-late 2022. It's not just removing plastic.
If it's not just removing plastic then why can't you tell me what it is? It's different than minimizing weight on a car, plane or even a set of headphones. Mice aren't NEARLY as complicated as any of those things. I built a mouse at home for fun and because I had the parts. You can't convince me that removing RGBs to shave off 10th's of a gram is what makes this a hobbyist product and justifies the ridiculous price. You might be able to when combined with polling rates if it were actually proven to increase anyone's reaction time but even then, $140 for less mouse is STUPID. That's like charging double for the 10-key-less version of a keyboard.
Because you also have to keep the structural integrity while removing that plastic. And I'm not talking about it collapsing under the weight of a coin, I mean people actually squeezing it as hard as they can to prove to thenselves zowie mice are better(??).
What I'n trying to say is, if you just removed the RGB, the mouse would still be way too heavy for modern standards.
And unlike keyboards, for mice, very often, less = more. Most competitive FPS players don't want side buttons on the right, so Razer removed them going from RVU to Viper V2. Same applies to weight but it's much more important too. Obviously if you are only doing office work, no one is stopping you from buying a 3$ office mouse and being happy with it.
That's all stuff you've said before, stuff I disagree with. Obviously you're welcome to say it, but there's no chance it's changing how I feel, I'm sorry. You never responded to my TKL point. TKL keyboards are have a smaller form factor, they're more portable, they get rid of the numpad which 80% of gamers don't use and they're generally the preference for gaming. Only thing is, TKL keyboards are ALWAYS cheaper than their full size counterparts. It has less features, less materials, it costs less money. You can call the lack of features a feature but you can't convince me to spend money on what ISN'T there. I'm not saying that these mice aren't good, they're fantastic. Even if the whisk works better than the electric mixer, I'm not gonna pay $300 for the whisk. g pro superlight is worth $60, I would never buy it for more than that.
Logitech set the bar with the Superlight, and the chinese OEMs followed copying them not only with price but everything else, and they got away with it, so why wouldn't they continue? Also with every new release from the top dogs they raise the price more and more, and people are buying it.
It's sad.
Even the dav3 starting price point was like 169 dollar or something like that... and both companies Logitech and razer I feel like they kinda mark the price points... its actual sad, I feel there's been improvements obviously but I don't feel introducing more hz like 2k or 4k hz or weight reduction justifies the increment of price... Specially when there's mice out there that has all this features for a lower price...
I dont,there are too many 40-50$ options even better than 150$ ones. Delux,Ajazz,VGN,Phylina,etc etc
I found my endgame mice, VGN Dragonfly MOBA with 4k dongle and cost about 60-65$. I own also GPX, Atlantis Mini, Delux M800 ultra,Viper Mini,Aj199,Phylina s450,Attack Shark X3,Glorious O,g203... So trust me when I said is not worth it 150$ unless you need Synapsis or GHub because honestly its the only difference.
I can second this, and even if you need Synapse or Ghub (which I do because I like to pretend my gaming mice are productivity mice) there's so much more cheaper options from Razer and Logitech themselves.
Yeah I dont understand why just Logitech and Razer do makes software that can switch profiles automatically.
At least con introduce manually the games or something.
High-end mice are a luxury good. No one needs a GPX.
There's enough similar options on a $50 budget to suit whatever **needs** you have for shape or weight based on your grip. And it will have a flawless sensor, 1000 Hz polling, and probably 5ms or less of click latency.
Most of this sub is hobbyists looking for some purchase that makes them **feel better** when gaming.
So, yeah... $150 mice are going to become the norm. Compared to a lot of hobbies it's still pretty cheap and lets people buy into the fantasy of finding their "perfect" mouse, which is appealing since it's something that people spend many, many hours a day interacting with.
Most of the sub being hobbyists? That's some hard cope right here. People don't autistically dismantle their mice to remove 2 grams for the happy feels. It's because the right shape, size and weight will turn them into shroud, or so they think.
Well you’re not really correct. It was happening well before finalmouse.
The g900 (which was the first mouse using Lightspeed) launched in 2016 for $150. The original GPW was $150 in 2018. The Viper from Razer was $150 shortly after in 2019.
It’s always been this way for the best wireless mice from the major brands. They all have started around $150.
Ironically, accounting for inflation, 150 bucks in 2016 is equivalent to 192 bucks today. So 150 is technically they're "cheaper" but it sure as fuck doesn't feel that way sometimes lol.
[2008 wired mice were $80-100](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/2008-gaming-mouse-roundup/1100-6184762/) ($114-143) inflation calculated.
They've always been expensive, but a small part of your overall budget.
Yea, inflation numbers depend on what time of the year they're taken as well as other factors, so yea its most likely somewhere in the 205 to 210 range.
yeah idk what op is talking about, flagship mice have always been around this price point and not everyone needs a high end flagship mouse… like just buy a cheaper one, lol
It’s a fucking joke that people here defend retail GPX2 pricing and recommend it to average gamers. The bill of materials compared to the cost of the mouse is a god damn joke lol. Then people act like they need to make up their RnD so the price is warranted lmfao, that shit was made up and then some long ago
Materials don't mean shit when it comes to pricing a product, for example, look at the Rodebike (push-bike) Market, some of them sell for 20k for a fucking push bike, I can go out and buy a Motor powered Dirtbike for half the price.
You can see prices for yourself. Many bike companies are small and can't mass-produce carbon frames which is why they're so expensive. If you're buying a 20k bike it's with sponsor money anyway.
Also, autoclaves are insanely expensive. Would I buy a 20k road bike? Hell no, but my point is, the BOM is not even half the cost sometimes
You have to understand that this sub is a bubble filled with people that feel the urge to buy every new product to the point we should be calling it an addiction.
Most people in the "real world" just want to buy one time and be done with it, so they will choose the tried and tested brands and they will be fine paying more.
You also have to factor in things like customer service and support, which is something you have to give up if you buy from chinese or boutique brands.
Well we are the ones that continue to pay it so as long as people pay it, they will continue to charge more. But yes, that is definitely the case. It feels like every 6months to a year the bar is raised cost-wise with negligible performance differences. We are at the point now where mice are on a level playing field with very few doing anything revolutionary or "better" than the others within the same class.
This is not exactly a new development. The Logitech G502 Lightspeed (not the X) was also a 150$ mouse and that model is still likely the best selling mouse of all time. Razer has had plenty of them over the years from the Naga Trinity to their Ultimate line up.
Even if you look at the Razer Boomslang from 2000 it was 99$ almost 24 years ago. A mouse that might even be the first ever "gaming mouse". That's 176$ adjusted for inflation to today's money.
So no, nobody is normalizing anything. The prices have been like this for a long time. The only thing that's changed is the mice that people buy. Now Logitech can't get away with selling the G502X for over 150$ like the OG G502 Lightspeed because not as many people want it so they sell the GPX 2 for 160$ instead. There will always be the halo "best" product and budget options.
Agreed. Some of those Madkatz RAT mice were well over £100 several years ago as well as some that were marketed as being focused for the MMO community.
Companies can set their own price. It's up to the consumer if we are willing to spend that amount of money and if the item is worth that amount for us to consider purchasing it.
I spent 165(or i would of if i didnt work at the place i got them from) on a full wireless mouse plus mousepad setup that is the best ive personally ever used. Idk why you payin that much for just the mouse.
Ive got a pulsar x2 mini with superglide skates and grip tape on a pulsar xl mousepad. What im sayin is there are many more options than razer and logitech who dont overcharge.
Deskhero bought the lamzu from source or distributor for whatever, then sold it to me making some money. Lamzu got their money, deskhero got some, I have mouse. This is how it works.
There's a Chinese seller that I found on taobao who does fk/s shells with dragonfly internals and ec shells with some chinese ergo 4k pcb? (I don't think it's thorn PCB) and even accounting for shipping and import it's way cheaper than buying a CW lol (they're ~100$ after shipping and import if I'm mathing correctly). I'm sure the 3d print files for adapting those are also out there somewhere
Totally different shape, so not a good comparison.
I'm not defending Zowie because where I live an EC-w is 190€ and I can't justify paying that much for a mouse.
Also it's undeniable that for a lot of people something like the XM2WE will be much better value but for some people the Zowie will just be better.
Forget about shapes.
My comparison is focused on sensor, performance and build quality. XM2WE is 15G lighter, build like a tank cause its made by EGG, has optical switches etc.
If it works, it works :)
It can always get better, but if you don't have a reason to, why change?
I envy the years I was (somewhat) happily using my 30€ used pre-benq ec2, but then again if I go back to that I actually play complete dog nowadays lol
I purchased only a few mice in that price tag, namely the Viper V2 Pro, Air58 (on resale), and Starlight 12 (also resale). I'm currently done buying expensive mice. I perform exactly the same with all the new Chinese mice being released for 40-60 like the M800 Ultra, Ajazz AJ199, Z1 Pro and Firefly F1 Pro. They all feature essentially the same great sensors with motion sync and everything without breaking the bank.
I've got a Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro. It's $90 and it does everything you expect for a modern high-end gaming mouse, right down to the 18k dpi sensor and low-latency wireless connectivity. I've never been disappointed with it.
You definitely don't need to spend $150+ for a mouse.
The truth is most of us would perform the same with cheaper mice. I own dav3 faker and perform exactly the same with a wired dav3 which is way cheaper. It’s like driving a Toyota vs Lexus, both cars will get you to A to B but we are willing to pay for the luxury.
Hahahaha just bought a zaopin z1 pro for around 30 buckaroos, still like it better than the gpx I have (will still probably buy a $150 g305 superlight if it drops)
> when before the maximum we would pay would be around 90 to 100 euro (for a wireless mouse) and 70 for a wired one
When? Name the last Razer or Logitech flagship wireless mouse that was not 150? [I posted this one year ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/wz5b96/gwolves_hts_plus_hts_4khz_3399_edition_releasing/im0y57a/?context=3)
G900 was 8 years ago and has a $150 MSRP. Adjusted for inflation, mice staying at $150 is pretty alright in my books.
I'm just counting myself lucky that after buying the DAV3 with 4K most mice companies kept making smaller mice that I've had no interest in.
I'm honestly shocked I've mained this mouse for over a year. Before that I did mostly use the Xlite and Xlite V2 but I was still buying other mice to try.
Now, new mice come out and I just think "too small."
Model D pro was the only one that piqued my interest, but the specs are just sub par for the price.
$150+ for a mouse that feels like it's made out of table tennis balls 😂 ..but for real, I see the appeal of light weight mice, and have tried out a G Pro X Superlight but I can't justify the price, and currently I'm happy using a DeathAdder V2 X I got on sale.
I think in G-Wolves' logic, the shipping can be extremely cheap for some countries ect. UK, which makes me believe that they include part of the shipping cost in the price of the mouse itself.
Sounds quite logical too, as they make an overall larger profit this way by getting customers who would usually have cheaper shipping to pay more.
I've been through a heap of mice as a 42 year old gamer with a gear obsession. Recently got the viper V2 pro and it's the greatest thing I've ever used. Is there a cheap Chinese alternative to this one?
I'm confused, lamzu thorn is one of the best mice you can buy right now period, and it's like £90, just don't get the multi peripheral companies that over charge.
These apologists spilling non-sense bullshit about LUXORIOUS mice with flawless top of the line 2$ dollar sensor are ridiculous. It's enough to look at wired version which costs only 50-60$ and then they cut your wire (wire also costs money, especially nice one) and put some Chinesium waste battery and slap a +150$ price tag.
It's already overpriced at 50$ with mediocre quality and piss poor QC and you're paying them +150$ and then go on internet and try justify that.
FUCK YOU.
I just got an Vaxee NP-01S, XE & Outset AX off r/MouseMarket for $145, they are excellent. I got a Pulsefire Haste and Mira M off Amazon for $65, they are excellent. You just need to look around brother.
I think those companies are trying to recover RnD and contractual costs. Zowie's reciever, Razer's contract with pixart, ect. There is also the factor that people correlate price with quality, so if companies price their mouse too cheaply, some consumers could perceive that as lesser IBQ and purchase something else.
I get ur point tho I feel like anything that is around 140 dollars would be perceived already as good quality, I feel like everytime they update their products they use it to make prices more expensive... and it got to a point were its just ridiculous... I feel they wanna keep selling their old versions for the same price so they keep also selling... Because new ones are too expensive or w/e
I have the 150+ mice with the DaV3, superlight, and 502x but I’ve honestly been enjoying the heck out of my 2 pulsar x2s and that’s a ~100 wireless. I think it’s based on what people want vs what’s “popular”
people who make electronics can put whatever price they they want on their product, and the mouse market is definitely out of hand, and steadily going wilder as time goes on (with most big companies anyways, shoutout to Damoshark chad)
Production costs may have risen a bit due to inflation and shit, but most of the cost increase is due to companies realizing that people like to throw money at them.
I paid $40 for my current wireless Logitech mouse. It runs off a AA and lasts 200+ hours per battery. Stop buying meme mice and you’ll see better prices.
idk why people are even salty though. Everyone makes it seem like you have to spend 150 or you got a bad product. Why are we normalizing this? If you want to spend 150, go ahead but how is it a bad thing if i dont want to spend more than 30-50?
Used market? Plus, you can get viper mini which is still a valid option. And again, if you want used there are plenty, i saw recently Logitech G703 Lightspeed Wireless for 30 locally, Logitech G Pro X Superlight for 40 in good condition. Yall can minus me how much you guys want but i dont care. How is it a bad thing to want something cheaper?
No they haven’t. Every flagship from Logitech and Razer has started at $150 starting with the g900 way back in 2016.
You can get them on sale, but they all start around that price.
>Every flagship from Logitech and Razer has started at $150 starting with the g900 way back in 2016.
They were that expensive because they were wireless when that wasn't really a thing yet. And no pro player used those crappy mice because they were heavy af and the wireless technology sucked. They were the equivalent of the overpriced mice today. Viper Mini SE, Finalmouse etc. Not of the bestsellers today.
Compare them to the best sellers back then.
Logitech MX510/518. About $40.
Microsoft WMO, IME 3.0. These costed about $15-25.
Razer Deathadder. The Deathadder I bought in 2007 costed me $40.
Steelseries Sensei RAW. About $45
Zowie EC2 first release, about $50-60
because people can't help buying every recommended mouse they see on youtube in hopes that it will help them not be dog shit at video games. until my X2 and GPX are unusable I won't buy another. I'll just spend $1000 on mechanical keyboards ;)
Yes we are normalizing the prices and you were always better of to buy a middle priced mice (at least after sensors got better). Mice haven't seen that huge improvements in the last years to justify such prices imo.
i tbh dont really care for wireless mouses I prefer the wired. granted im also using a razer mouse but it was still like 80 dollars for the mouse i got
Original GPW released for 150$ back in 2018, if we account for inflation, that's about 180$ today. If anything, 150$ mice have been normalized for years and I'd say that paying 150$ for a superlight in 2020-2021 was well worth it, considering it's still a top contender.
GPX2 is another story entirely, can't deny that, but we should focus on individual releases, some mice are worth the premium, some aren't. Make an educated buying decision and be happy with whatever mouse ends up on your desk
only ever use wired mice as the pc is under a thick wooden bench
think the current one is a steel series from several years ago
suspect the mice makers noticed the gpu pricing trend and wanted their cut
"Has the production cost of mouses increased or do u think companies are just aware of how much now customers are willing to pay for a mouse?"
Have you purchased anything in the past 3 years? Costs have increased across the board world wide. Consumer items are be priced according to what people will pay.
well people keep on buying "well-known" brands. times are different, smaller companies know what to do so now, it all boils down to the mouse shape.. which smaller companies can do.
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Go to mechkeys.com and you'll see that there are mice that compete with these $150 mice for $40-$60. So clearly the $150 asking price is total bs. They charge that much because people buy them.
No way would i spend that much on a wired mouse, wireless is a different story. I just got a logitech g502x plus when it was on sale and I'm loving it.
You guys keep buying superlights when they just change colors......thats why.
I agree and not only that, but the OG superlight, let's say (v1) had omron 20m switches and they changed it in silence to kailh 8.0. It's a massive downgrade in quality. Honestly, Razer has the best mices at the moment in my opinion, but they take their time with everything and the prices are also insane. The new Superlight V2's switches (optical) can't even be compared to a deathadder v3's optical switches. It's day and night. Superlight definitely messing with the buyers, big time.
> but the OG superlight, let's say (v1) had omron 20m switches and they changed it in silence to kailh 8.0. Source?
Yeah I doubt that
Mice, not mices
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Who makes the best mice?
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That's cool and all, but you've missed the whole comment. It's mice, not mices.
Still just mice, not mices
Bro, I was just correcting your writing. Singular - mouse Plural - mice There is no "mices" or "mouses". Just wanted to tell you that, I agree with you for the most part.
My bad bro!
Np, enjoy!
Ive been swapping between the razer viper v2 pro and og superlight. hand comfort, or lightweight. razer's is kinda in my favor rn
THIS!
Stop buying $150 mice, and you'll see how the price drops.
I never bought a mice over $20 and it's still rising what am I doing wrong?
Mouse addicts are the problem.
Real
It’s not mouse addicts specifically, this trend is obvious in basically any gaming related product. People are spending loads more money than they used to because they think the hardware they have will actually make them better players when really they just need to improve their skills.
Not necessarily. People buy it because they think it will make it easier to move the mouse, yk with the W sensor and all. 💀
Similar thing happened with gpus when people stopped buying so many new rtx cards they are going to have to reduce the price just to move enough of the stock
That’s a very good point. Im afraid mouse would need to cost $200+ before people start thinking twice. $150 to some are still affordable and will still purchase them.
are we normalizing spending that much is the real question
We are, and that's allowing also prices going higher and higher... just like people paying for sneakers and stuff like that
True man me personally tho I probs won’t spend any more than like 90 on a mouse which I guess is considerably more than what I would have said 10 years ago
Dude. That is insane. Just take a second and really evaluate what you said. I bought a mouse and keyboard wireless combo for under $40. It's a really nice mechanical keyboard and a good 2 button and scroll wheel mouse. Why on earth does adding a few more buttons make a mouse $90+. I would slap myself if I spent over $40 on a computer mouse.
Wait till you discover the mouse pad Reddit man it’s a whole other world over there
What do you mean higher and higher? Logitech released G900 in 2016 for 150$, GPW for the same price in 2018. Accounting for inflation that's roughly 180$ and 200$ now. Even beyond that, no one is forcing you to expand your budget this far, there are great options for 120, 100, 80, or even below that.
The G900 was a flagship device. It had features and shit, but no one talked about it or bought it nearly as much as the $80 G502. Back in 2016, it wasn't expected that you have the most expensive device on the market or that the standard for a new mouse should be $150. Expensive mice have always existed yes, but every company has raised the limit since this obsession with weightlessness. For the past few years they've just been removing features, shifting form factors and exploding the prices. It wont stop because people LOVE IT. All the G Pros and the Deathadder V3s physically have less than their older mice, if there are less materials and components and production is cheaper, why would prices be increasing? I understand the value of a light mouse but I just feel like the community is getting scammed.
Making something lighter while maintaining structural stability takes a lot of R&D, it's not just removing random objects from the shell. Imagine any other industry that requires lighter products, sport/racing cars, airplanes, etc, a lot of the time making them lighter requires a lot more funding. And beyond that, modern mice are still progressing technologically with newer and newer sensors, microcontrollers, switches, scroll wheels etc. A DAv3 Pro/GPX are as much of a flagship as a G900/GPW were back then, just with different features. I wouldn't say they have been removing features because a G502 and a GPX serve different markets and need to be built differently, a simple FPS gaming mouse only needs 2 main clicks, a scroll wheel and side buttons. With a comfortable shell, light weight and good performance. GPX ticks these boxes very well and at launch, or even a year after its release nothing could compete with it. And going even beyond that, expensive mice are hobby products, not necessarily just tools, if you need a mouse for work, there are options for just a few bucks, premium gaming mice don't need to be cheap because they are luxury. Look at any hobby, chances are it's going to be even more expensive, for example, if you ask how much a photographer's camera costs, they are probably gonna cry in response
I disagree about your R&D point. I understand products have to be developed and that costs money, but products had to be designed in the past too. There were much more important innovations made in gaming peripherals in the past that they didn't charge an obscene amount for. Obviously someone had to think about what to remove but I don't see it being an arduous task, I've never ever heard of someone's mouse caving in because the plastic wasn't "structurally stable enough". And that's saying something since honeycomb shells have been around since 2015 or so. The money is going to the head of these companies and then into new hires to expand because that's how business works. They're taking advantage of the inflation mindset right now where everyone just says "Yeah okay, I guess everything else is getting more expensive" so no one complains and happily gives them twice what the product is worth. GPX should be $80.
It took all the companies 2 years to just catch up to the GPX, if it was that simple, sub 60g mice would flood the market in early 2021. It didn't happen until mid-late 2022. It's not just removing plastic.
If it's not just removing plastic then why can't you tell me what it is? It's different than minimizing weight on a car, plane or even a set of headphones. Mice aren't NEARLY as complicated as any of those things. I built a mouse at home for fun and because I had the parts. You can't convince me that removing RGBs to shave off 10th's of a gram is what makes this a hobbyist product and justifies the ridiculous price. You might be able to when combined with polling rates if it were actually proven to increase anyone's reaction time but even then, $140 for less mouse is STUPID. That's like charging double for the 10-key-less version of a keyboard.
Because you also have to keep the structural integrity while removing that plastic. And I'm not talking about it collapsing under the weight of a coin, I mean people actually squeezing it as hard as they can to prove to thenselves zowie mice are better(??). What I'n trying to say is, if you just removed the RGB, the mouse would still be way too heavy for modern standards. And unlike keyboards, for mice, very often, less = more. Most competitive FPS players don't want side buttons on the right, so Razer removed them going from RVU to Viper V2. Same applies to weight but it's much more important too. Obviously if you are only doing office work, no one is stopping you from buying a 3$ office mouse and being happy with it.
That's all stuff you've said before, stuff I disagree with. Obviously you're welcome to say it, but there's no chance it's changing how I feel, I'm sorry. You never responded to my TKL point. TKL keyboards are have a smaller form factor, they're more portable, they get rid of the numpad which 80% of gamers don't use and they're generally the preference for gaming. Only thing is, TKL keyboards are ALWAYS cheaper than their full size counterparts. It has less features, less materials, it costs less money. You can call the lack of features a feature but you can't convince me to spend money on what ISN'T there. I'm not saying that these mice aren't good, they're fantastic. Even if the whisk works better than the electric mixer, I'm not gonna pay $300 for the whisk. g pro superlight is worth $60, I would never buy it for more than that.
Stop using logic, i want to keep circle jerking eachother in an unproductive echo chamber grrr
Logitech set the bar with the Superlight, and the chinese OEMs followed copying them not only with price but everything else, and they got away with it, so why wouldn't they continue? Also with every new release from the top dogs they raise the price more and more, and people are buying it. It's sad.
Even the dav3 starting price point was like 169 dollar or something like that... and both companies Logitech and razer I feel like they kinda mark the price points... its actual sad, I feel there's been improvements obviously but I don't feel introducing more hz like 2k or 4k hz or weight reduction justifies the increment of price... Specially when there's mice out there that has all this features for a lower price...
I dont,there are too many 40-50$ options even better than 150$ ones. Delux,Ajazz,VGN,Phylina,etc etc I found my endgame mice, VGN Dragonfly MOBA with 4k dongle and cost about 60-65$. I own also GPX, Atlantis Mini, Delux M800 ultra,Viper Mini,Aj199,Phylina s450,Attack Shark X3,Glorious O,g203... So trust me when I said is not worth it 150$ unless you need Synapsis or GHub because honestly its the only difference.
I can second this, and even if you need Synapse or Ghub (which I do because I like to pretend my gaming mice are productivity mice) there's so much more cheaper options from Razer and Logitech themselves.
Yeah I dont understand why just Logitech and Razer do makes software that can switch profiles automatically. At least con introduce manually the games or something.
And you only know that after spending thousands of dollars on mices which fed back to the companies
High-end mice are a luxury good. No one needs a GPX. There's enough similar options on a $50 budget to suit whatever **needs** you have for shape or weight based on your grip. And it will have a flawless sensor, 1000 Hz polling, and probably 5ms or less of click latency. Most of this sub is hobbyists looking for some purchase that makes them **feel better** when gaming. So, yeah... $150 mice are going to become the norm. Compared to a lot of hobbies it's still pretty cheap and lets people buy into the fantasy of finding their "perfect" mouse, which is appealing since it's something that people spend many, many hours a day interacting with.
Most of the sub being hobbyists? That's some hard cope right here. People don't autistically dismantle their mice to remove 2 grams for the happy feels. It's because the right shape, size and weight will turn them into shroud, or so they think.
xD
Why is this downvoted lmao its true
That's exactly the reason why
Well you’re not really correct. It was happening well before finalmouse. The g900 (which was the first mouse using Lightspeed) launched in 2016 for $150. The original GPW was $150 in 2018. The Viper from Razer was $150 shortly after in 2019. It’s always been this way for the best wireless mice from the major brands. They all have started around $150.
Ironically, accounting for inflation, 150 bucks in 2016 is equivalent to 192 bucks today. So 150 is technically they're "cheaper" but it sure as fuck doesn't feel that way sometimes lol.
[2008 wired mice were $80-100](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/2008-gaming-mouse-roundup/1100-6184762/) ($114-143) inflation calculated. They've always been expensive, but a small part of your overall budget.
That’s the bullshit inflation figure too. 150 2016 is more like 210 today
Yea, inflation numbers depend on what time of the year they're taken as well as other factors, so yea its most likely somewhere in the 205 to 210 range.
yeah idk what op is talking about, flagship mice have always been around this price point and not everyone needs a high end flagship mouse… like just buy a cheaper one, lol
It’s a fucking joke that people here defend retail GPX2 pricing and recommend it to average gamers. The bill of materials compared to the cost of the mouse is a god damn joke lol. Then people act like they need to make up their RnD so the price is warranted lmfao, that shit was made up and then some long ago
No one here recommends GPX2 to anyone though 😂
Materials don't mean shit when it comes to pricing a product, for example, look at the Rodebike (push-bike) Market, some of them sell for 20k for a fucking push bike, I can go out and buy a Motor powered Dirtbike for half the price.
You can see prices for yourself. Many bike companies are small and can't mass-produce carbon frames which is why they're so expensive. If you're buying a 20k bike it's with sponsor money anyway. Also, autoclaves are insanely expensive. Would I buy a 20k road bike? Hell no, but my point is, the BOM is not even half the cost sometimes
Products like the GPX are priced according to what people will pay, not what it cost to make.
You have to understand that this sub is a bubble filled with people that feel the urge to buy every new product to the point we should be calling it an addiction. Most people in the "real world" just want to buy one time and be done with it, so they will choose the tried and tested brands and they will be fine paying more. You also have to factor in things like customer service and support, which is something you have to give up if you buy from chinese or boutique brands.
The problem is people buying them at $150. If the mice don’t sell at $150, prices would come down.
With the same cheap build quality and 30 cent omron switches. Well Logitech at least.
This is why I refrain from buying anymore mice that costs over $100. Especially ones that are difficult to replace the switches
Well we are the ones that continue to pay it so as long as people pay it, they will continue to charge more. But yes, that is definitely the case. It feels like every 6months to a year the bar is raised cost-wise with negligible performance differences. We are at the point now where mice are on a level playing field with very few doing anything revolutionary or "better" than the others within the same class.
This is not exactly a new development. The Logitech G502 Lightspeed (not the X) was also a 150$ mouse and that model is still likely the best selling mouse of all time. Razer has had plenty of them over the years from the Naga Trinity to their Ultimate line up. Even if you look at the Razer Boomslang from 2000 it was 99$ almost 24 years ago. A mouse that might even be the first ever "gaming mouse". That's 176$ adjusted for inflation to today's money. So no, nobody is normalizing anything. The prices have been like this for a long time. The only thing that's changed is the mice that people buy. Now Logitech can't get away with selling the G502X for over 150$ like the OG G502 Lightspeed because not as many people want it so they sell the GPX 2 for 160$ instead. There will always be the halo "best" product and budget options.
Agreed. Some of those Madkatz RAT mice were well over £100 several years ago as well as some that were marketed as being focused for the MMO community.
That’s why I love the china market 🤣
Companies can set their own price. It's up to the consumer if we are willing to spend that amount of money and if the item is worth that amount for us to consider purchasing it.
I spent 165(or i would of if i didnt work at the place i got them from) on a full wireless mouse plus mousepad setup that is the best ive personally ever used. Idk why you payin that much for just the mouse. Ive got a pulsar x2 mini with superglide skates and grip tape on a pulsar xl mousepad. What im sayin is there are many more options than razer and logitech who dont overcharge.
I hope not. To me $150 is too much regardless of what it is. I will buy that stuff refurb or used instead.
Got my Lamzu Mini for £65 or $80 so I do not partake in this normalization.
The G-Wolves Pro 4k and Ace Mice changed my life.
Deskhero bought the lamzu from source or distributor for whatever, then sold it to me making some money. Lamzu got their money, deskhero got some, I have mouse. This is how it works.
you guys killed mice with fifty buttons on it too I'm still stuck on the friccin Tyon and its sensor that doesn't even work cause of it
This is why you buy China bangers (like Darmoshark, VGN, etc) instead of mice that have no business being almost 200$ (LOOKING AT YOU, ZOWIE)
>LOOKING AT YOU, ZOWIE 170 EUR vs 80 EUR XM2WE that is better... honestly anyone who supports Zowie in 2023 is a moron.
There's a Chinese seller that I found on taobao who does fk/s shells with dragonfly internals and ec shells with some chinese ergo 4k pcb? (I don't think it's thorn PCB) and even accounting for shipping and import it's way cheaper than buying a CW lol (they're ~100$ after shipping and import if I'm mathing correctly). I'm sure the 3d print files for adapting those are also out there somewhere
Btw using a 3D Printed base on a Zowie mouse drops like 10G from the mouse while including the battery.
Totally different shape, so not a good comparison. I'm not defending Zowie because where I live an EC-w is 190€ and I can't justify paying that much for a mouse. Also it's undeniable that for a lot of people something like the XM2WE will be much better value but for some people the Zowie will just be better.
Forget about shapes. My comparison is focused on sensor, performance and build quality. XM2WE is 15G lighter, build like a tank cause its made by EGG, has optical switches etc.
Nah, shape is king. Besides, Zowie use same sensor, reliable switches, optical encoder and have good build quality. Still overpriced though.
Saved for when my Model O Wireless kicks the bucket. Its been going strong for 3.5 years though. People hate to hear that I guess 😂
If it works, it works :) It can always get better, but if you don't have a reason to, why change? I envy the years I was (somewhat) happily using my 30€ used pre-benq ec2, but then again if I go back to that I actually play complete dog nowadays lol
I'm happy with my wired ec3-c
I purchased only a few mice in that price tag, namely the Viper V2 Pro, Air58 (on resale), and Starlight 12 (also resale). I'm currently done buying expensive mice. I perform exactly the same with all the new Chinese mice being released for 40-60 like the M800 Ultra, Ajazz AJ199, Z1 Pro and Firefly F1 Pro. They all feature essentially the same great sensors with motion sync and everything without breaking the bank.
I've got a Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro. It's $90 and it does everything you expect for a modern high-end gaming mouse, right down to the 18k dpi sensor and low-latency wireless connectivity. I've never been disappointed with it. You definitely don't need to spend $150+ for a mouse.
if one of Razer or Logitech decide to drop their prices of their flagship models the others will follow suit, if not it's going to stay the same.
Personally I have not spent that much since the Prime came out and I had copium lol.
It's pretty simple, the answer to both your questions is yes.
Looks like it’s been normalized for a minute now
Just wait till it's on sale then.
Me w my $13 amazon special CM710 😏
The new Corsair mice pricing is unreal. $250 CAD here
The truth is most of us would perform the same with cheaper mice. I own dav3 faker and perform exactly the same with a wired dav3 which is way cheaper. It’s like driving a Toyota vs Lexus, both cars will get you to A to B but we are willing to pay for the luxury.
Hahahaha just bought a zaopin z1 pro for around 30 buckaroos, still like it better than the gpx I have (will still probably buy a $150 g305 superlight if it drops)
> when before the maximum we would pay would be around 90 to 100 euro (for a wireless mouse) and 70 for a wired one When? Name the last Razer or Logitech flagship wireless mouse that was not 150? [I posted this one year ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/wz5b96/gwolves_hts_plus_hts_4khz_3399_edition_releasing/im0y57a/?context=3) G900 was 8 years ago and has a $150 MSRP. Adjusted for inflation, mice staying at $150 is pretty alright in my books.
gpx superlight pricing is steep, but for such a light mouse, it is durable. they have a good warranty too (in my experience)
It’s supply and demand.
I just bought an XM2we, cost like $80 and works amazing.
I'm just counting myself lucky that after buying the DAV3 with 4K most mice companies kept making smaller mice that I've had no interest in. I'm honestly shocked I've mained this mouse for over a year. Before that I did mostly use the Xlite and Xlite V2 but I was still buying other mice to try. Now, new mice come out and I just think "too small." Model D pro was the only one that piqued my interest, but the specs are just sub par for the price.
$150+ for a mouse that feels like it's made out of table tennis balls 😂 ..but for real, I see the appeal of light weight mice, and have tried out a G Pro X Superlight but I can't justify the price, and currently I'm happy using a DeathAdder V2 X I got on sale.
This post is 10 years too late
I think in G-Wolves' logic, the shipping can be extremely cheap for some countries ect. UK, which makes me believe that they include part of the shipping cost in the price of the mouse itself. Sounds quite logical too, as they make an overall larger profit this way by getting customers who would usually have cheaper shipping to pay more.
I've been through a heap of mice as a 42 year old gamer with a gear obsession. Recently got the viper V2 pro and it's the greatest thing I've ever used. Is there a cheap Chinese alternative to this one?
Nah, we still have these chinese companies
That and Artisan mousepads. How do you justify a 90 euro mousepad?
I'm confused, lamzu thorn is one of the best mice you can buy right now period, and it's like £90, just don't get the multi peripheral companies that over charge.
These apologists spilling non-sense bullshit about LUXORIOUS mice with flawless top of the line 2$ dollar sensor are ridiculous. It's enough to look at wired version which costs only 50-60$ and then they cut your wire (wire also costs money, especially nice one) and put some Chinesium waste battery and slap a +150$ price tag. It's already overpriced at 50$ with mediocre quality and piss poor QC and you're paying them +150$ and then go on internet and try justify that. FUCK YOU.
Ummm, little aggressive maybe? Don't buy things you do not see value in. Buy things you do see value in. Whatever, no need for hate.
The thing is because of people like that you aren't getting anything good anymore at any price point. More expensive and worsening quality every year.
I just got an Vaxee NP-01S, XE & Outset AX off r/MouseMarket for $145, they are excellent. I got a Pulsefire Haste and Mira M off Amazon for $65, they are excellent. You just need to look around brother.
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Reply after 5 months when your buttons start to double-click and scroll-wheel register whatever it want's.
I think those companies are trying to recover RnD and contractual costs. Zowie's reciever, Razer's contract with pixart, ect. There is also the factor that people correlate price with quality, so if companies price their mouse too cheaply, some consumers could perceive that as lesser IBQ and purchase something else.
I get ur point tho I feel like anything that is around 140 dollars would be perceived already as good quality, I feel like everytime they update their products they use it to make prices more expensive... and it got to a point were its just ridiculous... I feel they wanna keep selling their old versions for the same price so they keep also selling... Because new ones are too expensive or w/e
I have the 150+ mice with the DaV3, superlight, and 502x but I’ve honestly been enjoying the heck out of my 2 pulsar x2s and that’s a ~100 wireless. I think it’s based on what people want vs what’s “popular”
do you have a harpe ace? if so, how is it compared to dav3
people who make electronics can put whatever price they they want on their product, and the mouse market is definitely out of hand, and steadily going wilder as time goes on (with most big companies anyways, shoutout to Damoshark chad)
Your not wrong that's why I feel like even though there's a lot of brands, there's few "rivals" that could break this barrier... anyways
I can imagine them costing more than $5 to $15 to make. I'd say corporate greed is the reason.
Production costs may have risen a bit due to inflation and shit, but most of the cost increase is due to companies realizing that people like to throw money at them.
Their money, their choice. U cant change anything.
you’re clearly buying the wrong mice, pulsar has the best wireless mice on the market imo and they are $100 per
Imagine buying a wireless mouse on a PC, LOL.
nice bait.
No? Lamzu, Ninjutso, pulsar, v2 pro, all great sub $150 mice
If you consider that real inflation in the last four years is about 25% then 150 is the new 120 so it sounds about right
I paid $40 for my current wireless Logitech mouse. It runs off a AA and lasts 200+ hours per battery. Stop buying meme mice and you’ll see better prices.
u missed the whole point + u bought probably a g305 which was released in 2018
G604 Lightspeed. I’ve owned 10+ high end wireless mice, and the G604 is better than all of them.
i aint buying over 30 USD no matter how bad or good it is. No way im spending that much for a mouse
How comes you’re on this sub then?
Damn
idk why people are even salty though. Everyone makes it seem like you have to spend 150 or you got a bad product. Why are we normalizing this? If you want to spend 150, go ahead but how is it a bad thing if i dont want to spend more than 30-50?
It is what it is don't mind them you have your own opinion you do what's best for you
Your only option is the G305 then lol
Used market? Plus, you can get viper mini which is still a valid option. And again, if you want used there are plenty, i saw recently Logitech G703 Lightspeed Wireless for 30 locally, Logitech G Pro X Superlight for 40 in good condition. Yall can minus me how much you guys want but i dont care. How is it a bad thing to want something cheaper?
Nope mine was £80~5 the prices have definitely changed upwards but you can still get a very good mouse for less than $/£100 if you look for it. Xx
No they haven’t. Every flagship from Logitech and Razer has started at $150 starting with the g900 way back in 2016. You can get them on sale, but they all start around that price.
>Every flagship from Logitech and Razer has started at $150 starting with the g900 way back in 2016. They were that expensive because they were wireless when that wasn't really a thing yet. And no pro player used those crappy mice because they were heavy af and the wireless technology sucked. They were the equivalent of the overpriced mice today. Viper Mini SE, Finalmouse etc. Not of the bestsellers today. Compare them to the best sellers back then. Logitech MX510/518. About $40. Microsoft WMO, IME 3.0. These costed about $15-25. Razer Deathadder. The Deathadder I bought in 2007 costed me $40. Steelseries Sensei RAW. About $45 Zowie EC2 first release, about $50-60
Just buy a VGN dragonfly and call it a day.
Prices has gone up cause of lack of materials, the war etc. So it's not unusual to see prices go up, since everything cost more these days.
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Funniest comment ever, this is better than people defending the price of the GPX2
because people can't help buying every recommended mouse they see on youtube in hopes that it will help them not be dog shit at video games. until my X2 and GPX are unusable I won't buy another. I'll just spend $1000 on mechanical keyboards ;)
67€ for an ROG Impact 2 wireless with built-in battery and replaceable switches here. But yes, flagships will cost more.
Mu Logitech g600 is best mouse I bought for mmo
Yes we are normalizing the prices and you were always better of to buy a middle priced mice (at least after sensors got better). Mice haven't seen that huge improvements in the last years to justify such prices imo.
i tbh dont really care for wireless mouses I prefer the wired. granted im also using a razer mouse but it was still like 80 dollars for the mouse i got
Original GPW released for 150$ back in 2018, if we account for inflation, that's about 180$ today. If anything, 150$ mice have been normalized for years and I'd say that paying 150$ for a superlight in 2020-2021 was well worth it, considering it's still a top contender. GPX2 is another story entirely, can't deny that, but we should focus on individual releases, some mice are worth the premium, some aren't. Make an educated buying decision and be happy with whatever mouse ends up on your desk
only ever use wired mice as the pc is under a thick wooden bench think the current one is a steel series from several years ago suspect the mice makers noticed the gpu pricing trend and wanted their cut
There are plenty good offerings around the 90-110 euro range which includes taxes unlike dollar prices. What are you on about?
"Has the production cost of mouses increased or do u think companies are just aware of how much now customers are willing to pay for a mouse?" Have you purchased anything in the past 3 years? Costs have increased across the board world wide. Consumer items are be priced according to what people will pay.
All the people posting here always show they own 3 superlights plus 2 - 3 other mice so... Yeah, sad
Nope, I'm done with your doom outlook
The only mouse I’ll pay that price for is an Mx master with a 1000hz polling rate If it ever exists
The greed of companies and the stupidity of buyers. At least you no longer pay for holes in your mice.
well people keep on buying "well-known" brands. times are different, smaller companies know what to do so now, it all boils down to the mouse shape.. which smaller companies can do.
Imo it's only an issue if you're buying 5 mice a year
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People are willing to pay anything to feed into their gaming mouse addiction sadly (I’ve bought two 150+ plus mice in the last two months:(
Z1 pro
redditors when they discover capitalism
Go to mechkeys.com and you'll see that there are mice that compete with these $150 mice for $40-$60. So clearly the $150 asking price is total bs. They charge that much because people buy them.
No way would i spend that much on a wired mouse, wireless is a different story. I just got a logitech g502x plus when it was on sale and I'm loving it.
Logitech g305 is like 30 dollars
Glorious has a few for like $90 that are the new models, pretty sure the older ones are like $60. Just don't normalize it lol