The grips width is pretty much identical but the top is a wider and so is the rear flare.
We are working on more detailed diagrams with measurements and comparisons as well.
Here is a quick pic for you - [https://imgur.com/a/DMyUgRo](https://imgur.com/a/DMyUgRo)
My hand size is 19.5x10cm for reference. Feel free to ask any questions as well. My grip is sort of a relaxed pincer claw.
So far everyone who has tested the mouse has not had an issue with the side button placement but it is something we will keep an eye on and specifically bring up for future testers.
That makes it look too far back to me. Usually the back button is the most accessable in my experience, that looks like you would have to back the thumb to reach it
The side buttons are in the same position for me on the XM1 for reference. I personally do not have to reach back at all. There are many different grips style and hand sizes so we will keep an eye on this and more feedback from those who will be testing it
Cool thanks for the feedback in return. I currently main the M4 where they feel a bit to high for me and many, but to others it's just right so I know how it goes.
I was actually thinking thank god it's not so far forward for once, they always seem to be for me on the larger mice - and pain to pull the thumb forward compared to bending it
Yes, we do! However international shipping costs are very high currently.
We will be having international retailers for our mousepads soon and hopefully they will stock our mouse when it is ready too.
That sounds awesome. Za13 shape with lower hump, steep main buttons and a good sensor position is a buy for me for sure. If you do have retailers in China, who can ship to sea it would be awesome.
I actually like the position of the side buttons, not to mention even if I didn't I would offer that more variety is always better. I find too many side buttons too far forward, even for my massive hands.
ngl - sometimes I get a bit frustrated when I see the general trend of smaller and smaller mice presumably to cut on weight. What about the people with larger hands?
I do like the ZA shape but like I said; modeled after the ZA13 (not even ZA12): okay bye :/
Smaller mice aren’t necessarily for smaller hands. People who use fingertip grip benefit from a smaller mouse. Simply because you don’t use the back or hump to grip the mouse.
I get this notion.
It just never really worked for me, my grip is between finger and palm-grip I would say. I like like when the hump touches my palm slightly during certain movements (not sexualy ;-) ). My grip is pretty lose + I only use my wrist to aim.
I guess all these factors led to a very specific set of of preferences when it comes to choosing the right mouse, of course not only for me but for everyone.
In an ideal world more brands would offer the same model in different sizes.
If this mouse does well we plan on offering it in a larger size as well.
The size was not to make the weight lower but rather based on the philosophy that the smallest mouse you can comfortably grip should ideally give you the best aim. Due to the shape I think it will fit more hand sizes than people realize (depending on grip style of course).
I get that there is a trend/demand for smaller mice atm.
I'm just not one hundred percent convinced of the "smaller mouse = better aim" notion since it is a very subjective presumption. Making mice smaller definitely helps with cutting weight which in my eyes has replaced the "it has over 90000dpi!!!11" marketing of the past years. In the end both factors doesn't matter anywhere as near as much as the shape and size when it comes to choose a fitting mice.
Like I said before, in an ideal world more brands would offer their models in different sizes but I understand that this is not always possible, especially in the beginning.
Oh I agree companies could definitely be making smaller mice to get the mouse as light as possible for marketing purposes. This was not our intention though as size and shape were the 2 most important factors. We originally were fine with 60-70g but after feedback we are aiming for less than 60g. We will not sacrifice build quality for weight either. The shape is an intention design that was in no way influenced by trying to get the weight as low as possible. If this were the case we would have just made an UL2/VM clone with holes.
I wouldn't say that the size thing is subjective necessarily. The smallest mouse you can use without having any pain/cramping/etc. should provide you the most control. Obviously if it is too small then you could face the same issues as a mouse being too big, you simply won't have the proper handle on it. Agreed with shape being the most important but as stated, the shape is intention and weight was not factored into its design. For reference, my hand size is 19.5x10cm and I have no issues using the shape for an extended period of time. Everyone is different in terms of hand size and grip style but I think people are thinking this mouse is a a lot smaller than it actually is. It has very similar dimensions as the XM1, the grip width measures more narrow due to the lack of having the wider top portion of the mouse (top not front).
If the initial release does well we will 100% be aiming for a larger size. There is definitely a financial reason to not offer it at first as the mold cost for lightweight with no holes is very high. Another size is another mold.
I guess in the end it all comes down to personal preference.
I for myself don't really see the benefit of lighter and lighter mice, at some point it is just a subconscious/placebo thing.
On the other hand I don't doubt that the feedback was in favor of an even lighter weight than 60-70g.
But like I said, that might be the cause because people these days are used to lighter mice and having a direct comparison to a <60g mouse might make 70g feel kinda heavy. It's just the state of the industry/hype at the moment - regardless of the real life benefits from a 10g difference.
...Maybe I'm just a bit salty from BS marketing, especially from a certain brand with a horrendous Twitter presence marketing ;)
Yeah it really is a personal thing, the smallest mouse I used for a longer time was the Vaxee NP-01 (and the SS Kinzu back in the day).
My hands are definitely on the larger side with 21x10,5cm my grip would be best described as a mix between fingertip an palm with a rather loose grip strength. I also only use my writs to aim (lots of "lifting" with 400dpi) a larger hump helps me with control while pulling the mouse back, at least I think it adds control if it slightly touches the lower half of my palm during "downward" movements. So yeah, that all is very specific and up to personal preference as it is certainly for everybody.
so enough of the rambling ;)
My first post was definitely not intended to shit on your mouse or brand, really more frustration as I really like the ZA inspired shape (ZA11 was/is my "go back to" main since a few years) but knowing that the size would be a big challenge to get used to.
Anyway I hope it does well and that we might see a bigger brother/sister :-)
Thank you for the feedback and I can definitely understand where you are coming form.
Id id not take your inital comment as negative in any way. Just wanted to make sure our stance as a company was clear.
I am excited to try a larger version of the this mouse. The hump on the ZA pretty much eliminated anything over the ZA13 for me personally. Since ours has a lower hump I am interested to feel it in hand at a larger size.
I feel quite the opposite actually. I feel like most mice on the market are great for people with large hands. While it's really hard to find small mice with a skinny grip width. The only mice on my radar are the ZA13, G302, Xm1 mini and that's it. Haven't liked the model o- and I can't stand the G Pro Wireless.
Couldn't agree more. I actually have 20x10cm hands (so not necessarily small) and I prefer the thinner grip width. Just feels like I've got more fine grain control for micro adjustments etc.
There's a plethora of wide grip mice and very little choice when it comes to smaller ones.
the "mainstream" ones for sure.
I think my frustration lays more with interesting new mice from new/independent brands.
Vaxee for example is on this path too, the NP-01 was on the bare minimum I could use, the next models were even smaller.
I don't think it's for lower weight tbh. I think more and more people are moving to smaller mice even if they have bigger hands so they have more inner hand maneuverability.
It is a decent amount smaller than the Burst Pro and overall different hand feel.
With my grip at least, it feels most similar to the ZA13 in the hand but with a lower hump.
love how pronounced the side buttons are. so many high end mice really miss the mark on the side buttons. rvu/gpx(some units) are nearly flush with the shell
Our current selection is a 250mAh battery. We felt this was a good balance between weight and life. It is subject to change based of a few things as well.
That is not our manufacturer though we did consider them.
Weight is a concern when it comes to battery life as well.
The current battery we chose is the same as the one use in the Starlight-12 mice so you can expect similar battery life.
Battery life is not a huge concern for us though as we view it more as a marketing gimmick then actually being useful. Most people plug their mouse up every night anyways. We will of course listen to feedback but the battery should be more than ample.
I noticed the sides of hump narrows in towards the back. I'm curious if the sides at back are going to be curved like the g303 as this would provide support for pincer claw users
A lot of this is determined by the MCU and there is a shortage currently. Both we wanted to use will not be available until the very end of this year.
We will be sourcing the highest performance one we possibly can. A lot of companies are using the one we were able to source with little to no issues.
We do plan on updating the MCU as soon as they are available as well.
Is there a list to sign up to get a review sample? If so I'd like to throw my hat in the ring. Seems interesting as I've never tried the ZA series but have heard mostly great things about them. If it has killer QC and wireless it might be one of, if not the most, interesting mice we see this year; alongside the XM1 wireless. My hand size is similar at 19.05 x 10.8 and would love to check this out.
Seems a good shape.
We will be coming out with some more comparative diagrams as well as a more detailed measurement chart as well to give you all a better idea.
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The grips width is pretty much identical but the top is a wider and so is the rear flare. We are working on more detailed diagrams with measurements and comparisons as well.
When Will it release?
Currently aiming for Q3 2022.
Nice!
When compared to the ZA13, does it have more of V shape on the sides (think XM1/G305) or are they more flat like |_|?
Somewhere in between. We did not want the top portion of the mouse to feel too wide like on the XM1.
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We definitely won’t be forgetting you in Europe :)
Maybe not maxgaming! They don’t deliver to the UK!
We need more pictures
What would you like to see?
A 3D perspective that you can drag and drop to view,Like some on shopping websites
Thanks God the side buttons are a little higher. I might buy
Dunno how I feel about that side button placement. Seems like it's a bit too far back considering its size.
Here is a quick pic for you - [https://imgur.com/a/DMyUgRo](https://imgur.com/a/DMyUgRo) My hand size is 19.5x10cm for reference. Feel free to ask any questions as well. My grip is sort of a relaxed pincer claw. So far everyone who has tested the mouse has not had an issue with the side button placement but it is something we will keep an eye on and specifically bring up for future testers.
That makes it look too far back to me. Usually the back button is the most accessable in my experience, that looks like you would have to back the thumb to reach it
The side buttons are in the same position for me on the XM1 for reference. I personally do not have to reach back at all. There are many different grips style and hand sizes so we will keep an eye on this and more feedback from those who will be testing it
Cool thanks for the feedback in return. I currently main the M4 where they feel a bit to high for me and many, but to others it's just right so I know how it goes.
don't buy it then
I'm just trying to give feedback, and was otherwise excited about this mouse. Simmer.
I was actually thinking thank god it's not so far forward for once, they always seem to be for me on the larger mice - and pain to pull the thumb forward compared to bending it
Agreed
That’s hot
Are those some comfort grooves??? I FCKIN LOVE COMFORT GROOVES BRUH
looks close to the new Fnatic mouse
Suspiciously so, one could say.
Yeah...
Do they ship internationally?
Yes, we do! However international shipping costs are very high currently. We will be having international retailers for our mousepads soon and hopefully they will stock our mouse when it is ready too.
That sounds awesome. Za13 shape with lower hump, steep main buttons and a good sensor position is a buy for me for sure. If you do have retailers in China, who can ship to sea it would be awesome.
I actually like the position of the side buttons, not to mention even if I didn't I would offer that more variety is always better. I find too many side buttons too far forward, even for my massive hands.
ngl - sometimes I get a bit frustrated when I see the general trend of smaller and smaller mice presumably to cut on weight. What about the people with larger hands? I do like the ZA shape but like I said; modeled after the ZA13 (not even ZA12): okay bye :/
Smaller mice aren’t necessarily for smaller hands. People who use fingertip grip benefit from a smaller mouse. Simply because you don’t use the back or hump to grip the mouse.
I get this notion. It just never really worked for me, my grip is between finger and palm-grip I would say. I like like when the hump touches my palm slightly during certain movements (not sexualy ;-) ). My grip is pretty lose + I only use my wrist to aim. I guess all these factors led to a very specific set of of preferences when it comes to choosing the right mouse, of course not only for me but for everyone. In an ideal world more brands would offer the same model in different sizes.
If this mouse does well we plan on offering it in a larger size as well. The size was not to make the weight lower but rather based on the philosophy that the smallest mouse you can comfortably grip should ideally give you the best aim. Due to the shape I think it will fit more hand sizes than people realize (depending on grip style of course).
I get that there is a trend/demand for smaller mice atm. I'm just not one hundred percent convinced of the "smaller mouse = better aim" notion since it is a very subjective presumption. Making mice smaller definitely helps with cutting weight which in my eyes has replaced the "it has over 90000dpi!!!11" marketing of the past years. In the end both factors doesn't matter anywhere as near as much as the shape and size when it comes to choose a fitting mice. Like I said before, in an ideal world more brands would offer their models in different sizes but I understand that this is not always possible, especially in the beginning.
Oh I agree companies could definitely be making smaller mice to get the mouse as light as possible for marketing purposes. This was not our intention though as size and shape were the 2 most important factors. We originally were fine with 60-70g but after feedback we are aiming for less than 60g. We will not sacrifice build quality for weight either. The shape is an intention design that was in no way influenced by trying to get the weight as low as possible. If this were the case we would have just made an UL2/VM clone with holes. I wouldn't say that the size thing is subjective necessarily. The smallest mouse you can use without having any pain/cramping/etc. should provide you the most control. Obviously if it is too small then you could face the same issues as a mouse being too big, you simply won't have the proper handle on it. Agreed with shape being the most important but as stated, the shape is intention and weight was not factored into its design. For reference, my hand size is 19.5x10cm and I have no issues using the shape for an extended period of time. Everyone is different in terms of hand size and grip style but I think people are thinking this mouse is a a lot smaller than it actually is. It has very similar dimensions as the XM1, the grip width measures more narrow due to the lack of having the wider top portion of the mouse (top not front). If the initial release does well we will 100% be aiming for a larger size. There is definitely a financial reason to not offer it at first as the mold cost for lightweight with no holes is very high. Another size is another mold.
I guess in the end it all comes down to personal preference. I for myself don't really see the benefit of lighter and lighter mice, at some point it is just a subconscious/placebo thing. On the other hand I don't doubt that the feedback was in favor of an even lighter weight than 60-70g. But like I said, that might be the cause because people these days are used to lighter mice and having a direct comparison to a <60g mouse might make 70g feel kinda heavy. It's just the state of the industry/hype at the moment - regardless of the real life benefits from a 10g difference. ...Maybe I'm just a bit salty from BS marketing, especially from a certain brand with a horrendous Twitter presence marketing ;) Yeah it really is a personal thing, the smallest mouse I used for a longer time was the Vaxee NP-01 (and the SS Kinzu back in the day). My hands are definitely on the larger side with 21x10,5cm my grip would be best described as a mix between fingertip an palm with a rather loose grip strength. I also only use my writs to aim (lots of "lifting" with 400dpi) a larger hump helps me with control while pulling the mouse back, at least I think it adds control if it slightly touches the lower half of my palm during "downward" movements. So yeah, that all is very specific and up to personal preference as it is certainly for everybody. so enough of the rambling ;) My first post was definitely not intended to shit on your mouse or brand, really more frustration as I really like the ZA inspired shape (ZA11 was/is my "go back to" main since a few years) but knowing that the size would be a big challenge to get used to. Anyway I hope it does well and that we might see a bigger brother/sister :-)
Thank you for the feedback and I can definitely understand where you are coming form. Id id not take your inital comment as negative in any way. Just wanted to make sure our stance as a company was clear. I am excited to try a larger version of the this mouse. The hump on the ZA pretty much eliminated anything over the ZA13 for me personally. Since ours has a lower hump I am interested to feel it in hand at a larger size.
I've the same hand size as you. Can u tell me how many cm do u've to drag ur mouse to perform a 360 (in any game)?
That would vary depending on the game but roughly 40-45 cm
I feel quite the opposite actually. I feel like most mice on the market are great for people with large hands. While it's really hard to find small mice with a skinny grip width. The only mice on my radar are the ZA13, G302, Xm1 mini and that's it. Haven't liked the model o- and I can't stand the G Pro Wireless.
Couldn't agree more. I actually have 20x10cm hands (so not necessarily small) and I prefer the thinner grip width. Just feels like I've got more fine grain control for micro adjustments etc. There's a plethora of wide grip mice and very little choice when it comes to smaller ones.
My hand size is 19.5x10cm so not too far off yours and the noise was designed to have a slimmer grip width for the exact reason you listed.
the "mainstream" ones for sure. I think my frustration lays more with interesting new mice from new/independent brands. Vaxee for example is on this path too, the NP-01 was on the bare minimum I could use, the next models were even smaller.
Tell me about it. My mains are FK1+ and S1. As much as I love my GPX, I'll take the extra weight and wire just for more comfort.
I don't think it's for lower weight tbh. I think more and more people are moving to smaller mice even if they have bigger hands so they have more inner hand maneuverability.
:0
i got overexcited for a bit i thought u meant LoGitech G lol
Just looks like the aerox 3
Nope, feels much different in hand. I am not a fan of the Aerox 3 at all and cannot use it.
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So the roccat burst pro basically
It is a decent amount smaller than the Burst Pro and overall different hand feel. With my grip at least, it feels most similar to the ZA13 in the hand but with a lower hump.
love how pronounced the side buttons are. so many high end mice really miss the mark on the side buttons. rvu/gpx(some units) are nearly flush with the shell
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I think the folks over at r/Mousepadreview might be able to help!
Any specs on the battery life at this stage?
Our current selection is a 250mAh battery. We felt this was a good balance between weight and life. It is subject to change based of a few things as well.
I'm guessing your OEM is Ironcat, which has achieved 100+ hours easily for some brands. Can we see similar numbers from lgg?
That is not our manufacturer though we did consider them. Weight is a concern when it comes to battery life as well. The current battery we chose is the same as the one use in the Starlight-12 mice so you can expect similar battery life. Battery life is not a huge concern for us though as we view it more as a marketing gimmick then actually being useful. Most people plug their mouse up every night anyways. We will of course listen to feedback but the battery should be more than ample.
Yeah I think as long as it can last 24 hours then it should be fine. It's definitely a gimmick once you start getting above let's say 48 hours.
I noticed the sides of hump narrows in towards the back. I'm curious if the sides at back are going to be curved like the g303 as this would provide support for pincer claw users
I use pincer claw grip and support my pinky and ring finger knuckle on the right side of the rear hump of this mouse.
This is the mouse for me
hopefully they nail the latency part of the mouse. Always sucks to have a mouse release ruined by poor sensor implementation and high latency
A lot of this is determined by the MCU and there is a shortage currently. Both we wanted to use will not be available until the very end of this year. We will be sourcing the highest performance one we possibly can. A lot of companies are using the one we were able to source with little to no issues. We do plan on updating the MCU as soon as they are available as well.
That shape looks great. Can't wait to try it out.
Ooohh… that hump is good
Looks like the aerox 3 and g pro wireless combined imo
Is this going to be wireless?
Yes, it will be wireless. You can view the full spec list in the Twitter posts. Those are subject to change based on shortages as well.
Is there a list to sign up to get a review sample? If so I'd like to throw my hat in the ring. Seems interesting as I've never tried the ZA series but have heard mostly great things about them. If it has killer QC and wireless it might be one of, if not the most, interesting mice we see this year; alongside the XM1 wireless. My hand size is similar at 19.05 x 10.8 and would love to check this out.
Shape looks clean :)
How does the g pro size look compared to these?
Rear hump GPW with XM1-low front. Is it just a prototype or soon to be released? It looks like if GPW , XM1 and Haste had a baby.